Harley M8 vs Twin Cam Series | Which Is Better | Part 1 - Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Performance
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Harley M8 vs Twin Cam. Which is better? Is the Twin Cam Harley better than Milwaukee 8? Or is the Harley Milwaukee 8 better than the Twin Cam? This video is part 1 of a series focusing on 2 Skunkworks complete custom engine builds. A Harley M8 124 vs a Twin Cam 107. Learn what you should do to improved your changes of building a successful Harley Performance engine.
View the Engine Blueprinting Video here: • Harley Engine Rebuild ...
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/ @kevinbaxter
Pro Twin Performance and Baxter's Garage
723 W Winder Industrial Pkwy
Winder, GA 30680
(678) 226-9651
00:00 Introduction
01:05 Announcements
01:57 Twin Cam Variations
04:31 Milwaukee 8 Variations
06:17 Build Details
07:38 Closer Look at the Parts
09:30 Main Focus and Summary
11:10 Closing - Авто та транспорт
There will be several videos coming after this one...after crank upgrades, timken bearing conversion, then to cylinders, pistons, heads, etc. The full assembly will be recorded in the series then...tuning and suspension work. Thanks for watching!
Personally I'd want all the upgrades motor internals even if I didn't have all the extra horsepower us electricians tend to overbuild !!
Not a bad trait to have sir ;)
I know 2 guys that bought the M8 , both blew up within 20000 kms , no thanks I'll keep my 96 twincam
man. I wish I knew what you were talking about
Bahahaha I was thinking the same thing 🤯🤣
At least your honest. That's the most honest comment ive seen on UA-cam in a long time lol 😂. Most people are experts in the comment section. Respect to you man 👍
Some of us are not smart enough to talk to Kevin. He knows stuff
UA-cam is free, go learn about it
I appreciate the performance gains in the new harley engines but personally for me a Evo cant be beat in a sense of just wanting it to start and go and have minimal issues. When I want to ride i just want to get on and go and that's usually everyday so reliability is everything while performance isnt as much.
This is so cool to see a step by step build on my own bike ! Thanks Kevin ! All the knowledge that is in that head of yours is going to pay dividends for me in the future. Thanks again for all the help !
Thank you for trusting us to do the build. We continue to get more parts in. I'll probably go ahead and install the suspension components this coming week along with Darrell's 07 at the same time. I have already installed your DD7 Transmission. I had an opportunity to do that a couple nights ago and was so focused on getting it done, i didnt have a chance to video HOWEVER, I will show a stock trans VS a DD7 in a video so you can see. Glad youre enjoying it.
I have more knowledge of my M8 114 then when I bought it. Thank you for taking the time to teaches more about our bikes.
Looking forward to watching the rest of the series on this. Thanks Kevin.👌👍
Excellent. Thank you sir! Glad youre enjoying it so far.
Your channel is awesome, Kevin! Very informative. I was the guy that said he’d never own a Harley. Well I just bought a 2020 Fat Bob 114 with 1,167 miles on it and I love it. I plan to take it to Stage II and stop there. The SE tuner and cam kit is on order. I want a reliable bike. I hope I get that with my M8.
Thanks for all the great videos Kevin, very informative! Been riding my 2017 SGS FOR almost 40K miles with no issues other than the oil leak and clutch recall which my local HD dealership took care early on. Been running just a stage one. Running stock head pipe with no cat, high flow and FP3 with RCX 4” slip ons. Would love the motor to be louder but hope by keeping it mostly stock I’ll have longevity. Love the long trips we take!
thanks for the comment charles! best of luck sir.
Great video Kevin, with great info. Thanks for taking the time to share. Cheers
Glad you enjoyed it. Youre welcome and thank you...i appreciate the kind words.
If I ever get a new bike again, I'm just going to leave it alone and ride the thing. They're engineered the way they are for a reason. Plus they last longer that way. Great video with lots of info.
Right on. Thank you.
For me personally the twin cam 103 was too damn hot to leave stock. I remember one of my first rides in stop and go traffic, I was sticking my right leg out, and thinking I'm going to have to drop this soon. My 2018 Road Glide Ultra, I added heated grips, Sirius/XM module, Hammock seat with backrest, at my age I need the backrest, and that's it. I find it much cooler and therefore more pleasant to ride, especially in the heat. In fact that was the primary reason I traded in my twin cooled 103 Ultra Limited.
I picked up Most of what You laid down!! Very Informative!!
That's what I've always done. I rode a 2002 dyna wide glide with carbed twin cam 88 for 15 years. It had a upgraded breather, exhaust, and carb jets. Other than that...a typical stage 1....i left it alone. It always cranked up on the first hit and went anywhere I asked it to go. Never let me down in 15 years. Changed the oil , brake pads, and tires once a year and rode it. Fantastic machine.
Except for the fact they don't last if you leave them alone because they're junk right from the factory.
His punctuation reminds. Me of William. Shatner when he randomly. Pauses in the middle. Of a sentence.
Just bugging Informative though lots of.good info
😂 the captain is awesome. LOL
Got a Evo thats over 25 years old and it runs like swiss watch, not one problem .will never trade for twincam or m8
Ok boomer
@@Brian-zg9ff And at what point does a good riding machine needs an OK boomer comment?? OK lost generation!
@@bobkinney2430 😂
EVO, the only engine that was a bit reliable.
Straightforward advice that we need to be reminded of before building. Thanks man I’m not skimping. Now
The only skimping would be to leave it stock and treat it well.
Always looking forward to your videos. Thank you! I appreciate the knowlege you share.
I appreciate that!
Another great video thank you! Would like to say that I did my first repair on my twin cam 88. Still waiting for my shop manual, I got a Haynes manual that gave me enough information to change the seals on my primary, and check the chain tension. The primary was leaking really bad, not sure how well my job is but it’s not leaking yet.
Congrats Donald! Good for you man. Take your time, pay attention, and read. Now grab a beverage and pat yourself on the back. Right on...
Just stumbled upon your channel, I’m looking at buying a 2013 softail slim with the 103. Great info and u have another subscriber
Wow, that first six minutes reminded me of my first day in algebra class. Love your channel.
LOL...me too. Thanks for watching and sub sir!
twin cam hands down
Great "writeup". Thanks Kevin for making this, look forward to seeing more of the series.
Thank you very much Mark, I appreciate it. How are you and yours doing these days up there?. Glad you enjoyed it.
@@KevinBaxter things are good over here, thanks for asking Kevin. I hope you're doing well, too. Yes, your vid (as usual) is very enjoyable AND informative. Rarity these days, I must say.
Excellent bud. All is well. Your kind words are appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks Kevin, been watching your videos for a while and almost caught up to all the ones from the past too. I am sending you an email about my newly required TC build.
That's awesome Chris. Hope if youre watching on your phone, its on wifi. That'd be one helluva data plan bill. LOL. Thanks for watching. Look forward to hearing from you.
Great info, thanks for all the knowledge 👍👍🍺
Youre welcome sir. Thanks again for following.
I have a 107 M8, limited
I only used a new 107 cam, but cam plate, lifters,pump,etc are all S&S , This with stock pipes,gives me peace of mind, with factory tuning,i was not chasing,more power,but reliability
I traded in my 2014 Ultra Limited on a 2018 Road Glide Ultra after renting and riding one on Oahu. First thing I noticed was that even in traffic, the stock M8 engine felt cooler to me than my Ultra Limited which had the catalytic convertor removed, ceramic coated headers and Power Commander installed, and was dyno tuned. I also traded in because I discovered on that ride that I prefer the Road Glide.
All good reasons. Glad you found a bike you really like. Thanks.
Excellent vid Kevin. Thanks
Very welcome. Thank you Marcel!
I am the same way when ever I work or modify a anything. Do it right the first time.
Amazing and valueabl information being shared... Thumbs Up N Thank you :-)
Thanks for liking.
I have experience several of those problems mentioned at 9:36 but I bought my 17 SGS right when they first came out. Spent a lot of time in and out of the shop. None of my HOG buddies who bought 2018 and up bikes with M8s have had any issues but they are riding stock with a few just upgrading to Stage 1 and slip ons. I recently upgraded to the HD Screaming Eagle 128 due to they had to disassemble by bike to find a sumping issue and suggested to go with the 128 since they had it disassembled. Since I was covered under the Extended Service Plan, I was able to do the upgrade for 1/4 of the cost. I am still carrying my ESP and have 30K more or till 2022 before it runs out. I am aware that some folks reporting issues with the Stage 3 & 4 kits before the big bore 128/131 were released. I will run it until such time and make a decision to sell or keep the bike. If I was going to upgrade my engine and not concerned with 2 yr warranty or ESP, I would definitely take it Kevin and let his shop do the service upgrade using the recommended parts he suggests.
*** I will state however my bike is running the HD Pro Street Tuner and Smart Auto Tuners. It wasn't dyno'd after the build. I rode it in all types of riding conditions up to 1,700 miles and went back to have the data from the Smart Auto Tuner dumped into the ECM and man did it wake that engine up!!! Totally different engine performance from before to after. It's still governed at 110 mph but I have no desire to go past that speed on a motorcycle but I can get to 110 really quick now and it's a whole lotta fun doing it.
Glad it worked out for you. A word of caution....be aware of any noise that occurs at cold start and gets quieter as the engine heats up at idle. Also...a rattle that occurs under acceleration when hot. Both are an indication of a cracked cyl sleeve. Many will tell you "thats normal". It may be "normal", but when it breaks, it'll destroy your engine. The next video in this series, will cover this very topic.
Looking forward to this series, thanks for sharing your expertise with us. I learn new things every day! I really enjoyed your vid with the superbike racer. Again, thanks, and when i need parts or if friends do I will send them your way.
Awesome, thank you very much. Walt is a good fella for sure. I appreciate you doing so!.
I am slowly assembling some upgrades for my 2011 FLSTFB. I’ll be contacting you for timken conversion and a dark horse crank install in my stock cases. This will be a very informative series.
Please do! Thank you Don. The very first time i cracked an M8 openin 2017, my thought was....it's a twin cam....minus one cam plus 2 valves and thats it....meaning the same stuff needs to be done to protect the monster. LOL
Good solid information .
excellent information!
Glad it was helpful! Thank you Bruce! Appreciate you very much!
Awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Didn't know they both were same stroke. Thought the m8 was a longer stroke. Looking forward to next video.
Yes sir they are. There will be many other things along the way, that arent that much different. Glad youre enjoying it. Next week, I'll be editing the footage of the tear down of your engine and put that up next weekend hopefully. Next step, suspension of both yours and Freds at the same time so folks can compare that.
Good video Mr Baxter 👍
Thank you kindly
Very informative
Thank you very much. The next video will be on comparing cylinders...and it's gonna be a cool one.
Nice to listen to someone who knows what there talking about. Great vidios.
I appreciate that!
Awesome video.
Glad you enjoyed it. thank you.
Im sticking with my 103, Streetglide, D&D Fat Cat full exhaust, SMT Wheels with PM Alluminum pully for weight savings, Legend Revo 13 inch shocks which were lighter as well, Chassis Support bracket and lower fairings and klockworks windshield my bike is so stable and flys on the highway. Forget the gas guzzling motors, learn to ride and get some good safty gear.
My 103 runs like a champ 😊
Good info
Thank you very much sir. Wait until you see the next one on cylinders....it'll be an eye opener.
I want to upgrade my camchain tensioners on my 01 RG . I have to change cam plate and cams what are the best parts for upgrading . Also might want to go with bigger cam.
If I bring a bike down there to have an engine built could I convince you to put the first 500 miles on it for break in? Not sure I have the self control to go easy on the twisty grip.
Boy I learned the hard way to build to much horsepower in a stock 2000 heritage softail. Spun my balance sprocket in 8000 miles and developed a sudden vibration. Darkhorse was my solution to this now I have plenty of strength but struggling trying to figure out where to set the dynatech 2000 ignition control module to achieve maximum power and mileage.
Why does SE have a 131 but all the after market companies have 128's? Is the bore bigger on the 131 or does that kit come with a longer crank?
I am new to HD and just bought a 2019 FLHR. Are there any major issues with the stock M8? I will not be modifying it.
The twin cam is obviously the best for the following reason, I own one. If I owned a M8 then they would be the best.
Yeah I'm more confused about what cam to look at might just end up getting a tuner and different slipons call it a day
I own a wonderful 74 cid shovel. The 74 CIDs were made from 1936 to 1978. You know why it lasted so long ? It was a winning combination and Harley was not manufacturing Yamaha Road Star clones.
Good lord! How in the heck do you remember all that?! Haha Much respect! I have a 96. Just stage 1. Was thinking of doing a stage 2 however really thinking of making it a 110. Is it much cheaper to make it a 103 vs 110?
What I get from all this is that if I keep my 114 M8 stock, do my maintenance on time, and don't abuse it I should have a fairly reliable engine. Since I have enough power for my style of riding I see no need to go for more power until I wear this one out.
Same for my 88. Got some mean pipes on there and that’s plenty enough for the cruisin’ that I do.
Does the 2008 Softail deluxe have a M8 motor? How many miles are they good for?
103 for me. The M8 is the more powerful engine but reliability of the 103 wins for me.
BUT. I‘d trust my EVO before any bike I’ve ever had.
Whew!.... that’s a lot of numbers 😂
🤣🤣🤣
I will keep my TC , had a set of Feuling 4 valve heads on my EVO Tour Glide when they came out , that was a waste of a big chunk of fun chips
The TC really is a good engine provided they are built right. On an EVO...those were too much head. But....on a twin cam....on the few i built anyway....OH MAN. Stupid fast.
@@KevinBaxter so someone is producing 4 valve TC heads ?
I was involved with developing a 4 V twin cam head around 2004/5. It was a variation of the Feuling 4V for evo. We built a handful of those...and they made INCREDIBLE power. 170HP give or take on 117s, small cams, low compression. It was crazy....but expensive. Noone wanted to pay $3000 for a set of heads back then. I could revive the program but, it would take a lot of money to do it.
@@KevinBaxter I think IIRC I paid about $3700 for the EVO heads , was stoopid money ...
Yep...i remember...they were like 3500 bucks or close to it. Were just not right for EVO, now Twin Cam.....oh yeah.
kevin - any tips / easy way to check and identify issues like sumping or blow by, etc in the m8?
cyl pressure and leak down test. pull the crank sensor...hopefully none comes out. do this after a 1 hour ride above 2500 rpm.
@@KevinBaxter do you think this is something the dealership would offer?
Thanks great video let me start off by saying I am harder than all the way also have new 15 Honda Valkyrie watercool horsepower virtually no maintenance sometimes I wonder??
That's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors ya know? I hear ya...comes down to what we like and choices.
I do have a FLXRS 117 MY22 ... on stage 1 .... I hope it last long.. do you think that this is a reliable engine?
Good Morning to everyone! Good day here in Va. and Tenn. for a little ride. In regards to GOOD quality parts and labor, I would like to share an old statement I came by many many years ago.
"If you're looking for good quality oats, they can be had at a higher, but reasonable cost. However, if you desire less quality oats, they can be purchased at a lesser cost after they have been thru the horse; however, we don't sell or produce them here.
This is in memory of a dear friend and associate, Mr. Steffey, who passed away several years ago. He had this statement posted in his shop. In all the years that I subbed mechanical work to his shop, not once did I ever have a need to return work for any reason. This is a goal that I wake up to every day.
Great and funny comment my friend! LOL. Hope you are well sir.
Hope you are well too my friend!
How you did that without cracking up is beyond me
Hi, I joined and have watched tear downs etc I admire your talents and knowledge. I have a 103 ho on a 2015 ultra limited with stage one as far as I know. I'm satisfied with performance etc. I just bought it 3 months ago and previous owner kept this bike very clean and I do the same. I watched oil level after I bought it for 3000 and didn't use a drop of oil. I changed it and trans and primary at 26000 miles using harley fluids, oil. Are these 103 ho good motors. And in your opinion maintained right what mileage expedancy could I get. Thanks so much.
I have a 2015 road glide same motor the high output 103 supposed to be the best of the twin cams from what I hear
Great video kevin👍🏼I have a tc88 A which is still on the original bore at 175000km (Australia).I had the se billet camplate upgrade done at 65000km. For a while now I have noticed oil consumption has increased a little and the rear cylinder sparkplug smells of burnt oil.Im happy enough with the power it produces.If I were to bump up compression with say wiseco 88 pistons im not sure if my bottom end would handle it . Also is there anyway of telling if my flywheels have shifted on the pin without complete disassembly. It still seems to run pretty smooth and regular services have always been maintained. Keep up the great content Kev cheers🙂
Hey Garry. Thanks! Man that's tough. The ring seal surely wont get any better with time.Not sure what year your 88 is...the cranks up to 02 were great. the rest were pretty good too. I wouldnt suggest building a hot rod on top of it, but it wouldnt hurt to pull the cylinders. Feel for smooth rotation, then vertical play, then axial (side to side) play. Then check run out on both sides of the flywheel. all that can be done with wheels still in the case. If it feels smooth, no noise, minimal play, maybe just go .10 over with a new set of pistons and bore/hone the cylinders. Keep compression at 9.5 or less, and roll with it.
Thanks heaps Kevin for your prompt reply🙂my fxdwg is a 2001model manufacture date of 9/2000 so it might be ok 👍🏻 I’ve revved it out a few times but it’s never been drag raced or anything. Anyway I’ll definitely take your advice on board and I’ll try and find someone who will work with me on this minimalist approach as I want to preserve its originality as long as possible. Thanks again Kev 🙂
Where do you live in OZ? East near Syd or Brisbane or on the west coast?
Live on the north west coast of Tasmania, the most southern island state in a town called Ulverstone.
Ah ok. Cant help you there. All the people I know are on the other side. Thanks again.
I imagine the cost in all the upgraded parts and labour would be at least 35% of the total cost of the purchase price of the bike originally.
Nice if you can afford to blow that amount of cash for the fun factor.
One good thing is that the US has less speed cameras than the U.K. or Europe.
Sweet series first to comment
Got em this time Chris! LOL. Awesome. Thanks man.
After doing a lot of research, I know all the parts that I'm after, except one critical one.
A compensator upgrade.
I cannot seem to find a compensator that fits the FLFBS 2018+ Fat Boy. Baker and Dark Horse both make comps for the new softail but both say their comp DOES NOT work with the 240mm rear tire softails.
Where do I look for a comp upgrade then?
It's the last piece of the puzzle I want for a stage 2 build.
At this point, I'm not aware of any options you have other than stock. If you can shoot me an email, I'll see what I can do. It's not unusual for us to make things like this happen.
There’s a Quiz of what you just viewed, So get ready 🤪🔨
It will be distributed at the close of the series. LOL.
Hey Kevin, I have a question for you...Have you ever heard of M-8 Compression Releases going bad? I started having trouble with mine shortly after purchase. I didn't think anything of it. It still cranked over ok with some hesitation with the stock 114 inch engine. Then when I installed the Big Bore Kit & Cam, Cranking problems were Intermittent. The pistons would come to a dead stop upon cranking. Then I'd try a couple more times and it would work. I thought it was the T-Max ECU not instructing the Compression Releases to open. Then it got progressively worse until it wouldn't crank at all. That's when I decided to check the Compression Releases. Sure enough, BOTH Compression Releases didn't work !! And the Bike only has 11,000 miles on it. What are the odds that both of them would go out so soon. So it looks like I'll have to keep spare Compression Releases on hand at all times.
not common id say that ive seen....but....entirely possible.
Sorry but I am confused, which one to buy????
👍👍
Hi Kevin. Does changing stock cams to S&S 465, adjustable push rods, new lifters in an M8 107 engine end get it DYNO tuned put extra stress on the engine? Or is it a safe modification?
totally safe modification. depends on the dyno operator. with todays technology, dynos arent really required. TUNING is, but tuning doesnt have to physically be done on a dyno. ive seen people BEAT THE HELL out of a bike on a dyno....simply not necessary.
@@KevinBaxter Thank you Kevin. So after the Cam is done, I can simply buy Vance and Hinse FP3 and I can tune myself. Would this be a much better option than a Dyno? Or take it to Harley Dealer and get it tuned by Screaming Eagle tuner?
That wouldnt be the product i would choose. I set people up with Power Vision and a Target tune system, install a base map, ship it to you, and from there you can install your bike and tune with minor mods. Dyno not required and youll have full wide band tuning/auto tuning etc. The SE tuner will not allow full tuning....DONT go that route. The FP3 will work "ok" if that's all your budget will allow...but its not full tuning.
@@cinargey6873 listen to Kevin... go with the power vision.. Best 400 you'll ever spend.
I just set my buddies 05 softail up. He was running s and s cams with a cleaner and exhaust. He was fouling plugs and the motor was pinging. I can't believe a shop did all that work for him without a tune. He said it wasn't even mentioned to him.
After i set it up he road the bike a few miles, thought he had a brand new bike.
The FP3 and power commander just trick your ecm and will eventually cause problems down the road.
The power vision gives you complete control over your ECM. I had a touring bike that i was able to set the tune to give me best mpg in 6th gear. Gave me an extra 50 miles a tank... great for making jersey to Cabo in least amount of time.
If your a data nerd you can set your power vision on the handle bar and see all the data.
The biggest improvement in M-8s over Twin Cams is the 8.0in.Rod.....improved rod/stroke ratio
The TC88 crank has a better rod/stroke ratio then the Pan, Shovel, EVO,TC4.375s,M-8
What about improving the 107 without increasing cubic inches? That is what I am interested in. Making it more reliable and efficient. What needs to be improved?
We will cover much of that along the way. Tuning, cam plates, oil pumps, lifters, motor sprocket, etc...
Kevin Baxter Thanks.
@@KevinBaxter Oh, good! I'll be looking forward to that. As much as I would like to have a little more bottom end power, I'd absolutely hate to lose tank range by decreased fuel efficiency.
I have a 2008 Road King Classic
96 ci motor with super tuner and screaming Eagles slip ons.
Is there anything in particular that I should pay attention to?
If you arent having any issues by now, youre probably good to go. The most common issues around that year, were compensators, cranks with excessive runout, main drive gear bearings in the trans due to the auto primary tensioner being too tight. No need to panic...not everyone had those issues, but it happened.
Kevin Baxter
Thank you for that quick reply!!👍
I do regular maintenance and don’t stress the bike.
Look into the baker attitude adjuster. Harleys auto tensioner pulls the primary chain way too tight causing problems downs the road.
I’m getting old I guess. I really don’t care to go much over 65 mph these days. And I pretty much like doing that when I’m going up hill. Got some d and d 2 to 1 on an 88 and it all just sounds awesome as fuk when I roll on that throttle. And even better when I roll off between gears. My world is complete.
On a limited budget and if it was the last bike you’ll ever buy, which parts would you say should be upgraded on the Milwaukee 8? I have a 2018 Ultra Limited Low, built around April of 2018, and I’m 69 and the bike fits me perfectly so I have no intention of selling it or trading up. I’m wondering if it’s better to just wait until something and then upgrade or upgrade before it happens.
well, id want to cool it down and ensure proper oil flow. So i would change pipes, high flow air cleaner, and tune it properly. Then, cam plate, oil pump, inner cam bearing. From there, its more about performance gains. Great question sir.
Kevin Baxter thank you so much for your timely response. I wasn’t sure how far I should upgrade before I’d get diminishing returns. I am going to start the process one step at a time or just get a rough idea on the cost to have you do it all at once. Hopefully we can have the luxury of your knowledge available for years to come. You’re a great asset to the motorcycle community. Thank YOU sir!
Got a 2006 Heritage. I’m good 😊
To this day, I still say 2006 was the best year for the "modern" harley. Truth is, I have done far less mechanical repairs on 2006 models specifically, than any other year....aside from the spring tensioner issue anyway.
mine did too.
Kevin Baxter so great to hear this 😄 😄 😄
How do we join membership. I can not seem to get back to that page?
Right here. Thank you very much! ua-cam.com/channels/8vzPlQOWP9csxUOoyC9Mtw.htmljoin
Hey Kevin I'm curious do people swap entire motors for example if you have a 99 road king is it common to swap out for a newer water cooled higher horse power motor not sure if that's even possible ?
Sure people swap engines. Anything can be done BUT....at a cost. Mostly, any touring 06 and back engine will bolt right in for you. Going later, not really possible without A LOT of other things.
@@KevinBaxter thanks for the reply kevin your vids are really informative I seriously doubt I'll be swapping motors in the king but if I do I know where I'll have one built !!
thank you sir.
I've had all three, a 98 Evo, three twin cams (04, 07,11) and now a 2019 M8 / 114. All bone stock. There is no comparison. I love my old bikes, but I wouldn't trade my 19 for any of them. Not in today's world. If you like riding in the left lane in 2020, then you had better have, or get, some power underneath you. 85mph used to be passing speeds. Today, its becoming right lane speed. Especially in the bigger cities.
Its a toss up for me. Each having their pros and cons. When the shovel came out, people with pans hated them. When the evo came out, people with shovels hated them. When the TC came out, people with Evos hated them. Each are unique. What gets me about an evo, often I'm amazed at just how bad one of those can be, and still run. Quite a thing. Thanks for the comment!
Would you say putting a stage 3 on a factory 114 is ok?
done proper, yes...should be just fine.
what can I do to my 2013, 103 motor to operate cooler in stop and go traffic.
definitely a fan assisted oil cooler provided all else is well with the bike. these have never failed me protwin.com/fan-assistedlowmount10-rowoilcoolersystem.aspx
Just my thoughts. Almost always, the 1st generation engines have bugs or issues. It's been that way with Harley for a long time. Look at the 1st generation twin cam for example. In its 1st generation, you could argue it was better than the last gen evo, but it had issues with scizoring cranks and it had cam chain tensioner issues, which the plastic foot would disintegrate, causing plastic to lodge in the oil pump, grenading the engine. Because of these issues, you could say the last gen evo was a much better engine than the 1st gen twin cam. It no different now. I mean the m8 is obviously newer, and probably more capable, but it's a 1st gen engine. I don't think it's as good or refined, as last generation twin cam . In the next 5 or 6 years, well see a second, and a third generation of the m8, and that will be the better engine. Never buy 1st gen I promise. I mean it's a gamble. Just my opinion here. To me the better engine, is the one you can trust. I owned a softail slim 103, it was a great bike. I could have got the m8. I don't regret my purchase. I sold it and bought a buell xb12s. Its amazing, best bike I've ever owned, and it's got the final generation of evo sportster engines with lots of refinement from Eric buell. You cant go wrong with an older engine that is its last generation platform.
I agree completely....thanks for the comment. I hear ya!
Do one on the most reliable engine. I ride LONG miles n fast is smooth n smooth is fast enough.
That's exactly what these are. Our Skunkworks engines are purpose built, specifically for the owner, and maximize performance without compromising reliability. That's our main focus...not peak dyno numbers.
Songs white smart man
dude we need a math degree to keep up with all the numbers on your video!! Great work !!
Kevin! Take my money!
Lets do it! What rocket are we building?? LOL
@@KevinBaxter I'll be picking up a twin cam and another sporty in the fall to build. I'll be in touch!
I look forward to it. Thank you.
Ummm🧐 so wich ones better M8 or TWIN CAM
After 30 years on Harley’s I’ve come to realize that they’ve been forced to change Because of the market but there is no excuse for getting rid of the 5 piece bulletproof crank. The crank in the Evo was great and the rest of it in stock form was a weak piece of shit. Having said that, I hated the TC due to heat issues and the weak crank. The M8 is fantastic but once again the crank is shit. Want big power? Get a Darkhorse Crank and go from there. The 4 valve head flows great and 150 hp and tq with just a cam and bore/intake upgrade is nothing and zero reliability issues. 240 hp with a little head massage from Branch/Okeefe is easily done with the aforementioned mods but everything hinges on the crank.
So many digits ;-). But excellent as usual. Pro.
Thank you! Cheers!
Nobody is complaining about the motor's . Its the death of the dyna frame
Well, what I want to know, is the m8 a reliable engine in its stock form. I have never owned nor ridden a Harley. I currently have an Indian chieftain and I love it. I am considering getting a soft tail slim because I love the look and it's a lot lighter than my chieftain, getting older and want a lighter bike.
As a general rule, yes, its a good reliable engine. I would avoid a 2017 and early 2018 however.
@@KevinBaxter thank you.
@@KevinBaxter I ride a 2017, can you please say what I'd have to look out for?
Bore to 98" or use s&s 100"? Cam is 26g Andrew's
I prefer to go no bigger than 98...with either bore/hone of stock cyl or replacement cylinder. That's a good cam if its specifically for you. I've used those several times with good results...for the right rider and bike. Youve probably seen the cam spec videos....
The M8 is a victory motor in disguise .
M8 all the way
My buddy’s 2012 street glide lost compression in the rear cylinder. It wouldn’t fire at all. We pulled the head and found a gap in the exhaust valve where we could see daylight. May have stuck the piston but hard to tell for sure. Any ideas on the cause.
I’m trying to talk him into getting parts from you, but he’s hard core harley. So we’ll see.
The rear head is the hottest...especially the exhaust valve. Much has to do with a proper tune or poor quality oils. Over time, heat can cause oil varnish to build up in the valve guide causing them to stick. I've had some so bad I had to beat the valves out with a hammer. You probably noticed a gold discoloration under the valve springs as well. This is one of the reasons we use the type of valve guide we do, and why our valves are coated. Greatly reduces the possibility of this happening. I'll assume this is a stock head.... If i get food poisoning from a restaurant after eating dinner, I dont go back for breakfast. Food for thought.... :)
Kevin Baxter
Thanks Kevin. If it where me I’d get parts from you, I’ll work on him. Would that bad valve cause it not to fire at all? Even on the front cylinder?
Kevin Baxter
And yes it’s stock. 20,000 miles. Regular service. He uses Klotz oil. I’m not a fan. I use Amsoil.
I'll answer your question....but....this is the reason your buddy should consider where he's buying his parts....i doubt hed get this answer from well, you know. Grab a beer.... lol The way the EFI system works on an HD....the crank sensor reads the notches on the crank. It determins engine RPM and top dead center but it doesnt know what phase of TDC the engine is on. How the ECM knows if its on TDC of compression stroke vs exhaust stroke is it's ability to measure how the crank slows down during the compression stroke of the rear cylinder. If the crank isnt slowing down because of lack of cylinder pressure....stuck valve.....it doesnt know to fire the spark plug or the injectors because it cant determine TDC of the compression stroke. Hince...the front cylinder wont fire either. Now.....if the stuck valve was on the front only, the engine would run on one cylinder....the rear. Whew.
That was great !!! The best one yet to make my mind up for me. I have an 2009 96 cu. In. Cross Bone. I am try to make this the bike of my dreams. It is my forever bike. Even if i buy a new bike latter. This bike gets built first. I will call U next weak & give the secretary my want list in the order of the build then U can mail me a written eastament for each step untill i get the bike done. I want a balend blue print 107 cu. In. When it is done. Ur fucher customer. Charlie Wright. Thank U sir !!!!! U are a life saver. I go right by Ur shop everytime i go home to Asheville, NC.
Excellent Charlie. You see my point. The M8 isnt some vastly improved technological marvel. If you have a good twin cam, keep it. Youre welcome...and thank you! I look forward to working with you.
What's better, evolution
Hard to beat an Evo for sure.
The answer is easy: S & S EVO!!!
I'll keep my Evo
Evos are pretty awesome...no doubt.
Test rode an EVO Road King years ago after owning a Shovelhead and a TC88. I really wanted to like the EVO, given all the advantages that it's supposed to have. Bottom line, just could live with the low power. Snagged an M8 3 years ago, no comparison. Stage 1 installed and I don't plan to do anything else.
Aaaaaaah... I’m happy with my evo. Lol!
I like mine too. LOL.
Evo is the only reason I love my Harley. Want something with power? Don’t get a Harley.
WHAT?????, I WANNA GO BIGGER SIR!!🤪🤪🤪🤪
Twin Cam 103 hands down. Had an Evo....too much vibration.....M8...Doesn't sound like a Harley.
is the screaming eagle 103 any different than the standard 103
Not in bore or stroke. The cam is different along with the heads and compression ratio.
Yes they were different. Not sure how they did it.