Well done Alan, James and Martin for constantly producing top class content. This is a great podcast and really elevates the discourse around all things Celtic.
James - I sincerely hope you don't let the idiots bring you down. There are plenty of other Celtic podcasts out there that in effect act as cheerleaders for the club and take any constructive criticism of Celtic as a direct attack and/or as an admission of treachery. The insight Alan and James have provided over the years is absolutely invaluable and has added an immeasurable amount of quality to Celtic related discourse. Ultimately we all want Celtic to be the best they can be, it's just the way of getting there where opinions differ - and that's fine. I often think people rebel so strongly against the use of analytics in football because they intuitively understand that it exposes their understanding of football to scrutiny and challenge. Pub chat, fuelled by drink, passion and bluster has its place, but it also has obvious limitations. The fact that there is a space for reasoned and thoughtful debate on football/Celtic here on the Huddle Breakdown is magic and long may it continue.
The Huddle podcast with James and Alan is by far the most interesting , sophisticated and informative than the usual dross in you tube , particularly other podcasts available . Keep up the good work it’s brilliant. 👍👍👍🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪🤩
@@otisbdriftwood6520 And the answer as to how to best to describe 99% of all the other Celtic podcasts as ''fanzines'' is for me the best description yet & for sure, I loved my written & buy in the shop or outside Celtic Park on match day, Celtic fanzines of the 1980s & 1990s & long before the world wide web & Twitter, Twotter, Twat got a vice like grip on most people & often Celtic ''fanzines'' of the podcast variety can be very fine & dandy, but the clear & present danger for ALL of them & most sadly fail to avoid the danger of merely becoming one dimensional & of the much favoured ''back Brendan, there's all that money just sitting there in the bank doing nothing, Sack the Board'' one dimensional variety...
This pod is about how Celtic can improve, against our rivals domestically and more importantly, in Europe... The tools these guys use are akin to the strategies deployed by Brighton FC and who can deny their resilience / progress in one of the worlds most difficult leagues. Keep up the great work!.
Note to JucoJames - UA-cam, Facebook and X have a wonderful potential to link people up to talk about things that interest us. We can debate, critique and educate on the subject. Unfortunately, too many people simply lash out when they hear things that they don’t like. They’re the very same people who turn on the players when things get tough. Best to ignore them. More importantly, there are literally thousands of people who listen in and appreciate the hard work that you clearly put into the content and, long may that continue. Anyway, the new format is FAB and, anything that gives us double bubble of the delightful Alan Morrison is a sure winner.
Love the new format and getting more from you over each week. Love this and it is the go to Celtic Channel. I appreciate the objective viewpoints and not the rantings of what is thought - prefer what actually happened. Keep up the great work guys and gals.
Apparently SEVCO have complained to the SPFL because after the game on Sunday, when they got back to their bus, Maeda was already in Tavernier's seat. 😁
Thanks guys. I look forward to your analysis at every podcast. Great insights into your background and also the perspective from the someone at the game. I watched the game both at the time and after. I value your insights.
I love watching us beat our rivals and I know you guys do too. I learn so much from this podcast about what we need to guard against and what we can build on. Sorry you’ve been getting abuse, what’s that old saying….never debate with eejits, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with their experience.😂
😂🤣😂 There's a reason that you're one of my favourites Laura. If I wanted smoke blown up my erse, I'd be a SEVCO supporter. I need stats and unbiased overviews to balance the eye, especially as that tends to follow the ball!
At 2-0 both Desserts and Soutar had clear chances. We slackened off too much after half-time and we won't get away with that in champions league. Rangers are depressed not just because of the derby game but because they know their squad is depleted and low on quality and they now accept their football trading model is a failure. it's more what will lie in store for them that depresses them rather than a pumping at Celtic Park.
We were just as bad, if not worse, in the early 1990s pre Fergus McCann & his £9 million saving us from bankruptcy & of course back then, the world wide web, Twitter, You Tube & all the rest just simply didn't exist, as well as you have to be almost at least 50 years of age to have ANY kind of adult memories of just how bad it was for us back then, but it's now 2024 & the world has been in the vice like grip of the world wide web, You Tube, Twitter, Twotter, Twat, for many, many, years & where the all pervasive attitude is me, me, me, now, now, now & where EVERYTHING is either euphoric bliss or absolute catastrophic disaster, but if you live in the real world, it's never ever that good & the bad times never ever last forever either....
As always, appreciate the content and insights folks. I, fortunately, wasn’t aware of the abuse you’d been getting. For the many of us who do enjoy your content, it’s the insights and different perspectives that make THB unique in this space. Keeping doing what you doing 💪
Thanks Jack. Those that don't enjoy the nerdiness (the majority) - it's fine and expected. Why the need to wait for the chance to dole our personal abuse is bewildering from fellow Celtic fans. Don't like it, ignore it, simple.
I think the rangers' fans frustrations with Tavernier are based on two main aspects. 1. Brendan Rodgers record vs them is PLD19 W15 D3 L1 Aside from BR, the common denominator in that run of results is TavPen. He's been the one constant at rangers throughout that period. 2. He's just not a very good defender. When all is said and done, a defenders main role is to defend. Having a good creative output from RB is a bonus BUT it's only a bonus if the RB in question isn't constantly giving away goals at the other end. TavPen has been directly or indirectly responsible for over a dozen Celtic goals. He is a statistical juggernaut vs the rest of the SPFL but against Celtic (for all his attacking threat) he is a nett liability overall and for most rangers fans, it really does boil down to what you do vs Celtic. I agree that rangers would likely be weaker overall (in terms of the full 38 league games) if he wasn't there but against Celtic specifically, I think he's more of a hindrance than a help vs Celtic. It's a weird paradox to be in as a Celtic fan because he's not a player who concerns me when we play BUT I would still be happy to see the back of him because of what he brings to them vs all the other teams
Hi - Exactly, Id be delighted if the hounded out Tavernier and Dessers not because they hurt Celtic but because they get them out of scrapes vs the rest
@@Pete-ou9kj His record against Celtic, even goals and assists, is very average and well below his average vs other teams. 6 gls and 6 assists in 38 matches. The point is his record vs the rest of the league helps hugely being what Dave King called "solid second". Remove those and they have an even greater creativity deficit.
New to the channel. Bringing Patrick in was a great addition. I watched the end of season review and, given the eventual spend, it makes an interesting watch.
Re the rangers fans lacking patience, I think one the major reasons Barcelona are a complete basket case is the fans being able to vote the president out every 5 years so they have to spend money and can't rebuild sensibly. Fans really can't really see long term at any team.
Interested counterpoint to my opinion that we need fan representation on the board. But I think at the end of the day it’s a little like the argument behind house of lords reform - diverse representation is necessary and all the pitfalls that come with it
But in the social meedya world of 2024, there is COMPLETELY no ''patience'' with EVERYONE wanting signings NOW, wanting success NOW etc etc & that of course only adds to the huge ginormous pressure that Clementine is TOTALLY under & regardless of him signing a new four year deal or whatever, since it'll take at least four years to try & sort oot the complete delinquent mess that Ibrokes is in & how on earth do you begin to sort it oot when you have COMPLETELY no money & there's already HUGE questions aboot Clementine amongst the Ibrokes support & so if we go unbeaten against them & win yet another domestic Treble this season as we really should do, how on earth will Clementine be able to survive that???
Guys, Great pod! This was super helpful viz the comments earlier in the week. As a biostatistician, knowing your general backgrounds is helpful. As a point of feedback, I agree with Alan’s point in framing. Having to publish my work in peer reviewed journals to keep a job, one of the first things I think about (for right or wrong) when being presented already-crunched data after 1) hypothesis and 2) is the methodology internally valid, is “what’s the conclusion” (that is to say, in one sentence, what is this telling me? What’s the story based in the data?)? I think if you were to publish the story of the game for some reason, “Celtic’s midfield tactics likely led to success in that area, not the respective performance of the personnel” is far more compelling and informative than “Rangers were better in the margins”. Both are true, certainly, but I think the latter tells the story more thoroughly. Just an opinion, though, certainly. At any rate, thanks for the work you guys do! I popped for “All models are wrong, some are informative.” It’s really the First Commandment of analysis. I still am a wet blanket about certain SABR metrics that are pretty well validated by now (residual confounding, lack of confidence intervals in stats that could have them, poor standardization for things like park adjustments, etc), and in saying that I think you guys do a great job with a sport with much less clearly demarcated instances of play than baseball or cricket - really the forefathers of sports stats overload. Bobby
Brilliant podcast as ever guys... Interesting about the midfield losing statistically... As usual, I think there is context which you delivered : 1) Game state - when 2-0 up it's easy to manage the game and if that means losing some battles then so be it. I'd be surprised if the numbers show anything other than dominance from the 10th to 45th minute. 2) We may have lost the battle but we won the war - by pressing the midfield they left acres of space between their middle and back line and our wingers/full backs had a field day. Anyway James the criticism was absurd but that's twitter for you - literally offers no nuance - please keep doing what your doing!
Keep on trucking, James. I listen and learn. FYI: BTC is 24/7 my Irish American cousin 💚 Haha "The Missouri boat ride" The Outlaw Josie Wales ☺ I assumed you were a Boston punter 🤷♂️
Best Celtic pod out there. Will the substack thing be a paid membership and if so how much are we looking at? I tend to disagree around the Rangers midfield being effective debate. While some of the stats indicate that they fared well, I felt that we largely controlled it as our midfield was way more effective at actually threatening and making something happen. Always considered Hatate to be a prime example of this generally - we frequently see an abundance of complete rubbish from him that probably reflects poorly stats-wise over 90 min but he's capable of popping up with one or two real moments of quality that turn a game. The eyetest didnt indicate their midfield won the battle either - never really felt worried outside maybe their early pressure and perhaps a forlorn push late on for a consolation. Quality-wise, Hatate put Kyogo clean through; Bernardo waltzed through their defence and should've scored; McGregor did score and came from pressure in an advanced midfield position. These were all moments of quality from our midfield that they simply lacked and that's before we consider Taylor (often a de facto midfielder based on positioning) winning the ball in a wide-midfield position to set Kyogo up and Bernardo's role in Maeda's goal. Moral of the story for me is that we can maybe afford some slack play by our "midfielders" if they produce moments of quality and players around them support and compensate (looking in the main at Johnston and Taylor from this game). Don't feel the quality events within the game can be deemed random variance either given solid pressing has been a feature of our game this season and honestly think that even if the game was repeated play for play, we still win the game as e.g. Kuhn isnt offside; Hatate's shot flies in off the post; Bernardo gets better contact with his effort; Souttar knocks it into his own net instead of what ended up being a cracking clearance from an awkward position; Johnson's cross ends up in the net; someone turns the backpost corners in; or Kyogo puts it in the top or bottom corner instead of going for the chip (and that's irrespective of whether Dessers scores his sitter). Any of those things happening (including a Rangers goal from Dessers or 2x early offide efforts) affect gamestate but honestly feel overall that they didn't do enough.
This is what I seen (not from the ground like yer man). In the opening 10-15 minutes we started cold and lacking tempo ,as a result Rangers who turned up to have a go and not sit back managed to not only press us back but also fashion two clear chances (which as yer man who was at the game already pointed out) which if this was Champions League we would most likely be severely punished for. Now whilst the stats don’t recognise the fact these were clear chances due to the offside rule our Manager and Captain were CLEARLY not impressed with the lacklustre start to the game. Alan rightly picks up the CMF losing possession and it was one of these instances (McGregor lost out a 50/50 with Sterling and looked a bit annoyed at that) that Callum McGregor grabbed the game by the haw maws and upped both the tempo and the urgency with his fantastic through ball to Kühn that resulted in a very tight decision going their way. At that moment all momentum that they had mustered was now lost in a flurry of severe panic as their Central Defence realised we could slice them open at will. Which for the most part we did the entire first half. Pulling their defence wide on both flanks was the tactical move by Brendan that rendered their one and only master plan useless. All by design so kudos to Brendan for that. We controlled the bulk of the game both in possession and out of possession letting them have it safe in the knowledge we would rattle them on the counter or simply let their abysmal front line struggle to produce anything of note. Dessers is fraud had they a decent target man up top we could well have been a goal or two down after 15 minutes chasing a game we ultimately bossed in the end. Do that against the quality in Europe then we will be punished. Great result but we cannot afford to start these tougher games with that opening 15 minutes at the weekend.
Bhoys, your content is outstanding and I genuinely hope you aren't impacted by the criticism this week. I listen because I want a different point of view to what I see watching Celtic...I don't need to listen to people just stating the obvious. We need you and your pod, not a Celtic version of Kris Boyd's rants.
Message to all happy clappers, don't watch this podcast, it's not for you This podcast is for fans who don't get blindly emotionally attached to players as if they're our husbands and take any any sort of criticism towards a players performance as blasphemous, honestly the happy clappers behave like emotional teenagers when it comes to constructive criticism of Celtic players, embarrassing, news flash, no player is perfect, some less so than others, therefore when performance levels through data (with proper context behind it) point towards a good or poor performance, it will rightfully be called out on this podcast, no matter who the player is, just because you're too blind (or selectively) to see what the data reveals after a match, that's your issue, not Juco or Alans If it was up to the happy clappers amongst the support, we'd be relegated season after season, because they could never bring themselves to be critical of anyone playing or managing Celtic no matter how poor they're playing/managing We have done absolutely nothing in Europe for over a decade, wake tf up, these players aren't at the level many believe just because of how dominant we've been domestically, that hasn't translated into Europe, Juco and Alan will always keep it real, they won't let emotion blind them from the truth, I'd feel far more positive about the future of Celtic if Juco and Alan were in the building over every single happy clapper out there combined being involved in the decision making of the club, that's for sure
I wholeheartedly agree, but a bit incomplete. The cynics, the pre-rejecters, can do one too. It's about objective reality not subjectivity whether it is an over or an underestimate of of our situation. You can't improve, can't move from point A to point B if you don't have the best idea of where point A is and inches either way creates a problem for plotting the course properly. I don't think anyone who is passionate has a good handle during the game, it even takes Alan hundreds of minutes (did he say 600 per games?) of analysis to get there.
A lot of that I agree with but I strongly dislike the term 'Happy Clapper' as attaching such a puerile label to others simply because they don't follow your own particular narrative is silly, disrespectful and self-defeating. So totally agree with Alan about that. Getting that off my chest you are absolutely right about how some players are seemingly immune to criticism whilst the cult figures get off Scot-free. O'Riley and Hatate are/were prime examples. I've seen both having poor games and yet nothing is said, indeed sometimes either one is said to be MOTM. 🤣. Kyogo, for example, can miss a chance (which he might well have created himself)and some fans immediately call for him to be replaced by Idah! We all, including myself, have our little preferences and player prejudices and we should treat these as such and not our own as Absolute Truth. Getting back to Sunday's game even the simple eye-test suggested that, despite our understandable euphoria at mauling our great 'rival:, Celtic were not brilliant .. on the other hand, one could rightly argue that we didn't have to be and never really had to get out of first and second gear. Alan and James are like a breath of fresh air in revealing what actually did happen on Sunday and not what we just like to remember. That, of course, shouldn't stop us celebrating the result wildly and enthusiastically .. but now we need to Calm Doon and ponder the much bigger tests just around the corner. 👍☘️🏴
I love the way James always says it like it is. He said a year ago MO will get sold and he got so much sh*t, I didn't like it but i knew he was completly correct. Alan has a more social way of putting his points accross, It's aways a pleasure to watch.
@@gezobel It is a bit of problem with language isn't it? You can say table/happy clapper or you can describe a table/happy clapper. It's just a shorthand for concept. Descriptions take time, but maybe the description is necessary, because people have different understandings of proper definitions of things, and language drifts over time because of this. As it goes, to paraphrase this: “My dear Watson," said [Sherlock Holmes], "I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one's self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one's own powers.” ― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Adventure of the Greek Interpreter (The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, #9 ) ...whether you are a 'happy clapper' (sorry Gezobel) or a hopeless cynic, if your subjective take is not properly matched to objective reality, wrong is wrong.
If the cost of something is too high due to the losses then why do it? That is the headache for Clement and it comes down to Celtic having higher quality footballers. In that context then Clements high press tactic was too big a risk given the quality of the players at his disposal who aren't good at converting turnovers. I thought his best chance was to bunker in and roll the dice at 70 minutes, but even that is a risk with inferior players.
There is potentially another way The Rangers club could close the gap on us. They sort of use this approach already to an extent: They could focus 100% on buying the sort of players who will win regular SPFL games 99 times out of 100. eg: highly athletic players, strong enough to survive plenty body contact. Set piece specialists, big fast centre backs who can defend aerially against target man strikers, poacher strikers (like shankland?) who will score bucketloads in low pressure situations; guys who can ALL play on synthetic pitches etc etc. If they do this, and effectively guarantee (as much as possible) 100% wins against the rest of the league, that will give them a fighting chance of going into the Derby games with a bit of a lead. That would mean the Derby (and all its randomness, red cards, penalties, dodgy offsides etc) would conceivably count for a lot more. Celtic look very strong right now, but most seasons our lightweight, undersized, technical but pretty unathletic team tend to struggle at some grounds (plastic pitches, tight parks etc). If The Rangers put all their resources into winning those games, they COULD be in a position whereby a win, a loss and 2 draws in the Derbies could see them finish ahead of us. A long shot I know, but something that could drag us into a sh!t fight, especially if (when) Rodgers moves on. Thoughts?
Like it or not, both members of the duopoly do their shopping in a market where the purchases that are made, ONLY have flaws & often serious flaws in their game & how else can it be & sometimes ''good'' coaching can disguise and/or minimise to some extent, these flaws & often serious flaws, when playing in the woeful & dire SPL but of course, never as much when playing in Europe & particularly at the very highest level in Europe & where these flaws & often serious flaws, will be both ruthlessly exposed & fatally punished & where the Ibrokes lot are also seriously struggling & have been for a while, is that they are far more seriously weak & fragile mentally & that ONLY makes them a bit of a basket case as they are right now.
I understand that Celtic are refusing the away fans ticket allocation for the post split fixture because it would be unfair while 'the ranjurs' can't guarantee a top 6 finish.
Great discussion. Hatate is a huge worry for me for obvious reasons. I’m convinced Engels will replace him and I also expect McGregor’s stats to improve once that happens. It’s very difficult to perform with a player who lacks physicality, pace and gives up possession in the manner Hatate does.
Celtic will have people @ Lennoxtown doing the same work as you do on the show, in breaking down our performance, & remember keyboard warriors always need a target, 2 shows a week 👍
twice in one week, luxury pretty much agree with everything , but to add to alans point about the midfield battle. rangers mids had more touches , but celtics mids attack contribution enough for .9 goals, rangers mids .09 goals so an order of magnitude difference the only other observation i would make is about Celtics press. the pre season and league so far has been about tweaking celtics pressing set up for CL. understandable , because whether its the right model and how well its executed will make or break celitcs CL campaign. the press is kennedys love child from angeball, and its clear kennedy and rodgers have the slide rule out in terms of the precision required. hatate is still a liability in the press , he didnt get his positioning right on a number of occasions. this rangers side doesnt have the transition threat of previous teams , and yet celtic got out of shape in their set up for a couple of periods during the game, it wasnt as bad as under angeball , because its clear a lot of thought has gone into how celtic run the rotations and when they restrict the inversion , and its very clear both scales and taylor are under very specific instructions as to where and when they contest possession , so considerable improvement . celltics ability to slow down the transition speed of the opposition when the tempo gets lifted is going to decide the outcome of the CL campaign, and i think that was rodgers learning from last CL, given what is an observable obsession with the press by him and kennedy.
UA-cam watcher only and I don't do any social media so I'm insulated from the ad hominem stuff. Ridiculous that James is having to put up with that, especially when it is coming from fellow Celtic supporters. With the ownership and current ethos of that platform I do wonder if it is the best place to engage with any of the more nuanced analytics without being faced with the more neanderthal keyboard warriors. I would be devastated if it was to cause any retrenchment in this podcast as it is the best deep dive out there and is a worthy complement to the daily shows such as ACSOM. Keep up the good work guys and look forward to the future developments, cheers 👍
Fantastic Pod as always , Sorry to hear James is getting flak from the hard of thinking in our support base . Why they feel people are interested in their opinions , is a mystery
Unfortunately James you have, perhaps for the first time, come across the Celtic support group think phenomenon which no-one ever speaks of but permeates throughout the fan base during the entire history of the club, manifesting itself in football, the issues of the day and tragically, politics as well.
Ah yes, ''the Celtic support group think phenomenon'' & so what both angers & saddens me in this context, is the fact that the most horrific & vitriolic abuse James has received & indeed other ''Celtic Americans'' who support Celtic Football Club from the USA & who are viewed with more than just a little bit of patronising disdain as one ''Celtic American'' voiced it recently, is that also fuelling this most vitriolic abuse & hate will be for reasons completely NOTHING to do with football & of course, they will most vehemently & strenuously deny this fact, but they will be lying & we all know they are lying & continue to lie in this regard....
@@frankbrennan1619 always noticed this about our support. If you're not from Glasgow and Ireland then you're a second rate supporter who doesn't know the real 'Celtic' since moving to Melbourne and frequenting the Supporters clubs I've had a bit of this attitude but I'm 45 so can handle it. However, noticed that our new Aussie supporters (who have stayed even after Ange) have been getting it tight. Some are lucky to choose Celtic and others are born into it, both are equal in my eyes. Hail Hail
@christianharding3298 I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one and I am originally from Glasgow. I am atheist and have no affiliation whatsoever to any religion. In fact, I believe religion is responsible for many of humanity's ills, but that's not for discussion here. Its only relevance is that I was once banned from a Green Brigade forum shortly after their conception for being, in their eyes, anti-catholic, anti-Irish and a hun spy for pointing out to them in a respectful manner that the name "Green Brigade" was first used by a Protestant mercenary regiment to fight against Catholicism in mainland Europe. The vitriolic abuse I received was vile to put it mildly. Their fury and rage was every bit as ugly as that which we witness and condemn from the other side of the city. As far as they were concerned I was not a true Celtic supporter and never could be. Utter nonsense, of course, because not one of them could define what a true Celtic supporter is in the context of simply supporting a football team that I enjoy watching play football. Yes, even through the lean years. Hail, Hail.🍀
@@LordLauchlan My Lord, two things I would say, one, if different ethnic groups and cultures didn't have religion to fight about they would find something else and two, the green brigade are a danger to this club and what little reputation we have left. They must be removed immediately and permanently. The far left owns every institution in the UK and is eating the nation from the inside out. The neds in the north east corner are part of this unholy alliance. A bunch of new folk in the same place to form a new singing section and no one would notice the difference except we wouldn't be seen to be advancing the Iranian regime's geopolitical goals with THAT flag.
James and Alan. Personal attacks should be ignored. “Empty vessels make the most noise” as the saying goes. Prior to watching The Huddle Breakdown I personally had little to no interest in analytics. Your content is insightful, informative and very entertaining. Keep up the great work guys
Like it or not, it is ONLY these now very fast approaching EIGHT ''stand alone'' Champions League games from September through to January, that will be season defining for Rodgers certainly in the context of ALL of the signings made in this summer's transfer window are ALL his & at a cost of £32 million, so when they're on the pitch, they just MUST perform & for sure, it's not our back four or front three that will concern me the most when playing at the very highest level in Europe, but instead ONLY a middle three of now in his 32nd year Wee Callum & his best footballing days at this level now COMPLETELY behind him & the give the ball away too easily & too often Hatate & cut price Bernardo & that little trio will cost us dear.
So if I understand right, sevco’s tactics helped them edge some aspects in midfield, but weakened them everywhere else. (They may have the midfield to disrupt Celtic’s in some ways, but their defence isn’t capable of aligning with them when they do it.) And from Celtics point of view those instances are small but significant enough to warrant discussion, though the wider context is domination.
The instances of the likes of Wee Callum, moody & sulky & now injury prone Hatate & cut price Bernardo giving the ball away too easily against the likes of Ross County & Motherwell is that it's almost certain they will NOT be fatally punished for doing so, whereas in the context of playing at the very highest level in Europe & as we'll be doing very shortly, just giving the ball away far too easily on ONLY two or three occasions is simply far too often & as our midfield trio will almost certainly do & then the follow on from that, is that it's almost certain we will be fatally punished for doing so & how else can it be when we're playing at the very highest level in Europe?
I would be curious to know how Jack Butland’s data holds up to the early big fee incoming hype perpetrated by the Rangers fans? Not a very good goalkeeper. An ageing Joe Hart appeared to be more secure in his performances in the latter months of last season.
@@garymelrose9727 Broadly as per Statsbombs very good GK data set. Net/Net Hart and Butland profiled quite similarly - Butland maybe the better shot stopper, Hart making a better fist of it (lol) with ball at feet.
Great podcast as always. People like simplicity and easy narratives unfortunately. Probably the reason why we have had 14 years of Tory rule, "ban the boats", mass austerity and potholes the depth of loch ness on every second street now.
Always love your viewpoints, do you think perhaps you could analyse Spurs occasionally. It's Ange after all. And btw for your peace of mind Yeats once commented "all empty souls tend toward extreme opinions"
I dont think any of the starting 11 deserved to be dropped for the Derby regardless of the quality on the bench. Firstly because of their form and secondly for the most part due to their experience in the fixture. Im sure some of the new players will be starting games soon but i dont think the derby was the correct time to do it.
Context is fine, but I think the emotions kicked in, but any comment made should be considered carefully first. I don’t think you thought the comment through IMO. Surely you would’ve known to expect that reaction, given the CONTEXT of what people just witnesses, AND REALLY REALLY enjoyed after weeks of stress about Transfers and our CL draw.
No, ''context is everything'' & for me certainly, James' comments are ALWAYS ''considered carefully first'' & the remarks that he made about the midfield battle that brought about all the vitriolic abuse & hate, were, of course, ONLY part of a wider discussion & other comments he made in this regard, but you know this already, or should do & even now after James has again further explained in greater depth & the fact too, as you well know, his original comments were snipped & edited & the person(s) doing the snipping & the editing & so ONLY taking the comments James made COMPLETELY out of context, knew EXACTLY what they were doing & the furore it would cause & yet still you make the comments that you do?
Why didn't we go for Hannibal from Man U 9.5mil a year older than engels and an out right number 10 that can cover on the wing , we got plenty of 8s at the club
Surely stats require the managers input to give overall context to the stats validity ? For example players positioning on and off the ball. The managers instructions to players while in possession. The pattern of play he expects his team to conduct while in possession. Without you knowing those intentions then how can you validate or give context to those stats. They're opinions unless validated by the coach. That's even before you even factor in refereeing bias or other none playing officials interference in game.
@alanmorrison5981 I'm not saying that.. But the stats can't be definitive without coach oversight. For example: The manager instructs his midfield to use the left wing in all forward attack.. Does that mean that right winger is pants. A simple example I know, but some people could wrongly perceive the right wingers' lack of involvement as having a poor or quiet game.
@@WildWestlad I get you. Any additional context helps. I do believe we should at least try and make sense of it. The quality of the analysis is for others to judge accordingly.
@alanmorrison5981 Of course Alan. I really enjoy the work you guys do. Stats definitely have a place in the game in relation to predictors and analysis. Especially in player procurement. For example, Tavernier goals for make him look like a world beating RB. But once you do a deep dive and add context to the Stats then you realise he's a sevco player that benefitted from dodgy refereeing decisions in the forward areas and that he's rank rotten as a full back. Thats Stats for you 🤣🤣🤣
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding, To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean, No one has seen them made or heard them made, But at spring mending-time we find them there.
Er....excuse me ,Dallas is a nice wee village a few miles from me here in Elgin .I would bet it's been in existence for longer than that soap opera destination in the US of A 🧐.....😂🍀💚🇮🇪 Dallas , unfortunately is very much Scottish.
There was a clip taken from the last podcast of James saying Rangers won the midfield battle, and there was an uproar. The clip, however, cut off before the context was provided.
Yes. A very snidey thing to do.The person who clipped it obviously knew what was said before & after but chose to clip that specific bit. He obviously has a problem with James but rather than engage with some honesty and have a debate, he chose instead to engage in the sort of slimy tactics that the tabloid press engage in.
Statistically speaking, what percentage of James's sentences does he actually end up completing, and what is the average time he takes to get to the point? Just asking...
It would be nice to think that James' comment of '' the tactics won the battle, the individuals did NOT'' would make his most abusive critics stop & think even for just a moment, about the ''winning of the midfield battle'' in the Glasgow derby, but probably not in the context of their completely blind & slavish support for the likes of Wee Callum, moody & sulky & now injury prone Hatate & cut price Bernardo & the fact that they can get COMPLETELY away with giving the ball away too easily and/or too often against the likes of Ross County & Motherwell & even now our bitterest rivals, whereas when you're playing at the very highest level in Europe, as we're just about to start doing in EIGHT ''stand alone games'' you ONLY ever get fatally punished, but probably not.
Substack is a writing and pod hosting platform. We are building our own Huddle Breakdown site within that platform. It isn't "open to the public" yet. Watch this space. Also, we'll try and provide guidance on how to join.
To be honest, Scottish people will simply ‘call out’ things they don’t like or agree with; It’s not really a ‘passive aggressive’ culture. Nothing groundbreaking about that, let’s be honest.
I’d also like to know if the Matondo header was included. He was clearly offside but he headed it past the post and the onfield decision was a goal kick to Celtic. So his header “counted” so to speak because VAR cannot get involved for goal kicks. But if he’d scored the header then surely VAR would have chopped it off? So maybe some stats providers have included that chance whilst others have not?
Some models are way more sophisticated in terms of what they capture. A basic xG model just looks at where the shot is taken and assigns it a probability of ending in a goal - there is no other information in there. Statsbomb's model is at the other end of the scale. Not only does it capture where a shot was taken, it takes into account the goalkeepers position, where the other players are positioned relative to the shot, the height of the ball (I.e. a cutback along the ground is easier to score than a drilled pass 2 yards off the ground that the receiving player needs to volley), as well as the velocity of the actual shot. Basic xG models are still useful but the more sophisticated ones ala Statsbomb provide more accurate and richer information.
@@graftingdiamond6775that’s an incredibly complex scenario with all the factors involving statbomb’s model, I’m presuming that these factors are still determined by a human based on what they’re seeing as the play takes shape?
I think you just neglect that word choice is as important as the robustness of the data sets. won the midfield is clearly an ambiguous statement that can go a lot further than what you mean. and most people at least like to think they have better literacy than numeracy because they use it more. so to talk to them you need to get better at sports vernacular. or maybe you don't want to talk to them since twitter is stormfront now.
Never engage with bad actors, it is pointless and makes it look like you are on the same level when you are not. Stormfront Twitterers are sturm und drang fascists and fascists are bad actors.
@@alanmorrison5981 Thanks Alan. Both of you please keep up the excellent work. I noticed that Engels came on as a sub for Belgium tonight. I suspect given his transfer fee and the fact he’s now the highest earner by a significant margin he’ll replace Hatate imminently. No harm to Hatate but I think that’ll improve our possession based game significantly.
What happened to my comment? I talked astrophysics; gave poetry, philosophy, science, Russian literature and bible quotes the whole 9. Was it the anti-Trump-y bit?
Oh and the Scottish are a working/dole-class Society. Science, numbers, ‘fancy talk’ is an automatic turn-off. And that’s whats disappointing about our Culture. Be open minded.
I haven't lived in Scotland for a long long time. One aspect i have never missed is an inherent inverted snobbery. Scots are remarkable for a small race and should celebrate that fact.
@@alanmorrison5981 I always remember Sir Billy Connolly talking aboot him visiting Glasgow after he had moved to London & when he was still on the drink & of course, when you're back in Glasvegas, where else are you going, other than going doon the pub with some of the old pals from back in the day & so if he just bought his round of drinks, there was all the talk of him being a tight, miserable, bastard, when it was ONLY he who had far more money than they all had & then on his next visit & when he would be buying the drinks all night & so them NEVER having to put their hands in their pockets, it wis noo ONLY a case of him being a flash bastard & flashing his money all aboot in their faces!!!
The host Martin, thought a lot and spoke constantly for 1st 6mins. Sorry not tuning in for his podcast. I thought he ruined the podcast with the Rangers analyst also.
@@con999t I'm confident Martin will fairly soon start to ''settle down'' but on this occasion the old farts sitting either side of him had that slightly glazed look at the ramblings from our dear old, now clean shaven, Martin Murphy, but still looking a bit like the infamous & notorious Martin Stone and/or Sammy Wilson & completely understandably too, even though Martin ONLY wanted to convey his sheer, understandable, joy of being one of the privileged 60,000 at Celtic Park to witness the 3-0 thumping of our bitterest rivals & of course, in an environment where as James said, there would be no ''objective'' analysis of the stats & data as to how individuals actually performed in ''winning the midfield battle.''
I think Martin is a just a bit nervous. Give him a bit to get settled and I'm sure he will calm down. I felt the same way tbh but we need to be more generous, we are all humans.
Well done Alan, James and Martin for constantly producing top class content. This is a great podcast and really elevates the discourse around all things Celtic.
thanks - very kind
James - I sincerely hope you don't let the idiots bring you down.
There are plenty of other Celtic podcasts out there that in effect act as cheerleaders for the club and take any constructive criticism of Celtic as a direct attack and/or as an admission of treachery.
The insight Alan and James have provided over the years is absolutely invaluable and has added an immeasurable amount of quality to Celtic related discourse.
Ultimately we all want Celtic to be the best they can be, it's just the way of getting there where opinions differ - and that's fine.
I often think people rebel so strongly against the use of analytics in football because they intuitively understand that it exposes their understanding of football to scrutiny and challenge. Pub chat, fuelled by drink, passion and bluster has its place, but it also has obvious limitations. The fact that there is a space for reasoned and thoughtful debate on football/Celtic here on the Huddle Breakdown is magic and long may it continue.
Couldn't agree more on every one of your points.
Very kind - thanks
Best celtic podcast, well done lads.
Lovely comment this
The Huddle podcast with James and Alan is by far the most interesting , sophisticated and informative than the usual dross in you tube , particularly other podcasts available . Keep up the good work it’s brilliant. 👍👍👍🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪🤩
very kind - x
Agreed, this is the only podcast that takes a sober, forensic approach to Celtic Football Club. The rest are more or less fanzines.
@@otisbdriftwood6520 And the answer as to how to best to describe 99% of all the other Celtic podcasts as ''fanzines'' is for me the best description yet & for sure, I loved my written & buy in the shop or outside Celtic Park on match day, Celtic fanzines of the 1980s & 1990s & long before the world wide web & Twitter, Twotter, Twat got a vice like grip on most people & often Celtic ''fanzines'' of the podcast variety can be very fine & dandy, but the clear & present danger for ALL of them & most sadly fail to avoid the danger of merely becoming one dimensional & of the much favoured ''back Brendan, there's all that money just sitting there in the bank doing nothing, Sack the Board'' one dimensional variety...
Sure it's the thinking fans podcast
@@frankbrennan1619Spot on .. I need say no more.
Love this show . By far the most informative podcast out there . Keep up the great work
thank you
This pod is about how Celtic can improve, against our rivals domestically and more importantly, in Europe...
The tools these guys use are akin to the strategies deployed by Brighton FC and who can deny their resilience / progress in one of the worlds most difficult leagues.
Keep up the great work!.
Note to JucoJames - UA-cam, Facebook and X have a wonderful potential to link people up to talk about things that interest us. We can debate, critique and educate on the subject. Unfortunately, too many people simply lash out when they hear things that they don’t like. They’re the very same people who turn on the players when things get tough. Best to ignore them. More importantly, there are literally thousands of people who listen in and appreciate the hard work that you clearly put into the content and, long may that continue.
Anyway, the new format is FAB and, anything that gives us double bubble of the delightful Alan Morrison is a sure winner.
Martin is a great addition to the team.
Love the new format and getting more from you over each week. Love this and it is the go to Celtic Channel. I appreciate the objective viewpoints and not the rantings of what is thought - prefer what actually happened. Keep up the great work guys and gals.
Very kind - thanks
Apparently SEVCO have complained to the SPFL because after the game on Sunday, when they got back to their bus, Maeda was already in Tavernier's seat. 😁
I love the Huddle Breakdown with the intellectuals in charge of content. Keep up the great work guys 👍
Thank you guys. Refreshing to get a data based analysis, albeit qualified and in need of further commentary, but we're on a long road.
The Best Celtic Channel there is. Proper analysis. Different Level!
Thanks guys. I look forward to your analysis at every podcast. Great insights into your background and also the perspective from the someone at the game. I watched the game both at the time and after. I value your insights.
I love watching us beat our rivals and I know you guys do too. I learn so much from this podcast about what we need to guard against and what we can build on.
Sorry you’ve been getting abuse, what’s that old saying….never debate with eejits, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with their experience.😂
What’s it like to make a comment people don’t like? Never happened to me tbh.
😂🤣😂 There's a reason that you're one of my favourites Laura. If I wanted smoke blown up my erse, I'd be a SEVCO supporter. I need stats and unbiased overviews to balance the eye, especially as that tends to follow the ball!
🤣🤣
@@LauraABradburn Me too Bradburn.
Keep doing what your doing Lads, love the Show. Up the Celts.
Cheers Michael!
brilliant shows love the revamped season of the huddle breakdown lads.
At 2-0 both Desserts and Soutar had clear chances. We slackened off too much after half-time and we won't get away with that in champions league. Rangers are depressed not just because of the derby game but because they know their squad is depleted and low on quality and they now accept their football trading model is a failure. it's more what will lie in store for them that depresses them rather than a pumping at Celtic Park.
We were just as bad, if not worse, in the early 1990s pre Fergus McCann & his £9 million saving us from bankruptcy & of course back then, the world wide web, Twitter, You Tube & all the rest just simply didn't exist, as well as you have to be almost at least 50 years of age to have ANY kind of adult memories of just how bad it was for us back then, but it's now 2024 & the world has been in the vice like grip of the world wide web, You Tube, Twitter, Twotter, Twat, for many, many, years & where the all pervasive attitude is me, me, me, now, now, now & where EVERYTHING is either euphoric bliss or absolute catastrophic disaster, but if you live in the real world, it's never ever that good & the bad times never ever last forever either....
As always, appreciate the content and insights folks. I, fortunately, wasn’t aware of the abuse you’d been getting.
For the many of us who do enjoy your content, it’s the insights and different perspectives that make THB unique in this space. Keeping doing what you doing 💪
Thanks Jack. Those that don't enjoy the nerdiness (the majority) - it's fine and expected. Why the need to wait for the chance to dole our personal abuse is bewildering from fellow Celtic fans. Don't like it, ignore it, simple.
I think the rangers' fans frustrations with Tavernier are based on two main aspects.
1. Brendan Rodgers record vs them is PLD19 W15 D3 L1
Aside from BR, the common denominator in that run of results is TavPen. He's been the one constant at rangers throughout that period.
2. He's just not a very good defender. When all is said and done, a defenders main role is to defend. Having a good creative output from RB is a bonus BUT it's only a bonus if the RB in question isn't constantly giving away goals at the other end. TavPen has been directly or indirectly responsible for over a dozen Celtic goals.
He is a statistical juggernaut vs the rest of the SPFL but against Celtic (for all his attacking threat) he is a nett liability overall and for most rangers fans, it really does boil down to what you do vs Celtic.
I agree that rangers would likely be weaker overall (in terms of the full 38 league games) if he wasn't there but against Celtic specifically, I think he's more of a hindrance than a help vs Celtic.
It's a weird paradox to be in as a Celtic fan because he's not a player who concerns me when we play BUT I would still be happy to see the back of him because of what he brings to them vs all the other teams
Hi - Exactly, Id be delighted if the hounded out Tavernier and Dessers not because they hurt Celtic but because they get them out of scrapes vs the rest
He's their best player by a mile. Scored and assisted against us his whole career inc stopping the ten. I'd love him to go
@@Pete-ou9kj His record against Celtic, even goals and assists, is very average and well below his average vs other teams. 6 gls and 6 assists in 38 matches. The point is his record vs the rest of the league helps hugely being what Dave King called "solid second". Remove those and they have an even greater creativity deficit.
New to the channel. Bringing Patrick in was a great addition.
I watched the end of season review and, given the eventual spend, it makes an interesting watch.
Welcome!
Brilliant content as usual. Social media is grotesque.
Great show, guys 👍🍀
Re the rangers fans lacking patience, I think one the major reasons Barcelona are a complete basket case is the fans being able to vote the president out every 5 years so they have to spend money and can't rebuild sensibly. Fans really can't really see long term at any team.
Interested counterpoint to my opinion that we need fan representation on the board.
But I think at the end of the day it’s a little like the argument behind house of lords reform - diverse representation is necessary and all the pitfalls that come with it
Bit like UK government then?
But in the social meedya world of 2024, there is COMPLETELY no ''patience'' with EVERYONE wanting signings NOW, wanting success NOW etc etc & that of course only adds to the huge ginormous pressure that Clementine is TOTALLY under & regardless of him signing a new four year deal or whatever, since it'll take at least four years to try & sort oot the complete delinquent mess that Ibrokes is in & how on earth do you begin to sort it oot when you have COMPLETELY no money & there's already HUGE questions aboot Clementine amongst the Ibrokes support & so if we go unbeaten against them & win yet another domestic Treble this season as we really should do, how on earth will Clementine be able to survive that???
Your plans for the future sound exciting - can’t wait 👍
thanks gary
Great show and response to the unfortunate vocal minority of detractors. Keep up the good work, it's always engaging and well presented.
thanks Gavin
Love the way Martin says, "just one thing I noticed ".. about 9 times lol. Great video guys HH
My vocal crutch is “but the less said about that, the better.”
We all have em! 😃
Guys,
Great pod! This was super helpful viz the comments earlier in the week. As a biostatistician, knowing your general backgrounds is helpful. As a point of feedback, I agree with Alan’s point in framing. Having to publish my work in peer reviewed journals to keep a job, one of the first things I think about (for right or wrong) when being presented already-crunched data after 1) hypothesis and 2) is the methodology internally valid, is “what’s the conclusion” (that is to say, in one sentence, what is this telling me? What’s the story based in the data?)?
I think if you were to publish the story of the game for some reason, “Celtic’s midfield tactics likely led to success in that area, not the respective performance of the personnel” is far more compelling and informative than “Rangers were better in the margins”. Both are true, certainly, but I think the latter tells the story more thoroughly. Just an opinion, though, certainly.
At any rate, thanks for the work you guys do!
I popped for “All models are wrong, some are informative.” It’s really the First Commandment of analysis. I still am a wet blanket about certain SABR metrics that are pretty well validated by now (residual confounding, lack of confidence intervals in stats that could have them, poor standardization for things like park adjustments, etc), and in saying that I think you guys do a great job with a sport with much less clearly demarcated instances of play than baseball or cricket - really the forefathers of sports stats overload.
Bobby
Thank you Bobby - greatly appreciated
Brilliant content now twice a week 👌... really enjoying the new concept. Personally I think Enda was holding yous back all this time 😂
He's a young lad, his development loan to Australia will bear fruit - very high ceiling
😂😂@@alanmorrison5981
@@alanmorrison5981 😂
I wish we wouldn’t take the foot of the gas. It would be good to get up to sixth gear for the 90 in preparation for Champions League football
Superb guys :) love the new look etc
Brilliant podcast as ever guys... Interesting about the midfield losing statistically... As usual, I think there is context which you delivered :
1) Game state - when 2-0 up it's easy to manage the game and if that means losing some battles then so be it. I'd be surprised if the numbers show anything other than dominance from the 10th to 45th minute.
2) We may have lost the battle but we won the war - by pressing the midfield they left acres of space between their middle and back line and our wingers/full backs had a field day.
Anyway James the criticism was absurd but that's twitter for you - literally offers no nuance - please keep doing what your doing!
Keep on trucking, James. I listen and learn. FYI: BTC is 24/7 my Irish American cousin 💚
Haha "The Missouri boat ride" The Outlaw Josie Wales ☺ I assumed you were a Boston punter 🤷♂️
Best Celtic pod out there. Will the substack thing be a paid membership and if so how much are we looking at?
I tend to disagree around the Rangers midfield being effective debate. While some of the stats indicate that they fared well, I felt that we largely controlled it as our midfield was way more effective at actually threatening and making something happen. Always considered Hatate to be a prime example of this generally - we frequently see an abundance of complete rubbish from him that probably reflects poorly stats-wise over 90 min but he's capable of popping up with one or two real moments of quality that turn a game. The eyetest didnt indicate their midfield won the battle either - never really felt worried outside maybe their early pressure and perhaps a forlorn push late on for a consolation.
Quality-wise, Hatate put Kyogo clean through; Bernardo waltzed through their defence and should've scored; McGregor did score and came from pressure in an advanced midfield position. These were all moments of quality from our midfield that they simply lacked and that's before we consider Taylor (often a de facto midfielder based on positioning) winning the ball in a wide-midfield position to set Kyogo up and Bernardo's role in Maeda's goal.
Moral of the story for me is that we can maybe afford some slack play by our "midfielders" if they produce moments of quality and players around them support and compensate (looking in the main at Johnston and Taylor from this game). Don't feel the quality events within the game can be deemed random variance either given solid pressing has been a feature of our game this season and honestly think that even if the game was repeated play for play, we still win the game as e.g. Kuhn isnt offside; Hatate's shot flies in off the post; Bernardo gets better contact with his effort; Souttar knocks it into his own net instead of what ended up being a cracking clearance from an awkward position; Johnson's cross ends up in the net; someone turns the backpost corners in; or Kyogo puts it in the top or bottom corner instead of going for the chip (and that's irrespective of whether Dessers scores his sitter).
Any of those things happening (including a Rangers goal from Dessers or 2x early offide efforts) affect gamestate but honestly feel overall that they didn't do enough.
I don't understand the snobbery about McCowan from our side - at the very least, he's going to keep Hatate honest.
Haven’t read anyone saying it was a bad signing.
Thanks
Much appreciated
This is what I seen (not from the ground like yer man).
In the opening 10-15 minutes we started cold and lacking tempo ,as a result Rangers who turned up to have a go and not sit back managed to not only press us back but also fashion two clear chances (which as yer man who was at the game already pointed out) which if this was Champions League we would most likely be severely punished for.
Now whilst the stats don’t recognise the fact these were clear chances due to the offside rule our Manager and Captain were CLEARLY not impressed with the lacklustre start to the game.
Alan rightly picks up the CMF losing possession and it was one of these instances (McGregor lost out a 50/50 with Sterling and looked a bit annoyed at that) that Callum McGregor grabbed the game by the haw maws and upped both the tempo and the urgency with his fantastic through ball to Kühn that resulted in a very tight decision going their way.
At that moment all momentum that they had mustered was now lost in a flurry of severe panic as their Central Defence realised we could slice them open at will.
Which for the most part we did the entire first half.
Pulling their defence wide on both flanks was the tactical move by Brendan that rendered their one and only master plan useless.
All by design so kudos to Brendan for that.
We controlled the bulk of the game both in possession and out of possession letting them have it safe in the knowledge we would rattle them on the counter or simply let their abysmal front line struggle to produce anything of note.
Dessers is fraud had they a decent target man up top we could well have been a goal or two down after 15 minutes chasing a game we ultimately bossed in the end.
Do that against the quality in Europe then we will be punished.
Great result but we cannot afford to start these tougher games with that opening 15 minutes at the weekend.
Great show guys.
thanks John
Bhoys, your content is outstanding and I genuinely hope you aren't impacted by the criticism this week. I listen because I want a different point of view to what I see watching Celtic...I don't need to listen to people just stating the obvious. We need you and your pod, not a Celtic version of Kris Boyd's rants.
Message to all happy clappers, don't watch this podcast, it's not for you
This podcast is for fans who don't get blindly emotionally attached to players as if they're our husbands and take any any sort of criticism towards a players performance as blasphemous, honestly the happy clappers behave like emotional teenagers when it comes to constructive criticism of Celtic players, embarrassing, news flash, no player is perfect, some less so than others, therefore when performance levels through data (with proper context behind it) point towards a good or poor performance, it will rightfully be called out on this podcast, no matter who the player is, just because you're too blind (or selectively) to see what the data reveals after a match, that's your issue, not Juco or Alans
If it was up to the happy clappers amongst the support, we'd be relegated season after season, because they could never bring themselves to be critical of anyone playing or managing Celtic no matter how poor they're playing/managing
We have done absolutely nothing in Europe for over a decade, wake tf up, these players aren't at the level many believe just because of how dominant we've been domestically, that hasn't translated into Europe, Juco and Alan will always keep it real, they won't let emotion blind them from the truth, I'd feel far more positive about the future of Celtic if Juco and Alan were in the building over every single happy clapper out there combined being involved in the decision making of the club, that's for sure
Hear hear - well said.
I wholeheartedly agree, but a bit incomplete. The cynics, the pre-rejecters, can do one too. It's about objective reality not subjectivity whether it is an over or an underestimate of of our situation. You can't improve, can't move from point A to point B if you don't have the best idea of where point A is and inches either way creates a problem for plotting the course properly. I don't think anyone who is passionate has a good handle during the game, it even takes Alan hundreds of minutes (did he say 600 per games?) of analysis to get there.
A lot of that I agree with but I strongly dislike the term 'Happy Clapper' as attaching such a puerile label to others simply because they don't follow your own particular narrative is silly, disrespectful and self-defeating. So totally agree with Alan about that.
Getting that off my chest you are absolutely right about how some players are seemingly immune to criticism whilst the cult figures get off Scot-free. O'Riley and Hatate are/were prime examples. I've seen both having poor games and yet nothing is said, indeed sometimes either one is said to be MOTM. 🤣. Kyogo, for example, can miss a chance (which he might well have created himself)and some fans immediately call for him to be replaced by Idah!
We all, including myself, have our little preferences and player prejudices and we should treat these as such and not our own as Absolute Truth. Getting back to Sunday's game even the simple eye-test suggested that, despite our understandable euphoria at mauling our great 'rival:, Celtic were not brilliant .. on the other hand, one could rightly argue that we didn't have to be and never really had to get out of first and second gear.
Alan and James are like a breath of fresh air in revealing what actually did happen on Sunday and not what we just like to remember. That, of course, shouldn't stop us celebrating the result wildly and enthusiastically .. but now we need to Calm Doon and ponder the much bigger tests just around the corner. 👍☘️🏴
I love the way James always says it like it is. He said a year ago MO will get sold and he got so much sh*t, I didn't like it but i knew he was completly correct. Alan has a more social way of putting his points accross, It's aways a pleasure to watch.
@@gezobel It is a bit of problem with language isn't it? You can say table/happy clapper or you can describe a table/happy clapper. It's just a shorthand for concept. Descriptions take time, but maybe the description is necessary, because people have different understandings of proper definitions of things, and language drifts over time because of this.
As it goes, to paraphrase this:
“My dear Watson," said [Sherlock Holmes], "I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one's self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one's own powers.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Adventure of the Greek Interpreter (The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, #9 )
...whether you are a 'happy clapper' (sorry Gezobel) or a hopeless cynic, if your subjective take is not properly matched to objective reality, wrong is wrong.
Another good informative watch, gents. Hurry along with the Substack.
Brilliant guys, I have been told in the past I do over think Martin 😂🍀
If the cost of something is too high due to the losses then why do it? That is the headache for Clement and it comes down to Celtic having higher quality footballers. In that context then Clements high press tactic was too big a risk given the quality of the players at his disposal who aren't good at converting turnovers. I thought his best chance was to bunker in and roll the dice at 70 minutes, but even that is a risk with inferior players.
Brilliant really enjoyed this now show
EVEN CELTIC HAVE SOME CHAIRMAN MAO YEAR ZERO FANS.THIS IS A OUTSTANDING PODCAST.☘️☘️👍🙏👌🤗🤸♂️💚🤍🧡
Cheers Andy!
Brilliant lads! 🙌🙌🙌
thanks
Great insights guys, love listing to your insights based on data. I am a spreadsheet wånkêr.
The spreadsheet wankers united, will never be defeated.
My riposte got deleted the first time round for reason(s) goodness knows why, so I'll go again with spreadsheet wankers united, will never be defeated
Re Clement`s tactics - the operation was a (relative) success - but the patient died?
Aye John - tick
There is potentially another way The Rangers club could close the gap on us. They sort of use this approach already to an extent:
They could focus 100% on buying the sort of players who will win regular SPFL games 99 times out of 100. eg: highly athletic players, strong enough to survive plenty body contact. Set piece specialists, big fast centre backs who can defend aerially against target man strikers, poacher strikers (like shankland?) who will score bucketloads in low pressure situations; guys who can ALL play on synthetic pitches etc etc.
If they do this, and effectively guarantee (as much as possible) 100% wins against the rest of the league, that will give them a fighting chance of going into the Derby games with a bit of a lead. That would mean the Derby (and all its randomness, red cards, penalties, dodgy offsides etc) would conceivably count for a lot more.
Celtic look very strong right now, but most seasons our lightweight, undersized, technical but pretty unathletic team tend to struggle at some grounds (plastic pitches, tight parks etc). If The Rangers put all their resources into winning those games, they COULD be in a position whereby a win, a loss and 2 draws in the Derbies could see them finish ahead of us. A long shot I know, but something that could drag us into a sh!t fight, especially if (when) Rodgers moves on.
Thoughts?
Like it or not, both members of the duopoly do their shopping in a market where the purchases that are made, ONLY have flaws & often serious flaws in their game & how else can it be & sometimes ''good'' coaching can disguise and/or minimise to some extent, these flaws & often serious flaws, when playing in the woeful & dire SPL but of course, never as much when playing in Europe & particularly at the very highest level in Europe & where these flaws & often serious flaws, will be both ruthlessly exposed & fatally punished & where the Ibrokes lot are also seriously struggling & have been for a while, is that they are far more seriously weak & fragile mentally & that ONLY makes them a bit of a basket case as they are right now.
Brilliant show
“ YOU WERENT EVEN AT THE GAME JAMES! “
really sounded like Kevin Bridges ahah
Thought mibbe it wis a reference to the auld radio pundit James Sanderson.
@@stephencruickshanks3794 Showing your age with mention of that particular person purporting to be a serious football journo way back in the day....
Great show lads. Hail Hail.
Thanks Alex
I understand that Celtic are refusing the away fans ticket allocation for the post split fixture because it would be unfair while 'the ranjurs' can't guarantee a top 6 finish.
Ba Bum Tish
👏👏👏👏👏😂🤣
Great discussion. Hatate is a huge worry for me for obvious reasons. I’m convinced Engels will replace him and I also expect McGregor’s stats to improve once that happens. It’s very difficult to perform with a player who lacks physicality, pace and gives up possession in the manner Hatate does.
Celtic will have people @ Lennoxtown doing the same work as you do on the show, in breaking down our performance, & remember keyboard warriors always need a target, 2 shows a week 👍
twice in one week, luxury
pretty much agree with everything , but to add to alans point about the midfield battle. rangers mids had more touches , but celtics mids attack contribution enough for .9 goals, rangers mids .09 goals
so an order of magnitude difference
the only other observation i would make is about Celtics press. the pre season and league so far has been about tweaking celtics pressing set up for CL. understandable , because whether its the right model and how well its executed will make or break celitcs CL campaign. the press is kennedys love child from angeball, and its clear kennedy and rodgers have the slide rule out in terms of the precision required.
hatate is still a liability in the press , he didnt get his positioning right on a number of occasions. this rangers side doesnt have the transition threat of previous teams , and yet celtic got out of shape in their set up for a couple of periods during the game, it wasnt as bad as under angeball , because its clear a lot of thought has gone into how celtic run the rotations and when they restrict the inversion , and its very clear both scales and taylor are under very specific instructions as to where and when they contest possession , so considerable improvement . celltics ability to slow down the transition speed of the opposition when the tempo gets lifted is going to decide the outcome of the CL campaign, and i think that was rodgers learning from last CL, given what is an observable obsession with the press by him and kennedy.
Great comment btw
thanks - celtic also had more regains per pressure, significantly so
Thanks!
many thanks!
UA-cam watcher only and I don't do any social media so I'm insulated from the ad hominem stuff.
Ridiculous that James is having to put up with that, especially when it is coming from fellow Celtic supporters.
With the ownership and current ethos of that platform I do wonder if it is the best place to engage with any of the more nuanced analytics without being faced with the more neanderthal keyboard warriors.
I would be devastated if it was to cause any retrenchment in this podcast as it is the best deep dive out there and is a worthy complement to the daily shows such as ACSOM.
Keep up the good work guys and look forward to the future developments, cheers 👍
Fantastic Pod as always , Sorry to hear James is getting flak from the hard of thinking in our support base .
Why they feel people are interested in their opinions , is a mystery
thanks. We're niche and most couldn't care less but some feel the need to ram that down your throat. Such is social media.
All about opinions. HH 🍀🍀🍀
Unfortunately James you have, perhaps for the first time, come across the Celtic support group think phenomenon which no-one ever speaks of but permeates throughout the fan base during the entire history of the club, manifesting itself in football, the issues of the day and tragically, politics as well.
Ah yes, ''the Celtic support group think phenomenon'' & so what both angers & saddens me in this context, is the fact that the most horrific & vitriolic abuse James has received & indeed other ''Celtic Americans'' who support Celtic Football Club from the USA & who are viewed with more than just a little bit of patronising disdain as one ''Celtic American'' voiced it recently, is that also fuelling this most vitriolic abuse & hate will be for reasons completely NOTHING to do with football & of course, they will most vehemently & strenuously deny this fact, but they will be lying & we all know they are lying & continue to lie in this regard....
@@frankbrennan1619 always noticed this about our support. If you're not from Glasgow and Ireland then you're a second rate supporter who doesn't know the real 'Celtic' since moving to Melbourne and frequenting the Supporters clubs I've had a bit of this attitude but I'm 45 so can handle it. However, noticed that our new Aussie supporters (who have stayed even after Ange) have been getting it tight.
Some are lucky to choose Celtic and others are born into it, both are equal in my eyes.
Hail Hail
@christianharding3298 I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one and I am originally from Glasgow. I am atheist and have no affiliation whatsoever to any religion. In fact, I believe religion is responsible for many of humanity's ills, but that's not for discussion here. Its only relevance is that I was once banned from a Green Brigade forum shortly after their conception for being, in their eyes, anti-catholic, anti-Irish and a hun spy for pointing out to them in a respectful manner that the name "Green Brigade" was first used by a Protestant mercenary regiment to fight against Catholicism in mainland Europe. The vitriolic abuse I received was vile to put it mildly. Their fury and rage was every bit as ugly as that which we witness and condemn from the other side of the city. As far as they were concerned I was not a true Celtic supporter and never could be. Utter nonsense, of course, because not one of them could define what a true Celtic supporter is in the context of simply supporting a football team that I enjoy watching play football. Yes, even through the lean years. Hail, Hail.🍀
@@LordLauchlan My Lord, two things I would say, one, if different ethnic groups and cultures didn't have religion to fight about they would find something else and two, the green brigade are a danger to this club and what little reputation we have left. They must be removed immediately and permanently. The far left owns every institution in the UK and is eating the nation from the inside out. The neds in the north east corner are part of this unholy alliance. A bunch of new folk in the same place to form a new singing section and no one would notice the difference except we wouldn't be seen to be advancing the Iranian regime's geopolitical goals with THAT flag.
I'm sure it's not nice, but don't let the shitbags put you off, else you become another pandering fan pod. I appreciate what you do, keep it up.
Thanks David. I naively have higher expectations of fellow Celtic supporters. I realise this is foolish
James and Alan. Personal attacks should be ignored. “Empty vessels make the most noise” as the saying goes. Prior to watching The Huddle Breakdown I personally had little to no interest in analytics. Your content is insightful,
informative and very entertaining.
Keep up the great work guys
Totally agree about Hatate performance. He plays like that in Europe and we are losing.
Like it or not, it is ONLY these now very fast approaching EIGHT ''stand alone'' Champions League games from September through to January, that will be season defining for Rodgers certainly in the context of ALL of the signings made in this summer's transfer window are ALL his & at a cost of £32 million, so when they're on the pitch, they just MUST perform & for sure, it's not our back four or front three that will concern me the most when playing at the very highest level in Europe, but instead ONLY a middle three of now in his 32nd year Wee Callum & his best footballing days at this level now COMPLETELY behind him & the give the ball away too easily & too often Hatate & cut price Bernardo & that little trio will cost us dear.
So if I understand right, sevco’s tactics helped them edge some aspects in midfield, but weakened them everywhere else. (They may have the midfield to disrupt Celtic’s in some ways, but their defence isn’t capable of aligning with them when they do it.)
And from Celtics point of view those instances are small but significant enough to warrant discussion, though the wider context is domination.
The instances of the likes of Wee Callum, moody & sulky & now injury prone Hatate & cut price Bernardo giving the ball away too easily against the likes of Ross County & Motherwell is that it's almost certain they will NOT be fatally punished for doing so, whereas in the context of playing at the very highest level in Europe & as we'll be doing very shortly, just giving the ball away far too easily on ONLY two or three occasions is simply far too often & as our midfield trio will almost certainly do & then the follow on from that, is that it's almost certain we will be fatally punished for doing so & how else can it be when we're playing at the very highest level in Europe?
Nailed it
‘Call the roller of big cigars…’
Think the club could use you guys
we're in a lot of trouble if so!
On the contrary,think both your analysis would be invaluable @@alanmorrison5981
I would be curious to know how Jack Butland’s data holds up to the early big fee incoming hype perpetrated by the Rangers fans? Not a very good goalkeeper. An ageing Joe Hart appeared to be more secure in his performances in the latter months of last season.
AM and JJ covered that towards the end of last season - I believe he was just under the midpoint of SPFL GK's, with Hart a couple of places above him?
@@garymelrose9727 Broadly as per Statsbombs very good GK data set. Net/Net Hart and Butland profiled quite similarly - Butland maybe the better shot stopper, Hart making a better fist of it (lol) with ball at feet.
Excuse me, you forgot the £20 million valued bit before writing Butland....
Great podcast as always. People like simplicity and easy narratives unfortunately. Probably the reason why we have had 14 years of Tory rule, "ban the boats", mass austerity and potholes the depth of loch ness on every second street now.
Thanks James
And now we have winter fuel payments being taken from old age pensioners....
Love the detail guys...
Can you do an analytical analysis of the Lisbon lions please.
Always love your viewpoints, do you think perhaps you could analyse Spurs occasionally. It's Ange after all. And btw for your peace of mind Yeats once commented "all empty souls tend toward extreme opinions"
Not enough hours in the day for me John!
Great analysis but can you please cut out the unnecessary language. Otherwise awesome analysis. Particularly the Champions League focus
I dont think any of the starting 11 deserved to be dropped for the Derby regardless of the quality on the bench. Firstly because of their form and secondly for the most part due to their experience in the fixture. Im sure some of the new players will be starting games soon but i dont think the derby was the correct time to do it.
Specciest podcast I've ever listened to.
Cheers Gerry - objective smashed. Awesome!
Context is fine, but I think the emotions kicked in, but any comment made should be considered carefully first. I don’t think you thought the comment through IMO. Surely you would’ve known to expect that reaction, given the CONTEXT of what people just witnesses, AND REALLY REALLY enjoyed after weeks of stress about Transfers and our CL draw.
No, ''context is everything'' & for me certainly, James' comments are ALWAYS ''considered carefully first'' & the remarks that he made about the midfield battle that brought about all the vitriolic abuse & hate, were, of course, ONLY part of a wider discussion & other comments he made in this regard, but you know this already, or should do & even now after James has again further explained in greater depth & the fact too, as you well know, his original comments were snipped & edited & the person(s) doing the snipping & the editing & so ONLY taking the comments James made COMPLETELY out of context, knew EXACTLY what they were doing & the furore it would cause & yet still you make the comments that you do?
Why didn't we go for Hannibal from Man U 9.5mil a year older than engels and an out right number 10 that can cover on the wing , we got plenty of 8s at the club
Surely stats require the managers input to give overall context to the stats validity ?
For example players positioning on and off the ball.
The managers instructions to players while in possession.
The pattern of play he expects his team to conduct while in possession.
Without you knowing those intentions then how can you validate or give context to those stats.
They're opinions unless validated by the coach.
That's even before you even factor in refereeing bias or other none playing officials interference in game.
So we shouldn't comment? Rodgers tells us a lot in his interviews plus watching multiple games with an analytical head on reveals intent
@alanmorrison5981
I'm not saying that..
But the stats can't be definitive without coach oversight.
For example:
The manager instructs his midfield to use the left wing in all forward attack..
Does that mean that right winger is pants.
A simple example I know, but some people could wrongly perceive the right wingers' lack of involvement as having a poor or quiet game.
@@WildWestlad I get you. Any additional context helps. I do believe we should at least try and make sense of it. The quality of the analysis is for others to judge accordingly.
@alanmorrison5981
Of course Alan.
I really enjoy the work you guys do.
Stats definitely have a place in the game in relation to predictors and analysis.
Especially in player procurement.
For example, Tavernier goals for make him look like a world beating RB.
But once you do a deep dive and add context to the Stats then you realise he's a sevco player that benefitted from dodgy refereeing decisions in the forward areas and that he's rank rotten as a full back.
Thats Stats for you 🤣🤣🤣
@@WildWestlad Indeed - big difference between "stats / data" and analysis
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding, To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean, No one has seen them made or heard them made, But at spring mending-time we find them there.
Er....excuse me ,Dallas is a nice wee village a few miles from me here in Elgin .I would bet it's been in existence for longer than that soap opera destination in the US of A 🧐.....😂🍀💚🇮🇪 Dallas , unfortunately is very much Scottish.
@@beautifulgame7821 - Wee Jock Rab Ewing you mean? 👍😂🤣
Confused by what they are talking about at the start. Who has been attacking them on social media? this something on twitter? I must have missed this.
There was a clip taken from the last podcast of James saying Rangers won the midfield battle, and there was an uproar. The clip, however, cut off before the context was provided.
Yes. A very snidey thing to do.The person who clipped it obviously knew what was said before & after but chose to clip that specific bit.
He obviously has a problem with James but rather than engage with some honesty and have a debate, he chose instead to engage in the sort of slimy tactics that the tabloid press engage in.
Incredible, probably they are just jealous. This is comfortably the best podcast on Celtic.
wow where is all this crazy action happening? on X?
Don't sweat it - the quality nerdiness is all here
Statistically speaking, what percentage of James's sentences does he actually end up completing, and what is the average time he takes to get to the point? Just asking...
It would be nice to think that James' comment of '' the tactics won the battle, the individuals did NOT'' would make his most abusive critics stop & think even for just a moment, about the ''winning of the midfield battle'' in the Glasgow derby, but probably not in the context of their completely blind & slavish support for the likes of Wee Callum, moody & sulky & now injury prone Hatate & cut price Bernardo & the fact that they can get COMPLETELY away with giving the ball away too easily and/or too often against the likes of Ross County & Motherwell & even now our bitterest rivals, whereas when you're playing at the very highest level in Europe, as we're just about to start doing in EIGHT ''stand alone games'' you ONLY ever get fatally punished, but probably not.
So do Celtic have people in place that do this type of analysis? I really hope so but am not confident
they do Martin
what is the substack
Substack is a writing and pod hosting platform. We are building our own Huddle Breakdown site within that platform. It isn't "open to the public" yet. Watch this space. Also, we'll try and provide guidance on how to join.
What IS a substack? Heard the word mentioned in a politics pod and I have no idea what it is. I assume it is a blog, but where?
Jamesy lad its baw hair 😂
👍
To be honest, Scottish people will simply ‘call out’ things they don’t like or agree with; It’s not really a ‘passive aggressive’ culture. Nothing groundbreaking about that, let’s be honest.
8:46 is Xg a subjective statistic? Trying to ascertain how different stat providers can vary so wildly.
I’d also like to know if the Matondo header was included.
He was clearly offside but he headed it past the post and the onfield decision was a goal kick to Celtic.
So his header “counted” so to speak because VAR cannot get involved for goal kicks. But if he’d scored the header then surely VAR would have chopped it off?
So maybe some stats providers have included that chance whilst others have not?
@@Mantis_Toboggan_MD. good point.
Some models are way more sophisticated in terms of what they capture. A basic xG model just looks at where the shot is taken and assigns it a probability of ending in a goal - there is no other information in there.
Statsbomb's model is at the other end of the scale. Not only does it capture where a shot was taken, it takes into account the goalkeepers position, where the other players are positioned relative to the shot, the height of the ball (I.e. a cutback along the ground is easier to score than a drilled pass 2 yards off the ground that the receiving player needs to volley), as well as the velocity of the actual shot.
Basic xG models are still useful but the more sophisticated ones ala Statsbomb provide more accurate and richer information.
@@graftingdiamond6775that’s an incredibly complex scenario with all the factors involving statbomb’s model, I’m presuming that these factors are still determined by a human based on what they’re seeing as the play takes shape?
@@graftingdiamond6775 Or "chase every decreasing decimal points that massively increase complexity without adding to narrative clarity"
I can do nerdy. 😅
I think you just neglect that word choice is as important as the robustness of the data sets. won the midfield is clearly an ambiguous statement that can go a lot further than what you mean. and most people at least like to think they have better literacy than numeracy because they use it more. so to talk to them you need to get better at sports vernacular. or maybe you don't want to talk to them since twitter is stormfront now.
One of the aims of the Thursday Extra Time will be to allow those debates to breathe and get all that context out
Never engage with bad actors, it is pointless and makes it look like you are on the same level when you are not. Stormfront Twitterers are sturm und drang fascists and fascists are bad actors.
@@marknugent9851 To my shame i neglect that sometimes.
Roses are reddish, violets are bluish. If it weren’t for Christmas we’d all be Jewish (John Cooper Clarke)
The bard of Salford - genius
@@alanmorrison5981 Thanks Alan. Both of you please keep up the excellent work. I noticed that Engels came on as a sub for Belgium tonight. I suspect given his transfer fee and the fact he’s now the highest earner by a significant margin he’ll replace Hatate imminently. No harm to Hatate but I think that’ll improve our possession based game significantly.
Hh troops 💚☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️
Thinking man’s podcast? When do we get the thinking woman’s podcast? Why can’t we have a thinking person’s podcast?
Hi Joseph. I said the thinking fans podcast. Probably my accent, I’m afraid. Cheers 👍
Gloating over a club that's been in the league for 8 years 😂
but, but, big club Timmy
What happened to my comment? I talked astrophysics; gave poetry, philosophy, science, Russian literature and bible quotes the whole 9. Was it the anti-Trump-y bit?
I tried to take that section out and re-post, still didn't take. Weird.
@@marknugent9851 Sounds like a show to itself
@@alanmorrison5981 lol, it was and I hanged... hung (which one is right?) a lamp on it too. Great minds think alike or fools seldom differ?
Oh and the Scottish are a working/dole-class Society. Science, numbers, ‘fancy talk’ is an automatic turn-off. And that’s whats disappointing about our Culture. Be open minded.
I haven't lived in Scotland for a long long time. One aspect i have never missed is an inherent inverted snobbery. Scots are remarkable for a small race and should celebrate that fact.
@@alanmorrison5981 I always remember Sir Billy Connolly talking aboot him visiting Glasgow after he had moved to London & when he was still on the drink & of course, when you're back in Glasvegas, where else are you going, other than going doon the pub with some of the old pals from back in the day & so if he just bought his round of drinks, there was all the talk of him being a tight, miserable, bastard, when it was ONLY he who had far more money than they all had & then on his next visit & when he would be buying the drinks all night & so them NEVER having to put their hands in their pockets, it wis noo ONLY a case of him being a flash bastard & flashing his money all aboot in their faces!!!
The host Martin, thought a lot and spoke constantly for 1st 6mins. Sorry not tuning in for his podcast. I thought he ruined the podcast with the Rangers analyst also.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who is holding people at gunpoint and forcing them to watch this podcast?
He’s just learning mate, nobody forcing you to watch. Agree though he needs to relax abit and not jump in so much
@@con999t I'm confident Martin will fairly soon start to ''settle down'' but on this occasion the old farts sitting either side of him had that slightly glazed look at the ramblings from our dear old, now clean shaven, Martin Murphy, but still looking a bit like the infamous & notorious Martin Stone and/or Sammy Wilson & completely understandably too, even though Martin ONLY wanted to convey his sheer, understandable, joy of being one of the privileged 60,000 at Celtic Park to witness the 3-0 thumping of our bitterest rivals & of course, in an environment where as James said, there would be no ''objective'' analysis of the stats & data as to how individuals actually performed in ''winning the midfield battle.''
I think Martin is a just a bit nervous. Give him a bit to get settled and I'm sure he will calm down. I felt the same way tbh but we need to be more generous, we are all humans.
Thanks
v kind x