How to set a subwoofer's crossover
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- When setting a subwoofer up should its frequency limits match those of the main speaker or lower or higher? This is a question asked a lot and Paul helps us understand the intricacies of the all-important setup process. Have a question you want to ask Paul? www.psaudio.com...
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I like how clear you are. And so calm. I love old people, they know how to explain stuff. Im subscribing.
You should work in a senior home.
Older, not old.
Whoa now!
All I read was that Paul is old. Ha, ha. I’ll bet that’s all he read too.
Not the most polite way of complimenting someone.....
Agree. Boz Scaggs, Thanks to you, is one of my favorites along with Long after you're gone by Chris Jones. Excellent for revealing the flaws in systems or the greatness of a setup.
Simple and effective - I've used this method to set a sub's crossover for years and it's about as good as it's going to get.
Just wanna put my favourite tracks for trying out speakers etc out:
Gaslighting Abbie - Steely Dan
Telegraph Road - Dire Straits
Big BW - Fat Freddy's Drop
Great video as usual. Folks also need to consider the level control because it will affect the frequency response as well depending on the overall response of the subwoofer and room gain. Remember that there are plenty of frequency generator apps available that you can use to do a sweep and preliminary dial- in of your level and crossover, then play your known tracks and tweak from there. This is the method I have used the last couple of years and it is damned close every single time. Thanks again Paul
Hello there mister Paul! I heard the track, very very good track, this note goes down about 40Hz! Got my sub crossover almost perfect now!Thanx!
I used the Boz Scaggs song to setup my sub and I’m loving for all my music.
Thankyou good sir!
Googled Pauls pics. Nice abs there paul! 😂
lol!
This is so correct, the amount of people i know that just crank the subwoofer, this totally ruins everything, its all about balance, people forget bass is in stereo too! you need two subs set up correctly to get the best sound.
Going Mobile by The Who is my go to. Tough to find a mix that doesn't sound good if this does.
If more modern music is more to your ear, I'd consider anything produced by Ronson, Danger Mouse like "Turn the Light On" by Karen O or "California" by Grimes.
That was good advice on how to find where the crossover should overlap.
Without knowing enough, I had my sub crossover set to 40Hz... my Polk Audio Bookshelf speakers are only rated to 60Hz. I've been missing all sorts of frequencies in between. Should have known better, logically, just never thought about it. Thanks for this!
Indeed! It's easy to set the low pass filter too high and have the sub eat up the mid range but it's just as easy to the LPF too low and then you start LOSING music from your system!!
''Thanks to you'' Paul is everyone on UA-cam is searching for this song😀 and comment on it.
What a wonderful video. Thanks for explaining it in a such a simple manner.
Hey, it's Mr. Rogers. Thanks for the video lesson. 👍😁
In my setup the low pass om my sub is set to about 60Hz and my speakers are rated 32-42.000Hz (+/- 3db) and are offcourse not cut off by any high pass filter. But because of the room etc i don't get much bass from the speakers that low. So after plaging around with the low pass I found this was the best setting for me and my setup in the room I have.
i'll bet you'd love a subpac m2x , i can feel the bass in your voice in my back
i have this thing set to 220hz on my soundblaster ae5 to get a fuller bass at lower volumes ,
while turning down the beast itself cause it just blows out your back if you turn up with so much frequency
playing guitar with a subwoofer on your back and plucking a low E while you play over it , is the most amazing experience you'll ever have
to feel what you play in your whole body , it also tells you if you plucked the string in the right way cause you feel immediately if you're playing to hard
it's a great tool to help your playing
watching just a clip of someone talk , like yours , gives a new dimension cause i can feel the bass your voice
a movie , is just mind blowing and makes you stay hooked into the story
but playing games , you can feel enemies when they're in the building or outside , by the amount of bass you feel , it's just so real
this thing has some Power and i'll bet with a little bit of a fiddle , you could set it just right for what ever your favourite music is
In my experience many bookshelf speakers rated range is wrong. My current speakers are rated for 60hz-35kz and they can't produce anything lower than 75 hz, so I set the crossover to 80 hz, which is a common cross-over point.
I always take the numbers on the box as a -20dB number. So if it says 40Hz on the box, I'm reading that as "won't reach peak efficiency under ~140Hz (12dB per octave cut off)". So on a maximum power half sine it could probably output 40Hz, but in reality, you are never going to hear that.
It's like those daft PMPO numbers on "gamer" speakers. They're equally daft. Something powered by a wall wart that draws less than half an amp from the wall, can't possibly sustain 1500W output for any relevant kind of time.
I agree. Speakers with a 6.5" woofer usually don't have usefully loud audio below 50hz. No point in straining the smaller speakers...let the sub do the work below 80hz.
@@scottlowell493
There is a misconception among some that wherever you set a sub's crossover, anything below that is not passed onto the main speakers.. Fact is, with any real sub the full frequency spectrum is always passed onto the mains..... no matter at what hz you set you sub's crass over at
Barb5001 I am using a dbx PA2 active crossover for the reason you described. It can do automatic room acoustic eq adjustment too. It is usually used for live sound or in theatre and it is not an audiophile equipment, but it is worst not having it.
MY kilpsch are very good i have a subwoofer kilpsch to and i have the sub on LFE -120 ALL THE TIME WITH THIS CROSSOER THE IS VERY GOOD WITH OUT ANY DISTORTION ON MY SPEAKERS AN SUBWOOFER TO
That definitely did help, thank you Paul!
I too have bookshelf speakers with the bass rated around 80 Hz. I set my woofer crossover point "by ear" and it was at 120 Hz.
My mains have an F3 of 45Hz, so I set my sub at the lowest they would go at 50Hz. That seems to provide pretty flat response as long as you set the volume of the sub's amp correctly. It sounds like it's a natural extension of the mains. My Mains are a pair of two way speakers with 7" Focal Kevlar woofers and Focal inverted acid etched dome tweeters. The sub is an NHT 1259 in a sealed box with a QTS of .81. That gives it a bump around 50 Hz, with tones of bass extension down to an F3 of 23Hz. At -6db they are done around 15Hz keeping things pretty well audible from 20 to 25KHz for the system. When I auditioned the system at my friends' shop they had the two ways hooked up to a tube amp that I wish I could afford. With the faceted cabinets I walked between the speakers trying to figure out which ones were playing as the diffraction was awesome!
I wish my Denon Reciever did as well, but you get what you pay for, and I'm not really disappointed with the Denon, nor would I have any reason to be if I hadn't heard what they sounded like with those tube amps.
I have found that crossing over in one octave works best for me. Main speakers go down to 40Hz ( -3db ), sub ( 16in Altec Lansing theater driver ) is -3db at 20Hz so the sub starts making it's entrance at 80Hz. By the time things get to 40Hz ( crossover Octave is 40Hz -> 80Hz ) the sub has taken over the load and the mains are outta there.
I have a Marantz PM7000N and it has a LPF 40,60,80,100,120 for sub output. I am aslo running a BK Electronics sub and only want to use this for 2 channel stereo use. Should I set the Marantz to 120 and let the Sub control the LPF as it has a more accurate and variable adjustment?
Good info. Thanks for sharing.
Run a pair of subs not just one and this process is way, way smoother. Jim Smith (Get Better Sound) told me the following: either 2 subs or NONE!
Would you ever run high pass on floorstanders if they go to 30 hz ?
Can I adjust crossover on the subwoofer itself if the subwoofer is connected via LFE input?
Connected a sub today, beside the crossover be careful with the phase, so important.
Cool video again mr. McGowan
Ive been looking for a good video on this for a long time!
I ran line level to sub, then from sub to my active speakers 39hz-25khz. I have a 12" sub, my monitors have a 7" woofer. Connecting it this way caused my subwoofer to use it's internal crossover and high passed 80hz+ to monitors. The sub played everything 80hz and below. The blend was awful!!
I ended up using analog audio splitters. one went to sub, other went to monitors. I set my sub to around 42hz. My monitors now played at their full range. OMG, sooooo much better. The sub now only plays frequencies the monitors can't play. Opened up my monitors like pores in a suana.
Really helpful explanation - thanks Paul!
20hz overlap is always good
Paul this is the best advice I’ve ever heard, when it comes to subs and crossovers. A big thank you Paul, I trust your opinion very much.
I would just add a bit to this and say make sure the system has been playing for a while first. My sub blends in seamlessly once it is all warmed up but sounds overpowered if the system all starts up cold until it warms up.
so the crossover setting on my receiver should match the low pass filter frequency on the back of the sub?
Anyone know the timestamp of the note he is talking about for the Boz Skaggs track thanks to you he mentions?
My speakers has a frequency range of 33hz-50khz(-6db) and a frequency response of 48hz-28khz(+\-3db) It also says “typical in-room bass response 27hz(-6db). What does this mean for optimal low pass filter setting on my subs? I’d like some input cause I don’t really trust my ears.
Hahah I use that track for tuning bass on headphones too. :P I know EXACTLY which part you're talking about. 0:25 seconds into the sound, the bass just goes deeeeeeep, rolls off and tickles the ear if properly done, and truly if done properly and if the sub bass sounds good on that, it sounds good on everything. If it's a little boomy on it, it's boomy elsewhere too. Earth Song by MJ also has extremely deep bass sections and I use a couple of songs from my country too that nobody here probably heard of. :P
Please could someone help on my Subway for I have a switch that says crossover out or in I have it set to out. I don't know what I should have to set for though.
Cut off 80Hz Tune in with spectrum analyzer at different volume tuning. Don't filter your speakers with high pass. Use sweeping frequency runs left and right.
Paul is never going to a dub step club.
American Patriot neighter do i
Paul, so glad to be suscribed to your chanell. God bless and thanks for the tips!:)
I just listened to a new (actually from 1964) Oscar Peterson album and the sound of the upright base was very distinct and pleasing. I’m using JBL 890 speakers and Polk 505 subs driven by an Emotiva 450 watt amp.
In my woofer there is crossover knob that can be switch between off and full, in which position should I put that??! Pls help
One more song suggestion for setting up a sub. Tracy Chapman - Give Me One Reason
I'd add to this short list a song by Ten Years After: I don't know that you don't know my name. At the end there is a synth swipe that goes really low.
So, I have a question: I was trying to listen out for the low note in that Boz Scaggs song. At around 24 seconds it does go really low (bass low, now volume low), and there's a whoomp, and then there's total silence for a second before the singing starts.
I can hear the really low note, and I assume the moment of silence afterwards is intentional, and is not the "missing note"?
I assume this because I can hear 27Hz when I generate it in Audacity, and the sub is really moving, but in the song my sub just totally stops for the moment of silence.
I'm using a Mordaunt Short 309i sub.
I'm having trouble over setting overlap. My AVR always sets a cutoff for front speakers. Even if I increase the subwoofer's crossover above the that cutoff frequency, it doesn't seem to send any signal to subwoofer below that cutoff frequency.
As an example. front speakers are set to 100Hz from AVR. Even I set subwoofer to 200Hz, it doesn't seem subwoofer gets any signal over 100Hz mark. I'm using subwoofer pre out.
Are the speakers set to "big"? If so, set them to "small".
@@Sbibmaster yes it was so to big. I also find out that trick later. Thanks for tip
How many best lpf for subwoofer safe , what 80hz for safe ?
The in-room -6dB response of the speakers.
If I had the money I would buy those Polk Audio 2500 dollar speakers so sick
Hi Paul. I really love your videos, very helpful, IMAX Cinemas take their subs. down as low as 20Hz where most cinemas go down to 40 Hz, is 20Hz realistic for home theaters, or would that be too costly. Is that a realistic goal to aim for?
For home theater, absolutely. Check out the DIY speakers & subwoofers thread on AVS forums. I just built a 22” cube w/ a 15” Dayton 390HO that plays to 21Hz for a little less than $250. A lot of people on there shoot for single digits Hz.
Is it preferred to change the settings in the amp or should it be set via the actual dial on the sub? I don't run my sub off the front speakers.
Depends on how you hook up your sub. If it is connected through an RCA cable(s) to a dedicated port (s) on the amp or receiver, then set the crossover through the amp, if you use banana plugs to hookup the sub to the R/L speaker out ports then the signal is routed through the speaker out in the sub after the low frequencies are cut off by the sub, then use the dial on the back of the sub.
I do both. but don't let it get away from you. wright down what the settings are before you start. and if you do this it will take time and try to work with one or two songs like Mr McGowan said. and make sure your format you are playing is clean . use a laptop or as I do a crome cast with my tab 7 from Samsung.and I use youtube or stream from pandora
lovejago. Good info!! Im going to try that 👍
I have extremely expressive speakers, they would define a low note piano sound if it were there.
I agree with Doodle Master (below) it AIN'T there.
Is it possibly another Boz Scaggs track
IF it is on "thanks to you" whereabouts on the track would I find it?
Thanks!
My problem with my little 2.1 set, is you have to set the sub volume and cross differently for each album, for UA-cam every song.
UA-cam, that's how you are listening to music. Terrible.
L Roy.......drop and give me 20
If you use youtube for songs atleast try to use quality videos like music videos. Most music uploaded to youtube has super shitty quality and youll never know if thats all youve ever listened from.
Hello Paul 😁💖
I know it's been a long time, but I've got two Q's:
First of all, i heard in some video that any frequency under about 50hz in a room, is un noticeable for the direction of the source.
So how can you hear if the sound is coming from the sub or from the speakers?
And that's my scond thing: I think you have to relate to the volume Adjustment of the sub as well. Otherwise it's pointless.
So maybe you can make another video to explain this (sub)ject... again.😊
Thanks allot and keep up the good work 👍
and that very good question stayed unanswered...
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I would act as if it was a total mystery for me why people don't seem to get the idea behind subwoofers, but i guess i understand. As most of those monsters cost more or less the entirety of the sound system again, people just instinctively want to get something outstanding for their money and deliberately over-tune it without realizing that leads to unrealistic coverage of the spectrum... such a shame those tiny tweeters are sufficient to cover the high ends, but the low ends require these heavy weights.
Wow, that’s a kingly chair 😁
Hi Paul, Do you recommend to use a sub with Golden Ears Reference speakers or isn"t it needed? Thanks
Hi Mark Thanks for your input, your answer is exactly what I thought also.
Brett Spicer that’s ridiculous, do not let one option sway you a certain direction. I’d very much look into a subwoofer even if my towers had a powered woofer..unless you’re room is tiny I’d try a nice ported sub like Rythmik. Also congrats on your Golden Ears, great speakers.
googoo gjoob Yeah okay. Great explanation. What subs do you own? I guarantee I have far more knowledge on this subject than you based on your nongermane; condescending statement.
googoo gjoob You’re joking right, you have two “nice ported subs” that actually applies to my statement..also just because something is universally agreed upon doesn’t mean it’s a universal statement. Placement, EQ/PEQ/DSP, & integration is far more essential than just choosing an overpriced sealed sub from REL that only plays to 40-35Hz.
Now to your credit you do own a very nice system..I’m not a fan of B&W imo but, that’s irrelevant.
Regarding ported subs, just because they can play down to 20Hz doesn’t correlate to music because as you know most doesn’t have anything below 30Hz. Muddy bass sounds more like a time alignment issue rather than just having a “ported sub”.
Another universally agreed upon statement is REL, after being sold 20,000x times is nothing like the brand it used to be. No offense to you owning it but, IMHO a ported servo from Rythmik like the FXV15/FV15HP would be a much better way to spend his money.
My main point is OP could accentuate the lower end w/ a quality sub rather than making a powered woofer in his mains do all the heavy lifting. I guarantee they cannot produce low end in that enclosure anywhere near reference without complete distortion.
Mark First, I replied to two comments..hardly answering almost everybody.
Also, the fact that you’re associating age & occupations to intelligence proves your thought practices. I’ve relayed quite searchable information for the OP to make his own informed decision.
What have you contributed to the discussion besides belittling another audio fan for no apparent reason? If you disagree with something I have stated, say so. Don’t try to mock me & provoke a response..do something helpful like have a constructive conversation rather than trying to entice an argument.
150 hertz, good point to start. I don't like subs my experience with hasn't been good. I don't like the boomy sound they produce. My acoustics suck though in all fairness. Paul is correct its hit or miss, you have to know what sounds you prefer.
Paul, I have a question for you. I asked the same thing after another of your videos, but I guess you never saw my question. In your opinion, and given a certain budget, would I be better off buying a pair of lesser quality subwoofers, or a single subwoofer of higher quality? In other words, are two better than one even if that one costs as much as the two combined? In particular, I have in mind perhaps two REL S/5 SHO at $2600 each, or a single REL G1 Mark II at $5500. Oh, and my speakers are B&W 804 that I bought about twenty years ago. I know how much you like those! I could possibly forgo the subwoofers and instead upgrade my main speakers to something like the Magico A3, but that would mean extra chores around the house and extra good behavior for months until the sticker shock wears off my wife. Is it worth it?
Brian Moore Absolutely get the biggest & best subwoofer you can afford atm then down the road if you still think you need duals, get an identical one. IMHO you’d be wasting soooo much money looking at those. You should look at PSA(Power sound audio), JTR, Rythmik, even a Monoprice Monolith 15 would destroy those REL’s for only $1300. I’d personally start with PSA, most of the time the owner will answer the phone or the live chat on their website.. Tom Vodhanel, he’s the “V” in SVS.
Brian Moore, I hope Paul answers this for you.
I say: Go for dual REL subs!
I've tried singles and you can always tell, unless it's in the corner between the speakers ;-)
Check out Jim Smith's book: Get Better Sound?
Carlito Melon Can tell what? Unless OP has a measurement microphone & a program like REW or the one from spectrum labs this is a moot point.
Sure dual subs normally is a better idea but, two lesser subs rather than one good sub..no.
Now the thing about dual subs is it adds 3dB & also flattens out the frequency response-helps with nulls & room modes but, unless you can measure your placement to optimize it, check that polarity, & time align the subs to the mains, you’ll just end up hindering your frequency response creating countless dips & also creating phase issues.
REL is nothing like it used to be, after being sold 20,000 they aren’t worth anything like they price there products for. You could get double the performance for half the price from PSA or Rythmik.
Thank you both for your replies. I sent an email to Paul and he did reply to it this morning. This is what he said:
"I would always prefer to go with two RELs, one for the left and one for the right, than one bigger one. You’ll get better imaging and a more realistic soundstage."
Thanks, too, for the recommendations for different brands like the SVS subwoofers. I had never heard of those before. JL Audio is another good brand that I need to consider. I have been reading a lot lately and I have found advice for one subwoofer or two, and some even say to avoid subwoofers altogether. I suppose it all boils down to personal opinions and taste. Thanks again to both of you. Now I have a lot of things to consider.
@@b.8972
Imaging.
Yes I use DSP for one system.
See Paul's reply to the OP
;-)
Paul i have to disagree with you, the dcm kx12 series 2 do not NEED a sub woofer. You can ask my neighbors.
My dad has a set of those that he’s about to throw away
@@ITouchtrees why?
Tover Yonder because he has long since upgraded all the rooms in his house. And the dcm kx12s are too big even for his garage. They are still in perfect shape.. I almost feel bad that he’s getting rid of them
@@ITouchtrees are you in Texas? i would happily haul that garbage off for free
Tover Yonder he lives in Ohio. They’d be free, but I’m assuming shipping would be stupid
I'm going with 100hz.
or you measure you room and hide the crossover in a dip of the room response..
Thanks remember to use your ears.
please add a compression in your audio in your video my ears are herting (sudden peak sound)
You could connect a 8 or 10 ohm 20 watt resistor from speaker terminals to the subwoofer, lower the Frequency coming into the subwoofer will lower the overall frequency coming out and you turn the subwoofer up will give it more energy to the subwoofer driver better response time. Why don't you use a Mini DSP ASP is the best solution.
Q: If a girl wants it in the woofer, how do you know? Do I just stick my tweeter in and hope for the best?
Go troll on some video made for your age, like Teletubbies. ;)
Col. Angus between his statement & your recommendation I think the combination would get a little creepy, real fast. ;)
@@ColAngus Lighten up...it's a joke! Don't take this hobby so seriously🙄