Subwoofer placement and settings
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Subwoofers can add a lot to the credibility of a stereo system when placed well, using the right cross-over frequency and set at the appropriate output level. Let’s see how that is done.
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How comprehensive and simple to understand your video is ! Amazed each time by your knowledge and your educational talent !
So nice of you
That was the most comprehensive video I’ve watched on subwoofer set up and placement. Thank you Hans.
👍🏼
Prior to watching this tutorial (simply one of the best), confirms my many trial and error fiddling around with my custom amp, subwoofer(s) - ala Frankenstein system. Am so satisfied with the result. Thank you much!
I could watch this man talk all day. Great info. Thanks buddy!
Wow, thanks!
I think this is one of the best subwoofer explanation videos i have seen. Thanks
The dual subwoofer crawl, never heard that explained so well before, hmm I’m going to have to try this, thanks!
this is hands down the best tutorial for setting up the sub correctly for SQ. You gave a reason behind everything instead of just "here, just do this and you'll be good"
most exclusive, informative tutorial about subwoofer. thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very true about not realising how much a sub adds to the landscape until you switch it off
Veel geleerd in deze video! Ik heb een PrimaLuna buizenversterker en een set Martin Logan Scenario elektrostaten en ik zoek een subwoofer voor wat extra laag voor bepaalde muziek. Nu weet ik een beetje waar ik op moet letten. Thx Hans!
My pleasure.
Best explanation EVER! Hats off to you Sir!!
🙏
Fantastic video. Very informative. Also quite technical but explained well for the novice.
Many Thanks
👍🏼
Thank you Hans, I’m looking to compliment my Yamaha bookshelf NS 144s with a Yamaha YST series 8” sub for a richer more extended bottom end. After watching this, I think ready to take the plunge...
Reset my dual RELs .
Thanks for the advice.
I took a BASSline listen to my KEF LS50s without subs as a reference first. They're amazing on their own (Ravi Coltrane - Still Life).
Then I did each sub separately. Then turned both on. SUBtlety is the key ;-)
When turning off both subs I was shocked by the sudden lack of low end weight.
Best subwoofer video ever. Seriously.
Glad you think so!
My main loudspeakers are often thought to be quite difficult to integrate with a subwoofer, Quad electrostatics. I've had 57s, 63s and now 2812s. I've tried a few things over the years, and with mixed results.
The 2812s have the Quad L-series (12" version) as their subwoofer. Whilst I bought this to accompny my TV room Quad 9L monitors, moving it to my larger music room I found it not too difficult to integrate with the electrostatics. The secret is exactly as you recomended for set-up. The Quads go down lower than people think..about 38-40hz at -3db depending on position - I have them well out from the back wall (well damped with LP racks) but only 4" in from the side walls (this is possible with the Quads as they do not radiate sidewrds much). I have the Quad sub set to roll off at 45 -3db, so really it only 'reinforces' the bass which, being true dipole from the electrostatic panels is truly excellent in quality - and quite unlike 'box' speakers' bass.
Overall, after 45 years of looking for the perfect system for orchestral and chamber music....I think I've found it - the 'feeling' of being in the concert hall is greatly enhanced by having the bass extended in this way.
Enjoy the music
Several good tips and tricks! Several I have not heard before during my own 24 years of Hi-Fi intrest. Thanks, I will use this when mating my new subs with my system.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Hans. The sub woofer crawl is the most useful tool I have found with sub integration.
I have a sistem similar to your setup 3... very pleasent but ... often leveling cross and vol in the sub.
Very useful vid
Thanks a lot Hans 👍
I managed to get «even» bass with the sub-woofer crawl. But, when I got the second sub-woofer, I didn't know what to do. Even though, I'm happy know; your technique, the double crawl, might be easier and a very good the solution. Thank you Hans.
I dont understand, I do a sub crawl, and then where there is the best bass, THats where i re-place the subwoofer there?? Or thats just my listening position from now on?
Thanks for this and perfect timing as i just got a sub a week ago. Very good explanation on how to do it and will re-do my placement and setting following this.
This is a really great video! Thank you so much. I follow you from Italy. I get really helpful information from you (and practice my poor English). "See" you soon. Ciao
Awesome! Thank you!
Hi Hans. Brilliant video. I have very good experience placing my subs right next to my main speakers. Very carefully I place them with the sub speaker units exactly the same distance from my listening position as the midrange / bass drivers of the main speakers. You feel the kick/beat/energy mediately. Oh, yes, and the room modes… But this is here MiniDSP and Dirac comes in and sort things out :-)
How big of a difference did the mini DSP make? That’s my next step.
@@woohunter1 I love the MiniDSP SHD. When switching from M2TECH HIFACE 2 the sound clearly improved in all aspects. All the DSP stuff is very versatile. I would have liked more channels though, but then I would need more DACs. ButButBut the most important to me is Dirac. It turned my living room from bright, hash and unlivable to the very opposite. It’s a never-look-back kind of thing and as good as Hans’ says in his splendid videos
Many thanks for great tutorial. I’m using DSP subwoofer, but will test A/B using manual settings.
My pleasure.
Send you $11.61 euros 💶 for your tips 🙏🏻
Thanks!!
That was well thought out and explained on this sometimes confusing topic. I have discontinued using my sub but will give it another try. I do recall your "room crawl" for speaker placement and I agree would be of benefit here. I think my crossover is between 60 & 80 hz with gain set to be at threshold of not being audible. It is filling missing parts without stepping on main system harmonics.
Good video! Thanks!!
My pleasure
the best review for sound set up
Thanks!
Thank you too
Very clear and helpfull! Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
what a great video, thank you
Good discourse and good details.
Thanks for that lesson!
Could you make a video regarding the response (post-pulse reaction) of subwoofers? How to find a sub whith a quick response and quick decay and what about the relation between diameter and stroke of the membrane. Thank you in advance.
Merci c'est très instructif.
Avec plaisir
So here we go. Ordered my first subwoofer this morning -REL 5ti.
Have fun!
This is so good 👍
Thanks!
Great Video Hans nice tips no one every talked helps a lot
From 25-100 what is a single or dual sub better to have front facing or downward firing subs
Also has anyone tried a mixture of Hframe subs and sealed together best of both worlds does it make sense
I have not reviewed subs recently so I can’t say
Very good and straight forward, understandable overview of how to setup and integrate a subwoofer. Hans, thank you very much for another great video.
I have a question: Are standing waves independent of placement, as they are given by the room dimensions / frequency only? Or does the placement of the woofer create comb filters (through reflecting the same frequency back into the room, but messing up the timing and therefore creating other dips and peaks), and they influence the (fundamental) standing waves? Or are comb filters somehow independent of the room standing waves? It's a question I'm struggling with for some time now and maybe you can shed light on this in an understandable answer to my personal audio mystery? Thanks a lot!
The placement of your subwoofer/s in your room will determine the location of the standing waves.
Use water in a bath as a visual example. Allow a droplet of water to fall into the bath and note the reflection points in the water.
Allow the water to settle then repeat the experiment but this time, select a different location to drop the droplet. You will see the waves hit the walls of the bath in a different way.
It's the same in your room except, in your room, the soundwaves are propagating in a 3D environment.
There's lots to learn about this. I find it really enjoyable to play around with subwoofer position and use Room EQ Wizard to determine the best location.
Good luck with your endeavours. 👍
Man, can you just come over and do it for me? I have beer:)
I could have a day job doing that😀
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I bet haha!
I have two Klipsch rs112 in the Back behind me.. diagonal or Mid Wall is possible but not in the front because of Screen Height
Subs don’t need to be in front of you. Our hearing can’t hear direction at those low frequencies.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel but i feel it more from behind ..maybe have to Check Phase and volume.Maybe trying one 0 Phase and the other 180.Both are behind the Couch 90cm from the Side Walls and 12 cm from Back Wall.
Thx sir🙏
Most welcome
Hans, I'm a new follower and a long time advocate of Sub/Sat systems (I own a Infinity SS1100 2.1 set and Martin Logan Motion 35XT) because Subs mostly are Self-powered, freeing your Amp to adequately power the Sats. I have read your take on Dirac Live, but I have never heard your take on A.R.C. (Anthem and Martin Logan) or any other
Why is that?
I only review equipment I know is good - which BTW doesn't mean that equipment I didn't review is bad, I can only do 52 videos a year. And I only review equipment I can give a test run in my three setups. Furthermore I focus on digital and network focussed stereo equipment. By limiting myself I also limit my potential public but within those limits I can give better advice.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks for the response, point well taken.
While much of the information you provide is accurate and helpful, the use of more than one subwoofer position in a closed space creates more complications than it helps. A more effective solution is to use bass traps or something that will perform the function of a bass trap, and then raise the output level of the subwoofer somewhat to compensate for the lack of amplitude previously resulting from reflections. You will get a much cleaner and accurate representation with less reflected bass. You know this to be the case, in any place with reflections even if you time align the subs.
Your point of view differs from mine. And from the scientific work done by Floyd O. Toole. But I am sure that is what you have experienced.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel It is, though most of my experience is in designing, building, placing and tuning sound systems in professional studios and commercial events/venues, so I tend to rely on studies from Bob McCarthy as well as studies and tutelage from John Meyer. Perhaps things work differently in a home listening environment with the presence of more furniture, as well as the listening experience?
It seems we are trying to achieve different goals. The studio is a critical listening environment, whereas the home, while one seeks clarity and fidelity, the goal is enjoyment. Likewise in a commercial venue or hired sound at a private event, or even a concert/festival, the sound pressure levels, kinds and amounts of interference are certainly different beasts to wrangle. I'd like to stick to point source for the purposes of this discussion with line arrays being set aside for general irrelevance, while effects of lobing and phase interference as a result of identical signal emanating from multiple sources unless correctly time aligned, seem less applicable. Then again, perhaps effects like comb-filtrring are mitigated by lower sound pressure relative to the sizes and naturally sound absorbent materials like cushions and carpets creating sufficient irregularities in home/home theatre settings? Or perhaps some of these effects are even desirable?
The idea about more than one (up to four) is to have each sub generate different standing waves. By keeping the sum of acoustic outputs at the same level as one sub would deliver, creates a more even bass sound field throughout the room. Apart from that, living rooms are usually smaller than the venues you work in. So the wave lengths are relatively longer in relation to the room sizes (if that is proper English).
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel First, thank you for taking the time to respond, it is appreciated. Standing waves occur with a single low frequency source as a result of reflections of low frequency energy interacting with the original signal. However, if you have two identical sources of sound, not only do each of those sources contend with reflection, they contend with each other, creating even more null points. Of course, I understand the idea that one source's null points should be kicked back into action by another source at a distance whose inevitable null points occur in different locations in the room, but the reality is that such a process creates lobing and even more standing waves unless significant time alignment is used, or the boxes are producing non-identical signals, i.e. different frequency ranges).
Is there something I am missing in my understanding of the proposed process of multiple low frequency sources?
Which option is better to connect the subwoofer, from the subout port of an active speakers, or the high output of a preamp/dac and the low output to the active speakers?
That depends on the equipment used
I have a question regarding subwoofers. The little church that I work with had installed a subwoofer on the back end of the stage and it's not a very big stage but it's where the base amp and drum kit reside. I thought 'why do we have a subwoofer right next to the base amp?' So I moved the sub to a tiny room off the side of the stage. I wanted to get it far enough away. Generally speaking do you think this was a good choice on my part? Thanks!
I have no experience with acoustics in larger environments.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel ok thx
"You might think..." - hands down the driest explanation of hi fi available at any time 🤭
Is that a compliment?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel You might think that
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Best advice ever was to expect compromise between bass and stereo imaging when placing loudspeakers, and I cannot thank you enough for that
You said you can't obviously make a subwoofer float so floor reflections are a given.. I was thinking if I could place my small subwoofer on a shelf above my main speakers? The shelf is on about the middle of the vertical height of the room. Room is small 3m x 3m and 2,5m high. Obviously it might or might not work but do you think this is crazy or worth a try? Otherwise my subwoofer is forced to go under my work desk which I understand is not ideal either..
Perhaps, but subs are designed to be nn the floor....
Great videos as always. I suppose the central question becomes, if you turn down the subwoofer until it is "unnoticeable" how does one experience much bigger and more expensive subwoofers?
With unnoticeable I mean that you can't hear the sub as a separate sound source. It should be noticeable when you switch off the sub. I developed this method using a REL Brittania B2 sub, which isn't a small one.
This was a really good video, but I had a question, I know a couple folks that have done the subwoofer crawl and yes it resulted in prodigious sound output. But it was boomy and somewhat muddled. They didn't notice, or care, they wanted volume.
Is the crawl still an ok method when listening for accuracy and quality volume? I'm considering putting both subwoofers at the front of the room for better music integration, I should have the headroom needed for home theater and can crank the volume so long as I don' have a really bad resulting dead spot.
Am I mistaken in my thinking?
There are two kinds of subs, one for music reproduction and one for home theatre. The latter are for 'impressive lows' as used in the LF channel of a surround set but it kills LF details when reproducing music. The crawl still is the best method but you need to select you sub(s) carefully.
Nice work as usual. My floorstander speakers - Image 414 (made in New Zealand) claim a room response of 40Hz - 22kHz. Does that mean that I wouldn't benefit much from a sub that has a Lower Frequency Response of 30 Hz at -6 dB in room?
No, I think you want to watch the video again😊
Just to be sure I have watched it 3 times! I understand that there are many benefits from below ~80 Hz but I’m wondering if 30Hz would be low enough for music or do I need to spend more money to get closer to 20Hz? Cheers.
Can’t help you there. Diminishing returns, how you value money and so on.
These was a very informative video. I introduced a 2nd sub, placed diagonally from sub #1. I definitely hear more articulate bass but seem to be hearing better highs too. Is this some kind of placebo effect or is there a reason I am hearing this? It's all physics...but I am not sure how this is possible? Could low frequency modes impact highs too??
I'm not sure but I could be reduced intermodulation distortion.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks for your response. So, what I'm describing is not the 1st you've heard of the phenomenon of a 2nd sub some how making the highs more clear?
Hi Hans, great video! I am in the midst of settimg up my rel sub. Would lkke to ask for subwoofers is there a need to give them space behind them to breathe like normal loudspeakers? Thanks!
If. You do just like I suggested in the video, there is no need for these kind of questions. But since you asked: subwoofers produce very long wavelengths. 80Hz is already 4.25 meters long. So the boundary effect won’t get solved by placing a sub, say, 1 meter from the walls. Your real enemies ar the room modes that cause the standing waves.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks so much! :)
Hello sir, ypu deliver very comprehensive advice. If I want to add a sub woofer to my system, Denon Receiver connected to two sets of Bookshelf speakers : 1 pair of Fluance Signature Series Surround HiFi Bookshelf speakers and 1 pair of Elec Debut 6.2 Bookshelf speakers and to Monoprice 60 Watt SW. Currently, the SW is connected by RCA CABLES . My question is that I want to move the SW to a location more ideal in the basement music room . Can I connect the SW which has high level speaker connections directly from the Elac Speakers connection or must I connect it from the Receiver by tapping into the speaker connections? The other alternative is to obtain a 25 foot RCA cable to connect to the SW out to the RCA connections on the SW. Thank you for your advice.
In theory you could but the supplied cable expects the connections for left and right channel in one place. So that won't work.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel Thx for your feedback. When you say it won’t work, you mean connections from the speaker terminal to the SW ?
wow
Hi Hans i got a question i just got my second sub for my 5.2.2 system i got a question regarding LFE signal and LPF. I got my 2 subs on LFE( I know its a separate signal mostly common in movie audio) . They also got adjustable LPF control as does my AVR. How can i adjust then so i got AND good musical bass AND good movie bass?
Great video.
Can't help you there. It basically comes down to your surround processor/receiver. There you have to set the subs so they are not to powerful and that's mainly trial and error.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Dank U wel ik zal gaan experimenteren dan ;). Ik heb de voor geschreven crossovers gebruikt die in de speacker beschrijving staan tot nu goed voor mijn gehoor. Maar sommige streaming diensten lijken opzettelijk de bass meer power uittesturen dus dan blijf je afregelen.
Awesome video Hans. I plan to use 2 subs soon and this gives me the info on how to find the best place for them
Got one query though. I saw another video on UA-cam where the person said that when using 2 subs the phase needs to be set opposite on each. Ie. If one is at 0, the other at 180. Is this true? Or should I find the ideal phase for each one and go with that? And both my subs have knobs for the phase 0-180. So it might be difficult to get just right if it's not a simple 0 and 180....
Just play a bass heavy piece of music and try it out. You'll hear the difference. In general both should be at the same position and that depends on the phase of your L&R amp and speakers.
Very nice video.
What are your thoughts on directional loudspeakers to minimize interference from the room accoustics?
That requires a complex answer I can’t give you here. Perhaps I'll make a video on the subject sometime. Goor question though!👍🏼
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Ah I see, that doesn't surprise me; I found that everything related to acoustics is way more nuanced and complex than what it seems to be at first glance.
A video on the subject would be great! 👌
There's little info at UA-cam about implementing directional speakers, as far as I know.
Thanks Hans!! Have been struggling getting my sub integrated in a satisfactory way in my new stereo. What is your opinion on high-passing the main speakers, at the same frequency that the sub is low passed? I found that my speakers sounded more natural when the full spectrum is sent to them...
Whatever sounds best.
This is great information.
Glad it was helpful!
You reference your systems frequently in your shows. A video showcasing your set ups would be interesting .... :-)
Kub Johal ... Yes!
You'll find a list here: thehbproject.com/en/About
Thanks! I orded a little Rel for my small superb mini monitors with AMT tweeter. I only miss the sub bass in my system. Can’t wait when it arrives and try out where it is at best!
Good choice!
Hi Hans, just got my REL 7X that will fit behind my Tekton Mini Lore towers. Day 2 of adjusting and listening...so true a second person would make it more convienent. Having fun. Jazz is my go-to for sound/bass checking. Some Pink Floyd, as well. Cheers.
Enjoy the music
my subs have a downfiring passive radiator. after doing the sub crawl, do I align the active driver or passive radiator to the spot, or is the answer the acoustic center (which I do not know) of the subwoofer itself?
Subs produce only bass, in most cases up to 200 Hz. At that frequency the wave length is 1.7 meters. So it might be clear it doesn’t matter how you aim the sub.
I have input/output on my passive sub for speaker cable - then out to my speakers. My input on my receiver is screw terminals. My speaker cable is banana plug. Will a banana plug fit into a space connector for my receiver?
I don't know
Have mine left of center between the fronts against wall seems to blend well
Very good guide, Hans. I'm considering adding a REL S/510 or S/812 subwoofer to my KEF Reference Three Fours. All the best, Rob
Thank you for the tips. Now my sub is correctly integrated with my speakers. I don’t even know it’s there unless I turn it off. It sounds like everything is just coming from my speakers!
Glad I could help!
Thank you sir for this video, very good explained 👏👏👏🙂. Subscribed!
thanks
Thank you Hans! I am playing around with a new two channel setup, and have the two SVS SB3000 subs in different locations in the room. Not had time to really tune them in, but the soundstage is huge having the subwoofers away from the pair of KLH Model 5 speakers. I will rewatch this video a few times and get this right. Thank you for all of the hard work and knowledge.
Sounds great!
@3:12 you say "...half the lenght of..." but I think you'd have said "...TWICE the lenght of...."
anyway....very very informative video!! thanks for sharing and compliments for you channel.
Nope, it’s half the wavelength and multiples of that.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Hi Hans and thanks for your answer. Your sentence @3:15 ".... if the wavelength of a sound is half of the length of the distance between two walls, or integer multiples of that, that wave starts to behave particular..." in my opinion is not correct.
Let me make an example: assume that distance between walls is D=4m. According to your sentence, the stationary waves should start to arise at the frequency that correspond a wavelenght of D/2=2 m (you say to divide by 2), that is 332/2= 166 Hz (where 332 is velocity in m/s of sound in air). But, in my opinion the frequency at which stationary waves starts to arise is 41,5 Hz, that correspond a wavelength of 2*D=8 m.
So we have to multiplier D by 2 and not divide by 2, as mentioned in the sentence. Of course, we will also have stationary waves at 83 Hz, 124,5 Hz, 166 Hz and so on.
Correct me if I'm wrong and sorry for my bad english :(
Anyway I'll apply your advices in my DIY subwoofer placement.
Thank again for your video.
Regards.
If half a wavelength fits between two walls, you get a standing wave. The same goes for multiples there off.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Perfect!!!
Excellent information, to the point.
🙏🏻
Outstanding..thank you.
You're very welcome!
How about a situation where you have tower speakers with built in powered subs and a separate sub? How would you do a “sub crawl” with this configuration?
I have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 90p v1, each had a pair of 8 inch 300 watt subs, connected to my Denon x7200wa via LFE. The separate sub is a Polk PSW-505 located behind my listening position with about 30 feet of basement behind. The mains are a good three to four feet from a wall, rectangular shaped basement. The Polk is good for mid bass, but the Paradigms dig a lot deeper. I am constantly playing with settings to get more out of it. Things such as playing with distances, volume levels, and phase all change the sound. But also complicate everything lol. I know I am expecting too much from this entry level Polk.
Thanks for the informative video.
Place the main speakers as described in ua-cam.com/video/gXohzklfwPs/v-deo.html and then place the subwoofer as described in this video.
That was excellent thanks.
I would like a small rell to underpin my small active speakers but the sub output on my stereo preamp has a filter cut off at 250hz. The sub might work at 80hz setting but it could sound a total mess !
Colin Benfield ... the REL subs have a crossover built in. You can use that to filter out the higher frequencies.
REL subwoofers come with a cable to hook it up to the speaker terminals. Use that and set the cross-over on the sub as described in the video. Ignore he sub-out on the amp.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel thanks. Unfortunately the speakers only have line in rca. No speaker inputs
Thank you for the video, Hans.