Destiny 2 Lore - Eramis left logs for us in the Spire of the Watcher dungeon. She told us to run...
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story tell us about how Eramis infiltrated the Spire of the Watcher Dungeon before we had a chance to reach it. She left secret recordings for us to find and left us with a warning. We should run. This wasn't a threat though. It appears to have been left to save us from the fate of being defiled by The Witness!
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It almost feels like Eramis is broken, all her anger and rage that was keeping her going seems to be gone and without it combined with seeing her subordinates being turned into scorn and wrathborn has broken the Kell. She is also likely either on Earth or close to it to be able to watch the Traveler which makes me wonder, is she really hiding? Or is she simply waiting for House Light or the guardians to find her.
Could she maybe be the first Risen eliksni? If she's on earth and in close proximity to guardians who can and will kill her she may have her own savathun-like moment
@@iamrazor9831 this was my theory as soon as plunder started. Eramis AND Mithrax show devotion to their people. I think Bungie didnt know who to give to at first and left it open for now. We all know what devotion inspires… One of these two Kells is the Kell of Kells
Perhaps will give In to the traveler and ask to be of the light as Savathun did and become the first eliksni guardian or she could save us in a season finally event where maybe she warns us about the witness and somthing it’s going to do and kills her also making her an eliksni guardian
@@frednandofilmz7856 I don't think either Eramis or Mithrax are going to be Kell of Kells. I think that's going to be Eido
@@shadowfang269 Doesn't seem to fit the same way it does with Eramis.
I doubt she'll ever become a disciple. Hope she'll turn to our side later on but more likely that she'll remain a smaller antagonist.
It does seem like she's changed her view from "Traveller evil, Darkness is key" to "All gods bring ruin, but what can we do"
Yeah. I really hope lightfall has something with her pulling a savathûn and switching sides at the last moment
Fikrul always had stronger Disciple-energy to me. I mean he's already known as a "Dark Prophet" to some. Thats one word away from Disciple....
Kratos would like her.
@@markricheard1870 true bur it seems as of right now fikrul is at odds with the witness
@@frankiebigrings7048 I think the problem here is, unlike other Scorn, Fikrul DOES have a mind that is not ....let's call it, "Riven". He is fixated wholely on Uldren Sov.
Not Crow, mind you. Uldren. I think that fixation is what's keeping him away from Witness' influence.
Solo infiltrating a seraph bunker undetected? Sounds like guardian material to me 👀
I dont want her to die tho. I want her to overcome her dark past not get it erased
@@frankiebigrings7048 she could overcome it and die for something greater like her house. This would fulfill the devotion-bravery-sacrifice-death loop that is the running theory on how guardians are chosen
@@hunterfrench1283 Well, as Savathun once said:
“Devotion inspires Bravery, Bravery inspires Sacrifice, and Sacrifice….well, you know what happens”
@@consequences1937 first who said that was speaker from red war... he also roasted gregor(.. gabe? idk the space rhino with the name starting with "G") right after
@@Psycho7452 ghaul
Run, hide, or fight. Live or die, if the Witness is allowed to complete its final shape, running and hiding will do nothing but wait for the inevitable to wipe us out anyway.
As a guardian, with or without the traveler, I’d rather fight and die knowing I did something against the Witness. Rather than hide knowing I could’ve done more but did nothing and waiting for our end to be beyond inevitable.
Basically Bracus Forge. Or whatever title he holds.
@@Flamme-Sanabi Lord Saladin bears the title of Valus Forge, and who knows, he may even rise to the rank of Primus.
I look forward to having the Iron Warbeasts fight along side us, as well as the Skiff blades. And it’d be just as cool to have support from Mara’s techeons, Rasputin’s heavy frames, and the cloud striders.
Yeah. Besides, we're Guardians. We don't run from the end of the world, we charge.
@@Landis963 if we don’t cancel the apocalypse, who will?
In other words, hid like a cowardly rat or die like a guardian
I could see Eramis becoming part of a "third choice"
No dark, no light, but survival.
The third choice in the game of life between the gardener and the winnower, the only choice capable of winning:
Not playing their game.
Letting them mutually destroy each other and live in what remains, free of their yoke.
Finally someone who gets it
Last person to try this was Nokris.
People seem to have this idea that not playing means you win. When the universe is at stake not playing means you get wiped out without involving yourself. You don’t survive that you just die like everything else or are saved by the efforts of others that you had no part in. Not playing only works as a choice against those with limited power and capabilities or desire to affect those not involved and or those who do not involve themselves. When a power comes into play that literally says I’m going to kill everything until nothing remains except one final being not doing anything means you died and didn’t matter. There’s no “survival” option that doesn’t directly coincide with getting involved and taking a side. You can be on your own side but that still means taking down at least one of the other two powers, in this case that being the witness, and ensuring your own survival through greater force or power.
@@adarkwind4712
"You are the gardener's final argument. It would mean everything if I could convince you that I am the right and only way.
I truly value you. To the gardener, you are a means to an end. To me, you are majestic. Majestic. You are full of the only thing worth anything at all.
I am, by the only standard that matters or will ever matter, the winning team. Existence is a test that most will fail. Would you not count yourself among the victorious few?
Don't hurry to deliver your answer. I'll come over and hear it myself."
Enough said.
Sounds alot like the ending of season 3 in Babylon 5
Interesting to note, she refers to us as "Machine-servant" in these logs and not "Machine-spawn" like she did all throughout Beyond Light and Plunder
After seeing what the scorn truly are, I think she's come to understand what it means to truly be a "spawn". The eyes of a gaurdian are not glassy and empty as the eyes of a scorn. Now she addresses us for what she recognizes us to be, a thing that serves to live, not a thing that lives to serve.
I think this brings a lot more context to Eramis’s story last season, where everyone was confused why she continued to help the witness despite hating what it had done. She has no other choice. The witness uses her as a puppet, threatening her to do it’s bidding, and punishing her if she doesn’t succeed. I really like the character development they’ve done, showing how she went from devotee of one god, to hating it, to following its enemy, and finally realizing that she is just a piece in a game, and that the best option is to not play at all. Hopefully Lightfall builds upon this theme that the Traveler, The Witness, or even Rasputin are not to be trusted.
Seriously, the Light, the Darkness, the IX, the Warmind, if they're all so powerful, what do they all need humanity for?
@@79bigcat The IX are probably the only “gods” that actually came about humanity, and even then it’s only a few of them. Several of them are the reason why the Red Legion even made it to the system, and as far as we know they’re still divided over whether to save humanity and themselves or let the Witness kill humanity and free the IX from this system
@@Bagel920 the nine are only interested in their own survival, which is accomplished by simply allowing sentient life to continue being in the sol system. they only care about us because we're the ones with functional immortalitly
It’s still so ironic that Osiris’ radical views of questioning the Traveler’s motives, and the nature of light and dark, as well as some predictions, are now proven correct. Though, probably not in the way he’d thought. I wonder if we’ll see the Phoenix collaborate with the Dark Vanguard in the future? Of the three, he’d probably be skeptical of Elizabeth at first. But considering his history of visions, predictions, viewing timelines before, and his views on light and dark being more grey, he’d probably have no doubts in trusting her claims if all other timelines being ones where we lose. He’s seen it in the Infinite Forest himself. If anything, she’d be another witness of those timelines that claimed to Eris, Drifter, and Ana that Osiris was right. Though they’d probably be willing to teach him, Osiris’ recent trauma would make him reluctant to learn stasis, Deepsight, or other darkness abilities, so soon.
Man, the writers really know how to make us empathize our enemies, crow, ciatl, savathun and now eramis. Before i mostly looked down on them as NPCs to be killed, that humanity would stand alone... Now we are forging piece by piece an alliance to prove the final shape wrong.
As I said in another post, I've always had a soft spot for the Eliksni. They got done dirty by the Traveler and their attacks are not entirely malicious in my eyes, they are a species trying to survive, with no "Home" to call their own until now. I'd much rather take as many in and protect them than kill them.
@@snyperwulffgaming9575 they ate babies tho
I kinda feel like you have to be willfully ignorant of how terrible of a person Eramis is to genuinely be sympathetic towards her, idk. Understanding her anger is one thing, but sympathy just feels like excusing the horrific choices she made on her own.
we killed all of them at least once
Uldren? check
Savathun? check
Eramis? check
Caiatl? Check (The nighmare)
@@bcuz8998 tbf it seems like certain houses are worse than others, I doubt they all did that
this whole scorn punishment is so creepy and really makes the witness a lot scarier than he seemed last season
Practically killing her people and raising them as zombies just to show her not to fail again and if she does he will do it again. It’s almost like he wants her to fail as the scorn are more useful to him than eliksni are since there a hive mind and can’t think for the selfs
The witness went all mafia style enforcement and stripped and punished and corrupted her “army” and she realized her fatal mistake and ran away in fear. The witness is extremely pissed bc he gave her one job retrieve nezerac body…..she failed epically so the witness called up his second in command and told her to deliver a punishment that this universe hasn’t seen and hold the line until I get there and here we are fighting a battle up a steep mountain.
We’re so screwed, honestly
Nah we’ll be fine… eventually… couple of us might die tho
Yeah... but I will not die without a fight.
Coward.
Nah, I don’t see us getting Infinity War’d. That’s what a lot of is are expecting but Bungie. Hope I’m wrong.
@@Lord_Fried watch us get infinity war'd and then the game ends with a Destiny 3 logo
"We have no need for gods" is such a good line. Makes me hope Eramis is breaking free and be an unaligned power to Winnower or Gardener.
Tbf on the traveller, it doesn’t like being seen as a God
@@MrVidman14things got emotions 💀
I’m so clearly envisioning some future cutscene or lore entry where even as the player and Eramis continue to empathize with one another (alongside others like Mithrax and Eido) we are forced to fight due to the natural opposition of our sides, and then Eramis loses and in some tragic symbolism she chooses to take her own life rather than allow herself to become fully subservient to the Witness
Remember when, after Beyond Light everyone said “is that it for Eramis?”
It is NOT indeed
I don't remember seeing anyone asking this question. No one thought it was over for Eramis, but to be honest, she's the one character in Destiny I didn't want coming back. She was terrible in BL, and all the recent lore from Plunder and now haven't redeemed her character imo.
@@elitegamer9310 exactly, I don’t think she should.
@@elitegamer9310 you are wrong
I really hope she get a redemption story. She has made mistakes same as mythrax. But she doesn’t think she deserves to have the life she wants for her people. Although I feel like she will likely die before getting a chance.
I would love the absolute face turn of Eramis making one final, first, truly heroic act, to die saving someone.
Possibly to be rezzed as the first Eliksni Guardian
@@salamanda550 yes! I feel like if it would be for anyone it would be eido. She would die for the new generation. And hopefully she could be brought back. We already know that the ghost chose the hive. I don’t see why they can’t choose the fallen.
I feel the same way! I hope she gets a grand redemption. Eramis was a future ally in my mind. She literally "mothered"Eido the whole season and even spared Misraaks. She has so much potential as a character so I don't want her to die. I know she will though. All who follow the Witness end by our hand.
Perhaps her redemption might come from death, we may or may not see.
@@salamanda550 i feel Eido would become the first guardian and Eramis will have a heroic death to save Eido and her own house
When Eramis said she didn't come for a drop of blood, I read it not as she wanted no blood at all but she had abandoned the old traditions of ending the duel at the first blood and demanded so much more than just a drop. It isn't us whom she challenges though, but the Traveller, whom she harbours the same hatred she had felt when it left Riis.
Well, at least that had been her intention, back when she came to Sol, because the events lead her to realise her involvement in this war between light and dark only stripped more and more from her and she warns us to leave while we still can because following unfeeling gods it a path that leads only to misery.
Not gonna lie, listening to that 4th audio log while the music just swelled was so moody. Eramis letting out those feelings while Tchaikovsky (?) played felt like a scene out of Evangelion. She is stuck in the worst possible situation and really wants to run, but has no choice. I think she'll turn to us in the end, but not without some sort of grave consequence
I find this whole Season more similar to Metal Gear Solid. The clandestine military feel, the AI's, the infiltration aesthetic...
@@markricheard1870 fr
@@markricheard1870 Never crossed my mind, but you raise a great point! We should probably ask Clovis if he knows anything about the Patriots...
@@zok4754 the final submind is named the la-li-lu-lay-lo
@@zok4754 There are MGS references in the season challenges so they probably had that thought too
I wonder if the Witness sent her in first to test the security before committing the Vex to it, a "prove you aren't entirely worthless", and she left the messages as a personal thing.
Eramis deserves no sympathy
She tried to take Outbreak from us in Zero Hour.
Used Stasis and still uses it while holding on a “Holier than thou” attitude with Mithrax and Variks.
Was antagonistic throughout the entirety of Season of the Plunder and justified her action as if coming into Solar System, killing people and Guardians because She and House of Devils wanted the Traveller back as “Self-Defense” when we were the ones killing Fallen in Self-Defense.
And Manipulated Eido so that she has more doubts in her father.
Like Variks (somewhat) said: “Eramis hated gods, but she is one”
She is no God. She's a miserable wretch. Mithrax should've ended her when he had the chance.
If she didn’t care why would she have helped eido why not just kill the daughter of the house of lights kell right then and there since it would greatly affect mithrax. She had the chance but didn’t do it. Even in the duel she didn’t start it mithrax did if anything she fought in defence and honer until mithrax used his splicer tech she didn’t use stasis
@@adamboy0559 She didn't help Eido. There happened to be a Hive Lightbearer in the room, and she had the last Relic.
5:55 the line Eramis says here also brings to mind that the seasonal armor ornaments are called "Basilisk." This is a reference to Roko's Basilisk, which is a thought experiment that asks if an AI that would know of everyone who knew of the even the potential of its creation, would you help to create it, knowing that it would torture you if you don't contribute to it?
If nothing else, I'd say the Witness' willingness to utilize the Scorn solidifies that the Witness and the Darkness/Winnower aren't one and the same. Perhaps, the Witness isn't even the one who spoke to Oryx in the Books of Sorrow. The Winnower asserts in Unveiling it's not in them to "choose from the dead", as the Gardener has done; Oryx considered necromancy an anathema to the Sword Logic and banished Nokris for practicing it and his deal with Xol. Meanwhile, the Scorn are a product of necromantic power through Ahamkara Wish Magic, but the Witness employs them all the same; Rhulk tried to create Scorn infused with Worms. Never mind how the Darkness uses the singular "I", while the Witness uses "We".
I am certain that Oryx was never considered as a Disciple candidate because he was a true adherent to the idea of the Final Shape, and would challenge the Witness, not kneel to them.
NOTE: I know the Winnower has an interest in us, but that has more to do with the intent of convincing those chosen by the Gardener that their ideology, the Final Shape, is right.
I thought it was already confirmed that the witness wasn't the winower. Light and Darkness are paracasual and always existed, neither is good or bad. I thought the witness was basically just a "voice" for the darkness in a way and someone who pushes the ideals of them.
Eramis underestimates our ability to turn paracausal turbo-space-gods into firearms
If the name of light fall remains true and we as guardians lose I think it will be great for the story. guardians prove that in every dlc we’re extremely powerful but I think it’d be cool to have another “red war” level event where we are left powerless which raises the stakes for us to win even more
Lets be honest, the way Season of Plunder ended has basically laid the foundation of Eramis' eventual redemption arc and betrayal of the Witness.
Whether it'll cost her her life is yet to be seen, but if it does she could potentially be the first Eliksni Lightbearer considering you need to sacrifice to become one.
Makes me wonder what our character sacrificed to become a guardian prior to when we were found in a rusted out Fiat.
@@GetDougDimmadomed Well... it can be whatever you want so long as they never give a solid backstory to our guardian.
You do not need to sacrifice to become a Lightbearer. It's just a common trait among them. Shin didn't sacrifice anything, he was given the light because a Ghost felt bad for his parents.
I really hope she comes back in a later season and finally is redeemed in some way. It’s ironic that my opinion on Eramis when she was revealed and as I played beyond light… I thought she was a terribly written villian at first who complained about the traveler leaving them and that was just her character.
Now that I’m seeing her story come full circle, the whirlwind, house salvation, and now a forced disciple of the witness and a puppet who watches her friends be turned into mindless zombies. It’s heart wrenching knowing her story now and I completely respect her opinions on the gods of the destiny universe. She’s scared and hates all of them for good reason, and has nothing left to do but watch her species wither and become shells of her former friends. I did not like season of plunder, but I really hope she comes back and finds a way to not die at the witnesses hands and joins mithrax and Eido. If any character deserves a redemption it’s Eramis. She doesn’t even need to become a lightbearer, I just with there was a way for us to help her.
In Beyond Light, we saw that after Eramis destroys our connection to the Darkness, we could still use it, and defeat her. I think what’s going to happen soon enough is that we will lose the traveler, but not the light. I think the idea is that we will “Throw away our gods” and use the light ourselves without the help of a traveler
I've been thinking about this since listening to mithrax's lore and learning that he channels the light to use the splicer gauntlet. If he can use darkness and light without being servants of either so can we
Hearing Eramis' voice over the messages fills me with hope that she'll eventually come back, maybe to us. She sounds tired. Pained. Like she'd rather be anywhere.
Wow I almost shed a tear when you were reading the guns lore. I feel so bad for Eramis
I can see Eramis becoming the first fallen gaurdian whilst Misraks is the eris to the house light (would be cool ) but eido makes more sense as being the first gaurdian
I don't. She's honestly a horrible person.
Damn a vid everyday! Just, just be sure to not force yourself ok? You're doing a awesome job and i think that everyone really appreciates it but burnout can creep in without ppl even realising.
Knowing the Eliksni and Eramis, they could've taken the vex bodies, after their dance, for later use on their tech. They are known as scavengers so I don't doubt it.
Yeah, but isn’t it dangerous to use Vex stuff? I thought it could take you over or highjack whatever you spliced it into if you weren’t careful
@@GearShotgun i forgot about that! Lakshmi learned that, but cayde used it multiple times and made good use half the time. Not to mention we wear vex armor after VoG
@@MythicFish there is a little disconnect between the lore and gameplay of course. I wouldn’t want my Guardian running around with that stuff
I really hope eramis gets a redemption ark, she really deserves one.
Eramis is honestly my favorite Destiny 2 antagonist. I'm terribly biased because of my love for tragic characters and the Eliksni, of course, but what I love about her isn't just that she has a genuinely tragic, sympathy-inducing story, it's that her actions and her motives are just viscerally relatable. She was a caretaker, a mother and a wife who lost her homeland and her family, and who could only move on by turning her grief into rage. She fought for her people, grasping at every bit of power that could give her just a little bit of leverage, and that desperation lead her down dark paths, ones that she doesn't believe she can turn back from and have now enslaved her under a god that she does not believe she can escape from. She's hurt. She's angry. She's broken, and she hates herself for what she's done. But she still sticks to what she believes in- the salvation of the Eliksni- and that hint of the mother she used to be still shines through sometimes, in how she responded to Eido's messages and saved her from the Lucent Hive, even though she was the daughter of an enemy actively working against her. It made her realize that she was wrong, and that her path would lead to only death, but she still saved her. Hell, even now she's sneaking into places to give us pep talks because she knows that we guard the Eliksni of the Last City, and she's swallowed her hatred of what we represent to try to give us the chance to avoid the fate she's fallen into. Because now she's seen that the path she's on leads to a dead end for her species, and while she can't break away from it, she *can* swallow her pride for just a little glimmer of hope. House Salvation has fallen under the Witness, and she has no more power or strength over herself, but she's not going to go quietly
She really does deserve a redemption arc imo. Or, at the very least, she deserves to die fighting, and not as a pawn under the Witness's control.
*EDIT:* I also think its worthwhile to note that I don't believe Eramis hates us personally, she instead hates us for what we represent. Even when we destroyed her control over House Salvation, she knew it wasn't personal, because she had threatened the Traveler and with it, the Lost City. She held contempt for us, but it was still just war; dispassionate, and only as bloody as it needed to be. That was also before House Light joining the Lost City was something that we knew was going to work out. But now she has become brutally aware that she is a pawn of the Witness and being forced to watch her ideals be destroyed, while we have forged an alliance with the Eliksni that grows stronger every day. So it makes sense for her to try to tip us off to run while we still can, as we are essentially their last hope in her eyes
A little parallel I noticed is Eramis referring to the current events as a struggle, similar to how Calus does in the trailer for Lightfall, saying we "will savor the fruitless struggle until its last drop". Really shows us the sort of ideology the Darkness and the Witness have towards this whole conflict and state of the universe
I don’t know how eramis got passed security measures and the hidden, like how? Like did she sneak passed tip toe-ing in? Imo this just isn’t good writing
Yeah, at first when I listened to these logs I thought that they were just some old cosmodrome recordings mixed up when the facility activated or something like that, but if she really sneaked in that's incredible dumb
@@Loderyod Sol Divisive is an ally. Why would she have to sneak at all?
@@Loderyod Eramis was a scout for House Devils as well you know. She's called the Ship Stealer for a reason.
Eramis pretty much said: "🎶Screaming at the ones we love, Iike we forget who we can trust screaming at the top of our lungs, on the grounds where we feel safe... do you feel safe?🎶"
🤣🤣🤣
I feel like with the three new subclasses each one will have a... vanguard or master or, a vendor at least, and eramis would be our stasis champion, and Osiris will be the strand champion, and then who knows for the 3rd
I want so badly for us to save Eramis and the remaining house of salvation and all the other Eliksni. I have a lot of compassion for what their species has gone through 😢
My hope is that she will become an ally in the future. From the beginning of Destiny, learning of what the Eliksni have been through, I have always been sympathetic towards them and hoped we would be allies. Eramis is one of the one's I feel the worst for, and hope she fights along side us in the final fight.
Little problem.
We have no way of leaving.
And even if we do, they will follow.
Wow, byf. Thank you, you are a fantastic storyteller and I'm glad Bungie is giving you a great story to tell.
I think Erimis might actually end up being a sacrificial ally that may sabotage the witnesses forces in a final act trying to help Eido and the house of light escape some future situation.
is DIM being down included in the lore?
my joke questions go brrr
I know how to stop the witness. I will wait until the last second and then I'll just ALT+F4. I seriously don't think he has a chance.
The way you bring lore to "life". That's what keeps me coming back for more. Never change.
Eramis has lost to us and some random fallen dude named Mithrax why does she believe we should care what she says? Let us kill the witness and make him into a damm exotic sword 💀
Y a sword
Why not a exotic glaive
Honestly yes, why should we care what she says?
We can’t forget that Mara tried to negotiate with the Witness for neutrality in ITs war against the traveler.
But she learned the hard way, IT didn’t care.
@@rkgohansking790 oh that’s even better, and put it in the kinetic slot.
@@rkgohansking790 I was thinking of this….but then realized we will probably have a new weapon type by then and glaives also seem pretty useless(at the moment).
Dude I was just looking for some destiny stuff to watch! Great timing :)
Maybe it’s a flaw of bungles or your interpretation but Eramis wasn’t motivated by the good motivations you mentioned. She was motivated by ego, control and fear. The counter narrative your proposed is often incorrectly used to justify selfish individuals portrayed as the victim villain in pop media these days
You have very strongly misunderstood Eramis as a character if your believe she’s motivated by Ego.
@@hazardous8301 You might want to spend a decade or two studying psychology and motivates individuals, any individual.
@@dezzdinn if she was driven by Ego she wouldn’t show concern about the suffering of her troops so long as she’s achieving her goals………….your comment just screams arrogance.
@@hazardous8301 Im sorry but unfortunately, … Someone can have a gross need to feed their ego and express this as control such as in Eramis’s case her she uses her people. She always fears lack of control and expresses that through her violent actions. That seems to have become her accepted nature for survival. Now that’s not saying that was her only recourse of action. But it’s the one she choose once she found her path to survive but it also shows her flaws and weakness. A individual who’s not insecure, needing control and gives in to their ego will allow others to choose. This is what makes her an antagonist vs a protagonist. She is not anywhere near omnipotent has been bested by many yet fails to see or try any other way. This is a selfish trait and it’s about her. Not her people that’s just the flawed argument she gives to continue to qualify her violent actions when she senses a lose of control and a feeling of powerlessness. There are many studies of many of the same personality types throughout history the same driving factor is ego. And often a selfishness that sees many die, like Eramis’s own people but rather that look for a compromise she lives on while others are sacrificed.
But I suppose that’s her being noble…
@@dezzdinn most of what you said isn’t true, the rest of it is just shitty interpretation.
Eramis does have a Ego, and it often prevents her from listening to others as she believes her path is best. But it doesn’t change the fact that she still does what she does for her people.
Even at this point in the story, with recent events, she knows she’s made a mistake siding with the Witness, but has also seen that if she leaves, disobeyed, or fails, her people suffer even more, thus she stays, because she believes there is no other choice anymore.
This also isn’t a interpretation, and most of what I said are nearly direct statements made during recent events, or draw from some of this seasons lore tabs.
Does Eramis have a Ego? Certainly. Is it her primary driving force? Not even close.
A side must be chosen, yes.
But not choosing a side is also choosing a side.
Eramis trying to leave behind her boring ass season for this one lol
My money’s on Eramis ending up scornified sooner or later.
wow, so glad you made these videos because I can't get into Find a Fireteam to run this dungeon. Thanks for making this video.
can't wait for this character development 😊
I give her the words of ancient warriors... Words of the 300 Spartans at the HOT GATES.... MOLON LABE...
IN OTHER WORDS:
IF THE WITNESS WANTS SOME, SHE CAN GET SOME...
Here on earth, we don't bend to will of tyrants. I suspect RASPUTIN is like minded...
TLDR; I don’t think the devils are gone or only living through Eramis, and I think she should cheer up
I’m still pining that the devil splicers are still about. The plaguelands are never really mentioned, and the splicers weren’t fully dealt with. I say this because, Eramis seems to fully believe the devils are all gone, but there’s not too much reason to believe that is true beyond the whole house merger by the time of the red war. Maybe she should go looking, it’s not like the plaguelands don’t exist anymore, and what could it hurt to get some useful tech?
It is very true that God's have been the greatest cause of spilled blood. God's telling us how merciful they are, while wallowing in the blood of those dedicated to them.
I believe in redemption for her character. Reading the lore about her believing that the she has no place in a future of her people prospering, due to the blood and destruction laid by her hands, is heartbreaking.
To fight for the future of your people and believing that you aren't deserving to see or be a part of that future because of the path you took to get there calls for redemption.
Mithrax has made mistakes and we get to see him change his ways, the same can be done for Eramis.
Eramis knows what she is doing, murdering thousands of guardians and having a “Holier than thou” complex does not make her redeemable, she deserves every piece of hate and despair she gets
@@FatalFrostbyte29 that’s fair that’s fair. I guess I’m a sucker for redemption stories done right.
Key words “Done Right”
But if not redemption someone else in the comments mentioned a much more reasonable alternative of “she’s on our side but as more of a minor antagonist and a ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’” sort of ordeal.
How do you feel about Eramis?
@@MrTJCM6 I feel she is a hypocrite and does what she wants, using stasis, trying to steal Outbreak, manipulating Eido, Twilight Gap, making House Salvations into an Empire and going at The Last City when Eliksni were fine without any wars in Salvation, having a superiority complex and saying that all the horrible things House Devils and she did were justified and self-defense.
She just feels like a cowardly, egoistical hypocrite, there is nothing left for her to do but to either run from her problems without solving them or run to us.
@@MrTJCM6 From a literary standpoint, it'd be a massive shame to kill her off. I also believe a full on redemption arc is too predictable and straightforward a conclusion to her character arc. Again, literary pov.
From a personal perspective, I believe the pragmatic choice would be to at least sway her against the witness rather than maintain hostilities towards each other. She doesn't have to be on our side directly to do that, just more a neutral party.
Perhaps she may even salvage another sort of group to succeed House Salvation, that follow a more isolationist path away from all paracausal shenanigans, something like Dead Orbit perhaps, trying to find a way to escape wanting nothing to do with Light vs Dark, as emphasised in her messages in this video. That could be her redemption ark of sorts.She has to find a way to break away from the Witness first, perhaps with our help? We'll see.
The more that everyone, Eramis, Toland, Calus, the Witness, whoever else, keeps saying that it's pointless to struggle and ultimately does more harm than good, just makes me *want* to keep struggling to prove them all wrong.
Quintessential human nature, I suppose. Tell us resistance is futile, and naturally we resist harder.
Why in blue hell has bungie not hired this man as lore headmaster alpha or lore wizard or something like that
Lore-lock
Eramis probably doesn't know that we killed a wormgod using ordinary ammo, and we are continually killing rhulk the disciple 3 times a week.
Killlist - Atheon, Crota, Skolas,Sylok and other poe bosses,Oryx, Aksis, Ghaul,Caluses copies, everything on leviathan, Riven, insurrection prime, ghalran(leviathan too I guess), vex in the garden, taniks. Add all the majors/named/dungeon bosses hordes of murdered adds of all races. millions. The Guardian is basically a boxer with hundreds of thousands of kos, and no losses.
And I get it, there wouldn't be destiny at all if we died on day 1. But when lore and trailers("our end begins") starts to threaten us it's kind of ridiculous. I think maybe it would make more sense if we were just spectators in the lore. Unless bungie plans to end destiny and kill us all at once, we're obviously going to kill witness and everyone else, and farm the shit our of them just to get a fancy gun and/or armor piece🤣
Basically Eramis in Destiny 2 Season 18 and this Season:
"I want to take from what they took from me, from my family. I want them to suffer. I want all of them to die in fear and pain... I want to have my revenge. Against them, against the Great Machine. I want to call it my own, to make my anger a God's anger. To justify the things I done to my people... Sometimes I tell myself that these wild fires of rage will never stop burning, but I'm the one who starts them. Not the Great Machine, not them.
I can always see it in my mind, the whispers, the freezing cold throughout my body. It'll always be a part of me... but not today."
Through intelligent reading and inferences (a skill that’s lacking in the US’s gen z as the data suggests from the last 5 years of ACT data) we can easily infer that Eramis’s “I have not come for a drop of blood” to mean she’s come for something far more. Not that she isn’t going to fight, hence the reference to gripping her blade. Hurr durr. Also, if Destiny had a message, it’s that there ARE NO GODS.
interesting the last transmission talks about "Gods" and how they built their own, as you said, to avoid uncertainty... brings to mind an apt saying "will you choose the devil you know, or the devil you
don't?"
Eramis, of the House of Devils chose the Devil she didn't know, knowing the wrath of the Devil she did (the Traveler)
The humans that made the Warmind made a Devil they "know" in fear of one they didn't
The Guardian... us, what devil will we choose?
I'm starting to think Eramis will become the first Eliksni Lightbearer. She's completely Devoted to her people, She's Sacrificed her home, her friends, even her family, just to give the Eliksni a better chance at survival. All that's left....is Death
Ngl I hope Eramis is redeemed by becoming a Guardian. Think about it, what a more perfect way to cap off her arc by sacrificing herself to stop the Witness, only to become a symbol of the redemption of her people by becoming the first Eliksni lightbearer in thousands of years? Right now she's broken and lost, but I think it would be so poetic if she, not Variks, actually manages to save her people in the end.
I'm predicting Rasputin will end up equivalent to the Traveller and Witness. My main evidence is the reused themes of a sphere, pyramid, and cube. Rasputin's buildings are the closest we have to cubes (turned on point). More is the Traveller almost certainly being a machine, perhaps with an agent within it. The Witness gave us our Gardener/Winnower lore, so I'm guessing they're personifications or writers in our universe. Its their take on the light and darkness and the desires they project on the forces. The darkness and light are both just paranatural forces and can be controlled. Clovis seems likely to throw in with the Witness right up until he's instructed to wipe out humanity when he stabs the Witness in the back because he can't be famous if everyone is dead.
Probably jumping to conclusions here, but after I heard Eramis’ first message I assumed she infiltrated the spire and set up all the cables that make up the dungeon mechanic. They’re strewn about haphazardly in a way I can’t buy into CB and Ishtar scientists and engineers doing. So I assumed she snuck in to sabotage the Vex, and the Witness for what it’s doing to her house.
There's a little thing that seem to be curious. I don't know if it's a translation error but the german title for the dungeon itself implies that "the Watcher" is female (it's called "Säule der Wächterin"). I don't think there are female Vex and I don't recall any other female involved in the mission other than Eramis - would that imply, that she's a watcher of sorts? 👀
Eramis honestly gets no sympathy points from me. These are horrific consequences her and her's are suffering now. But they are consequences of her own choices. She's sad when her friends are twisted into Scorn, or killed at our hands. But she'll also turn around and kill her own House with Vex, so long as she doesn't know them. Eramis will never be anything but a selfish, pathetic slave of her own anger.
:O So we could potentially see Eramis actually join the side of the City... I can see her coming to Miisraaks and bowing to him, stating something like "I thought that I could lead our people into the future... But I see now that I was wrong. That it was not for me to be the leader our people need, not a warrior filled with arrogance... But a wise and thoughtful leader, one who can think about what the results of each step in the path might be. And so I come to you, humbled... I seek to join your House, if you shall have me despite my dark past... Missraakskell." And I think her addressing Miisraaks as "Kell" would be the most critical element; it would be her acknowledging that the way she believed to be the one forward was only miring the Eliksni in the past... In the Drift. That she now realises that the Eliksni need to see a new path, one that leads away from the Drift and towards a new Riis, if not in place, then at least in culture. That the Eliksni need a Kell to restore the cultural heritage of the Eliksni as what they were before the Whirlwind. And maybe she will be a link to the Whirlwind, passing on the lessons learned through the Drift, that the next generation will not have to also tread that path, yet still be able to take the lessons forward.
So if The Witness stole Mars to gleam into its past to unlike secrets of what lay on Neptune. It makes you wonder what the purpose of stealing Io, Mercury and Titan? Mercury would have taken the Infinite Forest away from Osiris to use, Io had connections to Rasputin so may have held other secrets worth uncovering, but what was on Titan?
I feel like Eramis falls flat. Who is she to tell us this? We have lived through, fought against, and suffered the consequences of the Witness for years. And the Traveler has enabled us to preserve our reality from the subjugation she was unable to save House Salvation from. Eramis has nothing to teach us. She can only watch as we do exactly what she tried to do, except we do it better. Infinitely better. Eramis falls flat in her emotional appeal.
Feels like Eramis is resigned to Light and Darkness. Like she’s been betrayed by both head figures, so now she’s just a broken antagonist. Feels like due to her interaction with Scribe Eido she’s just in limbo about both sides and just wants to focus on her people but in a more prideful way than how Mithrax is…
I love this season's narrative and how we're exploring the existential terror that the scorn actually are. they're a literal zombie horde, but with enough smarts left to use squad level tactics and magic. seeing them from the outside never really got us a good look at just how horrific they are to the people around them, but Eramis is out there being forced to work along side the reanimated corpses of her former friends and found family.
side note: I always kind of had this confusion with scorn as a faction. isn't reanimation, necromancy, and "undead" sort of things supposed to be antithetical to the Witness's whole philosophy? like, I know the sword logic is always associated with the hive as their state religion but wasn't it given to them by the witness?
At this point Eramis' fate will go one of two ways: either she surrenders her fate to the Witness, becomes a Disciple, and is killed tragically by us in some future encounter; or Eido finally gets through to her, and she takes a chance to seek refuge with Mithrax and the House of Light. I have a feeling it's going to be the former, but we'll see.
If the witness wins. If the witness continues to survive. Suffering will spread. It wont stop. He wont stop. Unless someone or something stops him. What else are we as guardians meant to do but to end the suffering. So what if we're in agony. It isnt about us. It's about humanity. And protecting it. But this is also a matter of pride. The witness thinks he can just walts in and smack us about. Nah homie. I for one wont get pushed around. I push back
The Guardians: Amassing an army.
The Witness: Amassing an army, again.
Symatrist Guardians: Getting out the popcorn to watch if one side winning causes the victor to lose their power too.
This video crashed my phone lol
“But now we do not look at houses or enemies with honor. I am alone, watching your traveler as I was the day it fled Riis… my blade gripped in challenge. But I have not come for a drop of blood.” this doesnt mean she doesnt want to inflict violence. this means she wants to kill the traveler. nothing new tbh classic Eramis. (please someone let me know if im wrong and what the meaning of this text really means because even im not too sure but i feel like this log went over byfs head.)
Once Disciple Calus begins his assault on Neptune and heralds the welcoming of The Witness, I see the remaining House Kells becoming desperate enough to rally behind Eramis as the one true Kell of Kells to lead the last remnants of the Eliksni alongside our Coalition against the enemy that brought the Whirlwind and the Collapse.
I think Eramis bit more than she can chew.
She had her home at Europa. She had her house, her peace she yields for. She managed to unite even new generation of the Eliksni under her banner, Kell's Scourge. She had so much, yet it wasn't enough. Her pride was hurt because Traveler for some reason chose us, and gave us ghosts, and that was her ruin. For a moment she really was Kell of Kells, a one that Skolas could hope to achieve in his wildest dreams. But she chose her side. She chose darkness in order to hurt us and make us pay for something we aren't guilty for. Even Eliksni payed with their lives when they were fleeing Europa to Mithrax's house.
So, I don't believe she is sorry. Each and every act we make has a consequence, and this is hers.
She's been getting punished. Her House is being stripped away, her reputation is now baked in hate and fear by those around her, her ability to leave it all behind is lost, and now she's broken. Just reduced to the starving scavenger she was forced to become. In spite of it all, the Black Fleet was responsible for everything so to say the Traveler is the main reason at fault is a gross misunderstanding.
Bungie has been drawing parallels between the light and dark but one thing I never understood is that in the Witch Queen campaign it seems to be a big theme that Light is associated with a new beginning with no memory and the darkness allows you to access your past/memory which is hit on the whole season of the haunted.
Why is it that the scorn don't have memories? Is that an implication the witness is withholding memories from darkness ressurected associated beings? I'm not too well versed in lore to know if that has any connection with egregore and potentially the darkness having a necessity to merge a being with darkness a la Osiris and potentially Calus to create a whole being with memories intact and potentially implying that the witness "takes" a physical form and a memory form as a higher mastery of the darkness than Oryx.
Doesn’t anyone think she could be similar to Rhulk, just in the aspect that she is unwillingly becoming one of the last of her house- then deeper than that, her species, as the Fallen are turned to Wrathborn & Scorn, of course except those that stay at the Tower but like.
We are Guardians...we arent even alive! Lol! The things that apply to everything else thats 'Living" does not apply to us. We have no need of food or water. Thirst nor desires. We are just light worriers for the traveler...Thats it! We were literally born for that single purpose
To be fair, Eliksni stealth tech is pretty great. So sneaking though the facility before us, whilst an achievement in speed, isn't quite as far fetched as it might be for a standard 4 meter tall 4 armed bidepal insect.
How am I just now seeing your channel after all these years of playing?Amazing content you put out sir!! Thank you!!
As somebody who's been watching his content since 2015.....you have a lot to look forward to bro 👍
The darkest plot twist to conceive under the spinfoil hat.
The Traveler isn't the servant of the Light, the Traveler is a third party force that entered the game when the shit hit the fan. In it's eyes, the only way to stop the two forces from fighting is to smash the board they argue over. Then there can be true peace across all existence.
And to elaborate further, it is far more powerful than the Witness. It takes the appearance of a weak little thing to make the Witness more comfortable.
It stole the Light and took the place of the Gardener in the universe, hence fooling the Witness to it's actual identity as the end of all shapes.
And right now, the Witness is falling right in it's long planned trap.
I want a rescue mission. I want to jump out of a dropship from orbit and use code of the missile to strike the witness's forces like lightning. Enemy or no, she has proven to be an eliksni in dire need of assistance, And as a titan I have vowed to man the wall and to protect my people. As far as I am concerned, Eramis was never the enemy, even when she sought to kill us. If she is not my enemy, then she is of my people. Who else can I ask to drop in like a meteorite from space and reek untold destruction so we can bring her home?
Except, EXCEPT! What if Eramis infiltrated the station in another time different from the one we enter in? Remember that the time rifts are not consistent. A time wound will take us to the past while the one right next to it would take us to another time along that past, maybe more recent. What if Eramis' infiltration points were removed because they happened at another time?
Oooooof....I feel like Lightfall is gonna be sad and bleak in some regard. But we're not gonna just lie down and die without popping a cap into the Witness first.
I have a feeling Eramis is gonna end up like Freya in God of War. Angry at the wrong God. But if she ever has a change of heart, I have a feeling she would either die, or would be made an example of
Quiet hints that Osiris turns big evil in Lightfall??? PLEASE LET IT HAPPEN!!!!!
When I was fighting against one of the resurrected boss eramis just sounded so unlike herself not the fierce voice saying I'd die and wish I'd never been chosen by the light but she sounds almost void of life just what did the witness show her to bring back one of her fallen? That was a huge red flag for me.
Ngl I hope they don't try to give Eramis a redemption arc or something to make her go against the witness. Such a trope I'm tired of seeing where "villains are people with feelings too". If you're to make a villain for that has pain and tragedy in their past with it continuing into the present, use it to reinforce their own reason for being evil, rather than making it an excuse for them to change
assuming the 'Witness drinks the Light' prophecy is true, i wonder if the Traveler knew this and thats the reason for Ghosts. to leave us a way to harness the Light after its gone/captured/corrupted
@@History_PodcastFinalAssignment oh true, but if it were to be removed we would need some kind of mechanism for the Ghosts to function. again assuming that occurs. and we still don't know exactly why the Traveler created them when it did
tbh this is an interesting lore bit for eramis as a character, but we knew that the witness and its "salvation" are only death and suffering, I mean I think it's fair for eramis to try and warn us, but isn't this exactly why we fight? It's not just about our own survival anymore
I don't care what happens to the rest of Sol, I'm going down fighting. Whether it be the Darkness, the Light, or both, I'm going down fighting.
If or when those Traveler prophecies come true I think she'll come to us as an unlikely aid because we'll be "unshackled from hope" and she won't want us to turn into the Fallen.
Honestly kinda cool that now there taking eramis a kinda generic villan during beyond light and fleshing her out in the past two seasons really shows how bungies writing has drastically improved post season 14 .
The traveler abandoned us for the hive the second savathun could offer it more protection than we could. The traveler doesn't care about humanity, its using us as a shield because we protect the city, and by extention the thing that gives us the power to do so. The witness wants to exterminate all life to achieve the final shape, or to prove that it is the final shape. Eramis is right, we are really sandwiched between two enormous powers that don't care if humanity just dies out if it furthers their own goals