UPDATE: The developer has been hard at work on changing the game to make sure it doesnt get a strike again and the new page now has a steam page you can wishlist. store.steampowered.com/app/2609610/CONVRGENCE/ Personally I think this new game looks even better than paradox of hope so every cloud has a silver lining and all that.
@@-TNT47- I don't think GSC would do that. STALKER got so many copycat and they legit have some mods that you can play for free without the og game. At the same time I can't really say cause the mods were free.
@@LazyLash i really don't believe it either cause i know STALKER devs aren't cunts, just made a comment on how much it looks like stalker. Even the shopkeeper was like a younger version of Sidorovich
damn, I had no idea. Had my eye on it waiting for it to be finished. Feel so sorry for the developer. His situation really isnt fair. Another passionate dev shot down by a big studio for no reason. Wish him luck for what he works on next.
You've got to love those AAA games that don't even work half the time. Big studios are so scared of even a small developer working alone on a game that they will do ANTHING to get rid of the game. The Indie game is probably better than most of their AAA games.
I hate how there are so many games that did or could have had great themes, atmospheres, gameplay, communities, ect. But because a big studio did a sloppy job years before got shut down, never started, or left to rot in obscurity.
@@Stripedspot I don't agree with how the Metro guys are handling this, but every Metro game was completely solid and have given me no issues at all. Like they are truly solid games. Which honestly makes this who situation even more stupid. There is no reason they should have been intimidated by this game.
He is in the clear as far as intellectual property. It's frustrating that developers with millions use their money to gatekeep someone from having their own potential hit game. If he made the assets for the game, didn't copy designs, locations, characters or story. Then it's ridiculous, because they are basically claiming all of post apocalyptic Russia as their idea.
Yeah, I’m fairly certain STALKER and even Half-Life 2 to a degree beat Metro to the punch on that, so imagine if they sent Metro a C&D to make a point.
sounds like they're doing it just because they know he can't defend himself, they must've been very intimidating. It's so petty though, we're a small market to begin with.
These big studios are run by the same guys who were insecure losers in grade school. This is the first and only time they'll ever have power in their lives and they wield it like the manchildren that they are.
imagine how this wouldn't be a problem to begin with if the developer used his brain and decided to not make it's inspiration so damn obvious. I cannot blame companies for protecting their IP's. This game getting a C&D will piss off the few who know about it, but ultimately it will not hurt the company. If anything the fanboys will side with them. They could have made the same game without making it such an blatant Metro ripoff. And they could still do something about it. Literally just needs assets swapped, locations changed and such. Easy fix. Sorry, dev is the one responsible for the situation they're in.
how dare you come up with such a good idea that should of just been done in the first place as that's exactly what i thought of S E I Z E H I M. SEIZE & DESIST! lol. Shame honestly cause if they just put their ego away they could of easily made this into a official Metro VR game if they company could have the foresight.
yea no they are not dude because implying so would mean companies can copy right themes, genera's, and concepts "that predate said company mind you all" to an absolutely absurd and abstract degree. What you are implying is insane to put it bluntly. @@TheCunningStunt
While it definitely took some heavy inspiration from the Metro series, there's no way this should have been hit with a copyright strike. The developer even said they felt like they had a strong case to dispute it, but they didn't have the resources to hire a lawyer to stand up to "the company which shall not be named." It's such a shame, as the game looks very well done, especially for a single person. He said he was going to make another game using the lessons he learned from this one, but if that doesn't work, hopefully this project can work as an excellent portfolio piece and he can find a job at an established developer.
I think the Paradox of Hope developer could dispute this easily. I understand that it costs money and he's gonna be going up against big corpo layers. That's why this is a shoe in for a crowd-funding situation!
@uromastix87 He wouldnt have even needed a lawyer. He could have just brought the source code and dev notes to courts. "Please show where I have stolen code, assets, story, from you. because I dont see it."
@@cheeeeezewizzzThat would be in an ideal world. Sadly, "court" is currently a war of attrition were the company with the most money and willing to continue to sue will win eventually. Looks at what Sega did to some emulators back then. They first took them to court, Sega lost. Then they took them to court again for another bogus reason. The company couldn't afford another trial so they just gave up. Even if he won his trial, he would have lost so much time, money and mental that it would still be a loss and he'll probably stop to make game for a long tims
This is the moment when big corpo won't make VR title because of low rate of return from invesment but single guy without their hesistations and constraints can do this so they choosing to cut him off instead of use popularity of his project for their own advantage and create something their own.
Yea, I think they see him as competition when they should try to make him ally ... give the guy a job...he is actually doing the work. But instead, this is one of the many things stifling VR innovation..
@@infiniteblink Agree, "Good job man, maybe you could add our assets, use actual lore and we will publish this as a spinoff for VR since we did not made any". Unfortunatelly in those big publishers there are no people who understand and love games, they are there just to make money and protect trademarks.
@@cURLybOi No. Most of people (80%) don't speak English (± the same amount of people on Earth (20%) know Chinese). More of it, barely people who know English, know it in the level of native speaker. And if you *don't live* in English-speaking country, you never understand it better than your native language. Me, for example, can write and read most of things without any translator, watch English videos without subtitles; but in action and when prononcuation is unclear, some accents (in Lone Echo it was harder to understand English for me), you don't have as clear understanding of speech as in your language. For easiest understanding of how it works, try to listen someone in English when he is eating and speaking simulatniusly, using obsolete words, changes word orders in inappropriate way, and have american villager accent. You can understand most of what they will say, but you spend some effort to understand it and overall it's better to hear just normal English. Something simmilar when English is not your native.
I was already watching this video again a few days ago, but little did I expect the timing to be perfect after seeing the trailer for the new VR Metro game. Still sad what happened, but at least the developer on Paradox was able to bounce back.
Its baffling how 99.9% of people in comments dont get the issue. Yes I do feel for the guy, who spent a lot of effort, time and put in the soul. But the issue is obvious to anyone - it does look like CTRL+C CTRL+V of Metro series, in both visuals and gameplay mechanics. Yes, 4A Games does not own the soviet-post-apocalyptic setting and gas masks, but they do own designs. This game literally copies look of monsters (see spiders, those buff ghouls), weapons (rifles, mags), even watch and lighter clearly look "very much inspider". Good examples: Into the radius is not STALKER, despite having the Zone and the arftifacts. Wish all the good to the dev, I really hope the dude gets a deal with some publisher and a puts this work to good use with a bit of reskinning.
I dont believe this is what caused the C&D. Like the spiders that are literally the same as in Metro, the generators and ESPECIALLY the fuse power boxes look identical, the medkits too. Further the buggy and the on rail section shown at the beginning are pretty much 1:1 copies too. Its blatantly obvious that a lot of assets are pretty much copied, i cant believe that nobody sees it. Although, it is definitely a great idea and concept of a game, it doesnt change the fact that a lot of things are copies of the Metro games.
@@pixelgem6264 If he made those assets him self, then those are his assets, even if those look very similar if not same, there is still differences. It would been best to contact the creator and ask him to change few things here and there and not go full C&D, but on other hand if they dont defend their title its seen as abandonware in eyes of the law how ever stupid that is. That latter part should really be adjusted to more kin of if you dont make product in X amount of time you loose your copyright and not if you allow people copy your IP you loose it..
I'd be immediately comparing the company in question's copyrights VS the content Paradox of Hope has. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave a cease and desist without entirely legal grounds with the hope that an indie developer wouldn't want to bleed money into the court system.
It's definitely this. There are similarities to the Metro series for sure, but I don't think any of those elements can actually be copyrighted. There might be an argument for the overall similarity of the title, but that'd be pretty feeble imo, and the developer should have been given the opportunity to differentiate their game from the Metro games, including a list of all the offending elements from the publisher.
@@GreyMatterShades The gameplay isn't trademarked as far as I know and aesthetics wise Metro doesn't own the soviet commie-era visuals any more than GSC does with Stalker or Valve with Half-Life 2
@@OfficialDJSoru For the love of fuck, it's not the visuals that they've copyrighted. Spider bugs are 1 for 1 copied from Metro to PoH, mechanics and all. The AK is 1 for 1 almost identical to the AK74-M, right down to the open mag orange bakelite mag. The armoured suit is so incredibly similar to the one you can buy in Metro. The bullet lighter you use for lighting your way and burning way the spider webs in the metro. The railcar you use to go from base to raid is nearly identical to the one you have in Metro Last Light. The fact that the watch is tied to how long your gas mask filter lasts is 100% identical to Metro's usage of it. The music is next to identical. The list goes on, as much as it's painful to see a honest to god good indie dev get shot down like this, they really did not make it hard for a company to do something like this unfortunately.
Metro doesn't own post apocalypse in russia, gasmasks or their mechanics in a game, what he needs to do is make the creatures a hell of a lot more distinct, the spiders that are harmed by light is a dead giveaway as to what he was taking heavy inspiration from. I love this game, and I'm sad that one of my favourite franchises is doing this to a small time dev, the guys done a brilliant job making this, and realistically the only thing that should happen is that he gets hired by the "Unnamed company"
@@DarkSwordsman I think the issue is it's so remarkably similar to say it's not is just about lying. You can see though that the creator knew he was skirting a fine line and changed it just enough to seemingly get away with it for so long. But honestly, it's still sad. If it were me in the unnamed companies position, I would hire him. Plain and simple, a project of this nature shows nothing but passion for the source material. Hire him to keep making it and give him the ability to rebrand it under the license of the game. That's just smart business in my eyes.
@@sirspamalot4014 Breacher’s VR has copied literal rainbow six maps to the fucking window lmao. Not to mention the original metro IP stole multiple things from the stalker development studio as they were originally all one studio, but split up
I saw this story on Reddit yesterday and it made me upset, because this dev spent so much time and hard work to make this game and I was waiting until it had a little more content before I picked it up and now it's just gone forever. So incredibly frustrating. I will definitely make sure to support the dev's next game! We've got to keep tabs on what comes next!
You are very much mistaken. This is a problem of any Ukrainian studio. If they had the resources like other major studios, we would have a world like in 1984
@user-qx8kf3st8t kremlinbot trying not to hate on ukraine for 10s: (impossible) Look at the stalker games, gsc gameworld lets the free standalone mods like anomaly exist
This is upsetting but not surprising, a lot of companies have a history of doing this, in particular Nintendo (although I’m admittedly thinking more of fan projects, which isn’t a fair comparison). Due to you noting how similar things like the menu music I hope that the game can be put back up with things like the music changed that are too similar. Edit:I get this is personal preference, but I don’t see why the weapon mechanics in things like ITR being too system heavy being a bad thing. Games having heavy system elements is an important part of any game (flat screen OR VR) for immersion IMO. A couple good examples are the rougelikes Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead and to a lesser extent Streets Of Rouge.
More games should be allowed to go wild. If someone doesn't like super light arcadey shooters where you don't even have to reload then they don't have to play them. If someone doesn't like games that take the ARMA approach even further then they don't have to play them.
Although this isn't universal by any means, mechanically heavy games often have a lot of trouble in VR, since the mechanics either don't translate properly, or having to do everything with your actual hands makes then infinitely more tedious.
yeah for nintendo, well yeah it's nintendo. one of my favorite fangames to have ever been made was one called pokemon brick bronze, it had good story, design, and some dang GOOD music. but it got too popular and was shut down permanently by nintendo. : (
This is one of those moments you wish the the Metro devs would just hire this guy to do a VR port or spin-off of the series. The guy's got talent, especially if he made this by his lonesome.
The company is Ukrainian, and the developer is from Russia, I think this served as a lawsuit due to "violation of copyright" When I first saw the game, I thought it would end like this.
@@seniorilay8291 what’s really shitty is that original stalker devs accused metro devs of stealing multiple things when they left the company so it’s very hypocritical of them to go and start seeing other people are stealing their stuff when they infect stole it themselves.
@@taylorpennington8126 The developers of STALKER recently sent out copyright strikes to Russian bloggers for publishing screenshots of their game, so perhaps they're to blame in this case as well
Corpos hate creativity if it's not their creativity. Business majors are violently opposed to the very concept of anyone being good at anything but themselves.
Valve needs to protect their IP, so I'm not sure they would. It's not always out of maliciousness that certain projects are taken down, it's due to how copyright law works.
@@hillehai they allowed hunt down the freeman to be sold on their platform, and gave the green light to black mesa, so it would not be out of character for valve
Paradox of Hope had very similar elements to Metro series: gas mask and watch mechanics; burning webs; armored giga spiders; main metro theme. Not good, but pretty common thing in Steam library. When shit happened, dev tried to remove some content. Publisher refused to negotiate and pressed the delete button by money bag. Thus, they directly attacked the developer and us, (vr) players. This is unforgivable act of content suppressing, imho (like Rockstar and Nintendo).
It's absolutely despicable that a company wouldn't even be willing to negotiate or accept changes, especially when their claim of copyright infringement was so feeble to begin with. Nobody has a copyright on a post-apocalyptic setting, or the Russian metro system, or gas masks, or watch based GUI mechanics, or even mutated spiders. The modern legal system is practically pay-to-win, and this just highlights that problem.
That's the developer's own fault. He shouldn't have budged. Similarities aren't enough to claim copyright, there's tons of games who share a lot of similarities with other games and there's no legal issue there. Even more than this game shares with the Metro games. Of course what accuser is doing is awful, but there are ways to fight it.
Just a small signal boost, but IronMace games, makers of Dark and Darker is being sued by Nexon. Nexon claims that the company is infringing their copyright because, and I quote, "their games both has knights and wizards in them" and as a result Valve had to remove D&D from their steam page. You don't even need a legitimate reason. You can just make something up and bring them to court over and over until the smaller company loses by default.
@@PinkManGuy They do have to be careful though. While an individual small indie developer may not have the resources to defend themselves in court, if a big company does this to too many small developers, there could be grounds for those developers to partner up and pursue a class action lawsuit. It is really unfortunate though. I wish platform holders would require more proof, evidence, or solid ground before taking down indies at the behest of larger companies. You see similar stuff happening on UA-cam with DMCA takedowns and copyright strikes against smaller channels. These legal tools are being weaponized by large companies against small creators who lack the means to defend themselves.
@@thenonexistingherothe problem is that sometimes shotty cases like this can still end up going through and the dev didnt want to put his life in jeopardy or atleast not that much.
If I watched this video with the sound off, I would think that this was a early look at a Metro 2033 VR game. Thats how close he modeled everything to Metro, the watch, burning the webs, how the weapons buying rack work, the backpack/working on guns on the workbench, the railcar moving while shooting back at enemies, the ak mags with the sides taken off. You have to admit, if this were a game where you were a jedi lookin guy with a lightsword and this many similarities Disney would come after them.
im glad creators like you are mentioning this, thank you. Finding out that this beautiful game getting shot down like a bird is the most frustrating thing.
It's incredible that one person was able to make such a game, not to mention it's in VR which is even more challenging to develop than traditional games. Sad to see that all this work is now bascially wasted, but I hope they'll try to make another game with what they learned.
The dev wrote on the discord to not make it worse by sending bad stuff towards the copyright holders and they will just spin the project into something else.
I love your videos. It would be interesting to see a video comparing the game over or "death" screens of different VR games. I'm curious how different games have handled it.
People need to learn that a cease and desist letter has no legal weight behind it, all it means is that someone paid a lawyer to write the letter for them to look more intimidating.
I ended up getting a VR Valve Index and i must say, thank you, your videos and articulation of details in VR has been especially valuable to me, especially the recommended mods for Half Life Alyx, as the merciless mod imo changes the enemies into Lore based enemies that behave like the rest of the games, that for me was a HUUGE improvement and i never would of found if it was not for you. As that mod is BURIED in the workshop, especially if your just browsing recent, or most subscribed, even the filters didn't help. Anyway, thank you, keep up the good work, ima be following along from here on essentially. Is there a community discord to be joined by the way?
Stalker publisher should sue Into the radius, and Tarkov publisher should sue Tabor. On a "bright" side, the fact that they even noticed him means VR is no longer ignored by big publishers ;) Cold comfort.
actually, stalker 2 "devs" are attacking yt channels that has any videos from stalker series (trailer, gameplay, etc). Some channels could be deleted after 3 copyright strikes.
Tbh I wouldn't even mind tarkov devs going after tabor devs. I think it's a great game but it is very clearly a straight rip off of Tarkov. All the way down to the way they handle their "dlc packs" (lol) and server wipes.
@@jedizhawk ohhh they do. They hate sptarkov so much even though it checks to see if you paid for tarkov. All it does is let you play tarkov offline in a single player lobby but they absolutely hate it with a passion. I wouldn't put it past them to go after tabor lol
Influence? Inspiration? No, that's more than heavy inspiration. They did almost everything short of literally ripping models. They worked up the same exact watch design, very similar magazine design for the rifle, the lighter, the burning webs, same design for the night sights. Same interactivity with light sources, and even the locked door icon looks like it'd fit in the UI of the Metro series. I don't really know where I stand in regards to the company's hitting them with the book for this, but honestly? This should not have been a paid product. It's too much of a ripoff in visuals/assets. Which would be perfectly fine for an personal project or a modification for a game, but not a paid product. You say he was "Making his living off of this", but consider for a moment that he is almost literally "making a living-" by hand-crafting an existing IP's assets into a personal game.. Just because they're user-made doesn't mean they're not the exact designs, on paper, as the Metro models' creations. There's very little originality in it. It seems like the guy wanted to make Metro:VR. Which is cool, but you know.. it's this thing called an IP, and you can't exactly profit off of that by using very slightly altered some models and selling it as your own content. That is pretty shitty to do, and almost naive in oversight. Especially seeing as some of these models are custom anyway, you didn't NEED to directly 1:1 imitate Metro models in the first place. All you would do is draw attention for a C&D, and what do you know, that's what happened.
The dev is 100% in the right, the game should not be taken down hopefully this can get some traction. Incredibly sad to have years of work taken away like that. It should work as a really good portfolio piece at least
I had my eye on this. Sad to see it go. From your footage it seems to mash up elements like raids from ghosts of tabor, maintainance system from into the radius, and the backpack from walking dead
Good stuff when sharing your experience, not only for player but for the developers to improve the game. I especially appreciate that. At least after watching this, if I were a design dev, I'd have ideas for improvements incase players don't make up for what's not explicitly said.
This is just about the least surprising outcome for this. I mean, when I first saw this I thought they had just ripped assets straight from the Metro games. Could he have argued the point? Maybe but I wouldn't have put money on him coming out on top.
while the game looks nice, there is no denying he took to much inspiration from the main game, its almost a clone but with VR, i did replay the metro series way to many times and i can recognize 70% of the props/textures from this video. while the company could have been more lenient the dev should had not used so much of the original game.
I was waiting for someone doing a Video about this! Some UA-camrs, instead of picking this news up, just deleted thier reviews and forgot about it. Thank you for not doing that.
I know this is something people don't want to hear, but you all haven't played the original Metro games and it shows. So many segments of this game, the mechanics, the way assets look, the spider animations are straight up copied from Metro. The segment where you have to run around and flip switches while spiders chase you, the chase scene on the cart and so many others are not inspired by Metro but rather copied from there. I'm not shilling for a big AAA developer, and it's unfortunate that this happened, but the amount of stuff directly copied from Metro is just too much.
Thank you, finally someone naming some concrete. Everyone else would have you believe he got sued because he chose a setting of the soviet union going to shit bad...
@@virtualinsider for a quick comparison, you can look up the starting chase scene from 2033, the spider section with the Fuze boxes IIRC was in Last Light, but if you look up any footage with them you'll see that their likeness and especially animation are essentially the same. I haven't played through this game myself (but I did see some footage from it), so perhaps the similarities ends on the stuff I listed, which is still quite a bunch.
Thing is, none of those elements are copyrightable. If he literally stole assets and animation, that would be one thing. Maybe the level layouts are too similar (I honestly don't know), but for every mechanic you named, a skilled lawyer could point to dozens of other similar examples in games that preceded the Metro series. If the copyright holder was acting in good faith, they would have given the developer a list of offending elements so that the game could be differentiated. This is likely what would've happened if the developer had the resources to hire a lawyer to respond to the copyright claim.
@@GreyMatterShades I do not know the copyright law, however I do know that multiple companies patented mechanics in the past, such as the Nemesis system or mini games during loading. I do agree, however, that they shouldn't have approached this in the way they did
I bought the game when it dropped! I had no idea this happen. I haven't had the chance to play since real life gets busy and was hoping to play it when it's morre polished. Little did I know - this is how polished the game in my steam library is ever going to be. What a bummer. Oh and I forgot to mention that technically - the metro universe is free for people to create stories in - I am not sure if that only applies to books/stories in written from but...
I love this cleaning feature shown in game, makes it seem really thought out and well done so i hope some other vr games could possibly add this in the future :D
Damn. I enjoyed paradox of hope when I played it but haven't been keeping tabs on it. I'm glad I was able to give him the sale, and get his work in my library before it got taken down.
I remember there was a guy who did this absolutely amazing quake aliens mod back in the day. i was so good that fox sent him a cease and desist order. im not sure if he also made the doom 2 aliens mods or not. but it had so many novel points in it like you could fire flares that stuck to walls to light up areas. its was multiplayer and was a blast. i think fox ended up hiring him in the end to help them make aliens games that dont suck.
I hope they employ the dev, so he can work on an official title for a proper full time wage and be a lead on the project with his portfolio of work he has demonstrated with PoH 🤞🤞
I see Metro 2033 for the theme(heavily), with a mix of mechanics from TWD: S&S for the inventory management and, Into the Radius for the weapon maintenance. I can see at least 2 of these companies throwing the C&D at this guy though but I would of loved a Metro 2033 VR game for sure!
I think he should keep the setting and everything and just change up some of the aesthetics that are nearly ripped from metro like the watch, lamps,lighter and the look of the gas mask (he should absolutely keep the gas mask mechanic in the game though) aswell as changing the spider enemy to not so closely resemble the ones from metro. I think unfortunately the real issue comes from the raid game mode which seems to be directly ripped from metro. All he’d have to do however to change that is add a single step to the gameplay loop. (For example, maybe a Division style loot extract system, where you meet to put it in a hatch or something which transports it to your safe area while cleaning the rads off it). Then he can re release it basically exactly how it is now.
@@fnhatic6694 I forget which game it was, but one of the first two had a dlc with a gamemode like this. You basically went into the metro as a random stalker and brought shit back to sell and upgrade your stuff
I know that the japanese and some asian rights laws requires you to keep a thighter handle on things, this ain't nintendo or tennens, theres no impellent reason!
Metro doesnt have a IP license for gask masks, soviet stories, etc. I think the ittue was more with how closely the enemies and levels those enemies are found in, resembled said enemies and levels in Metro. And honestly, they might have played his game for months until they found a single asset that he warped or texture he used (which is still petty af, but 'go off' i guess...) - we just don't know until we see the cease and desist itself right? I dunno. I think he should just change the enemies and make the opening music sound like an acoustic guitar instead of an electric guitar being played without distortion, also model the lamps slightly different and different gas mask sounds and animation. Just making it all changed a bit from what metro does, kinda like how metro changed what stalker did, and he'll be fine.
"heavy inspiration from the metro series" i think they took more than just inspiration from the metro series, this game basically, from guns to enemies, looks like a direct copy of the metro games
I can see the outrage of having an indie game shut down by a publisher but this game was really walking a fine line. Even if it got past confusing potential customers which is the biggest thing for video game copyright suits. He would lose most likely. Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc. sets the precedent of look and feel being copyrightable. if it looks and feels enough to be pretty damn close to metro and a little too much to be inspired. then there's Atari, Inc. v. North American Philips Consumer Electronics Corp. which sets while two works may not be the same in many regards, if parts/components of the second work are wholly or substantially copied or like the first work, it is copyright infringement. a lot of this is wholly and/or substantially copied. Doing a subtraction or abstraction test this would fail and the PoH would lose the case most likely. Compare that to STALKER and its closest VR inspired game Into The Radius. completely different even if they share some similarities its less of a VR clone. If we do a quick comparison test, Same looking lighter, same web burning mechanic, very similar spider design (spiderbug dev male to be specific), watch is almost the same with the difference being metro uses nixie tubes while PoH is digital and has a green light at the bottom, the Nosalis clone gets a pass, Very similar cart, very similar AK even with cutout mags, the same revolver and supressor combo which is very unique to metro since its a unique smython design, Ranger armor is copied. I don't have time to look at a bunch of lets plays on it but his case would be very hard to defend. I feel bad for the guy and the game seemed cool.
This is the one time I get it. I saw the first few clips and assumed it was a Metro game. There comes a point when influence becomes imitation. I don’t think 4A should have done what they did, but he imitated everything down to the cutout magazines for the AK.
yeah its a shame, but he said he was going to make another game with similar themes but not so that it could be taken down from big companies. I quite enjoyed it.
Lmao. People who are upset over this are annoying. Of course you can't copy art style, esthetic, game mechanics, enemy and level design and SELL IT. I love metro and stalker games and I love slavic post apocalyptic doomer vibes. And I would love to experience it in vr, but dude u just can't copy everything and publish it on steam like it's an official product. Into the radius took some heavy inspirations in stalker and metro (even roadside picnic) but it did it's ovn thing as well. It had unique lore and ideas. Into the radius took inspiration, what this dude done is IP theft. I understand how much work it is to make that game, to modell everything and implement those game mechanics in vr. The dev clearly done a great job. It's unfortunate that there are copyright laws protecting this stuff. If he wanted to make his own product, he could've done what Into the Radius did. If he wanted a Metro vr experience he could've make a overhaul vr mode for something like bonelab or pavlov or whatever. Or even publish this game anonymously on some pirate forums. Just make it as free and unofficial as posible. What this guy did is both tremendous, amazing work and absolutely stupid decision.
I dunno, from everything Ive seen of the game it is quite literally VR Metro. A game that I would say takes good inspiration is Into the Radius, which takes inspiration from STALKER but very heavily does its own thing too alongside that. This game from all I had seen is just what I said before, a slightly reworded Metro game. Maybe I am missing details, but I am surprised it only recently happened and I ended up thinking they had an all clear
@@BadyTheProgram Taking a broad genre "Post-Apocalyptic" is not the as some of the core tenets of a game. Fallout and Metro are both Post-Apocalyptic. Metro, generally, is more story based while Fallout is more open world RPG. All at least in my opinion that could be considered "taken" from Fallout is Nukes, fucked up world and makeshift shit. Metro very clearly differentiates itself from Fallout, but inspirations are always pulled from everywhere and anything. This VR game on the other hand essentially puts you INTO the metros of Metro. It doesn't just take inspiration, it does Russian based metro systems after a post-apocalyptic disaster, which to be frank is mostly what Metro is known for from the outside.
@@SylviaGrimore You are right, but I talking about visual things, not game genre. You can't copyright genres. As an anamateur indi game developer, I made my homework, so I know what is allowed and what is not: You can licence Textures/materials(images), sound effects, musics, 3Dmodells, any type of codes/scripts, "specific texts", fonts, and other similar "grabbable" things. With this logic, For example you can copyright Vintage story, because it looks similar to minecraft or Starbound because it looks like Terraria. Yes, the developer of this game poked the monster because of the similarities, but actually he didn't do anything illegal. Just because something looks like other things is not enough to take town it. Some people just can't defend itself from bigger greedy beasts.
@@BadyTheProgram legally if a product is so close to another that the two could be confused then that is legal grounds to sue, btw those spiders are almost a 1 to 1 copy of the metro spiders
@@fpsgamer2975 that's true, it's the "shape" what is copyrighted. I can't remember the spiders from the Metro, if the developer really copy those spiders, he was an idiot.
What's so ironic to me is that 4A games was at one point, a very small independent studio that also got in a lot of trouble for Copy Right infringement that almost saw the end to their first release (Metro 2033). For some reason, I don't think this is related to 4A. This is probably an issue with Deep silver games/embracer group.
is completely equal to meter. even without having an impact on the sales of the originals, there is an obvious justification for the cease and desist. The best the developer can do is change enough things until it is different enough from the original.
it doesnt take heavy inspiration , its a the metro game , the first scene is obscenely equal to the metro game. 3 minutes into the video and i thought "Oh someone created a mod for VR compatibility in the metro 2033 cool" and then you said its different game... come on this is copyright material, there is a limit of what you can copy , he almost did a 1 to 1 copy of the metro game. Why dont he made a similar game but different instead of lighter use matches, instead of ak put m16, and a few more changes and the copyright wouldve been avoided. DUUUDE! Im looking at the paradox of hope google images and its just like Metro, its a replica wtf man , what do you expect?
Mmm. I'm not one for copyright flexing, but having played all the games in the series multiple times, yeah - some of this is far more than just inspiration. I'd be hard pressed to believe all of this was 100% original work as far as assets go. I could be dead wrong, but I mean... the spider creatures getting harmed by the light, the metro tunnel itself, and ESPECIALLY the weapon carousel in the shop. I'd never seen that design until Metro. Ever.
@@legion5737 Mmyeah. This is plagiarism at best - not outright theft. I can appreciate the desire for the Metro world being explorable in VR, but In the world of copyright, however, plagiarism is fair game for a copyright claim.
This game is giving me heavy combined vibes of Metro, Into The Radius, and The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners. It's really a shame this got taken down. Edit: About 5 seconds after making this comment he mentioned BOTH of the VR games I mentioned in this comment, along with Ghosts of Tabor, which I find funny.
I say he do the same thing have it take place in Londons underground. Making it similar enough fans of the metro series will take interest in it. Hopefully he does, I hate it when big companies push out smaller competitors.
Nah, I get the reason for the Cease and Desist. If you didn't tell me that it wasn't a Metro game I just would have assumed it was. Its nearly Identical to Metro, down to the Art-style; even the look of the Lighter and Watch on the left arm. Even the main character's name, Anton, is close to the Metro game's, Arytom, and that tunnel cart chase scene is ripped straight out of one of the earliest levels of 2033.
4:26 Toilet paper would be a good currency in a post apocalypse game. Could be a tad confusing though: sheets, rolls, packs of different sizes, and then the type of ply.
well to be fair, it does look like a port of a metro 2033 on VR and calling it an OP. I see the spiders and it looks as if their behaviour is replicated from metro series.
The cease and disist could have been because of the inventory system rather than the metro inspiration, because that backpack is identical to the one in the walking dead saints and sinners.
was one of the lucky few to win a giveaway for a key. the giveaway finished a day after it was removed from steam. wish I didn't sleep on it for so long
I'll just throw it out there that if a company does not act on possible copyright infringements, they stand to loose the rights to the ip they are intended to defend.
Man, if Metro is going to C&D this, it may as well C&D Stalker, Tarkov, and literally every other game set in some Russia/USSR era with any sort of guns and looting and maybe monsters.
UPDATE: The developer has been hard at work on changing the game to make sure it doesnt get a strike again and the new page now has a steam page you can wishlist. store.steampowered.com/app/2609610/CONVRGENCE/
Personally I think this new game looks even better than paradox of hope so every cloud has a silver lining and all that.
Any cnd should be taken to court
i legit saw this game earlier today and was like ,damn this is like into the radius ,and had no idea about what happened to his game
it looks like he will be getting a CnD from the devs of STALKER this time
@@-TNT47- I don't think GSC would do that. STALKER got so many copycat and they legit have some mods that you can play for free without the og game. At the same time I can't really say cause the mods were free.
@@LazyLash i really don't believe it either cause i know STALKER devs aren't cunts, just made a comment on how much it looks like stalker. Even the shopkeeper was like a younger version of Sidorovich
damn, I had no idea. Had my eye on it waiting for it to be finished. Feel so sorry for the developer. His situation really isnt fair. Another passionate dev shot down by a big studio for no reason. Wish him luck for what he works on next.
whats worse that these big studios release slop and unfinished games. and they expect us to pay 60-70 usd for it. I am done with this abuse to gamers.
You've got to love those AAA games that don't even work half the time. Big studios are so scared of even a small developer working alone on a game that they will do ANTHING to get rid of the game. The Indie game is probably better than most of their AAA games.
I hate how there are so many games that did or could have had great themes, atmospheres, gameplay, communities, ect. But because a big studio did a sloppy job years before got shut down, never started, or left to rot in obscurity.
@@Stripedspot every Metro game is always finished and high quality and are always on sale for dirt cheap tho?
@@Stripedspot
I don't agree with how the Metro guys are handling this, but every Metro game was completely solid and have given me no issues at all. Like they are truly solid games. Which honestly makes this who situation even more stupid. There is no reason they should have been intimidated by this game.
He is in the clear as far as intellectual property. It's frustrating that developers with millions use their money to gatekeep someone from having their own potential hit game.
If he made the assets for the game, didn't copy designs, locations, characters or story. Then it's ridiculous, because they are basically claiming all of post apocalyptic Russia as their idea.
Yeah, I’m fairly certain STALKER and even Half-Life 2 to a degree beat Metro to the punch on that, so imagine if they sent Metro a C&D to make a point.
sounds like they're doing it just because they know he can't defend himself, they must've been very intimidating. It's so petty though, we're a small market to begin with.
@@VerociityThis is exactly it.
These big studios are run by the same guys who were insecure losers in grade school. This is the first and only time they'll ever have power in their lives and they wield it like the manchildren that they are.
That's exactly it though, it is clearly a really good game.
imagine how much good PR this unnamed company would have gotten if they just gave the dude a job and folded his work into their vr game
Nope makes too much sense.
@@CreatorCadeYeah, expecting companies to make logical decisions is actually crazy talk these days sadly
imagine how this wouldn't be a problem to begin with if the developer used his brain and decided to not make it's inspiration so damn obvious.
I cannot blame companies for protecting their IP's. This game getting a C&D will piss off the few who know about it, but ultimately it will not hurt the company.
If anything the fanboys will side with them.
They could have made the same game without making it such an blatant Metro ripoff. And they could still do something about it. Literally just needs assets swapped, locations changed and such. Easy fix.
Sorry, dev is the one responsible for the situation they're in.
how dare you come up with such a good idea that should of just been done in the first place as that's exactly what i thought of S E I Z E H I M. SEIZE & DESIST! lol. Shame honestly cause if they just put their ego away they could of easily made this into a official Metro VR game if they company could have the foresight.
yea no they are not dude because implying so would mean companies can copy right themes, genera's, and concepts "that predate said company mind you all" to an absolutely absurd and abstract degree. What you are implying is insane to put it bluntly. @@TheCunningStunt
While it definitely took some heavy inspiration from the Metro series, there's no way this should have been hit with a copyright strike. The developer even said they felt like they had a strong case to dispute it, but they didn't have the resources to hire a lawyer to stand up to "the company which shall not be named."
It's such a shame, as the game looks very well done, especially for a single person. He said he was going to make another game using the lessons he learned from this one, but if that doesn't work, hopefully this project can work as an excellent portfolio piece and he can find a job at an established developer.
I think the Paradox of Hope developer could dispute this easily. I understand that it costs money and he's gonna be going up against big corpo layers. That's why this is a shoe in for a crowd-funding situation!
@uromastix87 He wouldnt have even needed a lawyer. He could have just brought the source code and dev notes to courts. "Please show where I have stolen code, assets, story, from you. because I dont see it."
surely he could not only win this case easily, but also make them pay for all his time in court and any losses that constitutes. surely?!
exactly@@cheeeeezewizzz
@@cheeeeezewizzzThat would be in an ideal world.
Sadly, "court" is currently a war of attrition were the company with the most money and willing to continue to sue will win eventually. Looks at what Sega did to some emulators back then.
They first took them to court, Sega lost. Then they took them to court again for another bogus reason. The company couldn't afford another trial so they just gave up.
Even if he won his trial, he would have lost so much time, money and mental that it would still be a loss and he'll probably stop to make game for a long tims
This is the moment when big corpo won't make VR title because of low rate of return from invesment but single guy without their hesistations and constraints can do this so they choosing to cut him off instead of use popularity of his project for their own advantage and create something their own.
Yea, I think they see him as competition when they should try to make him ally ... give the guy a job...he is actually doing the work. But instead, this is one of the many things stifling VR innovation..
@@infiniteblink Agree, "Good job man, maybe you could add our assets, use actual lore and we will publish this as a spinoff for VR since we did not made any". Unfortunatelly in those big publishers there are no people who understand and love games, they are there just to make money and protect trademarks.
Big corpo 💀
I mean it’s clearly a rip off, I’m not offended that he got copyright claimed.
@@LucasCarter2more like taking inspiration but go off 😂
5:38 Haha, you got the unique experience of how non-English people play MOST games. Some games don't even have subtitles
Thats true, never thought about that.
@@virtualinsider English VA was planned for full release
Literally my childhood, some games went from the usual couple weeks or days to complete to taking me months of trial and error.
doesn't everybody speak english nowdays?
@@cURLybOi No. Most of people (80%) don't speak English (± the same amount of people on Earth (20%) know Chinese). More of it, barely people who know English, know it in the level of native speaker.
And if you *don't live* in English-speaking country, you never understand it better than your native language.
Me, for example, can write and read most of things without any translator, watch English videos without subtitles; but in action and when prononcuation is unclear, some accents (in Lone Echo it was harder to understand English for me), you don't have as clear understanding of speech as in your language.
For easiest understanding of how it works, try to listen someone in English when he is eating and speaking simulatniusly, using obsolete words, changes word orders in inappropriate way, and have american villager accent. You can understand most of what they will say, but you spend some effort to understand it and overall it's better to hear just normal English. Something simmilar when English is not your native.
Wow, that's sucks. I had Paradox of Hope on my radar to play whenever it was finished, but I guess I missed the boat. Damn.
Same.
I was already watching this video again a few days ago, but little did I expect the timing to be perfect after seeing the trailer for the new VR Metro game. Still sad what happened, but at least the developer on Paradox was able to bounce back.
And this is fucking outrageous ! That game was so immersive !
Its baffling how 99.9% of people in comments dont get the issue.
Yes I do feel for the guy, who spent a lot of effort, time and put in the soul.
But the issue is obvious to anyone - it does look like CTRL+C CTRL+V of Metro series, in both visuals and gameplay mechanics.
Yes, 4A Games does not own the soviet-post-apocalyptic setting and gas masks, but they do own designs. This game literally copies look of monsters (see spiders, those buff ghouls), weapons (rifles, mags), even watch and lighter clearly look "very much inspider".
Good examples: Into the radius is not STALKER, despite having the Zone and the arftifacts.
Wish all the good to the dev, I really hope the dude gets a deal with some publisher and a puts this work to good use with a bit of reskinning.
3:58 “take out the lamps, lighters, and gas mask as to not get copyrighted”
That’s how rediculous the C&D is
I dont believe this is what caused the C&D.
Like the spiders that are literally the same as in Metro, the generators and ESPECIALLY the fuse power boxes look identical, the medkits too. Further the buggy and the on rail section shown at the beginning are pretty much 1:1 copies too.
Its blatantly obvious that a lot of assets are pretty much copied, i cant believe that nobody sees it.
Although, it is definitely a great idea and concept of a game, it doesnt change the fact that a lot of things are copies of the Metro games.
@@pixelgem6264 If he made those assets him self, then those are his assets, even if those look very similar if not same, there is still differences. It would been best to contact the creator and ask him to change few things here and there and not go full C&D, but on other hand if they dont defend their title its seen as abandonware in eyes of the law how ever stupid that is. That latter part should really be adjusted to more kin of if you dont make product in X amount of time you loose your copyright and not if you allow people copy your IP you loose it..
I'd be immediately comparing the company in question's copyrights VS the content Paradox of Hope has. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave a cease and desist without entirely legal grounds with the hope that an indie developer wouldn't want to bleed money into the court system.
It's definitely this. There are similarities to the Metro series for sure, but I don't think any of those elements can actually be copyrighted. There might be an argument for the overall similarity of the title, but that'd be pretty feeble imo, and the developer should have been given the opportunity to differentiate their game from the Metro games, including a list of all the offending elements from the publisher.
@@GreyMatterShades The gameplay isn't trademarked as far as I know and aesthetics wise Metro doesn't own the soviet commie-era visuals any more than GSC does with Stalker or Valve with Half-Life 2
they took from roadside picnic, so they definitely don't have that.@@OfficialDJSoru
@@OfficialDJSoru For the love of fuck, it's not the visuals that they've copyrighted. Spider bugs are 1 for 1 copied from Metro to PoH, mechanics and all.
The AK is 1 for 1 almost identical to the AK74-M, right down to the open mag orange bakelite mag.
The armoured suit is so incredibly similar to the one you can buy in Metro.
The bullet lighter you use for lighting your way and burning way the spider webs in the metro.
The railcar you use to go from base to raid is nearly identical to the one you have in Metro Last Light.
The fact that the watch is tied to how long your gas mask filter lasts is 100% identical to Metro's usage of it.
The music is next to identical.
The list goes on, as much as it's painful to see a honest to god good indie dev get shot down like this, they really did not make it hard for a company to do something like this unfortunately.
This is EXACTLY what happened. The dev stated it himself that he had no money to fight it, so he surrendered.
time for a boycott
Yup
lol boycott who?
"All russian apocalyptic games"
@@MojoRisingTV had to be the new stalker game devs
why would it be them? surley its the metro devs/publisher???@@TheChuyDewy
Time to pirate
Metro doesn't own post apocalypse in russia, gasmasks or their mechanics in a game, what he needs to do is make the creatures a hell of a lot more distinct, the spiders that are harmed by light is a dead giveaway as to what he was taking heavy inspiration from.
I love this game, and I'm sad that one of my favourite franchises is doing this to a small time dev, the guys done a brilliant job making this, and realistically the only thing that should happen is that he gets hired by the "Unnamed company"
It's so dumb that something even as simple as "spiders harmed by light" would cause this in the first place.
@@DarkSwordsman I think the issue is it's so remarkably similar to say it's not is just about lying. You can see though that the creator knew he was skirting a fine line and changed it just enough to seemingly get away with it for so long. But honestly, it's still sad. If it were me in the unnamed companies position, I would hire him. Plain and simple, a project of this nature shows nothing but passion for the source material. Hire him to keep making it and give him the ability to rebrand it under the license of the game. That's just smart business in my eyes.
@@sirspamalot4014 Breacher’s VR has copied literal rainbow six maps to the fucking window lmao. Not to mention the original metro IP stole multiple things from the stalker development studio as they were originally all one studio, but split up
Even minecraft has spiders effected by light @@DarkSwordsman
@@sirspamalot4014 It has similar elements, yes, but those elements aren't unique to the Metro series.
I saw this story on Reddit yesterday and it made me upset, because this dev spent so much time and hard work to make this game and I was waiting until it had a little more content before I picked it up and now it's just gone forever. So incredibly frustrating. I will definitely make sure to support the dev's next game! We've got to keep tabs on what comes next!
You’re upset? Don’t buy the next game from the people who struck him down
Imagine supporting asset theft
@@zyhgar25he didn’t steal assets numbskull
heavily inspired, sure. but no assets were taken
@@zyhgar25Dude, did you not watch the vid? It is not asset theft.
If it is asset theft, surely you don't mind explaining how yeah?
i think that most likely it was the publisher and not 4a itself, given that 4a seems relatively supportive of mods and such
You are very much mistaken. This is a problem of any Ukrainian studio. If they had the resources like other major studios, we would have a world like in 1984
@user-qx8kf3st8t kremlinbot trying not to hate on ukraine for 10s: (impossible)
Look at the stalker games, gsc gameworld lets the free standalone mods like anomaly exist
@@user-qx8kf3st8t ... pardon?
also the fact that they have their own metro vr game in the works
happy people who bought it can still play it. one of my favorite games. I hope he can get it back up
This is upsetting but not surprising, a lot of companies have a history of doing this, in particular Nintendo (although I’m admittedly thinking more of fan projects, which isn’t a fair comparison). Due to you noting how similar things like the menu music I hope that the game can be put back up with things like the music changed that are too similar.
Edit:I get this is personal preference, but I don’t see why the weapon mechanics in things like ITR being too system heavy being a bad thing. Games having heavy system elements is an important part of any game (flat screen OR VR) for immersion IMO. A couple good examples are the rougelikes Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead and to a lesser extent Streets Of Rouge.
I prefer deeper mechanics. The more obtuse and difficult it is the more immersive it feels.
ITR has absolutely fantastic weapon mechanics, I enjoy them. The border between realistic immersion and gamey.
More games should be allowed to go wild. If someone doesn't like super light arcadey shooters where you don't even have to reload then they don't have to play them. If someone doesn't like games that take the ARMA approach even further then they don't have to play them.
Although this isn't universal by any means, mechanically heavy games often have a lot of trouble in VR, since the mechanics either don't translate properly, or having to do everything with your actual hands makes then infinitely more tedious.
yeah for nintendo, well yeah it's nintendo. one of my favorite fangames to have ever been made was one called pokemon brick bronze, it had good story, design, and some dang GOOD music. but it got too popular and was shut down permanently by nintendo. : (
This is one of those moments you wish the the Metro devs would just hire this guy to do a VR port or spin-off of the series. The guy's got talent, especially if he made this by his lonesome.
The company is Ukrainian, and the developer is from Russia, I think this served as a lawsuit due to "violation of copyright"
When I first saw the game, I thought it would end like this.
@@seniorilay8291 what’s really shitty is that original stalker devs accused metro devs of stealing multiple things when they left the company so it’s very hypocritical of them to go and start seeing other people are stealing their stuff when they infect stole it themselves.
@@taylorpennington8126 The developers of STALKER recently sent out copyright strikes to Russian bloggers for publishing screenshots of their game, so perhaps they're to blame in this case as well
Corpos hate creativity if it's not their creativity. Business majors are violently opposed to the very concept of anyone being good at anything but themselves.
It wasn't 4A games it was Deep Silver, this guy is Liar.
could easily be reskinned into a half life fan game, i'm sure valve would allow that, and it would be awesome
Imagine if Valve wound up endorsing it after this. That would be good headlines for Valve for sure.
Valve would pay bro
Chad Valve vs Virgin "Unnamed Company"
Valve needs to protect their IP, so I'm not sure they would. It's not always out of maliciousness that certain projects are taken down, it's due to how copyright law works.
@@hillehai they allowed hunt down the freeman to be sold on their platform, and gave the green light to black mesa, so it would not be out of character for valve
Paradox of Hope had very similar elements to Metro series: gas mask and watch mechanics; burning webs; armored giga spiders; main metro theme. Not good, but pretty common thing in Steam library. When shit happened, dev tried to remove some content. Publisher refused to negotiate and pressed the delete button by money bag. Thus, they directly attacked the developer and us, (vr) players. This is unforgivable act of content suppressing, imho (like Rockstar and Nintendo).
It's absolutely despicable that a company wouldn't even be willing to negotiate or accept changes, especially when their claim of copyright infringement was so feeble to begin with. Nobody has a copyright on a post-apocalyptic setting, or the Russian metro system, or gas masks, or watch based GUI mechanics, or even mutated spiders.
The modern legal system is practically pay-to-win, and this just highlights that problem.
That's the developer's own fault. He shouldn't have budged. Similarities aren't enough to claim copyright, there's tons of games who share a lot of similarities with other games and there's no legal issue there. Even more than this game shares with the Metro games. Of course what accuser is doing is awful, but there are ways to fight it.
Just a small signal boost, but IronMace games, makers of Dark and Darker is being sued by Nexon. Nexon claims that the company is infringing their copyright because, and I quote, "their games both has knights and wizards in them" and as a result Valve had to remove D&D from their steam page.
You don't even need a legitimate reason. You can just make something up and bring them to court over and over until the smaller company loses by default.
@@PinkManGuy They do have to be careful though. While an individual small indie developer may not have the resources to defend themselves in court, if a big company does this to too many small developers, there could be grounds for those developers to partner up and pursue a class action lawsuit.
It is really unfortunate though. I wish platform holders would require more proof, evidence, or solid ground before taking down indies at the behest of larger companies. You see similar stuff happening on UA-cam with DMCA takedowns and copyright strikes against smaller channels. These legal tools are being weaponized by large companies against small creators who lack the means to defend themselves.
@@thenonexistingherothe problem is that sometimes shotty cases like this can still end up going through and the dev didnt want to put his life in jeopardy or atleast not that much.
If I watched this video with the sound off, I would think that this was a early look at a Metro 2033 VR game. Thats how close he modeled everything to Metro, the watch, burning the webs, how the weapons buying rack work, the backpack/working on guns on the workbench, the railcar moving while shooting back at enemies, the ak mags with the sides taken off. You have to admit, if this were a game where you were a jedi lookin guy with a lightsword and this many similarities Disney would come after them.
im glad creators like you are mentioning this, thank you. Finding out that this beautiful game getting shot down like a bird is the most frustrating thing.
man i was so excited for this game it was probably one of the best indie vr games i've ever played
Man that sucks. This was one I was looking forward to. I was just waiting for it to be a more complete campaign before purchasing.
It's incredible that one person was able to make such a game, not to mention it's in VR which is even more challenging to develop than traditional games. Sad to see that all this work is now bascially wasted, but I hope they'll try to make another game with what they learned.
The dev wrote on the discord to not make it worse by sending bad stuff towards the copyright holders and they will just spin the project into something else.
Screw what the copyright holders think!
@@Brasslantern007 How about what the dev is thinking and asking?
@@Brasslantern007You are pretty much saying "Screw the developers wishes".
As much as I am angry at the publisher, Don't.
@@Ozzianman just politely tell them you'll never buy their games again. Nobody can get mad about that
@@saakerswhy are you hating on the dev anyway i feel bad for the poor guy
Big L to Metro publishers
Could be the publishers rather than the devs
@@aladontheinternet6363 yep
I'll never buy from either again. I'm done
Whoever it was, it's the same people that sold Metro Exodus to Epic Games Store for a full year TWO DAYS before Steam release. Such a scummy move.
Not devs, metro devs made a great game and I’m sure they’d be happy to see people iterating on their work, publishers make the shitty money decisions
I love your videos. It would be interesting to see a video comparing the game over or "death" screens of different VR games. I'm curious how different games have handled it.
People need to learn that a cease and desist letter has no legal weight behind it, all it means is that someone paid a lawyer to write the letter for them to look more intimidating.
I ended up getting a VR Valve Index and i must say, thank you, your videos and articulation of details in VR has been especially valuable to me, especially the recommended mods for Half Life Alyx, as the merciless mod imo changes the enemies into Lore based enemies that behave like the rest of the games, that for me was a HUUGE improvement and i never would of found if it was not for you.
As that mod is BURIED in the workshop, especially if your just browsing recent, or most subscribed, even the filters didn't help.
Anyway, thank you, keep up the good work, ima be following along from here on essentially.
Is there a community discord to be joined by the way?
discord.gg/D8w29KVM that my discord server
Stalker publisher should sue Into the radius, and Tarkov publisher should sue Tabor.
On a "bright" side, the fact that they even noticed him means VR is no longer ignored by big publishers ;) Cold comfort.
Dont give them any ideas.
actually, stalker 2 "devs" are attacking yt channels that has any videos from stalker series (trailer, gameplay, etc). Some channels could be deleted after 3 copyright strikes.
ITR is pretty original but Tabor could be in danger. But I don't think that Tarkov devs has enough hatred and money for acting
Tbh I wouldn't even mind tarkov devs going after tabor devs. I think it's a great game but it is very clearly a straight rip off of Tarkov. All the way down to the way they handle their "dlc packs" (lol) and server wipes.
@@jedizhawk ohhh they do. They hate sptarkov so much even though it checks to see if you paid for tarkov. All it does is let you play tarkov offline in a single player lobby but they absolutely hate it with a passion. I wouldn't put it past them to go after tabor lol
Influence? Inspiration? No, that's more than heavy inspiration. They did almost everything short of literally ripping models. They worked up the same exact watch design, very similar magazine design for the rifle, the lighter, the burning webs, same design for the night sights. Same interactivity with light sources, and even the locked door icon looks like it'd fit in the UI of the Metro series.
I don't really know where I stand in regards to the company's hitting them with the book for this, but honestly? This should not have been a paid product. It's too much of a ripoff in visuals/assets. Which would be perfectly fine for an personal project or a modification for a game, but not a paid product. You say he was "Making his living off of this", but consider for a moment that he is almost literally "making a living-" by hand-crafting an existing IP's assets into a personal game.. Just because they're user-made doesn't mean they're not the exact designs, on paper, as the Metro models' creations. There's very little originality in it. It seems like the guy wanted to make Metro:VR. Which is cool, but you know.. it's this thing called an IP, and you can't exactly profit off of that by using very slightly altered some models and selling it as your own content. That is pretty shitty to do, and almost naive in oversight.
Especially seeing as some of these models are custom anyway, you didn't NEED to directly 1:1 imitate Metro models in the first place. All you would do is draw attention for a C&D, and what do you know, that's what happened.
"heavy inspiration" dude that first scene is basically a Metro level. Like jeez dude I'm not surprised
The dev is 100% in the right, the game should not be taken down hopefully this can get some traction. Incredibly sad to have years of work taken away like that. It should work as a really good portfolio piece at least
I had my eye on this. Sad to see it go. From your footage it seems to mash up elements like raids from ghosts of tabor, maintainance system from into the radius, and the backpack from walking dead
Is there any way we could support the dev?
Good stuff when sharing your experience, not only for player but for the developers to improve the game. I especially appreciate that.
At least after watching this, if I were a design dev, I'd have ideas for improvements incase players don't make up for what's not explicitly said.
This is just about the least surprising outcome for this. I mean, when I first saw this I thought they had just ripped assets straight from the Metro games.
Could he have argued the point? Maybe but I wouldn't have put money on him coming out on top.
while the game looks nice, there is no denying he took to much inspiration from the main game, its almost a clone but with VR, i did replay the metro series way to many times and i can recognize 70% of the props/textures from this video. while the company could have been more lenient the dev should had not used so much of the original game.
I was waiting for someone doing a Video about this!
Some UA-camrs, instead of picking this news up, just deleted thier reviews and forgot about it. Thank you for not doing that.
We call them cowards
It's sad that copyright scam can destroy author's content, especially of passionate fans
commentary was quality comedy gold 😂 - new sub.
I know this is something people don't want to hear, but you all haven't played the original Metro games and it shows. So many segments of this game, the mechanics, the way assets look, the spider animations are straight up copied from Metro. The segment where you have to run around and flip switches while spiders chase you, the chase scene on the cart and so many others are not inspired by Metro but rather copied from there.
I'm not shilling for a big AAA developer, and it's unfortunate that this happened, but the amount of stuff directly copied from Metro is just too much.
Thank you, finally someone naming some concrete. Everyone else would have you believe he got sued because he chose a setting of the soviet union going to shit bad...
Thats interesting to read, I will admit I only played the second game so didnt realise some parts of the game are just straight up copies.
@@virtualinsider for a quick comparison, you can look up the starting chase scene from 2033, the spider section with the Fuze boxes IIRC was in Last Light, but if you look up any footage with them you'll see that their likeness and especially animation are essentially the same. I haven't played through this game myself (but I did see some footage from it), so perhaps the similarities ends on the stuff I listed, which is still quite a bunch.
Thing is, none of those elements are copyrightable. If he literally stole assets and animation, that would be one thing. Maybe the level layouts are too similar (I honestly don't know), but for every mechanic you named, a skilled lawyer could point to dozens of other similar examples in games that preceded the Metro series.
If the copyright holder was acting in good faith, they would have given the developer a list of offending elements so that the game could be differentiated. This is likely what would've happened if the developer had the resources to hire a lawyer to respond to the copyright claim.
@@GreyMatterShades I do not know the copyright law, however I do know that multiple companies patented mechanics in the past, such as the Nemesis system or mini games during loading. I do agree, however, that they shouldn't have approached this in the way they did
Sad day, hope the dev figures out a way to still receive support! ❤
I bought the game when it dropped! I had no idea this happen. I haven't had the chance to play since real life gets busy and was hoping to play it when it's morre polished. Little did I know - this is how polished the game in my steam library is ever going to be.
What a bummer.
Oh and I forgot to mention that technically - the metro universe is free for people to create stories in - I am not sure if that only applies to books/stories in written from but...
I love this cleaning feature shown in game, makes it seem really thought out and well done so i hope some other vr games could possibly add this in the future :D
It’s always incredibly disgusting when companies bully indie devs out of the market, simply because they’re a threat, no matter how small
Props for bringing attention to this!
Damn. I enjoyed paradox of hope when I played it but haven't been keeping tabs on it.
I'm glad I was able to give him the sale, and get his work in my library before it got taken down.
If it doesn't get back on Steam, it's a big loss for VR community in my opinion. Let's hope that people will remember about this.
"heavy inspiration" or...asset porting. No shit it got striked down. stealing is stealing no matter how little you care.
I remember there was a guy who did this absolutely amazing quake aliens mod back in the day. i was so good that fox sent him a cease and desist order. im not sure if he also made the doom 2 aliens mods or not. but it had so many novel points in it like you could fire flares that stuck to walls to light up areas. its was multiplayer and was a blast. i think fox ended up hiring him in the end to help them make aliens games that dont suck.
He needs to get together with the Ghosts of Tabor crew
We really need to have a good hard look at updating copyright law. It's getting out of hand.
I hope they employ the dev, so he can work on an official title for a proper full time wage and be a lead on the project with his portfolio of work he has demonstrated with PoH 🤞🤞
The fact the metro game series foundation is built on stolen assets makes this pretty funny.
I see Metro 2033 for the theme(heavily), with a mix of mechanics from TWD: S&S for the inventory management and, Into the Radius for the weapon maintenance.
I can see at least 2 of these companies throwing the C&D at this guy though but I would of loved a Metro 2033 VR game for sure!
I think he should keep the setting and everything and just change up some of the aesthetics that are nearly ripped from metro like the watch, lamps,lighter and the look of the gas mask (he should absolutely keep the gas mask mechanic in the game though) aswell as changing the spider enemy to not so closely resemble the ones from metro. I think unfortunately the real issue comes from the raid game mode which seems to be directly ripped from metro. All he’d have to do however to change that is add a single step to the gameplay loop. (For example, maybe a Division style loot extract system, where you meet to put it in a hatch or something which transports it to your safe area while cleaning the rads off it). Then he can re release it basically exactly how it is now.
Since when does Metro have anything like Raids?
@@fnhatic6694 I forget which game it was, but one of the first two had a dlc with a gamemode like this. You basically went into the metro as a random stalker and brought shit back to sell and upgrade your stuff
@@absolutegoatfuck5019 I think you're thinking of stalker, but i might be wrong.
Damn shame that the company who shall not be named would take this down, hope the dev is able to get some version of the game back out
No I will shame and blame them! They're worth billions and they're gonna go after small potatoes like this?? Give me a break!
I know that the japanese and some asian rights laws requires you to keep a thighter handle on things, this ain't nintendo or tennens, theres no impellent reason!
Metro doesnt have a IP license for gask masks, soviet stories, etc. I think the ittue was more with how closely the enemies and levels those enemies are found in, resembled said enemies and levels in Metro. And honestly, they might have played his game for months until they found a single asset that he warped or texture he used (which is still petty af, but 'go off' i guess...) - we just don't know until we see the cease and desist itself right? I dunno. I think he should just change the enemies and make the opening music sound like an acoustic guitar instead of an electric guitar being played without distortion, also model the lamps slightly different and different gas mask sounds and animation. Just making it all changed a bit from what metro does, kinda like how metro changed what stalker did, and he'll be fine.
I played this. Sad it's gone. Was looking forward to what was to come.
"heavy inspiration from the metro series" i think they took more than just inspiration from the metro series, this game basically, from guns to enemies, looks like a direct copy of the metro games
the raid system sounds awesome maybe even add some liminal space horror
As always: If it's good, they will find a way to destroy it...
I can see the outrage of having an indie game shut down by a publisher but this game was really walking a fine line.
Even if it got past confusing potential customers which is the biggest thing for video game copyright suits.
He would lose most likely. Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc. sets the precedent of look and feel being copyrightable. if it looks and feels enough to be pretty damn close to metro and a little too much to be inspired.
then there's Atari, Inc. v. North American Philips Consumer Electronics Corp. which sets while two works may not be the same in many regards, if parts/components of the second work are wholly or substantially copied or like the first work, it is copyright infringement. a lot of this is wholly and/or substantially copied.
Doing a subtraction or abstraction test this would fail and the PoH would lose the case most likely.
Compare that to STALKER and its closest VR inspired game Into The Radius. completely different even if they share some similarities its less of a VR clone.
If we do a quick comparison test, Same looking lighter, same web burning mechanic, very similar spider design (spiderbug dev male to be specific), watch is almost the same with the difference being metro uses nixie tubes while PoH is digital and has a green light at the bottom, the Nosalis clone gets a pass, Very similar cart, very similar AK even with cutout mags, the same revolver and supressor combo which is very unique to metro since its a unique smython design, Ranger armor is copied.
I don't have time to look at a bunch of lets plays on it but his case would be very hard to defend. I feel bad for the guy and the game seemed cool.
I'm glad someone else sees this. Dev flew too close to the sun here.
This is the one time I get it. I saw the first few clips and assumed it was a Metro game. There comes a point when influence becomes imitation. I don’t think 4A should have done what they did, but he imitated everything down to the cutout magazines for the AK.
the raid system sounds like a combination of tabor and radius, hopefully if it gets a sort of reboot that is kept
yeah its a shame, but he said he was going to make another game with similar themes but not so that it could be taken down from big companies. I quite enjoyed it.
Lmao. People who are upset over this are annoying.
Of course you can't copy art style, esthetic, game mechanics, enemy and level design and SELL IT.
I love metro and stalker games and I love slavic post apocalyptic doomer vibes. And I would love to experience it in vr, but dude u just can't copy everything and publish it on steam like it's an official product.
Into the radius took some heavy inspirations in stalker and metro (even roadside picnic) but it did it's ovn thing as well. It had unique lore and ideas.
Into the radius took inspiration, what this dude done is IP theft.
I understand how much work it is to make that game, to modell everything and implement those game mechanics in vr. The dev clearly done a great job. It's unfortunate that there are copyright laws protecting this stuff.
If he wanted to make his own product, he could've done what Into the Radius did. If he wanted a Metro vr experience he could've make a overhaul vr mode for something like bonelab or pavlov or whatever. Or even publish this game anonymously on some pirate forums. Just make it as free and unofficial as posible.
What this guy did is both tremendous, amazing work and absolutely stupid decision.
I dunno, from everything Ive seen of the game it is quite literally VR Metro. A game that I would say takes good inspiration is Into the Radius, which takes inspiration from STALKER but very heavily does its own thing too alongside that. This game from all I had seen is just what I said before, a slightly reworded Metro game. Maybe I am missing details, but I am surprised it only recently happened and I ended up thinking they had an all clear
When first played Metro, it felt like "Russian Falllout". We should copyright claim 4A Games because they are clearly copying Bethesda.
@@BadyTheProgram Taking a broad genre "Post-Apocalyptic" is not the as some of the core tenets of a game. Fallout and Metro are both Post-Apocalyptic. Metro, generally, is more story based while Fallout is more open world RPG. All at least in my opinion that could be considered "taken" from Fallout is Nukes, fucked up world and makeshift shit. Metro very clearly differentiates itself from Fallout, but inspirations are always pulled from everywhere and anything. This VR game on the other hand essentially puts you INTO the metros of Metro. It doesn't just take inspiration, it does Russian based metro systems after a post-apocalyptic disaster, which to be frank is mostly what Metro is known for from the outside.
@@SylviaGrimore You are right, but I talking about visual things, not game genre. You can't copyright genres.
As an anamateur indi game developer, I made my homework, so I know what is allowed and what is not:
You can licence Textures/materials(images), sound effects, musics, 3Dmodells, any type of codes/scripts, "specific texts", fonts, and other similar "grabbable" things. With this logic, For example you can copyright Vintage story, because it looks similar to minecraft or Starbound because it looks like Terraria. Yes, the developer of this game poked the monster because of the similarities, but actually he didn't do anything illegal. Just because something looks like other things is not enough to take town it. Some people just can't defend itself from bigger greedy beasts.
@@BadyTheProgram legally if a product is so close to another that the two could be confused then that is legal grounds to sue, btw those spiders are almost a 1 to 1 copy of the metro spiders
@@fpsgamer2975 that's true, it's the "shape" what is copyrighted. I can't remember the spiders from the Metro, if the developer really copy those spiders, he was an idiot.
What's so ironic to me is that 4A games was at one point, a very small independent studio that also got in a lot of trouble for Copy Right infringement that almost saw the end to their first release (Metro 2033). For some reason, I don't think this is related to 4A. This is probably an issue with Deep silver games/embracer group.
Damn that’s trash
is completely equal to meter. even without having an impact on the sales of the originals, there is an obvious justification for the cease and desist.
The best the developer can do is change enough things until it is different enough from the original.
If they were smart they should have hired him to help make a Metro VR game. Clearly the guy has a lot of talent
Damn that’s too bad. Good thing I have it lol. It’s really fun
Here after Metro Awakening’s trailer was released, and now I think I may have some idea as to why the copyright strike happened when it did.
wow, this is crazy, i actually really enjoyed playing this game, that’s really a shame that it’s taken down
it doesnt take heavy inspiration , its a the metro game , the first scene is obscenely equal to the metro game.
3 minutes into the video and i thought "Oh someone created a mod for VR compatibility in the metro 2033 cool" and then you said its different game... come on this is copyright material, there is a limit of what you can copy , he almost did a 1 to 1 copy of the metro game.
Why dont he made a similar game but different instead of lighter use matches, instead of ak put m16, and a few more changes and the copyright wouldve been avoided.
DUUUDE! Im looking at the paradox of hope google images and its just like Metro, its a replica wtf man , what do you expect?
Mmm. I'm not one for copyright flexing, but having played all the games in the series multiple times, yeah - some of this is far more than just inspiration. I'd be hard pressed to believe all of this was 100% original work as far as assets go. I could be dead wrong, but I mean... the spider creatures getting harmed by the light, the metro tunnel itself, and ESPECIALLY the weapon carousel in the shop. I'd never seen that design until Metro. Ever.
Honestly from what was shown of the game the best way I can describe it is copying an essay then changing a few words and calling it your own.
@@legion5737 Mmyeah. This is plagiarism at best - not outright theft. I can appreciate the desire for the Metro world being explorable in VR, but In the world of copyright, however, plagiarism is fair game for a copyright claim.
I had no clue, glad i have this backed up. Keep backups of your major updates gamers!!!
"Heartless & Dreadful Return by 72 Hours" its another small game that was made by a single dev which is inspired by the Devil May Cry series
Owww and I didn't get to buy it. It seemed like a good game but now it's gone.
Could always "borrow it from a friend". A shame we cant support the dev though
@@Chadnik_ yep. Idk why VRPirates isn't working anymore for me.
If I was in place of "4A studios" I would hire this young man as a lead developer of VR Metro 2033...
it was rly short but it actually scarted me and was rly well made i hope he doesnt give up on Developing bcs of this
Now we know an official game was being made.
This game is giving me heavy combined vibes of Metro, Into The Radius, and The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners. It's really a shame this got taken down.
Edit: About 5 seconds after making this comment he mentioned BOTH of the VR games I mentioned in this comment, along with Ghosts of Tabor, which I find funny.
Such a shame, the VR space needs passion projects like this.
the chest and backpack are straight out of walking dead vr lmao
I say he do the same thing have it take place in Londons underground. Making it similar enough fans of the metro series will take interest in it. Hopefully he does, I hate it when big companies push out smaller competitors.
Nah, I get the reason for the Cease and Desist. If you didn't tell me that it wasn't a Metro game I just would have assumed it was. Its nearly Identical to Metro, down to the Art-style; even the look of the Lighter and Watch on the left arm. Even the main character's name, Anton, is close to the Metro game's, Arytom, and that tunnel cart chase scene is ripped straight out of one of the earliest levels of 2033.
this is crazy. they should have PAID him instead of threatening him.
4:26 Toilet paper would be a good currency in a post apocalypse game.
Could be a tad confusing though: sheets, rolls, packs of different sizes, and then the type of ply.
Guys the same developer made a new game just like this. It’s called convergence you can buy it now for like I don’t know bucks
well to be fair, it does look like a port of a metro 2033 on VR and calling it an OP. I see the spiders and it looks as if their behaviour is replicated from metro series.
And most games does not support even russian subs. So yeah, now you know how it feels
This is just one of the 99 reasons why I don't spend money on AAA studious
The cease and disist could have been because of the inventory system rather than the metro inspiration, because that backpack is identical to the one in the walking dead saints and sinners.
was one of the lucky few to win a giveaway for a key. the giveaway finished a day after it was removed from steam. wish I didn't sleep on it for so long
I'll just throw it out there that if a company does not act on possible copyright infringements, they stand to loose the rights to the ip they are intended to defend.
That is trademarks and trademarks only (in the US at least). You do not need to actively enforce your copyrights here to retain your rights to them.
If Valve can let Black Mesa be sold on the steam store, I think the other devs are fine.
Accept just because it's set in Russian during an apocalypse with gas masks doesn't make it copyright. Otherwise stalker could sue metro
@@Freezorgium That is because Valve gave explicit permission for it to be sold.
Man, if Metro is going to C&D this, it may as well C&D Stalker, Tarkov, and literally every other game set in some Russia/USSR era with any sort of guns and looting and maybe monsters.
I'd like to see them try it with stalker considering it was out first