I like your policy , but ihmo way to early to go back to the game , six months at least , I play a lot of early access, and it normally takes at least that to iron out problems sometimes longer
Jesus is the only way to heaven Being a good person won’t get you there. “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6 ESV Repent from your sin(disobedience to God) and turn to God and follow Him so that you will be saved “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9 ESV “No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” Luke 13:3 ESV:
I wish to see what Gollum's life was like before he killed his friend. The game should begin showing where he lived when he was just a regular, young Hobbit, and handsome Smeagol. The game should explore his house, his neighborhood, and other Hobbits like him. I would like to see Deagle knocking on Smeagol's door asking him to go fishing. After killing his friend, how does Smeagol transform into Gollum? What happens when he loses the ring in the cave and frantically tries to find it? What does Gollum think and do when he runs into Bilbo Baggins? What is the game of riddles like from Gollum's point of view instead of Bilbo's? The game should show Bilbo ditching Gollum, Gollum looking all over Middle-earth for Bilbo and the ring, being captured by Sauron and his army, getting tortured by Sauron, revealing where the ring is, and then either escaping or being set loose. After he leaves Sauron's castle, Gollum can meet Shelob the giant spider, explore the Northeast part of Middle Earth, wander around Mirkwood, and meet the Black Riders (aka the Nazgul) who are looking for Gollum. and as Gollum, you have to avoid them like Frodo would in The Shire Gollum escapes the black riders but gets captured by Aragorn and Gandalf. He brought to the elf king of Mirkwood who throws Gollum into jail. Again Gollum escapes reaching the elf King's Palace just like Bilbo did in The Hobbit. Gollum can next wander around the Misty Mountains finding his way into a cave that extends to a chasm in the mines of Moria. Aragon, Gandalf, and Frodo are also traveling through the mines of Moria. Gollum follows them. Gollum could also travel through the forest of Lorian trying to avoid the wood elves by swimming down the Anduin River. it would be interesting to see Gollum spy on Frodo's confersation with Galraderal and It would be interesting for Gollum to run into Frodo and Sam in the forest after they ambush him. Gollum guides them to Mordor just like in the movie and the book, however, the game/story should all be from Gollum's point of view. this is what I would like to see in the Lord of the Rings game you're making about Gollum's Point of view so what do you think?
I know a guy who did mocap for this game. The studio had apparently never done mocap before, they had to rent the equipment and had no designated space to do it. Also, he was just instructed to, you know… try out different moves. No "here's this character, this is what he would move like, these are the moves we need". Safe to say, they didn't have much of a plan and were making it up as they went.
Daedalic the studio is mostly known for indie 2d point & click adventures like Deponia or Night of the Rabbit. They really have never done anything like this. Plus apparently the work environment had been horrible for years so that they had no experienced employees and heavily relied on interns.
I don't know what they were smoking, but I dunno if I am crazy, but I think I remember in the reveal for this game, Gollum looked better. And as @jdkbriggs here says, the voice is shit, I know people that don't do VA professionally that do way better Gollum voice then whatever that was.
I love my wife - she'll be out shopping and just randomly decide to surprise me with a game. It's super cute, but she never checks reviews and isn't a gamer herself, so this was one of those games that she bought me on a whim lol.
I was worried my husband might buy it for me for my birthday since he saw me watching people play it and asked me about it and I didn’t specifically say it’s terrible. Thankfully he didn’t.
Critical hit! - Seriously, that's one good thing about bad games! They entertain you in other ways and safe you money, if you didn't buy them (and probably never will, unless they turn them around and even then: Wait for the bargain-bin!)
I'm absolutely convinced there's an interesting story about this game. And what happened here. It's always more complicated than anyone gives credit to.
Honestly what this game DID do well was in the concept art stage. I like the designs and weird outfits everyone has. It's very 70s. Not great execution in the game itself but it's clear some really good artists were on the art development team.
Wow hi puff, never thought I'd see you here, did you watch the Efap episode of this game already? It's my favorite episode from them. The game was made by Daedelic Entertainment which made incredible point and click adventure games with a more hand drawn style graphics, I love their adaptation of the Pillars of the Earth books. There must have been a pretty big push from someone in the company to branch out from all that, cause the Gollum vs Smeagol sections make me think they wanted the gameplay of this to be more choice based at some point but then someone came and said they HAD to create a full blown stealth-platformer with realistic graphics. Maybe it could also have been a E.T. game situation? They spent all that money acquiring the rights for the IP and had nothing left to pay the devs to actually make the game. And the sad part is that from the pictures we see in-game I think a adventure game with hand drawn style could have been great, they already made so many good ones before. I don't resent Daedelic for trying to branch out of their comfort zone but at some point they should have realized this would never work out for them, they must have been contractually obligated to release the game or something cause I can't believe a developer would willingly choose to squander their reputation like this, to go down in history as the company who made this mess.
It's always more complicated than anyone gives credit for. I'm sure there's an interesting story here. Hopefully we hear about what happened. Someone has to tell this story.
The story I heard about why this never got cancelled: The small studio was told to make it by a larger company, but then the smaller studio changed hands and the new owners said "I'm sure you know what you're doing, keep up the good work" even though everybody involve was praying for permission to stop so they could work on something that wasn't garbage instead
It's such an unconventional concept that really takes experience and a vision for it not to be terrible. Imagine a game where you play Gandalf from when he arrives in Middle-Earth to when Sauron is defeated or even up until the Hobbit or whatever. At least that makes some sort of gamer sense
I don't hate games that try out interesting concepts like this. But I think the thing with them is that you have to be really clever in how you want to handle it. And doing that takes a lot of effort and time (figuring out game mechanics in niche genres can be tricky sometimes I think). Like, if they really really wanted to do this, they could have left out trailing missions and made the internal fighting a lot more complex. Something like that could make it stand out in a more positive way. It still likely wouldn't be everyone's favorite LoTR game, but at least then it would be interesting and fun to play (and not just to make fun of it). But I also totally understand how getting gollum instead of a cooler idea is disappointing too. I'm not really into LoTR but there's so much potential as far as video games go and instead this happened.
That’s what’s so bizarre. It’s not an obvious “easy sell”, so in theory you’d expect there to be some vision behind it. But it seems like Gollum was just a cheap license to get and that’s why we got this. Something like Styx would’ve made sense for Gollum.
@@GwyndolinOwOimagine this game but with fluid parkour, a better stealth system, and combat/riddles consisting of setting up environmental kills/manipulating orcs into fighting each other. All the while the ring slowly takes hold of you, increasing your skills but noticeably morphing your original light hearted personality. Imagine how hard the scene where you first accept eating raw fish would be.
I feel bad for one of the last gaming studios in Germany. I studied Game Design, therefore, I know how hard the industry is here ... no vision, no idea, no innovation. Just old men trying to cash grab quickly and have power. I think that Daedalic tried playing into their cards: storytelling, old German dark vibes, substance over form - but it always got in conflict with expectations form execs. Secondly, the discussion about Gollum is a little bit different in Germany. In Germany, meeting milestones is the most important aspect of any product design. We have more game producers than developers here and they're far more powerful. Therefore, I think, the producers always reported to their superiors "everything is fine, we're feature complete in time" but beneath that report was an absolute shitshow no one cared about and no one understood. Germany is a gerontocracy. We won't lead any industry in the next twenty years. Baby boomers need to die first before innovation can flourish here again. Poland will represent us in the meantime
@@Jartran72 He talked about challenges in the gaming industry, and basically to keep your chin up, even in shitty situations. He showed the trailer of Gollum by the end a few days before it went public and tried to hype the game...
Ah. Well. I'm aware some people really say they want to know more about Gollum but I hope this isn't what they had in mind. Meanwhile, I would love to play a game that's just Legolas and Gimli post-LOTR going on a journey to see the best sights of Middle Earth before Legolas builds them a boat to leave. (In the books, Legolas and Gimli have their own section in the epilogue where this is explained.) You could pack a ton of adventure into that and you know it will have a great ending.
What I noticed a lot was how the faces change in betweenn dialogue and animations. Like they make certain faces that dont look half bad, but theres no smoothness to it so they talk or express themselves and then just snap back to default faces
If this was a fan made game I think people would be much more forgiving. A small team with minimal money and on a strict deadline but clearly everyone was passionate and did what they could with what they had. But a whole studio with backing, money, and time made it. It’s just not forgivable.
A studio with no experience making 3D games. They have only ever done point and click games. The studio changed owners and the team begged to shut the project down, but the suits just pushed it out. So tone it down a notch or two.
It's a game that could have worked with a very specific vision for the product, but it didn't have that. It had a generic vision and with all else considered it ended up in a poor product. I didn't think I would enjoy a game where I'm Norman Reedus delivering packages from place to place and yet I had a pretty good time with Good Stranding. It was a very weird and novel experience that captured me in a way I wouldn't have expected. This didn't do that.
My theory with this game is that the development studio is usually known for quirky story based point and click adventure games. I think this game started life as one of those and pitched as one of those but due to some on high mandate was changed to be… this. Would explain how inept it is since the studio never really did this style of game before.
I really wasn't expecting much if any improvement here since Daedelic is shutting down their internal development teams to focus on publishing. Doubt there's anyone even left to fix it if they wanted to.
I don't agree at all. A game revolving around Gollum could be absolutely outstanding - if executed correctly. I'm getting real tired of people just repeating that it'd be boring without a single proper argument as to why that would be the case. Just a few examples: 💥 Alien isolation style game where you escape from Barad-Dur. With a vertical map that spirals around itself, with multiple connecting pathways like Dark Souls 1 or Metroidvania. 💥 Little nightmares inspired game with similar setting as above. Whilst it has to be a bit more "arcady" than the one above, it offers multiple ways to add an outstanding narrative that drives it forward. 💥 Turnbased, tactical stealth game in the vein of Invisible, Inc Hell, you could even create a visual novel-type game that revolves around how Gollum "befriended" the spider Shelob. A Gollum game even has the best reason for a talking protaginst ever, because he literally speaks to himself! Imagine the type of story narrative that could be created around a guy whose mind has split in two. You could even create gameplay around that, splitting the world into Gollum/Smeagol perspectives, or take some ideas from Amnesia and their insanity system. Yes, this is a rant. Yes, I'm overreacting. Yes, I'm a Gollum fanboy. No, I have never, and will never, buy this trash game.
It's crazy because the devs clearly tried to make a stealth game, which is the obvious way to make a gollum game, but somehow the game plays like the stealth segment in a non stealth game. Even games like, Uncharted where stealth is a minor side mechanic feels like a better stealth game.
I mean, even just a gollum walking simulator where it's just avout catching various fish and other prey like a grittier "Bugsnax" could have worked. Mild crafting for traps and snares, the parkour platforming, and just keeping a checklist with Smeagol/Gollum's names for each type of meat. A Gollum game didn't even need to be grandiose.
I agree as well. The idea of playing as Gollum as a main protagonist is not inherently a bad one. In fact it could be exciting as hell. Imagine a first-person survival horror with focus on stealth mechanics, where you see everything from the eyes of our favourite cave skulker as you make your escape from Barad-dûr. Crawl around the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. Consume fish, birds, and rats. Choke out Orcs and goblins with foul methods and lay traps as you sneak about to reclaim your Precious. All the time you occasionally hear your inner selves combating each other during certain events or interactions. It would simply be a game where you play as the monster. Obviously these are all just conceptual speculations and it probably sounds better in my head, but it all depends on how it is executed. In the case of this game, everything that you should not do when developing a game seemed to be the studio's standard.
Totally agree! I could definitely see a stealth/puzzle game where Gollum escapes Mordor after revealing the location of the ring. That is probably the simplest answer to what a game about Gollum could be about.
As a software engineer, I think a major problem is in the use of the Agile development framework. This idea that you can release an unfinished software product, gain user feedback, then make iterative improvements subsequently. It works reasonably well for start-ups that have low traffic/product interaction at the beginning, giving them ample opportunity to make changes before the masses eventually interact with it. It does not, however, work in an industry where people are paying 50 to 100 dollars for a product that they have been waiting months for. These companies hire these senior engineers with this mindset, they release these unfinished products, then abandon them when they realize no one will ever touch the game after the horrible initial impressions.
You're my hero. IMO it doesn't work for anyone unless, yes, you're a startup and need to "get to market" before running out of is cash. The result is what we used to call spaghetti, because thinking you can change everything after messing up the architecture is folly. The upper mgmt who made the bad decisions in the first place will never give the time to go back and fix says bad decisions. It's no wonder that nearly every commerce site I visit is a broken mess. These games are just a microcosm of software development these days. Signed, former SQA/Prod Mgr
And I forgot to mention, the old school lord of the rings whenever there was a clip from a movie scene, afterwards it’ll put you into the 3D world version of the game. The graphics for its time is still one of the best.
The LOTR trilogy tie-in games were pretty much the last really good LOTR games sadly. Shadow of War/Mordor are decent games but their design is very anchored in the 2010s (aside from the nemesis system) and it doesn’t scratch the itch the same.
I liked both of those games but they don't feel very LoTR-sie to me. I just divorced them utterly from the books/films in my head, then I got along with them much better.@@billymays1761
There is a huge difference between a child's drawing and a product created by a group of adults and sold to me. If the product was bad it needs to be called out. If it's especially bad, as Gollum is, mocking and memeing it is warranted because these people KNEW what they were putting out was in this state and said "Yeah, that's good enough! let's go with that!" Even if they were under deadlines or pressured into it, reality is reality. Their 'fee-fees' will get over it and time will move on.
This game being bad actually hurts me because i love Gollum and had such high hopes for this game especially (also im STILL playing the old Assassin's creed and i lovebthe tailing missions)
To be fair, they did release a patch a few weeks ago that fixed a bunch of random bugs and issues. The list is long, tho there's only so much you can do to improve the game at this point.
But then again, you have to question the intelligence level of anyone who actually thought that a Gollum game would be interesting, good or even necessary. I HATE Lord of the Rings, Hobbits and anything having to do with Tolkien, yet I know enough to actually grasp that NO a Gollum game was never going to be good or needed. He got a ring, lost the ring and spend hundreds of years living in a cave. He's fucking even less interesting Dobbie.
There is honestly nothing wrong with the concept of a Gollum game, they just attached to the wrong game type. This could have worked as an Amnesia like title.
Was part of some of the game's development. Specially the huge pyramid shown around 9:26. Poured a lot of love into the areas I got the chance to work at. Just lot of things got downgraded and some technical faults didn't let it reach its peak.
It still baffles me that there is a company like Daedalic that makes the best Point & click adventures. I do not like this genre at all but Harvey's new eyes in one of my favorite games of all time. Also Deponia. Man this is so so so good. How did they end up making this game? Go ahead and ask a football player to play volleyball. Of course it will turn out shit. How did this happen? Why isn't that a point & click adventure
simple, the original crew (Poki and the others) that made those great games left Deadalic in back 2020, and Deadalic has primarily worked as a publisher after that. Gollum was supposed to bring Deadalic's development department back into action but... well...
I haven't played the game myself, but I don't understand people saying the game look bad. Sure, the characters look like something from 10 years ago (and why did they have to give Gollum that disgusting hair?), but from what I see in this video the environment, lighting, reflection etc look really good. Are my standards too low? 😅
I feel the same way... However, as primarily a Nintendo fan, I already KNOW my standards are too low 😅 But in general I feel like super intense realistic graphics don't make everything. However, if you're going to make a game that doesn't look up to the high standards of other recent games, you have to make it something fun... An unfortunate failure of this game as well haha
It's more that it looks bad for the price. For $60-$70, it shouldn't look like something from 10 years ago. If it was a bit cheaper, sure. Or if the gameplay itself was good, or there were more environments, sure. But none of it is.
What a weird conspiracy theory lol. Why would they not just close the studio? Why would they need an "excuse" to do so? And why would they spend millions on the rights to an IP to intentionally make something bad?
The most devastating bug that as far as I know never got fixed, at least on PS4 was in World to the West - there is one health upgrade item that the character who controls monsters needs to use her power to reach, but the monster doesn't spawn correctly so you can't use it. Also Fenyx Rising got around it's cancellation with a cool DLC set in Chinese Mythology. I never played that DLC although I loved the original game, but that's cool, to make one of your DLC's basically a whole new game.
you know those episodes of Kitchen Nightmares where the owners have never worked in or around a restaurant before and just opened it on a whim? This game feels like Daedalic chose to make a game on a whim despite having no prior knowledge on how to make a game. This feels like when they make NBA players act in serious roles that require acting skill of any sort.
Which is super weird because Daedalic have made some excellent games in the past. I have played or watched a lot of them and they are super fun. This one is just... not that.
This games graphics should never have been the focus of the hate. The game has a style but looked fine, acceptable. The bugs and lame gameplay is what needs to be ridiculed.
I feel bad for the people who make games that no one likes. I think about them hoping people love it and working on it for so long. I can't imagine trying my best to make something people might enjoy and they universally hate it.
I really appreciate these types of videos where you go back to these broken singleplayer games to see the state they are in. They highlight the work that developers put into the game or lack thereof, and the reality is that someone at some point might still buys these games.
If you go back to an early video from the developers, they showed off concept artwork and it looked like a completely different game, even some of the early alpha build looked totally different. This is such a dim, drab looking game that doesn’t capture any of the wonder of Tolkien’s work or even the Peter Jackson trilogy. Plus it’s so dated looking, it looks like a late PS2 or early PS3 game.
Man... This game but good could be such a trip. Playing as Gollum and doing your best to survive while the ring slowly takes more and more hold of you, sneaking around orcs and parkouring around middle earth? That sounds so interesting. Like... I've never said this before, but I bet even Ubisoft could make something fun with that idea.
No no no. People don’t dislike Callisto Protocol because it launched kinda buggy, they dislike it because it’s a bad game. It doesn’t have an original bone in its body, it is not fun to play, and it’s littered with fully illogical occurrences.
I can handle a game looking like shit.. I can even handle SOME bugs and glitches (which I shouldn't have to settle for), but I can not and will not play a game that has game breaking glitches.
I went to the Mediamarkt here in The Netherlands and noticed the game was ‘on sale ‘for €35 (ps5) and €60 (xbox). Having watched your review and a few others, I can just say it should be illegal to sell this game😅. A shame really, I am a huge Tolkien fan..
I don't quite understand why you think this game would've been better than before. The studio behind the game shut down its development division, which is pretty much the opposite of what would need to happen to make the game better...
11:27 They clearly use the same font in the subtitles, so it's moreso a game design issue. The image there is likely just a design mockup but when it came time to coding the game, they couldn't figure out how to implement the original UI setup effectively. It was never actually built in the engine/used in game. The model in the image has much better lighting and textures too compared to the real in-game model. The UI in the actual game is just the alpha build that they didn't go back and polish, either due to time/money or skill, and just chose to leave as functional. Well, as functional as Gollum can be.
3:05 Yeah, sorry, that doesn't fly. Results matter, not participation trophies. I put a ton of time and effort into taking a s**** in the morning, but at the end of the day, it's still just a pile of s****.
I don't think he's trying to excuse everybody. I think he just means that there are developers on this who were not responsible for the overall direction that really just loved LOTR and so wanted to work on this game, were passionate about it, and did their part just fine. Not necessarily just excusing everyone involved because they tried.
I think one of the main reasons why the mess that is the graphics stands out so much in this is cause it's not all uniform, like you'll have one set dressing piece that looks beautifully sculpted and another that looks like a preschooler's playdough creation. If it was all at similar levels of detail one could argue it was a stylistic choice. Also, trailing missions are the worst thing ever invented imo, I hope they never get made again
2:03 Did you know that “to each their own” is a very famous German proverb? Yeah! Really famous! So famous it stood over the gates of the KZ in Buchenwald. 😊
Gollum shouldn't be forgotten, it should be remembered. It should be a cautionary tale to every video game developer out there that they too are just a few bad decisions away from a launch so bad they all lose their jobs
We’ll be feeling the after effects for years, corporate executives will use this to justify downplaying single player games in favor of mmos and anything else that can be violated with excessive battle passes and loot boxes.
3:33 you don't criticize a toddler for the quality of their artwork, that is correct. But typically you don't pay up to 70 bucks to look at a toddler's drawing
Think this one is a rare one where everyone is at fault. I mean who wants to play Gollum in the first place? That's like coming out with a movie about Snarf from 80s Thundercats. I mean no one watched Thundercats for Snarf. Being apart of Gollum even as a developer is like signing up for a trip on the Titanic knowing it's going to sink.
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I like your policy , but ihmo way to early to go back to the game , six months at least , I play a lot of early access, and it normally takes at least that to iron out problems sometimes longer
Jesus is the only way to heaven
Being a good person won’t get you there.
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
John 14:6 ESV
Repent from your sin(disobedience to God) and turn to God and follow Him so that you will be saved
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9 ESV
“No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 ESV:
Nuts to this game
Well it could have been worse I would have been another Bubsy game
I wish to see what Gollum's life was like before he killed his friend. The game should begin showing where he lived when he was just a regular, young Hobbit, and handsome Smeagol. The game should explore his house, his neighborhood, and other Hobbits like him. I would like to see Deagle knocking on Smeagol's door asking him to go fishing. After killing his friend, how does Smeagol transform into Gollum? What happens when he loses the ring in the cave and frantically tries to find it? What does Gollum think and do when he runs into Bilbo Baggins? What is the game of riddles like from Gollum's point of view instead of Bilbo's? The game should show Bilbo ditching Gollum, Gollum looking all over Middle-earth for Bilbo and the ring, being captured by Sauron and his army, getting tortured by Sauron, revealing where the ring is, and then either escaping or being set loose. After he leaves Sauron's castle, Gollum can meet Shelob the giant spider, explore the Northeast part of Middle Earth, wander around Mirkwood, and meet the Black Riders (aka the Nazgul) who are looking for Gollum. and as Gollum, you have to avoid them like Frodo would in The Shire Gollum escapes the black riders but gets captured by Aragorn and Gandalf. He brought to the elf king of Mirkwood who throws Gollum into jail. Again Gollum escapes reaching the elf King's Palace just like Bilbo did in The Hobbit. Gollum can next wander around the Misty Mountains finding his way into a cave that extends to a chasm in the mines of Moria. Aragon, Gandalf, and Frodo are also traveling through the mines of Moria. Gollum follows them. Gollum could also travel through the forest of Lorian trying to avoid the wood elves by swimming down the Anduin River. it would be interesting to see Gollum spy on Frodo's confersation with Galraderal and It would be interesting for Gollum to run into Frodo and Sam in the forest after they ambush him. Gollum guides them to Mordor just like in the movie and the book, however, the game/story should all be from Gollum's point of view.
this is what I would like to see in the Lord of the Rings game you're making about Gollum's Point of view so what do you think?
I know a guy who did mocap for this game. The studio had apparently never done mocap before, they had to rent the equipment and had no designated space to do it. Also, he was just instructed to, you know… try out different moves. No "here's this character, this is what he would move like, these are the moves we need". Safe to say, they didn't have much of a plan and were making it up as they went.
10/10 game dev confirmt
Confirmt @@Silentpoppy
Daedalic the studio is mostly known for indie 2d point & click adventures like Deponia or Night of the Rabbit. They really have never done anything like this. Plus apparently the work environment had been horrible for years so that they had no experienced employees and heavily relied on interns.
I have Daedelic games they did 2d point n' click adventure games, not 3d stealth platformers completely out of their depth
As an actor I fucking DESPISE it when a director gives no direction
It’s crazy that someone took time to make the Gollum character model and thought “yeah this is pretty good”
😂😂😂
because it was lazy cashgrab. But people were not stupid enough to make this scam succeed under Lord of the Rings disguise.
ikr? the voice was just as bad
I don't know what they were smoking, but I dunno if I am crazy, but I think I remember in the reveal for this game, Gollum looked better. And as @jdkbriggs here says, the voice is shit, I know people that don't do VA professionally that do way better Gollum voice then whatever that was.
Probably an underpaid 3d artist who also didn't get enough time to work on it...
Gollum should have been a survival game where you live in a cave while being absolutely insane
And a schizophrenic, with a voiced precious
That's just real life.
@@ImDudeRandom90😂
Totally could've made a Gollum fishing game, considering how much he loves fish.
@@agentawassi5412the one time a fishing mini game makes sense and it has none
I love my wife - she'll be out shopping and just randomly decide to surprise me with a game. It's super cute, but she never checks reviews and isn't a gamer herself, so this was one of those games that she bought me on a whim lol.
If you love lord of the rings its normal
Possibly the cutest story attached to this game.
I was worried my husband might buy it for me for my birthday since he saw me watching people play it and asked me about it and I didn’t specifically say it’s terrible.
Thankfully he didn’t.
Aw bless lol
She's a little confused but she's got the spirit 😅
i love Gollum so much hours and hours of content and i have never played the game lmao
Underrated comment😂😂
Seriously this is why Gollum is better than Saints Row. No one gives a shit about SR, but the content around Gollum is gold 😂
It is the petscope of our reality. No one has played it yet. We know everything
@@RobTheDoodler🤡
Critical hit! - Seriously, that's one good thing about bad games! They entertain you in other ways and safe you money, if you didn't buy them (and probably never will, unless they turn them around and even then: Wait for the bargain-bin!)
My favorite part of the game was the level where you stay in a cave for 500 years alternately catching and eating raw fish and staring at the ring.
God I hated the level with that fat hobbitses and the riddles. How am I supposed to have guessed what was in his pocket on my first try????
I'm absolutely convinced there's an interesting story about this game. And what happened here. It's always more complicated than anyone gives credit to.
NDAs would prevent that.
Maybe someday we'll hear it but probably not for many years.
No ones going to spill the beans , it's not a good idea career wise , folks don't want hire people, that trash talk , places they have worked.
@@auroraparadox5235by the time they do talk no one will care
Matt McMuscles is going to have an epic video on it one of these days.
The difference between gollum and a toddlers drawing is that the toddler isnt charging you money for it
They aren't? Shit, where'd my 70 dollars go?!
Honestly what this game DID do well was in the concept art stage. I like the designs and weird outfits everyone has. It's very 70s. Not great execution in the game itself but it's clear some really good artists were on the art development team.
Wow hi puff, never thought I'd see you here, did you watch the Efap episode of this game already? It's my favorite episode from them.
The game was made by Daedelic Entertainment which made incredible point and click adventure games with a more hand drawn style graphics, I love their adaptation of the Pillars of the Earth books. There must have been a pretty big push from someone in the company to branch out from all that, cause the Gollum vs Smeagol sections make me think they wanted the gameplay of this to be more choice based at some point but then someone came and said they HAD to create a full blown stealth-platformer with realistic graphics.
Maybe it could also have been a E.T. game situation? They spent all that money acquiring the rights for the IP and had nothing left to pay the devs to actually make the game. And the sad part is that from the pictures we see in-game I think a adventure game with hand drawn style could have been great, they already made so many good ones before.
I don't resent Daedelic for trying to branch out of their comfort zone but at some point they should have realized this would never work out for them, they must have been contractually obligated to release the game or something cause I can't believe a developer would willingly choose to squander their reputation like this, to go down in history as the company who made this mess.
It's always more complicated than anyone gives credit for. I'm sure there's an interesting story here. Hopefully we hear about what happened. Someone has to tell this story.
The story I heard about why this never got cancelled: The small studio was told to make it by a larger company, but then the smaller studio changed hands and the new owners said "I'm sure you know what you're doing, keep up the good work" even though everybody involve was praying for permission to stop so they could work on something that wasn't garbage instead
That doesn't explain Kong and Avatar though. But still possible.
It's such an unconventional concept that really takes experience and a vision for it not to be terrible. Imagine a game where you play Gandalf from when he arrives in Middle-Earth to when Sauron is defeated or even up until the Hobbit or whatever. At least that makes some sort of gamer sense
I don't hate games that try out interesting concepts like this. But I think the thing with them is that you have to be really clever in how you want to handle it. And doing that takes a lot of effort and time (figuring out game mechanics in niche genres can be tricky sometimes I think). Like, if they really really wanted to do this, they could have left out trailing missions and made the internal fighting a lot more complex. Something like that could make it stand out in a more positive way. It still likely wouldn't be everyone's favorite LoTR game, but at least then it would be interesting and fun to play (and not just to make fun of it).
But I also totally understand how getting gollum instead of a cooler idea is disappointing too. I'm not really into LoTR but there's so much potential as far as video games go and instead this happened.
That’s what’s so bizarre. It’s not an obvious “easy sell”, so in theory you’d expect there to be some vision behind it.
But it seems like Gollum was just a cheap license to get and that’s why we got this.
Something like Styx would’ve made sense for Gollum.
@@GwyndolinOwOimagine this game but with fluid parkour, a better stealth system, and combat/riddles consisting of setting up environmental kills/manipulating orcs into fighting each other.
All the while the ring slowly takes hold of you, increasing your skills but noticeably morphing your original light hearted personality.
Imagine how hard the scene where you first accept eating raw fish would be.
*Repeatedly insisting he doesn’t enjoy shitting on bad games*
*rips the game apart laughing for 20 minutes*
Ah yes
Well yactually it was 18 minutes
Lol facts
No shade tho. Great video. People (myself included sometimes) forget that they charge money for this. And at that point, all sympathies are gone
I mean it was $60/70 dollars for a sub par game that had soft locks and glitches.
@@magita1991man, it wasn’t even a sub par game. It was a mediocre 2007 game that got released 16yrs too late.
I feel bad for one of the last gaming studios in Germany. I studied Game Design, therefore, I know how hard the industry is here ... no vision, no idea, no innovation. Just old men trying to cash grab quickly and have power.
I think that Daedalic tried playing into their cards: storytelling, old German dark vibes, substance over form - but it always got in conflict with expectations form execs. Secondly, the discussion about Gollum is a little bit different in Germany. In Germany, meeting milestones is the most important aspect of any product design. We have more game producers than developers here and they're far more powerful. Therefore, I think, the producers always reported to their superiors "everything is fine, we're feature complete in time" but beneath that report was an absolute shitshow no one cared about and no one understood.
Germany is a gerontocracy. We won't lead any industry in the next twenty years. Baby boomers need to die first before innovation can flourish here again. Poland will represent us in the meantime
Carsten Fichtelmann from Deadelic Entertainment had a Gastvortrag at my Uni a few weeks before the game got Launched
And what did he say at that guest speech?
@@Jartran72 He talked about challenges in the gaming industry, and basically to keep your chin up, even in shitty situations. He showed the trailer of Gollum by the end a few days before it went public and tried to hype the game...
Ah. Well. I'm aware some people really say they want to know more about Gollum but I hope this isn't what they had in mind.
Meanwhile, I would love to play a game that's just Legolas and Gimli post-LOTR going on a journey to see the best sights of Middle Earth before Legolas builds them a boat to leave. (In the books, Legolas and Gimli have their own section in the epilogue where this is explained.) You could pack a ton of adventure into that and you know it will have a great ending.
That'd be so cool, plus they could explre what Gondor would be like under Aragon's rule and how the shire was rebuilt, so much potential!
What I noticed a lot was how the faces change in betweenn dialogue and animations. Like they make certain faces that dont look half bad, but theres no smoothness to it so they talk or express themselves and then just snap back to default faces
If this was a fan made game I think people would be much more forgiving. A small team with minimal money and on a strict deadline but clearly everyone was passionate and did what they could with what they had. But a whole studio with backing, money, and time made it. It’s just not forgivable.
A studio with no experience making 3D games. They have only ever done point and click games. The studio changed owners and the team begged to shut the project down, but the suits just pushed it out. So tone it down a notch or two.
It's a game that could have worked with a very specific vision for the product, but it didn't have that. It had a generic vision and with all else considered it ended up in a poor product. I didn't think I would enjoy a game where I'm Norman Reedus delivering packages from place to place and yet I had a pretty good time with Good Stranding. It was a very weird and novel experience that captured me in a way I wouldn't have expected.
This didn't do that.
My theory with this game is that the development studio is usually known for quirky story based point and click adventure games. I think this game started life as one of those and pitched as one of those but due to some on high mandate was changed to be… this. Would explain how inept it is since the studio never really did this style of game before.
Pretty good theory. :)
I really wasn't expecting much if any improvement here since Daedelic is shutting down their internal development teams to focus on publishing. Doubt there's anyone even left to fix it if they wanted to.
A huge loss. Their former games were masterpieces of their genre.
I don't agree at all.
A game revolving around Gollum could be absolutely outstanding - if executed correctly. I'm getting real tired of people just repeating that it'd be boring without a single proper argument as to why that would be the case.
Just a few examples:
💥 Alien isolation style game where you escape from Barad-Dur. With a vertical map that spirals around itself, with multiple connecting pathways like Dark Souls 1 or Metroidvania.
💥 Little nightmares inspired game with similar setting as above. Whilst it has to be a bit more "arcady" than the one above, it offers multiple ways to add an outstanding narrative that drives it forward.
💥 Turnbased, tactical stealth game in the vein of Invisible, Inc
Hell, you could even create a visual novel-type game that revolves around how Gollum "befriended" the spider Shelob.
A Gollum game even has the best reason for a talking protaginst ever, because he literally speaks to himself! Imagine the type of story narrative that could be created around a guy whose mind has split in two. You could even create gameplay around that, splitting the world into Gollum/Smeagol perspectives, or take some ideas from Amnesia and their insanity system.
Yes, this is a rant. Yes, I'm overreacting. Yes, I'm a Gollum fanboy. No, I have never, and will never, buy this trash game.
I completely agree! In fact, I really loved the concept from the get-go. In fact, there are ideas that sound far worse on paper but turned out great.
It's crazy because the devs clearly tried to make a stealth game, which is the obvious way to make a gollum game, but somehow the game plays like the stealth segment in a non stealth game.
Even games like, Uncharted where stealth is a minor side mechanic feels like a better stealth game.
I mean, even just a gollum walking simulator where it's just avout catching various fish and other prey like a grittier "Bugsnax" could have worked.
Mild crafting for traps and snares, the parkour platforming, and just keeping a checklist with Smeagol/Gollum's names for each type of meat.
A Gollum game didn't even need to be grandiose.
I agree as well. The idea of playing as Gollum as a main protagonist is not inherently a bad one. In fact it could be exciting as hell.
Imagine a first-person survival horror with focus on stealth mechanics, where you see everything from the eyes of our favourite cave skulker as you make your escape from Barad-dûr. Crawl around the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. Consume fish, birds, and rats. Choke out Orcs and goblins with foul methods and lay traps as you sneak about to reclaim your Precious. All the time you occasionally hear your inner selves combating each other during certain events or interactions. It would simply be a game where you play as the monster.
Obviously these are all just conceptual speculations and it probably sounds better in my head, but it all depends on how it is executed.
In the case of this game, everything that you should not do when developing a game seemed to be the studio's standard.
Totally agree! I could definitely see a stealth/puzzle game where Gollum escapes Mordor after revealing the location of the ring. That is probably the simplest answer to what a game about Gollum could be about.
as a fellow gamedev dude, that story of dude forgetting to check a checkbox resonated me harder than you can imagine
If only this game launched at $20, there would've been no complaints at all. Just a game fading in and out of existence.
20$ for this game is still 25$ too much. Playing for free would still cost me irreplaceable lifespan.
everybody should have been refunded automatically a day or two after release
Was it 40$ at launch?
@@hazardousmaterials-ff7nmwhat if I told you it was $60 😂
@@blenderguy2598 WHAT ? This should have been some sort of money laundry project 💀💀
As a software engineer, I think a major problem is in the use of the Agile development framework. This idea that you can release an unfinished software product, gain user feedback, then make iterative improvements subsequently. It works reasonably well for start-ups that have low traffic/product interaction at the beginning, giving them ample opportunity to make changes before the masses eventually interact with it. It does not, however, work in an industry where people are paying 50 to 100 dollars for a product that they have been waiting months for. These companies hire these senior engineers with this mindset, they release these unfinished products, then abandon them when they realize no one will ever touch the game after the horrible initial impressions.
You're my hero. IMO it doesn't work for anyone unless, yes, you're a startup and need to "get to market" before running out of is cash. The result is what we used to call spaghetti, because thinking you can change everything after messing up the architecture is folly. The upper mgmt who made the bad decisions in the first place will never give the time to go back and fix says bad decisions. It's no wonder that nearly every commerce site I visit is a broken mess. These games are just a microcosm of software development these days.
Signed, former SQA/Prod Mgr
Most game devs just run out of time IMO, I don't think they plan to use the agile model like that
@@OzterkvltI'd assume it's more common with “live service” games, especially ones that collapse within a few months
And I forgot to mention, the old school lord of the rings whenever there was a clip from a movie scene, afterwards it’ll put you into the 3D world version of the game. The graphics for its time is still one of the best.
Yes
Love that game
The LOTR trilogy tie-in games were pretty much the last really good LOTR games sadly. Shadow of War/Mordor are decent games but their design is very anchored in the 2010s (aside from the nemesis system) and it doesn’t scratch the itch the same.
I liked both of those games but they don't feel very LoTR-sie to me. I just divorced them utterly from the books/films in my head, then I got along with them much better.@@billymays1761
My friends described this as one of those random games that would have come out in 2006 and it’s genuinely the most accurate thing I’ve ever heard
There is a huge difference between a child's drawing and a product created by a group of adults and sold to me. If the product was bad it needs to be called out. If it's especially bad, as Gollum is, mocking and memeing it is warranted because these people KNEW what they were putting out was in this state and said "Yeah, that's good enough! let's go with that!"
Even if they were under deadlines or pressured into it, reality is reality. Their 'fee-fees' will get over it and time will move on.
We appreciate your sacrifice, Luke. Now do the same with Redfall.
ok
This game being bad actually hurts me because i love Gollum and had such high hopes for this game especially (also im STILL playing the old Assassin's creed and i lovebthe tailing missions)
To be fair, they did release a patch a few weeks ago that fixed a bunch of random bugs and issues. The list is long, tho there's only so much you can do to improve the game at this point.
That patch did jack sht
from my understanding trying to patch gollum is like if someone tried to use Flex Seal to stop the titanic from sinking .
3:17 The difference is that you wouldn't expect people to buy a toddler's drawing for $70
But then again, you have to question the intelligence level of anyone who actually thought that a Gollum game would be interesting, good or even necessary. I HATE Lord of the Rings, Hobbits and anything having to do with Tolkien, yet I know enough to actually grasp that NO a Gollum game was never going to be good or needed. He got a ring, lost the ring and spend hundreds of years living in a cave. He's fucking even less interesting Dobbie.
It looks like a game Gollum would have made, except for the part with the burd.
The real Gollum was inside us all along.
There is honestly nothing wrong with the concept of a Gollum game, they just attached to the wrong game type. This could have worked as an Amnesia like title.
Ok why was the Mickey Rourke face analogy so on point 😂😂
Was part of some of the game's development. Specially the huge pyramid shown around 9:26. Poured a lot of love into the areas I got the chance to work at. Just lot of things got downgraded and some technical faults didn't let it reach its peak.
Please do be kind. The dev team too are just as bummed as everyone.
It still baffles me that there is a company like Daedalic that makes the best Point & click adventures. I do not like this genre at all but Harvey's new eyes in one of my favorite games of all time. Also Deponia. Man this is so so so good. How did they end up making this game? Go ahead and ask a football player to play volleyball. Of course it will turn out shit. How did this happen? Why isn't that a point & click adventure
simple, the original crew (Poki and the others) that made those great games left Deadalic in back 2020, and Deadalic has primarily worked as a publisher after that. Gollum was supposed to bring Deadalic's development department back into action but... well...
@@TheChiog Do you know why the left Deadalic? Did they create their own studio?
@@amberbaum4079 I only know that poki wanted to focus on his music, no idea what the others are doing
The developers are hard at work on their next masterpiece, Kong: Skull Island
I haven't played the game myself, but I don't understand people saying the game look bad. Sure, the characters look like something from 10 years ago (and why did they have to give Gollum that disgusting hair?), but from what I see in this video the environment, lighting, reflection etc look really good. Are my standards too low? 😅
I feel the same way... However, as primarily a Nintendo fan, I already KNOW my standards are too low 😅 But in general I feel like super intense realistic graphics don't make everything. However, if you're going to make a game that doesn't look up to the high standards of other recent games, you have to make it something fun... An unfortunate failure of this game as well haha
@@eon7110 haha, i mostly prefer lounging on the couch or bed with my Nintendo as well. Maybe that explains it 😂
It's more that it looks bad for the price. For $60-$70, it shouldn't look like something from 10 years ago. If it was a bit cheaper, sure. Or if the gameplay itself was good, or there were more environments, sure. But none of it is.
@@sociallyundead419 yeah, i get that. My point is that, other than the characters, I don't see how it looks bad, even for the price in 2023 😄
upon seeing the title i knew they hadnt fixed anything, the devs DO NOT CARE
What if someone was looking for an excuse to close the studio. So they release it fire everyone.
What a weird conspiracy theory lol. Why would they not just close the studio? Why would they need an "excuse" to do so? And why would they spend millions on the rights to an IP to intentionally make something bad?
Don’t forget this game also had DLC on launch for things like emotes, and a compendium…
The most devastating bug that as far as I know never got fixed, at least on PS4 was in World to the West - there is one health upgrade item that the character who controls monsters needs to use her power to reach, but the monster doesn't spawn correctly so you can't use it.
Also Fenyx Rising got around it's cancellation with a cool DLC set in Chinese Mythology. I never played that DLC although I loved the original game, but that's cool, to make one of your DLC's basically a whole new game.
you know those episodes of Kitchen Nightmares where the owners have never worked in or around a restaurant before and just opened it on a whim? This game feels like Daedalic chose to make a game on a whim despite having no prior knowledge on how to make a game. This feels like when they make NBA players act in serious roles that require acting skill of any sort.
Deadalic is known for point and click games.
Which is super weird because Daedalic have made some excellent games in the past. I have played or watched a lot of them and they are super fun. This one is just... not that.
@@bombiegaming I agree, I love Daedelic games (Edna & Harvey, Deponia)…maybe this genre just isn’t their forte. 😞
This games graphics should never have been the focus of the hate.
The game has a style but looked fine, acceptable. The bugs and lame gameplay is what needs to be ridiculed.
Gollum is one of those games that look like it was made in Playstation's Dreams or a student game engine.
“This game is Mickey Rourke’s face” is now my favourite phrase
To Gollum's credit, it's still a more faithful adaptation than Rings of Power.
I feel bad for the people who make games that no one likes. I think about them hoping people love it and working on it for so long. I can't imagine trying my best to make something people might enjoy and they universally hate it.
I really appreciate these types of videos where you go back to these broken singleplayer games to see the state they are in. They highlight the work that developers put into the game or lack thereof, and the reality is that someone at some point might still buys these games.
In waiting for a third Shadow of Mordor this is what we get
I just don’t understand like why tf are people getting degrees after yrs and yrs to come out bs
Bro that thumbnail is priceless😂
If you go back to an early video from the developers, they showed off concept artwork and it looked like a completely different game, even some of the early alpha build looked totally different.
This is such a dim, drab looking game that doesn’t capture any of the wonder of Tolkien’s work or even the Peter Jackson trilogy.
Plus it’s so dated looking, it looks like a late PS2 or early PS3 game.
Callisto Protocol was dope af. Really enjoyed it. Hoping it didn't get bombed out of a sequel.
When Gollum is trying to say his name at the start, he sounds incredibly constipated.😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
I nearly spit out my water when you said, "bedevilment" and then followed it up with Mickey Rourke's face 😆😆😆😆😆
just imagine fable reboot protagonis face when you see gollum face... youll apreciate it more....
Ok the uncooked shrimp was incredible. Funny and accurate.
The editing for this video is top-notch 😂 “you sure about that”
Man... This game but good could be such a trip.
Playing as Gollum and doing your best to survive while the ring slowly takes more and more hold of you, sneaking around orcs and parkouring around middle earth? That sounds so interesting.
Like... I've never said this before, but I bet even Ubisoft could make something fun with that idea.
Even "Craig" is looking at this game like "Oh, you want to talk shit about me now" 🤣
As with most games, I don't blame the individual developers for the lack of quality. This is the result of horrible mismanagement.
5:30 savage but so true😂
Giving Callisto Protocol an 8/10 is nuts
carlos protocol
OK Boss.
The game was made to the same standards as Rings of Power
No no no. People don’t dislike Callisto Protocol because it launched kinda buggy, they dislike it because it’s a bad game. It doesn’t have an original bone in its body, it is not fun to play, and it’s littered with fully illogical occurrences.
I can handle a game looking like shit.. I can even handle SOME bugs and glitches (which I shouldn't have to settle for), but I can not and will not play a game that has game breaking glitches.
Petition for Luke to compare every game to a celebrity's face 😂
It's abandoned already. 30-40 people play it daily on Steam.
I wanted Calisto to be awesome too but it was not even 7/10 with zero bugs, that gameplay was sooooo boring
I went to the Mediamarkt here in The Netherlands and noticed the game was ‘on sale ‘for €35 (ps5) and €60 (xbox). Having watched your review and a few others, I can just say it should be illegal to sell this game😅. A shame really, I am a huge Tolkien fan..
I don't quite understand why you think this game would've been better than before. The studio behind the game shut down its development division, which is pretty much the opposite of what would need to happen to make the game better...
Luke! Please play Hitman!!!
Me and my wife watch all your videos and she loves you and hitman so much!!!!!
Marion, don't look at it. Shut your eyes, Marion. Don't look at it, no matter what happens!
since the company is closed down shortly after the game released... how you think they fixed it?
11:27 They clearly use the same font in the subtitles, so it's moreso a game design issue. The image there is likely just a design mockup but when it came time to coding the game, they couldn't figure out how to implement the original UI setup effectively. It was never actually built in the engine/used in game. The model in the image has much better lighting and textures too compared to the real in-game model. The UI in the actual game is just the alpha build that they didn't go back and polish, either due to time/money or skill, and just chose to leave as functional. Well, as functional as Gollum can be.
3:05 Yeah, sorry, that doesn't fly. Results matter, not participation trophies. I put a ton of time and effort into taking a s**** in the morning, but at the end of the day, it's still just a pile of s****.
I don't think he's trying to excuse everybody. I think he just means that there are developers on this who were not responsible for the overall direction that really just loved LOTR and so wanted to work on this game, were passionate about it, and did their part just fine. Not necessarily just excusing everyone involved because they tried.
I think one of the main reasons why the mess that is the graphics stands out so much in this is cause it's not all uniform, like you'll have one set dressing piece that looks beautifully sculpted and another that looks like a preschooler's playdough creation. If it was all at similar levels of detail one could argue it was a stylistic choice.
Also, trailing missions are the worst thing ever invented imo, I hope they never get made again
they should have made a point and click adventure i feel like it would have worked alot better idk just my thought.
They need to rerelease Battle for Middle Earth 1 and 2. It's so much fun as an RTS game. I'm loving Age of Empires until then
Gollum looks like a Diggle from Myth of fenris but by accident.
The company that made the game got dissolved because of this acutally. Its pretty sad it made pretty good point and click games
Fallout 4 is GOOD. -combat and crafting is amazing. Try Survival difficulty; ramped up survival concerns, turns beds into Souls-like bonfires . . .
This game is like they never thinked about the bugs and it still holds up to now and i still feel like vomiting 💀
I’ve never laughed harder at your jokes 😂😂😂
2:03 Did you know that “to each their own” is a very famous German proverb? Yeah! Really famous! So famous it stood over the gates of the KZ in Buchenwald.
😊
Definitely one of those games where it is beyond patching...if bugs were greatly reduced and graphics much better...still would not be a good game
It reminds me of a remaster - of a game that nobody ever played. It’s so bizarre.
With the rotating wheel I guess someone skipped researching on quaternions :D
That's a good example of tweening between two euler angles.
mmm yes, indubitably, shallow and pedantic
Gollum shouldn't be forgotten, it should be remembered. It should be a cautionary tale to every video game developer out there that they too are just a few bad decisions away from a launch so bad they all lose their jobs
Your fallout 4 video convinced me to go back to it and I'm having so much fun ignoring the story and exploring everything
I can't help but feel they would have made more money selling this for 5 dollars.
After all the word got around of its lack of quality and odd entertainmnt value of it they should of priced it down immediately to 20 bucks but no.
We’ll be feeling the after effects for years, corporate executives will use this to justify downplaying single player games in favor of mmos and anything else that can be violated with excessive battle passes and loot boxes.
3:33 you don't criticize a toddler for the quality of their artwork, that is correct. But typically you don't pay up to 70 bucks to look at a toddler's drawing
Everyone continues to shit out stupid games
Man, I haven't seen a lower third ad on a channel outside of Linus Tech Tips.
If I closed my eyes and he didn't mention Gollum specifically, I would assume this was his Starfield review 😂
25 years from now this game will be a cult classic
edit - lol the graphics are like zoomed in kenshi
Think this one is a rare one where everyone is at fault. I mean who wants to play Gollum in the first place? That's like coming out with a movie about Snarf from 80s Thundercats. I mean no one watched Thundercats for Snarf. Being apart of Gollum even as a developer is like signing up for a trip on the Titanic knowing it's going to sink.