Blame-shifting & Cluster B Personality Disorders | Antisocial, Narcissistic, Borderline, Histrionic
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2024
- This video attempts to answer the question: Can discuss the concept of blame-shifting in the context of Cluster B personality disorders (antisocial, narcissistic, borderline, and histrionic personality disorder)? Blame-shifting is a failure take responsibility and deflecting responsibility. We could think of it as a cognitive distortion and as a type of manipulation. It's a type of manipulation we can see with all of the cluster B personality disorders.
Blame-shifting could also be considered an unwillingness or an inability to take responsibility or a refusal based on someone's interpretation of evidence, and of course that interpretation could be distorted.
They should teach this stuff in school. Blew my mind when she said the cheating was my fault. WHAT?!
timmy leary The cheating wasn't your fault. Whoever your partner was with they chose to be out of their own freewill.
AND they probably told the other lover a lie in order to be with them.
"Oh I'm not with him, I'm single."
So the other guy/girl probably thought they were in an exclusive relationship and you were just the friend or roommate.
Very rarely does the cheating partner tell either people the truth, because they wanna keep both of them at the same time.
@@specialtwice4975 this hurts, closer to home than I would have ever like to know. Thank you for your articulation
"not my fault?" how many times have we heard this? However, in my experience the "innocent" party may bear some responsibility or not?
Years ago, I was talking to my mother about a marital problem. She shared my deceased dad had an affair. She reacted, hurt & angry, kicked him out!
After many talks, she realized that as a young mother with 3 kids, she had neglected him, hurt him very much. They had a strong commitment, worked it out. Sad that he passed away at 39.
However, I made a choice to get divorced. We each did the right thing.
@@65minimom with cluster B personalities, the only own fault is to stay in the relationship after a several cheats. They always direct the guilt on you instead to see the huge insatisfaction into them.
Same thing happened to me
This is why so many borderlines try so hard to defend themselves and blame their toxic behaviors on other things.
Always 🎯💯
Yes
The film industry is littered with 'blame shifters'. I have had to deal with them for over 20 years. And a PRIME example is the Rust film shooting case. Look at all the blame shifting going on there. I'm not at all surprised. Hollywood is over loaded with these horrible styles of personalities
pfff...
In my experiences, the more I try to review with them their pattern of destructive behaviors, the more details/info. (ie. ammo) I'm giving them to twist later on and use against me. They'll take your examples and over time plot a way to later defuse and refute each one in front of other family members. This is why co-counseling doesn't seem to work well, because the deep revealing the victim does in therapy is only seen as fuel to the NPD to use against the victim.
Stay far away from co conciling..go independent!!
Couples counsling is the begining of the end.
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz Counseling can work with a non-narc....but not with a narc.
I really love it when you think you have something resolved only for them to come back at you 2 days later with "I think it's really fucked up that you made me x,y, and z seem like my fault." I'm lying. I hate that. They'll go give "their side" to their friends or whoever, really just so that they have someone to back them up, and then tell you "Bob agrees with me that you're not taking responsibility for it."
Try to fight back against it and it makes it look like you're just playing "I know you are but what am I?" I mean, I didn't go poll my friends to see who agrees with my curated story, so where's my defense? I can't go right to their friend and be like "so Pam is lying or misrepresenting the situation" because then I'm getting in between them or otherwise dragging someone into the situation who otherwise isn't involved.
So what do I do if I really want to keep up the fight? Just flat out say I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, because they don't know all the details or the context of everything, and that I only care about what actually happened. What did or did not happen. What was or was not the intent. But of course, "dismissing" their support is seen as manipulative or like you're trying to trap them and control the whole thing. But, if you can get that far, then you can see if they start lying or misrepresenting things right to your face. You can point out how absurd it is that they're trying to convince you of something that you were there for.
Have we made progress? Have they admitted fault yet? Good. But now get ready for "you make me feel so bad/stupid/whatever." Now it's your fault that they feel some sort of way about the consequences of their actions. My response is usually to the effect of "I just defended myself against what you said or did. You did this." If it's a relationship I want to keep, the delivery on everything needs to be not necessarily softer, but not make things seem final. "You caused this... so you really need to be willing to consider that you might be wrong in the future." Everything still needs to communicate that you are firm, but that you're not necessarily ending the relationship or puttung up more barriers, and that you're also still going to be aware of and looking for that behavior in the future.
That's all assuming it is a relationship worth keeping and that you managed to make any progress behind the shifting in the first place. It's just super tricky, because you an extent you do have to manipulate or control the situation to an extent, even if just so that you are not dismissed, and most anybody would take that as being malicious, especially if they really do feel they were wronged. If it's something you feel is worth all the confrontation, you don't really have the benefit of analyzing and reflecting on past incidents in an office and play counselor to them, you have whatever time you have in those moments to try to keep outside parties and opinions out of it while you try to focus in on the facts and "why" of the situation.
@@EyeLickChildren This is a good synopsis. If they don't show progress or regret, then when they smear and recruit sympathy , you just have to write off the people they've convinced. Because if those people 1) believed their side of a smear story without seeking your side, 2) didn't give you the benefit of the doubt, and 3) doesn't recognize a lie, manipulation, and an evil act, then their loss. So, when even family sides against you swallowing this behind-the-back talk, then sadly they don't really know you or care to know you, the real you.
If you believe in the power of prayer you can pray that lies will be exposed and that others will speak up for you. This could take time. I've seen truth win out over a long time where the narc. eventually gets exposed, and/or you and your situation are seen plainly over time.
My mind just goes to the bottom line: What we _do_ speaks volumes. What we say or think is a lot less important. Are you a good person? Then your behavior will reflect that _consistently and reliably._ Our treatment of others will highlight our true character. If we’re really good, kind, generous, loyal people then when our own ego gets in the way, it won’t ultimately deter us and we will check ourselves and do the necessary work to stay on track with actually doing the things that make for a good human being. Deception and excuses just don’t add up once we awaken to the truth.
Another good video, Dr Grande! God bless you and have a wonderful weekend.
I have BPD and it took CBT therapy to really open my eyes to a lot of my behaviors and knowing they needed to be addressed. Knowledge was power in my case.
I think this is one of the most difficult things to deal with. In my experience they inflict abuse or crimes against you, and then blame you It makes it impossible to address or resolve problems. It’s very confusing and painful when you have no idea about such constructs and personalities 😔. Thank you for this Dr Grande. Validating. It’s a form of scapegoating. Or maybe that’s what it is 🤷♀️
Corporations do blame shifting all the time..and have armies of flying monkeys called lobbiests to help them.
Holy cow, you sure got that right!
Corporations have a ton and I mean a ton of two faced miserable snitches with a lot of people with mental illnesses.
I think if anything the situation is worse than this: corporations are externality machines, and blame is just one of the costs they seek to socialise (which generally involves not just a shift but a magnification as well), while hoarding the booty for - well, in theory the shareholders, but increasingly in practice the top-level managers. Blame shifting is an example at an interpersonal level of what is really the economic phenomenon of negative externalities more broadly.
I appreciate the larger scale context! Large entities are responsible for toxic behaviors in the same way individuals are, in my opinion
Personality disorders are partly generated for lack of healthy coping skills because of lack of healthy environments to facilitate them. So while someone may want to be good intended, their environments may never have provided them an opportunity to practice healthy coping skills; rather those which maintained a sense of safety. I agree that behavior is important in seeing patterns but I feel it's a good communication indicator for how the psyche interprets information and then acts on it. So blame shifting is communicating the person's lack of feeling safe. While it works to provide them this sense, it is deteriorating for relationships. I'm speaking from personally seeing myself continually grow through this. Blame shifting is a safety mechanism. A very functional and debilitating one. It means to stand in front of that 360° mirror & see truth for 100% accuracy. To abandon one's self. A gut-wrenching process.
Great explained!
Becca Selman: well said, I have a sister who is cluster b and she could make Bill Clinton look like Mother Treasa, lol
Great explanation! I have BPD and I definitely can do this sometimes. Usually once I calm down and stop being so reactive, I can admit when I was "triggered", or whatever the problem may be. This wasn't always the case, but I am trying to better myself.
@@meelabee4400 at least you're trying to better yourself
This is nice. Safety helps and purpose works in my opinion even better. You need to understand what's in it to you when you take the blame.
Circular conversations from hell .
Don’t bother your wasting your time . God bless the therapists who get these characters in their offices and deal with these behaviors on a daily basis . It’s mind boggling to say the least .
Angelique Grace “Circular conversations from hell” - YES!
Tee Twetherlow I’m so sorry , I know all to well what’s it’s like . Best advice I can give it try to keep her on topic and if she refuses .... just walk away . I know in my case as soon as the crazy making started I would feel my head spin and started to feel confused ..... nope nope nope .
Sophie I totally understand . You May or may not be interested . Google enneagram , there are a few websites out there that will allow you to take free tests to figure out your personality type . I’m a 6 loyalist with a wing 5 observer . After learning my personality type I was able to come to the realization my personality type was ,and why I tolerated with the full knowledge something was wrong and I was wasting my time . It’s an amazing tool , it’s what propelled me to
The next level of letting go .
Judy Lee I’ve gotten to the the point where I decided I’m not a tree I can move . We have to choice to either have super strong boundaries and no fear of defending ourselves or just walk away . I tried confrontation and it don’t work so now I just move out of my own way “ literally “
Just to let you know, whilst ‘interesting’, the Enneagram Personality test is not scientifically based. It’s basically a bunch of Barnum statements - I fit parts of most of the types, as they generally can apply to everyone.
Nice video. A few of my family members are manipulative, blame shifters. They never apologize, nor are they responsible for bad things they've done, it's someone else's fault. These types will rarely seek help because the idea of them being mentally I'll is something they would never accept.
There is a book called Mindset, it explains the growth versus the fixed mindset. I used to have this problem. It helped me a lot.
@@wanttobeasage2952 could you post the author. There's a few books worth that title. Thx
@@user-gs2hg8km1y Carol Dweck
I have a family member like this. I found the only way I can grow is to recognise that this person can’t help it and forgive them really and work on myself and my own failings because you can’t fix other people they have to fix themselves if they want to. I have done a lot of shadow work and have recognised that the consequence of having a negative, blame shifting parent is low self esteem and discomfort when things go right it makes me very uneasy. Historically I tend to gravitate to people who will use me and treat me badly because that’s my comfort zone.I also take the blame for everything because that’s learnt behaviour and a safety mechanism. I also realised that If I meet someone doesn’t have to be in a romantic sense who’s just nice like a potential friend or work colleague whatever i immediately don’t make an effort with them because I don’t feel worthy of their friendship. It’s the same in my career I don’t try to move up the ranks because I feel everyone’s better than me and I will never want to or be able to have leadership skills. How to fix this I don’t know if I can but I think it’s good to have self awareness. Good luck on your healing journey
Yes Dr Grande we have too stop the blame game ,take responsibility for our reactions . I have Borderline some symptoms do get better like I can ignore people who try too provoke me , I simply ignore instead of react . But I still find romantic relationships difficult still even at 47 , I'm still not ready . But I'm in therapy will be for the rest of my life as I know there is no cure ,just management.
Oh my gosh I have been in group therapy where there were two individuals swore up and down that the cause of all their ills were due to some other person or entity. I am not the therapist, just another group member so I wouldn't try to hold myself accountable for not acting as if I were. I liked to challenge these 2 individuals by saying things like, "ultimately, it was your decision to do x, y, z" or "how can you be mad at someone who is mad at you because of something YOU did. Anger does not negate anger." What I realized is they believed group therapy to be some sort of support group for the wronged. As if they believed that everyone should have sympathy for them due to the plight of some perceived injustice. Due this behavior, they would basically steal all of the time available in a session as if it were an individual session with a therapist and 4 or 5 onlookers.
I started going to this therapy - these individuals had already been members for a long time - and it took two months of wondering if that was how group therapy was supposed to work. I'm pretty certain it's not, which then caused me to lose faith in the therapist's ability to provide therapy. Around the two month mark - two months of these same 2 people droning on and on every week - I finally decided to say something to one of them and it felt like a nuclear bomb went off. They became so defensive it was un-freaking-real because noone else in the group had ever challenged them - not even the therapist in the years that had passed before I joined. They started screaming and yelling at me like no other adult I've ever been around in my adult life. The one individual during the ensuing tirade told me I don't ever talk about my "issues". I sure did look them in the eye and monotonally said, "you don't give me a chance. You don't give anyone else a chance. You suck the life out of everyone else by constantly replaying over and over your tales of how you have been so traumatically victimized your entire adult life and blame the people you perceive to have wronged you for the precarious state of your life." I continued, "if you really look at it, it was your actions and inactions that have brought you to this point. It's not the fault of anyone else but you. Nobody can make you do anything and you can't make anybody else do anything so drop the bs of "he made me do...whatever. Examine your own life and I'll worry about mine."
I know, I know... But, really, how long is a person supposed to sit back and continue to let someone do this? I'm just not THAT patient with people like that. It irritates me to no end.
Good work. Why didn't the therapist open their mouth and say this lol. You are right. All they ever do is blame everyone else for their problems.
Good Job. I agree 💯. They chose to put that cock mold bolo in their mouth. They made that conscious choice. They probably blame SARS-2 for their addiction or maybe the wife if they were infected. Then justify everything, while naked, by claiming they were trying to kill Covid in the mouth throat and lungs. The body temperature will be blamed on the Covid fever. Lol
Just BS. 4 shits & giggles. 2 people close to me never take responsibility for when I’m wronged. One never takes responsibility for anything so it’s expected. The other outside our relationship is incredibly responsible. I hear Destiny’s Child playing in the background when walks in the room. Lol. They both claim Its me. I do, do the splitting thing and anger. I’ve apologized to both when I know I was wrong or reacted wrong. I never have heard them tell me ,” I’m sorry” once. Anyways thank you Sir & thank you Dr. Grande.
Dr. Grande can you do one on BTK Dennis Rader. Crazy how his job & church position helped manage his criminal impulses.
A
I really wonder what the therapist said after. Because what u said was a learning opportunity for them. Screaming to someone is unacceptable so I wonder how she intervened.
@@alexianeves she kicked her out of the group. Thank goodness but, I didn't stay long after that. I just didn't feel like I was getting anything out of it.
That was on the news. "The wind just blew that pot into my purse". True story.
My husband: Switching peoples license plates.
Me: What the heck for?
His response. Hours of paperwork for the police for arresting him and putting him in jail taking his time. ~~~
WTF? He was caught in the act and still claims its the cops fault.
This was 4 years ago. It took as long to heal from the aftermath of leaving. 🤤🤒🤢😢😡🤕🕵️♀️
Dr. Grande, you have helped me so much! I love the way you educate. You are so clear, concise, and spot on. I appreciate the time and care that you put into your videos. It is valuable to so many people.Thank you!💜
To me, blame shifting seems like a sign of weakness, because it surrenders control over one's circumstances to others, which is especially ironic if it is a grandiose narcissist who does the shifting.
Excellent observation!
I think the intention is to guilt-trip and gaslight so they can loop you in their game. But I see what you mean, if they want to control you ...they can go about it with kindness and accepting fault?!
Yes blame shifting is a weakness cluster b are the worst people to deal with it's impossible for them to recover because they blame shit.
SK - I wonder if they have hidden dependency traits?
DJT ???
Thank you for helping me understand.
Your lectures place me back in university.
The research paper I am writing is my experiences you help me understand.
Thank you Dr Grande
I have only one way. Of. Dealing with people like this. I stay Away from them
It's called "no contact".
Thats great if you can do that.
I wish I could. I have family like this. And due to religious reasons, I am not allowed to avoid them
@@h.borter5367 religion is a choice.
I would really like that if i could. But quarantine is a bitch
The whole idea of blame shifting starts from childhood.
I've seen it in families, where a parent is super critical on even the slightest detail.
Harshly judgmental and punishing.
Children tend to shift the blame to protect themselves from punishment.
It is the only way.
They learn it and keep using it into adulthood.
It is exhausting.
It is the most difficult thing to handle and it is hard not to get defensive in return.
Not always. Antisocial Personality Disorder can be genetic also. The frontal lobes of the brain don't develope properly. Though they can suddenly grow in the individuals late 20s/30s and the symptoms improve.
I think this is what im dealing with with someone, evidenced by them later admitting it and apologizing, sincerely I believe. I don't think it's always pathological, sometimes its just trama
We don't have insight when we don't understand or perceive our own emotions. Insight requires emotional maturity and the ability to be reflective. Cluster B personality disordered persons ALL suffer from arrested development.
In layman's terms they have a child's emotionality. Do we see many children taking real responsibility? Ahh....no. Malformation of the development of a healthy SELF due to trauma, rejection, abuse etc is the catalyst of this abnormal development leading to personality disorders.
That's absolutely amazing 🤔how brains work they playing with others subconsciously
I just can't believe I'm (all of us) are fortunate enough to actually have access to your deeply learned wisdoms! And, you somehow know how to word and condense so much information into your teachings.
Thank you Dr. Grande!!
Dr. Grande ~ you're videos are so insightful ~ I've learned a lot and find many of your topics on point in relation to situations in mental health issues many of us face. I have been diagnosed with Bipolar 1 Disorder and feel that part of my 'therapy' and continuous effort to improve is by studying all I can about my condition. You're a great help to me. :)
Thank you for what you do. Thank you for this. You've made my anxiety way less.
Thank you so much Dr. Grande. I have replaced my "Facebook scrolling habit" with immediately opening one of your videos.
Your videos give me motivation. Living a life surrounded by cluster b personality types is hard on our mental health and you are great medicine.
Well explained. Thanks Dr. Grande 😃
You look good in wearing a tie today 👔
yeah, my brother blames everything on other people ... it's really hard to deal with ...
Another interesting/useful video, thanks. :-)
The emphasis on lack of insight as an impediment to moving away from blame-shifting is helpful. It also seems to me to be a kind of global version of the idea that people with BPD traits (for example) have a diminished capacity for cognitive empathy....?
The lack of insight issue as an impediment to understanding the truth so that the fragile ego can be protected also makes sense.
Learning. So. Much. :-)
Great explanation and examples. Thanks Dr. G
Thank you so much for your videos. They help a lot understanding many situations and not feeling insane in the attempt.
Fantastic explanation. Thank you, Dr.
Thank you! This is actually very helpful!
Hey, I can't read them myself but loving the subtitles in the exotic lettering--looks like Cyrillic script-- thank you!! Dr. Grande Dr. Global. But not leaving us for Hollywierd haha!
This is the best video I’ve seen by you yet.
Thank you!
Thank you Dr Grande. Most informative vlog. Have a good weekend 😊
Thanks amigo Todd I'm learning a lot from you
Hey, i found this insightful. ive lot of conversations or what i thought were conversation it really help me in my treatment to get a real and professional perspective. ive waited year trying to find myself and dropped out of school and sat through years of people shifting and shifting myself.
Thanks Todd. it means a lot
Thank you so much for this! As a clinician, I find your material here to be spot on and informative. Working with clientele that meet criteria for various cluster B types is very frustrating, taxing, and puts me on the road to burnout. Generally, I have much healthier and consistent boundaries with all my clients now. In my practice, cluster B types fizzle themselves out - they want someone that tells them what they want to hear and validates them (they feel like we take their side when in reality we are just being there with them). As a clinician, one must be prepared for the malicious malingering that occurs with most clientele with cluster B sxs. I can't tell you how many times I have had the conversation, "it's probably not a good idea to involve me in your (insert boorish legal action here) claim."
I’m sorry to hear that. I can relate with you because my father and there were many people that I encountered. I’m curious. Why don’t you let them go? Their fees are not worth that burn out.
Dr Grande, could you please speak in more detail about how the tactic (not the ‘value’) of taking a non-judgemental stance could be effective in working with people who are blame-shifting? Thanks so much for all your videos.
The more I learn about borderline the less I blame them. The family of origin in everyone I have known with BPD is a complete mess.
They usually act in a role they have been designed to play. Having said this , therapy can work really well and taking personal responsibility is important for everyone.
This was so helpful thank you!
ty for this ! ur videos on cluster b and specifically bpd called me the fuck out
i go to therapy to help those around me. ur videos have helped me in the identifying portion of treatment
Hello,
as far as I understand the principle behind blame-shifting, it's basically someone unable to take a "hit" into their ego by admitting they are doing something wrong, thus twisting the victim-perpetrator dynamics in their favour.
However, what if someone is literally developing their own moral system, which might be based on their observations (which they try to base on objective facts) and does not prioritize their ego (meaning there are potential actions within such a system, in which the individual developing a new moral system could hypothetically conclude that they are at fault for not following their own conclusions) but some other principle, they are consciously aware that their system is different from the "conventional one" and then someone acuses them of for example creating illegal drugs and they try to explain their system to the lawmen while consciously aware that eventually, the "common system" is more "popular" (and thus powerful) and they have to accept the fact that their fate will be decided by the "common system."
So now they are being charged with this mindset: "Within my new moral system (which I consider superior to the current one), I did not do anything wrong but because a more "conventional" system is active now, I will have to accept my fate, however I do not consider this fair, rather I see my action as a "self-sacrifice" to promote a system I consider better."
Or alternatively, when this thought is pushed a little further and the same person would get caught a little later when they had time to further developo their new system, they would have this mindset:
"Within my new moral system (which I consider superior to the current one), I did not do anything "objectively wrong" by creating illegal drugs, however I failed because I let myself get caught, which is just me not being skilled/cautious enough and I could have expected this to happen to me."
In this situation, the individual sees themselves as the faulty one, but for very different reasons than the "mainstream ones."
Would this be considered blame-shifting?
As someone with BPD , the "lack of insight" thing is phenomenal, and i want to add with that... It's very dependent on your emotional state (negative/neutral/positive) and deep-breathing with long exhales is like THE hack to relax..
Also the non-judgemental thing is awesome to learn, I'll apply that to video games lol
Thank you for describing my hell! Having grown up with a Cluster B parent, and a goldenchild sibling, I've always been the scapegoat. I keep finding myself in this situation as an adult and I resent the hell out of it. Obviously your advice is geared towards practitioners. However, practitioners and nonpractitioners alike are subject to being scapegoats and having blame shifted to them. Since direct confrontation and pattern recognition aren't effective (yes, I know this from personal experience!) can the target of blame shifting do anything independent of the treatment professional? Often these people are not involved in the treatment of the Cluster B disordered, but have amazing insight. What is the scapegoated to do? How can s/he have a more effective relationshipship (regardless of context - could be personal or professional) with the Custer B disordered who is being scapegoated?
Miss E, I am so sorry for your childhood ( and now adult) experience. I too, had a childhood where I was the scapegoat and I had one sibling who was more or less the golden child, but when I left the home at age 18 because of being in survival mode, it seems that my sibling then became the scapegoat. I have had to work on forgiveness towards my parent but the personality disorder ( ASPD and probably narcissism) remains, and I have found that limited time with that parent, and prayer for them is what I have had to do for my own sanity. I don’t know of anyone with these personality disorders who have ever been healed. It’s heartbreaking . The Lord knows the answer, but we may not in this lifetime .
@@cristipeck does praying help?
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet I'm an atheist and in my own view prayers don't help, some people do find them helpful. Don't hate me for saying that but I believe it to be a confirmation bias.
@@Eden_M exactly
@@cristipeck is funny how always ALWAYS narcissist dont lose a minute to become their beautiful adore golden child the new scapegoat the moment the current one leave them and never comeback .... didnt you JUST LOVE TO THE CORE that kid of yours ??? Ohhhh right since now you dont have a dumpsters to project all yous issues and problems you can not only love now. Sick personas, hate them
Great video Dr. GRANDE, very insightful. Is blame shifting similar to Projection?
Thank you for making your cups available for purchase. They make nice Christmas 🎁 presents.
Another video idea: how to avoid being a partner to bipolar and narcissistic partners.
Also how to recover for the mental health trauma you get from being a supportive partner to someone with BP
Yes. This. We have no resources.
1. Develop the discipline to walk away when your boundaries are crossed in the future
2. Go no contact completely, ignore all hoovers, allow time to pass and meet new people. It's slow
They should make videos for people with these disorders to work through this. It’s just something that stuck with that person since they were a kid. Time to relearn childhood wrongs.
Another insightful video. Just a quick question: how would you assess deceitfulness in ASPD?
Great video!
Finally someone pointing out taking the blame out of blame-shifting. Blaming is a BIG problem in EVERY conflict. Lets talk, lets analyze, lets find common ground and develope together !
I have experience of dating someone that was definitely cluster B. But there seemed to be elements of bpd, narcissism and histrionic personality involved with them. ?? I dealt with lack of empathy, rages, excessive need for attention and admiration, blame shifting, and generally being devalued.
Can you do a video on the differences of suicidal ideation and suicidal tendencies? Thank you.
Thank you Dr. Grande for your awesome vids!!! One question if you would. Im trying to understand how insight and ability to show empathy relate to each other. Are this two phenomena related?
I don't what the research has to say but I would think that an ability to empathize would require insight into ones self enough to be self aware in some kind of way.
Very good video.
thank you for this behaviour. my whole family is cluster B(i think) I am not in the medical field. My husband blame shifts ALL the time. I point it out, he just goes on and on and goes into hissy fits like a child. I am sick of it, i stopped talking and engaging him and go into another room, not talking, just doing my own thing. He really has NO INSIGHT as he will come to my room and make up random crap "need to discuss with you".At this point i just tell him: get OUT. OR: just dont talk dont answer do nothing, play dead/asleep. Just so sick of his delusions. He is very paranoid too. Your lectures help me so much. We are not newlyweds...30+yrs. i am tired (mentally) He s needy like a child and talks for hours at end...demanding ..like a toddler.
Something brought up by other commenters that people need to be aware of: while blame shifting has been seen in all of the cluster b disorders, not everyone with a cluster b disorder of any kind does that.
@Ninth Tome I'm not sure how to pm people on youtube. You're welcome to if you figure out a way to though.
Great movie examples.
I wonder if blame shifting and avoiding blame are prevalent in other disorders. I feel like it’s very hard to spot within ourselves, even without a diagnosable illness. But also I wonder if it’s still considered blame shifting if the person has the ability to acknowledge they were wrong later/ after calming down.
I’ve heard the concept “if you’re question yourself about having x,y, or z, you probably don’t” the theory stands to say that you have to blatantly deny it/ assume the opposite for it to be true. Such as: if you think you’re dumb, you probably aren’t. because those who are seen as classically unintelligent , think they have big IQ’s/ are really smart. Or if you’re concerned that you’re a sociopath bc you hurt people, you aren’t because you care about it. Not sure if this concept is situationally true one or not.
Dr. Grande, please speak on the traits of these personality disorders, and how they can be found in people without the full on personality disorder.
It’s good to finally make sense of what was so hauntingly confusing for so long. Dated a girl for 3 years- the first several months were amazing until I found out she lied about her friendship with her ex in which she put herself in a situation to cheat twice- once in front of me (she didn’t cheat but also does it even matter?). Would sabotage my birthday by going off on me if I asked to disappear with her for a second while with friends. She would hit herself if she were super upset during an argument and triangulate by constantly mentioning her ex’s and bragging about how they were needy and thought the worst of her. She would manipulate me to not leave her when she deserved it most and then would go behind my back about how I wasn’t the end all for her, ultimately dumping me despite telling me a week prior I was the love of her life. She then begged for my friendship and then exploited it when she could. We stopped being cool in December because she lied to me about moving (we had been together/off on for nearly 5 years at this point). We started to text a bit again a couple of months ago and she would say how she missed me. Found out not long ago she has a new gf who she posts 24/7 despite saying not even a year ago about how much she mocks people who post excessively on Instagram. She refused to post us together most of our relationship. Point being- I now know she had a personality disorder and may have even been a bit of a textbook psychopath. It’s good to know you aren’t those horrible things people try gaslighting you into thinking you are.
Dr Grande, what separates a jerk from a narcissistic personality disordered person? The NPD person is a worse jerk?
According to your observations Dr. Grande,
how long does it take for an abuser, a borderline for instance, to actually recognize their behaviour is abusive?
If we set clear boundaries how long does it take them to own their part?
The answer is never. They will suck your life force away. Run. Even if you love the afflicted person, you have to save yourself.
@@brielleanyez7113 they usually do it in their mid to late 40's
Blame shifting: I confronted someone in my life with audio recordings of them telling a group of people defamatory statements about a member of that group. This liar told the group that I told this liar those things, which wasn't true. I had never witnessed the accused do any of the things he was being accused of. Before I found out that my name was being used in these defamations, this liar had also told me alleged misdealings with this person. I happened to know this accused person pretty well, and the accusations didn't line up with my assessment of this person. After I was provided with the recordings, I confronted this person in an email with some of the other people she had been lying to ccd on it. I attached the recordings, and I laid out which lies this person had told, and was even able to prove that she was lying on 2 of the lies. Even confronted with all that, she responded to the group saying I had told her those things, and I'm mentally unwell, and trying to seize power in the group (wtf?) and that I need healing. It blew my mind. What's worse is that some of the group actually took her side, even in the face of the evidence.
Person A sees a pattern of behaviour /boundry issue by person B . Person A cares for person B a lot and decides with honest and sincere intent to inform person B of there innate flaw . To observers person A could be NPD and being critical for its own sake or not . Private or public usually determines that one , not really . Person B may or may not have any disorder but deems any criticism as an affront placing themselves as victim . Person A is not the hero like they thought but is now the villian . This then invalidates your cognitive function and devalues the claim . In reality person A is the victim bringing issue to the fore , person B is the villian for purposely ignoring the issue . Where is the hero really ? The hero is the resolution of the issue/problem in order to grow . It requires a lot of mindfulness to accept truths of oneself from others , harder still is trusting the spokesperson telling it .
I'm not sure if you want suggestions for topics? Altemeyer's right-wing authoritarianism improved over the earlier F-scale and found only three of the features proposed earlier correlated: authoritarian aggression, submission and focus on conformance with convention. His thesis is available for free to read. I think the relationship to personality disorders is a complicated one: I expect overt narcissism is going to yield authoritarian aggression, but not authoritarian submission, for instance. My motivation for asking for this as a potential topic is that while people with narcissistic tendencies are discussed frequently, borderline tendencies somewhat less, and histrionic tendencies are probably considerably under-done, authoritarian tendencies and the three-feature construct of right-wing authoritarianism might be simultaneously much more relevant at least some of the time and yet overlooked in the general dialogue.
The most dangerous thing in the world is an administratively competent (but intellectually incompetent, by definition) authoritarian who's got themselves all ideologically aroused over some vision of absolute certainty.
Is it CPTSD in that cognitive defence with blameshifting? Or do they shift the blame with ease and awareness? ✨
Great film examples! I love that scene with Jack Nicholson and I love the whole movie. That whole movie is about blame shifting. And The 6th Sense is great, there's another similar movie also about ghosts who don't know they're ghosts, with Nicole Kidman, can't remember the title.
I think it's THE HOURS if I recall correctly.
@@ajc2208 No, it's THE OTHERS! But thanks for reminding me. The Hours is where she plays Virginia Woolf. A great movie!
Oh, of course LOL. Yes I saw both movies a while back. Got both titles confused. Thank you for the reminder.
Are Cluster B's associated with arrested emotional maturity?
Yes. I need to locate the article, but it has been written that emotional maturity stops around age 8 younger.
@Samuel Loomis Incredible stuff. Thank you for sharing. Emotions are a gift and a burden. Is it correct to say not having them-if that's the right way to say it-is like ocular blindness? I can roughly imagine blindness because I can close my eyes, but emotions are harder to switch off. Do you ever feel like you missed opportunities or gained something by not having them? Do you generally think emotions are an obstruction or a guiding force? Thank you for helping us understand!
ALL cluster B personality disordered persons suffer from arrested development. It's not a maybe , it's the central core feature of cluster B personality disorders.
Question, which Cluster Bs hunt supply? Yes, NPD , but what are the others ? Some play get your goat game. Please make a video on this, BPD they do not need supply correct? The what validation or a response, this I’d different correct. Thank you 👍☝️
It just occured to me that nature provided very efficiant ways to perfect the psyche.. karma. Until one starts to percieve which behaviours and actions inevitably yield specific consequences, there will always be shift of blame going on. This shifting of blame is really a very narrow view of reality. It may be realistic but not entirely real. Bc a person can shift blame on a partner and break up the rship and establish another rship and realize that the same thing is going on again and then blame god? Bad luck? That's when one is forced to the insight that how you respond to situations is going to determine the outcome. And there's countless different ways to respond to the same situation.. i went on a tanget here but eventually one has to do that to get his life under control. One cant be a victim without blaming someone for it. That's the painful insight needed to leave the whole blame game behind
Hmm..I wonder if blame shifting is a bit similar to when people who are in an argument focus on any pointless detail to avoid getting to the actual point?(For example: Patty and Eric are fighting because Eric drinks at least 95% of the time, Patty says that she is "..worried and tired because Eric drinks all the time", Eric responds by saying "I don't drink ALL THE TIME! Just 95% of the time!"
🥺 it’s so draining.
@@blessedandbeautiful8365 It is☹ And you eventually stop talking about things, lose yourself, and try to except the situation, but it truly is draining.❤
We stopped at a truck stop to sleep and my narcissistic babies mama left a mess outside in a parking spot all night. In the morning an RV couldn't park in the spot. When I asked her to clean it I was told they aren't dying, I am overreacting and I never clean anything so I should clean her mess. This is their outlook on common human decency.
Blame-shifting:
Well, I didnt aggree with my BPD and was about to leave her apartment, so she punched in the face, kicked me down the stairs.
I tore my leg open and was bleeding through my trousers. So i decieded to leave this relationship... Now after 6 month my BPD contacted me and said she think it is good to give me a second chance.
Sounds like npd
@@negativeaffirmations69 my both yeah
Hello dr. Grande. Will this video about 4 things that councelors don't know about bipolar disorder come back? I wanted to watch it, didn't have time and now it's gone :(
Sorry, I just put it back up. I made an editing error that is now corrected.
@@DrGrande that's cool, thank you
So I was diagnosed with BPD but I have some anti social personality disorder traits ,and that was very hard to diagnose for doctor's.
The unexamined life has a great risk to devolve into a cluster of coping behaviors that eventually is more about a manufactured narrative than being plugged into reality. Once this happens an unbiased third-party must intervene but how when trust in non-existent?
if i have the insight to realize i have lack of insight... do i actually have lack of insight or do i just think that because i've been gaslit into believing that? or is this me shifting blame right now, saying, ''no i don't actually do these things my narcissistic parents just make me feel like i do this''
i mean it's probably a bit of both (bpd and ptsd diagnosed) but man it's an even bigger mindfuck when i blameshift half the time and take other people's blameshifting the other half of the time. when am i rightfully defending myself from a toxic situation, and when am i the perpetrator? filtering all these things through my brain before i give someone a proper response is nearly impossible and i'm merely guesstimating most of the time. i hope it gets easier and i can recognize these things better in the future
The blame shifting is ridiculous… the narc gets fired from a great government job for going to work high.. missing days and behaving as if HE is the manager.. rules didn’t apply to him.. of course he gets fired and somehow tries to make it MY fault.. I didn’t even live in the same state as he did… but tried to make up some outrageous lie to blame ME… Luckily I didn’t fall for it… him getting fired had absolutely nothing to do with me
Good advice
Could it be that a person who suffers from PTSD (or / and CPTSD) may have developed covert-borderline personality with co-morbid narcissism?
If you’re asking if it’s possible for that to happen, I’m sure it is.
My partner has bpd cluster b.. Hes attending to counselling... He also has alcohol addiction and he goes to AA... I wonder will counselling help him from telling lies, blaming other or attacking other for his mistakes
How about the newer studies about bpd that shows how many people acctually looses the symptomes and are considered ” cured” ( usally around age 40).. is there any videos about that?
Artist ByChoice none I’ve ever known, that’s for sure
@@romepix actually, it is true that they look into themselves in their mid to late 40's, but that doesn't mean they'll be cured.
I'd like to apologize for my comment/thoughts(deleted) regarding psychotherapy
in general.
I've seen more people get better/recover than not; especially when they know there's a problem and seek therapy/treatment asap!
PS: Just wondering if diagnosed w the above BPD-Cluster B+ are there therapist that specialize in this disorder and how do you find the right one?
Thanks Dr. G.
Be well..
The illegal drug ones is a bullseye. Think how much suffering the arrests cause to normal people, but the others as always great analysis.
If self-esteem is strengthened so as to build a healthier and secure ego, would the individual be able to better accept consequences for his/her actions and stop blame shifting? I am trying to do this in my work with children. I assume that by the time a person develops a cluster b personality disorder that the grandiosity and self-worship take over as defense fortresses for the ego. Any self-esteem building at that point is just perceived as glorification.
The only disorder that has grandiosity and self worship is npd. Now I can't speak for npd, but I know my bpd gives me the opposite of narcissism: I have horribly low self esteem. Because of this, I used to see any mistake I made as proof that I really am worthless. However my therapist taught me to see that everybody has both good traits and bad traits, so just because I make mistakes doesn't mean I'm all bad.
Thank you for that insight.
Very interesting! Any developments?
Great analogies you used to help people understand “lack of insights” in the mentally ill!
ive endured this "yelling at a brick wall and the echo returns with all that i said and now im to blame for it all" emotional, verbal what i think is accurately deemed abuse, im not sure but its ben ongoing and constant since i was 6-7 to present day (now 43) and is why i just avoid my mom, at most all costs, ( for reference of the lengths i went to avoid being around my mom so that the chance of her yelling at me wouldn't happen, In my first 10 years of driving, I logged 1million miles between work shifts, being in hs, having full after school activities schedule and having never gone outside my home city's metro area id long 700 miles in a saturday/sundya just staying away from home driving cuz mom was there
Isn’t it common that a person can have traits from multiple cluster b disorders? As well as have mental disorders at the same time?
yes. its actually very common
Thanx.I blameshift
I've dated a borderline who manipulates and stalks people online, and these past months I faced blame shifting many many times, she didn't feel self, she denied the facts, she even denied that we dated, she told me I was delusional and stuff. How can I move past it? I think she wanted to make me feel guilty, because I knew about the victims of her obsessions and manipulations.
Ignore her, act like you don’t know her and don’t show emotions if she is around. Put on a poker face like you don’t care at all. She will go crazy, you welcome:)
I don’t think it is blame shifting to recognize that if an individual had (has) grown up in 60 degree below zero weather, and the Pastor is asking the mother to have more children and just trust God will pay the electric bill - that’s not blame shifting. But, I have seen adults who have grown up under these stressors shift the blame, and shift blame because neither mother nor God nor the pastor can be wronged. I feel somewhat badly for them but they can be really, really difficult to befriend. If Dr can clue me I would be grateful. I’ve known people under those positions to be really really really complicated in abusing others including their children. As you have said Doctor there is deeply ingrained patterned behavior they are sure is sanctified by God and nature leading them to be artfully and manipulatively meaner than hell.
I’m having to deal with my BPD ex who I had a messy breakup with. He sexually assaulted me and I’m now in a situation where he’s blame shifting on me and reported me to the police because of the situation. I didn’t even make a report on what he did to me but now I have to because of him. He’s distorting the truth and still having to fight him even after two years after breaking up. He really doesn’t want to take accountability for his actions. I’ve been looking a lot at BPD to understand it more.
Really hope you’re in a better place now. Sending you so much love and light. ❤️❤️❤️
Been there with the drug incident and distortions. There was never a re-evaluation. This placed the entire family in danger. Insight? Non-judgemental? I really don't believe that there is such a thing as non-judgemental, ever. If you are talking of an extreme NPD/ASPD/Psychopath with absolutely zero remorse or guilt, I believe that therapy only feeds them, giving them the skillset to do even worse manipulations and this process trains them to be even more deceitful. Obviously, everything is on a continuum.
My ex has gotten away with so much crap, because he blame shifts me. It’s unreal how good he is at it.
Would you like some skills to learn to deal with those behaviors?
@@barb7124 Yes
Are there any other mental disorders or situations that cause blame shifting? The reason I ask is there's someone I know who doesn't fit any of the cluster B personality disorder symptoms but they always blame shift and accept no responsibility for things. Mostly they are very contrary and argumentative in many situations when the other person reacts to this or gets upset by this then this is all that's concentrated on, the blame shifter won't acknowledge they started the argument and the other person is just put down for their "unreasonable" behaviour. This person won't accept any responsibility or acknowledge their contrary and disagreeable personality and behaviour.
I know your post is old but you should know trama from punitive parents can cause this too
My son does this all the time!!!!!! He is 14 & now things have gotten so bad that everything I say is met with resistance & defiance. I thought he had to argue about everything until I saw this video. I’ve been struggling with this issue for 3 yrs & I’m at my ends Witt I’ve confronted & disciplined. I haven’t validated the situation because he is the type of child I give him an inch he takes 100 miles. This leaves me feeling if I validate his cognitive distortions it will only make things worse please help
he's probably just experiencing puberty. its best to kinda step away and let him figure himself out, though if these symptoms persist up to 16 -18 years, its best to get him treatment. also, get him checked out for conduct disorder at 15
等一下为什么中文去商店 p a n d a thank you this is more than puberty we have been dealing with this since 6 it’s just getting worse we have counseling & all the resources available to us Needless to say this is all the results of being taken away at 5 from CPS because I whipped his sister with a belt a single mother isn’t allowed to discipline my child but if she becomes unruly I would have been a bad mom I did something right all 3 of my oldest best all the odds & are productive parts of society. He just picked up bad habits & tons of anger
@@mzdyamondladi well, whatever you do, try to make sure that he's learning coping skills and while remaining distant to make him more comfortable in the relationship, do make sure he knows you love him. glad i could help.
等一下为什么中文去商店 p a n d a Thank you we just meet with his new counselors we are entering into a program that is intensive & he will be seen basically daily but at least 4 days a week & I have a clinician I work with on top of my counselor I see 2 times a week so best believe I’m doing everything I can. My sons counselor we just left would tell you that he has patients with two parents in the home that don’t even put in 5% of the effort I put in to my son so I go all out now I don’t know for sure that he believes that I love him right now but what I do know is at the end you know I loved him and I did everything in my power and that’s just because he’s a team and he thinks everything is unfair and We can’t make them believe anything that they don’t want to I appreciate these videos I do my own research because if don’t no one will that’s why I’m thankful these things r available you just have to know what to watch take care
@@mzdyamondladi i wish you well in your future endeavors
When I was a Paramedic, they never mentioned Cluster A, B, or C. We never had to put it on the Assessment Report and I was a Paramedic in 2017; that's when I needed to quit altogether.
This is not how I would treat a patient (thinking of them as clusters?)
Even though on my first job, a doctor got me sent away from the work because I "cared too much," I still prefer to care a sliver than to be proud of a bedside manner that would make Attila the Hun jealous.
Nobody else liked that doctor either. I should have listened when they warned me, but I thought every dr could be like the one I was married to.
Most of the calls we got were for people with this emergency mental condition that could, more often than I liked to see, be attributed to effects from their medication. It was called Excited Delirium and a person could die from it, usually dying "by police," who had no real grasp of what the hell they were doing with it and never wanted to listen to me. They have no business treating mental health emergencies, but our area has given them the right because of how utterly violent the person w/ ED is.
I was raised by my mum who has borderline personality disorder. Since my Dad was a strong man mentally and physically, all of her ire was directed at me. I liken it to living in a totalitarian dictatorship, such as China or North Korea.