Rejection and Abandonment in Cluster B Personality Disorders and Their Intimate Partners
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Real or perceived rejection leads patients with cluster B personality disorders to react with hypervigilance. The narcissist's grandiosity is challenged (narcissistic injury) and it often results in narcissistic rage.
The primary psychopath sees rejection as a frustrating obstacle to be overcome and vindictively obliterated. The secondary psychopath see it all in the framework of a power play to be won. The borderline patient catastrophises and considers every rejection, however minor or justified, as abandonment: she split her partner and escalates her extreme behaviors in a hurtful and dysempathic cascade. The histrionic takes every rejection as a blow to her self-esteem and uses seduction, flirtation, and attention-seeking displays of emotionality to restore it. All these patients somatize.
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Sam Vaknin has save the world by his contents for a long time. I just wanna say thanks you.
I have a codependent relationship . My mother is Bordeline , abusive I was ignored and beaten . I was put into foster care for 10 years . Dad was schizophrenic. I attracted narcissistic or avoidant partners . Chosen to be single for 5 years now . I’ve had to re-learn self love and somehow not being attracted to partners that treat me bad . Hard to know when you have had no reference point of love .. very hard .. I find men that are too kind or like me to much, makes me feel smothered . Can’t win .. I don’t want to be attracted to men that are hot and cold.. I really don’t . Hence being single for so long ..
I like the "Human Magnet Syndrome". Dr. Vaknin has the side of the Narcissist down. The approach from the prospective of a self-love deficit hits home. I think it takes a kinder approach. We need healing from Narcissistic abuse. I fall in love with a narcissist but not their behavior patterns I fall in love with people's behavior patterns. I miss a connection on an emotional level. I can see where we come from the same mold.
@@lykitagawa do you think codependent and sensitive/ empathic people can change to attract the right partners if they do the work
@@tulinbeyduz920 I don't know but I'd like to have hope.
Same here
@@lykitagawa I also appreciate this book by Ross Rosenberg, an author of “Human Magnet Syndrome.” He helped me to accept myself as a codependent in relationship with covert, occasionally malignant, narcissist - an abusive, passive aggressive, distant man. The term Rosenberg invented Self Love Deficiency Disorder (SLDD) seems to be fair but now I am looking at myself and my childhood again in search of potential deeper damage, beyond people pleasing behavior. Painful process, yet I am willing to endure this kind of suffering in hopes of healing. Best wishes to fellow travelers in this path of recovery from childhood neglect snd abuse. Thank you Sam Vaknin. You give me tools to deal with my wounds and hope I can get better.
I agree that due to the comorbidity with these disorders it should be looked at as a spectrum. I think many cluster B patients have traits from more than one of these disorders. I'm also realizing how prevalent the somatization is with these people. Very insightful talk, thank you.
Thank you so much, Dr. Vaknin! This is helping me heal. It's been 9 months since the breakup, since the worst of betrayals. You're right; from one hour to the next, I could go from the most loving supporting girlfriend, to the evil witch, because I dared to ask him if he was going to tell his parents (who share everything!!) that he had been diagnosed with BPD. This vicious texting mean things, or not telling me why he was angry became progressively worse. If he had just told me he was afraid of abandonment...if he had just said the truth, but I guess these relationships get to a point of viciousness that it's hard to come back. But, here I am, still feeling love and no sense of closure. Feeling he stepped on me and crushed my soul, when honestly, I was an amazing partner. But yes...I had pulled back, (like you said we partners tend to pull back too) because his disrespect and aggressiveness were unbearable. I guess we heal with time and understanding that it was an illness that drove everything.
My covert narcissist ex, when he would see someone having a life success on social media or concerned with an issue he wasn’t concerned with he would literally say “They’re not aware of how I’M doing.” And you could tell his grandiosity was being chipped away by the harmless “acts” of his so called circle of friends.
my experience with these creatures is co-morbidity across the board. almost 2 years with one and I saw it ALL. I really think she wanted me dead, with no compunction. it took me awhile to get out for good and I almost caved, literally. at the end she told me about dreams she was having that I had been killed. or raped, by me. been following you for years Sam. your vids woke me up.
Last year, i met a 24 year girl that had exactly this behaviour, in my point of view she show traits of BPD and NPD. She had 5 year relationship which she was cheating to ..twice every time that something was not in her favour. Heavily in to gymnastics, yoga, vegan, cults etc. She had incidents of anorexia, dissasotiation, binge drinking. Very flirtatious , somatic narc for sure obsessed with looks and the body. Uses sex as power play, very sadistic emotionally and in the bed. Told me that she liked women as well so bisexual , she was sleeping with her friend instead with her boyfriend. And the only thing that can describe this soul is HELLO DARKENESS MY OLD FRIEND. I havent seen so much dark in a so small and cute container. Be carefull people they are out there.....
It sounds like my ex... what’s her first name?
Oh yeah, there are definitely Chuckys out here.
I'm a bit like that but i don't cheat. I almost quit my job after my boss constantly being mad at me and threatening me to fire me if she doesn't see any change. So in my anxious mind i thought well i might as well do it myself, since in my mind (i struggle with panic attacks daily and a depressed mood as a result of it) i was doing my best. I wasn't considering myself to be the best employee or whatever, but i was deeply hurt.
I do this in dating too now i have litteraly no tolerance for bs. When i see a guy is only seeing me as a sex object and doesn't make a effort to get to know me and communicate, I tell them that's it it's over, and block them (which is maybe a little bit extreme I agree) Maybe that's a good thing that means I'm getting better. I have being a doormat with men in the past for way too long.
But I'm really scared of abandonment. I'm scared of falling in love again, being deceived and hurt again maybe because i feel things very strongly. I spend way too much money on clothes as well, but stay way from cigarettes and drugs in general. Even with food I try to eat as healthily as I can. I crave stability, security. My goal right now is to have my appartment and a pet. I'm so scared of love. Even new friends. I want them but at the same time what if they leave me again ? Also with all the anxiety I'm having I have really bad memory it's scary.
But I'm going to therapy every week, and I think someday i will be back to my old self, my true self, the one i was before the trauma that was severe clinical depression and everything else that came out because of it.
Sex with somatic narcissist .
Explain in detail plzzz
They make you hypervigilant too, an investigator.
your content is so precious for me, thanks for your sharings.
I have been enjoying your videos very much! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Can you, once talk about children of personalities with cluster B personality disorders. How each of these - borderline, narcissist, and psychopath - affect the development of their children. ..And, how can they heal so that they interrupt the tradition of passing the same pattern to the next generation. Thank you!
Search the channel for multiple such videos. But it is a good idea to summarize it all in one vid. Thanks.
Binge watching your videos, reading your book and can't get enough. Its not always easy to follow your words because english is not my mother tongue, but it's very interessting.
This is by Far the best explanation of Cluster B’s. I was left dumbfounded the other night when my exGF with BPD said I discarded her! I was amazed she used that word on me.
I actually was taking time away from her because her abuse was getting worse & worse. I told her to get help or I can’t be around her (struck rejection).
Now she says I discarded her! Unbelievable.
My BPD girlfriend drove me out of my own space the said I cheated with my be female friend. Later it was revealed to me that she had started a new relationship before any of this happened
@@christopherkenway they seem to always be one step ahead. Searching the new person while their creating drama to end their current. These people are diabolical.
Fascinating information. Sophisticated language. I'm so grateful for these lectures!
Being a BPD diagnosed female currently going through this current situation. I can’t thank you enough for the insight. Things don’t seem so blurred .
Thank you so much for your work, it has helped me understand myself and others so much better. Know Thyself. As within so without. Thank you
Explanation doesn't and could not get any better! Bam! Tremendous teaching
What an inside. Always great listening to you. Master class. Thank you
Insight.
Histrionics are the worst, you reject them and they start crying 😭
I was overly medicated with Cortisone due to a car accident (11 shots in 1 yr) I became extremely explosive, slept alot, no sex drive. My ex BPD, Borderline and NPD rather than take me to a Dr to see what was wrong, took my behavior as "rejection" and cheated on me 2x. Never told me about the first time, 2 time I walked in on. He claimed dissociation. Knew what he was doing was wrong and felt horrible afterwards. He was undiagnosed at the time so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Fast forward 5 years. I start to notice the verbal abuse, lying even though he is medicated. I finally threw in the towel in May. It's a long healing journey but I needed to save myself.
Fantastic stuff as always Sam. Thank you
Those last thoughts, very profound
Yes, the mind is fascinating. Thank you!
Once again Sam very well said and like I said again and again you are simply the best!!!!!🎆🎆🎆
This was very informative and explains a lot. Thank you so much!
Thanks 😊 for all your videos! You're the best!
Thank you so much
Thank you.
I recognize these symptoms in some people. They might come on a bit strong with an opinion which is fine (people are allowed to express themselves) but they can't accept when people distance themselves because they feel hurt by how they treated you. They might insist that the pain and stress you feel isn't real or important and have a hard time validating your lived experience because it contradicts their internal/mental representation of you. Their needs matter more than yours and it's your fault when you go silent. When my own opinions don't always jive with others I know the difference between real abandonment and someone who just feels upset. Conflict and the need to distance doesn't necessarily mean people don't care about you. It just means that people need to approach relationships differently. So when someone accuses me of abandoning them, I take it with a grain of salt because I understand why it's happening. I see it a lot in religion because quite often people equate agreeability and codependence to love, loyalty and goodness. You're basically not allowed to have beliefs that deviate from what's been dictated. I see a lot of infantilized ideas of what love is within those environments. It's not an adult way of viewing love to shame and belittle people you love for not conforming.
Thanks Sam
12:40 I have BPD with secondary dissociative psychopathy but I also regulate my self worth with seduction and attention without the actual interest in following through or actually wanting sex which works great normally, except for when it is directed towards someone I have feelings for. Then it's an even more escalated risk of rejection
Brilliant.
Thank you Sam, a fantastic video which I found very informative and interesting. Sometimes I find the videos hard to follow as I haven’t studied psychology but I found this one easier and enjoyed it, many thanks.
Hold Yourself > Dr. Valkin definitely owns personality topics. If you liked this, I would recommend you go way back to his earlier videos and go forward from there. He had validated a lot for me as well as seeing what my weaknesses were and how I affect others. Hope it helps.
Interesting topic .
thank you
Agreed Proff, ONE with varying degrees of physcopathy 👌
Rejection mainly anticipated because it always happens because we make it happen as a comfort measure that's what we know so we feel inherently bad and u loveable so we must've rejected although the true self wants love so bad the ego sabotages it to keep our status quo. I reject strangers based on if I think they are too good for me like they wouldn't want to hang with me so I reject or ignore first so they can't reject me but then again that setup lends those people ultimately reject me because I train them to do so. If they still try to befriend me I think there is something wrong with them.
I don't have a personality disorder but, I recognise to do some of those behaviours.
Why is it so hard to leave someone whose borderline although they hurt you in numerous ways??
Because they gratify you in many ways.
@@samvaknin can you please explain that in a video? BTW thank you for all you do. I been reading your resources since 2012!!! Thank you for everything. You change lives
Is it …just leave ..I’ve done it
I am that woman you are talking about Mr. Vaknin.
Rachel Rosen me too hun me too 😩😩😩
Are you seeking help?
Do you think women become borderlines rather than narcissists because they are socialised more that way?
Te video on panic merchants:..was just taken down...
Watch it here: ua-cam.com/users/vakninmusings
Prof Vaknin, when the borderline cheats on her partner and than dissociates from the incident, will she ever admit to doing something wrong or will she continue to deny any wrongfulness?
Most borderlines would experience shame and guilt in the aftermath. If she keeps denying that she had done anything wrong is narcissistic or psychopathic behavior.
@sam vaknin
i saw your video about inner/outer object in narc./ borderline./ psychopathic pd. could you explain how someone can be a narcissistic psychopath? it sounds condradicting... if a psychopath only has external objects and a narcissist only has internal objects, how can someone be both?
Switches between modes (like a grandiose Borderline who is a secondary psychopath - watch my recent vid on the Borderline as a psychopath).
Hi Sam, love the information, you're right on about Covid too, the cure is worse than the disease.
Quick question. How do you divorce a borderline without being destroyed by her. I left her nearly a year ago but she's living in my house and has just starting working where I work.
Thanks
samvak.tripod.com/5.html
At about 3:38 what does he mean about people preferring to interact with "internal representations" of their intimate partners? Internal representations?
Watch my convo with Grannon about BPD.
My understanding is that It ties in with projective identification - rather than interact with the reality of what's actually in front of them, people interact with the person they want to see. A classic example is falling head over heels for someone who you don't really know yet, but nonetheless ticks many of your boxes, so your mind ticks the rest and fills in the blanks by ascribing other positive, yet unfounded attributes to them. Works the other way too of course, where the person does something that clashes with the 'internal representation' you had of them, yet may have been a completely consistent behaviour of theirs.
It's worth clarifying that we all do this, it's an essential form of discriminating that all creatures do. In the absence of a complete and exhaustive assessment of the person you're interacting with, it is better to form an impression than be completely oblivious to likely traits the individual would have based on your limited data of them e.g. dirty, unshaven, missing teeth, tattoos all over their face = likely an antisocial individual, so you temper your approach with them.
@@shaggyalonso Thank you for the explanation! That helps me understand what he was talking about.
You can guarantee they get what they want before they reject.
15:20 - 17:00 absolutely true. It happened to me. You would’ve thought I was really a killer after her. It’s so many contradicting words & actions that made me not get close. I’d assume most aren’t diagnose and probably can’t pinpoint the actions. She certainly had extreme difficulty processing her emotions & always thought I’d just stop talking to her.
Sam, they deleted your recent video regarding C***D-19. Could you please re-upload to another site?
Watch it here: ua-cam.com/users/vakninmusings
@@samvaknin Thank you.
Is 16 still considered as formative years? I had a happy childhood but my Dad (who was my idol and best friend) passed away when I was 16. Could this be considered abandonment/trauma that can cause me to be BPD? A lot of friends who are concerned about me have pointed out my extreme mood swings and roller coaster emotions. I've been reading a lot on BPD and I think I have all the characteristics (addictive and seeing people in black and white etc) I am unable to have long term relationships and I am drawn to narcissists :(
Please excuse my English as it's not my first language. I live in a country where mental health issues are not given importance so it's not easy for me to get help.
Formative years are from 0-6.
OMG I am so star struck, I can't believe you replied to my comment. I've been reading and watching you since 2013 and I think you were one of the first to discuss NPD when people were not as aware of it yet. I am puzzled because I have all the traits of a BPD but I had a happy childhood, and until now I have very supportive and loving family. The only trauma I could think of was losing my father (who I worship and love so much) at 16 yrs old. It makes me wonder if this is genetic.
@@michelleschwarz8476 keep educating yourself but pay attention to your feelings and your body signals re: comfort and feeling safe with people you meet. I also adored my father fit most of my life, but I see now how he abused my mother, had chauvinistic attitude toward her and woman in general. He appeared to be better parent by comparison with my mom, who was physically abusive, cruel and rejecting. Now I see possibility she was BPD and father was a charming covert narcissist. Both set me up for feeling attracted to narcissistic men. Best wishes.
Would you say that a borderline phases between primary and secondary psychopathy? Not so much within one day but maybe more like a bipolar shift where it could last weeks at a time?
Only if there is comorbidity (borderline and antisocial personality disorders).
Sam, I’m a 24 year old diagnosed Cluster B pd who is trying to improve my dangerous behaviours. Do you have any thoughts on Somatic Experiencing developed by Peter Levine... on the topic of Somaticisation. Thanks and wishes.
Barbara Nannucci NPD then after 2 years psychotherapy with a psychiatrist a psychologist diagnosed me BPD last July. I am 25 July 2020. it wasn’t sudden, it was a long slow painful waking up that both my parents were sexually and physically abusive, racist, misogynistic and homophobic and vocal and proud of this at home. I tried to kill myself at 15 but was not able to accept the reality, I was just diagnosed and treated for depression. As most abused children do o thought I was the problem. My parents were also upper middle class and fairly “glamorous” so I looked up to them. When I was finally old enough and had enough therapy (psychologists flat out told me gently I showed all the signs of abuse) I thought back to all the times I hated myself for getting raped or groomed by pedophile teachers and I realised i was a magnet for predators because I was raised by people that made me weak and ignore caring people and become trauma bonded with predators. Because they made me feel “love”. And “safe”. And “home”. And “‘me”.and you know what those feelings feel like in your body. So you follow them. But then professionals teach you those places shouldn’t feel that way. That the proper words for those feelings are fear. Grief. Envy. Hopelessness. Confusion.
You realise you are afraid and obsessed with “love”... except that wasn’t love it was ownership and neglect. You have never truly loved or been loved all those years when you were at the mercy of your parents’ actions like all children are. So you become a master at faking who you are to be who they need you to be so that they won’t be embarrassed or bothered by your existence.
This is so much to go through for a child. Day after day by two bullies who claim they know all the ways the world REALLY works. Then as A teenager when you get punished and shamed for talking about completely inappropriate things like “sluts” and porn. for . A young woman. But most of all... their carers. Their family, their boyfriends, girlfriends, sisters, brothers. You continuously hurt the ones you love because your uncontrollable ptsd responses hurt loved one who are our everything in more ways that just one.
In Australia psychiatrists at top unis are petitioning BPD to be recognised as the same CPTSD and are calling out the refusal to do so the rich and powerfuls’ agenda to oppress with accepting child abuse, incest and physical domestic violence is breaking so much more people that it is known by the public as.
Does a person who has endured Narcissitic abuse over many years go on to practice Narcisstic traits on others... and why would this be ? #curious
I can’t speak for everyone but here’s my jam.
When a narcissist abuses me (my father is one, my mother can occasionally act like one, and I am attracted to them), if it’s really bad then right after the episode/abuse I can occasionally act very much the same as the narc just was to me. I will do this to anyone brave enough to try and talk with me about why I’m so upset, because I will definitely be noticeably upset.
It also took me several years just to understand what “normal” interactions look like. It took many intelligent people telling me “this is not normal Christina” and my subsequently losing those people in various ways to realize that freaking out over small things, or putting people down, isn’t just something you do when someone irritates you or pisses you off. People don’t easily go from, and certainly don’t enjoy, freaking out and anger one moment to being just fine the next. Going from distress to everybody loves each other and it’s fine now. Or at least the abuser is done abusing now and so you’re supposed to be just fine now too, since the narc is fine now and they control the atmosphere (and want to control you). It’s over, get over it! You know? Maybe they even say they love you, but maybe not. It’s just over.
It seemed normal to me and I would seek out some people who were also that way, and then I’d attract others in my life who weren’t necessarily this way and who would end up eventually telling me “Just, No”.
At the time I’d be mad when they criticized me, but now i realize how much they’ve helped me by showing me a better way and telling me the truth about myself. I believe I am BPD but Narcissists can produce narcs and Borderlines. Or at least, the person who was abused may mirror the behavior, if not internalize everything and start being that way themselves.
What is the alternate UA-cam account with your corona content?
The videos are here: ua-cam.com/users/vakninmusings
(World in Conflict and Transition)
hello everyone. i am in the process of leaving a narcissist,but i am having trouble with the planning. to those who have left a narc typically how long would you say is a good time frame to set to leave. I am going to save up money to leave and look for an apartment as well as change banks, but I was wanting to do this in the next 6 MONTHS TOPS! is this a realistic time frame.
6 months is a good time frame. It helps to also be repulsive in the meantime. Don't wear deodorant. Become foul. Avoid personal hygiene. Look and act heidiious, aloof, stupid. Narcissists are repulsed by this behaviour. Have friends hang around as much as possible. This disempowers them. But do so gradually so it doesn't appear fake.
@@annelouridas8199 That's an interesting ploy!
I agree with what Anne suggested. Also look up the Gray Rock Method, that will push the narcissist to devalue and want to discard.
I went back and forth for 6 months. in hindsight I needed to leave and stay gone cuz over time it only got WORSE. but I realize everyone's situation is different. peace.
Keyanna It took me longer than 6 months to leave while I searched for my own home. But one aspect that was very helpful for me during that time was to step back from emotional involvement and simply observe the behavior of my partner. Doing this helped to solidify my decision in leaving and by the time I actually left I felt totally detached and there was no doubt in my mind that I’d never get sucked back. Good luck!
It is a shame there is rarely a reliable way to attain dependable worship.
Something is off here, it appears that some or most of your videos addressing covid19, (SARS2) virus are gone!!!!! Or am I missing something?
UA-cam is deleting my vids. The videos are here: ua-cam.com/users/vakninmusings
(World in Conflict and Transition)
Brilliant.