from chikashi kubota, a very prominent figure in the anime industry "A lot of people have this common misconception that the quality of the actual animation is based on the production’s budget. But in Japan, the TV production world, especially when it comes to anime, generally they all have the same budget. There are really rare situations where some have a little less and some tend to have a little bit more, but nothing that is very drastic. So, in reality, it is based on the staff."
People get this misconception from TV and Film where budget plays a MUCH bigger role. Since they don't understand the industry and they want to speak anyway this mistaken point is often brought up.
@@sdbzfan1that and schedule like most trashy isekai you see each season are made in like 6 month while something like Mushoku Tensei need like 2 years to be made for 2d animation time is still the most important after all, a lot of time the budget is used to extend the time which is why all the most expensive anime and movie are very long production like The boy and the Heron needing 7 years to be made and it cost 100 mil dollar compare to the average 24 eps anime being around 5-8 millions dollar
My favorite UA-camr, known as 'Probably Pretentious'' went over the fact that animation quality depends not so much on Budget, but on Talent X Time. How much talent do you have working with you, how many powerhouse animators do you have? And most importantly how much does the studio value each animators time.
I recommend you check out "mankoman' as he does extremely in depth episode analyses for jjk and other shows. Its like possibly pretentious, but with 1 hour long videos
@Lorelei_saphlor MankoMan should be a must watch channel for any anime fan, to be honest. Dude drops an hour long animation analysis and casually makes sakuga mad videos crediting all the animators.
Talent x Time still equates to money though, unless your argument is that the talents don't need money to survive (although.... Japanese animators are paid scrap anyway....)
Yeah, money doesn't matter if you don't have time. better talent can somewhat make up for that, but you can gather up the greatest animators on the planet, they aren't making an anime in a week. This is why some fan animations are amazing. because they worked on a single sequence for months. multiply that single sequence by like 50 to be equivalent to an entire season but with only a slight increase in time.
Joey was speaking at 7:44. While gear 5 would be cool and memorable for one piece stans, it reached so much more because of how stunning it sounded and looked. It made so many amv edits, new fans and people tune in just to see it and still talk about it positively. If it was just "eh" animation im sure it would have probably gotten the MHA treatment where even though the animation is pretty good, people arent satisfied it wasn't breathtaking for such an important moment.
The budget doesn't really matter as long as you work within your means to make the show work. My favourite comedy anime Cromartie high school is known for having next to nothing budget wise and the team took that in stride to make some of the best absurdist comedy. The fact that the show wasn't perfectly animated was actually a strength in their case. They even take jabs at the fact that the 'anime' is basically just a glorified slideshow.
Bro they said popular not niche ...popular anime need a good animation team and good animation team make a mid story and characters better case example Demon Slayer is absolutely mid in every way but one It's animation is absolutely amazing and takes mid nothing burger story to be one of the most popular anime In the world
@@chrishernandez8504 guess I just misinterpreted the question as "does it need a budget good and not "does it need a budget to appeal to the lowest common denominator"
OPM season 2 failed because it had to live up to season 1 animation and unfortunately it was such a let down that it made the hype die. People don't know what good animation is and most times think that high quality drawing is the same as high quality animation , best example is Mob 100 , the art style is not super detailed nor high quality but it had extremely high quality animation, yet people don't give it a chance just based on the art style even thought it is probably one of the best and most well written anime of all time.
Yes and No. Yes, Depends on the Genre, Shounen def. needs it because of the sakuga. Then No, for example the OG SHAFT and Shinbo the GOAT. They have a very limited bugdet, but because of that SHAFT and Shinbo made the trademark SHAFT artsyle we know today.
Animation is a form of interpretation. The art of bringing to life manga panels and directing scenes in general deserves more praise honestly. It’s important to value a creation process as a whole. And, in some cases, I can definitely enjoy an anime with a “mid” plot and good animation, more than a good plot anime with a mid delivery
If you can manage budget equally (writing, animation, music, and editing) so yes it's very important for example Hyouka or Violet Evergarden. That series don't need to be that freaking good animation but my God that series hit different
Budget doesn't matter at all for anime. The 2 major factors are talented animators and time for the animators to actually do their thing. As an example, demon slayer has some of the smallest budgets in the entire industry, because it does basicially all cgi in house and doesn't outsource it.
@@thecrimsonkid3574 No it's not. Strictly speaking in terms of animation, the staff is not paid based on how much time they put in on a particular cut, they get paid on a per-cut basis i.e a specified a amount of wage for a single cut. The only exception to this is a binding fees, where you get paid a certain amount more if the cut is overly complex. But that's it, if there's no binding fees, you get paid the same regardless of whether you animate a cut in a month or year. So no, time is not the budget when it comes to paying the staff. The anime industry might give the staff more time (if they're feeling generous I guess) if they want the show to look good, they're still not getting paid more just because they got more time to work on their scenes. And rent? Power? Do you think that studios just make 1 show and then stop? Like why won't they pay rent if the project gets finished early? Do they not have to pick up a different show now? And that's assuming that the company doesn't own the fookin building. Some of that last stuff you said is utterly non-sensical.
It’s a play off fate unlimited blade works and the fact there is barely any drop offs during ufotable fate shows. Where there is a budget spread with many anime (certain parts of episodes are rushed through with very small amounts of time/money put in and other parts are clearly well done with time and effort/money put in. But with ufotables fate series it doesn’t have that
If you it's really important to be above a bar. If only to avoid long and creepy freezes or obvious repeated shots. It can also be a selling point on its own like jjk
Budget matters for CGI. Time and talent matters most for 2D. Just watching a show for fun may lead to enjoyment levels that will make you ignore the proruction! Maybe try that!
@@user-lh5my4ws8j While that's half true... generally speaking budget doesn't matter much for freelance work. The more freelancers the more disorganised the design team becomes. Time solves this even with freelancers.
@@user-lh5my4ws8jfreelancers are important, but throwing out money to hire countless animators only leads to worse results and is a sign of an unhealthy production
Does it? CGI is more a time-heavy thing. Unless you count hardware and software, which should rather be considered an investment than spending for a singular production.
What a bull shit. It took seven years to make redline with a budget of 30+ million usd. Time and money both are equally important for quality animations.
animation quality isn't solely depending on budget though in the case of one punch man it was actually confirmed that the first season didn't have a huge budget.
3:13 After watching the first season of One Punch Man in like 2018, I heard that a new season was coming out soon so I was hyped. Fast forward a few years later and I still have yet to watch the second season, because of the lack of action compared to the first season. I've seen clips of the second season and I think the animation is fine but not as good as the first season.
The answer: depend on the genre. Shounen you are 100% need good animation today, except one piece, but that is an exception because it wasn't come out today, so people already invested in the series before the 2010's anime boom. Other genre you can get away with midling animation. The example is Apothecary diaries. Its a plus but its not necessary.
Ok... JujutsuKaisen would be still EPIC. I am still on the point where people talk about the Shibuya arcs epic fightscenes while I am: Yo! You watch the fights and IGNORE how the story shifts?! Season1 already got me hooked with its powersystem. a typical shounen have edgy powers. JJK established that curses ARE what it sounds. The sorcerers can actually kill other and even themselves with their power. Some shows have edgy twists like threatening characters deadly. JJK made us feel for Junpen and his mother. That offscreen kill was more impactful than many thing in the show. And while Shibuya did had good fights, it scratches the "Palace invasion of HxH itch". - showing that the power cieling can be stopped - even the demigod Gojo needs to make decision. For me the epic point of the arc was when in that single chapter Gojo just evaluated the fight scene: "oh... you think if you bring enough innocent hostage to the fight I will hold back? You can hold my beer and I promise I will mourn the casualties" and smeared Hanami over the damn wall while Jogo (the magma curse) realizes how much they miscalculated this whole setup...! - speaking of... we care about the villains too. Again, nice HxH inspiration (Phantom Troupe) And what sold me even more, will be season3. What happens AFTER Shibuya. The story unfolds. Many shounens have epic fights but everything reverts back to the status quo. In JJK the characters change... the world shifts too. Shibuya already had some 3rd party involvement: sorcerers who do not want Gojo to be free. And Season3 will build on this powershift too. Again... a typical shounen story will grab No2 Hero who does the same as No1, but a bit worse. Akutami doesn't afraid to make setbacks or complete changes. (SPOILER: Im 100% sure people will talk about the KillBill scene, and wont talk much about the impact of it... :( It will be a Mission failed successfully setup. Im sure they will mention the emotional impact, but wonder how much attention will be given to the worldbuilding and political aspect of it?)
Animation quality is extremely important in an action series, but it can keep a mid story afloat in a less action oriented series. But direction and story truly drive the quality of a series more than anything for me, the animation of one piece has never bothered me, but the anime pacing is pretty poor in several arcs, so i stick to the manga and watch my favorite arcs
It's the single most important factor. It's the only way a show gets made at all. How well a production team uses its budget is the second most important.
when comparing the quality of one anime to another, it doesn't matter, a majority of them have the same budget, strong planning and talent is what's most important. KyoAni produces some of the highest quality shows out there, yet Erukin Kawabata himself has said that KyoAni shows cost less than the average anime.
The budget for an anime is only the wages of the animators. So more budget and time (those two things can be separated) mean more time to do great animation and possibly have the most talented animators/directors/musicians out there.
13:51 Let's put it in similar perspective: People who aren't Marvel or DC fans can still watch the latest movies and not care about any of the characters. It's the same thing with a popular anime that gets a movie; some people just want to see action without any knowledge of the story.
Personally I don't think a low budget always matters IF the studio is smart about how they make up for it. There are some older shows that you can tell definitely didn't have a huge budget but have still aged decently enough because of the style that was used to plug the shortfall, also the rest of the actual "substance" is important. Like there are some shows that are GORGEOUS to look at but they have nothing beyond that that you're going to remember.
One of my favorite animes last season was Under Ninja and it had a pretty low quality animation , even had the awful 3d models in it - but I still was more exited to see these episodes each week much more than JJK (sorry JJK fans😅 ) cause of the crazy and fun story.
As with most things, you can't have a direct 100% correlation between two things. Terrible animation of Blue Lock and Classroom of the elite did not hinder it's performance for their respective audiences, while from the recent example of Metallic Rouge or Bucchigiri, that have a much better animation but lack in other aspects. The budget and quality of the product are definitely affect the success of the title, but other aspects like PR, story, sound design, voice acting, etc. are as important.
I can think of a few shows that animations affected how people "enjoyed" it. Chainsawman had decent if outthere animation yet it had a mixed reception. AOT had great animation but the artstyle is vastly different from the manga MHA season 5-6 had decent animation but was publicly panned for not amping up there animation at certain fights
I have to say people always underappreciate the talent of the JJK author, like people only say that JJK is always just cool fights, like duh it's a BATTLE shōnen, fighting is its PRIMARY thing; it's like if people watched Nana and said it's only a "romance drama" like huh?? JJK has the best choreographed fights in manga idc, and it's especially hard since it's in manga form. Let's be objective and ignore the story, JJK has better fights than manga like One Piece, Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man, etc. The only other manga that can compete is Sakamoto Days, which will hopefully get an anime adaptation someday. JJK has some of the coolest and most creative battles that im very excited to see in the 3rd season. Will it benefit from the anime? yes! but is Mappa carrying? no!
I agree, but this is about the anime specifically. sadly, outside of Japan most people just watch the anime and will never touch the manga. that said: mappa has expanded on smaller fight scenes to make them more interesting and dynamic and their storyboarding was top notch to the point where it carried the scenes when other factors were lacking due to the production issues.
I did not enjoy the fight scenes in the manga. Do they have a lot unique ideas? Yes, but the way these ideas are introduced is very boring. Instead of showing us how these abilities work in a cool way the author always uses a long textbox from the narrator which breaks the flow of the fight and is just lazy.
I think the best way answer this question is to ask yourself if the animation has either aged well or will it age well. There are some popular anime like One Piece and Bleach were I personally has aged well from the their earlier seasons. In my opinion, most BL anime from like the 90s and 2000s hasn't aged well based on the animation feeling stiff.
we should all just agree to imagine that when someone mentions the budget of the anime they are talking about the budget of resources, time, staff, and not just money to prevent anyone from getting annoyed
The budget does matter, but not because what people think. It mattet because the higher the budget the better the schedule (that doesn't mean less budget means worse schedule). These companies are putting money that they need bring back profit. As soon as possible. So the more money there is, the less these companies are dependent on the budget they invested. For an example, if your investor throws millions of dollars as if it's nothing, then they won't demand their profit back as soon as possible. But if the companies are dependent on the profit of their investment then they won't be able to wait too much time without a profit. Again, A good schedule can exist without insane budget, but it require a lot work on the producers and trust in the staff by the production companies.
I feel like in the early 2000s animation quality and story quality was a good balance but around 2014 and 15 animation quality jumped so much in the fact that there isn’t as many quality stories out there right now that are matching up to the previous big three is the main reason why most animes rely on animation to be successful. Because when you think about it, Naruto had great animation when it first came out and was even better than bleach and one piece but that wasn’t the selling point for it it was the story
I liked second season of OPM and didn't even notice "bad animation" that everyone was talking about. I was more thinking along the lines of Berserk 2016. While animation quality is not super important, it needs to at least be passable.
Thing about One Punch Man and the animation is that it’s more than just raw animation quality. A lot of what worked in the first season had to do with story boarding, pacing, and comedic timing. It wasn’t just the animation that got worse when the studio switched, all those other things saw at least some drop.
2:09 I've dropped plenty of anime shows that had beautiful or decent animation with a pretty art style, because of the plot being lost early on in the show for me. Personally, if the story either doesn't make sense or becomes boring then I'm dropping the anime.
I know this is gonna sound weird but what got me into Bleach & FMA, was the Netflix live adaption. At that time I thought the live Adaption was actually quite good, little did I know. I can't disregard the fact, that it was the Netflix adaptation that got me to watch it.
bad animation will almost always DEFINITELY kill an anime but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the end all be all of its success. it's just a big component, that's all.
Difference between jjk and others is even if the animation was bad the manga is still insane and a lot of people who read the manga know that we would still fan over it because of the amazing writing in the manga not just the animation
3:24 Slight disagree. Yes one punch man changed studio so the animation changed but that wasn't the only thing that changed. The storyline definitely changed. I felt more engagement with Saitama and learning about the world meanwhile S2 was a build up for S3 by introducing Garou.
Budget only gives you time and that time will be decided by the producers so even if you had a massive budget, if the schedule is tight, the result won't be as good. This conception of budgets being high for great shows is ridiculous, budget only means wages and the weight of those wages is decided by time spent on the production. If producing an anime takes 5 years, then it's 5 years of wages and a lot more money than if say, JJK was made in 2 years, but the result won't necessarily be better.
Not really. It's not the budget that gives you time, it's who's putting in the budget that does. Anime usually runs on the production committee system, and the biggest investor in the committee gets the biggest say in the staff, scheduling etc. So if you're a studio that's not investing much on your properties, good luck trying to get a good schedule for your animators. On the contrary, if a studio ranks high in the production committee (because of greater investment), it will be able to control the schedule much more easily, since they're the ones that'll be financially impacted the most by any decision taken. And regarding your 2nd point, anime doesn't pay on a time-basis, it pays on a per cut basis. Meaning it doesn't matter if you took 2 months to make a particular cut or 2 years, you'd most likely be paid the same, unless the cut you're being paid for is overly complex in which case it will come with an additional binding fees, which is an exception.
it's crazy that they literally do not, even a single time, mention the word "budget" in this video, and yet people in the comment section do not realize that the title is literal clikbait, and they answer truthfully the question. Guys stop commenting, watch the video jesus christ
Pretty sure the title is also a reference to that one time Connor almost got cancelled for calling Demon Slayer's animation awesome by talking about the budget.
@@hellking711 yeah my point was that not all shows rely on animation quality to be good. successful or not the show has over 130 episodes and is currently airing a 5th season
Take a look at Kingdom, everyone knows its a masterpiece but no one talks about it because who wants to go through the 80 eps from the horrendous season 1 and 2 just so it gets watchable after that
Budget does matter, specifically to give the studio and Animators time to animate a show properly. The more Budget you have the more time the animators have to work on the show. “The way of the House Husband” could have been more popular. If the show was properly animated and not done as an animatic. But at the same time a really good story can hold up a show with mid quality animation. I love the how but wish the show was animated. Dragon Ball super suffered the same problem. The quality is in the films and not the main tv series. Also anime animators are absolutely not paid enough for what they produce in general. Good animation isn’t a guarantee that a show will be successful if the story isn’t interesting or watchable.
this means nothing in the anime industry where most shows have the same budget, the studios with the healthiest productions in the industry (KyoAni, Ufotable) spend less on their projects than the average anime
didnt the onechan that isekai herself for following his brother had god tier animation for some reason but still almost no one talked more about it after she iseaki herself in the first ep xD I agree "good animation" has a key point in the "success" in the anime industry but bro.... it does make sense... for some reason it is call "ANIME"
my question is, if budget matters, then why do episodes directed by some of the most talented directors like Megumi Ishitani, Hiroyuki Yamashita, and Hakuyu go usually look the best? I believe that talent is the most important factor
I mean that's part of it, but the good animation defintely helps, although like Demon Slayer people are into it for the characters and story which is why the manga are very popular.
It's not so much raw budget as how the budget is used Big budget doesn't matter if the priority is different from expectation. Look at Gundam SEED production breakdown and how much money is used for music licensing
Define "success." JJK Season 2 was great, but I hesitate to call it a success because the dirty laundry aired during it's production was such a PR nightmare that a lot of people won't be able to think of it without remembering that shit.
Complex Topic. Obviously better animation is better. And very marketable. It's way easier to show great animation without context, then trying to explain to someone why a story is good without them having seen it. So the reach the highest levels were everyone watches the anime, you need peak animation (for the time). But there are still many Anime with normal Animation that do well in their genre and with their target audience. Still succesfull but no mega hit. For example SAO season 1 really didn't have stand out animation. It was good, but not standing out. And it was a mega hit. Naruto, One Piece and Bleach also didn't have that great of animation. They couldn't with the episode counts. Add into the mix that almost all animes are adaptations of great manga stories. So if all stories are already good, better animation stands out. And a more popular manga is more likely to receive better animation. So yeah...
It does matter, but there are exceptions. A good example is ReZero Episode 18 (From Zero). It's just 2 people talking for 20 minutes and is regarded as the best ReZero episode, it's a BANGER. But overall, yeah, animation is too important...
That example doesn't work because 1. It's adapting a light novel chapter with heavy dialogue so the episode wouldn't have gone any other way. And 2. If every episode was like that, the general community would have big disputes with the show and it wouldn't have done as well, that show only succeeded because it had a bit of everything
I might be biased, but I think it might be that better shows get better animation. I primarily follow jjk and demon slayer through the manga, and I love both of them. I prefer the disastrous life of saiki k to one punch man season one, and I don’t think there’s that big of a difference in joke quality. I think that animation only really matters when a show is already great. Though this, again might be biased.
Yes, oh god yes, cheap non existent animation is a dealbreaker for me, long panning shots, jawlines not moving, badly drawn characters. Yes I consider 95% of all anime garbage because of it. That's because there's so much shovelware flooding the market.
It's annoying to me when they get annoyed by the fact that Frieren is still number one on MAL. I'ts there because it deserves it. This is not another case of oshi no ko. This is the real deal
Naaah, my reason is kyousosigiga and uchoten kazoku did not get popular despite its amazing animation. Anime like date a life get insanely popular instead.
Adult Swim proved that a budget doesn't make or break a show, but what does is scope. Being overly ambitious with the resources you have will lead to disaster.
I wouldn't mind if everything is animated average. But if season 1 is great and season 2 is just stills with barely animated dialogues it really makes you think why do you watch anime and not manga or read ranobe
Animators cant pop off more when a show gets popular because the majority of the time the show is either finished being animated or is completing its animation as it is airing. One Piece is different because of how long that show is, but big crazy spectacle animation can take weeks if not months of animation to work on.
In today's day I age that is 💯 correct! That goes for movies and TV shows just look at the last season of GOT and the writing disaster that was! and there are people who unironically still think it was a good last season because it was pretty "demon slayer" is one of the most overrated animes In the world and it's all do to its animation because the story and characters are mid at best ! we also had amazing anime come out that same year that didn't get the recognition it deserves like Vinland Saga
Here’s what I said in the original Podcast: I completely disagree that Anime's success is based of animation. The reason Demon Slayer and JJK are popular are because they are battle series, and have wide appeal. OPM was definitely popularity decreased with new season, however that is a lower quality sequel is more the reason why it was less popular. Plenty of anime have mediocre animation and get popular, and that is almost certainty because of the content of a series rather that the presentation. And yes that definitely includes Demon Slayer, as that is probably on of the most widely appealing modern anime with it's themes and story. There's a reason why that it had high manga sales despite manga not being animated. Also Bleach TYBW is definitely not popular because of animation, what kinda take is that? Also Steins;Gate looks good, not only for it's time and it's only like 10 years old. I mean the direction beats most anime today imo. Hunter x Hunter is pretty average animation, with some fights looking amazing like Gon vs Hisoka and Meruem vs Netero, but that's really it. Also I would say that FMAB is kinda the same, except that there is more amazing fights in FMAB than Hunter x Hunter.
This is a good and reasonable take in my opinion. Most of the big 3 animation were mainly mid tier until like certain fights like u mention but I swear joey has something in for jjk 😂😂
As long as the animators, editors and other staff are paid well and are good at their job. But everyone knows how terrible Japan is for work place culture.
Honestly I never even noticed the choppy bits until they were pointed out because everything else is just so stupid in the best way that my attention doesn't care
from chikashi kubota, a very prominent figure in the anime industry "A lot of people have this common misconception that the quality of the actual animation is based on the production’s budget. But in Japan, the TV production world, especially when it comes to anime, generally they all have the same budget. There are really rare situations where some have a little less and some tend to have a little bit more, but nothing that is very drastic. So, in reality, it is based on the staff."
People get this misconception from TV and Film where budget plays a MUCH bigger role. Since they don't understand the industry and they want to speak anyway this mistaken point is often brought up.
Which means all the bad looking anime were bad because the staff knew it was gonna be shit
@@sdbzfan1that and schedule like most trashy isekai you see each season are made in like 6 month while something like Mushoku Tensei need like 2 years to be made
for 2d animation time is still the most important after all, a lot of time the budget is used to extend the time which is why all the most expensive anime and movie are very long production like The boy and the Heron needing 7 years to be made and it cost 100 mil dollar compare to the average 24 eps anime being around 5-8 millions dollar
@@hikarihakai1285 they have trashy schedule because they already know it's finna be shit
@@toonyandfriends1915 not really that is not something the animator or staff decide it is usually the higher up like in Mappa situation but even worse
My favorite UA-camr, known as 'Probably Pretentious'' went over the fact that animation quality depends not so much on Budget, but on Talent X Time.
How much talent do you have working with you, how many powerhouse animators do you have? And most importantly how much does the studio value each animators time.
I recommend you check out "mankoman' as he does extremely in depth episode analyses for jjk and other shows. Its like possibly pretentious, but with 1 hour long videos
@Lorelei_saphlor MankoMan should be a must watch channel for any anime fan, to be honest. Dude drops an hour long animation analysis and casually makes sakuga mad videos crediting all the animators.
Talent x Time still equates to money though, unless your argument is that the talents don't need money to survive (although.... Japanese animators are paid scrap anyway....)
Yeah, money doesn't matter if you don't have time. better talent can somewhat make up for that, but you can gather up the greatest animators on the planet, they aren't making an anime in a week.
This is why some fan animations are amazing. because they worked on a single sequence for months. multiply that single sequence by like 50 to be equivalent to an entire season but with only a slight increase in time.
Joey was speaking at 7:44. While gear 5 would be cool and memorable for one piece stans, it reached so much more because of how stunning it sounded and looked. It made so many amv edits, new fans and people tune in just to see it and still talk about it positively. If it was just "eh" animation im sure it would have probably gotten the MHA treatment where even though the animation is pretty good, people arent satisfied it wasn't breathtaking for such an important moment.
The budget doesn't really matter as long as you work within your means to make the show work. My favourite comedy anime Cromartie high school is known for having next to nothing budget wise and the team took that in stride to make some of the best absurdist comedy. The fact that the show wasn't perfectly animated was actually a strength in their case. They even take jabs at the fact that the 'anime' is basically just a glorified slideshow.
Bro they said popular not niche ...popular anime need a good animation team and good animation team make a mid story and characters better case example Demon Slayer is absolutely mid in every way but one
It's animation is absolutely amazing and takes mid nothing burger story to be one of the most popular anime In the world
@@chrishernandez8504 guess I just misinterpreted the question as "does it need a budget good and not "does it need a budget to appeal to the lowest common denominator"
@@colossalweebyou think you aren't the lowest common denominator 🤦
This is such a fun example of the title not matching the content, and people mostly responding to the title
OPM season 2 failed because it had to live up to season 1 animation and unfortunately it was such a let down that it made the hype die.
People don't know what good animation is and most times think that high quality drawing is the same as high quality animation , best example is Mob 100 , the art style is not super detailed nor high quality but it had extremely high quality animation, yet people don't give it a chance just based on the art style even thought it is probably one of the best and most well written anime of all time.
Yes and No.
Yes, Depends on the Genre, Shounen def. needs it because of the sakuga.
Then No, for example the OG SHAFT and Shinbo the GOAT.
They have a very limited bugdet, but because of that SHAFT and Shinbo made the trademark SHAFT artsyle we know today.
sakuga comes from ambitious animators that are willing to go over the top just to create spectacles so NO
I think good animation is more important for action focused series than other genres.
I think good animation works better in certain moments big moments. For example the way black clover does it.
Animation is a form of interpretation. The art of bringing to life manga panels and directing scenes in general deserves more praise honestly. It’s important to value a creation process as a whole. And, in some cases, I can definitely enjoy an anime with a “mid” plot and good animation, more than a good plot anime with a mid delivery
If you can manage budget equally (writing, animation, music, and editing) so yes it's very important for example Hyouka or Violet Evergarden. That series don't need to be that freaking good animation but my God that series hit different
Budget doesn't matter at all for anime. The 2 major factors are talented animators and time for the animators to actually do their thing. As an example, demon slayer has some of the smallest budgets in the entire industry, because it does basicially all cgi in house and doesn't outsource it.
@@manvelmsurian9712 Time is the budget tho.
@@thomasffrench3639 bruh wut??
@@amoh2513Time is literally the budget. The longer you’re in production, the longer you have to pay staff/fees/rent/power lmao
@@thecrimsonkid3574 No it's not. Strictly speaking in terms of animation, the staff is not paid based on how much time they put in on a particular cut, they get paid on a per-cut basis i.e a specified a amount of wage for a single cut. The only exception to this is a binding fees, where you get paid a certain amount more if the cut is overly complex. But that's it, if there's no binding fees, you get paid the same regardless of whether you animate a cut in a month or year. So no, time is not the budget when it comes to paying the staff. The anime industry might give the staff more time (if they're feeling generous I guess) if they want the show to look good, they're still not getting paid more just because they got more time to work on their scenes.
And rent? Power? Do you think that studios just make 1 show and then stop? Like why won't they pay rent if the project gets finished early? Do they not have to pick up a different show now? And that's assuming that the company doesn't own the fookin building. Some of that last stuff you said is utterly non-sensical.
No it doesn't! I don't know how the meme "Unlimited Budget Works" was even born.
Ion know if this is sarcasm
But if you seen the fate series, you would get it 😂
It’s a play off fate unlimited blade works and the fact there is barely any drop offs during ufotable fate shows.
Where there is a budget spread with many anime (certain parts of episodes are rushed through with very small amounts of time/money put in and other parts are clearly well done with time and effort/money put in.
But with ufotables fate series it doesn’t have that
If you it's really important to be above a bar. If only to avoid long and creepy freezes or obvious repeated shots. It can also be a selling point on its own like jjk
Budget matters for CGI. Time and talent matters most for 2D. Just watching a show for fun may lead to enjoyment levels that will make you ignore the proruction! Maybe try that!
More budget mean more freelancers are working on 2D animation. Currently, the entire anime industry relies heavily on freelancers and outsourcing."
@@user-lh5my4ws8j While that's half true... generally speaking budget doesn't matter much for freelance work. The more freelancers the more disorganised the design team becomes. Time solves this even with freelancers.
@@user-lh5my4ws8jfreelancers are important, but throwing out money to hire countless animators only leads to worse results and is a sign of an unhealthy production
Does it? CGI is more a time-heavy thing. Unless you count hardware and software, which should rather be considered an investment than spending for a singular production.
What a bull shit. It took seven years to make redline with a budget of 30+ million usd. Time and money both are equally important for quality animations.
animation quality isn't solely depending on budget though in the case of one punch man it was actually confirmed that the first season didn't have a huge budget.
3:13 After watching the first season of One Punch Man in like 2018, I heard that a new season was coming out soon so I was hyped. Fast forward a few years later and I still have yet to watch the second season, because of the lack of action compared to the first season. I've seen clips of the second season and I think the animation is fine but not as good as the first season.
The answer: depend on the genre. Shounen you are 100% need good animation today, except one piece, but that is an exception because it wasn't come out today, so people already invested in the series before the 2010's anime boom. Other genre you can get away with midling animation. The example is Apothecary diaries. Its a plus but its not necessary.
Ok... JujutsuKaisen would be still EPIC.
I am still on the point where people talk about the Shibuya arcs epic fightscenes while I am:
Yo! You watch the fights and IGNORE how the story shifts?!
Season1 already got me hooked with its powersystem.
a typical shounen have edgy powers. JJK established that curses ARE what it sounds. The sorcerers can actually kill other and even themselves with their power.
Some shows have edgy twists like threatening characters deadly. JJK made us feel for Junpen and his mother. That offscreen kill was more impactful than many thing in the show.
And while Shibuya did had good fights, it scratches the "Palace invasion of HxH itch".
- showing that the power cieling can be stopped
- even the demigod Gojo needs to make decision. For me the epic point of the arc was when in that single chapter Gojo just evaluated the fight scene:
"oh... you think if you bring enough innocent hostage to the fight I will hold back? You can hold my beer and I promise I will mourn the casualties" and smeared Hanami over the damn wall while Jogo (the magma curse) realizes how much they miscalculated this whole setup...!
- speaking of... we care about the villains too. Again, nice HxH inspiration (Phantom Troupe)
And what sold me even more, will be season3. What happens AFTER Shibuya.
The story unfolds. Many shounens have epic fights but everything reverts back to the status quo. In JJK the characters change... the world shifts too. Shibuya already had some 3rd party involvement: sorcerers who do not want Gojo to be free. And Season3 will build on this powershift too.
Again... a typical shounen story will grab No2 Hero who does the same as No1, but a bit worse. Akutami doesn't afraid to make setbacks or complete changes.
(SPOILER: Im 100% sure people will talk about the KillBill scene, and wont talk much about the impact of it... :(
It will be a Mission failed successfully setup. Im sure they will mention the emotional impact, but wonder how much attention will be given to the worldbuilding and political aspect of it?)
Nah without budget its mid
Animation quality is extremely important in an action series, but it can keep a mid story afloat in a less action oriented series.
But direction and story truly drive the quality of a series more than anything for me, the animation of one piece has never bothered me, but the anime pacing is pretty poor in several arcs, so i stick to the manga and watch my favorite arcs
It's the single most important factor. It's the only way a show gets made at all. How well a production team uses its budget is the second most important.
No. The correct order is production schedule > production team > budget
bro thinks he cooked with this one LMAO
(he did not)
when comparing the quality of one anime to another, it doesn't matter, a majority of them have the same budget, strong planning and talent is what's most important. KyoAni produces some of the highest quality shows out there, yet Erukin Kawabata himself has said that KyoAni shows cost less than the average anime.
You got it backward
1. Budget distribution
2. Raw budget
3. THE REST
The budget for an anime is only the wages of the animators. So more budget and time (those two things can be separated) mean more time to do great animation and possibly have the most talented animators/directors/musicians out there.
13:51 Let's put it in similar perspective: People who aren't Marvel or DC fans can still watch the latest movies and not care about any of the characters. It's the same thing with a popular anime that gets a movie; some people just want to see action without any knowledge of the story.
Personally I don't think a low budget always matters IF the studio is smart about how they make up for it.
There are some older shows that you can tell definitely didn't have a huge budget but have still aged decently enough because of the style that was used to plug the shortfall, also the rest of the actual "substance" is important.
Like there are some shows that are GORGEOUS to look at but they have nothing beyond that that you're going to remember.
One of my favorite animes last season was Under Ninja and it had a pretty low quality animation , even had the awful 3d models in it - but I still was more exited to see these episodes each week much more than JJK (sorry JJK fans😅 ) cause of the crazy and fun story.
I also more excited to see Apothecary Diary every week
I think a good example of an anime that did well despite not having S-tier animation is Tokyo Revengers.
As with most things, you can't have a direct 100% correlation between two things. Terrible animation of Blue Lock and Classroom of the elite did not hinder it's performance for their respective audiences, while from the recent example of Metallic Rouge or Bucchigiri, that have a much better animation but lack in other aspects. The budget and quality of the product are definitely affect the success of the title, but other aspects like PR, story, sound design, voice acting, etc. are as important.
I can think of a few shows that animations affected how people "enjoyed" it.
Chainsawman had decent if outthere animation yet it had a mixed reception.
AOT had great animation but the artstyle is vastly different from the manga
MHA season 5-6 had decent animation but was publicly panned for not amping up there animation at certain fights
I have to say people always underappreciate the talent of the JJK author, like people only say that JJK is always just cool fights, like duh it's a BATTLE shōnen, fighting is its PRIMARY thing; it's like if people watched Nana and said it's only a "romance drama" like huh?? JJK has the best choreographed fights in manga idc, and it's especially hard since it's in manga form. Let's be objective and ignore the story, JJK has better fights than manga like One Piece, Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man, etc. The only other manga that can compete is Sakamoto Days, which will hopefully get an anime adaptation someday. JJK has some of the coolest and most creative battles that im very excited to see in the 3rd season. Will it benefit from the anime? yes! but is Mappa carrying? no!
Is MAPPA carrying?
Yes!!! really hard actually
@@lesterantenor1026 cope
I agree, but this is about the anime specifically. sadly, outside of Japan most people just watch the anime and will never touch the manga.
that said: mappa has expanded on smaller fight scenes to make them more interesting and dynamic and their storyboarding was top notch to the point where it carried the scenes when other factors were lacking due to the production issues.
Bro said " Let's ignore the story " so it means that the story is MID and everything like animation matters
I did not enjoy the fight scenes in the manga. Do they have a lot unique ideas? Yes, but the way these ideas are introduced is very boring. Instead of showing us how these abilities work in a cool way the author always uses a long textbox from the narrator which breaks the flow of the fight and is just lazy.
I think the best way answer this question is to ask yourself if the animation has either aged well or will it age well. There are some popular anime like One Piece and Bleach were I personally has aged well from the their earlier seasons. In my opinion, most BL anime from like the 90s and 2000s hasn't aged well based on the animation feeling stiff.
we should all just agree to imagine that when someone mentions the budget of the anime they are talking about the budget of resources, time, staff, and not just money to prevent anyone from getting annoyed
The budget does matter, but not because what people think. It mattet because the higher the budget the better the schedule (that doesn't mean less budget means worse schedule). These companies are putting money that they need bring back profit. As soon as possible. So the more money there is, the less these companies are dependent on the budget they invested. For an example, if your investor throws millions of dollars as if it's nothing, then they won't demand their profit back as soon as possible. But if the companies are dependent on the profit of their investment then they won't be able to wait too much time without a profit. Again, A good schedule can exist without insane budget, but it require a lot work on the producers and trust in the staff by the production companies.
Two big examples are Kingdom and Golden Kamuy. Both series would be way more popular if they had better animation. Especially their first seasons
That's true I know alot of people passed on the Golden Kamuy anime because of that CG bear.
I feel like in the early 2000s animation quality and story quality was a good balance but around 2014 and 15 animation quality jumped so much in the fact that there isn’t as many quality stories out there right now that are matching up to the previous big three is the main reason why most animes rely on animation to be successful. Because when you think about it, Naruto had great animation when it first came out and was even better than bleach and one piece but that wasn’t the selling point for it it was the story
I liked second season of OPM and didn't even notice "bad animation" that everyone was talking about. I was more thinking along the lines of Berserk 2016. While animation quality is not super important, it needs to at least be passable.
Thing about One Punch Man and the animation is that it’s more than just raw animation quality. A lot of what worked in the first season had to do with story boarding, pacing, and comedic timing. It wasn’t just the animation that got worse when the studio switched, all those other things saw at least some drop.
That’s why a prefer to use production values as an umbrella term for all the different technical skills that contribute to quality.
2:09 I've dropped plenty of anime shows that had beautiful or decent animation with a pretty art style, because of the plot being lost early on in the show for me. Personally, if the story either doesn't make sense or becomes boring then I'm dropping the anime.
I know this is gonna sound weird but what got me into Bleach & FMA, was the Netflix live adaption. At that time I thought the live Adaption was actually quite good, little did I know.
I can't disregard the fact, that it was the Netflix adaptation that got me to watch it.
bad animation will almost always DEFINITELY kill an anime but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the end all be all of its success. it's just a big component, that's all.
This is legit a deep mindset to discuss
Budget always matters when it comes to making anything
That title baited everyone real bad
Ikr? The topic was kinda different too 😅
The Fire Hunter is a good counterpoint for animation quality mattering
Budget also goes to marketing and distribution which honestly can make or break a show more than the animation itself
Zero percent, one person has produced better than entire professional companies and groups of talented artists. It’s heart and soul.
Difference between jjk and others is even if the animation was bad the manga is still insane and a lot of people who read the manga know that we would still fan over it because of the amazing writing in the manga not just the animation
Overlord, trapped in a dating sim, villains routes all lead to doom, are just three that are popular and successful without great animation.
3:24 Slight disagree. Yes one punch man changed studio so the animation changed but that wasn't the only thing that changed.
The storyline definitely changed. I felt more engagement with Saitama and learning about the world meanwhile S2 was a build up for S3 by introducing Garou.
Budget only gives you time and that time will be decided by the producers so even if you had a massive budget, if the schedule is tight, the result won't be as good. This conception of budgets being high for great shows is ridiculous, budget only means wages and the weight of those wages is decided by time spent on the production.
If producing an anime takes 5 years, then it's 5 years of wages and a lot more money than if say, JJK was made in 2 years, but the result won't necessarily be better.
Not really. It's not the budget that gives you time, it's who's putting in the budget that does. Anime usually runs on the production committee system, and the biggest investor in the committee gets the biggest say in the staff, scheduling etc. So if you're a studio that's not investing much on your properties, good luck trying to get a good schedule for your animators. On the contrary, if a studio ranks high in the production committee (because of greater investment), it will be able to control the schedule much more easily, since they're the ones that'll be financially impacted the most by any decision taken.
And regarding your 2nd point, anime doesn't pay on a time-basis, it pays on a per cut basis. Meaning it doesn't matter if you took 2 months to make a particular cut or 2 years, you'd most likely be paid the same, unless the cut you're being paid for is overly complex in which case it will come with an additional binding fees, which is an exception.
Budget is not the number 1 thing that’s going to determine the animation quality behind it. But it probably does help if there more then not
it's crazy that they literally do not, even a single time, mention the word "budget" in this video, and yet people in the comment section do not realize that the title is literal clikbait, and they answer truthfully the question.
Guys stop commenting, watch the video jesus christ
No
@@TheXander2004 kinda based ngl
Pretty sure the title is also a reference to that one time Connor almost got cancelled for calling Demon Slayer's animation awesome by talking about the budget.
@@NateLeonhart i thought the exact same too lmao but i don't know how likely that is
kingdom has some of the worst animation initially but is easily one o f the best shows I've seen.
Its "anime" is not successful for that
@@hellking711 yeah my point was that not all shows rely on animation quality to be good. successful or not the show has over 130 episodes and is currently airing a 5th season
Take a look at Kingdom, everyone knows its a masterpiece but no one talks about it because who wants to go through the 80 eps from the horrendous season 1 and 2 just so it gets watchable after that
Budget does matter, specifically to give the studio and Animators time to animate a show properly. The more Budget you have the more time the animators have to work on the show. “The way of the House Husband” could have been more popular. If the show was properly animated and not done as an animatic. But at the same time a really good story can hold up a show with mid quality animation. I love the how but wish the show was animated. Dragon Ball super suffered the same problem. The quality is in the films and not the main tv series. Also anime animators are absolutely not paid enough for what they produce in general. Good animation isn’t a guarantee that a show will be successful if the story isn’t interesting or watchable.
this means nothing in the anime industry where most shows have the same budget, the studios with the healthiest productions in the industry (KyoAni, Ufotable) spend less on their projects than the average anime
oh my god when they talking about jjk it's trigger me so bad
I think good animation creates a higher ceiling for anime
didnt the onechan that isekai herself for following his brother had god tier animation for some reason but still almost no one talked more about it after she iseaki herself in the first ep xD
I agree "good animation" has a key point in the "success" in the anime industry but bro.... it does make sense... for some reason it is call "ANIME"
A good story with low budget could be good but a good story with high budget can make it great!
I know the success of an anime relates to the quality of the animation.
I dropped 7 deadly sins because it looked like shit.
I think Kingdom would have a much larger following if it had better animation earlier in its run.
chinese anime isnt popular
my question is, if budget matters, then why do episodes directed by some of the most talented directors like Megumi Ishitani, Hiroyuki Yamashita, and Hakuyu go usually look the best? I believe that talent is the most important factor
the Idea is, you pay more to get these talented directors. More budget is just a short hand for more effort, time and talent.
You dont lol, 90% of the time its done through connections, in fact Ishitani is in house staff so she’s a LESS expensive option for Toei
the answer to your question is that you are right and talent is much more important than budget
There are well animated shows that failed to deliver, and there are poorly animated shows who are amongst the top anime.
Joey back on the jujutsu kaisen hate train...
Just look at how popular the manga is to know that the animation doesn't make the show that popular
I mean that's part of it, but the good animation defintely helps, although like Demon Slayer people are into it for the characters and story which is why the manga are very popular.
@@thomasffrench3639 yeah exactly that was my point.. Joey was basically saying that both had a terrible story and just the animation was good
It's not so much raw budget as how the budget is used
Big budget doesn't matter if the priority is different from expectation. Look at Gundam SEED production breakdown and how much money is used for music licensing
Define "success." JJK Season 2 was great, but I hesitate to call it a success because the dirty laundry aired during it's production was such a PR nightmare that a lot of people won't be able to think of it without remembering that shit.
Complex Topic.
Obviously better animation is better. And very marketable. It's way easier to show great animation without context, then trying to explain to someone why a story is good without them having seen it.
So the reach the highest levels were everyone watches the anime, you need peak animation (for the time).
But there are still many Anime with normal Animation that do well in their genre and with their target audience. Still succesfull but no mega hit.
For example SAO season 1 really didn't have stand out animation. It was good, but not standing out. And it was a mega hit.
Naruto, One Piece and Bleach also didn't have that great of animation. They couldn't with the episode counts.
Add into the mix that almost all animes are adaptations of great manga stories. So if all stories are already good, better animation stands out.
And a more popular manga is more likely to receive better animation.
So yeah...
The best example I can think of for average animation but did really well is Re:zero season 2
Never judge a book by its cover.
It is not an exaggeration to say Ufotable animating Fate/Zero helped pull Type Moon into the mainstream
It does matter, but there are exceptions.
A good example is ReZero Episode 18 (From Zero).
It's just 2 people talking for 20 minutes and is regarded as the best ReZero episode, it's a BANGER.
But overall, yeah, animation is too important...
That example doesn't work because 1. It's adapting a light novel chapter with heavy dialogue so the episode wouldn't have gone any other way. And 2. If every episode was like that, the general community would have big disputes with the show and it wouldn't have done as well, that show only succeeded because it had a bit of everything
Mob pyscho 100 has ok success
I might be biased, but I think it might be that better shows get better animation. I primarily follow jjk and demon slayer through the manga, and I love both of them. I prefer the disastrous life of saiki k to one punch man season one, and I don’t think there’s that big of a difference in joke quality. I think that animation only really matters when a show is already great. Though this, again might be biased.
We should have more comedy anime. The budget is lower its still good
Yes, oh god yes, cheap non existent animation is a dealbreaker for me, long panning shots, jawlines not moving, badly drawn characters. Yes I consider 95% of all anime garbage because of it. That's because there's so much shovelware flooding the market.
I watch Demon Slayer for the story. You could give the anime to another studio, and I'd still watch and enjoy.
the jjk manga is actually really good
It's annoying to me when they get annoyed by the fact that Frieren is still number one on MAL. I'ts there because it deserves it. This is not another case of oshi no ko. This is the real deal
I want whatever Joey is smoking
Naaah, my reason is kyousosigiga and uchoten kazoku did not get popular despite its amazing animation. Anime like date a life get insanely popular instead.
Adult Swim proved that a budget doesn't make or break a show, but what does is scope. Being overly ambitious with the resources you have will lead to disaster.
vinland saga is mid animation but still beautiful experience
One company: Queen Bee
I wouldn't mind if everything is animated average. But if season 1 is great and season 2 is just stills with barely animated dialogues it really makes you think why do you watch anime and not manga or read ranobe
Yes it does look at the fable trailer for the anime the budget should be better than what they did wit that lol
Isn't Darling in the Franxx considered for mid story but has pretty animation especially it's from Trigger?????
Older anime probably has lower budget
Ok they really didn’t know what they were talking about when they brought up Bleach TYBW
At this point in my life, if the animation is just going to be barebones I'd rather just read the manga.
Animators cant pop off more when a show gets popular because the majority of the time the show is either finished being animated or is completing its animation as it is airing. One Piece is different because of how long that show is, but big crazy spectacle animation can take weeks if not months of animation to work on.
Yes but so does story.
I'd say Re: Zero season 2 had pretty average at times bad animation and it was quite popular. Of course that's more of an outlier.
It doesn't. Have you watched some of these old anime that are REALLY good? Cause the story is great
I have 2 words demon slayer
Seven Deadly Sins/Berserk 2016
Kingdom season 1
Eh…I’ve only been into anime for like six months or so. I can’t answer this.
In today's day I age that is 💯 correct!
That goes for movies and TV shows just look at the last season of GOT and the writing disaster that was! and there are people who unironically still think it was a good last season because it was pretty
"demon slayer" is one of the most overrated animes In the world and it's all do to its animation because the story and characters are mid at best ! we also had amazing anime come out that same year that didn't get the recognition it deserves like Vinland Saga
berserk confrimed this
Here’s what I said in the original Podcast:
I completely disagree that Anime's success is based of animation. The reason Demon Slayer and JJK are popular are because they are battle series, and have wide appeal. OPM was definitely popularity decreased with new season, however that is a lower quality sequel is more the reason why it was less popular. Plenty of anime have mediocre animation and get popular, and that is almost certainty because of the content of a series rather that the presentation. And yes that definitely includes Demon Slayer, as that is probably on of the most widely appealing modern anime with it's themes and story. There's a reason why that it had high manga sales despite manga not being animated. Also Bleach TYBW is definitely not popular because of animation, what kinda take is that?
Also Steins;Gate looks good, not only for it's time and it's only like 10 years old. I mean the direction beats most anime today imo. Hunter x Hunter is pretty average animation, with some fights looking amazing like Gon vs Hisoka and Meruem vs Netero, but that's really it. Also I would say that FMAB is kinda the same, except that there is more amazing fights in FMAB than Hunter x Hunter.
What are some anime that have mediocre animation that got more popular?
@@Joseph-zh7fm Seven Deadly Sins, early One Piece, Monster at the top of my head.
Early seven deadly had great animation before the dropped the bomb
@@abiekanzy7619 Naw it was very mid in terms of animation.
This is a good and reasonable take in my opinion. Most of the big 3 animation were mainly mid tier until like certain fights like u mention but I swear joey has something in for jjk 😂😂
As long as the animators, editors and other staff are paid well and are good at their job. But everyone knows how terrible Japan is for work place culture.
No it doesn't
Gushing Over Magical Girls
Worst animation quality this season yet the best show this season
Honestly I never even noticed the choppy bits until they were pointed out because everything else is just so stupid in the best way that my attention doesn't care
animation doesn't equal art style ^^