Connor's explanation for the incest in the story makes a lot of sense. He's not defending incest so much as he is explaining how children growing up without a proper education wouldn't understand why it's wrong
which incidentally is a big story moment later on -- the guy who burned down their village in the beginning later explains that the fact that they had accepted cannibalism as a way to survive meant they're no longer civilized / arguably not even human and that this was why he burned them all down. there's more to it, but it's part of that portrayal as "they've unlearned the basic principles of what it means to be human"
Exactly. Depiction =/= endorsement. And Fire Punch sets up it's world in all the bleak ways with all the taboos. It's understandable that the only 2 growing young people who've lost their parents nd are each other's will to live in an isolated village full of old people would delve into incest because they only had each other. And the way Luna's death then impacts Agni and his journey is very compelling too.
Yeah I totally understand what he meant, but in Connors own words "I'm just trolling because it's VERY easy to make someone who's okay with incest look bad". I think that's the wavelength joey and garnt were on lol
I love how Fire Punch goes from “I want revenge” to “I guess I’m god now” to “I don’t want to be god anymore” to “I’m a monster” to the world fucking exploding
@@jan-ep7lmFire Punch spoilers out of context don't really mean anything to be fair...the story does keep going for a little bit past that part, and that's when the drugs REALLY kick in
I remember when I read Fire punch that I thought it was wild that this guy spent a childhood with his sister but the go to flashback was 'lets make a baby'
It's also really interesting how a lot of plot points in Fire Punch have been revisited in Chainsaw Man, particularly how societies will worship a powerful figure despite said figure just being sad and depressed and wanting no part in it. The difference between Denji and Agni, is that one of them is suicidal, and the other one is horny
It's more of a thing in part 2. Specifically when the general public starts worshipping Chainsaw Man, same with how the people starting worshipping Fire Punch. Meanwhile, the target of said worshipping, Agni and Denji, don't really get anything good out of the deal and just want to be left alone.
the last volume literally sums up fujimoto's train of thought. when agni was watching the whole movie, he was confuse through out the movie and said that he didn't get the point of it, but without even realizing it, his hand was clenched in a fist. ofcourse this symbolize us the viewer after reading fire punch. my opinion on this is that no matter how confusing and weird the story is, if it can bring emotion to the viewer(especially without you even realizing it) than that's all that matter
Honestly has one of my favourite pages in all of manga. The “ok you can stop filming, this won’t be that interesting” then followed by a double page spread of insane carnage in the aftermath of the fight we just skipped.
I think in regard to the incest, that although it was a wild and seemingly unnecessary addition, that it adds a lot to the readers because it acts as a first punch to the gut. As you can see by Connor's reaction when he first read it, it immediately woke him up and made him aware of what kind of story it is. Fire Punch is not a conventional story, and Fujimoto definitely shoved that fact in our face by using the idea that Agni and his sister were contemplating incest to comfort each other from an extremely cold and cruel world. Definitely weird, but I don't think much more of it than how incest was used in the plot of GoT.
Also, I think Connor was making a good argument as to why it wasn't used in the narrative to fulfill the author's degenerate tastes like we see so many times in AniManga, but Garnt and Joey were being a bit immature about it imo
I agree, however, saying the incest part was unnecessary is almost like saying anything bad is unnecessary. It's a fictional story, like most are. Making people feel uncomfortable is a part of fictional storytelling. I just don't like when people say when something in fiction is unnecessary. With that being said, if the incest part was there with no context and actually no reason for it, then yes, I agree. Firepunch, however, has a reasoning for it. Showing how that village has become so far lost and uneducated. I'm not calling you out specifically btw haha
Fire Punch is a 10/10 masterpiece. It's not a story that I can say I fully get but it's a story that gets me. It's so unapologetical, empathetic and probably has the most poignant and heartbreaking exploration of identity I've ever read in anything not just manga. This stuff made me cry, laugh, become confused, uncomfortable & horrified and then it ultimately sent me off with a dazed catharsis that still makes me think about it even after so much time.
9/10 for me because Fujimoto has delivered better with CSM, but Fire Punch was so raw and wild and different to anything out there at the time.. it was the first manga that made me feel like some lunatic had my hand in his grip and was pulling me along for a wild, unpredictable ride.
Connor is actually right! Cause stories that delves into taboos are great. It's post ironic with its tone and also in fire punch's setting it really does make sense. The children are the only young people, they're the only ones who take care of each other, there is no proper education and they even dabble in cannibalism another taboo due to their isolation and lack of resources & education(a point that gets emphasised in the story) and it is used to explore a greater theme of identity & coping mechanisms later in the story.
@Sharkofspace From the wiki "post-ironic... a term used to denote a state in which earnest and ironic intents become muddled. It may less commonly refer to its converse: a return from irony to earnestness, similar to New sincerity." Yeah, fire punch is pretty post-ironic.
@@SleepyMatt-zzz No, it isn't. You don't just call something post-ironic because it's weird. Post-ironic implies the possibility of irony that is simply not there.
Fujimoto's just a god damn good writer. There's a very tangible intimacy to his writings that really captures the wierdness and nuances of people in a way that feels real. Reality is so much wierder than what fiction usually presents us with. Fujimoto's works really captures the absurdity of it all. Be it a fascist city plugging people onto factories very much like how essential workers are treated in reality. The outright evil sadism of soldiers who claim to be "innocent". Or the voyeuristic nature of being a director creating a movie. It's all very compelling.
While I agree, he goes way too far with it when it comes to Fire Punch and CSM. When he reins it in, like with Look Back and Goodbye Eri, his writing truly shines.
@@mrstrangeworld5977 Himeno vomiting in Denji's mouth, and the extremely drawn out sequence of the two of them at Himeno's apartment. Also, basically any interaction between him and Makima when they are alone. The biggest one is probably what goes down between Denji and Mitaka recently in the manga though. It's just there for shock value and is purely random. It's just not necessary.
@@FlaredI see those moments more as slight tipping points for Denji. As much as the socially stunted horndog he is, Denji's gotten a lot of terrible experiences from any woman he was even slightly interested in. Like he told Reze, everyone only cares about Chainsaw man's heart, but no one cares about his.
Unfortunately the fact that the main character (which is in almost every scene) is always on fire makes this manga insanely difficult to animate and it will probably not get an anime.
@@Nicodiangelo128-r9g or, hear me out. Using AI to fill in the flame effect for in-betweens. I think that could be a good use for AI where it doesn't replace the animators, while keeping budgets in check.
Sounds like a Pandora's box kind of thing. Like, you decelop a way to make good AI work and it's a hige success and goes great in that instance, but then that studio and a bunch of others take the new technique and bastardize it to make bad cheap animation @@sherochafernando6346
@@GavrielRosario You guy do know "CGI" flame effects are still generated, right? it's not like a duy is rigging the flames and moving the flame joints. The fact that fucking AI art made people more averse to the very concept of AI than Terminator is both hilarious and sad...
Fire punch is something which can never be recreated ever. Just too unique. Bro goes from revenge to movie to god to hating being god to monster to farm arc to world dying arc
It's the kind of series where you finish, and just sit there for a bit trying to process what you just witnessed before going "wtf". It has great rereading potential because you're bound to miss details or interpretations on the first read.
what I love about firepunch and fujimoto in general is that you can just feel him pouring himself into his stories with so much passion not giving a shit what anyone thinks. Is something I've only felt with evangelion and fujimoto stories. Firepunch is not perfect, and gets reeeeeallly weird, but you can just tell this man was struggling with a pain that he could only convey through this depressing and fascinating story, and to me that makes it powerful
Bro, if its animated ? The "empty time" scene is going to FUCK people up. What's even crazier was how far it went with Agni and Judah meeting again at the fucking HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE.
Chainsaw man lost MAPPA a lot of money as they had to mostly fund it themselves, and a large section of the Japanese fans thought it was too "American" which hit Blu-ray sales (something that is a very important marker for an anime's success in Japan for some reason). So I can't see an adaptation any time soon unless it gets a major backer or two.
@@GavrielRosario True, it doesn't have to be MAPPA. But considering how poorly CSM fared financially and the domestic fan backlash, it's not going to look super appealing to other studios.
Fire Punch feels like Fujimoto still experimenting. He hadn’t hit that controlled chaos equilibrium that he would with CSM. Plenty of 10/10 moments but it’s plot is a little bit too all over the place to be the smash success his later stories would be
Nah fire punch is an actual story for its own sake. CSM is good but you can feel that its written to fit as a shonen not just a piece of art on its own.
Honestly, I think the great problem for a lot of people with Fujimoto is that he doesn't write it's mangas like a weekly comic, he writes it like a completed work. Most of the time he has the entire story planned out and knows how to get from one point to another with the most over the top situations possible, which is why "look back" or "Goodbye Eri" receive so much praise. Because they are short enough so that you don't get confused on the way through
i always loved the idea of it. this guy that wants revenge and eventually sees himself as a hero until he realizes that all these people he killed all just wanted to survive in this frozen world. by the end he realized that to some he may be a hero but to other groups he is just a monster. reminds me a lot of the "i am legend" novel and the 60s adaptation "the last man on earth". in the sense that the main character kills all those vampires thinking that they are monsters and he is doing the right thing. until he learns that he has basicly been killing a new breed of mankind and to them will be a sort of boggyman, a legend. it's by far not perfect, but i still enjoyed it.
It gets a 10/10 for experimental though. I remember when I read it in middle school, I was like "what the actual f-" every chapter. And it doesn't get any less interesting with every reread. The way it explores ideas and themes that aren't commonly seen through the weirdness is also very captivating.
I love how in anime/manga connor is the most coherent and reasonable. His thought process is so fun to watch and listen to, when Joey is just pretentious as fuck. Its just so hard to listen to his takes, like "wow this is more interesting, and something is not interesting, and I JuSt DoNt CaRe AbOuT ThE WoRld". like, dude, just tell that you can`t care less about expressing your feelings, like, I am always upset from Joey`s takes. They just don`t make sense. Connor is so chill and cool dude. OH and Garnt, I love you!
What are you talking about? Joey didnt even say anything pretentious in this clip lmao, also to answer your other question, whether you hated or loved oshi no ko, his takes on it were absolutely insane considering half of the shit he complained about was adressed in the show or just completely didn't happen, same goes for 86
@@ragberkotobuki41 Connors Oshi No Ko take was pretty shit, instead of just saying "it isn't for me", he literally had to make up stuff to complain about, which to me, makes it almost seem like he was salty about its success or something, idk, it was a really strange thing for him to do To give you the an example I can think of, he said that Aqua was stalking the depressed girl, when we literally see the opposite in the actual story
@@lazz5207except oshi no ko is actually dogwater, like nowadays as long as an anime is cute, people will disregard any horrible plot value and just call it peak, it’s the perfect bait.
I actual finished fire punch this morning, and my god, i thought i knew what i was getting myself into with the knowledge i had about fujimoto and his other works, and it still shocked me in the end.
No lie firepunch gave me the most best respectful representation of trans people which really did teach me like I never thought it like that did help me shit ton on understanding and sympathy and see the complexity and respect for these people
Fire Punch Spoilers without Context : -Head -War -Poison -Tree -Lonely by Justin Bieber -Gojo's Unlimited Void -Romeo and Juliet -The Heat Death of the Universe -TALK SMT III NOCTURNE -Give her hugs -Movies over, leave the theater
14:11 For the Audience that don't know the TrashTaste Lore and exactly why Garnt and Joey are laughing. All the Hardccore Oriemo Fans- "It took four long years but...We got em boys. We got em."
The incest in Fire Punch is so easily understandable I actually do not get how that is enough for people to turn away from the manga. Two people who regenerate cutting off pieces of themself so their village doesn't starve is cool but I draw the line at a incestous relationship between two deeply hurt and lonely siblings. If you think for more than five seconds it very obviously does not condone incest. Fire Punch isn't pushing the agenda of Big Incest. If you have trauma around incest I perfectly understand being unable to read this story though. But it takes the dumbest person imaginable to think Fire Punch condones incest.
@@Clooger- I really don't like how he frames the argument either. It should've been, "I can see how it can turn people off, however...". It's one of the things that I would call a filter, among gore and violence. Usually the people turned off by those things either aren't looking for a story like that, or don't see beyond it. Take Game of thrones for example, it has some questionable things too, but everyone overlooks it because it tells a good story. Berserk isn't good because it's so gory and violent and whatnot, but because it's a good story. Same deal here. However, there are some stories that definitely do warrant a hard drive check.
@mrstrangeworld5977 Glad you personally know this guy irl to know what he's thinking. Make an argument that isn't based on assumptions and bullshlt next time.
@@MagmaSpacer real talk, it's because Yuji epitomises the change needed in jujutsu society. Gojo, ironically, is the ideal sorcerer for a society he hates: he is the ultimate result of a bloodline's heritage, who stands alone as a mighty sorcerer. The only people he really has a connection with are his students, who he hopes will not grow up to be like him. Yuji is the opposite: some nobody from nowhere, who never works alone. He is more than happy to take a back seat to co-operate with others, and he inspires others to co-operate in turn. Yuji and friends are sorcerers who support one another, rather than focusing on themselves first.
@@jackdixon6681 That very easily could have just been Yuta but they decided not to for some reason. Also Yuji from what I gathered was still perfectly engineered to have a better body, so while yes he doesn’t have some super known bloodline he was still given a genetic advantage. Legitimately the only thing he does that’s special is work with others, which again, could have been Yuta or other sorcerers like Nobara who actually comes from nothing.
@@MagmaSpacer "if yuta was like yuji, then he could've been like yuji" And if sukuna was like yuji, then *he* could've been like yuji too! The core of their differences can be seen from the way that Gojo talks in chapter 236: "...somewhere along the way there was a line I drew... You can admire a flower, but you can't tell it 'i want you to understand me'" Rika is the literal manifestation of that line for Yuta. He isn't yuji, and he never can be. Meanwhile, in the same chapter, Gojo says that Yuji is the one who will teach sukuna about what it means to love. It is yuji's empathy that makes him strong, and also what makes him the symbol of the future of sorcery. It lets him forge connections with others, even breaking through the negative emotions of a curse as shown in the final conversation of the manga (trying to stay relatively spoiler free here) Re: his bloodline. Ehhhhhhh. It's not like Gojo, who inherits a generational legacy from an established bloodline in jujutsu society, yuji just has high potential. Minor manga spoilers, but yuji is tied to sukuna's unborn twin through reincarnation shenanigans, and also had a finger sealed inside him from birth by kenjaku "in order to strengthen him up as a vessel". So he's strong from the finger, and he has great potential from his parents, but it's incomparable to something like 6 eyes or 10 shadows. Yeah nobara could also have worked as a protagonist, if she wasn't fuckin dead for half the story.
I have also read fire punch a year ago. It was 10/10. The weird romance between agni and fake "luna" did something to me lol. It touched so many topics like nihilism, gender dilleama, movie, religion.
NGL i would love to see a fire punch adaptation. It would definitely be rated R or mature audiences, but I feel we need more gruesome darker stories in television. This also applies to Berserk which also deserves an adaptation.
People need to stop consuming exclusively non-offensive content, it seems to rot their brains so that they can't handle anything that has mildly "offensive" aspects to it. Art will very often challenge and offend you, get used to it.
Connor became so based. Like unironically his incest take is peak logical. Under certain settings, it can be used as a strong aspect for a story. Its just almost never used such a way.
Just finish it. Its more like the ending to the modern Evangelion rather than old, its pretty easy to understand but you can interpret it several ways if you want to, great manga
in my headcanon, tatsuki is a siscon, he once made a twiiter acc where he pretended to be a little sister and filipino for some reason, yes that's real
Yeah... when watching S1 of Jujutsu Kaisen, I would've much prefered if Yuuji actually died where he did and was revealed to be a decoy protagonist. With either Megumi or Gojo taking over as a new protagonist.
Megumi would make sense, but Gojo wouldn't at all, it would literally just be him one-shotting everyone assuming he doesn't get sealed(which you can't really do to your main character)
I love the manga! I don't even understand why it should be "defended"? Broken people in a broken society! And his actions make perfect sense! We're humans and irrational creatures! Besides, most readers make the mistake of identifying with an MC! Maybe it's time to reread it and suffer again (at least it will not be as painful as the first time)
Spoilies warning Fire punch is my favorite manga ever and i love it so much and it means everything to me, the general theme of facades and deceit playing through everything, from togata lying about his entire ass gender to agni believing the lies that were peddled to him BY togata. The blending of reality into a fantasy, especially after togata's death becoming incredibly weird and almost dreamlike, as if we're watching from Agni's own eyes as he goes insane. To me, not everything makes sense but it doesn't have to. The execution paints a picture stronger than most manga I've ever read, and yes I do believe the execution is better than the concept by MILES.
Fire Punch is a great example of depiction=/=Endorsement. I think the problem is that people keep reading it at face value. Honestly I can't blame a lot of people, the story is dense and really fast pased. It can be pretty hard to keep track. It's such a great story, but one I can never recommend 😅😅😅
Okay so after reading ALL of Fire punch and catching up to Chainsaw man I've come to the conclusion that the author is trying to recreate the vibes of the Devilman ending for the modern era (Chainsaw Man arc 1 ALMOST accomplished this)
The incest talk happens between a brother and a sister that live by themselves in a small village suffering from famine due to the ice apocalypse situation they are trying to survive. So yea, I feel like the incest thing makes a bit of sense here. At the very least you can take it more serious than the usual incest you see in harem anime for example.
Spoiler alert for Fire Punch, but Connor's explanation actually fits within the themes very well. A big piece of Fire Punch is how we collectively forget the consequences of our actions in a post apocalyptic world. Its why the village was burned in the first place, because they were teaching eachother to become cannibals.
I think the boys didn’t explain just how strange Fujimoto is, especially with the incest/ little sister stuff. One of his first One Shots was about 2 sisters who end up drawing each other naked and Fujimotos former Twitter account was one of the most funny WTF moments I’ve ever seen, where he pretends to be his little sister in elementary or middle school and posts about her older brother… he doesn’t have a sister and at some point the account got banned for impersonation, lol
The wild scenes in Fire Punch are there for a good reason, they aren't just shock values. Fire Punch heavily explores the theme of indoctrination, religion, and prescribed identities. Those scenes capture the people's lack of education and primitive views, like their preconception of inherent roles of each gender. Their belief system treats women as child bearers and treats certain group of people as a 'fuel', and fuels have no human rights. Everyone suffers from the role society has assigned to them. Togata suffers from the pressure to conform to gender role and Agni is also forced to take on many roles; an unlimited food source for the villagers, a hateful avenger, a movie actor, and a god. The incest scene just sets you up for the upcoming weird relationship between Agni and Judah. Fire Punch is an excellently written piece and is the series that puts Fujimoto in my top 5 mangaka of all time.
The manga delving into sort of, somewhat change and transness (the movie maker) is interesting but I feel at least in how Connor describes it, many readers just don't understand what it's about
Lol when s2 of JJK ended if people told me jjk sucks, i would have been like "what are you smoking" but after reading the manga to the end, people are just better off not investing in the story. The story after this arc becomes absolute dogshit, with horrible pacing, overly complex power system(seriously, you need a phd to understand that shit) and no investment into any character. If you asked someone to read jjk from after shibuya without reading anything before it, you would never know that itadori is the protagonist. They focus on sooo many characters, but, dont flesh out any of them. Watch JJK for the fights, ignore the story. Anime only's will know what im talking about in the later seasons, unless the anime improves the pacing.
@@jan-ep7lm he is right tho, there are a handful of interesting fights after s2 but overall it sucks after this arc. I think in anime form it will be a lot better than in the manga tho
@@anima94 gojo vs sukuna sukuna vs everyone hakari vs kashimo yuki and choso vs kenjaku yuta vs uro vs ryu maki vs zenin clan. all these fights are at the very least on par with the best fights pre culling games and im prett sure they make up more than half the length of what happens since
Its hard to see them talk about JJK and the mess that is to come. Such potential, lost to the writer not caring about it and just wanting it to be done.
Its not weird, its a cinematic experience especially when Agni gets to Duma. It makes sense in the context of the world setting since every has been living in a frozen hellscape. No one is normal.
I watch alot of anime manga content so UA-cam constantly recommends me trash taste... I have so many thoughts It feels so frustrating when huge platforms have the most milk toast opinions as if it's something controversial... Maybe it's cause I'm not following the podcast or that outta the loop but everyone I know praises fujimoto and fire punch ... What I'm trying to say why do these big platforms exist if they just regurgitate or discuss the most popular or widely accepted takes, authors etc... it feels like adding to the noise ...like why does this exist if I'm not gonna hear anything new or creative?
No it isn't. Unless having a trans fella in it makes it woke. Which is the kind of take enlightened people such as synthetic man and his kind would have. And for some god forsaken reason ya'll try to prove them right
Connor's explanation for the incest in the story makes a lot of sense. He's not defending incest so much as he is explaining how children growing up without a proper education wouldn't understand why it's wrong
Yup, it is understanding without condoning it.
which incidentally is a big story moment later on -- the guy who burned down their village in the beginning later explains that the fact that they had accepted cannibalism as a way to survive meant they're no longer civilized / arguably not even human and that this was why he burned them all down. there's more to it, but it's part of that portrayal as "they've unlearned the basic principles of what it means to be human"
Exactly. Depiction =/= endorsement. And Fire Punch sets up it's world in all the bleak ways with all the taboos. It's understandable that the only 2 growing young people who've lost their parents nd are each other's will to live in an isolated village full of old people would delve into incest because they only had each other. And the way Luna's death then impacts Agni and his journey is very compelling too.
I think it should be clear for everyone when you take context into account!
Yeah I totally understand what he meant, but in Connors own words "I'm just trolling because it's VERY easy to make someone who's okay with incest look bad". I think that's the wavelength joey and garnt were on lol
I love how Fire Punch goes from “I want revenge” to “I guess I’m god now” to “I don’t want to be god anymore” to “I’m a monster” to the world fucking exploding
nice spoiler big thanks
@@jan-ep7lmFire Punch spoilers out of context don't really mean anything to be fair...the story does keep going for a little bit past that part, and that's when the drugs REALLY kick in
@@jan-ep7lmyou had so many chances of not reading it, and yet you still continue to read it, that's on you lmfao
Went from jojo part 1 to jojo part 6 real fast😂
@@VahnXVI bro was spitting some vague bullshit but at the end he hits us with the world exploding
I remember when I read Fire punch that I thought it was wild that this guy spent a childhood with his sister but the go to flashback was 'lets make a baby'
PEAK.
Wincest.
Interesting
When you remember peak fiction
KINO
It's also really interesting how a lot of plot points in Fire Punch have been revisited in Chainsaw Man, particularly how societies will worship a powerful figure despite said figure just being sad and depressed and wanting no part in it. The difference between Denji and Agni, is that one of them is suicidal, and the other one is horny
I disagree in some parts, mainly because I think at this point they are both pretty suicidal now.
with the recent csm chapters you couldnt even tell who's horny and suicidal between denji and agni lol
I dont really see many parallels between the two works tbh
It's more of a thing in part 2. Specifically when the general public starts worshipping Chainsaw Man, same with how the people starting worshipping Fire Punch. Meanwhile, the target of said worshipping, Agni and Denji, don't really get anything good out of the deal and just want to be left alone.
I can't imagine Denji wants to be alive rn tbh
Fun fact : Norman Reedus who starred in Hideo Kojima's Death Stranding was out in Akihabara looking for Fire Punch Merch a few months ago.
Basedman Reedus
Thats awesome
the last volume literally sums up fujimoto's train of thought. when agni was watching the whole movie, he was confuse through out the movie and said that he didn't get the point of it, but without even realizing it, his hand was clenched in a fist. ofcourse this symbolize us the viewer after reading fire punch. my opinion on this is that no matter how confusing and weird the story is, if it can bring emotion to the viewer(especially without you even realizing it) than that's all that matter
INSANE ANALYZATION AND INTEPRATATION
Honestly has one of my favourite pages in all of manga.
The “ok you can stop filming, this won’t be that interesting” then followed by a double page spread of insane carnage in the aftermath of the fight we just skipped.
fax
I think in regard to the incest, that although it was a wild and seemingly unnecessary addition, that it adds a lot to the readers because it acts as a first punch to the gut.
As you can see by Connor's reaction when he first read it, it immediately woke him up and made him aware of what kind of story it is.
Fire Punch is not a conventional story, and Fujimoto definitely shoved that fact in our face by using the idea that Agni and his sister were contemplating incest to comfort each other from an extremely cold and cruel world.
Definitely weird, but I don't think much more of it than how incest was used in the plot of GoT.
Also, I think Connor was making a good argument as to why it wasn't used in the narrative to fulfill the author's degenerate tastes like we see so many times in AniManga, but Garnt and Joey were being a bit immature about it imo
Did he stream reading it?
@@arfanik9827Joey and garnt really need to revisit the manga, it's meant to be read at least twice to understand it
@@RaspyChI don’t think so he just recorded his reaction for this video
I agree, however, saying the incest part was unnecessary is almost like saying anything bad is unnecessary. It's a fictional story, like most are. Making people feel uncomfortable is a part of fictional storytelling. I just don't like when people say when something in fiction is unnecessary.
With that being said, if the incest part was there with no context and actually no reason for it, then yes, I agree. Firepunch, however, has a reasoning for it. Showing how that village has become so far lost and uneducated.
I'm not calling you out specifically btw haha
Fire Punch is a 10/10 masterpiece. It's not a story that I can say I fully get but it's a story that gets me. It's so unapologetical, empathetic and probably has the most poignant and heartbreaking exploration of identity I've ever read in anything not just manga. This stuff made me cry, laugh, become confused, uncomfortable & horrified and then it ultimately sent me off with a dazed catharsis that still makes me think about it even after so much time.
I agree man, it's 8/10 for me but it is still a masterpiece and one of the best psychological mangas out there
9/10 for me because Fujimoto has delivered better with CSM, but Fire Punch was so raw and wild and different to anything out there at the time.. it was the first manga that made me feel like some lunatic had my hand in his grip and was pulling me along for a wild, unpredictable ride.
100% agreed
10/10 for me as well, but I can understand people dropping it because of the weird scenes
To understand everything that happens you have to REALLY pay attention to the dialogues
Connor is actually right! Cause stories that delves into taboos are great. It's post ironic with its tone and also in fire punch's setting it really does make sense. The children are the only young people, they're the only ones who take care of each other, there is no proper education and they even dabble in cannibalism another taboo due to their isolation and lack of resources & education(a point that gets emphasised in the story) and it is used to explore a greater theme of identity & coping mechanisms later in the story.
OK, but have you considered the fact that it's...WEIRD???? (This is a joke)
It's not ironic
@@rdwn1999 Joey definitely heard the term post-ironic somewhere and added it to his vocabulary without knowing what it means.
@Sharkofspace From the wiki "post-ironic... a term used to denote a state in which earnest and ironic intents become muddled. It may less commonly refer to its converse: a return from irony to earnestness, similar to New sincerity."
Yeah, fire punch is pretty post-ironic.
@@SleepyMatt-zzz No, it isn't. You don't just call something post-ironic because it's weird.
Post-ironic implies the possibility of irony that is simply not there.
Fujimoto's just a god damn good writer. There's a very tangible intimacy to his writings that really captures the wierdness and nuances of people in a way that feels real. Reality is so much wierder than what fiction usually presents us with. Fujimoto's works really captures the absurdity of it all. Be it a fascist city plugging people onto factories very much like how essential workers are treated in reality. The outright evil sadism of soldiers who claim to be "innocent". Or the voyeuristic nature of being a director creating a movie. It's all very compelling.
While I agree, he goes way too far with it when it comes to Fire Punch and CSM. When he reins it in, like with Look Back and Goodbye Eri, his writing truly shines.
@@Flaredhow does he go to far with csm give examples
@@mrstrangeworld5977 Himeno vomiting in Denji's mouth, and the extremely drawn out sequence of the two of them at Himeno's apartment. Also, basically any interaction between him and Makima when they are alone. The biggest one is probably what goes down between Denji and Mitaka recently in the manga though.
It's just there for shock value and is purely random. It's just not necessary.
@@FlaredI see those moments more as slight tipping points for Denji. As much as the socially stunted horndog he is, Denji's gotten a lot of terrible experiences from any woman he was even slightly interested in. Like he told Reze, everyone only cares about Chainsaw man's heart, but no one cares about his.
Unfortunately the fact that the main character (which is in almost every scene) is always on fire makes this manga insanely difficult to animate and it will probably not get an anime.
I'm sure it can be worked around using CGI
@@Nicodiangelo128-r9g or, hear me out. Using AI to fill in the flame effect for in-betweens. I think that could be a good use for AI where it doesn't replace the animators, while keeping budgets in check.
@@sherochafernando6346 lets just stick to cgi for now
Sounds like a Pandora's box kind of thing. Like, you decelop a way to make good AI work and it's a hige success and goes great in that instance, but then that studio and a bunch of others take the new technique and bastardize it to make bad cheap animation @@sherochafernando6346
@@GavrielRosario You guy do know "CGI" flame effects are still generated, right? it's not like a duy is rigging the flames and moving the flame joints. The fact that fucking AI art made people more averse to the very concept of AI than Terminator is both hilarious and sad...
Fire punch is something which can never be recreated ever. Just too unique.
Bro goes from revenge to movie to god to hating being god to monster to farm arc to world dying arc
It's the kind of series where you finish, and just sit there for a bit trying to process what you just witnessed before going "wtf". It has great rereading potential because you're bound to miss details or interpretations on the first read.
it could tbh
We got Connor reading Fire punch before GTA 6🗣🗣🔥🔥
what I love about firepunch and fujimoto in general is that you can just feel him pouring himself into his stories with so much passion not giving a shit what anyone thinks. Is something I've only felt with evangelion and fujimoto stories. Firepunch is not perfect, and gets reeeeeallly weird, but you can just tell this man was struggling with a pain that he could only convey through this depressing and fascinating story, and to me that makes it powerful
He didn’t even get to that infamous panel of Agni
Which one do you mean? It really was a while when i read it the last time.
@@denzy3929the Agni face staring at the reader. It’s a huge reaction image now
@@tyrnip7868 huh. I haven't come across this one yet
@ just google Agni face. It’s going to be all over results
@@denzy3929 the agni "live" face
fire punch needs to be animated. look back and goodbye eri are guaranteed but fire punch needs to be confirmed.
Bro, if its animated ? The "empty time" scene is going to FUCK people up.
What's even crazier was how far it went with Agni and Judah meeting again at the fucking HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE.
How the hell are they going to anime a series where the main character is on fire 24/7.
Chainsaw man lost MAPPA a lot of money as they had to mostly fund it themselves, and a large section of the Japanese fans thought it was too "American" which hit Blu-ray sales (something that is a very important marker for an anime's success in Japan for some reason). So I can't see an adaptation any time soon unless it gets a major backer or two.
@@Flared i mean it doesn't need to be mappa tho
@@GavrielRosario True, it doesn't have to be MAPPA. But considering how poorly CSM fared financially and the domestic fan backlash, it's not going to look super appealing to other studios.
Fire Punch feels like Fujimoto still experimenting. He hadn’t hit that controlled chaos equilibrium that he would with CSM.
Plenty of 10/10 moments but it’s plot is a little bit too all over the place to be the smash success his later stories would be
The plot seems good to me, maybe the tree thing feels like out of nowhere but the rest is great.
Lucky the mc managed to smash something lol
@ Star Wars🤣 like… it’s silly and great. But It’s an audience alienating rapid fire of story shifting events and focus.
Nah fire punch is an actual story for its own sake. CSM is good but you can feel that its written to fit as a shonen not just a piece of art on its own.
I personally feel, Fire Punch is his best work till date. It's just so unhinged and thematically dense at times, it's gets hella good.
I love reading Fire Punch. Looking forward to see what Connors think about when Agni fight in the city
Honestly, I think the great problem for a lot of people with Fujimoto is that he doesn't write it's mangas like a weekly comic, he writes it like a completed work. Most of the time he has the entire story planned out and knows how to get from one point to another with the most over the top situations possible, which is why "look back" or "Goodbye Eri" receive so much praise. Because they are short enough so that you don't get confused on the way through
Then I guess they're making a mistake with chainsawman, it's going on for too long
But he isn't the only manga writer who knows how their work will end
the incest bit is clip of the year LMFAO
When i read it i declared it as one of the best masterpiece I've ever read
Fire Punch also adresses several important topics for the LGBT community in a respectful way.
As someone that read firepunch in one sitting all I can say is it certainly was an experience
Fire Punch is like a roller coster in Antarctica but its covered in naplam aka a good ride
Even at its weirdest, Fire Punch hit me like a ton of bricks. It’s my Evangelion.
i always loved the idea of it. this guy that wants revenge and eventually sees himself as a hero until he realizes that all these people he killed all just wanted to survive in this frozen world. by the end he realized that to some he may be a hero but to other groups he is just a monster.
reminds me a lot of the "i am legend" novel and the 60s adaptation "the last man on earth".
in the sense that the main character kills all those vampires thinking that they are monsters and he is doing the right thing.
until he learns that he has basicly been killing a new breed of mankind and to them will be a sort of boggyman, a legend.
it's by far not perfect, but i still enjoyed it.
This is on my shelf, waiting for me.
Read it, its a banger but a weird one, but youve probably already read chainsaw man so your prepared
14:00 The moment Connor folds like a pair of imouto’s pantsu
Fujimoto levitates.
The story may not be a 10/10, but the covers of Firepunch go so freaking hard.
I'd give it a solid 8/10, which is still pretty damn solid. Yeah, the covers are definitely one of the highlights tho, lol. They go hard
It gets a 10/10 for experimental though. I remember when I read it in middle school, I was like "what the actual f-" every chapter. And it doesn't get any less interesting with every reread. The way it explores ideas and themes that aren't commonly seen through the weirdness is also very captivating.
I love how in anime/manga connor is the most coherent and reasonable. His thought process is so fun to watch and listen to, when Joey is just pretentious as fuck. Its just so hard to listen to his takes, like "wow this is more interesting, and something is not interesting, and I JuSt DoNt CaRe AbOuT ThE WoRld". like, dude, just tell that you can`t care less about expressing your feelings, like, I am always upset from Joey`s takes. They just don`t make sense. Connor is so chill and cool dude. OH and Garnt, I love you!
Connor is far from the most reasonable when it comes to anime
@mrstrangeworld5977 well, idk, didn't catch that any examples?
What are you talking about? Joey didnt even say anything pretentious in this clip lmao, also to answer your other question, whether you hated or loved oshi no ko, his takes on it were absolutely insane considering half of the shit he complained about was adressed in the show or just completely didn't happen, same goes for 86
@@ragberkotobuki41
Connors Oshi No Ko take was pretty shit, instead of just saying "it isn't for me", he literally had to make up stuff to complain about, which to me, makes it almost seem like he was salty about its success or something, idk, it was a really strange thing for him to do
To give you the an example I can think of, he said that Aqua was stalking the depressed girl, when we literally see the opposite in the actual story
@@lazz5207except oshi no ko is actually dogwater, like nowadays as long as an anime is cute, people will disregard any horrible plot value and just call it peak, it’s the perfect bait.
i genuinely dont understand how people are so weirded out by so many things
k
The ending of Fire Punch gives such a specific feeling of like emptiness that I've rarely gotten from media truly an amazing manga.
Fire Punch has one of my absolute favorite sequences in it. Togata in the convoy scene makes me laugh every time.
That ending, man I still about even years later…
I still can’t fully articulate what Fire Punch did to me, but it did something.
I actual finished fire punch this morning, and my god, i thought i knew what i was getting myself into with the knowledge i had about fujimoto and his other works, and it still shocked me in the end.
No lie firepunch gave me the most best respectful representation of trans people which really did teach me like I never thought it like that did help me shit ton on understanding and sympathy and see the complexity and respect for these people
Fujimoto's love of cinema was a big reason I felt like I needed to see Look Back adapted in theatres. Great movie
its actually explained in chapter 0 that the world is frozen because of the gifted of ice who froze the world
3:15, we are the boiling frog, Tatsuki is the one controlling the heat,
Trash taste is at its best when garnt is laughing uncontrollably while one of the other two is stammering an explanation for their point
they way connor feels about insect in Fire Punch is how some would feel about Ashley and LeyLey from The coffin of andrew and leyley.... just saying
The average Fujimoto experience: “wtf is going on”
"on that bombshell" -Garnt Clarkson
4:48 connor reacting is so fucking funny LMAOO
Fire Punch is the greatest shitpost and I love it
Latest CSM chapter peaks into immortality leading to becoming into a tree, THE SAME AS THE LAST CHAPTERS OF FIREPUNCH!!!
yeah that manga gets weirder and weirder, i really wanna see Connors reaction on ending of manga.
Can’t believe he single handily defended the cliche
19:47 -Spoken like a true Isekai fan. Of course you like the actual OP, god-tier character 😂
I can't wait until Conner finishes Fire Punch, it's so fucking good.
i love how weird and dark Fire Punch is
Fire Punch Spoilers without Context :
-Head
-War
-Poison
-Tree
-Lonely by Justin Bieber
-Gojo's Unlimited Void
-Romeo and Juliet
-The Heat Death of the Universe
-TALK SMT III NOCTURNE
-Give her hugs
-Movies over, leave the theater
You left out star wars smh
14:11 For the Audience that don't know the TrashTaste Lore and exactly why Garnt and Joey are laughing.
All the Hardccore Oriemo Fans- "It took four long years but...We got em boys. We got em."
love that i said seven and a half in unison with garnt
The incest in Fire Punch is so easily understandable I actually do not get how that is enough for people to turn away from the manga. Two people who regenerate cutting off pieces of themself so their village doesn't starve is cool but I draw the line at a incestous relationship between two deeply hurt and lonely siblings. If you think for more than five seconds it very obviously does not condone incest. Fire Punch isn't pushing the agenda of Big Incest. If you have trauma around incest I perfectly understand being unable to read this story though. But it takes the dumbest person imaginable to think Fire Punch condones incest.
If you can't process why incest would turn people off of a story, you need your fucklng hard drive checked. Yesterday.
@@Clooger- I really don't like how he frames the argument either. It should've been, "I can see how it can turn people off, however...". It's one of the things that I would call a filter, among gore and violence. Usually the people turned off by those things either aren't looking for a story like that, or don't see beyond it. Take Game of thrones for example, it has some questionable things too, but everyone overlooks it because it tells a good story. Berserk isn't good because it's so gory and violent and whatnot, but because it's a good story. Same deal here. However, there are some stories that definitely do warrant a hard drive check.
@@Clooger-that's not what he means but it having those elements doesn't make it bad story
@@Hyvexxno absolutely not you can't take a story and think hard drive check I strong disagree
@mrstrangeworld5977 Glad you personally know this guy irl to know what he's thinking. Make an argument that isn't based on assumptions and bullshlt next time.
Joey: JJK S2 is OK
Me: oh, I want to hear his opinions
Joey: I watched only 3 episodes
Me: ...nevermind
and yet again, I am reminded why this podcast is named "Trash Taste"
"Gojo should've been the main character" Yet another person who doesn't understand JJK 😭
@@sour1020Why *is* Yuji the main character?
@@MagmaSpacer real talk, it's because Yuji epitomises the change needed in jujutsu society.
Gojo, ironically, is the ideal sorcerer for a society he hates: he is the ultimate result of a bloodline's heritage, who stands alone as a mighty sorcerer. The only people he really has a connection with are his students, who he hopes will not grow up to be like him.
Yuji is the opposite: some nobody from nowhere, who never works alone. He is more than happy to take a back seat to co-operate with others, and he inspires others to co-operate in turn. Yuji and friends are sorcerers who support one another, rather than focusing on themselves first.
@@jackdixon6681 That very easily could have just been Yuta but they decided not to for some reason. Also Yuji from what I gathered was still perfectly engineered to have a better body, so while yes he doesn’t have some super known bloodline he was still given a genetic advantage. Legitimately the only thing he does that’s special is work with others, which again, could have been Yuta or other sorcerers like Nobara who actually comes from nothing.
@@MagmaSpacer "if yuta was like yuji, then he could've been like yuji"
And if sukuna was like yuji, then *he* could've been like yuji too!
The core of their differences can be seen from the way that Gojo talks in chapter 236: "...somewhere along the way there was a line I drew... You can admire a flower, but you can't tell it 'i want you to understand me'"
Rika is the literal manifestation of that line for Yuta. He isn't yuji, and he never can be.
Meanwhile, in the same chapter, Gojo says that Yuji is the one who will teach sukuna about what it means to love. It is yuji's empathy that makes him strong, and also what makes him the symbol of the future of sorcery. It lets him forge connections with others, even breaking through the negative emotions of a curse as shown in the final conversation of the manga (trying to stay relatively spoiler free here)
Re: his bloodline. Ehhhhhhh. It's not like Gojo, who inherits a generational legacy from an established bloodline in jujutsu society, yuji just has high potential. Minor manga spoilers, but yuji is tied to sukuna's unborn twin through reincarnation shenanigans, and also had a finger sealed inside him from birth by kenjaku "in order to strengthen him up as a vessel". So he's strong from the finger, and he has great potential from his parents, but it's incomparable to something like 6 eyes or 10 shadows.
Yeah nobara could also have worked as a protagonist, if she wasn't fuckin dead for half the story.
3:23 IT HAPENNED AGAIN
Bought fire punch about a year ago still haven’t read it I really need to read it
fire punch is a tripppp fujimoto been making whatever tf he wants since the beginning
fire punch anime NEEDS to happen
Even Gege doesn't care much about Itadori
I have also read fire punch a year ago. It was 10/10. The weird romance between agni and fake "luna" did something to me lol. It touched so many topics like nihilism, gender dilleama, movie, religion.
NGL i would love to see a fire punch adaptation. It would definitely be rated R or mature audiences, but I feel we need more gruesome darker stories in television. This also applies to Berserk which also deserves an adaptation.
Fujimoto is basically Nicolas Cage mangaka :v, too good or too weird to explain
I'm so glad the didn't mention the Star Wars moment
People need to stop consuming exclusively non-offensive content, it seems to rot their brains so that they can't handle anything that has mildly "offensive" aspects to it. Art will very often challenge and offend you, get used to it.
Stop telling people what they should and shouldn't be offended about.
@@UntitledForabit Stop trying to limit artistic expression because you might get "offended".
@@Chaoskoch Stop putting art before human emotions.
Art wouldn't exist without our emotions. You just want people to be emotionless drones.
@@UntitledForabit Art is the expression of human emotions. Don't hide behind sophistry.
@@Chaoskoch woah dude woah youre so twisted bro woah so edgy and cool i wish i was more like you senpai uwu
Watching connor talk about incest in such an understanding way, was certainly not in my bingo card
i guess im re-reading punpun and fire punch
Omg this is the biggest W of 2024.
Connor became so based. Like unironically his incest take is peak logical.
Under certain settings, it can be used as a strong aspect for a story. Its just almost never used such a way.
Just finish it. Its more like the ending to the modern Evangelion rather than old, its pretty easy to understand but you can interpret it several ways if you want to, great manga
The incest is folk lore accurate to the Eskimo origin of the moon and the sun.
Whoa, I didn't know the Trash Taste guys made a channel called Based Taste Highlights?!
I get frozen apocalypse manhua vibes from the story relatively common manhua trope
in my headcanon, tatsuki is a siscon, he once made a twiiter acc where he pretended to be a little sister and filipino for some reason, yes that's real
Thats pretty funny. Another Wujimoto moment for the books.
fire punch is tatsuki fujimoto's best manga for mr
Yeah... when watching S1 of Jujutsu Kaisen, I would've much prefered if Yuuji actually died where he did and was revealed to be a decoy protagonist. With either Megumi or Gojo taking over as a new protagonist.
that wouldn't make sense
Megumi would make sense, but Gojo wouldn't at all, it would literally just be him one-shotting everyone assuming he doesn't get sealed(which you can't really do to your main character)
I have a hard time thinking he has read 25 chapters and haven't seen anything weird hahaha
DONT WATCH THE VIDEO JUST SKIP TO 15:28 TRUST ME
I love the manga! I don't even understand why it should be "defended"? Broken people in a broken society! And his actions make perfect sense! We're humans and irrational creatures! Besides, most readers make the mistake of identifying with an MC!
Maybe it's time to reread it and suffer again (at least it will not be as painful as the first time)
Spoilies warning
Fire punch is my favorite manga ever and i love it so much and it means everything to me, the general theme of facades and deceit playing through everything, from togata lying about his entire ass gender to agni believing the lies that were peddled to him BY togata. The blending of reality into a fantasy, especially after togata's death becoming incredibly weird and almost dreamlike, as if we're watching from Agni's own eyes as he goes insane. To me, not everything makes sense but it doesn't have to. The execution paints a picture stronger than most manga I've ever read, and yes I do believe the execution is better than the concept by MILES.
Fire Punch was drawn for live-action. Just use the panels as storyboards.
Fire Punch is a great example of depiction=/=Endorsement. I think the problem is that people keep reading it at face value. Honestly I can't blame a lot of people, the story is dense and really fast pased. It can be pretty hard to keep track.
It's such a great story, but one I can never recommend 😅😅😅
Okay so after reading ALL of Fire punch and catching up to Chainsaw man I've come to the conclusion that the author is trying to recreate the vibes of the Devilman ending for the modern era (Chainsaw Man arc 1 ALMOST accomplished this)
The incest talk happens between a brother and a sister that live by themselves in a small village suffering from famine due to the ice apocalypse situation they are trying to survive. So yea, I feel like the incest thing makes a bit of sense here. At the very least you can take it more serious than the usual incest you see in harem anime for example.
Spoiler alert for Fire Punch, but Connor's explanation actually fits within the themes very well.
A big piece of Fire Punch is how we collectively forget the consequences of our actions in a post apocalyptic world. Its why the village was burned in the first place, because they were teaching eachother to become cannibals.
I think the boys didn’t explain just how strange Fujimoto is, especially with the incest/ little sister stuff. One of his first One Shots was about 2 sisters who end up drawing each other naked and Fujimotos former Twitter account was one of the most funny WTF moments I’ve ever seen, where he pretends to be his little sister in elementary or middle school and posts about her older brother… he doesn’t have a sister and at some point the account got banned for impersonation, lol
The wild scenes in Fire Punch are there for a good reason, they aren't just shock values. Fire Punch heavily explores the theme of indoctrination, religion, and prescribed identities. Those scenes capture the people's lack of education and primitive views, like their preconception of inherent roles of each gender. Their belief system treats women as child bearers and treats certain group of people as a 'fuel', and fuels have no human rights.
Everyone suffers from the role society has assigned to them. Togata suffers from the pressure to conform to gender role and Agni is also forced to take on many roles; an unlimited food source for the villagers, a hateful avenger, a movie actor, and a god.
The incest scene just sets you up for the upcoming weird relationship between Agni and Judah.
Fire Punch is an excellently written piece and is the series that puts Fujimoto in my top 5 mangaka of all time.
FP= Kino.
The manga delving into sort of, somewhat change and transness (the movie maker) is interesting but I feel at least in how Connor describes it, many readers just don't understand what it's about
The true friend was the incest we read along the way
FINALLY
Someone said what I’ve been saying for years
Itadori is by far the most boring character which is a problem since he’s THE MAIN CHARACTER
Lol when s2 of JJK ended if people told me jjk sucks, i would have been like "what are you smoking" but after reading the manga to the end, people are just better off not investing in the story. The story after this arc becomes absolute dogshit, with horrible pacing, overly complex power system(seriously, you need a phd to understand that shit) and no investment into any character. If you asked someone to read jjk from after shibuya without reading anything before it, you would never know that itadori is the protagonist. They focus on sooo many characters, but, dont flesh out any of them. Watch JJK for the fights, ignore the story. Anime only's will know what im talking about in the later seasons, unless the anime improves the pacing.
what are you yapping about😭
@@jan-ep7lm he is right tho, there are a handful of interesting fights after s2 but overall it sucks after this arc. I think in anime form it will be a lot better than in the manga tho
@@anima94 gojo vs sukuna sukuna vs everyone hakari vs kashimo yuki and choso vs kenjaku yuta vs uro vs ryu maki vs zenin clan. all these fights are at the very least on par with the best fights pre culling games and im prett sure they make up more than half the length of what happens since
@@jan-ep7lm it is the most bloated and dragged out fight in history for sure
@@NeolwA 4 sure bro i definitely know which fight you're talking about
Its hard to see them talk about JJK and the mess that is to come. Such potential, lost to the writer not caring about it and just wanting it to be done.
Its not weird, its a cinematic experience especially when Agni gets to Duma. It makes sense in the context of the world setting since every has been living in a frozen hellscape. No one is normal.
I watch alot of anime manga content so UA-cam constantly recommends me trash taste... I have so many thoughts
It feels so frustrating when huge platforms have the most milk toast opinions as if it's something controversial... Maybe it's cause I'm not following the podcast or that outta the loop but everyone I know praises fujimoto and fire punch ...
What I'm trying to say why do these big platforms exist if they just regurgitate or discuss the most popular or widely accepted takes, authors etc... it feels like adding to the noise ...like why does this exist if I'm not gonna hear anything new or creative?
Fire Punch is WOKE AF and I love it and Fujimoto for exactly that.
No it isn't. Unless having a trans fella in it makes it woke. Which is the kind of take enlightened people such as synthetic man and his kind would have. And for some god forsaken reason ya'll try to prove them right
Woke how?
As long as there's good writing behind it, even "conservatives" can appreciate "wokeness"