Their patterns are switched like you are your own abuser and they are watching and blaming you. Normal patterns are like supporting you in your health after or in these situations and blaming the did to you people. Spiritually it can be unsolved karma by both groups but the difference is big.People who find their rights in the abuse are getting healed,people who watch the scene and blaming the situation on the abuseds are still in their karmas... one reason of the seperation later on.Cause the abuseds can be healed.The abusers and passive watchers are normally not healed as blame is easier and fits better in the society.
I hate the whole " you deserve what you accept" or " you attract what you are" or " if you put up with it that's your fault". These ideas flood social media
And I TELL you where all of that CRAP derives from: From so called "spiritual" movements and "awakened" pseudo psychological life counselors that do not have any scientific background whatsoever. Those and the gurus of such communities regularly develop own "psychological" or "spiritual" causality theories and spread their ideas through their community or via bestseller books. And the WORST about it is, that not only "healers" and "alternative practitioners" jump on that bandwagon, but even approved therapists and psychiatrists. And those are regularly already brainwashed by questionable myths in their field as well as questionable narratives of the pharmaceutical industry anyway. Particularly since the latter is interested in narratives that get their drugs sold. Thus, the problem must lie within the suffering patient and not within another person (abuser) to which they have no access. Apart from the fact that a lot of people in key positions are narcissists themselves who are also way too happy to serve narratives that shift all the blame on the victim. It's nothing less than a catastrophe.
Agreed. Blaming the victim is so prevalent . I've heard all those and more while the Narc wreaked HAVOC in my life , and I hear " Well, YOU Allowed it !" .
I can't stop thinking that they are not worthy because they can't, they do not have the tools. This is the challenge: to understand it, feel compassion for them while holding healthy boundaries not to be hurt again, to protect myself. Am I a hopeless case? 😅 Thank you for your answers. Maybe it's too soon for this, I want and I need to heal. Thanks 🙏
@el567abc It"s understandable to feel that way. Having compassion doesn't mean that you have to associate with them or excuse wrong behaviour. You"re not a hopeless case; it can feel tough sometimes. Keep going. It"s worth it.
“Disdain for your pain” = toxic invalidation. Emotionally bruised people have to be extra careful who they tell their story to. Some people have no tolerance for your pain and their indifference/ dismissiveness can make it worse.
It's sad when you give up your freinds because of the relationship n then you listen to them n try to leave n they say oh it must not have been that bad if u stayed so long. Or they say ya they understand n you try talk n they just say get over it your strong. Or get tired of hearing it.. I feel isolated in April n healing n doing the best I can with my children. It's just hard wen no one really cares.
Yes because the narcissist will lie. I told him a month ago that he pushed me on the bed twice, then poured a bottle of water on me, and my financial papers. He replied that is not so bad ! What a piece of garbage. 😊
Agree. Dr. Rameni does have a video about narcissistic abuse from siblings. There is another excellent therapist who has written books and has many videos out on Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA), Rebecca Mandeville. Rebecca’s was the first book I read on what has happened to me and it helped so much. With the help of a good therapist, I’ve gone NC with my 3 older sisters who all perpetuated the narrative and continued the abuse decades after our mom died. I’m happy to report, I am free to live my life on my terms, no longer begging them to accept me and being subjected to their selfish and entitled behaviors. My life is so much better, I’ve grown, grieved, let go and finally found gratitude for the many, many gifts I’ve been given now at the age of 56.
@@bertan8510 my Narc Mom was very ill two years ago and i already saw my two younger siblings hone in for power grab. They wanted to quickly rush in and take her long held 'position'. My Mom is still very much around but I took that as a wake up call and started the rigorous process of cutting both my siblings out of my life and minimizing communication with my parents as well...
Healing from narcissistic abuse does feel like swimming upstream in a river of societal shame. But what’s worth it is freedom you find after the journey.
Exactly. I've recently come to a new understanding that has enabled me to give other people the space they need, understanding they need, and in return it gives me the understanding I've always needed.
@@emilyf.5 I'm in my late 30s and stopped chasing people years ago. To me, it's not worth the insanity. If you're not interested in me, why should I be interested in you?" Is the way I look at it. I've tried to reach out to other people in my family system, and they all have the same attitude towards. the abuse that the people who actually raised me have and have had in the past.
Dr. Ramani nailed it , going through this now, lucky to have a good friend that has been down this road and understands and encourages me to keep moving forward .
I turned 69 today and I still feel the pain of the torture by my mother and then by my ex husband, and I'm crying. Thank you for validating me. You are the first person I've heard who understands.
Man oh man you are seeing me. I don’t Tell anyone anymore. They look at me like I’m less than . I keep to myself emotionally , enjoy nature , cultivate spirit and have a wonderful pet. It is a rare thing to meet another survivor and Dialogue in a safe way.
Same here. I keep to myself and I do my own thing, but I still have family narcs I can't escape at this time. And when I've had to deal with them again I go here and I see people who go through the same things. It helps keep you sane. It sounds like you've got it together and finding your peace, well done. I'm still way too angry, don't know where to put it sometimes, while it clashes with a lot of other ways I am. But it's getting a bit better every day. At least we know now and we can build from here.
You will find compassion & empathy in the alternative healing arts. Such as with a massage therapist, Reiki Practitioner or someone you may resonate with. Many to choose from! Choose someone who has the wisdoms with the how’s, whys and where the body keeps the score. And help you release the pain and imbalances from such experiences. Blessings and peace to your heart!
Like when no matter what happens to you and how well you have it documented that the narcs are doing open criminal activity and the law enforcement side refuses to do anything because they want to keep classifying things as civil issues so that they don't have to do their jobs.
Widowed people and other grieving people go through something similar. Others who are uncomfortable with the grief tell them to “get over it.” It is profoundly hurtful. As Dr R said: some people just aren’t worthy of you.
Thank you so much for this. This is the most validating thing I've heard in a while - I sobbed through the second half. Making friends after narcissistic abuse feels near impossible sometimes - so many people are "turned off" by the very real experiences that I and many others have had. I want deep connections - and that requires that my history is not "too much" for the person I'm talking to. It's lonely indeed.
I've found it helps when you don't lead with that. I have new groups and acquaintances based on common interests, and that's often only what people (including me) want - pleasant social connections. Only if the friendship goes past that level into sharing life stories would my own experience with abuse come up. I need to get to a level of trust before sharing it, understanding that other people also have their boundaries, and my upsetting story might be one of them.
@@karenk2409 Yes of course, but people lead with questions that do not have a good answer. "Where are you from, why are you here" etc. And the unaware don't know how to handle the answer when it's not a nice answer. Even if I avoid answering the question, that makes me look bad in their eyes. I've thankfully ran into a couple of people lately that have been aware that not everyone has good answers to these things, and I'm so appreciative of them every time.
Yup. No one would believe the adult bullying I received. I am trying to learn from it and move on. Without therapy. Without sharing the details with friends or acquaintances. It's tough. Gaslighted enough by my bullies (narc and flying monkeys) don't need more from bystanders.
So true. 😔 Those who are dismissive of narc survivors and our trauma are *the worst.* I have, before, found myself feeling like I needed to _explain_ myself and _prove_ the validity of my feelings, and the situation; throwing me right back into the same dark hole that the narc previously put me in. It’s an awful, awful feeling.
Yes I have had the same experience although I have been fortunate enough to have a few close relatives who were able to confirm my experience when I finally started talking about it nearly forty years later. Gotta love the idiots who say things like “but it’s your mother”🤮🤢
It's certainly a lesson into not letting what other people think affect us, i.e. not getting our validation from the outside. Sometimes, I think it's the purpose of the whole "lesson"...
Thanks for your comment. My golden child/covert narc sister ( she is a doctor) has reached out to me as she found out I had a surgery...a legit way for her to cross the boundary I have set for her...phew...I get really triggered...and know what you mean...
I've told my story, and heard close family tell me 'but he was so nice'. Invalidating and toxic behavior from close family should not be accepted, I've had enough of toxicity, giving up on family now. 😢
Whenever people ask me about my narc family and I reply with the truth, they feel very uncomfortable about it. "You're so negative" is a phrase I've heard many times.
Negative is what makes society go round, being aware of what will likely happen and making note of it doesn't make you negative for knowing what the outcome will probably be, and voicing it while silently hoping you will slip through that crack and the positive will happen.. it's about feeling the positive and wanting it at the same time as knowing the truth and amount of the negatives that could or will probably happen so you are ready for it and are not blindsided by it because you weren't looking at all of it on both sides..Its called balance and being informed. People hate it when you are right so they call you Debby downer and negative. It doesn't mean that you are that. It means their envy of your level of detail makes them want to make you feel small like they do.
@@aynilaa aah yes! After my last few 'truthful' comments, they are scared to ask. By 'they' I mean my extended family from my Mom's side who has seen her as a great leader and I have seen how she has neglected our childhood, manipulated others, preyed on the needy and generally be a huge embarrassment for me..
When ask about something specific like that, I always reply "do you want the truth or a lie." Either way most of the time they remain quiet after realizing that they asked. Teri Woolum LeFevers.
Narcissist tell everyone a one sided story, but never the truth of how they mistreated you. So of course they side with them. They have no idea of what you went through as they never experienced the kind of abuse a narcissist does. Especially to their significant other.
What bothers me is how so many people only believe the narcs side and not the victim's side despite the victim having massive amounts of hard proof that what the narcs are telling everyone is all big lies built on a little bits of irrelevant truth.
And the best part of it is when you are reprimanded that you have to understand their oh so pitiable condition whereas all you did your whole life from childhood on was that exactly until you understood that all of it was abuse. And to put the cherry on the cake I had to realise that I was labeled the absent oh so busy and successful daughter whereas in reality they left me alone to die in my worst nightmare.
I can’t stand the dismissive toxic positivity invalidating polly-anna’s who act like I’m being ungrateful unforgiving and negative when I tell the truth of what the abusers did and exert healthy boundaries. It’s messed up. So tired of it all. Remembering it’s not me. Prioritizing my life. Seeking safe supports and determining who is worthy of seeing the whole me and who is not. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I've come to the conclusion the more they try to silence me the more I'm going to keep speaking. For myself if for no other reason than to get it out or put it out there for others to find and know they are not alone..if those listening don't leave I mean something to them, if they do leave they got tired of me being my new me and they weren't good for me anyway. If they belittle they let me know to not engage for too long...I will never again stand for silencing or being silenced. I'm done being shut up. Go ahead and hate me, accuse me, belittle me. I'll just respond with neutrality and sweetness and I will respond until I AM DONE. Those who respect me in kind, and stand beside me in conviction will become my new social circle! You don't have to find like friends they will find you if you put yourself out there.
This was absolutely true for me. To take out your support system, then point the finger at your sense of abandonment as ‘emotionally needy and unstable’ is beyond painful.
I find that as I get older and have learned more about narcissism, I have gotten less willing to tell myself that someone in my life is a narcissist, but much more willing to simply conclude they are bad for me, for whatever reason. And because I have dealt with a number of clear narcissists, I now know what to do. I cut them out of my life, whether they are narcissists or not. And when a friend tells me about someone they are dealing with who seems like a narcissist, I tell them that I think that person is a narcissist. And if someone rolls their eyes at me for doing this, I write them off as an enabler.
You got the eye roll down. I actually tried to search for a wrist watch with sound effects, so I could tap a button and add sound effects to the rude listeners eye rolls.
I've decided that even narc's need love and respect..I can do that by recognizing they are what they are, understanding they too need help and support because it is in fact something they can't help on their own. And by voicing that and knowing it for myself while admitting I'm not in a place to be that for them and not blaming them but hoping for better for them instead. Learning to part ways on good terms helps. Keeping distance helps. But being better yourself by not being part of the stigma or falling for and taking the trauma or causing any is best. Learning to love labels is very hard.
Dr. Ramani, thank you for your compassionate witnessing of the many layers of this wound. Being seen in these places helps to melt and integrate the trauma fragments. 💖
As a teenager in a depressive episode, the woman who raised me said, "You can choose to be happy or depressed; it's all in your head." I wanted to tell her, "Walk in my shoes for an hour, then say that," but anything I said was considered'talking back' so I stayed silent.
Your real father and mother is God, not this woman. U r z child of God. Pray for God to bless her and set u free. Soon u ll be free studying in college away from her. I v been there. I m 50 and peaceful now since 17yo when i left Mt family to study
🫂 🌹 Yes, It's often the people doing the abuse or uninterested in our mental health, that throws those kinds of harmful advice at us. They're often the cause of the depression and not the remedy.
It’s a huge relief when you’ve detached emotionally and understand what happened and been away from the abuse for long enough to have regained your calm and be living your life without rumination and hyper vigilance. Yes, we talked too much when we were traumatised and confused and overwhelmed. It’s okay. We learn that most people don’t understand, and some don’t care. But we will be that kind person who listens and validates someone else finding their way out of the mess.
@ yes, and being able to share where we found help in books and on UA-cam. I searched for answers for decades, not knowing what was wrong when I tried so hard, and counsellors misunderstood and did more harm. In my fifties I finally found out about narcissistic abuse and parental alienation and all my questions were answered and I began to heal and learn better ways of managing my emotions and responding to the drama. It can be counterintuitive to anyone who doesn’t know about it and the scapegoat can look like the problem because they’re insecure and the abuser seems self-assured.
“We don’t like stories of mental health that implicate other people”. 💯 “…And definitely don’t like it, when that abuse does not meet some threshold, that society, somehow deems should be met… ….. it has to be bad enough for the general audience to clock it as trauma”. The accumulative daily betrayals, the emotional and relational abuse, are extremely harmful, and very real. However, “we” as a society, want “tidy” mental illness stories!!!! I find this so true, and validating! I have found that even some therapists have this same view. 😢 Thank you Dr. Ramani!!!
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani! You are a god send to this horrible world filled with cruel narcissistic people🙏 I hope one day you win a nobel prize. I’ll be cheering for you.👏👏👏👏😀😀😀😀. I wish you could be my in person therapist. I am also a survivor here.😔
This is exactly why survivors need to write and tell their stories ❤ How freaking dare this jerk say its navel gazing self absorption. It took me 2 yeats after i was in the right mental space to even feel like i had the right to speak about my life and of course i could never do that directly. And yet they'd be like oh my God that is so horrible if it was the narc telling their bs. Eff this crap. "In the stillness of remembering what you had, and what you lost, who says what you had, you know what you lost" - Dreams, Fleetwood Mac, The Dance
There are people out there who will react with relief that they are not so all alone. But there is also a proverb about having to kiss a thousand frogs to find them.
When I finally broke free from years of emotional abuse, I started healing by educating myself through books and UA-cam channels such as yours. I talk about it, not for sympathy but for healing. I can't hold it in anymore. It hurts too much. Thank you for sharing your time and education with people like me.
The key for me is to not share too much with people who don't have a similar background. I have been blessed with several friendships with people who totally get it. I wish everyone had that. Wishing you all healing and love. Everyone deserves a soft place to land!
I’m sure many of these people who blame and shame survivors are narcissists as well. Maybe they’re too afraid of confronting narcissists. Or maybe there’s just something in them that makes them hate victims. Because naturally, victims need attention and support. Victims may often be demanding. And narcissists don’t have anything to give. It reminds me of some of the cases where narcissistic mothers murdered their own children.
A friend told me her mother had murdered her children two of them she also tried to kill herself. The children died she was set free and they had 5 more children. Yes she was a narcissist!
It is the same with bullies. These people telling others, that bullying makes you stronger while completely ignoring the psychology studies proving the bad effects like depression and anxieties in adulthood are the people that bullied others in school and sometimes still bully others in workplaces
Really appreciate this insight. It brings to mind the idea that suffering is a competition. If someone hasn’t suffered enough in egregious ways, then their suffering is invalid.
Understanding that I am not responsible for another's comfort, nor am I in charge of fixing anything for another, were two of the hardest lessons I have learned. Yet, learning this I finally experienced freedom! There are only four people that I will ever share anything deep with (my husband, adult son, & 2 sisters). I trust them and feel safe to hear their perspective knowing I make my own decisions. It's taken many years to experience the freedom to be authentic. Now, I listen to others opinions, however I don't let it interfere with my peace. I just see it as words, while not allowing it to bother me or effect me negatively. Amen
The moment that someone tells me that what I know to be true - isn’t true because they say so - that’s the moment that I question if that denying person is either a narcissist, or an abuser, or both. That’s the moment that I know for sure that the denier has no compassion, and is no longer worthy of any respect from me. The number one rule of thumb to ask your Self is if that denying person is trying to control or manipulate you. It’s a form of victim shaming and victim blaming thrown at you that comes from out of left field under the guise of civil discourse.
Condolences. My older sister (who has been narcissistic) told me that when I was much younger; that I was the kind of person who can't get over things. By "things" she meant severe abuse. We don't have any relationship at all now which I find sad.
I add to the chorus below. Thank you, thank you. Been there, done that. People want you to share when 1) it is totally superficial and 2) when it is easily "fixable". Something I have noticed as a survivor of sexual abuse. As soon as you mention it, you can feel the person emotionally step back.
My experience, exactly! This is why I don't share anything other than superficial, with anyone. No one gets it, and no one has the capacity to hear and understand.
I've listened to someone who shared a very personal abusive experience they went through and because I am an HSP I started crying. It wasn't taken well at all by the person sharing their story-they asked me why I was crying. I said "because it's sad I am sorry this happened to you". I realized afterwards maybe my crying was seen as selfish, despite that not being the intent. It made me feel strange... Like I was questioning whether my emotional response was not appropriate and I definitely felt like next time I should just have a blank expression on my face and block all my emotions inside... Essentially not act natural. What do you make of that? Was my response of crying inappropriate? And showing emotions like crying in such a context is bad? I'm so very confused.
I'm so sorry this happened! I feel your response was natural and completely warranted. The person telling you about their experience may have just not known how to react to your reaction. Particularly if they have shared this experience before and had been dismissed or invalidated. I wouldn't doubt yourself ❤ Thank you for listening to that person that needed you to hear it!
@@kerrawhite444 Thank you for your reply. I find comfort in your words. I will just continue to trust my own emotions... That crying in a situation such as that is ok if it's my normal emotional response. 🙏
I'm grateful for the survivors who have dared to share their stories even at the risk of being invalidated by ignorant comments. You who shared were a lifeline for my sanity because you helped me put an end to invalidating my own experiences! Now having slowly learned to trust in my own reality and to break the chains I am happier now than any time in my life and just want to pay it forward.
My cousins never understood the amount of trauma I have been through. It hurts because my reality keeps being denied even when he was inflicted more pain again. I had to pull away from the whole thing but it made me sad because I didn’t just lose a father, I lost a whole extended family. With my mother & both sets grandparents passed away, there’s no tie to them anymore. It has its freedom but it’s also very lonely. Narcissistic abuse wreaks lives.
I lost my extended family too. It was either a family full of narcissists and flying monkeys or living my life alone. And I chose my life, I feel soo sane.
I think this is common when you go no contact. I'm no contact with my parents for 4ish years, which took about a year before my older sister (the scapegoat) couldn't handle it anymore and I had to go no contact with her and her husband. They wanted ME to apologize for standing up to the narcissist... 😢 I haven't seen any extended family in years, because my parents are at all the family gatherings. Nobody understands, nobody calls to talk, nobody cares. I texted my cousin (old best childhood friend), and after 4 or 5 attempts to meet up, I'm giving up.😢 If it weren't for my wife, I'd be very lonely.
@@TheRealMonnie I'm going through this very thing. I reached out to a brother to try to talk about serious issues and just got a huge long bullet-pointed email about how horrible I am. This is a brother who has taken the side of my covert narcissist mother and her overt narc husband (both violent crybullies) in the past so I should have probably known better. But I also fear that maybe my brother is a narc like his parents are. I haven't seen any family at all for the past four years and not a soul reaches out, and apparently as my brother hurtfully described it, 'they all talk about what to do with me since I'm so difficult to talk to.' Y'all, I'm not difficult to talk to. I am someone who stands by the Truth though and narcs seem to really hate that. I'm happy you have a loving partner. 🥂
What I often see in therapy are educated people who struggle with relationships, due to their past experiences and feel pressured to meet the standards of society and science who ironically and at times abusively, push that "wired for connection" moto. People who genuinely try to do their best for themselves and for their loved ones, end up feeling "less than" when they don't succeed in their social or personal life. They usually shift the blame to themselves, and their old wounds are bleeding again and again.
I was told to "stop wallowing in self-pity" by my best friend and she told me to instead "just be happy for other people who have it better than you," "Choose to be happy," "Your past has no influence on who you choose to be now, you're the one choosing to be miserable and anxious," etc.
Oh, and the good thing about being honest is that you can genuinely assess how you were damaged, because you can understand yourself clearly. This allows you to actually resolve your issues. Playing into this philosophy of hers risks your identity on the sunk costs fallacy. It will be harder to drop the act once you've kept it up, because then you have to take accountability for halting your own progress. That's unlikely. Accountability is rare enough. Sorry for the double text. Hope this helped. ❤
No fucking kidding! It's easy for her to say. Having my sister tell me "There there, it wasn't so bad, it was in the past, you can move on now" the abuse l endured for 15 years+ of my life when she and my brother were clearly treated much better than me!--I was the family scapegoat.
5:01 Yep! When I cautiously let an old "friend" who'd let me down into my life again on a trial basis because she'd been to therapy and seemed to have grown, she talked at length about her current problems and the ongoing impact of her troubled childhood. I gave her empathy and compassion. When **I** talked about similar things, I got window dressing like "you're entitled to your feelings" but also her same old judgmental messages that I'm supposedly too sensitive, interpret things wrong, and am LETTING myself stay trapped in the past (as if CPTSD is a choice!). Hypocrisy much!? 🧐🙄 Byeee! I'm SO GLAD I've done the work to be able to recognize toxic people in ways I couldn't before and LET THEM GO! 😃🍀❤ *THANK YOU, Dr. Ramani!!!* ❤
Dr. R, I want you to know you are a blessing to this world. I found you on UA-cam about six years ago and you have helped me with my healing immeasurably. I am 62. I have a narcissistic father and did not have a clue that I was being emotionally and psychologically abused until my early 40s. How would I? It was all I'd ever known and everyone on the outside adored my dad. I finally broke down after another short term romance failed and found a therapist who enlightened me and forever changed my life. Im still healing, but am a completely different person now...more of the person I was always meant to be. Your videos have filled in the gaps, explained the nuances, furthered my understanding and most importantly, made me feel seen and heard and to understand I'm not the problem or the crazy one. I just wanted you to know the impact you have had in this world and that you are truly needed.
Yup. I was encouraged to leave my abusive ex not when I described how I was treated but instead it was when he went down the Rogan rabbit hole and bought ivermectin. My coworkers who came to my office to complain about our narc boss and the hostile work environment and our union who only focused on the professional staff instead of also us support staff wanted nothing to do with me when I had no choice but report forgeries that weren't being addressed in house. I also filed a complaint about my union to the labor relations board. During my unfortunately ultimately useless fight, even friends who weren't from my work avoided me because it made them uncomfortable to hear about what was going on with me. With everything I lost, I don't regret the people who showed their true colors during this time no longer being in my life. I finally went no contact with several family members whose breadcrumbs I had made meals out of my whole life. My world is incredibly small now, basically just me and I'm okay with that. I've been clay for others to mold as they wish my whole life so this is a great opportunity to really get to know myself and what I actually like and think- especially about myself.
"whose breadcrumbs I had made meals out of my whole life". Wow, that hit my heart like a thunderbolt. With that one phrase, you illuminated and encapsulated relationships that I've needed to end! No more breadcrumbs masquerading as banquets for me! Thank you.
LOVE this: "My world is incredibly small now, basically just me and I'm okay with that. I've been clay for others to mold as they wish my whole life so this is a great opportunity to really get to know myself and what I actually like and think- especially about myself." 👏👏 Yay! In retrospect, I woke up to myself when my social circle shrank and I never connected the two before. Knowing and liking myself for the first time in my life is 100% worth my lost ILLUSIONS about those people. And now I have the discernment, self-love, and comfort enforcing boundaries to risk letting GOOD people in. That's a win-win, not the tragedy I sometimes feel about losing so many people. *THANK YOU for this helpful reframe!* 😃❤
Didn't the government retract their dismissal of ivermectin recently? Not saying to go listen to Rogan, just genuinely asking. Myself, since having used it on my livestock for years, it does what it does and does it well. Doses are by weight, and have even used it to treat parasites on chickens. (Cause that's the recommended use as well, you can buy different types) Sorry you went through a lot. Did you learn anything positive from it? Like how you and the exe had grown apart and weren't compatible/toxic tailspin? Or that you did have the intestinal fortitude to stick with an ethical decision and survive the fallout? Hopefully this opens different doors on your path, and you can allow better things into your path ❤
One of my friends grew up in a religious cult and it's so nice to have someone you can casually mention messed up childhood stuff and mental health problems and we can just laugh about it instead of the other person getting all weird.
Dr. Ramani, your insights, compassion, and transparency are life-altering. Thank you so much for your work. You are making a difference for so many of us.
Dr. Ramani, thank you for sharing this. I know it reached so many people. People was feeling stuck and discouraged, second-guessing everything all over again… there will always be times of feeling “weakness”, aka taking 3 steps back after spending years taking 2 steps forward…and that’s okay. Thankful for your videos the last almost decade, and getting back to the channel. I’m thankful to be re-watching your videos.
Thank you for this video. You expressed what I have been feeling for 35 years very well. I have had numerous therapists and it would take months for 5 out of 6 of them to grasp much less validate. Only one validated and furthermore she explained to me how I grew as basically a small satellite to my parents planet and then the sexual and mental and verbal abuse was just the icing I have given up making new friends. I just keep it light and social but minimal now. I have raised my sons as a single mother and they are grown and doing very well so far emotionally and mentally. I am not interested in dating anymore. I would rather be quiet and validate myself than face further sneers and disdain since I get them every day from my mother. I don’t feel bitter. I feel sad and exhausted by people. I’m staying in my own lane and looking for a quiet life in the mountains and some travel to go see the whales. For some reason I find seeing whales the most captivating and beautiful thing.
Yes. It's tough enough for someone traumatized to seek out and ask for help. It's even worse, when they are met with either disinterested concern and zero assistance or made to feel they are being unreasonable or overly emotional.
2:50 yeah, I’ve always said to myself that what I went through didn’t count as abuse because it “wasn’t bad enough”. Or that there’s no way I could have trauma because it wasn’t “a traumatic enough” experience.
I was beaten, drowned, choked, burnt and r*ped for 38 years (first violence was done to my body at 4 months old, I cannot even remember), my body is covered with scars and even I am told "to move on" or "just because you were r*ped"... "Nobody forced you to marry him" "You signed that contract" Society and how people react are worse than abuse itself. I am 40 and my life expectancy is 58 due to all the violence. And then people wonder why I am depressed and have no hope for my future. My future. Means less then 20 years. I am severely bulimic and hurt my southern part every night because I am used to mutilation and abuse and torture. And all I can hear is: Its your fault. You "picked" him.
@ ugh, yeah I got a lot of “you could’ve left”. What hurts me the most is when my parents said “you should’ve listened to us”, because they ended up being right about him and kept telling me to leave him- which obviously I didn’t for a while. They very much implied (and maybe outright said, this was a while ago) that I chose him over them. Which they’re not wrong but, idk everything he said made sense to me somehow. Then they told me after a while that I needed to get over it. Sometimes the comments hurt just as bad
Yes, the narcs love to come to channels such as this and make their ridiculous comments! I have seen it here, and other other narc abuse recovery channels. Most of the time I ignore them, but once in a while I can't help myself, and I respond back! I usually regret it, though.
Sure. My ex narc does this... as she's been doing a dirty long smear campaing trying to destroy me, many crimes, so she kept coming all groups on narc learning working to keep her facade and crimes hiden and twisted... and as she spread edited intimacy pics to many people and social media calling me as a predator or such, I decided to do something other than just to stay away/no contact, and only since then, after I started to show also picts of her (in the lovebombing phase) she (and/or her flying monķeys) became less encouraged ...!
People who do this … I just don’t see how they have so much time on their hands! Don’t they have anything better to do than put down people who they don’t know and don’t care about? Guess not.
Careful not to speak your mind on them, YT may ban your comments for hate speech lol. My other account just got hit for educating on terminology for such people
People who respond like that have not dealt with their own trauma and literally run away and suppress their own feelings. So of course they would not have empathy for others, they dont hold empathy for themselves. We see how society via movies, social media, celebrities, toxic workplace and power hungry bosses, elevate and enable people like narcs and others on the dark triad. So its good that some of us are becoming more aware and changing the narrative by having open adult conversations about it.
Wow this is exactly what I'm going through right now. Your content is so on point Doc! Thank you for making me feel heard and seen, safe and validated. ❤❤❤
Maybe more people would figure out the truth earlier, I was scapegoated as a child and alienated from my children after divorcing my narcissistic husband- and was gaslit to believe it was all my fault, my children still believe the lies and manipulation 😞 so devastating- thank you for all your work 🙏
I have and continue to experience of divorcing an narcissist who was awarded sole custody, in getting away with accusing me of parental alienation for the children being scared of him and fighting not go every time (50/50 custody court order to begin with that never worked for the children) they were made to be with him. He then 'legally' got to truly and completely alienate me over the many years they were completely cut off from me, their parent they felt safe and secure with, cared for and loved by. Now all three sons have gone no contact with me and blocked me for having talked a little bit about what actually happened, how afraid they were of him and begged not to go and what they said was happening when they were with him, which I did try to protect them from. Instead they were cut off from me who they trusted. Now they perceive me as the narcissist, one is spending tens of thousands of dollars with therapist Dr. Ross Rosenberg, who has been instrumental in my son no longer speaking, seeing or communicating with me. It's unreal, that he has not helped my son explore how it felt losing his mom from his life overnight when he was only 9 years old and understood how abandoned my son was made to feel by that cruel court order which his dad used as a club to constantly threaten them with. Dr. Ramani is one of the very few who actually gets all aspects of narcissist abuse, even though many of the other experts producing content and writing books on the subject are missing what is being done to the children and the effects on adult children who were forced to live with and have the narcissist as their only parent and role model.
Michele I want to thank you for your comment... The same exact thing happened to me.... And I'm going through it now and it's incredibly painful and people don't understand. I don't think they really even want to know so I don't bother to share it with a lot of people. But your comment makes me know that I'm not alone. Thank you for that. 🤍
@@tonymartos2922 You’re not a fool. But I felt that way too, until I realized I trusted, believed, gave the benefit of the doubt etc, because that’s a reflection of who I am. It’s easy to trick someone who doesn’t know a game is being played. Now that you know act accordingly. Once you see it you can’t unsee it. Give yourself the same grace, compassion and kindness you showed them. You are not foolish, you’re probably a good person who couldn’t comprehend that someone who said they loved you could be so devious and malicious. At least that was my story. Forgive yourself.
In my experience, feeling like a fool is a part of narcissistic abuse. They are always superior to you, you feel dumb/incapable. They gaslight, blame and behave as you are the problem (at any type of conflict, regardless you make a mistake etc.): so you find yourself thinking of yourself, your shortcomings, which everyone has. You think about what you do and so on. So your attention is diverted from them to you. You can feel like the worst person ever when they shame you, treat you badly. As you feel that, shame is projected on to you and you become paralyzed. You can't take a step back and look at how they're treating you. They blind you, in multiple ways: love bombing, gaslighting, invalidating your reality/experiences, crazy making, inflicting their toxic shame into you. And they feel joy in positioning the other as a fool, when the other person actually only trusted, loved, treated them as humans, gave them chances, and wanted and made efforts to make the relationship better, wanted the good times with them. They want you to feel, think lesser of yourself, it makes them feel superior, they get their narcissistic supply. I used "you" but I am talking about me. As cringy it may sound but being compassionate towards myself helped me have a better relationship with myself. I mean I still experience feeling like a fool quite a bit, being compassionate with myself takes the weight of their mean voice off at least. My narcissistic parents usually downplayed values like compassion, care, and praised qualities like being intelligent, getting higher education etc. so much that it feels inferior to feel like a fool. My mom even made me take an IQ test when I was a child just because I was slow in my movements. I was probably a bit depressed or afraid to make a mistake so I slowed down. Now I ask myself on the inside: what if being a fool isn't that inferior? What if other qualities are more important?
Well Dr Ramani has also fallen for it. Many intelligent, incredible people have. And if you grew up around any toxic behavior or people high in narcissist traits then you are attracted to what feels familiar not just familiar but it’s natures way of working through your trauma. It’s understandable and unfortunately sometimes necessary
I was just recently trying to get help for codependency online by reading articles and watching videos and in the comments were some of the most hateful and harsh words said about people struggling with codependency. I won’t repeat what was said but it was unbelievable. And it was a lot of people.
I sought help and support over and over again. I endured gaslightng, blameshifting, character criticism, personality critiques, namecalling, etc. I wasted 32 years of my life with a narc husband and M.I.L with their own sick story of covert incest (that I didn't know existed) who lied and judged and humiliated me as much as they could. I finally got out. And I was set adrift socially and vocationally. People were happy to make things up about me and believe it, but they wouldn't touch the truth about him or his mother. I have a new life now. It amazing what you can do with your life when you are free from your abusers and those who blame you for it. I am living a life of freedom, creativity, meaningful work, love, laughter, growth and joy that I never knew was possible. I found friends--real friends and great colleagues who respect and care for me as I do for them. It's never too late to leave. It's never too late to start over. It's never too late to love your one precious life enough to remove it from those who don't deserve to be near it.
One of your best and most important videos. Thank you. I've been through the abuse. It's just cruel. A nightmare of the worst kind. The subtle or less subtle dismissal by inlaws or relatives is painful and highly discouraging. A friend who listens without judgement is such a blessing. It can save you from going insane. One other thing that helps me a lot is letting go of anger and instead learn to show compassion. Some people just don't understand. Having compassion and patience with them helps me from becoming bitter. ❤ At some point in your life you have to accept what happened and find a way to take things lightly and with some humor again. That's not to dismiss any of the insanity you had to endure, but it's a way for you to slowly get your life back. 👊
Dr. Ramani: Thank you so much for the reminders! I think a lot of narc survivors will agree with me that in some ways we are like recovering alcoholics and need to get a boost of reminders now and then to keep us from going back into default mode. And the oversharing and undersharing was particularly helpful. I don't think I ever fully recognized that issue in the front part of my brain and consciousness. Again, thank you, thank you!😊
My narcissistic abuse by my ex husband was outright mocked by the woman who calls herself my “best friend” because she has been the victim of domestic violence and believes I am co-opting her story for attention and “coolness points.” (Direct quote on that last one.) I just stopped telling her stuff.
So, only she can be the victim, or victimized? Maybe she needs all the attention and all the empathy? I would walk slowly towards the door and then run. This is not a friend.
@@Sweetpea-2023 oh she loves playing the victim. Actually it’s her treatment of me that led me to this channel/community because she is a narcissist herself. I am trying to work through my issues from my marriage as well as a 22-year complex female friendship.
@@christinelamb1167 I would love to be able to send her packing. She is a narcissist herself, and I have given her slack for 22 years because her abusive upbringing has left her with C-PTSD and addiction issues, and I admit I pity her. Also, she can do some damage to my life so I have some fears about leaving the friendship.
10000 % accurate. I grew up with a narcissistic mom, my elder sister being the golden child and least rebellious always supports mom and I'm the ungrateful daughter.
I’m so glad that you’re bringing this to our attention. There are so many toxic people out there hurting people who cry out for genuine help from narcissistic abuse especially in the comments as you say. I’ve experienced it myself & left groups because of it. Thank you! 💞🌎
Thank you for this video. I wrote an allegorical fable and some poetry, to try and put into words some of what it feels like to live with the complex trauma that results from long term narcissistic abuse. I got so many eye rolls that I haven't published any more. Not yet, anyway. But your encouragement reminds me that this is not a one size fits all kind of journey. That healing takes time, comes in stages, and is part of the beauty that is becoming. Thank you.
Thank you so much for discussing this critical topic with us. Self-respect and self-love are my guards against dismissiveness. I am blessed with very few friends, and they are all true gems and close to my heart.
Some don't want that conversation. It is hard to find a balanced friend who does not yoyo you sometimes. Flip flopping on empathy or selective empathy, you are right Doc. "It makes them unworthy of seeing the real you." Dr. Ramani. Love is: Just sitting with someone who needs you.
I think I agree with you. I watched this story the other day which was about a woman who went out with a serial killer and when it came to putting him in prison, she was scared and she was lectured at why wouldn't you want him to go in prison. Then when she was treated badly in court by the barrister, she was told to 'let it go'. Where was the bit where it was understood that it would be terrifying for her to go to court, and when she was humiliated in court that she would want to complain about that. It seemed to me that the physical abuse was one thing, but the emotional and psychological abuse was exacerbated by the lack of support from society. I think that is what you're talking about. This was an extreme case, but I think it rings true for everyone that emotional and psychological abuse are exacerbated by society's lack of support.
I have few friends, and few of them understand. I have mostly quit reaching out. Even the nicest often only wants good news, happy happy happy, toxic positivity. The not so nice, hoo boy. As one dear friend said, "That's just not right," as if that fixes it. I learned to say nothing about what I now hear called CPTSD.
My brain always tells me not to read the comments, but I feel compelled to. Bullies are rampant online, and people will disagree with you and say the most unhinged things just to get a reaction. Sometimes, I fall into the trap because of my moral values. Statistics show most abuse and unalivings is familial or someone we are dating or married to. My doom scrolling is true crime. 😢
Thankful my friends and family aren’t like this. Of course the narcissist accuses me of being the abuser, which can contribute to society being confused who is actually the disordered person. But I have psych evals now. It’s not me!
I just wanted to say that it really would‘ve been a good message if your book was on there too! I‘m doing an internship in Portugal (I‘m a psych student) and I visited a very small unknown town. In the town was a little library where students learned. There were a few books in Portuguese to buy. I was soooo happy to saw your book „It’s not you“ lying there! It was in Portuguese but I could detect it because of the cover. I would’ve never expected it there because it‘s not a comercial shop with many new books, but you could buy it there. Even if there are jerks on a daily level, your message is studies around the world as I write this. Unfortunately we encounter many jerks on a daily basis but I think they are the ones who feel threatened because they start to recognize that the dynamics can change and people are being provided with tools to leave the abusers. They don‘t like that and talk it down but they cannot stop the knowledge that keeps being shared over and over. You seem like a modest human being so I don‘t think you are very proud of yourself but you really should be!
So true! I've always been super validating of people's pain and it just came naturally to me. The moment I had to endure mobbing at my previous job and was insanely confused someone responds with "I had nothing but toxic jobs". I thought she was a friend until that moment. She doesn't even realise how absurd her responses are. It's only natural to show empathy when someone shares something sad with you. These mean fake snakes don't know how lost they are. 😫
Thank you Dr. Ramani. This is true. Having been a subject of narcissistic ritualistic abuse before, I was being taken advantage of as though not having rights. It is the worst form of abuse. It is astounding to me in modern society this abuse goes on. There needs to be regulatory controls to protect individual rights so that individuals do not get caught in a vortex of narcissistic abuse.
Nail on head again Dr Ramani!!! Thanks. You can FEEL it falls on deaf ears, they don't do deep heartfelt responses. It took 20 years of this until I spoke to one canny old bird over the garden gate. She listened then she uttered 4 words which indicated to me she was actively listening. Those 4 words 'STREET ANGEL - HOUSE DEVIL.' was an expression I'd never heard before at the time but totally encapsulated the whole situation around my narcissistic ex-husband. Boy was I relieved. You do the same in your videos, you VALIDATE those of us out here trying to get to the bottom of this nonsense, which is all it is.... toxic nonsense, like the woke brigade LOL. Thank you for all that you do for all of us out here. God bless. xxx
@@katrinasmith3875 LOL.... thanks for your kind comment. 20 years!!! 20 years!! *I'd spoken to relatives, friends, the doctor, strangers, neighbours and the little old gal over the garden gate was some random person walking past the house. When the time is right I suppose. It is OK that some don't get it, it has to be, I don't believe we can take pole position and actually press them to change. Because (like a seed germinating) it has to come from inside them, that's the source - not information being clagged on from the outside! LOL It's an inner awareness/authenticity/honesty and unfolding of emotions - as you well know - followed by increasing spirituality all done with humility for the process. Life will do this to them if it's meant to be. I tend to answer genuine people's curiosity (when they have come to me) but I would never try and approach someone. I just humbly answer their questions IF I sense they're authentic in their questioning. Good luck and God bless on your journey through life. xxx
I got away from a narcissistic friend who treated me exactly like this after I finally got out of a narcissistic abusive relationship. She told me, "only pick one person to talk about this with, you always make everything about yourself." It's been four years since I last spoke to them, couldn't be happier!
the toxic shaming from these types, makes me think they also have intense internalized shame. I pity them that they still, after all these years, have to put people down to feed their fragile egos. I think the world is one big giant shame bucket and not many safe ones out there. It's scary.
You could be right and I think the people who say these things are narcs themselves. They lack empathy, so that's why they say insensitive, dismissive things. I see experiences like that as a sign that's a person to not talk to. Maybe about the weather, if you have no choice, but not more than that.
I learned long ago to not share abuse inflicted by other people to friends or family. Most of the time it’s safer, especially if dealing with a covert narcissist. Lots of silent endurance at times.😢
My siblings (the narcissists) are the ones who shamed me when I tried "Talking it out" with them. You just can't teach toxic ppl how to be respectful or kind.
People can only hold space for others at the depth they've held space for themselves. Most people haven't done their work and perpetuate emotional neglect. They're emotionally shallow.
Relationships often face challenges, but there’s always a way to move forward. My marriage had its share of significant problems, but with the right help, my wife and I managed to resolve them and strengthen our relationship. Solutions are available if you’re willing to put in the effort and collaborate. Keep hope alive-answers are possible.
I’m struggling with serious issues in my relationship and can’t bear the thought of losing her. My love and desire to have her back in my life are immense. I’m willing to do whatever it takes and would be very grateful for any guidance or suggestions.
I'm thankful for this guidance. I'll immediately search for her online. I appreciate it. I'm hopeful that adopting this strategy will also bring about positive changes for me; I miss her deeply.
Just to be clear, this video is talking about relationships that are filled with outright abuse. Abuse is not "problems". Glad you two benefited from therapy, but Dr. Ramani is talking about something much darker and deeper.
@@Westernwilson Well in my case I did have to cut my inlaws out of my life due to MNism, but did you know that experts say that can improve your marriage? It's too bad though, as they are wonderful in many ways, but there's that abuse factor I just can't abide by, and there are problems like this with my spouse but I have found we can actually work on it and get somewhere more positive. I also had to cut off connection with my own family and friends because of MNness. I came to this channel already well-versed in it.
This video was so well said and came to me at such an opportune time. I am very much struggling with the dismissive comments made by my “friends” who still believe that my soon to be ex narc husband is very “mentally ill” amd suffers from depression. They say I should not call him a narcissist since I’m no expert and all they knew was a this great guy! Man..,these comments are so hard and make me feel abused all over again. Thank goodness I do have many other friends that support me and there is no judgment from them. Trying to set boundaries with some, but find it challenging since I take everything so personally and am such a codependent person trying to please everyone.
It's like childhood trauma; you get blamed for what people did to you.
Narcissistic abuse can be childhood trauma. It is for me. Only it's lasted my entire childhood and adulthood. 31.5 year so far, and going strong.
Their patterns are switched like you are your own abuser and they are watching and blaming you.
Normal patterns are like supporting you in your health after or in these situations and blaming the did to you people.
Spiritually it can be unsolved karma by both groups but the difference is big.People who find their rights in the abuse are getting healed,people who watch the scene and blaming the situation on the abuseds are still in their karmas... one reason of the seperation later on.Cause the abuseds can be healed.The abusers and passive watchers are normally not healed as blame is easier and fits better in the society.
That's exactly what they're doing. If someone does that, leave. They aren't worth what you have to offer. Victim blaming is the worst
Omg so true. It's the worst 'irony'
By your narcissistic therapist! At least mine did. She was a sick twisted woman.
I hate the whole " you deserve what you accept" or " you attract what you are" or " if you put up with it that's your fault". These ideas flood social media
It’s a horrible message to send kids … who most of the time don’t have a choice
And I TELL you where all of that CRAP derives from: From so called "spiritual" movements and "awakened" pseudo psychological life counselors that do not have any scientific background whatsoever. Those and the gurus of such communities regularly develop own "psychological" or "spiritual" causality theories and spread their ideas through their community or via bestseller books. And the WORST about it is, that not only "healers" and "alternative practitioners" jump on that bandwagon, but even approved therapists and psychiatrists. And those are regularly already brainwashed by questionable myths in their field as well as questionable narratives of the pharmaceutical industry anyway. Particularly since the latter is interested in narratives that get their drugs sold. Thus, the problem must lie within the suffering patient and not within another person (abuser) to which they have no access. Apart from the fact that a lot of people in key positions are narcissists themselves who are also way too happy to serve narratives that shift all the blame on the victim. It's nothing less than a catastrophe.
Yes. The other thing ppl get accused of is having a 'victim mentality'. Makes me so angry when someone has been brave enough to open up
Agreed. Blaming the victim is so prevalent . I've heard all those and more while the Narc wreaked HAVOC in my life , and I hear " Well, YOU Allowed it !" .
Does anyone see my other comment? Or is good old censorship on "duty" again? Also a form of gaslighting.
"Some people aren"t worthy of seeing the whole you. And that, is their loss." I loved this final statement. 💜
Yes.🧡
Me too 💜
My final truth as well.❤
I can't stop thinking that they are not worthy because they can't, they do not have the tools.
This is the challenge: to understand it, feel compassion for them while holding healthy boundaries not to be hurt again, to protect myself.
Am I a hopeless case? 😅
Thank you for your answers.
Maybe it's too soon for this, I want and I need to heal. Thanks 🙏
@el567abc It"s understandable to feel that way. Having compassion doesn't mean that you have to associate with them or excuse wrong behaviour. You"re not a hopeless case; it can feel tough sometimes. Keep going. It"s worth it.
“Disdain for your pain” = toxic invalidation. Emotionally bruised people have to be extra careful who they tell their story to. Some people have no tolerance for your pain and their indifference/ dismissiveness can make it worse.
@@May54321 and it's worse when family of origin treat you this way..
@@earthrooster1969 Or doctors.
The abused are isolated. I know cause I am experiencing it now
It's sad when you give up your freinds because of the relationship n then you listen to them n try to leave n they say oh it must not have been that bad if u stayed so long. Or they say ya they understand n you try talk n they just say get over it your strong. Or get tired of hearing it.. I feel isolated in April n healing n doing the best I can with my children. It's just hard wen no one really cares.
Yes because the narcissist will lie. I told him a month ago that he pushed me on the bed twice, then poured a bottle of water on me, and my financial papers. He replied that is not so bad ! What a piece of garbage. 😊
There is not enough being said about sibling abuse. Trickled down from a parent, through a sibling that continues life long
Agree. Dr. Rameni does have a video about narcissistic abuse from siblings. There is another excellent therapist who has written books and has many videos out on Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA), Rebecca Mandeville. Rebecca’s was the first book I read on what has happened to me and it helped so much. With the help of a good therapist, I’ve gone NC with my 3 older sisters who all perpetuated the narrative and continued the abuse decades after our mom died. I’m happy to report, I am free to live my life on my terms, no longer begging them to accept me and being subjected to their selfish and entitled behaviors. My life is so much better, I’ve grown, grieved, let go and finally found gratitude for the many, many gifts I’ve been given now at the age of 56.
@@bertan8510 my Narc Mom was very ill two years ago and i already saw my two younger siblings hone in for power grab. They wanted to quickly rush in and take her long held 'position'. My Mom is still very much around but I took that as a wake up call and started the rigorous process of cutting both my siblings out of my life and minimizing communication with my parents as well...
Yes.. so true.
It's horrifying when you don't see it and then they attack.
Definitely. My mom and sister were my first bullies.
Healing from narcissistic abuse does feel like swimming upstream in a river of societal shame. But what’s worth it is freedom you find after the journey.
Exactly. I've recently come to a new understanding that has enabled me to give other people the space they need, understanding they need, and in return it gives me the understanding I've always needed.
@@emilyf.5 I'm in my late 30s and stopped chasing people years ago. To me, it's not worth the insanity. If you're not interested in me, why should I be interested in you?" Is the way I look at it. I've tried to reach out to other people in my family system, and they all have the same attitude towards. the abuse that the people who actually raised me have and have had in the past.
Dr. Ramani nailed it , going through this now, lucky to have a good friend that has been down this road and understands and encourages me to keep moving forward .
@@vintagesilver3766 You can do it. Just keep your head up, and walk proud.
Yes, yes, & yes
I turned 69 today and I still feel the pain of the torture by my mother and then by my ex husband, and I'm crying. Thank you for validating me. You are the first person I've heard who understands.
Man oh man you are seeing me. I don’t
Tell anyone anymore. They look at me like I’m less than . I keep to myself emotionally , enjoy nature , cultivate spirit and have a wonderful pet. It is a rare thing to meet another survivor and Dialogue in a safe way.
Same here. I keep to myself and I do my own thing, but I still have family narcs I can't escape at this time. And when I've had to deal with them again I go here and I see people who go through the same things. It helps keep you sane. It sounds like you've got it together and finding your peace, well done. I'm still way too angry, don't know where to put it sometimes, while it clashes with a lot of other ways I am. But it's getting a bit better every day. At least we know now and we can build from here.
You will find compassion & empathy in the alternative healing arts.
Such as with a massage therapist, Reiki Practitioner or someone you may resonate with. Many to choose from!
Choose someone who has the wisdoms with the how’s, whys and where the body keeps the score. And help you release the pain and imbalances from such experiences.
Blessings and peace to your heart!
This sounds like my story.
What is even more disturbing is when law enforcement adopts this very same attitude.
It's just terrifying 💔
Like when no matter what happens to you and how well you have it documented that the narcs are doing open criminal activity and the law enforcement side refuses to do anything because they want to keep classifying things as civil issues so that they don't have to do their jobs.
And the family court
CEnsored again.
Cause it's abusive system built by abusers
Widowed people and other grieving people go through something similar. Others who are uncomfortable with the grief tell them to “get over it.” It is profoundly hurtful. As Dr R said: some people just aren’t worthy of you.
Thank you so much for this. This is the most validating thing I've heard in a while - I sobbed through the second half. Making friends after narcissistic abuse feels near impossible sometimes - so many people are "turned off" by the very real experiences that I and many others have had. I want deep connections - and that requires that my history is not "too much" for the person I'm talking to. It's lonely indeed.
I've found it helps when you don't lead with that. I have new groups and acquaintances based on common interests, and that's often only what people (including me) want - pleasant social connections. Only if the friendship goes past that level into sharing life stories would my own experience with abuse come up. I need to get to a level of trust before sharing it, understanding that other people also have their boundaries, and my upsetting story might be one of them.
@@karenk2409 Yes of course, but people lead with questions that do not have a good answer. "Where are you from, why are you here" etc. And the unaware don't know how to handle the answer when it's not a nice answer. Even if I avoid answering the question, that makes me look bad in their eyes.
I've thankfully ran into a couple of people lately that have been aware that not everyone has good answers to these things, and I'm so appreciative of them every time.
@@karenk2409 That is such a lovely and thoughtful answer and very good advice.
Yup. No one would believe the adult bullying I received. I am trying to learn from it and move on. Without therapy. Without sharing the details with friends or acquaintances. It's tough. Gaslighted enough by my bullies (narc and flying monkeys) don't need more from bystanders.
So true. 😔 Those who are dismissive of narc survivors and our trauma are *the worst.* I have, before, found myself feeling like I needed to _explain_ myself and _prove_ the validity of my feelings, and the situation; throwing me right back into the same dark hole that the narc previously put me in. It’s an awful, awful feeling.
Yes, to be invalidated can feel even worse than not sharing at all! 😒
No one deserves that. And I can relate. I used to explain my whole life away and I drastically cut back on that.
Yes I have had the same experience although I have been fortunate enough to have a few close relatives who were able to confirm my experience when I finally started talking about it nearly forty years later. Gotta love the idiots who say things like “but it’s your mother”🤮🤢
It's certainly a lesson into not letting what other people think affect us, i.e. not getting our validation from the outside. Sometimes, I think it's the purpose of the whole "lesson"...
Thanks for your comment. My golden child/covert narc sister ( she is a doctor) has reached out to me as she found out I had a surgery...a legit way for her to cross the boundary I have set for her...phew...I get really triggered...and know what you mean...
I've told my story, and heard close family tell me 'but he was so nice'. Invalidating and toxic behavior from close family should not be accepted, I've had enough of toxicity, giving up on family now. 😢
Whenever people ask me about my narc family and I reply with the truth, they feel very uncomfortable about it. "You're so negative" is a phrase I've heard many times.
Negative is what makes society go round, being aware of what will likely happen and making note of it doesn't make you negative for knowing what the outcome will probably be, and voicing it while silently hoping you will slip through that crack and the positive will happen.. it's about feeling the positive and wanting it at the same time as knowing the truth and amount of the negatives that could or will probably happen so you are ready for it and are not blindsided by it because you weren't looking at all of it on both sides..Its called balance and being informed. People hate it when you are right so they call you Debby downer and negative. It doesn't mean that you are that. It means their envy of your level of detail makes them want to make you feel small like they do.
keep giving them that undiluted truth, its the only way things might change
@@aynilaa aah yes! After my last few 'truthful' comments, they are scared to ask. By 'they' I mean my extended family from my Mom's side who has seen her as a great leader and I have seen how she has neglected our childhood, manipulated others, preyed on the needy and generally be a huge embarrassment for me..
When ask about something specific like that, I always reply "do you want the truth or a lie." Either way most of the time they remain quiet after realizing that they asked. Teri Woolum LeFevers.
Narcissist tell everyone a one sided story, but never the truth of how they mistreated you. So of course they side with them. They have no idea of what you went through as they never experienced the kind of abuse a narcissist does. Especially to their significant other.
It’s true.
What bothers me is how so many people only believe the narcs side and not the victim's side despite the victim having massive amounts of hard proof that what the narcs are telling everyone is all big lies built on a little bits of irrelevant truth.
And the best part of it is when you are reprimanded that you have to understand their oh so pitiable condition whereas all you did your whole life from childhood on was that exactly until you understood that all of it was abuse. And to put the cherry on the cake I had to realise that I was labeled the absent oh so busy and successful daughter whereas in reality they left me alone to die in my worst nightmare.
Censored for commenting here as well.
I can’t stand the dismissive toxic positivity invalidating polly-anna’s who act like I’m being ungrateful unforgiving and negative when I tell the truth of what the abusers did and exert healthy boundaries. It’s messed up. So tired of it all. Remembering it’s not me. Prioritizing my life. Seeking safe supports and determining who is worthy of seeing the whole me and who is not. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I've come to the conclusion the more they try to silence me the more I'm going to keep speaking. For myself if for no other reason than to get it out or put it out there for others to find and know they are not alone..if those listening don't leave I mean something to them, if they do leave they got tired of me being my new me and they weren't good for me anyway. If they belittle they let me know to not engage for too long...I will never again stand for silencing or being silenced. I'm done being shut up. Go ahead and hate me, accuse me, belittle me. I'll just respond with neutrality and sweetness and I will respond until I AM DONE. Those who respect me in kind, and stand beside me in conviction will become my new social circle! You don't have to find like friends they will find you if you put yourself out there.
Amen! I am an abuse survivor. ❤
Exactly. I'm sick of being told to be grateful that they haven't made things worse yet. Gratitude is earned, not leveraged out of someone.
I have a hoodie with a hissing black cat- it reads "bad vibes only". It's my own inside joke against toxic positivity. F your good vibes.
Me neither. I hate it so much cause it is the same emotional censoring as narcissists do. Anyone who does this is automatic suspect
It's the weaponization of the people closest To you in your inner circle that is so particularly Devastating ! And incredibly Traumatizing .
Yup. 😞
This was absolutely true for me. To take out your support system, then point the finger at your sense of abandonment as ‘emotionally needy and unstable’ is beyond painful.
this
Especially when it's a child!😢
I find that as I get older and have learned more about narcissism, I have gotten less willing to tell myself that someone in my life is a narcissist, but much more willing to simply conclude they are bad for me, for whatever reason. And because I have dealt with a number of clear narcissists, I now know what to do.
I cut them out of my life, whether they are narcissists or not. And when a friend tells me about someone they are dealing with who seems like a narcissist, I tell them that I think that person is a narcissist. And if someone rolls their eyes at me for doing this, I write them off as an enabler.
You got the eye roll down. I actually tried to search for a wrist watch with sound effects, so I could tap a button and add sound effects to the rude listeners eye rolls.
I've decided that even narc's need love and respect..I can do that by recognizing they are what they are, understanding they too need help and support because it is in fact something they can't help on their own. And by voicing that and knowing it for myself while admitting I'm not in a place to be that for them and not blaming them but hoping for better for them instead. Learning to part ways on good terms helps. Keeping distance helps. But being better yourself by not being part of the stigma or falling for and taking the trauma or causing any is best. Learning to love labels is very hard.
Yeah, let them roll their eyes now, and then they can deal with the fallout later--without you😇
@@parker.100facts
Dr. Ramani, thank you for your compassionate witnessing of the many layers of this wound. Being seen in these places helps to melt and integrate the trauma fragments. 💖
As a teenager in a depressive episode, the woman who raised me said, "You can choose to be happy or depressed; it's all in your head." I wanted to tell her, "Walk in my shoes for an hour, then say that," but anything I said was considered'talking back' so I stayed silent.
🫂
Your real father and mother is God, not this woman. U r z child of God. Pray for God to bless her and set u free. Soon u ll be free studying in college away from her. I v been there. I m 50 and peaceful now since 17yo when i left Mt family to study
🫂 🌹
Yes, It's often the people doing the abuse or uninterested in our mental health, that throws those kinds of harmful advice at us.
They're often the cause of the depression and not the remedy.
I'm sorry you had to live with that. 😔💔 That woman was clueless. I hope you're having a good, healthy life, because you deserve it! 💜🤗
The amazing fact is that it's not all in your head! That is such a zombie lie.
It’s a huge relief when you’ve detached emotionally and understand what happened and been away from the abuse for long enough to have regained your calm and be living your life without rumination and hyper vigilance. Yes, we talked too much when we were traumatised and confused and overwhelmed. It’s okay. We learn that most people don’t understand, and some don’t care. But we will be that kind person who listens and validates someone else finding their way out of the mess.
The gift of compassion was lifesaving to me, and I extend it to others when the situation arises.
@ yes, and being able to share where we found help in books and on UA-cam. I searched for answers for decades, not knowing what was wrong when I tried so hard, and counsellors misunderstood and did more harm. In my fifties I finally found out about narcissistic abuse and parental alienation and all my questions were answered and I began to heal and learn better ways of managing my emotions and responding to the drama. It can be counterintuitive to anyone who doesn’t know about it and the scapegoat can look like the problem because they’re insecure and the abuser seems self-assured.
@@karenk2409 your experience mentioned in the Bible in 2 Corinthians 1:3-5 💕
At 2:20 - "we don't like stories about mental health that implicate other people". That's so true. Might is right.
Dr. Ramani- as someone with CPTSD I get that ALL THE TIME. Thank you for making me feel seen.
“We don’t like stories of mental health that implicate other people”. 💯 “…And definitely don’t like it, when that abuse does not meet some threshold, that society, somehow deems should be met… ….. it has to be bad enough for the general audience to clock it as trauma”. The accumulative daily betrayals, the emotional and relational abuse, are extremely harmful, and very real. However, “we” as a society, want “tidy” mental illness stories!!!! I find this so true, and validating! I have found that even some therapists have this same view. 😢 Thank you Dr. Ramani!!!
2:00 Very good points. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani! You are a god send to this horrible world filled with cruel narcissistic people🙏 I hope one day you win a nobel prize. I’ll be cheering for you.👏👏👏👏😀😀😀😀. I wish you could be my in person therapist. I am also a survivor here.😔
Totally 100% agree 🙏
This is exactly why survivors need to write and tell their stories ❤ How freaking dare this jerk say its navel gazing self absorption. It took me 2 yeats after i was in the right mental space to even feel like i had the right to speak about my life and of course i could never do that directly. And yet they'd be like oh my God that is so horrible if it was the narc telling their bs. Eff this crap.
"In the stillness of remembering what you had, and what you lost, who says what you had, you know what you lost" - Dreams, Fleetwood Mac, The Dance
❤❤❤❤❤
Great quote. Not to mention, writing is great therapy. When well done, it can also help others...
Thank you!
@WithAnEss ❤️
@@christelleny 💯 ❤️
"No one cares" is a motto I adopted in childhood wrt talking about my experience. I'm 42 and it continues to hold true.
No one cares until it happens to them
This is the truth, unfortunately.
There are people out there who will react with relief that they are not so all alone. But there is also a proverb about having to kiss a thousand frogs to find them.
A couple days ago my mom literally said “no one cares what you think”. obviously it was in front of everyone. lmaooo yikessss so gross fr
Yes, its a very lonely experience
When I finally broke free from years of emotional abuse, I started healing by educating myself through books and UA-cam channels such as yours. I talk about it, not for sympathy but for healing. I can't hold it in anymore. It hurts too much. Thank you for sharing your time and education with people like me.
Listening to you put it into words feels so validating!
The key for me is to not share too much with people who don't have a similar background. I have been blessed with several friendships with people who totally get it. I wish everyone had that. Wishing you all healing and love. Everyone deserves a soft place to land!
I’m sure many of these people who blame and shame survivors are narcissists as well. Maybe they’re too afraid of confronting narcissists. Or maybe there’s just something in them that makes them hate victims. Because naturally, victims need attention and support. Victims may often be demanding. And narcissists don’t have anything to give. It reminds me of some of the cases where narcissistic mothers murdered their own children.
A friend told me her mother had murdered her children two of them she also tried to kill herself. The children died she was set free and they had 5 more children. Yes she was a narcissist!
It is the same with bullies. These people telling others, that bullying makes you stronger while completely ignoring the psychology studies proving the bad effects like depression and anxieties in adulthood are the people that bullied others in school and sometimes still bully others in workplaces
Yes, I think so too, they're narcs, they show their true, empathy lacking face behind the mask with this.
Really appreciate this insight. It brings to mind the idea that suffering is a competition. If someone hasn’t suffered enough in egregious ways, then their suffering is invalid.
Understanding that I am not responsible for another's comfort, nor am I in charge of fixing anything for another, were two of the hardest lessons I have learned. Yet, learning this I finally experienced freedom! There are only four people that I will ever share anything deep with (my husband, adult son, & 2 sisters). I trust them and feel safe to hear their perspective knowing I make my own decisions. It's taken many years to experience the freedom to be authentic. Now, I listen to others opinions, however I don't let it interfere with my peace. I just see it as words, while not allowing it to bother me or effect me negatively. Amen
Well said... Took !e years to learn this. Teri Woolum LeFevers.
I still struggle with “not being responsible for another’s comfort”. I never even thought of that until I read your comment.
The moment that someone tells me that what I know to be true - isn’t true because they say so - that’s the moment that I question if that denying person is either a narcissist, or an abuser, or both. That’s the moment that I know for sure that the denier has no compassion, and is no longer worthy of any respect from me.
The number one rule of thumb to ask your Self is if that denying person is trying to control or manipulate you. It’s a form of victim shaming and victim blaming thrown at you that comes from out of left field under the guise of civil discourse.
Yep. I went through Domestic Violence and the invalidation out there was jaw dropping
Me too⚘
My cousin, who knew that my father is an abuser, told me to “just get over it”.
I've heard the same thing in my family. 😥😡😥💔
Condolences. My older sister (who has been narcissistic) told me that when I was much younger; that I was the kind of person who can't get over things. By "things" she meant severe abuse. We don't have any relationship at all now which I find sad.
I add to the chorus below. Thank you, thank you. Been there, done that. People want you to share when 1) it is totally superficial and 2) when it is easily "fixable". Something I have noticed as a survivor of sexual abuse. As soon as you mention it, you can feel the person emotionally step back.
My experience, exactly! This is why I don't share anything other than superficial, with anyone. No one gets it, and no one has the capacity to hear and understand.
I've listened to someone who shared a very personal abusive experience they went through and because I am an HSP I started crying. It wasn't taken well at all by the person sharing their story-they asked me why I was crying. I said "because it's sad I am sorry this happened to you". I realized afterwards maybe my crying was seen as selfish, despite that not being the intent. It made me feel strange... Like I was questioning whether my emotional response was not appropriate and I definitely felt like next time I should just have a blank expression on my face and block all my emotions inside... Essentially not act natural.
What do you make of that? Was my response of crying inappropriate? And showing emotions like crying in such a context is bad? I'm so very confused.
I'm so sorry this happened! I feel your response was natural and completely warranted.
The person telling you about their experience may have just not known how to react to your reaction. Particularly if they have shared this experience before and had been dismissed or invalidated.
I wouldn't doubt yourself ❤
Thank you for listening to that person that needed you to hear it!
@@kerrawhite444 Thank you for your reply. I find comfort in your words. I will just continue to trust my own emotions... That crying in a situation such as that is ok if it's my normal emotional response. 🙏
@@kristinaloewen3934 Your response was genuine and caring.
Another one is that "I don't want to be helped" or "saved". No, I want people to stop being unhelpful and leave me alone.
I'm grateful for the survivors who have dared to share their stories even at the risk of being invalidated by ignorant comments. You who shared were a lifeline for my sanity because you helped me put an end to invalidating my own experiences! Now having slowly learned to trust in my own reality and to break the chains I am happier now than any time in my life and just want to pay it forward.
My cousins never understood the amount of trauma I have been through. It hurts because my reality keeps being denied even when he was inflicted more pain again. I had to pull away from the whole thing but it made me sad because I didn’t just lose a father, I lost a whole extended family. With my mother & both sets grandparents passed away, there’s no tie to them anymore. It has its freedom but it’s also very lonely. Narcissistic abuse wreaks lives.
I lost my extended family too. It was either a family full of narcissists and flying monkeys or living my life alone. And I chose my life, I feel soo sane.
I think this is common when you go no contact. I'm no contact with my parents for 4ish years, which took about a year before my older sister (the scapegoat) couldn't handle it anymore and I had to go no contact with her and her husband. They wanted ME to apologize for standing up to the narcissist... 😢
I haven't seen any extended family in years, because my parents are at all the family gatherings. Nobody understands, nobody calls to talk, nobody cares. I texted my cousin (old best childhood friend), and after 4 or 5 attempts to meet up, I'm giving up.😢
If it weren't for my wife, I'd be very lonely.
@@TheRealMonnie I'm going through this very thing. I reached out to a brother to try to talk about serious issues and just got a huge long bullet-pointed email about how horrible I am. This is a brother who has taken the side of my covert narcissist mother and her overt narc husband (both violent crybullies) in the past so I should have probably known better. But I also fear that maybe my brother is a narc like his parents are. I haven't seen any family at all for the past four years and not a soul reaches out, and apparently as my brother hurtfully described it, 'they all talk about what to do with me since I'm so difficult to talk to.' Y'all, I'm not difficult to talk to. I am someone who stands by the Truth though and narcs seem to really hate that. I'm happy you have a loving partner. 🥂
What I often see in therapy are educated people who struggle with relationships, due to their past experiences and feel pressured to meet the standards of society and science who ironically and at times abusively, push that "wired for connection" moto. People who genuinely try to do their best for themselves and for their loved ones, end up feeling "less than" when they don't succeed in their social or personal life. They usually shift the blame to themselves, and their old wounds are bleeding again and again.
I was told to "stop wallowing in self-pity" by my best friend and she told me to instead "just be happy for other people who have it better than you," "Choose to be happy," "Your past has no influence on who you choose to be now, you're the one choosing to be miserable and anxious," etc.
Oh, and the good thing about being honest is that you can genuinely assess how you were damaged, because you can understand yourself clearly. This allows you to actually resolve your issues.
Playing into this philosophy of hers risks your identity on the sunk costs fallacy. It will be harder to drop the act once you've kept it up, because then you have to take accountability for halting your own progress. That's unlikely. Accountability is rare enough.
Sorry for the double text. Hope this helped. ❤
Obviously this person has never experienced what you have, and has empathy impairment.
No fucking kidding! It's easy for her to say. Having my sister tell me "There there, it wasn't so bad, it was in the past, you can move on now" the abuse l endured for 15 years+ of my life when she and my brother were clearly treated much better than me!--I was the family scapegoat.
Thank you. It's so rare to find someone who truly understands. Luckily I've found a few people who at least believe me
5:01 Yep! When I cautiously let an old "friend" who'd let me down into my life again on a trial basis because she'd been to therapy and seemed to have grown, she talked at length about her current problems and the ongoing impact of her troubled childhood. I gave her empathy and compassion. When **I** talked about similar things, I got window dressing like "you're entitled to your feelings" but also her same old judgmental messages that I'm supposedly too sensitive, interpret things wrong, and am LETTING myself stay trapped in the past (as if CPTSD is a choice!). Hypocrisy much!? 🧐🙄 Byeee! I'm SO GLAD I've done the work to be able to recognize toxic people in ways I couldn't before and LET THEM GO! 😃🍀❤ *THANK YOU, Dr. Ramani!!!* ❤
Dr. R, I want you to know you are a blessing to this world. I found you on UA-cam about six years ago and you have helped me with my healing immeasurably.
I am 62. I have a narcissistic father and did not have a clue that I was being emotionally and psychologically abused until my early 40s. How would I? It was all I'd ever known and everyone on the outside adored my dad.
I finally broke down after another short term romance failed and found a therapist who enlightened me and forever changed my life. Im still healing, but am a completely different person now...more of the person I was always meant to be.
Your videos have filled in the gaps, explained the nuances, furthered my understanding and most importantly, made me feel seen and heard and to understand I'm not the problem or the crazy one. I just wanted you to know the impact you have had in this world and that you are truly needed.
Beautifully and truthfully said!
“So he’s a narcissist…at least he makes good money.” I was told that!! 😮
Omg!
Tell them to watch Betrayal. Omg
You waste time and energy even though he makes money. 😢
Wow, just wow. People. It should be the other way around:"he's not rich? at least he's not a narc"
Yup. I was encouraged to leave my abusive ex not when I described how I was treated but instead it was when he went down the Rogan rabbit hole and bought ivermectin.
My coworkers who came to my office to complain about our narc boss and the hostile work environment and our union who only focused on the professional staff instead of also us support staff wanted nothing to do with me when I had no choice but report forgeries that weren't being addressed in house. I also filed a complaint about my union to the labor relations board. During my unfortunately ultimately useless fight, even friends who weren't from my work avoided me because it made them uncomfortable to hear about what was going on with me.
With everything I lost, I don't regret the people who showed their true colors during this time no longer being in my life. I finally went no contact with several family members whose breadcrumbs I had made meals out of my whole life. My world is incredibly small now, basically just me and I'm okay with that. I've been clay for others to mold as they wish my whole life so this is a great opportunity to really get to know myself and what I actually like and think- especially about myself.
"whose breadcrumbs I had made meals out of my whole life". Wow, that hit my heart like a thunderbolt. With that one phrase, you illuminated and encapsulated relationships that I've needed to end!
No more breadcrumbs masquerading as banquets for me!
Thank you.
LOVE this: "My world is incredibly small now, basically just me and I'm okay with that. I've been clay for others to mold as they wish my whole life so this is a great opportunity to really get to know myself and what I actually like and think- especially about myself." 👏👏 Yay! In retrospect, I woke up to myself when my social circle shrank and I never connected the two before. Knowing and liking myself for the first time in my life is 100% worth my lost ILLUSIONS about those people. And now I have the discernment, self-love, and comfort enforcing boundaries to risk letting GOOD people in. That's a win-win, not the tragedy I sometimes feel about losing so many people. *THANK YOU for this helpful reframe!* 😃❤
@@apricotcookie4850 Yes! We must learn to set our own table
@@bellaluce7088 Thank you for letting me know how good the otherside after getting to know myself can look!
Didn't the government retract their dismissal of ivermectin recently?
Not saying to go listen to Rogan, just genuinely asking. Myself, since having used it on my livestock for years, it does what it does and does it well. Doses are by weight, and have even used it to treat parasites on chickens. (Cause that's the recommended use as well, you can buy different types)
Sorry you went through a lot.
Did you learn anything positive from it? Like how you and the exe had grown apart and weren't compatible/toxic tailspin? Or that you did have the intestinal fortitude to stick with an ethical decision and survive the fallout? Hopefully this opens different doors on your path, and you can allow better things into your path ❤
Thank you. ❤ I’ve come to the conclusion that most people don’t deserve to know the whole me.
One of my friends grew up in a religious cult and it's so nice to have someone you can casually mention messed up childhood stuff and mental health problems and we can just laugh about it instead of the other person getting all weird.
Dr. Ramani, your insights, compassion, and transparency are life-altering. Thank you so much for your work.
You are making a difference for so many of us.
Dr. Ramani, thank you for sharing this. I know it reached so many people.
People was feeling stuck and discouraged, second-guessing everything all over again… there will always be times of feeling “weakness”, aka taking 3 steps back after spending years taking 2 steps forward…and that’s okay. Thankful for your videos the last almost decade, and getting back to the channel. I’m thankful to be re-watching your videos.
As usual, you have named this 100 percent!!!!
Thank you for this video. You expressed what I have been feeling for 35 years very well. I have had numerous therapists and it would take months for 5 out of 6 of them to grasp much less validate. Only one validated and furthermore she explained to me how I grew as basically a small satellite to my parents planet and then the sexual and mental and verbal abuse was just the icing
I have given up making new friends. I just keep it light and social but minimal now.
I have raised my sons as a single mother and they are grown and doing very well so far emotionally and mentally.
I am not interested in dating anymore. I would rather be quiet and validate myself than face further sneers and disdain since I get them every day from my mother.
I don’t feel bitter. I feel sad and exhausted by people.
I’m staying in my own lane and looking for a quiet life in the mountains and some travel to go see the whales.
For some reason I find seeing whales the most captivating and beautiful thing.
My advice....limit the contact you have with your Mother...she is draining you with her distain.
omg same!!!! esp the whales
True after all I have been through it has made me to get gaslight from doctors which is happening a lot today
Yes. It's tough enough for someone traumatized to seek out and ask for help.
It's even worse, when they are met with either disinterested concern and zero assistance or made to feel they are being unreasonable or overly emotional.
2:50 yeah, I’ve always said to myself that what I went through didn’t count as abuse because it “wasn’t bad enough”. Or that there’s no way I could have trauma because it wasn’t “a traumatic enough” experience.
I was beaten, drowned, choked, burnt and r*ped for 38 years (first violence was done to my body at 4 months old, I cannot even remember), my body is covered with scars and even I am told "to move on" or "just because you were r*ped"...
"Nobody forced you to marry him"
"You signed that contract"
Society and how people react are worse than abuse itself.
I am 40 and my life expectancy is 58 due to all the violence. And then people wonder why I am depressed and have no hope for my future. My future. Means less then 20 years. I am severely bulimic and hurt my southern part every night because I am used to mutilation and abuse and torture.
And all I can hear is: Its your fault. You "picked" him.
@ ugh, yeah I got a lot of “you could’ve left”. What hurts me the most is when my parents said “you should’ve listened to us”, because they ended up being right about him and kept telling me to leave him- which obviously I didn’t for a while. They very much implied (and maybe outright said, this was a while ago) that I chose him over them. Which they’re not wrong but, idk everything he said made sense to me somehow. Then they told me after a while that I needed to get over it.
Sometimes the comments hurt just as bad
I find some narcissists in this comments section who insult and demean in their replies to other commenters.
Yes, they come frequently to leave entitled comments... Most of the time they are ignored. Some other times they are bullied back a bit 🤭
Yes, the narcs love to come to channels such as this and make their ridiculous comments! I have seen it here, and other other narc abuse recovery channels. Most of the time I ignore them, but once in a while I can't help myself, and I respond back! I usually regret it, though.
Sure. My ex narc does this... as she's been doing a dirty long smear campaing trying to destroy me, many crimes, so she kept coming all groups on narc learning working to keep her facade and crimes hiden and twisted... and as she spread edited intimacy pics to many people and social media calling me as a predator or such, I decided to do something other than just to stay away/no contact, and only since then, after I started to show also picts of her (in the lovebombing phase) she (and/or her flying monķeys) became less encouraged ...!
People who do this … I just don’t see how they have so much time on their hands! Don’t they have anything better to do than put down people who they don’t know and don’t care about? Guess not.
Careful not to speak your mind on them, YT may ban your comments for hate speech lol. My other account just got hit for educating on terminology for such people
Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate it and need to hear this.
Breathtakingly beautiful analysis/dissection, as always
People who respond like that have not dealt with their own trauma and literally run away and suppress their own feelings. So of course they would not have empathy for others, they dont hold empathy for themselves.
We see how society via movies, social media, celebrities, toxic workplace and power hungry bosses, elevate and enable people like narcs and others on the dark triad. So its good that some of us are becoming more aware and changing the narrative by having open adult conversations about it.
Wow this is exactly what I'm going through right now. Your content is so on point Doc! Thank you for making me feel heard and seen, safe and validated. ❤❤❤
She always makes a lot of sense.
Maybe more people would figure out the truth earlier, I was scapegoated as a child and alienated from my children after divorcing my narcissistic husband- and was gaslit to believe it was all my fault, my children still believe the lies and manipulation 😞
so devastating-
thank you for all your work 🙏
I have and continue to experience of divorcing an narcissist who was awarded sole custody, in getting away with accusing me of parental alienation for the children being scared of him and fighting not go every time (50/50 custody court order to begin with that never worked for the children) they were made to be with him. He then 'legally' got to truly and completely alienate me over the many years they were completely cut off from me, their parent they felt safe and secure with, cared for and loved by. Now all three sons have gone no contact with me and blocked me for having talked a little bit about what actually happened, how afraid they were of him and begged not to go and what they said was happening when they were with him, which I did try to protect them from. Instead they were cut off from me who they trusted. Now they perceive me as the narcissist, one is spending tens of thousands of dollars with therapist Dr. Ross Rosenberg, who has been instrumental in my son no longer speaking, seeing or communicating with me. It's unreal, that he has not helped my son explore how it felt losing his mom from his life overnight when he was only 9 years old and understood how abandoned my son was made to feel by that cruel court order which his dad used as a club to constantly threaten them with. Dr. Ramani is one of the very few who actually gets all aspects of narcissist abuse, even though many of the other experts producing content and writing books on the subject are missing what is being done to the children and the effects on adult children who were forced to live with and have the narcissist as their only parent and role model.
Michele I want to thank you for your comment... The same exact thing happened to me.... And I'm going through it now and it's incredibly painful and people don't understand. I don't think they really even want to know so I don't bother to share it with a lot of people. But your comment makes me know that I'm not alone. Thank you for that. 🤍
I do feel like a fool for not being able to put together the pieces of the narcissistic abuse I was going through until I was in way too deep.
@@tonymartos2922 You’re not a fool. But I felt that way too, until I realized I trusted, believed, gave the benefit of the doubt etc, because that’s a reflection of who I am. It’s easy to trick someone who doesn’t know a game is being played. Now that you know act accordingly. Once you see it you can’t unsee it. Give yourself the same grace, compassion and kindness you showed them. You are not foolish, you’re probably a good person who couldn’t comprehend that someone who said they loved you could be so devious and malicious. At least that was my story. Forgive yourself.
@tonymartos2922 you know NOW. That’s what matters most. Be kind to yourself. ❤
In my experience, feeling like a fool is a part of narcissistic abuse. They are always superior to you, you feel dumb/incapable. They gaslight, blame and behave as you are the problem (at any type of conflict, regardless you make a mistake etc.): so you find yourself thinking of yourself, your shortcomings, which everyone has. You think about what you do and so on. So your attention is diverted from them to you. You can feel like the worst person ever when they shame you, treat you badly. As you feel that, shame is projected on to you and you become paralyzed. You can't take a step back and look at how they're treating you.
They blind you, in multiple ways: love bombing, gaslighting, invalidating your reality/experiences, crazy making, inflicting their toxic shame into you. And they feel joy in positioning the other as a fool, when the other person actually only trusted, loved, treated them as humans, gave them chances, and wanted and made efforts to make the relationship better, wanted the good times with them. They want you to feel, think lesser of yourself, it makes them feel superior, they get their narcissistic supply.
I used "you" but I am talking about me. As cringy it may sound but being compassionate towards myself helped me have a better relationship with myself. I mean I still experience feeling like a fool quite a bit, being compassionate with myself takes the weight of their mean voice off at least.
My narcissistic parents usually downplayed values like compassion, care, and praised qualities like being intelligent, getting higher education etc. so much that it feels inferior to feel like a fool. My mom even made me take an IQ test when I was a child just because I was slow in my movements. I was probably a bit depressed or afraid to make a mistake so I slowed down. Now I ask myself on the inside: what if being a fool isn't that inferior? What if other qualities are more important?
@ well said. 100%
Well Dr Ramani has also fallen for it. Many intelligent, incredible people have. And if you grew up around any toxic behavior or people high in narcissist traits then you are attracted to what feels familiar not just familiar but it’s natures way of working through your trauma. It’s understandable and unfortunately sometimes necessary
I was just recently trying to get help for codependency online by reading articles and watching videos and in the comments were some of the most hateful and harsh words said about people struggling with codependency. I won’t repeat what was said but it was unbelievable. And it was a lot of people.
I sought help and support over and over again. I endured gaslightng, blameshifting, character criticism, personality critiques, namecalling, etc. I wasted 32 years of my life with a narc husband and M.I.L with their own sick story of covert incest (that I didn't know existed) who lied and judged and humiliated me as much as they could. I finally got out. And I was set adrift socially and vocationally. People were happy to make things up about me and believe it, but they wouldn't touch the truth about him or his mother. I have a new life now. It amazing what you can do with your life when you are free from your abusers and those who blame you for it. I am living a life of freedom, creativity, meaningful work, love, laughter, growth and joy that I never knew was possible. I found friends--real friends and great colleagues who respect and care for me as I do for them. It's never too late to leave. It's never too late to start over. It's never too late to love your one precious life enough to remove it from those who don't deserve to be near it.
Bravo!!!!
I admire your braveness...good on you!
One of your best and most important videos. Thank you. I've been through the abuse. It's just cruel. A nightmare of the worst kind. The subtle or less subtle dismissal by inlaws or relatives is painful and highly discouraging. A friend who listens without judgement is such a blessing. It can save you from going insane. One other thing that helps me a lot is letting go of anger and instead learn to show compassion. Some people just don't understand. Having compassion and patience with them helps me from becoming bitter. ❤ At some point in your life you have to accept what happened and find a way to take things lightly and with some humor again. That's not to dismiss any of the insanity you had to endure, but it's a way for you to slowly get your life back. 👊
Dr. Ramani:
Thank you so much for the reminders! I think a lot of narc survivors will agree with me that in some ways we are like recovering alcoholics and need to get a boost of reminders now and then to keep us from going back into default mode. And the oversharing and undersharing was particularly helpful. I don't think I ever fully recognized that issue in the front part of my brain and consciousness.
Again, thank you, thank you!😊
9:06 Some people aren’t worthy to see your whole you and that is their loss…Gold sentence to heal.
Truth be told
Amen Dr.Ramani, thank you ❤🙏🙌
My narcissistic abuse by my ex husband was outright mocked by the woman who calls herself my “best friend” because she has been the victim of domestic violence and believes I am co-opting her story for attention and “coolness points.” (Direct quote on that last one.) I just stopped telling her stuff.
That person would no longer be my friend, or have any place in my life!
So, only she can be the victim, or victimized? Maybe she needs all the attention and all the empathy? I would walk slowly towards the door and then run. This is not a friend.
@@Sweetpea-2023 oh she loves playing the victim. Actually it’s her treatment of me that led me to this channel/community because she is a narcissist herself. I am trying to work through my issues from my marriage as well as a 22-year complex female friendship.
@@christinelamb1167 I would love to be able to send her packing. She is a narcissist herself, and I have given her slack for 22 years because her abusive upbringing has left her with C-PTSD and addiction issues, and I admit I pity her. Also, she can do some damage to my life so I have some fears about leaving the friendship.
@@lindamcmanus3057🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thanks for this 💙💪🏽🌎
10000 % accurate. I grew up with a narcissistic mom, my elder sister being the golden child and least rebellious always supports mom and I'm the ungrateful daughter.
I’m so glad that you’re bringing this to our attention. There are so many toxic people out there hurting people who cry out for genuine help from narcissistic abuse especially in the comments as you say. I’ve experienced it myself & left groups because of it. Thank you! 💞🌎
thank you and thank you ❤
Thank you for this video.
I wrote an allegorical fable and some poetry, to try and put into words some of what it feels like to live with the complex trauma that results from long term narcissistic abuse. I got so many eye rolls that I haven't published any more. Not yet, anyway.
But your encouragement reminds me that this is not a one size fits all kind of journey. That healing takes time, comes in stages, and is part of the beauty that is becoming.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for discussing this critical topic with us. Self-respect and self-love are my guards against dismissiveness. I am blessed with very few friends, and they are all true gems and close to my heart.
Some don't want that conversation. It is hard to find a balanced friend who does not yoyo you sometimes. Flip flopping on empathy or selective empathy, you are right Doc. "It makes them unworthy of seeing the real you." Dr. Ramani. Love is: Just sitting with someone who needs you.
I think I agree with you. I watched this story the other day which was about a woman who went out with a serial killer and when it came to putting him in prison, she was scared and she was lectured at why wouldn't you want him to go in prison. Then when she was treated badly in court by the barrister, she was told to 'let it go'. Where was the bit where it was understood that it would be terrifying for her to go to court, and when she was humiliated in court that she would want to complain about that. It seemed to me that the physical abuse was one thing, but the emotional and psychological abuse was exacerbated by the lack of support from society. I think that is what you're talking about. This was an extreme case, but I think it rings true for everyone that emotional and psychological abuse are exacerbated by society's lack of support.
exactly
I have few friends, and few of them understand. I have mostly quit reaching out. Even the nicest often only wants good news, happy happy happy, toxic positivity. The not so nice, hoo boy.
As one dear friend said, "That's just not right," as if that fixes it. I learned to say nothing about what I now hear called CPTSD.
Thank you.
My brain always tells me not to read the comments, but I feel compelled to. Bullies are rampant online, and people will disagree with you and say the most unhinged things just to get a reaction. Sometimes, I fall into the trap because of my moral values. Statistics show most abuse and unalivings is familial or someone we are dating or married to. My doom scrolling is true crime. 😢
Thankful my friends and family aren’t like this. Of course the narcissist accuses me of being the abuser, which can contribute to society being confused who is actually the disordered person. But I have psych evals now. It’s not me!
This is so helpful and validating
I just wanted to say that it really would‘ve been a good message if your book was on there too! I‘m doing an internship in Portugal (I‘m a psych student) and I visited a very small unknown town. In the town was a little library where students learned. There were a few books in Portuguese to buy. I was soooo happy to saw your book „It’s not you“ lying there! It was in Portuguese but I could detect it because of the cover. I would’ve never expected it there because it‘s not a comercial shop with many new books, but you could buy it there. Even if there are jerks on a daily level, your message is studies around the world as I write this. Unfortunately we encounter many jerks on a daily basis but I think they are the ones who feel threatened because they start to recognize that the dynamics can change and people are being provided with tools to leave the abusers. They don‘t like that and talk it down but they cannot stop the knowledge that keeps being shared over and over. You seem like a modest human being so I don‘t think you are very proud of yourself but you really should be!
Thank you Dr. Ramani! You have been so helpful!
So true! I've always been super validating of people's pain and it just came naturally to me. The moment I had to endure mobbing at my previous job and was insanely confused someone responds with "I had nothing but toxic jobs". I thought she was a friend until that moment. She doesn't even realise how absurd her responses are.
It's only natural to show empathy when someone shares something sad with you. These mean fake snakes don't know how lost they are. 😫
Thank you Dr. Ramani. This is true. Having been a subject of narcissistic ritualistic abuse before, I was being taken advantage of as though not having rights. It is the worst form of abuse. It is astounding to me in modern society this abuse goes on. There needs to be regulatory controls to protect individual rights so that individuals do not get caught in a vortex of narcissistic abuse.
Nail on head again Dr Ramani!!! Thanks. You can FEEL it falls on deaf ears, they don't do deep heartfelt responses. It took 20 years of this until I spoke to one canny old bird over the garden gate. She listened then she uttered 4 words which indicated to me she was actively listening. Those 4 words 'STREET ANGEL - HOUSE DEVIL.' was an expression I'd never heard before at the time but totally encapsulated the whole situation around my narcissistic ex-husband. Boy was I relieved. You do the same in your videos, you VALIDATE those of us out here trying to get to the bottom of this nonsense, which is all it is.... toxic nonsense, like the woke brigade LOL. Thank you for all that you do for all of us out here. God bless. xxx
Wow I really like how you put that boy can I resonate with you some people do get it very very few and I'm starting to think it's okay
@@katrinasmith3875 LOL.... thanks for your kind comment. 20 years!!! 20 years!! *I'd spoken to relatives, friends, the doctor, strangers, neighbours and the little old gal over the garden gate was some random person walking past the house. When the time is right I suppose. It is OK that some don't get it, it has to be, I don't believe we can take pole position and actually press them to change. Because (like a seed germinating) it has to come from inside them, that's the source - not information being clagged on from the outside! LOL It's an inner awareness/authenticity/honesty and unfolding of emotions - as you well know - followed by increasing spirituality all done with humility for the process. Life will do this to them if it's meant to be. I tend to answer genuine people's curiosity (when they have come to me) but I would never try and approach someone. I just humbly answer their questions IF I sense they're authentic in their questioning. Good luck and God bless on your journey through life. xxx
I got away from a narcissistic friend who treated me exactly like this after I finally got out of a narcissistic abusive relationship. She told me, "only pick one person to talk about this with, you always make everything about yourself." It's been four years since I last spoke to them, couldn't be happier!
I WISH I COULD RUN TO YOU 😭 YOUR THE BEST 💓
Thank you Dr. Ramani. 🏵
the toxic shaming from these types, makes me think they also have intense internalized shame. I pity them that they still, after all these years, have to put people down to feed their fragile egos. I think the world is one big giant shame bucket and not many safe ones out there. It's scary.
You could be right and I think the people who say these things are narcs themselves. They lack empathy, so that's why they say insensitive, dismissive things. I see experiences like that as a sign that's a person to not talk to. Maybe about the weather, if you have no choice, but not more than that.
I learned long ago to not share abuse inflicted by other people to friends or family. Most of the time it’s safer, especially if dealing with a covert narcissist. Lots of silent endurance at times.😢
Receiving shaming comments is exactly why I don’t share my feelings.
@@kathleen3292 yup. Thanks to this platform we can safely share...I'll take it 😀
@@earthrooster1969 agreed. This is the first time I feel comfortable in sharing however that has only been online.
My siblings (the narcissists) are the ones who shamed me when I tried "Talking it out" with them. You just can't teach toxic ppl how to be respectful or kind.
People can only hold space for others at the depth they've held space for themselves. Most people haven't done their work and perpetuate emotional neglect. They're emotionally shallow.
Well said.
Relationships often face challenges, but there’s always a way to move forward. My marriage had its share of significant problems, but with the right help, my wife and I managed to resolve them and strengthen our relationship. Solutions are available if you’re willing to put in the effort and collaborate. Keep hope alive-answers are possible.
I’m struggling with serious issues in my relationship and can’t bear the thought of losing her. My love and desire to have her back in my life are immense. I’m willing to do whatever it takes and would be very grateful for any guidance or suggestions.
I'm thankful for this guidance. I'll immediately search for her online. I appreciate it. I'm hopeful that adopting this strategy will also bring about positive changes for me; I miss her deeply.
@@BruceKnapp-n4q I don't know if Dr. Deborah Joy is still available or not but she helped save my marriage.
Just to be clear, this video is talking about relationships that are filled with outright abuse. Abuse is not "problems". Glad you two benefited from therapy, but Dr. Ramani is talking about something much darker and deeper.
@@Westernwilson Well in my case I did have to cut my inlaws out of my life due to MNism, but did you know that experts say that can improve your marriage? It's too bad though, as they are wonderful in many ways, but there's that abuse factor I just can't abide by, and there are problems like this with my spouse but I have found we can actually work on it and get somewhere more positive.
I also had to cut off connection with my own family and friends because of MNness. I came to this channel already well-versed in it.
It was sort-of inevitable. As knowledge about narcissists evolve... So do their tactics.
This video was so well said and came to me at such an opportune time. I am very much struggling with the dismissive comments made by my “friends” who still believe that my soon to be ex narc husband is very “mentally ill” amd suffers from depression. They say I should not call him a narcissist since I’m no expert and all they knew was a this great guy! Man..,these comments are so hard and make me feel abused all over again. Thank goodness I do have many other friends that support me and there is no judgment from them. Trying to set boundaries with some, but find it challenging since I take everything so personally and am such a codependent person trying to please everyone.