Everything Wrong With: Sion | League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 4 гру 2023
- Though he's not considered to be a balance nightmare or an overloaded champion, Sion has developed a playstyle and reputation that isn't well received by many players, being considered a champion you can intentionally "feed" on and still win games. Today we'll be looking into Everything Wrong With: Sion.
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#LoL #Sion #leagueoflegends - Ігри
TLDR: is not Sion's fault, it's Riot's fault for throwing the game balance with experimentation and powercreep.
I will never fault them for pushing fun designs, instead of being complacent with boring designs.
Blaming experimentation is the most boring response ever
Yeah, don't do experimentation, just copy paste fucking Yasuo in all 5 roles, that's more interesting, isnt it?
@@magna7446 By boring you mean stupid. It's dumb to come up with such a statement.
@robertothesupermutant8303 , ksante is basically tank yasuo
Q with 3 stacks and knockup
W defensive tool
E dash
R Blink that goes behind the opponent
Imagine if his passive was capable of fearing others like wild rift as well
That sounds pretty cool. Does the fear affect champs, minions or both?
@@Blu_Moon_Owl all
tbf he's pretty bad in wilf rift since there is no heartsteel
@@Blu_Moon_Owlboth
@@Blu_Moon_Owlboth
I feel like the biggest issue with Sion is that as a tank he's designed with far too much counterplay to the point he can't do anything to protect his team from the enemy threats and as an obnoxious suicide splitpusher has too little.
I never got the impression that he was meant to be a defensive tank or warden. His current class label of Vanguard fits his kit and style of play. Sion is more often the aggressor in many situations. Being the driving force of initiation or in forcing decisions for the enemy team. Be it as straight forward as him ulting into enemies or applying side-lane pressure.
Malphite is also a tank but he barely has any peel for his Allies. They're similar in that regard. So he's supposed to initiate for his team.
Sion is designed as he is in lore,an aggresive tank that can take a lot of hits and diverting the majority of the enemy forces to handle him.
He doesn't discriminate between friend and foe,so a sion can easily win or lose you the game regardless of team
When I need to peel as Sion, I just stack Sunfire damage to 200+/s and stick to whoever wants to get to my team.
@@Martin-yh7vi Malphite renders the enemy ADC useless since their attack speed is reduced beyond repair, he provides more than enough protection for his team.
Playing vs sion just feels so unrewarding because if you kill him he just gets cs through his passive and he just stacks for ages and takes little to no downside for dying early game.
Sion is very nice to play against
@@boldisordorin9010only if you are a tankmelter
@@tomwanders6022if you go tank melter ad sion is your worst nightmare
Interestingly enough, all the low elo scrubs who watch baus claim that he is fine, even though they would most likely complain about the champ all day on reddit had it not been for Baus' presence. It's really sad how easily a famous person can twist the head of people
@@pwpqwq7648I never had problem with sion and ever since they nerfed his passive he became less relevant
finally, the Baus special
You can't talk about Sion without talking about the legendary TP and ulting back to lane combo where if he uses them sparingly enough he's at lane 24/7 pretty much.
playing sion correctly means you never need to ult back to lane though, you can always ult for the proxy and waste enemy team's time while achieving the same result
Because if you ult back to lane you are shit, and you lose a big part of your kill pressure against certain matchups
The jist is not to ult immediately from base, but when you're in range to potentially stun the enemy into the gray screen. At max range, the knock up is more than enough to follow with a Q, resulting into 4 seconds of uselessness, followed by a 1-2 seconds slow (numbers which make even Morganas jealous) and by that point, it's at least half of the enemy's health for even the heaviest soon/enemy builds, even moreso if the enemy doesn't respect your ult warning. If u catch them under tower, it's GG.
And even if it whiffs, I always found the cooldown to be short enough that I have it available on a reengage, should I need it for the kill. The map pressure is almost always more impactful than the kill pressure on the single lane opponent.
The problem is when you ignore this guy for one second, your base is on the verge of exploding
Splitpushing isnt really the problem , cause the same can be said for fiora,trundle,yorick,ap volibear,tryndamere
@@thetincan3170yes I know, but with the case of Sion, it's on a different kind
The thing i like about Sion and wish more champions had is a "slow but powerful" kit. He truly feels powerful unlike let's say ksante thats just flashy
I hope when chogath gets his rework he becomes more like sion
He is already slow and does damage but it doesnt have the weight sion has on his abilities
i would say that sion isn t the problem atleast mostly (couse his pasive is the only problem in him imo) but the problem lays in bounty system being abusable and straight up broken and hullbreaker being op for quite some time now
His Ult being a free TP or an un CC-able disengage is quite cancer aswell.
@@abuuwu2798 lmao people will complain about every champ, if you complain about every champ is every champ op then?
Most from the problems i've seen in the video could be fixed by changing his passive, yeah.
Its the death passive that guarantees that the Sion will get some advantage from a disvantageous situation, basically turning the game upside down.
His health scaling is also overtuned but thats because of Riot's own game design decisions that made him that way, Sion shares the same problem Veigar has IMO as both can and will become a threat as the game progresses, you can at most delay or finish the game before that threshold.
sions passive letting him stack stats for free while dead is a pretty huge issue. his passive in general in where ALL of his problems are coming from, they need to rework it to stop this nonsense
@@pokerusfreak8194 Yeah, i would say that at least MOST of his problems comes from his death rush passive, if you remove that for... lets say take W's passive and put as his new one.
He would still be almost unkillable late game, but now once dead he would STAY DEAD.
And also that would kill most of the AD builds as they rely on his passive mode to do a lot of damage, as Sion is too clunky to hit Q and R in an aware target.
sion is just a test of "can you deal with split pushers", but hes not the only one who does this and i dont think hes even the best one. If anything, Garen or trundle does this job far better while also being able to win a 1v1 scenario much easier when your team comes to match the split push
My big issue is that he has “Illaoi syndrome” as I call it. Everything in his kit except his E has at least 2 seconds of being telegraphed before you can get the full effect, so they needed to give him so many stats that even without getting full value the champ still goes toe to toe with everyone. Other notable examples are Cho, Yorick, and even someone like MF or Katarina for non-top laners.
None of MF’s abilities are telegraphed, Yorick is strong because of maiden and ghouls not his stats and Kat is broken because her of instant un-telegraphed blinks and the fact her abilites apply on-hit, breaking the item system
What extra stats are given to Illaoi? She doesn't infinitely scale at all and I'm pretty sure has the lowest attack speed in the entire game?
@@TheBoardGamer They buffed her attack speed a bit ago, but what I’m referring to is that she can miss her Q and W slams entirely and win a trade because of landing only her E, or miss her E but one tentacle does as much as some champs entire quick trade. Champs I mentioned don’t need to get full effect from their abilities, even if you mostly outplay them the trade is even
@@TheBoardGamer she has the highest base AD in the game (ignoring mega gnar), for one. She definitely does not have the lowest attack speed, sharing the 3rd worst base attack speed with FIFTY-SEVEN other champions (over half of which, she has more natural attack speed scaling than), the slower two being graves and annie. She beats 43 other champions in base attack speed by level 18, 44 if you count belveth but of course, she gets passive attack speed so I didn't.
She also has all her abilities scale %health damage based on her total AD, which, with her massive base AD, gives her a good 6% max health damage on W, and 12% of your current health as damage on E, whereas champions like Vi or Rhaast would not get that benefit while also scaling less with bonus AD afterwards.
I think people are missing the true reason why this is happening, Vars also didn't mention it in the video. As a sion main myself I can confidently say that the problem is fucking BoTRK and Divine Sunderer (also insane anmounts of true damage in certain champions). If only those items weren't in the game the tanks wouldn't need to be that strong. Adcs and midlaners complain that tanks are broken while tanks lose to braindead fioras who just built a divine sunderer and now beat the tank while being 2k gold behind. I think that the only healthy tank buster item is LDR because you can only build it 3rd or 4th item, which makes a lot of sense, unlike the other ones which you can get 1st item. In short, remove/hard nerf true and % damage, nerf tanks, that's the easy solution.
Let’s not forget that a couple years back riot added an ENTIRE GAME MECHANIC in response to int sion.
(The mechanic I’m referring to is how attacking a tower without minions around now only does a tiny amount of damage)
11:29 yes, Sion CANNOT BE STOPPED
Elder Sion.
NOTHING WILL STOP MEEEEEEEEE!!!!
© Sion, the Hand of Noxus
Imagine if Sion had a normal passive that works when you're alive, and his Q wasn't countered by literally ANY dash or ANY stun.
sweet dreams
200years Sion.
I think giving Sion Q unstoppable after about half a second of charging would make it a lot better without making it uncounterable. The only other thing I can think of would make his E apply a grounding effect similar to poppy’s. so whoever gets hit cannot dash or is grounded if currently dashing.
@@drunkengibberish1143 E grounding effect like Singed's Glue or Cassio's poison would be amazing.
Only this change would allow Sion to play against Fiora, Riven, Jax.
And the already skill matchups like Jayce, Yasuo, Yone would be a breeze.
Literally Soraka E can cancel Sion Q
Sion was never a problem after they nerfed his passive doing full damage to towers imo. I never struggled and most bruisers just stat check him and hard counter him, split pushing as a strength is neglible when every bruiser can do the same such as Jax and team fight and carry much better. I never got the hate for this champ in all honesty. There's so much anti tank, and most bruisers don't even cap out LDR 22% extra dmg but Sion does also. The champ's so easy to counter after they constantly nerfed him I never understood it.
Finally a sane non delusional person in here.
I mean just play urgot and stat check him, you not only clear waves extremely fast on urgot, you can stop his ult from hitting the tower by e buffering right as he is about to hit you, it'll flip him over you and you can burst him with your 6% max hp dmg shotgun legs
"i play low elo and dont have to deal with Sion players who know how to macro properly" fixed your conclusion!
@@candi_appel sion literally gets weaker the higher rank u go buddy
It's really impressive how you can abuse the game rules with him, Baus is honestly one of the best players of all time imo.
Using a tactic that even high elo players can't do shit against does not make you a good player
if breaking game mechanics for an advantage makes you "one of the best players" then baus loses hard to Vandiril by a longshot
being smart enogh to create a tactic like that does so @@pwpqwq7648
@@pwpqwq7648if you just needed to "die lol" to have baus'es success on sion there would be hundreds on challenger sions. Baus has insane micro and macro, he understands exactly how and when to die, thinks 4 waves ahead and has a perfect understanding of all the game's rules and win conditions. Thats why baus is one of the best players
@@pwpqwq7648 If you're the only one who can pull it off (in high elo) you're probably a very good player...
Funny how the champion itself is fine. Also, Sion going INT and proxing was the bruisers/ laner bullies fault, since, sion cant handle them early game.
Now that everyone know the value of his passive and HOW BOUNTY SYSTEM WORKS, the annoying playstyle that was used to just scape from lane bullies, is now a valid playstyle. But it is really funny on how getting hid of runes just made sion hella strong dmgwise hahahahahaa.
Honestly all it takes to stop Sion is any character with Bork or fast waveclear. If the character has bork then Sion will just die before getting to the turret. If the character has quick waveclear then if he goes proxy you get the same amount of minions that he does(sure, there's his W passive but he would be getting it anyway) and if he chooses to actually lane he won't be able to touch the turret because what's the poin if minions are already dead?
Vars teaching baus law
Literally just lock his passive until 6 like Evelyn camoflage. This allows players to punish sion early.
Honestly, i wished sion had a different passive
The champ is less than 50% wr all ranks, delusional
@@victorpedrosoceolin3919 Agreed! From the points Vars raised in this video, its easy to notice that Sion's passive is the biggest source of the "int to win" strategy that makes so many players want to slam their heads into a wall.
It should be changed or removed for another lore-related passive that doesn't let the champion become such a "counter me or lose" thing
Personally i really enjoy the idea of Sion being one of the most clunky characters in the game, with big Q Wind-ups, W damage that can be cancelled and his R that is hard to hit from afar and can be sidestepped or dashed from, but his passive is bringing all those supposedly counterplays of him because he can just slap you to death after he dies.
Thats actually really smart idea i would feel like that could fix sion honestly but maybe buff some of his numbers early or even make his undead stronger when you get it
@@Muuony How about take W passive (health scaling) and put as his NEW Passive, and take the old passive (revive after death) and put it as a R passive? That way Sion would be forced to use R to dash in the fights or else he would not revive at all, while also making sure he wouldn't have it during early lane phase.
Idk I think the biggest issue was his ability to just take towers for free during passive, so you literally couldn’t let him near a turret or it was gone.
Once solved I think there’s no issue really. I hear people say “its un-fun or un-interactive” or even “tanks are OP”, But I think it’s blown way out of proportion. Tanks have been mostly pushed to a supporting role, unless they build a decent about of damage (With the exception of K’Sante). The only way out of the secondary support role is if you have really good wave clear (or you’re ksante).
I think people should learn to adapt their playstyle to work around sion, not just remove another tank’s ability to apply pressure in any way but peeling for your carries.
Agreed, sion is fine as is
Key word here is "was". Pretty much all the clips in the video were really old when Sion's passive could do things other than grab cs. He really does not do much to towers in passive anymore, and his ability to do damage in the passive is pretty much also gone, the opponent basically has to not know how Sion works for you to get a kill in passive
Sane and not delusional persons in here 😊
I think sions biggest issue is his power lvl with the combo of hullbreaker and demolish, which makes him incredibly toxic in Solo queue, because if your toplaner messes up, you will not be able to stop him from taking a good chunk of a tower, while potentially also just running out, with an unstoppable ult.
Im sure he’ll be weaker next season, with hullbreaker becoming more autoatack focused and losing its resistances. Sion need an item that gives him Resis from somewhere else now.
And the high Resi items next reason are all more back loaded, like FON and jak sho.
As a Sion otp, I'm not quite sure, I think his split pushing power will actually increase, this is because they are removing gargoyles, nerfing hullbreaker and titanic, I think that me and other Sion players will look at them basically removing 3 of his most important items and say, go bruiser instead, im for example already thinking a steraks rush will be amazing along with the new sunderer item which will make it so Sion actually has sustain, I think next patch Sion's splitting power will actually go up, while his teamfighting will decrease
For me, the problem with the inting sion playstyle is purely on how the bounty system is disporportionately affected by kills instead of the actual relative strength of a champion. Other than that, it's not really about sion, but about how riot decided that tanks should be able to have damage and the defining stat of a tank that they chose to scale every tank item with is max/bonus HP
I definitely feel like the issues with sion are system issues, not champion ones. The bounty system, turret gold and items are all the reasons he can be unfun to play as or against. Enemy champion builds bork or divine? Unfun for sion. Bounty system ensures he always has a hold advantage when abused? Unfun for enemy team.
Sion's problem is the problem that curses the entirety of tanks and bruisers: You cant distinguish them anymore
He was a tank for most of his existance, building Sunfire, Visage, Randuim, even Iceborn
The only true AD item he could build was Sterak for most of his career
The problem is, now bruisers have way more items, way better items, why would Sion build tank when he can build Hullbreaker, Titanic and Heartsteel? Being a bruiser he has just too much damage he never had before, obviously he would become this disgusting unbalanced splitpusher monster
as a Sion player with 1.2M mastery, from what it feels like, Sion's problem is that he cant lane normally like everyone else, if he tries he gets killed by most toplaners nowadays and then they snowball out of control, so we have use these death strategies to come out even or sometimes ahead of the enemy toplaner so that we're still in the game. Sion is very clunky compared to the roster nowadays so its only natural he has to abuse these cheeky strategies to scale and become the raid boss we all know and love.
What's wrong with having a unique laning phase though? I feel like a lot of the hate for sion comes from players that think KDA is an accurate statistic for how well someone played the game
i don't think having a unique laning phase is bad, just that this specific niche of Sion having to die to come out even with an opponent is very unhealthy for him and the games he's in, its not his fault, its riots fault for the changes they've made over the years, a change is definitely needed. He used to be a lane bully and now he feels rather weak and pointless to main in higher elo.
What really broke Sion recently where the items such as new sunfire, new titanic hydra, hullbreaker and heartsteel. Because now he has ad and sustain dmg infinitely scaling with his massive health pool.
can i just say i ALWAYS love the fire emblem 3 houses music you add to videos here and there
Maining Sion has taught me a lot: getting better cs, tempo, counting cds for outplay opportunities, not get banned. I got better at other roles and just understanding things in general cause of him
So true, same here.
2:40 Lulu was out of visual indicator and it hits lmao what a joke of a hitbox
When the new design standard is 3 paragraphs per ability with dashes resets and % damage everwhere, a fair design like Sion just ain't cutting it.
Its inting time with Sion
In fact hes the reason why I picked up Kog'maw, because he can deal with Sions health easily
But it is just so hilarious and silly how a champ can literally int the whole game and still win because of the combination of his kit, items and runes
And thats the paradox with Sion, his kit is made so that he has less power whilst alive, but can die without losing anything, removing this ability would mean he would get a passive that actually helps him in lane, I mean think about mundo passive and ornn passive
@@heart4740 But I think that would kinda delete a fair part of his identity, and many otps would be upset about losing this part..
You make it sound like into to win wasn't a thing since season 1. Singed was doing this shit for far longer than Sion did.
@@GoodGuySatan The difference is that Singed is just weak ultra and giga scales, Sion doesn't have an ability unless he dies. And also proxying isn't inting, especially not on singed where if singed as a single summoner spell up he can pretty much escape anything
@@heart4740 of course proxying is not the same as inting, I never said that. What I did say is that Singed uses outrageously aggressive and risky tactics. It wasn't uncommon for Singed players to average 7 deaths per game while maintaining 60+% winrate. The strategy regarding Singed oftentimes meant that actually dying while pulling resources from enemies was better most of the time. It's worth to add that Riot has slowly made this playstyle weaker overall with time.
I di agree there were some differences though. WHile Singeds goal was pulling enemy team down, Sion just keeps himself equal or ahead. Also it is common for Singed to go for executes before he gets caught which inflates his deaths a lot.
Nothing, he's perfect.
I absolutely love Sion. In a world of a billion dashes, parries, immunities, and overloaded bullshit, he's just a big chongus who yells a lot. I'll celebrate a thousand Sions in my matches before I celebrate one Yone.
well said agree
Sion is weak right now, but pre-nerfed Baus mimic Sion was way more annoying to deal with. RNG Sions that solo lose or solo win games aren't fun.
I'd celebrate a single yone before I celebrate a single sion
yeah bro its really epic when yone presses E with perma MS buff, misses every ability and still kills u@@bullettime1116
Yes because getting thousands of health just for existing is such a fair thing
I main him and there's so many anti tank items in the meta right now playing any tank feels useless when there's 3 or 4 people building BORK, liandries, or kraken slayer. If no one bothers to build any of that then sure sion will run the sideline over and win the game, but almost any champ can build a tankbuster.
I think the removal (well rework) of hullbreaker and the titanic hydra change will definitely help with the problems Sion is experiencing
While titanic will hurt him , hullbreaker could still be used and now he can go jaksho and heartsteel at the same time
@@Gorecatto Hearsteel will have way less value because Titanic passive doesn't exist anymore. And the item might get nerfed I guess ? Since it's not a mythic anymore.
Also, Hullbreaker will be useless on Sion since it doesn't give any Res anymore.
While the theories outlined here are pretty much what us sion mains rely on, here is the counterargument...
Sion is countered by almost every top laner in the game. If the top laner has a cc or displacement ability, sions q is worthless - should be released early thus not allowing for knockup. 2nd while sion stacks health really well, you have 2 items that basically make thay work against him (BORK or Sunderer). If any champ on enemy team can use those effectively, good bye split push sion.
Sion is only frustrating to play against when youre playimg against someone whos been maining this champ for a looong time. It tool me till at least 150k mastery to be able to have a playable lane against a darius for example and even now if that darius is any good i will need to play on mismatching his macro to win. No way to win on 1 v 1. And this is not mentioning a bork yone, bork + divine jax, fiora, vayne, gwen... Etc
TLDR Sion sounds broken on paper, but if the person behind him doesnt have good macro hes useless.
I think the passive is not that much of a problem since they deleted Claw.
You know what we want, we know that you what to do it. So why delay it? RIDE THE HELL WUTH EVERYTHING WRONG WITH YONE!!!
I genuinely miss old sion, that was my original main. I've always wanted an ultimate skin that was like, a throwback to his old look or something
I see ma boy Sion I give like, and yes its absurd the amount of gold value you get only by existing
Gotta love the proxy farm either i waste minions trying to kill sion or im forced to collect cs under tower and taking significant tower damage such a fun scenario
I completely agree, the main issue being he doesnt play by the standard rules of LoL. If you kill a toplaner, they cant do anything, miss CS, you get a tower plate etc. But with him, if you are melee and you just killed him you are probably dead too, and so is the wave. He doesnt get punished no matter what he does, he can do whatever BS he thinks of and still get value, which is inherently wrong.
7:00 The bausen law ch. 2
The other big thing that Sion effectively 'checks' is whether or not your top laner knows macro plays or not. Since the amount of top champs that are easily capable of chewing through his hp and 1v1ing him are really high, it can often be about whether or not your top laner can actually be bothered to contest side lane against him. If they don't? Well say good-bye to your side towers, and since League nowadays is more of an ego-competition than a team game, nobody wants to feel compelled to be on 'Sion-sitting' duty.
Riot implemented many mechanics that Sion just happened to have benefited from tremendously after his release. Titanic Hydra dealing bonus damage based on HP, Bounties giving him tons of gold for feeding his opponent and then killing him in response, tower plates granting him gold just for shoving lane quickly, new runes giving him easy stats and the ability to shove lane and apply pressure better, new items that synergize with certain splitpushing playstyles, and several more.
Riot accidentally cultivated a monster of a champion that takes all the toxic uninteractive gameplay of Singed, but adds more BS by making him straight unkillable after a certain point. And where he is now, there’s not much they can do to roll it back
when adc build rapid fire canon and stattik shiv and then complain about sion being unkillable.
ever heard of Lord Dominik ? Serylda of the Three Sister ? Ruined King Viego ?
I play Sion in the jungle. It feels good being able to turn around the game in late game.
Jungle Sion was one of my faves when I played this game. Always hilarious to ult, see every enemy laner start trying to figure out where I was going/where I was coming from.
...Sometimes the answer was "I just headbutted a wall/turret," cause I was never amazing at the game, but it was fun... xD
I love it but when they reduced his shield strength in the durability patch, he was significantly nerfed in jg. His W shield would exactly tank 2 hits from red or blue and then you could blow it up with like 5 hit points left on it, but the shield was reduced below that, and on top, the buff camps were given %current health damage to hit even harder, so you can't do nearly as healthy or fast of a clear by starting W anymore.
@@lunaw2174 I play on wild rift so I cant say my stratagy will help you. I pick the strike at lv1, do rocks first, and than red buff. The shield has too much cooldown to be the first ability and its %damage is only good at buffs.
The other issue is that even with tank busting items it still takes forever to burst him down and you can't really leave him alone. He takes a whole team to kill and unless you're Vayne you aren't really gonna out damage him or avoid what he does in return.
I haven't played legue in years yet I always come back for these videos
Pretty spot on👌🏻! It is a different way to play the game which makes it very fun to play if you know what you are doing
I stand on the statement that Sion is well designed EXCEPT that passive. Literally just that
"end the game by 25 minutes or else"
And you can't even do that from the lane that Sion's in because... it's Sion.
Wholesome gigachad Sion mains when they go 0/17 and lose a game (it's because their team doesn't understand macro)
i permaban sion because laning against him is genuinely one of the most unfun experiences in any game i’ve ever played 😊
Sion is gains basically so many Ressources through soul furnace and glory in death and is so strong in normal combat that there it will you cannot get ahead against him with the wrong team comp. Destroying him requires basically by design more than one champ because of his raid boss design but if he is split pushing in top it's not really worth doing it because then the rest of the team fights a 3 vs 4. The funny thing is, like a stat checker, he gains just incredible amounts of stats (and gold), but unlike a stat checker he is dependent on the skill of it's user. But if the user has the skill, the enemy will inevitably go into a deficit of resources - just by Sion's existence.
*Smiles as Fiora main*
There is nothing more fun but seeing sion against you. Hardly can outscale %max hp true dmg. And two of his engage abilities are countred with W. Plus he can never catch on due Fiora Q and her movement speed bonuses. And also sustain with healing from vitals.
I agree but I think it’s deserved with champs like Gwen and Vayne being allowed to exist
Sion was my first main, the first champion that I used to actually understand the game, his cc even if you get stomped in lane is always a menace in teamfights your Q can zone or peel and nothing beats ulting through the river into an enemy team doing baron
What I don’t like about sion is that he is an infinite scaler that gains what he gets from stacks (hp) on level up while pretty most of the other scalers don’t (senna, thresh). Chogath is fine because he has to put effort into getting stacks unlike sion killing 2-3 waves to get more hp then a cho ult. also senna and thresh’s stat scalings (not talking about range, crit and on hit) are pretty inline with what a normal tank/adc would have unless you are way ahead in stacks.
A big problem imo that you gloss over is also the stat sion has infinite scaling in. Unlike every other infinite scaler except swain (who has notably slower scaling), sion doesn't just get damage from his scaling. The health stat lets sion be much tankier while doing more damage, and because of how the item system has progressed health has the best item synergies. Health leads to damage, healing, shielding and even more health. Unlike veigar or nasus who will gain damage they can't turn their stacks into utility and tankiness.
lmao hp is the least gold efficient stat in the entire game. without Armor and MR, 1hp only worth 2.6 golds, meanwhile 1AD worth 35 and 1 AP worth 21 gold
and it can only be turn into damages after Titanic Hydra, which is oftenly Sion 3-4th items. also 100% of Sion damage are just flat damage with no armor/MR pen, so even if he have 500AD it will still be useless if the enemy got a plated steelcap or a zhonya
Nasus and Veigar can just itemise for ultility since 1st item. Divine sundeder give sustain and armor pen , Everfrost give waveclear, and Crowd control. not to mention both Nasus and Veigar can build tank item after Voidstaff/Serylda and wont miss out on any damages
Sion can have 3000 worth of hp stacks and it will still worth less than Veigar 300AP stack, and thats not counting the synergy magic pen or with Rabadon
Omg i have never seen sion in early days that skull hammer looks Hilarious!
Honestly, with Heartsteel, Sion became the best Split Push threath. Take Heartsteel, take demolish. You are tanky, you destroy turrets with demolish and if the enemies only send 1, you cam ignore him and destroy the turret.
Either as full tank titanic Hydra or full lethality
Sion is probably my favourite champs to play top lane, or even bot lane if I get auto filled or asked to swap.
Ive been a Sion main for a while now and I told my friend this and he agreed; Sion is just a bruiser now. I find way more successs building raw HP and AD and trying to smash as much enemy champions or structures as possible.
I'm not sure if there will ever be more viable proxy champs made. The only two I know of that gameplan around proxies is Sion and Singed. You can do it with others obviously, but those two live and breath it. We won't see champs like that in the future I don't think
Woulda been cool if you had a lil interview with the baussff.
This throws me back to an old game i had on senna. The entire enemy team was good while my jungler, top and mid kept inting for no reason, and my adc went afk minute 3. I reached 220 souls and they had a raidboss sion and a full tank aatrox. I legit got dark cleaver, mortal reminder with the 30% armor pen and a BORTK, and i was just... I was using and abusing those guys. We won because my 2/18 tryndamere ended the game while the enemy team was trying to end and i solo'd like all of them from outside their screens.
Fun times. Senna balanced sion 12000 hp is also balanced eks di
Calling permanent Stacks something "that lasts til the end of time" might be quirky, but can also be totally misunderstood for them having a timer and thus not scaling infinitely.
Rip new players watching this video
Also, you didn't mention this, but Baus almost always has a gold lead over his opponent, even if he's dying a lot. So, on top of having gold from shutdown and gold from w, he ALSO has a gold lead.
This is not a sion thing, it’s a bausen law thing. He does this on any champ he plays, not just sion.
@@SaitejaPathivadaDARKNESS bausen IS sion bro.
In just wish I could still play ap Sion I miss it and old sion was so stupid but fun just chunking someone hp with q and w or going full damage and never dying from the 100 life steal from the old r
I might need to pick this champion up
I figured out the original design of sion. He’s a pure example of Noxus at its best. Strength above all in magic and physical prowess. Perfect baseline for understanding why people follow noxus. I challenge you to explain why people follow noxus now.
With how much gold value Sion can generate in spite of how good or bad he does in the game, his just a walking undying conundrum - damned if you do, damned if you don't - whatever you do you essentially can't stop Sion from doing what he wants to do be it farming or pushing, and that's probably the most frustrating part about playing against him; unless the player is just actively running it down, killing or interacting with Sion in the end really doesn't matter.... he'll clear waves and demolish turrets the same whether his 0/10 or 10/0
- I personally find that a single simple direct nerf would make a huge change for the good and counteract inting sion, making it so Glory in Death would have a debuff where it starts ticking down health drastically faster when you die repeatedly in a short amount of time ('short amount of time' as in a debuff that would be applied when dying within multiple minutes when we're talking about deaths) - sort of like Kassadin Riftwalk or Kog'Maw Living Artillery and how they stack up in manacost the more you spam the move within quick succession - so you would be discouraged from abusing the zombie state by just constantly ramming down the lanes and dying while clearing waves and chipping away at turrets - I'm certainly no game designer so I don't claim this to be a perfect solution, but having this sort of *_"speed-limiter"_* felt like it would made sense here
Sion is not an unbalanced champion, or has anything wrong with it. Its kit all works out to do one thing, andevery ability helps eachother. He offers counterplay with his ability, wich otherwise would be gamechanging, but also makes you think about macro and objectives. Is a champion that has a single role and one goal in the game, and works hard to reach it. Has a well enough kit to inspire creativity, a simple set of abilities easy to recognise and work around, both with and against, and like every specialist, is fun to play with to learn what you have to do to do its job right.
sion players arent humans and i stand by this
It’s really the introduction of the mythical and item changes at that time that broke sion. Before the item changes thebauffs was basically the only person abusing sion and it was lethality sion back then. After mythics is when they started nerfing both his ad and tank builds
Counterpoint, Cho'gath was my go-to Sion counter, the best way to put down a bully is being an even bigger bully. Sion can't land any of his moves if you're constantly hitting him with your Q and W, plus that amount of bullying keeps him off the minions and keeps his passive in check since you can knock him up again and waste the time of his passive. And Cho scales with Sion in the same way except Cho can get much tankier than Sion can handle even in late game.
ppl are capable of some impressive levels of mental gymnastics when they get their egos checked by "inting sion". love these videos marketed towards the bottom 90%, comments make for better content than the actual videos.
Laning against Sion is really annoying you kill him early and passive gives him gold and xp then he teleports back to lane. It feels impossible to get a decent back without teleport and even if you do he is around 6 by that point and ults to lane to maintain pressure. Feels impossible to get him out of lane and punish him.
I had a game with a Vayne who just kept spam killing the splitpushing Sion and she racked up over 100,000 damage by the end.
sion is far from an auto-win champ, the player needs a lot of macro, and game knowlage, and a team who can play around him, and he can be countered by the enemy team also knowing his capabilities, and gameplan. i think that sion has a lot of power when used to its maximum, but often isnt, very much like any hard champ these days.
Also there might be a mistake about the shutdown system, because it doesnt take gold diff into account, it is based around mainly kills and assists, then to a lesser degree farm, but turret gold, and platings dont really add to that. so a sion going 1/7 with 200 farm, and 4 platings, can have the same or more gold, than his opponent, but his opponent will have a shutdown, so when he makes a mistake sion will have more gold. this isnt because his W gold value alone, its mostly riots system awardig that playstyle, and the very few people who play that way.
overall i think having a few champs whose whole gameplan isnt just kill the enemy and win is really great, LoL isnt a team deathmatch, so realising how much value a life, or a good death can have for you and the enemy is true for every champ, but maybe mostly for sion. His passive might be the one that bends this mechanic the furthest, (after akshan resurrect…) but i see its power more as a balance problem, not a design one, his whole kit fits well, it can work really well, or just terribly, depending on how its used, and how is it countered
M7 Sion main here. I do very much agree that power creep is kind of put my boy in a very bad situation. It feels like every week I hear about a new Champion or item that gives percent max Health true damage. Me playing as much of this character as I have has made me fear the French
Sion problem in 1 sentence: his gain many benefits from dying but only way to prevent this its "not killing him" wich obviosly not a good designed way of counterplay
I'm no game designer, but wouldn't a potential way to partially fix Sion be to make it so when he is in his passive death form, he doesn't get stacks of his W from killing minions? I mean, I know that's not a huge nerf, but it would make his early so much more about skill expression since you could no longer just int for passive stacks, unless you are skilled enough to kill an entire wave before the opponent can stop you. Late game that isn't hard for him, but early on when his Q at max power still doesn't kill melees, much less cannons? I feel like it could be a big help.
That would break the champion, you would be removing the passive, they already made it so you cant damage turrets in passive and you cant get kills unless the opponent straight up runs at you, you would make him a champion with 3 abilities, hes already at like a 47% winrate, I don't think removing an ability would help his case
@@heart4740 It wouldn't be a removal of his passive by any means. He'd still be able to farm CS while dead, still be able to get kills against most top laners since they are so immobile, and still being a threat during a teamfight.
@@dudewatevs56 Hes basically already unable to get kills in passive against pretty much all top laners, this is because there is delay between when he dies and the passive activation. This means the enemy has 1.5s to walk away before you can start moving, the one ability you have gives 67% more speed sure, but it's decaying over 2.3 seconds, meanining its constantly decreasing. What that essentially means is that so long as an enemy just walks backwards, you're not catching them. And no, no one dies in order to get passive stacks, people who play Sion die to fix the wave, but you're essntially handing out a nerf to a champion who is already one of the weakest top laners in the game to make him scale less, even though his powerspike is in the midgame and falls off in the late game. The passive can't do much to turrets, and after recent nerfs you can't really get kills in it anymore, and you want to take away what is essentially one of the last usages of this passive.
No Sion player is dying in order to get passive stacks, they are getting passive stacks and fixing the wave in spite of dying
@@heart4740 You are ignoring the point entirely. I'm not saying Sion players just always int to get stacks, but that they shouldn't BE getting stacks when they are dead for any reason. His passive is extremely strong, and can be used to great effect, but the problem is that fixing waves, getting CS, and having very good kill potential, is already good enough. He doesn't ALSO need to be stacking health while dead.
And you can keep saying his passive is useless for getting kills on champs, but I'm just gonna say right now that you are 100% wrong. Sure, in a true 1v1 it's unlikely you will get one, but that isn't the majority of fights in league, even in top lane. Usually you are going to be team fighting, and team fights draw a ton of CC. That CC is gonna make your passive an easy way to get tons of damage or even kills on the enemies. Hell, you can literally see in the video several clips of people dying to his passive due to a skilled Sion, as well as good teamwork.
@@dudewatevs56 No, what you are saying is let's take the weakest part about Sion's kit which has gotten nerfed like 4 times since he actually was at a 50% winrate because it's so toxic (this was understandable, being allowed to run into tower and die 50 times in a row is not good game design) and make it even worse, and no, his passive is not very strong, it's only useful for fixing waves after you're dead, sure you can get a kill every once in a while, but that's on the rarer side. And yes, in a teamfight his passive can work well, IF you choose to build damage instead of doing a more traditional tank build, In my most recent game I got 2 kills in passive in a team fight for example, but that is also one of the rare games where I went heartsteel into titanic, which is a damage build and not a tank build. If you have let's say Jak sho and sunfire you're barely going to do damage in that passive, and even something like titanic hydra is something Sion won't be able to abuse next patch in order to get milage from his passive. The simple fact of the matter is that the enemy top laner is splitting, you have to match him, during which its going to be a 1v1, and in such a case, as in 90% of the game, you're never going to be able to use your passive to get kills if the enemy just walks backwards after killing you.
And yes, you're right, he doesn't need to be stacking while dead, but why would you put Sion in a worse position than he already is as a champion on the weaker side. You want to give him less stats just for the heck of it
Sion is a stat checker
Made or broken by the itemisation of the last seasons
Maaaaan I love Sions so much. He is so good in what he is meant to do: sell that raid boss/immovable object yet at he same time unstoppable force fantasy. His kit is so well designed all his abilities are skill expressive to some extend and difference between good adn bad Sion is like night and day, well apart for his passive. Even as Sion main (used to be top 10 Sion player in eune for seasons 10-11) I hate his passive. I see the value it provides but it just doesn't feel good to use, like I don't wanna die to win to the point I underutilize his passive. I know, when you want to get better and rank up, you need to use all available resources and opportunities your champ/situation provides and it provides a lot for player that know how to pilot him. But man, imho its not fun at all. From design/lore perspective it makes some sense, like when u take down the boss but then he enrages, drop his defense and just try to do one last attack to take you down. Personally it doesn't realyl fit juggernaut like boss but I can see it in some MMO or RPG.
Also I don't blame Bauss for popularizing Inting SIon Strat, you do what you gotta do to climb/entertain in his case. But it made bad name for regular Sion players to the point your team refuse to help you when you die in lane bcs you are Bauss fan boy inting their games.
Yeah his passive is the thing that really brings his counterplay down the drain in most cases, as a sion in passive can freely farm or hit an unsuspecting champ without being punished because he's dead already.
if you want that fantasy but don't want to play Sion, play Mordekaiser
9:50 Max health scaling is way better and than bonus health, it would synergy better with max health instead of bonus health
It's mostly just the bounty system, hullbreaker, and demolish. All can be abused and Sion does it well.
I mean the only reason why it works so well is cause of bauffs law. You can do it on any champ, sion just is the best for it
In my opinion, as a Sion player, he has two issues, first one is that while hes alive hes made to be less efficient than other champions due to not having a passive, and second is mobility creep. Sion Q can be avoided with either a dash or a qq, if a ranged champion has a ranged cc ability, they can hold it until Sion begins charging his Q, this is for example why I use fiddle top to counter Sion when my opponent first picks my champ, ranged cc and he only has his R which he can use to kill you. What this means is that if you have a cc ability and a dash ability, Sion can not do anything to you. Let's say renekton for example, he can use e to dash out of Sion's R, and then he just needs to stay close to Sion without using his W until Sion casts Q and Sion has no counterplay.
This is why Sion has so many bad matchups, because either cc or a dash eliminates 1 or 2 of his abilities, meaning against something like renekton the only ability he can actually use against Renekton is his W. Now who does Sion do well against? Well mages and adcs. Because these champion classes really has no way to kill him, mages don't do damage to tanks, you get jak sho and 1 mr item (spirit visage usually) and mages don't really do damage to you, even if they have liandrys and sorc shoes. ADCs can kill him, champs like vayn has the cc and mobility to in addition to tank shred in her kit, most adcs dont have all of this and need 3 tank shredding items to deal with him, but at that point you're spending so much gold into dealing with one champion that its almost not worth it
Can you make “Why everyone plays Talm Kench and Senna” please, I wanna see your point of view
I feel like good Ornn player would outscale Sion, because he gets a SHIT TON of stats from his passive
The wrong thing is that he can run through my lane, past 2 turrets, and proxy, and for some reason Rito just buffed proxying
Sion is the least of leagues worries
What is the outro music being used? I like it.
Did u make a video about trundle yet D:
To me, the ultimate awnser to sion is Chogath cause he counter lots of sion problems, if not all :
Q Z cancel his Q cast, E can disable his shield at any point of the game, since it scales with max hp. Q and E can lower his passive quiclky while just keeping him away if he rushes you in lane. And the R just make it so that it is more dangerous for sion to just run into you, else you stack faster than him. (I agree that sion just stack easily than Cho, since cho free stacks stop after 6 creeps, but ignoring cho when he rushes you is very bad mistake)
Even if he tries to take creeps under your turrets, your passive is just regen on kills, he cannot outlane you at any point of the game and if he try to rush your turret, you can block him easily.
champ becomes a lot less frustrating to play against if his Q getting cancelled by cc actually did anything or if they halved the gold he gets from killing minions in Passive
7:27 That is kind of flawed kind of logic. Anyone thinking about stats to gold ratio does not take a specific champion into account, and you think about how much does that benefit to a specific character to see how valuable it is. Yes, Sion gets 104 gold worth of stats, and yes those stats are very useful to him. But it's not like he gains 104+ gold because he benefits from them. Then we'd also have to say Veigar benefits from AP, etc.
Fixing the wave for free is op enough, remove gold and exp gain from minions in zombie form entirely so they can finally fuck off with their good deaths