I believe that each one of us believes that baptism is important in regards to accepting our faith in Christ. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do believe that the correct authority is extremely important, but they also believe in baptism for the dead which ultimately gives every accountable person that ever lived an opportunity to accept the gift of baptism. With that thought, even those that did not accept Christ or even have a chance to hear about him while living, have that chance to accept him. It is a daunting work, but if your belief is that if you are not baptized, you are doomed in the afterlife, that is no longer a fear. God has a plan to care for each of his children, knowing that each is redeemable, even in our imperfect nature, according to both of the laws of Justice and Mercy. Through Jesus Christ, we have been given the best possible opportunity to return to God.
Hey Jeff! Baptism doesn't save us. Our faith in Jesus Christ and his love for us leads us to respond with doing the "will of the Father" which includes being baptized. In Acts 2:38, the apostle Peter said “Repent and be baptized, EVERY ONE of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Peter makes it clear that is what we should do and WHY, and then God blesses us with his Spirit in response to our decision.
Baptism isn't a complex topic Jeff, it's people's interpretations of it that has made the topic complex. Which is why we need a Magisterium for these kinds of quesion, Proud to be a Catholic! Glory be to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️♥️
@Compulsive-Elk7103 We need the testimonies of the apostles and prophets, the foundation, which Paul spoke, of the Kingdom and church whose maker and builder is God. No Magisterium needed.
Pastor Jeff, everything that you are describing with respect to the necessity of baptism, is essentially a latter-day saint doctrine. In my estimation. You are 100% correct. Baptism does not save in of itself. Baptism is a representation of our belief, and our willingness to follow Jesus Christ. So when you say, it is not baptism that saves, technically, that is true, but it is a contradiction in terms for someone to say they wholeheartedly believe in Jesus Christ, but on some level are refusing to follow him into the waters of baptism. You cannot have one without the other. if someone profess to believe in Jesus Christ, and then proceeds to refuse to be baptized as a symbol of that belief, then what does that say about that person‘s belief? As you know, from your many conversations with latter-day Saints, our belief in the ordinances as the power of godliness manifested amongst God‘s children is a core doctrine. We do not believe that the water itself purifies us, we do not believe that the bread and water of the sacrament itself purifies us , it is not the physical properties of these items that purifies us, it is the submission, willingness, faith, adherence to the laws of the gospel, that all represent to one degree or another, our willingness to follow Christ. In the end, the only thing we have to offer is our willingness to follow him. Therefore, the Apex of belief, is the willingness to do all things he command us to do. This is what binds together faith, and works, as taught by James. The works do not save, they manifest our belief in the one who is doing the commanding. Only God truly knows our hearts. It is not for me or for you, or for anyone to measure our degree of conversion or belief in Christ. Many of us can be bogged down in faithless works. And many others can be bogged down in professions of faith, while sitting on their couch. So many of these conversations, illustrate to me how close we are in so many ways to each other. In fact, much closer than I would have ever imagined, even though we use different language. In the end, who will be saved? Any that want to be. How do we show that we want to be? By striving to live the life that Christ lived. By following his example. By remembering him in all that we do. By exercising faith in him unto repentance, which, for me, is essentially Heavenly Father providing us a way, through Christ, to get back up when we stumble. You’re a good egg Pastor Jeff.
Thanks for taking the time to make an explanation I would have liked to have made. However you are being a little teddy bearish in the end. Faithless ordinances don't save (in fact they tend towards the opposite) but apparently baptism is pretty darn important! We might even concluded essential.
I know a person who is elderly and has some physical limitations that would make it very difficult to be baptized in a baptismal font or pool. This person is bathed by hand and can't be baptized in the way the lds church requires. What would you say to this person who has put her faith and trust in Jesus Christ? Is baptism still required for people with certain physical limitations?
Correct. Evangelicals often confuse our ordinances with "works". 1) Does baptism save? No, it is just water and getting dunked. 2) Why is it done? All ordinances are an outward expression of entering into a covenant (stronger than us making a pledge because God also pledges to us). It is the authorized way to enter into a covenant with Jesus Christ for those who choose to do so. Getting baptised without the covenant is meaningless and therefor cannot save. 3) Is baptism a commandment? Absolutely as is evidenced by multiple scriptures in the New Testament. While I agree that the New Testament can reasonably be interpreted in many ways (another good reason God instituted prophets), the parts about baptism seems very much in harmony with LDS doctrine as I read it which is what initially got me interested before joining.
It seems clear to me that the one person who didn’t need baptism but chose to set the example to be baptized was Christ showing us how much we should be baptized to show our commitment to him and desire to align ourselves with Him.
...baptism isn't done because Jesus was baptized. Baptisms should be done because you have repented of your sins and have a changed heart. Your baptism should be the natural response when God has renewed your heart...a person who has truly been born again.
Thank you! That is why priesthood is important for these sacred ordinances or it’s all just taking a dip in a pool. No authority or confirmation of Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38-41 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Evangelicals are good at using scriptures to balance out things, which means they can take one scripture as an excuse to ignore the other, which really isn't how scripture should be used.. In these conversations, Mark 16:16 is always ignored as is 1 Peter 3:21 " The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" Or, in the case of this video, an interpretation is placed on the verse to take away what it actually is saying
@@BrianTerrill But Luke 23:43 clearly indicates that one can be saved without being baptized. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity, and Jesus still said he would be in paradise.
@johnwilson8482 The thief believed and was most likely a disciple before the cross, John baptized many, perhaps this man was among them. Under Roman law there was no statute of limitations, nor did they recognize Baptism as absolvement of what they saw as a crime, so even if he had been baptized, he still had to pay in the eyes of ruthless civil authority.
@@johnwilson8482 After his death. Christ went immediately to those who were not baptized to preach His gospel to them. Joseph Smith explained that this reference to paradise was a mistranslation of His meaning. According to the prophet, the Lord actually said that the thief would be with Him in the world of spirits. Paradise is a realm for righteous spirits where they await the resurrection. The realm Christ went to is called Spirit Prison, where those who never learned of him or who were less valiant in their lifetimes go before the resurrection. I love that the Savior reaches out to those who didn’t have the chance to hear the gospel or learn of him during their lifetimes, and that they still have the opportunity to repent and change, and accept Him as their savior.
“The teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.” -Joseph Smith History
Biblical Christians all agree on the core fundamentals of Christianity, however. They all agree on who Jesus is and what the gospel/”good news” is, as the Bible is very clear on these matters when read in context. Where we disagree is on topics that are referred to in Christian philosophy as “adiaphora,” or that which has no moral or salvific merit nor demerit. These topics include things like mode of baptism, or predestination vs. free will, or on the more extreme end of the spectrum, how the Amish and Mennonites choose to generally live their lives. We can disagree on these topics because God’s Word neither condones nor condemns these decisions, but if one strays from the core teachings that God has laid out for us, it can become difficult to consider them a brother or sister in Christ.
The mic was dropped on this topic in 1830 D&C Section 22 Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Manchester, New York, April 16, 1830. This revelation was given to the Church in consequence of some who had previously been baptized desiring to unite with the Church without rebaptism. 1, Baptism is a new and everlasting covenant; 2-4, Authoritative baptism is required. 1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning. 2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works. 3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old. 4 Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.
Anyone who would argue this would argue first that Joseph wasn’t a prophet. As a current member of the LDS church I’m actually really struggling with Joseph because of things like the Kinderhook plates, Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon anachronisms, multiple first visions, etc… It makes it really hard to believe anything that subsequently followed, such as revelations in D&C, if those fundamentals aren’t resolved.
@@talibytes Yes, this is where you have to gain testimony of the purity of Christ first and foremost, and then the purity of his servants such as Joseph Smith. To understand that God is in charge. His covenants are real and beneficial to us as his children. Then with that faith and testimony your eyes will open again to see it is all real. It is the only way. Joseph was pure and all the darkness the world spits at him with their perspectives and false narratives are just that, terribly false. This is what happens to the best people. The Devil is raging and is happy to twist and darken the perspective of those who lead or have lead us. I have been through this too and am coming out on the other side fully aware and committed to God our Father and his light of truth and purity.
@@millenialhymns I do have a testimony of Jesus and His gospel. It seems to me, after months of research (mainly using primary sources) that Joseph wasn’t all he said he was. I think he was likely not a prophet but was simply sharing the things he believed in. He also did many bad things in his life but to a certain extent those things can be ignored due to him being human like the rest of us.
Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust-from prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who “will show unto you all things what ye should do.” Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal Revelation. - Russell M. Nelson
Maybe some day Jeff can explain to us why Jesus thought it very important for Him to be baptized by full immersion by one qualified to do so and who He was baptized for??
@@godsoffspring4195 We believe everyone will be given an opportunity. Because God is fair and loves all of his children. So why do some receive the opportunity in this life when some don't? That goes back to the parable of the laborer. Matthew 10: 1-16. Basically everyone has a different path. The Lord knows what we need. Life is a test. I try not to worry about the mysteries. But I believe God loves all of his people.
We follow Jesus Christ, who was baptized. Even though He was perfect, He set the pattern for us to follow. 2 Nephi 31 “5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!”
Again, with respect I think that this is a pointless dialogue. What I mean is that you can’t force Latter Day Saints to explain our doctrine from the Bible alone. We will use many scriptures from the Old and New Testament to support and give evidence to LDS doctrine, but to rely on the Bible alone just brings us down to the world of Protestant Christianity where there will be a myriad of interpretations of the same scripture. For instance read Doctrine and Covenants 18:41-42. “And you must preach unto the world, saying: You must repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ. For all men must repent and be baptized, and not only men, but women and children who have arrived at the years of accountability. And now, after that you have received this, you must keep my commandments in all things.” Read 3 Nephi, and Jesus clearly commands us to be baptized in his name 3 Nephi 27:20 “Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost”. 3 Nephi 11:33 “And whoso believe that in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. And whoso believe that not in me and is not baptized, shall be damned.” The point is - when we limit ourselves to the Bible there is debate. When we look to the revelations of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, there is no debate. Also LDS did not get our doctrine of baptism for the dead from 1 Corr 15. Joseph Smith received it from God as revelation. 1 Corinthians 15 supports that revelation by mentioning that they were being baptized for the dead, but the doctrine is in the Doctrine and Covenants. My point is that these discussions always lead to the same place: was Joseph Smith a prophet of God and is the Book of Mormon the word of God? That is the big question. Because if those questions are answered in the affirmative, then they inform our understanding of the Bible. Just like the revelation of Jesus Christ informed Paul’s understanding of Torah. Once he accepted Jesus Christ he went back to read the Torah and discovered that the entire law pointed to Christ. This is why we invite everyone to read the Book of Mormon, and with a sincere humble heart ask God if it is true and if Joseph Smith was a prophet. There is no need to limit ourselves to a debate about how this and that passage from the New Testament is to be interpreted.
Yes!!! My thoughts exactly!! I’m so grateful that the LDS missionaries came to our islands in 1920’s and preached the gospel and taught about the plan of salvation so that we can have an opportunity to repent be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Ghost by conformation by the priesthood authority. I can’t imagine having half the gospel of Jesus Christ. I would be lost forever.
I read the book of Mormon truly with a sincere and humble heart and I asked God if the book of Mormon was true and if Joseph Smith was a real prophet and they holy Spirit told me NO. What now?!
This conversation helps me to know how vital the Book of Mormon is to our belief and understanding about baptism. This is a quote from one if our general authorities, Tad callister, in the October 2011 General Conference. "The Bible is one witness of Jesus Christ; the Book of Mormon is another. Why is this second witness so crucial? The following illustration may help: How many straight lines can you draw through a single point on a piece of paper? The answer is infinite. For a moment, suppose that single point represents the Bible and that hundreds of those straight lines drawn through that point represent different interpretations of the Bible and that each of those interpretations represents a different church. What happens, however, if on that piece of paper there is a second point representing the Book of Mormon? How many straight lines could you draw between these two reference points: the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Only one. Only one interpretation of Christ’s doctrines survives the testimony of these two witnesses." As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we come to this topic from the standpoint of two witnesses.
It seems to me the Bible is more than one witness of Jesus Christ. It contains 66 books written by about 40 authors over a couple thousand years. The narrative story of Jesus's life is told four times over. In this way we have multiple witnesses, perspectives, and emphases.
Do you accept the 7 Deuterocanonical books as scripture as well? They were part of the original Bible in the 4th century but were subsequently taken out around the reformation time.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints operates with volunteers. People who dedicate their time, talents, finances, even for some their very lives to never ending service and spiritual support of both members and non-members. I served a two year mission with no pay. I now serve in our Bishopric, we spend literally thousands of hours each year blessing, serving, pondering, and praying on how we can help others in their lives. No monetary gain, no limelight. It’s commitment. It’s a covenant. Where there is no covenant of sacrifice, there is no power. Baptism represents commitment. It represents a covenant. When you make that covenant and keep it, you gain capacity, wisdom, inspiration and the ability to organize, lift, inspire and grow. Who goes to Heaven? That’s for Him to judge. Making and keeping commitments in all aspects of life….that’s Heaven for me because I feel the joy of Christlike service. Jesus Christ was committed, not just to curiosity…..but to humility. That’s the path less traveled. All are welcome to enter ant the way…. Including you Jeff! Thanks for being a kind Protestant Pastor!
@@HelloSaints Jeff - Maybe think about it this way. If baptism is required as Jesus Christ said himself, think how merciful The Savior is in having Temples on earth for baptisms to be performed for all those who did not have an opportunity to hear the gospel. Think how merciful The Savior is to those who died with no knowledge, no opportunity. Also, think of the amazing work that is happening all over the world as temples are built and Latter-Day Saints enter those temples to help others. Instead of focusing on being a Protestant all the time, just think how much more merciful A Savior is that extends mercy to all that have ever lived, a Heavenly Father that has prepared "many mansions." A gospel that does not punish so many and reward so few, a Church that is completely committed to missionary work to spread that gospel. Jesus Christ suffered to extend Mercy. All who wish to receive that invitation, to enter the waters of baptism and covenant with Him and our Heavenly Father will have that opportunity, including you Jeff. It's an invitation, none are excluded, but also none are forced. You have great potential, but it will require you thinking of things different than what you were taught at times as a young person. The crazy thing is that need for being willing to learn continues on after baptism, it's a lifelong pursuit of further light and knowledge. We can all clearly see your passion for scripture and doctrine, I just invite you to pause and think...which Jesus Christ is more merciful? The real Jesus Christ is so merciful that Our Father in Heaven had a plan to help all receive the blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ. They love us.
I like the idea of baptism as a “pledge.” I’m grateful for my own baptism and the covenants I made. My covenants provide me with rest and comfort, and also motivate me to choose to follow Christ in my everyday thoughts and actions.
Then why was Jesus baptised? John told Jesus he needed to be baptised by Jesus. Jesus then said suffered it to be so. Jesus said, if you love me Do even as I have done. Therefore baptism is to follow Jesus example.
By being baptised, we take upon us the Name of our Saviour, and always remember him, that we strive to keep his commandments, that we may always have his Spirit to be with us, Amen
God is the bank. Christ is the key. Baptism is the paperwork... Clearly only Christ can save us. But clearly he also has placed requirements on his followers. He requires faith. He requires obedience. He requires repentance. He requires baptism. I find that protestants have a hard time reconciling that in their minds as is evident here. They start to think that if a thing is required, then there must be some saving power in it, and since only Jesus can save they shy away from that thing or rationalize on the basis of "context". It is very important to differentiate between the power and the conditions. Only Christ has the power to save, but he only saves those who meet his conditions. Think of it this way. A mortgage doesnt get you into a house. Keys get you into the house. But the bank doesnt give you the keys until the paperwork is signed. God is the bank. Christ is the key. Baptism is the paperwork.
@@UTBanjo Yes! That's how the bible explains it. Unfortunately a lot of people have different ideas, viewing things from their own lens. With the doctrine of baptism there seems to be particular difficulty out in the Christian world.
@MollyF86 the thief was baptized already, all the Jews were by thar time except the Jewish leaders, Jesus rebukes the leaders this way: "29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30)
@@DallinBunnell no, baptism of the dead by proxy doesn't solve the thief on the crosses life. Christ promised him that he would be in heaven with him, not that some 1800 years later , a person stands in as proxy for him. Baptism of the dead is false. Glory be to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️♥️
The Church I was in as a kid I was taught without Baptism I go to Hell, suffice to say I never got Baptized, and then my wife screamed at me years later that I needed Baptism...eventually got baptized by my Cousin who told me it wasnt necessary, but I got baptized. Then I got a sense right before learning about the Restored Gospel that Life as I knew it was about to change. It did.
Protestant Christinity has evolved in the last 40 years, that's for sure. My grandma always lectured us on the do's and don'ts of getting to heaven and not going to hell. That church has since changed and did a 180 to the point now they teach their youth they can have sex without getting married and they'd still go to heaven. (And baptism has become optional, too) Pretty much sticking their finger in the wind and seeing what preaching will bring in the biggest paychecks is what they are doing.
@@BrianTerrill I've found the number one observation as a Latterday Saint these past few years has been a Clearly defined set of Eternal Principals. Namely two being that Gender is Eternal and Unchangeable, and that Marriage is between a Man, and a Woman according to God's Law.
@@Mormonsharing Salvation was never a question, but yes I did have several different kinds of promptings. Some were words, others were impressions to take immediate action. Followed by what would come next. But Yes I did experience a Power unlike anything I'd ever felt before that I would call The Holy Ghost.
well why then are there so many mormon denominations then? FLDS, Community of Christ, Rigdonites, etc. They all believe in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Why are there division in YOUR church? Do you use wine for sacrament? it's in the Book of Mormon?
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 so your saying since ancient times we have not received any revelation? Do you really think a loving merciful God and his son Jesus Christ will leave out this dispensation without any instructions or explanation or revelation nor do we need any help from our Father in Heaven to navigate these difficult times. I find that completely ridiculous!
@@Lola-sz8zu Christ gave us all we need, for he is the prophecy fulfilled. Follow, believe and trust in Him. Love others. Worship the father. Nobody says there would be no further revelation. However, there is a scriptural litmus test of a prophet. If any of their prophecies are untrue then they are no prophet.
One thing you should consider. Our definition of saved isn't parallel. Exaltation is different. My understanding of the mainstream view of heaven would not require baptism. From a latter-day Saint. That would be conforming to terrestrial law. Celestial law requires covenant keeping
Well honestly............................Evangelical Christianity is very confusing. I didn't understand your explanation. It seems to contradict itself. I am no more clearer in your views than I was before. I can see why Joseph Smith was confused between all the religions and was seeking an answer from Heavenly Father.
The key word in Mark 16:16 is AND. It does not say you can either believe or be baptized, it says AND. It must be both. There are so many scriptures in the Bible that either directly point to baptism as a saving ordinance or imply that it is necessary for salvation. The Book of Mormon contains many scriptures that clear up any confusion on the matter.
As always, I appreciate your sincerity in attempting to clarify a point of disagreement between traditional and restored Christianity. However, I find your reasoning from the scriptures very unpersuasive. You're right that the act of being baptized doesn't physically cleanse us, and you're right that the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is what saves us, and not our own works. But it doesn't follow from those premises that baptism is not necessary. I see no justification in the scriptures for your treating baptism as a human work, rather than (as the scriptures clearly teach) an expression of faith in and obedience to Christ. You keep saying that all we have to do is accept what Christ has done--but Christ has told us that *Baptism* is HOW we accept his atonement and enter into that covenant relationship. What's more, this video makes abundantly clear that the protestant reliance on "sola scriptura" is an inadequate approach to gospel knowledge. Meaning no personal criticism, if you can interpret the scriptures you just covered to mean that baptism is *not* necessary, clearly you can make the scriptures mean whatever you want them to mean. This is why reliance on the Bible alone inevitably results in a fractured and divided Christianity. The bible alone is clearly not sufficient to resolve even such a fundamental question as whether baptism is required for salvation. Yet if Paul or Peter was on the earth today, they could answer that question clearly. Hence the need for *living* prophets and *continuing* revelation. I'm grateful for your willingness to engage in honest cross-faith conversation. But I'm infinitely more grateful that Jesus Christ has once again called prophets and apostles and revealed the truth of his gospel in clarity and simplicity--that through these prophets and apostles we can come to a unity of faith, and no more be children carried about with every wind of doctrine. (Eph. 4:11-14)
I think there’s a difference in what Lds and others believe about how to accept Jesus. I would say that the ordinances are the way an Lds person shows they accept Jesus and his sacrifice. But the ordinances don’t save us, only Jesus does. Even evangelicals seem to believe you have to accept Jesus in some way, which is a “work” in a way. The ordinances are equivalent to whatever action or choice an evangelical would say is required to accept Christ
“We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.” A principle is a truth that guides us back to Heavenly Father. An ordinance is a sacred act that someone with the priesthood performs. These four principles and ordinances are the first we must live before we can grow in the gospel. Principles and ordinances were established anciently by Jehovah, who, when He came to fulfill all righteousness, started His ministry by establishing baptism as the ordinance that opens the gate. We cannot separate God from his ordinances and expect to progress along the covenant pathway. We may have an understanding that Christ ultimately saves us, but we may not progress along His pathway until we accept the covenants and ordinances He has laid out. I enjoy David A. Bednar who discoursed on this. "Sacred ordinances that are received worthily and remembered continually open the heavenly channels through which the power of godliness can flow into our lives. By receiving priesthood ordinances and making and keeping sacred covenants, we are yoked to and with the Savior (see Matthew 11:28-30) and can be blessed with strength beyond our own to overcome the temptations and challenges of mortality as we prepare to return to God’s presence."
It has always surprised me why people battle between faith and works. Group A throws out 5 scriptures to defend the need for works, and Group B responds with their own 5 scriptures to show how it is the grace of Jesus saves us... But the fact that there are 2 points of view, with scriptures backing up both, just proves that we need both! It's not one or the other, true grace doesn't exist without obedience, and obedience is never sufficient, because we are imperfect. We NEED Christ's grace to save us (so we truly can't boast) but it takes our agency to accept God's grace. The way we show our acceptance is through obedience. We need both. It's one thing. Those are my thoughts. Thanks Pastor Jeff for sharing yours, I am enjoying this space to learn and ask questions! Here is a true curiosity question for Pastor Jeff (or other Evangelicals) Isn't the evangelical concept of accepting Jesus and being born again technically an action? It requires agency. What makes that different from choosing to accept Jesus via baptism?
Obedience, commandments, and works don't save us. Without them though, there would be nothing through which we could exercise, increase, or show our faith. Works don't save us, but works develop faith. and its through faith in Christ that we receive his grace.
By characterizing the argument as faith vs works, it makes it sound like the works side doesn't believe in grace. That's absurd! The "works" argument is that there's a need for both as articulated in James. I've never met anyone who believes that works alone save someone.
I totally agree,@@FLanklinBadge. Works are how we exhibit and increase our faith. without works, there'd be no faith, and without faith, there'd be no grace.
Why the problem? Christ tells us what to do. It's free. We must do what he says so it will work. His grace is telling us what to do. Our "works" are simply doing what he tells us to do. If we do, we get the Father's promise.
Dead people cannot 'accept Jesus.' Ephesians 2 says that everyone is born dead in their sins, children of disobedience, children of wrath and without hope in the world. It is God that awakens the dead and grants them the ability to repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 It is the gift of God.
Not gonna lie, this video left me wanting. Seems more confusing. I’m grateful to have the simple and clear understanding that the restored gospel offers.
This makes me feel so sad because pastor Jeff still has not received the fullness of the gospel. I can’t imagine living a life with all the answers from our faith yet he provides the bare minimum.
Yeah it also make me more confuse and I tried my best to make sense of what pastor Jeff explaining. I'm also grateful to have the restored gospel it give me peace of mind.
@@Lola-sz8zu The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile all mankind to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died and rose again. Christ said, "It is finished." The debt has been paid. Christ requires perfection to get into heaven. You need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect. The truth is that no matter what anyone does, they could never measure up to God's standard of perfection. Christ never required anyone to believe the Book of Mormon is true, believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, join a church, go through a worthiness interview, confess sins to a bishop, earn forgiveness, get a temple recommend, go through a masonic Endowment Ceremony, put on Lucifer's power and priesthoods, learn secret grips, tokens, signs, handshakes, and passwords, get married, do temple work, wear temple garments, don't drink coffee or tea, etc.. Imagine Christ collecting 10% of people's income and checking for valid temple recommends at the temple doors? Salvation is quite simple. Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them.
I was born and raised LDS and I’m not sure why you guys are finding Pastor Jeff’s beliefs here to be “Christless” and “hopeless.” His beliefs point firmly to Jesus’ Atonement to save us all and that through that we have hope. Baptism is something we do to proclaim our beliefs, not to be converted or saved. It’s a representation that we are talking on ourselves His name. Where is the “Christlessness” and “hopelessness” in that?
I think there is a misunderstanding regarding the scripture you offered in Titus 3:5 wherein it is quoted as saying "he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." The washing of rebirth and renewal takes place through baptism and then partaking of the sacrament. The baptism of Jesus Christ was an example wherein Christ told us that he did "this to fulfill all righteousness." In other words, because baptism is a commandment, he set the example to keep all commandments of the Father.
@@HelloSaintsin regards to this scripture (Mark 16:16), why would anyone be baptized if they didn’t believe? Doesn’t baptism naturally follow true belief (and is still required)? If you don’t believe, then you intuitively won’t be baptized. Still, the second sentence does not negate the first. “He who believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” - this is pretty clear.
@@zefrauzo The laws that were transgressed was the Law of God given through Moses. Changing the ordinances references to how the laws of the God of Israel were misappropriated - not baptism for the remission of sins which did not exist until John the Baptist.
@@chrishumphries7489 What about people who believe but do not have the opportunity to be baptized?? If someone accepts Christ and dies soon after, or is in a situation where they cannot be baptized (war), do you believe they won't go to heaven??
@kevins4254 This is exactly why we have baptisms for the dead. Here is what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has to say about baptisms for the dead: "Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf. Jesus Christ said, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). Even Jesus Christ Himself was baptized (see Matthew 3:13-17). Many people have lived on the earth who never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ and who were not baptized. Others lived without fully understanding the importance of the ordinance of baptism. Still others were baptized, but without proper authority. Because He is a loving God, the Lord does not damn those people who, through no fault of their own, never had the opportunity for baptism. He has therefore authorized baptisms to be performed by proxy for them. A living person, often a descendant who has become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is baptized in behalf of a deceased person. This work is done by Church members in temples throughout the world. Some people have misunderstood that when baptisms for the dead are performed, deceased persons are baptized into the Church against their will. This is not the case. Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church. The New Testament indicates that baptisms for the dead were done during the time of the Apostle Paul (see 1 Corinthians 15:29). This ordinance was restored with the establishment of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Baptisms for the Dead, Topics and Questions,).
Talking about Corinthians and the letter to them. Paul is writing to those who are members of the church. Therefore, his language is going to be in that manner. So when he says that I did not come to baptize you, he is speaking about his role and their ongoing progression into the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Pastor Jeff as a Latter-day Saint I’m super grateful for you and your channel. I feel I have a better understanding of evangelical Protestant faith. Thank you. As for baptism, I agree that it is ultimately Christ that saves us. That is actually how I have always read “after all we can do, it is by grace we are saved”. It’s Christ who saves us, not our works. I do look at baptism and other covenants we make much like the Israelites who were commanded to look and live. It was important to look at the serpent to be saved, but it wasn’t the serpent that saved them, rather the faith in God and his commandment to be obedient to his command. This is why I think Sister Freeman’s talk, which you wonderfully reviewed, is important for today’s Latter-day Saints. We need to remember that it’s about Christ that we do these things and not just checking off boxes. Thank you again.
... ordinances like baptism are still a part of Christ's beckoning of Him to "Come, follow me". Ultimately it's He who is mighty to save, and it is our choice to follow Him or not (that's OUR choice and work, not His). We are only yoked to Him or reconciled to God when we choose to follow Him. Following Him takes work! After all that work which we can do, it's still only He who has the keys to our salvation and He has declared the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, is through following Him into the waters of baptism. It's something He has done and is something we CAN do, too. Why would we NOT follow the Savior into the tokens of our covenants to yoke ourselves to Him on our way back to God?
@@traviswaithmair4809 I don't think that what is being said is that he doesn't believe baptism is an essential ordinance. He's simply building a bridge with Pastor Jeff that shows we can agree that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Baptism is an essential ordinance along the covenant pathway, and we know that. It isn't essential to believe in Christ, but it is essential to yoke ourselves to Him. He established that, and nobody will take that away. I do believe this good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is building a bridge with the intent to help show the way, not tear down Christ's perfectly clear covenant pathway. Much love. 💕
Pastor Jeff is wonderful. The ideas he defends and explains in this video (1) are clearly false, and (2) show the importance of continuing revelation through living prophets rather than reliance on past scripture alone. Imagine someone in Moses' day saying "the brazen serpent is not what heals us from these snake bites--it is our faith! That's why we DON'T NEED TO BOTHER LOOKING AT BRAZEN SERPENT..."
The day I was baptized, I witness, that I was washed inwardly and outwardly. I actualy felt my filth qualified to be removed from me, being buried in the water, as I surfaced out of the water. There is a glow on the countenance of those who are baptized under the Authority of the Priesthood. Many pentecostal converts have shared with me feeling the same experience I did. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I want to thank you for this journey. I am rather young, but have already have experienced persecution and hatred for my beliefs. Your respectful questions and civil manner of disagreement is wonderful and refreshing. Again, thank you so much.
These discussions are interesting, but will always lead back to the same place: without priesthood authority and continuing revelation man’s interpretation of scripture will always be varied and confusing. This is exactly why Joseph Smith went into the grove and saw what he saw and was told what he was told. All the pastors of his day had their own interpretation of the Bible and even a young uneducated farm boy could see that was a big problem.
I don't think any Latter-day Saint believes that baptism saves us, but they do believe that choosing not to get baptised damns us, a choice that we'll all have to make at some point before our resurrection.
Let's remember that the word "damn" simply means "to stop". We are damned when our progression stops and it stops UNTIL we are baptized, back on the path, following the Savior's example. Why was Jesus baptized? -----certainly he did not NEED it..... he was setting an example of what and HOW this ordinance was to be performed.
I think the guy who thought he was quoting (or paraphrasing) Mark was actually paraphrasing Christ in the Book of Mormon "Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day." (3 Nephi 27:20) The doctrine that is taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't actually teach that baptism saves us because it is only in and through the blood of Christ and by His name that we are saved (Mosiah 3:16-18). It teaches that we must be baptized to be able to enter into The Father's presence. Baptism is the first fruits of repentance (Moroni 8:25) and is the first step the repentant will take to follow Christ (2 Nephi 31: 17-18) and, formally, take upon them His name (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 51)... so baptism doesn't save, it is a faith-filled repentant act that formally takes upon us His name and without it, we cannot become priests of the Most High (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 57) nor enter the Celestial Kingdom of God to dwell in the presence of God and His Christ (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 62). Without baptism, we will be saved. We will be among those who receive the presence of the Son, but not the fullness of the Father (Doctrine and Covenants 76:76-77). This goes back to our belief in those three kingdoms of glory that you have mentioned before. I would strongly recommend you read all of Doctrine and Covenants section 76 to get a full scope of the difference. To put it simply, in order to be saved from sin, you must have Faith in Christ enough to believe that repentance has merit, those who repent earnestly will feel to sing the song of redeeming love and receive a remission of their sins because of the grace of Christ. By this grace, they are saved from sin, and by the merits of His resurrection, they will be saved from death. They will not feel the pains of Hell when looking forward to the resurrection and judgment because their guilt will be swept away by their faith in Christ and when they do come into His presence for the final judgment, they will be glad. Those who feel this remission of sin will naturally want to dedicate their lives to following Him and to do that, they should be baptized to formally take upon them His name and receive the Gift of The Holy Ghost, thereby entering into a covenant with God and receiving more of His grace to enable to them do His works. Without that covenant relationship, they cannot become members of His church nor continue with God in His Father's house after the resurrection. Those who follow Christ in this way will be made "perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood." (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 69) Because we view the goal of mortality to be not only saved from sin and death but exalted to become like God through His perfection, we view baptism as a requirement.
Charis, the word usually used and interpreted as “grace,” actually means a 2-way obligatory promise, whereby one person freely gives something, and the other person, out of gratitude, responds to the giver in a dutiful way.
It is important that we not overthink the doctrine of baptism and not quibble about what we assume is the context of one scripture verses another. Jesus himself, despite being perfect, needed baptism to enter the Kingdom of God and was baptized by John the Baptist, as described in Matthew 3. End of discussion.
Here's the doctrine of Christ my friends: □Faith in Jesus Christ □Repentance □Baptism □Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost □Enduring to the end
It seems to me if we were to use the same reasoning you do about baptism, we wouldn't need to follow any of the commandments. In the whole context of the Bible we are free from doing any of those things, just like we are free from being baptized, because Christ did it all for us through the Atonement and Resurrection. I agree that, after all we can do, we are saved only by the Atonement of Christ. We could be baptized and follow every commandment and still not be saved except and through the great Mercy of Christ's Atonement. The commandments to be baptized, to not kill, to not lust, love thy neighbor, etc., etc. are acts that prove our devotion to Christ. They also bring us closer to Him, to know His character, to grow in love and indebtedness to Him. Done in the right spirit they change us from the Natural Man to someone who will be able to abide Christ's presence. I have known from a young age that Christ's Atonement is the only thing that saves us but it was not until I tried to follow all his commandments, including baptism, that I increased my connection and love to Him. I have become a better person. I have shaken off some of the shackles of the natural man the process. I believe the commandments and many references to the need for baptism are for us to help us grow and change.
I think what we all talk over each other about on salvation and works is how we understand the three degrees of glory. You all believe in one heaven and one hell, whereas we believe in the three “levels” of Heaven. We are all saved from original sin and will not be condemned for Adams transgressions, we are not saved in our own sins. We do not have to be baptized to enter the telestial kingdom, children under the age of 8 and those that do not have the presence of mind to be able to accept and be baptized will enter the celestial kingdom, we have to do more to get into the other two kingdoms, but not to boast of ourselves but to glorify God.
Good info! Thanks for the video! Another good reason why relying on the Bible only is a bad idea. The more scripture you have the easier it is to find the truth.
What we do (faith, repentance, baptism, endure to the end) QUALIFIES us for a salvation we cannot earn for ourselves. We do not earn salvation (satisfy the demands of justice), nor can we. This easily encompasses all of scripture.
Glad to see Jeff broaching the topic of baptism. For a discerning LDS christian, I think his explainations of baptismal proof texts really showcase the tendency for eisegesis among evangelicals. Taking these verses at face value makes it clear that baptism is a means of grace. While Pastor Jeff may hold to a sola fide position (faith alone) that he claims should exclude baptism from justification, I think it's worth pointing out that Martin Luther, the man who coined the five solas, believed ardently in baptismal regeneration. Teaching baptismal regeneration is not overemphasizing the importance of baptism, its the proper teaching of Christ's doctrine. Also, dropping that little hint that our temple baptisms are some kind of pagan practice is most unappreciated. While I can get behind evangelicals on rejecting infant baptism and (for some of them) on the mode of full immersion, overall it would seem that evangelicals have an incredibly poor take on baptism.
Thank you. Please explain why Jesus was then baptized? He didn't need a pledge... 2 Nephi 31 gives a pretty good explanation. I'd love to hear why there's so much disagreememt amongst evangelicals for John 3:5 and why that’s seemingly okay. If you've been to Rome, early Christianity practiced baptism for the dead... not just Corinth. Paul's casual reference of baptism for the dead was accepted in the day. Paul didn't condemn it... he likely introduced it.
Pastor Jeff brings up a great point. Baptism is commanded to us by Jesus. Are there any consequences when we do not do what Jesus Christ asks of us? Mark 16:15-16....If you believe in Christ... Then this belief leads to baptism. That's a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at. There are no hoops to jump through. No trying to reinterpret or reinvent meaning. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you will be baptized in his name. If you don't believe you will obviously not choose baptism and you will be condemned. How do you twist the meaning of the words? People mock members of the church of Jesus Christ for pulling the same mental acrobatics you do yourself. What does it mean to be saved? Pastor Jeff said that it is resurrection and being cleaned from sin so that we can be brought back in to the presence of God. We believe being saved is being saved from eternal death. Bringing our spirits back in to our bodies and being resurrected. Christ is champion over death. Furthermore through the atonement of Jesus Christ we can repent and be saved. What does that mean? We can repent of our sins believing in Christ and following his example to be baptized in his name. Without Christ, we cannot be cleansed from our sins and be brought back in to the presence of God. However, this is our choice. Christ can't force us to experience all of the promised blessings God has in store without us first opening the door that is baptism. I would like to reiterate the discussion i prefer to have; are there any consequences to not doing what Jesus Christ asks of us? What does it mean to ignore Jesus Christ? Does it mean we don't love him? Do we really believe in Christ if we don't do what he asks? Do you trust in Christ? We must do ALL that Christ asks use to do to experience the full blessings provided by God through his son, Jesus Christ.
I love the reference to the flood because even the Earth had to be immersed in water in order to become a new Earth in the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
@HelloSaints (Edited for grammar corrections only) Jeff, I appreciate everything you do on this channel. I will add somethings that are on my thoughts. Firstly, Acts 2 is pretty direct. And taking that in congruents with both Mark 16 and 1 Peter, I find this pretty clear. Now, when you incorporate that Jesus himself, being our example, went to one holding authority, being his cousin John, and receives baptism. Jesus' conversation with John states, in the king james version, Matt 3:14 - 17 "But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest though to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus if becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him." I shan't continue quoting beyond this... I'm also certain, you, who is highly educated, knows the verses of which I Reference. Here comes my point, based on your opinion and what you see as the LDS perspective, who is right and how are you able to get to the truth. Opinion and cross referencing is nice, on both sides, but can't get to the ACTUAL truth. The only source of truth is found from the truth giver only. Meaning, there is no disputation when it comes directly from God and not from interpretation. Does this mean the LDS version is the correct version OR that the Protestant version is correct? It does not, it does mean that one authorized to speak for the LORD, or the Lord themself, must answer the question directly. The rest falls short. AMOS 3:7 comes to mind. Prophets are needed to answer the actual question. Do I feel a regular person can be quickened by the spirit and receive the actual answer, yes. And that would literally turn them into a Prophet. Again sir Jeff, I respect you greatly and appreciate all you've done. These are just things to think on, not trying to educate or convince. Thanks again
I hope one day Jeff sees the light. Baptism is soooooo important that Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptized, and John felt unworthy to baptize Jesus saying that Jesus should baptize him, and Jesus said suffer it to be so, that it shall fulfill all righteousness. And if Jesus that was sinless had to be baptized then how much more do we need to be baptized. Baptism is the first covenant that we make to join with the heavens government on earth.
Interesting, the excuses evangelicals have for not doing what Christ and Heavenly Father command about meeting their criteria for entrance to their kingdom through baptism.God sets the entrance/inheritance criteria, not men or their interpretations. Justifying your philosophy doesn't cut it, it's what God says counts that counts. See DC: 22.
If baptism isn’t necessary then why did Jesus tell his apostles to preach repentance and baptism? You said it is a command then I would say if the Lord commands something then it should be very important and necessary.
Remember the story of Naaman who had leprosy and the prophet Elisha told him to wash himself seven time in the river Jordan but Naaman did not like that method and was angry. Elisha's 'servant' asked him to try and and he finally did and was healed. Please consider how simple it really is.
The powerful spirit at the temple when being baptized for the dead is so undeniably strong that I can’t fathom it being just for the people of Corinth to appease their pagan beliefs. In any case, I find it interesting that you are looking to learn and find similarities between the Evangelical and LDS church. Part of me still doesn’t get why but I appreciate your good intentions. All the best!
@@alumniadri8716 anyone that brings people to Christ is good, comparisons are not good. All the best to you. So happy we believe in the same Jesus Christ who was sent by a loving God, as His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have Everlasting life. 🫶🏼
@alumniadri8716 Please explain what you mean. As a Protestant for the first 35 years of my life and a Latter-day Saint for the last 25 years, I'm eager to hear about the Jesus you know and how He differs from the Jesus I know.
So TRUE when my husband was baptized for my uncle we could feel his presence and little things that happened helped us to know he was there and accepted the Gospel
@@alumniadri8716 I’ve done baptisms for my dead in the temple and can only say that it’s a beautiful experience that is sacred. I know the real Jesus Christ as far as I, a sinner, can in this life. I never realized how much we have in this amazing restored gospel of Jesus Christ until I listened to Hello Saints. How can I explain all of this to another, while at the same time conveying the life changing experiences it has to offer? I just know it’s true and I, too, urge you to know for yourself.
The Holy Spirit is only received after we are baptized, so the verse that your referring in the beginning of the video is has so many many meanings, we can feel the spirit, but the Holy Spirit is only received after we are baptized, the covenants are necessary to reconcile with Christ, not only because I’m good man and accept Christ, and forget everything that Christ mentioned, that’s why we believe in the Book of Mormon , because seen like you have partial knowledge, like the Jews , when Christ came to the world, every one believe in the Old Testament only, now you believe, Old Testament and New Testament, but you still have partial truth, but keep it up , you will get there , if not here , later in the millennium ……please read Moroni chapter 8 in the Book of Mormon about baptism of kids and 3 nephi 11 and 12 Christ commands every one to be baptized
I have a testimony of baptism by the proper authority. When you get baptized by one who has been commissioned of Jesus Christ you can feel that it is true and valid in his sight. He offers it to everyone! Those alive and those who have died. It is a necessary ordinance to receive Eternal life.
My baptism was the most joyful day of my life, because the Holy Spirit was so beautiful and confirmed my sins were forgiven. I was truly born again and in full union with God once my baptism was completed with receiving the gift of the HG. I experienced the full power of this ordinance and it still blesses my life to this day. Had i declined it I would have missed so much healing and blessings. Sorry Pastor Jeff, on this occasion your interpretation of scripture just doesn’t stack up.
Jeff we do not believe that it is the Baptism is what is saving. We believe that Baptism is what is needed to enter into the covenants required to obtain salvation. I view it like this, do I take Jeff’s interpretation of scripture, having no authority to interpret scripture? Or do I listen to Prophets called by God to tell us the Will of God? I have had a lot of conversations with evangelicals and one thing I have noticed is they love to mention “context” to insert their own personal interpretation.
If you ignore context, history, culture, languages, etc. you can very easily miss the true meaning of Scriptures. You should be very concerned if your church leaders are telling you to ignore these things and only listen to them.
@@kevins4254 they aren’t telling us this. But what I find annoying is when these pastors pretend like they are the ones with the correct “context” and yet they all disagree on how a lot of these verses are interpreted.
@@Lola-sz8zu we do say Baptism is a saving ordinance. But what is disingenuous is that pastor Jeff understands what we mean by “being saved” and yet pretends as if we are saying those who do not get baptised will not attain their version of heaven. Remember to them God the Father is invisible, unseeable, everywhere and nowhere. They are expecting what we would consider terrestrial glory. They don’t believe in the degrees of glory but whenever I speak with them it always makes me laugh because we aren’t even talking about the same thing when addressing what it means to be “saved” . Saved from what? Saved from hell? Congrats you will indeed need faith to be saved from “hell”.
When you put a single nail in a board you can spin it in any direction you want. When you place a second or additional nails in the board fixes the direction and keeps it from spinning. The doctrines of baptism is simply being spun in any direction you want in evangelical Christianity. This shows the need for latter day scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and Latter Day prophets and apostles.
The Bible could say, “you have to be baptized to be saved” but you could still somehow spin it to mean the opposite This just makes me believe Joseph Smith even more. He said, “The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others. In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?” I love Nephi’s explanation of why we need to be baptized in 2 Nephi 32. Thanks for your super respectful thoughts and opinions
Faith. If my Savior asks me and shows me what to do, I will do my best to do as best I can. Getting baptized it's one of the easiest thing I can do to show that I want to be like Him. Tithing. Sure, I can use that extra cash in my pocket but OUR SAVIOR commands us to give 10 percent of what we earn, and that's another easy thing I CAN DO to SHOW I BELIEVE IN THE SAVIOR of the WORLD. Repentance. Repentance has been hard because of how stubborn I can be and the hardened of my heart but MY SAVIOR teaches over and over, that I need to REPENT so that my heart can change, with HIS HELP, and HIS GRACE can save me. These are one of the things OUR SAVIOR HAS TAUGHT. DO NOT GET FOOLED by wolf's in sheep clothing and let them astray you with their words because they "interpret" it wrong. GOD is not a GOD of confusion, and HIS WORDS are very clear. ASK HIM!
Why didn’t Paul condemn the practice of baptism for the dead, then? He certainly wasn’t shy about setting the Corinthians straight when they were wrong. It seems like a missed opportunity for clarity that he certainly would have taken, if baptism for the dead were indeed “pagan” as you put it.
Completely agree, if the practice of baptisms for the dead was a “pagan” practice carried over by the people of Corinth, 1) why wouldn’t Paul condemn the practice? 2) why would he reference it to teach about the actuality of Christs resurrection if it was a false practice?
Perhaps it just wasn't what Paul was most concerned about at the time. He writes, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" The context is people in Corinth who were denying the resurrection of the dead; a belief that renders the Gospel impotent; the most serious of false beliefs. He is using their baptism for the dead to point out an inconsistency in thier belief. Baptism for the dead makes no sense if the dead are not raised. The practice is in no way commended, merely mentioned to make a point about thier more serious problem of denying resurrection. Also, the group doing the baptizing for the dead isn't Paul or the Corinthians he is addressing. He didn't say "we" or even "you" (plural) in addressing those who baptize for the dead. He said "they." The only other thing we know about this other group in Corinth is that they denied the resurrection. Given this, it seems like caution in adopting their other practice (mentioned only here and not shared by Paul or the other Corinthians) is warranted.
If we don’t take this (Jesus’ commandment to be baptized) seriously, why should we take anything He commanded seriously besides believing in Him? All the beatitudes were just pretty words? Not necessary to follow him, just believe in him?
Jeff you mentioned that baptism is a commandment Jesus Christ said if ye love me ( meaning Jesus) keep my commandments not some commandment all commandments. Is not about balanceing is about obeying
This form of argument I find very unreasoned. WE don't save ourselves by baptism... we get baptized as a modality of Christ's saving power. ITs not OUR work, its God's work. If you're standing at the Pearly Gates, and God says come walk inside to heaven, will you say "no thanks, that includes me walking and I am saved regardless." This zero effort doctrine is so beyond what Paul intended. We CANNOT save ourselves by any personal action per se, but faith is effort. This idea of thinking yourself into heaven could have been summed up in a page in the Bible... and yet, we have more than 1 page. "“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." "DO" is a big word, which requires more than one page.
John the Baptist came before Jesus to prepare the wayfor Jesus. He specifically brought to people the doctrine of baptism. He testified of Christ all along the way. Why introduce the doctrine of baptism and Jesus together if they were not essentially tied to one another.
You work really hard to dance around a commandment that is very clear. Christ was an example in the river Jordan. This is called an Ordinance of salvation.
In the end. Faith without work is dead. If a man cannot follow a simple ordinance / action then how can you follow or do all the teachings of Jesus Christ?
Jeff, the scripture the asker was thinking about comes from the Book of Mormon. 3 Nephi 11 38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a littlechild, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
Interesting. The part I alam stuck on is that if "nothing we do" saves us....then we would all be saved automatically. By saying one must accept Christ.....that's us doing something. We don't think dunking in water saves, we think that it is how God has asked us to witness our acceptance of Christ. Can you really be accepting Christ if you don't do as we believe God commanded? I'd say no. Also, Paul isn't shy about condemning, why would he not condemn baptism for the dead? And instead use it as proof for the ressurection? That would make no sense.
I hear what you’re saying. I think the illustration I would use regarding your statement about faith /works would be somebody who is drowning in the ocean. When the Coast Guard helicopter shows up and drops a raft, the person who is drowning must grab onto it. It would be crazy for that person to return home and say that he saved himself by grabbing onto the raft. The Coast Guard saved them. This is how we view faith: it’s us receiving the rescue from sin Jesus provides; it is not our work that saves us but his. Baptism is a proclamation to everyone around us that we have taken him up on his offer of salvation.
I get you but I, and I think most ordinance heavy Christian denominations, would say that the fact remains that he still had to grab on. We just see the grabbing as something different.
Baptism is not just for the cleansing, Jesus Christ was baptized. It is to make the flesh born unto God, the father. This part about being born unto God is done in the waters of baptism like coming out of the womb of mother Earth. Once we become, a son or daughter of god then we are then cleansed by the atonement because we are one with Christ and with our father
One thing that has been taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints through revelation is that Adam was baptized by water and he received baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost and passed it down to his decendents. So they practiced the making of covenants through baptism until they went astray.
It seems like an ancient prophet would literally have to write: "baptism is essential to be saved" for evangelicals to believe. But even then, it would be explained away in its "context". BTW latter saints do not believe that baptism saves us, of course, only Jesus and his atoning sacrifice saves us. We just believe God has asked us to do certain things and if we do not, we are choosing not to be saved (in the celestial kingdom at least).
Pastor Jeff definately says thing that draw close to me with his lips but i feel he denies the power there of. Baptism by water and the holy ghost is the gate in wich we enter. Something i think is missing is the priesthood. The priesthood is the power and authority to act for god. We also believe baptism is a saving ordinances. All must be baptised by the right authority.
@@beavispdx For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. “And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate.
@@beavispdx 41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
Together with @DavidMonk8, I am grateful for prophets and apostles who are available to clarify passages of scripture and divine expectations. Pastor Jeff acknowledges that some of these points are matters of great debate within mainstream Christianity. Joseph Smith realized early that an appeal to the Bible alone would not be sufficient to resolve our understanding. The LDS Church doesn't have ALL the answers yet, either. But, thankfully, there are many important points of doctrine that have been explained and solidified in terms even children can understand. They are sometimes referred to as "plain and precious" truths. I am grateful for the understanding that God loves and cares for ALL his children. And I love what Elder Holland said (paraphrased), "The Lord has only ever had imperfect people to work with, but He deals with it. Maybe we should, too."
Baptism was a very well known idea in the time of Jesus as even he had recently been baptized. Nicodemus Asked Jesus for clarification. Had Jesus meant baptism he would have said so.
With Nicodemus, Jesus used descriptive words "being born of water" to signify the act of baptism. That, coupled with being born of the Spirit, is needed to ENTER the kingdom of God. Being born of the Spirit permits you to see the kingdom. You understand it whereas those who are not born of the Spirit don't "get it". But to actually enter the kingdom, baptism is essential. That is what Jesus taught here. Elsewhere Jesus is very specific. HE said to the eleven to "Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (If you don't believe you aren't likely to be baptized anyway, and if you get baptized without belief... you are just getting wet since belief [being born of the Spirit] is necessary as well. Both are needed, according to Jesus, to be saved. No wresting of the scriptures needed here. No "balance" necessary with other scriptures. Jesus said it. Jesus was baptised to show us the way. His way. I believe Jesus. He is the way. He showed us the way. It is a simple way. HE is the ultimate authority on what is necessary. If Jesus said it, then that is the way.
@@HelloSaints Why am I the only one to agree with you, or at least to thumbs up? Obviously, mostly LDS members are the commenters. I am a born again Christian and just to make it short and sweet ; I'm watching your teachings and seeing the LDS dispute issues. Bottom line: as written in The Bible in Revelations, we are taught not to take away from or add to The Bible. I could never deviate from that and join a cult that believes in a "prophet" who fills in for what the Bible teaches. As you know, I'm referring to ANY religion that does that,not just LDS. In conclusion, just wanted to say hello and let you know that there's at least one Christian out here, watching and listening to what You are teaching, trying so hard to overlook what I consider to be a fictional gospel. I have had several LDS and SDA friends who have struggled so much and have been so disillusioned while trying to escape to a life of Christianity. It's difficult enough to rightly divide and seek our own salvation with just one book, The Bible
I really love your videos and I appreciate that you create this safe enviroment while you make them. Though as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints I would just like to say that we believe in the balance of be and do. I actually found this being explained by Elder Lynn G. Robbins in this months Liahona magazine. He explains, "Be without do is faith without works or charity without ministering-- "is dead, being alone" (James 2:17)" He also says how do without be is as the Savior says hipocrisy. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that by being baptized we are covenanting with our Father in Heaven and showing that because we have faith in him we will do the works that he asks us to do. And so from our point of view it is in a way to show our faith. Not beacause it will save us. But because we would want to show that we have faith in him. And the baptisims for the dead are so that we can give the chance to those who had died if they would accept faith in Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Heavenly Father knows our intentions. He will know if we simply did the act or if we truly genuinely had faith in Him. But by doing the baptism we have shown him that we are not all talk. That we will also do what he asks of us. And the things we do because of our faith starts from the baptism. That our works help us grow our faith. I really hope that helped. And I would just really like to show my appreciation about how you do not criticize and is civilly trying to do this. thank you!
We Must Be Baptized for the Remission of Our Sins (Acts 2:38) (Acts 22:16). We Must Be Baptized to Show Obedience (Matthew 3:15). I am glad the Book of Mormon witnesses the truth of Bible passages. (2 Nephi 31:4-13).
One small critique of your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 1. Nowhere in the passage you read is Paul saying they are overemphasizing the ordinance of baptism. He is critiquing that they are dividing Christ's Church by aligning themselves to who baptized them rather than to Christ. But overall good work as always explaining how we differ in interpretation of these passages!
...I think the fact that baptism is what was separating these groups is clear. So, it does seem like there is a strong emphasis on baptism by the Corinthians. Just because the word "overemphasized" is not used doesn't mean that's not what is being done. In other words, you wouldn't say the plan of salvation is not Biblical because the exact words "plan of salvation" aren't found in the Bible. Just my opinion only.
@@BGCflyer Even if they were over emphasizing baptism, that's not the point that Paul was talking about. He was chastening them for bickering and dividing the church up over WHO was doing the baptism, and about how that division among them separating them from Christ, not that baptism wasn't necessary. Christ is the messenger of the covenant and the establisher of the ordinance; Paul was not discouraging or in discourse against baptism. Paul is getting really specific with the early saints in Corinth about dividing themselves. Baptism is as necessary as Christ instructed it to be for us. It is essential and is the gateway He established in love for us to follow Him. Much love. 💕
Right, and it even aligns with the fact that in our church the Prophet isn't the one who is responsible to baptize everyone, not even the Bishops. They can, but their primary role is to preach the gospel, delegate responsibilities, and oversee the church or ward. The authority to baptize is delegated down. Even 16 year old Priests in our church has the authority to baptize. So exactly, Paul was teaching them that they all belong to the same church which is Christ's because they were all baptized by persons who were given the same authority to baptize in Christ's name to become part of Christ's church.
@@BGCflyer I'm not understanding the relationship between your plan of salvation example and what I was pointing out. I was just noting that the interpretation Jeff gave is reading more into the passage than what is actually in the text. In other words, it's not rigorous exegesis. It's not necessarily a completely wrong interpretation, but it goes beyond what the text itself says in my opinion.
@@xrpreacher6000 ...maybe we are talking past each other here? I agree with your understanding of the early church fussing over WHO was doing the baptism. Just a side note here. Any thoughts on why Jesus didn't ever baptize anyone himself? I'm not implying it wasn't important.
Christ, the only perfect being, and the perfect example, was baptized. That, and all the scripture that supports the subject is enough for me, and should be enough for every believer. I don't think most believers feels the act of baptism saves, just like no believer should feel like a one-time act of being "born again" or "saved" is the only thing that qualifies saving. Christ is the Savior, and what our response is after being "saved" or baptized is as important. We must align our will, our life to His will over time, overcoming the personal obstacles that alienate us from Him. So yes we can be baptized, we can become saved, but the process of becoming continues.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for all your videos. I am Latter-Day Saint and I enjoy watching them, learning more about your beliefs, and I appreciate how you try to understand my faith and beliefs. I hope you have a wonderful day.
I know baptism is a complex topic. What can we learn from one another on this subject?
Oh my goodness, I love this question so much! What would the world be like if we all asked this question when faced with an opposing view?
I believe that each one of us believes that baptism is important in regards to accepting our faith in Christ. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do believe that the correct authority is extremely important, but they also believe in baptism for the dead which ultimately gives every accountable person that ever lived an opportunity to accept the gift of baptism. With that thought, even those that did not accept Christ or even have a chance to hear about him while living, have that chance to accept him. It is a daunting work, but if your belief is that if you are not baptized, you are doomed in the afterlife, that is no longer a fear. God has a plan to care for each of his children, knowing that each is redeemable, even in our imperfect nature, according to both of the laws of Justice and Mercy. Through Jesus Christ, we have been given the best possible opportunity to return to God.
Hey Jeff! Baptism doesn't save us. Our faith in Jesus Christ and his love for us leads us to respond with doing the "will of the Father" which includes being baptized. In Acts 2:38, the apostle Peter said “Repent and be baptized, EVERY ONE of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Peter makes it clear that is what we should do and WHY, and then God blesses us with his Spirit in response to our decision.
Baptism isn't a complex topic Jeff, it's people's interpretations of it that has made the topic complex.
Which is why we need a Magisterium for these kinds of quesion,
Proud to be a Catholic!
Glory be to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️♥️
@Compulsive-Elk7103 We need the testimonies of the apostles and prophets, the foundation, which Paul spoke, of the Kingdom and church whose maker and builder is God. No Magisterium needed.
Pastor Jeff, everything that you are describing with respect to the necessity of baptism, is essentially a latter-day saint doctrine. In my estimation. You are 100% correct. Baptism does not save in of itself. Baptism is a representation of our belief, and our willingness to follow Jesus Christ. So when you say, it is not baptism that saves, technically, that is true, but it is a contradiction in terms for someone to say they wholeheartedly believe in Jesus Christ, but on some level are refusing to follow him into the waters of baptism. You cannot have one without the other. if someone profess to believe in Jesus Christ, and then proceeds to refuse to be baptized as a symbol of that belief, then what does that say about that person‘s belief?
As you know, from your many conversations with latter-day Saints, our belief in the ordinances as the power of godliness manifested amongst God‘s children is a core doctrine. We do not believe that the water itself purifies us, we do not believe that the bread and water of the sacrament itself purifies us , it is not the physical properties of these items that purifies us, it is the submission, willingness, faith, adherence to the laws of the gospel, that all represent to one degree or another, our willingness to follow Christ. In the end, the only thing we have to offer is our willingness to follow him. Therefore, the Apex of belief, is the willingness to do all things he command us to do. This is what binds together faith, and works, as taught by James. The works do not save, they manifest our belief in the one who is doing the commanding.
Only God truly knows our hearts. It is not for me or for you, or for anyone to measure our degree of conversion or belief in Christ. Many of us can be bogged down in faithless works. And many others can be bogged down in professions of faith, while sitting on their couch.
So many of these conversations, illustrate to me how close we are in so many ways to each other. In fact, much closer than I would have ever imagined, even though we use different language.
In the end, who will be saved? Any that want to be. How do we show that we want to be? By striving to live the life that Christ lived. By following his example. By remembering him in all that we do. By exercising faith in him unto repentance, which, for me, is essentially Heavenly Father providing us a way, through Christ, to get back up when we stumble.
You’re a good egg Pastor Jeff.
Wow, well said!
Thanks for taking the time to make an explanation I would have liked to have made.
However you are being a little teddy bearish in the end.
Faithless ordinances don't save (in fact they tend towards the opposite) but apparently baptism is pretty darn important! We might even concluded essential.
I know a person who is elderly and has some physical limitations that would make it very difficult to be baptized in a baptismal font or pool. This person is bathed by hand and can't be baptized in the way the lds church requires. What would you say to this person who has put her faith and trust in Jesus Christ? Is baptism still required for people with certain physical limitations?
Correct. Evangelicals often confuse our ordinances with "works".
1) Does baptism save? No, it is just water and getting dunked.
2) Why is it done? All ordinances are an outward expression of entering into a covenant (stronger than us making a pledge because God also pledges to us). It is the authorized way to enter into a covenant with Jesus Christ for those who choose to do so. Getting baptised without the covenant is meaningless and therefor cannot save.
3) Is baptism a commandment? Absolutely as is evidenced by multiple scriptures in the New Testament.
While I agree that the New Testament can reasonably be interpreted in many ways (another good reason God instituted prophets), the parts about baptism seems very much in harmony with LDS doctrine as I read it which is what initially got me interested before joining.
@@dreamfire5210 can someone answer my question from above please?
It seems clear to me that the one person who didn’t need baptism but chose to set the example to be baptized was Christ showing us how much we should be baptized to show our commitment to him and desire to align ourselves with Him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
So, why didn’t Jesus baptize anyone? Was his concern about additional ordinances? Or about a changed and repentant heart?
@@BGCflyer John 3:22 and John 4:2 will answer your question
@@TheOne610 ...John 4:2 "...although in fact it was NOT Jesus who baptized, but his disciples."
Thanks for the Bible verses. Jesus didn't baptize.
...baptism isn't done because Jesus was baptized. Baptisms should be done because you have repented of your sins and have a changed heart. Your baptism should be the natural response when God has renewed your heart...a person who has truly been born again.
What this emphasizes to me is the need for a true prophet with keys and authority of the priesthood.
Thank you! That is why priesthood is important for these sacred ordinances or it’s all just taking a dip in a pool. No authority or confirmation of Holy Ghost.
Amen brother
@@Lola-sz8zuChristians still recognize the need for authority and the Holy Ghost.
Just make sure to pay to play or else
My feelings exactly.
Acts 2:38-41
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Evangelicals are good at using scriptures to balance out things, which means they can take one scripture as an excuse to ignore the other, which really isn't how scripture should be used.. In these conversations, Mark 16:16 is always ignored as is 1 Peter 3:21
" The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"
Or, in the case of this video, an interpretation is placed on the verse to take away what it actually is saying
Thank you!! Love this scripture!
@@BrianTerrill But Luke 23:43 clearly indicates that one can be saved without being baptized. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity, and Jesus still said he would be in paradise.
@johnwilson8482 The thief believed and was most likely a disciple before the cross, John baptized many, perhaps this man was among them. Under Roman law there was no statute of limitations, nor did they recognize Baptism as absolvement of what they saw as a crime, so even if he had been baptized, he still had to pay in the eyes of ruthless civil authority.
@@johnwilson8482 After his death. Christ went immediately to those who were not baptized to preach His gospel to them. Joseph Smith explained that this reference to paradise was a mistranslation of His meaning. According to the prophet, the Lord actually said that the thief would be with Him in the world of spirits. Paradise is a realm for righteous spirits where they await the resurrection. The realm Christ went to is called Spirit Prison, where those who never learned of him or who were less valiant in their lifetimes go before the resurrection. I love that the Savior reaches out to those who didn’t have the chance to hear the gospel or learn of him during their lifetimes, and that they still have the opportunity to repent and change, and accept Him as their savior.
“The teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.” -Joseph Smith History
Amen.
Amen again! 😊
Biblical Christians all agree on the core fundamentals of Christianity, however. They all agree on who Jesus is and what the gospel/”good news” is, as the Bible is very clear on these matters when read in context. Where we disagree is on topics that are referred to in Christian philosophy as “adiaphora,” or that which has no moral or salvific merit nor demerit. These topics include things like mode of baptism, or predestination vs. free will, or on the more extreme end of the spectrum, how the Amish and Mennonites choose to generally live their lives.
We can disagree on these topics because God’s Word neither condones nor condemns these decisions, but if one strays from the core teachings that God has laid out for us, it can become difficult to consider them a brother or sister in Christ.
The mic was dropped on this topic in 1830
D&C Section 22
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Manchester, New York, April 16, 1830. This revelation was given to the Church in consequence of some who had previously been baptized desiring to unite with the Church without rebaptism.
1, Baptism is a new and everlasting covenant; 2-4, Authoritative baptism is required.
1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning.
2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.
3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old.
4 Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.
Somehow I am waiting for someone to argue with this. (Tapping my toe on the floor.)
This is correct.
Anyone who would argue this would argue first that Joseph wasn’t a prophet. As a current member of the LDS church I’m actually really struggling with Joseph because of things like the Kinderhook plates, Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon anachronisms, multiple first visions, etc…
It makes it really hard to believe anything that subsequently followed, such as revelations in D&C, if those fundamentals aren’t resolved.
@@talibytes Yes, this is where you have to gain testimony of the purity of Christ first and foremost, and then the purity of his servants such as Joseph Smith. To understand that God is in charge. His covenants are real and beneficial to us as his children. Then with that faith and testimony your eyes will open again to see it is all real. It is the only way. Joseph was pure and all the darkness the world spits at him with their perspectives and false narratives are just that, terribly false. This is what happens to the best people. The Devil is raging and is happy to twist and darken the perspective of those who lead or have lead us. I have been through this too and am coming out on the other side fully aware and committed to God our Father and his light of truth and purity.
@@millenialhymns I do have a testimony of Jesus and His gospel. It seems to me, after months of research (mainly using primary sources) that Joseph wasn’t all he said he was. I think he was likely not a prophet but was simply sharing the things he believed in. He also did many bad things in his life but to a certain extent those things can be ignored due to him being human like the rest of us.
Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust-from prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who “will show unto you all things what ye should do.” Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal Revelation. - Russell M. Nelson
Pastor Jeff is a believer in Christ.
Maybe some day Jeff can explain to us why Jesus thought it very important for Him to be baptized by full immersion by one qualified to do so and who He was baptized for??
I always thought that He got baptized to set an example for us; to show us that we needed to be baptized.
@@Joshua21136 ... That too. How about the first proxy baptism for all those of Old Testament times and those never given the opportunity?? :>)
@@godsoffspring4195When you worship an exalted man from another planet, any baptism is pointless.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do .... You may be right, Lizzy. Good thing I don't worship anyone from another planet. Sheesh!! :>)
@@godsoffspring4195 We believe everyone will be given an opportunity. Because God is fair and loves all of his children. So why do some receive the opportunity in this life when some don't? That goes back to the parable of the laborer. Matthew 10: 1-16. Basically everyone has a different path. The Lord knows what we need. Life is a test. I try not to worry about the mysteries. But I believe God loves all of his people.
We follow Jesus Christ, who was baptized. Even though He was perfect, He set the pattern for us to follow.
2 Nephi 31
“5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!”
@@joselito811Yes, and not only that, the scriptures say that He and His apostles baptized His followers.
Again, with respect I think that this is a pointless dialogue. What I mean is that you can’t force Latter Day Saints to explain our doctrine from the Bible alone. We will use many scriptures from the Old and New Testament to support and give evidence to LDS doctrine, but to rely on the Bible alone just brings us down to the world of Protestant Christianity where there will be a myriad of interpretations of the same scripture.
For instance read Doctrine and Covenants 18:41-42. “And you must preach unto the world, saying: You must repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ. For all men must repent and be baptized, and not only men, but women and children who have arrived at the years of accountability. And now, after that you have received this, you must keep my commandments in all things.”
Read 3 Nephi, and Jesus clearly commands us to be baptized in his name 3 Nephi 27:20 “Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost”. 3 Nephi 11:33 “And whoso believe that in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. And whoso believe that not in me and is not baptized, shall be damned.”
The point is - when we limit ourselves to the Bible there is debate. When we look to the revelations of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, there is no debate. Also LDS did not get our doctrine of baptism for the dead from 1 Corr 15. Joseph Smith received it from God as revelation. 1 Corinthians 15 supports that revelation by mentioning that they were being baptized for the dead, but the doctrine is in the Doctrine and Covenants. My point is that these discussions always lead to the same place: was Joseph Smith a prophet of God and is the Book of Mormon the word of God? That is the big question. Because if those questions are answered in the affirmative, then they inform our understanding of the Bible. Just like the revelation of Jesus Christ informed Paul’s understanding of Torah. Once he accepted Jesus Christ he went back to read the Torah and discovered that the entire law pointed to Christ.
This is why we invite everyone to read the Book of Mormon, and with a sincere humble heart ask God if it is true and if Joseph Smith was a prophet. There is no need to limit ourselves to a debate about how this and that passage from the New Testament is to be interpreted.
Also gives credence to the need for a prophet and an additional witness of scripture.
Great explanation!
Mic drop.
Yes!!! My thoughts exactly!! I’m so grateful that the LDS missionaries came to our islands in 1920’s and preached the gospel and taught about the plan of salvation so that we can have an opportunity to repent be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Ghost by conformation by the priesthood authority. I can’t imagine having half the gospel of Jesus Christ. I would be lost forever.
I read the book of Mormon truly with a sincere and humble heart and I asked God if the book of Mormon was true and if Joseph Smith was a real prophet and they holy Spirit told me NO.
What now?!
This conversation helps me to know how vital the Book of Mormon is to our belief and understanding about baptism.
This is a quote from one if our general authorities, Tad callister, in the October 2011 General Conference.
"The Bible is one witness of Jesus Christ; the Book of Mormon is another. Why is this second witness so crucial? The following illustration may help: How many straight lines can you draw through a single point on a piece of paper? The answer is infinite. For a moment, suppose that single point represents the Bible and that hundreds of those straight lines drawn through that point represent different interpretations of the Bible and that each of those interpretations represents a different church.
What happens, however, if on that piece of paper there is a second point representing the Book of Mormon? How many straight lines could you draw between these two reference points: the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Only one. Only one interpretation of Christ’s doctrines survives the testimony of these two witnesses."
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we come to this topic from the standpoint of two witnesses.
Exactly!
Truth!
It seems to me the Bible is more than one witness of Jesus Christ. It contains 66 books written by about 40 authors over a couple thousand years. The narrative story of Jesus's life is told four times over. In this way we have multiple witnesses, perspectives, and emphases.
Where can we read about early church members performing baptisms for the dead in the Book of Mormon?
Do you accept the 7 Deuterocanonical books as scripture as well? They were part of the original Bible in the 4th century but were subsequently taken out around the reformation time.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints operates with volunteers. People who dedicate their time, talents, finances, even for some their very lives to never ending service and spiritual support of both members and non-members. I served a two year mission with no pay. I now serve in our Bishopric, we spend literally thousands of hours each year blessing, serving, pondering, and praying on how we can help others in their lives. No monetary gain, no limelight.
It’s commitment. It’s a covenant.
Where there is no covenant of sacrifice, there is no power.
Baptism represents commitment. It represents a covenant. When you make that covenant and keep it, you gain capacity, wisdom, inspiration and the ability to organize, lift, inspire and grow.
Who goes to Heaven? That’s for Him to judge.
Making and keeping commitments in all aspects of life….that’s Heaven for me because I feel the joy of Christlike service.
Jesus Christ was committed, not just to curiosity…..but to humility.
That’s the path less traveled.
All are welcome to enter ant the way…. Including you Jeff!
Thanks for being a kind Protestant Pastor!
@GStar-qd5oi No questioning of commitment when it comes to my LDS friends!
@@HelloSaints Jeff - Maybe think about it this way. If baptism is required as Jesus Christ said himself, think how merciful The Savior is in having Temples on earth for baptisms to be performed for all those who did not have an opportunity to hear the gospel. Think how merciful The Savior is to those who died with no knowledge, no opportunity. Also, think of the amazing work that is happening all over the world as temples are built and Latter-Day Saints enter those temples to help others. Instead of focusing on being a Protestant all the time, just think how much more merciful A Savior is that extends mercy to all that have ever lived, a Heavenly Father that has prepared "many mansions." A gospel that does not punish so many and reward so few, a Church that is completely committed to missionary work to spread that gospel. Jesus Christ suffered to extend Mercy. All who wish to receive that invitation, to enter the waters of baptism and covenant with Him and our Heavenly Father will have that opportunity, including you Jeff. It's an invitation, none are excluded, but also none are forced. You have great potential, but it will require you thinking of things different than what you were taught at times as a young person. The crazy thing is that need for being willing to learn continues on after baptism, it's a lifelong pursuit of further light and knowledge. We can all clearly see your passion for scripture and doctrine, I just invite you to pause and think...which Jesus Christ is more merciful? The real Jesus Christ is so merciful that Our Father in Heaven had a plan to help all receive the blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ. They love us.
I like the idea of baptism as a “pledge.” I’m grateful for my own baptism and the covenants I made. My covenants provide me with rest and comfort, and also motivate me to choose to follow Christ in my everyday thoughts and actions.
Then why was Jesus baptised?
John told Jesus he needed to be baptised by Jesus. Jesus then said suffered it to be so.
Jesus said, if you love me Do even as I have done.
Therefore baptism is to follow Jesus example.
By being baptised, we take upon us the Name of our Saviour, and always remember him, that we strive to keep his commandments, that we may always have his Spirit to be with us, Amen
God is the bank. Christ is the key. Baptism is the paperwork...
Clearly only Christ can save us. But clearly he also has placed requirements on his followers. He requires faith. He requires obedience. He requires repentance. He requires baptism.
I find that protestants have a hard time reconciling that in their minds as is evident here. They start to think that if a thing is required, then there must be some saving power in it, and since only Jesus can save they shy away from that thing or rationalize on the basis of "context".
It is very important to differentiate between the power and the conditions. Only Christ has the power to save, but he only saves those who meet his conditions.
Think of it this way. A mortgage doesnt get you into a house. Keys get you into the house. But the bank doesnt give you the keys until the paperwork is signed. God is the bank. Christ is the key. Baptism is the paperwork.
As a protestant, this is the way I have understood it my entire life.
@@UTBanjo Yes! That's how the bible explains it. Unfortunately a lot of people have different ideas, viewing things from their own lens. With the doctrine of baptism there seems to be particular difficulty out in the Christian world.
@@travisackermann7686 Don't even get most of them started on sprinkling vs dunking.
@@UTBanjo 😂for sure! And it really shouldn't be that hard. "baptism" comes from the greek word meaning "imerse". Could they have given a better clue?
There are no excuses, Pastor. Mathew 3: 14 - 16. If we are true followers of Jesus Christ then we will do what He did.
What about the thief on the cross?
@@MollyF86latter day Saint doctrine solves this through proxy baptism
@MollyF86 the thief was baptized already, all the Jews were by thar time except the Jewish leaders, Jesus rebukes the leaders this way:
"29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30)
@@DallinBunnell no, baptism of the dead by proxy doesn't solve the thief on the crosses life.
Christ promised him that he would be in heaven with him, not that some 1800 years later , a person stands in as proxy for him.
Baptism of the dead is false.
Glory be to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️♥️
This 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
The Church I was in as a kid I was taught without Baptism I go to Hell, suffice to say I never got Baptized, and then my wife screamed at me years later that I needed Baptism...eventually got baptized by my Cousin who told me it wasnt necessary, but I got baptized. Then I got a sense right before learning about the Restored Gospel that Life as I knew it was about to change. It did.
Love it!
Protestant Christinity has evolved in the last 40 years, that's for sure. My grandma always lectured us on the do's and don'ts of getting to heaven and not going to hell. That church has since changed and did a 180 to the point now they teach their youth they can have sex without getting married and they'd still go to heaven. (And baptism has become optional, too)
Pretty much sticking their finger in the wind and seeing what preaching will bring in the biggest paychecks is what they are doing.
@@BrianTerrill I've found the number one observation as a Latterday Saint these past few years has been a Clearly defined set of Eternal Principals. Namely two being that Gender is Eternal and Unchangeable, and that Marriage is between a Man, and a Woman according to God's Law.
A sense? A feeling? Was it salvation?
@@Mormonsharing Salvation was never a question, but yes I did have several different kinds of promptings. Some were words, others were impressions to take immediate action. Followed by what would come next. But Yes I did experience a Power unlike anything I'd ever felt before that I would call The Holy Ghost.
With every statement, you're showing how desperately we need another testament of Jesus Christ, a living prophet, and a restored church.
No
That is right! That is why there are thousands of churches preaching different things from the same verses.
well why then are there so many mormon denominations then? FLDS, Community of Christ, Rigdonites, etc. They all believe in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
Why are there division in YOUR church? Do you use wine for sacrament? it's in the Book of Mormon?
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 so your saying since ancient times we have not received any revelation? Do you really think a loving merciful God and his son Jesus Christ will leave out this dispensation without any instructions or explanation or revelation nor do we need any help from our Father in Heaven to navigate these difficult times. I find that completely ridiculous!
@@Lola-sz8zu Christ gave us all we need, for he is the prophecy fulfilled. Follow, believe and trust in Him. Love others. Worship the father. Nobody says there would be no further revelation. However, there is a scriptural litmus test of a prophet. If any of their prophecies are untrue then they are no prophet.
One thing you should consider. Our definition of saved isn't parallel. Exaltation is different. My understanding of the mainstream view of heaven would not require baptism. From a latter-day Saint. That would be conforming to terrestrial law. Celestial law requires covenant keeping
Well honestly............................Evangelical Christianity is very confusing. I didn't understand your explanation. It seems to contradict itself. I am no more clearer in your views than I was before. I can see why Joseph Smith was confused between all the religions and was seeking an answer from Heavenly Father.
The key word in Mark 16:16 is AND. It does not say you can either believe or be baptized, it says AND. It must be both. There are so many scriptures in the Bible that either directly point to baptism as a saving ordinance or imply that it is necessary for salvation. The Book of Mormon contains many scriptures that clear up any confusion on the matter.
The best reading is that true belief includes baptism. So anyone who refuses baptism by definition DOESN'T BELIEVE.
As always, I appreciate your sincerity in attempting to clarify a point of disagreement between traditional and restored Christianity. However, I find your reasoning from the scriptures very unpersuasive. You're right that the act of being baptized doesn't physically cleanse us, and you're right that the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is what saves us, and not our own works. But it doesn't follow from those premises that baptism is not necessary. I see no justification in the scriptures for your treating baptism as a human work, rather than (as the scriptures clearly teach) an expression of faith in and obedience to Christ. You keep saying that all we have to do is accept what Christ has done--but Christ has told us that *Baptism* is HOW we accept his atonement and enter into that covenant relationship.
What's more, this video makes abundantly clear that the protestant reliance on "sola scriptura" is an inadequate approach to gospel knowledge. Meaning no personal criticism, if you can interpret the scriptures you just covered to mean that baptism is *not* necessary, clearly you can make the scriptures mean whatever you want them to mean. This is why reliance on the Bible alone inevitably results in a fractured and divided Christianity. The bible alone is clearly not sufficient to resolve even such a fundamental question as whether baptism is required for salvation. Yet if Paul or Peter was on the earth today, they could answer that question clearly. Hence the need for *living* prophets and *continuing* revelation. I'm grateful for your willingness to engage in honest cross-faith conversation. But I'm infinitely more grateful that Jesus Christ has once again called prophets and apostles and revealed the truth of his gospel in clarity and simplicity--that through these prophets and apostles we can come to a unity of faith, and no more be children carried about with every wind of doctrine. (Eph. 4:11-14)
I think there’s a difference in what Lds and others believe about how to accept Jesus. I would say that the ordinances are the way an Lds person shows they accept Jesus and his sacrifice. But the ordinances don’t save us, only Jesus does. Even evangelicals seem to believe you have to accept Jesus in some way, which is a “work” in a way. The ordinances are equivalent to whatever action or choice an evangelical would say is required to accept Christ
“We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
A principle is a truth that guides us back to Heavenly Father. An ordinance is a sacred act that someone with the priesthood performs. These four principles and ordinances are the first we must live before we can grow in the gospel.
Principles and ordinances were established anciently by Jehovah, who, when He came to fulfill all righteousness, started His ministry by establishing baptism as the ordinance that opens the gate. We cannot separate God from his ordinances and expect to progress along the covenant pathway. We may have an understanding that Christ ultimately saves us, but we may not progress along His pathway until we accept the covenants and ordinances He has laid out.
I enjoy David A. Bednar who discoursed on this. "Sacred ordinances that are received worthily and remembered continually open the heavenly channels through which the power of godliness can flow into our lives. By receiving priesthood ordinances and making and keeping sacred covenants, we are yoked to and with the Savior (see Matthew 11:28-30) and can be blessed with strength beyond our own to overcome the temptations and challenges of mortality as we prepare to return to God’s presence."
@@xrpreacher6000There's no getting around this, covenants and ordinances are necessary.
I agree. Something has so be done in either religion.
Even the act of confessing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior is an action. You have to do something.
It has always surprised me why people battle between faith and works. Group A throws out 5 scriptures to defend the need for works, and Group B responds with their own 5 scriptures to show how it is the grace of Jesus saves us... But the fact that there are 2 points of view, with scriptures backing up both, just proves that we need both! It's not one or the other, true grace doesn't exist without obedience, and obedience is never sufficient, because we are imperfect.
We NEED Christ's grace to save us (so we truly can't boast) but it takes our agency to accept God's grace. The way we show our acceptance is through obedience. We need both. It's one thing.
Those are my thoughts. Thanks Pastor Jeff for sharing yours, I am enjoying this space to learn and ask questions!
Here is a true curiosity question for Pastor Jeff (or other Evangelicals) Isn't the evangelical concept of accepting Jesus and being born again technically an action? It requires agency. What makes that different from choosing to accept Jesus via baptism?
Obedience, commandments, and works don't save us. Without them though, there would be nothing through which we could exercise, increase, or show our faith. Works don't save us, but works develop faith. and its through faith in Christ that we receive his grace.
By characterizing the argument as faith vs works, it makes it sound like the works side doesn't believe in grace. That's absurd! The "works" argument is that there's a need for both as articulated in James. I've never met anyone who believes that works alone save someone.
I totally agree,@@FLanklinBadge. Works are how we exhibit and increase our faith. without works, there'd be no faith, and without faith, there'd be no grace.
Why the problem? Christ tells us what to do. It's free. We must do what he says so it will work. His grace is telling us what to do. Our "works" are simply doing what he tells us to do. If we do, we get the Father's promise.
Dead people cannot 'accept Jesus.' Ephesians 2 says that everyone is born dead in their sins, children of disobedience, children of wrath and without hope in the world.
It is God that awakens the dead and grants them the ability to repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8-9
It is the gift of God.
Not gonna lie, this video left me wanting. Seems more confusing. I’m grateful to have the simple and clear understanding that the restored gospel offers.
This makes me feel so sad because pastor Jeff still has not received the fullness of the gospel. I can’t imagine living a life with all the answers from our faith yet he provides the bare minimum.
Yeah it also make me more confuse and I tried my best to make sense of what pastor Jeff explaining. I'm also grateful to have the restored gospel it give me peace of mind.
There is no salvation in this video. No life. No hope. No Jesus Christ.
@@Lola-sz8zu The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile all mankind to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died and rose again. Christ said, "It is finished." The debt has been paid.
Christ requires perfection to get into heaven. You need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
The truth is that no matter what anyone does, they could never measure up to God's standard of perfection.
Christ never required anyone to believe the Book of Mormon is true, believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, join a church, go through a worthiness interview, confess sins to a bishop, earn forgiveness, get a temple recommend, go through a masonic Endowment Ceremony, put on Lucifer's power and priesthoods, learn secret grips, tokens, signs, handshakes, and passwords, get married, do temple work, wear temple garments, don't drink coffee or tea, etc..
Imagine Christ collecting 10% of people's income and checking for valid temple recommends at the temple doors?
Salvation is quite simple.
Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them.
I was born and raised LDS and I’m not sure why you guys are finding Pastor Jeff’s beliefs here to be “Christless” and “hopeless.” His beliefs point firmly to Jesus’ Atonement to save us all and that through that we have hope. Baptism is something we do to proclaim our beliefs, not to be converted or saved. It’s a representation that we are talking on ourselves His name. Where is the “Christlessness” and “hopelessness” in that?
I think there is a misunderstanding regarding the scripture you offered in Titus 3:5 wherein it is quoted as saying "he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." The washing of rebirth and renewal takes place through baptism and then partaking of the sacrament. The baptism of Jesus Christ was an example wherein Christ told us that he did "this to fulfill all righteousness." In other words, because baptism is a commandment, he set the example to keep all commandments of the Father.
@@The_Man_Chidi ... He sees them all. :>)
Mark 16:16 He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be damned.
I go over this scripture in this video. You should watch the whole video. :)
@@HelloSaintsin regards to this scripture (Mark 16:16), why would anyone be baptized if they didn’t believe? Doesn’t baptism naturally follow true belief (and is still required)? If you don’t believe, then you intuitively won’t be baptized.
Still, the second sentence does not negate the first. “He who believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” - this is pretty clear.
@@zefrauzo
The laws that were transgressed was the Law of God given through Moses. Changing the ordinances references to how the laws of the God of Israel were misappropriated - not baptism for the remission of sins which did not exist until John the Baptist.
@@chrishumphries7489 What about people who believe but do not have the opportunity to be baptized?? If someone accepts Christ and dies soon after, or is in a situation where they cannot be baptized (war), do you believe they won't go to heaven??
@kevins4254
This is exactly why we have baptisms for the dead.
Here is what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has to say about baptisms for the dead:
"Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf. Jesus Christ said, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). Even Jesus Christ Himself was baptized (see Matthew 3:13-17). Many people have lived on the earth who never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ and who were not baptized. Others lived without fully understanding the importance of the ordinance of baptism. Still others were baptized, but without proper authority. Because He is a loving God, the Lord does not damn those people who, through no fault of their own, never had the opportunity for baptism. He has therefore authorized baptisms to be performed by proxy for them. A living person, often a descendant who has become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is baptized in behalf of a deceased person. This work is done by Church members in temples throughout the world. Some people have misunderstood that when baptisms for the dead are performed, deceased persons are baptized into the Church against their will. This is not the case. Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church. The New Testament indicates that baptisms for the dead were done during the time of the Apostle Paul (see 1 Corinthians 15:29). This ordinance was restored with the establishment of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Baptisms for the Dead, Topics and Questions,).
Acts 2:38 The Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ ...
Talking about Corinthians and the letter to them. Paul is writing to those who are members of the church. Therefore, his language is going to be in that manner. So when he says that I did not come to baptize you, he is speaking about his role and their ongoing progression into the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Pastor Jeff as a Latter-day Saint I’m super grateful for you and your channel. I feel I have a better understanding of evangelical Protestant faith. Thank you. As for baptism, I agree that it is ultimately Christ that saves us. That is actually how I have always read “after all we can do, it is by grace we are saved”. It’s Christ who saves us, not our works. I do look at baptism and other covenants we make much like the Israelites who were commanded to look and live. It was important to look at the serpent to be saved, but it wasn’t the serpent that saved them, rather the faith in God and his commandment to be obedient to his command. This is why I think Sister Freeman’s talk, which you wonderfully reviewed, is important for today’s Latter-day Saints. We need to remember that it’s about Christ that we do these things and not just checking off boxes.
Thank you again.
... ordinances like baptism are still a part of Christ's beckoning of Him to "Come, follow me". Ultimately it's He who is mighty to save, and it is our choice to follow Him or not (that's OUR choice and work, not His). We are only yoked to Him or reconciled to God when we choose to follow Him. Following Him takes work! After all that work which we can do, it's still only He who has the keys to our salvation and He has declared the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, is through following Him into the waters of baptism. It's something He has done and is something we CAN do, too. Why would we NOT follow the Savior into the tokens of our covenants to yoke ourselves to Him on our way back to God?
Sorry Travis. You should read more about our gospel principles. You are sadly mistaken
It’s rather unfortunate that this is coming from other members of the church. I’m confident in my testimony of the restored church.
@@traviswaithmair4809 I don't think that what is being said is that he doesn't believe baptism is an essential ordinance. He's simply building a bridge with Pastor Jeff that shows we can agree that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Baptism is an essential ordinance along the covenant pathway, and we know that. It isn't essential to believe in Christ, but it is essential to yoke ourselves to Him. He established that, and nobody will take that away. I do believe this good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is building a bridge with the intent to help show the way, not tear down Christ's perfectly clear covenant pathway. Much love. 💕
Pastor Jeff is wonderful. The ideas he defends and explains in this video (1) are clearly false, and (2) show the importance of continuing revelation through living prophets rather than reliance on past scripture alone. Imagine someone in Moses' day saying "the brazen serpent is not what heals us from these snake bites--it is our faith! That's why we DON'T NEED TO BOTHER LOOKING AT BRAZEN SERPENT..."
The day I was baptized, I witness, that I was washed inwardly and outwardly. I actualy felt my filth qualified to be removed from me, being buried in the water, as I surfaced out of the water. There is a glow on the countenance of those who are baptized under the Authority of the Priesthood.
Many pentecostal converts have shared with me feeling the same experience I did. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I want to thank you for this journey. I am rather young, but have already have experienced persecution and hatred for my beliefs. Your respectful questions and civil manner of disagreement is wonderful and refreshing. Again, thank you so much.
These discussions are interesting, but will always lead back to the same place: without priesthood authority and continuing revelation man’s interpretation of scripture will always be varied and confusing. This is exactly why Joseph Smith went into the grove and saw what he saw and was told what he was told. All the pastors of his day had their own interpretation of the Bible and even a young uneducated farm boy could see that was a big problem.
Yes, I’m so grateful for the restored gospel, and for the questions the Prophet Joseph asked God!
Me too! ❤️
We have so many restores truths. This is why we needed the restoration
I don't think any Latter-day Saint believes that baptism saves us, but they do believe that choosing not to get baptised damns us, a choice that we'll all have to make at some point before our resurrection.
Let's remember that the word "damn" simply means "to stop". We are damned when our progression stops and it stops UNTIL we are baptized, back on the path, following the Savior's example. Why was Jesus baptized? -----certainly he did not NEED it..... he was setting an example of what and HOW this ordinance was to be performed.
Does it state in the Bible that anyone can baptize anyone and it doesn’t matter what Church / and no priesthood authority?
I think the guy who thought he was quoting (or paraphrasing) Mark was actually paraphrasing Christ in the Book of Mormon "Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day." (3 Nephi 27:20)
The doctrine that is taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't actually teach that baptism saves us because it is only in and through the blood of Christ and by His name that we are saved (Mosiah 3:16-18). It teaches that we must be baptized to be able to enter into The Father's presence. Baptism is the first fruits of repentance (Moroni 8:25) and is the first step the repentant will take to follow Christ (2 Nephi 31: 17-18) and, formally, take upon them His name (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 51)... so baptism doesn't save, it is a faith-filled repentant act that formally takes upon us His name and without it, we cannot become priests of the Most High (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 57) nor enter the Celestial Kingdom of God to dwell in the presence of God and His Christ (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 62). Without baptism, we will be saved. We will be among those who receive the presence of the Son, but not the fullness of the Father (Doctrine and Covenants 76:76-77). This goes back to our belief in those three kingdoms of glory that you have mentioned before. I would strongly recommend you read all of Doctrine and Covenants section 76 to get a full scope of the difference.
To put it simply, in order to be saved from sin, you must have Faith in Christ enough to believe that repentance has merit, those who repent earnestly will feel to sing the song of redeeming love and receive a remission of their sins because of the grace of Christ. By this grace, they are saved from sin, and by the merits of His resurrection, they will be saved from death. They will not feel the pains of Hell when looking forward to the resurrection and judgment because their guilt will be swept away by their faith in Christ and when they do come into His presence for the final judgment, they will be glad.
Those who feel this remission of sin will naturally want to dedicate their lives to following Him and to do that, they should be baptized to formally take upon them His name and receive the Gift of The Holy Ghost, thereby entering into a covenant with God and receiving more of His grace to enable to them do His works. Without that covenant relationship, they cannot become members of His church nor continue with God in His Father's house after the resurrection. Those who follow Christ in this way will be made "perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood." (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 69)
Because we view the goal of mortality to be not only saved from sin and death but exalted to become like God through His perfection, we view baptism as a requirement.
This makes sense about the misquoting. Thank you for clarifying!
Charis, the word usually used and interpreted as “grace,” actually means a 2-way obligatory promise, whereby one person freely gives something, and the other person, out of gratitude, responds to the giver in a dutiful way.
It is important that we not overthink the doctrine of baptism and not quibble about what we assume is the context of one scripture verses another. Jesus himself, despite being perfect, needed baptism to enter the Kingdom of God and was baptized by John the Baptist, as described in Matthew 3. End of discussion.
It is very simple. But trying to make it complicated
Here's the doctrine of Christ my friends:
□Faith in Jesus Christ
□Repentance
□Baptism
□Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost
□Enduring to the end
It seems to me if we were to use the same reasoning you do about baptism, we wouldn't need to follow any of the commandments. In the whole context of the Bible we are free from doing any of those things, just like we are free from being baptized, because Christ did it all for us through the Atonement and Resurrection. I agree that, after all we can do, we are saved only by the Atonement of Christ. We could be baptized and follow every commandment and still not be saved except and through the great Mercy of Christ's Atonement. The commandments to be baptized, to not kill, to not lust, love thy neighbor, etc., etc. are acts that prove our devotion to Christ. They also bring us closer to Him, to know His character, to grow in love and indebtedness to Him. Done in the right spirit they change us from the Natural Man to someone who will be able to abide Christ's presence. I have known from a young age that Christ's Atonement is the only thing that saves us but it was not until I tried to follow all his commandments, including baptism, that I increased my connection and love to Him. I have become a better person. I have shaken off some of the shackles of the natural man the process. I believe the commandments and many references to the need for baptism are for us to help us grow and change.
I think what we all talk over each other about on salvation and works is how we understand the three degrees of glory. You all believe in one heaven and one hell, whereas we believe in the three “levels” of Heaven. We are all saved from original sin and will not be condemned for Adams transgressions, we are not saved in our own sins. We do not have to be baptized to enter the telestial kingdom, children under the age of 8 and those that do not have the presence of mind to be able to accept and be baptized will enter the celestial kingdom, we have to do more to get into the other two kingdoms, but not to boast of ourselves but to glorify God.
Fair 👆🏻
Good info! Thanks for the video! Another good reason why relying on the Bible only is a bad idea. The more scripture you have the easier it is to find the truth.
What we do (faith, repentance, baptism, endure to the end) QUALIFIES us for a salvation we cannot earn for ourselves. We do not earn salvation (satisfy the demands of justice), nor can we. This easily encompasses all of scripture.
Glad to see Jeff broaching the topic of baptism. For a discerning LDS christian, I think his explainations of baptismal proof texts really showcase the tendency for eisegesis among evangelicals. Taking these verses at face value makes it clear that baptism is a means of grace. While Pastor Jeff may hold to a sola fide position (faith alone) that he claims should exclude baptism from justification, I think it's worth pointing out that Martin Luther, the man who coined the five solas, believed ardently in baptismal regeneration.
Teaching baptismal regeneration is not overemphasizing the importance of baptism, its the proper teaching of Christ's doctrine. Also, dropping that little hint that our temple baptisms are some kind of pagan practice is most unappreciated. While I can get behind evangelicals on rejecting infant baptism and (for some of them) on the mode of full immersion, overall it would seem that evangelicals have an incredibly poor take on baptism.
Thank you. Please explain why Jesus was then baptized? He didn't need a pledge... 2 Nephi 31 gives a pretty good explanation. I'd love to hear why there's so much disagreememt amongst evangelicals for John 3:5 and why that’s seemingly okay. If you've been to Rome, early Christianity practiced baptism for the dead... not just Corinth. Paul's casual reference of baptism for the dead was accepted in the day. Paul didn't condemn it... he likely introduced it.
Pastor Jeff brings up a great point.
Baptism is commanded to us by Jesus. Are there any consequences when we do not do what Jesus Christ asks of us?
Mark 16:15-16....If you believe in Christ... Then this belief leads to baptism. That's a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at. There are no hoops to jump through. No trying to reinterpret or reinvent meaning. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you will be baptized in his name. If you don't believe you will obviously not choose baptism and you will be condemned. How do you twist the meaning of the words? People mock members of the church of Jesus Christ for pulling the same mental acrobatics you do yourself.
What does it mean to be saved? Pastor Jeff said that it is resurrection and being cleaned from sin so that we can be brought back in to the presence of God.
We believe being saved is being saved from eternal death. Bringing our spirits back in to our bodies and being resurrected. Christ is champion over death. Furthermore through the atonement of Jesus Christ we can repent and be saved. What does that mean? We can repent of our sins believing in Christ and following his example to be baptized in his name. Without Christ, we cannot be cleansed from our sins and be brought back in to the presence of God. However, this is our choice. Christ can't force us to experience all of the promised blessings God has in store without us first opening the door that is baptism.
I would like to reiterate the discussion i prefer to have; are there any consequences to not doing what Jesus Christ asks of us? What does it mean to ignore Jesus Christ? Does it mean we don't love him? Do we really believe in Christ if we don't do what he asks? Do you trust in Christ?
We must do ALL that Christ asks use to do to experience the full blessings provided by God through his son, Jesus Christ.
That's cool that you just toured the St. George Temple, my 4th Great Grandfather was the architect of that edifice when it was originally built.
I love the reference to the flood because even the Earth had to be immersed in water in order to become a new Earth in the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
This is why we have the restoration and the BOM. They remove confusion. It isn't up to our interpretation anymore.
@HelloSaints (Edited for grammar corrections only) Jeff, I appreciate everything you do on this channel. I will add somethings that are on my thoughts. Firstly, Acts 2 is pretty direct. And taking that in congruents with both Mark 16 and 1 Peter, I find this pretty clear. Now, when you incorporate that Jesus himself, being our example, went to one holding authority, being his cousin John, and receives baptism. Jesus' conversation with John states, in the king james version, Matt 3:14 - 17 "But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest though to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus if becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him." I shan't continue quoting beyond this... I'm also certain, you, who is highly educated, knows the verses of which I Reference. Here comes my point, based on your opinion and what you see as the LDS perspective, who is right and how are you able to get to the truth. Opinion and cross referencing is nice, on both sides, but can't get to the ACTUAL truth. The only source of truth is found from the truth giver only. Meaning, there is no disputation when it comes directly from God and not from interpretation. Does this mean the LDS version is the correct version OR that the Protestant version is correct? It does not, it does mean that one authorized to speak for the LORD, or the Lord themself, must answer the question directly. The rest falls short. AMOS 3:7 comes to mind. Prophets are needed to answer the actual question. Do I feel a regular person can be quickened by the spirit and receive the actual answer, yes. And that would literally turn them into a Prophet.
Again sir Jeff, I respect you greatly and appreciate all you've done. These are just things to think on, not trying to educate or convince.
Thanks again
I hope one day Jeff sees the light.
Baptism is soooooo important that Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptized, and John felt unworthy to baptize Jesus saying that Jesus should baptize him, and Jesus said suffer it to be so, that it shall fulfill all righteousness.
And if Jesus that was sinless had to be baptized then how much more do we need to be baptized.
Baptism is the first covenant that we make to join with the heavens government on earth.
He told Nicodemus " except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven "
Interesting, the excuses evangelicals have for not doing what Christ and Heavenly Father command about meeting their criteria for entrance to their kingdom through baptism.God sets the entrance/inheritance criteria, not men or their interpretations.
Justifying your philosophy doesn't cut it, it's what God says counts that counts. See DC: 22.
If baptism isn’t necessary then why did Jesus tell his apostles to preach repentance and baptism? You said it is a command then I would say if the Lord commands something then it should be very important and necessary.
I cover this question in this video.
Why would Jesus Himself be baptized if not as an example of what we should do to follow him. And what about one Lord, one faith, one baptism?
Remember the story of Naaman who had leprosy and the prophet Elisha told him to wash himself seven time in the river Jordan but Naaman did not like that method and was angry. Elisha's 'servant' asked him to try and and he finally did and was healed. Please consider how simple it really is.
The powerful spirit at the temple when being baptized for the dead is so undeniably strong that I can’t fathom it being just for the people of Corinth to appease their pagan beliefs.
In any case, I find it interesting that you are looking to learn and find similarities between the Evangelical and LDS church. Part of me still doesn’t get why but I appreciate your good intentions. All the best!
@@alumniadri8716 anyone that brings people to Christ is good, comparisons are not good. All the best to you. So happy we believe in the same Jesus Christ who was sent by a loving God, as His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have Everlasting life. 🫶🏼
@alumniadri8716 Please explain what you mean. As a Protestant for the first 35 years of my life and a Latter-day Saint for the last 25 years, I'm eager to hear about the Jesus you know and how He differs from the Jesus I know.
@@johnwgarrett1it's a Mystery 😂 or the trinity is not in the Bible.
So TRUE when my husband was baptized for my uncle we could feel his presence and little things that happened helped us to know he was there and accepted the Gospel
@@alumniadri8716 I’ve done baptisms for my dead in the temple and can only say that it’s a beautiful experience that is sacred. I know the real Jesus Christ as far as I, a sinner, can in this life. I never realized how much we have in this amazing restored gospel of Jesus Christ until I listened to Hello Saints. How can I explain all of this to another, while at the same time conveying the life changing experiences it has to offer? I just know it’s true and I, too, urge you to know for yourself.
The Holy Spirit is only received after we are baptized, so the verse that your referring in the beginning of the video is has so many many meanings, we can feel the spirit, but the Holy Spirit is only received after we are baptized, the covenants are necessary to reconcile with Christ, not only because I’m good man and accept Christ, and forget everything that Christ mentioned, that’s why we believe in the Book of Mormon , because seen like you have partial knowledge, like the Jews , when Christ came to the world, every one believe in the Old Testament only, now you believe, Old Testament and New Testament, but you still have partial truth, but keep it up , you will get there , if not here , later in the millennium ……please read Moroni chapter 8 in the Book of Mormon about baptism of kids and 3 nephi 11 and 12 Christ commands every one to be baptized
I have a testimony of baptism by the proper authority. When you get baptized by one who has been commissioned of Jesus Christ you can feel that it is true and valid in his sight. He offers it to everyone! Those alive and those who have died. It is a necessary ordinance to receive Eternal life.
My baptism was the most joyful day of my life, because the Holy Spirit was so beautiful and confirmed my sins were forgiven. I was truly born again and in full union with God once my baptism was completed with receiving the gift of the HG. I experienced the full power of this ordinance and it still blesses my life to this day. Had i declined it I would have missed so much healing and blessings. Sorry Pastor Jeff, on this occasion your interpretation of scripture just doesn’t stack up.
Jeff we do not believe that it is the Baptism is what is saving. We believe that Baptism is what is needed to enter into the covenants required to obtain salvation.
I view it like this, do I take Jeff’s interpretation of scripture, having no authority to interpret scripture? Or do I listen to Prophets called by God to tell us the Will of God?
I have had a lot of conversations with evangelicals and one thing I have noticed is they love to mention “context” to insert their own personal interpretation.
Thank you for your comment. This is exactly what our LDS members who don’t really understand the covenant and ordinances need to hear.
If you ignore context, history, culture, languages, etc. you can very easily miss the true meaning of Scriptures. You should be very concerned if your church leaders are telling you to ignore these things and only listen to them.
@@kevins4254 they aren’t telling us this. But what I find annoying is when these pastors pretend like they are the ones with the correct “context” and yet they all disagree on how a lot of these verses are interpreted.
@@Lola-sz8zu we do say Baptism is a saving ordinance. But what is disingenuous is that pastor Jeff understands what we mean by “being saved” and yet pretends as if we are saying those who do not get baptised will not attain their version of heaven. Remember to them God the Father is invisible, unseeable, everywhere and nowhere. They are expecting what we would consider terrestrial glory. They don’t believe in the degrees of glory but whenever I speak with them it always makes me laugh because we aren’t even talking about the same thing when addressing what it means to be “saved” . Saved from what? Saved from hell? Congrats you will indeed need faith to be saved from “hell”.
15:57 "Pagan practice" 🙄 Just call anything Pagan that isn't supported by your tradition?
When you put a single nail in a board you can spin it in any direction you want. When you place a second or additional nails in the board fixes the direction and keeps it from spinning. The doctrines of baptism is simply being spun in any direction you want in evangelical Christianity. This shows the need for latter day scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and Latter Day prophets and apostles.
I think it's wonderful that the Hello Saints channel comments section has become a great testimony meeting for the saints.
Probably not meant for that---But enjoy yourself
The Bible could say, “you have to be baptized to be saved” but you could still somehow spin it to mean the opposite
This just makes me believe Joseph Smith even more. He said, “The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.
In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?”
I love Nephi’s explanation of why we need to be baptized in 2 Nephi 32.
Thanks for your super respectful thoughts and opinions
Chapter 31 of 2 Nephi.
Faith. If my Savior asks me and shows me what to do, I will do my best to do as best I can. Getting baptized it's one of the easiest thing I can do to show that I want to be like Him. Tithing. Sure, I can use that extra cash in my pocket but OUR SAVIOR commands us to give 10 percent of what we earn, and that's another easy thing I CAN DO to SHOW I BELIEVE IN THE SAVIOR of the WORLD. Repentance. Repentance has been hard because of how stubborn I can be and the hardened of my heart but MY SAVIOR teaches over and over, that I need to REPENT so that my heart can change, with HIS HELP, and HIS GRACE can save me. These are one of the things OUR SAVIOR HAS TAUGHT. DO NOT GET FOOLED by wolf's in sheep clothing and let them astray you with their words because they "interpret" it wrong. GOD is not a GOD of confusion, and HIS WORDS are very clear. ASK HIM!
@MissBoricuaGirl No disagreement here ... thanks for clarifying.
And now you can see why we need a prophet and open heavens
Why didn’t Paul condemn the practice of baptism for the dead, then? He certainly wasn’t shy about setting the Corinthians straight when they were wrong. It seems like a missed opportunity for clarity that he certainly would have taken, if baptism for the dead were indeed “pagan” as you put it.
Completely agree, if the practice of baptisms for the dead was a “pagan” practice carried over by the people of Corinth,
1) why wouldn’t Paul condemn the practice?
2) why would he reference it to teach about the actuality of Christs resurrection if it was a false practice?
Perhaps it just wasn't what Paul was most concerned about at the time. He writes, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" The context is people in Corinth who were denying the resurrection of the dead; a belief that renders the Gospel impotent; the most serious of false beliefs. He is using their baptism for the dead to point out an inconsistency in thier belief. Baptism for the dead makes no sense if the dead are not raised.
The practice is in no way commended, merely mentioned to make a point about thier more serious problem of denying resurrection.
Also, the group doing the baptizing for the dead isn't Paul or the Corinthians he is addressing. He didn't say "we" or even "you" (plural) in addressing those who baptize for the dead. He said "they." The only other thing we know about this other group in Corinth is that they denied the resurrection. Given this, it seems like caution in adopting their other practice (mentioned only here and not shared by Paul or the other Corinthians) is warranted.
If we don’t take this (Jesus’ commandment to be baptized) seriously, why should we take anything He commanded seriously besides believing in Him? All the beatitudes were just pretty words? Not necessary to follow him, just believe in him?
Why did Christ get baptized even tho he was sinless? Because not doing so would’ve been a sin.
Jeff you mentioned that baptism is a commandment Jesus Christ said if ye love me ( meaning Jesus) keep my commandments not some commandment all commandments. Is not about balanceing is about obeying
This form of argument I find very unreasoned. WE don't save ourselves by baptism... we get baptized as a modality of Christ's saving power. ITs not OUR work, its God's work. If you're standing at the Pearly Gates, and God says come walk inside to heaven, will you say "no thanks, that includes me walking and I am saved regardless." This zero effort doctrine is so beyond what Paul intended. We CANNOT save ourselves by any personal action per se, but faith is effort. This idea of thinking yourself into heaven could have been summed up in a page in the Bible... and yet, we have more than 1 page. "“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." "DO" is a big word, which requires more than one page.
John the Baptist came before Jesus to prepare the wayfor Jesus. He specifically brought to people the doctrine of baptism. He testified of Christ all along the way. Why introduce the doctrine of baptism and Jesus together if they were not essentially tied to one another.
You work really hard to dance around a commandment that is very clear. Christ was an example in the river Jordan. This is called an Ordinance of salvation.
In the end. Faith without work is dead. If a man cannot follow a simple ordinance / action then how can you follow or do all the teachings of Jesus Christ?
Jesus is the way truth and the light, Faith followed and do as He was baptised, how much more we needed to be baptised
I agree that nothing we can do saves. Without Christ nothing we do saves us. With Christ baptism saves us.
Jeff, the scripture the asker was thinking about comes from the Book of Mormon. 3 Nephi 11
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a littlechild, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
This is helpful clarification. Thank you!
The doctrine of Christ is simple and beautiful. His doctrine is established amongst us for our salvation and exaltation. Baptism not excluded.
Very confusing!!!! On one hand you say the Bible is literally Gods word to us, but you interpret them so different than what is actually written.
Interesting. The part I alam stuck on is that if "nothing we do" saves us....then we would all be saved automatically. By saying one must accept Christ.....that's us doing something. We don't think dunking in water saves, we think that it is how God has asked us to witness our acceptance of Christ. Can you really be accepting Christ if you don't do as we believe God commanded? I'd say no. Also, Paul isn't shy about condemning, why would he not condemn baptism for the dead? And instead use it as proof for the ressurection? That would make no sense.
I hear what you’re saying. I think the illustration I would use regarding your statement about faith /works would be somebody who is drowning in the ocean. When the Coast Guard helicopter shows up and drops a raft, the person who is drowning must grab onto it. It would be crazy for that person to return home and say that he saved himself by grabbing onto the raft. The Coast Guard saved them. This is how we view faith: it’s us receiving the rescue from sin Jesus provides; it is not our work that saves us but his. Baptism is a proclamation to everyone around us that we have taken him up on his offer of salvation.
I get you but I, and I think most ordinance heavy Christian denominations, would say that the fact remains that he still had to grab on. We just see the grabbing as something different.
Agreed.
Baptism is not just for the cleansing, Jesus Christ was baptized. It is to make the flesh born unto God, the father. This part about being born unto God is done in the waters of baptism like coming out of the womb of mother Earth. Once we become, a son or daughter of god then we are then cleansed by the atonement because we are one with Christ and with our father
One thing that has been taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints through revelation is that Adam was baptized by water and he received baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost and passed it down to his decendents. So they practiced the making of covenants through baptism until they went astray.
I invite Pastor Jeff and my Evangelical friends to watch gospel lessons.
It seems like an ancient prophet would literally have to write: "baptism is essential to be saved" for evangelicals to believe. But even then, it would be explained away in its "context".
BTW latter saints do not believe that baptism saves us, of course, only Jesus and his atoning sacrifice saves us. We just believe God has asked us to do certain things and if we do not, we are choosing not to be saved (in the celestial kingdom at least).
Pastor Jeff definately says thing that draw close to me with his lips but i feel he denies the power there of. Baptism by water and the holy ghost is the gate in wich we enter. Something i think is missing is the priesthood. The priesthood is the power and authority to act for god. We also believe baptism is a saving ordinances. All must be baptised by the right authority.
Jesus said “I am the gate”
@@beavispdx For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. “And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate.
@@beavispdx 41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
Together with @DavidMonk8, I am grateful for prophets and apostles who are available to clarify passages of scripture and divine expectations.
Pastor Jeff acknowledges that some of these points are matters of great debate within mainstream Christianity.
Joseph Smith realized early that an appeal to the Bible alone would not be sufficient to resolve our understanding. The LDS Church doesn't have ALL the answers yet, either.
But, thankfully, there are many important points of doctrine that have been explained and solidified in terms even children can understand. They are sometimes referred to as "plain and precious" truths. I am grateful for the understanding that God loves and cares for ALL his children.
And I love what Elder Holland said (paraphrased), "The Lord has only ever had imperfect people to work with, but He deals with it. Maybe we should, too."
Baptism was a very well known idea in the time of Jesus as even he had recently been baptized. Nicodemus Asked Jesus for clarification. Had Jesus meant baptism he would have said so.
I agree with this.
@TheNinjaFam ... thanks for commenting. My kids are huge fans!
With Nicodemus, Jesus used descriptive words "being born of water" to signify the act of baptism. That, coupled with being born of the Spirit, is needed to ENTER the kingdom of God. Being born of the Spirit permits you to see the kingdom. You understand it whereas those who are not born of the Spirit don't "get it". But to actually enter the kingdom, baptism is essential. That is what Jesus taught here. Elsewhere Jesus is very specific. HE said to the eleven to "Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (If you don't believe you aren't likely to be baptized anyway, and if you get baptized without belief... you are just getting wet since belief [being born of the Spirit] is necessary as well. Both are needed, according to Jesus, to be saved. No wresting of the scriptures needed here. No "balance" necessary with other scriptures. Jesus said it. Jesus was baptised to show us the way. His way. I believe Jesus. He is the way. He showed us the way. It is a simple way. HE is the ultimate authority on what is necessary. If Jesus said it, then that is the way.
@@HelloSaints Why am I the only one to agree with you, or at least to thumbs up? Obviously, mostly LDS members are the commenters. I am a born again Christian and just to make it short and sweet ; I'm watching your teachings and seeing the LDS dispute issues. Bottom line: as written in The Bible in Revelations, we are taught not to take away from or add to The Bible. I could never deviate from that and join a cult that believes in a "prophet" who fills in for what the Bible teaches. As you know, I'm referring to ANY religion that does that,not just LDS. In conclusion, just wanted to say hello and let you know that there's at least one Christian out here, watching and listening to what You are teaching, trying so hard to overlook what I consider to be a fictional gospel. I have had several LDS and SDA friends who have struggled so much and have been so disillusioned while trying to escape to a life of Christianity. It's difficult enough to rightly divide and seek our own salvation with just one book, The Bible
I really love your videos and I appreciate that you create this safe enviroment while you make them. Though as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints I would just like to say that we believe in the balance of be and do. I actually found this being explained by Elder Lynn G. Robbins in this months Liahona magazine. He explains, "Be without do is faith without works or charity without ministering-- "is dead, being alone" (James 2:17)"
He also says how do without be is as the Savior says hipocrisy.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that by being baptized we are covenanting with our Father in Heaven and showing that because we have faith in him we will do the works that he asks us to do. And so from our point of view it is in a way to show our faith. Not beacause it will save us. But because we would want to show that we have faith in him. And the baptisims for the dead are so that we can give the chance to those who had died if they would accept faith in Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Heavenly Father knows our intentions. He will know if we simply did the act or if we truly genuinely had faith in Him. But by doing the baptism we have shown him that we are not all talk. That we will also do what he asks of us. And the things we do because of our faith starts from the baptism. That our works help us grow our faith.
I really hope that helped. And I would just really like to show my appreciation about how you do not criticize and is civilly trying to do this. thank you!
We Must Be Baptized for the Remission of Our Sins (Acts 2:38) (Acts 22:16). We Must Be Baptized to Show Obedience (Matthew 3:15). I am glad the Book of Mormon witnesses the truth of Bible passages. (2 Nephi 31:4-13).
If your interested, the Orem Temple open house just started if you want to look into that temple as well.
are they not all identical inside?
@@Donnie-Lee-Gringo they have the same rooms but they're not all designed the same way
Yeah I have been in 4 of them.2 with a recommend card. All the same purpose with a lot of expensive decorations@@Thrillmaster100
Can you explain to me why Christ, the only perfect person, then was baptized to fulfill the law. Matthew 3:13-17
One small critique of your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 1. Nowhere in the passage you read is Paul saying they are overemphasizing the ordinance of baptism. He is critiquing that they are dividing Christ's Church by aligning themselves to who baptized them rather than to Christ.
But overall good work as always explaining how we differ in interpretation of these passages!
...I think the fact that baptism is what was separating these groups is clear. So, it does seem like there is a strong emphasis on baptism by the Corinthians. Just because the word "overemphasized" is not used doesn't mean that's not what is being done. In other words, you wouldn't say the plan of salvation is not Biblical because the exact words "plan of salvation" aren't found in the Bible. Just my opinion only.
@@BGCflyer Even if they were over emphasizing baptism, that's not the point that Paul was talking about. He was chastening them for bickering and dividing the church up over WHO was doing the baptism, and about how that division among them separating them from Christ, not that baptism wasn't necessary. Christ is the messenger of the covenant and the establisher of the ordinance; Paul was not discouraging or in discourse against baptism. Paul is getting really specific with the early saints in Corinth about dividing themselves. Baptism is as necessary as Christ instructed it to be for us. It is essential and is the gateway He established in love for us to follow Him. Much love. 💕
Right, and it even aligns with the fact that in our church the Prophet isn't the one who is responsible to baptize everyone, not even the Bishops. They can, but their primary role is to preach the gospel, delegate responsibilities, and oversee the church or ward. The authority to baptize is delegated down. Even 16 year old Priests in our church has the authority to baptize. So exactly, Paul was teaching them that they all belong to the same church which is Christ's because they were all baptized by persons who were given the same authority to baptize in Christ's name to become part of Christ's church.
@@BGCflyer I'm not understanding the relationship between your plan of salvation example and what I was pointing out. I was just noting that the interpretation Jeff gave is reading more into the passage than what is actually in the text. In other words, it's not rigorous exegesis. It's not necessarily a completely wrong interpretation, but it goes beyond what the text itself says in my opinion.
@@xrpreacher6000 ...maybe we are talking past each other here? I agree with your understanding of the early church fussing over WHO was doing the baptism.
Just a side note here. Any thoughts on why Jesus didn't ever baptize anyone himself? I'm not implying it wasn't important.
Christ, the only perfect being, and the perfect example, was baptized. That, and all the scripture that supports the subject is enough for me, and should be enough for every believer. I don't think most believers feels the act of baptism saves, just like no believer should feel like a one-time act of being "born again" or "saved" is the only thing that qualifies saving. Christ is the Savior, and what our response is after being "saved" or baptized is as important. We must align our will, our life to His will over time, overcoming the personal obstacles that alienate us from Him. So yes we can be baptized, we can become saved, but the process of becoming continues.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for all your videos. I am Latter-Day Saint and I enjoy watching them, learning more about your beliefs, and I appreciate how you try to understand my faith and beliefs. I hope you have a wonderful day.
Keep studying, keep the faith, and eventually you'll come to the truth with a desire to keep the commandments and be saved (Matt 19:16-17)…
@Hello Saints, Latter-day Saints would see baptism as the divinely approved method of covenant relationship that kickstarts that cleansing process.
Correction: The Bible contains no scripture that is the LDS BASIS for baptism for the dead. The basis for that practice is modern revelation. Period.