I am surprised that you shared everything you learned (0:52) in 22 minutes and 19 seconds (and that includes the obligatory intro that youtube videos have which I myself dislike) 😉
I’m always surprised and pleased with your charitable take on your experiences among us. I look forward to attending your service with my wife one of these days. Btw count me in if you’re ever invited to present at eduction week 🙋
I was surprised the teacher's answer to you as to where someone like you would go. Personally, as a Latter-day saint, I disagree with him. I would say it would depend on the spiritual witness you receive. If you were presented the info, received a spiritual confirmation, and then pushed it aside or preferred not to act on it, that would be more likely. BUT (huge but) I don't think any of us can say for certain who's going where in the end while here on earth. We're by no means the perfect judge/advocate. That role goes to Jesus.
Jeff, as a 6th generation member of the LDS church, I still don’t understand everything and struggle to make sense of some things just like you. My 3rd great-grandfather was one of the earliest converts to the LDS faith and knew the prophet Joseph well, and was a bodyguard to him. He wrote in his journal one day about how he was in the Nauvoo temple before it was fully constructed, performing baptisms for the dead. Joseph was present and my grandfather came to him and said that he did not believe in this practice. Instantly he fell to the floor and the others present were told by Joseph to pick up brother Abraham (Palmer…my grandfather) and place him on a bench - for he is learning the doctrine of baptism for the dead. A few moments later, Abraham came to himself and stood up and said “I have come to know for myself that this is a true doctrine”, and proceeded to help with performing the ordinance. God gives us milk before meat. If we are not ready for the WHY, then we must sometimes just practice the law or doctrine to come to understand it. It’s like that with me and tithing. God doesn’t need my $$. But by living this law, I have witnessed countless blessings in my life, both temporal and spiritual. Proverbs 3:5-6 says it well: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Love the videos, and I’ve been following you in this journey and you may not see it, but I definitely see a different Jeff than when you set out.
With regards to the who goes to what kingdom question - it is not our (LDS) assumption that just because we have gone to church our whole lives every Sunday, and made all the necessary covenants / saving ordinances for ourselves and have regularly attended the temple to do proxy work that that’s our free ticket to the Celestial Kingdom. Those things are all good - but again faith without works is dead (and vice versa), so if this outward performing saint lacks faith, hope and charity, he / she would be very uncomfortable living in a Celestial order if they are inwardly prideful, selfish, carnally-minded people. Neither the presentor of that class, nor a bishop or the president of the Church has the power to judge our final eternal destiny. That belongs to God, with Christ as our advocate with the Father.
I do find it interesting that as an Evangelical who doesn’t believe in LDS doctrine, that the idea of being in a degree of Glory where the Saviour will be, and which is glorious beyond description, and is exactly the heaven that you envision, seems to offend you - while most Evangelicals have no problem thinking that all LDS believers will go to Hell for believing in a “different Jesus”. God is merciful and just and He will not force His children into a covenant relationship with Him. But for those who will, He offers more than just salvation to your comfort level. He offers exaltation and “all that the Father hath”.
I think you're not able to understand the perspective. As a Protestant I didn't notice any offense in this video. But it's not a concern about which heaven you tell us we'll be in, but a concern about others having the right perspective of our sin separating us from God and how God brings us back into right relationship with Him. That is the Protestant understanding of heaven and hell. We're all already on a path towards hell if we don't have a right relationship with God because of Adam and Eve's sin. You're assuming Protestants view everyone as neutral and God decides our eternal destination based on the Jesus one understands. But it isn't that way. Jesus is God and He knows if He has a relationship with you or not - He knows if you have submitted to his salvation. If you do not have a relationship with Him, but it was some kind of idol instead, you do not spend eternity with Him.
We don't believe everyone is neutral. We believe we are all sinners, but we don't subscribe said state to Adam's choice but rather take accountability and say our fallen state is our own. We also don't believe you are judged according to the Jesus you understand. Our Eternal Father judges us all based on His wisdom, mercy, and love. And the One true Saviour and God of mankind stands as our advocate to the Father.
@@valeried7210you say god knows if we have a relationship with him. But boy are evangelicals quick to think they know what God thinks about LDS and no matter what relationship we have with God, We are going to hell. What you say is completely the opposite to what you express in word and belief to LDS. So which is it? Are we going to hell because we are LDS? Or are we not because we have a real and personal relationship with Christ? You have taken the role of Christ and become judge, jury, and, executioner.
@@brainhunter1000 we can know through the Bible what Jesus says about Himself. If anyone goes to hell, it's because of their sin and not because of any membership they have. If they go to heaven, it's because they know the one true living God. I don't know your relationship with God unless it contradicts something He has told me about Himself. I do claim Him as a friend, and could only tell you what He says.
I disagree with that sentiment that people who hear the teachings but don’t accept them can’t receive celestial glory, as there is a lot of assumptions made. For example when we say they have heard the teachings, are they receiving them from some random person or from someone who has the spirit with them and they feel that spirit then turn it all down. There are two different situations. But even then I would say the way a person lives there life is an important aspect of the judgment. All this to say I think there is too much for us to say definitely who can get celestial glory and who won’t. The most important thing is to live a good life and serve those around us in short live like Christ as much as possible.
Amen! I couldn’t agree more. it really doesn’t matter a person’s religion; it matters how one lives their life. Are we kind to people from all different backgrounds and faiths (or no faith)? Do we serve those around us even if it means we have to get outside our comfort zone? are we trying to treat others and love others like Jesus did? We don’t need to get all hung up over where we go when we die. I like to believe that God is not punitive.
I think n I believe and what is said is a difference thing of what is stated and what do those statements really mean. If you believe in God just know that Christ's did us a favor by dying for us. Becauae only he can advocate for our ignorance. Hopefully by than we are in a more grateful humbled attitude.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s as simple as you listened to the teachings of the LDS church and didn’t accept it. There are also a lot of people who grew up in the church and for whatever reason reject it - maybe because they misunderstand something or they just have a problem with something in the church. I don’t think their fate is sealed so to speak. The work continues throughout the millennium and up until the resurrection. I believe Jesus is giving us every opportunity to repent and receive the ordinances.
Pastor- it is understood everywhere in the church that Joseph Smith was only a prophet. Jesus Christ is always the focus of our worship. No one believes Joseph Smith is greater than Jesus.
@@HMC117 Do you mean the hymn: Praise to the Man (Joseph Smith) who communed with Jehovah. Jesus anointed that prophet and seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation.😁
I’m active LDS, and I find the idea of degrees of glory very comforting and moving. That said, I don’t think it’s given to us so that we can look around us and decide what degree of glory each person we know will end up in. Speaking only for myself, I want all that our Father offers, and I hope for the same for everyone else I know. I trust Him completely to sort this out. The description of the degrees of glory is helpful to me because it describes the way I should aspire to conduct my life. Jesus was pretty clear that no one who receives a gift from God has grounds to complain that others receive the same reward even though he thinks they are less deserving.
Yes and yes again! We are nobodies judge. Christ is judge. We have no right to determine what level of acceptance in this life will save us in the celestial kingdom. We only know before judgement you and everyone will be given a perfect opportunity for them to accept each teaching and that at some point must accept the gospel and be baptized by someone in authority. But we should never make the judgement of what that means for a specific person, when it will happen, or what a perfect opportunity looks like.
I completely agree. Like you've said Pastor Jeff, God is ever full of mercy and grace! I believe God's purpose is to save the world not to condemn it. His work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I believe that eternal life in this context is to live with and like our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ. He will give everyone a perfect opportunity to receive whichever glory they are prepared for. I truly believe that decision will be in each individual's best interest with their eternal growth and wellbeing in mind. AND only God can decide where that is. He is the judge.
@@brainhunter1000 I don't disagree with you that we on Earth are nobody's judge, but there is a definitive framework to determine which degree of glory an individual will obtain after receiving universal salvation, and in most cases it's possible to discern _hypothetically_ where someone fits within that framework barring any circumstances of which we are indeed not the judge. With regard to Judgement, the system and roles described in the scriptures reference different things at different times, with both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ acting as judge, and even servants such as the Apostles (Matthew 19:28; 1 Nephi 12:9-10) fulfilling this function. My understanding is that Heavenly Father is the ultimate and final Judge of mankind, and when we stand before Him in the Court of Heaven it is Christ who will perform the role of Advocate and plead our case before the Father, with particular scrutiny where individual circumstances do not situate someone clearly within the framework for determining and receiving glory. On the other hand, before assuming the role of Advocate before the Father, Christ Himself must first determine what our case actually is and the nuances of our individual circumstances. In this capacity He serves as Judge (in the Court of Zion, to my mind, because what else is there to get done in the Millennium other than temple work) and appoints righteous servants to assist Him as auxiliary judges in this endeavour.
@@michaelheliotis5279 beautifully said. I think also that we judge ourselves. The Book of Mormon talks about the resurrection being a restoration. Like restored to like. In that sense, we decide ourselves where we will end up.
Now for Celestial Glory in the presence of the Lord I will work and watch and humbly bow the knee No longer Faith but Knowledge in True and sweet Accord since the Precious Angel Message came to me -From an RLDS hymn.
Jeff, I've watched your channel off & on since the beginning. Your courage, integrity, and growth in understanding are nothing short of amazing. It thrills me to see you've made so many friends like Tyler and others who are among the best educators in our Church. As one who has listened to a lot of Christian radio for decades now, I've noticed a gradual coming together by some. The Chosen TV series is also helping our faiths to unify so we can stand stronger together as witnesses of Christ in a hostile world. You are doing a valuable work that few would undertake. We all have so much yet to learn of Christ and the life to come that I don't think anyone has all the answers. But as saints who believe in continuing revelation, eventually, answers will come to those who seek them. I love learning with you and that you are willing to learn right along with us.
Active Latter-day Saint here. I disagree with the instructor who said mainstream Christians would automatically go to the terrestrial kingdom if they didn’t join the LDS church. The reality is that anyone who says they know who will end up exactly where is taking judgement from Christ to whom it belongs. In my opinion, that instructor was off base.
…I agree that it’s only God who ultimately determines our fate after this life. On the other hand, the LDS are quite clear that without the saving ordinances done by “a person with priesthood authority”…ie. LDS, that person will not receive Celecial Glory. If you don’t believe this, please re-read the Doctrine and Covenants. You might not agree with it, but that is what is being taught.
This is what I was thinking. We don't know where everyone will go, what rules they'll have to abide by to get there, or if "receiving the gospel" is more accepting Christ in our lives. And besides, Christ would know how difficult it would be to accept something so similar, yet radically different. Whether or not we're drawing closer to Him should be the main concern.
Yeah, I think pastor Jeff and all others like him will get the opportunity in the millennium or the spirit world to accept ordinances to go to the celestial kingdom. God is all knowing and merciful, all will get their chance with perfect justice and mercy.
This is incorrect. I agree with the instructor, and I’d be curious to hear you elaborate about why you disagree. How can one enter the Celestial Kingdom without being baptized into the Kingdom of God? Do you mean that mainstream Christians don’t have to join the church in this lifetime because they can in the next? If so, then fine. This is not the same as “not joining the church.” Doctrinally you must join the church to receive salvation in the Celestial Kingdom whether it be in this life or the next.
@@BGCflyerWhile it is true that only those who receive all the ordinances can receive the highest glory, my understanding is that by judgement day every living soul will have received all necessary ordinances. That is what the millennium is for. So this will not be an issue. The only issue will be our faith and commitment to Jesus Christ and his Gospel, which all will have a better understanding of at that day.
8 :00 - Biblical scripture does not teach we are born into this world sinful. In fact... new born babies are absolutely sinless. It is not a sin to be born It is not a sin to be mortal and little children are innocent until they learn to sin and likewise learn not to. What the Bible does teach is, we are born with the capability to sin and will sin. And thankyou Jeff! Excellent show today. :>)
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and this is why no one can work their way to heaven. Psalm 139 In sin I was conceived. Jesus Christ, the thrill of hope, for a sick, hurting, and weary world-Romans 10:9-10 from the Bible: “That if you confess with your mouth the LORD Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”
@@polemeros Like I said and Psalms supports, we are born into a sinful world. In a sinful mortal reality. We are not born with sin. We develop a sinful nature through disobedience. Not born with sin.
I mean how can we get a more absurd evangelical reality of what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints actually believe?The Church members have never claimed to worship Joseph Smith, as much as the ancient Israelities never claimed to worship Moses. Look up what a prophet is and the role of a prophet. There are many, many examples in the Old and New Testament. Prophets testify of Christ--"That He lives...That by Him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." D&C 76:22-24. Joseph is a living prophet sent in these last days through the mercy of God, our Father, "That faith might increase in the earth; That mine everlasting covenant might be established; That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the earth, and before kings and rulers...to have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it out of obscurity and out of darkness." D&C 1:30. We have always claimed to worship Jesus Christ. He is the way, the truth, and the life. John 3:16. Everything we do is in His name, in His honor, in His glory, in His power. We can, of ourselves, do nothing. John 5:30.
I would say though as a cultural member the implications, the nuances and details of what that means doctrinally get Lost on so many and what that actually means for the present day. A good example is Joseph's runs for office versus jesus's condemnations of Roman officials and even religious officials. This plays heavily into whether someone who is learning about faith, government and their interplay is going to assume that someone should oppose what the government is doing versus accepting it. I take a nuanced view which is that over time and with different issues, you can't just be blindly contrarian and think that it's all going to be one or another. A good example I heard is "Hitler liked dogs, are you going to be like Hitler?" But to go deeper into it, Jesus specifically said blessed is the peacemaker, which is directly in opposition to acting in a violent manner, which being involved in the army will teach you to do. I know there are alot of people who think they can change things by being a force for good there and change people's minds and create a better culture, but the army has the term consciencous objector for a reason. The system already knows, has developed countermeasures long ago, and the system will change you far more than you can change the system. So to say Jesus deserves more credit than Joseph..... This actually means something, that can have direct implications in our lives and how they turn out. It's not only about who did what, but why and how.
@@ethanstump I honestly hoped that I could grasp your point brother, I feel like a simple statement turned into something over complicated. I would love if you could simplify your argument.
As others have said, the man who taught that a mainstream Christian would not receive Celestial glory is making a controversial statement within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Some would interpret his position as correct, many others would not. One thing we have been taught is that no one will ultimately be where they do not belong and that Jesus, who is our judge and has a perfect knowledge will consider every factor of our lives. In your case Pastor Jeff, and this is only my opinion, but I have little to no doubt of your eternal salvation and exaltation. You have shown yourself to be a brave, humble and devoted follower of Christ. So if the LDS view of the Plan of Salvation turns out to be true, I have no doubt that in the next life, when presented with a new perspective and ways to follow Christ, that after an awkward laugh you would accept the new information and continue to follow Christ. Ultimately though it is only Jesus Christ who can and will judge us.
You make several excellent points. The instructor at BYU Education Week made it clear that one who in mortality does not accept the covenant path to Celestial Glory will be limited to the Terrestrial Kingdom. But how that path is presented, the mind set of the person, and how the influence of the Holy Spirit is received can affect what is "accepted". A "new perspective" can make all the difference, whether in mortality or in the Spirit World. Choosing what to believe or not to believe can delay for years, even decades, a changed life that in retrospect could have been lived more fully. A conscious choice to delay with the expectation that a different decision can be made after death is unlikely in my opinion to work out well. However, choosing to not follow the covenant path because one does not believe it during mortality is different. And the opportunity for a new perspective in the Spirit World gives me great hope for some of my dearest ancestors who chose in this life to believe differently.
YES, THIS. We as LDS *can* believe that if you don't accept "the gospel" you lose out on the celestial kingdom but also believe the only one who can make this judgement call is God. We don't think these two ideas conflict because we don't know what constitutes knowing enough to be judged for it. And we don't know how much we'll learn after death before the decision is made. There's an interlude period between death and judgement, so who knows. No LDS member can ever claim to know who will go in what kingdom. We don't play the heaven for me, hell for you game. We don't believe that either you Jeff or the BYU prof has the power to make the judgement call. He's merely stating the doctrine. I wish you well on your journey just as everyone else in this life.
I love you man, but from my perspective, you got one thing wrong. You said that the teacher said, "because you haven't accepted the LDS Gospel, you'll go to the terrestial Kindom." Look, it's all about our commitment to follow Jesus. You are following Jesus the best way you know how. And I'm following Jesus the best way I know how. The question isn't, "what church did you join?" But we'll be face to face with Jesus, and we'll be judged on how well we followed him, his teaching, his example, his prophets. Did we truly take his name upon us. It's not about looking at it ID, it's about looking at our heart. There are plenty of Latter-Day Saints who will go to the Terrestial Kingdom, and plenty of Evangelicals who will go to the Celestial.
In D&C 10:67 the Lord says that His church are those who repent and follow Him. You are correct, and the scriptures, including the LDS scriptures back you up.
You are forgetting that there are two saving ordinances, baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost that must be performed by individuals holding God's authorized priesthood in order to go to the celestial kingdom. Remember in the Bible Jesus said, "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." That is the reason Jesus, in 1829, sent John the Baptist to restore the Aaronic Priesthood which has the authority to baptize. Baptism opens the gate to a remission of repentant sins, and provides membership in the Kingdom of God and the House of Israel which are all required to enter the celestial kingdom. It is also why He sent Peter, James, and John to restore the Melchizedek Priesthood which is required to give the Gift of the Holy Ghost so that a person can be "born again." These two saving ordinances are only found in the Kingdom of God as established by Jesus Christ and which He named The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints. No saving ordinances are required to go to either the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms. Read Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8: 14-20, 3 Nephi 11. Baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost are saving ordinances that are not performed in the temple for living persons. Temple ordinances are not required for salvation in the Celestial Kingdom, only to be exalted in the celestial kingdom.
One other thing, if someone believes that they will be with Jesus forever, and that God and Jesus are the same being, and they don't believe in eternal marriage, then they will end up in the Terrestrial Kingdom, and that is where they would want to end up. They would have access to Jesus and the Holy Ghost. That is their heaven, and they shouldn't be offended if we believe they would go where they ultimately want to go.
Absolutely, and if it wasn't clear in the class, learning goes on long after you die. You are not judged immediately. So if you, Pastor Jeff, along with all of us, are continuing to learn and change, and Jesus explained to you in a way you could understand about His plan of salvation and why we do what we do, about eternal progression, I have no doubt that your heart is one that would accept all He has to say, all He has to teach, and that you would want every blessing available to you. We will ALL have our understandings tweaked and will be given opportunities to change our minds, have our hearts changed, and continue to grow in response to all that we learn. So it's a little early to take the fatalist attitude that you are doomed in our eyes. It's not over until He says it's over - until you have been given a full understanding of exactly what you are turning down, should you choose to do so. Of course, he would be thrilled if you hastened that day and asked Him with a true and honest heart if what you are learning from the LDS church is true, but that's between you and Him. I love your videos, but would love to see you move from the intellectual understanding to the understanding of the heart and the spirit.
While they may not have known you specifically were in audience, it is very common for people who are not members of the church to attend these type of education weeks. It is expected. Because of that, the teacher may have felt the need to clarify that Jesus is greater than Joseph not because it is ever a misconception amongst members (we truly do understand and believe that), but because it is a common misconception of people who aren't members that they often like to lodge against our church. With that said, I really appreciate your take as well as the time and effort you put into both trying to understand our faith and beliefs and also give understanding of your faith and beliefs as well! It means more than you'll ever know
Hey, Jeff! I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into understanding how Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe and worship. It is useful to my own understanding, study, and examination to hear the perspective of someone who is learning this as an adult, and didn't grow up with it as part of every moment of your life. Thank you for fostering an atmosphere of collaboration and communication and exemplifying the peace the Jesus brought to people of differing beliefs. We truly can have differing beliefs and understandings, AND get along peacefully!
I have had immediate healing from priesthood blessings when I was not well, and had been very scared of how I was feeling. The comfort and healing that came over me was amazing. One was immediate. That was a stomach problem. Another one blessed me to know that Jesus would be working to help me to heal, right there, as I was sleeping. I was very comforted, humbled and amazed that he would come down to help me right then, personally. Other blessings I have had, before going into two hospitals, the promises in them all came very true, in the most complete sense of the word!! Because of my illness, I was nervous and apprehensive about the future before those blessings, but I am always comforted by the Holy Spirit, because I know that the inspiration is from God, and also the reassurance and the healing. The priesthood blesses the recipient, not just give counsel…but any counsel is inspired too. The more faith we have in what we are blessed with, the more power that the Lord has to perform his miracles.
Other comments have already touched on this but I would also support the notion that although we have a general idea of the criteria for each level of glory within the celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms, there's so much we don't know about specifics of how Christ's infinite mercy will be applied. One of my favorite titles of Jesus is our "advocate," AKA Jesus Christ is each individual's defense attorney at judgment day, and there is no one I'd rather have defend me at judgment day than Jesus. I'll also add one of the qualifications for the celestial kingdom is to be valiant in our testimonies of Jesus (D&C 76) and you're doing FANTASTIC work on that front Jeff, this is really great content to help others build their faith in the Savior!! That also plays into the grace vs. works conversation, which I'm so glad you touched on. It is amazing to think about grace actively playing a part in our lives every day here on Earth as the Holy Ghost guides us despite our imperfections, and not just on judgment day whether we've "done enough" because there could never be "enough," we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans). Works help us become more Christlike, and covenants (baptism, temple ordinances) help us accept Christ's atoning sacrifice, but at the end of the day we need grace start to finish, grace and works are both necessary to fulfilling God's mission statement, "For behold this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." -Moses 1:39
I think an important thing for Latter-Day Saints to remember when looking at any theological discussion with a Christian of a different faith is: we are different and supposed to be. We love common ground, and community with others who share many similar values, particularly in a world that is increasingly turning from a belief in any God other than self, but, we are not just another sect. We are different and meant to be. This is rooted in that we believe God still reveals. This is why the critique that our beliefs are not "biblical" doesn't exactly land. We want to hold to what is true, of course, but we are gratefully the recipient of so much more He has revealed that had provided us with clarity. We also know He will reveal more to help us clarify further as we grow closer to Him. Latter-Day Saints should be so grateful to not always be in step with "mainstream Christianity".
@josephfavre2909 I'm glad you are aware of these things. The LDS faith is different and meant to be that way. Christians do not worship the LDS Heavenly Father, the LDS Christ, nor do they believe in the LDS gospel. Revelation 21 and 22 tell us what heaven will be like. Believers will be all together on the new earth and new heaven serving God and Christ. The true and living God doesn't separate his children on different levels or planets. God would never damn people who deny the eternal principle of polygamy. (D&C 132) Women are not separated from their families, so they can be in a polygamous relationship for all eternity. Heaven is a world of love. God loves everyone. ❤️
@johntippets1737 In order to be justified before a holy God, we need to be perfect. We need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect. There is nothing anyone could ever do to measure up to God's standard of perfection. The good news, the gospel (I Cor. 15:1-4), is that Christ has already done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again. Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them. Jesus Christ imputes/ gives us his perfection as a gift. It's how Abraham and King David were justified. It's the only way anyone can get into heaven. James 2 - Works are the evidence of our faith.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do I agree that works are the evidence of our faith, and I also agree that faith and repentance are the crux of the gospel of Jesus Christ! In our doctrine, we also believe covenants by authority (baptism, the sacrament or communion, and the temple) allow us to accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice, which is really the main difference between Evangelicals and members of The Church of Jesus Christ that we believe in covenants by authority. Even if we make covenants however, we will always need Jesus' grace because our own efforts will never be sufficient to, as you said, reach Jesus's immensely high standard of perfection.
@@johntippets1737 For me, the main difference between the LDS church and Christianity is the God and Christ that I worship and the gospel that I believe in. The true and living God the Father is invisible and a spirit. He is not a man. (I Timothy 1:17, Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 11:27) The Christ of the Bible claimed to be God. (Not God the Father of course) Christ was crucified because he claimed to be God. It was called blasphemy and punishable by death. God the Father said that his Son was God. (Hebrews 1:8) The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Christ has already done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again. Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them. Making covenants, tithing, believing that the Book of Mormon is true, joining a church, believing that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, going through an Endowment Ceremony, putting on Lucifer's power and priesthoods, taking blood oaths, doing good works, getting married, etc., would never be enough to measure up to God's standard of perfection. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
As a person who grew up in the church and is no longer active. But still loves and appreciates the foundation the church provided for me… This video was beautifully done. I’ve seen so many people do these videos with obvious bias and negative energy. This video was beautifully done. It’s okay to not agree. You explained things simply and fairly and with an open mind. Thank you.
Thank you for attending so many church events and focusing on learning. So many don't want to put themselves in this position, or act charitably, but I appreciate how willing you are to learn about our beliefs, and respond to them with charity.
@@coleenburris6816 I don't think that's a judgement we can truly make. Believe that if you want. But I've had "discussions" with non-LDS Christians, and they can be... Aggressive. Someone who stands for being kind and understanding is appreciated.
@@coleenburris6816 you bet! I was referring to your comments accusing him of doing it for a paycheck. That's judging his motives and heart. The Holy Bible says only God knows the heart of man (1 Samuel 16: 7). Questioning motives may sometimes be appropriate, but not rash judgements. Using the Golden Rule helps me with this.
@@coleenburris6816 I think he's getting comments that he'll join and he wants to make it clear that is not his intention. I've also noticed a lack of objectivity at times. For example, he said Joseph was caught in the crossfire, but in reality Joesph was the main target, and they hit that target. We can point out things like that specifically, rather than try to judge his character. But he is usually very objective compared to most other non members of his religion.
Perhaps this is your calling and you are doing exactly what you should be doing. Just be the best person you can be then when you meet the Savior, he will know your heart. They talk in general terms with accepting the gospel.
@@Logos-TheGodMan Actually, he does not misrepresent. Open mindedness, so you know, is the ability to ciew many disparate objects and appreciate them for what they are. Christ was open minded, as are true christians, That does not mean accepting of all tings just that there is appreciation for all things. God bless you to reach that state of Christ like being. Remember, jydge not that yet be not judged.
Thank you for attending the classes. I appreciate your insights as an outsider. Yes, at the end of the day, we have to drive past these intellectual exercises and drive toward the heart. May we all continue to grow in His Grace. And good luck with next year's selection to educate us!
Thank You for a serious effort to understand, but describing LDS a "top-down" misses the very point of the top-down structure: Jesus Christ IS the focal point and IS at the peak of the top-down structure! Thus, there is a single person, called, tried and proven (and uniquely supported by an undivided Quorum of 12 Apostles). and following the spiritual directions of Jesus Christ (again, supported by an undivided Quorum of 12)!! There IS no "rubber-stamping" of positions!!
@@zubenelgenubi It is top down though. One of the temple questions is, do you sustain the leaders of the church as the only ones authorized to speak for Christ (paraphrazed). Even when you receive a personal revelation you have to check it against what the leaders say. Which is to say, if it doesn't line up, it wasn't really from God.
Those that reject the gospel of Christ on this earth will achieve at most the Terrestrial kingdom. HOWEVER, it is unclear what constitutes a rejection. There is a continuous spectrum between a casual exposure to the church and receiving a witness of its truthfulness by the Holy Ghost. If you receive a clear witness and reject it, that is one thing, but everything in between is speculation and conjecture and I am happy that God sits as judge because no one else can know our hearts. In other words, no one knows the heart of pastor Jeff so any declaration about where he'll end up is speculation. In my opinion, when presented with the fullness of the truth by Christ after death, all sincere Christians will gladly accept Christ and make covenants with Him via the ordinances that are performed in temples.
Thanks Jeff! You are right, we do have a quite different understanding of the meaning of the fall and the purpose of the atonement. To me, it doesn't make the character of Jesus' love different (it is still sacrificial and infinite like the Jesus you believe in) but it does add another layer of purpose to the entire drama. That layer has to do with God knowing that the fall was necessary, specifically for our GROWTH. Rather than just to bring us into right relationship that had been lost, it is also, through that relationship and through the struggle of recovering it, to make us into beings of celestial glory so that Jesus can be "the first born among many brethren." God wants us to grow up in Him, and no eye can tell nor tongue can speak what He has prepared for them that love him.
I believe the single most important thing we have is our relationship with God. Our testimony of Jesus Christ and in his ability to save us from sin. It is that relationship through prayer and service which compels me to have charity and love and kindness for others. My focus has never been "what degree" I might obtain after this life or the Second Coming. To have charity. To live a life of service to others. I especially appreciate your comments on BYU Education Week. It seems you study and ponder and think about Scripture in a way very similar to my own. I also love those same types of classes and talks the best. Thank you for your videos and your ability to delicately and politely discuss what resonates, and what doesn't. We'll done!
Pastor Jeff, as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and after having been raised Catholic, I just wanted to thank you for your videos. I find you to be an honest, faithful follower of Jesus Christ. We may differ on our interpretation of scripture, which is why we’re admonished in James to “ask of God”, but we can certainly agree that Jesus is the Son of God and our advocate with the Father so if we’re living an honest, faithful life and willing to accept the Father’s will, as Jesus did, regardless of when the “gospel” is presented to us, we will be rewarded. All I know is I’d rather hang out with you in the next life than a lot of LDS people I’ve associated with. 😊
As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS I was taught that you have to reject the teachings in their purity with full understanding to be unable to receive the blessings. Most people (few) really understand what God means regarding these doctrines so I don't rule you out at all. If Christ taught you a more expanded doctrine and you had the Holy Ghost present and you rejected it then it might exclude you. But the eternities are long and as one apostle said there isn't one plan of happiness but an individual one for each of God's children. Each of us is given a slightly different path to truth so that we can grow to our full Christlike selves. In the end, we decide when to stop becoming like Him. I can't wait to meet you in His presence.
I attended the LSD Church with a friend for a year. I attend the ward’s Sunday Services (Sacrament meeting), Sunday school classes and priesthood meeting for a year. I found that the Mormon theology, doctrine and scripture all had the signs of a cult. The teaching of salvation by works drove one of my friends to suicide. His note “I can live up to the standards demanded of me”. 1) Another Jesus - 2 Cor. 11:4 & Mat. 24:24 & 1 Cor 1:17-18 & Col 1:20, (LDS Reject the deity of Jesus and the message of the cross, Jesus is created being, not God in the flesh as John 1:1 teaches, Jesus became a god) 2) Non-Biblical Source of Authority. Another Gospel Gal 1:6 Acts 17:11, 2Tim3:16 ( LDS has above the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) Book of Mormon does not teach LDS Doctrine, LDS Doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants. 3) Salvation by works. Rom 11:6, Gal 2:21, Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8 (LDS Reject salvation by grace, a free gift given by God, by God thru faith in Jesus Christ) Saved by grace after all we can do” is a phrase from the Book of Mormon verse 2 Nephi 25:23. This is LDS Doctrine grace plus works is not Grace. 4) Closed group with no fellowship (accountability) with other like minded groups. Eph 5:21 & 1 Cor 1:12 & Col 1:24. (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.) 5) Strong dominating leader (-ship) who has unquestionable authority over the group. 2 Cor 11:13-14 1Tim6:3 2 Peter 2:1 1 John 4:1, The J. Smith and the living prophet. 6) Group holds: new truths and revelation & all truths and keys. 2Cor 4:2, Reject Historical Christianity: Salvation by grace and forgives, one God, salvation at the Cross of Jesus. 7) New writings that proclaim and interpret these new truths. Rev 22:18 (Bible Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) 8) Only the group is able to act and speak in the name of God. 1 Cor1 4:36. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth. 8) Changing Theology-God Is 43:10-11, Malachi 3:6. Hebrews 6:17, Black were bad now OK, polygamy was to godhood for men, now bad and on and on. 9) Non-Biblical Teaching on the Nature of God Rom 1:22,23 Jude 1:4 ( humanize God, God was once an man and become God, God as body, Jesus became a god) 10) No one having joined can freely leave. (excommunication or trial is held.) 2 Corinthians 3:17. You can not just have your name remove, there will be a excommunication trial. You can not ask for letter of transfer to another churches, like Christian church do.) 11) False Prophecy Mat 24:11, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1 (Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri, much of Doctrine & Covenants Section 11, Doctrine & Covenants 114:1, and more) 12) Men can become gods. Those who live worthy to become gods D&C 132:20. This is the goal of the Temple work. 13) Simple question are answered with long evasive statements. Matt 5:37 14) The reputation of the group is more important that any one individual. (people are sacrificed) Romans 12:10 Romans 13:8 1 Peter 3:8 14) Double Talk - Statements contradict themselves Rom16:18 1Tim1:6 Jam1:8, Like: LDS believe in grace, but do not believe in Salvation by Grace.
I just want to say how much I enjoy your channel. You are so gracious, truthful and insightful with your observations of the LDS church and culture. Appreciate you doing much. Thank you for coming to Utah.
Regarding who goes where after this life, it is important to remember that we will receive all that we are willing to receive. There are broad categories / descriptions of who goes to the celestial/terrestrial/telestial kingdoms, but I believe there is a lot of nuance in trying to decide who had a full opportunity to receive the gospel. I believe someone may live their whole life around the church and never seek a spiritual witness of its truthfulness because of the poor example of members of the church. I believe there are people who are so entrenched in their own traditions, that it makes it difficult to receive that witness. I also believe that God raises people up to certain tasks in this world that they may not be able to do if they were members of the church. I have to say, you have probably done more good with this channel than I did in my two year mission. Eternity is a long time. God is merciful and just, and I believe his grace and patience is sufficient for all people that are honestly seeking him. Just don't be surprised when the Mormons keep coming to your door even after this life...
Agree with the part that God may require some in this life to never accept the gospel. There are millions of people in this world that are not ready and they too need examples and Pasteur to teach them. As long as we follow the spirit and do everything the Lord asks, he will withhold 0 blessings from us. That view is consistent with requiring certain covenants and ordinances because of the temple. The temple is the great equalizer.
Pastor Jeff - I just finished listening to your assessment of BYU Education week and wanted to share a thought. You mentioned that the instructor of the class explaining the 3 degrees of glory (not part of the church hierarchy) indicated that only those who have accepted the ordinances (performed by the proper authority as outlined in the New Testament) would be eligible for the celestial kingdom. I agree to a point with one caveat. As a lifelong member (pushing 70) who has been fully immersed in the doctrine, it’s my understanding from reading the scriptures (particularly D & C 76) that the dividing line which separates those in the celestial kingdom from lower kingdoms is that whenever a person receives the ordinances (mortal or post-mortal); the main criteria is that you have been VALIANT IN THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS (which ironically leaves out some Latter-day Saints). I am fully planning that my evangelical husband of 40 years will be with me! By that criteria - you are GOLDEN!
@@brushylake4606 Pauls epistle to the Hebrews indicates that priesthood authority was conveyed to Jesus Christ through a formal process and Christ conferred this power on chosen leaders in like manner. Hebrews 7:20-21/Heb 5: 5-6 Not without an oath he (Christ) was made priest. The Lord swear and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. The same epistle declares, - And no man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God as was Aaron (Heb 5:1,4) The pattern approved by God is the process used to call Aaron (and his sons) "Consecrate them that they may minister to me in the Priests' office (Ex 30:30) Paul points out "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee - thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (Heb 5:5-6). The same pattern was adhered to by Christs disciples following the Savior's ascension. Saul and Barnabas were ordained to preach the gospel by recognized leaders of the church (Acts 13:1-3). Paul was later ordained an apostle (1 Tim 2:7); by the laying on of hands, Timothy was set apart to be a bishop (1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6). Stephen received authority after the apostles laid their hands on him (Acts 6:1-6). Paul ordained elders in every church (Acts 14:34). In the Bible, laying on of hands is mentioned at least 25 times in conjunction with bestowing priesthood authority on others and performing priesthood ordinances. Throughout the Bible, examples abound of those severely chastened for attempting to perform priesthood functions without having authority from formal channels. King Saul was stripped of his kingdom for performing sacrifices without proper authority. (1 Sam 13:8-15). King Uzziah was stricken with leprosy for burning incense on the the altar - a priesthood function (2 Chron 26:16-20). The sons of Sceva were wounded by one having an unclean spirit while attempting to cast out this evil spirit without proper authority (Acts 19:13-16). Simon, a convert, tried to acquire power to confer the Holy Ghost without being called under the direction of the Lord's appointed leaders. For this offense, Simon was severely rebuked by Peter (Acts 8:18-23). Paul re-baptized certain disciples who had been baptized previously when questions arose about the authority of those who had performed the ordinance (Acts 19:1-6). Receiving baptism at the hands of unauthorized believers was not sufficient. In the Old Testament, Korah and 250 princes of the assembly accused Moses and Aaron of inappropriately restricting the exercise of priesthood authority (Num 16). Korah apparently believed that any person was entitled to the priesthood in commenting "Ye take too much upon you - see all the congregation are holy, every one of them. (Num 16:3). The Lord was uncompromising in destroying all those who sought to usurp priest authority in not submitting to properly being called and ordained. Paul indicates that the Savior made these provisions for perpetuating unity in the church - the vital method for retaining this unity was the formal structure of the church as Christ organized it: And he (Christ) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ; Til we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God....no more tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine.
@@terijohnston1460 Thank you, that's an excellent summary. I already knew some of that about priesthood authority. Now, the next question is how was that priesthood authority transmitted post New Testament? Also, what is the Biblical basis for LDS ordinances?
@@brushylake4606 This is long and will be in 2 parts - Sorry for the delay - this will be a “deep dive”. I want to start with some thoughts on the Bible, as part of your question was the Biblical basis for LDS ordinances (which I can provide specific scriptures for if you like). As I’m sure you’re probably aware, Latter-day Saints don’t rely exclusively on the Bible as the sole basis for their doctrines/ordinances, although most (if not all) can be found and have their genesis there. We are often accused of relegating the Bible to a second-class status far beneath the significance attached to other canons of scripture, but in both doctrine and practice, this is an incorrect perception. The prominent position of the Bible in LDS teachings however, is often viewed as insufficient by many in the Christian community, who consider the Bible the definitive and sole authoritative source of true doctrine. The position of “sola scriptum” is defended vigorously within evangelical Protestantism, even though not all teachings are based exclusively on the Bible, some accepting official pronouncements of the Roman church through the eighth century. Teachings from these non-biblical sources, related to such beliefs as the Trinity, original sin and ex nihilo creation are defended vigorously by many though they still assert the Bible to be the sole and definitive source of revelation. A sympathetic view of the history of those doctrines is necessary to sustain those doctrines. The position from which a Latter-day Saint reads the Bible is that God can still speak, that revelation is continuous, that God can still call prophets, and that it takes modern revelation to give true meaning to ancient revelation, just as it takes the New Testament to give the true meaning to the Old Testament. It's generally held among those in traditional Christian churches that their doctrines originated with the Bible. We do not believe this because the Bible did not exist until long after the creation of the church. If the church was organized by Christ or his apostles, then its organization came before any New Testament books were written. The book was created by the church, not the church by the book. A true testimony must embrace faith in the Bible, but it cannot rest on the Bible. For it to be otherwise would be unbiblical, for the faithful Saints of whom we read in the Bible had no Bible. What they had was a faith founded on personal revelation, which was in harmony with and sustained by whatever scriptural texts were available to them, but it was not founded on them. Many Christians think the Bible is a closed canon of scripture. Latter-day Saints do not. The Bible makes no such claims for itself. The passage often quoted to support that position is found near the end of the book of Revelation: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life (Rev 22:18-19). There are several problems with this interpretation. First, the writer of Deuteronomy issues a similar warning in two separate passages (Deut 4:2 & Deut 12:32) Also the writer of Proverbs (Prov 30:6). Applying that same logic, the entire New Testament would constitute unauthorized additions to Gods word. Second, most Biblical scholars agree that the Book of Revelation was not the last book to be written. The use of John’s phrase prohibiting additions seems to refer specifically to the phrase “The words of the book of this prophecy”(The Book of Revelation). Third, the Bible was not written as a book, but is a collection of writings, which were in circulation singly or in combination with others for centuries. The Bible as we know and use it in the Christian world today is one of the blessings of the age of printing. Complete Bibles were unknown before Gutenberg. To this day, Christians disagree on which books are the word of God. Catholics have added (or have Protestants deleted?) a large collection of books found in the ancient Greek manuscripts of the early Christian church. The idea that the Holy Spirit can speak through extant scripture is beyond question. The idea that the Holy Spirit is confined to that medium for its expression is unscriptural. We believe that to declare the heavens sealed and the canon closed is to lose at the same time the very power by which the scriptures must be understood. It is fundamental to the faith of Latter-day Saints that to believe in the Bible is to believe in the necessity of continuous revelation. For us, the Bible is marvelous evidence that God can and does speak, and that he will also speak to those of this day if they choose to listen.
@brushylake4606 Moving on to post New Testament authority, Latter-day Saints believe that Christ organized His Church, giving authority to those he chose to lead it. The New Testament gives every indication that God intended apostles and prophets to be perpetuated (although he knew they wouldn’t be). The first official act of the eleven apostles recorded in the Bible was to call Matthias to complete the quorum of twelve apostles following the demise of Judas. (Acts 1:13-26) The scriptures provide evidence of additional apostles, including James, the half-brother of Jesus (Gal 1:19) and Paul (Acts 14:14). Paul testified that he was “ordained a preacher, and apostle”. (1 Tim 2:7; 2 Tim 1:11). The Bible does not support the assertion that the organization that Christ set up was intended to pass out of existence. Stephen, Timothy and others were ordained to offices in the priesthood (Acts 6:5-6; 1 Time 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6; Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5). The work and ministry of Christ’s church moved forward with power and extended its geographic reach throughout much of present-day southern Europe and western Asia. As the church grew in numbers and public awareness, persecution intensified on many fronts (Acts 7:59; 14:1-6; 19). In 70 AD, Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the center of the church, and leveled the temple. One by one, the apostles died off, or more often were killed. (Acts 12:2). Congregations of saints in Asia and elsewhere fell under general condemnation (Rev chapters 2 & 3). Around the end of the first century, the last writings of what is now the New Testament were completed, and God’s revelation to man ceased. On these general outlines of church history, most Christian denominations agree. At this point in the history of Christianity, three divergent positions emerge to explain subsequent events. Roman Catholics maintain the formal church of Christ continued in unbroken papal succession from Peter to the present-day Pope. Protestants contend the Christian church remained on earth and true believers in Christ have continued in force since the church was first organized. According to many Protestant denominations, they recognize the councils of the Catholic Church as doctrinally correct through the eighth century AD, and after that time, the Catholic Church fell into error and departed from the teachings of the Bible. Interestingly, I once attended a Baptist church with my husband, where the pastor had us all rise and repeat after him the Nicene Creed. Latter-day Saints teach that the church organized by Christ fell into general apostacy and eventually ceased to function as his representative body, after the death of the apostles. This event was foretold by prophets and apostles of the Bible. According to Latter-day Saints, the Bible prophesies that God will stretch forth his hand in the last days, restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ in its purity, as it was in the days of the Savior (Acts 3:19-21; Eph 1:10). At issue on the first point of difference is whether the Bible foretells a falling away, or general apostacy of the church organized by Christ to be followed by a restoration (not merely a reformation) of his church in the last days. Numerous passages of scripture prophesy of these events to take place before the Savior’s second coming. The prophet Amos prophesied of a time when the word of the Lord would be absent from the earth, likening it to a famine. (Amos 8:11-13). Likewise, the apostle Paul wrote to the saints of Thessalonia concerning a general falling away, or apostacy of the church before the second coming of the Lord. “Now we beseech you, brethren…that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first”. (2 Thes 2:1-3; 5) Paul’s understanding of an approaching apostacy was primarily the product of inspiration, but also personal observation. The early church was experiencing significant problems maintaining correct doctrine and adhering to approved practices. At times, he seemed amazed by how rapidly the apostacy of the church was advancing despite the energetic efforts of inspired leaders. “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ”. (Gal 6-7) Paul confided to local leaders in Ephesus that apostacy and dissension would soon enter into their congregation, some of it at the hands of local leaders: “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them (Acts 20:28-30) The church in Ephesus was not the exception, but a general pattern among the congregations of believers in Paul’s day. His first letter to the Corinthians was written in response to division and dissention among the saints in that location. (1 Cor 1:10-13; 3:3-4; 15:12). Also, the saints in Asia appear to have rejected Paul, the Lord’s anointed. To Timothy, his dear friend in the gospel, Paul writes, “This though knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me (2 Tim 1:15). Paul’s rejection foreshadowed a creeping apostacy among the seven churches in Asia as note by John the Revelator. Ephesus and Sardis were called to repentance (Rev 2:5, 3:3). The works of Satan were evidenced at Smyrna, Pergamos and Philadelphia (Rev 2:9; 3:9; 13-14). False teachers spreading seductive doctrines were leading many astray in Thyatira (Rev. 2:20-22). The church of the Laodiceans received the rebuke “…..So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth (Rev 3:15-16) Paul warned that these conditions and worse would envelop the church before the second coming of Christ (2 Tim 3:1,2,5,7) (2 Tim 4:3-4).
I think you will have the opportunity to go to the C. kingdom! “It ain’t over til it’s over.” You aren’t finished yet, Pastor Jeff. I think us “saints” are in for some mighty big surprises, both good and some not so good. My personal opinion is your day will come.
Thanks for being super open to all this. It is fun you are having these experiences. Every time I watch your videos I am struck by phrases such as “This didn’t resonate with my” “It was hard for me to accept” “Evangelicals believe this interpretation “ etc. A strong tenant that Latter Day Saints constantly preach is the need to have God tell us what is correct or not. My ways are not yours and my thoughts are not your thoughts. Ask in faith and the truth will be made known. While educational week certainly has many historical accounts and speculations and can certainly begin to deviate into opinion at the core it doesn’t really matter what we believe or think. What is the actual truth? Faithful prayer while be willing to accept whatever God’s answer has to be the principle way we come to know if a truth is real or not. So the real question is what God confirmed to you as true. Looking forward to hearing that journey.
There are many mainstream Christianity, who believe we worship Joseph Smith. There are students at BYU who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which I believe the professor was directing the information to. Have a great day.
I think an important thing for Latter-Day Saints to remember when looking at any theological discussion with a Christian of a different faith is: we are different and supposed to be. We love common ground, and community with others who share many similar values, particularly in a world that is increasingly turning from a belief in any God other than self, but, we are not just another sect. We are different and meant to be. This is rooted in that we believe God still reveals. This is why the critique that our beliefs are not "biblical" doesn't exactly land. We want to hold to what is true, of course, but we are gratefully the recipient of so much more He has revealed that had provided us with clarity. We also know He will reveal more to help us clarify further as we grow closer to Him. Latter-Day Saints should be so grateful to not always be in step with "mainstream Christianity".
Thank you for your honesty and sincerity and vulnerability. You often address questions I have about my own religious beliefs and it helps me strengthen my faith. I sincerely appreciate all you do! Thank you for being so respectful and kind. Thank you being brave to respectfully wrestle with difficult doctrine.
Just a comment about who gets the opportunity for the Celestial Kingdom and who does not. Temple proxy work can be performed for anyone, even if they rejected the LDS Church when alive. Pres Nelson has expressed a personal view that he is unsure what constitutes a valid opportunity to accept in this life and is glad it is Christ and not him (Pres Nelson) who will make that determination.
I think that God is an inclusivist, and I have heard temple sealers say that most will accept the ordinances done on their behalf. I believe that God has cleverly worked out a system in which nearly everyone is saved and exalted. He and his son did the hard part in order to bring us all home.
@@BobSmith-lb9nc That's a lovely thought but how do you interpret Jesus saying wide is the gate to destruction and many go there in, but narrow is the way to eternal live and few there be that find it?
Nice thought but God already sent a third of his children to outer darkness, I wont be surprised if another 3rd goes terrestrial. But something may be revealed we dont know about
@@stephtimms1776 Certainly true of folks in this life. Luckily for us, God cleverly arranged for his son to pay the price, and then to allow everyone to opt in after death by proxy. God loves all his children, and provided a brilliant Plan of Salvation.
I'm always grateful to remember that while its fun to talk about the distinction between the two higher kingdoms of glory and try and draw a line between who will and wont go where, in the end the Father will be the final say and will know exactly where we all landed. Perfect judgement means peace of mind for me and everyone else.
I remember one of my protestant friends told me one day that a coworker we have that is a wonderful person and does a lot of good and serves others feeds the poor he lives a Christlike life but yet she said to me it’s too bad he’s got a burn in hell because he has an accepted Jesus. That just made me realize that a loving heavenly father would not let a Christ like individual just burn in hell because he had not accepted Jesus he would have another chance through baptisms for TheDead or ordinances or he could go to may be a kingdom that is not bad but just not in the presence of the Lord. That makes so much more sense to me than burning people at Hell that are wonderfully good people.
It isn't that a just and loving God would "let" a Christ like individual burn in hell. It is that by the very nature of God and Heaven, without acceptance of the atoning death of Christ and propitiation of our sins, we aren't able to be in Heaven. The Bible is quite clear. One must accept Christ's sacrifice in one's stead to be able to go to Heaven.
@@brushylake4606 so what about a person who was never taught the gospel say from a native tribe in the deep jungle and when they die are they gonna have another chance to accept Christ in the next life or are they just doomed forever?
@@jamesbroughton7870 First and most importantly, that isn't my role, to judge that native. I trust God that His judgements are fair and He has a way to determine the heart of those who have never been exposed to the gospel. Having said that, I reiterate my statement that God doesn't put us in Hell. Our own recalcitrant hearts are what puts us in Hell. Our nature bends towards sin. Romans 3:10 "There is no one righteous, not even one;" Romans 3:23 "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." But God has given all of us a way out. Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." What about those who have not heard the gospels? Romans 10:14 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" So God has provided for those who have never heard. How? I don't know, that's for Him. So, there are no "good" people. We are all condemned by our own hearts and actions. Unless you have NEVER sinned, you fall short of the glory of God. All have sinned and that is why God provided us a sinless, perfect sacrifice in whose death and resurrection we can find propitiation. I have a friend who is Muslim. I love him and I gently tell him of Christ. At some point, either he is intrigued and searches or closes his heart. All I can do is what God commanded me, to tell him. Does he get a "last chance"? I don't know. I trust God. So, I can't answer your question. I do know that no one in the West really has an excuse.
Christ himself would say that the Church restored by Him IS the mainstream Church. However the bulk or mainstream of society will not believe it. He commanded its restoration at the direction of our Heavenly Father. Nothing has “crept in”. It is all very much carefully calculated for our exaltation. Ultimately anyone who encounters the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must make a choice. Once the gospel is presented to any human he can no longer remain on neutral ground. This is the Church of Jesus Christ and as we raised our arms to the square in the premortal world and covenanted to follow Christ into the Church and kingdom of God if we found it, we had better take it very seriously. It is an urgent matter that we do.
Dear Jeff, Thank you for doing what you do. I love you. I wish we were neighbors. I am a non-trinitarian, restorationist Christian, with much in common with my Evangelical Christian friends, we have a lot to share as we follow our Savior Jesus Christ.
Gee, an evangelical pastor disagrees with us! Imagine that!I appreciate the pastor’s good will and respectful attitude. But I can’t really get too interested in what an evangelical thinks of our doctrine and beliefs. The Restoration began with the statement by the Savior that there had been a vast apostasy. Why would I care to measure the Church and Restoration by a false standard? He’s a nice guy but his opinion doesn’t really matter to me.
It's okay not to be interested, but I absolutely love what he's doing. LDS leadership partners with leaders of other faiths all the time to foster togetherness and understanding. I absolutely love it. The time will come when all God-fearing people will need to stand united against the darts and flaming arrows of the adversary. Be it Christian, Muslim or Jew, we shall stand united as the few.
Your refinement of this channel is beautiful, the love and respect for and between Christians coming from different directions is enriching to watch. We all believe Christ will be returning soon. And we can settle the differences by asking Him directly. I believe you're purified enough to be there, I hope I am too. Should be soon! Thanks brother !
On the terrestrial kingdom verdict, while he is correct generally, we are not the judge. That said, the terrestrial kingdom is what evangelicals believe as heaven. I would imagine that is where most of them will be the most comfortable. Its the law that they choose to live. Dallin Oaks has given talks on this recently if you want to know more.
As an evangelical I would disagree with you. We believe we will live in the eternal presence of the triune God so that would be the lds celestial kingdom.
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 we believe that the terrestrial kingdom is a place within the presence of Jesus so if we are correct, a person who rejected the fulness would still live eternally with jesus but not the father. This is by no means a judgement of any other Christian who doesn't now accept our faith. It's only up to jesus where everyone goes. We just have our ideas what heaven will look like outlined more clearly. These of course are just a mortal explanation of eternal reality
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 howdy, I certainly don't want to tell an evangelical what they believe. When they do that to me, they are almost always wrong. Even Jeff here still messes it up, and he is pretty good. My understanding is that their belief was that they are more like angels in heaven, and earthly family ties (i.e. marriage) do not fully remain. That would be similar to the terrestrial kingdom (hence my comment). We have different beliefs on the trinity, but we do believe that people in the terrestrial kingdom will receive the presence of the son, but not the fulness of the father. All of that said, I would caution any of us to not assume anything. God is good. He loves us, and he wants to give us great gifts. Any time Jesus started a story with..."the kingdom of heaven is like," it was followed by something that sounded full of grace.
In my understanding the difference between evangelical and LDS legalism is that the evangelical church does not require participation in various practices such as tithing, baptism, underclothing and marriage in order to have the assurance of living forever in God's presence. Certain denominations may have their own legalisms but because we believe Jesus paid our sin debt completely the behaviors don't involve assurance of salvation, such as devotions every morning, dressing a certain way, tithing, baptism by immersion, etc. From my LDS friends I would say they feel more pressure to conform and accept every request made of them rather than consider if it's really the holy Spirit asking or the church leadership, which are not the same thing in a healthy evangelical church.
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 hi Janet, there is a lot to unpack there. More than can be done in a comments section. I would respectfully say that your understanding is very incomplete. Salvation is not the same as exaltation. Jeff has a lot of videos where he gets close to explaining this, but he still gets our view of faith/works wrong for salvation. Also, to fully understand what we believe on this, you would need to know how we view Temple work and the work that is done in the millennium. Sorry that I kept this high level. How about this: we beleive (i) that the law of tithing is a commandment, (ii) we need to keep the commandments, and (iii) we are not saved by obeying the law of tithing.
First, I love the conversations. Now I ask this question based on the claim a restoration had to take place. Since there are so many sects in Christianity why us there protestantism exists? Why are we, who claim to be Christian, not Catholic? or Lutheran, or Calvinist, or Baptist, Methodist, etc. Why are those all accepted except for a group that says, Christianity is so fragmented that a restoration has ti happen to get us back to what Christ taught? This is why I an a member, with no animosity, it's all about learning.
Thans for having this cannel, I was baptized when I was young and followed the church until my mom passed away and then I dropped out of it. I have started going again but a little lost but your channel helps me understand a little bit even though you talk about it in LDS and evangelical
I am so sorry for your loss. ⚘️ Jesus Christ said, "Follow me." Jesus is the good Shepherd. Jesus will never let you down. John 10:27-29 God bless you.
I love your show. I’m so happy that you’re trying to bridge the gap. I want to say that I am a convert to the LDS church. I do have my great grandparents that were ministers and they did travel to the south so I know a lot about the Bible and I grew up with the Bible. I also come from a big quaker family that settled to Shenandoah Valley. When I was 16 years old, I actually joined the church. But I can also share one more other thing when I was about five or six years old I had a dream where I would go to school and live where the mountains were not covered with trees because I lived in Virginia and, we had the Appalachian mountains and the Rockies of course are a lot different but I saw them in my dream and I saw that there was a Y on the mountain. I started a little club so all of my friends on Facebook. Remember this. Much later, when I was 12 years old, MU Dad traveled to California and found out there was actually a place in Utah that had a Y on the mountain. He came home and gave me a picture of the University with that Y on the mountain, so that is true. But another thing that I wanted to share with you that is different from what we were taught before about the plan of salvation. I know that you guys know about a pre-existence, and there was a war in heaven. At least I was taught about this when I used to be southern Baptist and I also went to the Methodist Church with my other grandma. We are taught that there came a time when we were in Heaven with Father and had progressed that we saw our father in heaven and he had a temple. A body was his temple, and we did not have this temple, father also knew that in order for us to become like him we had to learn and understand and comprehend good from evil. We can’t read about it in books and comprehend but we had to experience it. Pass through it. And the only way that we were going to be able to do that is that we are sent here And this is Satan‘s world. He is the god of this world. A lot of people think the earth and all things that are tangible is Satans. It is not. For it was sent with us as a gift of love. While we are here we were even given weaknesses because Satan wouldn’t have a chance against us if we came as is. So we followed our Saviors plan and we knew that through these weaknesses, we would come to understand the fall of Adam and Eve or the greater weakness and through this we comprehend good and evil so that one day we may stand with our father in heaven, and say that we no longer will look upon any sin with the least degree of allowance. For all sin, no matter how great or small leads to destruction. Father, all knowing has seen all the way into the future unto the very end of our world. So he knew that when he sent Adam and Eve, they were going to make a choice and at some point they were going to fall and this plan was set up in the pre existence. We knew that our savior would pay for the price. So we knew in order to become like our father. This is something that had to be done. Of course we are told that this would happen. That’s why the prophets told us all throughout the Old Testament and that’s why it was prophesied in the Old Testament. Another thing that we believe in that progression never ends. The father will always stand, and with our savior will always stand with open arms and they do not deny us. It is us that will deny them. We should’ve learned this as earthly parents. We have children that we want to help and no matter how hard we stand there with open arms sometimes they think they know better than we, and they will refuse our help. In coming here, we are learning to be like our father in heaven. Would we want to stop their progression? Absolutely not. Therefore, we cannot be greater than father. We are learning to pass through evil, and to understand it, comprehend it to forsake it and to overcome it, so the atonement of Christ, which allows us to return back to our father in heaven. In the Scriptures, the apostle Paul is talking about baptisms for the dead. How do you guys explain that in your religion? Also, I heard you say that you no longer believe in temples. I can testify that in the pre-existence there were Temples in Heaven and also in revelations we see several times John talking about the last days and that several times he mentions about the temples in heaven. How do you explain the temples in heaven that are mentioned for the last days in Revelations? I don’t think a lot of members of the LDS church know this, but it is through the temples in heaven that we send from our father‘s prescence to earth, and in the last days, it is through the temples of heaven that we are able to return to our father in heaven. Not everyone upon the earth will have the opportunity to have the fullness of the gospel or to learn about Jesus Christ so there has to be a way. If you go back and look at some of the other ancient writings, the Dead sea scrolls and other writings, you will see that they mention the baptisms for the dead for these were ordinances that they were practicing back then. It is mentioned in the Bible as well. 1 Peter 4:6 mentions about them teaching to those that are dead. Why? How did that happen? And why teach them if they can no longer get baptized? Also 1 Corinthians 15:29 I would suggest to read from the King James version of the Bible. I know there’s a lot of newer Bibles out there that have translated even further which we don’t believe in using them because we believe that it again takes away precious truths. We know that The king James himself had many of the books and words that were already taken away. And father, knowing that this is going to happen and will not interfere with our free agency don’t you think that he would’ve established a good back up plan? Of course he did. And that’s why he had another of his children right also but this time the book was buried into the Earth so it may be kept pure. That no man by the power of Satan would take away its precious truce to try to confuse men we believe in the Bible as far as it’s translated correctly. But we also believe in the book of Mormon that is the second witness to the Bible. Ezekiel 37 matches two sticks which are two books that will testify God. Have you figured out what those two books are. What is the stick of Judah, which is written by the Jews the other other is the stick of Ephraim or Joseph. Joseph Smith Junior is a descendent of Joseph from the house of Ephraim. But he did not write this book and it was impossible and it’s been proven take time and just pray and ask father. Is the book of Mormon the word of God also. I have always wondered if you have prayed and ask, father and heaven with real sincerity as James 15 teaches us to do in the Bible, if the book of Mormon is also a second testament, and also the word of God if it was sealed, and it, Joseph Smith was a prophet? If you haven’t, I really hope and my prayers are that you will.
You seem like a confused person, who rambles through both LDS and Orthodox Biblical Christian doctrine and meld them together, when they are incompatible. For instance you talk about Sin. In LDS doctrine there is no such thing as Original Sin. That is why even people that are unrepentant sinners and homosexuals are allowed entry into the telestial kingdom, according to LDS doctrine. That is a direct contradiction to the word of God, in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 6:9&10.
This is not true. Followers of Jesus Christ can and will be in the Celestial Kingdom, but without temple ordinances and covenants, exhalation is not possible.
I really appreciate the respect and open mindedness you grant The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Thank you!! I think this series is inspired. I also believe the baptism of Christ was a beautiful example of the need for EVERY one of God’s children to perform the ordinances necessary to return to the presence of God. Christ didn’t have just anyone baptize him, He went to John the Baptist because he had been given authority from God to baptize people into the church of Christ at that time. I agree wholeheartedly that we need do nothing to receive God’s love. He bestows it in abundance regardless of our behavior and I am infinitely grateful for that. However He is both merciful and just which means there must be some laws to obey or there would be no need for justice and those laws must also be attached to consequences or they would have no worth.
I’m surprised how many commenters think the instructor was condemning Jeff personally to the Terrestrial Kingdom. It was obviously an academic hypothetical application based on what is taught in section 76.
I am so grateful to see people starting to research and share their learnings about our church without bias. I've seen a lot of videos where people say they researched the church or have left the church and share blatant misinformation. It's so refreshing to see you sharing your findings honestly.
You should have conversation with Tyler Griffen on the plan of redemption. He has given a much better view of the plan with the focus on Christ's important role of redeeming us from physical and spiritual death.
From an LDS thankyou for your insights. I really enjoy what you have say and respect the differences. I once had a friend with who was of a different faith and she said that she could never be LDS because was it too hard! We are still great friends but I know what she means. LDS believe in coming to Christ through covenants as was done in the Bible and because we believe that our church is the restored gospel means we have the same organisation. Prophet, apostles etc which then means we believe in modern revelation. I know other faiths don't believe in a living prophet but my common sense and experience as a parent tells me that just as I would not leave my child without guidance at the worst time of their lives, neither will God in these tumultuous days before he comes again. I think just on that point I would have joined the LDS church if were not a member! This is a very organised church but remember that God created this beautiful world for us to inhabit. He did it in an organised fashion. Not haphazard. There was a plan, of that I'm sure. Stands to reason that his gospel is also organised and planned too.
The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest, and King. Hebrews 1 In the Bible, God makes covenants with people. In the New Testament, the New Covenant, God promises to freely forgive our sins, freely save us, and grant us the gift 🎁 of eternal life. Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death, but the gift 🎁 of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. No need to earn forgiveness. I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Even exaltation is free. Matthew 23:12 He that humbles himself shall be exalted.
I attended the LSD Church with a friend for a year. I attend the ward’s Sunday Services (Sacrament meeting), Sunday school classes and priesthood meeting for a year. I found that the Mormon theology, doctrine and scripture all had the signs of a cult. The teaching of salvation by works drove one of my friends to suicide. His note “I can live up to the standards demanded of me”. 1) Another Jesus - 2 Cor. 11:4 & Mat. 24:24 & 1 Cor 1:17-18 & Col 1:20, (LDS Reject the deity of Jesus and the message of the cross, Jesus is created being, not God in the flesh as John 1:1 teaches, Jesus became a god) 2) Non-Biblical Source of Authority. Another Gospel Gal 1:6 Acts 17:11, 2Tim3:16 ( LDS has above the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) Book of Mormon does not teach LDS Doctrine, LDS Doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants. 3) Salvation by works. Rom 11:6, Gal 2:21, Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8 (LDS Reject salvation by grace, a free gift given by God, by God thru faith in Jesus Christ) Saved by grace after all we can do” is a phrase from the Book of Mormon verse 2 Nephi 25:23. This is LDS Doctrine grace plus works is not Grace. 4) Closed group with no fellowship (accountability) with other like minded groups. Eph 5:21 & 1 Cor 1:12 & Col 1:24. (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.) 5) Strong dominating leader (-ship) who has unquestionable authority over the group. 2 Cor 11:13-14 1Tim6:3 2 Peter 2:1 1 John 4:1, The J. Smith and the living prophet. 6) Group holds: new truths and revelation & all truths and keys. 2Cor 4:2, Reject Historical Christianity: Salvation by grace and forgives, one God, salvation at the Cross of Jesus. 7) New writings that proclaim and interpret these new truths. Rev 22:18 (Bible Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) 8) Only the group is able to act and speak in the name of God. 1 Cor1 4:36. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth. 8) Changing Theology-God Is 43:10-11, Malachi 3:6. Hebrews 6:17, Black were bad now OK, polygamy was to godhood for men, now bad and on and on. 9) Non-Biblical Teaching on the Nature of God Rom 1:22,23 Jude 1:4 ( humanize God, God was once an man and become God, God as body, Jesus became a god) 10) No one having joined can freely leave. (excommunication or trial is held.) 2 Corinthians 3:17. You can not just have your name remove, there will be a excommunication trial. You can not ask for letter of transfer to another churches, like Christian church do.) 11) False Prophecy Mat 24:11, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1 (Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri, much of Doctrine & Covenants Section 11, Doctrine & Covenants 114:1, and more) 12) Men can become gods. Those who live worthy to become gods D&C 132:20. This is the goal of the Temple work. 13) Simple question are answered with long evasive statements. Matt 5:37 14) The reputation of the group is more important that any one individual. (people are sacrificed) Romans 12:10 Romans 13:8 1 Peter 3:8 14) Double Talk - Statements contradict themselves Rom16:18 1Tim1:6 Jam1:8, Like: LDS believe in grace, but do not believe in Salvation by Grace.
I love education week. I love that you went to it. I have Evangelical friends that I learn from all the time. I hope we can learn from each other. God is good and he definitely loves all who love him and he will not deny any blessing that you desire to have as long as you serve him and seek for those blessings. Some come early and other blessings come late but they do come as we seek the goodness of God in our lives and obey him. This I believe with all my heart as I have come to know the goodness of God in my life.
When I was an active LDS member, I remember feeling so much pressure to do everything required for celestial glory. It caused me a lot of anxiety and stress. I was converted to the rules, structure, culture, and community. After leaving and becoming a born again Christian, it was transformative to have a new relationship with my Savior. The simplicity of the gospel in the New Testament has brought me so much peace and joy. We attend church, Bible study, and activities with our non-denominational church because we love the Lord- not because it feels like a requirement. I know not all LDS members feel like I did when I was active member- and I know many have a very strong faith in Christ. But this was my experience. I have found Pastor Jeff’s exploration of the LDS faith very relatable and helpful on my faith journey!
So sad that you felt that way, but you are in an organization that has good lessons and maybe does some charity work and that is about it. You are giving up the whole purpose of God, which is for his children to have the same kind of life he has - exaltation and the continuation of lives. You are giving up way to much for a feel good church.
@@eileenpierce1023"Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Matthew 12:23 He that humbles himself shall be exalted. Luke 14:11 He that humbles himself shall be exalted.
I am so sad that you were taught within your LDS circle that there are things you "need to do". In my LDS experience, there are no requirements for Celestial Glory, for the Grace of Jesus paid for that. The only requirement, if you call it that, is to be appreciative of Gods gift by loving God and loving People the best we can.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Those scriptures are very good and true, but being born again means accepting baptism. I assume you are born again Christian. The LDS Church has a much broader view of heaven than born again Christian’s. We believe that we have the potential to be like God and Christ and be joint heirs with Christ. Being joint heirs means we will have the same type of life that God has, meaning we can become like God, and have all that he has.
@@eileenpierce1023 I feel that I have gained so much more now. My life no longer revolves around a church/organization- that is just an added bonus to worship with fellow believers. My life now is about my relationship with Jesus Christ. Prayer, study, loving others, and keeping God’s commandments are natural because I have true conversion through Jesus Christ. The New Testament says very little about exaltation- but rather salvation through Jesus Christ. It is no work of our own. I do understand what you are saying regarding exaltation-having been LDS, and I respect that. But that is not a belief I no longer hold.
As an exmo with 1 foot back into the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, I have really enjoyed watching your program Jeff, and I resonate with pretty much everything you’re saying, keep up the good work, and God bless us all! ❤️🙏
Christ restored his church. Joseph Smith was chosen to represent the Savior, just like Moses. The great I Am freed the children of Isreal and led them to the land given to Abraham by God; similarly Christ restored his church, Joseph Smith played an important role, but it was all completed under the direct direction and control of the Savior, Jesus the Christ.
I am with others on the idea that we will all recieve what we are capable of understanding. You have proven yourself able to learn, and I have no problem thining that you will recieve what you don't currently fully understand.
Degrees of glory are for our benefit. Would a gangster be comfortable surrounded by saints? Would a saint be comfortable around robbers and r*ists.? No. The degrees of glory ensure people can and will receive the maximum degree of glory, light, and truth, that they can handle and be comfortable with. We will be surrounded by people like us. With similar interests and morals.
@@jlewis8145 we are not robots now, nor will we be there… we have agency now and will then, we just won’t have Satans influence like we do now on earth
@@jlewis8145 ok. But people’s comfort level to light and glory will be different. At least for lds theology. We don’t believe in hell. At least not in the classical sense
@@germanmarine6582 Jesus warned of hell more than anyone else. Luke 16- The rich man was already in conscious torment. Revelation 21:8 All liars will have their part in the lake which burns with fire. Jesus Christ doesn't follow the teachings of the LDS church.
This is really awesome Jeff. I was just thinking how I would feel going to a protestant education week and the very thought gave me anxiety. I would feel like a fish out of water! I doubt I would be brave enough to go. And yet you did! That's really special that you have that courage and determination to learn.
My understanding of the criteria to be exalted to celestial glory is that you A) have all saving ordinances preformed, either by proxy or in the flesh, and B) are diligent in the testimony of Jesus Christ, even until the end. With that in mind, I see no reason you or many other mainstream Christians couldn't become exalted. Of course, we actually don't know who will and who won't recieve celestial glory, and it's not any of our places to judge others in that way. We simply will have to wait and see in many cases, but I know that God will take us as far as he can.
I just adore you and your openness to learning and sharing all that you can about our faith, including all the things that resonate with you and what doesn't yet. I find it all very helpful as I interact with others of different faiths as well. I hope you get asked to speak at Education Week too :)
I for one would love to see some long form videos where you dive deeper into your experiences and thoughts as you explore the teachings and doctrines of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I know a lot of people, including myself, do a lot of traveling and commuting and would love to listen to these long format videos. Just a thought.
RE: Who enters the Celestial Kingdom? Great video. In LDS doctrine, it's God that decides whether someone is worthy to receive this degree of heaven, as it is in other Christian faiths, and many other religions. 1) it's not up to someone, or some rule, to decide whether you had an "opportunity", and whether you are worthy. These are descriptions from God's perspective, no person can determine where someone will end up, because each of our experiences are unique. 2) by their own admission many latter-day saints will not meet these standards, and many non-latter day saints will meet God's standards. 3) The ordinances in the temple (like baptisms), are because there is something specific to having the combination of a physical and spiritual body, that means these ordinances can't be done in the next life if someone accepts God's plan later. This is a sort of fairness backup. So from an LDS perspective they're just making it possible, that if someone discovers in the next life what God wanted them to know, that they have a means to achieve eternal salvation like anyone else. It's never exclusive to Mormons/Members of the Church of Jesus Christ. Because as mentioned, many LDS church members will not qualify, and many good people who are not members will qualify. From an LDS perspective, the ordinances are just there because there are some things that can't be done/learned/experienced without a physical body, and they're also important for the salvation of the person doing the ordinance (e.g., it's one way to do something for someone else who has passed away, and in that sense it's kind of a beautiful practice. It's not just about the recipient of the ordinance, who would presumably receive it, at least in part, after they died.) RE: What is Salvation from an LDS perspective, and what are these "Degrees of Glory" or "Degrees of Heaven"? In LDS doctrine, the descriptions of even the Telestial Kingdom are in line with, or basically descriptions of "Heaven" from other faiths (i.e., unimaginably wonderful, peaceful, etc.) So in this sense, even in LDS doctrine, Christ and God have 'saved' everyone through grace. Everyone who made it to this existence gets a resurrected body eventually. Everyone makes it to heaven (telestial, terrestrial, celestial), the only exception being those who have received God's gospel in its 'fullness' and still choose to go against it. These are people who have been given incredible truths, fully know it's the truth, and decide to go against it and willfully follow Satan. In other words, almost no one in all of existence. Even "thieves and murderers" can make it to heaven through God's and Christ's grace.
Although their view is a little different, the Orthodox have a very similar concept of salvation as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They call it theosis and it is not just part of salvation, but the point of it.
2nd witness - the Orthodox Church indeed teaches a doctrine of divinization that is similar, but not identical to LDS doctrine. Google theosis +Greek +Orthodox. There are also many quotes from the First Century church Fathers stating that Christ was god who became man so that we can become gods.
My wife and I agree that the telestrial kingdom is better suited to us and our family as most will be there. We really have decided not to strive for a higher kingdom or a higher degree of glory within the celestial kingdom as we would be separated from the vast majority of our family and friends. We don’t judge, it’s whatever you choose.
As a Christian, I'm curious, so does the type of relationship you have with God factor in to your decision? Or isn't that relationship even affected by what kingdom you're in, and how can the celestial kingdom be the best if you feel like you are missing out on something?
@@valeried7210 no. We just read the definitions of the three kingdoms in D and C and chose the one that reflects the most inclusive kingdom for our family and friends which are mostly not LDS or not religious but wonderful people. It seems to be the most inclusive kingdom for us.
@@Zeett09doesn't it strike you as odd that you believe you can judge where you'll be in the afterlife based on your own desires? Rather than God deciding? (I guess I don't know what members believe about Jesus being the judge at his second coming )
@@valeried7210 LDS believe you choose what Kingdom based on choices made either on earth now or upon death in the spirit world. In our case the telestial is the best choice for my family which is mostly not religious.
On the question of celestial or terrestrial glory, the answer is found in Doctrine and Covenants 88:32. Pastor Jeff will "enjoy that which [he] is willing to receive..." . Only he can decide that, and Jesus, knowing his heart and soul, will be a perfect judge.
Pastor Jeff! It was cool meeting you in person - you probably don’t remember me but me and my buddies took a pic with you after Bro Francom’s lecture one day!
Enjoyed the discussion. I think we are striving to have God's 'trust' rather than just be loved.- God loves all his children. Discipleship doesn't automatically come from acknowledging Christ or accessing his Grace, it requires something of us. Fundamentally, 'Mormonism'' is a developmental theology with high view of human potential.
The way someone explained it to me once, is that the Latter-day Saint view of the Terrestrial kingdom, is very similar to the evangelical view of Heaven. Basically, the Latter-day saints are saying that the evangelical view of heaven, and how to get there, is correct but that there is something more. The more being the celestial kingdom and exaltation.
I’ve been reflecting on this post for several days, and I want to express my appreciation for the thoughtful and balanced way you present these videos. I can certainly understand why some of what you encountered at Education Week might have been unsettling for you. While I can’t say that everything taught at Education Week is absolute truth, I do believe that we are all human and that no one fully understands “the meaning of all things” (1 Nephi 11:17)-not even prophets. We are all continually learning. I have faith in God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. I believe the Book of Mormon is a true companion to the Bible, guiding us closer to the Savior. I trust that God is just, and that by living in harmony with the Spirit and following its promptings, we will be blessed. I see you as an amazing human being, and I believe that your efforts are meaningful. I feel incredibly blessed to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I genuinely believe that you will also be blessed for the good you are doing in the world.
Pastor Jeff, Thank you for checking out BYU Education Week and sharing your thoughts. Fortunately, we will each be judged by a kind and loving Heavenly Father who will consider the intentions of our heart, the knowledge we have and how we treat our fellow brothers and sisters. Man judges based on the outside. God Judges based on the inside :-) You are in my prayers that the Lord will guide and care for you and your family. Thanks again!! Please keep learning, sharing and helping others. With God’s grace and our best efforts, much good will be shared by all! :-)
Thank you Pastor Jeff for your openness in exploring our faith. I enjoy visiting your site often. I am coming out from California to attend General conference coming up here in October. My sister and I are going to attempt to get a standby bypass to the Sunday morning session. On Saturday the day before I will be with friends in Taylorsville viewing both morning and afternoon sessions. Back to Sunday afternoon session my sister and I will be visiting with some friends in the Ogden area to watch conference. Again my thanks for your honesty and your openness, you're a great guy and appreciate you very much.
I think another way of looking at faith and works would be that our works and our obedience to God's commandments show God how much WE love HIM. God absolutely loves us no matter what, but I believe we unlock more blessings from those works and that obedience, because we show God we're aligning our will with His. Malachi 3:10 speaks to this.
The degrees of Glory just make sense, you are rewarded for your good works. Someone who serves God and does great works most of their life should not dwell with someone who did no good works and caused others misery most of their life. Follow God’s commandments, be baptized and repent are the basics we as Christians should be helping everyone towards.
Wow! 👏🏼 This is the first time in possibly a long time that I’ve seen your content highlight the extra-Biblical discomfort, at a serious level. I really appreciate it, because I’ve struggled to watch you walk through the Book Of Mormon with guests, and not address the elephant in the room which is that this is all FAR from what God teaches in His Word. Next up - I would love to see you discuss the Closed Cannon with an LDS member/professor!
@@Steelblaidd A few examples. 1) Moroni 10:4-5 praying for truth. This isn't in the Bible. We are to check things out Acts 17:11. We are to test all things and hold on to the good. 2) 1 Nephi 13:26 "for behold they have taken away from the gospel". Matthew 5:18 and 1 Peter 1:23-25 says this isn't possible. 3) 2 Nephi 2:23 says Adam could do no good since he knew no sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says that Jesus also knew no sin, so the Book of Mormon implies that Jesus could do no good. 4) Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, but the Bible says Bethlehem.
@@mikematney3439 I'm sorry to be slow in responding. trying to answer this on my phone was not practical and I haven't had time to get to my personal computer till now. 1) "¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:." Mat 7:7 "If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraided not." James 1:5 Are you really trying to say that God doesn't answer prayers? 2) Both those scriptures are about God fulfilling his word, not men preaching it. Christ himself Prophesied the coming of false Christs (Mat 24:5, 24), and his Apostles were constantly warning of teachers "having a form of Godliness but denying the power (2 Tim 3:5) (acts 20:29, Gal1:6, 3:1, 2 Thes 2:3, 2 Tim 2:18, 4:4) Titus 1:16 2 Pet 3:17) Protestantism is built on the premise that the Catholic Church was preaching wrong doctrine. 3) The two situations are so different your comparison fails. Adam in the garden had no sin to know. Christ, living under the Romans, was surrounded by sin yet never chose it. 4) this isn't even doctrine. "At the land of Jerusalem" is an easy way to point back to the general area where they came from for a people 400 years and a hemisphere away from Israel with no maps. Bethlehem is 6 miles from the Temple Mount. When I was in Argentina I told people I was from the Houston Area because they could have an idea where that was without a map even though I lived an hour's drive south. If this is the strongest objection you have you are straining at gnats. If not why didn't you lead with the strongest?
In my study of the Bible and world history, I'm amazed at God’s attempt to lift his children closer to him. At the beginning of the first four thousand years, I believe the vast majority of people lived a telestial law, so God gave the world a higher law, the 10 commandments, to help people live the terrestrial law. This higher law, over time, and with the help of the Jews, helped prepare the world to receive the celestial law as taught by Jesus Christ. Over the next two thousand years, and thanks to Christian churches, the gospel helped prepare the world for the laws of exaltation that would be taught by Jesus at his second coming. The restored gospel is God’s attempt to prepare the world to live the higher laws of exaltation.This is why the church is building temples at such an unprecedented pace.I am 100% sure that when Christ comes, Pastor Jeff will be among the first to accept the higher law, enter God's temple and receive the saving ordinances of exaltation. He's just that kind of person.
As a person who grew up Mormon. If you want to convince a Mormon that the church is not true treat them with love and kindness. They're hard enough on each other.
Hi Jeff. I like how you mentioned "distilled" experiences with the Church. For me, it "distills" or boils down to whether the Book of Mormon is true. If it is, then Joseph Smith was a prophet and that we have prophets today, who receive clarifications on and reveal doctrine from the Lord. The Book of Mormon TRULY is the keystone of our religion!
Did anything surprise you about my understanding of what I learned at BYU?
I am surprised that you shared everything you learned (0:52) in 22 minutes and 19 seconds (and that includes the obligatory intro that youtube videos have which I myself dislike) 😉
I’m always surprised and pleased with your charitable take on your experiences among us. I look forward to attending your service with my wife one of these days. Btw count me in if you’re ever invited to present at eduction week 🙋
I was surprised the teacher's answer to you as to where someone like you would go. Personally, as a Latter-day saint, I disagree with him. I would say it would depend on the spiritual witness you receive. If you were presented the info, received a spiritual confirmation, and then pushed it aside or preferred not to act on it, that would be more likely. BUT (huge but) I don't think any of us can say for certain who's going where in the end while here on earth. We're by no means the perfect judge/advocate. That role goes to Jesus.
Jeff, as a 6th generation member of the LDS church, I still don’t understand everything and struggle to make sense of some things just like you. My 3rd great-grandfather was one of the earliest converts to the LDS faith and knew the prophet Joseph well, and was a bodyguard to him. He wrote in his journal one day about how he was in the Nauvoo temple before it was fully constructed, performing baptisms for the dead. Joseph was present and my grandfather came to him and said that he did not believe in this practice. Instantly he fell to the floor and the others present were told by Joseph to pick up brother Abraham (Palmer…my grandfather) and place him on a bench - for he is learning the doctrine of baptism for the dead. A few moments later, Abraham came to himself and stood up and said “I have come to know for myself that this is a true doctrine”, and proceeded to help with performing the ordinance.
God gives us milk before meat. If we are not ready for the WHY, then we must sometimes just practice the law or doctrine to come to understand it. It’s like that with me and tithing. God doesn’t need my $$. But by living this law, I have witnessed countless blessings in my life, both temporal and spiritual.
Proverbs 3:5-6 says it well: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Love the videos, and I’ve been following you in this journey and you may not see it, but I definitely see a different Jeff than when you set out.
With regards to the who goes to what kingdom question - it is not our (LDS) assumption that just because we have gone to church our whole lives every Sunday, and made all the necessary covenants / saving ordinances for ourselves and have regularly attended the temple to do proxy work that that’s our free ticket to the Celestial Kingdom. Those things are all good - but again faith without works is dead (and vice versa), so if this outward performing saint lacks faith, hope and charity, he / she would be very uncomfortable living in a Celestial order if they are inwardly prideful, selfish, carnally-minded people.
Neither the presentor of that class, nor a bishop or the president of the Church has the power to judge our final eternal destiny. That belongs to God, with Christ as our advocate with the Father.
I do find it interesting that as an Evangelical who doesn’t believe in LDS doctrine, that the idea of being in a degree of Glory where the Saviour will be, and which is glorious beyond description, and is exactly the heaven that you envision, seems to offend you - while most Evangelicals have no problem thinking that all LDS believers will go to Hell for believing in a “different Jesus”.
God is merciful and just and He will not force His children into a covenant relationship with Him. But for those who will, He offers more than just salvation to your comfort level. He offers exaltation and “all that the Father hath”.
I think you're not able to understand the perspective. As a Protestant I didn't notice any offense in this video. But it's not a concern about which heaven you tell us we'll be in, but a concern about others having the right perspective of our sin separating us from God and how God brings us back into right relationship with Him. That is the Protestant understanding of heaven and hell. We're all already on a path towards hell if we don't have a right relationship with God because of Adam and Eve's sin. You're assuming Protestants view everyone as neutral and God decides our eternal destination based on the Jesus one understands. But it isn't that way. Jesus is God and He knows if He has a relationship with you or not - He knows if you have submitted to his salvation. If you do not have a relationship with Him, but it was some kind of idol instead, you do not spend eternity with Him.
We don't believe everyone is neutral. We believe we are all sinners, but we don't subscribe said state to Adam's choice but rather take accountability and say our fallen state is our own.
We also don't believe you are judged according to the Jesus you understand. Our Eternal Father judges us all based on His wisdom, mercy, and love. And the One true Saviour and God of mankind stands as our advocate to the Father.
@@valeried7210you say god knows if we have a relationship with him. But boy are evangelicals quick to think they know what God thinks about LDS and no matter what relationship we have with God, We are going to hell. What you say is completely the opposite to what you express in word and belief to LDS. So which is it? Are we going to hell because we are LDS? Or are we not because we have a real and personal relationship with Christ? You have taken the role of Christ and become judge, jury, and, executioner.
@@magic_honey I know that. I was suggesting that's how he's wrongly characterizing evangelicals
@@brainhunter1000 we can know through the Bible what Jesus says about Himself. If anyone goes to hell, it's because of their sin and not because of any membership they have. If they go to heaven, it's because they know the one true living God. I don't know your relationship with God unless it contradicts something He has told me about Himself. I do claim Him as a friend, and could only tell you what He says.
I disagree with that sentiment that people who hear the teachings but don’t accept them can’t receive celestial glory, as there is a lot of assumptions made. For example when we say they have heard the teachings, are they receiving them from some random person or from someone who has the spirit with them and they feel that spirit then turn it all down. There are two different situations. But even then I would say the way a person lives there life is an important aspect of the judgment. All this to say I think there is too much for us to say definitely who can get celestial glory and who won’t. The most important thing is to live a good life and serve those around us in short live like Christ as much as possible.
Amen! I couldn’t agree more. it really doesn’t matter a person’s religion; it matters how one lives their life. Are we kind to people from all different backgrounds and faiths (or no faith)? Do we serve those around us even if it means we have to get outside our comfort zone? are we trying to treat others and love others like Jesus did? We don’t need to get all hung up over where we go when we die. I like to believe that God is not punitive.
Yep, I thinks so too.
I think n I believe and what is said is a difference thing of what is stated and what do those statements really mean. If you believe in God just know that Christ's did us a favor by dying for us. Becauae only he can advocate for our ignorance. Hopefully by than we are in a more grateful humbled attitude.
That’s where God’s judgment comes in to play.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s as simple as you listened to the teachings of the LDS church and didn’t accept it. There are also a lot of people who grew up in the church and for whatever reason reject it - maybe because they misunderstand something or they just have a problem with something in the church. I don’t think their fate is sealed so to speak. The work continues throughout the millennium and up until the resurrection. I believe Jesus is giving us every opportunity to repent and receive the ordinances.
Pastor- it is understood everywhere in the church that Joseph Smith was only a prophet. Jesus Christ is always the focus of our worship. No one believes Joseph Smith is greater than Jesus.
BuT tHe sOng PraiSe tO thE MAnnnnnnn is usually what they would bring up haha
Except for Joseph. He even said no one could keep a church together, not even Jesus, but that only he could keep a church. He had quite the ego
@@kaciestansfield6251 haha nice try
@@HMC117 Do you mean the hymn: Praise to the Man (Joseph Smith) who communed with Jehovah. Jesus anointed that prophet and seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation.😁
@@bobrussell8339 yeah that’s the one haha great song 👍
I’m active LDS, and I find the idea of degrees of glory very comforting and moving. That said, I don’t think it’s given to us so that we can look around us and decide what degree of glory each person we know will end up in.
Speaking only for myself, I want all that our Father offers, and I hope for the same for everyone else I know. I trust Him completely to sort this out.
The description of the degrees of glory is helpful to me because it describes the way I should aspire to conduct my life. Jesus was pretty clear that no one who receives a gift from God has grounds to complain that others receive the same reward even though he thinks they are less deserving.
Yes and yes again! We are nobodies judge. Christ is judge. We have no right to determine what level of acceptance in this life will save us in the celestial kingdom. We only know before judgement you and everyone will be given a perfect opportunity for them to accept each teaching and that at some point must accept the gospel and be baptized by someone in authority. But we should never make the judgement of what that means for a specific person, when it will happen, or what a perfect opportunity looks like.
I completely agree. Like you've said Pastor Jeff, God is ever full of mercy and grace! I believe God's purpose is to save the world not to condemn it. His work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I believe that eternal life in this context is to live with and like our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ. He will give everyone a perfect opportunity to receive whichever glory they are prepared for. I truly believe that decision will be in each individual's best interest with their eternal growth and wellbeing in mind. AND only God can decide where that is. He is the judge.
@@brainhunter1000 I don't disagree with you that we on Earth are nobody's judge, but there is a definitive framework to determine which degree of glory an individual will obtain after receiving universal salvation, and in most cases it's possible to discern _hypothetically_ where someone fits within that framework barring any circumstances of which we are indeed not the judge.
With regard to Judgement, the system and roles described in the scriptures reference different things at different times, with both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ acting as judge, and even servants such as the Apostles (Matthew 19:28; 1 Nephi 12:9-10) fulfilling this function. My understanding is that Heavenly Father is the ultimate and final Judge of mankind, and when we stand before Him in the Court of Heaven it is Christ who will perform the role of Advocate and plead our case before the Father, with particular scrutiny where individual circumstances do not situate someone clearly within the framework for determining and receiving glory. On the other hand, before assuming the role of Advocate before the Father, Christ Himself must first determine what our case actually is and the nuances of our individual circumstances. In this capacity He serves as Judge (in the Court of Zion, to my mind, because what else is there to get done in the Millennium other than temple work) and appoints righteous servants to assist Him as auxiliary judges in this endeavour.
@@michaelheliotis5279 beautifully said. I think also that we judge ourselves. The Book of Mormon talks about the resurrection being a restoration. Like restored to like. In that sense, we decide ourselves where we will end up.
Now for Celestial Glory in the presence of the Lord
I will work and watch and humbly bow the knee
No longer Faith but Knowledge in True and sweet Accord
since the Precious Angel Message came to me
-From an RLDS hymn.
Jeff, I've watched your channel off & on since the beginning. Your courage, integrity, and growth in understanding are nothing short of amazing. It thrills me to see you've made so many friends like Tyler and others who are among the best educators in our Church. As one who has listened to a lot of Christian radio for decades now, I've noticed a gradual coming together by some. The Chosen TV series is also helping our faiths to unify so we can stand stronger together as witnesses of Christ in a hostile world. You are doing a valuable work that few would undertake. We all have so much yet to learn of Christ and the life to come that I don't think anyone has all the answers. But as saints who believe in continuing revelation, eventually, answers will come to those who seek them. I love learning with you and that you are willing to learn right along with us.
Active Latter-day Saint here. I disagree with the instructor who said mainstream Christians would automatically go to the terrestrial kingdom if they didn’t join the LDS church.
The reality is that anyone who says they know who will end up exactly where is taking judgement from Christ to whom it belongs. In my opinion, that instructor was off base.
…I agree that it’s only God who ultimately determines our fate after this life.
On the other hand, the LDS are quite clear that without the saving ordinances done by “a person with priesthood authority”…ie. LDS, that person will not receive Celecial Glory.
If you don’t believe this, please re-read the Doctrine and Covenants. You might not agree with it, but that is what is being taught.
This is what I was thinking. We don't know where everyone will go, what rules they'll have to abide by to get there, or if "receiving the gospel" is more accepting Christ in our lives.
And besides, Christ would know how difficult it would be to accept something so similar, yet radically different. Whether or not we're drawing closer to Him should be the main concern.
Yeah, I think pastor Jeff and all others like him will get the opportunity in the millennium or the spirit world to accept ordinances to go to the celestial kingdom. God is all knowing and merciful, all will get their chance with perfect justice and mercy.
This is incorrect. I agree with the instructor, and I’d be curious to hear you elaborate about why you disagree. How can one enter the Celestial Kingdom without being baptized into the Kingdom of God?
Do you mean that mainstream Christians don’t have to join the church in this lifetime because they can in the next? If so, then fine. This is not the same as “not joining the church.” Doctrinally you must join the church to receive salvation in the Celestial Kingdom whether it be in this life or the next.
@@BGCflyerWhile it is true that only those who receive all the ordinances can receive the highest glory, my understanding is that by judgement day every living soul will have received all necessary ordinances. That is what the millennium is for. So this will not be an issue. The only issue will be our faith and commitment to Jesus Christ and his Gospel, which all will have a better understanding of at that day.
8 :00 - Biblical scripture does not teach we are born into this world sinful. In fact... new born babies are absolutely sinless. It is not a sin to be born It is not a sin to be mortal and little children are innocent until they learn to sin and likewise learn not to.
What the Bible does teach is, we are born with the capability to sin and will sin.
And thankyou Jeff! Excellent show today. :>)
Ps 51.5 gives a different answer.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and this is why no one can work their way to heaven. Psalm 139 In sin I was conceived. Jesus Christ, the thrill of hope, for a sick, hurting, and weary world-Romans 10:9-10 from the Bible: “That if you confess with your mouth the LORD Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”
@@polemeros Like I said and Psalms supports, we are born into a sinful world. In a sinful mortal reality. We are not born with sin. We develop a sinful nature through disobedience. Not born with sin.
@@godsoffspring4195 I suggest you read Romans 3, Paul disagrees with your belief.
@@lindalloyd5749 If he did I think you would be more specific. Yes?? :>)
I have no doubts that all faithful Latter Day Saints Knows that Jesus is greater than Joseph.
I mean how can we get a more absurd evangelical reality of what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints actually believe?The Church members have never claimed to worship Joseph Smith, as much as the ancient Israelities never claimed to worship Moses. Look up what a prophet is and the role of a prophet. There are many, many examples in the Old and New Testament. Prophets testify of Christ--"That He lives...That by Him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." D&C 76:22-24. Joseph is a living prophet sent in these last days through the mercy of God, our Father, "That faith might increase in the earth; That mine everlasting covenant might be established; That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the earth, and before kings and rulers...to have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it out of obscurity and out of darkness." D&C 1:30. We have always claimed to worship Jesus Christ. He is the way, the truth, and the life. John 3:16. Everything we do is in His name, in His honor, in His glory, in His power. We can, of ourselves, do nothing. John 5:30.
I would say though as a cultural member the implications, the nuances and details of what that means doctrinally get Lost on so many and what that actually means for the present day. A good example is Joseph's runs for office versus jesus's condemnations of Roman officials and even religious officials. This plays heavily into whether someone who is learning about faith, government and their interplay is going to assume that someone should oppose what the government is doing versus accepting it. I take a nuanced view which is that over time and with different issues, you can't just be blindly contrarian and think that it's all going to be one or another. A good example I heard is "Hitler liked dogs, are you going to be like Hitler?" But to go deeper into it, Jesus specifically said blessed is the peacemaker, which is directly in opposition to acting in a violent manner, which being involved in the army will teach you to do. I know there are alot of people who think they can change things by being a force for good there and change people's minds and create a better culture, but the army has the term consciencous objector for a reason. The system already knows, has developed countermeasures long ago, and the system will change you far more than you can change the system.
So to say Jesus deserves more credit than Joseph..... This actually means something, that can have direct implications in our lives and how they turn out.
It's not only about who did what, but why and how.
@@ethanstump I honestly hoped that I could grasp your point brother, I feel like a simple statement turned into something over complicated. I would love if you could simplify your argument.
As others have said, the man who taught that a mainstream Christian would not receive Celestial glory is making a controversial statement within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Some would interpret his position as correct, many others would not. One thing we have been taught is that no one will ultimately be where they do not belong and that Jesus, who is our judge and has a perfect knowledge will consider every factor of our lives.
In your case Pastor Jeff, and this is only my opinion, but I have little to no doubt of your eternal salvation and exaltation. You have shown yourself to be a brave, humble and devoted follower of Christ. So if the LDS view of the Plan of Salvation turns out to be true, I have no doubt that in the next life, when presented with a new perspective and ways to follow Christ, that after an awkward laugh you would accept the new information and continue to follow Christ. Ultimately though it is only Jesus Christ who can and will judge us.
You make several excellent points. The instructor at BYU Education Week made it clear that one who in mortality does not accept the covenant path to Celestial Glory will be limited to the Terrestrial Kingdom. But how that path is presented, the mind set of the person, and how the influence of the Holy Spirit is received can affect what is "accepted". A "new perspective" can make all the difference, whether in mortality or in the Spirit World.
Choosing what to believe or not to believe can delay for years, even decades, a changed life that in retrospect could have been lived more fully. A conscious choice to delay with the expectation that a different decision can be made after death is unlikely in my opinion to work out well. However, choosing to not follow the covenant path because one does not believe it during mortality is different. And the opportunity for a new perspective in the Spirit World gives me great hope for some of my dearest ancestors who chose in this life to believe differently.
Faith without works is desd!@@cameronschlehuber2678
YES, THIS. We as LDS *can* believe that if you don't accept "the gospel" you lose out on the celestial kingdom but also believe the only one who can make this judgement call is God. We don't think these two ideas conflict because we don't know what constitutes knowing enough to be judged for it. And we don't know how much we'll learn after death before the decision is made. There's an interlude period between death and judgement, so who knows. No LDS member can ever claim to know who will go in what kingdom. We don't play the heaven for me, hell for you game. We don't believe that either you Jeff or the BYU prof has the power to make the judgement call. He's merely stating the doctrine. I wish you well on your journey just as everyone else in this life.
I love you man, but from my perspective, you got one thing wrong. You said that the teacher said, "because you haven't accepted the LDS Gospel, you'll go to the terrestial Kindom."
Look, it's all about our commitment to follow Jesus. You are following Jesus the best way you know how. And I'm following Jesus the best way I know how. The question isn't, "what church did you join?" But we'll be face to face with Jesus, and we'll be judged on how well we followed him, his teaching, his example, his prophets. Did we truly take his name upon us. It's not about looking at it ID, it's about looking at our heart. There are plenty of Latter-Day Saints who will go to the Terrestial Kingdom, and plenty of Evangelicals who will go to the Celestial.
In D&C 10:67 the Lord says that His church are those who repent and follow Him. You are correct, and the scriptures, including the LDS scriptures back you up.
You are forgetting that there are two saving ordinances, baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost that must be performed by individuals holding God's authorized priesthood in order to go to the celestial kingdom. Remember in the Bible Jesus said, "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." That is the reason Jesus, in 1829, sent John the Baptist to restore the Aaronic Priesthood which has the authority to baptize. Baptism opens the gate to a remission of repentant sins, and provides membership in the Kingdom of God and the House of Israel which are all required to enter the celestial kingdom. It is also why He sent Peter, James, and John to restore the Melchizedek Priesthood which is required to give the Gift of the Holy Ghost so that a person can be "born again." These two saving ordinances are only found in the Kingdom of God as established by Jesus Christ and which He named The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints. No saving ordinances are required to go to either the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms. Read Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8: 14-20, 3 Nephi 11. Baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost are saving ordinances that are not performed in the temple for living persons. Temple ordinances are not required for salvation in the Celestial Kingdom, only to be exalted in the celestial kingdom.
One other thing, if someone believes that they will be with Jesus forever, and that God and Jesus are the same being, and they don't believe in eternal marriage, then they will end up in the Terrestrial Kingdom, and that is where they would want to end up. They would have access to Jesus and the Holy Ghost. That is their heaven, and they shouldn't be offended if we believe they would go where they ultimately want to go.
@@kseismoloj Perfect answer.
Absolutely, and if it wasn't clear in the class, learning goes on long after you die. You are not judged immediately. So if you, Pastor Jeff, along with all of us, are continuing to learn and change, and Jesus explained to you in a way you could understand about His plan of salvation and why we do what we do, about eternal progression, I have no doubt that your heart is one that would accept all He has to say, all He has to teach, and that you would want every blessing available to you. We will ALL have our understandings tweaked and will be given opportunities to change our minds, have our hearts changed, and continue to grow in response to all that we learn. So it's a little early to take the fatalist attitude that you are doomed in our eyes. It's not over until He says it's over - until you have been given a full understanding of exactly what you are turning down, should you choose to do so. Of course, he would be thrilled if you hastened that day and asked Him with a true and honest heart if what you are learning from the LDS church is true, but that's between you and Him. I love your videos, but would love to see you move from the intellectual understanding to the understanding of the heart and the spirit.
While they may not have known you specifically were in audience, it is very common for people who are not members of the church to attend these type of education weeks. It is expected. Because of that, the teacher may have felt the need to clarify that Jesus is greater than Joseph not because it is ever a misconception amongst members (we truly do understand and believe that), but because it is a common misconception of people who aren't members that they often like to lodge against our church. With that said, I really appreciate your take as well as the time and effort you put into both trying to understand our faith and beliefs and also give understanding of your faith and beliefs as well! It means more than you'll ever know
Hey, Jeff! I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into understanding how Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe and worship. It is useful to my own understanding, study, and examination to hear the perspective of someone who is learning this as an adult, and didn't grow up with it as part of every moment of your life. Thank you for fostering an atmosphere of collaboration and communication and exemplifying the peace the Jesus brought to people of differing beliefs. We truly can have differing beliefs and understandings, AND get along peacefully!
Agreed
I have had immediate healing from priesthood blessings when I was not well, and had been very scared of how I was feeling. The comfort and healing that came over me was amazing. One was immediate. That was a stomach problem. Another one blessed me to know that Jesus would be working to help me to heal, right there, as I was sleeping. I was very comforted, humbled and amazed that he would come down to help me right then, personally. Other blessings I have had, before going into two hospitals, the promises in them all came very true, in the most complete sense of the word!! Because of my illness, I was nervous and apprehensive about the future before those blessings, but I am always comforted by the Holy Spirit, because I know that the inspiration is from God, and also the reassurance and the healing. The priesthood blesses the recipient, not just give counsel…but any counsel is inspired too. The more faith we have in what we are blessed with, the more power that the Lord has to perform his miracles.
Other comments have already touched on this but I would also support the notion that although we have a general idea of the criteria for each level of glory within the celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms, there's so much we don't know about specifics of how Christ's infinite mercy will be applied. One of my favorite titles of Jesus is our "advocate," AKA Jesus Christ is each individual's defense attorney at judgment day, and there is no one I'd rather have defend me at judgment day than Jesus. I'll also add one of the qualifications for the celestial kingdom is to be valiant in our testimonies of Jesus (D&C 76) and you're doing FANTASTIC work on that front Jeff, this is really great content to help others build their faith in the Savior!!
That also plays into the grace vs. works conversation, which I'm so glad you touched on. It is amazing to think about grace actively playing a part in our lives every day here on Earth as the Holy Ghost guides us despite our imperfections, and not just on judgment day whether we've "done enough" because there could never be "enough," we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans). Works help us become more Christlike, and covenants (baptism, temple ordinances) help us accept Christ's atoning sacrifice, but at the end of the day we need grace start to finish, grace and works are both necessary to fulfilling God's mission statement, "For behold this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." -Moses 1:39
I think an important thing for Latter-Day Saints to remember when looking at any theological discussion with a Christian of a different faith is: we are different and supposed to be.
We love common ground, and community with others who share many similar values, particularly in a world that is increasingly turning from a belief in any God other than self, but, we are not just another sect. We are different and meant to be.
This is rooted in that we believe God still reveals.
This is why the critique that our beliefs are not "biblical" doesn't exactly land. We want to hold to what is true, of course, but we are gratefully the recipient of so much more He has revealed that had provided us with clarity. We also know He will reveal more to help us clarify further as we grow closer to Him.
Latter-Day Saints should be so grateful to not always be in step with "mainstream Christianity".
@josephfavre2909 I'm glad you are aware of these things. The LDS faith is different and meant to be that way. Christians do not worship the LDS Heavenly Father, the LDS Christ, nor do they believe in the LDS gospel.
Revelation 21 and 22 tell us what heaven will be like. Believers will be all together on the new earth and new heaven serving God and Christ. The true and living God doesn't separate his children on different levels or planets. God would never damn people who deny the eternal principle of polygamy. (D&C 132) Women are not separated from their families, so they can be in a polygamous relationship for all eternity.
Heaven is a world of love. God loves everyone. ❤️
@johntippets1737
In order to be justified before a holy God, we need to be perfect. We need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
There is nothing anyone could ever do to measure up to God's standard of perfection.
The good news, the gospel (I Cor. 15:1-4), is that Christ has already done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again. Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them.
Jesus Christ imputes/ gives us his perfection as a gift. It's how Abraham and King David were justified. It's the only way anyone can get into heaven.
James 2 - Works are the evidence of our faith.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do I agree that works are the evidence of our faith, and I also agree that faith and repentance are the crux of the gospel of Jesus Christ! In our doctrine, we also believe covenants by authority (baptism, the sacrament or communion, and the temple) allow us to accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice, which is really the main difference between Evangelicals and members of The Church of Jesus Christ that we believe in covenants by authority. Even if we make covenants however, we will always need Jesus' grace because our own efforts will never be sufficient to, as you said, reach Jesus's immensely high standard of perfection.
@@johntippets1737 For me, the main difference between the LDS church and Christianity is the God and Christ that I worship and the gospel that I believe in.
The true and living God the Father is invisible and a spirit. He is not a man. (I Timothy 1:17, Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 11:27)
The Christ of the Bible claimed to be God. (Not God the Father of course) Christ was crucified because he claimed to be God. It was called blasphemy and punishable by death. God the Father said that his Son was God. (Hebrews 1:8)
The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Christ has already done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again. Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them.
Making covenants, tithing, believing that the Book of Mormon is true, joining a church, believing that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, going through an Endowment Ceremony, putting on Lucifer's power and priesthoods, taking blood oaths, doing good works, getting married, etc., would never be enough to measure up to God's standard of perfection. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
As a person who grew up in the church and is no longer active. But still loves and appreciates the foundation the church provided for me…
This video was beautifully done. I’ve seen so many people do these videos with obvious bias and negative energy. This video was beautifully done. It’s okay to not agree. You explained things simply and fairly and with an open mind. Thank you.
Thank you for attending so many church events and focusing on learning. So many don't want to put themselves in this position, or act charitably, but I appreciate how willing you are to learn about our beliefs, and respond to them with charity.
@@coleenburris6816 I don't think that's a judgement we can truly make. Believe that if you want. But I've had "discussions" with non-LDS Christians, and they can be... Aggressive.
Someone who stands for being kind and understanding is appreciated.
@@coleenburris6816 Do you know what the scriptures say about judging rashly?
@@coleenburris6816 you bet! I was referring to your comments accusing him of doing it for a paycheck. That's judging his motives and heart. The Holy Bible says only God knows the heart of man (1 Samuel 16: 7). Questioning motives may sometimes be appropriate, but not rash judgements. Using the Golden Rule helps me with this.
@@coleenburris6816 Just keep trying to improve because Jesus asks us to be kind and loving as much as possible.
@@coleenburris6816 I think he's getting comments that he'll join and he wants to make it clear that is not his intention. I've also noticed a lack of objectivity at times. For example, he said Joseph was caught in the crossfire, but in reality Joesph was the main target, and they hit that target. We can point out things like that specifically, rather than try to judge his character. But he is usually very objective compared to most other non members of his religion.
You are a remarkable young man. Your open mind to things religious is amazing Thank you for sharing your insights.
Perhaps this is your calling and you are doing exactly what you should be doing. Just be the best person you can be then when you meet the Savior, he will know your heart. They talk in general terms with accepting the gospel.
Agreed
@@Logos-TheGodMan Actually, he does not misrepresent. Open mindedness, so you know, is the ability to ciew many disparate objects and appreciate them for what they are. Christ was open minded, as are true christians, That does not mean accepting of all tings just that there is appreciation for all things. God bless you to reach that state of Christ like being. Remember, jydge not that yet be not judged.
@@danielclark5586 Is that your judgment?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do There is no judgement in my comment at all. AN observation is not a judgement.
Thank you for attending the classes. I appreciate your insights as an outsider. Yes, at the end of the day, we have to drive past these intellectual exercises and drive toward the heart. May we all continue to grow in His Grace.
And good luck with next year's selection to educate us!
Hi Pastor Jeff, just wanted to let you know how much I admire your willingness to engage with such difficult yet meaningful topics.
Me too.
Thank You for a serious effort to understand, but describing LDS a "top-down" misses the very point of the top-down structure: Jesus Christ IS the focal point and IS at the peak of the top-down structure! Thus, there is a single person, called, tried and proven (and uniquely supported by an undivided Quorum of 12 Apostles). and following the spiritual directions of Jesus Christ (again, supported by an undivided Quorum of 12)!! There IS no "rubber-stamping" of positions!!
@@zubenelgenubi It is top down though. One of the temple questions is, do you sustain the leaders of the church as the only ones authorized to speak for Christ (paraphrazed). Even when you receive a personal revelation you have to check it against what the leaders say. Which is to say, if it doesn't line up, it wasn't really from God.
Ditto this! I find it very admirable 😃
Those that reject the gospel of Christ on this earth will achieve at most the Terrestrial kingdom. HOWEVER, it is unclear what constitutes a rejection. There is a continuous spectrum between a casual exposure to the church and receiving a witness of its truthfulness by the Holy Ghost. If you receive a clear witness and reject it, that is one thing, but everything in between is speculation and conjecture and I am happy that God sits as judge because no one else can know our hearts.
In other words, no one knows the heart of pastor Jeff so any declaration about where he'll end up is speculation. In my opinion, when presented with the fullness of the truth by Christ after death, all sincere Christians will gladly accept Christ and make covenants with Him via the ordinances that are performed in temples.
Thanks Jeff! You are right, we do have a quite different understanding of the meaning of the fall and the purpose of the atonement. To me, it doesn't make the character of Jesus' love different (it is still sacrificial and infinite like the Jesus you believe in) but it does add another layer of purpose to the entire drama. That layer has to do with God knowing that the fall was necessary, specifically for our GROWTH. Rather than just to bring us into right relationship that had been lost, it is also, through that relationship and through the struggle of recovering it, to make us into beings of celestial glory so that Jesus can be "the first born among many brethren." God wants us to grow up in Him, and no eye can tell nor tongue can speak what He has prepared for them that love him.
I love you and your point of view. Thank you for being so open and willing to share.
I believe the single most important thing we have is our relationship with God. Our testimony of Jesus Christ and in his ability to save us from sin. It is that relationship through prayer and service which compels me to have charity and love and kindness for others. My focus has never been "what degree" I might obtain after this life or the Second Coming. To have charity. To live a life of service to others.
I especially appreciate your comments on BYU Education Week. It seems you study and ponder and think about Scripture in a way very similar to my own. I also love those same types of classes and talks the best. Thank you for your videos and your ability to delicately and politely discuss what resonates, and what doesn't. We'll done!
Pastor Jeff, as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and after having been raised Catholic, I just wanted to thank you for your videos. I find you to be an honest, faithful follower of Jesus Christ. We may differ on our interpretation of scripture, which is why we’re admonished in James to “ask of God”, but we can certainly agree that Jesus is the Son of God and our advocate with the Father so if we’re living an honest, faithful life and willing to accept the Father’s will, as Jesus did, regardless of when the “gospel” is presented to us, we will be rewarded. All I know is I’d rather hang out with you in the next life than a lot of LDS people I’ve associated with. 😊
As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS I was taught that you have to reject the teachings in their purity with full understanding to be unable to receive the blessings. Most people (few) really understand what God means regarding these doctrines so I don't rule you out at all. If Christ taught you a more expanded doctrine and you had the Holy Ghost present and you rejected it then it might exclude you. But the eternities are long and as one apostle said there isn't one plan of happiness but an individual one for each of God's children. Each of us is given a slightly different path to truth so that we can grow to our full Christlike selves. In the end, we decide when to stop becoming like Him. I can't wait to meet you in His presence.
I attended the LSD Church with a friend for a year. I attend the ward’s Sunday Services (Sacrament meeting), Sunday school classes and priesthood meeting for a year. I found that the Mormon theology, doctrine and scripture all had the signs of a cult. The teaching of salvation by works drove one of my friends to suicide. His note “I can live up to the standards demanded of me”.
1) Another Jesus - 2 Cor. 11:4 & Mat. 24:24 & 1 Cor 1:17-18 & Col 1:20, (LDS Reject the deity of Jesus and the message of the cross, Jesus is created being, not God in the flesh as John 1:1 teaches, Jesus became a god)
2) Non-Biblical Source of Authority. Another Gospel Gal 1:6 Acts 17:11, 2Tim3:16 ( LDS has above the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) Book of Mormon does not teach LDS Doctrine, LDS Doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants.
3) Salvation by works. Rom 11:6, Gal 2:21, Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8 (LDS Reject salvation by grace, a free gift given by God, by God thru faith in Jesus Christ) Saved by grace after all we can do” is a phrase from the Book of Mormon verse 2 Nephi 25:23. This is LDS Doctrine grace plus works is not Grace.
4) Closed group with no fellowship (accountability) with other like minded groups. Eph 5:21 & 1 Cor 1:12 & Col 1:24. (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.)
5) Strong dominating leader (-ship) who has unquestionable authority over the group. 2 Cor 11:13-14 1Tim6:3 2 Peter 2:1 1 John 4:1, The J. Smith and the living prophet.
6) Group holds: new truths and revelation & all truths and keys. 2Cor 4:2, Reject Historical Christianity: Salvation by grace and forgives, one God, salvation at the Cross of Jesus.
7) New writings that proclaim and interpret these new truths. Rev 22:18 (Bible Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.)
8) Only the group is able to act and speak in the name of God. 1 Cor1 4:36. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.
8) Changing Theology-God Is 43:10-11, Malachi 3:6. Hebrews 6:17, Black were bad now OK, polygamy was to godhood for men, now bad and on and on.
9) Non-Biblical Teaching on the Nature of God Rom 1:22,23 Jude 1:4 ( humanize God, God was once an man and become God, God as body, Jesus became a god)
10) No one having joined can freely leave. (excommunication or trial is held.) 2 Corinthians 3:17. You can not just have your name remove, there will be a excommunication trial. You can not ask for letter of transfer to another churches, like Christian church do.)
11) False Prophecy Mat 24:11, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1 (Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri, much of Doctrine & Covenants Section 11, Doctrine & Covenants 114:1, and more)
12) Men can become gods. Those who live worthy to become gods D&C 132:20. This is the goal of the Temple work.
13) Simple question are answered with long evasive statements. Matt 5:37
14) The reputation of the group is more important that any one individual. (people are sacrificed) Romans 12:10 Romans 13:8 1 Peter 3:8
14) Double Talk - Statements contradict themselves Rom16:18 1Tim1:6 Jam1:8, Like: LDS believe in grace, but do not believe in Salvation by Grace.
I just want to say how much I enjoy your channel. You are so gracious, truthful and insightful with your observations of the LDS church and culture. Appreciate you doing much. Thank you for coming to Utah.
Regarding who goes where after this life, it is important to remember that we will receive all that we are willing to receive. There are broad categories / descriptions of who goes to the celestial/terrestrial/telestial kingdoms, but I believe there is a lot of nuance in trying to decide who had a full opportunity to receive the gospel. I believe someone may live their whole life around the church and never seek a spiritual witness of its truthfulness because of the poor example of members of the church. I believe there are people who are so entrenched in their own traditions, that it makes it difficult to receive that witness. I also believe that God raises people up to certain tasks in this world that they may not be able to do if they were members of the church. I have to say, you have probably done more good with this channel than I did in my two year mission. Eternity is a long time. God is merciful and just, and I believe his grace and patience is sufficient for all people that are honestly seeking him. Just don't be surprised when the Mormons keep coming to your door even after this life...
Agree with the part that God may require some in this life to never accept the gospel. There are millions of people in this world that are not ready and they too need examples and Pasteur to teach them. As long as we follow the spirit and do everything the Lord asks, he will withhold 0 blessings from us. That view is consistent with requiring certain covenants and ordinances because of the temple. The temple is the great equalizer.
I love that you share the actual gospel in your videos. Keep it up! It's the good news!
It’s actually Gods plan of salvation not Latter Day Saint plan. He instituted it with Adam and Eve and it was restored thru Joseph Smith.
Amen
Adam and Eve are parables, not historical figures and there is no record of any of this before 1830.
Flollow the teachings of Jesus! Love one another as I have loved you! This is a call of action and work! Keep the fath!
I think it’s cool you put in time to learn so much.
Pastor Jeff -
I just finished listening to your assessment of BYU Education week and wanted to share a thought. You mentioned that the instructor of the class explaining the 3 degrees of glory (not part of the church hierarchy) indicated that only those who have accepted the ordinances (performed by the proper authority as outlined in the New Testament) would be eligible for the celestial kingdom. I agree to a point with one caveat. As a lifelong member (pushing 70) who has been fully immersed in the doctrine, it’s my understanding from reading the scriptures (particularly D & C 76) that the dividing line which separates those in the celestial kingdom from lower kingdoms is that whenever a person receives the ordinances (mortal or post-mortal); the main criteria is that you have been VALIANT IN THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS (which ironically leaves out some Latter-day Saints). I am fully planning that my evangelical husband of 40 years will be with me! By that criteria - you are GOLDEN!
Non LDS here...can you expound on the ordinances, proper authority, and where in the New Testament this is found?
@@brushylake4606 Pauls epistle to the Hebrews indicates that priesthood authority was conveyed to Jesus Christ through a formal process and Christ conferred this power on chosen leaders in like manner. Hebrews 7:20-21/Heb 5: 5-6
Not without an oath he (Christ) was made priest.
The Lord swear and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
The same epistle declares, - And no man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God as was Aaron (Heb 5:1,4) The pattern approved by God is the process used to call Aaron (and his sons) "Consecrate them that they may minister to me in the Priests' office (Ex 30:30)
Paul points out "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee - thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (Heb 5:5-6).
The same pattern was adhered to by Christs disciples following the Savior's ascension. Saul and Barnabas were ordained to preach the gospel by recognized leaders of the church (Acts 13:1-3).
Paul was later ordained an apostle (1 Tim 2:7); by the laying on of hands, Timothy was set apart to be a bishop (1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6). Stephen received authority after the apostles laid their hands on him (Acts 6:1-6). Paul ordained elders in every church (Acts 14:34). In the Bible, laying on of hands is mentioned at least 25 times in conjunction with bestowing priesthood authority on others and performing priesthood ordinances.
Throughout the Bible, examples abound of those severely chastened for attempting to perform priesthood functions without having authority from formal channels. King Saul was stripped of his kingdom for performing sacrifices without proper authority. (1 Sam 13:8-15). King Uzziah was stricken with leprosy for burning incense on the the altar - a priesthood function (2 Chron 26:16-20). The sons of Sceva were wounded by one having an unclean spirit while attempting to cast out this evil spirit without proper authority (Acts 19:13-16). Simon, a convert, tried to acquire power to confer the Holy Ghost without being called under the direction of the Lord's appointed leaders. For this offense, Simon was severely rebuked by Peter (Acts 8:18-23).
Paul re-baptized certain disciples who had been baptized previously when questions arose about the authority of those who had performed the ordinance (Acts 19:1-6). Receiving baptism at the hands of unauthorized believers was not sufficient.
In the Old Testament, Korah and 250 princes of the assembly accused Moses and Aaron of inappropriately restricting the exercise of priesthood authority (Num 16). Korah apparently believed that any person was entitled to the priesthood in commenting "Ye take too much upon you - see all the congregation are holy, every one of them. (Num 16:3). The Lord was uncompromising in destroying all those who sought to usurp priest authority in not submitting to properly being called and ordained.
Paul indicates that the Savior made these provisions for perpetuating unity in the church - the vital method for retaining this unity was the formal structure of the church as Christ organized it:
And he (Christ) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ; Til we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God....no more tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine.
@@terijohnston1460 Thank you, that's an excellent summary. I already knew some of that about priesthood authority.
Now, the next question is how was that priesthood authority transmitted post New Testament?
Also, what is the Biblical basis for LDS ordinances?
@@brushylake4606 This is long and will be in 2 parts - Sorry for the delay - this will be a “deep dive”. I want to start with some thoughts on the Bible, as part of your question was the Biblical basis for LDS ordinances (which I can provide specific scriptures for if you like). As I’m sure you’re probably aware, Latter-day Saints don’t rely exclusively on the Bible as the sole basis for their doctrines/ordinances, although most (if not all) can be found and have their genesis there. We are often accused of relegating the Bible to a second-class status far beneath the significance attached to other canons of scripture, but in both doctrine and practice, this is an incorrect perception. The prominent position of the Bible in LDS teachings however, is often viewed as insufficient by many in the Christian community, who consider the Bible the definitive and sole authoritative source of true doctrine. The position of “sola scriptum” is defended vigorously within evangelical Protestantism, even though not all teachings are based exclusively on the Bible, some accepting official pronouncements of the Roman church through the eighth century. Teachings from these non-biblical sources, related to such beliefs as the Trinity, original sin and ex nihilo creation are defended vigorously by many though they still assert the Bible to be the sole and definitive source of revelation. A sympathetic view of the history of those doctrines is necessary to sustain those doctrines. The position from which a Latter-day Saint reads the Bible is that God can still speak, that revelation is continuous, that God can still call prophets, and that it takes modern revelation to give true meaning to ancient revelation, just as it takes the New Testament to give the true meaning to the Old Testament.
It's generally held among those in traditional Christian churches that their doctrines originated with the Bible. We do not believe this because the Bible did not exist until long after the creation of the church. If the church was organized by Christ or his apostles, then its organization came before any New Testament books were written. The book was created by the church, not the church by the book.
A true testimony must embrace faith in the Bible, but it cannot rest on the Bible. For it to be otherwise would be unbiblical, for the faithful Saints of whom we read in the Bible had no Bible. What they had was a faith founded on personal revelation, which was in harmony with and sustained by whatever scriptural texts were available to them, but it was not founded on them.
Many Christians think the Bible is a closed canon of scripture. Latter-day Saints do not. The Bible makes no such claims for itself. The passage often quoted to support that position is found near the end of the book of Revelation:
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life (Rev 22:18-19).
There are several problems with this interpretation. First, the writer of Deuteronomy issues a similar warning in two separate passages (Deut 4:2 & Deut 12:32) Also the writer of Proverbs (Prov 30:6). Applying that same logic, the entire New Testament would constitute unauthorized additions to Gods word. Second, most Biblical scholars agree that the Book of Revelation was not the last book to be written. The use of John’s phrase prohibiting additions seems to refer specifically to the phrase “The words of the book of this prophecy”(The Book of Revelation). Third, the Bible was not written as a book, but is a collection of writings, which were in circulation singly or in combination with others for centuries. The Bible as we know and use it in the Christian world today is one of the blessings of the age of printing. Complete Bibles were unknown before Gutenberg. To this day, Christians disagree on which books are the word of God. Catholics have added (or have Protestants deleted?) a large collection of books found in the ancient Greek manuscripts of the early Christian church.
The idea that the Holy Spirit can speak through extant scripture is beyond question. The idea that the Holy Spirit is confined to that medium for its expression is unscriptural. We believe that to declare the heavens sealed and the canon closed is to lose at the same time the very power by which the scriptures must be understood.
It is fundamental to the faith of Latter-day Saints that to believe in the Bible is to believe in the necessity of continuous revelation. For us, the Bible is marvelous evidence that God can and does speak, and that he will also speak to those of this day if they choose to listen.
@brushylake4606 Moving on to post New Testament authority, Latter-day Saints believe that Christ organized His Church, giving authority to those he chose to lead it. The New Testament gives every indication that God intended apostles and prophets to be perpetuated (although he knew they wouldn’t be). The first official act of the eleven apostles recorded in the Bible was to call Matthias to complete the quorum of twelve apostles following the demise of Judas. (Acts 1:13-26) The scriptures provide evidence of additional apostles, including James, the half-brother of Jesus (Gal 1:19) and Paul (Acts 14:14). Paul testified that he was “ordained a preacher, and apostle”. (1 Tim 2:7; 2 Tim 1:11). The Bible does not support the assertion that the organization that Christ set up was intended to pass out of existence.
Stephen, Timothy and others were ordained to offices in the priesthood (Acts 6:5-6; 1 Time 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6; Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5). The work and ministry of Christ’s church moved forward with power and extended its geographic reach throughout much of present-day southern Europe and western Asia.
As the church grew in numbers and public awareness, persecution intensified on many fronts (Acts 7:59; 14:1-6; 19). In 70 AD, Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the center of the church, and leveled the temple. One by one, the apostles died off, or more often were killed. (Acts 12:2). Congregations of saints in Asia and elsewhere fell under general condemnation (Rev chapters 2 & 3). Around the end of the first century, the last writings of what is now the New Testament were completed, and God’s revelation to man ceased. On these general outlines of church history, most Christian denominations agree.
At this point in the history of Christianity, three divergent positions emerge to explain subsequent events. Roman Catholics maintain the formal church of Christ continued in unbroken papal succession from Peter to the present-day Pope. Protestants contend the Christian church remained on earth and true believers in Christ have continued in force since the church was first organized. According to many Protestant denominations, they recognize the councils of the Catholic Church as doctrinally correct through the eighth century AD, and after that time, the Catholic Church fell into error and departed from the teachings of the Bible. Interestingly, I once attended a Baptist church with my husband, where the pastor had us all rise and repeat after him the Nicene Creed.
Latter-day Saints teach that the church organized by Christ fell into general apostacy and eventually ceased to function as his representative body, after the death of the apostles. This event was foretold by prophets and apostles of the Bible. According to Latter-day Saints, the Bible prophesies that God will stretch forth his hand in the last days, restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ in its purity, as it was in the days of the Savior (Acts 3:19-21; Eph 1:10). At issue on the first point of difference is whether the Bible foretells a falling away, or general apostacy of the church organized by Christ to be followed by a restoration (not merely a reformation) of his church in the last days. Numerous passages of scripture prophesy of these events to take place before the Savior’s second coming.
The prophet Amos prophesied of a time when the word of the Lord would be absent from the earth, likening it to a famine. (Amos 8:11-13).
Likewise, the apostle Paul wrote to the saints of Thessalonia concerning a general falling away, or apostacy of the church before the second coming of the Lord.
“Now we beseech you, brethren…that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first”. (2 Thes 2:1-3; 5)
Paul’s understanding of an approaching apostacy was primarily the product of inspiration, but also personal observation. The early church was experiencing significant problems maintaining correct doctrine and adhering to approved practices. At times, he seemed amazed by how rapidly the apostacy of the church was advancing despite the energetic efforts of inspired leaders.
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ”. (Gal 6-7) Paul confided to local leaders in Ephesus that apostacy and dissension would soon enter into their congregation, some of it at the hands of local leaders:
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them (Acts 20:28-30)
The church in Ephesus was not the exception, but a general pattern among the congregations of believers in Paul’s day. His first letter to the Corinthians was written in response to division and dissention among the saints in that location. (1 Cor 1:10-13; 3:3-4; 15:12). Also, the saints in Asia appear to have rejected Paul, the Lord’s anointed. To Timothy, his dear friend in the gospel, Paul writes, “This though knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me (2 Tim 1:15).
Paul’s rejection foreshadowed a creeping apostacy among the seven churches in Asia as note by John the Revelator. Ephesus and Sardis were called to repentance (Rev 2:5, 3:3). The works of Satan were evidenced at Smyrna, Pergamos and Philadelphia (Rev 2:9; 3:9; 13-14). False teachers spreading seductive doctrines were leading many astray in Thyatira (Rev. 2:20-22). The church of the Laodiceans received the rebuke “…..So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth (Rev 3:15-16)
Paul warned that these conditions and worse would envelop the church before the second coming of Christ (2 Tim 3:1,2,5,7) (2 Tim 4:3-4).
I think you will have the opportunity to go to the C. kingdom! “It ain’t over til it’s over.” You aren’t finished yet, Pastor Jeff. I think us “saints” are in for some mighty big surprises, both good and some not so good. My personal opinion is your day will come.
Thanks for being super open to all this. It is fun you are having these experiences. Every time I watch your videos I am struck by phrases such as “This didn’t resonate with my” “It was hard for me to accept” “Evangelicals believe this interpretation “ etc.
A strong tenant that Latter Day Saints constantly preach is the need to have God tell us what is correct or not. My ways are not yours and my thoughts are not your thoughts. Ask in faith and the truth will be made known.
While educational week certainly has many historical accounts and speculations and can certainly begin to deviate into opinion at the core it doesn’t really matter what we believe or think. What is the actual truth? Faithful prayer while be willing to accept whatever God’s answer has to be the principle way we come to know if a truth is real or not. So the real question is what God confirmed to you as true. Looking forward to hearing that journey.
I have faith as a Latter Day Saint that God is our father and loves us all and knows us all. He will let us end up where we belong.
@@marilyntrimble5386 …God decides? Or we receive our kingdom based on the ordinances we’ve done?
@@BGCflyer both
@@nateshepardson …I think God expects us to make choices, but ultimately, God is the judge and has the final say.
Not sure why the teacher had to make sure we know that Jesus is #1. Its never been a question..
There are many mainstream Christianity, who believe we worship Joseph Smith. There are students at BYU who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which I believe the professor was directing the information to. Have a great day.
I think an important thing for Latter-Day Saints to remember when looking at any theological discussion with a Christian of a different faith is: we are different and supposed to be.
We love common ground, and community with others who share many similar values, particularly in a world that is increasingly turning from a belief in any God other than self, but, we are not just another sect. We are different and meant to be.
This is rooted in that we believe God still reveals.
This is why the critique that our beliefs are not "biblical" doesn't exactly land. We want to hold to what is true, of course, but we are gratefully the recipient of so much more He has revealed that had provided us with clarity. We also know He will reveal more to help us clarify further as we grow closer to Him.
Latter-Day Saints should be so grateful to not always be in step with "mainstream Christianity".
Thank you for your honesty and sincerity and vulnerability. You often address questions I have about my own religious beliefs and it helps me strengthen my faith. I sincerely appreciate all you do! Thank you for being so respectful and kind. Thank you being brave to respectfully wrestle with difficult doctrine.
Just a comment about who gets the opportunity for the Celestial Kingdom and who does not.
Temple proxy work can be performed for anyone, even if they rejected the LDS Church when alive. Pres Nelson has expressed a personal view that he is unsure what constitutes a valid opportunity to accept in this life and is glad it is Christ and not him (Pres Nelson) who will make that determination.
I think that God is an inclusivist, and I have heard temple sealers say that most will accept the ordinances done on their behalf. I believe that God has cleverly worked out a system in which nearly everyone is saved and exalted. He and his son did the hard part in order to bring us all home.
@@BobSmith-lb9nc That's a lovely thought but how do you interpret Jesus saying wide is the gate to destruction and many go there in, but narrow is the way to eternal live and few there be that find it?
@@stephtimms1776everyone enters the gates to destruction in this life. It’s everyone’s job to eventually find the way to be saved from it.
Nice thought but God already sent a third of his children to outer darkness, I wont be surprised if another 3rd goes terrestrial. But something may be revealed we dont know about
@@stephtimms1776 Certainly true of folks in this life. Luckily for us, God cleverly arranged for his son to pay the price, and then to allow everyone to opt in after death by proxy. God loves all his children, and provided a brilliant Plan of Salvation.
I'm always grateful to remember that while its fun to talk about the distinction between the two higher kingdoms of glory and try and draw a line between who will and wont go where, in the end the Father will be the final say and will know exactly where we all landed. Perfect judgement means peace of mind for me and everyone else.
I remember one of my protestant friends told me one day that a coworker we have that is a wonderful person and does a lot of good and serves others feeds the poor he lives a Christlike life but yet she said to me it’s too bad he’s got a burn in hell because he has an accepted Jesus. That just made me realize that a loving heavenly father would not let a Christ like individual just burn in hell because he had not accepted Jesus he would have another chance through baptisms for TheDead or ordinances or he could go to may be a kingdom that is not bad but just not in the presence of the Lord. That makes so much more sense to me than burning people at Hell that are wonderfully good people.
It isn't that a just and loving God would "let" a Christ like individual burn in hell. It is that by the very nature of God and Heaven, without acceptance of the atoning death of Christ and propitiation of our sins, we aren't able to be in Heaven. The Bible is quite clear. One must accept Christ's sacrifice in one's stead to be able to go to Heaven.
@@brushylake4606 so what about a person who was never taught the gospel say from a native tribe in the deep jungle and when they die are they gonna have another chance to accept Christ in the next life or are they just doomed forever?
@@jamesbroughton7870 First and most importantly, that isn't my role, to judge that native. I trust God that His judgements are fair and He has a way to determine the heart of those who have never been exposed to the gospel.
Having said that, I reiterate my statement that God doesn't put us in Hell. Our own recalcitrant hearts are what puts us in Hell. Our nature bends towards sin.
Romans 3:10 "There is no one righteous, not even one;"
Romans 3:23 "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
But God has given all of us a way out.
Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
What about those who have not heard the gospels?
Romans 10:14 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"
So God has provided for those who have never heard. How? I don't know, that's for Him.
So, there are no "good" people. We are all condemned by our own hearts and actions. Unless you have NEVER sinned, you fall short of the glory of God. All have sinned and that is why God provided us a sinless, perfect sacrifice in whose death and resurrection we can find propitiation. I have a friend who is Muslim. I love him and I gently tell him of Christ. At some point, either he is intrigued and searches or closes his heart. All I can do is what God commanded me, to tell him. Does he get a "last chance"? I don't know. I trust God.
So, I can't answer your question. I do know that no one in the West really has an excuse.
Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for your perspectives. I really like your channel.
Christ himself would say that the Church restored by Him IS the mainstream Church. However the bulk or mainstream of society will not believe it. He commanded its restoration at the direction of our Heavenly Father.
Nothing has “crept in”. It is all very much carefully calculated for our exaltation.
Ultimately anyone who encounters the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must make a choice. Once the gospel is presented to any human he can no longer remain on neutral ground.
This is the Church of Jesus Christ and as we raised our arms to the square in the premortal world and covenanted to follow Christ into the Church and kingdom of God if we found it, we had better take it very seriously. It is an urgent matter that we do.
Dear Jeff, Thank you for doing what you do. I love you. I wish we were neighbors. I am a non-trinitarian, restorationist Christian, with much in common with my Evangelical Christian friends, we have a lot to share as we follow our Savior Jesus Christ.
You received the gospel and one day will receive the “FULLNESS“ of the gospel.
I really enjoyed this perspective. Thank you for sharing your side of this experience.
Gee, an evangelical pastor disagrees with us! Imagine that!I appreciate the pastor’s good will and respectful attitude. But I can’t really get too interested in what an evangelical thinks of our doctrine and beliefs. The Restoration began with the statement by the Savior that there had been a vast apostasy. Why would I care to measure the Church and Restoration by a false standard? He’s a nice guy but his opinion doesn’t really matter to me.
Matthew 16 Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.
It's okay not to be interested, but I absolutely love what he's doing. LDS leadership partners with leaders of other faiths all the time to foster togetherness and understanding. I absolutely love it. The time will come when all God-fearing people will need to stand united against the darts and flaming arrows of the adversary. Be it Christian, Muslim or Jew, we shall stand united as the few.
Thank you for your respectful treatment of this content! Much love
Did the class talk about JS treasure seeking and dubious money schemes
Your refinement of this channel is beautiful, the love and respect for and between Christians coming from different directions is enriching to watch.
We all believe Christ will be returning soon. And we can settle the differences by asking Him directly. I believe you're purified enough to be there, I hope I am too. Should be soon! Thanks brother !
On the terrestrial kingdom verdict, while he is correct generally, we are not the judge. That said, the terrestrial kingdom is what evangelicals believe as heaven. I would imagine that is where most of them will be the most comfortable. Its the law that they choose to live. Dallin Oaks has given talks on this recently if you want to know more.
As an evangelical I would disagree with you. We believe we will live in the eternal presence of the triune God so that would be the lds celestial kingdom.
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 we believe that the terrestrial kingdom is a place within the presence of Jesus so if we are correct, a person who rejected the fulness would still live eternally with jesus but not the father. This is by no means a judgement of any other Christian who doesn't now accept our faith. It's only up to jesus where everyone goes. We just have our ideas what heaven will look like outlined more clearly. These of course are just a mortal explanation of eternal reality
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 howdy, I certainly don't want to tell an evangelical what they believe. When they do that to me, they are almost always wrong. Even Jeff here still messes it up, and he is pretty good. My understanding is that their belief was that they are more like angels in heaven, and earthly family ties (i.e. marriage) do not fully remain. That would be similar to the terrestrial kingdom (hence my comment). We have different beliefs on the trinity, but we do believe that people in the terrestrial kingdom will receive the presence of the son, but not the fulness of the father.
All of that said, I would caution any of us to not assume anything. God is good. He loves us, and he wants to give us great gifts. Any time Jesus started a story with..."the kingdom of heaven is like," it was followed by something that sounded full of grace.
In my understanding the difference between evangelical and LDS legalism is that the evangelical church does not require participation in various practices such as tithing, baptism, underclothing and marriage in order to have the assurance of living forever in God's presence. Certain denominations may have their own legalisms but because we believe Jesus paid our sin debt completely the behaviors don't involve assurance of salvation, such as devotions every morning, dressing a certain way, tithing, baptism by immersion, etc. From my LDS friends I would say they feel more pressure to conform and accept every request made of them rather than consider if it's really the holy Spirit asking or the church leadership, which are not the same thing in a healthy evangelical church.
@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 hi Janet, there is a lot to unpack there. More than can be done in a comments section. I would respectfully say that your understanding is very incomplete.
Salvation is not the same as exaltation. Jeff has a lot of videos where he gets close to explaining this, but he still gets our view of faith/works wrong for salvation. Also, to fully understand what we believe on this, you would need to know how we view Temple work and the work that is done in the millennium.
Sorry that I kept this high level. How about this: we beleive (i) that the law of tithing is a commandment, (ii) we need to keep the commandments, and (iii) we are not saved by obeying the law of tithing.
I love BYU Education Week! Thanks for sharing your experience with us! 😊
First, I love the conversations. Now I ask this question based on the claim a restoration had to take place. Since there are so many sects in Christianity why us there protestantism exists? Why are we, who claim to be Christian, not Catholic? or Lutheran, or Calvinist, or Baptist, Methodist, etc. Why are those all accepted except for a group that says, Christianity is so fragmented that a restoration has ti happen to get us back to what Christ taught? This is why I an a member, with no animosity, it's all about learning.
Thans for having this cannel, I was baptized when I was young and followed the church until my mom passed away and then I dropped out of it. I have started going again but a little lost but your channel helps me understand a little bit even though you talk about it in LDS and evangelical
I am so sorry for your loss. ⚘️
Jesus Christ said, "Follow me." Jesus is the good Shepherd. Jesus will never let you down.
John 10:27-29
God bless you.
I love your show. I’m so happy that you’re trying to bridge the gap.
I want to say that I am a convert to the LDS church. I do have my great grandparents that were ministers and they did travel to the south so I know a lot about the Bible and I grew up with the Bible. I also come from a big quaker family that settled to Shenandoah Valley. When I was 16 years old, I actually joined the church. But I can also share one more other thing when I was about five or six years old I had a dream where I would go to school and live where the mountains were not covered with trees because I lived in Virginia and, we had the Appalachian mountains and the Rockies of course are a lot different but I saw them in my dream and I saw that there was a Y on the mountain. I started a little club so all of my friends on Facebook. Remember this. Much later, when I was 12 years old, MU Dad traveled to California and found out there was actually a place in Utah that had a Y on the mountain. He came home and gave me a picture of the University with that Y on the mountain, so that is true. But another thing that I wanted to share with you that is different from what we were taught before about the plan of salvation. I know that you guys know about a pre-existence, and there was a war in heaven. At least I was taught about this when I used to be southern Baptist and I also went to the Methodist Church with my other grandma. We are taught that there came a time when we were in Heaven with Father and had progressed that we saw our father in heaven and he had a temple. A body was his temple, and we did not have this temple, father also knew that in order for us to become like him we had to learn and understand and comprehend good from evil. We can’t read about it in books and comprehend but we had to experience it. Pass through it. And the only way that we were going to be able to do that is that we are sent here And this is Satan‘s world. He is the god of this world. A lot of people think the earth and all things that are tangible is Satans. It is not. For it was sent with us as a gift of love. While we are here we were even given weaknesses because Satan wouldn’t have a chance against us if we came as is. So we followed our Saviors plan and we knew that through these weaknesses, we would come to understand the fall of Adam and Eve or the greater weakness and through this we comprehend good and evil so that one day we may stand with our father in heaven, and say that we no longer will look upon any sin with the least degree of allowance. For all sin, no matter how great or small leads to destruction. Father, all knowing has seen all the way into the future unto the very end of our world. So he knew that when he sent Adam and Eve, they were going to make a choice and at some point they were going to fall and this plan was set up in the pre existence. We knew that our savior would pay for the price. So we knew in order to become like our father. This is something that had to be done. Of course we are told that this would happen. That’s why the prophets told us all throughout the Old Testament and that’s why it was prophesied in the Old Testament. Another thing that we believe in that progression never ends. The father will always stand, and with our savior will always stand with open arms and they do not deny us. It is us that will deny them. We should’ve learned this as earthly parents. We have children that we want to help and no matter how hard we stand there with open arms sometimes they think they know better than we, and they will refuse our help. In coming here, we are learning to be like our father in heaven. Would we want to stop their progression? Absolutely not. Therefore, we cannot be greater than father. We are learning to pass through evil, and to understand it, comprehend it to forsake it and to overcome it, so the atonement of Christ, which allows us to return back to our father in heaven. In the Scriptures, the apostle Paul is talking about baptisms for the dead. How do you guys explain that in your religion? Also, I heard you say that you no longer believe in temples. I can testify that in the pre-existence there were Temples in Heaven and also in revelations we see several times John talking about the last days and that several times he mentions about the temples in heaven. How do you explain the temples in heaven that are mentioned for the last days in Revelations? I don’t think a lot of members of the LDS church know this, but it is through the temples in heaven that we send from our father‘s prescence to earth, and in the last days, it is through the temples of heaven that we are able to return to our father in heaven. Not everyone upon the earth will have the opportunity to have the fullness of the gospel or to learn about Jesus Christ so there has to be a way. If you go back and look at some of the other ancient writings, the Dead sea scrolls and other writings, you will see that they mention the baptisms for the dead for these were ordinances that they were practicing back then. It is mentioned in the Bible as well. 1 Peter 4:6 mentions about them teaching to those that are dead. Why? How did that happen? And why teach them if they can no longer get baptized? Also 1 Corinthians 15:29 I would suggest to read from the King James version of the Bible. I know there’s a lot of newer Bibles out there that have translated even further which we don’t believe in using them because we believe that it again takes away precious truths. We know that The king James himself had many of the books and words that were already taken away. And father, knowing that this is going to happen and will not interfere with our free agency don’t you think that he would’ve established a good back up plan? Of course he did. And that’s why he had another of his children right also but this time the book was buried into the Earth so it may be kept pure. That no man by the power of Satan would take away its precious truce to try to confuse men we believe in the Bible as far as it’s translated correctly. But we also believe in the book of Mormon that is the second witness to the Bible. Ezekiel 37 matches two sticks which are two books that will testify God. Have you figured out what those two books are. What is the stick of Judah, which is written by the Jews the other other is the stick of Ephraim or Joseph. Joseph Smith Junior is a descendent of Joseph from the house of Ephraim. But he did not write this book and it was impossible and it’s been proven take time and just pray and ask father. Is the book of Mormon the word of God also. I have always wondered if you have prayed and ask, father and heaven with real sincerity as James 15 teaches us to do in the Bible, if the book of Mormon is also a second testament, and also the word of God if it was sealed, and it, Joseph Smith was a prophet? If you haven’t, I really hope and my prayers are that you will.
You seem like a confused person, who rambles through both LDS and Orthodox Biblical Christian doctrine and meld them together, when they are incompatible. For instance you talk about Sin. In LDS doctrine there is no such thing as Original Sin. That is why even people that are unrepentant sinners and homosexuals are allowed entry into the telestial kingdom, according to LDS doctrine. That is a direct contradiction to the word of God, in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 6:9&10.
Might be good to trim down your lengthy comments! But thanks for sharing ♥️
This is not true. Followers of Jesus Christ can and will be in the Celestial Kingdom, but without temple ordinances and covenants, exhalation is not possible.
My sister in Christ...paragraph breaks...please use paragraph breaks.
@@intheknow9794 That's a Joseph Smith fairy tale, that's nowhere in the Holy Bible.
I really appreciate the respect and open mindedness you grant The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Thank you!! I think this series is inspired. I also believe the baptism of Christ was a beautiful example of the need for EVERY one of God’s children to perform the ordinances necessary to return to the presence of God. Christ didn’t have just anyone baptize him, He went to John the Baptist because he had been given authority from God to baptize people into the church of Christ at that time. I agree wholeheartedly that we need do nothing to receive God’s love. He bestows it in abundance regardless of our behavior and I am infinitely grateful for that. However He is both merciful and just which means there must be some laws to obey or there would be no need for justice and those laws must also be attached to consequences or they would have no worth.
As LDS we don't use the word: "Earn" our way into heaven.
Instead we say “qualify”
I am one of Jesus' Latter Day Saints, and I love what you saying man. Thank you for learning about us with such great love and respect!
I’m surprised how many commenters think the instructor was condemning Jeff personally to the Terrestrial Kingdom. It was obviously an academic hypothetical application based on what is taught in section 76.
I am so grateful to see people starting to research and share their learnings about our church without bias. I've seen a lot of videos where people say they researched the church or have left the church and share blatant misinformation. It's so refreshing to see you sharing your findings honestly.
You should have conversation with Tyler Griffen on the plan of redemption. He has given a much better view of the plan with the focus on Christ's important role of redeeming us from physical and spiritual death.
From an LDS thankyou for your insights. I really enjoy what you have say and respect the differences. I once had a friend with who was of a different faith and she said that she could never be LDS because was it too hard! We are still great friends but I know what she means. LDS believe in coming to Christ through covenants as was done in the Bible and because we believe that our church is the restored gospel means we have the same organisation. Prophet, apostles etc which then means we believe in modern revelation. I know other faiths don't believe in a living prophet but my common sense and experience as a parent tells me that just as I would not leave my child without guidance at the worst time of their lives, neither will God in these tumultuous days before he comes again. I think just on that point I would have joined the LDS church if were not a member! This is a very organised church but remember that God created this beautiful world for us to inhabit. He did it in an organised fashion. Not haphazard. There was a plan, of that I'm sure. Stands to reason that his gospel is also organised and planned too.
The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15.
Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest, and King. Hebrews 1
In the Bible, God makes covenants with people. In the New Testament, the New Covenant, God promises to freely forgive our sins, freely save us, and grant us the gift 🎁 of eternal life.
Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death, but the gift 🎁 of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
No need to earn forgiveness.
I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Even exaltation is free.
Matthew 23:12 He that humbles himself shall be exalted.
For a moment I was worried that he was going to give his dishonest take, but I read the title more closely and was reassured.
I attended the LSD Church with a friend for a year. I attend the ward’s Sunday Services (Sacrament meeting), Sunday school classes and priesthood meeting for a year. I found that the Mormon theology, doctrine and scripture all had the signs of a cult. The teaching of salvation by works drove one of my friends to suicide. His note “I can live up to the standards demanded of me”.
1) Another Jesus - 2 Cor. 11:4 & Mat. 24:24 & 1 Cor 1:17-18 & Col 1:20, (LDS Reject the deity of Jesus and the message of the cross, Jesus is created being, not God in the flesh as John 1:1 teaches, Jesus became a god)
2) Non-Biblical Source of Authority. Another Gospel Gal 1:6 Acts 17:11, 2Tim3:16 ( LDS has above the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.) Book of Mormon does not teach LDS Doctrine, LDS Doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants.
3) Salvation by works. Rom 11:6, Gal 2:21, Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8 (LDS Reject salvation by grace, a free gift given by God, by God thru faith in Jesus Christ) Saved by grace after all we can do” is a phrase from the Book of Mormon verse 2 Nephi 25:23. This is LDS Doctrine grace plus works is not Grace.
4) Closed group with no fellowship (accountability) with other like minded groups. Eph 5:21 & 1 Cor 1:12 & Col 1:24. (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.)
5) Strong dominating leader (-ship) who has unquestionable authority over the group. 2 Cor 11:13-14 1Tim6:3 2 Peter 2:1 1 John 4:1, The J. Smith and the living prophet.
6) Group holds: new truths and revelation & all truths and keys. 2Cor 4:2, Reject Historical Christianity: Salvation by grace and forgives, one God, salvation at the Cross of Jesus.
7) New writings that proclaim and interpret these new truths. Rev 22:18 (Bible Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon and POGP.)
8) Only the group is able to act and speak in the name of God. 1 Cor1 4:36. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth.
8) Changing Theology-God Is 43:10-11, Malachi 3:6. Hebrews 6:17, Black were bad now OK, polygamy was to godhood for men, now bad and on and on.
9) Non-Biblical Teaching on the Nature of God Rom 1:22,23 Jude 1:4 ( humanize God, God was once an man and become God, God as body, Jesus became a god)
10) No one having joined can freely leave. (excommunication or trial is held.) 2 Corinthians 3:17. You can not just have your name remove, there will be a excommunication trial. You can not ask for letter of transfer to another churches, like Christian church do.)
11) False Prophecy Mat 24:11, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1 (Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri, much of Doctrine & Covenants Section 11, Doctrine & Covenants 114:1, and more)
12) Men can become gods. Those who live worthy to become gods D&C 132:20. This is the goal of the Temple work.
13) Simple question are answered with long evasive statements. Matt 5:37
14) The reputation of the group is more important that any one individual. (people are sacrificed) Romans 12:10 Romans 13:8 1 Peter 3:8
14) Double Talk - Statements contradict themselves Rom16:18 1Tim1:6 Jam1:8, Like: LDS believe in grace, but do not believe in Salvation by Grace.
I love education week. I love that you went to it. I have Evangelical friends that I learn from all the time. I hope we can learn from each other. God is good and he definitely loves all who love him and he will not deny any blessing that you desire to have as long as you serve him and seek for those blessings. Some come early and other blessings come late but they do come as we seek the goodness of God in our lives and obey him. This I believe with all my heart as I have come to know the goodness of God in my life.
When I was an active LDS member, I remember feeling so much pressure to do everything required for celestial glory. It caused me a lot of anxiety and stress. I was converted to the rules, structure, culture, and community. After leaving and becoming a born again Christian, it was transformative to have a new relationship with my Savior. The simplicity of the gospel in the New Testament has brought me so much peace and joy. We attend church, Bible study, and activities with our non-denominational church because we love the Lord- not because it feels like a requirement. I know not all LDS members feel like I did when I was active member- and I know many have a very strong faith in Christ. But this was my experience. I have found Pastor Jeff’s exploration of the LDS faith very relatable and helpful on my faith journey!
So sad that you felt that way, but you are in an organization that has good lessons and maybe does some charity work and that is about it. You are giving up the whole purpose of God, which is for his children to have the same kind of life he has - exaltation and the continuation of lives. You are giving up way to much for a feel good church.
@@eileenpierce1023"Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Matthew 12:23
He that humbles himself shall be exalted.
Luke 14:11 He that humbles himself shall be exalted.
I am so sad that you were taught within your LDS circle that there are things you "need to do". In my LDS experience, there are no requirements for Celestial Glory, for the Grace of Jesus paid for that. The only requirement, if you call it that, is to be appreciative of Gods gift by loving God and loving People the best we can.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Those scriptures are very good and true, but being born again means accepting baptism. I assume you are born again Christian. The LDS Church has a much broader view of heaven than born again Christian’s. We believe that we have the potential to be like God and Christ and be joint heirs with Christ. Being joint heirs means we will have the same type of life that God has, meaning we can become like God, and have all that he has.
@@eileenpierce1023 I feel that I have gained so much more now. My life no longer revolves around a church/organization- that is just an added bonus to worship with fellow believers. My life now is about my relationship with Jesus Christ. Prayer, study, loving others, and keeping God’s commandments are natural because I have true conversion through Jesus Christ. The New Testament says very little about exaltation- but rather salvation through Jesus Christ. It is no work of our own. I do understand what you are saying regarding exaltation-having been LDS, and I respect that. But that is not a belief I no longer hold.
As an exmo with 1 foot back into the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, I have really enjoyed watching your program Jeff, and I resonate with pretty much everything you’re saying, keep up the good work, and God bless us all! ❤️🙏
Christ restored his church. Joseph Smith was chosen to represent the Savior, just like Moses. The great I Am freed the children of Isreal and led them to the land given to Abraham by God; similarly Christ restored his church, Joseph Smith played an important role, but it was all completed under the direct direction and control of the Savior, Jesus the Christ.
I am with others on the idea that we will all recieve what we are capable of understanding. You have proven yourself able to learn, and I have no problem thining that you will recieve what you don't currently fully understand.
Degrees of glory are for our benefit.
Would a gangster be comfortable surrounded by saints?
Would a saint be comfortable around robbers and r*ists.? No.
The degrees of glory ensure people can and will receive the maximum degree of glory, light, and truth, that they can handle and be comfortable with.
We will be surrounded by people like us. With similar interests and morals.
There will be no sin in heaven. None.
We will all have the same 'morals.'
@@jlewis8145 we are not robots now, nor will we be there… we have agency now and will then, we just won’t have Satans influence like we do now on earth
@@jlewis8145 ok. But people’s comfort level to light and glory will be different. At least for lds theology. We don’t believe in hell. At least not in the classical sense
@@germanmarine6582 Jesus warned of hell more than anyone else. Luke 16- The rich man was already in conscious torment.
Revelation 21:8 All liars will have their part in the lake which burns with fire.
Jesus Christ doesn't follow the teachings of the LDS church.
This is really awesome Jeff. I was just thinking how I would feel going to a protestant education week and the very thought gave me anxiety. I would feel like a fish out of water! I doubt I would be brave enough to go. And yet you did! That's really special that you have that courage and determination to learn.
i don’t know if i’m allowed to attend education week as a byu student, but I would love to attend a class taught by you!
Yes, anyone can attend education week.
Jeff, I am always so impressed with how respectful you are in your videos. Plus, your wife is adorable!
My understanding of the criteria to be exalted to celestial glory is that you A) have all saving ordinances preformed, either by proxy or in the flesh, and B) are diligent in the testimony of Jesus Christ, even until the end. With that in mind, I see no reason you or many other mainstream Christians couldn't become exalted. Of course, we actually don't know who will and who won't recieve celestial glory, and it's not any of our places to judge others in that way. We simply will have to wait and see in many cases, but I know that God will take us as far as he can.
I just adore you and your openness to learning and sharing all that you can about our faith, including all the things that resonate with you and what doesn't yet. I find it all very helpful as I interact with others of different faiths as well. I hope you get asked to speak at Education Week too :)
I for one would love to see some long form videos where you dive deeper into your experiences and thoughts as you explore the teachings and doctrines of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I know a lot of people, including myself, do a lot of traveling and commuting and would love to listen to these long format videos.
Just a thought.
big agree!
Especially on the canonized first vision account in Joseph Smith's History.
Jeff has poste a lot of long form videos on his Hello Saints channel.
RE: Who enters the Celestial Kingdom?
Great video. In LDS doctrine, it's God that decides whether someone is worthy to receive this degree of heaven, as it is in other Christian faiths, and many other religions. 1) it's not up to someone, or some rule, to decide whether you had an "opportunity", and whether you are worthy. These are descriptions from God's perspective, no person can determine where someone will end up, because each of our experiences are unique. 2) by their own admission many latter-day saints will not meet these standards, and many non-latter day saints will meet God's standards. 3) The ordinances in the temple (like baptisms), are because there is something specific to having the combination of a physical and spiritual body, that means these ordinances can't be done in the next life if someone accepts God's plan later. This is a sort of fairness backup. So from an LDS perspective they're just making it possible, that if someone discovers in the next life what God wanted them to know, that they have a means to achieve eternal salvation like anyone else.
It's never exclusive to Mormons/Members of the Church of Jesus Christ. Because as mentioned, many LDS church members will not qualify, and many good people who are not members will qualify. From an LDS perspective, the ordinances are just there because there are some things that can't be done/learned/experienced without a physical body, and they're also important for the salvation of the person doing the ordinance (e.g., it's one way to do something for someone else who has passed away, and in that sense it's kind of a beautiful practice. It's not just about the recipient of the ordinance, who would presumably receive it, at least in part, after they died.)
RE: What is Salvation from an LDS perspective, and what are these "Degrees of Glory" or "Degrees of Heaven"?
In LDS doctrine, the descriptions of even the Telestial Kingdom are in line with, or basically descriptions of "Heaven" from other faiths (i.e., unimaginably wonderful, peaceful, etc.) So in this sense, even in LDS doctrine, Christ and God have 'saved' everyone through grace. Everyone who made it to this existence gets a resurrected body eventually. Everyone makes it to heaven (telestial, terrestrial, celestial), the only exception being those who have received God's gospel in its 'fullness' and still choose to go against it. These are people who have been given incredible truths, fully know it's the truth, and decide to go against it and willfully follow Satan. In other words, almost no one in all of existence.
Even "thieves and murderers" can make it to heaven through God's and Christ's grace.
Although their view is a little different, the Orthodox have a very similar concept of salvation as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They call it theosis and it is not just part of salvation, but the point of it.
Yes, some call it apotheosis, and it was a key part of early Christianity.
…In what way are Orthodox similar to LDS in salvation?
@@BobSmith-lb9nc …can you be a little more specific? Do they believe in 3 degrees of Glory?
That’s unfortunately not true.
Glory to Jesus Christ!🙏☦️❤️
2nd witness - the Orthodox Church indeed teaches a doctrine of divinization that is similar, but not identical to LDS doctrine. Google theosis +Greek +Orthodox. There are also many quotes from the First Century church Fathers stating that Christ was god who became man so that we can become gods.
I would love to hear you at BYU Education Week. Haven't been in years (moved south) but I'd probably go again if I knew you were speaking!
My wife and I agree that the telestrial kingdom is better suited to us and our family as most will be there. We really have decided not to strive for a higher kingdom or a higher degree of glory within the celestial kingdom as we would be separated from the vast majority of our family and friends. We don’t judge, it’s whatever you choose.
As a Christian, I'm curious, so does the type of relationship you have with God factor in to your decision? Or isn't that relationship even affected by what kingdom you're in, and how can the celestial kingdom be the best if you feel like you are missing out on something?
@@valeried7210 no. We just read the definitions of the three kingdoms in D and C and chose the one that reflects the most inclusive kingdom for our family and friends which are mostly not LDS or not religious but wonderful people. It seems to be the most inclusive kingdom for us.
Why Telestial and not Terrestrial?
@@Zeett09doesn't it strike you as odd that you believe you can judge where you'll be in the afterlife based on your own desires? Rather than God deciding? (I guess I don't know what members believe about Jesus being the judge at his second coming )
@@valeried7210 LDS believe you choose what Kingdom based on choices made either on earth now or upon death in the spirit world. In our case the telestial is the best choice for my family which is mostly not religious.
On the question of celestial or terrestrial glory, the answer is found in Doctrine and Covenants 88:32. Pastor Jeff will "enjoy that which [he] is willing to receive..." . Only he can decide that, and Jesus, knowing his heart and soul, will be a perfect judge.
Love what you’re doing! Thank you for bringing us Christian’s together 🙏🏻
As a solid LDS member, I really like your videos and honest perspective. God bless!
Pastor Jeff! It was cool meeting you in person - you probably don’t remember me but me and my buddies took a pic with you after Bro Francom’s lecture one day!
Enjoyed the discussion. I think we are striving to have God's 'trust' rather than just be loved.- God loves all his children. Discipleship doesn't automatically come from acknowledging Christ or accessing his Grace, it requires something of us. Fundamentally, 'Mormonism'' is a developmental theology with high view of human potential.
The way someone explained it to me once, is that the Latter-day Saint view of the Terrestrial kingdom, is very similar to the evangelical view of Heaven. Basically, the Latter-day saints are saying that the evangelical view of heaven, and how to get there, is correct but that there is something more. The more being the celestial kingdom and exaltation.
Regardless of whether you entirely agree with our beliefs, I truly appreciate the respect you show for us, thank you for that!
My friend attended BTU Education Week a few years ago. He was impressed with Brad Wilcox and some other BYU professors.
Pastor Jeff knows a lot of the church now!!
That's awesome!!
I’ve been reflecting on this post for several days, and I want to express my appreciation for the thoughtful and balanced way you present these videos. I can certainly understand why some of what you encountered at Education Week might have been unsettling for you. While I can’t say that everything taught at Education Week is absolute truth, I do believe that we are all human and that no one fully understands “the meaning of all things” (1 Nephi 11:17)-not even prophets. We are all continually learning. I have faith in God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. I believe the Book of Mormon is a true companion to the Bible, guiding us closer to the Savior. I trust that God is just, and that by living in harmony with the Spirit and following its promptings, we will be blessed. I see you as an amazing human being, and I believe that your efforts are meaningful. I feel incredibly blessed to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I genuinely believe that you will also be blessed for the good you are doing in the world.
Until the end of the time of testing when the Celestial doors are closed, The opportunity for Eternal Life is open to all ❤
Pastor Jeff, Thank you for checking out BYU Education Week and sharing your thoughts. Fortunately, we will each be judged by a kind and loving Heavenly Father who will consider the intentions of our heart, the knowledge we have and how we treat our fellow brothers and sisters. Man judges based on the outside. God Judges based on the inside :-) You are in my prayers that the Lord will guide and care for you and your family. Thanks again!! Please keep learning, sharing and helping others. With God’s grace and our best efforts, much good will be shared by all! :-)
Thank you Pastor Jeff for your openness in exploring our faith. I enjoy visiting your site often. I am coming out from California to attend General conference coming up here in October. My sister and I are going to attempt to get a standby bypass to the Sunday morning session. On Saturday the day before I will be with friends in Taylorsville viewing both morning and afternoon sessions. Back to Sunday afternoon session my sister and I will be visiting with some friends in the Ogden area to watch conference.
Again my thanks for your honesty and your openness, you're a great guy and appreciate you very much.
I think another way of looking at faith and works would be that our works and our obedience to God's commandments show God how much WE love HIM. God absolutely loves us no matter what, but I believe we unlock more blessings from those works and that obedience, because we show God we're aligning our will with His. Malachi 3:10 speaks to this.
The degrees of Glory just make sense, you are rewarded for your good works. Someone who serves God and does great works most of their life should not dwell with someone who did no good works and caused others misery most of their life.
Follow God’s commandments, be baptized and repent are the basics we as Christians should be helping everyone towards.
Wow! 👏🏼 This is the first time in possibly a long time that I’ve seen your content highlight the extra-Biblical discomfort, at a serious level. I really appreciate it, because I’ve struggled to watch you walk through the Book Of Mormon with guests, and not address the elephant in the room which is that this is all FAR from what God teaches in His Word. Next up - I would love to see you discuss the Closed Cannon with an LDS member/professor!
I have read this several times and have always wondered what exactly in the Book of Mormon you find in conflict with the doctrine in the Bible.
@@Steelblaidd A few examples. 1) Moroni 10:4-5 praying for truth. This isn't in the Bible. We are to check things out Acts 17:11. We are to test all things and hold on to the good. 2) 1 Nephi 13:26 "for behold they have taken away from the gospel". Matthew 5:18 and 1 Peter 1:23-25 says this isn't possible. 3) 2 Nephi 2:23 says Adam could do no good since he knew no sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says that Jesus also knew no sin, so the Book of Mormon implies that Jesus could do no good. 4) Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, but the Bible says Bethlehem.
@@mikematney3439 I'm sorry to be slow in responding. trying to answer this on my phone was not practical and I haven't had time to get to my personal computer till now.
1) "¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:." Mat 7:7 "If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraided not." James 1:5 Are you really trying to say that God doesn't answer prayers?
2) Both those scriptures are about God fulfilling his word, not men preaching it. Christ himself Prophesied the coming of false Christs (Mat 24:5, 24), and his Apostles were constantly warning of teachers "having a form of Godliness but denying the power (2 Tim 3:5) (acts 20:29, Gal1:6, 3:1, 2 Thes 2:3, 2 Tim 2:18, 4:4) Titus 1:16 2 Pet 3:17) Protestantism is built on the premise that the Catholic Church was preaching wrong doctrine.
3) The two situations are so different your comparison fails. Adam in the garden had no sin to know. Christ, living under the Romans, was surrounded by sin yet never chose it.
4) this isn't even doctrine. "At the land of Jerusalem" is an easy way to point back to the general area where they came from for a people 400 years and a hemisphere away from Israel with no maps. Bethlehem is 6 miles from the Temple Mount. When I was in Argentina I told people I was from the Houston Area because they could have an idea where that was without a map even though I lived an hour's drive south.
If this is the strongest objection you have you are straining at gnats. If not why didn't you lead with the strongest?
In my study of the Bible and world history, I'm amazed at God’s attempt to lift his children closer to him. At the beginning of the first four thousand years, I believe the vast majority of people lived a telestial law, so God gave the world a higher law, the 10 commandments, to help people live the terrestrial law. This higher law, over time, and with the help of the Jews, helped prepare the world to receive the celestial law as taught by Jesus Christ. Over the next two thousand years, and thanks to Christian churches, the gospel helped prepare the world for the laws of exaltation that would be taught by Jesus at his second coming. The restored gospel is God’s attempt to prepare the world to live the higher laws of exaltation.This is why the church is building temples at such an unprecedented pace.I am 100% sure that when Christ comes, Pastor Jeff will be among the first to accept the higher law, enter God's temple and receive the saving ordinances of exaltation. He's just that kind of person.
As a person who grew up Mormon. If you want to convince a Mormon that the church is not true treat them with love and kindness. They're hard enough on each other.
Keep growing sir.
Hi Jeff. I like how you mentioned "distilled" experiences with the Church. For me, it "distills" or boils down to whether the Book of Mormon is true. If it is, then Joseph Smith was a prophet and that we have prophets today, who receive clarifications on and reveal doctrine from the Lord. The Book of Mormon TRULY is the keystone of our religion!