Pastor's HONEST Thoughts on Latter-day Saint Temples
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- Опубліковано 30 гру 2023
- Here are my honest reactions about Latter-day Temples after touring three this year.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a similar video I made exploring Latter-day Saint History in Utah: • Pastor REACTS: Latter-...
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What did I miss about temples that I should explore more?
@@Cyber_Cowboy So ridiculous. Not true!
This was never my personal experience, and I have been a temple attendee for many years (including many pre-2004).
This last part of video is not true. The ordinances are not there to enhance your afterlife experience. They are symbolic. If a person receives none they still have the same chance for progression and eternal life as anyone else. That’s a misguided view that I simply do not believe nor was ever taught.
Why are people still listening to this guy? He clearly just wants to lead people away from the church.
Aint true dude@@Cyber_Cowboy
From a Protestant background to now a Latter Day Saint, I feel that Evangelical Protestantism never offered as much fulfillment or clear answers or understanding with regard to salvation and eternity. I have found the temple experience to be of immense added value to my relationship with Jesus Christ now as well as on into the eternities with my family as joint heirs with Christ. I absolutely LOVE that a loving Father in heaven has restored truths back to the earth with regard to vicarious ordinances that can be performed on behalf of those who never knew the gospel of Christ here on earth. What a beautiful gift we’ve been given to take part in the gathering of Israel on both sides of the veil. There is joy experienced that surpasses the understanding of men while we serve in the temple that can not be found anywhere else but in the Lord’s Holy Temple… this is something that I never could experience in the Protestant/Evangelical world. I, and many friends with similar backgrounds will always be grateful for our EP upbringings that prepared us for more light and knowledge and further covenant making in the Lord’s restored church. ❤
Great insightful comment my brother. I thank you.
Perfectly said and I agree
Lol
@@2pink1stink so what's funny? Let me hear yours and then I'll put lol too
@@fskaraoketv lol
❤❤❤Great video, Jeff. Let me expand your understanding here:
The following will address all your questions and concerns you outline in this fascinating video you took time to record and share,
LDS Temples: Proxy work is secondary to temples. The primary reasons are:
1: We gain greater knowledge of the Lord’s purposes and teachings.
2: Power to do all that God wants us to do.
3: We receive divine guidance and protection as we serve the Lord, our families, and others.
4: We increase hope, comfort, and peace.
5: We gain promised blessings now and forever.
All this is outlined in the New Testament but it is more focused. Now, we can do it here on earth OR we can gain this knowledge in the life after. I know this goes against your belief that "works don't save us" and that believing in Christ makes us complete.
Here are the certain covenants with God we make. (remember, none of these covenants are different from what is outlined by Christ or anything else that is in the New Testament These covenants are:
1. Law of Obedience, which includes striving to keep God’s commandments. John 14:15
2. Law of Sacrifice, which means doing all we can to support the Lord’s work and repenting with a broken heart and contrite spirit. Matt. 16:24.
3. Law of the Gospel, which is the higher law that He taught while He was on the earth. (The Sermon on the Mount)
4. Law of Chastity, which means that we have sexual relations only with the person to whom we are legally and lawfully wedded according to God’s law. (1 Thessalonians 4:3 - 4)
5. Law of Consecration, which means dedicating our time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed us to build up Jesus Christ’s Church on earth. (Acts 2:42-47)(Revelation 14:12) (Ephesians 3:10)
The Assembly halls exist in the following temples: The Kirtland Ohio Temple (1836), The Nauvoo Temple (1846), The Logan Utah Temple (1884), The Manti Utah Temple (1888), The Salt Lake Temple (1893), The Los Angeles California Temple (1956), The Washington D.C. Temple (1974), and The Portland Oregon Temple (1989)
I should explain, that temple assembly halls are used for solemn assemblies which are special meetings held in the temple. Meetings are regularly held for general authorities in the Salt Lake Temple. I’ve heard that the church occasionally holds meetings in temple assembly halls for stake presidents or bishops around general conferences and at other times, although I’m not sure how often these meetings are held. One reason to include assembly halls in temples would be to allow for these special meetings. Temple assembly rooms are also occasionally used for temple worker devotionals. These meetings are held about once a year but they don't necessarily have to be held in an assembly hall.
Sacred (Not secret) gatherings in The New Testament: Paul's Visit to Jerusalem (Galatians 1:18-20): Paul's Collection for the Jerusalem Church, Paul's Meetings with Church Leaders (Galatians 2:1-10), Paul's Farewell Address to the Ephesian Elders (Acts 20:17-38) In Mark's Gospel, this pattern of Jesus instructing "secrecy" after a significant revelation about his identity occurs multiple times. The reasons for this secrecy are a matter of scholarly debate. Some suggest that it was a way to control the timing of events, avoid unnecessary political tensions, or fulfill certain aspects of messianic prophecy in a particular order.
"We are most fulfilled in God's presence alone", Not exactly true. Examples are: Corporate Worship and Edification: In 1 Corinthians 14, The Lord's Supper: In 1 Corinthians 11:17. Unity in Diversity:In Ephesians 4:1-16, Order in Gatherings: In 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, Mutual Care and Support: In Galatians 6:2, Eternal marriage in the New Testament: Matthew 19:6 (NIV): "
"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."
"The need for temples is a hard sell in mainstream Christianity" Temples were a center for the coming of the Messiah(Christ), Temples today are a center for that Christ did come and serve for purposes as explained above. As a Latter-Day Saint, I bear witness that they do just that.
Yes, we will continue to progress in the afterlife. Yes, this is outlined in Revelations 21:We will progress with The New Heaven and New Earth, The New Jerusalem, The River of Life And keep in mind, the Book of Revelation was NOT the last book penned by the Prophets.
"Eternal Rest" Nowhere in the New Testament is there a reward of eternal rest. To be honest, does eternal rest sound appealing at all? Millions of years of resting with no learning? NowI know we rest from our "earthly journey", and we find rest and peace in Christ, however, John 16:12-13 (NIV): "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." 1 Corinthians 13:12 (NIV): "For now, we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
Well, which is it? Eternal rest or, as you put it "exciting and adventurous."? Can it be both? Yes!
Rest is not paradise. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NIV): Paul wrote of paradise "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body, I do not know-God knows. And I know that this man-whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, but God knows-was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell."And so did John in Revelation 2:7 (NIV): "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."
And lastly, Jeff, you constantly mention that the tearing of the veil as a symbol of direct access to God. What you forget, is that inside the temple there were two veils, not just one. The first veil separated the Holy Place from the outer court, and the second veil separated the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. The Holy of Holies was the innermost and most sacred area of the temple. Hebrews 9: 1Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all" (also Exodus 26:31-33). "At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." Matthew 27:51. The Gospel point to just one veil being torn. We should assume it was the first veil that separated the Holy Place from the outer court that was torn, allowing all to access the second veil. As LDS, we believe the veil in all LDS temples represents the 2nd veil which leads to our Celestial Room.
Again, thank you so much, Jeff, for sharing your thoughts. God Bless. And have a Happy New Year. We look forward to more bi-weekly videos in 2024. Keep up the good work!
Don't forget to hit LIKE if you have read and appreciate this post I was able to type up here on the Sabbath day!!!
Fabulous response! I even learned a few things. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Thank you for clarifying.
@@chhudman Youre welcome. It was an interesting question about the Assembly Halls. My first encounter with an Assbmly hall was in the LA temple. It can accommodate an unprecedented 300 patrons per session. I accidentally hit the top floor when looking for a sealing room to do proxy sealings. I opened a door to t apar to the temple I had no idea it existed! The assembly hall is literally the top 1/3 of the LA temple. Its the size fo a football field with podiums and stands on both ends of the hall. One day I was honored to attend a solemn assembly with my wife with the area presidency. It was amazing. I now take friends, while visiting the LA temple to show off the hall.
Appreciate that you took the time to write this out
Well worded response
Article of faith 11: "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
A tiny bit of expansion: part of the reason for the worthiness prerequisite is that, when we enter temples, we make (as you stated) covenants with God that we will live according to laws He has prescribed, and we believe that infractions of those covenants is a grievous sin. So, if someone were to enter a temple and there covenant to keep a commandment that the individual had no intention of keeping in the first place, or that the individual was not prepared yet to keep, then that person would be set up for failure.
Thanks for your understanding and thoughtful videos. I love how you approach this topic as an evangelical Christian, both in trying to understand the Latter-day Saints with a kind hearted approach, and in sharing your own views so we can better understand what our fellow Christians believe. It also helps us Latter-day Saints to be more understanding and respectful of our fellow Christians. There are wonderful people in all branches of Christianity. Keep up the great work :)
I was convinced when you first began this channel that you really wanted to know what we Latter-day Saints believe, that you wanted to really understand. However at the end of every episode you proceed to negate what you have been taught by trying to teach us your perspective in a way that undermines what we believe and actually know to be true. You bring words like cult and secrecy into your conversation.
I am an English convert who joined the Church 41 years ago at the age of 28 after being led by God to this country and with a lot less exposure to the great and wonderful things that you have been shown.
Wanting to know about the Church is a lot different from wanting to REALLY know whether what you are learning is true. It’s a matter of the heart combined with the head, not just the intellect alone. Intellectualism never converted anyone and in fact puts spiritual growth on hold.
If you understood a fraction of what I have experienced in the past 41 years you would grab this opportunity with both hands. Nay, you would have crawled on your hands and knees to Utah to obtain it.
I know that you don’t believe in the need for temples nor their sealing power, that you don’t believe you need to be with your wife and children eternally and that somehow sacrificing them for a relationship with God is essential. In that case you definitely don’t need the sealing power in temples and if you believe that you don’t need your family in the next life, then you will not have them.
❤❤❤❤❤
Perfectly stated!
Pastor Jeff is an evangelical Christian. He isn't going to preach the LDS gospel. His heart and head tell him something very different than yours does. There are comments like this on every video. It seems LDS folks get so easily offended when their beliefs are challenged or even that Pastor Jeff hasn't converted. I wonder why that is. It seems he is threat because he's learned so much about the LDS religion but doesn't believe it to be true.
@@peaceful525 I am not challenged by his beliefs because I know that what he believes is not enough. Covenants must be made. He has not moved to Utah to investigate the Church but to prove it wrong. A man, any man, who proceeds to correct prophets, is not open to the truth and is skating on thin ice. Humility and teachableness are a requirement of true disciples of Christ.
Yes, Pastor Jeff is making plenty of UA-cam $$ by leading along members of the church hoping to see him convert. He’s not going to..unfortunately, he’s just teasing his followers for profit.
Thank you for your kindness and respect regarding the beliefs of Latter-Day Saints. I had a recent conversation with an Evangelical that was lovely and faith promoting until our differences were brought up ,and then the air became tense and I had a hard time getting a word in edge wise. Thanks for being a great example of compassion even if you disagree!
A lot of Latter-day Saint theology does not exist in direct conflict with traditional readings of the Bible (since it is Bible-based), a lot of it exists within holes and gaps in that theology, or areas that are suggested in the Bible, but not fleshed out.
Here, the pastor explains that he believes having hope in an eternal marriage is a step backwards from finding fulfillment in God alone. He relate an experience of trying to pin his hopes and dreams on his girlfriend (and eventual wife) and learning to let go of that to find a deeper fulfillment in God.
None of that contradicts the LDS teachings. In fact, to the extent LDS people do the same thing with regard to their families, I imagine they will eventually be invited by God to rely on Him more fully.
However, the question for the pastor, is... what is experiencing the presence of God like? You believe you and your wife will both be there. So what will you be doing? Nothing? Playing harps?
The Latter-day Saint theology of eternal marriage does not replace the fulfillment one finds in God with fulfillment in ones spouse. Rather, eternal marriage is viewed properly as exactly the relationship those two individuals have *while* partaking in the presence of God. These is not fully fleshed out, but the LDS theology brings in strands of apotheosis which has existed here and there in Christianity for ever: the idea when don't just sit back and chill in the presence of God, or play harps, but that we are empowered by grace to receive His nature and be active participants in His work. What LDS theology adds is that we do this work as families.
All the temple work is not to replace the worship of God with worship of the family, but simply to prepare us to be the kind of family that God wants to work with. You could see this as analogous to missionary work. Yes, God could do all missionary work Himself, appearing to everyone individually to offer them the gospel, so we rely only on Him. But instead, He chooses to work through missionaries, commanding us to go and teach the gospel. Likewise, God could organize us without families, raising us himself so that we find fulfillment only in him. But instead, he created both man and woman, commanded them to cleave together and be one flesh, to have children, and repeatedly emphasizes the critical nature of family, from adopting the title Father in Heaven, to constant comparisons of marriage with the relationship of the Israelites to Him or the Church to Christ. If you look at how family is treated in the scriptures. These things don't replace God, they are just ordained of him to do his work.
To the LDS, saying "I don't believe in eternal families because I don't want my family to get in the way of my relationship with God" is as odd as saying "I don't believe in doing missionary work, because I don't believe missionaries should get between God and other people." Yes, it is possible to put your marriage, or your mission, above your relationship with God. But that's not an indictment of those practices, both of which were commanded by God. That's just to say you're not fulfilling those commandments as intended.
And while the Lord often reminds people that nations and kings are temporary throughout scripture, He really doesn't do that with family. Instead the most eternal and important things are compared with the family. Yes, marriage and family are intended to help us comprehend the importance of covenants, being faithful, what the love of God is like. But that need not end in the mortal life.
The passages that will immediately jump to most protestant minds are Christ's response to a very technical argument against the resurrection by some Sadducees and Paul urging Corinthians not to marry. The protestant interpretation of these passages are that they are blanket statements that apply to everyone rather specific responses to particular situations. The LDS view is that because the Bible as whole places a HUGE importance on families including divine commissions, assuming Christ's or Paul's, it would be strange to read those as blanket statements. They are particular teachings meant for very specific situations.
For example, when the Pharisees tried a trick question on Christ about whether the Jews should pay taxes, he said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." This is not an eternal endorsement of taxes, and a statement that all people will pay taxes here and in the next life. Similarly, when the Sadducees describe a super obscure case of marriage specific to the Mosaic law, namely a woman marrying a brother, having no children, then being passed through seven total brothers, they weren't a faithful audience ready for doctrine. They were lawyers, trying to argue why the Mosaic marriage laws prove their can be no resurrection. Christs denouncement of marriage in this case is not doctrine for the faithful, but a rebuke of the specific Mosaic form of marriage they were using to try to justify their anti-resurrection views, much like when he denounced the legalities of getting a bill of divorce for any reason.
Similarly, while Paul in telling the Corinthians it is better not to marry is explicitly a response to their letter in which they wrote "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." There's context here, notice that Paul doesn't say: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations full stop." Especially because he has specifically warned them a chapter earlier about homosexuality, it's quite possible that this is his advice for gay church members... and might even imply that Paul himself was either gay or identified closely with that group but had his own reasons for remaining celibate. This more narrow interpretation makes sense, because Paul writes in a different epistle that a bishop must be the husband of one wife (i.e. *must be married*). Admittedly though, this is another passage where different sect have varying interpretations.
And aside from those two passages that can be explained as specific, contextual criticisms rather than universal doctrine, the Bible is incredibly pro-family. From the creation of man and woman and the commandment for them to be one flesh, to the comparisons of marriage to our relationship with God throughout both testaments, to the marital advice and commandments for church leaders to be married in the New Testament, the very title we are to address God with in prayer, the Bible reenforces the role of the family as critical piece of the work of God... and there's no reason to think it will cease to be so.
Of course, while the LDS church belief around eternal families is founded in the Bible, a lot of the specific detail comes from revelations we believe are given to modern prophets. But these are not in contradiction to the Bible; these revelations clarify the parts that people don't understand or have misinterpreted. It's not LDS people making up new stuff, it's God actively calling us back to the words of the Bible as intended to be understood in the Holy Ghost.
Wow! Love this response! Everyone should read this!!
@@mycatwould Thanks! I'm always vaguely surprised when someone reads one of my comments. They're mostly my attempt to organize my thoughts from a video and prevent me from firehosing all these opinions at my wife :) However, I'm glad when they are also helpful to others!
With regards to exclusivity, I think it is important to remember that going into the temple and participating in the covenants there, we are also putting ourselves on a greater level of responsibility to live the gospel. God does not want us to take on more than we are ready for and so we go through an interview to make sure that we are living to a certain standard as far as word of wisdom and keeping our other covenants that we have made. This helps ensure that we are ready to step into greater covenant making, a hopefully deeper relationship with the Lord, and greater responsibility as well. I believe it's completely motivated by love from our Father in Heaven.
Very humble and respectful presentation. You did great learning everything you can about Latter-day Saint temples. I also appreciated you sharing your views on temples and on the need for them.
I think you should do a similar video on the need for living prophets to guide the Church and share why mainstream Christianity doesn't think that's necessary.
Perhaps you didn't listen to the rest of his video where he expressed (yes, very kindly) that temples aren't necessary and our beliefs are wrong.
@@b.j.3729 I did. But I can't get offended by someone's beliefs.
I appreciate that and feel somewhat the same way, but I wouldn't go so far as to invite him to tell the world why our beliefs are wrong.
@@b.j.3729 How about just him telling the world why he genuinely thinks our beliefs are wrong?
I think there is value in that, for him and those who watch these videos, because the Spirit will still testify of whether what he is saying is corruption or light.
In the end people will still have to decide for themselves, but they should hear both sides to fully exercise their agency.
Very true about the Spirit, but it just concerns me deeply that he has been "respectfully" sharing his conclusions about our beliefs for 2 years now, and has so successfully planted seeds of doubt in the minds of weak people that he has even moved to Utah to lead his group of fall-away saints. He is very good at what he does. Now more than ever, we who know truth need to boldly and clearly testify of it, rather than invite opposition and confusion. Then the Spirit will truly testify to the humble and penitant that what we say is true.
Open hearts and open minds towards one another = love for one another. THAT is what the world so desperately needs. Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for your open-minded look at the Latter-day Saints and our religion. ♥
Pastor Jeff, I fully enjoy your videos and your open heart and mind. I am actually a Temple worker and get to assist patrons in the temple when they come to do proxy work. You are definitely a special spirit, and I can see the Lord working through you. Thank you I look forward to your next video 😊
Oh wow, you're a mormon, that's sad.
Do not be deceived! He has an agenda
Do not be deceived by the Mormon religion, it is a scam.@@kimjump1635
maybe you're the one deceived by the mormon corporation@@kimjump1635
the mormon church has an agenda to collect money
That mystery room in the St. George temple will be a solemn assembly room (there's a huge one in the Salt Lake temple), but they rarely build them anymore and thus many people have no idea about them. They were typical in the very early temples and, apart from being used for solemn assemblies, some of them were temporarily used for regular Sunday services while meeting houses were being built (settlers tended to rush building a temple first when establishing a new settlement). A solemn assembly is just a highly formal gathering of the saints for some specific purpose-usually the dedication of a temple or sustaining of a new church president-but also to receive prophetic instruction or revelation and the like, which was historically undertaken in these specialised rooms. The Church has somewhat outgrown them now, with far more people in a community than could ever fit into such a room, so now they only get used on occasion if there's a relevant use that involves a smaller segment of local membership, but mostly they're basically just a relic of a time when the Church was a lot smaller and burgeoning.
Pastor Jeff, at about 3:30 you asked "How did some pastor get access? Not because I am all that special." I think you are special and thank you again for these videos. Keep learning. You will see, if you have not already, what Latter-day saints refer to as temple scriptures in the Bible.
I love how you are going through this journey with an open mind! This really gives me hope with my religion because people do not agree with me. Thank you for having such an open mind! ❤
11:53 if you study the history of the Kirtland Temple, then this will make a lot more sense to you. This is the solemn assembly room, and it is very sacred and very special. When I went to see this in the St. George Temple, a couple months ago, I had an experience that overwhelmed me the Holy Spirit. I felt the presence of my ancestors who helped build this temple, and it was a very special experience for me. I’m glad you mentioned about this room.
It's called familiar spirits that you sense. Read what the bible says about them
@@JIKOKALOL it isn’t familiar spirits. The SAME Spirit that bore witness with my spirit that Jesus is the Christ is the SAME one that I know in the temple.
@@JIKOKALOLyou have much to learn buddy
@@JIKOKALOLfamiliar spirits is conjuring like in a seance. Like all of God's gifts, Satan imitates real spiritual events, which is why we aren't to conjure spirits.
Wonderful video Jeff! As someone who taught Temple Prep for several years (and I am also not an expert) I can speak to the deep symbolism in and outside each temple. I am very glad that on your last visit you were more able to take your time and truly enjoy the temple. I've had visits where I was also on tour for most of a day, didn't say a single word to anyone, and just let my relationship with Christ grow through the symbols and solemnity of the temple and temple grounds. Those have been some of my most special visits. One summer I made it a goal to visit all the temples in my home state at least once - which was also very edifying and rewarding. May you be blessed on this journey of discovery and curiosity.
The assembly halls were used for gatherings of priesthood holders and conferences. A lot of those gatherings now take place in Stake centers.
Just a comment on "recent changes in emphasis". Various LDS Apostles have written books on the importance of Temple covenants going back to at least the 1950s that talk about all the same things that you likely heard in those visits. It seems to me to be less a change in official policy, but cultural acceptance. Back in the 80s it would not be unusual during a Sunday School class for the teacher to just read from a book written by an Apostle because they felt uncomfortable talking about the Temple ordinances themselves. In the last 20-30 years of General Conference talks have insisted on "Sacred more than Secret", explaining that as long as members are being respectful about the Temple we do not have to just quote leaders.
Many have commented on the washing and anointing done in the temple. It is true that we went into a room naked but we had a cloth covering us completely. There was nothing immodest or questionable that went on. We were touched with anointed water on our forehead, collarbone, belly and I don't remember where else (but not between our thighs) while receiving a blessing. There was never anything untoward or sexual in nature with this practice. The blessing was beautiful as was the experience.
The iniatory ordinances have been modified to be even more thoughtful and meaningful. Greatly meaningful and blessings and promises given by laying hands on your head.
The foot - The purpose of the different parts of the body part was declared and blessed.
Jeff -- Please permit a couple of comments regarding our view of heaven. Our concept of heaven differs from what many protestants might understand as heaven. Yet, I believe that you are overemphasizing the differences and failing to see the overwhelming similarities. We, too, believe that our every wish and desire will be fulfilled by being brought back into the presence of the Lord. That's the most important thing about heaven -- we'll be with God, never to be separated from Him again. Nothing is, will be, or can be better than that!
None of us, in our mortal state, can fully appreciate what that will be like, but I believe I caught a glimpse of it one early Saturday morning. I awoke while our three young children were still peacefully sleeping in their beds down the hall. My bride was quietly sleeping, resting her head on my shoulder. The early morning sunlight filtered through the curtains, bathing the room is soft, golden hues. I could hear birds softly chirping outside our window. It was a perfect moment of complete peace. Everything was in its proper place. I had no worries or concerns. There wasn't a single thing to wish for. I felt like God had wrapped His arms around me and filled my entire being with His light and love. That's what I imagine heaven to be like, only heaven will be more wonderful and the sense of pease and contentment more complete. Is that conception so fundamentally different from yours?
Yes, we believe in eternal progression. But, so do you. You said that you don't believe heaven will be all sitting on clouds and harp playing. You said you believed heaven would be an active place, with lots of new experiences. You even said it would be adventurous. With all that doing, experiencing new things, and adventuring, won't you also be learning (a/k/a progressing)? We might have a more detailed understanding of what this progression might look like, but we both believe in a form of progression in the next life.
One aspect of this progression that we believe in is that we'll have the opportunity to assist God in His work. I believe we will find great joy in working with Him to bring about the eternal life and salvation of the children of God, just as we find great joy in preaching the gospel in this life. Note: I'm NOT saying God will need our help. I'm saying He will allow us to help. We will undoubtably learn from working along side of Him, and thus we will progress.
You are so close to an understanding of eternal marriage. I understand where you are coming from in saying that you had to learn to give up your wife in order to put all your hopes in Jesus. We teach the same thing! This concept is NOT in conflict with the doctrine of eternal marriage. Jesus taught that the first commandment is to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind. We are to love God more than anything, or anyone, else. This means we must love the Lord more than we love our spouse.
How is this compatible with the doctrine of eternal marriage? Suppose you and your wife are on a football field. You're on opposite sidelines, standing on the goal line. In the far end zone, Jesus is standing, beckoning you to come to Him. As each of you grow closer to Jesus, you will automatically draw closer to each other, too. In this way, your continually increasing love of the Savior will also lead to an increasing love of your wife. You may have experienced this in your own marriage. You may love your wife more today than when you 'gave her up' for Jesus. So, loving your wife is not incompatible with the first and great commandment. That's true both in this life and the next.
It clearly states in the Bible that there will be no marriage in heaven. How do the LDS refute that? Just curious.
@@rebekahedwards5318 I think you're referring to Matt. 22:30 (or Luke20:34). In the KJV, Matthew reads: "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
In this passage, and the similar one in Luke, didn't say there would be no married couples in heaven. He said that people would GET married in heaven. He didn't say a married couple arriving at the Pearly Gates would become divorced as soon as they passed through those gates.
So, it's not inconsistent with what is recorded in scripture to say a couple married in this life will be married in the next. Such a couple wouldn't need to "mary, [or be] given in marriage" because they are already married.
It would be inconsistent to say two single persons could meet and marry in the next life. Those two would need to marry or be given in marriage in order to be married.
In this context, consider what the Savior promised Peter: "... [W]hatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shal be bound in heaven...." (Matt. 16:19) When two people are married, aren't they bound together by God in this life? If so, why won't they remain bounded together in the next life? (The answer is in most churches the marriage ceremony itself says the marriage is "until death do you part". Whereas, in our marriages the marriage is "for time and all eternity". Bound on earth we shall remain bound in heaven.)
It isn't a "worthiness" factor alone that allows us to participate in temple work. None of us who do work in the temple are perfect, and without Christ we are far from it. More than anything it's a "commitment" factor that allows us to be there. Much like a state will not issue a driver's license to someone unless they prove a certain level of understanding of and commitment to operating a vehicle properly and obeying traffic laws, members of the church must show a level of commitment to striving to obey basic commandments before entering into covenants to obey higher and holier laws. And ALL people are invited and strongly encouraged to do so. I find it fascinating, Pastor, that you are so great at touring people through your perspective of the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in such a positive and kind way, and then each and every time you follow it up with telling the world why such beliefs are wrong. I can testify that the loving and Almighty God HAS indeed shown forth his power and works and has provided temples as a way to accomplish His work. Temples are not the work of Joseph Smith. They are commissioned of God. Temples in every way point to our Living Savior and His great atoning sacrifice. Jesus IS the veil of the temple between us and Heavenly Father, through whom we can walk into His presence. Temples enable each of us to do our small part in being "saviors on Mount Zion," in doing as He did and as He commissioned, to help save those who can't save themselves. No, the Lord's work has never been about what might be accepted in "mainstream" ideologies. It certainly wasn't during His life and ministry, and it hasn't been in any time in history.
I lived Brad Wilcox’ talk: “Worthiness is not Flawlessness”
I am glad you have gotten a little more of the nuance about our beliefs on opportunities for those who have died without accepting the gospel than you had before - in that it is not necessarily a second chance for those who turned it down in this life (though the knowledge of a Just and Loving God may provide that opportunity if an actual fair chance was not given based on earthly imperfections), but one point of clarification that I have heard and I think is worth mentioning is that accepting the gospel and aligning yourself woth Christ is much easier and better in this life, than it is for someone who has passed on. This allows us to still know how important it is to spread the gospel the best we can in this lifeand how important it is to do so if we are given the choice here. Most important to our journey is our willingness, as it is taught in the Book of Mormon that the same spirit that possesses our body in this life, will be what we are and will be in charge after this life. So qn attitude of "oh, I'll do that later, I don't want to make that commitment now" will permiate us in the next life as well. We should work to overcome that now as best we can, because it will be an easier progression here than it will be after we die. Not that it will be impossible, but it may be harder
Jeff I have a suggestion for you. One thing I think your missing is the missionaries. I know you've met them, but as a former missionary my self, i understand the importance of including the missionaries. They are extensions of the apostles called to preach the gospel to all the world. Missionaries have a special setting apart that is ordained of god. they are simple and weak , meaning they are young in age, and don't have the guile of heart that may come from living in the age we live in. They are weak small and simple as to the ways of men, but according to God they will thrash the nations.
13 Wherefore, I call upon the weak things of the world, those who are unlearned and despised, to thresh the nations by the power of my Spirit;
14 And their arm shall be my arm, and I will be their a shield and their buckler; and I will gird up their loins, and they shall fight manfully for me; and their enemies shall be under their feet; and I will let fall the sword in their behalf, and by the fire of mine indignation will I preserve them.
They are set apart to preach the gospel to kings presidents and the learned and taught and untaught, to the poor and meek. They are in important part in becoming baptized in the church of Jesus Christ. the mission president holds special keys to preaching the gospel. they are able to open the windows of heaven. The members are instrumental in finding people to teach. When they find a friend and desire to share the gospel with they invite the missionaries to teach there friends about Jesús Christ. There mission is to baptize and receive the holy ghost by the laying on of hands.
Because of the keys that the mission president has been given they have special commissions to teach the gospel. With the aide of missionaries you will progress in your conversion to the gospel, and you will have the spirit and holy ghost even more present with you. The windows of heaven will be open and you will receive a true witness of the gospel through true priesthood authority and keys. I would like to invite you to invite the missionaries in your understanding the saints and through reading the book of Mormon, and in coming to know God and Jesus Christ. It is a conversion process. without the missionaries it would be like eating a really good meal but not ordering the main course, with out including the prophets keys and special witness that are excersised through giving keys to the mission president and intern have the direction of Jesús Crist there. There are two relationships in the church one comes through the priesthood. through true authority. The other is a personal relationship. The one you are exercising now is a personal relationship. including the missionaries is a step in faith because its excepting church authority. and for a pastor that can either be hard or exciting because of the priesthood. under standing the priesthood or gods power to save souls of men on earth. this power can only be handled in righteousness. it will always yield faith in the savior... okay so including the missionaries means including priesthood keys, and the power of heaven to open the windows of heaven in your life. It would be a very faith promoting step forward.
Including the missionaries couldn't be more important in your journey and quest to learn about the true Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. In the sacred name of Jesus Christ amen.
Hello Pastor Jeff. I think there are a few things that I can connect the temple ordinances into the teachings found in the New Testament. I’m not a bible scholar but I have read the whole bible this last two years and I can see how it fits. I may not have the same thoughts and ideas as other lds members however and my view is just my views and not necessarily ideas from our General Authorities but here I go.
Everyone, the living and the dead, needs to believe in Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost to be saved.
Baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:15,16)
Jesus taught that he needed to go away so the Holy Ghost or the comforter can come (john 14)
Paul rebaptized people to receive the Holy Ghost (Act 19:2-6)
The Endowment involves covenants we make to be true Christians or believers of Christ. These covenants are tied to the two great commandments of how to Love God and how to love others. They are also tied to the teachings from Paul. In the endowment we covenant to live:
the Law of the Gospel,
the Law of Obedience (keeping the commandments)
the Law of Chastity (no fornication)
the Law of Sacrifice (a form of loving others. Giving up substances to help the poor)
The Law of Consecration (helping to build up the kingdom of God which involves doing callings and helping others to come to Christ. Paul had helpers that went along with him to teach the gospel)
Temple marriage or sealing is the message of being married to the bride groom. The covenant there isn’t just between husbands and wives. It’s a covenant that involves Christ/God. We are to be sealed to Christ and be his.
There are so many teachings we can tie the temple to teachings in the New testament. I think the temple ordinances are first, the way we execute or show Christ that we accept him. Secondly, lds temple ordinances are the “New Covenants” found in the New testament. Hopefully you can understand where I’m coming from. Thanks for all you do.
I would encourage you to read Hebrews Chapters 8-9 carefully
@@kevinthurman5723
Chapter 8 verse 10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
In the endowment we are given the law. The two great commandments of love God and love others. And we make that promise to keep those laws in our mind and our hearts. Probably meaning to always think about God and finding ways to help others. And in the endowment we do in a way become his people simply by doing the basic of loving God and loving others.
The “new covenant” is ultimately accepting Jesus and through him we are cleansed from our sins and are saved. That cleansing from sin in my opinion as I have seen in the Bible is the idea of receiving the Holy Ghost. And receiving the Holy Ghost is what saves us. For mainstream Christian’s, the Holy Ghost is Jesus. So by receiving the Holy Ghost after baptism in lds view, is receiving Jesus in the Christian view. And Paul ask the people if they have received it yet but they didn’t in Acts 19 which made Paul gave them the Holy Ghost after baptism. Receiving the Holy Ghost or recieving Christ is the new covenant.
Closely tied to it too is the message of the marriage of the bridegroom. It may have been a “parable” but I think there is a deeper meaning to it. The “church” or “his people”, need to be married to him in order to be saved. Again, it’s another form of recieving Jesus and making him a part of our lives to be saved.
In a nutshell I would say it like this … (taught to me a few years ago) … true obedience is not ‘doing what you are told’, it is when GOD’s will IS your will. I think you might (at least at some level, agree with that. In the temple we are taught this and many things to help us along this path.
All/many aspects of the temple experience are very closely paralleling ancient temple worship by the Children of Israel/tabernacle design. Hebrews 6-10 has been the most powerful education for me to understand and appreciate the ceremonies that I partook in. The design of outer to inner worship ending with approaching God in His presence is what we do and it truly echoes the worship of the biblical people thousands of years ago. Not so foreign or weird seeming once you realize that!
Hi Pastor Jeff, very impressed by your talk about Temples and by you as well. It’s wonderful that you are open to sharing your thoughts- which are very balanced i think. I’ve always wondered why many Christians tend to criticise the beliefs of other Christians instead of sharing in a non judgemental way.I am a Latter- day follower of Jesus Christ, have made temple covenants and I think that you are engaged in such a wonderful thing here involving and encouraging understanding and respect. Your thoughtful, sensitive approach must break down many barriers. Thank you.
Thank you for the work you are doing to build bridges. I would like to propose a different way to look at the differences between how Latter Day Saints view salvation compared to other Christian denominations. I have heard you often mention that you believe some individuals are "not destined to be in God's presence forever, so they will be separated from His presence forever" or God "chooses who spends eternity with Him and who doesn't". This does not feel like the loving Father I know our Heavenly Father to be. What loving, perfect father would choose some children to be with him and send others away forever? We believe God wants and invites EVERY ONE of His children to be with Him eternally. He gives us a way to accept or reject that future for ourselves, based on our choices and actions (including accepting the ordinances He has offered, and changing/improving ourselves through repentance (change) to prepare ourselves for that type of eternal existence). Taking this a bit further, in His mercy, He has prepared many levels ("mansions") to allow us to receive the maximum blessings and best eternal conditions we are prepared to experience. It is not an all or nothing proposition (spending eternity with God or not).
What a lovely chat, Pastor Jeff. I liked that it shared something that you sincerely appreciated. I liked that you covered similarities & differences theoretically, but you also shared from your personal faith journey... good food for thought. Thank you!
The bite model is a good model to determine whether the LDS is a cult.
Pastor Jeff, so just want to say thank you. This channel means so much to me. Your open heart and willing mind are refreshing and I am so grateful that you are taking the time to understand what we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in. Thank you for listening to what God has put in your heart (what we recognize as spiritual promptings) to create this channel and reach so many people and share your love of God and of Christ with the world. Thank you. I have a lot to learn from the way you interact with people of different faiths. Thank you for being a good example. For being a Christ-like example. I have felt touched by the Spirit watching this video. I know that God lives. I know that He loves us, and that He cares. "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost".
You may have missed that there is no eternal rest in Gods creations. The creation is ongoing, cyclical by nature by way of birth, innocence, awakening, work/sacrifice, justice/mercy, becoming one, redemption, receiving God’s name and finally resurrection to something new and incomprehensible. In short death and resurrection is the pattern, Christ and literally his name brings order and makes all things possible. Eternal progression my friend. Many have not fulfilled this pattern in the most ideal way, some are truly evil and seek to pervert Gods order. Some may understand a ritual of purification or anointing and only see a reflection of their own wickedness. Finally being sealed as husband and wife is how we fulfill the command to overcome our fallen state and the fallen state of the world. It is the union of polarized forces that together we transcend duality and become perfected in Christ. So we can only be perfected in Christ by being one as husband and wife and we can only be one as we are unified in Christ.
"Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it." What do you think Isaiah was prophesying about here? Why would God command ancient Israelites to build tabernacles to perform ordinances in? Why would God command Solomon to build a temple? Why would Jesus expel the moneychangers from the temple in Jerusalem? God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, my friend. Think not that Christ came to destroy the prophets. For all of His words shall be fulfilled. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is His kingdom on earth.
Amen!
You are 100% on point! What you just said is why all other secs have lost me! Those passages have rang true to me in finding the Latter Day Saints to ring true! I don’t know why they always have to explain it away! I do love this channel because of his willing heart to truly look at the LDS beliefs! This man is pure in heart and a good Christian!❤
Amen. This man is the embodiment of a good Christian.
And what ordinances are you referring to? Animal sacrifice? Because the temples in Jesus day were a place for prayers and offerings. Not any of the ordinance that are now performed in the LDS temples.
The prophecy is about Jerusalem not Salt Lake City. See verse 1.
Pastor Jeff, the way I am hearing your vision of the afterlife it is right in line with the Terrestrial Kingdom. I believe you will not be disappointed. It will be as marvelous as you expect!
@@mavinswapp9663That seems a bit judgmental to say he values Paul’s words more than Christ. Pastor Jeff is the one to decide and say if he believes Christs words or Paul’s words more. Be kind
Dude- in this wicked experience, I’d almost settle for the Terrestrial world right now. I can’t wait for the millennium soon cuz that will be a Terrestrial experience. I can’t take this less than Telestial experience any longer!
Isn't it great that a merciful, loving, and righteous God is the ultimate judge of where people will end up, and not random humans on the internet with their limited perspective.
@@DesertPrimrose 🙌🙌🙌
@@mavinswapp9663 Wait, you think he’d end up in the Telestial world, for following the Prophet Paul’s words? Yikes, I’d never want you in the judgment seat. Thank goodness!
2:32 worthiness of the temple is more about being ready. Thanks for pointing that out.
One key to my understanding of our relationship with God and progression is to look at our earthly relationships (but of course perfected) as a type or model of our heavenly or spiritual relationships. We see our parents as all knowing compared to us as children, and as we grow we come closer to their level. They will always be ahead of us on that journey, and becoming more like them does not change the fact that they are still our parents, and in many ways our accomplishments bring them joy, and an increase in honor and glory, even without them changing in themselves
Pastor Jeff I am so impressed in the way you explain what you are learning with such respect.
Thank you Pastor Jeff ❤️ I could tell you sincerely explained both sides and it was beautifully done. 🙏 This is what is needed to help us understand eachother better.
While he's fighting against the church, he's inadvertently shared the gospel with millions of people. Way more than I ever will.
He's also sharing the truth of God's word. ❤️
The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again.
😅
Oh, you're absolutely right! Without Christ's atonement, everything would be HOPELESS. I'd rather not have this life tbh, even though there are cheap thrills to be had. He has done ALL that was necessary to bring us back into God's presence! And oh how I am thankful for Him to do that for me!!
@@LuxuryPads90 Since Jesus Christ has done all that was necessary to reconcile us to God, that means that I don't need to believe the Book of Mormon is true, believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, join a church, go through a worthiness interview, confess sins to a bishop (Only God can forgive sins.), earn forgiveness (Forgiveness is free.) I John 1:9, go through an Endowment Ceremony, learn masonic tokens, grips, signs, handshakes, and passwords, put on Lucifer's power and priesthoods, get married (Christ said that there would be no marriage in heaven.), do temple work, wear temple garments, don't drink coffee or tea, do family history, etc..
I know Jesus Christ never required 10% of anyone's income to get to 'top level' of heaven. 😔 I know Jesus Christ never sat at the temple doors checking for valid temple recommends. 😔 I know Jesus Christ never promised men a harem of women on their own planet. 😔
So thankful! 🙏🏽 💓
You can trust Jesus. 💕 🕊
I have peace with God by faith.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. 🕊 💕
@@LuxuryPads90 Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 😀😀
I can't imagine finding lasting and eternal peace and joy without progression in the next life. Eternity is a VERY long time. It's unfathomable to me to think that there would be no progression in the eternities. I believe our Heavenly Father wants His children to continually learn, to grow, and to become more enlightened, just as any good father would want for His children. Progression in the next life will be available to those who desire it. Those who are happy without progression will be able to choose that as well.
If God is so loving, why has he sentenced everyone of us to death?
@Elizabeth-rk3do I don't see death as a bad thing, and neither does God. It is just another step of our progression into an even more glorious existence.
There is an assembly hall in the Seattle Temple. Our Ward had a special endowment session in the early 1990s, but before that we had a meeting together in the assembly hall with speakers, of which I was one. It was very special, all of us dressed in white, united in prayer, worship, and in Spirit. I now live in Las Vegas. The temple here is newer and I don't recall seeing an assembly hall in there. I worked as an ordinance worker in Seattle for awhile and here, too, for over 2 years. Temples are Spiritually uplifting and rewarding places for me. Doing ordinance work for my ancestors and close family members unifies the generations and is heartfelt for me. ❤ I enjoy your channel and look forward to your continued reading and commentary of the Book of Mormon.
I didn't realize seattle had one! I was under the impression that the last temple with an assembly hall was Washington D.C. That's awesome!
Seattle Temple was built in the late 70s and dedicated in the very early 80s, not long after the DC temple, maybe that's why it has one. The Vegas Temple near me, now, was dedicated in the late 80s and doesn't have one. The change must've been in the 80s.
doing some more research, one source claims that the Santo Domingo Dominican Republic temple (built in 2000) also has one, but I couldn't find any pictures or other documentation
I love the Las Vegas temple. It has the most beautiful celestial room I've ever been in. I was born and raised in Las Vegas but now I live in Peru. When I was a kid, I always thought the temple was Disneyland in the distance from the 95. I wasn't a member then.
@@theclasanteler3427It certainly sounds beautiful! My father lived in Portland when the temple there was dedicated and it's a similar design to Las Vegas.
I've also heard absolutely amazing things about the San Diego Temple celestial room! Did you know that it opens into an indoor garden? It sounds incredible; I'd love to attend a session there someday.
In truth it's somewhat similer to a Naziritic vow. Where a person covenants their life more strictly to God. That person is "consecrated" "Set apart" or made "Holy to God." Part of that requirement back then also involved avoiding the use of Alcohol to be more temperate. Like Samual and Samson. (Though Samson was really bad at it.)
There is washing and anointing to Priesthood and a laying on of hands for blessings. This isn't so much that you are 'special' now but it means you have an additional responsibility to serve God and serve your fellow men. Before a person goes on a service mission they are required to go to the Temple and consecrate themselves to God.
Every blessing the Lord gives blesses your Life but in truth the blessing is meant so you can feed his sheep. In acts. The Apostles received this outpouring of the spirit before they went out to establish Christ's Church. The Temple Endowment is meant to be a similar thing. First for yourself and then for others.
Great video. I think you treated the topic delicately. Your compare and contrast were very good. And obviously, your knowledge has grown immensely. There was a part where you talked about surrendering yourself and your wife to Jesus that felt deeply personal. I really felt what you were saying, and it was beautiful. It reminds me of what the LDS would call consecration. A willingness to surrender all unto God. A part of me felt sad that you felt an eternal sealing would be a step backward. Anyhow, I hope and pray God continues to bless you and your family. I hope he continues to give you understanding. Hopefully, you are still here when they do an open house for the Salt Lake Temple after the renovations are completed. I would love to see a review of that one.
Thank you again for an uplifting and informative video. I so appreciate how you express the LDS view in a respectful and complete way and (equally importantly) clearly share the differences with your views. I know you are being divinely directed.
Wonderful❤️ Happy New Year Pastor Jeff
Excellent, kind and thoughtful presentation. I love how knowledgeable you are with the latter-day saint dialogue and conversations. you feel so at ease. I love the curiosity and I love the way you share in a very kind way about evangelicals and other Christians. I am learning so much and I’m very appreciative. Thank you!
I've been thinking a lot recently about what it means for Jesus to be the light of the world. Ultimately, everything we experience that it truly light is of Him then, right? The mission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to show his light to the world, as I believe is the mission of every Christian faith. I saw a video recently suggesting that it might be better to refer to us as a heretical Christian sect than a cult if one feels the need to make a distinction, and I feel like that's a label I can live with, even if its still a little insulting. Everyone who hears the word cult pictures a place of darkness, and its really no wonder how quick we are to defend ourselves from such notions.
I think it's worth noting that a temple has only ever been a comforting place to me when I felt worthy to be there, and it's hard to imagine the presence of God being any different. Good works may not be required for salvation, but what sort of heaven would God's presence be if you couldn't look him in the eye? He can wash away sins and offer infinite love, but how does he change people? Is it not by walking a path for us to follow? He may have vanquished the gates of Hell, but he will not force anyone to walk through that opening. I think everyone has to fundamentally change in some ways to be capable of embracing that light without being burned by it. I wouldn't say that we are saved by any good works, but is it possible to change without them? I think that's the purpose of the covenants and the ordinances. To help orient us so that we can better have the ears to hear the word and the eyes to see the light. To facilitate the changes we need to make. The light is there no matter what we do. The gates are no more no matter what we do.
I guess an appeal to the idea of progression after this life is that it's hard for me to imagine anyone leaving it being ready to embrace that light to it's fullest without learning a thing or two. I feel like the alternative is to believe that God is going to fundamentally alter who we are with a wave of his hand to make us ready, and I can't imagine any of us would be here to begin with if that was an option.
I think the idea of eternal progression exists under the notion that the only alternatives are decline and nonexistence. God isn't getting any more perfect, but his work is certainly progressing. I'm not sure it's necessarily so much a progression of character as it is simply an inevitability assuming anything resembling time exists. I'm sure we'll have a Sunday to rest at the end of this life, but will that last forever? Will there cease to be good to do? I kind of doubt it. Does that make sense? That's my theory anyway.
I don't pretend to know the mysteries of God and I seriously doubt I ever will in this life. We probably don't even have a language sufficient to properly express it, and I'm sure understanding everything right now is unnecessary for salvation. I'm going to do my best to walk in the light, and trust that God knows what he's doing. It never ceases to amaze me how the Gospel manages to seem so simple, yet boundlessly complex at the same time.
Thanks for another wonderful video and earnest take in understanding our beliefs. I find interesting to listen to your take and honest reaction near the end. It’s that spot where I can see your experiences trying to engage and contrast with Latter-day Saints ones. And intriguing to see. I can see how many of your experiences make it difficult to grasp ours. To be fair, how we describe it likely doesn’t help with that. For you there’s a contrast between good things here and the ultimate good of God. For us the truly good things here are expressions and means to learn of the ultimate Good of God. That all of it can/will be brought together into one great whole and be sanctified. For me, life is filled with purpose to help us become One, as christ describes. Similar to how temples are chalk full to symbols of the everyday being sanctified. I think we LDS can reduce that becoming to simple checklists and lose track of Jesus in it…which is why I think there’s been such a recent re-emphasis to help correct that in part. Still, it’s there….my last talk as a YSA, for example, was me talking about my soon-to-be husband being my number 2 in life, with God always being first. So I do get the importance of what you emphasize. I would say the difference is that my relationship with me husband, children, community, ets are still deeply integrated with eternal purposes of God. So I see these not as augmenting, per se, but fulfilling all that can and will be via Christ.
Hi Pastor Jeff!
I hear what you are saying about putting God before family. I would say that one of the great divine paradoxes is that as you give everything to God he takes what we give him and purifies our desires and returns back to us what we have given him but better. That sacrifice takes faith! One of the final covenants of the endowment (I think this is fine to mention) is the Law of Consecration, where you promise to give everything to God, material and of yourself. The promise is that in the due time of the Lord we will receive everything from him. I would also add that following God as the highest priority is usually compatible with Family being most important, but God comes first when the choice is forced.
I enjoyed seeing how much you have learned! Wanting to read the standard works has left you with quite the reading list. But if and when you read through the standard works, I think it would be cool for you and Greg to discuss through some of CS Lewis's stuff. He was not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints or an evangelical, but I love his thoughts and I would enjoy seeing where you, Greg and Clives agree and disagrre.
Thank you for your explanation and perspective. Hearing your beliefs helps me to better understand my friends who are Protestant (I am LDS). We sometimes get a little cross ways in our conversations about religion because we have different perspectives. But your going into some detail of your beliefs helps me see their view a bit more clearly. I appreciate your respectful way of learning about temples and of our faith.
Thanks so much! This video was such a good overview, and you are doing a great work to build peace between denominations, helping build hope for the day when Christ comes and we can have that "unity of faith"
This was good. I appreciate what you are doing and you do it so well and sincerely.
Pastor Jeff you seem to have a problem with the Judgement seat of Christ which is mentioned in the Bible where Believers that are “saved” will receive rewards for their good works after salvation. Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10. All believers ( born again) will stand before Jesus and will be rewarded for their good works that they did in the flesh while living on earth. I have been told by some Evangelicals that all that is required to enter Heaven is to say the sinners prayer. We as Amish and Mennonite Christians believe that Good Works are important and the Bible tells us so.
It was interesting that you had a chance to view the Assembly Room in the St. George Temple and wondered what it is for. Well, I can say that after many years in the church and going to the Temple many times, I don't actually know either. HOWEVER, just before going out into the mission field in 1969, we (other missionaries called at the same time) met for a brief training time of about 3 days in Salt Lake. We all had a chance to do an endowment session in the Salt Lake Temple. Of course it is an experience I will never forget. After the ceremony we were escorted as a group of probably 150 up into the assembly room of the Salt Lake Temple. As I recall from more than 50 years ago, it was arranged pretty much the same as the one in St. George, however MUCH larger. After we had gathered there, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles joined us from the rostrum to answer ANY questions that we may have about the temple ceremony, the purpose of temples, what was expected of us as missionaries, etc. I believe that the Apostle that was answering questions was Elder Packer, who died not too long ago. He was very patient and thorough. As to the arrangement, I believe that the backs of the benches can be switched so that they can face either East or West. This is because if the assembly is being directed under the Aaronic Priesthood, then the members will face towards the Aaronic Priesthood podium and vice versa for the Melchizedek Priesthood. Looking back, I remember that when the Nauvoo temple was re-built and dedicated, that service was broadcast church-wide. My wife and I attended via CCTV and they used the assembly room that is in that temple for that dedication. So, there are two examples of how temple assembly rooms are used. I hope that this is helpful.
Pastor Jeff thanks for your video. Look forward to more. I appreciate your thoughts on the Celestial room and i appreciate your kind words on the intent of it as just making space to mediate on/in the presence of God.
I have a question for Pastor Jeff, how do you come to know when the Holy Ghost has revealed or confirmed something to you?
I have wondered the same. That might be a good topic to make a video on, Pastor Jeff. I must assume that such an experience must be very special to you indeed.
There is a great public video on the church website about the sacred clothing we wear daily as garments, and the clothing we wear in the Temple for the Endowment and Sealing ordinances, specifically.
Also, the ‘assembly room’ in the St. George, LA, DC, and SLC Temples are for gatherings and conferences. A small example is my husband, a recent convert, who works for the Temple maintenance department, was invited to the LA Temple for the Ordinance Workers annual gathering. Those are Temple volunteers who have a weekly shift they work at the Temple for. They held it in the Temple assembly room because it was a conference center of sorts. For the Temple I volunteer for, Redlands CA, we have an adjacent Stake Center (public church building) on the same property as our Temple, so for Redlands we hold our annual Ordinance Worker gathering in the chapel of the Stake Center, and not in the Temple- because Redlands, though a high traffic Temple, is a smaller Temple and does not have an assembly hall. However, that is just one example. There are meetings occasionally held in Temple assembly rooms that are more holy than an annual gathering of Temple workers.
Hope this helps a bit. Lastly, we can talk about so many things that happen in our Temples, but members don’t know what they can and can’t share so they err on side of caution. There is a lot publicly shared thru appropriate church channels of sorts, but not many are familiar with those. 🌟
Message me if you have questions or want the link for that great sacred clothing video.
@hellosaints
Public Video about sacred clothing
ua-cam.com/video/bMutZrefILc/v-deo.htmlsi=Y_mrN1Hy_42wfNgY
Thank you for sharing your more informed thoughts! Your whole discussion about salvation and finding intimacy and joy in God is nice, but I just kept thinking: Pastor Jeff, it's both! Everything we have and are comes from God and he wants us to build a relationship with him like you describe, and he *also* wants us to enjoy the beauty and holiness of family like he does. Salvation is an individual matter, yes, but exaltation (becoming like God--gaining the best blessings) is a family matter. So the Latter-day Saint perspective would answer your perspective with "yes, and __." :)
Jeff, your passion and beliefs are beautiful. As you are working through this journey of understanding, I appreciate your care you’ve taken to contrast and show us where you are coming from. Please, do a deep dive into understanding the plan of salvation when you can. The stages of our eternal existence as our prophets have revealed. I wish you all the best on your journey of discovery
"Exciting, fullfilling and adventurous" would suggest some form of progression, would it not? Even if its just learning from God
The temple covenants and sealings seal us to Heavenly Father. A husband and wife are seal together TO Heavenly Father. It’s HIS eternal family that is sealed NOT our earthly family. That’s why children born in the covenant (born to parents sealed to God) even if those parents seek a temple divorce they don’t need to be re sealed to earthly parents. They keep the sealing of the covenant to God. It isn’t about earthly families sealed for eternity. It’s about Heavenly Fathers eternal family sealed for eternity on earth with our earthly bodies for His (Gods) eternal family.
It's one of the best videos to date! I was so blessed with the gracious and thoughtful explanations of the differences done with great respect. Well done Pastor Jeff. ❤
Thanks for your honest opinions Jeff. I encourage you to keep investigating truth, with faith, and the purpose for temples. The Lord will reward your sincere efforts as he did with me, and as promised by the prophet Moroni in his book chapter 10.
May I suggest you contact Hannah Stoddard from the Joseph Smith Foundation. She has tons of information about the restoration, Joseph Smith, why polygamy was practiced. Going through faith crises. Etc.
Pastor jeff how does the evangelicals understand 1 Corinthians 15, 29
This was my question. Perhaps you could discuss this in one of your vlogs, Pastor Jeff.
Notice the word THEY.
Pagans baptize for the dead.
We know that, "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment." Hebrews 9:27
Luke 16 - The rich man was already in conscious torment in hell.
Baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. Remember the thief on the cross? Baptism is an important step of obedience.
Just a couple of thoughts.
I appreciate your open mindedness.
I am a member of the church. Before i became a member i went through a open house. I wondered the same feelings. What is the big secret. The temples are really sacred. But there are things that would not be understood unless you were a member. In order to go you have to go through Temple Preparation classes. They prepare you to understand more. If you first went without the preparation most of it would be so confusing.
I feel the need to explain that after the proxies are completed the deceased has the opportunity to accept or decline. Agency is an eternal principle.
Keep these videos going
The way I see it is that God always works in a series of progression:
1. The creation of the world and the unfolding of the beginnings of the plan of salvation.
2. Progression out of the garden of Eden and into the world
3. The flood and cleansing of the earth
4. Moses and the children of Israel and their journey to the promised land
5. The Saviors ministry and building up of his church/gospel
6. Reformation
7. Restoration of the Gospel
8. Gathering of Israel and the Temple work.
Every step of the way there is growth and progression. The Temple is so necessary for us to be able to understand our Covenantal Relationship with our Savior. The whole purpose of the Temple is Jesus. Progression has and always will be a part of God's plan for his children, even after this life. There will be so much to learn and so many opportunities to grow from and show glory to the Father and our Savior.
I toured the Kiev temple. The motif of wheat was beautifully infused into everything.
was there satanic alter like Slc temple wuth five point satanic oentagrams?
@@DjClap-je4lyRude. And why would you even know what satanic alters look like? Be kind
That would have been amazing to see. I was in Kiev when they were constricting the temple and my mother was there before me when the site was only designated and was a big field. The Gilbert temple has the agave motif throughout.
@@DjClap-je4lyFor centuries, pentagrams were a symbol of light, creation and healing and were used in many other older Christian buildings in Europe like the Amiens Cathedral in France. During the Middle Ages, Christians incorporated the pentagram into their symbolism and associated it with protection, humankind, God and the five wounds of Christ. It is also what the United States Medal of Honor shape is.
The earliest association inverted pentagrams have with Satanism only goes back to the mid-1800s to a french man named Eliphas Levi who didn’t refer to the symbol in his published works until 1854. Joseph Smith died in 1844. Later and because of Eliphas, Satanists started using this and eventually they became intertwined. Kinda like how the Germans took a hindu symbol and now in the west it has a different meaning than it does to Hindus.
Hi Pastor Jeff, I like how this video is more directed to an Evangelical audience or someone not of the LDS faith. It's nice to hear an outsiders perspective of the Temple.
@@user-uz1hb4mp9b The true and living God offers forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation for free if you are interested. That is how much God loves you. ❤️
Great video and information as usual. Hope all is well with you and your family. Miss you a lot my brother
I love that you have had a similar experience with what we have, that each time we go we can learn a bit more & more each time we go.
Pastor Jeff, realizing you were never a member of the LDS faith, I can appreciate your effort to articulate your thoughtful and respectful observations from your three visits to LDS temple open houses. As a former devout member and temple worker, I'd like to add another layer of perspective from an Evangelical Christian... namely, the following -
1) In the cultural context of the Jews, Jesus Christ taught openly and publicly to all Jews regarding His gospel, keeping nothing in secret (or inaccessible or exclusive).
2) Jesus told the Pharisees that the physical temple would be destroyed... but that He would raise up the new Temple (Himself) so that whoever comes to Him will never be cast out.
3) When Jesus died on the cross, the veil of the Temple was rent from top to bottom - meaning, the purpose of the temple was no longer needed... with the advent of a new covenant. Unfortunately, the LDS church has put back up this symbolic veil.... with covenants that embraces much more.
4) Within this new covenant, our bodies are the temple for the Holy Spirit.
5) Jesus Christ is the ultimate proxy for all of fallen mankind. He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness... and only He provided the atonement for all of us. It is imperative we put our faith and trust in what Jesus Christ could only accomplish for all of fallen mankind.
6) With respect and humility, one can essentially see the LDS temple (with its doctrines, policies, procedures, and practices) as a type of spiritual pyramid scheme. One must pay an honest tithe to the LDS church for the opportunity to "progress" through their plan of Salvation. This technique and approach to "Salvation" has made them the wealthiest and most powerful American Church.
7) Finally, while the LDS church has been a bit more open about what takes place in their temples - a necessity due mostly to the internet, social media, and the growing number of former members who are in the know - there are still other unmentioned implications to their successful management of valuable temples throughout the world... which add to the LDS church's benefit (in political influence) and social and profitable return on investment.
Obviously, the LDS temples are beautifully designed and they definitely improve the neighborhoods in which they are located... and I believe most reasonable community members are very appreciative of this.
For the LDS faithful, temples - with all that takes place in them - are the symbol and hope of their faith. Jeff, it appears you understand this basic fact... and I'm grateful you are able to effectively articulate the contrast from your observations.
I’m having issues with spiritual and even political issues.
So on spiritual matters I pray for a sign, on what to do and where to go.
I want to join a church, get Baptised, but I don’t get any help from God.
Even reaching out to churches they don’t seem to want to help I get little responses.
There are some people who are willing to help but them seem to grow tired of my questions and stop replying.
Even Christian UA-cam channels, or website don’t seem to want to help.
And the only time I have had spiritual feelings is in a LDS church.
And many have said they Aren’t good, but the community they have is amazing.
Then on politics I sit more in the middle but felt the right side was more to God.
But I seem many right wing people and points taken down by left wing people.
Even getting on to science there is a lot religion can’t answer, or it make me struggle to accept religion.
Plus just the fact all these religions and denominations exist I feel contradict one another and I’m just left confused.
Why has God put me in this position, not answering me?
Or his churches?
Late twenties no partner, marriage.
Overweight by about 20-25lbs.
No friends.
Ignored by people.
I just have nothing in life, I thought I would be further in life by now.
I do also think I would have been baptised in LDS by now if it wasn’t for my parents at the time being awkward and just childish about it.
And I donno how to even deal with them about it nowadays. Even my sister was making fun of me for it.
So if anyone can help me or guide me in what to, how to pray, what to ask, where to go, help with my family.
And why do think God has made himself so hard to find?
And even churches, Christians, Christian websites and such, friends you name seem to not want to talk with me, is there a reason?
Seriously, any help would be very much appreciated!
I'm going through the same thing. The only time i have spiritual feelings is in the LDS Church, but I keep reading how it's of the devil and false religion. The LDS community is amazing, but I have conflicting feelings. I'm meeting with missionaries this week.
I am a convert to the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Continue to
cry out to God and ask him to lead you to the truth
Ask him if he knows who you are if he is hearing you, and if he loves you ?
Most of us do not have Marvellous manifestations of the truth, only on a rare occasion .
You will know the truth in your heart by The Whispers and feelings of the still , small voice which is the Holy Ghost. Just be brave enough to follow them. I know it’s true, but each person must find out the truth for themselves.
Meeting with missionaries is a great start. I recommend getting to know your local congregation and keep asking questions. I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God’s church, flaws and all. I have come to that conclusion through navigating feelings very similar to what you are describing.
My advice.. what do you want to believe? Whatever that is, believe that. If it's lds, don't listen to the haters. Follow your promptings. Those spiritual feelings are God speaking to you. Let him in.
And then even if you don't wind up lds, you'll be closer to who you are meant to be.
I'd personally like to believe that I have a loving God who is my father in heaven. He sent his son Jesus Christ to atone for the sins of this fallen world. They know our potential and want us to fulfill it. They want us to be happy and the best way to achieve this happiness is to follow His commandments, build strong relationships by treating others as Christ would, and through traditional families. I'd like to believe that after all Jesus did, he did not just leave us one book, but ongoing revelation through priesthood authority. I'd like to believe that not only can I see Jesus one day and thank Him for what he's done and live with Him, but also live with my husband and children after this life is over. I'd like to believe that how I think/feel and what I say/how I act matters. So I chose to live that way, even if others don't understand it. Your relationship with God matters more. 💜 Good luck on your faith journey!
. Where can I turn for peace?
Where is my solace
When other sources cease to make me whole?
When with a wounded heart, anger, or malice,
I draw myself apart,
Searching my soul?
2. Where, when my aching grows,
Where, when I languish,
Where, in my need to know, where can I run?
Where is the quiet hand to calm my anguish?
Who, who can understand?
He, only One.
3. He answers privately,
Reaches my reaching
In my Gethsemane, Savior and Friend.
Gentle the peace he finds for my beseeching.
Constant he is and kind,
Love without end.
As I read the Book of Mormon as well as the Bible I gain that peace, as I go into the Holy Temple I gain that peace. I listen to so many conflicting opinions, there just opinions ( their own opinions). Mainstream Christianity is not as united as Jeff betrays. Just find a quiet place, your own sacred grove and petition the God that gave you life, if the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints is true. Then read the Book of Mormon and see if you feel Peace, even the peace of God.
I saw you come out of the Orem temple. I tried calling out to you, but my voice is kinda' quiet. It was a beautiful tour.
You talked about (on the video) the "secret things" that take place have been confusing to you in the past or cult-like. Let's say it is a lot like the experience of Moses when the Lord asked him to do certain things (like taking off his shoes) in order to help him understand the sacred nature of God and then he gave him further instruction. Or, with the Holy of Holies in the Jewish tabernacles/temples -You wouldn't want to give away those important things that God reveals because it is special. I hope people can understand that with God some things are just special and pure. The world couldn't handle those things.
Also, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is our everything. And because of that we want to promise him to be faithful to him. He has gifts to give us. We also must surrender ourselves, and then he is willing to give us things that give us greater joy for eternity.
Hey Jeff, I love your videos and enjoy your perspective. To clarify, you stated (I'm paraphrasing) that it seems that Latter-day Saints are de-emphasizing the role of Joseph Smith in our theology.
We are not de-emphasizing Joseph Smith so much as we are trying to properly communicate the central role of Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer. Just because we want to make it clear that it is Jesus we follow, that doesn’t minimize the importance of the Prophet.
For example, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve released the Bicentennial Proclamation a couple years ago, which commemorates the First Vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
The Restoration of Christ's Gospel through Joseph Smith is central to the message proclaimed by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, as well as the full-time missionaries. The Restoration establishes our claim to Godly power and authority, and distinguishes us from other denominations.
I think Jeff was likely taught that LDS worship Joseph Smith over Jesus; and now, through his investigation of the Church, he’s finding that not to be the case. Rather, our focus is, and always has been, on Christ. We respect and appreciate all that Joseph endured in following God’s commission to bring forth the Book of Mormon, restore Christ’s true church, and reveal lost truths again to the world; but we don’t pray to him or worship him in any way. This is why nonbelievers prefer to still call us “Mormons”, because it’s hard to tell a member of the Church of Jesus Christ that they don’t believe in Jesus Christ.
Great video. I always look forward to seeing how you view Latter-day Saint beliefs and practices. I have made it one of my life’s goals to study the architecture, history ,and archetypal principles related to temples and temple ordinances. I have found surprising correlations between ancient Jewish, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, near eastern, far eastern, Native American, early Latter-day Saint and modern Latter-day Saint temples in their archetypal representation of sacred space, man’s relationship to God and our place in the Cosmos. I have been a lifelong Latter-day Saint and have attended temples faithfully for over 20 years. I feel like I learn something new all the time that opens up whole new avenues to me for understanding the infinite, Eternal nature of God’s love and the divine potential of His children. The best description I have heard of the temple is that it is an archetypal scale model of the Cosmos and we go there to properly orient ourselves to the world and our place on the journey back to Gods presence. In the temple time and space cease to exist and we learn to see the world around us and ourselves from God’s perspective.
The Jews built temples to volcano GODS 🌋 and little volcano replicas that they put animals then sacrifice 🥶
Death Roe vs Weighed
the "church" quiet as a mouse
Why?
because they love a temple deadication! Yeah they use the magic spell dedication but the spoken word they say Temple Deadication
They say Temple =
another word for bode/"body" 🤔
So when they say Temple Deadication
They "pronouncing"🗣️ a dead body
They'd rather work for the Dead
than save them
by doing work for the living 🤰🧑🏻🍼
They suffer the little children & settle outta court
purchasing the silence of if victims 😞
such aB.O.M.iNation 💔
Most of the "members" they're good people with their hearts truly for god & love
Tragically the same with all the world they are D.C.eived
Death Cult
Doctrine Covenants
Deadication CONsecr A ti on
A few though "stuff" neck'ed 👔 people
Adam & Eve got sick
Adam & Eve ill 🤢
Evil eating from the tree of death
Tree of 3 branches
Jewdicial⚖️Legeslative🖋️Executive 🔫
Adam & Eve creATEd the Nation
AdamNation Evil
the sir pen't 🐍🖋️ Lucifer Devil Serpent
black magic
the black plague
Jewdicial⚖️Legeslative🖋️Executive 🔫
black Robes black Ink black Powder
R. I. P.
R.I.P. 🪦🪦
the LAW OF moses Not if god
A WOLF
first introduced in
the form of 2 stone tablets the form of tombstones 🪦🪦 one each for Adam & Eve
Later written on the parchment skin of dead animals
Later written on the paper of dead trees
"Those that hate "reject" truth
they love death" ☠️ deadication
D.C.eivers 🏛️ deceiving the world
Roman🗡️ Egyptian 👁️∆ D.C. Death Cult
D.C. they told you District of Columbia because they had to come up with something to deceive you to get you
Death Cult ☠️
Die Christ
Death Crucify ✝️
Dec eased Casket ⚰️
Devil CONstantine/ false CONversion
Dec eived CONgregation
Doctrine Covenants
D.C.eive Citizens
Divide ➗ CONquer 🌈 a nation with a
Democratic CONgress
Dollars 💵 Cents 🪙
Declaration CONstitution
CONmen of the CONdemNATION
Stars ⭐ & Stripes ✝️
🇺🇲 star flag ⭐ military 🪖 ⭐ BADge
Owl 🦉 hidden in ✈️ sight overhead view CAPITOL building walkways
Coins = Man in the moon 🌚🪙
⭐ 🇺🇲 🌚🪙🦉symbols of darkness
AdamNation lead into the darkness of NITE
u NITE d 🇺🇲
A nation of deaf & blind
1st SAMuel 8
SAM = Slave And Master
UNCLE "SAM it not you the people rejected"
They rejected me
why?
"Not because of good work but for blasphemy because you being mere man say that your our God"
UA-cam
Elect trick Election Fraud/ THIS IS HOW THEY DECEIVE YOU 🐑 EWE
black magic spells free dumb "freedom" because it makes the people deaf of what words they speak
re mission of sinS again & agin
mission ♈🐏Aries = RAMification
patriarch 💵 pay tree on 🐍
"pairable" magic spells make you deaf
UA-cam
Zeitgeist 2023 Adam & Eve
and others same channel
If not you will continue being slaves pickin' paper 💵 made of cotton & AdamNation of cotton pickin slaves building pyramids 💵 👁️∆ serving the one eyed GOD of MAMMON
Heaven is not an experience if the dead
heaven iz for the living!
love 💕 god
acSept truth &
be ye not Dec Eve'd/ D.C.eived
Why did God require temples in the Old Testament?
Jeff subscribes to a lay back, almost California surfer, perspective on the bible.
I think there is another perspective worth exploring, that of the "high church" or "liturgical/mass" churches vs "low church" that is often noticed in the orthodox/catholic/apostolic vs protestant churches, where in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we have both. In our meeting houses or church buildings, we have mostly "low church" or more protestant or evangelical worship is noticeable where the only "high church" or "liturgical/mass" church type of experience is a very short and simple sacrament ordicnace or communion. I think that from my understanding the lack of "liturgy/mass" or other "high church" types of worship is missing in protestantism or evangelicalism. Therefore, our "secret" rituals in the temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints come off wrong to an evangelical or protestant audience that has no correllary, which wouldn't be true for orthodox/catholic/apostolic Chrsitian churches, for which most of our temple ordinances have direct correlaries and are familiar to them. I think it is unfair to classify your brand of Christianity as the mainstream when there are other "mainstream" Christianities like Catholics and Orthodox and Apostolic churches that have everything you seem to be rejecting as unnecessary or not Christian. I think if you studied Orthodoxy and the Apostolic fathers you will find that Latter-day Saint doctrine and worship isn't that far off from the broader mainstream of Christianity, if you include non-protestants & non-evangelicals.
Catholics are not considered Christian. They themselves would not identify as Christian. Christianity is the only religion that teaches that there is nothing anyone could ever do to measure up to God's standard of perfection.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
It is only by the grace and mercy of God that anyone gets into heaven.
"Nothing in my hands I bring only to the cross I cling."
(Latter-day Saints worship a different God and Christ then the ones mentioned in the Bible.)
Also I can’t imagine a continuous vacation. If you under stood why we are here in the first place it would help you understand what we believe the afterlife is going to be like.
I think it would be best stated in the symbolic progression of man (generic) from a telestial mortal to a celestial being. Not just for ourselves but for our ancestors who haven't had the chance to do this for themselves. They without us cannot be made perfect, nor us without them, lest the Lord smite the earth with a curse. I believe that's found in Malachi.
Have you been made perfect?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do On my way, right?
I have a hard time watching this as it feel like standard anti-LDS content with a new spin. Just make videos about your own beliefs without bashing on someone else’s.
What part did it seem like he was bashing?
I love your channel! It's such a cool thing you're doing. Keep it up!
In the Book of Revelation, John sees the seals of the book opened. At the very end of the sixth seal, right at the opening of the seventh seal, John describes what he saw: (Chapter 7 verse 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
We Latter-day Saints take this vision of John literally.
I got super excited as I found out about this channel last year, but my excitement didn’t last long as I can’t stop feeling that Jeff’s only purpose is to convert us to main stream Christianity as he learns our hearts and minds. Main stream Christianity’s mentality alone doesn’t make any sense to me because the only requirement for salvation is to accept Jesus in your heart, and I don’t think there’s any other group out there taking it to the core as much as LDS members since we accept everything Jesus taught and did while we love it all and follow his teachings… in the meanwhile they justify their beliefs and behaviors against us saying and openly preaching that we got the wrong Jesus etc sounds just so shallow to me because of our differences in the doctrines - whoever or whatever God/Jesus is to them, they know He is all merciful and loving but in their minds that same Being would never accept or be satisfied with any LDS behaviors in trying to follow Jesus’s teachings? It’s just so hollow! Anyway, this point alone for me is just an example of lazy and irresponsible thinking about something so eternally important as Gods character and salvation while denying so many other teachings and verses of scripture of their own Bibles!
Also, as mentioned by others in the comment section in this video, there’s so much support of the Bible about temples and about every point of doctrine about our beliefs out there and it’s only required a humble and honest heart to find these things and to find truth, but the. Accusations they would have to face and things they would have to sacrifice is just so much to ever consider investigating our church; and while many big egos fashioned as true followers try to prove us wrong - a behavior I often see in the main stream Christianity everywhere around me - many say to their peers that reading the whole Holy Bible isn’t necessary at all, so for this lacking of studying alone - their “only” source of truth - many barely know the content that it holds, unless it’ll reinforce their wants and beliefs, being then easily manipulated into anything that sounds loving, soft and easy to their hearts/minds. Excuse me if I’m being too bold or even sarcastic in my statements, it’s coming from a place of frustration in honesty and respectably dealing with evangelical colleagues’ behaviors, many that always look us down as a satanic cult while their actions could never be more extreme and not Christlike at all as they walk through life like they got it all, changing nothing, feeling superior then anyone that don’t accept Jesus in their hearts and/or got the wrong one. Not impressed and it makes it understandable why so many people hates religion and religion groups due to this super boosted behavior as some think it’s a manipulation system for self gain while brainwashing weak minds, since many just go with the flow, nothing questioning while lacking in studying and pondering their own bibles.
Come and see by yourself with real intent to find truth is our only desire as we preach a living God that wants a one on one relationship with His children - individually. Meanwhile, LDS local leadership around every corner of the Earth aren’t trying to make any money from the members or their congregations, it’s quite the opposite, they sacrifice their time, talents and sometimes even money to help and serve those under their care, their sustainability comes from their own careers, it alone should speak volumes to the entire Earth about our fruits and hearts.
Thanks for your post.
The true and living God the Father is invisible and a spirit. Colossians 1:15; I Timothy 1:17; Hebrews 11:27;
I have read the entire Bible 41 times and have never found the teachings of the LDS church within its pages.
If there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing, there would still be nothing. God is the first, uncaused cause of everything you see. No one created God.
God is transcendent and lives outside of the universe. God did not come from another planet nor does he live near a star named Kolob.
God is eternal. Psalm 90:2 God has always been God. God never had to work his way to Godhood.
Unlike pagan gods, the true and living God is not married. God created Adam out of the dust of the ground and Eve out of Adam's rib, no wife needed!
God is self-existent. God does not need food, air, water, clothing, shelter, sleep, sex, or anything else a mere created being might need. Acts 17:24-25 God does not live in temples.
God does not damn people who deny the eternal principle of polygamy. (D&C 132) God would never destroy Emma if she didn't abide by her husband's adultery. (D&C 132:54, 64)
Why don't you worship the true and living God? The God who spoke Kolob into existence?
Hebrews 11, Genesis 1
God has commanded that only one temple was to be built. It must be in Jerusalem.
Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest, and King!
Jesus Christ requires perfection to get into heaven. You need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
Have you kept the commandments perfectly?
God has already told us that he is the only God there ever was, is, or will be.
Isaiah 43:10; 44:6; 45:5;
How is it that the LDS church knows more than God?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do I also did read the Bible many times, never counted though, but every time I do I learn something new, no matter how many times we read the scriptures, if we are trying to understand it with the power of the Holy Ghost, we we’ll keep learning right?
Malachi 3 is all about working and serving the Lord BEFORE the second coming of the Lord, and guess what? It’s in the temple, and I’m not aware of any other church out there that does it other than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It also talks about separating those that served the Lord from those that didn’t and that “you have gone away from my ordinances” as a correction to His children plus about his servant that would turn the hearts of the sons to their fathers and vice and versa, exactly and punctual the LDS doctrine and history. Please study it with the desire to know God’s will and teachings to us instead of selecting scriptures that fits someone’s narrative of the Bible and about his dealings with His children.
That’s the chapter for Malachi 3:
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.
13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts?
15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do The word God translated from Hebrew is plural. Just check any scholar talking about translation from Hebrew in the subject.
Also we agree that God is eternal but there’s no scripture saying He lives outside of the universe, it’s a conclusion must if us take.
Also God said to Abraham that he knew him before he was in the belly of his mother and that Moses saw God face to face etc etc… there’s a lot of teachings in the Bible that supports the Lds doctrine. Have no time now but if you want those scriptures and talk about God, let me know and I’ll bring you more references later.
@@tatiginattosantana
In order for a building to exist, there must be someone who exists independently of and outside of the building that created it.
You can't be part of the building, drywall, plumbing, electrical, etc., and at the same time be the builder.
*****
In order for a birthday cake to exist, there must be someone who exists independently of and outside of the birthday cake that created it.
You can't be part of the birthday cake and at the same time be the creator of it.
******
In order for this universe to exist, there must be Someone who exists independently of and lives outside of the universe that created the universe.
You can't be part of the universe and at the same time be the Creator.
********
Who created the LDS Heavenly Father with a body of flesh and bone?
Who created the planet that the LDS Heavenly Father came from?
Who created the star Kolob that he lives near?
Who created all his wives?
Why does he damn people who deny the eternal principle of polygamy? D&C 132
Etc.
God is one essence and three persons.
"Baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."
James 2:19
There is only one God.
Even demons know this.
Pastor Jeff, you would be more authentic if you stopped removing and hiding comments that call your behavior and objectives into question. You should address the concerns instead of hiding the fact that they exist. The behavior is that of a guilty man, not a man of God.
No idea what you’re referring to. I don’t remove comments unless they are disrespectful.
WOW! This was so wonderfully spoken. Thank you Pastor Jeff for always being so respectful. I don’t think there’s been a single video you’ve done where I didn’t feel the spirit of Jesus Christ. ❤
Hey Jeff,
You mention the Temple “works”.
In reality there is a difference to be understood.
You “receive” the endowment, there is really no work involved other than receiving a lesson on the creation, the garden, the fall, the redemption by Christ, and receiving covenant to commit officially your whole life to Christ.
Temple work is when you take time to receive the endowment for others as a proxy. It is not required for salvation. Many people who live far from the Temple will never do temple service as a proxy and they are not any less covered by the grace of Christ.
We are saved be grace despite all the good we may try to do, our works get us nowhere if Christ had not made his sacrifice for us all.
Pastor Jeff: A nicely done vlog about temples. I appreciate your perspective and insights. I only have one issue.
When you speak about the need for temples, you sound like you are taking the approach that we are deciding or you are deciding what is needful. If you believe that God left us the Bible and is no longer revealing His will to His children, then LDS and EvC are deciding based on scripture the best way to worship God.
If, on the other hand, God reveals His will to living prophets and apostles, as He did to Joseph Smith and others, then temples are not a creation based on man's wisdom, but what God has instituted.
God has revealed the need for temples as part of His work and glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. Continued revelation is the key to understanding temples and other differences between the Church and other Christian faiths.😊
This was well done. 👍
Jeff picks and chooses what to believe out of the bible, and his arrogance has him stand in judgement of what is right and what is wrong. He will say that LDS is wrong, and then proceed to talk about all his suppositions on a topic, with not answer, but he's sure that LDS is wrong, he just doesn't know what the right answer is. It is part of his arrogance.
We can still set an example for him and be patient, hoping and praying for him.
So, I may have missed it in a previous episode, but I note that you very obviously and awkwardly skirted the issue in this one: do you believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be a cult?
Not a cult!
@@templesofjesus I’m asking the creator of the video. The awkward skirting of the question actually ended up drawing attention to it.
@@DrumCorpsGuide I’d definitely be interested to know his answer as well!
Here is the definition of the noun cult "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object." By that definition, all of Christianity is a cult. The particular figure being Jesus Christ.
@@DrumCorpsGuide he won't be able to answer. Because either way, he'll worry about the reaction he'll get. The LDS will be more accepting of his answer though. If he answered negatively, he'd be persecuted by the Evangelicals. The LDS will just keep taking his family treats (if they live near him) and would probably keep watching the channel.
I loved this video Pastor Jeff! It really spoke to me when you talked about surrendering everything, including relationships to God so He can give you the identity and experiences that he wants. Very powerful stuff, and I think it's something we need to focus on more in our faith.
This is a very humble presentation of latter day saint temples. I personally go to the Saratoga Springs Temple every week to perform baptisms. I believe that it is a very important part of the latter day saint view of the world. My belief when I do proxy work is that if I wasn't able to do my own work while I was alive, I couldn't wait for someone to do my work for me! I have done work for people that have been waiting for hundreds of years. I could never wait that long!
16:55 you said that “those ideas are to be found nowhere in our construct” is a false and misleading statement Jeff. This is taught throughout the Holy Bible in both old and new testaments. One example👇but there are many more…
Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
What is a joint-heir actually mean?
In regards to Jesus being heir to his Father, he obtains the same title, wealth, power, dominion and all that the Father has shall be Christs. If we, who are joint-heirs with Christ reach that status, we too obtain all that the Father has, he being a God grants us the same power, might and dominion.
Only those who receive Christ become children of God. John 1:12
@@Elizabeth-rk3dook…the point is that Jeff said that wasn’t part of his (Mainstream Christianity’s) construct - but unless you all omit this from your Bible, it seems pretty clear.
@@mycatwould Ephesians 2 Everyone is born spiritually dead in their sins, children of wrath, children of disobedience and without hope in the world.
Isaiah 59:2 Our sins separate us from a holy God.
Christ told the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil because they refused to believe that he was God. John 8 Christ said that their sins would not be forgiven and they would be condemned.
Jesus Christ isn't Santa Claus.
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
As a child of God, I am an heir of Christ. 🙏
I know that my sins have been forgiven. I know that I have been made perfect because Christ has given to me his righteousness, which is the righteousness of God. I know that I have eternal life and will live forever with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 💕
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering Christ hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.
Come unto Christ and be perfected.
The question then is how would in going from a pastor with modern christian upbringing going to believing in temples... Well its through the book of Mormon. Pastors in the past have read the book of Mormon and have rejoiced in the truth. I've heard of pastors preaching the words of the book of mormon in there churches. When i was on my mission pastors we had talked to probably did more research into the church then most any of our friends investigating the church. It can be either very easy, meaning the easiest acceptance of the book of Mormon ever or the hardest. But its in reading praying and accepting the book of Mormon that will help you recieve joseph smith, and temples as Gods revelation on the earth. And that president Nielsen is the lords prophet. The book of mormon is true. Ive read it 70 times. And will read it the rest of my life. Along with the bible. I testify that the book of Mormon is the words of Jesus Christ. They are his words. The very same words found in the Bible. And Joseph Smith was God's prophet on the 🌎 earth. The priesthood has been restored. And family families are forever. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.
I haven't been to the Saint George temple, but that large meeting room with chairs facing each other is also in the Washington DC temple. I'm not sure what exactly it was used for, but one year, the Stake I was in held a conference in that room. It was like a small, regional general conference in its organization: several speakers, etc. But they mentioned during it that it was common back in the day to hold conferences in that large assembly room. I hope that's helpful insight.
Pastor Jeff I believe that salvation is not a reward it is a result of. We are here to prepare ourselves to live in a state of glory. The state of glory we end up in is dependent upon how we prepare. The guideline for our preparation is the life of Christ and his commitments. I am a Latter Day Saint and have been for 65 years since I was baptized on July 8 1953. I enjoy your comments.
This was very well done! Honest, thorough, and respectful.
Jeff, I loved your wife's words when you went to visit the Saratoga Springs temple. She said something along the lines of having a longing for evangelicals to have something like the temple. I believe that was the Spirit of the Lord speaking to her heart that the temples of the Church of Jesus Christ really are the house of the Lord on Earth. This church really is Jesus Christ's church and the only place to find His authority. Let the Holy Ghost touch your heart (which takes some pride swallowing) and you will know it as millions of others do. Wish you the best and hope you seek to build other's faith in Christ and His church and not to break it down.
Pastor Jeff, thank you for these videos. As a former Latter-day Saint and now Christian, I have found many Christians and evangelicals are not doing a good job of being respectful of Latter-day Saint tradition and beliefs, which is stumbling block for many Latter-day Saints who chose to leave. I appreciate you being respectful of Latter-day Saint beliefs. Although I don't share those beliefs any more, I do respect the faith of my ancestors. Have you thought about explaining how Hebrews Chapters 8-9 relates to the need for temples after Christ's ministry? I found these chapters very helpful in understanding why temples are no longer needed.