As a european "cycling snob" I get the feeling that the only thing missing from this whole legion thing is them calling their own crit series the world championships
I left a comment on Jeff’s channel. This has kicked off. Wouldn’t have done if Legion had just said nothing, but the take away from ILD fallout is, Legion is elitist and entitled. This will hurt Legions brand, probably has and should (no probably about that given they didn’t pay up and loaded the ‘deck’). Jeff’s comments are legit as were Olivia Ray’s comments. I had no f@@king idea what made her retract her post, management I guess? We owe our sport to the volunteers that make grass roots cycling possible, we don’t owe it to brands like Legion, Specialized or the UCI. Races like Alviso give the establishment the middle finger. I’ll watch the likes of Jeff and Claudio over Specialized/Rapha …oops sorry…I meant Legion all day long.
@@silvercyclist3744 At the time of your comment Olivia Ray was long time banned from cycling because of her doping. She was doping when racing the Into the Lion's Den. She got stripped this title and all titles prior and after that race. All her results of all those races the USADA and UCI were able to convict her were nullified. This are quite a lot. Olivia Ray was cheating for quite a time, years, killing the competition and had the audacity to cry for her prize money. This says a lot about that foul character of hers. Now we understand why she had no patience to wait for the money. She probably wanted to collect the money before she got convicted and banned. She knew quite well that she wasn't deserving the title and prize money. Now that she lost the title she is also sentenced to pay back the prize money. You can imagine how the story continues. Know what? She never did pay back a dime. Money spend, who knows. She effectively stole the win and stole the prize money. Still people feel sorry for her, defending her, rendering her as a victim. That's sick - in the baddest way. We can argue whether Legion is harming the sport or not. But there should be a consensus that athletes like Olivia Ray are the true danger., the true evil. They are responsible for the bad reputation this sport has. Legion on the other hand is one reason that the sport gains a positive reputation. Whether you like their style or not, they are definitely and undeniably an enrichment for the criterium scene. This fact, the missing outcry about that cheating criminal Olivia Ray that openly committed a fraud to steal money and ridiculed the efforts of her competitors, this makes the discussion about Legion extremely one-sided with a very questionable motivation. How would this discussion look like if the broken collarbone was the one of the other rider and the Legion rider had caused the crash? Where is the podcast about athletes like Olivia Ray? Why is she the canonized saint in this story? Why does everybody in this community is so focused on Legion to render them a disgrace while this sport is riddled with athletes that ridicule the competition by doping and irresponsible riding that constantly causes mass crashes? They are black, the other bandits are white, is this the true story behind this?
I say this as a Black cyclist: Does Legion receive hate because they're Black? Absolutely. No thoughtful and honest person can deny this. Does Legion do shit that would cause people to dislike them even if they were all White? Absolutely. No thoughtful and honest person can deny this. FWIW, what I find obnoxious is Legion using the former to discredit the latter. Answer honestly, if you can: would you honestly care about the race of someone who crashed you out? @@mindfreebodyfree5770
@@mindfreebodyfree5770 As a white guy with a wife that isn’t white and multi-race children, I clearly have a racist agenda. My interest in the Williams brothers came about through their cycling and Belizean heritage. Belize is a country I have had a long association with. Regarding the Legion post, the language used to respond to Jeff Linder’s criticism of the ILD was elitist and didn’t speak to a Legion’s values. That’s my opinion and my interpretation of what was written. IIRC,my takeaway from Legions comments was that my level of racing wasn’t worth anything. That’s nothing short of an insult to all those who volunteer every weekend to enable club racing. So I won’t apologise for calling them out on that. Given the column space you have given to describing Olivia Ray as ‘evil’ and a ‘criminal’, I could be forgiven for thinking that your narrative is that of a misogynist. Now, try reading my comment again without the ‘red mist’ and without the prejudice. Legions response was an insult and I’ve called it out.
Legion (Cory and Justin) promote equality and inclusion in the sport of bike racing, yet they consistently intimidate and bully those around them. I appreciate competitiveness and confidence, but the unhinged Instagram response to this video is a bad look for Legion. Jeff has provided so much value to myself and so many others through his channel. All the best, and thank you Jeff!
Agreed. Just saw the response from Legion and it's a terrible look for a professional organization. If you have to punch down so to speak (seeing as Norcal isn't pro), you merely explain the reasoning and not resort to ad hominem attacks. Most organizations simply do not respond to some criticisms because of the optics.
Agree 100%, I idolized Legion before. I have learned more from Jeff Linder (NorCal) and his channel and couch to crit series than from anybody else. He might not be a pro but he is a cycling personality already, he's humble, smart and is really great at reading races and teaching. Justin's response was childish to say the least, always playing the victim when receiving criticism which wasn't even that bad honestly I agree with Jeff.
It amuses me that Jeff has the best lighting and video feed quality, and yet there's a washer/dryer behind him which seems a bit disorganized but also makes him the most relatable.
Ahh the Alviso Jersey 😂 I remember winning it and being so stressed out about moving my job schedule around so I could go back the next week and bring the jersey so I dont look like a jerk hoarding it. But then I won it again... and the cycle would repeat itself. My boss hated me for those few weeks. Great episode! It's crazy how many channels have popped up basically doing what Jeff does (including myself)! I subbed when he was probably at about 1k subs and its just exploded
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I was working down in Santa Clara. It was about a 30 minute ride to get to Alviso, so long lunch breaks but man you get pretty fit doing it! I would ride to and from work as well.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I'm an engineer. I was working in a research lab. Lots of guys in the silicon valley have pretty flexible work or are early retired... Alviso pretty routinely can be 30 people or more
Great to see Jeff in a more casual setting. Really honest guy and if it weren't obvious his contribution to the sport is overwhelmingly positive. I attribute the majority of my success during my short time racing to the rave craft I learned watching his videos on repeat. Thanks for your time and commitment 👍
Not all that honest. He’s selling this kid as a new cyclist when in fact he has a long history with mountain biking, etc…But the headlines “double your FTP, he’s killing the training sessions, his body adapts amazingly, etc wouldn’t fly so well or get as many views if he told ppl the truth. I’m willing to bet big that his FTP was pretty high before and that he just took a break from cycling for a while when he retested and he got a low FTP
I really don't know what it means to be a "pro". All I know is that I watch Jeff's NorCal videos whenever he posts them. And they bring me a great deal of joy. I'm a 65 year old cyclist that is WAY past my prime. But his videos inspire me to ride more and as fast as these old legs will take me!
My interest for road cycling started trough the NorCal channel a year or so ago. It appeared being much more intelligent sport rather than just hours of mindless suffering that I thought of it before. And now I'm saving up for my first road bike.
Love to see all my favorite cycling UA-camrs join the show. It's almost like a late night chat show. I think it'd be fun to see some guests that are in the cycling world but aren't necessarily involved with UA-cam on the Nero Cycling Show. The discussions are very entertaining. Thanks!
Great interview, great show! As for the dangers of racing, etc., main thing is to ride while you can while you're young enough to compete. And when you can no longer race as you get older, ride because it's good for your health, and for the love of cycling. One has to shift from seeing cycling as a competition to seeing cycling as a stress relief and health enhancer. Just my two bits, at 71, as a life long amateur/recreational/commuter cyclist. Again, great dialogue and a great interview!
I've loved watching EJ's progress he works hard and it's good to see his success. We can all be proud crit parents watching him and cheering him on. I think that story is an important one in cycling media. Progression is important and a motivator for younger riders but it's often hyper focused on the top end missing out on the relatable portion even if EJ is miles ahead of where I would never be it's encouraging to see focused training gets results, you can progress as insurmountable as it seems.
27:16 I don't race because of the risk of crashing. I've already had a bad crash that required months of physical therapy, I don't want to deal with that again. I'm right next to the alviso races, I work literally down the street from them, but I just don't want to deal with the injury risk.
I totally hear that, happened to me in a crit in Northern Virginia in '84 when I was a fit young soldier stationed at the Pentagon and a generally fast guy on the bike, grew up on a Sting-Ray in California. But a flip and a bent steel frame and some serious back and wrist pain for a time, no therapy but still a major hassle when you are 24-years-old with a real life, and I was okay with stepping away from it all and no knock on anyone over the crash, it happens. And perhaps the most sickening outcome of my crash, four of us were in a break and we piled into each other when a young spectator darted across the course, was limping to where the local team was positioned in the infield and getting absolutely nothing from them, just glances into the sky as they waited for me to get out of their presence. And okay, I got it, I managed to drag my broken bike to my VW GTI and drive myself back to Ft. Myer and that was that. Still, I was glad to participate in sanctioned USCF races for two seasons and kudos to the USCF for overseeing the races and I was close to enough points for Cat. 2 and that would've been a nice accomplishment. Still, now at age 63, I am content and thankful to still be fit and ready to contend for something in the over-60 class at a gravel event one day soon. Maybe a trophy, maybe an also-ran ribbon, just great to make the scene no matter the outcome.
I fully agree... I am a very fit 25 years old guy and I would get nice experiences from racing. The problem is that we become idiots when we race on a bike. It looks like everyone is running for dear life
@@davidepetroni3137 And I think that's why off-road racing is getting so popular, a rider can get rowdy with a lesser risk of injury, either to oneself or others. And I even hurt for all of these professional pile-ups, so many these days and some top riders are getting their time at the top shortened by them, most unfortunate. And yet road cyclists insist on facing the asphalt at high-speeds in nothing more than an open-face helmet, shoes, and form-fitting fabric.
Best part about all these Nero episodes are when @chrismillercyling looks to the sky followed by "look I wasn't going to say it, Nah I'm going to say it" You know your in for some good view at that point of the episode. Great job guys and well done getting yet another great cycling UA-cam on the channel to discuss these topics.
The reality is next to UCI, social media has a massive impact in cycling. Jeff and a few others are undoubtedly the most well known cyclists below UCI level and are excellent ambassadors of the sport.
Awesome conversation. I'm a big fan of Jeff and NorCal (amazing seeing him grow!) and have come across a few of your videos (and Nero) so very happy this was served up in my YT recommendations. Great points on the UCI "Pro" connotations. There are 2 UCI Pro Conti teams registered in my city and the riders aren't paid
Crit racing in America amongst cat 1 and 2 in the 1980's up to 2023 have always been aggressive and dangerous.The racing field was always filled with enforcers,blockers and spirit breakers .If legion was not consistently wining, there tactics would have gone unnoticed.
During my career there was the Tuesday Nighter in Austin. 9 mile loop south east of town. This was during the 90's. Anybody could race. Lance would show up once in a while. It was free unsanctioned racing all summer long.
Great chat session with Jeff. Yes the noon time ride is very popular in and around silicon valley, there's very well known ride called the noon-ride. As for EJ?, the young guy - when you have the body that responds to training like that you can get really good really fast. It's great that he found the bike and is doing so well. To be young again:) Cheers on a enjoyable show once again.
Ahh, the midweek race! We used to have the Wednesday Night Smackdown. It was an unsanctioned handicap road race, a rolling loop on country roads about 30 miles long. It was created with the intention of having a high level race effort in the middle of each week to supplement people’s training. 40-50 people would show up. The handicap was- we’d divide into a ‘slow’ group and a ‘fast’ group that was roughly cat 3/4 and P/1/2. The slow group would leave first, and their job was to organize, paceline, drive full gas, don’t look back and try to finish ahead of the fast group. The fast group would give about 2 or 3 minutes and then roll after. Their job was to catch and overtake. So much fun!
As someone at home on disability after getting hit by a car 5 weeks ago (severe concussion) I don’t want to race or ride my bike at the moment…but I have crashed a bunch and had too many concussions…I love to ride my bike and I am sure a few months from now I will get back to it
Speaking of “things that matter”, it would be interesting if you guys did a segment on the progression to more aero positions. What does the journey look like? Does an inflexible person have to ride 13 hours a week to be conditioned for an aero position? When you ride less, do you lose the ability to hold an aero position? Is there an 80/20 rule for aero positions… easier things one can do to make a big impact?
Felt has sponsored Slipstream - Chipotle which is now EF Education Easypost. They also sponsored Garmin Slipstream. They had some great riders in the team such as Bradley Wiggins, Robert Miller, Tyler Farrar, Ryder Hesjedal, Christian Vande Velde. Alex Howes was a stagiaire for the team. Plus many more. They also sponsored Argos - Shimano which is now Team DSM. Marcel Kittel won 4 stages in 2013 riding for Argos -Shimano. Hope the brand gets back to former glory. Shame that they are hard to purchase in the UK.
My take on Legion is that they build their whole image and following saying they were the "underdogs" and that they race against the big names in cycling. Fast forward, they ARE the big dogs, the bullies, the ones riding in a Lamborghini to the races, having sponsors for every single thing they do, etc. So they became what they were running from in Europe. They came to dominate and bully everyone in the crit scene in the US. I remember a video they made about the Tesla Tough and they where so entitle to say that they control the race, that it was their race, that they race aggressive, that its a contact sport and if you don't like it you shouldn't race. They always say "you should respect the train". And now, as soon as someone challenge them, they get all defensive, they are quick to put their bullies to push people in the peloton and not anybody attack because they will get pushed out fearing to crash. There was a race that someone did a "aggressive" move according to one of the Williams and the whole team start trowing punches at him after the race. How you plan to invite people to race if you see this type of behavior? They have encourage lots of people to take a bike for the first time and maybe their target is different to people like us who are already in the sport. Maybe it's all just a marketing gimmick to invite other demographics to do cycling as recreational instead of compete? It's kind of what Lance was back in the day. Everyone in the crowd loved him, everyone cheer him, he was the one who raise from an adverse situation and made it, thousands of people started cycling because of him. But in the Peloton, nobody liked him, he was THE bully. Just like the Williams with their gang. Their Lions Den was just a joke to be honest. They won 1-2-3, and 2nd in the women's. It was just a way to show their own sponsors and to win their own money back.
Good conversation. One thing that surprised me was that there was little coverage of Jeff's masterclass project. Since it is similar to what Cam has done in the past with RCA, I thought you would do a compare and contract segment on that.
My two crashes where I've broken bones(one serious) is when the guy in question was strong but inexperienced so took out whole paceline I was in due to unpredictable riding. The other I was riding in a lower grade than normal due to being unfit. And got taken out by a guy who lost control and veered off to his left where I was at high speed. Those two crashes cost me 8.5months off work. So it's really hard to justify racing now, considering I'm just a mamil doing it for fun. I still do the odd race though.
Race rides in NorCal are fairly popular…there is a handful every weekend around Sacramento…some flats, some climbing…there are targets sprint points along the way…Alviso is a little unique as it starts and stops at same place and is really a short circuit where most other rides are out and back road rides
Legion and cohorts have a track record of squeezing competition into the barriers. if you are real competition to Legion, and are critical, you better believe they will retaliate in some form or other... Legion was first to develop a super elite US crit squad. they get credit for that. sooner or later however other teams will catch up, and when that happens, and there are 3-4 fully stacked, paid Professional 8 man teams racing together, we will see Legions true colors.
I have to be that guy... Team Mountain Khakis - directed by Adam Myerson (the Han Solo of crit racing), was the first to develop a UCI Continental team dedicated only to crits. They saw the marketability of it before anyone and only focused on crits for a number of seasons. That was followed up by Mike Tomao's UHC "blue train". A UCI Pro-Continental team (pro conti level is technically eligible to race the TDF) with a dedicated crit squad. The UHC blue train was the first super elite crit hit squad. They were Legion before Legion existed and beating them was almost impossible. Riders like, Carlos Alzate, Aldo Ilsic, Hilton Clark, Karl Menzies, Jake Keough, Luke Keough, Danny Summerhill and more. Dan Holloway became one of the only sprinters who could beat them domestically. Ryan Aitcheson often put up a good fight for the podium too. But UHC was famous for the full podium sweep. Go find the videos from these races dating from about 2011 until maybe 2017. When UHC rode, you needed verbal permission from them if you wanted to attack for a late race prime. The only reason there's room for Legion at the top is because team like UHC are gone... which is arguably a good thing because there's currently a lot more US riders getting paid salaries to race crits. I feel lucky to have raced "against" these teams even if I was never a factor in the races.
@@thhorwitz1 really interesting, thanks for that info. Maybe what has changed is that US Crits are higher profile now, so by default the highest performing teams are getting more spotlight? or maybe its as simple as the Williams Brothers have a more marketable story? its fascinating how they've been able to spin failure in the "big pond" of the European Pro peloton, into a success story in the small pond of US Crit racing....they will age out soon enough and what will be interesting to watch is: did they really create a Legion legacy, or just a Willams brothers media presence that requires their personal racing success to remain relevant.
@@etapepartners IMO the profile of individual races saw their peak a couple years ago and have taken a step backward for this year. But that's another conversation (i.e. most big races this year wont have live coverage). Cory and Justin are definitely a part of a massive shift in the popularity and way we view crits, no doubt and credit where credit is due. It really began when USACrits turned their series into a more exclusive product with less teams and an easier story for fans to follow all season. The marketing Usacrits began to provide brought all the biggest races together and people began to notice. It was affordable for teams to do their series as they provided meddia and logistical support. Around the same time, in 2013 Cory WIlliams published the San Rafael race video. People don't often think of it, but that video was pioneering. Until then no one had the balls to place a gopro atop the helmet because it looked so stupid. Also, no one had really set a race to good hype music, it was dubstep then. Most important was that Cory was the first to edit and cut his video so that it kind of told a mini story and turned into a short video that was watchable. Before that people would post boring full length races to youtube. Of course to make these amazing videos you need to have a person capable of getting on the podium as no one wants to watch packfill. But yes, I agree a lot of their story to this point has involved spin. At one point they spoke of not being given opportunities like you mentioned. Yet, Justin was once the sprinter on UCI team Astellas and walked off the team moments before starting Sunny King. He just left without explanation abandoning his teammates for the rest of the season. Both he and Cory would go on to ride for other teams after that, but it wasn't a good look. Then when they saw the opportunity to capitalize on the BLM trend, everyone sent them money. But no one even thought about the fact that their team has never been a 501c3 charitable organization. So one could possibly make the argument that they deceived the public when they took many of those funds, hired a number of white riders with some black ones thrown in, and started the Legion team. Now in that time they have done more than anyone to introduce the sport to an audience both high and low income from all backgrounds with a bit of focus on inner city kids. Any effort toward that is awsome, but the way they got there is a full of calling themselves victims I think. Justin is basically out for himself and family, working his but off to do whatever it takes to succeed, but with that I see someone who doesn't have much interest in uplifting the sport overall despite preaching that as one of his goals. I could cite reasons why I believe that to be true. Legion didn't have a lot of credit though until they won Tulsa. No one thought they would be very good outside an LA office park. But when they managed to execute an incredible leadout in Tulsa and win Blue Dome, it woke people up. Everyone said, oh shit they're for real. At that point people stopped discounting their ability to win. I think that what you see in the William's other 3 teams beside Legion is what you saw in UHC. That is, you can have the best roster on earth, but if you don't have that one in a million personality to carry the team to marketability, you'll be facing an uphill battle. That's why NCL pumps Clever Martinez so hard. He's got the thing Justin has that no one else has, that SMILE. Guys like Justin and Clever are rare because they are extroverts, great on social and can win. With that in mind, yes when Justin is gone, when his team doesn't have his personality in the race, it will be just another UHC winning races, but that's it. .... Justin knows this and that's why he's been trying to start a league where he owns the races and the teams. It's a way for him to make the most money out of the sport as he nears retirement because Red Bull wont pay him forever.
Was that a half-apology from Jesse for doubting EJ’s potential? 😂 Kudos to Jeff for the following he’s built, loving all these collab videos, your show is a great format to get these guys on for the interviews and unpack a bit more of what and they do what they do!
This discussion about Legion makes me glad I don't bother racing. Like a lot of things in life - when people's egos get involved it turns into a negative experience. I'll stick to my recreational solo sessions. I did enjoy the crit racing on GCN plus though.
I don't think he likes being called that. Maven👈 Plus a goat is something that eats grass. There's only one person in cycling that has been arguing with the cycling community for 20. Some odd years about cycling training. That is me. If there's any important figure in cycling that has made a difference in any way, that is me. I am the one who argued with every cycling channel and cycling coach about structure training and they were calling me a troll. 20. Some odd years later everyone's doing my workouts and have forgotten about our arguments. Everyone plays stupid. But the proof is on my Strava as far back as you go. The only thing you'll see is structured training. That's why my title is my title
Another great interview. You guys are just getting better and better. You realize that you have to continually outdo your previous show. An idea for your show based on my noticing that both you like to drill down into the little things: Each non-interview show, take a rule or two from the "Velominati - Keepers on the Cog" rules of cycling and drill down into it.
The ending was award as f* :D Chris why didn't you edited? Themes about ads / adwords / marketing are unique in this space. Very interesting. Much better than clickbait no content videos like "WHY IS THIS BIKE FAST?"
yeah, i do appreciate the candour from these two presenters, it leads to honest q&a, but they could use with a bit of prep and production polish. the business is media afterall.
I have a recommendation about the way you are filming your podcast : warmer lights and backgroud. The way Jeff is filming himself is almost too dark but no direct lights and a lot more pleasing/relaxing to the eyes. I think a podcast should look comfy, kinda Joe Rogan style if you want...
Your comments on the crash for Legion… sometimes diving corners to move up is fine. If someone leaves it open and you can undercut them then if is their problem. I moved up many a crit by diving corners in crits. Never crashed anyone in my attempts.
I don't think it's good to be afraid but it is good to know your abilities and limits. You have to be able to look at things rationally like is it worth it to rail this corner in the wet to potentially give me a win in a practice race where there is little to gain.
It is portrayed like it’s EJ’s first bike since childhood and he’s somehow a beast. But his Strava says he’s been riding more than 90% of the people I know for the past couple years.
Remember in that movie where the young up and coming cyclist catches up to his favorite team on a training ride, holds their wheel, then one of them sticks something in his spokes to make him crash? Then he goes home and rips their poster off of his wall? I just got the same kind of disgusted feeling when hearing about the details of the Legion crit.
For reference the rider in blue hit the barriers on corner exit. He had too too much speed to make the corner and look out the legion rider in the process
And to Chris' point about seeing large crowds of "fans" by the road for a crit due to what Legion has done for the sport.... at least based on my experience at Athens Twilight crit, it's because for that one night in the year, the open container laws are relaxed and people are allowed to drink on the streets and cheer the riders on. Hence, most aren't pure cycling fans but just out to have drinks and enjoy seeing riders race by. Definitely not because of the "Legion effect"
To make a light climbing bike with rim brakes makes sense, but when descending from a long climb disc brakes would be better. Which one of these plays a bigger factor?
When someone complains about the fact that Legion had 2 team at the Lions' Den event shows they have never read the story of Daniel in the lions' den in the bible. By definition it took a miracle for Daniel to survive a literal den of lions.
Use of the term ‘demonstration sport’ is apt and fits with the view that sport is a form of entertainment. As some push the boundaries of entertainment.
I enjoyed the video. Thanks. Regarding Legion, whether you like them or not, I think from the marketing perspective they have given a lot of exposure to the sport and it is good to see they are pushing for diversity in the sport. I am not familiar enough with the sport on a competitive level to expertly say they are bad for the sport ask I am a recreational cyclist and enjoy the sport of cycling, but I have observed via videos that many of the tactics they are accused of doing are also done by other teams as well. Whether they are to be portrayed as the heel or not, I think in any sport, there are certain lines of sportsmanship and safety that shouldn’t be crossed.
I race Legion nearly every weekend here in SoCal. I have never been on the receiving end of any pushes but have seen it. They definitely are the most dominate team out there and I wish they could be take the criticism better. I totally agree with Jeff on these riders that have no business being on the course. There are so many sketchy riders that need more time riding with others and bike handling skills. Way too many Zwift warriors with zero common sense, understanding of safe lines, bike handling etc.
Dude they ain’t trying to hear this. lol. The hate is real on social media and only from people that don’t ride in the same races. And fools like me comment also not a rider. But can see the social media run wild
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As a european "cycling snob" I get the feeling that the only thing missing from this whole legion thing is them calling their own crit series the world championships
😂
I left a comment on Jeff’s channel. This has kicked off. Wouldn’t have done if Legion had just said nothing, but the take away from ILD fallout is, Legion is elitist and entitled. This will hurt Legions brand, probably has and should (no probably about that given they didn’t pay up and loaded the ‘deck’). Jeff’s comments are legit as were Olivia Ray’s comments. I had no f@@king idea what made her retract her post, management I guess? We owe our sport to the volunteers that make grass roots cycling possible, we don’t owe it to brands like Legion, Specialized or the UCI. Races like Alviso give the establishment the middle finger. I’ll watch the likes of Jeff and Claudio over Specialized/Rapha …oops sorry…I meant Legion all day long.
@@silvercyclist3744 At the time of your comment Olivia Ray was long time banned from cycling because of her doping. She was doping when racing the Into the Lion's Den. She got stripped this title and all titles prior and after that race. All her results of all those races the USADA and UCI were able to convict her were nullified. This are quite a lot.
Olivia Ray was cheating for quite a time, years, killing the competition and had the audacity to cry for her prize money. This says a lot about that foul character of hers. Now we understand why she had no patience to wait for the money. She probably wanted to collect the money before she got convicted and banned. She knew quite well that she wasn't deserving the title and prize money. Now that she lost the title she is also sentenced to pay back the prize money. You can imagine how the story continues.
Know what? She never did pay back a dime. Money spend, who knows. She effectively stole the win and stole the prize money. Still people feel sorry for her, defending her, rendering her as a victim. That's sick - in the baddest way.
We can argue whether Legion is harming the sport or not. But there should be a consensus that athletes like Olivia Ray are the true danger., the true evil. They are responsible for the bad reputation this sport has. Legion on the other hand is one reason that the sport gains a positive reputation. Whether you like their style or not, they are definitely and undeniably an enrichment for the criterium scene.
This fact, the missing outcry about that cheating criminal Olivia Ray that openly committed a fraud to steal money and ridiculed the efforts of her competitors, this makes the discussion about Legion extremely one-sided with a very questionable motivation.
How would this discussion look like if the broken collarbone was the one of the other rider and the Legion rider had caused the crash?
Where is the podcast about athletes like Olivia Ray? Why is she the canonized saint in this story?
Why does everybody in this community is so focused on Legion to render them a disgrace while this sport is riddled with athletes that ridicule the competition by doping and irresponsible riding that constantly causes mass crashes?
They are black, the other bandits are white, is this the true story behind this?
I say this as a Black cyclist: Does Legion receive hate because they're Black? Absolutely. No thoughtful and honest person can deny this.
Does Legion do shit that would cause people to dislike them even if they were all White? Absolutely. No thoughtful and honest person can deny this. FWIW, what I find obnoxious is Legion using the former to discredit the latter.
Answer honestly, if you can: would you honestly care about the race of someone who crashed you out?
@@mindfreebodyfree5770
@@mindfreebodyfree5770 As a white guy with a wife that isn’t white and multi-race children, I clearly have a racist agenda. My interest in the Williams brothers came about through their cycling and Belizean heritage. Belize is a country I have had a long association with.
Regarding the Legion post, the language used to respond to Jeff Linder’s criticism of the ILD was elitist and didn’t speak to a Legion’s values. That’s my opinion and my interpretation of what was written. IIRC,my takeaway from Legions comments was that my level of racing wasn’t worth anything. That’s nothing short of an insult to all those who volunteer every weekend to enable club racing. So I won’t apologise for calling them out on that.
Given the column space you have given to describing Olivia Ray as ‘evil’ and a ‘criminal’, I could be forgiven for thinking that your narrative is that of a misogynist.
Now, try reading my comment again without the ‘red mist’ and without the prejudice. Legions response was an insult and I’ve called it out.
Legion (Cory and Justin) promote equality and inclusion in the sport of bike racing, yet they consistently intimidate and bully those around them. I appreciate competitiveness and confidence, but the unhinged Instagram response to this video is a bad look for Legion. Jeff has provided so much value to myself and so many others through his channel. All the best, and thank you Jeff!
Agreed. Just saw the response from Legion and it's a terrible look for a professional organization. If you have to punch down so to speak (seeing as Norcal isn't pro), you merely explain the reasoning and not resort to ad hominem attacks. Most organizations simply do not respond to some criticisms because of the optics.
Agree 100%, I idolized Legion before. I have learned more from Jeff Linder (NorCal) and his channel and couch to crit series than from anybody else. He might not be a pro but he is a cycling personality already, he's humble, smart and is really great at reading races and teaching. Justin's response was childish to say the least, always playing the victim when receiving criticism which wasn't even that bad honestly I agree with Jeff.
@@khwang89466 Where Is the response.
Exactly
I always thought from the day one that they promoting "equality & inclusion" is juat for marketing purposes.
It amuses me that Jeff has the best lighting and video feed quality, and yet there's a washer/dryer behind him which seems a bit disorganized but also makes him the most relatable.
feels like hes just one of us.
I didn't even notice the background, haha.
we’re all a guy in our garage vibing on bikes, some us hubbards others punters
Ahh the Alviso Jersey 😂 I remember winning it and being so stressed out about moving my job schedule around so I could go back the next week and bring the jersey so I dont look like a jerk hoarding it. But then I won it again... and the cycle would repeat itself. My boss hated me for those few weeks. Great episode! It's crazy how many channels have popped up basically doing what Jeff does (including myself)! I subbed when he was probably at about 1k subs and its just exploded
Well that is a fun story 😂 where did you work?
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I was working down in Santa Clara. It was about a 30 minute ride to get to Alviso, so long lunch breaks but man you get pretty fit doing it! I would ride to and from work as well.
What was your occupation?
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I'm an engineer. I was working in a research lab. Lots of guys in the silicon valley have pretty flexible work or are early retired... Alviso pretty routinely can be 30 people or more
@@ChainlessTV interesting. So you guys were using foreskin to make facial cream? Ha ha ha JJ 😁😆
Great to see Jeff in a more casual setting. Really honest guy and if it weren't obvious his contribution to the sport is overwhelmingly positive. I attribute the majority of my success during my short time racing to the rave craft I learned watching his videos on repeat. Thanks for your time and commitment 👍
Not all that honest. He’s selling this kid as a new cyclist when in fact he has a long history with mountain biking, etc…But the headlines “double your FTP, he’s killing the training sessions, his body adapts amazingly, etc wouldn’t fly so well or get as many views if he told ppl the truth. I’m willing to bet big that his FTP was pretty high before and that he just took a break from cycling for a while when he retested and he got a low FTP
Legion glorifies the bumping and grinding, then plays victim when they are on the receiving end of that glory.
There’s a name for this, it’s called the LeBron James tactic
@@quincywalker4441pretty sure jordan Kobe and shaq too Charles Barkley every great over 6’5” if you wanna go there
I really don't know what it means to be a "pro". All I know is that I watch Jeff's NorCal videos whenever he posts them. And they bring me a great deal of joy. I'm a 65 year old cyclist that is WAY past my prime. But his videos inspire me to ride more and as fast as these old legs will take me!
Guy that caused the legion crash didn’t make the turn himself. He crashed into the barriers.
1-2 hour lunchtime breaks for exercise is definitely a Silicon Valley thing. I had coworkers who would go for 10 mile runs during the day.
My interest for road cycling started trough the NorCal channel a year or so ago. It appeared being much more intelligent sport rather than just hours of mindless suffering that I thought of it before. And now I'm saving up for my first road bike.
Love to see all my favorite cycling UA-camrs join the show. It's almost like a late night chat show. I think it'd be fun to see some guests that are in the cycling world but aren't necessarily involved with UA-cam on the Nero Cycling Show. The discussions are very entertaining. Thanks!
Have you guys reached out to peak torque for an episode? Also awesome to see Jeff on!!
Yeah, Cameron is a great kid
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed i would also enjoy dylan johnson on 😊
@@oplechlmoriki Yeah Dylan is a good kid for sure! 👍
Get Dylan on please !! 👍
Backwards hat dylan
Great interview, great show! As for the dangers of racing, etc., main thing is to ride while you can while you're young enough to compete. And when you can no longer race as you get older, ride because it's good for your health, and for the love of cycling. One has to shift from seeing cycling as a competition to seeing cycling as a stress relief and health enhancer. Just my two bits, at 71, as a life long amateur/recreational/commuter cyclist. Again, great dialogue and a great interview!
I've loved watching EJ's progress he works hard and it's good to see his success. We can all be proud crit parents watching him and cheering him on.
I think that story is an important one in cycling media. Progression is important and a motivator for younger riders but it's often hyper focused on the top end missing out on the relatable portion even if EJ is miles ahead of where I would never be it's encouraging to see focused training gets results, you can progress as insurmountable as it seems.
27:16 I don't race because of the risk of crashing. I've already had a bad crash that required months of physical therapy, I don't want to deal with that again. I'm right next to the alviso races, I work literally down the street from them, but I just don't want to deal with the injury risk.
I totally hear that, happened to me in a crit in Northern Virginia in '84 when I was a fit young soldier stationed at the Pentagon and a generally fast guy on the bike, grew up on a Sting-Ray in California. But a flip and a bent steel frame and some serious back and wrist pain for a time, no therapy but still a major hassle when you are 24-years-old with a real life, and I was okay with stepping away from it all and no knock on anyone over the crash, it happens. And perhaps the most sickening outcome of my crash, four of us were in a break and we piled into each other when a young spectator darted across the course, was limping to where the local team was positioned in the infield and getting absolutely nothing from them, just glances into the sky as they waited for me to get out of their presence. And okay, I got it, I managed to drag my broken bike to my VW GTI and drive myself back to Ft. Myer and that was that. Still, I was glad to participate in sanctioned USCF races for two seasons and kudos to the USCF for overseeing the races and I was close to enough points for Cat. 2 and that would've been a nice accomplishment. Still, now at age 63, I am content and thankful to still be fit and ready to contend for something in the over-60 class at a gravel event one day soon. Maybe a trophy, maybe an also-ran ribbon, just great to make the scene no matter the outcome.
I fully agree... I am a very fit 25 years old guy and I would get nice experiences from racing. The problem is that we become idiots when we race on a bike. It looks like everyone is running for dear life
@@davidepetroni3137 And I think that's why off-road racing is getting so popular, a rider can get rowdy with a lesser risk of injury, either to oneself or others. And I even hurt for all of these professional pile-ups, so many these days and some top riders are getting their time at the top shortened by them, most unfortunate. And yet road cyclists insist on facing the asphalt at high-speeds in nothing more than an open-face helmet, shoes, and form-fitting fabric.
by far my most favorite cycling content on youtube! hats off to you guys!
❤️
Best part about all these Nero episodes are when @chrismillercyling looks to the sky followed by "look I wasn't going to say it, Nah I'm going to say it" You know your in for some good view at that point of the episode. Great job guys and well done getting yet another great cycling UA-cam on the channel to discuss these topics.
This is my favourite podcast now, I love the guests
The reality is next to UCI, social media has a massive impact in cycling. Jeff and a few others are undoubtedly the most well known cyclists below UCI level and are excellent ambassadors of the sport.
Awesome conversation. I'm a big fan of Jeff and NorCal (amazing seeing him grow!) and have come across a few of your videos (and Nero) so very happy this was served up in my YT recommendations. Great points on the UCI "Pro" connotations. There are 2 UCI Pro Conti teams registered in my city and the riders aren't paid
Crit racing in America amongst cat 1 and 2 in the 1980's up to 2023 have always been aggressive and dangerous.The racing field was always filled with enforcers,blockers and spirit breakers .If legion was not consistently wining, there tactics would have gone unnoticed.
These episodes where you get an other UA-camr on are really interesting.
It can get very interesting
Ever thought of getting Charlie Carbs Cycling as a guest?
Found this out from the drama. I think some credible discussion. It’s not so clear which is why there can be a discussion 33:00
Your format is great - quickly becoming my favorite UA-cam cycling content... Kudos
During my career there was the Tuesday Nighter in Austin. 9 mile loop south east of town. This was during the 90's. Anybody could race. Lance would show up once in a while. It was free unsanctioned racing all summer long.
Stoked to see Jeff here!
My name is Jeff 🥴
These podcasts are amazing!! Looking forward to hearing from more of your guests. New subscriber forsure
Great chat session with Jeff. Yes the noon time ride is very popular in and around silicon valley, there's very well known ride called the noon-ride. As for EJ?, the young guy - when you have the body that responds to training like that you can get really good really fast. It's great that he found the bike and is doing so well. To be young again:) Cheers on a enjoyable show once again.
Regarding the Legion clip, a new video has shown the guy in blue did not make the corner, not even close. He went straight into the barrier
Any links, would love to see a different angle
Jeez. Jeff even said we needed more information before making a final call on the crash. That was a great take. Great pod cast. Very mature.
A suggestion for the Alviso, should be a pair of White bib shorts
Ahh, the midweek race! We used to have the Wednesday Night Smackdown. It was an unsanctioned handicap road race, a rolling loop on country roads about 30 miles long. It was created with the intention of having a high level race effort in the middle of each week to supplement people’s training. 40-50 people would show up. The handicap was- we’d divide into a ‘slow’ group and a ‘fast’ group that was roughly cat 3/4 and P/1/2. The slow group would leave first, and their job was to organize, paceline, drive full gas, don’t look back and try to finish ahead of the fast group. The fast group would give about 2 or 3 minutes and then roll after. Their job was to catch and overtake. So much fun!
As someone at home on disability after getting hit by a car 5 weeks ago (severe concussion) I don’t want to race or ride my bike at the moment…but I have crashed a bunch and had too many concussions…I love to ride my bike and I am sure a few months from now I will get back to it
Speaking of “things that matter”, it would be interesting if you guys did a segment on the progression to more aero positions. What does the journey look like? Does an inflexible person have to ride 13 hours a week to be conditioned for an aero position? When you ride less, do you lose the ability to hold an aero position? Is there an 80/20 rule for aero positions… easier things one can do to make a big impact?
Felt has sponsored Slipstream - Chipotle which is now EF Education Easypost. They also sponsored Garmin Slipstream. They had some great riders in the team such as Bradley Wiggins, Robert Miller, Tyler Farrar, Ryder Hesjedal, Christian Vande Velde. Alex Howes was a stagiaire for the team. Plus many more. They also sponsored Argos - Shimano which is now Team DSM. Marcel Kittel won 4 stages in 2013 riding for Argos -Shimano. Hope the brand gets back to former glory. Shame that they are hard to purchase in the UK.
Thanks!
Great content, every week!
My take on Legion is that they build their whole image and following saying they were the "underdogs" and that they race against the big names in cycling. Fast forward, they ARE the big dogs, the bullies, the ones riding in a Lamborghini to the races, having sponsors for every single thing they do, etc. So they became what they were running from in Europe. They came to dominate and bully everyone in the crit scene in the US.
I remember a video they made about the Tesla Tough and they where so entitle to say that they control the race, that it was their race, that they race aggressive, that its a contact sport and if you don't like it you shouldn't race. They always say "you should respect the train". And now, as soon as someone challenge them, they get all defensive, they are quick to put their bullies to push people in the peloton and not anybody attack because they will get pushed out fearing to crash. There was a race that someone did a "aggressive" move according to one of the Williams and the whole team start trowing punches at him after the race. How you plan to invite people to race if you see this type of behavior?
They have encourage lots of people to take a bike for the first time and maybe their target is different to people like us who are already in the sport. Maybe it's all just a marketing gimmick to invite other demographics to do cycling as recreational instead of compete? It's kind of what Lance was back in the day. Everyone in the crowd loved him, everyone cheer him, he was the one who raise from an adverse situation and made it, thousands of people started cycling because of him. But in the Peloton, nobody liked him, he was THE bully. Just like the Williams with their gang.
Their Lions Den was just a joke to be honest. They won 1-2-3, and 2nd in the women's. It was just a way to show their own sponsors and to win their own money back.
Best chat yet. You seem to really get on well. Could counter points and conversation.
Great video with Jeff! Love NorCal!
Good conversation. One thing that surprised me was that there was little coverage of Jeff's masterclass project. Since it is similar to what Cam has done in the past with RCA, I thought you would do a compare and contract segment on that.
Wonderful video. Great questions for Jeff. I watch his channel(s) frequently, and I learned a lot because of your questions. Thank you!
My two crashes where I've broken bones(one serious) is when the guy in question was strong but inexperienced so took out whole paceline I was in due to unpredictable riding. The other I was riding in a lower grade than normal due to being unfit. And got taken out by a guy who lost control and veered off to his left where I was at high speed. Those two crashes cost me 8.5months off work. So it's really hard to justify racing now, considering I'm just a mamil doing it for fun. I still do the odd race though.
Race rides in NorCal are fairly popular…there is a handful every weekend around Sacramento…some flats, some climbing…there are targets sprint points along the way…Alviso is a little unique as it starts and stops at same place and is really a short circuit where most other rides are out and back road rides
The risk thing is interesting. Here in the UK, a closed circuit crit is paradoxically both safer - no cars and has an increased risk of crashing.
Legion and cohorts have a track record of squeezing competition into the barriers. if you are real competition to Legion, and are critical, you better believe they will retaliate in some form or other... Legion was first to develop a super elite US crit squad. they get credit for that. sooner or later however other teams will catch up, and when that happens, and there are 3-4 fully stacked, paid Professional 8 man teams racing together, we will see Legions true colors.
I have to be that guy... Team Mountain Khakis - directed by Adam Myerson (the Han Solo of crit racing), was the first to develop a UCI Continental team dedicated only to crits. They saw the marketability of it before anyone and only focused on crits for a number of seasons. That was followed up by Mike Tomao's UHC "blue train". A UCI Pro-Continental team (pro conti level is technically eligible to race the TDF) with a dedicated crit squad. The UHC blue train was the first super elite crit hit squad. They were Legion before Legion existed and beating them was almost impossible. Riders like, Carlos Alzate, Aldo Ilsic, Hilton Clark, Karl Menzies, Jake Keough, Luke Keough, Danny Summerhill and more. Dan Holloway became one of the only sprinters who could beat them domestically. Ryan Aitcheson often put up a good fight for the podium too. But UHC was famous for the full podium sweep. Go find the videos from these races dating from about 2011 until maybe 2017. When UHC rode, you needed verbal permission from them if you wanted to attack for a late race prime. The only reason there's room for Legion at the top is because team like UHC are gone... which is arguably a good thing because there's currently a lot more US riders getting paid salaries to race crits. I feel lucky to have raced "against" these teams even if I was never a factor in the races.
@@thhorwitz1 really interesting, thanks for that info. Maybe what has changed is that US Crits are higher profile now, so by default the highest performing teams are getting more spotlight? or maybe its as simple as the Williams Brothers have a more marketable story? its fascinating how they've been able to spin failure in the "big pond" of the European Pro peloton, into a success story in the small pond of US Crit racing....they will age out soon enough and what will be interesting to watch is: did they really create a Legion legacy, or just a Willams brothers media presence that requires their personal racing success to remain relevant.
@@etapepartners IMO the profile of individual races saw their peak a couple years ago and have taken a step backward for this year. But that's another conversation (i.e. most big races this year wont have live coverage).
Cory and Justin are definitely a part of a massive shift in the popularity and way we view crits, no doubt and credit where credit is due. It really began when USACrits turned their series into a more exclusive product with less teams and an easier story for fans to follow all season. The marketing Usacrits began to provide brought all the biggest races together and people began to notice. It was affordable for teams to do their series as they provided meddia and logistical support. Around the same time, in 2013 Cory WIlliams published the San Rafael race video. People don't often think of it, but that video was pioneering. Until then no one had the balls to place a gopro atop the helmet because it looked so stupid. Also, no one had really set a race to good hype music, it was dubstep then. Most important was that Cory was the first to edit and cut his video so that it kind of told a mini story and turned into a short video that was watchable. Before that people would post boring full length races to youtube. Of course to make these amazing videos you need to have a person capable of getting on the podium as no one wants to watch packfill.
But yes, I agree a lot of their story to this point has involved spin. At one point they spoke of not being given opportunities like you mentioned. Yet, Justin was once the sprinter on UCI team Astellas and walked off the team moments before starting Sunny King. He just left without explanation abandoning his teammates for the rest of the season. Both he and Cory would go on to ride for other teams after that, but it wasn't a good look. Then when they saw the opportunity to capitalize on the BLM trend, everyone sent them money. But no one even thought about the fact that their team has never been a 501c3 charitable organization. So one could possibly make the argument that they deceived the public when they took many of those funds, hired a number of white riders with some black ones thrown in, and started the Legion team. Now in that time they have done more than anyone to introduce the sport to an audience both high and low income from all backgrounds with a bit of focus on inner city kids. Any effort toward that is awsome, but the way they got there is a full of calling themselves victims I think. Justin is basically out for himself and family, working his but off to do whatever it takes to succeed, but with that I see someone who doesn't have much interest in uplifting the sport overall despite preaching that as one of his goals. I could cite reasons why I believe that to be true.
Legion didn't have a lot of credit though until they won Tulsa. No one thought they would be very good outside an LA office park. But when they managed to execute an incredible leadout in Tulsa and win Blue Dome, it woke people up. Everyone said, oh shit they're for real. At that point people stopped discounting their ability to win.
I think that what you see in the William's other 3 teams beside Legion is what you saw in UHC. That is, you can have the best roster on earth, but if you don't have that one in a million personality to carry the team to marketability, you'll be facing an uphill battle. That's why NCL pumps Clever Martinez so hard. He's got the thing Justin has that no one else has, that SMILE. Guys like Justin and Clever are rare because they are extroverts, great on social and can win. With that in mind, yes when Justin is gone, when his team doesn't have his personality in the race, it will be just another UHC winning races, but that's it. .... Justin knows this and that's why he's been trying to start a league where he owns the races and the teams. It's a way for him to make the most money out of the sport as he nears retirement because Red Bull wont pay him forever.
@@thhorwitz1 well said.
@KarbohJørneKraft Well said indeed. Compared to @njkl you seemed to be foaming at the mouth while typing.
Was that a half-apology from Jesse for doubting EJ’s potential? 😂
Kudos to Jeff for the following he’s built, loving all these collab videos, your show is a great format to get these guys on for the interviews and unpack a bit more of what and they do what they do!
This discussion about Legion makes me glad I don't bother racing. Like a lot of things in life - when people's egos get involved it turns into a negative experience. I'll stick to my recreational solo sessions. I did enjoy the crit racing on GCN plus though.
Fascinating insight into the respective regional racing scenes. Great stuff!
Really enjoyed this one. Jeff looks like a Star Wars pilot in this video.
We need The Goat on the pod. btw I'm talking about Cycling Maven
I don't think he likes being called that. Maven👈
Plus a goat is something that eats grass.
There's only one person in cycling that has been arguing with the cycling community for 20. Some odd years about cycling training. That is me.
If there's any important figure in cycling that has made a difference in any way, that is me.
I am the one who argued with every cycling channel and cycling coach about structure training and they were calling me a troll.
20. Some odd years later everyone's doing my workouts and have forgotten about our arguments.
Everyone plays stupid.
But the proof is on my Strava as far back as you go. The only thing you'll see is structured training.
That's why my title is my title
Go Jeff go! Love the insights.
Good one! The alviso sounds somewhat like the boxing day papas in Perth!!
Another great interview. You guys are just getting better and better. You realize that you have to continually outdo your previous show. An idea for your show based on my noticing that both you like to drill down into the little things: Each non-interview show, take a rule or two from the "Velominati - Keepers on the Cog" rules of cycling and drill down into it.
No-one has spread more discontent than Legion.
Comments like this is why
Jeff is the God of crit racing for me. Atleast for me 😁
Loving the show at the moment chaps, firmly part of my Zwift watching protocol this season.
Love to have a talk on the UA-cam sponser thing.
Whoa the crit bawss is on my new favorite podcast! Had to turn the notification bell to pick these up asap. ❤❤❤
1980’s there was lunch race/ride at Mission College, Santa Clara
Great chat, loving these shows
Bring EJ and Jeff back to the channel! Thanks!
Great to see my fellow Cali on your channel.
The ending was award as f* :D Chris why didn't you edited?
Themes about ads / adwords / marketing are unique in this space. Very interesting. Much better than clickbait no content videos like "WHY IS THIS BIKE FAST?"
yeah, i do appreciate the candour from these two presenters, it leads to honest q&a, but they could use with a bit of prep and production polish. the business is media afterall.
Great segment. Well worth my hour + on a Sunday morning.
Came for the line up, stayed for the Connacht rugby jersey, I see you Chris!
Great episode lads. Interesting perspectives from Jeff.
the pod video quality is perfect to viewing on the TV
I have a recommendation about the way you are filming your podcast : warmer lights and backgroud. The way Jeff is filming himself is almost too dark but no direct lights and a lot more pleasing/relaxing to the eyes. I think a podcast should look comfy, kinda Joe Rogan style if you want...
Ha ha ha most don't watch they listen .
Do you make porn? Ha ha ha lmfaooo00 🤣
Your comments on the crash for Legion… sometimes diving corners to move up is fine. If someone leaves it open and you can undercut them then if is their problem. I moved up many a crit by diving corners in crits. Never crashed anyone in my attempts.
I don't think it's good to be afraid but it is good to know your abilities and limits. You have to be able to look at things rationally like is it worth it to rail this corner in the wet to potentially give me a win in a practice race where there is little to gain.
Great episode and information!
Totally reasonable takes on legion.
thanks Chris and Jesse.
Great interview and conversation.
It is portrayed like it’s EJ’s first bike since childhood and he’s somehow a beast. But his Strava says he’s been riding more than 90% of the people I know for the past couple years.
Still love the series. But I can see where the feedback comes from.
Chris - love the Connacht rugby jersey!
2 of my favorite shows for sure
Remember in that movie where the young up and coming cyclist catches up to his favorite team on a training ride, holds their wheel, then one of them sticks something in his spokes to make him crash? Then he goes home and rips their poster off of his wall? I just got the same kind of disgusted feeling when hearing about the details of the Legion crit.
Breaking away
Is your group ride the 5pm one in Centennial Park. Always loved coming the park to do a pace line and hammer it after a long day in the saddle.
let's show the thing, doiong the thing! Yup, I feel you Jeff!
Wow what's going on, second upload in a matter of days?! I swear it is usually one a week. Great to see.
Donaldson Center Greenville SC. Tuesday Night Worlds. Been many laps over the years raced there every Tuesday. Big names hit it up as wel.
For reference the rider in blue hit the barriers on corner exit. He had too too much speed to make the corner and look out the legion rider in the process
Come on Chris, L39GION's style is [Crit]+[NFL], it's pure American!
It's a conspiracy
enjoying Legion being called out, good episode
And to Chris' point about seeing large crowds of "fans" by the road for a crit due to what Legion has done for the sport.... at least based on my experience at Athens Twilight crit, it's because for that one night in the year, the open container laws are relaxed and people are allowed to drink on the streets and cheer the riders on. Hence, most aren't pure cycling fans but just out to have drinks and enjoy seeing riders race by. Definitely not because of the "Legion effect"
Imagine a world where people were emotionally educated enough to talk like Jeff Linden. What a guy
Oh you won't see them in Europe. The "diversity and inclusion" grift is far too profitable in California.
I like a bit of Kunt
To make a light climbing bike with rim brakes makes sense, but when descending from a long climb disc brakes would be better. Which one of these plays a bigger factor?
When someone complains about the fact that Legion had 2 team at the Lions' Den event shows they have never read the story of Daniel in the lions' den in the bible. By definition it took a miracle for Daniel to survive a literal den of lions.
Rim brakes for life
This is a great show/interview.
Use of the term ‘demonstration sport’ is apt and fits with the view that sport is a form of entertainment. As some push the boundaries of entertainment.
Enjoyed this one!
Great one!
Yea. Best episode yet
Thanks Korey, was awesome to have Jeff spend some time with us.
Best yet!
I enjoyed the video. Thanks.
Regarding Legion, whether you like them or not, I think from the marketing perspective they have given a lot of exposure to the sport and it is good to see they are pushing for diversity in the sport. I am not familiar enough with the sport on a competitive level to expertly say they are bad for the sport ask I am a recreational cyclist and enjoy the sport of cycling, but I have observed via videos that many of the tactics they are accused of doing are also done by other teams as well. Whether they are to be portrayed as the heel or not, I think in any sport, there are certain lines of sportsmanship and safety that shouldn’t be crossed.
I recommend Eldridge Nims of Veloharmony as a guest. He is a former pro cyclist and has a lot of great info
I race Legion nearly every weekend here in SoCal. I have never been on the receiving end of any pushes but have seen it. They definitely are the most dominate team out there and I wish they could be take the criticism better. I totally agree with Jeff on these riders that have no business being on the course. There are so many sketchy riders that need more time riding with others and bike handling skills. Way too many Zwift warriors with zero common sense, understanding of safe lines, bike handling etc.
Thanks for the insight TJ!
Dude they ain’t trying to hear this. lol. The hate is real on social media and only from people that don’t ride in the same races. And fools like me comment also not a rider. But can see the social media run wild