The Right to Repair movement has done wonders for the aftermarket auto repair industry. They have forced the Manufacturers to release software and made them use standardized test connecters. It may not materialize in every single instance but it has still vastly improved the ability for Independent repair shops to repair vehicles. There are instances where the Manufacturers purposely use poorly designed parts in an effort to sell more parts, I see no way around that, but Right to Repair has been very successful.
Don't forget making sure the producers of the needed part aren't allowed to sell you the part half the time. Companies are to monopolized and predatory these days. It's funny how many claim they work to keep waste down yet because of what they do to make sure you buy a new one instead of letting people repair the amount of ewaste in land fills has only grown.
I was speaking to someone who writes embedded firmware for cars recently, he said that in the next few years it will be "impossible" for anyone other than the dealer to perform any real obd work. They are only mandated to provide basic obd2 functionality. It's sickening.
@@Ikbenjounietsukkel I'm fully aware of this. As a 30+ year auto mechanic I'll take what I can get. If they design more money for me into their product who am I to complain?? I was smart enough to buy a Honda.
Hi Alex, most probably is a silly question but have you tried to connect a pull-up resistor between the 3V supply line and the lock button trace that goes to the Maxwell chip? I will explain my thought. These buttons seem to me connected to active low inputs of the Maxwell chip (3V are present when the button is not pressed, I expect that pressing the button will send the line to ground). So there is, somewhere in the circuit, a pull-up to the 3V supply voltage. I see just two cases: the pull up is external or internal to the Maxwell chip. If it’s external a resistor should be present on the board and can be burnt out or the track can be interrupted, in any case should be an easy fix. If it is internal I see also here just two cases: the issue is between the silicon and the pad of the solder ball, and this is inevitably a no fix, or there is an issue on the silicon. In this last case I guess that is not a short to ground (else the battery had been drained) so it’s possible that there is an issue with the internal pull-up but the internal comparator attached to the pin is still working. Trying to pull-up the pin to 3V will give the answer.
Sorry but its wrong. The Chip is powered and got High Level Inputs, so when you press the Button you got no mesurment. Same on your light Switch at Home, when you mesure at the switch.
You think he'll waste time to do full diagnosis or repair? No, he takes the low hanging fruit, and charges everyone else in the months-long backlog a "repair attempt" (refusal to repair) fee.
Hey Alex the maxwell chip holds the information for the rolling code authorization needed to start the vehichle. I’ve changed a few of them but be warned you have to have an eeprom programmer to clone data from the old one to a new one.
encryption chip. i came to post this but you already covered it. you will not get information on that chip nor be able to buy one as drop in. its all shady systems level programming route. yep. same as using cracked SDS to get around vehicle systems encryption
A few people have already written here. It's worth checking whether installing an external 10k Ohm PULL-UP resistor would not help solve the problem. Under no circumstances should you apply 3v to this line, as people in the comments suggest, as it would short-circuit the button. You can supply 3v through a small 10k resistor.
10k is a little low resistance for a pull-up on a battery powered device. Try 100k. It's still a shot in the dark as it is more likely an open circuit to the die on the IC. Good luck.
I think knowing the correct value would be to measure current through one of the working switches, then a simple V/I would get you the value you need. It is a hassle, but it is worth it if it would solve this specific key mystery faults. Then whatever happens, at least it had the correct value of external pullup value. Happy hunting😊
The corrosion may have shorted and damaged the pull-up part of the Maxwell chip (if the pull-up is internal and not external), but the input part may still work.
Right to Repair would have made information available about the chip and hopefully make the part available for replacement from the manufacturer. So if it is hopeless then it is hopeless to even venture into a repair shop business..
The problem with the right to repair is that manufacturers are using more micro controller chips instead of discrete logic even for simple products and the problem is the manufacturer don't make the firmware available to download to program the blank microcontroller ics which seem to be readily available. Only a few months ago i watched a video by 'Mend it Mark' on here carrying out a repair of a stereo receiver but couldn't repair it as the microcontroller had failed unfortunately the blank microcontroller was available but the firmware wasn't and the manufacturer doesn't supply spares so that receiver became a waste product only usable for parts.
@@peterensinger1770 "We provide full instructions as to how to clone our products on our website" is a boon for repair shops, but not particularly for businesses that want to remain in operation.
There is no pure economic incentive for companies to create quality, long lasting products. There is incentive to make products that are imperceptibly faulty, that fail in small but crucial ways... such as the lock button, and only the lock button dying, so that you are forced into a constant, and arguably, abusive relationship with the company that slowly drains money from your account. This is Apple's entire business model, as well as Tesla, and seemingly more and more companies.
Might be easier in EU because many of the companies preventing it in the US aren't stationed in the EU so don't have as much financial input such as taxes and political donations. Not sure though as I don't know the workings in EU.
People who wonder why we don't have "right to repair", or complain that it's taking too long to be implemented, should get involved in politics. You can't just live your life and hope for the change you want. You have to work for it. Others won't fix things for you if they don't know they need fixing or there isn't enough people demanding they fix issues.
It's gonna be a hard one finding a replacement for this chip. Maxwell was sold and taken apart shortly after these key fobs were made. The know how is now either at DDC (Data Device Corporation) or at Tesla who bought the automotive branch and resold the 'Maxwell' name to a startup.
European Union is doing a better job than USA on the right to repair. Hope the American politicians come to their senses and help pass a strong right to repair legislation.
Yes that's exactly what we want is the government regulating yet another industry into the ground. When will people learn? If what the EU is doing is so great, why can't they get these chips either?
$$$$$ company's worth Trillions don't want you fixing there junk as it's not making them anymore $ if you can just fix there 💩 designs (looking at you Asus/HP Spectre) then you would t got out and buy a new one when you're breaks.
A lot of times these automotive manufacturers will request the chip maker to put a custom topside marking to mask what is really inside. Sometimes even the internal die marking is coded in case somebody tries to x-ray the chip. On the older fobs they tried using these BGAs to get the size of the fob smaller. Earlier BGA's use this polyimide substrate (its like a small PCB distribution layer to route from the ball to the internal die). These substrates could delaminate and fail as they are basically a tape substrate not rigid FR4. If I'm not mistaken, the newer fobs are using microQFNs or even going back to squeezing a standard TSSOP onto the board. Better reliability, easier to probe. My guess is the chip might be a sort of IO expander maybe? In any case, difficult to fix
As an ex mechanic I can say without hesitation that right to repair movement should pass no problem but big money wont let it happen, too much money made in the manufacturer shops and many have shown this, when they use a special encryption or keys to get into a system it is wrong, it has to change but I highly doubt it will.
I tried to google after you said there is no info - i found a video in russian of a guy desoldering the apfel chip and one the pins had actually been damaged. Is it worth (with permission to try it) to see if thats what has happened with the maxwell chip on the underside?
Right to repair is policy number 5 of my political organization for 2024 and the future, thank you for all you've educated me with and I hope someday I can repay you with legislation that protects your skills and job with access to parts and software
The moral of the story is don't buy any products with this kind of proprietary junk. If we all ban any products with this kind of underhanded tricks to prevent you from repairing them then the manufacturers learn their lesson and stop doing this S!%T....
That key is a genuine dealer key from a later model car. All MB keys like this work on any MB car. This year of car would of had the older NEC chip. You were correct in your assumptions. One is the immo chip, the other is the RF chip. For me id of simply read the immo data from the EIS. And made them a new key.
Maxwell encoder chip with damaged pin 1 pad on chip. It's fixable but since you have a donor I would try that first. Corrosion, damaged antennas and that chip are the weak spots of Mercedes remotes.
do you know if these chips are interchangable? what if these are all serialized to the motherboard and makes the swap impossible? I'm sure Alex tought of that and avoided trying...
Just an "empty" chip will not work. It should have a changing code according to the exact car it is programmed to work with. The chip needs to be reprogrammed in order to work.
Part of the absurd money they want for these fobs is because of all the time and money they have put into making them impossible to repair. The irony does not end there either, we have this cheap device that is necessary otherwise your car that is worth thousand of dollars is rendered useless! Personally I refuse to purchase a vehicle that requires these key fobs in order to work! It is a gimmick and bottom line is it is a cheap manufacturer that sets up their vehicles like this. Worse is this sort of scam only gets worse on electric vehicles and they want to make owning one if you want a car mandatory!
I agree, instead of putting in high security locks which are resistant to low skill attacks like bypassing, raking or bumping, they put in those electronic immobilisers and locks which will annoy the owners more than they do the thieves.
The Electrical Engineering at Mercedes is terrible. The fuse box in my Mercedes had a circuit trace that was 1/16" wide that ran power to a 40 amp fuse. The trace protected the fuse from blowing. Ridiculous. The circuit board quality on these remote controls is terrible. They are not even water resistant. One drop of water and they are crap. That is what you pay $400 for at the dealer. I think Mercedes has dedicated the entire month of August to improving quality control every year. It's a joke. They take all of August for vacation.
Why can't you tap the trunk line to the lock line. You're not going to use both buttons at the same time, so steal the three volts from the trunk line. Just a thought.
Just a thought but when you have some free time Alex give Mercedes a call and ask to be put through to workshop they may have a way of you obtaining the Maxwell chip I had to contact citroen about same issue on my brothers Citroen ds3 key fob It was doing the exact same as this key fob. Maxwell chip is indeed data stored that cannot be cloned onto another chip if this was attainable this would cause serious security issues world wide from vehicles from the same manufacturer
Correct. I have seen internal pull-up resistors inside the microcontroller being used to hold the line. But if this is the case, then the microcontroller port for that pin is faulty. Either way, the Maxwell chip needs to be replaced. I don't think that simply replacing it with another one would fix the problem, since, most-likely the micro contains firmware plus eeprom data stored into the flash of the device. I mean, some crypto information must be present inside the Maxwell. And this means, the fob's lock button might work but it would not work with customer's car since the crypto data would not match. You would have to perform some "learning procedure" of the fob to the car. But for sure you need some dedicated additional HW/SW (diagnosis). I think easiest way would be to go to the dealer which will tax the shit-out-of-you. You are right. It's a no-easy-fix.
So you’ve got 3V while the switch is not pressed but pushing it drops the signal? Could you tap into one of the 3V lines and place the signal at the switch so it feeds into the Maxwell and when the switch is pressed the signal will pull down? So basically borrow signal from from a working line?
I have the exact same problem with my spare mercedes key, all works except the lock button. Was hoping you found something lol, dealership quoted me 500 euro to make a new key. (Netherlands, Europe)
What if you take the 3v from the input of one of the other buttons? Just to give the button the 3v it needs. Maybe the chip is faulty only on delivering the 3v to the button, but it's working on registering the button presses
You mention you don't waste time when it isn't worth it. That's super valid, and I understand that. I work at a retro games shop and I'm our only repair tech. Between all customer repairs, I have about a 5% "no fix" rate. Is that high/low? I understand you deal with more complicated repairs than just game systems. Just curious how many you deem not fixable out of "700 in the shop"
we usually program another fob for the customer but for 2014 and on models we dont even try to repair because we cannot program another one only dealer can with a cost up to 2000$ 😅
I just bought one of these from the benz dealership. The key was about $350, dont know the labor because i had other stuff done and they didn't itemize labor.
Can you steal the power from one of the other 3 volt lines from that chip to supply the non working button with power? Just a thought. It appears part of that chips job is to supply the buttons with power only if I'm understanding right.
The main difference is whether the chip is using a pullup and checks the state of the output, or if there is a separate input pin that looks for 3V. I didn't look with enough care to notice which one is it
"Electronic lesson with alex" i love it....very good and sharp explainings. Perfect. The "apfel" chip let me laugh, because "apfel" stands for "apple" in german🍎🍏😂😂😂
If the fob is a no fix, maybe ask your customer if you can try a donor maxwell chip as a last resort and test on the vehicle. At least then you know for sure if that chip is tied to the car or if it simply manages the switches. Hope you get a solution and can update us 😀
a Fob is around $600 and 2 weeks waiting because is shipped directly from factory, better to keep using as it is, you can be sure the IC's are married to the car, otherwise they will ship blank keys to the dealers so they can program to the vehicles that need it.
Massive fines imposed by government or groups of governments is what is required. No this is not restraint of trade or stifling innovation, why are people so gullible? When the EU mandated one type of interface for charging of mobile devices, did phones stay the same from that point?
Like they say sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train! Right to repair will be a tricky business as manufacturers protect their parts and repair business plus their planned obsolescence.
Reminds me of when I was looking (and still am looking) for a replacement charger chip for my acer PH315-51-78NP. The laptop works, if you insert a charged battery, the battery is used just fine, the problem is that the laptop is unable to charge the battery. Looking at the schematics and board view, the only thing in the chain to charge the battery that possibly could have failed is the chip itself that regulates charging. So I went online looking for a replacement chip in the usual parts shops and the reputable ones do carry the chip but there i just 1 little problem. Minimum order volume from one of the reputable shops is 10 thousand chips. There are some sellers from Hong Kong and China that also carry the chip with more reasonable MOQ of 10 pieces minimum, but I have no way of verifying that the chips are original. I am not risking my precious laptop by soldering on a chip I cannot trust to be original.
Any thing Mercedes and immobilizer you will certainly hit dead ends, I had a w202 and the immobilization system got fried that vehicle became a paper weight.
We need to go back to manual locks. My truck is that way. I love the old ways, on these cars they need to have a back up system in case something fails.
Same old problem with car manufacture keeping their products in house so that customers have nowhere to go except main dealerships to get fleeced into buying new parts
The rationale is that if you can afford this vehicle, you can afford to get a replacement from the manufacturer. It's pernicious, to say the least. And downright criminal to boot.
What if you get power (3.3v) from another button like the trunk one and power the button that is not working, will the signal going to the chip make it work maybe ?
That's possible if the customer wants to move forward with the risk assuming the Maxwell chip does not contain any vehicle information. If it does, the chip has to be functional and not faulty.
@@NorthridgeFix The maxwell is similar to the Atmel ATA5823/ATA5824. It functions the same way, but the pin configuration may be different. One model or the other determines on which frequency is it transmitting.
Hmm. I wonder if that is what's wrong with my keyfobs or the sensor in the ignition as most things that the fob does works. I'm going to have to have a look later on.
I don't know what the maxwell chip is, but I did find chips made by maxwell on some HP inkjet printer motherboards, and I'm sure that the one on the printer was a SoC or some microcontroller... I wanted to find a datasheet for it, but only on maxwell's website iirc they had it, but you had to make an account... and that did not work for me :(. maybe that chip is on their website too, but you would have to make an account.. and it didn't work for me, because when they send you an email to verify your email, it comes already when the key is expired... maybe someone out there will have better luck than me and get the key before it expires
Don't care how hard it is, right to repair is worth fighting for, if you keep letting companies screw people it won't be just your devices feeling the pressure. Recently it was discovered a train manufacturer had embedded code to shut down locomotives if a date had passed or if the unit was maintained at a shop other than the one the manufacturer runs, these trains are a public utility which the manufacturer knowingly sabotaged so that just tells you how far they will go if you let them.
I think, Louis should move his battle for rights to repair here in Europe. Our government is more sensible to people willings, and, if he wins in EU, he wins for USA too. We've already obtained the right to have an unique charching port (USB Type C) on all devices sold in Europe.
@@cleitonfelipe2092 I wouldn't say a joke, but in Europe, as it consists of several smaller countries, it becomes harder for businesses to influence governments, so the lobbying "community" is less powerful than in the US. The US has a government, but the real decision makers are the lobbying activists.
The Right to Repair movement has done wonders for the aftermarket auto repair industry. They have forced the Manufacturers to release software and made them use standardized test connecters. It may not materialize in every single instance but it has still vastly improved the ability for Independent repair shops to repair vehicles. There are instances where the Manufacturers purposely use poorly designed parts in an effort to sell more parts, I see no way around that, but Right to Repair has been very successful.
Don't forget making sure the producers of the needed part aren't allowed to sell you the part half the time. Companies are to monopolized and predatory these days. It's funny how many claim they work to keep waste down yet because of what they do to make sure you buy a new one instead of letting people repair the amount of ewaste in land fills has only grown.
I was speaking to someone who writes embedded firmware for cars recently, he said that in the next few years it will be "impossible" for anyone other than the dealer to perform any real obd work. They are only mandated to provide basic obd2 functionality. It's sickening.
Right to repair and planned obsolescence are diffrent things.
Right to repair is not a European thing. Only in France it's by law, yet.
@@Ikbenjounietsukkel I'm fully aware of this. As a 30+ year auto mechanic I'll take what I can get. If they design more money for me into their product who am I to complain?? I was smart enough to buy a Honda.
Hi Alex, most probably is a silly question but have you tried to connect a pull-up resistor between the 3V supply line and the lock button trace that goes to the Maxwell chip?
I will explain my thought.
These buttons seem to me connected to active low inputs of the Maxwell chip (3V are present when the button is not pressed, I expect that pressing the button will send the line to ground).
So there is, somewhere in the circuit, a pull-up to the 3V supply voltage.
I see just two cases: the pull up is external or internal to the Maxwell chip.
If it’s external a resistor should be present on the board and can be burnt out or the track can be interrupted, in any case should be an easy fix.
If it is internal I see also here just two cases: the issue is between the silicon and the pad of the solder ball, and this is inevitably a no fix, or there is an issue on the silicon.
In this last case I guess that is not a short to ground (else the battery had been drained) so it’s possible that there is an issue with the internal pull-up but the internal comparator attached to the pin is still working. Trying to pull-up the pin to 3V will give the answer.
that was my first thought too...
Agree
Sorry but its wrong. The Chip is powered and got High Level Inputs, so when you press the Button you got no mesurment. Same on your light Switch at Home, when you mesure at the switch.
Dang... I haven't noticed your comment and commented exactly the same thing
You think he'll waste time to do full diagnosis or repair? No, he takes the low hanging fruit, and charges everyone else in the months-long backlog a "repair attempt" (refusal to repair) fee.
Right to Repair is still a good goal to have even if it is hard to obtain
wouldnt u just get a repacement chip to fix the problem?
Hey Alex the maxwell chip holds the information for the rolling code authorization needed to start the vehichle. I’ve changed a few of them but be warned you have to have an eeprom programmer to clone data from the old one to a new one.
That is good news. Do you know of any datasheet and where to buy these?
What programmer did you use to read/write to this chip please ?
This is FBS 4 , i don t know any means up to this date to clone this key afaik.
Regards
@@lurch789 "Just..." ? Huh ?
encryption chip. i came to post this but you already covered it. you will not get information on that chip nor be able to buy one as drop in. its all shady systems level programming route. yep. same as using cracked SDS to get around vehicle systems encryption
A few people have already written here.
It's worth checking whether installing an external 10k Ohm PULL-UP resistor would not help solve the problem.
Under no circumstances should you apply 3v to this line, as people in the comments suggest, as it would short-circuit the button.
You can supply 3v through a small 10k resistor.
He didn't apply 3v he was just taking readings with the battery inside the fob
@@jaycqc8136 Read his post again. Slowly this time.
10k is a little low resistance for a pull-up on a battery powered device. Try 100k. It's still a shot in the dark as it is more likely an open circuit to the die on the IC. Good luck.
I think knowing the correct value would be to measure current through one of the working switches, then a simple V/I would get you the value you need. It is a hassle, but it is worth it if it would solve this specific key mystery faults. Then whatever happens, at least it had the correct value of external pullup value. Happy hunting😊
@@MyRadDesignclose enough to limit current.
The corrosion may have shorted and damaged the pull-up part of the Maxwell chip (if the pull-up is internal and not external), but the input part may still work.
Right to Repair would have made information available about the chip and hopefully make the part available for replacement from the manufacturer. So if it is hopeless then it is hopeless to even venture into a repair shop business..
I had the exact same thought...
The problem with the right to repair is that manufacturers are using more micro controller chips instead of discrete logic even for simple products and the problem is the manufacturer don't make the firmware available to download to program the blank microcontroller ics which seem to be readily available. Only a few months ago i watched a video by 'Mend it Mark' on here carrying out a repair of a stereo receiver but couldn't repair it as the microcontroller had failed unfortunately the blank microcontroller was available but the firmware wasn't and the manufacturer doesn't supply spares so that receiver became a waste product only usable for parts.
@@peterensinger1770 "We provide full instructions as to how to clone our products on our website" is a boon for repair shops, but not particularly for businesses that want to remain in operation.
What a shame that GOVs know it,and allow it. @@peterensinger1770
There is no pure economic incentive for companies to create quality, long lasting products.
There is incentive to make products that are imperceptibly faulty, that fail in small but crucial ways... such as the lock button, and only the lock button dying, so that you are forced into a constant, and arguably, abusive relationship with the company that slowly drains money from your account.
This is Apple's entire business model, as well as Tesla, and seemingly more and more companies.
we are already seeing progress, EU has made rule to manufacture devices with removable batteries by 2027, let's keep fighting,
Yes, and there is a proposal now for right to repair in EU too
Might be easier in EU because many of the companies preventing it in the US aren't stationed in the EU so don't have as much financial input such as taxes and political donations. Not sure though as I don't know the workings in EU.
People who wonder why we don't have "right to repair", or complain that it's taking too long to be implemented, should get involved in politics. You can't just live your life and hope for the change you want. You have to work for it. Others won't fix things for you if they don't know they need fixing or there isn't enough people demanding they fix issues.
You do have a right to repair.
You have a right to cook, but do you have a right to a chefs ingredients?
@@gteaz "you have a right to repair" except there are literally products that will brick themselves if you change the battery? braindead comment
Bit late for most of us to join WEF's "Young Future Leaders" program.
@@lillexus5589what’s thar
If you can tell me how to just become a politician overnight, let me know.
It's gonna be a hard one finding a replacement for this chip. Maxwell was sold and taken apart shortly after these key fobs were made. The know how is now either at DDC (Data Device Corporation) or at Tesla who bought the automotive branch and resold the 'Maxwell' name to a startup.
European Union is doing a better job than USA on the right to repair. Hope the American politicians come to their senses and help pass a strong right to repair legislation.
Yes that's exactly what we want is the government regulating yet another industry into the ground. When will people learn? If what the EU is doing is so great, why can't they get these chips either?
$$$$$ company's worth Trillions don't want you fixing there junk as it's not making them anymore $ if you can just fix there 💩 designs (looking at you Asus/HP Spectre) then you would t got out and buy a new one when you're breaks.
Politicians come to their senses?? That's a good one 😆🤣🤣🤣
They will, they're just very busy right now with ̶b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ lobbying stuff.
@@michaelgleason4791do you think it's a smart idea to sell chips that contain certain firmware on it
A lot of times these automotive manufacturers will request the chip maker to put a custom topside marking to mask what is really inside. Sometimes even the internal die marking is coded in case somebody tries to x-ray the chip. On the older fobs they tried using these BGAs to get the size of the fob smaller. Earlier BGA's use this polyimide substrate (its like a small PCB distribution layer to route from the ball to the internal die). These substrates could delaminate and fail as they are basically a tape substrate not rigid FR4. If I'm not mistaken, the newer fobs are using microQFNs or even going back to squeezing a standard TSSOP onto the board. Better reliability, easier to probe. My guess is the chip might be a sort of IO expander maybe? In any case, difficult to fix
GM is infamous for doing that
Unique serialization in automotive in my experience is typically for application-specific flashed firmware.
You should have told the customer he needed to buy a new car.
This is what every car manufacturers want, but this is never a solution for us.
Tell customer to leave it unlocked lol. No one wants to steal that Benz...
Yeahhhh just give more money to the banks
@@yuldogster5735💀💀💀
Radical, dude
I think the no fix videos are more interesting than the regular ones
As an ex mechanic I can say without hesitation that right to repair movement should pass no problem but big money wont let it happen, too much money made in the manufacturer shops and many have shown this, when they use a special encryption or keys to get into a system it is wrong, it has to change but I highly doubt it will.
I tried to google after you said there is no info - i found a video in russian of a guy desoldering the apfel chip and one the pins had actually been damaged. Is it worth (with permission to try it) to see if thats what has happened with the maxwell chip on the underside?
Right to repair is policy number 5 of my political organization for 2024 and the future, thank you for all you've educated me with and I hope someday I can repay you with legislation that protects your skills and job with access to parts and software
Apfel is "Apple" in German. That chip is probably made in Germany and indeed the one containing the firmware.
The moral of the story is don't buy any products with this kind of proprietary junk. If we all ban any products with this kind of underhanded tricks to prevent you from repairing them then the manufacturers learn their lesson and stop doing this S!%T....
That key is a genuine dealer key from a later model car. All MB keys like this work on any MB car. This year of car would of had the older NEC chip. You were correct in your assumptions. One is the immo chip, the other is the RF chip.
For me id of simply read the immo data from the EIS. And made them a new key.
Right to repair? Nobody is stopping me!! 😆"They said there would LIGHT at the end of the TUNNEL. Nobody ever told us it was A TRAIN!!"
711021 is definitely the date code - not the chip identifier... The identifier is 1923PAF... similar keys are using 1927pac
Maxwell encoder chip with damaged pin 1 pad on chip. It's fixable but since you have a donor I would try that first. Corrosion, damaged antennas and that chip are the weak spots of Mercedes remotes.
do you know if these chips are interchangable? what if these are all serialized to the motherboard and makes the swap impossible? I'm sure Alex tought of that and avoided trying...
@trainyourbrain4420 not replacable unless reprogrammed.
Just an "empty" chip will not work. It should have a changing code according to the exact car it is programmed to work with. The chip needs to be reprogrammed in order to work.
You could try and jumper the 3v pin of trunk button so that the switch can at least pass digital 3v signal
So if there is no 3v on that line can you use 3v from one of the other traces and see if the lock button works after that?
Did you try shining UV light in its eyeballs?
Part of the absurd money they want for these fobs is because of all the time and money they have put into making them impossible to repair. The irony does not end there either, we have this cheap device that is necessary otherwise your car that is worth thousand of dollars is rendered useless! Personally I refuse to purchase a vehicle that requires these key fobs in order to work! It is a gimmick and bottom line is it is a cheap manufacturer that sets up their vehicles like this. Worse is this sort of scam only gets worse on electric vehicles and they want to make owning one if you want a car mandatory!
I agree, instead of putting in high security locks which are resistant to low skill attacks like bypassing, raking or bumping, they put in those electronic immobilisers and locks which will annoy the owners more than they do the thieves.
That's because it's cost 400 euros for a new key and then it's to be coded to the car that probably another 60 to 80 euros
The Electrical Engineering at Mercedes is terrible. The fuse box in my Mercedes had a circuit trace that was 1/16" wide that ran power to a 40 amp fuse. The trace protected the fuse from blowing. Ridiculous. The circuit board quality on these remote controls is terrible. They are not even water resistant. One drop of water and they are crap. That is what you pay $400 for at the dealer. I think Mercedes has dedicated the entire month of August to improving quality control every year. It's a joke. They take all of August for vacation.
Why can't you tap the trunk line to the lock line. You're not going to use both buttons at the same time, so steal the three volts from the trunk line. Just a thought.
It’s not just about getting 3v, if you tap the trunk line then you’ll likely end up opening the trunk with the lock button
The command its in the chip not on the line....its clear that the corosion faulted the chip...replacing the faulty chip its just half of the problem.
These things cost around $500 for the average car now.
that's why the manufacturers want them to be unrepairable
Just a thought but when you have some free time Alex give Mercedes a call and ask to be put through to workshop they may have a way of you obtaining the Maxwell chip I had to contact citroen about same issue on my brothers Citroen ds3 key fob
It was doing the exact same as this key fob. Maxwell chip is indeed data stored that cannot be cloned onto another chip if this was attainable this would cause serious security issues world wide from vehicles from the same manufacturer
Could the issue be a damaged pullup or trace to a pullup rather than the chip itself.
He measured from the pin of the chip ic.probably it has pins for vcc and gnd and the pin he measured should have 3.0v
Most likely the chip has internal pullup
@@BogdanSerban what does that mean
It's possible internal pull-ups are used, which - if failed - doesn't bode well for the input pin generally
Correct.
I have seen internal pull-up resistors inside the microcontroller being used to hold the line. But if this is the case, then the microcontroller port for that pin is faulty. Either way, the Maxwell chip needs to be replaced.
I don't think that simply replacing it with another one would fix the problem, since, most-likely the micro contains firmware plus eeprom data stored into the flash of the device. I mean, some crypto information must be present inside the Maxwell. And this means, the fob's lock button might work but it would not work with customer's car since the crypto data would not match.
You would have to perform some "learning procedure" of the fob to the car. But for sure you need some dedicated additional HW/SW (diagnosis). I think easiest way would be to go to the dealer which will tax the shit-out-of-you.
You are right. It's a no-easy-fix.
So you’ve got 3V while the switch is not pressed but pushing it drops the signal? Could you tap into one of the 3V lines and place the signal at the switch so it feeds into the Maxwell and when the switch is pressed the signal will pull down? So basically borrow signal from from a working line?
What if you try to supply the missing 3.0V manually?
Already answered
I have the exact same problem with my spare mercedes key, all works except the lock button. Was hoping you found something lol, dealership quoted me 500 euro to make a new key. (Netherlands, Europe)
there you go, $500 for a $10 part; what?!
What if you take the 3v from the input of one of the other buttons? Just to give the button the 3v it needs. Maybe the chip is faulty only on delivering the 3v to the button, but it's working on registering the button presses
The button has to communicate with the chip to signal a lock command,
It's likely that the chip has internal pullup, to it supplies 3V to the line and the button pulls it down.
You mention you don't waste time when it isn't worth it. That's super valid, and I understand that. I work at a retro games shop and I'm our only repair tech. Between all customer repairs, I have about a 5% "no fix" rate. Is that high/low? I understand you deal with more complicated repairs than just game systems. Just curious how many you deem not fixable out of "700 in the shop"
I think thats the common rate. I repair things aswell and the rate is about the same.
He mentioned before a 80 - 85% fix rate
@@TechProFury 👌
@baiseduezcke2295 💖
we usually program another fob for the customer but for 2014 and on models we dont even try to repair because we cannot program another one only dealer can with a cost up to 2000$ 😅
ok
It may not be the chip. It could be a short elsewhere on the board holding the input line down.
whats the ohms reading on that line that is not working?
It is a transponder chip, the origin part number is PCF7935 and needs to be programmed according to the brand.
Nice worked out, explained and demonstrated. Comes from experience. 👍🏻✌🏻🇬🇧
I just bought one of these from the benz dealership. The key was about $350, dont know the labor because i had other stuff done and they didn't itemize labor.
i work with auto electrical for 25 years, this chip can be replaced but you need the key programmer from mercedes ro pair it
Can you steal the power from one of the other 3 volt lines from that chip to supply the non working button with power? Just a thought. It appears part of that chips job is to supply the buttons with power only if I'm understanding right.
I think the chip needs to see ground to know it's been pressed. Rather than power in its power out and grounded through the button. I believe
The main difference is whether the chip is using a pullup and checks the state of the output, or if there is a separate input pin that looks for 3V. I didn't look with enough care to notice which one is it
@@rossmate81 I believe you are probably correct
PROPRIETORY CHIPS SUCK WORSE YET WHEN THE MANUFACTURER GRINDS THE CHIP id WRITING OFF LEAVING BLANK LOOKING CHIPS
"Electronic lesson with alex" i love it....very good and sharp explainings. Perfect.
The "apfel" chip let me laugh, because "apfel" stands for "apple" in german🍎🍏😂😂😂
The rolling codes stored on the chip have their own security when it comes to disassembly.
If the fob is a no fix, maybe ask your customer if you can try a donor maxwell chip as a last resort and test on the vehicle. At least then you know for sure if that chip is tied to the car or if it simply manages the switches. Hope you get a solution and can update us 😀
That was my thought. It's some messing about but at least an oppotunity to learn
a Fob is around $600 and 2 weeks waiting because is shipped directly from factory, better to keep using as it is, you can be sure the IC's are married to the car, otherwise they will ship blank keys to the dealers so they can program to the vehicles that need it.
MB wants $600 for a $10 part?? what?? @@markg7666
a fob costs about 7$ to manufacture.
@@skataskatata9236and 593$ to program...
Massive fines imposed by government or groups of governments is what is required. No this is not restraint of trade or stifling innovation, why are people so gullible? When the EU mandated one type of interface for charging of mobile devices, did phones stay the same from that point?
That's an impressive non sequitur there.
@@michaelgleason4791 How is it irrelevant?
Like they say sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train! Right to repair will be a tricky business as manufacturers protect their parts and repair business plus their planned obsolescence.
If you can read the info from the NEC IC you will be able to program another key. Thanks for your videos. Really appreciated
Reminds me of when I was looking (and still am looking) for a replacement charger chip for my acer PH315-51-78NP. The laptop works, if you insert a charged battery, the battery is used just fine, the problem is that the laptop is unable to charge the battery. Looking at the schematics and board view, the only thing in the chain to charge the battery that possibly could have failed is the chip itself that regulates charging. So I went online looking for a replacement chip in the usual parts shops and the reputable ones do carry the chip but there i just 1 little problem. Minimum order volume from one of the reputable shops is 10 thousand chips. There are some sellers from Hong Kong and China that also carry the chip with more reasonable MOQ of 10 pieces minimum, but I have no way of verifying that the chips are original. I am not risking my precious laptop by soldering on a chip I cannot trust to be original.
Any thing Mercedes and immobilizer you will certainly hit dead ends, I had a w202 and the immobilization system got fried that vehicle became a paper weight.
I may sound crazy but try to give it the 3V directly from one of the lines
Why not take 3.3V from elsewhere and connect it to the switch, the line to the microcontroller still being good should enable the lock button?
no, you can't do that.
We need to go back to manual locks. My truck is that way. I love the old ways, on these cars they need to have a back up system in case something fails.
I have to say the video quality of your standard camera is excellent 😀
I have tons of these keys in a box at work, not sure if you have any use for them.
A new chip will probably not solve the issue. You also need to clone the data from it. The Car will not start with a empty chip.
He knows this, he has worked on many fobs with the NEC chip
how do you know the power comes from the chip and not just passing through the buttons?
Man people are so smart in these comments. Good for yall
Parts of the imobiliser system will never be official knowledge. Its secret.
And that's just wrong, secrecy is not a guarantee for security.
@@Universal_Craftsman Even the dealership have limited information available.
@@znoop72 Thieves have the information probably before the dealership has it.
can you transfer the second chip to the donor board that working ?
Can you jump a wire from the third line to the secont so it will have 3V?
Hi Alex, below I saw a broken track... 👍🏻
Where? Do you have time stamp?
Yes, there's what looks like a lifted pad. Timestamp 10:38, second pad from the right under the Maxwell bga.
Same old problem with car manufacture keeping their products in house so that customers have nowhere to go except main dealerships to get fleeced into buying new parts
Apparently it's a GNSS ASIC whatever that is. It seems like the only place to get them is Trimble, the company who makes them. So no luck
The rationale is that if you can afford this vehicle, you can afford to get a replacement from the manufacturer. It's pernicious, to say the least. And downright criminal to boot.
There is always a slight chance that the track under the chip is broken like it happens with iphones
What if you get power (3.3v) from another button like the trunk one and power the button that is not working, will the signal going to the chip make it work maybe ?
Idk, but it's better you replace the firmware chip from this fob to a working donor key, so in that way it all work,
That's possible if the customer wants to move forward with the risk assuming the Maxwell chip does not contain any vehicle information. If it does, the chip has to be functional and not faulty.
@@NorthridgeFix The maxwell is similar to the Atmel ATA5823/ATA5824. It functions the same way, but the pin configuration may be different. One model or the other determines on which frequency is it transmitting.
..bypass capacitors seems to be problem on keyfob on Range Rover i did. Same thing, 0 volts on signal entry lines causing lines to be pulled down..
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train barreling down on you
Hmm. I wonder if that is what's wrong with my keyfobs or the sensor in the ignition as most things that the fob does works. I'm going to have to have a look later on.
what about the 0 fuse chip that goes to that button? did it test good?
APFEL is Apple in German..anything to do with the company in the US?
I think that chip was 433Mhz key-fob encoding .
What if you just added 3v to that dead line from one of the traces that are measuring 3v? Could that possibly work?
Was thinking the exact same thing
I don't know what the maxwell chip is, but I did find chips made by maxwell on some HP inkjet printer motherboards, and I'm sure that the one on the printer was a SoC or some microcontroller... I wanted to find a datasheet for it, but only on maxwell's website iirc they had it, but you had to make an account... and that did not work for me :(.
maybe that chip is on their website too, but you would have to make an account.. and it didn't work for me, because when they send you an email to verify your email, it comes already when the key is expired... maybe someone out there will have better luck than me and get the key before it expires
Don't care how hard it is, right to repair is worth fighting for, if you keep letting companies screw people it won't be just your devices feeling the pressure.
Recently it was discovered a train manufacturer had embedded code to shut down locomotives if a date had passed or if the unit was maintained at a shop other than the one the manufacturer runs, these trains are a public utility which the manufacturer knowingly sabotaged so that just tells you how far they will go if you let them.
I think, Louis should move his battle for rights to repair here in Europe. Our government is more sensible to people willings, and, if he wins in EU, he wins for USA too. We've already obtained the right to have an unique charching port (USB Type C) on all devices sold in Europe.
"more sensible to people willings"
What a joke
@@cleitonfelipe2092 indeed a joke, however here they are less resistant to use their violence to force people to do things.
@@cleitonfelipe2092 I wouldn't say a joke, but in Europe, as it consists of several smaller countries, it becomes harder for businesses to influence governments, so the lobbying "community" is less powerful than in the US.
The US has a government, but the real decision makers are the lobbying activists.
It’s a DAS4 key so you know for the future. I use to work for Benz
He needs to get a new fob and bring it to a locksmith to have it cloned to the new fob or have the new fob reprogrammed
You can only get a new fob from MB for hundreds of $$$ and they will clone it for you, they won't sell you a blank fob.
i think it is necessary to keep fighting despite all odds, as long as you are fighting with good intentions,
i would connect that trace without voltage to either one of rhise working traces coming from chip. Maybe it would lock an open trunk at same time
It definitely wouldn’t lock, but might open the trunk.
I think soon Auto Manufacturers will put a credit card slot next to the on/off button.
The outro was FIRE🔥🔥🔥 keep up the amazing content‼️
Alex, what if you give 3v supply directly from one of the other 2 connections.
I think the issue is you would be feeding the chip 3 v.
Instead the chip should be sending 3v. Once line is ground i think chip detects button press.
من الخلف في واحد من الخطوط مقطوعه. ممكن يكون انعكاس ضوء!. على يسار العازل الاخضر مباشرة.
Exactly.
Is this switch normal single contact push button?
Or
Multiple points?
Mentioning Louis Rossman made me cheer... Love your vids now even more. You know what's up ...
Right to Repair should be just that. If you are buying a Mercedes one should have to right to be able to repair a key fob.
How dare you still be driving a car from 2005? That things should have been tossed in a landfill 5 years after we sold it to you.
Mercedes, probably.
People demand too much from the government.
Just stop buying cars or products from companies that pull shit like this.
APFEL means APPLE in German....so it must be a German version of APPLE🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Clean sodering work. Way better than factory.