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Siempre me han encantado los videos de Vice, tener audios en español es simple magnifico, gracias por pensar por los hispanohablantes que ven sus videos
@Frank L Tesla might make to some point sense in case of self driving car and that it's overall new so that they don't end up with the blame if someone did repair or "repair" their Tesla by bugging out things.
@@durkala Democrats? Hate to break it to you, but Republicans are just as on board with IP laws like this. Crow, when you get away from small farming outfits, I don't see conservatives fighting this stuff, most of the activism is coming from the liberal side. Even most of agribusiness is in favor of these restrictions.
I work for Deere, and even people inside the company don't like this about the company. Keep pushing the issue, you will win. I am rooting for you! I don't have the power to make any changes, I just work for the company to make my living just like you farm your field to make a living to make yours. I'm all for justice. If I lose my job because you found justice in yours, so be it. I've been looking for a different job anyways. This is a litigation battle and not something you can blow a whistle over.
@@gregpalmer3831 It is actually. I hate their values and work culture. I'm currently seeking new employment that agrees with my values which is "the customer is always right." Deere says one thing, and does another. Everything in this video is true, and is a big reason I am leaving. They treat their employees like garbage as well. Everything changed after the Deere family sold the company and they became publicly traded. Deere's interest is only in market share value and the stockholder. They are blinded by this ethos and the farmer is the one that has paid for it. They will be around for a long time yet because of their patent ownerships and various other assets, but if they keep the same business model, they will fail over time. They are one of the closest industries to being a true monopoly in my opinion.
I commend you for being considerate of others lively-hood for the potential sacrifice of your own lively-hood. I can relate to this in a way. I work for a company that manufactures ammunition for the war fighters. Essentially the ammunition is used to destroy other people's property or take their lives. Why do we live in a world where this is acceptable? To defend yourself is reasonable but to go out and search and destroy is not. Especially at times like this when a virus is the world's enemy. I would not mind losing my job in order to better the human race collectively. If people would just come together on the same issue/resolution, revolutionary changes could occur for the better, for all mankind.
What is needed is a mass boycott of all corporations engaged in these types of treasonous activities. We would find our lives much more fulfilling not spending time doing business with these sniveling cowards anyways. Boycott all major corporations and buy local or in your state and neighboring states. Starve the beast out.
I’m a dealer field mechanic for Caterpillar. We lead the market in construction and mining equipment, compared to John Deere which is mostly agricultural. Our software is accessible to customers. They can see live data, perform diagnostic tests and flash ECMs. Our online system has complete diagrams, explains component function and step by step troubleshooting processes. Even if you know absolutely nothing about machines, we give you the resources to figure it out. CAT will always be superior to Deere.
As a farmer, I appreciate CAT's approach over John Deere. Perhaps it's time to change my entire operation over to CAT. I just wish CAT service wasn't so darned expensive. I guess the openness comes with a cost, right?
exactly, the farmer that buys a brand new 300k base model combine and headers to suit, John Deere or any company selling that should come with a personal tech... or free access to software. Honestly.
lol the farmers shouldnt even be in this situation. To be called activist just because the company support for the product you spend dozens of thousands of dollars sucks, and you move againsnt it... Where are the morals? That man bought your product, supported your company, and even still you still want to rip money off him. Big corporations are the scum of humanity, but a "necessary" evil unfortunately
@@rickb06 Considering that those bits of technology were invented and innovated by NASA for commercial use on the ground, it's no surprise that companies like John Deere would be itching to make some money off of exploiting farmers through their "latest" technology that might not even be better but, instead, worse compared to the older tractors made in the 1950s and earlier. The tractors in those times were built to last. Seeing how Hobart built electric stand-alone mixers and other kitchen tools to last, why can't John Deere and related companies do the same?
In 1984 I closed my shop and sold out all my tools. Farmers would sit at the coffee shop and say go get your tractors repaired at the dealer. They have all the special tools and knowledge to fix them. So did I. My cost investment exceeded any gain after 1980. Many machine shops and independent repair shops closed after me. I’m now retired after working on air conditioners. I just installed a new unit in my home and haven’t put one in anywhere since about 8 years ago. I couldn’t get anyone to finish my a/c lines using nitrogen so I bought all the supplies and finished it. A/C contractors get warrantee paranoia when you install your own equipment and they can’t charge you 10,000 or more and like the farming industry they hate and despise the DIYs! My hats off to all the last generation of farmers who brought us here.
I worked at a New Holland dealership in the 80's/90's and never would have dreamed where we would be today with tech. I have some JD equipment but it's all older, nothing with a board. I'm pretty sure even if I could, I would not buy anything new that says John Deere on it. On another note along the same lines, last year when my home A/C went down literally at 5:05 on a Friday night, I called the dealer and they said it would be the first of the week before I could expect a tech. So I did my own diagnostics. The blower fan motor wouldn't turn. There was nothing wrong with the motor itself, just the electronics that tell it turn. I went to my local HVAC guy, bought a motor and a couple other trinkets for less than $150, hooked it up myself and got air for the weekend. It was blowing too hard but at least we had air, and the temps outside were 100 degrees. When the dealer tech showed up, he told me I needed a new blower motor and a new main control board - $1200. He had to call in my unit serial number to the equipment company so the parts could be programmed to my unit before they were shipped. What insanity, and a complete money grab. Same thing JD is doing and it's spreading everywhere.
@@blythkd9017 I fixed my AC for $20 after lightning hit outside my house and flipped the circuit breaker so hard that it cracked. I also replaced the capacitor in the condenser outside but it may not have needed it. That was about $10 because it bought it online and had it shipped to me, so I didn't burn any gas or time getting it. Good thing they don't have serial numbers. iPhones do require that money grabbing process for some parts. So I bought an Android phone instead.
@@speedKGDM Car mechanics are qualified to fix their own cars by virtue of having had extensive training and experience in that area. Someone who went to Agricultural College didn't receive any training in that area, but many are willing to "have a bash" as though having training and experience is overrated.
@@deaddoll1361 you realise that to have machinery sent to a factory for repair is enough to ruin a crop And to ban a man from repairing his own personal property is a constitutional violation Your not going to take your car to a mechanic to change a flat tire are you? Why should a farmer have to pay hundreds of thousamds of dollars for a repair a company has a monopolistic vise grip on.
@@deaddoll1361 they’re qualified to fix other peoples cars. Anyone can fix their own car. Anyone should be able to fix their own tractor. Wtf is ur point
Problem is all hardware manufacturers are realizing the "value" in vertical integration so they implant more and more software in their devices, and leverage pay for use schemes to their captive markets. All industry is going this way. Look at how Tesla treats secondary market transactions, or repair/rebuilds of cars. Not too surprising why Apple now wants to build a car.
I bought a John Deere 1028 Snow Blower because I thought that they were well-made and held its resale value. In the first season, the switches fell apart. I tried to buy new ones on Ebay and found that the switches are of a propriety design as well as the cutouts on the control panel. The cost of the John Deere replacement switches is extremely high at $45.00 each compared to $5.00 generic switches. I ended up having to modify the wiring harness and add a generic plug to use higher-quality Chinese-made generic switches.
A late family friend of mine was a hoarder on the prairie in South Dakota. Hoarder In the sense he had 28 tractors but only ever needed 2 or 3 (small property). I asked him a few years before he died why he could afford a new house, new trucks, and so many nice guns, yet didn’t have a tractor younger than he was. They were all freaking ancient, and he told me he bought them all up for parts to keep his old reliable tractors running. Just to avoid this exact issue. He died happy with 28 tractors that were far cheaper than owning a new deer.
Maybe today, you can still try making parts if you send a broken one to a workshop or somewhere, and keep gping for ever. I see India people repairing old truck gearboxs and chassis.
I like the statement John Deere issued at the end, "Customers, dealers, and manufacturers should work together on the issue rather than invite government regulation...". Excuse me, I think that is why we are seeking government intervention is because you (Deere) won't work with us by giving farmers access to the diagnostic software.
Ths statement by John Deere to keep the government out of it is like the selfish bully in school that gets mad at the others for reporting his behaviour
The simple answer is; Do not buy a John Deere piece of equipment now ... and NEVER buy a piece of John Deere equipment moving forward. If everyone did that, they would back down.
Corporations are arguing the "piracy" debate but really they still want control in what the consumers bought... Downright evil and manipulate to change the narrative on what a trade is. Corpos view: You buy you, we still own you so your technically renting our services (greed) Reality: you buy and in return you receive full control of something to own...otherwise I don't own it If this problem was in real estate im sure the problem would be very clear
IKR. It also seems reasonable that should also be allowed to purchase their tractors from Caterpillar, Kubota, Jacobson etc but the law is clear: you must buy ONLY John Deer tractors.
“We can’t let people repair our equipment because it opens the gates to hackers” *Meanwhile people are becoming hackers so they can repair their stuff*
Calling it hacking is misleading. They are using pirated diagnostic software, it's normal official tool but modified by someone to circumvent license checks. I guess you can say that the software was cracked, either way farmers are just using that pirated versions, they are not making them. Using pirated software may be dangerous, you never know for sure what else the person who modified it put in, but if you have no other choice you will do it. Right to repair will fix that, allowing people to buy that diagnostic software legally.
But many of these huge corporations,will get into business with china , because of the cheap labor ,and give away their proprietary rights or tech,in order to make a huge profit. Then they whine to the u.s. government how unfair china treats them,lol. No one forced them to go there, GREEDY
@@pingwingugu5 what is hacking The bypass of built in security or protocol checks without the permission of the owner or creator, with the intent to access a part of a system or gain knowledge otherwise unobtainable without a specified key or permission They are hacking Just cause they use a tool they didn't build doesn't mean they aren't hacking Is a person who hacks the national security firewall less of a hacker because he didn't make the computer he used? Is a kid hacking call of duty less of a hacker because he used an actually completely legal software to do it? No, hacking is hacking by the definition, it is an act not a tool.
I'm not a farmer but I do have a riding lawnmower. I was thinking about getting a john deere when my cub cadet kicks the bucket..... but I refuse to support a company that doesn't take care of its customers or makes it difficult to do your own repairs.
@GunBug even the law abiding ones can hack their tractor. As stated in the video, Congress modified the DMCA in 2015 to make it legal to hack farm equipment in order to make repairs.
Huge shout out to Louis Rossmann and Vice...an executive order has been passed...this is a step forward and huge win for the average repair guy and clients!
How many politicians have said time and time again how important farmers are. Yet when it comes to actually supporting real farmers versus big companies... Well, we know who they pick.
Retired electrician who over 30 years ago ran into problems with larger equipment companies removing model #'s on IC chips and placing thier own numbers and thier prints never shown internal connections so we were forced to ship them a board where they would replace a $20 chip and charge us from $500 to 800 for what they claimed was a rebuilt board.
@@illeagle9560 not the manufacturers like John Deere, but other members of Big Ag like Tyson, Smithfield, Monsanto, etc. They drool over snatching up farms on the cheap
This is a hell of an opportunity for a small tractor manufacturer: they could make their tractor software open source like Linux, or Apache, and invite users to publish code they've written, and the winner gets their ideas incorporated into the next release. When you have more minds working on a problem, you improve the quality more rapidly.
@@GS-zc4sk every bit of software is important and needs to cooperate. If you use gps to plant seeds, you need to have some other place to store it, while way too take it to the harvesting machine, and it needs to read a bunch of different sensors and use a bunch of actuators to do all the work. You can modularise for sure. But you need all bits to remain competitive.
They'd probably be better off just not using much software at all. Many of the farmers might even like that. I've even heard some older tractors sell more than the newer ones for this reason specifically.
@@urphakeandgey6308 i wouldn't say many. Up until this bs, it's allowed farmers to expand and gain yields. Deere just wants to capitalize off of maintenance. If they don't want to have open software, they need to drop service fees and decrease cost of loaner machines while down. It shouldn't cost 500 bucks just for a technician to get in their truck. Especially if they are forcing your hand to call them out.
As a guy that has always done his own repairs on ALL my equipment and vehicles I’ve been say this FOR YEARS !!! They DONT want you to repair your OWN equipment !!!
They don’t want the government to regulate so they still have all the control and leverage. It really is disgusting what they’re doing to the farming industry.
CAT, Liebherr, Volvo, Komatsu, Construction, Mining, Deep Foundation etc etc theyre all being controlled the same, and from what i recently heard CAT is trying to extend their control on equipment repair even more, so basically anything minuscule happens and its only CAT who can touch it
CAT literally stated they’re doing so to increase their profits for 2021 & the coming years. And ensure people will keep coming back to them for just about everything.
When Volkswagen created the Beetle, it was kept in mind that every owner should be able to repair it with basic hand tools themselves. This was the most sold model car in the world ever and still holding this title. Volkswagen did not lose money by doing so but created customer’s fidelity Today’s is all about profit to shareholders Shame on you! 21st Century manufacturers
As an owner of many vw aircooled Beetles i can say that this is was the first thought... but as you looking to the beetles owner manuals year per year you will notice that on later years manuals start removing lot of staff how to maintenance / repair it by your self... it was the period that discover that the real money in on repairs and maintenance . they start using => if....... - please visit local vw distributor
It is corporate treason... these same corporations funded all sides of the wars... they created Nazi Germany and the USSR, North Korea communist China, Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc
If you don't have the right to fix a piece of property you own, then you don't own it. "Right to Repair" affects us all, not just farmers. I sincerely appreciate Vice shining a light on this issue.
@@JerryDLTN I see what you're saying, but those taxes are (ideally, at least) more about supporting various government services on different levels whereas Apple and other companies just don't like the thought of their profit margin being reduced
@@alphanerd7221 no that's a ridiculous statement. Some manufacturers want to monopolize the repair work for their products. When they do things like refuse to sell their customers genuine parts or even make them available at reasonable prices, or if they use proprietary software that can only be accessed with their equipment, then they effectively deny anyone but themselves the ability to do any repairs. If one chooses to "repair" the item (as you put it), then what happens is the item doesn't get fixed at all. It gets more broken.
They’re doing this in all industries. As a Ford master tech, I’ve watched it with the cars. And people are fighting for the right to repair Apple phones. Coming from a family of farmers. It’s sickens me what they’re doing. What I’m afraid of is now that all our land GPS mapped. It will be a flip of a switch to replace the farmer. Time to change colors :-) quality food for kids and bring back a small farmer. As all these companies have done nothing but taken our family seed our land. Just for our government to give it to China. We were all proud of the family heirloom seed. And they robbed us. It’s time for Americans to start helping Americans growing quality food for each other. This mess is not sustainable.
Everyday city people don't realize how important this is, but it affects the prices of so many necessary goods. Farmers' rights to repair should be taken just as seriously as people's right to have their IPhones be repaired easily. Good on Vice for bringing the farmers' struggles into the limelight.
You'd be surprised how much the Farmer's RTR movement gets talked about in Open-source tech spaces pushing RTR on the software and consumer hardware side. Companies like iFixit and groups like the EFF have written briefs and testified for Farm-oriented bills, not just consumer oriented ones. Farmers are certainly the vanguard for it right now though.
Hopefully more seriously because I don't think the ability to repair phones gets taken seriously at all. Hell almost all of the flagships phones these days are specially designed to not be worth repairing, and they stop supporting them with updates after 3-4 years, so even if the battery still works, you're going to have to upgrade if you don't want a phone increasingly vulnerable to exploits due to outdated software.
It doesn't affect the price. The price isn't determined by what the farmers are willing to sell their crop for, the price is determined by what the major crop purchasers are willing to pay.
@@orionsimerl6539 to an extent. If the farmers aren't making any money selling a certain crop though, they'll just stop growing it, in which case supply will drop and prices will increase. The price has to at least be enough to cover the farmers cost, otherwise they go out of business or switch to growing something that is profitable. Supply and demand still applies even in a monopoly, nothing is perfectly inelastic, at some point something will give.
It’s not just John Deere that’s like that. Apple is doing the same thing with their phones. Even if you buy legitimate parts for your phone, you can’t install them because they’re all serialized. They just won’t work. In the iPhone 12, you can’t repair it anywhere but Apple. All the parts need software to be run or they just won’t work. Even something as simple as a battery and it’s only gonna get worse.
Been going on for decades! Just getting worse. This problem goes for ANTTHING repairable and electronic. You get "Proprietary" or just plain no. End of story.
I spoke to a dealer in Virginia about my mid 80s Kubota tractor, and they told me it was the last good generation of tractors that an owner was able to easily repair.
@@Patchuchan It happens more than you think. My stepfather kept older equipment available for just that scenario. The neighbors and family members did the same. There was always some way to keep some of the equipment moving, albeit at a slower pace. At least until the repairs could be done.
Its a part of the let's have the tax payer pay for the infrastructure And to use it The companies often aren't expected to pay their share of taxes And how often are expecting and getting various other incentives to be so good as to bring their business to an area And then the we'll go somewhere else if you don't keep giving us deals and take jobs with us And the jockeying things around so how many jobs are here ? How many out of country? How much of the money in the company going out of country let us line itemize everything And make every new generation of something need all new accessories The hey shut and just be ok with whatever bits of trash we throw your way Cause we (the companies and the people of high income) don't have to be accountable That's what they're buying The power to do whatever they want and even if caught for doing anything that is prosecutable As long as the money flows To the right people They might get a little slap (probably on the back) Their sentences set aside Free advertising Protections put in place to protect THEM And an excuse to tack more on to the cost of the product/service they "provide" Because it's in their contract that legal fees are paid for by the company And taking away from the elite shouldn't be but from Farmers Truck drivers Waitresses Cashiers Daycare workers Teachers Cleaners Stockers Factory workers Gas station workers Fast food workers Even Nursing home And Hospital workers It's a mess
It's about par for course at this point. It shouldn't be, but fucking people over on property rights is normal business. Now, what's really fucked up is charging a seventy year old man more than one million dollars for his COVID treatment. What's really fucked up is my local hospital giving it's janitorial staff insurance that they do not accept.
Rules and Regulationswhat our government has become . Look at it now and the history this government has. Capitalist society . No longer what we thought we fought for or stand for.
companies were always greedy. just look at what they used to do the unions back in a day. 50 years ago they didn't have the tech prevent repairs, otherwise they would do it
It's the greed and corruption of these large companies that keep me a Pirate!! Arrrr matey! I download all my enteratinment from movies, music, television shows, programs & games for past 12 years.......still goin!!
@@nonegiven2830Let's keep the left and right out of this issue. This affects every single one of us and if we don't come together on this issue and use this to score political points on each other things will never get better. No country in the world currently is fully capitalist, socialist or communist anymore and that's how it should be. America gives subsidies to companies and bussinesses all the time, that's not capitalism but at the same time there's a free market. Us also has social security ffs. Same goes for european countries where there are more social welfare programs compared to the US but the market is still free and have capitalistic values. Scandinavian countries aren't socialist either, they might have more welfare programs but they aren't socialists. You can take the good from both and combine it. Even China isn't totally communist in terms of business and economy, they have a relatively free market. So, stop being a child and have a bit of a nuanced view on this world we live in. It's not black and white.
As a person who enjoys videogame modding and making plugins for software. I have never felt such direct relation to the Farmers who have to deal with "Tractor DRM"
The Government does not want you to fix you Tractors 🚜 I have a been a mechanic for 45 years plus and I know what you guys are going through. Love you guys will always support you.💪🏻👍🏻🇨🇦🏁🚜
*buys tractor* Company: "This comes with a 5 year warranty on any parts and repairs!" *2 months later, doesn't turn on* Company: "Please pay $1000 to transport it to us so we can tell you to buy a new part because we don't support the parts in this tractor anymore"
It's just as bad in the automotive industry. I had to junk out a good running 03 dodge neon because the transponder would not recognize the key. It put itself in (anti theft) mode and even the dealership said they didn't have the outdated software to reprogram the system.
tell me about it, i had to junk a dodge stratus and my e-350 powerstroke because i couldn't get parts. idiots at the dealer and parts stores always try to bullshit me and tell me all parts are the same for the powerstroke. according to dealer and parts store stratus doesn't have fuel filters, sadly i believe the manual listed 4 but there's at least five types.
there is only one problem. imagine you have an idea, so you start a company and make that item. now a big company sees that and goes "thats mine now" a bigger company can push it harder and squish you out. thats why patents and copyright are a thing
I see a million and one people asking for open sourced technology, but only so many people willing to put the years required into making something professional level and then just giving the secrets away.
Im all for these guys being able to repair THEIR property, they paid for it they should be able to do what they want. But the most amazing this in this video is the Nebraska representative advocating for the people. I mean wow. Its a sad day in America when someone is amazed that a representative is representing the people, and not some company, or rich person.
@Lando Calrizzi soon everything will be integrated into the internet. Every household appliance and home. None of it belongs to you because it all has an end user license and mandatory services.
Great memories relit when I saw the Farmall A in its red splendor. Like the presenter, I learned to drive on our farm at age 9 in Australia & had to stand up to reach the pedals. Thank you for the presentation & wish you all well in your quest for knowledge which you have paid for but been blocked from receiving by monopoly.
That's just capitalism at it's finest... Want something even better? Printer. See how well they last and go ahead and try to repair them. Tried to fix one once, it's maddeningly difficult.
Farm equipment is put through a lot of strain for long periods of time. Wires get pinched, bars get bent, things break. Only difference is with the old ones are incredibly easy to work on, so you can be back up and runningin a couple hours with three wrenches and the replacement part.
Nah, this isn't a car it's a working machine. These things are pushed to their limits often for 20 hours a day during planting seasons. John Deere equipment is good that's why people pay the price.
People are finally starting to see and understand how these big businesses are monopolizing entire industries. From WALMART and Home Depot to John Deere’s service department. Intentionally creating control for every aspect of their products and usage.
Well said that's why the big box stores were allowed to work right through the pandemic. while little stores had to close because people could get sick there. They're trying to destroy the middle class that with its entrepreneurialship. Where do they want to go with all this? Think the 1300s when everybody was a surf when everybody owed their whole life and everything they had to the king and to the church,.. That's why the Protestant Reformation started was to free people from overregulation, from the tyranny of evil men both kings and popes. Kings and Popes working together to control everybody and take all their money. They want us to be slaves again. My great-great-grandfather great great great... Left France in 1590 to go to Denmark to sell on 400 ships with with King William the red out of Denmark.... They sailed to England overthrew the king and the Catholics and established Protestants freedom for everyone again.... My third great grandfather fought with General Washington to give us freedom here... All they want now is to take away our freedom and have us all as surfs and slaves again... The only thing they seek to do is to divide and conquer... You're white I'm black You're poor You're rich... God help us all... I guess history has to repeat itself blood must be shed probably.... The ignorance of the elite and their arrogance promotes tyranny.... They should expect resistance.
@@Kiinqx_ it's more of an oligopoly but they are because they have purchasing power, they can get stuff cheaper than anyone else because they can buy more than anyone else, this makes it hard for new entrants
Kaz, "Gunfight by The Moonlight," Miller yep, caterpillar started it, and in modern day America we have taken capitalism to its limits, morals or customers don’t matter only profits matter and anything that makes you more money is better...
@@robertw1871 let's delve into this deeper. I think it's the greed and selfishness in the hearts of men that's at the root. We can change the economic system, apply more oversight over corporations, institute laws and sanctions. But in the end it comes down to a lack of morals and empathy. And that demon of greed and lust will always find a way to feed itself
I love how the official statement says that consumers should work together with manufacturers to come to a common ground rather than going to legislation. The fact of the matter is every time that has been attempted, the manufacturers usually laugh them out of the building.
@@capthawkeye8010 they are but not really. Do you think car companys wanted all the pollution control measures? do you think car manufacturers wanted to increase every car by 1k plus for a catalytic converter? under the bonnet a third the junk is pollution control. The problem is idiot women are over half the voters and have no interest in fixing stuff, just throwing it in the river getting BOUGHT new and shiney.
@@nikitaw1982But then how will those poor defenseless giant corporations squeeze every last dime out of someone so they can pay their CEO a few thousand more per hour for doing absolutely nothing? :(
Astro Kitty , that depends, I’ve had only an iPhone 5 and this iPhone SE, both extremely reliable phones, it wasn’t until I blew a fuse on my iPhone 5 that i replaced it since it would cost me more to buy equipment to replace that fuse. This iPhone SE has been reliable and I don’t plan on replacing it until it either breaks down, or I find an amazing deal on a phone that makes this one obsolete. Why would you want to replace an old toaster? Well you gotta take into consideration efficiency. Some things just consume too much energy, technology of the past isn’t worth maintaining sometimes
Fortunately, the small stuff is still completely mechanical. We have a john deere zero point turn mower and there's not a single bit in it that is digital.
Just so you know it’s not just Deere pretty much every single farm equipment company is like this they are just the biggest. If anything John Deere is the best at making it easier for farmers to work on their own equipment throughout the 1900s Deere was one of the last companies to keep building 2 cylinder tractors after everyone else was building 4 cylinders they finally built 4 cylinders after the technology was improved they were the same way about 4 track tractors Case had been doing it since the 90’s but Deere steeped in with a much better design in 2016 when they were able to produce the best that Deere could produce
No Marxism makes junk cause nobody tries at work. Engineered obsolescence is a capitalistic invention so they can sell you something over and over again. Constant access to your free wallet. Nothin to do with Marxism
@@frjcde9392 marxism? tf, its america XD this looks more like the capitalist dream for industries. complete power/control on the product, even after they were bought!
As and electronics technician, I wholly support this bill! I can find parts and schematics for radios that were built in the 1930's and before. Even Hifi stereos built in the 1970's would have a schematic diagram hiding inside, and repair components are readily available to get them in working condition. Repairing a 10 year old flat-panel TV however is next to impossible if it's a semiconductor that's failed. Just like the farmer, the chips are "dead" when they arrive and must be programmed. even then, there is a *LOT* of custom chips that were only made for the run of that particular model TV...yet, I can get a transistor to repair a 1970's RCA television very easily!
Ever person with access to the pirated software, should share it to every other machine owner and mechanic in their district, and totally flood the market with it. As a mechanic, going out into the field without tools required for a job, just doesn't cut it. The diagnostic software doesn't drive down to the local store to purchase the parts required, after the problem is identified.
I used to deliver John Deere parts to the dealerships and I got to see the invoices for the parts. A lot of those parts are being marked up 1000% or more. I'm sure John Deere isn't the only shady farm equipment company but they are pretty shady in how they conduct their business. One thing is for sure, if I ever have a need for a tractor, I won't be buying a John Deere.
I think farm products in general are being marked up for farmers. My dad can walk into the farm supply store and rack up a 100 dollar bill on just a few odds and ends.
planned obsolesce is correct. in ten or twenty years deere will say they don't support the software for your 2022 new tractor and you will be stuck with a machine that could work but can't. they will force you to buy new tractors to support the manufacturers. we can still get parts for 8N fords or B model JDs but the computer controlled tractors and equipment have a limited life because of software dependence
@@rickl7024 Whatever makes $$$ for the tax slave colony of the "united" slaves of a$$holes.. good job, Uncle Scam and american mafia passing for a government!
@@rickl7024 I'm no farmer, but I'm a computer enthusiast. What do you think how bad it's getting to not be able to repair my phone, computer, because they want us to just buy a new one...
Never comply! Get the tools to fix everything you own. Why, because you can. No one fixes anything I own. My House, trucks, tractors, small engine, motorcycle, etc.
John Deere’s statement is funny. The people are turning to government to solve the problem that you created. If you didn’t want that, you should’ve cooperated when they asked nicely
I thought the same "Customers, dealers and manufacturers should work together" "They declined our request to visit Nebraska dealerships" Actions speak louder than words.
Exactly. They didn't see beyond the spreadsheet that didn't show customer anger at being ripped off then ignored. Follow up with buying a make that doesn't pull this kind of nasty. Deere is far from being the only producer of farm machinery.
@@the3idiots14 Oh yes... you had a cute little petition to have them removed... How many **LOCAL** signatures did you have? (Any from outside the area do **NOT** count) now compare that number that actually count, to the total population within that area... if it did not exceed 50% then you do **NOT** have the right to "tear them down".... If it worries you so much, put it on the local ballot to be voted upon. Otherwise, pound sand...
This has nothing to do with Big Tech. This is an issue with nothing-happening 'American' brands that are destroying their business in America with stupid business practices.
What it shows is how people get so easily tricked into buying shitty products. People still buy apple ffs, it looks good but they literally lie to your face.
The last words are so true. I still see lots of 1950s, 60s, 70s tractors working. How many 1990s tractors and above are going to be working in 20 years?
I'm currently in the market for a used tractor, I was looking at a deere 3032 with loader & 4x4... but now idk. Who makes an equivalent machine that I'll be able fix myself?
WE ARE STILL USING MY GRANDFATHER'S I.H. FARMALL SUPER A, AND MY DAD'S FORD JUBILEE AND ALL 4 OF HIS FORD 4OOO DIESELS. WE MAY HAVE TO WORK LONGER TO GET THE WORK DONE, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT GETS DONE, AND ANYTHING THAT DOES GO WRONG WITH OUR EQUIPMENT, BETWEEN MY 4 BROTHERS AND MYSELF, WE CAN FIX IT. WE CAN SEPARATE, DISASSEMBLE, AND REBUILD OUR SUPER A IN JUST UNDER 24 HOURS, GRANTED WE HAVE ALL OF THE NEW PARTS AND GASKETS.
I work for deere today they lost a lawsuit over this. You can now communicate with a tractor via a subscription and guess what? My dealer i work for pays that same subscription. You can buy an EDL (your brain in between your laptop, basically a cod inscription tool) over you local deere part counter. But im here to tell you unless your farming 5k acres its not worth it. Find a pirated version. Its just like modern day cars (whick i also worked on professionally). Your not talking to your mercedes the way you need to or a dodge for that matter with top of the line scan tool. Today its everywhere and yes i strongly disagree with not being able to obtain software. Its a way for someone with deep pockets to make em deeper. Its time we stand up and pass a law not just for deere but EVERYONE.
JUST LIKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THINGS ON YOUR OWN HOUSE THAT YOU PAY THE TAXES ON, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH STUPID GOV'T MORONS TELLING YOU YOU CAN'T DO THIS OR YOU CAN'T DO THAT....................YOU PAY THE TAXES AND DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE CHANGES ON YOUR OWN HOUSE............GOV'T IS TOO BIG,,,,,,,,,,,,,,GET RID OF IT..............
They're a bunch of dumbasses that want to tinker with complicated subsystems on these machines instead of paying a licensed mechanic. That's all this is about. John Deere didn't want to just email them the diagnostic software and told them to go to a professional. If they do something wrong they could completely break the combines or make the brakes not work or who knows what else could happen. This isn't like tightening a fan belt or filling up the tires. Other dumbasses in local government passed a stupid bill and now John Deere gave them a version of the software that reads the error codes but doesn't actually let you make changes to the software. I'm pretty sure that basically means you can't actually change software parameters. How could they allow that and not risk being held liable if somebody say gets run over by a combine? The farmers would probably blame John Deere for the brakes failing and forget to mention that they tinkered with them a lil bit earlier. At least this is the defense of the company. Are they right? I'd say probably but who knows. You can break the mechanicals too and John Deere wouldn't be liable in the case of an accident so why would software be any different.
There is only one way to stop this moronic trend, DON'T BUY THEIR CARS! Once they find out how we really feel (showing opinions with our wallet not our muth!) they will drop that idea. Same thing happened with stupid talking cars idea, EVERYONE hated them, told them so, and wouldn't buy them. The talking cars disappeared in a matter of months. WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING NOW TO THIS IDEA - DON'T BUY "SEALED" CARS!
@@robertmaybeth3434 yeah but even then they can "force" you like the man in the video said about the gps, Deere said they dont support it anymore (or discontinued) and then youre screwed. its like with these electric cars, in Norway and Germany theyve started to ban all vehicles except for natural gas and electric cars
I can go to any car dealership (EXCEPT TESLA) and buy the parts I need to fix my car and truck. The problem with that is.....these vehicles are so complex and tight inside the engine area, etc... that I would need a ford computer program, scanners, etc (for example) to work on my ford f350 diesel one ton. Remember the good old days when you COULD actually do some major work on your car or truck without breaking the bank?
Its actually a re-upload of a Motherboard report from at least 2 years ago. Notice the watermark. Edit: They mention it in the description :"This video was originally aired on Motherboard in 2018. "
@@r7kelley553 If what that guy above said is correct about them reuploading someone else's story from a few years ago, maybe people are finding it's just a refreshing change from the current Vice standard stories promoting cucking or child drag queens.
@Lovecraft until it doesn't... Hence having to make costly repairs only the dealer can fix. Often over priced even if it's a simple fix. Sure phones have planed obsolescence, but the manufacturers in both of these cases want if not expect you to return to them to increase their profits, be it by replacing the item or preforming maintenance only they can do
In that case, I should be able to go back to the place of purchase and exchange it for a new equipment whatever it is with no money out of pocket. Life Time Exchange Guarantee.
John deere’s statement was funny as hell. Basically said “no please dont get the government involved because then we will actually have to sell you parts. Please just let us keep you on a leash and tell you to buy all new”
Well, Republicans (and Libertarians too, but they are a fringe political party) have made the word "regulation" a dirty word. If businesses had no regulation, we would have no clean water. No clean air. No overtime pay laws. No child labor laws. No holiday pay. No vacation pay. No 40 hour work week. No workplace safety practices. And many other things that we only have because government had to step in and mandate these things because it was cheaper for the corporation to not offer any of them without being compelled by law to do so.
I’m a Silicon Valley software developer. The security concern is total bs. We have encryption and authentication protocols that handle that. If this was a real issue of vulnerability it wouldn’t be a tractor company that was worried it would be stock brokers and the military
This is a problem. We can not have greed collapsing our food chain and putting our legacy farmers out of business because a company refuses to stop screwing with programming
It's not just farmers, everyone is affected by this, your phones can't be repaired by a third party. Same goes for video games, you buy a game then you pay more for secret character or skin etc. We own nothing completely anymore.
My response to JD's attitude towards their loyal customers was to look 'far&wide' for an acceptable alternative. I was surprised to find a much better designed&fabricated, versatile and stronger machine: I purchased a $50K Kubota SSV75PHFRC to replace my JD955. Nearly 3 years later, I still automatically smile every time I'm even near my Kubota. Such a wonderful machine!
All well and good but you have to remember. Americans love and i mean love american made products because "patriotism" so buying foreign is literally foreign and taboo.
Awesome. I laughed when that dirtbag said they'd stop selling their tractors in Nebraska for example. Good. Stop then. As if a less scummy company wouldn't immediately step up.
This is Vice at it's best. Giving a voice to the people is essential for democracy. You impartially and accurately conveyed the intent of real people, and provided real avenues for change.
They shouldn't pay for it, they should be able to fix it without having to pay basically a subscription to fix it. If they have to lets just not fix it and watch america's economy break
I think the John Deere is severely damaging their brand and that this type of behavior will severely backfire on them. Farmers should not give up control of their expensive machines to programmers.
@David David This isn't a complex problem. Give the farmers the tools to fix the tractors. The company deliberately makes the equipment inaccessible to fix unless to have the right software(to connect the sensors on the new part to the main computer)...which only John Deer has. That's called a monopoly, and those only cause problems. Also, you speak of programming being challenging. Well, you're dead wrong. Programming is bloody easy. Anyone is mentally capable of creating simple programs and rooting devices. If I can buy an Intel CPU and install it on my PC without going to an Intel "dealership", then a farmer should be able to buy a John Deer part and install it on John Deer tractor. Also, we're talking about tractor hardware breaking and not replacing the whole bloody computer.
@David David I'm a programmer, but making diagnostic software for embedded hardware on items which should be otherwise user-serviceable is despicable. Even as a programmer I cannot reasonably do anything on my car besides read federally-mandated OBD2 codes. Even if you packet sniff CAN busses, the traffic is meaningless without the manufacturer releasing information on what the data means or if they actually make control module firmware available (which they don't). It is not a problem of user intellect but rather poor product design and business practices that should be illegal.
**IMPORTANT IF YOU LIVE IN HI or MA** - the state that pioneered the Automotive Right to Repair and the reason that we now have it across the country. It doesn't take a lot of people to make a big impact at the state level so please take a minute to help out! Links are at the bottom! I can actually give specific context related to this issue and answer questions because I work with a non-profit that's a member of the Right to Repair coalition. There's some good news on multiple fronts (1) but I'm more familiar with MA than HI so I'll start with that. MA currently has a Digital Right to Repair Bill that passed favorably out of its committee (2) and will be voted on in our legislature before the end of this summer. This covers products from computers/cell phones to the computer components of things like farm equipment and washing machines. Contact your state representatives (3) and voice your support for S.107 (4) / H.218 (5). It's odds of passing appear good but a final push is always important! Repair.org also made a template (6) for us that has examples of what to say when you get in touch, if you want it. Here (7) is a video of the MA Digital RtR bill's Joint public hearing if you're curious (starts @31:50, and here's Part 2 (8)). Unfortunately the bills related to heavy duty vehicles themselves (their non-computer parts) and strengthening the current auto repair law got recommended for further study, which essentially means they're not going to pass this session. Although the automotive one did get enough signatures to be a Nov. 2020 ballot question in MA, so vote for it there! Here (9) is a link to the others' MA public hearing as well. For Hawaii, they also introduced a similar Digital Right to Repair Bill which passed unanimously out of its committee (10). Its versions are here: House (11) and Senate (12). You can find your Hawaii State legislator here (13). Repair.org also made a template (14) for your state that has examples of what to say when you get in touch, if you want it. It's Senate hearing can be found here (15) (the 2/6/2020 video @30:00). It'd be awesome if Vice could favorite/pin this comment for others to see. Thank you! Links 1) uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/right-repair-surges-forward-multiple-fronts-start-2020 2) uspirg.org/news/usp/right-repair-wins-day-massachusetts-legislature-clears-committee 3) malegislature.gov/search/findmylegislator 4) malegislature.gov/Bills/191/S107 5) malegislature.gov/Bills/191/H218 6) states.repair.org/states/massachusetts 7) ua-cam.com/video/Orb8gT4itOA/v-deo.html 8) ua-cam.com/video/atdk1uS04D0/v-deo.html 9) malegislature.gov/Events/Hearings/Detail/3388 10) uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/hawaii-committee-votes-unanimously-advance-right-repair 11) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1884&year=2020 12) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2496&year=2020 13) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/findleg.aspx 14) states.repair.org/states/hawaii/ 15) olelo.granicus.com/ViewSearchResults.php?view_id=46&types%5BClip%5D=on&types%5BAgendaItem%5D=on&types%5BCaption%5D=on&allwords=HB1884
Years ago I worked for a major VME- JCB- Bobcat dealership in Europe, and our techs always worked in the field, clients never had to bring machinery to the shop except for a major brake down (engine overhaul or transmission work). It even happened a few times that the customer had a shop and they managed to tear an engine apart without having to bring it down to the shop.
I have a 4100 JD, I live 2 mile from Fields John Deere in Florida. Every time I go in there they charge me 4 or 5 times what the part should really cost. A few years ago I had a front wheel bearing went out. (4 wheel drive) so I took off the front hub and took it to them , They charged me 450 dollars to rebuild that hub. And turns out later I discovered they only changed 1 bearing. then 2 years later the other side went out so I just just took the tractor to them . they charged me 1200 dollars to rebuild this side. I got my tractor back drove it for less than 3 min and it was making a very loud noise from that just rebuilt hub. So I took it a part myself, thinking if I take it back to them they will say another part went bad and charge me 1200 again. and what I found blew my mind. First I drained out the old used motor oil they put in my front differential. What should have been new 80 or 90 w gear oil. then I discovered the bearing that went bad they did NOT even put a bearing in and the axle was just flopping around inside tearing up the housing. and again I payed them to rebuild this hub they never replaced any bearing. and my last dealing with them my hydraulic cylinder started leaking. I have a 4100 so the cylinders are only 1 1/2 boar and they make these so you have to take them in for repair because they put a lock ring up inside the cylinder and it's very hard to get out. I let them rebuild the tilt cylinders 400 dollars. then time for the lift cylinders i was going to do it myself they wanted 200 dollars just for 2 o-ring kits , which is about 4 or 5 little O-Rings and a orange v grove ring . I went on line and found them for 18 dollars each. Green Parts.com. they have a phone number on the front page of web site . great customer service. a wheel bearing is 8 dollars. wheel seal 4 dollars. I will never go to John Deere ever again.
@Samuel Yes. They still produce Basic Old Classic Models I believe... We used to have a few in mid 80's. But the after sales support was not good. I don't blame them as we don't had many unit in our country. Anything you would like to Add? Pls
I got a drive belts from them they love to rip me off. My hustler is also a joke their name is what you are paying for my 2014 raptor sd my dad only had it for 6 years last year it started to break down starter blew i get it fix but my former school only fix what it can do. Eairer this year pto clutch magnet fell off. If you want to have things around go after 1970s and 1980s zero turn or garden mowers. Club mowers also very bad.
It's actually unlikely. John Deere tried that in China, where existing laws aimed at protecting farmers and ensure food security (which they consider a part of national security) forbids locking out 3rd party repair/monopolizing of repair. The Chinese government's response was "feel free to price your products at whatever the market will bear, that's your right, but if you're selling in our country, you're following our laws. We made Tesla do it, we're making you do it." John Deere caved. They never managed to get a foothold for their general purpose tractors, due to competition from cheaper, less computerized and easier to repair domestic Chinese manufacturers. But they made fantastic profit from some niche markets such as cotton harvesters, due to relative lack of competition from Chinese manufacturers. Lack of repair monopoly didn't seem to hurt their profit. Bottom line: the government needs to grow a pair and stand up to the corporations. In the Chinese constitutions, one of the basic functions of the government was stated as protecting the weakest members of society from the strongest. In this case, it would be the individual farmers from corporations. America was an pre-industrialized agrarian society 250 years ago. If our founding fathers realized that corporations will one day dominate every aspect of our lives, they too would have enshrined the protection of the people from corporations in the constitution.
Sure, but they do that at their own peril. Raising prices arbitrarily creates profit margin, which incentivizes competition to the extent of that margin. It would just be shooting themselves in the foot.
@@elyvaliente9511 It's not the capitalism that's flawed. It's John Deere. The bad intentions of JD execs would exist no matter what economic system were in place.
@@PeterLawton that’s just not true. They lobby the government so they’re allowed to monopolize fixing tractors. Capitalism allows Jon Deere to be as fucked up to their clients as they want.
@@elyvaliente9511 my statement is that their intentions would be the same under any system. If another system prevents actions we are currently seeing, those same bad intentions will just find another way to be bad. And you disagree with that.
@@PeterLawton I’m not saying their intentions would be any different. A scumbag is a scumbag wether socialist communist or capitalist. But under capitalism whoever has the most money writes the rules. These farmers are technically criminals because they’re going against the company rules. But we don’t see them that way because John Deere are the real bad guys. They’re the bad guys because they can pay off a capitalist system that allows them.
Louis Rossman, just casually in the background of the hearing. That man needs more credit for what he does for the Right to Repair Movement. @ 8:50 in the video
basically all we use is old tractors, i think the newest tractor we have is from the early 80s. We have Allis Chalmers WC tractors from almost before World War II we use
A older farm that we used to trade labor and equipment was always saying cheap HP was the older tractors. That was in the 80s 90s buying used big tractors at auction cheap because most people at the auction wanted the weekend farmers tractors
the repair is what makes John deer their money, alot of the time they sell the machine at cost or below cost, because they know the person has no choice to purchase the parts or get the tools repaired by them
Apple got all their hard work stolen by China, Biden made a fortune betraying America in this trade war. Trump tried unsuccessfully to stop them and so they blamed him and accused him of starting a trade war with China. That's exactly why.
Air conditioning systems like Trane have services that also restrict repair without paying again and again. This practice is unfortunately embedded in several industries. John Deere, Tesla, Apple, Trane and their are many more.
@David David It costed me US$170 to replace my Samsung Galaxy screen and I did the replacement myself. You have to disassemble the whole thing and remove almost every piece.
When I stopped being able to change my oil or do a diagnostic without a special tool or program, I started leaning on my older vehicles. I love being able to rebuild the engine myself.
@@johngrepo9976 We don't have to go backwards to solve this problem. We just need to take back control of our once representative government from corporate lobbyists and interest groups. The government isn't the bad guy here, its the corporations that now own and install bureaucrats who serve them, not us. Get the money out of politics and you'll solve a lot of these problems. The rest is making your average American schlub care enough about politics to get involved and at the very least vote. Those complex pieces of equipment make the same plot of land several times more productive and profitable than they were even 15 years ago, just like modern cars are safer and more reliable than ever. Nobody actually wants to go back to a time where large commercial engines had points and carburetors instead of modern digital control systems that are capable of telling you exactly what's gone wrong with them down to the circuit or fuse. Nobody wants to go back to a time before seat belts and advanced SRS. Just give us access to the products we pay for at a reasonable price.
You all act like learning new skills is a bad thing. I do this for a living and it isn't any harder to fix a modern car. Rebuilding an engine has been the same process for forever. You can buy factory diagnostic equipment for automobiles, or if youre a real broke ass, make friends with someone who works at a shop and bum scans and resets off of them.
@@joshbarth9469 Its easier to work on the electronic parts. Or atleast it is in my opinion. Good thing the open sourced software variant is protected by every aspect of the government
Yeah I'd say it's the same for any modern large machines. Heck if my electric wheelchair has a problem the company comes out & links to it via software on a phone I don't have acsess to. Then if that can't find the problem, of it detects a problem they can't fix they take my wheelchair away & charge me a tonne, being very vague & secretive about what the actual problem was & how they actually fixed it. People are hacking their own wheelchairs & I'm looking into it (like removing the speed limiter) but as soon as I mess with it my warranty is void. Finding wheelchair insurance was hard enough, hacking my wheelchair would limit my options more or hike up the cost I can barely afford anyway. If I knew enough, companies weren't so secretive & I had acsess to the software & whatever secret tech they keep in their garage, I could save a tonne of money fixing my chair myself. Parts is another huge problem, no company sell direct to users, they all have to go through a dealer, often a pushy dealer trying to make a profit. I'm trying to find out how much a new back would cost & it's impossible to find out online, they all bounce me to to sellers or offer to visit for am "assessment" aka sales patter. I've asessed my own needs, found suitable solutiins & want to know the price of specific products you make! If I could afford to I'd buy a second wheelchair, buy second hand parts from eBay & practice stuff myself but again the softwear & whatever tech they keep hidden limits private individual options.
I am in trucking industry, its the same here, if you have an issue that needs soft diagnostics and other stuff that is a little more complicated than changing a bulb, than only Freightliner, Detroit, Volvo, Cummins, are the ones who can work on their stuff, they usually may get their soft and training after a huge paywall that other mechanics can't have access to due to extreme pricing and constant updates...
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Si gracias
Gracias 🫂
Gracias
aquí es donde nacen los usuarios de Linux.
Siempre me han encantado los videos de Vice, tener audios en español es simple magnifico, gracias por pensar por los hispanohablantes que ven sus videos
How in the world did US manage to fuck up so bad? I never thought we even needed an act which allow us to repair what we own
Democrats is how
it's one thing to lock down a vehicle to make money on repairs. Tesla doing everything themselves gives them 100% knowledge of failure data
Christopher Vasquez oh ya because Democrats are known for there love of the rich stfuw
@Frank L Tesla might make to some point sense in case of self driving car and that it's overall new so that they don't end up with the blame if someone did repair or "repair" their Tesla by bugging out things.
@@durkala Democrats? Hate to break it to you, but Republicans are just as on board with IP laws like this. Crow, when you get away from small farming outfits, I don't see conservatives fighting this stuff, most of the activism is coming from the liberal side. Even most of agribusiness is in favor of these restrictions.
I work for Deere, and even people inside the company don't like this about the company. Keep pushing the issue, you will win. I am rooting for you! I don't have the power to make any changes, I just work for the company to make my living just like you farm your field to make a living to make yours. I'm all for justice. If I lose my job because you found justice in yours, so be it. I've been looking for a different job anyways. This is a litigation battle and not something you can blow a whistle over.
a company should make the best reliable equipment or it sabotages it's own name for minimal profit usually for shareholder profit margin
I got a thumb drive that says you DO havve the power haha
It must be rough to work at an immoral company
@@gregpalmer3831 It is actually. I hate their values and work culture. I'm currently seeking new employment that agrees with my values which is "the customer is always right." Deere says one thing, and does another. Everything in this video is true, and is a big reason I am leaving. They treat their employees like garbage as well. Everything changed after the Deere family sold the company and they became publicly traded. Deere's interest is only in market share value and the stockholder. They are blinded by this ethos and the farmer is the one that has paid for it. They will be around for a long time yet because of their patent ownerships and various other assets, but if they keep the same business model, they will fail over time. They are one of the closest industries to being a true monopoly in my opinion.
I commend you for being considerate of others lively-hood for the potential sacrifice of your own lively-hood. I can relate to this in a way. I work for a company that manufactures ammunition for the war fighters. Essentially the ammunition is used to destroy other people's property or take their lives. Why do we live in a world where this is acceptable? To defend yourself is reasonable but to go out and search and destroy is not. Especially at times like this when a virus is the world's enemy. I would not mind losing my job in order to better the human race collectively. If people would just come together on the same issue/resolution, revolutionary changes could occur for the better, for all mankind.
Time to stop buying John Deere. Screw them. Screw Apple. Screw any company hostile to field repair.
Yeah I'd stick to older equipment
I use an iPhone 5 and drive a 2009 crown victoria... never be tricked into buying brand new equipment.
What is needed is a mass boycott of all corporations engaged in these types of treasonous activities. We would find our lives much more fulfilling not spending time doing business with these sniveling cowards anyways. Boycott all major corporations and buy local or in your state and neighboring states. Starve the beast out.
Posted from an iPhone
@@texaslibertyadvocatenetwork But if you do that then you will end up living in hole that you dug up with your hands.
I’m a dealer field mechanic for Caterpillar. We lead the market in construction and mining equipment, compared to John Deere which is mostly agricultural. Our software is accessible to customers. They can see live data, perform diagnostic tests and flash ECMs. Our online system has complete diagrams, explains component function and step by step troubleshooting processes. Even if you know absolutely nothing about machines, we give you the resources to figure it out. CAT will always be superior to Deere.
God bless companies which respect their customers
Hell yeah! I only had CAT tractor toys as a kid cus I didn't want that Johny deer bull shrimp 🦐
It seems like business opportunity for CAT
As a farmer, I appreciate CAT's approach over John Deere. Perhaps it's time to change my entire operation over to CAT. I just wish CAT service wasn't so darned expensive. I guess the openness comes with a cost, right?
Sounds like there is a market opportunity for Cat in the agro field.
I’m not a farmer, but I am dependent on farmers, and want to see them do well.
Solectrac
This comment right there is golden
Shoot why do we need farmers when we got grocery stores
Hahaha jking
@Mastodon1976 huh??
We neglected our soil and food x food is king
For the money these farmers are paying for these tractors, john deere should be willing to send a technician to effect repairs. Free of charge.
exactly, the farmer that buys a brand new 300k base model combine and headers to suit, John Deere or any company selling that should come with a personal tech... or free access to software. Honestly.
John Deer should be giving them sexual favors for the ridiculous cost of these machines. Fortunately the software can't be that different from ODBII.
lol the farmers shouldnt even be in this situation. To be called activist just because the company support for the product you spend dozens of thousands of dollars sucks, and you move againsnt it... Where are the morals? That man bought your product, supported your company, and even still you still want to rip money off him. Big corporations are the scum of humanity, but a "necessary" evil unfortunately
Well that would be our family’s dream
@@rickb06 Considering that those bits of technology were invented and innovated by NASA for commercial use on the ground, it's no surprise that companies like John Deere would be itching to make some money off of exploiting farmers through their "latest" technology that might not even be better but, instead, worse compared to the older tractors made in the 1950s and earlier. The tractors in those times were built to last. Seeing how Hobart built electric stand-alone mixers and other kitchen tools to last, why can't John Deere and related companies do the same?
We need right to repair for *all* technology. Being able to keep our technology running is good for the environment *and* ourselves.
You need a Eastern European, we have all the rights to repair it ,for all technology. Out of need for working macins we lurn how to make it run.
You sound like a commie. Letting corporations wright the laws is what America is all about!!!!
@@ransom182 is this comment bait? lmao I can't tell if ur being serious
@@tlbusta6143 it's def sarcasm haha
@@tlbusta6143 well I mean if it was comment bait, you were jebaited
In 1984 I closed my shop and sold out all my tools. Farmers would sit at the coffee shop and say go get your tractors repaired at the dealer. They have all the special tools and knowledge to fix them. So did I. My cost investment exceeded any gain after 1980. Many machine shops and independent repair shops closed after me. I’m now retired after working on air conditioners. I just installed a new unit in my home and haven’t put one in anywhere since about 8 years ago. I couldn’t get anyone to finish my a/c lines using nitrogen so I bought all the supplies and finished it. A/C contractors get warrantee paranoia when you install your own equipment and they can’t charge you 10,000 or more and like the farming industry they hate and despise the DIYs! My hats off to all the last generation of farmers who brought us here.
I worked at a New Holland dealership in the 80's/90's and never would have dreamed where we would be today with tech. I have some JD equipment but it's all older, nothing with a board. I'm pretty sure even if I could, I would not buy anything new that says John Deere on it. On another note along the same lines, last year when my home A/C went down literally at 5:05 on a Friday night, I called the dealer and they said it would be the first of the week before I could expect a tech. So I did my own diagnostics. The blower fan motor wouldn't turn. There was nothing wrong with the motor itself, just the electronics that tell it turn. I went to my local HVAC guy, bought a motor and a couple other trinkets for less than $150, hooked it up myself and got air for the weekend. It was blowing too hard but at least we had air, and the temps outside were 100 degrees. When the dealer tech showed up, he told me I needed a new blower motor and a new main control board - $1200. He had to call in my unit serial number to the equipment company so the parts could be programmed to my unit before they were shipped. What insanity, and a complete money grab. Same thing JD is doing and it's spreading everywhere.
@@blythkd9017 I fixed my AC for $20 after lightning hit outside my house and flipped the circuit breaker so hard that it cracked. I also replaced the capacitor in the condenser outside but it may not have needed it. That was about $10 because it bought it online and had it shipped to me, so I didn't burn any gas or time getting it. Good thing they don't have serial numbers. iPhones do require that money grabbing process for some parts. So I bought an Android phone instead.
Only fitting you said 1984
I’m behind you guys 100%. Right to repair your own equipment is just a common sense right of survival.
Like car mechanics can so why not!
@@speedKGDM Car mechanics are qualified to fix their own cars by virtue of having had extensive training and experience in that area. Someone who went to Agricultural College didn't receive any training in that area, but many are willing to "have a bash" as though having training and experience is overrated.
@@deaddoll1361 you realise that to have machinery sent to a factory for repair is enough to ruin a crop
And to ban a man from repairing his own personal property is a constitutional violation
Your not going to take your car to a mechanic to change a flat tire are you?
Why should a farmer have to pay hundreds of thousamds of dollars for a repair a company has a monopolistic vise grip on.
@@PRIM1984 from what he’s saying, he probably would take it to the mechanic for a tire 😂
@@deaddoll1361 they’re qualified to fix other peoples cars. Anyone can fix their own car. Anyone should be able to fix their own tractor. Wtf is ur point
Simply put: John Deere is the Apple of the farming industry
Nailed it!
Wrong! .... Apple's stuff works !
Problem is all hardware manufacturers are realizing the "value" in vertical integration so they implant more and more software in their devices, and leverage pay for use schemes to their captive markets. All industry is going this way. Look at how Tesla treats secondary market transactions, or repair/rebuilds of cars. Not too surprising why Apple now wants to build a car.
apple tractor?. I tractor!
Nah Apple is the John Deere of phone industry
I support the farmers 100% and I don't even own a John Deere tractor
If you own anything electronic it effects you.
Thank u for this irrelevant information
Why not just boycott John Deere?
Same m8
apple, ford, gm, john deere all these companies do this it's not exclusive to anyone of them
I bought a John Deere 1028 Snow Blower because I thought that they were well-made and held its resale value. In the first season, the switches fell apart. I tried to buy new ones on Ebay and found that the switches are of a propriety design as well as the cutouts on the control panel. The cost of the John Deere replacement switches is extremely high at $45.00 each compared to $5.00 generic switches. I ended up having to modify the wiring harness and add a generic plug to use higher-quality Chinese-made generic switches.
God bless China.
Awesome! Fight this ridiculous process!
Companies are not worried about hackers. They are worried if you can fix that product you won't buy a new one or pay huge fees to the dealership.
Hi I'm Lee Johnson can you help me please. Hungry.🤡
Yeah, thats the point of the entire video
Tractor should be able to repair by individual, dealership should supply sparepart..i think that win win situation.
That does, therefore make them worried about hackers.
?
A late family friend of mine was a hoarder on the prairie in South Dakota. Hoarder In the sense he had 28 tractors but only ever needed 2 or 3 (small property). I asked him a few years before he died why he could afford a new house, new trucks, and so many nice guns, yet didn’t have a tractor younger than he was. They were all freaking ancient, and he told me he bought them all up for parts to keep his old reliable tractors running. Just to avoid this exact issue. He died happy with 28 tractors that were far cheaper than owning a new deer.
Los coches es lo mismo para cambia una pieza
no way
Thak you for sharing his story. It was good to hear sounds like my kinda guy.
Maybe today, you can still try making parts if you send a broken one to a workshop or somewhere, and keep gping for ever.
I see India people repairing old truck gearboxs and chassis.
Nice made-up story
I like the statement John Deere issued at the end,
"Customers, dealers, and manufacturers should work together on the issue rather than invite government regulation...".
Excuse me, I think that is why we are seeking government intervention is because you (Deere) won't work with us by giving farmers access to the diagnostic software.
RIGHT!
Just ten farmers take there deere back to the same dealer and say they can keep it. They will take note.
"Nothing Sues like a Deere!"
Yup!
Ths statement by John Deere to keep the government out of it is like the selfish bully in school that gets mad at the others for reporting his behaviour
The simple answer is; Do not buy a John Deere piece of equipment now ... and NEVER buy a piece of John Deere equipment moving forward. If everyone did that, they would back down.
Sounds like someone who doesn't need a tractor.
@@Ignis_1there are other better companies. I know no one who owns a John deere most have fendt, Deutz or claas
i think that the right to repair something you OWN is pretty reasonable, just saying.
That's the whole point. You aren't meant to OWN something today...
Corporations are arguing the "piracy" debate but really they still want control in what the consumers bought...
Downright evil and manipulate to change the narrative on what a trade is.
Corpos view: You buy you, we still own you so your technically renting our services (greed)
Reality: you buy and in return you receive full control of something to own...otherwise I don't own it
If this problem was in real estate im sure the problem would be very clear
Apple would like to know your location...
IKR. It also seems reasonable that should also be allowed to purchase their tractors from Caterpillar, Kubota, Jacobson etc but the law is clear: you must buy ONLY John Deer tractors.
shhhh, the fbi is en route to your house
“We can’t let people repair our equipment because it opens the gates to hackers”
*Meanwhile people are becoming hackers so they can repair their stuff*
the irony is real
Calling it hacking is misleading. They are using pirated diagnostic software, it's normal official tool but modified by someone to circumvent license checks. I guess you can say that the software was cracked, either way farmers are just using that pirated versions, they are not making them.
Using pirated software may be dangerous, you never know for sure what else the person who modified it put in, but if you have no other choice you will do it. Right to repair will fix that, allowing people to buy that diagnostic software legally.
But many of these huge corporations,will get into business with china , because of the cheap labor ,and give away their proprietary rights or tech,in order to make a huge profit. Then they whine to the u.s. government how unfair china treats them,lol. No one forced them to go there, GREEDY
If you follow the news,they got hacked because they had zero protection on their stuff without sharing anything.
@@pingwingugu5 what is hacking
The bypass of built in security or protocol checks without the permission of the owner or creator, with the intent to access a part of a system or gain knowledge otherwise unobtainable without a specified key or permission
They are hacking
Just cause they use a tool they didn't build doesn't mean they aren't hacking
Is a person who hacks the national security firewall less of a hacker because he didn't make the computer he used? Is a kid hacking call of duty less of a hacker because he used an actually completely legal software to do it? No, hacking is hacking by the definition, it is an act not a tool.
8:50 in the background is Louis Rossmann, he has a little board repair shop in NY and is on the frontlines of the right to repair movement aswell.
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that lol.
Came to say the same! If there’s anyone we can count on to make noise about right to repair, it’s Louis.
his monologue was very impactful at that hearing.
a little shop, and a massive youtube following
That’s how I got here
I'm not a farmer but I do have a riding lawnmower. I was thinking about getting a john deere when my cub cadet kicks the bucket..... but I refuse to support a company that doesn't take care of its customers or makes it difficult to do your own repairs.
Never thought I'd see the day where farmers are pirating software for tractors. Welcome to the future folks.
@Anatolyevitch Torop I guarantee that every farmer in the history of history has had to jury rig a piece of equipment
Right. Insane. Same thing is happening with sports cars and tune shops.
@GunBug even the law abiding ones can hack their tractor. As stated in the video, Congress modified the DMCA in 2015 to make it legal to hack farm equipment in order to make repairs.
Hondo, can’t farm space worms here
The only reason to pirate software is because the software producer is charging too dam much money!
Huge shout out to Louis Rossmann and Vice...an executive order has been passed...this is a step forward and huge win for the average repair guy and clients!
Trump was on this 3 yrs ago
@@mothertruckersparadise3260 And didn't push it Soooooooooo 🤷🏾♂️
@@martymcfly9342 sure did. Where were you?
@@mothertruckersparadise3260 No he did not. Do your research
@@martymcfly9342 I pay attention, I don't need research
How many politicians have said time and time again how important farmers are. Yet when it comes to actually supporting real farmers versus big companies... Well, we know who they pick.
Still, they (the politicians) expect to be fed BEFORE everyone else, those corrupt dirty rats!
Trump❤
Retired electrician who over 30 years ago ran into problems with larger equipment companies removing model #'s on IC chips and placing thier own numbers and thier prints never shown internal connections so we were forced to ship them a board where they would replace a $20 chip and charge us from $500 to 800 for what they claimed was a rebuilt board.
Wow. That’s still likely being done today.
John Deere.....we bite the hand that LITTERALLY FEEDS US
Best comment
Nah they'll just wait for the farmer to go bankrupt and buy up all their land on the cheap.
Couldn't have said it any better. Nailed it.
@@DuoTheGodOfDeath then they'll do what with it? They're manufacturers not farmers.
@@illeagle9560 not the manufacturers like John Deere, but other members of Big Ag like Tyson, Smithfield, Monsanto, etc. They drool over snatching up farms on the cheap
This is a hell of an opportunity for a small tractor manufacturer: they could make their tractor software open source like Linux, or Apache, and invite users to publish code they've written, and the winner gets their ideas incorporated into the next release. When you have more minds working on a problem, you improve the quality more rapidly.
Reduce the amount of software and isolate it from basic functions
@@GS-zc4sk every bit of software is important and needs to cooperate. If you use gps to plant seeds, you need to have some other place to store it, while way too take it to the harvesting machine, and it needs to read a bunch of different sensors and use a bunch of actuators to do all the work.
You can modularise for sure. But you need all bits to remain competitive.
There are no small manufacturers. Some of those machines cost 6 figures a piece. Not something you can produce in the small time.
They'd probably be better off just not using much software at all. Many of the farmers might even like that. I've even heard some older tractors sell more than the newer ones for this reason specifically.
@@urphakeandgey6308 i wouldn't say many. Up until this bs, it's allowed farmers to expand and gain yields. Deere just wants to capitalize off of maintenance. If they don't want to have open software, they need to drop service fees and decrease cost of loaner machines while down. It shouldn't cost 500 bucks just for a technician to get in their truck. Especially if they are forcing your hand to call them out.
Never thought I would hear “Hacking” “Farmers” and “Tractor” in the same sentence...
I'm disappointed, I thought I'd see a chainsaw or an axe or a grinder!
Hearing about "Farming" with "Tractors" is absolutely mind-blowing
lol the farmers can't hack .They just downloaded a pirated copy of the software like downloading a cracked version of a 300 dollar game
"pirate software from Russia" 🤣
Then you never heard abou 'Farming Simulator'
As a guy that has always done his own repairs on ALL my equipment and vehicles I’ve been say this FOR YEARS !!! They DONT want you to repair your OWN equipment !!!
Is this still a probleem
@@susanr1903it's only gotten more widespread and obnoxious since this video came out
Everyone should have the right to repair anything if they’re willing.
As she said "youve always had the right but the ability". Making hardware and softare available for atleast a period of time is the big thing.
Only if u own it
Well then, let's repair the Soviet Union!
To be fair, tractors have many restrictions to reduce pollution that increase maintenance costs with no gain.
Tell that to coin collectors
John Deere’s statement summarized: “No please don’t do this I won’t be able to profit off of people needing repairs anymore!”
They don’t want the government to regulate so they still have all the control and leverage. It really is disgusting what they’re doing to the farming industry.
Why anarcho capitalism isn’t true anarchism, because when the governments aren’t oppressing you it’s the corporations.
theyve also implicitly threatened to raise prices in retaliation with their warning of increased prices
CAT, Liebherr, Volvo, Komatsu, Construction, Mining, Deep Foundation etc etc theyre all being controlled the same, and from what i recently heard CAT is trying to extend their control on equipment repair even more, so basically anything minuscule happens and its only CAT who can touch it
CAT literally stated they’re doing so to increase their profits for 2021 & the coming years. And ensure people will keep coming back to them for just about everything.
This is horrible how can anyone pass anything like this. Big corporates thinking about more money and not lives. Disgusting
Ishaiah Guyton they can think about both if it harms their reputation too much
Ishaiah Guyton you don’t realise that companies like apple have a reputation to hold and this could ruin it.
this is monopoly in results of capitalism. John Deere making more money by exploiting the situation in favor for them not the masses
@@JD-lm8xq ^^^^^
+Ishaiah. Most of these farmers VOTED INTO OFFICE the very same people that supported these types of laws. What comes around,...
that’s facts, leave a farmall in a field for 50 years it will start
leave a deere in a field for a week your loading it on a trailer
When Volkswagen created the Beetle, it was kept in mind that every owner should be able to repair it with basic hand tools themselves. This was the most sold model car in the world ever and still holding this title. Volkswagen did not lose money by doing so but created customer’s fidelity
Today’s is all about profit to shareholders
Shame on you! 21st Century manufacturers
One person, one hour, one engine swap. For 4 people, the record is 1 minute 4 seconds.
Model t
Similar
but we are the shareholders and it indirectly helps us
Deepak k
If you have assets in the company you are a shareholder; if not then your just a consumer.
As an owner of many vw aircooled Beetles i can say that this is was the first thought... but as you looking to the beetles owner manuals year per year you will notice that on later years manuals start removing lot of staff how to maintenance / repair it by your self...
it was the period that discover that the real money in on repairs and maintenance .
they start using => if....... - please visit local vw distributor
The executives at John Deere are the kind of people who say you don't need farmers because you can get everything you want at the supermarket
Bro there are two get
like how Apple kills their phones when you replace the battery yourself.
It is corporate treason... these same corporations funded all sides of the wars... they created Nazi Germany and the USSR, North Korea communist China, Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc
No, say you don't need farmers cause we can control everything from a laptop! Hence Gill Baits buying up farmland!
@@squarenailco1747 who do you trust more to grow crops? the guys that have been doing it their whole lives, or some rich guy that made computers?
If you don't have the right to fix a piece of property you own, then you don't own it. "Right to Repair" affects us all, not just farmers.
I sincerely appreciate Vice shining a light on this issue.
Same could be said that we don't even own our house and land...we "rent" it from the county in the form of property tax.
@@JerryDLTN I see what you're saying, but those taxes are (ideally, at least) more about supporting various government services on different levels whereas Apple and other companies just don't like the thought of their profit margin being reduced
The name is a misnomer. Everyone has every right to repair their stuff. The manufacturer is just under no obligation to help you.
@@alphanerd7221 no that's a ridiculous statement. Some manufacturers want to monopolize the repair work for their products. When they do things like refuse to sell their customers genuine parts or even make them available at reasonable prices, or if they use proprietary software that can only be accessed with their equipment, then they effectively deny anyone but themselves the ability to do any repairs. If one chooses to "repair" the item (as you put it), then what happens is the item doesn't get fixed at all. It gets more broken.
@@jonarment1229 It's a factual statement and your flailing has done nothing to discredit it.
They’re doing this in all industries. As a Ford master tech, I’ve watched it with the cars. And people are fighting for the right to repair Apple phones. Coming from a family of farmers. It’s sickens me what they’re doing. What I’m afraid of is now that all our land GPS mapped. It will be a flip of a switch to replace the farmer. Time to change colors :-) quality food for kids and bring back a small farmer. As all these companies have done nothing but taken our family seed our land. Just for our government to give it to China. We were all proud of the family heirloom seed. And they robbed us. It’s time for Americans to start helping Americans growing quality food for each other. This mess is not sustainable.
Let's support small farmers and local food markets.
Everyday city people don't realize how important this is, but it affects the prices of so many necessary goods. Farmers' rights to repair should be taken just as seriously as people's right to have their IPhones be repaired easily.
Good on Vice for bringing the farmers' struggles into the limelight.
You'd be surprised how much the Farmer's RTR movement gets talked about in Open-source tech spaces pushing RTR on the software and consumer hardware side. Companies like iFixit and groups like the EFF have written briefs and testified for Farm-oriented bills, not just consumer oriented ones. Farmers are certainly the vanguard for it right now though.
Hopefully more seriously because I don't think the ability to repair phones gets taken seriously at all.
Hell almost all of the flagships phones these days are specially designed to not be worth repairing, and they stop supporting them with updates after 3-4 years, so even if the battery still works, you're going to have to upgrade if you don't want a phone increasingly vulnerable to exploits due to outdated software.
It doesn't affect the price. The price isn't determined by what the farmers are willing to sell their crop for, the price is determined by what the major crop purchasers are willing to pay.
@@orionsimerl6539 to an extent. If the farmers aren't making any money selling a certain crop though, they'll just stop growing it, in which case supply will drop and prices will increase. The price has to at least be enough to cover the farmers cost, otherwise they go out of business or switch to growing something that is profitable.
Supply and demand still applies even in a monopoly, nothing is perfectly inelastic, at some point something will give.
These useless dirtbag Lawyers in Congress. are to blame and the Big Corps off course.
This isn’t just for John Deere, this right to repair fight is for literally everything.
NoZaku Yea check out louis rossmann he is fighting Apple for his right to repair mac books
That's what companies like Apple are afraid of.
Case/Farmall/New Holland (AKA Fiat-CNH) are the same!
@@davidjose9808 they are owned by the same people follow the $
Yeah, from Cellphones, to laptops, to tractors. Anything that can be broken and fixed.
It’s not just John Deere that’s like that. Apple is doing the same thing with their phones. Even if you buy legitimate parts for your phone, you can’t install them because they’re all serialized. They just won’t work. In the iPhone 12, you can’t repair it anywhere but Apple. All the parts need software to be run or they just won’t work. Even something as simple as a battery and it’s only gonna get worse.
Ok
Yeah thats crazy I just watched that video 2
So actually a very proficient hacker can have a very lucrative career.
Been going on for decades! Just getting worse. This problem goes for ANTTHING repairable and electronic. You get "Proprietary" or just plain no. End of story.
Yes I agree with the home button on older phones, the cameras on the 12 and the screen, it’s like Tesla
I spoke to a dealer in Virginia about my mid 80s Kubota tractor, and they told me it was the last good generation of tractors that an owner was able to easily repair.
John Deere not allowing farmers to repair their own tractors is corporate greed at it's worst.
@chakur25 A farmer could loose an entire crop if they end up having to wait a week for a certified tech to come repair it.
@@Patchuchan It happens more than you think. My stepfather kept older equipment available for just that scenario. The neighbors and family members did the same. There was always some way to keep some of the equipment moving, albeit at a slower pace. At least until the repairs could be done.
Its a part of the let's have the tax payer pay for the infrastructure
And to use it
The companies often aren't expected to pay their share of taxes
And how often are expecting and getting various other incentives to be so good as to bring their business to an area
And then the we'll go somewhere else if you don't keep giving us deals and take jobs with us
And the jockeying things around so how many jobs are here ? How many out of country? How much of the money in the company going out of country
let us line itemize everything
And make every new generation of something need all new accessories
The hey shut and just be ok with whatever bits of trash we throw your way
Cause we (the companies and the people of high income) don't have to be accountable
That's what they're buying
The power to do whatever they want and even if caught for doing anything that is prosecutable
As long as the money flows To the right people
They might get a little slap (probably on the back)
Their sentences set aside
Free advertising
Protections put in place to protect THEM
And an excuse to tack more on to the cost of the product/service they "provide"
Because it's in their contract that legal fees are paid for by the company
And taking away from the elite shouldn't be but from
Farmers
Truck drivers
Waitresses
Cashiers
Daycare workers
Teachers
Cleaners
Stockers
Factory workers
Gas station workers
Fast food workers
Even
Nursing home
And
Hospital workers
It's a mess
It's about par for course at this point. It shouldn't be, but fucking people over on property rights is normal business.
Now, what's really fucked up is charging a seventy year old man more than one million dollars for his COVID treatment. What's really fucked up is my local hospital giving it's janitorial staff insurance that they do not accept.
Rules and Regulationswhat our government has become . Look at it now and the history this government has. Capitalist society . No longer what we thought we fought for or stand for.
Imagine telling a farmer 50 years ago that in 50 years they couldn’t even repair their own tractors because of how greedy the companies got
companies were always greedy. just look at what they used to do the unions back in a day. 50 years ago they didn't have the tech prevent repairs, otherwise they would do it
Imagine people seeing this and still believing that capitalism is some kind of flawless system that's only ruined by legislation.
They'd ask who'd they have to kill, truely
It's the greed and corruption of these large companies that keep me a Pirate!! Arrrr matey! I download all my enteratinment from movies, music, television shows, programs & games for past 12 years.......still goin!!
@@nonegiven2830Let's keep the left and right out of this issue. This affects every single one of us and if we don't come together on this issue and use this to score political points on each other things will never get better.
No country in the world currently is fully capitalist, socialist or communist anymore and that's how it should be. America gives subsidies to companies and bussinesses all the time, that's not capitalism but at the same time there's a free market. Us also has social security ffs. Same goes for european countries where there are more social welfare programs compared to the US but the market is still free and have capitalistic values. Scandinavian countries aren't socialist either, they might have more welfare programs but they aren't socialists. You can take the good from both and combine it.
Even China isn't totally communist in terms of business and economy, they have a relatively free market. So, stop being a child and have a bit of a nuanced view on this world we live in. It's not black and white.
As a person who enjoys videogame modding and making plugins for software. I have never felt such direct relation to the Farmers who have to deal with "Tractor DRM"
Thank you for ur modding service 🫡 playing hogwards with guns instead of wands is fun 😂
@@uchihaskates Hogworts Columbine edition 😳😳😳
@@mainhalo117 finally they get experience my American culture.
Profile pic checks out
"WOWIE ZOWIE THIS IS JUST LIKE MY VIDEO GAMES"
The Government does not want you to fix you Tractors 🚜 I have a been a mechanic for 45 years plus and I know what you guys are going through. Love you guys will always support you.💪🏻👍🏻🇨🇦🏁🚜
*buys tractor*
Company: "This comes with a 5 year warranty on any parts and repairs!"
*2 months later, doesn't turn on*
Company: "Please pay $1000 to transport it to us so we can tell you to buy a new part because we don't support the parts in this tractor anymore"
It's just as bad in the automotive industry. I had to junk out a good running 03 dodge neon because the transponder would not recognize the key. It put itself in (anti theft) mode and even the dealership said they didn't have the outdated software to reprogram the system.
tell me about it, i had to junk a dodge stratus and my e-350 powerstroke because i couldn't get parts. idiots at the dealer and parts stores always try to bullshit me and tell me all parts are the same for the powerstroke. according to dealer and parts store stratus doesn't have fuel filters, sadly i believe the manual listed 4 but there's at least five types.
In reality though, most warranties dont cover labor, just the part. So you still have to pay for a diagnosis and labor to replace the defective part
Reclusive Eagle I work in a dealership and it isn’t 1000 to transport. It’s way less
@@B70-l2d depends on circumstances. Distance, size of equipment etc. Your situation is not universal.
Time is ripe for open source machinery, where parts can be made by anyone who wants to make them, and fixed by anyone who wants to fix them.
combined with a community of 3d printing machines, i think theres something to this!
there is only one problem. imagine you have an idea, so you start a company and make that item. now a big company sees that and goes "thats mine now" a bigger company can push it harder and squish you out. thats why patents and copyright are a thing
@@pulsar9681 commons licence could be an option
@@pulsar9681 there is a way to be open source and patented.
I see a million and one people asking for open sourced technology, but only so many people willing to put the years required into making something professional level and then just giving the secrets away.
Im all for these guys being able to repair THEIR property, they paid for it they should be able to do what they want.
But the most amazing this in this video is the Nebraska representative advocating for the people. I mean wow. Its a sad day in America when someone is amazed that a representative is representing the people, and not some company, or rich person.
@Lando Calrizzi soon everything will be integrated into the internet. Every household appliance and home. None of it belongs to you because it all has an end user license and mandatory services.
What evil did she do on other issues though? Probably a slippery devil
Great memories relit when I saw the Farmall A in its red splendor. Like the presenter, I learned to drive on our farm at age 9 in Australia & had to stand up to reach the pedals.
Thank you for the presentation & wish you all well in your quest for knowledge which you have paid for but been blocked from receiving by monopoly.
One would think that spending 6 figures in a tractor would mean it doesn’t break so damn much
Ah, but you see that wouldn't make the company more money!
That's just capitalism at it's finest... Want something even better? Printer. See how well they last and go ahead and try to repair them. Tried to fix one once, it's maddeningly difficult.
Farm equipment is put through a lot of strain for long periods of time. Wires get pinched, bars get bent, things break. Only difference is with the old ones are incredibly easy to work on, so you can be back up and runningin a couple hours with three wrenches and the replacement part.
One is a fool lol
Nah, this isn't a car it's a working machine. These things are pushed to their limits often for 20 hours a day during planting seasons. John Deere equipment is good that's why people pay the price.
People are finally starting to see and understand how these big businesses are monopolizing entire industries. From WALMART and Home Depot to John Deere’s service department. Intentionally creating control for every aspect of their products and usage.
Don't forget to add Facebook, Twitter, Google etc...
Well said that's why the big box stores were allowed to work right through the pandemic.
while little stores had to close because people could get sick there. They're trying to destroy the middle class that with its entrepreneurialship.
Where do they want to go with all this? Think the 1300s when everybody was a surf when everybody owed their whole life and everything they had to the king and to the church,.. That's why the Protestant Reformation started was to free people from overregulation, from the tyranny of evil men both kings and popes. Kings and Popes working together to control everybody and take all their money. They want us to be slaves again.
My great-great-grandfather great great great... Left France in 1590 to go to Denmark to sell on 400 ships with with King William the red out of Denmark.... They sailed to England overthrew the king and the Catholics and established Protestants freedom for everyone again.... My third great grandfather fought with General Washington to give us freedom here... All they want now is to take away our freedom and have us all as surfs and slaves again...
The only thing they seek to do is to divide and conquer... You're white I'm black You're poor You're rich...
God help us all... I guess history has to repeat itself blood must be shed probably....
The ignorance of the elite and their arrogance promotes tyranny.... They should expect resistance.
@@jerryaulphgmail Amen to that brother.
I work at home depot so i might be brain washed and stupid but how is it a monopoly?
@@Kiinqx_ it's more of an oligopoly but they are because they have purchasing power, they can get stuff cheaper than anyone else because they can buy more than anyone else, this makes it hard for new entrants
John Deere should be ashamed of themselves. This is outrageous.
It not just JD. It's every Corporate entity that deals with digital devices.
Kaz, "Gunfight by The Moonlight," Miller yep, caterpillar started it, and in modern day America we have taken capitalism to its limits, morals or customers don’t matter only profits matter and anything that makes you more money is better...
@@robertw1871 let's delve into this deeper. I think it's the greed and selfishness in the hearts of men that's at the root. We can change the economic system, apply more oversight over corporations, institute laws and sanctions. But in the end it comes down to a lack of morals and empathy. And that demon of greed and lust will always find a way to feed itself
That's where they make their profit. If it wasn't for this then their products would cost a lot more.
This is not just John Deere. All engines have microprocessor controls. Even motorcycles.
John Deere a few years back claimed that they could provide parts for every thing that they had ever made. This appears to have fallen by the way.
I love how the official statement says that consumers should work together with manufacturers to come to a common ground rather than going to legislation. The fact of the matter is every time that has been attempted, the manufacturers usually laugh them out of the building.
Lol
full force of gov should go after these companys.
@@capthawkeye8010 they are but not really. Do you think car companys wanted all the pollution control measures? do you think car manufacturers wanted to increase every car by 1k plus for a catalytic converter? under the bonnet a third the junk is pollution control. The problem is idiot women are over half the voters and have no interest in fixing stuff, just throwing it in the river getting BOUGHT new and shiney.
@@nikitaw1982But then how will those poor defenseless giant corporations squeeze every last dime out of someone so they can pay their CEO a few thousand more per hour for doing absolutely nothing? :(
@@nikitaw1982 They just lobby and pay the government to go away.
Monopoly on repairs is "BS" everyone is dipping into a farmer's pocket all the way down to the seeds.... Monsanto
This is the reason why our grandparents who farmed sent their kids to trade school to become diesel mechanics to work on the equipment themselves
Yeah but now if you aren't a dealer franchise you can't even add a implement without dealer level software to program it.
@@southjerseysound7340 *Laughs in sketchy Ukrainian software*
Astro Kitty , that depends, I’ve had only an iPhone 5 and this iPhone SE, both extremely reliable phones, it wasn’t until I blew a fuse on my iPhone 5 that i replaced it since it would cost me more to buy equipment to replace that fuse. This iPhone SE has been reliable and I don’t plan on replacing it until it either breaks down, or I find an amazing deal on a phone that makes this one obsolete. Why would you want to replace an old toaster? Well you gotta take into consideration efficiency. Some things just consume too much energy, technology of the past isn’t worth maintaining sometimes
No...no its not the reason...it was money.
I learned how to fix these modern tractors, Including John Deeres by going to a trade school for diesel mechanics. Lol. You can still do that 100%
I support farmers. Farmers need to keep using and repairing old equipment and don’t buy new. Putting pressure on the manufacturers.
If you’re going to own heavy equipment you’re going to need to fix it when it breaks. WTF! After watching this I wouldn’t buy a John Deere lawn mower.
It’s not just Deere it’s all major at companies
Tesla does this too
Fortunately, the small stuff is still completely mechanical. We have a john deere zero point turn mower and there's not a single bit in it that is digital.
Just so you know it’s not just Deere pretty much every single farm equipment company is like this they are just the biggest. If anything John Deere is the best at making it easier for farmers to work on their own equipment throughout the 1900s Deere was one of the last companies to keep building 2 cylinder tractors after everyone else was building 4 cylinders they finally built 4 cylinders after the technology was improved they were the same way about 4 track tractors Case had been doing it since the 90’s but Deere steeped in with a much better design in 2016 when they were able to produce the best that Deere could produce
I'm a gen tech and I love their older engines before they went common rail computer control.
Other than that , they can go suck eggs.
The system isn't broken. It's working EXACTLY how they want it to.
Yup. WEF agenda in full force
Yup, good ole Marxism hard at work 😂
No Marxism makes junk cause nobody tries at work. Engineered obsolescence is a capitalistic invention so they can sell you something over and over again. Constant access to your free wallet. Nothin to do with Marxism
@@frjcde9392 marxism? tf, its america XD this looks more like the capitalist dream for industries. complete power/control on the product, even after they were bought!
Good ole Lobbyists allowing criminal activity to obscure reality.
Gee I sure do love lobbyists!
As and electronics technician, I wholly support this bill! I can find parts and schematics for radios that were built in the 1930's and before. Even Hifi stereos built in the 1970's would have a schematic diagram hiding inside, and repair components are readily available to get them in working condition. Repairing a 10 year old flat-panel TV however is next to impossible if it's a semiconductor that's failed. Just like the farmer, the chips are "dead" when they arrive and must be programmed. even then, there is a *LOT* of custom chips that were only made for the run of that particular model TV...yet, I can get a transistor to repair a 1970's RCA television very easily!
are you self taught?
Ever person with access to the pirated software, should share it to every other machine owner and mechanic in their district, and totally flood the market with it.
As a mechanic, going out into the field without tools required for a job, just doesn't cut it. The diagnostic software doesn't drive down to the local store to purchase the parts required, after the problem is identified.
I used to deliver John Deere parts to the dealerships and I got to see the invoices for the parts. A lot of those parts are being marked up 1000% or more. I'm sure John Deere isn't the only shady farm equipment company but they are pretty shady in how they conduct their business. One thing is for sure, if I ever have a need for a tractor, I won't be buying a John Deere.
I think farm products in general are being marked up for farmers. My dad can walk into the farm supply store and rack up a 100 dollar bill on just a few odds and ends.
Believe it or not. Most of auto companies rely on aftermarket sales as much as ew product... so yeah. Selling parts is where the money is.
You should see how bad they rake the fire service for equipment. Bend over
Yup I work in the turbine industry GE absolutely put you over a barrel for parts
I agree man it’s bs economics
Tesla is trying to be on this BS too. Basically microtransactions for the mechanically inclined.
And when you buy a used tesla, they want you to pay for all the auto pilot stuff even if the 1st own put it on his build sheet lol. What a joke.
micro? lol the company sets the prices and you bet it's going to be more than micro transactions
@@ChuckBeefOG That was actually resolved and he didn't have to pay
They want you to pay the big bucks to get oil changes done at the dealer, when you are completely capable of doing one on one of these cars. 🤔
It’s called business people.
We shouldn't just be fighting for our right to repair we should also be fighting against planned obsolesce
planned obsolesce is correct. in ten or twenty years deere will say they don't support the software for your 2022 new tractor and you will be stuck with a machine that could work but can't. they will force you to buy new tractors to support the manufacturers. we can still get parts for 8N fords or B model JDs but the computer controlled tractors and equipment have a limited life because of software dependence
And to think it all began with the humble light bulb... early light bulb manufacturers cut the life of the bulb in half to get more sales.
This is the biggest problem people haven’t figured out yet,, it affects many different areas not just farmers
@@rickl7024 Whatever makes $$$ for the tax slave colony of the "united" slaves of a$$holes.. good job, Uncle Scam and american mafia passing for a government!
@@rickl7024 I'm no farmer, but I'm a computer enthusiast. What do you think how bad it's getting to not be able to repair my phone, computer, because they want us to just buy a new one...
Never comply! Get the tools to fix everything you own. Why, because you can. No one fixes anything I own. My House, trucks, tractors, small engine, motorcycle, etc.
John Deere’s statement is funny. The people are turning to government to solve the problem that you created. If you didn’t want that, you should’ve cooperated when they asked nicely
Thought the same thing. Sure you wanted to work it out, John Deere. Suuuuurre.
Kind of similar to the statue debate of today. If you didn’t want them torn down you shouldn’t have ignored the petitions for removal.
I thought the same
"Customers, dealers and manufacturers should work together"
"They declined our request to visit Nebraska dealerships"
Actions speak louder than words.
Exactly. They didn't see beyond the spreadsheet that didn't show customer anger at being ripped off then ignored.
Follow up with buying a make that doesn't pull this kind of nasty. Deere is far from being the only producer of farm machinery.
@@the3idiots14 Oh yes... you had a cute little petition to have them removed... How many **LOCAL** signatures did you have? (Any from outside the area do **NOT** count) now compare that number that actually count, to the total population within that area... if it did not exceed 50% then you do **NOT** have the right to "tear them down".... If it worries you so much, put it on the local ballot to be voted upon. Otherwise, pound sand...
The fact that this is even an issue shows the malicious greed of big tech.
This has nothing to do with Big Tech. This is an issue with nothing-happening 'American' brands that are destroying their business in America with stupid business practices.
@@FIXTREME so, big tech
What it shows is how people get so easily tricked into buying shitty products. People still buy apple ffs, it looks good but they literally lie to your face.
@@karhammer ya is how thats works
It always comes down to money. If I were these farmers, I’d run the old equipment until it couldn’t be repaired anymore.
The last words are so true. I still see lots of 1950s, 60s, 70s tractors working. How many 1990s tractors and above are going to be working in 20 years?
I'm currently in the market for a used tractor, I was looking at a deere 3032 with loader & 4x4... but now idk.
Who makes an equivalent machine that I'll be able fix myself?
WE ARE STILL USING MY GRANDFATHER'S I.H. FARMALL SUPER A, AND MY DAD'S FORD JUBILEE AND ALL 4 OF HIS FORD 4OOO DIESELS. WE MAY HAVE TO WORK LONGER TO GET THE WORK DONE, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT GETS DONE, AND ANYTHING THAT DOES GO WRONG WITH OUR EQUIPMENT, BETWEEN MY 4 BROTHERS AND MYSELF, WE CAN FIX IT. WE CAN SEPARATE, DISASSEMBLE, AND REBUILD OUR SUPER A IN JUST UNDER 24 HOURS, GRANTED WE HAVE ALL OF THE NEW PARTS AND GASKETS.
E. P. Yes I suggest going on Fastline and looking up your hp range you’ll find a mother load of great tractors.
Same could be said about cars too
Zero.
Iron isnt the same grade and they are engineered to fail. Not to last.
I work for deere today they lost a lawsuit over this. You can now communicate with a tractor via a subscription and guess what? My dealer i work for pays that same subscription. You can buy an EDL (your brain in between your laptop, basically a cod inscription tool) over you local deere part counter. But im here to tell you unless your farming 5k acres its not worth it. Find a pirated version. Its just like modern day cars (whick i also worked on professionally). Your not talking to your mercedes the way you need to or a dodge for that matter with top of the line scan tool. Today its everywhere and yes i strongly disagree with not being able to obtain software. Its a way for someone with deep pockets to make em deeper. Its time we stand up and pass a law not just for deere but EVERYONE.
Repairing what you own should never be something anyone should have an objection to.
no cocksucker will ever tell me i cant work on my own stuff .
JUST LIKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THINGS ON YOUR OWN HOUSE THAT YOU PAY THE TAXES ON, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH STUPID GOV'T MORONS TELLING YOU YOU CAN'T DO THIS OR YOU CAN'T DO THAT....................YOU PAY THE TAXES AND DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE CHANGES ON YOUR OWN HOUSE............GOV'T IS TOO BIG,,,,,,,,,,,,,,GET RID OF IT..............
They're a bunch of dumbasses that want to tinker with complicated subsystems on these machines instead of paying a licensed mechanic. That's all this is about. John Deere didn't want to just email them the diagnostic software and told them to go to a professional. If they do something wrong they could completely break the combines or make the brakes not work or who knows what else could happen. This isn't like tightening a fan belt or filling up the tires. Other dumbasses in local government passed a stupid bill and now John Deere gave them a version of the software that reads the error codes but doesn't actually let you make changes to the software. I'm pretty sure that basically means you can't actually change software parameters. How could they allow that and not risk being held liable if somebody say gets run over by a combine? The farmers would probably blame John Deere for the brakes failing and forget to mention that they tinkered with them a lil bit earlier. At least this is the defense of the company. Are they right? I'd say probably but who knows. You can break the mechanicals too and John Deere wouldn't be liable in the case of an accident so why would software be any different.
This isn’t just tractors it’s new cars too
There is only one way to stop this moronic trend, DON'T BUY THEIR CARS! Once they find out how we really feel (showing opinions with our wallet not our muth!) they will drop that idea. Same thing happened with stupid talking cars idea, EVERYONE hated them, told them so, and wouldn't buy them. The talking cars disappeared in a matter of months. WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING NOW TO THIS IDEA - DON'T BUY "SEALED" CARS!
At least with a car I can go buy a scan tool from snapon or Mac and buy a scan tool a look for codes I can’t do that with my new holland
@@robertmaybeth3434 yeah but even then they can "force" you like the man in the video said about the gps, Deere said they dont support it anymore (or discontinued) and then youre screwed. its like with these electric cars, in Norway and Germany theyve started to ban all vehicles except for natural gas and electric cars
I can go to any car dealership (EXCEPT TESLA) and buy the parts I need to fix my car and truck. The problem with that is.....these vehicles are so complex and tight inside the engine area, etc... that I would need a ford computer program, scanners, etc (for example) to work on my ford f350 diesel one ton. Remember the good old days when you COULD actually do some major work on your car or truck without breaking the bank?
Im sure its everything we own now a days even credit cards.
This is the Vice we like to see: great reporting, nuanced opinions and very cool video work. Nice!
Its actually a re-upload of a Motherboard report from at least 2 years ago. Notice the watermark.
Edit: They mention it in the description :"This video was originally aired on Motherboard in 2018.
"
Yeah, this is way old.
that's cause this is from 2018
This comment is on almost every one of the recent videos on vice for some reason.
@@r7kelley553 If what that guy above said is correct about them reuploading someone else's story from a few years ago, maybe people are finding it's just a refreshing change from the current Vice standard stories promoting cucking or child drag queens.
*pulls out cartoon megaphone* “IF BUYING IS NOT OWNING PIRACY IS NOT THEFT
*Pulls out Electro-Sapper* You are dead not big surprise
This has effected everyone from phone, computer repair, to tractors. You don't own what you buy anymore
@Lovecraft until it doesn't... Hence having to make costly repairs only the dealer can fix. Often over priced even if it's a simple fix. Sure phones have planed obsolescence, but the manufacturers in both of these cases want if not expect you to return to them to increase their profits, be it by replacing the item or preforming maintenance only they can do
if there’s software in it
Yeah called property tax. Unfortunately!!
In that case, I should be able to go back to the place of purchase and exchange it for a new equipment whatever it is with no money out of pocket. Life Time Exchange Guarantee.
Then stop buying
John deere’s statement was funny as hell. Basically said “no please dont get the government involved because then we will actually have to sell you parts. Please just let us keep you on a leash and tell you to buy all new”
Well, Republicans (and Libertarians too, but they are a fringe political party) have made the word "regulation" a dirty word. If businesses had no regulation, we would have no clean water. No clean air. No overtime pay laws. No child labor laws. No holiday pay. No vacation pay. No 40 hour work week. No workplace safety practices. And many other things that we only have because government had to step in and mandate these things because it was cheaper for the corporation to not offer any of them without being compelled by law to do so.
I’m a Silicon Valley software developer. The security concern is total bs. We have encryption and authentication protocols that handle that. If this was a real issue of vulnerability it wouldn’t be a tractor company that was worried it would be stock brokers and the military
Even the military has lost the right to repair some of their equipment. Is that sad, or is that terrifying?
@@jasondrummond9451 Private companies leveraging power over the government’s military?
This is where Louis Rossmann comes in with his Right to Repair Bill. He is having the same struggles with Apple products
How do you reckon they found about this?
Gave up on Apple. Linux runs better on this Mac Mini.
And Tesla
yea those guys pushing for right to repair are getting stalled by lobbyists, kinda messed up tbh
He's in the background @8:48 :)
This is a problem.
We can not have greed collapsing our food chain and putting our legacy farmers out of business because a company refuses to stop screwing with programming
I think it’s sorted now
Unfortunately greed is what’s collapsing the farmers in India too.
@@roopkd especially in those what the Americans call them democrats states ?
@@snaky1107 It's not, the right to repair bill has still not passed.
It's not just farmers, everyone is affected by this, your phones can't be repaired by a third party. Same goes for video games, you buy a game then you pay more for secret character or skin etc. We own nothing completely anymore.
My response to JD's attitude towards their loyal customers was to look 'far&wide' for an acceptable alternative. I was surprised to find a much better designed&fabricated, versatile and stronger machine: I purchased a $50K Kubota SSV75PHFRC to replace my JD955. Nearly 3 years later, I still automatically smile every time I'm even near my Kubota. Such a wonderful machine!
Only way to make companies listen is with your wallet
All well and good but you have to remember. Americans love and i mean love american made products because "patriotism" so buying foreign is literally foreign and taboo.
Awesome. I laughed when that dirtbag said they'd stop selling their tractors in Nebraska for example. Good. Stop then. As if a less scummy company wouldn't immediately step up.
@@km6832 my sense of patriotism died when they took us into Afghanistan under bogus pretenses.
@@dougpfaff4763 you know that is a lie too
This is Vice at it's best. Giving a voice to the people is essential for democracy. You impartially and accurately conveyed the intent of real people, and provided real avenues for change.
“Nothing runs like a Deere.” Unless you need to fix it.
“Nothing runs like a Deere.” except farmers running away from Deere to other brands.
CTPadres no it’s “Nothing runs like a Honda”
It's an abbreviated slogan. The whole thing reads "Nothing runs like a Deere ....dealership repair bill"
They shouldn't pay for it, they should be able to fix it without having to pay basically a subscription to fix it. If they have to lets just not fix it and watch america's economy break
should have bought an International
I think the John Deere is severely damaging their brand and that this type of behavior will severely backfire on them. Farmers should not give up control of their expensive machines to programmers.
It's not just JohnDeere, try Apple, try Tesla, try Dyson.
@David David When you buy something, you have the rights to use, modify, and to repair that item as you wish for PRIVATE use.
@David David This isn't a complex problem. Give the farmers the tools to fix the tractors. The company deliberately makes the equipment inaccessible to fix unless to have the right software(to connect the sensors on the new part to the main computer)...which only John Deer has. That's called a monopoly, and those only cause problems. Also, you speak of programming being challenging. Well, you're dead wrong. Programming is bloody easy. Anyone is mentally capable of creating simple programs and rooting devices.
If I can buy an Intel CPU and install it on my PC without going to an Intel "dealership", then a farmer should be able to buy a John Deer part and install it on John Deer tractor. Also, we're talking about tractor hardware breaking and not replacing the whole bloody computer.
@David David I'm a programmer, but making diagnostic software for embedded hardware on items which should be otherwise user-serviceable is despicable. Even as a programmer I cannot reasonably do anything on my car besides read federally-mandated OBD2 codes. Even if you packet sniff CAN busses, the traffic is meaningless without the manufacturer releasing information on what the data means or if they actually make control module firmware available (which they don't). It is not a problem of user intellect but rather poor product design and business practices that should be illegal.
What other brand are they going to buy?
**IMPORTANT IF YOU LIVE IN HI or MA** - the state that pioneered the Automotive Right to Repair and the reason that we now have it across the country. It doesn't take a lot of people to make a big impact at the state level so please take a minute to help out! Links are at the bottom!
I can actually give specific context related to this issue and answer questions because I work with a non-profit that's a member of the Right to Repair coalition. There's some good news on multiple fronts (1) but I'm more familiar with MA than HI so I'll start with that.
MA currently has a Digital Right to Repair Bill that passed favorably out of its committee (2) and will be voted on in our legislature before the end of this summer. This covers products from computers/cell phones to the computer components of things like farm equipment and washing machines. Contact your state representatives (3) and voice your support for S.107 (4) / H.218 (5). It's odds of passing appear good but a final push is always important! Repair.org also made a template (6) for us that has examples of what to say when you get in touch, if you want it.
Here (7) is a video of the MA Digital RtR bill's Joint public hearing if you're curious (starts @31:50, and here's Part 2 (8)). Unfortunately the bills related to heavy duty vehicles themselves (their non-computer parts) and strengthening the current auto repair law got recommended for further study, which essentially means they're not going to pass this session. Although the automotive one did get enough signatures to be a Nov. 2020 ballot question in MA, so vote for it there! Here (9) is a link to the others' MA public hearing as well.
For Hawaii, they also introduced a similar Digital Right to Repair Bill which passed unanimously out of its committee (10). Its versions are here: House (11) and Senate (12). You can find your Hawaii State legislator here (13). Repair.org also made a template (14) for your state that has examples of what to say when you get in touch, if you want it. It's Senate hearing can be found here (15) (the 2/6/2020 video @30:00).
It'd be awesome if Vice could favorite/pin this comment for others to see. Thank you!
Links
1) uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/right-repair-surges-forward-multiple-fronts-start-2020
2) uspirg.org/news/usp/right-repair-wins-day-massachusetts-legislature-clears-committee
3) malegislature.gov/search/findmylegislator
4) malegislature.gov/Bills/191/S107
5) malegislature.gov/Bills/191/H218
6) states.repair.org/states/massachusetts
7) ua-cam.com/video/Orb8gT4itOA/v-deo.html
8) ua-cam.com/video/atdk1uS04D0/v-deo.html
9) malegislature.gov/Events/Hearings/Detail/3388
10) uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/hawaii-committee-votes-unanimously-advance-right-repair
11) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1884&year=2020
12) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2496&year=2020
13) www.capitol.hawaii.gov/findleg.aspx
14) states.repair.org/states/hawaii/
15) olelo.granicus.com/ViewSearchResults.php?view_id=46&types%5BClip%5D=on&types%5BAgendaItem%5D=on&types%5BCaption%5D=on&allwords=HB1884
All sub to Louis rossman. Fighting this have this bill
Well they didn’t
Awesome and very informative post Coves!!
Years ago I worked for a major VME- JCB- Bobcat dealership in Europe, and our techs always worked in the field, clients never had to bring machinery to the shop except for a major brake down (engine overhaul or transmission work). It even happened a few times that the customer had a shop and they managed to tear an engine apart without having to bring it down to the shop.
I have a 4100 JD, I live 2 mile from Fields John Deere in Florida. Every time I go in there they charge me 4 or 5 times what the part should really cost. A few years ago I had a front wheel bearing went out. (4 wheel drive) so I took off the front hub and took it to them , They charged me 450 dollars to rebuild that hub. And turns out later I discovered they only changed 1 bearing. then 2 years later the other side went out so I just just took the tractor to them . they charged me 1200 dollars to rebuild this side. I got my tractor back drove it for less than 3 min and it was making a very loud noise from that just rebuilt hub. So I took it a part myself, thinking if I take it back to them they will say another part went bad and charge me 1200 again. and what I found blew my mind. First I drained out the old used motor oil they put in my front differential. What should have been new 80 or 90 w gear oil. then I discovered the bearing that went bad they did NOT even put a bearing in and the axle was just flopping around inside tearing up the housing. and again I payed them to rebuild this hub they never replaced any bearing. and my last dealing with them my hydraulic cylinder started leaking. I have a 4100 so the cylinders are only 1 1/2 boar and they make these so you have to take them in for repair because they put a lock ring up inside the cylinder and it's very hard to get out. I let them rebuild the tilt cylinders 400 dollars. then time for the lift cylinders i was going to do it myself they wanted 200 dollars just for 2 o-ring kits , which is about 4 or 5 little O-Rings and a orange v grove ring . I went on line and found them for 18 dollars each. Green Parts.com. they have a phone number on the front page of web site . great customer service. a wheel bearing is 8 dollars. wheel seal 4 dollars. I will never go to John Deere ever again.
Im not a farmer and john deere you are just paying for the name.
Are there other options then? I mean, could one go for less high tech options or are the companies colluding to force consumers to go high tech?
Sounds A Typical American Made..... Like GM & Ford..... I mean the 21th Century Made....LOL
@Samuel Yes. They still produce Basic Old Classic Models I believe... We used to have a few in mid 80's. But the after sales support was not good. I don't blame them as we don't had many unit in our country. Anything you would like to Add? Pls
I got a drive belts from them they love to rip me off. My hustler is also a joke their name is what you are paying for my 2014 raptor sd my dad only had it for 6 years last year it started to break down starter blew i get it fix but my former school only fix what it can do. Eairer this year pto clutch magnet fell off. If you want to have things around go after 1970s and 1980s zero turn or garden mowers. Club mowers also very bad.
10:20 - "We will spitefully raise the price of our products if this law passes"
Damn. Thats a great way to say that haha
@@baddriversofthenorcalarea500 oh hey a literal corporate shill
It's actually unlikely. John Deere tried that in China, where existing laws aimed at protecting farmers and ensure food security (which they consider a part of national security) forbids locking out 3rd party repair/monopolizing of repair. The Chinese government's response was "feel free to price your products at whatever the market will bear, that's your right, but if you're selling in our country, you're following our laws. We made Tesla do it, we're making you do it." John Deere caved. They never managed to get a foothold for their general purpose tractors, due to competition from cheaper, less computerized and easier to repair domestic Chinese manufacturers. But they made fantastic profit from some niche markets such as cotton harvesters, due to relative lack of competition from Chinese manufacturers. Lack of repair monopoly didn't seem to hurt their profit. Bottom line: the government needs to grow a pair and stand up to the corporations. In the Chinese constitutions, one of the basic functions of the government was stated as protecting the weakest members of society from the strongest. In this case, it would be the individual farmers from corporations. America was an pre-industrialized agrarian society 250 years ago. If our founding fathers realized that corporations will one day dominate every aspect of our lives, they too would have enshrined the protection of the people from corporations in the constitution.
@@baddriversofthenorcalarea500 watch before you comment fool, you had/have no context
Sure, but they do that at their own peril. Raising prices arbitrarily creates profit margin, which incentivizes competition to the extent of that margin. It would just be shooting themselves in the foot.
Hacking a tractor is something I never thought I would see
They are really high tech! 👊🏻💥👊🏻
Yeah, but can it run Doom?
@@hungrybartender6388 prob
With software from Eastern Europe.
Ya 🤦
Its insane we are living in an age where we don’t have rights to the property we purchased
And this is why my grandfather, a mechanic for over 40yrs hates John Deere. They consistently try, and succeed in screwing over their customers
Welcome to beautiful American capitalism
@@elyvaliente9511 It's not the capitalism that's flawed. It's John Deere. The bad intentions of JD execs would exist no matter what economic system were in place.
@@PeterLawton that’s just not true. They lobby the government so they’re allowed to monopolize fixing tractors. Capitalism allows Jon Deere to be as fucked up to their clients as they want.
@@elyvaliente9511 my statement is that their intentions would be the same under any system. If another system prevents actions we are currently seeing, those same bad intentions will just find another way to be bad. And you disagree with that.
@@PeterLawton I’m not saying their intentions would be any different. A scumbag is a scumbag wether socialist communist or capitalist. But under capitalism whoever has the most money writes the rules. These farmers are technically criminals because they’re going against the company rules. But we don’t see them that way because John Deere are the real bad guys. They’re the bad guys because they can pay off a capitalist system that allows them.
Louis Rossman, just casually in the background of the hearing. That man needs more credit for what he does for the Right to Repair Movement. @ 8:50 in the video
That’s our Louis!!!
I totally missed him the first time around! 👍
yess
Facts
Louis Rossman for president.
Damn, I'm gonna sell all my John Deer tractors in Farming Simulator now. Seriously though, what a shameful way to treat hard working farmers.
That'll teach em!!!
FS19 also brought me here lol
Sadly if this is not stopped then all the tractor companies will do it
I do t think it’s just Deere. And Deere dealerships have always been the nicest people to work with
Yeah buy CNH
For this reason I only use my 1951 John Deer tractor and it does the job. Thanks.
This is why older equipment is so coveted. I still see tractors from the 30's in use today
My grampa" had a John Deere from the 1930's and never broke down.
And also how insanely expensive the new tractors are!
Got a 1969 Massey, still runs like a top and use it multiple times a week
basically all we use is old tractors, i think the newest tractor we have is from the early 80s. We have Allis Chalmers WC tractors from almost before World War II we use
A older farm that we used to trade labor and equipment was always saying cheap HP was the older tractors. That was in the 80s 90s buying used big tractors at auction cheap because most people at the auction wanted the weekend farmers tractors
It is very important to show up to these hearings and provide your testimony. Don't let the lobbyists provide their BS opposition unchallenged.
Yes, they are getting their palms greased, pardon the pun. Politicians are usually in it for the power and/or money
As a technician in a totally different area i totally support the right to repair... Its just common sense
You can reach out to Louis Rossmann about your field.
the repair is what makes John deer their money, alot of the time they sell the machine at cost or below cost, because they know the person has no choice to purchase the parts or get the tools repaired by them
@OldGreg1776 Framework laptop, isn't giving out schematics to anyone, but electronic repair shops, it's a reasonable comp
@OldGreg1776 yes!
same
Just replace the words John Deere with Apple, and tractor with iphone
iPhone is not 250k+
WoW now I’m imagining a farmer riding an iPhone...
@@alexm566 not yet, anyway
Apple got all their hard work stolen by China, Biden made a fortune betraying America in this trade war. Trump tried unsuccessfully to stop them and so they blamed him and accused him of starting a trade war with China. That's exactly why.
Comparing the price of a single phone to a tractor is a nonsensical comparison that shows a complete lack of understanding of the topic.
Air conditioning systems like Trane have services that also restrict repair without paying again and again. This practice is unfortunately embedded in several industries. John Deere, Tesla, Apple, Trane and their are many more.
@David David It costed me US$170 to replace my Samsung Galaxy screen and I did the replacement myself. You have to disassemble the whole thing and remove almost every piece.
@David David Hahahaha there wasn't a single crack on the LCD; It was a hardware problem! What's your next advice? 🤣🤣🤣
You guys are being treated like morons, nothing but abuse.
@@YoLo-ex6rk 😎👍
Sad to see our US tech companies forgetting where their food comes from.
Abroad most likely, aka places probably using old tractors with no electronics
grocery ofc
Bill Gates owns the most farmland in the US now, I believe. And if that isn't a scary thought.
From brazil and the 3rd world
When I stopped being able to change my oil or do a diagnostic without a special tool or program, I started leaning on my older vehicles. I love being able to rebuild the engine myself.
Let's go backwards a little. Keep the power for us hard working Americans
@@johngrepo9976 We don't have to go backwards to solve this problem. We just need to take back control of our once representative government from corporate lobbyists and interest groups. The government isn't the bad guy here, its the corporations that now own and install bureaucrats who serve them, not us. Get the money out of politics and you'll solve a lot of these problems. The rest is making your average American schlub care enough about politics to get involved and at the very least vote.
Those complex pieces of equipment make the same plot of land several times more productive and profitable than they were even 15 years ago, just like modern cars are safer and more reliable than ever. Nobody actually wants to go back to a time where large commercial engines had points and carburetors instead of modern digital control systems that are capable of telling you exactly what's gone wrong with them down to the circuit or fuse. Nobody wants to go back to a time before seat belts and advanced SRS. Just give us access to the products we pay for at a reasonable price.
Amen. I stopped working on vehicles made after the late 70’s.
You all act like learning new skills is a bad thing. I do this for a living and it isn't any harder to fix a modern car. Rebuilding an engine has been the same process for forever. You can buy factory diagnostic equipment for automobiles, or if youre a real broke ass, make friends with someone who works at a shop and bum scans and resets off of them.
@@joshbarth9469 Its easier to work on the electronic parts. Or atleast it is in my opinion. Good thing the open sourced software variant is protected by every aspect of the government
Why only talk about John Deere ? Every industrial machine with a computer is dealer only. I repair forklifts and I cannot work on anything over 2005
Yeah I'd say it's the same for any modern large machines. Heck if my electric wheelchair has a problem the company comes out & links to it via software on a phone I don't have acsess to. Then if that can't find the problem, of it detects a problem they can't fix they take my wheelchair away & charge me a tonne, being very vague & secretive about what the actual problem was & how they actually fixed it.
People are hacking their own wheelchairs & I'm looking into it (like removing the speed limiter) but as soon as I mess with it my warranty is void. Finding wheelchair insurance was hard enough, hacking my wheelchair would limit my options more or hike up the cost I can barely afford anyway. If I knew enough, companies weren't so secretive & I had acsess to the software & whatever secret tech they keep in their garage, I could save a tonne of money fixing my chair myself.
Parts is another huge problem, no company sell direct to users, they all have to go through a dealer, often a pushy dealer trying to make a profit. I'm trying to find out how much a new back would cost & it's impossible to find out online, they all bounce me to to sellers or offer to visit for am "assessment" aka sales patter. I've asessed my own needs, found suitable solutiins & want to know the price of specific products you make!
If I could afford to I'd buy a second wheelchair, buy second hand parts from eBay & practice stuff myself but again the softwear & whatever tech they keep hidden limits private individual options.
Caterpillar, Cummins, and John Deere are the worst
Same with teslas
@@justinmartin8887 really didnt know Cummins was one of the bad guys to
I am in trucking industry, its the same here, if you have an issue that needs soft diagnostics and other stuff that is a little more complicated than changing a bulb, than only Freightliner, Detroit, Volvo, Cummins, are the ones who can work on their stuff, they usually may get their soft and training after a huge paywall that other mechanics can't have access to due to extreme pricing and constant updates...