Cognitive Functions - Fe vs Fi
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- Опубліковано 26 січ 2022
- #introvertedfeeling #extravertedfeeling #16types
Cognitive functions playlist: • Cognitive Functions
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If you have any observations and thoughts about the cognitive functions and how to understand/explain them then definitely let me know down below in the comments! ~ Nathan
Good points. I would add that final result is significantly impacted by other (clashing) functions. High Ti low Fe has such a clash, where Ti is methodologically individualistic, while Fe craves harmony. I suppose this brings slightly different flavor of individualism than Fi, but generally can cover for that.
I had the privilege to see low Fe and low Fi in comparison in me (INTP) and my brother (INTJ) growing up.
Hi, Nathan.
I wanted to know if Fi is empathy or sympathy. And the same for Fe.
I think you do an excellent job of explaining these cognitive function differences.
You’re the best!
I can’t wait for the Se vs Si video that’s the two I understand the least so that will be epic
Recently, I was studying for a chemistry exam and, in my brain, I read Fe (Iron) as extroverted feeling. That's when I knew I was in way too deep into MBTI
I was studying for a biology and geology exam and i read Fe Ni (iron and nickel) as extroverted feeling and introverted intuition
2 in a row cannot be a coincidence
When extroverted feeling in hemoglobin oxidises in the presence of Oxigen it allowes for it transportation in the body
Ne by any chance? 🤔
You should've thought of Si as silicone
@@YouilAushana Actually all the cognitive functions have element equivalents except Fi. As a chemistry student, I would know (Fe - Iron, Te - Tellurium, Ti - Titanium, Ne - Neon, Ni - Nickel, Se - Selenium, Si - Silicon)
"Let's all do each other... wait." LOL
Comprehensive and unbiased, as always. Well done. Even as a high Fe-user, it bugs me when people say Fi users are selfish or not empathetic. Fi users can be just as empathetic and selfless as Fe users, depending on their environment and health, just like any other type. Just because the way they showcase that looks and feels different than Fe doesn't negate their strong ability to get along with people. Fe users can learn from Fi users, as can Fi users learn from Fe users.
Totally agree with this. I work with someone who's a high Fe user and I tell them that they are selfish in their selflessness 😂
i agree
@@kristymakasziw506 My son is a dominatn Fi user and I always feel that his selflessness is selfishly motivated. Fascinating.
I'm an ENTP with nearly identical Fe(1087) and Fi(1075) functions and I completely agree with this view. I'm able to switch between the two and see the importance of both, as well as how they could learn from each other - this has developed a sort of middle path thinking for me where I'm able to uplift others while treading my own individualistic path, accounting for any faults in either my selfish or equally selfless decisions depending on the case.
I assume this is the end-goal for every person, to have these values and functions align eventually or to learn how to make up for their initial drawbacks.
@@nailwind wait ENTP have Fi trickster, that's their weakest function. Do you actually know what you are feeling?
I’m ISFJ (aux Fe) and married to ENFP (aux Fi). While I already knew much of this, I think the video is a great tool to explain the differences in our feeling functions. He has always been fiercely individualistic, not afraid to stand up for his beliefs, and doesn’t understand my impulse to blend in, not be noticed, or why I care so much about what everyone else thinks. I can mirror the energies of those around me, while he is very much what-you-see-is-what-you-get. I love the ways that we challenge and complement each other.
He. Is. The. BEST!
Ok, it's actually difficult to order into lists, for me. I'm ENTP
You care more about how other people feel not what they think. Personality types with Te in their top four cognitive functions care about what other people think. ISFJs have Ti in their top four cognitive functions so that means you care more about what you think about something. You have strong Fe so you as an ISFJ can more about what other people feel.
@@sandradibiaso7316 No, it's not that simple. Feelers do *think* a lot about emotional and human matters, and a lot of Fe users do care about what others think of them as a person - way more than Fi types, who have Te, typically do. Te is not about people's opinions of each other, it's about external order and structure and externally verified information and logic.
I love the what-you-see-is-what-you-get from enfps! I have such difficulty with this, being that I prefer the exact opposite functions
@@sandradibiaso7316 Thank you for explaining my personality to me. Obviously, you are the expert in that, not me. 🙄
As has been said, Fe cares about what others think about them a great deal. I want to blend in with the crowd because I’m hyper aware of what others are thinking about me. Yes, I also care about how they feel and the harmony of the group, but what they’re thinking is part of that. I tend to make decisions based on what I think others’ opinions and emotions.
Te is more about getting things done, finding what works for the majority of the group, and being productive. They’re not terribly interested in what’s going on in others’ heads, only in the group working cohesively.
From Fe users I learned to validate other's feelings and understand the importance of teamwork.
From Fi users, I learned to validate my own feelings and understand the importance of inner drive
Idk if any other Fi doms relate but whenever I do something or act “selfless” I always feel like I secretly have a selfish motive
I mean, as Nathan mentioned in the video, pretty much everyone's motivations could be construed as 'selfish' on some level. Fi-doms tend to be hyperaware of their internal motivations and prone to questioning their purity, but it doesn't mean your motivations are fundamentally very different than those of others acting 'selflessly'.
I don't think fi is selfish,we didn't getting enfp or infp or fi user who is kind and good and caring
@@user-rm1rf4zw6s rephrase that pls
"Let's all do each other" LMFAO
"Fi is more 'you do you, and I'll do me,'
Whereas Fe is more 'let's all do eachother...' WAIT!"
🤣
Something I noticed, is that there can be a massive difference in "flavor" of Fe depending on the other functions. Fe Si users their awareness is often on cultural "etiquette"... or "are we following the established social / cultural rules right now" (Si) in interactions and lifestyle. Whereas Fe Se users are more likely to embody and express what it's like to be a culturally "fun" / "exciting" person to be around through their physicality and presence. For this reason they can come across more edgy and assertive and can seem like they are breaking "rules" which seems contradictory... but once you realize these are sort of Se social values and a good chunk of the population loves that enthusiasm and physicality, it makes sense. They are bringing "life" to the party.
Yes this is the case with all of the other functions as well.
Be it Ti in INTP or ISTP
Te in ENTJ or ESTJ
Or Fi in INFP or ISFP
Very true!
yes, also applies to Fe with Ni and Ne. Ni Fe users like to read people and guide them to be better prepared for the future. your idea of Fe Se sounds more like Fe Ne to correct you, as Fe Ne users like to keep it lighthearted, fun and playful, as Ne is a playful function about exploring possibilities. Fe Se users tend to be competitive and form comraderies for example football players. Fe Ne users could be debaters, as they like exploring possibilities with people.
Fe Si - Manners
Fe Ni- Guidance
Fe Se- Competitiveness
Fe Ne- Playfulness
FJ and TP types have Fe and can often been observed behaving in these ways.
XNFJ and XSTPs are guiding and competitive at different times. XSFJs and XNTPs are mannered and playful at different times
Such a great observation! I have disproportionate number of INFJ friends, and it does sometimes occur to me that they care more about appearing to conform than actually conforming, but I hadn't made the connection to the cognitive functions yet.
@@GetYossedLol Don't forget the orientation of those functions makes a big difference too. Depending on which is on top and where in the stack
"Fe - Let's do each others" lol
LOL!!
😏🤫
👵
I very much agree. As an Fi user, I wish to do what makes me happy, but also hope for others that they can do the same. And as long as it doesn't clash with my core values, I am very willing to help them achieve that!
It takes you under ten or even five minutes to convey what takes others hours. In that respect, you are much better than C S Joseph.
I liked the empathy analogy. I see high Fe users as a different type of empathy, almost one to help. Being an ENFP, my Fi turns around to help them feel validated without a solution. Both are equally good in their own respects.
As an INFP, sometimes I provide ideas for possible solutions, but I don't usually like to act like I have The Solution. In the end, it's always up to the person to decide the best course of action for themselves.
That's beautiful 🌻🌼🌺
Fi is more empathetic while Fe is more sympathetic
Fe wants to find the source of emotion (Fi), analyze it (Ti) and either submit to it or manipulate it.
Fi wants to give the emotion to the seeker of emotions (Fe) and use it as a tool spread it's beliefs and philosophy (Te)
This is interesting, especially the point about Ti, I hadn’t thought about it that way before ~ Nathan
very well said 👏
There's nothing more satisfying than having a deeper understanding of myself and in turn, being able to empathize with everyone, whilst also being able to establish firm boundaries. I often think there's nobody on this planet I couldn't empathize with after investigating their story and filtering through my Fi lens. I love high Fe users but my heart breaks for them when nobody gives them the recognition they deserve.
I've watched a lot of different MBTI channels, and I've recently come up with This distinction between introverted and Extraverted functions:
Extraverted functions exist and are activated "in the moment", while Introverted functions are based on your past and your own "lens".
Or maybe Extraverted functions are broad but shallow snapshots of the present, while Introverted functions are deep wells of knowledge gathered over time, stretching more into the past and future.
I know people say that Se is the function that is the most "in the moment", but I experience Fe in that way too (I'm INFJ).
Fe directly reacting to something that is happening right now; even I'm not really sad at all, I can see someone else crying and become overwhelmed with "their" sadness and have tears welling up before I even really know why. It doesn't matter if the person is a monster who deserves no sympathy, if emotions are being shown, Fe is going to pick up on it. (The dark downside of Fe).
I feel like Fi would see someone crying and then search through past experiences of being sad, then comparing them to This moment, try to understand why the person is sad, and feel that way themselves. (Though I suck at Fi, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Both functions have/are Empathy, but Fe Empathy is more "synchronous" with the outside world and what's happening in this current moment, whille Fi is more introspective and isn't As synchronous, since it needs more of that "comparison".
Te doesn't really function without outside stimulus and I'd say it's the same with Ne. They feed off the ideas in the current Moment, and then use their introverted functions to interpret and store what just happened.
I got this idea from Joyce Meng and her Type Talks, and maybe this kind of thinking is obvious to many people, it's only recently I've picked it up.
Just wanted to add, that as an Fi user, whilst initially I may need quite a bit of time to figure out my thoughts/feelings and have done the leg work, I can quickly access that emotion/thought again. Example being, I can watch something emotional and very quickly I go from 'omg, that's so sad', to tears forming, (and this is like dipping into my well of emotions without actually going through anythign personally). That fi IS directly reacting to the environment in that moment, but it could linger for quite a while thereafter especially if I need to process information/emotion mostly on my own, without requiring any need for sharing it.
I see fi as a structural backbone for values, rather than just an emotional well.
Ne I feel is a very neutral function, just simply at the beck and call of Fi or Te in some cases (for enfp). I personally feel frustrated with Te, as I feel I can control it less, and feel like I am more at the mercy of the crowd. But I love it all nonetheless!
@@itsmeraz3008 Ok, thanks for your input!
Yeah, I think there's a certain "inertia" to the introverted functions as well.
I've found that my Fe can go from sad to happy almost instantly because I walked past someone sad and then someone happy. 😅
Maybe not That extreme, but I think being "changeable" and flexible because the situation changed is easier for the extraverted functions.
Thanks again for you information about Fi! 😁
@@JokerCrowe ah that's so interesting, I find it more difficult to just change my emotions. Yeah I can do all the right actions to portray to others, although it's difficult as I just don't want to let others be aware of it until I have figured it all out and then I may choose to share lol. But I just find my sad or deep emotions so so private that I struggle to just switch off from them. So yeah I can go from neutral to very happy pretty easily, but not so much if it's coming from a 'deep' place.
Whereas if I compare it to te, it feels surface level in comparison. So yeah I'd say there's a difference with the extraverted and introverted functions.
@@EresirThe1st
Thanks for your reply and input. 😊
Okay, that's good to know.
However, I'm wondering if your planning ahead has to with Te or your dominant Ni?
I'm asking because I'm always trying to predict where conflicts might arise between people before they've happened, and stop any potential "fires" by leading the people away from conflict. That's Fe sure, but it's Fe feeding Off Ni.
The intuition does the planning and the "flavour" of planning depends on the extraverted functions.
I think, for example, that an ESTJ might have a very different relationship with their Te than an INTJ.
But again, thanks for your input, I'm not claiming to be an expert at this, so it's entirely possible I'm completely off track here. 😅
ESFP-INTP is one of the more difficult combos. Not much there in the cognitive functions to help each other relate to each other. I had an ESFP friend who misunderstood some of my actions and cut me off. I had no idea what I did until I emailed her 8 months later and she let me know her perspective which was a completely different reality than mine.
I am an older ISFP that’s learning the value of paying attention to group norms. I am learning how to fit in a little better.
I love your nuanced perspective. It seems both Fe and Fi eventually get the best of both worlds, but their starting point is on opposite ends of the spectrum.
This was honestly so helpful. I've been trying for SO LONG to find out what my type is and I could never grasp some of the concepts because no one explained it in a more practical way but now I'm 100% sure I use Fi and this means I now have to go on yet another identity crisis phase
If you think you're a high Fi type then that narrows things down significantly! If you haven't already then it might be a good move to join the LoveWho Discord server. You'll be able to interact with lots of people who already know their type and know lots about typology in general! ~ Nathan
i like this explanation! i noticed that Fe is often viewed as better at understanding emotions and needs of other people although I've met some high fe users who misread me and assumed wrong things just because i don't express my emotions in a way they'd expect
that's just something i've noticed that happened to me a couple of times
I'm an infp
as an Fe user i personaly believe Fi users are way better at understanding other people's emotions and relating to others on an emotional level . they might not spend as much time " reading " others feelings but by reflecting on their own feelings they would know better what exactly another person is feeling if they want to . Fe users are more focused on the harmony of their immediate surrounding and that people are having a good interaction rather than what exactly those peoles are feeling
Yeah I feel that. If you don't feel or respond the same way as the common concensus then you fall through the cracks as the Fe user can't hear what you feel, they hear what most people feel and go off that. It can lead to actions where an Fe user does something that an individual receives poorly because rather than knowing the individual better they based it off of their most people, which is very different
I’m an INFP and I keep forgetting that my family doesn’t understand what’s going on in my head, even when it seems so obvious what I’m feeling.
However, my son is an INFJ and he does know exactly what I’m thinking or feeling without me saying anything. I have to be careful because he has learned how to manipulate my emotions to get what he wants.
Although I don’t use Fe dominantly, I still try to read the emotions of those around me. But I use that “radar” to compare the actions of others to my current mood and decide if I want to interact with them or not. I’m not sure if I’m explaining that well enough.
Sou INFP também e me sinto do mesmo jeito, com base nas minhas experiências eu consigo detetar o que os outros estão sentindo. O difícil é quando acontece de alguém estar sentindo algo que eu nunca senti (já que só tenho 15 anos)
❤
Ok, this was a very good explanation of a distinction that is all too easy to butcher.
Very true about the trajectories of these types. Well-developed high Fi users do tend to employ a fair bit of Fe and vice versa. As an INFP, I've definitely developed some Fe skills with age and in some ways become better able to compromise with the group/society, it was just a matter of priority as far as what I wanted to focus on developing first and foremost. I've likewise seen high Fe users who were once overly self-sacrificing, conformist, or held back by worries about what other people think eventually get more in touch with their own inner compass and individuality.
One minor quibble is with the idea that Fe considers a lot of different perspectives and Fi doesn't, as this is something that NFPs in particular tend to do a lot by nature. However, we tend to be more focused on individual perspectives, e.g., thinking about what someone else's individual experience of life is like, as well as big-picture perspectives on life and humanity, rather than those of 'the group' or social dynamics or norms. And we're not usually looking too much for external input on who we are or how we should live. That doesn't mean we're not interested in others' perspectives on stuff more generally, and most of us certainly think about other people's feelings. It's just like, everybody stay out of everybody's individuality and self-determination. Everybody's life is their own work of art that they get to make their own way, and nobody gets to mess with that.
I definetely agree with Fi users being able to see many perspectives (particularly NPs) but not feeling they need to apply them or accommodate them the same way Fe users tend to do.
@@belen_hummus the main way we apply or accommodate is through the ne tool. We like to explain things through our collective archive of random data and help ppl become self aware to help themselves. And the way we Accomplish that often means accommodating our language and creating relatable metaphors to match where our recipients are at. Speaking from an infps perspective.
@@belen_hummus There's really a lot of ways our perspective-taking can be applied, though it's true that in many cases we're content to just have the understanding of different perspectives and not do too much with it due to our relatively hands-off-each-other approach to life.
We can often act as peacemakers or mediators, which is obviously a situation where seeing different people's perspectives is useful.
There's a lot of NFP counselors, psychologists, and the like, and it comes in handy there - and really in any situation where you're working with people.
There's a lot of NFP writers, actors, and the like; being able to get inside the minds of different people is obviously helpful there.
Many NFPs are political, and many have relatively collectivistic views there that try to take everyone into account.
We tend to be pretty egalitarian and averse to strong hierarchies in general because we think all individuals' feelings and viewpoints are important, including children and animals and people in 'subordinate' positions, and have a distaste for people dominating or overpowering others.
And then there's simply being understanding and nonjudgmental toward people in our lives, which can be an impactful thing in and of itself.
@@multitudesreplyaccount3163 yeah, that is true
Yup definitely feel that, understanding the individuals perspective and how things affect the world/everyone, not just the group.
As an ENTP i spend near zero time thinking about how I feel about things. Others may have favorite colors, but I never had one. I care how others feel unless they are unreasonable, but I just want to have fun thinking.
How much work does it take for you to figure out how you feel about something?
I am ENTP and I relate completely with this statement.
I will sometimes eat an entire meal and afterwards realize that it tasted horrible. I have even eaten several bites of spoiled food before realizing that the food was spoiled. I have to put my consciousness on my feelings or sensations in order to feel them. I feel fairly readily (at most a minute of reflection) when I actually pay attention. I usually find what I feel to be boring relative to learning something new or experiencing something new. However, I got into mindfulness practices and I can take great delight in feelings and sensations at times - I turned it into a discovery of something new to experience and learn about. Hope that makes sense.
As an INTJ that moved from Techie to Agile Coach, I had to learn many of those Fe type things, team dynamics, read a room, conflict resolution that I had happily ignored. I can’t do it directly like an Fe user, I still get there the Fi way, I build a model in my head, understand what I would want/need in their shoes, and do that. My motivation is a desire for effectiveness more than it is harmony. Fi still rules when it gets tough, principles over harmony,
As someone who is older your description of how we change as we age seems to be very accurate.
5:45 this breakdown is definitely most applicable to Fi or Fe doms. As someone with Fi aux, I haven’t felt as strongly here as, let’s say, my INFP brother or my ESFJ mother-in-law
@Xiaofeng Qiu right, I considered that it might be more of a thing for people with it lower, too. I dunno… this just wasn’t much of an issue for me growing up 🤷♂️
Can we says... you are definitely a mastermind, a superior soul ?
Thank for your great job once more.
It make me think...
I have a theory (again) : The development of our functions and our improvement, does not come with time, but with experiences.
fi users tend to keep their emotions to themselves; This is why it's hard for others to see their empathy.
Brilliant!
Nathan, you and C S Joseph are the best! You are very different from others.
ENFP here. This video has confirmed my Fi usage and my need to go my own way instead of only doing what others tell me to do.
When I was a kid, I used to want to fit in A HELL OF A LOT and really tried my best, but it resulted in being rejected and mocked. After being bullied in the process, I started developing a self-protection mechanism that involved refusing to adapt to other people standards and controlling behaviors. Basically, I became a contradiction, because I naturally kept in some toxic ways my “Fe ways”, while developing some sort of “Fi-like ways” to protect myself from danger, pain and trauma. The interesting part of this conversation is that it needs to be contextualized in various situations of a person’s life - what’s the priority in that specific situation and why, how it’s determined.
Yeah, I can relate to this a lot except the fact that I'm still doing this. The function that gets me confused the most as a definitely sure yet not very sure INFJ (Ni - Fe - Ti - Se) is auxiliary Fe, namely because of its opposite function (Fi) that's easy to misinterpret if you're just looking at the rough outline/description of its common/misunderstood characteristics when being compared to Fe. I do relate a lot with Ti complementing Fe (I have a strong Ti; it balances my Fe well) compared to Te complementing Fi, but I'm still prone to question these kind of stuff. This often happens when I'm in a bad mood, which makes me more "selfish" when it comes to the way I treat others around or close to me (the way I misunderstood Fi for being "generally selfish, self oriented"). That's why I often find myself looking for these type of videos on UA-cam, and this video gives a good insight I can take to clear up my confusion (and frustration lol).
What a FANTASTIC distinctive description between these two functions. thank you Nathan.
Really looking forward to the video about each type's manifestation in childhood. It would help with typing a lot.
As an INTP, I have inferior Fe. But at times, I do question whether I'm an INFP instead given that whilst I am pretty easy going and quite passive (especially earlier on in life), I do believe that people should try to be more authentic to themselves and learn to embrace other people regardless of their differences. Not sure whether that is an Fi thing. But I do think it just makes logical sense to do so as opposed to having a relationship or whatever to be built upon fakeness. You can disagree with each other but that doesn't mean it should prevent you from getting along and be cordial. Also, I do think that the individual aspect is very important to focus on. I understand the need of wanting to help others and at times putting them before yourself. But I also believe that its important to be selfish at times and ensure that your own happiness matters as well. After all, we are a part of everyone with no more or less value to them. So they're value in comparison to your own is not inherently different.
I'm INTP and I've always found my Ti hero to be extremely authentic in always valuing to make the right decisions. Then, I convince people to get on board, explaining how it would be mutually beneficial for everyone (Fe). Amazing how synchronicity within the functions plays out.
Excellent video! I have never heard these functions explained in quite this way and I think it was spot on! 👏
I enjoy your explanations of the functions. Thank you for helping my (Ni) perspective!
Awesome as always! Good data points with examples.
I really needed this. Thank you so much! =D
As a Ti dom I do not look for ways to compromise for the sake of making someone feel better even though Fe is one of my top four cognitive functions.
This is just an excellent video, Nathan.
it's quite difficult for me to figure out which one i use because i have social anxiety. like i've often felt like i'm an infp, but then i also have a lot of these fe moments where i bend to others opinions and try to keep up harmony, but i don't know whether my brain is using fe or social anxiety in these instances
an easy way to determin if you have Fe or Fi is to look if you have a lot of likes/dislikes or not . Fi users are usually very strict about preferences and they use a lot of " i like that " and " i dont like that " i their speech , if you ask them about something they would immediately answer you if they like it or not and are less likely to say the opposite . While an Fe user would usually be neutral about a lot of things and have only a few strict likes/dislikes , also they might even be reluctant to express those few likes and dislikes if they see that it might disrupt the harmony of the group, they might even lie about it and say the opposite.
Social anxiety has got nothing to do with cognitive functions. You still feel what you feel inside.
@@Black.Sabbath mental illnesses very much change the way i think and make desicions
@@ha_ha_sand They do but I think you can separate them (mental illnesses and cognitive functions) when you learn more about both. You can see behind the haze and thicket. I have anxiety issues too but I think I know pretty well that I have insecurities, not Fe.
My fe drives my kids crazy. If theres 2 corndogs and 3 of us i will not take a corndog. Even if my stomache is growling. I get emense pleasure by doing it idk why. I dont think im selfless but more selfish because its about my feelings.. my fe doesnt break my own boundries. I will hold steadfast against the group.
as always, epically articulate 👏👏👏
Excellent study. Thank you. I learned a LOT. Helps me to see hubby and I more clearly.
Good explanation. I am an INTJ who has often wondered where my empathy and compassion came from- function-wise.
Yessss, the beginning statement of everything we do technically being selfish even if it involves self destruction or letting go of stuff is sth ive recently figured out! So glad you think that too:)
I love that you uload more often!
ISFP I learned how to fit in a long time ago.
Just shut up and nobody gets angry at me. Ok maby that doesn't count as fitting in but when in doubt just show up and shut up 😂🤣😂🖤🖤🖤
as an infp i agree with u🙂👌
Let’s all do each other.
Oh myyyyyyy
Those are really great points. I find myself wondering whether, for some people, Fi is more about value than values, or maybe they're confounded for some or many people. This is not referring to monetary value, but to personal value. I don't see this all the time in all people, but it certainly seems like a trend for some people. They care more about about collecting experiences that they value than developing their values, but the two often go together. The problem is that it's easier to see WHAT a person values, and they're more likely to talk about that, than it is to see or discover a person's values ARE most of the time.
"Lets all do each other"-Nathan
damn bro, you need to write a book! this was awesome
I think it is interesting to point out that some people never make the leap from their initial F function to the other. Many Fi and Fe types never learn to do the opposite function.
depends on where it is in their stack
@@ntsomewhere885 It actually doesn't.
@@NathanaelNaused I would argue it does, at least from the 8-function model where the first fx ignores its flip side, the fifth fx and the 3rd fx is blind to its flip side, the 7th fx.
@@ntsomewhere885 Okay so I'll clarify my thought a bit. I agree that position can affect likelihood of growth and ease of tapping into the function. However as we look around we can see many people's personal lives and choices lead to different outcomes in terms of mental development. For instance many of the emo "it's not just a phase mom" Fi types don't ever really stop being all about their own feelings. Some going so far as to basically live their lives as 'If you don't like it then move on'. Even as adults. While for high Fe types you often see many of them persisting into old age still displaying Fe tendencies such as excessive people pleasing, not being able to stand up for themselves, not forming any idea or preferences for themselves etc.
I do also think that for the types growth doesn't necessarily look like a full blown manifestation of every aspect of each cognitive function either but still.
@@NathanaelNaused I agree and my argument still holds. With your first two functions, you will ignore the flip side of your first but you will handily flip your tool function under stress to keep your first function flowing. You can't flip your third function and when called upon to flip it, you will respond with confused frustration. You can flip your fourth function, but rarely need to yet doing so will lead to personal growth. We are reluctant to flip our dominant function for more than a moment. We will flip our second function but only under stress and to keep our first function unflipped.
I think Fi user gets it pretty easily how something makes them feel.
I think Fe user understands feelings pretty easily and know how to use it
That's a very interesting distinction! ~ Nathan
Fi is, in a way, internalized system of unquantifiable values. People who do have a good grasp on the function can have greater self-control in displaying emotional reactions. Because the focus of F is internal, they can recognize what, when, where, how influences that ‘inner system’, and therefore, ‘choose’ whether or not, to show emotional reaction. Fe works differently. It processes the ‘value system’ collectively. Although, it does appreciate harmony, if the group values have been ‘threatened’, there is a certain force that pushes Fe users to actually react to it.
P.S. I do apologize if I come across someone who keeps adding things. Perhaps I do. It’s mainly because my focus is to further clarify things that could potentially be misunderstood. Perhaps it helps to know that I do question and try to keep myself ‘in check’ before writing something.
About the "greater self-control in displaying emotional reactions": why is it often the opposite, though? When Fi users feel something strongly, they may FAIL to control its full manifestation (they may cry or not be able to hide their sadness or anger), while Fe would just pull over the Ti curtain of steel and even appear the opposite of what they feel.
It goes both ways I suppose...
@@timefortee I think that is more related to behavioral tendency. If we were to just examine Fi and Fe as cognitive functions and how they really work, then Fi does get to choose the part of showing emotional reactions on the outside. Yes, they might do so. But the ‘control’ is in their hands. Fe processes emotional needs collectively. Because of that, it does react. And yes. The reaction can be cold and critical. It doesn’t necessarily mean that because we are talking about a ‘feeling’ function, we should expect warmth at any time.
@@solarisan_ Why does it sound like you think Fe users only connect to others' feelings without having any of their own? Lol Especially if the Fe user is an introvert, they may do very little Fe.
@@timefortee I wasn't saying that. Perhaps I didn't phrase the sentence right, or you interpret it that way.
@@solarisan_ Nah I may be reading too much into it... It's a stereotype all right.
ACCURATE.
ABSOLUTELY.
FOR SURE.
- intj
This is really interesting, I was literally looking this up yesterday when I was trying to figure out why my ESFP sister was completely unable to understand my point of view and why I was upset (I’m INTP).
The Fi sympathy vs Fe empathy resonates with me, but that is likely just from my personal observations (my sister is also not a super healthy ESFP). Sympathy to me sometimes looks superficial like pity. While I often empathize with people, I don’t always sympathize. I’m trying to be better, I know there is usually more to situations then appears on the surface.
Thank you for the informative video!
ESFP is almost exactly opposite of INTP so that makes sense
Both Fi and Fe types can do both sympathy and empathy, and most people will use both in different situations. The extent of it depends on the individual and isn't really as simple as Fi user vs. Fe user. Other functions besides the feeling function can also make a difference; for example, high Ne types tend to have an easier time seeing things from different perspectives than high Se types. It's also often easier to bypass an auxiliary function or use it only in limited ways, compared to a dominant function. And of course, unhealthy people can be impaired/limited in all kinds of ways.
My mother's an unhealthy ESFJ and in many cases hasn't been able to understand my (INFP) or my INTP brother's perspectives because we're just too different from her and from the social norms she expects people to conform to. People who are extremely different from each other will often have difficulties understanding each other regardless of their type, and if you're also different from most other people in your environment or society at large, that can make you even harder to understand...
@@multitudesreplyaccount3163 That makes sense, I know I am only able to base what I thought on a limited amount of people I am often around. My mother is INFJ, and she can usually eventually understand why I feel a certain way, but she doesn’t usually bother to unless something is obviously wrong (I’m not very obvious).
High Ne makes sense as well, because I can understand stand why my sister is upset very easily. Our values and behavior are just so different though, that it always seems like she is being over dramatic.
Sorry it’s almost 4am and I think I might have rambled a bit. Thank you for the detailed response!
Just wanted to add that the ESFP I knew told me long ago when I was trying to explain myself (ENFP) and what I cared about that I should just treat her the same way she treats me so that she will really get it.
It seems like words alone didn’t register for her. She wanted an experience. But I felt like that was wrong and so I didn’t, and we stopped all together.
I would say that particularly those functions in any order (Se Fi Te Ni) together, are willing and rather take life on the chin and for whatever it is until it proves itself otherwise.
The thing that you’re calling pity might be a lack of genuine understanding of your perspective. It’s not default to Fi but just where we start for any foreign problem. I’d say it’s a result of a combination of caring about the person enough to try to understand the problem (sympathy) but not being able to empathize due to lack of experience with the problem given. I think Fe is more able to step into the feelings of others and mirror them without having a personal understanding of the dilemma (empathy without sympathy).
When Fi people call Fe people fake, they fail to see that Fe people start from Empathy first and then work their way up to understanding later. This seems fake because for Fi, we feel disoriented from being asked to empathize without a real experiential/conceptual understanding to empathize with. Taking someone’s experience of suffering at their word feels like a total abandonment of the carefully crafted understanding of emotions and intentions we have for people.
It’s the same thing the other way around with selfish vs selfless from Fe people. It seems like Fe stops people from comprehending someone being able to prioritize their own needs but still caring about someone. Being selfish is disorienting for Fe. But for Fi, that “selfishness” is more like “precision” about what is causing the experience. And that pity” is the floundering attempt to empathize with something without said precision.
@@nigelharvey640 Thank you for the detailed response! This gave me a lot to think about, and I read through it a couple times to make sure I understood everything.
When I think of empathy vs sympathy, I always think of the famous photographer, Jacob Riis. He had sympathy for the poor immigrants living in New York (this was the late 1800s) and took lots of pictures to draw attention to their plight. Because of this there is still a lot of praise for his philanthropy.
The problem is, he saw those people as "others" and represented them very disrespectfully, often as pathetic or even criminals. He had the best intentions to help them, but just seemed unable to empathize with them. This is a bit of an extreme example, but I just wanted to explain what comes to mind when I compare the two. Both are important of course, because at least we are not sociopaths lol.
Edit: I wanted to add something about the selfish vs selfless as well. I've definitely learned as I have gotten older how important it is to take care of your mental health. I'm not sure I handle it in the best way, because to stop worrying/being frustrated by what other people do, I isolate myself more and more. I respect Fi for having strong values and prioritizing their needs.
"Without being overly philosophical"
Are you telling me to stop existing?
JK...
I also think Fi users like me, not only value authenticity in my views, but also authenticity in others' views, and it's okay if we disagree or feel differently. However, if somebody says or does something without really believing in it themselves, Fi users perceive that as their value-systems being easily compromised and their advice as being untrustworthy.
For example, for "Does this dress make me look fat?", Fi users may value the truth, while Fe users may value the polite answer. Or when choosing a restaurant to eat, Fi users will prefer that everyone enjoyed the food, and to be honest about what you like and dislike. But Fe users may think, that doesn't matter, and to go along with what is proposed as long as everyone had a good time, even if you personally did not enjoy it.
"Let's all do each other?"
Why not instead say,
"Be excellent to each other?"
As an ENFJ, I feel like I have a very healthy Fi. It was, however, hard-won once I hit adulthood.
I once again have a lady bug crawling on me. Why are they awake?
And yes, I laughed at the "Let's just all do each other."
If only it wasn't so damn true.
Can you elaborate
@@NathanaelNaused well... I mean... I guess they're awake cause we've had a lot of sunny days recently? And our house is really warm? But I don't speak lady bug, so it's hard to know for sure...
@@christineherrmann205 Or you can elaborate on the first part of the comment you made lol
@@NathanaelNaused um, boundaries, realizing I am the way I am because I was raised by someone with a lot of narcissistic traits, in a house where my parents fought a lot. I had to go through some very bad romantic relationships to realize 'No, you don't ever heal anyone, really' and the only person you can change is yourself. All the typical things an ENFJ has gotta come to terms with eventually. Starting to find that inner compass is crucial; you really need strong Fi to survive a narcissist. Some responses _need_ to be "No. That's wrong for me. Do it yourself. I can't right now, I'm doing this. I'm going to go out with my friends, etc." When you consistently live your life to please others,you start to realize... it's not _your_ life.
Oftentimes, I think we forget to make the distinction between healthy and unhealthy Fi and Fe.
I’ve noticed that unhealthy Fe is notorious for pressuring people into behaving a certain way within groups. If someone doesn’t agree to the group plan-say, a party or get-together-then those with unhealthy Fe use peer pressure and guilt-tripping to induce conformity.
You could also spin it the other way as Manipulative vs. Principled. It all comes down to how psychologically healthy you are.
Fe in gaming analogy that he made is playing Yuumi in League of Legends. She attaches to allies and buffs them up
Thank you
Great video!
Thanks for sharing your insghts into the cognitive functions. I appreciate your key distinctions. ~INFP
This is one of the best videos explaining the difference between Fe and Fi. I appreciated how you explained that both feeling functions are capable of empathy and altruism; they just simply show it in different ways.
Also side question: Will there be an ENFJ mug available? Thank you!
It’s almost become a running joke at this point that there isn’t an ENFJ mug. I totally forgot to make one! I might revisit them and do it at some point though ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Thank you! If you do, I will definitely purchase one! :)
"Let's all do eachother"
Oh well,
😭😭
What’s my MBTI if my stats are: Fi>=Fe>Si>TiTe>Ne>Se
It's easy to confuse high empathy for Fe, I suppose. People don't know I have high empathy because of my RBF and sometimes monotone voice
I always got along with everyone! Then over time i been hurt by rejection time and time again. Now i have become more individualistic. This explanation helped me realise im not ESFP. I always wondered, why am i so calm for an extrovert and why do i dislike too much talk? Its because im ESFJ! Now i understand myself so much better. I took the myers briggs test and they said I was an ESFP. Well, ESFP do not have any insecurities. I do. Im working on it though. Thank you doctor!
more confused than I was before....oh dear lol..love your stuff..just confused af now xD
This is very confusing because I could very much relate to the Fe part about empathy and valuing harmony but when it came to the definition of Fi and Fe 5:40 I find myself gravitating more towards Fi.
I have an important question for the distintinction between Fi and Fe. If Fe is based on, let's say, "society values", it's impossible that there was not a step in life which consisted in picking certain values from it, because society is full of also completely opposite values, and this picking resembles Fi. At the same time, if Fi chooses it's own values "indepentently from society's values", it's still true that the values Fi chooses come from original society ones. In the end, in this way both Fe and Fi are the same, heelp!!
Inferior Fe, I'm an INTP, my dominant function being Ti, secondary Ne.
The way I *think* I use Fe is by playing the devil's advocate and keep people suffciently appeased as to keep absorbing info and interacting with them. And am prone to agreeing, or not disagreeing with the rest as long as it makes sense to my own beliefs and way of doing things.
Not sure if that's actually me trying to rely more on Fe, or just faking it via Ti and Ne because I can see how Fe works, and make sense of how it works from outside, and then apply those patterns to people. A reason why I like MBTI.
I see how that works? Ok, go on. I don't see how it works? Ehh... something feels wrong... but please continue while I tear things apart in my mind.
After taking a deep dive on the deciding functions (Fe/Fi/Te/Ti), I have come to think of T versus F as having a yin/yang relationship, with T focusing on the rational and F focusing on the irrational. The more I think about it, the more sense this makes to me. It's the focus on the rational versus the irrational that distinguishes the two. There is also a positive space/negative space relationship between them, with one defining the other. I find myself interested in the process whereby a topic in the irrational realm becomes rational, how a person moves their thinking about something from the inchoate irrational into the structured rational (not to be confused with the defense mechanism of rationalization, which is an irrational process).
As an ISFP i find Fe doms annoying a lot as they seem to like to try and tell people what to do and what's acceptable or right etc. I always think Fi is very introverted and quiet most of the time whereas Fe is very loud and a bit controlling. Maybe that's just me.
a lot of this developing healthy & early on, i believe, depends on one’s guardians.
For example the narcissist and/or trauma (unrecognized/untreated) will without a doubt shut children down whereas open minded receptive ones will delight in children’s curiosity & personality as well as a desire to nurture & balance them.
Being born as an anarchist ISFJ I have sort of an unconcious reaction about conforming to my surroundings. If too many people like something or do something I can't bring myself to do the same. However I really do value the harmony of the group, as long as there is room for me to be different. But I do feel that my individualism is somehow still external. I want to conform to some kind of outside values, just that they lie even outside of my closer surroundings if that makes sense. It's more of an abstract community that I have in my head.
Can relate, especially the "too many people like someone or do something" part, though if I do like that certain someone/something, I still can like it the way I like it (I often think I'm an Fi user because of this, but then I learnt that everyone has their own moral value or preferences). But mostly though, people's attitude or perception toward a certain someone or something *do* affect the way I view/feel about it. Pretty random but I also account my own personal logic (what makes sense to me the most) when it comes to make a decision (mostly for the way I view someone or something) amongst what other people think/say a certain person/thing, which explains the Fe-Ti relation thing. Sometimes my Ti stands more (a.k.a. preferring to follow personal logic over what people think, even though my Fe plays a larger role when it comes to decision making type of stuff), especially when I'm on social media because it's easier for me to feel "rude" when I'm using it.
I'm an INFJ by the way (fellow aux Fe! Random, not very useful information: I got mistyped as an ISFJ for months)
Fe vs Fi is something I've been interested in for a long time. I'm very confident I'm an ENFP. I fit the bill in almost every way; definitely lead with Ne, and I can totally see how I use Te and Si...BUT I look like an Fe dom like an ExFJ. Could I be an ENTP? If my Ti wasn't so weak and Te so obvious then maybe. I also have some very strong Se-like tendencies but that's a topic for when Nathan does Se / Si
I absolutely have the Fi "how do I feel / what's important to me" more narrow inner focus and in some cases it drives how I behave outwardly. I do tend to know how I feel about something and what feels right and wrong, but I just don't care and take the Fe path almost every time. What others think, what's important to them, how I can bring harmony always trumps my own wishes and self-interests, especially if I care about that person(s). And I'm also good at matching energies and blending with others and I tend to be super empathetic. I think if someone was watching this video, they'd say I'm 100% and Fe user and not Fi. But it's actually pretty exhausting to live this way, which is another indication I'm definitely Fi with masquerading Fe. I think Fe for me is more of a developed skill than anything. So not all ENFPs are fiercely individualistic, some of us just need a little work! My wife, on the other hand, is an ISFP and her Fi is obvious and basically exactly as described in the video.
Interestingly with the Selfless vs Selfish comparison in the intro - while I know FI isn't REALLY selfish, I can't help but have negative feelings about it sometimes because it does feel that way to me. Could it be that my Fi is against being selfish so it therefore rejects itself?? Who knows!! Apologies for the long and very random post (per normal ENFP behavior)!
I think indeed Fi can feel negative about being selfish and thus tries to act like Fe...but then possibly slowly gets frustrated if they can not respect their own feelings at the same time (if they constradict)
Yes, whole built text works on Ne-Si, Fi-Te functions - you will definitely not be a Fe user. Reflecting on what others think is the domain of Te, not Fe - Fe focuses on the emotions of others, without putting one's own above others. I think it can be simplified in this way.
If you have negative feelings about Fi, try to think of it like this:
Fe users help other people because it makes them feel good about them selves, not necessarily because they care about those other people or even like them. But they help nonetheless. So Fe can be fake, but it is seen as altruistic.
Fi users help people if they feel like helping them, and not because it is expected of them. They will help if they like those people or believe in what they are trying to achieve, and if not, they wont. So Fi is mostly quite true and honest, but it is seen as selfish.
if anything I've noticed that Fe is the sympathetic type, while Fi is the empathetic type, if by necessity. Fi can only see from our own perspective, so we have to imagine being in the scenario someone else is in, which is why sometimes we have a hard time. If I, in your shoes, wouldn't feel the same way you do, I don't know what to do. Fe does not have to do this, rather they interact with the emotion directly, regardless of what caused it.
Yes. There's a similar dichotomy between Ti and Te
I think Fi sounds quite noble but whether that's the case in practice. My mum is an ISFP. I think I have the same principles but I use Ti.
I feel like both. I have social anxiety so I always conform to others but like I'm not gonna conform in the way of wearing make-up to keep up harmony or anything il still be me but I also don't know who I am and accommodate to others constantly just not with certain things
I took the test based on functions and for me the most prominent was ENFP, so the same like in standard test but in this based on functions I had 100% Fe function as well and 90 Fi if I remenber good, so I think I can claim that these are balanced in my case 🙃. I have INFJ sister and believe that she teached me a lot how to use Fe and be more mindful about peoples feelings and needs, not only Individuals but also groups
I see both selfless and selfish as problematic.
To be selfless to the point of not being able to get back the things you own or the money you have borrowed is as much of a problematic thing as selfishly grabbing everything.
I honestly don't know why selfless has such a positive vibe. Maybe it was propagated by evil people...haha
Anyways, as someone on the 'low' end of this pair, I see both of the presented Fi/Fe side appearing as issues during childhood.
The only difference to actually distinguish what the "lowest of the low" functions is, is probably the amount of issues and the pace of adaptation is.
For Fe it would be, maybe, knowing your effect on other peoples 'goodwill', being able to charm people into do what you want to, as a kid ( getting yourself pocket money for ice cream, for example)
Which leaves Fi as being able to deal with your own feelings, knowing what you want, standing stable in the center of your own persona. (Which Fe is not really able to do, since they love to mimic instead, getting lost in other's feelings and not caring about their own until it's too late)
I related to Fe 100% until the fitting in part. I was always quite a weird and unique child. Child-me was very focused on protecting people and their emotions. I was basically the school police who made sure that everybody was nice to everybody. I usually put other people's needs before mine, because mine weren't strong enough to value over theirs. Like if I was on a swing and somebody else asked me if they could swing on it, I would always say yes because I knew saying yes wouldn't make me that sad, but it might make the other person sad. My focus was an unusual amount on other people for my age, my goal was to make everybody get along with everybody and to make everybody happy. Other children would love to play their make-believe games but I was never interested in them. They were boring to me, there was no point in doing them, but I still did once in a while to fit in better. I liked talking more. If you'd ask me what I wanted to do in between classes I'd want to just walk around and talk. I started watching 13+ tv shows at 8 years old instead of cartoons cause "humans are so much more interesting than these weird talking animals". Something else that was very weird about me is that I never had any stuffed animals. Mom would offer them to me but I would rather sleep with hard toys.
People picked up on that I was different and decided not to like me, I guess. I've never been popular or fitted in anywhere. What type do y'all think child-me is giving?
In my perspective, it sounded like you value group harmony. It also sounded like you were saying that as long as everyone was happy, you were happy too. This makes me think of my mom. She's always thinking of others and tries to improve the lives of others in some way.
Personally it kind of bothers me sometimes. I'm also weary of others taking advantage of that kindness. Can you guess if I'm an Fe or Fi user? 😆 Sometimes I'm not sure which one I am because I grew up with my mom trying to teach me to put others needs before mine.
I also didn't fit in with my classmates growing up. 🙃
@@eval4495 Your assumption about be being happy as long as others are happy is not exactly true. I feel bad if somebody else is feeling bad, especially if I could've done something about it. And I like it when others are happy. But that doesn't mean that I deep down don't feel unhappy. And if everyone else has already been taken care of and are happy, then I can start to focus on and take care of myself. I've learned through life that not everyone always wants your help, and that the only person we are truly responsible for is ourselves (and our potential children, ig). So sometimes I stay out of people's problems if I feel like it's not my place to meddle.
I'm not sure what you are, since Fi users can desire to be kind to others too, and can also be affected by what they've been taught. I do think though, that an Fi user is far more likely to see being different as a good thing and express themselves even if others wouldn't agree. Even if they don't express it, they usually tend to have a strong sense of self that they can't wait to show people. They tend to know what they want in life too. As an Fe user, I don't have a strong sense of identity. I identify the most with the way I think, and feel uncomfortable with identifying with external things. And I feel even more uncomfortable when I have to tell people about what I like, in case they will see it as an act of self-expression and make asusmptions about me (that are not psychological, because yes let's make psychological assumptions about each other, that would be fun). I try to get a sense of the social norms around me before even attempting to express myself. Before doing something, I always think "how will everyone else react to this?".I wouldn't mind being like I am if everyone else was like me or if I knew that I would be accepted, but in this society being me is not nice at all.
I think that one difference between me and you though, is that I usually don't think that people are taking advatage of me. They might be, but I don't think like that. I don't find it wrong if they do. I think it's my responsibulity whether I help them or not, so if I do, that's on me. Most people would like to take advatage of things that makes them feel good or is good for them. It's not morally right though if they then go around being mean towards that person who provides that for them. And if they did, I would stop being so overly kind towards them (but still act like a decent human being, but like that person needs to grow up and realize that you can't treat people how you want, and me being overly nice towards them is not helping anyone, it's just hindering their self-development). My Ti is quite developed, so if needed, I will put my Ti before my Fe.
I started out with high fe now i somewhat developing my fi
3:24 LMAO
I can’t wait for the Se versus Si video those are the functions I understand the least that video will be great
Agree to disagree (Fi) vs Compromise (Fe)
Let's all do each other! I like that! 😂
Can't for the last one Se and Si. Also can you do a video about how to know the ranking of the cognitive functions (within the self and the others)?
My friend (Fe) and I (Fi) discussed society and family. I said I prefer the society where there is more focus on individuals like having two bank accounts, doing different things and the family should be an union of people who are first and foremost unique individuals who decided to be and provide for the family. Of course, they need to learn to work and live with each other, but the family members must not forget their own needs and desires. My friend disagreed and said that they believe a family is a union of people and they support each other even if it requires a sacrifice and more effort. We both agreed that there are extremes on both sides, which are pathological, but for me it was just an interesting conversation to analyze her point of view, which I understood.
But I strengthed my argument by saying that the rich countries are the ones that have a culture that prioritizes an individual haha, and that in cultures where the family is prioritized, there are statistically more cases of domestic violence.😅 The friend was NOT in a mood for a debate 🥲.
As an INFJ, any tips on how I can learn to lean more into my Fi?
I have been trying to develop my Fi, since I notice it helps me center myself and become more me.
I hope you do more Robert greene x mbti content, particularly the victim types since you already did the archetypes😊
@5:39 *chefs kiss*
i was looking for this video literally 2 days ago
I've noticed when arguing, an INTP and an INFP can sometimes see each other as selfish or childish. There must be some dynamic to the way each respective hero function triggers the other's demon function. Ti vs Fi.
Very interesting observation, I'll definitely watch out for this more ~ Nathan
Would an enneagram 9 fi user make this destinction more complicated, since the enneagram 9 is alot about getting inner and outer harmony
I wonder the same thing since I'm a 9 fi too
@@izy2302 im not an fi user, just wondered about this.
@@MetalShag 😂ohhh
@@izy2302 Jippi!
Type 9 INFP here, my answer to your question is yes. I always feel like that when I'm compromising,even though I think that I did the right thing and I'm kind of fine with it,inside it just feels like if I have just "lost" something,if that makes sense