Hi!😊There are clearly way more comparisons than I put thought into thanks to comments. It's also becoming clear that even story beats like an NPC confronting you near the end are being mirrored! I think it's also possible to mirror multiple people. Miquella parallels and also opposites both Ranni and Marika in many ways. You guys have some awesome ideas. I feel dumb for not calling attention to Midra / Goldmask lol. There are becoming too many comments to keep up with so I might stop here. I'll pop in every now and again. I appreciate the support! ♥ I probably won't be making another ER video like this unless I feel like I can offer something unique. There's already so many great lore experts and literary analysts out there pining over it. I just post whatever I'm interested in at that moment. Stick around if you like indie games especially! Edit: REMEMBER TO CHECK OUT NEOJETTY!! THEIR DOCUMENTATION OF NPCS HAS SUCH NICE ANGLES
Something else I find kinda funny in hindsight when it comes to Gideon and Ansbach, is that Gideon refers to Mohg as a delusional maniac who wasn’t going to amount to much. Yet, Mohg’s most loyal servant and commander of his Pureblood Knights, ends up being the most level-headed and wise character in the entire fucking game (besides Turtle Pope of course, but they’re pretty close)
When i saw ansbach i knew mohg was one of the most charismatic and smart characters of the game. Beacuse the average serial killer would never just convince someone so wise and humble to his cause. Hell, his cult may actually hold a very good cause. Considering what the formless mother does in the land of shadow (they are still killers don't get me wrong)
Ansbach is polite and genuinely one of my favorite characters, but once Miquella’s charm is broken he’s far from level-headed. Sure he doesn’t fall as far as Leda, but you should read the description of his chestplate which explicitly describes him as illogical.
Even the final lines of Gideon and Ansbach parallel each other. Gideon says a Tarnished can't be lord and man can't kill god. Meanwhile Ansbach encourages us to become "a lord not for gods, but for men."
Leda could be an inversion of Roderika. Roderika loved her companions but lost all of them. Leda is surrounded by companions but feels nothing for them and would even betray and try to kill them without a second thought. Roderika was lost, left without purpose until you come along and gives her a new one. Leda always has her one unshakable purpose. Even when Miquella's spell on her breaks, her purpose remains the same, unchanged unshaken. But then again I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass.
Why not Thiollier and Rogier being parallels? The attitudes are opposites from each other: With Rogier being confident and Thiollier being timid. Thiollier essentially perpetually waiting to be able to see St. Trina until the Greatrune was broken. Rogier was actively looking for ways to help TWLID by seeking answers until he got affected by the corpse under Stormveil. Rogier slowly falling asleep during his questline up to his death. Thiollier essentially "waking up" after the duel with you and went off to help you out for the final couple of battles. Rogier helping you out at the beginning of your journey, Thiollier helping you out at the end of the DLC.
Glad someone else pointed this out. I’d also like to add that they both find themselves enraptured by a woman and what they represent; Rogier to Fia and the aspect of Death, and Thiollier to St Trina and the aspect of Eternal Sleep. Both represent a release from the burden of life. Rogier fights alongside you against Margit but ultimately fights against you for Fia, and Thiollier fights against you when you reach St Trina but comes to fight by your side in Enir Ilim. Perhaps there’s also a connection in Rogier once being close friends with D but eventually comes to side with Fia, while Thiollier befriends you but quickly changes his tune when St Trina starts talking to you.
This is a pretty sound theory, Goldmask is seemingly a very respected sage for the Golden order, allowing him the freedom to contemplate and meditate to reach enlightenment and uncover it's truths with the player's help, Midra, by contrast, was heavily persecuted for his research into the Frenzy, and this persecution and pain eventually causes him to break, and in that darkness arise as the Lord of Frenzied Flame, only once the player comes in to kill him. Plus, both guys are tall and slender, nearly naked except for their tattered robes, with Goldmask's sun shaped mask making for a perfect parallel to Midra's new flaming head of frenzy, hell they even hit the same pose
@@ixiahj Yeah this is the take, 100%. They both have Suns for heads. Midra is a sage for resisting his God and their will, which he is rejected for and ultimately gives into. Goldmask is a sage for following his God's order, devoutly, for which his followers reject him, and he ultimately rejects his God.
@tonylawson2222 i agree with this except i don't think goldmask "rejects" his god. He just acknowledges the fallibility of the golden order and seeks to repair and improve what was broken.
And she is more than willing to kill those who get in her way during her questline, just like the Tarnished is towards those who stand in their way towards reaching lordship
*spoiler for the endboss* I think our shadow is Radahn. We want to kill a god, he protects it. We keep our mind and resist miquella's charm, he doesn't. we keep our horse, he doesn't :(
Leda is definitely the counterpart to us, the player. Murderhobo, Devotion to a demigod child of Marika, Having no hesitation to kill one's close allies to see the ultimate task through.
It has to be the case. Being that the literal end fight between You and anything other than the final boss of the game itself is you versus her and her party of fellow NPCs she's recruited through her adventure then I don't know who else would be a better mirror. I mean she literally has her cooperators fighting our cooperators Aunt also the fact that none of her cooperators and only some of ours have the golden sheen of being a cooperator. The implication almost being that this is like a collective world. Like she is so much our equal in how she is basically just us on a different journey that when we come together to fight it's not even like we're invading her or she's invading us it's more akin to like finding solaire just vibing everywhere, the timelines are converging, shit's going wacky, you are fighting your other self in the most literal sense you can other than it just creating an equal to you. She is your spiritual second. You're negative double. It's fucking wild honestly
Leda is the shadow of Chorynn to me. They are both feverent zealots. The difference is that Leda never abandons her idol, while Chorynn can't accept his in the end.
Imagine a Standoff between Corhyn and Leda, bloody hell, let the more maniacal Zealot win it´s probably going to be Leda since Corhyn is somewhat dull and does not show too much fighting prowess but still
I'll never find Coryhn any form of anything other than hilariously stupid because like bro's a scholar and then when he learns something new about his religion the only logic he can put into it is "ah yes this is wrong because it wasn't written about before".
Like bro literally saw that new information was being found out about something through research and his only logic was that that must be false because it wasn't the case before meaning that it can't be the case ever. He's literally just modern-day Christian nationalists
I like this one best by far! Corhynn is the one unaccounted for npc warrior in the roundtable that I can think of who also leaves the roundtable (Roderika doesn't feel like any of these others in that all she never leaves the roundtable once she arrives.) They are both devout zealots, and in the end their zealotry leads them to deep suspicion and murder. The difference is that Leda kills anyone who she thinks is a threat to her master (Miquella)... ...whereas Corhynn KILLS HIS MASTER (Goldmask) thinking of him as the threat to the Golden Order.
i like how gideon pretends to be a good person working for the "holy" round table of the golden order but ultimately is horrible. while ansbach works for an "evil" lord and god but is a good man
Rodahn is the Gigachad. Most wholesome demigod. Mohg , abandoned by his family, set his eyes on a Dynasty of his own named after himself and his younger bro Godwyn- Mohgwyn. Miquela used both these well natured brothers for his own selfishness.
I feel like people are forgetting the part where Mohg founded the Bloody Fingers, killers of little concience, or are we supposed to assume Miquella somehow manipulated Mohg into doing that aswell? All I'm saying is; Ansbach has ran an ingredible campaing to boost his Lord's public image, but he's still a madman trying to make the world like the fetid bloodswamps around his Mohgwyn Dynasty.
@@wispfire2545 and Rodahn's redmains slaughtered birds, dogs and rot boys in Caelid. Both Rodahn and Mohg have people willingly follow them despite their bloodshed. . Miquela forces allegiance.
Just an FYI Moore does have a happy ending. Simply answer I don't know and proceed. When you've dealt with Leda and co he should still be where he was alive and well pledging his friendship to you. Or if you've never interacted with him prior he'll simply focus on his relationship with his brood as that will help him to keep going. He doesn't actually have to die, and I think saying the I don't know answer is for the best as he actually thinks for himself here rather than rely on you to provide him an answer.
@@edd4131 he doesn't appear in the fight at all if you choose "I don't know". When I did the fight, the only followers that ended up fighting me were Leda and Dane.
Fun theory video, wanted to comment on Moore and his story. Moore is not obsessed with the forager brood. Rather, he IS the forager brood. They are his kin in the literal sense, he is a forager brood inside of a suit of armor, which completely recontextualizes his character. He isn't unintelligent, rather he's exceptionally intelligent for his kind as he can communicate with the tarnished with words. And I've seen another comment mentioning how he doesn't have to die, which is true. If we answer with "I Don't Know" he won't partake in the arena fight and will remain alive, which seems incredibly fitting because many times we aren't comfortable with accepting that we don't know something, as if it makes us less capable, but this acceptance is what allows Moore to find peace and make his own decision. Sure he may be lonely, but he can continue living. Excellent work, peace and love!
Like to add that the forager brood and pests are not unintelligent: the descriptions on their spears say they have an apparent but incomprehensible keen intellect. Moore's exceptionalness comes from his ability to communicate and mingle with humans
@mika9578 thank you for adding this! I didn't mean to imply that the brood was unintelligent, just that at first glance, one might assume that Moore is a bit of a bluntstone lol not sure if my comment came off that way but can totally see how that may be possible, wonderful point to add either way 🍻
@@mika9578Makes me wonder about Gowry. I guess he isn't actually forager brood and just possesses one. But he does talk like he is part of them, so I am not sure.
Is he directly confirmed to be a forager brood himself? He has unique facial data under his armor so he appears to be quite normal. I was always under the assumption he's more like Tarzan of the Rot, or another Aeonia bloom baby like Millicent and her sisters.
@kikrinman1450 I genuinely don't know what's going on with my comments, and so again I apologize if the answer to your question is here 3 or 4 times, I just can't see any of my own responses for some reason and didn't want to leave you hangin lol there is confirmation that Moore was a pest follower of Malenia on the official bandai namco website, my best guess for the human character model is they needed a body inside of the suit of armor that wouldn't encounter clipping or technical issues. I hope this comment is visible and hope you have a great week!
The way I like to compare Ranni and Miquella is that Ranni wishes to protect the world from the folly of the gods while Miquella wants to protect the world from the folly of man
Woops, that makes more sense. I just couldn't see Gideon getting up to do something himself so I immediately thought of Ensha when Latenna said a name.
I feel like if I had to force a comparison between Leda and a Roundtable member, I think D would be a good fit. Apart from being two armored Greatsword wielders that are extremely devoted to their cause, D always struck me as a “NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION” type of guy. Like, from the way he speaks of Those Who Live in Death, to the way Rogier expresses how pissed D would be with him were him to find out Rogier’s opinions on the undead, I always got the impression that he could very easily snap and kill either Fia or Rogier if he were to find out. He’s also EXTREMELY callous about exterminating the undead, almost as much as Leda is about those she thinks could betray Miquella. The thing being that well… he never does get to do any of that. Fia kills him before he ever gets to really do anything. And honestly, at least to me, it’s never really made clear whether he suspects either Fia or Rogier, hell from the way he speaks of Rogier after he’s hit with deathblight, you can see he pities him, as a long time comrade that can’t stomach seeing an old friend slowly rot to death. Leda on the other hand, makes her suspicions of others very clear, and very much gets to act on those suspicions even if she doesn’t always succeed (or succeed at all for that matter). However in a similar way to D, she never seems to express any anger or hatred for her own comrades, even as she’s actively hunting them down. In her mind, she’s just doing what she deems necessary in the name of her lord, and as such the language she uses reflects that. Now I don’t think it’s a perfect fit, but I do think it’s interesting how both groups have a feverishly devoted holy knight that’s willing to do some fucked up shit in the name of their holy cause. It’s just that Leda demonstrates how dangerous D could’ve been had he known better.
I think that's a closer comparison than what I gave to be fair. I wonder if they originally intended for characters to have a much more direct comparison because I think Ansbach and Moore have very clear opposites in the base game.
@@bigfreakinfrogI have the feeling that the parallels are more so a framework or reference from which they decided to make the new NPCs, as opposed to something they strictly stuck to per say. This probably resulted in some parallels being more clear cut than others, as to not completely restrict themselves when making this new cast. We also have to remember that the Roundtable Hold is not a static bunch, new members come as others leave to then never return, so I wouldn’t worry if the parallels don’t fit perfectly, cause I feel like there’s enough to drive in the point that Miquella’s Followers are very much the opposite of the Roundtable Hold. Hell, this can be seen even if we look at them as a collective, cause Miquella’s Followers are far more active players in the narrative, even if most of them end up as foes in the end. By comparison, the members of the Hold are more so using the place as refuge from the outside world, as stated by Gideon himself. Most of them, if any, can no longer see the guidance of Grace, and as such they just sort of stick to their own matters as opposed to fighting the Shardbearers and seeking Lordship. Miquella’s bunch is far from united in the end, but even then they’re very much present when the time comes. Be it individually or as a collective, Miquella’s Followers are what the Roundtable never manages to be. But yeah overall, I loved this analysis. The NPCs surprisingly ended up being my favorite part of the SOTE’s narrative, and beyond the Ansbach/Gideon parallels, it never occurred to me that it went this deep as far as opposites went. It definitely gave me a new appreciation a story I already adored.
@@bigfreakinfrogHomey, she's Roderika if anyone. Think about Roderika's backstory, from when you first met her.. before she met you. For example Roderika is intensely loyal to her friends and allies even though she's a coward who lacks confidence. Leda has no loyalty whatsoever to anyone except her God. Leda is a combatant, Roderika is a spiritualist. Roderika inspired loyalty, Leda absolutely does not. But by the same token their parallels are astonishing. All of the allies they traveled with to accomplish their goals die. Seriously, there's only two people in the whole game defined by who they travel with.
Yeah the D twins are insane, the speech Devin gives to Godwyn after he kills Fia is pure unadulterated zealotry. It's neat because Darian is similar to Leda before the charm breaks, welcoming and asks you to join him, but Devin just straight up murders anyone that aligns themselves with the dead
@@skcasuality7472 Hell yeah. Didn't think about it from an overall narrative perspective but they are much more active. For some reason that makes looking at all NPCs in the game more satisfying for me.
Diallos and Hornsent contrast each other, so well, you're right on that! Both in their own ways yearn to saciate their bloodlust either to prove oneself to their family or to avenge them both have nearly opposite endings and aswell are both being potentates
I think another great link is that while diallos embraces the role of potentate later in his quest, its heavily hinted that hornsent has long renounced his role as potentate (discussed in the greater potentate cookbooks description) and has taken up the garbs of the revenger.
Some sort of juxtaposition: Freya will fight for radahn, even after his resurrection as a consort, but Jerren is willing to leave radahn after he fulfilled his promises to him. granting him a warrior's death. (Note: I also believe that Jerren may not have known that radahn was going to be resurrected but he most likely wouldn't re-join radahn's forces even if he knew he was alive again due to his ""wandering/Tumble weed-like"" nature and his relation to sellen and her questline and his promise to ""rid caria"" of it's resident witch...)
One Part of me just wants to grab Sir Gideon Ofnir by one of his many ears, drag him to the Land of Shadow, show him around, put him at a table with Ansbach, all just to in the end whisper in his ear: "Didn´t know about all this, now did ya, ey Mister Allknowing?"
Unfortunately that would be very cheap gocha moment because Gideon actively pays you for information; he WANTS to become All-Knowing, not claims that he already is
@@umukzusgelos4834 I wish there was secret ending style thing when if you killed Miquella Gideon learns of it and instead of fighting you he appears as summon in fights against Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast and only THEN challenges you for the title of Elden Lord (or doesnt). My guy knew exactly how dangerous Tarnished is and still chose to confront us, Ofnir absolutely has "Fuck it we ball" dawg in him, so if he learns "Oh shit, a man CAN kill a god" this might be enough to convince him take up the arms.
Some more comparisons of Alexander and Igon that I noticed. Both become crippled (in a sense) after a fight against a terrifying enemy. Alexander becomes cracked and generally more cowardly and Igon loses a leg and becomes manic. Both also use the player tarnished as their motivation to overcome their fear. Alexander, inspired by the tarnished's victory over Radahn, seeks to temper himself before succumbing to an honorable death. Meanwhile Igon, inspired by the Tarnished's victory over the jagged peak dragons, takes up his bow once again and dies as a proud drake knight.
I think that Leda is like a shadow of Hewg. Both cursed to follow their quest (crafting a weapon to kill a God vs devotion to Miquella) but neither really care about that, they just fully devote themselves to their quest. To them, there is no other path. Even after Hewg's chain is broken and after Miquella's charm is shattered both Hewg and Leda still tread that same path of total devotion. The inversion, I think, is their attitude towards allies. For Hewg, that is Roderika. Hewg doesn't gatekeep any of his knowledge or his friendship with her; rather he feels that HE isn't worthy of her allying herself with him. Leda is the opposite. She feels that others are not worthy of Miquella's love and will take any excuse to exclude them (violently). Great vid btw :)
Leda might be a shadow of Millicent? Miquella/Melania. Leda is devoted to Miquella and Millicent rejects miquella('s needle). They both take long journeys to follow a demi god. They both kill their peers/sisters. The tarnished can betray both of them. They're both manipulated? Leda sacrifices others while Millicent sacrifices herself Leda is fine with Miquella contorting her into whatever image he sees fit while Millicent would rather die than become something she is not
What if Leda is the contrast to Blaidd. Both follow their master without questions. Both given undying loyalty to their master. Both attacked us Tarnished at the end of their quest while Blaidd doing so due to the curse put upon him that driving him insane, despite that he still think about protecting Ranni. Leda trying to kill us because she is the loyalty follower to a fault, as it's imply in her item description that she may killed all her fellow Needle Knight Order because she suspect everyone of them to betray Miquella.
Leda being a shadow of the tarnished did come to mind, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. The only other comparison I see is with Blaidd, for roughly the same justification. amazing video, you're 100% onto something real. I'd also offer Yura x Igon.
We can find similitudes between Leda and and several base game characters (Corhin, D and Malenia are all very devoted to something or someone), but I think she is the foil -or the shadow- of Roderika. Both characters are a conversation about comraderie, bonds and purpose: Roderika loved her companions and they loved her back. They fought and died for her and, even in death, that love and care continues. Leda's group is held together by a spell. Roderika was purposeless, she embarked on the quest to follow grace because that was a path that was decided for her, whereas Leda was an Oathseeker that found herself a purpose to devout herself to. Roderika thrives when forms bonds with others: her comrades give her the will to keep living and find a new purpose, her relationship with both Hugh and the player help her discover her calling as spirit tuner and she pays your help in kind, becoming an ally that will support you in your quest to kill a god. Leda puts her objectives before anyone, her relationships are tenuous and exist out of interest, she learns nothing through her voyage, she doesn't change: charm or not, her objective remains the same. She opposes you for trying to slay a god.
It seems to me like Leda is almost a mirror of Melina. She’s absolutely devoted to seeing her god rise to power, willing to even sacrifice herself to ensure that their new order comes to pass, but unlike Melina she does not so much support Miquella directly (as Melina does us by leveling us up and providing us counsel) as she does cut down all those she sees as threats to his ascension.
Maybe Leda's a shadow of Seluvis? He fakes loyalty to Ranni while plotting to subvert her, while Leda is purely loyal to Miquella. She confronts you directly alongside allies while Seluvis operates entirely through puppets. Where Seluvis' information is actually helpful when progressing Ranni's objectives, Leda's an afterthought who's simply chasing Miquella's discarded pieces and has no role in his actual ascension. Leda's also placed in opposition to Ansbach, which could mirror Seluvis' falling out with Gideon
Leda is definitely the shadow of the Tarnished. Single minded, ruthless, and the rallying point of other major characters. She's the perfect inversion for you.
There are also connections between the main game bosses and the DLC NPCs + bosses. Some are more obvious than others. - Radahn: Freyja (former soldier) and Gaius (brother-in-arms) - Malenia: Moore (abandoned child) and Romina (one who chose Rot) - Mohg: Ansbach (former soldier) and Midra (distant lord dedicated to another god, plus Mohg's clone guards the path to the Frenzied Flame) - Morgott: Hornsent (Morgott is the last man standing in Leyndell, Hornsent is the last warrior of his people able to challenge the Demigods) and the Divine Beast Dancing Lion (horned figures guarding the thorns preventing access to a god); in general, Morgott's life would've been a lot different if he'd been born into that civilization (and if his mother hadn't been a victim of their brutal practices, and a thousand other what-if scenarios) - Rykard: Not sure if he has a parallel with any NPCs (maybe Igon but I'm not seeing anything specific), but he's got abundant parallels with Messmer (fiery snake guy, with one being born that way & hating it while the other chose to become that) - Godrick: Thiollier (weak, unorthodox) and BAYLE (guy with a dragon for a hand and extra limbs everywhere vs. dragon missing some limbs, also I hate both of them)
I can see two possible parallels for Leda. The first is D, both zealously follow their code with unwavering certainty. Both seek the wholesale destruction of any that fall outside their view of accepted. Alternatively, Leda may be an echo of the Tharnished themself. Unconnected, unique, and wholly devoted to their goal. Perhaps even a commentary on players who choose endings without thinking. She forges ahead heedless of the morality of any of it, much like players will slaughter npcs without much thought beyond gain
Even if we say that Leda isn't fighting for her own lordship, neither are we. Almost all of our endings revolve around becoming a Lord/Arbiter of a different greater force, with the exception of probably Dung Eater's questline. If Miquella were ANYWHERE in the base game, there would likely have already been a Miquella ending, a "Lord of Love" achievement or something. Leda is the player character if we had that option. And, just like us, she's clawing and fighting to reach her preferred ending. To her, WE are Dark Stalker Kirk rolling around in the mud. We are the pre-final boss to what would be Miquella's war against the Erdtree and the world, just as she was our pre-final boss. She invades, she does her own obscure questlines and even gets confused like we do. She even uses summons to fight us. And side note: I keep thinking about it, but the arena where we fight the Miquella's faithful looks very similar to a scene from the 1979 film "Stalker" by Andrei Tarkovsky. A bit of spoilers for the movie (Though this movie is very esoteric), the three main characters who agreed to travel through the "Zone" together come across a room preceding the "Room of Wishes", the heart of the Zone and the place all three of them were trying to reach. The Guide had laid out the importance of following the Zone's unspoken laws, but the Writer openly and willfully defies them. In a place where the Guide sees as a holy site, the Writer brandishes a gun. We are the Writer in SotET, brandishing the weapon and pointing it squarely at our "guide's" most holy place. Likewise, our Room of Wishes lies on a few stairsteps away, instead of it being the destroyed core of a nuclear reactor, it is a divine gate.
I want to say Leda is us. Primarily because the fight with her mirrors the original idea for the fight against Oscar of Astoria who was mirror of the player.
I think Leda is a foil to...us. A ruthless tarnished warrior willing to do anything to fulfill her goal, even killing her own allies if she sees them as a threat. We may call her a monster, but are we not one in the same?
Also Sir Ansbach saying on his death "Righteous Tarnished, become Elden Lord, not for gods. But for all men." Vs. Gideon wanting gods in control and still doubts you in the end that you cant be elden lord.
I think Radahn is the Tarnished’s Shadow. Both cultivated strength and aspire others wanting them to become their lord. Radahn on the other hand succumbed to his fate, the Tarnished overcome all adversaries and decide the future of the Lands Between.
3:35 incorrect, you can keep him alive by choosing the 3rd option "I don't know", after the final battle talk to him again, he said no one come to his shop anymore except us and thanks us for that, he remain there selling things forever.
I always saw Leda as an inversion of the player character. We're bound by duty whichever ending you're going for and Leda is very much the same even dependent on a chosen god like we are hers is Miquella while we choose ours whether its Marika, Ranni, or the Frenzied Flame. Even her armor feels like a dark reflectionof the iconic "Elite knight" look that so many players default too
Leda and Roderika could work. Leda didn’t care about her “allies”, is very accepting of a Demi God that wishes to remove her individuality, and isn’t afraid to die for that Demi God. Roderika was so deathly afraid of Godrick she couldn’t even go to become one with her men who sacrificed themselves for her but she grieves for them every passing moment.
Also I’d say Igon more aligns with Rogier. Both were deformed and were left unable to walk because of things they admired. Unlike Rogier, Igon continued of fighting until he could no longer move. Whereas Rogier just rotted away on the balcony in the Roundtable Hold.
Leda is a parallel of D. D follows the Greater Will devoutly no matter what in his charge against those that live in death. This an excellent mirror of how Leda acts after Miquella's charm breaks. One of the first things she brings up is that she's going to hunt to down those in the group that don't fully follow or even go against Miquella. Granted this doesn't really track when you try to compare the D hunts down (Fia and those who live in death) vs who Leda hunts down (Hornsent and Ansbach) who mirror Dalios and Gideon. Also that being said Leda doesn't hunt down Thoiller who eventually goes against Miquella just like Ansbach, but not Hornsent who ends up on her side. This could be a mirror of how D doesn't ever go after Rogier despite Rogier wants being pretty opposed to D's, but like I said it the comparison gets shakey after you move on from how devoutly and steadfast they follow their choice of greater power.
I think another pair of opposites that can be considered are Goldmask and Count Ymir. Both are noble seekers of truth that possess great knowledge about the world they inhabit (although only one of them directly shares with us about it). Both seek an answer to a question why the world is twisted and can be helped by player on their quest.Both have distanced themselves from their factions in their search and both consider themselves servants of Greater Will.What makes them different though is the underlying motivation that urges them to seek those answers.All the great revellations Count Ymir is seeking are for a simple and egoistical reason anyone can understand: revive his dead son. On the other hand Goldmasks reasons are completley detached from his own self. He's an ascetic with no attachments trying to find the reason why the Golden Order, the suposed order of good and learned, is turning its followers into agressive zealots (source : Order Healing). At the end, he goes against the one core belief of his order, which I think shows his dedication to greater learnedness and good above all else. tl,dr - Both seek to understand the world and change it : one to fix it, the other to fix himself.
There's another connection. Ymir wanted to become the Finger Mother and Goldmask communicated with the Greater Will like the fingers. I also love the Goldmask / Midra comparison. Both wisdom seekers, Goldmask was free to pursue knowledge while Midra was punished for it; both by the world he lived in and the knowledge he was seeking itself.
I'm gonna make an argument that Leda is a reflection of.... us! The player! She has chosen her cause, she knows the ending she wants and the philosophy she believes is the true meaning, and is willing to use others to get to it much in the same vein that we often lead to the deaths of NPCs because we want certain story content or items.
I think the “All-Hearing” is Gideon, given his armor being covered in eyes and ears. I’m guessing he sent Ensha through the Albinauric village, but followed after everyone fell and talked to Latenna himself. Especially makes sense, considering Ensha never speaks. I also think Leda could be more of a reflection of Corryn in her role trying to bring a new age that repairs the golden order.
Leda parallels Blaid to me, especially with Miquella and Rani as parallels. Both are fiercely loyal, both seek the counsel of others, and in the end both turn on us.
Yura and Igon have a lot of contrast. One, emotionally hunting his targets and warns you to avoid dragons. The other, consumed by emotion and compelled by revenge against a dragon. It seems like Yura's motivation for trying to stop Elonora was akin to love, while Igon is all rage and fear.
*Undying devotion to their ‘Ranni’ figure. *Completely willing to kill any they deem traitorous. *Considers us an ally at first but eventually attempts to kill us at the end of their questline. *both are trapped in a kind of spell which binds them as servant to their ‘Ranni’ figure. Leda may very well be Blaidd’s counterpart.
@@Radahntheconqueror He never attacks you, freely offers warnings about Those Who Live in Death being dangerous, and helps with bosses. He's a bit of a grump with a stick up his ass, but compared to plenty of other characters he's not that bad.
@@RadahntheconquerorI legit never liked Those who live in death , There the only enemies in the game that go out of their way to kill you for no reason at all. You might say they’re protecting The Prince of Death , you know the thing that spread all over the place that you can’t even injure and canonically deathblight you when you play with the corpse too much ( pause )
Leda and tanith share a lot in common, they both follow a Demigod in their attempts to become either a god or a god devouerer. Tanith will send you to fight other tarnished whilst leda will place hits on her comrades. They want very similar things but both of the end goals are a stark contrast of the other. And the way they achieve their goals is also rather different. You could say tanith is more compassionate as she encourages the recusants, and as she cares for rya. Then there is leda who pretty much just thinks of her comrades as potential threats, seeing them as potential obstacles in her way.
I made comparisons between ansbach and gideon but those are the most obvious, I didn’t realize how deep it went with other characters! Incredible video!
There are things that could be argued as shadows all throughout the dlc I think ymir is goldmask's shadow (both saw flaws in the gods but one lost his mind to ambition wheras the other stayed humble), millicent and that npc who invades you and wishes he was messemer (both heavily resemble a demigod but whereas one just naturally resembles a demigod without trying the other actively tries to resemble one. Also the messemer wannabe mainly invades you only helping you out if you make him a spirit summon meanwhile millicent mainly helps you only invading you if you haven't given her the needle yet).
Gideon may be the parallel to ansbach, but he is truly the most similar to the tarnished mc. Aping boss moves, thinking he knows best, and all that. Anyway, its just blatantly untrue that he doesnt stop you from puppeting nepheli, he literally asks you to throw the potion away lol. Why omit that out? And calling him a coward is wierd too, he literally chooses to fight you, someone who has defeated multiple demigods. In the story, you are multiple times stronger than him, something hes fully aware of.
This video is brilliant! For me Leda is a mirror to Blaidd like how you brought up Ranni and Miquella. Both are the devout followers to miquella and they had their own wills tested. Leda with miquellas charm being broken and Blaidd with his being forced to follow the greater will. One succumbed to it and retaliated against the one he swore allegiance too and the other was wholly unaffected even if they realized they had been charmed.
The Ensha/Dryleaf Dane connection works really well, since in addition to being silent, their only form of communication is through a single gesture (and combat).
Leda and Melina seem like shadows/opposites of each other. - Both will see you before you enter the first main areas of their portion of the game. Melina walks upon the Tarnished with Torrent before they enter Limgrave, and Leda will directly talk with the Tarnished before they enter the SotET DLC area The Gravesite plain, with both instances of these encounters having the player leaving a mausoleum to enter the respective "Grave" open area. - Melina is incorporeal, almost like a ghost with burnt skin, who makes an accord with the Tarnished to act as a pseudo Maiden in service to us while using our body as a vessel to be able to get close to the Erdtree, whereas Leda is a Tarnished much like us with body intact, smooth skinned, and able to accomplish her goals without assistance of a vessel. - Melina wishes to aid the Tarnished in destroying The Erdtree and Golden Order in hopes of rekindling a new age with the Tarnished becoming the new Elden Lord with any of these ages being of the Tarnished's choices (sans the Lord of Frenzy), whereas Leda is assisting the player with but one outcome in hand - to make Miquella's new age become a reality and nothing more, with the Tarnished being neither lord, consort, nor having any choice in outcome. - Melina will come to battle with Morgott to help the Tarnished remove him as a barrier from their goal, whereas Leda becomes a barrier to the Tarnished while going to battle with those who stand with her for their goal. - Melina will swear an oath to hunt down the Tarnished should they choose The Lord of Frenzy ending with a promise of Destined Death almost like she is now a Tarnished, whereas it can be speculated that if the Tarnished where to help Miquella and Radahn bring in the new age whether through choice or bewitching, Leda would forever become a companion of the Tarnished almost akin to a Maiden in a ironic twist that the Tarnished would no longer be Maidenless (sans those who choose Ranni of course).
Something I’ve thought about a lot that I’ve rarely seen discussed elsewhere is that everything about the land of shadow, not just the characters are like the jungian reflections of things from the lands between. Not only that, but I also believe that many aspects of it could be read as representative of miquella’s personal worldview and opinions of certain characters. Messmer for example has some strange parallels to Rykard, both having a flaming snake motif, but where rykard uses subterfuge messmer is more overt with his plans. Metyr could also be read as a more monstrous idea of the Two Fingers, instead of being a famously worshipped and favored divine entity, being a skulking horror that few know of, seemingly pulling all the strings from someplace unknown. That’s just my takeaway at least
D and Freyja both cover their faces but for opposite reasons. D uses his to honor his brother and show his pride, and Freyja uses it to cover her shamed scarlet rot.
I dunno why this isn't discussed more, probably one of the most interesting observations, even if it's just purely on the merit of elden ring's poetic writing
I think Leda is the antithesis of bogart. Leda seeks purpose Bogart seeks independence Leda betrays you and has trust issues Bogart has trust issues but sees you as a friend and fishes for you
This is actually a pretty cool! It makes more sense if you look at the land of shadow a reflection of everything we see in the lands between. The Scadutree is flowing with sap and real while the Erdtree is an illusion and no longer functional, Horns and the crucible being revered in the land of shadow while in the lands between it is a curse Also both Hornsent and Diallos being potentates one causing suffering in jars while one creating peace with jars is another comparison.
I think Leda might be a counter to Bernahl. Leda devotes her life to serving Miquella while Bernahl serves Rykard. They never stray from their mission. Although Bernahl does not prevent you from fighting Rykard because that is the path of the Recucant. He does try to kill you in Farum Azula because you strayed the Recucant path and are attempting to become Elden Lord. like Leda tries to stop you from trying to challenge Miquella.
Call it a cop-out but I honestly feel like the closest parallel to Leda is the Tarnished themselves. Both end up leaders, both end up devoting themselves to an Empyrean or God at the end of the day, and both end up deciding the fates of others as often as not. But while the Tarnished is often genuinely trying to help and the deaths around him are the result of a failure to save them due to circumstances outside their control, Leda is a murdering bastard, and hers is a failure to murder others, because as much as she has many of the elements of a main character, she isn't one.
Is it just me, or was isnt it obvious Leda is a reflection of Roderika? Both were leaders of people, but when faced with doubt, Roderika loses her way, even when those who support her never wavered, and she never stops thinking about their sacrifices for her. Where Leda, when faced with doubt, doubles down, reverts to her paranoia. She begins picking off her own hand herself, and doesn't care what she asks of them, or if it's even too much.
Icon could be a reflection of Rogier. Both go on life threatening journeys to fulfill their purpose, Rogier to learn about those who live in death and Godwyn and Igon to get revenge on Bayle. And both end up losing the use of their legs at the hands of their goal, Igon from Bayle and Rogier from Godwyn’s corpse
Just some things about Gideon and Ansbach: -Most of this is based around this theory that Radagon, unlike Marika, is trying to prevent the coming of a new Elden Lord. -If we take the description of Gideon's armor, saying he "glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika", litterally. Though, considering his change in plans he likely "read" the wishes Radagon instead. This could work as another contrast with Ansbach. Gideon dies carrying out the will of Radagon, Ansbach unwillingly served Miquella for a time but dies (regardless of how) following his true convictions. -Both of them act to prevent the coming of a new age. [-Also while yes, he doesn't directly prevent you from "poisoning" Nephelli, which he might be unable to considering the non-agression rule, he does still offer to dispose of the potion for you, explaining that Seluvis wouldn't suspect foul play. And he seems to be happy if she becomes the ruler of Limgrave.]
This DLC has a o lot of opossites: Erdtree obviuos, relanna/renalla, scadutree avatar/erdtre avatar, shadow altus/plato altus, Placisdussax/ Bayle, Mesmer/various demigods (like malenia), kindling that little shadow tree/ kindling the erdtree, Romina/Malenia, Miquella/Marika (and St. Trina), the jars of the shadow land/jars of the land betwenn, etc...
I thought of diallos when Leda came up spoilers ahead for Diallos quest line… as Leda kills numerous former allies if she has a suspicion of them betraying Miquella holding loyalty above all Diallos can’t seem to find loyalty in anyone he swears to end the recusents after the death of his friend but the joins them but can’t bring himself to kill another tarnished so he runs and goes to jarburg where he shows his first act of loyalty protecting those he could from poachers but dying happily in the process
This one also feels like a bit of a reach, but also not-Igon and Roderika have some fun parallels. You both meet them when they’re sitting/laying on the ground, bemoaning their fates, and after talking to them they get a little more resolve and decide to move forward. “Remember yourself as you once were” vs her deciding she should go to the Roundtable Hold and make something of herself. Roderika stays with you even as the Hold burns, helping you summon spirits, whereas Igon begs you to summon his own spirit in a fight against a fiery boss. Maybe these are just surface level connections but I really like how they mirror each other with two entirely opposite kinds of courage and dedication, one learned and very subtle and patient and one driven by vengeance and some WILD stubbornness.
I feel like Leda would mirror us the most, the nameless Tarnished that pushes towards our lordship. She's mad enough to try and kill *anyone* that may be in her way, eager to please the target of her obsessions, and she is the only one to be there to invite us to the shadowlands. She shares our drive to push towards our ends, she shares our bloodlust (we literally kill anything that doesn't either simply run from us, or tries to talk first), the only difference is that she, unlike us, doesn't have the will to continue after each and every death. Sure, she doesn't give up after the first one, but she is still crushed under the endless onslaught of our will in her boss battle. She may win a few times, but even she has a limit. She already has the finishline set down, her lord has already technically won, but for us? We are pushing and pushing to reach the climax. Rahdahn. She is simply our last rival before we reach our own finishline. At least, that is my idea here.
Great catch on this! You could also say Thiollier is a "simp" and Fia is the "simp'd for" 😅 Leda reminds me of an inverse of melina or something, being that they are sources of info and guide you to the god they are challenging or followers of.
I guess the shadow of the Tarnished of No Renown is Radahn, both returned from death, both potential Lords and Consorts. But one is free to choose their fate and path while the other is bound and enslaved despite their might.
Leda is supposed to be a mirror of us. She fights with direction and someone elses guidance. We start our journey without direction, guided only by grace and the ghost of melina. We fight to ascend, she fights to serve.
I'd think Ymir more reflects Gold Mask. Gold Mask geos around 3 places to figure out the golden order. Ymir sends you to 3 places to figure out the fingers.
Ansbach is definitely my Solaire in the Elden Ring universe. Heck, he even feels like the embodiment of the classic wise old mentor figure of the fantasy genre. Obi-Wan, Gandalf, Dumbledore, Merlin, etc. And before anyone argues that unlike the others, Ansbach is afraid of fighting, just remember the word of Ned Stark: Being afraid is the best time to be brave.
Raykard to Mesmer anyone? Also, Ymir to Tanith along with her protector to the Knight of Night. Another contrast in general is you get physic stuff in shadow realm from walking pyre giants, while in Lands Between, you get it from wood people.
Have you thought about Leda being Blaidd's parallel? As a follower of Rani vs Miquella, one who helps us in our journey but end up in odds with, but in a different way? Leda having her undying devotion while Blaidd being turned against Rani by the greater will.
Needle knight leda could be either a mirror of hugh. A prisoner to a gods will, but instead of being forced to do their bidding, Leda willingly follows, imprisoning herself into Miquella's service, not caring for her own out come, just the outcome of their lord and master as hugh is forced to craft a weapon that can kill a god, aka killing queen Marika/Radagon/the Elden Beast.
You know what I just realized, Igon has a counterpart as well, specifically that one spectral soldier in manor who tells you to slay Rykard with the Serpent Hunter using his final breath, whereas Igon uses his last breath to slay Bayle. Perhaps Hyetta/Irina are a parallel to Florissax in which they both serve a lord in which they both perish, yet you can save Florissax by becoming her new lord.
I think Leda is a reflection of us. The Tarnished will do anything that is asked of him, just as she is easy to manipulate. She does anything and everything for Miquella, believing his vision to be the best for the Lands Between, just as most players are hellbent on Ranni's ending or some other like Fia's and on the other side of the coin: She is wholly devoted to another, while the Tarnished fights for themselves, their own ambition, if Miquella is the opposite to Ranni, seeking subjugation while Ranni seeks freedom, Leda is the willing slave to our Tarnished's rebellious free man.
Hi!😊There are clearly way more comparisons than I put thought into thanks to comments. It's also becoming clear that even story beats like an NPC confronting you near the end are being mirrored! I think it's also possible to mirror multiple people. Miquella parallels and also opposites both Ranni and Marika in many ways. You guys have some awesome ideas. I feel dumb for not calling attention to Midra / Goldmask lol.
There are becoming too many comments to keep up with so I might stop here. I'll pop in every now and again.
I appreciate the support! ♥ I probably won't be making another ER video like this unless I feel like I can offer something unique. There's already so many great lore experts and literary analysts out there pining over it. I just post whatever I'm interested in at that moment. Stick around if you like indie games especially!
Edit: REMEMBER TO CHECK OUT NEOJETTY!! THEIR DOCUMENTATION OF NPCS HAS SUCH NICE ANGLES
Something else I find kinda funny in hindsight when it comes to Gideon and Ansbach, is that Gideon refers to Mohg as a delusional maniac who wasn’t going to amount to much. Yet, Mohg’s most loyal servant and commander of his Pureblood Knights, ends up being the most level-headed and wise character in the entire fucking game (besides Turtle Pope of course, but they’re pretty close)
When i saw ansbach i knew mohg was one of the most charismatic and smart characters of the game. Beacuse the average serial killer would never just convince someone so wise and humble to his cause.
Hell, his cult may actually hold a very good cause. Considering what the formless mother does in the land of shadow (they are still killers don't get me wrong)
@@Homem_Duplo-hq4oh It makes me really want to know more about Mohg's old ideals and how he lived.
Gideon be the type of guy to still believe the Mohglester allegations even post DLC
Ansbach is polite and genuinely one of my favorite characters, but once Miquella’s charm is broken he’s far from level-headed. Sure he doesn’t fall as far as Leda, but you should read the description of his chestplate which explicitly describes him as illogical.
@@neurotypicalkirby3991 i read it and you're right. But it still implies a high level of self-knowledge. Given he knew about his situation
Even the final lines of Gideon and Ansbach parallel each other. Gideon says a Tarnished can't be lord and man can't kill god. Meanwhile Ansbach encourages us to become "a lord not for gods, but for men."
hard, that's so hard
@@bigfreakinfroggod, I’m so hard
ansbach is my favourite NPC
@@bigfreakinfrogkeep it in your pants
common Ansbach W
Leda could be an inversion of Roderika. Roderika loved her companions but lost all of them. Leda is surrounded by companions but feels nothing for them and would even betray and try to kill them without a second thought. Roderika was lost, left without purpose until you come along and gives her a new one. Leda always has her one unshakable purpose. Even when Miquella's spell on her breaks, her purpose remains the same, unchanged unshaken. But then again I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass.
This, i was thinking blaidd but this more spot on
Maybe D could be another option, but I'm focusing only on his very narrow dogmatic purpose.
Oooh I hadn't thought of her, not bad! I was thinking Melina lol
I think you're spot on.
Well you shit is quality
Why not Thiollier and Rogier being parallels?
The attitudes are opposites from each other: With Rogier being confident and Thiollier being timid.
Thiollier essentially perpetually waiting to be able to see St. Trina until the Greatrune was broken. Rogier was actively looking for ways to help TWLID by seeking answers until he got affected by the corpse under Stormveil.
Rogier slowly falling asleep during his questline up to his death. Thiollier essentially "waking up" after the duel with you and went off to help you out for the final couple of battles.
Rogier helping you out at the beginning of your journey, Thiollier helping you out at the end of the DLC.
I could also see Thiollier having parallels to Varre.
Glad someone else pointed this out. I’d also like to add that they both find themselves enraptured by a woman and what they represent; Rogier to Fia and the aspect of Death, and Thiollier to St Trina and the aspect of Eternal Sleep. Both represent a release from the burden of life.
Rogier fights alongside you against Margit but ultimately fights against you for Fia, and Thiollier fights against you when you reach St Trina but comes to fight by your side in Enir Ilim.
Perhaps there’s also a connection in Rogier once being close friends with D but eventually comes to side with Fia, while Thiollier befriends you but quickly changes his tune when St Trina starts talking to you.
Someone said Gold Mask is the opposite of Midra.
could totally see that!
That fits way better
This is a pretty sound theory, Goldmask is seemingly a very respected sage for the Golden order, allowing him the freedom to contemplate and meditate to reach enlightenment and uncover it's truths with the player's help, Midra, by contrast, was heavily persecuted for his research into the Frenzy, and this persecution and pain eventually causes him to break, and in that darkness arise as the Lord of Frenzied Flame, only once the player comes in to kill him. Plus, both guys are tall and slender, nearly naked except for their tattered robes, with Goldmask's sun shaped mask making for a perfect parallel to Midra's new flaming head of frenzy, hell they even hit the same pose
@@ixiahj
Yeah this is the take, 100%.
They both have Suns for heads.
Midra is a sage for resisting his God and their will, which he is rejected for and ultimately gives into.
Goldmask is a sage for following his God's order, devoutly, for which his followers reject him, and he ultimately rejects his God.
@tonylawson2222 i agree with this except i don't think goldmask "rejects" his god. He just acknowledges the fallibility of the golden order and seeks to repair and improve what was broken.
leda might be our shadow, as we follow the "grace" of the greater will; while she follows miquella
this is exactly what ithought when i played the dlc
Yeah, if anything Leda is kind of like the parallel to Blaidd of sorts, that was my first thought
And she is more than willing to kill those who get in her way during her questline, just like the Tarnished is towards those who stand in their way towards reaching lordship
Perhaps Leda *should have been* our shadow, but was swayed by miquella instead, and discarded her Finger Maiden Fillet for armor.
*spoiler for the endboss* I think our shadow is Radahn. We want to kill a god, he protects it. We keep our mind and resist miquella's charm, he doesn't. we keep our horse, he doesn't :(
Leda is definitely the counterpart to us, the player. Murderhobo, Devotion to a demigod child of Marika, Having no hesitation to kill one's close allies to see the ultimate task through.
Also Tarnished like us
ya i think so as well, esp given that fight at the end is you and your homies vs her and hers
It has to be the case. Being that the literal end fight between You and anything other than the final boss of the game itself is you versus her and her party of fellow NPCs she's recruited through her adventure then I don't know who else would be a better mirror. I mean she literally has her cooperators fighting our cooperators Aunt also the fact that none of her cooperators and only some of ours have the golden sheen of being a cooperator. The implication almost being that this is like a collective world. Like she is so much our equal in how she is basically just us on a different journey that when we come together to fight it's not even like we're invading her or she's invading us it's more akin to like finding solaire just vibing everywhere, the timelines are converging, shit's going wacky, you are fighting your other self in the most literal sense you can other than it just creating an equal to you. She is your spiritual second. You're negative double. It's fucking wild honestly
Leda is the shadow of Chorynn to me. They are both feverent zealots. The difference is that Leda never abandons her idol, while Chorynn can't accept his in the end.
I can see it.
Imagine a Standoff between Corhyn and Leda, bloody hell, let the more maniacal Zealot win
it´s probably going to be Leda since Corhyn is somewhat dull and does not show too much fighting prowess but still
I'll never find Coryhn any form of anything other than hilariously stupid because like bro's a scholar and then when he learns something new about his religion the only logic he can put into it is "ah yes this is wrong because it wasn't written about before".
Like bro literally saw that new information was being found out about something through research and his only logic was that that must be false because it wasn't the case before meaning that it can't be the case ever. He's literally just modern-day Christian nationalists
I like this one best by far!
Corhynn is the one unaccounted for npc warrior in the roundtable that I can think of who also leaves the roundtable (Roderika doesn't feel like any of these others in that all she never leaves the roundtable once she arrives.)
They are both devout zealots, and in the end their zealotry leads them to deep suspicion and murder. The difference is that Leda kills anyone who she thinks is a threat to her master (Miquella)...
...whereas Corhynn KILLS HIS MASTER (Goldmask) thinking of him as the threat to the Golden Order.
i like how gideon pretends to be a good person working for the "holy" round table of the golden order but ultimately is horrible. while ansbach works for an "evil" lord and god but is a good man
Ansbach really makes me wanna re-read everything on Mohg.
Rodahn is the Gigachad. Most wholesome demigod.
Mohg , abandoned by his family, set his eyes on a Dynasty of his own named after himself and his younger bro Godwyn- Mohgwyn.
Miquela used both these well natured brothers for his own selfishness.
I feel like people are forgetting the part where Mohg founded the Bloody Fingers, killers of little concience, or are we supposed to assume Miquella somehow manipulated Mohg into doing that aswell?
All I'm saying is; Ansbach has ran an ingredible campaing to boost his Lord's public image, but he's still a madman trying to make the world like the fetid bloodswamps around his Mohgwyn Dynasty.
@@wispfire2545 and Rodahn's redmains slaughtered birds, dogs and rot boys in Caelid.
Both Rodahn and Mohg have people willingly follow them despite their bloodshed.
. Miquela forces allegiance.
@@wispfire2545 do we know if the bloody fingers were before or after miquella bewitched him? Genuinely asking
Just an FYI Moore does have a happy ending. Simply answer I don't know and proceed. When you've dealt with Leda and co he should still be where he was alive and well pledging his friendship to you. Or if you've never interacted with him prior he'll simply focus on his relationship with his brood as that will help him to keep going. He doesn't actually have to die, and I think saying the I don't know answer is for the best as he actually thinks for himself here rather than rely on you to provide him an answer.
That is an amazing bit of info I didn't know, thank you.
And he doesn’t help Leda near the end of the dlc??
@@edd4131 he doesn't appear in the fight at all if you choose "I don't know". When I did the fight, the only followers that ended up fighting me were Leda and Dane.
Same, this is what I did. It’s great that he finds happiness. Remembers me of Bok… there’s a narrow pathway, but it’s there
@@edd4131 He won't so it's all good unless you were hellbent over his armor.
Fun theory video, wanted to comment on Moore and his story. Moore is not obsessed with the forager brood. Rather, he IS the forager brood. They are his kin in the literal sense, he is a forager brood inside of a suit of armor, which completely recontextualizes his character. He isn't unintelligent, rather he's exceptionally intelligent for his kind as he can communicate with the tarnished with words. And I've seen another comment mentioning how he doesn't have to die, which is true. If we answer with "I Don't Know" he won't partake in the arena fight and will remain alive, which seems incredibly fitting because many times we aren't comfortable with accepting that we don't know something, as if it makes us less capable, but this acceptance is what allows Moore to find peace and make his own decision. Sure he may be lonely, but he can continue living. Excellent work, peace and love!
Like to add that the forager brood and pests are not unintelligent: the descriptions on their spears say they have an apparent but incomprehensible keen intellect. Moore's exceptionalness comes from his ability to communicate and mingle with humans
@mika9578 thank you for adding this! I didn't mean to imply that the brood was unintelligent, just that at first glance, one might assume that Moore is a bit of a bluntstone lol not sure if my comment came off that way but can totally see how that may be possible, wonderful point to add either way 🍻
@@mika9578Makes me wonder about Gowry. I guess he isn't actually forager brood and just possesses one. But he does talk like he is part of them, so I am not sure.
Is he directly confirmed to be a forager brood himself? He has unique facial data under his armor so he appears to be quite normal. I was always under the assumption he's more like Tarzan of the Rot, or another Aeonia bloom baby like Millicent and her sisters.
@kikrinman1450 I genuinely don't know what's going on with my comments, and so again I apologize if the answer to your question is here 3 or 4 times, I just can't see any of my own responses for some reason and didn't want to leave you hangin lol there is confirmation that Moore was a pest follower of Malenia on the official bandai namco website, my best guess for the human character model is they needed a body inside of the suit of armor that wouldn't encounter clipping or technical issues. I hope this comment is visible and hope you have a great week!
The way I like to compare Ranni and Miquella is that Ranni wishes to protect the world from the folly of the gods while Miquella wants to protect the world from the folly of man
Ansbach might have been the only one fighting for Mohg’s dignity. And I respect him for that.
Varre also is, but not on the battlefield.
@@deepism Varre serves mohg as he is, not as he was, so i think Ansbach gets the gold medal.
@@lucieeatssnekkers2756 Ansbach definitely does. But Varre is also very loyal and fulfills a vital role for the Mohgywn dynasty.
Also the All Hearing Brute is Gideon. Hence why his armor is covered in ears.
Woops, that makes more sense. I just couldn't see Gideon getting up to do something himself so I immediately thought of Ensha when Latenna said a name.
@@bigfreakinfrogprobably a leader of sorts
I feel like if I had to force a comparison between Leda and a Roundtable member, I think D would be a good fit. Apart from being two armored Greatsword wielders that are extremely devoted to their cause, D always struck me as a “NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION” type of guy.
Like, from the way he speaks of Those Who Live in Death, to the way Rogier expresses how pissed D would be with him were him to find out Rogier’s opinions on the undead, I always got the impression that he could very easily snap and kill either Fia or Rogier if he were to find out. He’s also EXTREMELY callous about exterminating the undead, almost as much as Leda is about those she thinks could betray Miquella.
The thing being that well… he never does get to do any of that. Fia kills him before he ever gets to really do anything. And honestly, at least to me, it’s never really made clear whether he suspects either Fia or Rogier, hell from the way he speaks of Rogier after he’s hit with deathblight, you can see he pities him, as a long time comrade that can’t stomach seeing an old friend slowly rot to death.
Leda on the other hand, makes her suspicions of others very clear, and very much gets to act on those suspicions even if she doesn’t always succeed (or succeed at all for that matter). However in a similar way to D, she never seems to express any anger or hatred for her own comrades, even as she’s actively hunting them down. In her mind, she’s just doing what she deems necessary in the name of her lord, and as such the language she uses reflects that.
Now I don’t think it’s a perfect fit, but I do think it’s interesting how both groups have a feverishly devoted holy knight that’s willing to do some fucked up shit in the name of their holy cause. It’s just that Leda demonstrates how dangerous D could’ve been had he known better.
I think that's a closer comparison than what I gave to be fair. I wonder if they originally intended for characters to have a much more direct comparison because I think Ansbach and Moore have very clear opposites in the base game.
@@bigfreakinfrogI have the feeling that the parallels are more so a framework or reference from which they decided to make the new NPCs, as opposed to something they strictly stuck to per say. This probably resulted in some parallels being more clear cut than others, as to not completely restrict themselves when making this new cast.
We also have to remember that the Roundtable Hold is not a static bunch, new members come as others leave to then never return, so I wouldn’t worry if the parallels don’t fit perfectly, cause I feel like there’s enough to drive in the point that Miquella’s Followers are very much the opposite of the Roundtable Hold.
Hell, this can be seen even if we look at them as a collective, cause Miquella’s Followers are far more active players in the narrative, even if most of them end up as foes in the end. By comparison, the members of the Hold are more so using the place as refuge from the outside world, as stated by Gideon himself. Most of them, if any, can no longer see the guidance of Grace, and as such they just sort of stick to their own matters as opposed to fighting the Shardbearers and seeking Lordship. Miquella’s bunch is far from united in the end, but even then they’re very much present when the time comes. Be it individually or as a collective, Miquella’s Followers are what the Roundtable never manages to be.
But yeah overall, I loved this analysis. The NPCs surprisingly ended up being my favorite part of the SOTE’s narrative, and beyond the Ansbach/Gideon parallels, it never occurred to me that it went this deep as far as opposites went. It definitely gave me a new appreciation a story I already adored.
@@bigfreakinfrogHomey, she's Roderika if anyone. Think about Roderika's backstory, from when you first met her.. before she met you. For example Roderika is intensely loyal to her friends and allies even though she's a coward who lacks confidence. Leda has no loyalty whatsoever to anyone except her God. Leda is a combatant, Roderika is a spiritualist. Roderika inspired loyalty, Leda absolutely does not.
But by the same token their parallels are astonishing. All of the allies they traveled with to accomplish their goals die. Seriously, there's only two people in the whole game defined by who they travel with.
Yeah the D twins are insane, the speech Devin gives to Godwyn after he kills Fia is pure unadulterated zealotry. It's neat because Darian is similar to Leda before the charm breaks, welcoming and asks you to join him, but Devin just straight up murders anyone that aligns themselves with the dead
@@skcasuality7472 Hell yeah. Didn't think about it from an overall narrative perspective but they are much more active. For some reason that makes looking at all NPCs in the game more satisfying for me.
Diallos and Hornsent contrast each other, so well, you're right on that! Both in their own ways yearn to saciate their bloodlust either to prove oneself to their family or to avenge them both have nearly opposite endings and aswell are both being potentates
That was what made me decide to make this video. I was kinda stumped with Hornsent until I thought of revenge as the thread.
The potentate thing really seals it for me
I think another great link is that while diallos embraces the role of potentate later in his quest, its heavily hinted that hornsent has long renounced his role as potentate (discussed in the greater potentate cookbooks description) and has taken up the garbs of the revenger.
Some sort of juxtaposition: Freya will fight for radahn, even after his resurrection as a consort, but Jerren is willing to leave radahn after he fulfilled his promises to him. granting him a warrior's death.
(Note: I also believe that Jerren may not have known that radahn was going to be resurrected but he most likely wouldn't re-join radahn's forces even if he knew he was alive again due to his ""wandering/Tumble weed-like"" nature and his relation to sellen and her questline and his promise to ""rid caria"" of it's resident witch...)
One Part of me just wants to grab Sir Gideon Ofnir by one of his many ears, drag him to the Land of Shadow, show him around, put him at a table with Ansbach, all just to in the end whisper in his ear: "Didn´t know about all this, now did ya, ey Mister Allknowing?"
Unfortunately that would be very cheap gocha moment because Gideon actively pays you for information; he WANTS to become All-Knowing, not claims that he already is
@@exploertm8738 still, the look on his face after learning what became of Miquella must still be priceless
@@umukzusgelos4834 I wish there was secret ending style thing when if you killed Miquella Gideon learns of it and instead of fighting you he appears as summon in fights against Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast and only THEN challenges you for the title of Elden Lord (or doesnt).
My guy knew exactly how dangerous Tarnished is and still chose to confront us, Ofnir absolutely has "Fuck it we ball" dawg in him, so if he learns "Oh shit, a man CAN kill a god" this might be enough to convince him take up the arms.
Some more comparisons of Alexander and Igon that I noticed.
Both become crippled (in a sense) after a fight against a terrifying enemy.
Alexander becomes cracked and generally more cowardly and Igon loses a leg and becomes manic.
Both also use the player tarnished as their motivation to overcome their fear.
Alexander, inspired by the tarnished's victory over Radahn, seeks to temper himself before succumbing to an honorable death.
Meanwhile Igon, inspired by the Tarnished's victory over the jagged peak dragons, takes up his bow once again and dies as a proud drake knight.
I think that Leda is like a shadow of Hewg. Both cursed to follow their quest (crafting a weapon to kill a God vs devotion to Miquella) but neither really care about that, they just fully devote themselves to their quest. To them, there is no other path. Even after Hewg's chain is broken and after Miquella's charm is shattered both Hewg and Leda still tread that same path of total devotion.
The inversion, I think, is their attitude towards allies. For Hewg, that is Roderika. Hewg doesn't gatekeep any of his knowledge or his friendship with her; rather he feels that HE isn't worthy of her allying herself with him. Leda is the opposite. She feels that others are not worthy of Miquella's love and will take any excuse to exclude them (violently).
Great vid btw :)
That's a cool take. I love Hewg so much.
Tbh that sounds more like Messmer than Leda
Leda might be a shadow of Millicent? Miquella/Melania. Leda is devoted to Miquella and Millicent rejects miquella('s needle). They both take long journeys to follow a demi god. They both kill their peers/sisters. The tarnished can betray both of them. They're both manipulated? Leda sacrifices others while Millicent sacrifices herself
Leda is fine with Miquella contorting her into whatever image he sees fit while Millicent would rather die than become something she is not
Woah that's pretty good. I'm into it.
What if Leda is the contrast to Blaidd. Both follow their master without questions. Both given undying loyalty to their master. Both attacked us Tarnished at the end of their quest while Blaidd doing so due to the curse put upon him that driving him insane, despite that he still think about protecting Ranni. Leda trying to kill us because she is the loyalty follower to a fault, as it's imply in her item description that she may killed all her fellow Needle Knight Order because she suspect everyone of them to betray Miquella.
Leda is the exact opposite of Roderika. In personality, dialogue, goals, purpose.
I haven't heard that one, but it's pretty cool considering Ranni opposites Miquella.
@@Mr.Viciousmultiple things can be true 😉
Leda being a shadow of the tarnished did come to mind, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. The only other comparison I see is with Blaidd, for roughly the same justification.
amazing video, you're 100% onto something real. I'd also offer Yura x Igon.
We can find similitudes between Leda and and several base game characters (Corhin, D and Malenia are all very devoted to something or someone), but I think she is the foil -or the shadow- of Roderika. Both characters are a conversation about comraderie, bonds and purpose: Roderika loved her companions and they loved her back. They fought and died for her and, even in death, that love and care continues. Leda's group is held together by a spell. Roderika was purposeless, she embarked on the quest to follow grace because that was a path that was decided for her, whereas Leda was an Oathseeker that found herself a purpose to devout herself to. Roderika thrives when forms bonds with others: her comrades give her the will to keep living and find a new purpose, her relationship with both Hugh and the player help her discover her calling as spirit tuner and she pays your help in kind, becoming an ally that will support you in your quest to kill a god. Leda puts her objectives before anyone, her relationships are tenuous and exist out of interest, she learns nothing through her voyage, she doesn't change: charm or not, her objective remains the same. She opposes you for trying to slay a god.
It seems to me like Leda is almost a mirror of Melina. She’s absolutely devoted to seeing her god rise to power, willing to even sacrifice herself to ensure that their new order comes to pass, but unlike Melina she does not so much support Miquella directly (as Melina does us by leveling us up and providing us counsel) as she does cut down all those she sees as threats to his ascension.
Maybe Leda's a shadow of Seluvis? He fakes loyalty to Ranni while plotting to subvert her, while Leda is purely loyal to Miquella. She confronts you directly alongside allies while Seluvis operates entirely through puppets. Where Seluvis' information is actually helpful when progressing Ranni's objectives, Leda's an afterthought who's simply chasing Miquella's discarded pieces and has no role in his actual ascension. Leda's also placed in opposition to Ansbach, which could mirror Seluvis' falling out with Gideon
Leda is definitely the shadow of the Tarnished. Single minded, ruthless, and the rallying point of other major characters. She's the perfect inversion for you.
There are also connections between the main game bosses and the DLC NPCs + bosses. Some are more obvious than others.
- Radahn: Freyja (former soldier) and Gaius (brother-in-arms)
- Malenia: Moore (abandoned child) and Romina (one who chose Rot)
- Mohg: Ansbach (former soldier) and Midra (distant lord dedicated to another god, plus Mohg's clone guards the path to the Frenzied Flame)
- Morgott: Hornsent (Morgott is the last man standing in Leyndell, Hornsent is the last warrior of his people able to challenge the Demigods) and the Divine Beast Dancing Lion (horned figures guarding the thorns preventing access to a god); in general, Morgott's life would've been a lot different if he'd been born into that civilization (and if his mother hadn't been a victim of their brutal practices, and a thousand other what-if scenarios)
- Rykard: Not sure if he has a parallel with any NPCs (maybe Igon but I'm not seeing anything specific), but he's got abundant parallels with Messmer (fiery snake guy, with one being born that way & hating it while the other chose to become that)
- Godrick: Thiollier (weak, unorthodox) and BAYLE (guy with a dragon for a hand and extra limbs everywhere vs. dragon missing some limbs, also I hate both of them)
I can see two possible parallels for Leda. The first is D, both zealously follow their code with unwavering certainty. Both seek the wholesale destruction of any that fall outside their view of accepted. Alternatively, Leda may be an echo of the Tharnished themself. Unconnected, unique, and wholly devoted to their goal. Perhaps even a commentary on players who choose endings without thinking. She forges ahead heedless of the morality of any of it, much like players will slaughter npcs without much thought beyond gain
Awesome vid. Thought you'd compare Gideon and Leda cause they both "betray us" in the end haha but Ansbach is a better comparison for sure haha
Even if we say that Leda isn't fighting for her own lordship, neither are we. Almost all of our endings revolve around becoming a Lord/Arbiter of a different greater force, with the exception of probably Dung Eater's questline. If Miquella were ANYWHERE in the base game, there would likely have already been a Miquella ending, a "Lord of Love" achievement or something. Leda is the player character if we had that option.
And, just like us, she's clawing and fighting to reach her preferred ending. To her, WE are Dark Stalker Kirk rolling around in the mud. We are the pre-final boss to what would be Miquella's war against the Erdtree and the world, just as she was our pre-final boss. She invades, she does her own obscure questlines and even gets confused like we do. She even uses summons to fight us.
And side note: I keep thinking about it, but the arena where we fight the Miquella's faithful looks very similar to a scene from the 1979 film "Stalker" by Andrei Tarkovsky. A bit of spoilers for the movie (Though this movie is very esoteric), the three main characters who agreed to travel through the "Zone" together come across a room preceding the "Room of Wishes", the heart of the Zone and the place all three of them were trying to reach. The Guide had laid out the importance of following the Zone's unspoken laws, but the Writer openly and willfully defies them. In a place where the Guide sees as a holy site, the Writer brandishes a gun.
We are the Writer in SotET, brandishing the weapon and pointing it squarely at our "guide's" most holy place. Likewise, our Room of Wishes lies on a few stairsteps away, instead of it being the destroyed core of a nuclear reactor, it is a divine gate.
I want to say Leda is us. Primarily because the fight with her mirrors the original idea for the fight against Oscar of Astoria who was mirror of the player.
Leda is Roderika. Take everything Roderika does and reverse it. Even down to individual lines of dialogue.
I can totally see it.
Damn good video surprised this isn’t at 70k yet
maybe too ambitious 😅 but ty ❤
I think Leda is a foil to...us. A ruthless tarnished warrior willing to do anything to fulfill her goal, even killing her own allies if she sees them as a threat.
We may call her a monster, but are we not one in the same?
Also Sir Ansbach saying on his death "Righteous Tarnished, become Elden Lord, not for gods. But for all men." Vs. Gideon wanting gods in control and still doubts you in the end that you cant be elden lord.
I think Radahn is the Tarnished’s Shadow. Both cultivated strength and aspire others wanting them to become their lord. Radahn on the other hand succumbed to his fate, the Tarnished overcome all adversaries and decide the future of the Lands Between.
Leda rebels greater will for Miquella. Blaidd rebels greater will for Ranni.
I like that one.
3:35 incorrect, you can keep him alive by choosing the 3rd option "I don't know", after the final battle talk to him again, he said no one come to his shop anymore except us and thanks us for that, he remain there selling things forever.
I always saw Leda as an inversion of the player character. We're bound by duty whichever ending you're going for and Leda is very much the same even dependent on a chosen god like we are hers is Miquella while we choose ours whether its Marika, Ranni, or the Frenzied Flame.
Even her armor feels like a dark reflectionof the iconic "Elite knight" look that so many players default too
I kept saying Ansbach was everything Gideon pretended to be and his opposite but I never made the connection that the others were reflections too.
i thought dane was like corin or whatever the priest guy was called, cuz dane says a lot with no words and corin says nothing with lots of word
About Leda, I would put her as the players mirror with your analogy.
Of everyone, she treats YOU as a peer.
Ainsbach and the rest she treats as tools.
Leda is a reflection of us we fight and kill everyone and everything for Ranny she fight and kill for Miquella
leda def feels like our parralel here, she seems to be our complete opposite taking out anything in her way much like how we do on our path.
Leda and Roderika could work.
Leda didn’t care about her “allies”, is very accepting of a Demi God that wishes to remove her individuality, and isn’t afraid to die for that Demi God.
Roderika was so deathly afraid of Godrick she couldn’t even go to become one with her men who sacrificed themselves for her but she grieves for them every passing moment.
Also I’d say Igon more aligns with Rogier. Both were deformed and were left unable to walk because of things they admired. Unlike Rogier, Igon continued of fighting until he could no longer move. Whereas Rogier just rotted away on the balcony in the Roundtable Hold.
Leda is a parallel of D. D follows the Greater Will devoutly no matter what in his charge against those that live in death. This an excellent mirror of how Leda acts after Miquella's charm breaks. One of the first things she brings up is that she's going to hunt to down those in the group that don't fully follow or even go against Miquella. Granted this doesn't really track when you try to compare the D hunts down (Fia and those who live in death) vs who Leda hunts down (Hornsent and Ansbach) who mirror Dalios and Gideon. Also that being said Leda doesn't hunt down Thoiller who eventually goes against Miquella just like Ansbach, but not Hornsent who ends up on her side. This could be a mirror of how D doesn't ever go after Rogier despite Rogier wants being pretty opposed to D's, but like I said it the comparison gets shakey after you move on from how devoutly and steadfast they follow their choice of greater power.
I think another pair of opposites that can be considered are Goldmask and Count Ymir.
Both are noble seekers of truth that possess great knowledge about the world they inhabit (although only one of them directly shares with us about it). Both seek an answer to a question why the world is twisted and can be helped by player on their quest.Both have distanced themselves from their factions in their search and both consider themselves servants of Greater Will.What makes them different though is the underlying motivation that urges them to seek those answers.All the great revellations Count Ymir is seeking are for a simple and egoistical reason anyone can understand: revive his dead son. On the other hand Goldmasks reasons are completley detached from his own self. He's an ascetic with no attachments trying to find the reason why the Golden Order, the suposed order of good and learned, is turning its followers into agressive zealots (source : Order Healing). At the end, he goes against the one core belief of his order, which I think shows his dedication to greater learnedness and good above all else.
tl,dr - Both seek to understand the world and change it : one to fix it, the other to fix himself.
There's another connection. Ymir wanted to become the Finger Mother and Goldmask communicated with the Greater Will like the fingers.
I also love the Goldmask / Midra comparison. Both wisdom seekers, Goldmask was free to pursue knowledge while Midra was punished for it; both by the world he lived in and the knowledge he was seeking itself.
I'm gonna make an argument that Leda is a reflection of.... us! The player!
She has chosen her cause, she knows the ending she wants and the philosophy she believes is the true meaning, and is willing to use others to get to it much in the same vein that we often lead to the deaths of NPCs because we want certain story content or items.
I think the “All-Hearing” is Gideon, given his armor being covered in eyes and ears. I’m guessing he sent Ensha through the Albinauric village, but followed after everyone fell and talked to Latenna himself. Especially makes sense, considering Ensha never speaks.
I also think Leda could be more of a reflection of Corryn in her role trying to bring a new age that repairs the golden order.
Leda parallels Blaid to me, especially with Miquella and Rani as parallels. Both are fiercely loyal, both seek the counsel of others, and in the end both turn on us.
Moore can live tell him idk and he’ll remain content with just being helpful to you
Yura and Igon have a lot of contrast. One, emotionally hunting his targets and warns you to avoid dragons. The other, consumed by emotion and compelled by revenge against a dragon.
It seems like Yura's motivation for trying to stop Elonora was akin to love, while Igon is all rage and fear.
Great Video man I love this POV and the arguments for it.Well done
*Undying devotion to their ‘Ranni’ figure.
*Completely willing to kill any they deem traitorous.
*Considers us an ally at first but eventually attempts to kill us at the end of their questline.
*both are trapped in a kind of spell which binds them as servant to their ‘Ranni’ figure.
Leda may very well be Blaidd’s counterpart.
I pictured Blaidd with the little Ranni figure from the gag manga lol
i could totally see it tho, i like it
D and Leda because they both seem chill at first but they'd actually like delusional as fuck 🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭
lmao
I mean, D is actually a pretty reasonable guy who is upfront about what he's about. His brother D, however...
@@feeblecursedone2540D is not reasonable/upfront, he’s a zealot about his beliefs and imposes them on you the whole time
@@Radahntheconqueror He never attacks you, freely offers warnings about Those Who Live in Death being dangerous, and helps with bosses. He's a bit of a grump with a stick up his ass, but compared to plenty of other characters he's not that bad.
@@RadahntheconquerorI legit never liked Those who live in death , There the only enemies in the game that go out of their way to kill you for no reason at all. You might say they’re protecting The Prince of Death , you know the thing that spread all over the place that you can’t even injure and canonically deathblight you when you play with the corpse too much ( pause )
Leda and tanith share a lot in common, they both follow a Demigod in their attempts to become either a god or a god devouerer. Tanith will send you to fight other tarnished whilst leda will place hits on her comrades. They want very similar things but both of the end goals are a stark contrast of the other. And the way they achieve their goals is also rather different. You could say tanith is more compassionate as she encourages the recusants, and as she cares for rya. Then there is leda who pretty much just thinks of her comrades as potential threats, seeing them as potential obstacles in her way.
Doubling is so important in this game, as well as characters having shadow selves! These all make so much sense tbh
I made comparisons between ansbach and gideon but those are the most obvious, I didn’t realize how deep it went with other characters! Incredible video!
Appreciate it! I'm surprised I haven't heard someone else talk about these specific inversions.
There are things that could be argued as shadows all throughout the dlc
I think ymir is goldmask's shadow (both saw flaws in the gods but one lost his mind to ambition wheras the other stayed humble), millicent and that npc who invades you and wishes he was messemer (both heavily resemble a demigod but whereas one just naturally resembles a demigod without trying the other actively tries to resemble one. Also the messemer wannabe mainly invades you only helping you out if you make him a spirit summon meanwhile millicent mainly helps you only invading you if you haven't given her the needle yet).
Gideon may be the parallel to ansbach, but he is truly the most similar to the tarnished mc.
Aping boss moves, thinking he knows best, and all that.
Anyway, its just blatantly untrue that he doesnt stop you from puppeting nepheli, he literally asks you to throw the potion away lol. Why omit that out? And calling him a coward is wierd too, he literally chooses to fight you, someone who has defeated multiple demigods. In the story, you are multiple times stronger than him, something hes fully aware of.
This video is brilliant!
For me Leda is a mirror to Blaidd like how you brought up Ranni and Miquella. Both are the devout followers to miquella and they had their own wills tested.
Leda with miquellas charm being broken and Blaidd with his being forced to follow the greater will. One succumbed to it and retaliated against the one he swore allegiance too and the other was wholly unaffected even if they realized they had been charmed.
The Ensha/Dryleaf Dane connection works really well, since in addition to being silent, their only form of communication is through a single gesture (and combat).
Leda and Melina seem like shadows/opposites of each other.
- Both will see you before you enter the first main areas of their portion of the game. Melina walks upon the Tarnished with Torrent before they enter Limgrave, and Leda will directly talk with the Tarnished before they enter the SotET DLC area The Gravesite plain, with both instances of these encounters having the player leaving a mausoleum to enter the respective "Grave" open area.
- Melina is incorporeal, almost like a ghost with burnt skin, who makes an accord with the Tarnished to act as a pseudo Maiden in service to us while using our body as a vessel to be able to get close to the Erdtree, whereas Leda is a Tarnished much like us with body intact, smooth skinned, and able to accomplish her goals without assistance of a vessel.
- Melina wishes to aid the Tarnished in destroying The Erdtree and Golden Order in hopes of rekindling a new age with the Tarnished becoming the new Elden Lord with any of these ages being of the Tarnished's choices (sans the Lord of Frenzy), whereas Leda is assisting the player with but one outcome in hand - to make Miquella's new age become a reality and nothing more, with the Tarnished being neither lord, consort, nor having any choice in outcome.
- Melina will come to battle with Morgott to help the Tarnished remove him as a barrier from their goal, whereas Leda becomes a barrier to the Tarnished while going to battle with those who stand with her for their goal.
- Melina will swear an oath to hunt down the Tarnished should they choose The Lord of Frenzy ending with a promise of Destined Death almost like she is now a Tarnished, whereas it can be speculated that if the Tarnished where to help Miquella and Radahn bring in the new age whether through choice or bewitching, Leda would forever become a companion of the Tarnished almost akin to a Maiden in a ironic twist that the Tarnished would no longer be Maidenless (sans those who choose Ranni of course).
Something I’ve thought about a lot that I’ve rarely seen discussed elsewhere is that everything about the land of shadow, not just the characters are like the jungian reflections of things from the lands between. Not only that, but I also believe that many aspects of it could be read as representative of miquella’s personal worldview and opinions of certain characters. Messmer for example has some strange parallels to Rykard, both having a flaming snake motif, but where rykard uses subterfuge messmer is more overt with his plans. Metyr could also be read as a more monstrous idea of the Two Fingers, instead of being a famously worshipped and favored divine entity, being a skulking horror that few know of, seemingly pulling all the strings from someplace unknown. That’s just my takeaway at least
D and Freyja both cover their faces but for opposite reasons. D uses his to honor his brother and show his pride, and Freyja uses it to cover her shamed scarlet rot.
You could also say that they were both inflicted with a godly disease as well
I dunno why this isn't discussed more, probably one of the most interesting observations, even if it's just purely on the merit of elden ring's poetic writing
I think Leda is the antithesis of bogart.
Leda seeks purpose
Bogart seeks independence
Leda betrays you and has trust issues
Bogart has trust issues but sees you as a friend and fishes for you
Leda immediately connected to D in my mind, complete faith and immediate jumps to violence
Leda always came off to me as being kinda like D. Both are blindly loyal to the Order/Miquella and they talk alike with their chill tone.
This is actually a pretty cool! It makes more sense if you look at the land of shadow a reflection of everything we see in the lands between. The Scadutree is flowing with sap and real while the Erdtree is an illusion and no longer functional, Horns and the crucible being revered in the land of shadow while in the lands between it is a curse
Also both Hornsent and Diallos being potentates one causing suffering in jars while one creating peace with jars is another comparison.
I think Leda might be a counter to Bernahl. Leda devotes her life to serving Miquella while Bernahl serves Rykard. They never stray from their mission. Although Bernahl does not prevent you from fighting Rykard because that is the path of the Recucant. He does try to kill you in Farum Azula because you strayed the Recucant path and are attempting to become Elden Lord. like Leda tries to stop you from trying to challenge Miquella.
Call it a cop-out but I honestly feel like the closest parallel to Leda is the Tarnished themselves. Both end up leaders, both end up devoting themselves to an Empyrean or God at the end of the day, and both end up deciding the fates of others as often as not. But while the Tarnished is often genuinely trying to help and the deaths around him are the result of a failure to save them due to circumstances outside their control, Leda is a murdering bastard, and hers is a failure to murder others, because as much as she has many of the elements of a main character, she isn't one.
Is it just me, or was isnt it obvious Leda is a reflection of Roderika? Both were leaders of people, but when faced with doubt, Roderika loses her way, even when those who support her never wavered, and she never stops thinking about their sacrifices for her.
Where Leda, when faced with doubt, doubles down, reverts to her paranoia. She begins picking off her own hand herself, and doesn't care what she asks of them, or if it's even too much.
Icon could be a reflection of Rogier. Both go on life threatening journeys to fulfill their purpose, Rogier to learn about those who live in death and Godwyn and Igon to get revenge on Bayle. And both end up losing the use of their legs at the hands of their goal, Igon from Bayle and Rogier from Godwyn’s corpse
I really like all of these connections, and i definetly think Leda serves as a mirror of the player character
Just some things about Gideon and Ansbach:
-Most of this is based around this theory that Radagon, unlike Marika, is trying to prevent the coming of a new Elden Lord.
-If we take the description of Gideon's armor, saying he "glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika", litterally. Though, considering his change in plans he likely "read" the wishes Radagon instead. This could work as another contrast with Ansbach.
Gideon dies carrying out the will of Radagon, Ansbach unwillingly served Miquella for a time but dies (regardless of how) following his true convictions.
-Both of them act to prevent the coming of a new age.
[-Also while yes, he doesn't directly prevent you from "poisoning" Nephelli, which he might be unable to considering the non-agression rule, he does still offer to dispose of the potion for you, explaining that Seluvis wouldn't suspect foul play. And he seems to be happy if she becomes the ruler of Limgrave.]
This DLC has a o lot of opossites: Erdtree obviuos, relanna/renalla, scadutree avatar/erdtre avatar, shadow altus/plato altus, Placisdussax/ Bayle, Mesmer/various demigods (like malenia), kindling that little shadow tree/ kindling the erdtree, Romina/Malenia, Miquella/Marika (and St. Trina), the jars of the shadow land/jars of the land betwenn, etc...
I thought of diallos when Leda came up spoilers ahead for Diallos quest line…
as Leda kills numerous former allies if she has a suspicion of them betraying Miquella holding loyalty above all Diallos can’t seem to find loyalty in anyone he swears to end the recusents after the death of his friend but the joins them but can’t bring himself to kill another tarnished so he runs and goes to jarburg where he shows his first act of loyalty protecting those he could from poachers but dying happily in the process
This one also feels like a bit of a reach, but also not-Igon and Roderika have some fun parallels. You both meet them when they’re sitting/laying on the ground, bemoaning their fates, and after talking to them they get a little more resolve and decide to move forward. “Remember yourself as you once were” vs her deciding she should go to the Roundtable Hold and make something of herself. Roderika stays with you even as the Hold burns, helping you summon spirits, whereas Igon begs you to summon his own spirit in a fight against a fiery boss. Maybe these are just surface level connections but I really like how they mirror each other with two entirely opposite kinds of courage and dedication, one learned and very subtle and patient and one driven by vengeance and some WILD stubbornness.
Leda is like Varre. Introduces us to the game / DLC, completely devoted to a demigod and their purpose. Tries to stop us as we approach them.
I feel like Leda would mirror us the most, the nameless Tarnished that pushes towards our lordship. She's mad enough to try and kill *anyone* that may be in her way, eager to please the target of her obsessions, and she is the only one to be there to invite us to the shadowlands.
She shares our drive to push towards our ends, she shares our bloodlust (we literally kill anything that doesn't either simply run from us, or tries to talk first), the only difference is that she, unlike us, doesn't have the will to continue after each and every death. Sure, she doesn't give up after the first one, but she is still crushed under the endless onslaught of our will in her boss battle. She may win a few times, but even she has a limit. She already has the finishline set down, her lord has already technically won, but for us? We are pushing and pushing to reach the climax. Rahdahn. She is simply our last rival before we reach our own finishline.
At least, that is my idea here.
Great catch on this!
You could also say Thiollier is a "simp" and Fia is the "simp'd for" 😅
Leda reminds me of an inverse of melina or something, being that they are sources of info and guide you to the god they are challenging or followers of.
I can see aspects of D in leda. Both are absolutely committed to who they serve, very critical of others and the typical holy knight stereotype
I guess the shadow of the Tarnished of No Renown is Radahn, both returned from death, both potential Lords and Consorts.
But one is free to choose their fate and path while the other is bound and enslaved despite their might.
Leda is supposed to be a mirror of us. She fights with direction and someone elses guidance. We start our journey without direction, guided only by grace and the ghost of melina. We fight to ascend, she fights to serve.
i love the Lunacid music in the background lol
That is one contemplative froggo at the end.
I'd think Ymir more reflects Gold Mask. Gold Mask geos around 3 places to figure out the golden order. Ymir sends you to 3 places to figure out the fingers.
Ansbach is definitely my Solaire in the Elden Ring universe.
Heck, he even feels like the embodiment of the classic wise old mentor figure of the fantasy genre. Obi-Wan, Gandalf, Dumbledore, Merlin, etc. And before anyone argues that unlike the others, Ansbach is afraid of fighting, just remember the word of Ned Stark: Being afraid is the best time to be brave.
Thoillier and Coryn I would put as opposites, with their devotion being the thread that connects them.
Raykard to Mesmer anyone?
Also, Ymir to Tanith along with her protector to the Knight of Night.
Another contrast in general is you get physic stuff in shadow realm from walking pyre giants, while in Lands Between, you get it from wood people.
NeoJetty does insanely underrated work!
Have you thought about Leda being Blaidd's parallel? As a follower of Rani vs Miquella, one who helps us in our journey but end up in odds with, but in a different way? Leda having her undying devotion while Blaidd being turned against Rani by the greater will.
Thanks for the video I learned so lore stuff. Quiet interesting.
Needle knight leda could be either a mirror of hugh. A prisoner to a gods will, but instead of being forced to do their bidding, Leda willingly follows, imprisoning herself into Miquella's service, not caring for her own out come, just the outcome of their lord and master as hugh is forced to craft a weapon that can kill a god, aka killing queen Marika/Radagon/the Elden Beast.
You know what I just realized, Igon has a counterpart as well, specifically that one spectral soldier in manor who tells you to slay Rykard with the Serpent Hunter using his final breath, whereas Igon uses his last breath to slay Bayle. Perhaps Hyetta/Irina are a parallel to Florissax in which they both serve a lord in which they both perish, yet you can save Florissax by becoming her new lord.
Everytime i see leda all i see are the things milicent rejected from her family at the haligtree
I think Leda is a reflection of us. The Tarnished will do anything that is asked of him, just as she is easy to manipulate. She does anything and everything for Miquella, believing his vision to be the best for the Lands Between, just as most players are hellbent on Ranni's ending or some other like Fia's and on the other side of the coin:
She is wholly devoted to another, while the Tarnished fights for themselves, their own ambition, if Miquella is the opposite to Ranni, seeking subjugation while Ranni seeks freedom, Leda is the willing slave to our Tarnished's rebellious free man.