People can hate on back tracking all they want but I think it gives you a reason to go back to worlds that otherwise would be pretty much not gone back to.
It's really hard to tell but after the release of the NSO version it seems like most people are responding positively, like the reputation of Tooie is now improving somewhat. It's hard to tell if it's going to stay that way as more people reach the more complex second half of the game. But generally I've seen a lot of appreciation from people playing this for the first time. I have always felt that Tooie's negative reputation largely stems from people having played it and got frustrated by it when they were dumb kids who didn't know any better, and they never played the game ever since, so they just remember Tooie as being really bad cuz they played it when they weren't mentally ready for it. It certainly helps Tooie's reputation that the NSO version is completely lag-free, lets you skip text and allows Super Banjo. It's like the definitive version of the game now.
Oh that's definitely a good sign! I haven't actually been keeping tabs on people's opinions since the NSO release, but hopefully more people start to appreciate Tooie as time goes on!
I'm in the Tooie camp, too. I feel like I'm just gonna repeat a lot of what you said, but I love unraveling those huge, intricate worlds, I love how the levels are interconnected, it's charming as hell and very funny, looks great, sounds great and I love the scope and how ambitious it is. I get why some don't like it, tough. I think the levels themselves are superbly designed, but the game does some really dumb things that hinder the level design and make some of what you do feel like busywork. Just look at what you do to open the Dodgem Dome in Witchyworld: Go to Wumba, become the van, use it to open the passage to the Inferno, go back to Wumba's and become Banjo again, go back to the Inferno, get Mumbo, get him to the Space Zone, power the zone back up, go back to Mumbo's and get Banjo back, go to Wumba's, become the van, go to the Space Zone, pay for the entrance to the Dodgem Dome, go back to Wumba's, become Banjo again, go back to the Space Zone to FINALLY play the damn mini-game. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, and while nothing else in the game goes that far, there are a lot of tasks that are kinda like that, and could've been streamlined by just letting you swap to Banjo and Kazooie on the spot. It wasn't bad enough to be a dealbreaker for me, I still adore this game (now that's on NSO, I'm playing it for the fourth time), but I get why some don't like it. It requires a lot of patience. It's really a shame that we never got to have a game that improved on the amazing ideas that Tooie had. I'd kill for a Super Mario Odyssey 2 or something that had a world like Tooie's. I won't say Banjo-Threeie, because I've kinda given up on that one.
Even though it's looking less and less likely by the day, I still have hope for Banjo-Threeie! Would be awesome to see how a true return to form for the series would look.
100% agree. Kazooie is great, yet I find myself wanting to go back to Tooie way more than I ever have Kazooie 🤷♂️ The world feeling more cohesive/interconnected just appeals to me. Yeah, there are some slogs for Jiggy quests (sick dinosaur, I'm looking at you -.-) but the game is so charming, I will always enjoy it. Also notes persisting through subsequent visits/death is an amazing QoL change 👍
you gotta go back to the time this was released. people wanted a much more complicated version. people had played BK through 10x and were desperate for more
@@jlbwho7913 We don't talk about Nuts & Bolts. Nor about Yooka-Laylee. We definitely don't say that Nuts & Bolts was a sequel to the originals, on the XBox 360, where the gameplay focused mainly around constructing vehicles out of parts, Tears of the Kingdom style, in order to use them to explore game worlds and perform various challenges in a rehash of Kazooie/Tooie gameplay. It's not a terrible game, but it's not as good as the originals, and the sudden shift away from adventure platformer to wacky vehicle shenanigans put off a lot of fans. It's like if Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2 didn't have the Gummi Ship sections, and then Kingdom Hearts 3 only had the Gummi Space part of the game... Or if they'd released Melody of Memory instead of KH3. Meanwhile, Yooka-Laylee was an attempt to make a "modern" collectathon platformer by a bunch of former Rare employees who had worked on the Banjo games, and is a bigger game without enough new ideas to fill it - a Banjo-Threeie without the IP. Yooka-Laylee: The Impossible Lair is a much better game, using the same IP, but based on Donkey Kong Country side-on 2D platforming rather than the Banjo-Kazooie 3D collectathon. There's a Yooka-Laylee remake in the works, which I'm waiting to see about.
I found out earlier today that the reason for the note change was because of N64 memory issues. It couldn't save 100 individual notes, but with groups of 5 and 20 it allowed them to save progress - something essential now you have to revisit stages multiple times
I played it before the original, and that's probably part of why I prefer it. While Kazooie is a great game, it seems so small compared to Tooie, despite the higher Jiggy count.
I too played Tooie first, and it was a rude shock going from the endgame Tooie moveset to the start of Kazooie, without even the Talon Trot, let alone all the other moves that unlock in Kazooie and are available from the start in Tooie. I also got lost in Grunty's Lair, which never happens to me in Tooie. And, while there are some good levels in Kazooie, I'll take Grunty Industries over Rusty Bucket Bay any day - particularly with music notes resetting on death in Kazooie (which is probably the reason they only have 17 notes per level in Tooie rather than the 100 in Kazooie - so they can keep track of each one individually without eating too much memory)
Tooie really needs to be used as the model for other platformers going forward, it really is just so good and all the new things it offers still have so much potential.
One thing you didn't really mention much is that the world of the game feels a lot more atmospheric. The sprawling, interconnected levels contribute a ton to the slower, more contemplative exploration focus the game has, and makes the game world feel lived in and believable despite the goofiness of the game overall. I'm a big fan of games like Metroid and the slower, exploration focused things you do felt more appropriate and more fitting a collect-a-thon, where the entire point is scouring every nook and cranny looking for secrets and collectibles.
That's a great point - Tooie has such an awesome atmosphere! The way the levels are connected really sells the feeling of it being this one massive world.
12:40 This is also one of my favorite quests. There are two ice cubes. The women misses her husband. And when you find her husband, he tells you to push him down so he will fall back into the snow region where his wife is. The resolution of this quest is to kill them both.
The warp pads aren't a fix. They are a bandaid. Watching Mumbo slowly waddle up to a warp pad makes me wonder why I am forced to use mumbo at all, if all I am ever going to be doing with him is slowly waddling through the same level I already walked through 17 times probably, in order to do something that I probably already understand everything about, so there is no puzzle there, it is just busy work. If I know exactly where I am going and what I am doing with Mumbo, 2 minutes before I am even at Mumbos hut, and I know it is going to take me like 5 minutes to do whatever I have to do with mumbo, if I make no mistakes or go the wrong way or something why am i being made to do it at all? So I am spending my time thinking about the tedious stuff I am going to have to be doing for the next 10 minutes, instead of making decisions about what I will do next, as I just have fun with whatever I am currently doing, which is how Banjo Kazooie feels to me.
Finally somebody that understands my point, thanks buddy. This game even today it’s just different. It’s magical. It doesn’t matter how much I play it I don’t get tired of it.
I definitely think there's more to playing tooie than the first game. In Kazooie, there's no real need to get better at going from location to location unless you're a speedrunner. In Tooie, optimizing your pathing is more rewarding I feel.
According to one of my favorite channels, Schaffrillas Productions, Banjo-Tooie is indeed a perfect sequel. It's such a perfect evolution on the first game. It expands the universe, introduces new characters, builds upon the first game's gameplay in a natural way, introduces more mature themes, and I could go on. Many Jiggies involve tasks completed across multiple worlds - I love that! People can prefer the first game all they want - I love it too - but Tooie is a fantastic sequel, and one of my favorite games of all time.
One of the best experiences I've ever had with gaming! This game is so good that it almost makes it's antecessor kinda obsolete (and we're talking about Banjo fn Kazooie here). It's also a MUCH harder game than Kazooie overall, which to me is great
Im with you bro. I played the first game as a teenager and eagerly waited the release of Tooie and i was not dissapointed. Im English and i remember N64 magazine essentially trashing it and giving it an 82% which was scandalous to me. Just the humour of this game takes it way past most games, genuinely funny at times just like the Donkey Kong SNES games
@Fobb Honey Bee: "do you need me to give you an extension Banjo?" Even as kids we understood double entrandre and the health bar/c*ck double meaning. For "family friendly" games Rare sure flew close to the line with the script writing. The Banjo games definitely had all the cheeky wit of the DK series and some of the characters from these games are great, kool Kong the hippie stoner, cranky Kong bitching about the yoof, Bottles and Kazoies slanging matches, Mumbo being a total meme Lord. Seriously British games
I loved Banjo Tooie as a child. I am playing it again now, and it does have some tedious moments here and there that was frustrating me. However, I cannot stop playing it and am really enjoying it!
I grew up with Tooie and not Kazooie so I definitely have nostalgic bias, but I just adore it so much. It's my favorite game of all time as well. Kazooie is great but Tooie's interconnected world, higher emphasis on adventuring rather than just pure platforming, and awesome world themes just speak to me more. You can't fault Tooie for not being ambitious, that's for sure. I know most Banjo fans love both of these games but it's always interesting to hear which one people prefer. From what I've seen, it tends to be the one you grew up playing the most, which makes sense.
Tooie has everything that a player form kazooie would have asked in a sequel: Bigger worlds, new and complex ability, seperate banjo and kazooie,playable munbo, a transformation in every world and a proper boss battle for every world. How pepole prefere kazooie is beyond me
I think people tend to prefer Kazooie since it's a much tighter, simpler experience, which makes it easier to 100% and a bit more replayable. I can see the argument for it, but I'll always prefer Tooie!
I mean, if you're going to just list positive points, it's equally possible to list negative points. Loads of the new moves are boring, the egg types are massively underused (and all count as a new move), the splitting is interesting but a bit too situational, everything first person is just horrible (god I miss pooping eggs out), a lot of the game is slow and tedious (and that includes playable Mumbo. Playing him doesn't really add much as you just walk to the pads and press B). Now I don't expect you to agree with most of these (and I do like Tooie) but you should at least understand why reasons like that justify how some people prefer the first game.
@@RobinLSL yeah, i mostri agree the new moves are in 2 categories: expansion from existing move or move for only banjo and kazooie. I also think that mumbo is used in a bad way and the egg could be used better. After all i think that tooie is still better than kazooie
Each time I replay tooie it moves slightly more ahead of kazooie in my eyes - it’s just so good and lets you generally just explore and have fun. You’re never in too much danger or stress, there really isn’t difficult or annoying platforming, it’s really just a genuine adventure. And god damn that music is so good
26:19 i know canary marie is famous for its hard races, but ive NEVER had trouble racing her, which im happy about if i hear all the stories, beat tooie like 3 times won all 12 times. Guess i have the perfect mashing rythem, not to slow, not to fast
11:48 I didn't understand how to progress any further after entering the grunty industries. The next morning I woke up and thought about the train and wondered why I didn't think earlier of this. Not sure if I felt smart or stupid.
If I want a more streamlined, easier and more platforming-centric game, I play Kazooie. If i want to do more puzzle solving, with more exploration, and a bigger, DEEPER story, I play Tooie. Both are amazing games for different reasons, and I grew up playing Kazooie first.
I am in agreement with most of what you said. The way I described these two are: Kazooie is a better experience for most people, but I think Tooie is the overall better game.
I love how _real_ Tooie's world feels, especially compared to Kazooie- it's a super relaxing game to play because you can spend so much time just wandering around the big open spaces whereas Kazooie was a lot more dense and felt almost arcadey by comparison. It comes through a lot in the music, too, like, Tooie's soundtrack just feels darker than Kazooie's, but not necessarily in a way that _bums you out_ so much as it just feels more "worldly". It's like the bear and the bird are stepping out of their little insular world of funny silly platforming and making their way in the _real_ world: even just the music in the main hub world really reflects that IMO, the Isle of Hags compared to Gruntilda's Lair, with those "cloudy" backing strings and muddy lead instrument Like you commented on, the only thing I think is really a clear step down (rather than just a lateral shift) is the notes system; a lot of Tooie's worlds can feel really confusing to navigate and remember what's where (esPECIALLY glitter gulch mine, like omg- and that's world _2!),_ and having more thoughtfully placed notes like in Kazooie could have paid off bigtime to help orient players to the layouts of the different areas and get their sense of direction on straight (on top of making notes feel less like an afterthought lmao)
You hit the nail on the head, Tooie just feels so much grander in scope than the first game. Man, Glitter Gulch Mine is a maze - they made that place insanely hard to find your way around! I seem to recall someone saying that it makes a lot more sense if you just follow the handcart tracks, which I'll admit is something I've never tried before. Another excuse to go back and play this game I guess hahaha
It is true, Cloud Cuckooland felt a bit rushed for me, too. It is kinda an incomplete level. It makes sense, since Rare was also planning to make Cauldron Keep a whole level too, a medieval-themed one, with jiggies and etc, but scrapped the idea - problaby due to either memory restraints or schedule. I think it helps to explain why Cloud Cuckooland feels that way
@@michaelsodomora5439 Initially I would have agreed that Banjo-Tooie was a bad game, though playing it recently I have come to appreciate that RareWare were able to make three decent Banjo-Kazooie games the other being Grunty's Revenge which is generally thought of the worst out of the three games, Nuts and Bolts is an ok game, just not a Banjo-Kazooie game, I believe it would have sold well, had Minecraft been released a year before Nuts and Bolts !
My main criticisms of BT in order of importance: 1. So many unskippable cutscenes. I'm not just talking about having to watch a 5 minute cutscene before starting the game. Every time Jiggywiggy opens a new world you have to watch a 90-120 second cutscene of the world door opening. Every time you do some little thing in the game, there's usually an unnecessary cutscene that plays and wastes your time. For instance, in Grunty Industries, there's multiple times you remove screws from the ground and a thing falls down in the floor below. Every time it shows a cutscene of the thing falling. Just trust the player's intelligence and just make a jingle sound. At most, have Banjo say "I think I heard something fall down in the floor below us!" Stuff like this happens all the time in the game. 2. The worlds are too formulaic and it didn't need to be this way. One main issue is every world has pads for Mumbo and a transformation for Wumba. Most of the Wumba transformations are not fun and are only needed for a couple collectibles. And Mumbo is most of the time not fun at all to play, you just take him to the Mumbo pads and then switch back as soon as you can. It would have been better if they only put a Wumba transformation in a few worlds and in those worlds that transformation lets you do a bunch of stuff (3-4 jiggies + other collectibles + a minigame?). And same for Mumbo, and maybe have Jamjars improve his moveset a little bit too so he's not miserable to play. 3. I think the change to notes are a bad thing. Having a consequence to dying actually makes you need to try harder to not die, but the main thing the notes served in the first game is to make sure you've explored every part of the world. They mostly serve as breadcrumbs leading players to everything the level has to offer. That would have been even more helpful in this game considering all the worlds are much larger. 4. I really dislike it when the game makes you replay the same minigame three times in a row. This happens multiple times and it just feels repetitive. 5. The main story just gets pushed aside after King Jinjo gets zapped. I feel this was a wasted potential. Since the game is already forcing backtracking, having Gruntilda zap characters/areas you've met/explored later in the game could encourage you to return and see what's changed.
I 100% agree with #5. The B.O.B machine simply is forgotten untill the end of the game after King Jingaling gets zapped. When I playied for the first time I would always wait for another cutscene of Gruntilda blasting some other area with the B.O.B and transforming its denizens in zombies. The damn macjine even had a pannel to track the amount of energy that was stored... but it was kinda forgotten for the whole game. It would have been fun to see more areas and characters being zombified.
@@RafaelSantos-ov3fz Yeh for reals. It would have been really interesting to see some areas change after getting zapped. The final boss could have been Grunty fully revitalized too (or some grotesque half-way revitalized version). Considering how much backtracking they put in the game, this would have been a great way to do it. Heck it could have even brought in some post game content by having some collectibles available after you defeat Grunty and return the zapped areas to normal.
24:34 The German loclaization of these dragon names was just as funny. It's rather the opposite of the English one. The English version has both dragons to have hot sounding names (chilli) But in German they are called "Erik Eis" and "Erich Eiss"
The levels are great to blast through in BK but the massive adventure puzzle box of BT is amazing. I prefer BT though it's more tedious at times. Also, that bloody bird who won't be named.
I really don’t understand the back tracking criticism. For me, it makes Tooie kind of like a Metroidvania. I find it really satisfying to see something I can’t do yet, make a note of it and have those eureka moments when I find a new move later. I also just find the way that the worlds are connected so creative. Seeing that basin in Glitter Gulch with Jolly Rodger written on it and falling into it later, seeing a fucking dinosaur run from a prison in a theme park to get on a train. Plus I actually wish there were more reasons to come back to worlds on banjo kazooie, often felt like a shame id only run through them once. What I will criticise is the aiming mechanics and the HUNDREDS of mini games which are essentially a reskin of ‘shoot this stuff’. Granted I think this isn’t helped by the switch port where the joystick feels way too sensitive. The creeping sections in this port are INFURIATING.
I always enjoyed tooie more. It was the first one I played and was obsessed with it at as a kid and when I played kazooie it just felt to Easy and plain for me compared to tooie. I just enjoyed the music, the bosses and the worlds way more.
I did manage to find this but, it took me forever as a kid to master finding out how to get to that side of the game. I was so proud of myself when I found it.
I do love Banjo-Tooie, and played it for hours, but unlike Banjo-Kazooie, where I find the whole experience enjoyable, I think my issue with Banjo-Tooie comes down to the overall enjoyment as the game progresses. Similar to Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Tooie starts off outstandingly well, and really pulls you into the experience. Mayahem Temple, Glitter Gulch Mine and Witchyworld are all outstandingly good levels; that call back to Banjo-Kazooie's design while still expanding upon it in it's own unique way. They still have the wheel design of the original game, where the levels are designed to spin you around so you can easily visit every location in one fell swoop if you know where to go; but the key difference in Tooie and Kazooie is Tooie's levels have more meat to the process; but in early stages it's more subtle. But, the later levels get so ungodly massive, that even knowing where to go becomes undeniably frustrating. Terrydactyl Land is the starting point for this, but imo; Grunty Industries is the one that absolutely kills it. Multiple Floors of identical, metal textured hell that makes it almost impossible to progress at a decent pace. For as much as people hate Rusty Bucket Bay, at least that level was straightforward. Grunty Industries feels like you took Rusty Bucket Bay, and combined it with the length and trickier of Click Clock Woods to create a hellish landscape of death that is almost impossible to progress in unless you already know exactly where to go. I like the puzzle of how you get in; but from then on, it feels like it takes hours to get anything done. The change made to the notes compound this, since instead of 100 notes to lead you around the level, you only have 16 Note Nests and a Treble Cleft. Which then leads to the Note Nests being randomly hidden in obscure locations out of the way instead of guiding you around the stage. The lack of Grunty also makes the experience less fun. In Banjo-Kazooie, Grunty is omnipresent, always mocking your progress and poking fun at the challenges SHE set up for you to mock and belittle you. Making you want to get revenge, while in Banjo-Tooie... Grunty just kinda gets sidelined... she doesn't speak as often to mock and critique you, and when she does, she's nowhere near as funny as she was in Kazooie; due to here sisters telling her to stop rhyming.
While I understand where you come from, Tooi became way too big and tedious for me to enjoy. Grunty Industries was my breaking point before I quit the game.
I did the same thing since that's where the world seemed to stop for me. Banjo Kazooie always had a clear path on where to go next as you progressed up the tower. Tooie just seemed to hit a dead end in the world at Grunty Industries and required even more backtracking on top of all of the backtracking in the worlds themselves to continue. I eventually picked it back up to give it a 2nd go and don't know if I regret the grind of finding 70 jiggies to complete it about 3 years later. Banjo Kazooie on the the other hand is a game that I've enjoyed playing through at least 100 times in my life. I was 12 and 14 when the 2 games came out. After college I looked up a player guide to see what I had missed in the games out of curiosity and found the last 2 honey comb pieces I missed in all of those playthroughs of Kazooie on top of the stop and swap items. Tooie on the other hand wasn't even enjoyable when being guided through the processes. It's the worst Christmas present I ever asked for and got.
I've been saying this alot durring my streams the past few days: Banjo-Tooie is all about optimization on repeat playthroughs Do I save Old King Coal for after I have opened Terrydactyl Land, GruntyIndustries, Witchyworld and have the Ice Eggs so I kill him in two hits, Travel to Witchyworld to pick up the Stacysaurus and then drop her off and then get intpo Grunty Industries all without leaving the train? Or do I unlock the train super early on and have it ready when I reach witchyworld? Now you have to make at least 20 more choices like this through the whole game to perfectly optimize your route! Grunty Industries as a level is a perfect Mircrocosm of the greater gameplay loop! It teaches you how to best appraoch the level on a repeat playthrough and then you think: "Oh! I should apply this logic to the game at large!" This is tied with Banjo-Kazooie as number 4 on my top games but if I had to pick one over the other Tooie would win no doubt!
Great point! It's definitely super satisfying to try and beat this game in the most efficient way possible. Each time I come back to Tooie, I feel like I get a little bit better, since I remember the layouts of each world and where each Jiggy is.
I'm in the camp of people who played Tooie before the first game. I didn't even know there was a first game cause the only time I could play Tooie is when my cousins would visit and bring their copy with them. So i am a bit biased in that this was the game i played first, but despite that I do love both games when I finally got to play the first one. I do think Tooie overall does a better job with level design, moves, etc. I always loved searching every nook and cranny for some new secret to find. It's a childhood game that I still love so many years later (and love it's first game too after getting to play it). I remember hoping Banjo & Kazooie would be in Smash for so many years until it finally happened.
Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed! Hahaha, you're correct - that was I Want You Back by the Jackson Five in the Banjo-Kazooie soundfont! I have the full version uploaded unlisted if you wanna give it a listen: ua-cam.com/video/2bT2r4ss9FY/v-deo.html
As a kid I loved the backtracking. It made me feel like I was unraveling a mystery or a secret when I saw parts of the level that I couldn't access on my first time visiting.
9:02 You're not addressing the real problem with the backtracking. It isn't the handful of metroidvania style things you are talking about that people hate. It is the constant back and forth through big confusing levels, which is a little bit excessive even if you know what to do/figure it out quickly. If you make even one mistake in where you are going it can and will cost you minutes, and the first time you play this game that is going to be happening constantly all the time in every level. To me, the feeling of figuring out where to go and what to do is the fun part, for sure, but Tooie doesn't seem to add a great deal more substance in that regard, it all just takes a lot longer to accomplish.
I love this game and the 1st game great games tbh the funny part is that the color jinjos are all randomized so everybody will get a different color jinjo. There is another code similar to what you did to a code nestking called superbanjo, he moves faster which can get jiggys that cannot be reached, and those codes can be saved in the N64, but no xbox. Canary Mary is hard on the last stage. I did slowly tap the button to the point where you are at the same speed as canary mary and keep at the same pace. The second last part is really hard so i pressed the a button as rapidly as i can. Great video.
As a kid, I adored Tooie. I could keep going back to it and have something new to do, whereas Kazooie was over much more quickly. These days, I have less time for games, and what time I do have is generally spent on multiplayer games with friends, instead. I recently went back and played through Kazooie, and had a good time. When I went to Tooie, I just couldn't get into it as much because of much was involved in each step of progress, and didn't actually re-finish it. I still have fond memories of the game, but it just doesn't fit into my time anymore. X)
That's completely fair, time gets scarcer and scarcer as you grow older hahaha While I do come back to Kazooie more often, Tooie will still always hold a special place in my heart!
I am also in the Tooie camp. The original just felt like a big dang checklist to me, everything was too obvious and I wanted more to explore. My favorite levels in Tooie are Hailfire Peaks and Cloud Cuckoo Land. Because flying is just the best thing there is and solo Kazooie is best character. Terrydactyland is a close second(third?) and Jolly Roger's Lagoon and Witchyworld are also loads of fun. The first world always felt a bit too simple for me. I can't even remember its name reliably. And if I had to go into Grunty Industries I'd be passing the controller off to my sister. :P It's less that it was hard and more that I can't stand deliberately ugly levels. Yuck. Edit: Yeaaaah no, Tooie isn't the biggest game on the N64 for scope, that reward cleanly goes to DK64. It just has more... MORE. Sometimes too much more.
The Xbox and NSO have definitely helped this for sure. Seems like the #1 or #2 complaint back then and now was the notorious slowdowns which is pretty much mostly fixed and heck the Jiggy puzzle parts are blazing fast 🤯 And yeah I think most just don't like the larger designed levels and overall back and forthing but thank god they had teleport pads and connected worlds in some parts at least. But I can understand people preferring Kazooie over Tooie, less is more. For me though it's just one of those depends on the day/month or even year of which one I like more but overall I do like both a lot!
I'M definitely in the Tooie camp. I personally LOVED the backtracking. It gave me a reason to go to earlier levels. The same way I loved going back to Jungle Japes and Angry Aztec as Chunky in DK64
@Fobb Exactly. I loved taking mental notes of visible, but innacessible powerups in Metroid Dread and come back to them when I got the correct weapon or ability!
I got stuck on the water level where that giant shark is, it’s my second time playing banjo since 2001 when I was 7. I tried tooie and I like it so far, will I miss too much if I skip banjo and just stay in tooie? Or is lore that connected?
I think some people's view on Banjo Tooie has soured because Banjo Tooie takes way more time to complete than Banjo Kazooie. I don't think people were harsh about Tooie when it first came out because people had longer attention spans. I recently started playing Tooie again and knew it would take more time than Banjo Kazooie, but I didn't realize how much more time was required to complete the game.
Tooie is far lengthier than Kazooie, so I can see why some people would find that off-putting if they're used to how tight Kazooie is. Personally though, I prefer how sprawling and grand Tooie feels.
I agree with most of this, but when you talked about the reflection effect, all I could think of was Ocarina of Time, the arena vs Dark link, which pulled this off first, and to some degree better. Granted Banjo Tooie looks better almost everywhere else.
I grew up with the n64, I got kazooie when it came out and beat it. I couldn’t wait to play tooie when they announced it would be releasing. I spent a lot of hours playing the sequel and thought that the extra moves and abilities were awesome it felt like the team at rareware built an awesome!sequel!!
@@Fobb yea it feels more proper and it’s funny it feels like it’s more for the die hard Bk fans, while the Xbox version is more a dream for platformer fans with its improvements especially the pause screen, but other than that I think I enjoy the NSO version a smidge more it gives me a tad more nostalgia without the frame rate issues oh the audio syncing better helps me a lot too!
How could it be better than the greatest game of all time? :P That being said, point taken and you're absolutely right, it's a phenomenal sequel. Glad to see some love for it.
I like a challenge, so I was initially frustrated with Grunty Industries but quickly grew to love it. Even just being able to move around the massive building easily takes tons of unlocking and careful sequencing. But yes, Tooie > Kazooie, and yes, Cloud Cukooland definitely felt rushed. Also, I play the N64 version of the game, so it will always be the “Slighty Sacred Chamber” for me (I heard they corrected that typo in the console port).
I love the first one. And i liked the second one a lot. Only reason it doesn't hold a special place in my heart is because it was so many years later before i actually played it. Got it second hand, just the game no box, because with a box would have cost hundreds at that point. Still, it was the first time in over a decade that i bought an N64 game, and i didn't regret it for a second. It's brilliant. But like i say, i just have more of an emotional attachment to the first, because i've played it so much more.
Totally fair! I think that's a big part of the reason a lot of people prefer the first game - in general, I think more peple played it when they were younger compared to Tooie.
I really love the Banjo-Tooie! it's my favorite game, I've been playing it since I was 4 years old, and I still like it today. This game has a huge place in my heart, it made my childhood!
One thing I like how is how in the the first game Gruntilda was kinda of this meta self aware comedic witch that knows she is in a video game. In the second game show almost entirely throws that away and becomes a truly serious and threatening villain with greater ambitions. Sadly they pretty much threw all that away with nuts and bolts.
Banjo Tooie is still my go-to game in the series. I love the sense of adventure that it throws at you and the story is well-written and still maintaining the charm and fourth wall-breaking wit of Rare. I love the first game too, but to me it's a bit more on the simplistic side, whereas with the second, you get to meet newer and more exciting challenges and more action-packed jiggies to collect. Personally the only thing I hate about this game is you-know-who, the lady in the bird suit. 😉😉
You're absolutely right about this game feeling like an adventure! Tooie is definitely a lot more complex than the first game, and while it's definitely not for everyone, I think it's fantastic. We won't speak of that nightmarish creation here 😂
Honestly, there's just a handful of quality of life things I want in kazooie but otherwise I consider them too. Completely separate experiences that are both really good. Grip grab. First person egg aim.
We share the exact same opinion on everything this game and the first game have to offer. Everything people might hate about the games, I particularly love. I relish the challenge of not screwing up in Rusty Bucket Bay's engine room, I welcome Grunty Industries tedious tasks for completion. The higher difficulty curve is nice. I like returning to levels after gaining new abilities, or finding another way to get the jiggy beforehand using unintended mechanics. Everything goes with these two games, they are solid. I've been on copium for decades waiting for Threeie 😝
Good retrospective! I actually prefer Banjo-Kazooie over Tooie, but still think Tooie is a good game and definitely a standout N64 title. I remember getting Tooie for Christmas as a kid and thoroughly enjoyed it (well, except maybe that clockwork mouse Canary Mary race). The game is one of the better looking N64 games and it just has some amazing atmosphere and is very charming. I remember getting goosebumps when first going into Atlantis with its beautiful music. It is Rare at its best! I think I just like Kazooie slightly more as I prefer its faster pacing. It also feels like Kazooie has more platforming segments which I appreciate. Tooie just sometimes feels too gimmicky and bloated with some of its challenges (although, not nearly as exhausting as Donkey Kong 64). All told, Tooie is still quite a good experience, but I'd rather replay Kazooie as Tooie can be a bit of a slog to replay. I'm not sure I'd still enjoy 100%ing Tooie!😅
Love the game! It deserves more love! It’s not without issues (dinosaurs, chuffy the train, canary Mary) but it has some great boss fights and the levels are so well designed!
i would have liked it be be a little more linear as at times as i had absolutely no idea what to do or where to go at times a hint system would have been nice
The reason a lot of people don’t like tooie is that it’s essentially a search action. It’s a genre that isn’t very popular to this day (as shown by the sales of metroid games time and time again)
I feel like the fundamental flaw of Banjo Tooie is that Rare was ahead of their time in terms of innovating level size, but not player movement. So they designed Banjo Kazooie around Banjo's movement, or Banjo's movement around Banjo Kazooie. They were developed hand in hand anyway. Banjo Tooie, they just decided that the natural answer to a sequel was "bigger" without addressing how the base characters themselves are designed around smaller environments and a much smaller world. The warping silo is a bandaid on a core problem with this game's design, which should have been solved with faster movement somehow. The game is a platformer, people want to jump and platform and have fun. Not wander back and forth from the same warp silos hundreds of times.
I almost 100 percented this game when it came out and i was in 6th grade but that damn Canary Mary kept me from my goal. Im excited to get back to her now that BT is on NSO and i have a hori split pad with a turbo button. Vengeance will be mine.
I agree with all of this it’s too bad our favorite Bear and Bird never got a third game in any way shape or form due to the rare buy out but at least they’re in smash ultimate
I mean kinda. The worlds are all preference. I love them all but I have my favourites worlds between both games. Love adventures and these games embody that!
As a kid I liked the second one a bit better because of the larger more complex worlds and I also liked the backtracking. But both games are so good!!! I go back and play them both through from time to time.
I'm replaying it and I'm enjoying it far more than 2001, but there is a bit too much back and forth, and I think sticking to just 10 jiggies per level was a bad idea...There's many moments where they could have just awarded you an extra jiggy and improved the sense of reward. It's a game that begs a number of QoL improvements which could fix a lot of the gripes and bring the best out in it. But with that moaning aside it is still absolutely one of the best games on N64 and as you say a techincal masterclass.
People can hate on back tracking all they want but I think it gives you a reason to go back to worlds that otherwise would be pretty much not gone back to.
It’s funny that no-one seems to complain nearly as much about the backtracking in games like Metroid or Mario.
I don’t believe it’s an issue.
It's really hard to tell but after the release of the NSO version it seems like most people are responding positively, like the reputation of Tooie is now improving somewhat. It's hard to tell if it's going to stay that way as more people reach the more complex second half of the game. But generally I've seen a lot of appreciation from people playing this for the first time. I have always felt that Tooie's negative reputation largely stems from people having played it and got frustrated by it when they were dumb kids who didn't know any better, and they never played the game ever since, so they just remember Tooie as being really bad cuz they played it when they weren't mentally ready for it.
It certainly helps Tooie's reputation that the NSO version is completely lag-free, lets you skip text and allows Super Banjo. It's like the definitive version of the game now.
Oh that's definitely a good sign! I haven't actually been keeping tabs on people's opinions since the NSO release, but hopefully more people start to appreciate Tooie as time goes on!
Super Banjo? I’m a fan but somehow I don’t know what that is.
A secret cheat code that you can put into the room in Mayahem Temple to make Banjo run faster!
When I use super banjo I also use super baddy to even it out.
My frustration is from the bugged canary mary races is cloud cuckooland.
I'm in the Tooie camp, too. I feel like I'm just gonna repeat a lot of what you said, but I love unraveling those huge, intricate worlds, I love how the levels are interconnected, it's charming as hell and very funny, looks great, sounds great and I love the scope and how ambitious it is. I get why some don't like it, tough. I think the levels themselves are superbly designed, but the game does some really dumb things that hinder the level design and make some of what you do feel like busywork. Just look at what you do to open the Dodgem Dome in Witchyworld:
Go to Wumba, become the van, use it to open the passage to the Inferno, go back to Wumba's and become Banjo again, go back to the Inferno, get Mumbo, get him to the Space Zone, power the zone back up, go back to Mumbo's and get Banjo back, go to Wumba's, become the van, go to the Space Zone, pay for the entrance to the Dodgem Dome, go back to Wumba's, become Banjo again, go back to the Space Zone to FINALLY play the damn mini-game.
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, and while nothing else in the game goes that far, there are a lot of tasks that are kinda like that, and could've been streamlined by just letting you swap to Banjo and Kazooie on the spot. It wasn't bad enough to be a dealbreaker for me, I still adore this game (now that's on NSO, I'm playing it for the fourth time), but I get why some don't like it. It requires a lot of patience.
It's really a shame that we never got to have a game that improved on the amazing ideas that Tooie had. I'd kill for a Super Mario Odyssey 2 or something that had a world like Tooie's. I won't say Banjo-Threeie, because I've kinda given up on that one.
Even though it's looking less and less likely by the day, I still have hope for Banjo-Threeie! Would be awesome to see how a true return to form for the series would look.
100% agree. Kazooie is great, yet I find myself wanting to go back to Tooie way more than I ever have Kazooie 🤷♂️ The world feeling more cohesive/interconnected just appeals to me. Yeah, there are some slogs for Jiggy quests (sick dinosaur, I'm looking at you -.-) but the game is so charming, I will always enjoy it. Also notes persisting through subsequent visits/death is an amazing QoL change 👍
@@Fobb I'd argue it's looking more likely. The bear and bird have been showing up quite a bit lately.
you gotta go back to the time this was released. people wanted a much more complicated version. people had played BK through 10x and were desperate for more
Love me some Tooie. Now waiting for threeie
Need Banjo-Threeie to happen 🙏
Nuts & bolts.
@@joelsytairo6338 what's a nuts and bolts?
@@jlbwho7913 &^^^
@@jlbwho7913 We don't talk about Nuts & Bolts. Nor about Yooka-Laylee.
We definitely don't say that Nuts & Bolts was a sequel to the originals, on the XBox 360, where the gameplay focused mainly around constructing vehicles out of parts, Tears of the Kingdom style, in order to use them to explore game worlds and perform various challenges in a rehash of Kazooie/Tooie gameplay. It's not a terrible game, but it's not as good as the originals, and the sudden shift away from adventure platformer to wacky vehicle shenanigans put off a lot of fans. It's like if Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2 didn't have the Gummi Ship sections, and then Kingdom Hearts 3 only had the Gummi Space part of the game... Or if they'd released Melody of Memory instead of KH3.
Meanwhile, Yooka-Laylee was an attempt to make a "modern" collectathon platformer by a bunch of former Rare employees who had worked on the Banjo games, and is a bigger game without enough new ideas to fill it - a Banjo-Threeie without the IP. Yooka-Laylee: The Impossible Lair is a much better game, using the same IP, but based on Donkey Kong Country side-on 2D platforming rather than the Banjo-Kazooie 3D collectathon. There's a Yooka-Laylee remake in the works, which I'm waiting to see about.
I found out earlier today that the reason for the note change was because of N64 memory issues. It couldn't save 100 individual notes, but with groups of 5 and 20 it allowed them to save progress - something essential now you have to revisit stages multiple times
That makes a lot of sense! I wonder what they'd do with the note system if they were to fully remake Tooie 🤔
I think I've heard that disproved in an interview with Rare before
The thing i dislike the most about Banjo Tooie is Canary Mary
I don't blame you at all 💀
I played it before the original, and that's probably part of why I prefer it. While Kazooie is a great game, it seems so small compared to Tooie, despite the higher Jiggy count.
Tooie is absolutely massive in scope compared to the first game! Both are fantastic games in their own regard, but man Tooie just feels so huge.
I too played Tooie first, and it was a rude shock going from the endgame Tooie moveset to the start of Kazooie, without even the Talon Trot, let alone all the other moves that unlock in Kazooie and are available from the start in Tooie.
I also got lost in Grunty's Lair, which never happens to me in Tooie.
And, while there are some good levels in Kazooie, I'll take Grunty Industries over Rusty Bucket Bay any day - particularly with music notes resetting on death in Kazooie (which is probably the reason they only have 17 notes per level in Tooie rather than the 100 in Kazooie - so they can keep track of each one individually without eating too much memory)
Tooie really needs to be used as the model for other platformers going forward, it really is just so good and all the new things it offers still have so much potential.
For sure - if we ever see a new Banjo game, I hope it takes a lot of cues from Tooie!
An added bonus that comes with Dragon Kazooie is that she can use Fire Eggs infinitely!
I was always partial to the Fire Eggs - while Grenade Eggs are definitely the most useful type, Fire Eggs were always my go-to!
One thing you didn't really mention much is that the world of the game feels a lot more atmospheric. The sprawling, interconnected levels contribute a ton to the slower, more contemplative exploration focus the game has, and makes the game world feel lived in and believable despite the goofiness of the game overall. I'm a big fan of games like Metroid and the slower, exploration focused things you do felt more appropriate and more fitting a collect-a-thon, where the entire point is scouring every nook and cranny looking for secrets and collectibles.
That's a great point - Tooie has such an awesome atmosphere! The way the levels are connected really sells the feeling of it being this one massive world.
12:40 This is also one of my favorite quests.
There are two ice cubes. The women misses her husband. And when you find her husband, he tells you to push him down so he will fall back into the snow region where his wife is.
The resolution of this quest is to kill them both.
Always felt like a horrible person killing them both as a kid 😂
The warp pads aren't a fix. They are a bandaid. Watching Mumbo slowly waddle up to a warp pad makes me wonder why I am forced to use mumbo at all, if all I am ever going to be doing with him is slowly waddling through the same level I already walked through 17 times probably, in order to do something that I probably already understand everything about, so there is no puzzle there, it is just busy work.
If I know exactly where I am going and what I am doing with Mumbo, 2 minutes before I am even at Mumbos hut, and I know it is going to take me like 5 minutes to do whatever I have to do with mumbo, if I make no mistakes or go the wrong way or something why am i being made to do it at all? So I am spending my time thinking about the tedious stuff I am going to have to be doing for the next 10 minutes, instead of making decisions about what I will do next, as I just have fun with whatever I am currently doing, which is how Banjo Kazooie feels to me.
Having only watched a minute of this video, the editing is very clean and on point. Would recommend
Also monke
Much appreciated gamer 🙏
BT > BK
Better animations, better dialogue, more realized worlds, more moves, interconnected worlds, funnier characters, so many things.
Such a great expansion from the original!
Finally somebody that understands my point, thanks buddy. This game even today it’s just different. It’s magical. It doesn’t matter how much I play it I don’t get tired of it.
Totally! I can play this game time and time again and it never gets old.
The algorithm recommended me to you, and I'm glad it did! I love this game, awesome video too
Thanks so much!
I definitely think there's more to playing tooie than the first game. In Kazooie, there's no real need to get better at going from location to location unless you're a speedrunner. In Tooie, optimizing your pathing is more rewarding I feel.
According to one of my favorite channels, Schaffrillas Productions, Banjo-Tooie is indeed a perfect sequel. It's such a perfect evolution on the first game. It expands the universe, introduces new characters, builds upon the first game's gameplay in a natural way, introduces more mature themes, and I could go on. Many Jiggies involve tasks completed across multiple worlds - I love that! People can prefer the first game all they want - I love it too - but Tooie is a fantastic sequel, and one of my favorite games of all time.
Did you just do the "nice opinion, did a youtuber give it to you" thing but legitimately
One of the best experiences I've ever had with gaming! This game is so good that it almost makes it's antecessor kinda obsolete (and we're talking about Banjo fn Kazooie here).
It's also a MUCH harder game than Kazooie overall, which to me is great
It takes a LOT for a game to be even better than Banjo-Kazooie, but man, they somehow managed to pull it off!
Gruntys industry was easily my favorite level
Such an intricately-designed world!
That’s an insane take….but I also like the library in Halo CE so I can’t talk lol
Im with you bro.
I played the first game as a teenager and eagerly waited the release of Tooie and i was not dissapointed.
Im English and i remember N64 magazine essentially trashing it and giving it an 82% which was scandalous to me.
Just the humour of this game takes it way past most games, genuinely funny at times just like the Donkey Kong SNES games
Rareware were always on-point with their sense of humour back in the day!
@Fobb
Honey Bee: "do you need me to give you an extension Banjo?"
Even as kids we understood double entrandre and the health bar/c*ck double meaning. For "family friendly" games Rare sure flew close to the line with the script writing.
The Banjo games definitely had all the cheeky wit of the DK series and some of the characters from these games are great, kool Kong the hippie stoner, cranky Kong bitching about the yoof, Bottles and Kazoies slanging matches, Mumbo being a total meme Lord. Seriously British games
I loved Banjo Tooie as a child. I am playing it again now, and it does have some tedious moments here and there that was frustrating me. However, I cannot stop playing it and am really enjoying it!
It's not without its flaws, but it's such a fantastic experience!
Tooie was my first game and Kazooie never really did hit the same. It feels a little more expansive and the levels aren't as short.
For sure, each level in Tooie can take hours to complete!
I grew up with Tooie and not Kazooie so I definitely have nostalgic bias, but I just adore it so much. It's my favorite game of all time as well. Kazooie is great but Tooie's interconnected world, higher emphasis on adventuring rather than just pure platforming, and awesome world themes just speak to me more. You can't fault Tooie for not being ambitious, that's for sure.
I know most Banjo fans love both of these games but it's always interesting to hear which one people prefer. From what I've seen, it tends to be the one you grew up playing the most, which makes sense.
Tooie really did feel like an adventure, such a huge game in scope. It's clear that a lot of passion was put into it! Love the username btw!
@@Fobb Hah thanks! As you can tell I'm VERY much a Banjo-Tooie fan haha
I've played through this game at least 10 times and I had no idea about the Humba Mumbo passage in Hailfire Peaks! 🤯
Tooie has everything that a player form kazooie would have asked in a sequel:
Bigger worlds, new and complex ability, seperate banjo and kazooie,playable munbo, a transformation in every world and a proper boss battle for every world.
How pepole prefere kazooie is beyond me
I think people tend to prefer Kazooie since it's a much tighter, simpler experience, which makes it easier to 100% and a bit more replayable. I can see the argument for it, but I'll always prefer Tooie!
I mean, if you're going to just list positive points, it's equally possible to list negative points. Loads of the new moves are boring, the egg types are massively underused (and all count as a new move), the splitting is interesting but a bit too situational, everything first person is just horrible (god I miss pooping eggs out), a lot of the game is slow and tedious (and that includes playable Mumbo. Playing him doesn't really add much as you just walk to the pads and press B).
Now I don't expect you to agree with most of these (and I do like Tooie) but you should at least understand why reasons like that justify how some people prefer the first game.
@@RobinLSL yeah, i mostri agree the new moves are in 2 categories: expansion from existing move or move for only banjo and kazooie. I also think that mumbo is used in a bad way and the egg could be used better. After all i think that tooie is still better than kazooie
plus a much better camera
While true, they overdid it in my opinion.
Now that it's on NSO, they need to implement stop n swop the way it was supposed to be
That would be a very cool touch!
Maybe later on because as for now sadly it doesn’t because Ive played them
Each time I replay tooie it moves slightly more ahead of kazooie in my eyes - it’s just so good and lets you generally just explore and have fun. You’re never in too much danger or stress, there really isn’t difficult or annoying platforming, it’s really just a genuine adventure. And god damn that music is so good
Grant Kirkhope always hit it out of the park with his music!
Hawk-Tooie
26:19 i know canary marie is famous for its hard races, but ive NEVER had trouble racing her, which im happy about if i hear all the stories, beat tooie like 3 times won all 12 times. Guess i have the perfect mashing rythem, not to slow, not to fast
Oh man, I found the first three races alright but the fourth one always drove me nuts!
11:48 I didn't understand how to progress any further after entering the grunty industries.
The next morning I woke up and thought about the train and wondered why I didn't think earlier of this. Not sure if I felt smart or stupid.
It's so satisfying when you finally connect the dots!
I get people complain about the size of areas being too big, yet these days a lot of games, have way bigger areas.
If I want a more streamlined, easier and more platforming-centric game, I play Kazooie. If i want to do more puzzle solving, with more exploration, and a bigger, DEEPER story, I play Tooie.
Both are amazing games for different reasons, and I grew up playing Kazooie first.
Yep, both games are truly fantastic!
I am in agreement with most of what you said. The way I described these two are: Kazooie is a better experience for most people, but I think Tooie is the overall better game.
That's a fair assessment!
I love how _real_ Tooie's world feels, especially compared to Kazooie- it's a super relaxing game to play because you can spend so much time just wandering around the big open spaces whereas Kazooie was a lot more dense and felt almost arcadey by comparison. It comes through a lot in the music, too, like, Tooie's soundtrack just feels darker than Kazooie's, but not necessarily in a way that _bums you out_ so much as it just feels more "worldly". It's like the bear and the bird are stepping out of their little insular world of funny silly platforming and making their way in the _real_ world: even just the music in the main hub world really reflects that IMO, the Isle of Hags compared to Gruntilda's Lair, with those "cloudy" backing strings and muddy lead instrument
Like you commented on, the only thing I think is really a clear step down (rather than just a lateral shift) is the notes system; a lot of Tooie's worlds can feel really confusing to navigate and remember what's where (esPECIALLY glitter gulch mine, like omg- and that's world _2!),_ and having more thoughtfully placed notes like in Kazooie could have paid off bigtime to help orient players to the layouts of the different areas and get their sense of direction on straight (on top of making notes feel less like an afterthought lmao)
You hit the nail on the head, Tooie just feels so much grander in scope than the first game.
Man, Glitter Gulch Mine is a maze - they made that place insanely hard to find your way around! I seem to recall someone saying that it makes a lot more sense if you just follow the handcart tracks, which I'll admit is something I've never tried before. Another excuse to go back and play this game I guess hahaha
It is true, Cloud Cuckooland felt a bit rushed for me, too. It is kinda an incomplete level. It makes sense, since Rare was also planning to make Cauldron Keep a whole level too, a medieval-themed one, with jiggies and etc, but scrapped the idea - problaby due to either memory restraints or schedule. I think it helps to explain why Cloud Cuckooland feels that way
I think we can all agree it is a better sequel than Nuts and Bolts !
Hahaha I think so!
Facts on facts
I think N&B is still a good sequel, and the other 2 games after that (the Yooka Laylee games ) expand the universe
I've never played Nuts and Bolts because Tooie was just that bad.
@@michaelsodomora5439 Initially I would have agreed that Banjo-Tooie was a bad game, though playing it recently I have come to appreciate that RareWare were able to make three decent Banjo-Kazooie games the other being Grunty's Revenge which is generally thought of the worst out of the three games, Nuts and Bolts is an ok game, just not a Banjo-Kazooie game, I believe it would have sold well, had Minecraft been released a year before Nuts and Bolts !
My main criticisms of BT in order of importance:
1. So many unskippable cutscenes. I'm not just talking about having to watch a 5 minute cutscene before starting the game. Every time Jiggywiggy opens a new world you have to watch a 90-120 second cutscene of the world door opening. Every time you do some little thing in the game, there's usually an unnecessary cutscene that plays and wastes your time. For instance, in Grunty Industries, there's multiple times you remove screws from the ground and a thing falls down in the floor below. Every time it shows a cutscene of the thing falling. Just trust the player's intelligence and just make a jingle sound. At most, have Banjo say "I think I heard something fall down in the floor below us!" Stuff like this happens all the time in the game.
2. The worlds are too formulaic and it didn't need to be this way. One main issue is every world has pads for Mumbo and a transformation for Wumba. Most of the Wumba transformations are not fun and are only needed for a couple collectibles. And Mumbo is most of the time not fun at all to play, you just take him to the Mumbo pads and then switch back as soon as you can. It would have been better if they only put a Wumba transformation in a few worlds and in those worlds that transformation lets you do a bunch of stuff (3-4 jiggies + other collectibles + a minigame?). And same for Mumbo, and maybe have Jamjars improve his moveset a little bit too so he's not miserable to play.
3. I think the change to notes are a bad thing. Having a consequence to dying actually makes you need to try harder to not die, but the main thing the notes served in the first game is to make sure you've explored every part of the world. They mostly serve as breadcrumbs leading players to everything the level has to offer. That would have been even more helpful in this game considering all the worlds are much larger.
4. I really dislike it when the game makes you replay the same minigame three times in a row. This happens multiple times and it just feels repetitive.
5. The main story just gets pushed aside after King Jinjo gets zapped. I feel this was a wasted potential. Since the game is already forcing backtracking, having Gruntilda zap characters/areas you've met/explored later in the game could encourage you to return and see what's changed.
Yes you hit the nail right on the head tooie overall is just not as good as kazooie. Tooie goes for quantity whereas kazooie goes for quality
I 100% agree with #5. The B.O.B machine simply is forgotten untill the end of the game after King Jingaling gets zapped. When I playied for the first time I would always wait for another cutscene of Gruntilda blasting some other area with the B.O.B and transforming its denizens in zombies. The damn macjine even had a pannel to track the amount of energy that was stored... but it was kinda forgotten for the whole game. It would have been fun to see more areas and characters being zombified.
@@RafaelSantos-ov3fz Yeh for reals. It would have been really interesting to see some areas change after getting zapped. The final boss could have been Grunty fully revitalized too (or some grotesque half-way revitalized version).
Considering how much backtracking they put in the game, this would have been a great way to do it. Heck it could have even brought in some post game content by having some collectibles available after you defeat Grunty and return the zapped areas to normal.
24:34 The German loclaization of these dragon names was just as funny.
It's rather the opposite of the English one.
The English version has both dragons to have hot sounding names (chilli)
But in German they are called "Erik Eis" and "Erich Eiss"
Haha that's awesome - very cool that they kept the spirit of the naming scheme across multiple different languages!
The levels are great to blast through in BK but the massive adventure puzzle box of BT is amazing. I prefer BT though it's more tedious at times. Also, that bloody bird who won't be named.
We don't talk about her 👀
Great review! Loved playing this! It was such a huge game!
Thanks for watching! Tooie feels so massive in scope for sure!
I really don’t understand the back tracking criticism. For me, it makes Tooie kind of like a Metroidvania. I find it really satisfying to see something I can’t do yet, make a note of it and have those eureka moments when I find a new move later. I also just find the way that the worlds are connected so creative. Seeing that basin in Glitter Gulch with Jolly Rodger written on it and falling into it later, seeing a fucking dinosaur run from a prison in a theme park to get on a train. Plus I actually wish there were more reasons to come back to worlds on banjo kazooie, often felt like a shame id only run through them once.
What I will criticise is the aiming mechanics and the HUNDREDS of mini games which are essentially a reskin of ‘shoot this stuff’. Granted I think this isn’t helped by the switch port where the joystick feels way too sensitive. The creeping sections in this port are INFURIATING.
I love the metroidvania comparison! The aiming controls definitely could've used some work haha, especially with how much the game used them!
Banjo-Kazooie breaks the fourth wall,
Tooie bulldozes through it.
That's the perfect analogy 😂
I always enjoyed tooie more. It was the first one I played and was obsessed with it at as a kid and when I played kazooie it just felt to Easy and plain for me compared to tooie. I just enjoyed the music, the bosses and the worlds way more.
I can definitely see how Kazooie would feel too simplistic if you played Tooie first. There's a big difference in complexity between the two games!
24:45 That's the first time I hear about this. I never found this myself.
It's a really well-hidden secret!
I did manage to find this but, it took me forever as a kid to master finding out how to get to that side of the game. I was so proud of myself when I found it.
Thank you for this awesome Video!
I love Tooie with pure passion!
Trying to get as much with Mumbo as possible.
I am so glad, that its on NSO!
Thank you Gruntilda 🙏
23:06 wait? You can fire fire eggs to damage him? I always used grenade eggs
You can! Makes life easier as you have a lot more of them hahaha
I do love Banjo-Tooie, and played it for hours, but unlike Banjo-Kazooie, where I find the whole experience enjoyable, I think my issue with Banjo-Tooie comes down to the overall enjoyment as the game progresses.
Similar to Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Tooie starts off outstandingly well, and really pulls you into the experience. Mayahem Temple, Glitter Gulch Mine and Witchyworld are all outstandingly good levels; that call back to Banjo-Kazooie's design while still expanding upon it in it's own unique way. They still have the wheel design of the original game, where the levels are designed to spin you around so you can easily visit every location in one fell swoop if you know where to go; but the key difference in Tooie and Kazooie is Tooie's levels have more meat to the process; but in early stages it's more subtle.
But, the later levels get so ungodly massive, that even knowing where to go becomes undeniably frustrating. Terrydactyl Land is the starting point for this, but imo; Grunty Industries is the one that absolutely kills it. Multiple Floors of identical, metal textured hell that makes it almost impossible to progress at a decent pace. For as much as people hate Rusty Bucket Bay, at least that level was straightforward. Grunty Industries feels like you took Rusty Bucket Bay, and combined it with the length and trickier of Click Clock Woods to create a hellish landscape of death that is almost impossible to progress in unless you already know exactly where to go. I like the puzzle of how you get in; but from then on, it feels like it takes hours to get anything done.
The change made to the notes compound this, since instead of 100 notes to lead you around the level, you only have 16 Note Nests and a Treble Cleft. Which then leads to the Note Nests being randomly hidden in obscure locations out of the way instead of guiding you around the stage. The lack of Grunty also makes the experience less fun. In Banjo-Kazooie, Grunty is omnipresent, always mocking your progress and poking fun at the challenges SHE set up for you to mock and belittle you. Making you want to get revenge, while in Banjo-Tooie... Grunty just kinda gets sidelined... she doesn't speak as often to mock and critique you, and when she does, she's nowhere near as funny as she was in Kazooie; due to here sisters telling her to stop rhyming.
While I understand where you come from, Tooi became way too big and tedious for me to enjoy. Grunty Industries was my breaking point before I quit the game.
I did the same thing since that's where the world seemed to stop for me. Banjo Kazooie always had a clear path on where to go next as you progressed up the tower. Tooie just seemed to hit a dead end in the world at Grunty Industries and required even more backtracking on top of all of the backtracking in the worlds themselves to continue. I eventually picked it back up to give it a 2nd go and don't know if I regret the grind of finding 70 jiggies to complete it about 3 years later. Banjo Kazooie on the the other hand is a game that I've enjoyed playing through at least 100 times in my life. I was 12 and 14 when the 2 games came out. After college I looked up a player guide to see what I had missed in the games out of curiosity and found the last 2 honey comb pieces I missed in all of those playthroughs of Kazooie on top of the stop and swap items. Tooie on the other hand wasn't even enjoyable when being guided through the processes. It's the worst Christmas present I ever asked for and got.
I've been saying this alot durring my streams the past few days: Banjo-Tooie is all about optimization on repeat playthroughs
Do I save Old King Coal for after I have opened Terrydactyl Land, GruntyIndustries, Witchyworld and have the Ice Eggs so I kill him in two hits, Travel to Witchyworld to pick up the Stacysaurus and then drop her off and then get intpo Grunty Industries all without leaving the train? Or do I unlock the train super early on and have it ready when I reach witchyworld?
Now you have to make at least 20 more choices like this through the whole game to perfectly optimize your route!
Grunty Industries as a level is a perfect Mircrocosm of the greater gameplay loop! It teaches you how to best appraoch the level on a repeat playthrough and then you think: "Oh! I should apply this logic to the game at large!"
This is tied with Banjo-Kazooie as number 4 on my top games but if I had to pick one over the other Tooie would win no doubt!
Great point! It's definitely super satisfying to try and beat this game in the most efficient way possible. Each time I come back to Tooie, I feel like I get a little bit better, since I remember the layouts of each world and where each Jiggy is.
10:58
Notes are saved if you die in the HD Remaster of Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox 360.
be cuz banjo tooie has better atmosphere
The atmosphere was definitely one of the best parts of this game!
I'm in the camp of people who played Tooie before the first game. I didn't even know there was a first game cause the only time I could play Tooie is when my cousins would visit and bring their copy with them. So i am a bit biased in that this was the game i played first, but despite that I do love both games when I finally got to play the first one.
I do think Tooie overall does a better job with level design, moves, etc. I always loved searching every nook and cranny for some new secret to find. It's a childhood game that I still love so many years later (and love it's first game too after getting to play it). I remember hoping Banjo & Kazooie would be in Smash for so many years until it finally happened.
Man, Banjo & Kazooie getting added to Smash was a childhood dream come true! So glad it finally happened!
Wonderful video! But BRO that end segment has a song you didn't list out! Is that a jackson five song with the banjo kazooie soundfont? I need it!
Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed! Hahaha, you're correct - that was I Want You Back by the Jackson Five in the Banjo-Kazooie soundfont!
I have the full version uploaded unlisted if you wanna give it a listen: ua-cam.com/video/2bT2r4ss9FY/v-deo.html
@@Fobb Awesome, thank you!
As a kid I loved the backtracking. It made me feel like I was unraveling a mystery or a secret when I saw parts of the level that I couldn't access on my first time visiting.
Figuring out what you were meant to do was such an awesome feeling!
Banjo Threeie wen?
It needs to happen!
9:02 You're not addressing the real problem with the backtracking. It isn't the handful of metroidvania style things you are talking about that people hate. It is the constant back and forth through big confusing levels, which is a little bit excessive even if you know what to do/figure it out quickly. If you make even one mistake in where you are going it can and will cost you minutes, and the first time you play this game that is going to be happening constantly all the time in every level.
To me, the feeling of figuring out where to go and what to do is the fun part, for sure, but Tooie doesn't seem to add a great deal more substance in that regard, it all just takes a lot longer to accomplish.
Love a Broadbean video. Love Banjo-Tooie. This might be the best video on UA-cam.
Gotta love Banjo-Tooie, it's been my favourite game ever for a LONG time and I don't think that's gonna change any time soon!
@@Fobb same.
I love this game and the 1st game great games tbh the funny part is that the color jinjos are all randomized so everybody will get a different color jinjo. There is another code similar to what you did to a code nestking called superbanjo, he moves faster which can get jiggys that cannot be reached, and those codes can be saved in the N64, but no xbox. Canary Mary is hard on the last stage. I did slowly tap the button to the point where you are at the same speed as canary mary and keep at the same pace. The second last part is really hard so i pressed the a button as rapidly as i can. Great video.
Thank you for this love letter to one of the best games of its time!
As a kid, I adored Tooie. I could keep going back to it and have something new to do, whereas Kazooie was over much more quickly.
These days, I have less time for games, and what time I do have is generally spent on multiplayer games with friends, instead. I recently went back and played through Kazooie, and had a good time. When I went to Tooie, I just couldn't get into it as much because of much was involved in each step of progress, and didn't actually re-finish it.
I still have fond memories of the game, but it just doesn't fit into my time anymore. X)
That's completely fair, time gets scarcer and scarcer as you grow older hahaha
While I do come back to Kazooie more often, Tooie will still always hold a special place in my heart!
I am also in the Tooie camp. The original just felt like a big dang checklist to me, everything was too obvious and I wanted more to explore. My favorite levels in Tooie are Hailfire Peaks and Cloud Cuckoo Land. Because flying is just the best thing there is and solo Kazooie is best character. Terrydactyland is a close second(third?) and Jolly Roger's Lagoon and Witchyworld are also loads of fun. The first world always felt a bit too simple for me. I can't even remember its name reliably. And if I had to go into Grunty Industries I'd be passing the controller off to my sister. :P It's less that it was hard and more that I can't stand deliberately ugly levels. Yuck.
Edit: Yeaaaah no, Tooie isn't the biggest game on the N64 for scope, that reward cleanly goes to DK64. It just has more... MORE. Sometimes too much more.
The Xbox and NSO have definitely helped this for sure.
Seems like the #1 or #2 complaint back then and now was the notorious slowdowns which is pretty much mostly fixed and heck the Jiggy puzzle parts are blazing fast 🤯
And yeah I think most just don't like the larger designed levels and overall back and forthing but thank god they had teleport pads and connected worlds in some parts at least.
But I can understand people preferring Kazooie over Tooie, less is more.
For me though it's just one of those depends on the day/month or even year of which one I like more but overall I do like both a lot!
Not having the slowdown is a big help, Tooie used to chug back in the day hahaha
Terrydactyl Land used to be my favorite level of Banjo-Tooie...But nowadays, I am also a Lagoon Enjoyer!
Jolly Rogers Lagoon is such a wonderful level!
i love banjo tooie better than banjo kazooie
I'M definitely in the Tooie camp. I personally LOVED the backtracking. It gave me a reason to go to earlier levels. The same way I loved going back to Jungle Japes and Angry Aztec as Chunky in DK64
Yeah, the backtracking gives it a very similar feel to Metroidvania games!
@Fobb Exactly. I loved taking mental notes of visible, but innacessible powerups in Metroid Dread and come back to them when I got the correct weapon or ability!
Don't forget! Dragon Kazooie has unlimited fire eggs! Try it out! ❤
It's a really cool bonus!
I got stuck on the water level where that giant shark is, it’s my second time playing banjo since 2001 when I was 7. I tried tooie and I like it so far, will I miss too much if I skip banjo and just stay in tooie? Or is lore that connected?
There's not too much that you'll miss out on - the plot is a continuation from the first game but you can play them in either order!
I think some people's view on Banjo Tooie has soured because Banjo Tooie takes way more time to complete than Banjo Kazooie. I don't think people were harsh about Tooie when it first came out because people had longer attention spans. I recently started playing Tooie again and knew it would take more time than Banjo Kazooie, but I didn't realize how much more time was required to complete the game.
Tooie is far lengthier than Kazooie, so I can see why some people would find that off-putting if they're used to how tight Kazooie is. Personally though, I prefer how sprawling and grand Tooie feels.
I agree with most of this, but when you talked about the reflection effect, all I could think of was Ocarina of Time, the arena vs Dark link, which pulled this off first, and to some degree better.
Granted Banjo Tooie looks better almost everywhere else.
Great video!
Thanks, I appreciate that!
I had tooie as a kid. when i grew up, i was never really able to get into the original game
Definitely makes a big difference which game you grew up with
I grew up with the n64, I got kazooie when it came out and beat it. I couldn’t wait to play tooie when they announced it would be releasing. I spent a lot of hours playing the sequel and thought that the extra moves and abilities were awesome it felt like the team at rareware built an awesome!sequel!!
Rareware knew how to make an awesome game back in the day!
I didn't even know you could separate the characters or play as Mumbo until this video
The split-up mechanic is an especially cool addition!
Tooie is sooooo good. The NSO version is amazing and so is the Rare replay version!
I still need to give the NSO version a try! Played it on N64 and 360, but I'm more than happy to replay it again on Switch hahaha
@@Fobb yea it feels more proper and it’s funny it feels like it’s more for the die hard Bk fans, while the Xbox version is more a dream for platformer fans with its improvements especially the pause screen, but other than that I think I enjoy the NSO version a smidge more it gives me a tad more nostalgia without the frame rate issues oh the audio syncing better helps me a lot too!
How could it be better than the greatest game of all time? :P
That being said, point taken and you're absolutely right, it's a phenomenal sequel. Glad to see some love for it.
Hahaha, I can see the appeal of the first game over the second - definitely a matter of preference!
@@Fobb Have you played Yooka-Laylee? I actually love this game and it breaks my heart that so many people hate it.
I like a challenge, so I was initially frustrated with Grunty Industries but quickly grew to love it. Even just being able to move around the massive building easily takes tons of unlocking and careful sequencing.
But yes, Tooie > Kazooie, and yes, Cloud Cukooland definitely felt rushed.
Also, I play the N64 version of the game, so it will always be the “Slighty Sacred Chamber” for me (I heard they corrected that typo in the console port).
Oh wow, I didn't even notice that typo as a kid!
The Genius is that Banjo-Tooie is that they seemlessly turns a platformer into a platformer RPG and you don’t even notice its an RPG
I beat Canary Mary the first time, in Cloud Cookoo Land, the thing that stuck out for me was the length of the race, on N64.
That second race in Cloud Cuckoo Land was especially long!
I love the first one. And i liked the second one a lot. Only reason it doesn't hold a special place in my heart is because it was so many years later before i actually played it. Got it second hand, just the game no box, because with a box would have cost hundreds at that point. Still, it was the first time in over a decade that i bought an N64 game, and i didn't regret it for a second. It's brilliant. But like i say, i just have more of an emotional attachment to the first, because i've played it so much more.
Totally fair! I think that's a big part of the reason a lot of people prefer the first game - in general, I think more peple played it when they were younger compared to Tooie.
I really love the Banjo-Tooie! it's my favorite game, I've been playing it since I was 4 years old, and I still like it today.
This game has a huge place in my heart, it made my childhood!
Always awesome to see some Tooie appreciation!
One thing I like how is how in the the first game Gruntilda was kinda of this meta self aware comedic witch that knows she is in a video game. In the second game show almost entirely throws that away and becomes a truly serious and threatening villain with greater ambitions. Sadly they pretty much threw all that away with nuts and bolts.
It makes her feel a lot more menacing in Tooie compared to Kazooie!
Jolly Rogers requires a lot of swimming and to me it almost puts me to sleep lol
Fair hahaha, it's not for everyone
Banjo Tooie is still my go-to game in the series. I love the sense of adventure that it throws at you and the story is well-written and still maintaining the charm and fourth wall-breaking wit of Rare. I love the first game too, but to me it's a bit more on the simplistic side, whereas with the second, you get to meet newer and more exciting challenges and more action-packed jiggies to collect. Personally the only thing I hate about this game is you-know-who, the lady in the bird suit. 😉😉
You're absolutely right about this game feeling like an adventure! Tooie is definitely a lot more complex than the first game, and while it's definitely not for everyone, I think it's fantastic.
We won't speak of that nightmarish creation here 😂
24:40 I have played banjo tooie about 10 times over the years and I never knew about this secret tunnel. whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
It's a really cool secret! Feels like I learn something new about this game every time I replay it, hahaha
Honestly, there's just a handful of quality of life things I want in kazooie but otherwise I consider them too. Completely separate experiences that are both really good. Grip grab. First person egg aim.
Both games are really fantastic! I always found it strange that there was no ledge-grabbing in Kazooie.
We share the exact same opinion on everything this game and the first game have to offer. Everything people might hate about the games, I particularly love. I relish the challenge of not screwing up in Rusty Bucket Bay's engine room, I welcome Grunty Industries tedious tasks for completion. The higher difficulty curve is nice. I like returning to levels after gaining new abilities, or finding another way to get the jiggy beforehand using unintended mechanics. Everything goes with these two games, they are solid. I've been on copium for decades waiting for Threeie 😝
Tooie's difficulty compared to Kazooie's is a welcome challenge! Fingers crossed we get to see Banjo-Threeie one day hahaha
Good retrospective! I actually prefer Banjo-Kazooie over Tooie, but still think Tooie is a good game and definitely a standout N64 title. I remember getting Tooie for Christmas as a kid and thoroughly enjoyed it (well, except maybe that clockwork mouse Canary Mary race). The game is one of the better looking N64 games and it just has some amazing atmosphere and is very charming. I remember getting goosebumps when first going into Atlantis with its beautiful music. It is Rare at its best!
I think I just like Kazooie slightly more as I prefer its faster pacing. It also feels like Kazooie has more platforming segments which I appreciate. Tooie just sometimes feels too gimmicky and bloated with some of its challenges (although, not nearly as exhausting as Donkey Kong 64). All told, Tooie is still quite a good experience, but I'd rather replay Kazooie as Tooie can be a bit of a slog to replay. I'm not sure I'd still enjoy 100%ing Tooie!😅
Thanks for watching! Totally understandable, I can definitely appreciate why people prefer the more streamlined nature of the first game!
Love the game! It deserves more love! It’s not without issues (dinosaurs, chuffy the train, canary Mary) but it has some great boss fights and the levels are so well designed!
For sure - it has its flaws, but man does it make up for them!
Amazing video, I agree with you 👍🏻 also my favorite game
Thanks so muchm, glad you enjoyed!
30:40 I love to 🎧listen👂🏾 The Jacksons 5’s I want you back remix Banjo Kazooie sound front instrumental 🎼!!!!
Haha glad someone recognised it!
@@Fobb 🙏🏾Do you have the ✨music soundtrack OST🌈 for me to finally 👂🏾enjoy🎼, @Fobb!?
i would have liked it be be a little more linear as at times as i had absolutely no idea what to do or where to go at times
a hint system would have been nice
If they ever remake Tooie in future, I think a map or hint system would go a long way!
The reason a lot of people don’t like tooie is that it’s essentially a search action. It’s a genre that isn’t very popular to this day (as shown by the sales of metroid games time and time again)
Banjo kazooi was so well handcrafted that the puzzle aspect of the game didn’t bother of bore the player. But tooie in the other handl
I feel like the fundamental flaw of Banjo Tooie is that Rare was ahead of their time in terms of innovating level size, but not player movement. So they designed Banjo Kazooie around Banjo's movement, or Banjo's movement around Banjo Kazooie. They were developed hand in hand anyway. Banjo Tooie, they just decided that the natural answer to a sequel was "bigger" without addressing how the base characters themselves are designed around smaller environments and a much smaller world.
The warping silo is a bandaid on a core problem with this game's design, which should have been solved with faster movement somehow. The game is a platformer, people want to jump and platform and have fun. Not wander back and forth from the same warp silos hundreds of times.
I almost 100 percented this game when it came out and i was in 6th grade but that damn Canary Mary kept me from my goal. Im excited to get back to her now that BT is on NSO and i have a hori split pad with a turbo button. Vengeance will be mine.
With the power of a turbo button, victory is assured!
I agree with all of this it’s too bad our favorite Bear and Bird never got a third game in any way shape or form due to the rare buy out but at least they’re in smash ultimate
I still have hope that it'll happen one day!
An all of this without mentioning the sic multiplayer mode!
That was always a blast!
I mean kinda. The worlds are all preference. I love them all but I have my favourites worlds between both games. Love adventures and these games embody that!
As a kid I liked the second one a bit better because of the larger more complex worlds and I also liked the backtracking. But both games are so good!!! I go back and play them both through from time to time.
Kazooie and Tooie are both stellar games!
I'm replaying it and I'm enjoying it far more than 2001, but there is a bit too much back and forth, and I think sticking to just 10 jiggies per level was a bad idea...There's many moments where they could have just awarded you an extra jiggy and improved the sense of reward. It's a game that begs a number of QoL improvements which could fix a lot of the gripes and bring the best out in it. But with that moaning aside it is still absolutely one of the best games on N64 and as you say a techincal masterclass.
I really hope it gets remade one day to address some of its shortcomings 🙏
@@Fobb me too.