Glad to hear another person understands how I feel. There are ways to mix the classic and new formulas together in a way that gives us the best of both worlds but Nintendo has absolutely no desire to do so and it frustrates the absolute hell out of me
I recently discovered your channel just yesterday with this video and the ALBW one and I absolutely adored them (Even though the ALBW video had the music a little loud) Keep up the great work. Very glad to be here at the beggining of a new and very promising channel! I am so happy to hear another person express in words how I really feel about this game. I made a few comments when it first launched and, oh man, it really did felt like you couldn't say anything bad or say that you didn't like Echoes of Wisdom. When I first heard the "You can use these Echoes however you see fit" and saw the "Ultrahand" (Because yeah, of course they NEED to bring it back) make it's comeback, I already had a very bad feeling about this game.
Zelda as the playable could also just been a standard Zelda game, where you go get items, and maybe she has more of a focus on magic spells than Link, (which it's been a while since Link was a spell caster, god, is OoT the last time? He's had magic items, but that's the last time I can remember him actually casting spells directly) Give us the playable Harp like in OoT, to get songs, maybe let us do Shiek things. Just give us that classic top down gameplay, with a different character, give her a staff instead of a sword, but let her directly use it, even if for baby hits of damage while her magic does the real numbers. Or maybe she's been banished to the other world and the game is about her trying to get back to reality. Can really get creative with the settings in that scenario. The best way to sum up Echoes of Wisdom, is this game just felt uninspired.
I mostly enjoyed Echoes of Wisdom despite its design flaws for three crucial reasons: 1) I played on Hero Mode, making combat an actual challenge and forcing me to rely on the bed for healing; 2) I avoided using smoothies as much as possible, _except_ for the ones that heal the energy meter limiting your time as the Link clone. 3) The overworld was *much* smaller than the one in BoTW/TotK; I only started losing patience to explore every nook and cranny after the fifth or sixth dungeon. That said I expect subsequent playthroughs to be difficult mostly because of the sheer amount of unskippable dialogue.
From what I've heard from interviews playing as Zelda wasn't the cause, the desire to force you to use the Echoes system was. They deliberately picked Zelda in the middle of development because players with the ability to play as Link simply did Link stuff to overcome obstacles over experimenting with the system. Zelda wasn't the focus of the gameplay. She was the gameplay solution of a character who would have to rely on echoes, who would also be someone fans would like to play as.
The fact that the entire Oot/MM Modding world is getting so many people more hyped than whatever the heck the Zelda Team is planning right now just puts you in context of how rocky of a situation the fandom is in right now
It's pretty obvious that they're sitting on WW and TP with no plans to release them. Don't want this new gen of fans to find out what a classic Zelda feels like! But I say it can't hurt. Probably not on the Switch at this point, but let the BotW kids try them. Either the Tiktok attention spans can't handle a game that takes actual thought and effort, or people end up liking them and the Zelda team has to realize that what they see as clunky and outdated, a product of restrictions, is actually a legitimately good experience and that restrictions make for good gameplay. Incoherent rant but basically my point is that they don't want the new fans finding out what a good classic Zelda feels like unless it's packaged as a retro game like OoT and MM on the N64 Online.
Yeah. And the crazy part is, all those classics were also gimmick driven convention breakers (TP less so). Aonuma's been doing the same thing since day 1. I imagine what Zelda would be if Aonuma didn't take it over and it truly stuck with more traditional style from Ocarina and LttP and it makes me sad that they keep trusting this franchise to be exclusive to Aonuma's oversight
I loved BOTW, because I saw it as a promising new beginning for the series. All that was needed was bringing back items and dungeons and it was perfect. TOTK was enjoyable but still felt like a betrayal to me, because it’s basically a BOTW 1.5, with little to no new interesting places to explore. (Fuck those sky islands, get my hope too high) EOW is the only Zelda game I dropped, I honestly fear for the series future now.
@@Tjrmalveillant I understand completely. I was never fond of BotW, but I still had hope for the series going forward. I’m glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t like EoW.
Pros and cons + Echoes can feel like getting a new dungeon item + Enemy echoes are balanced - there's no one over-powered echo to run roughshod through everything + Most dungeons feel like classic Zelda - Many echoes lie unused after getting them - Plot-heavy enter the dungeon quests - Usage of Link at game's end made me check out
The echos for monsters would be more interesting, if you transformed into the creatures, rather than sit back and watch. They could have still themed her power set over the use of echos and stuff, but they made it way too open to the point that, beds and water blocks solve 99% of the game. Maybe make the items you can actually copy be more rare, and not a single long list of ... oh my god why is the UI designed like this. They could have done alot more here, but w/e. The game wasn't the worst thing ever, nor was it anything close to a master piece. It just feels like they wanted BoTW/ToTK in 2d.
I haven't played the game myself, but I relate to the points about the combat a whole lot. I prefer action instead of turn-based, and EoW is really similar to the latter. I like to be the one actually doing the fighting, instead of selecting an option and watching it happen. Instead of a specific move in EoW it's a specific echo, pft. I'm not feeling excited for that part of the gameplay, nor does it look particularly engaging. I'm still interested in giving the game a try in the future though Great video!
I'm giving the EoW the benefit of the doubt mostly due to the fact this is the first proper game that allows us to play Zelda who has a different playstyle to Link (of course they ruin it with the sword form). Who knows maybe they'll make a better one......or not, who's to know about Nintendo at this point.
Botw I enjoyed as a 1 off thing, totk I've struggled to play mainly because I hate the weapon system in them. If this is what we have to look forward to going forward then I'm out after 30yrs of playing Loz.
I hope you don’t take offense to this, but I have to disagree with you! The reason why link is the so-called Danzel in distress? First of all explained in the game and even in the trailer that link gets trapped! Inside the Stillworld I mean, seriously it’s in the opening in the game, preventing him from being able to help! And also another section of the game also says that link has been trapped in there along with a group of kids you can see this in one of the places you can visit you could even see the result from that experience, a.k.a. grief and trauma that’s why link actively tries to prevent anyone from getting sucked inside the void! Also, that part about link showing up about nowhere to save Zelda only to get captured also had a reason this is because as I said before, I’ve been trapped in there before and remained unfrozen! Probably due to his connection with the triforce of power anyway (it’s not really worth complaining about in my opinion) since it really only happens because null the main villain catches link by surprise and because he was gonna trap Zelda first before Lincoln stopped him in the nick of time after Zelda disappeared! And even after you freed him know, I probably could’ve shorted this spot like a whole mile! but this is just my opinion at least how I see it and even agree with your point on the game just not being for certain people after all is a huge departure of what we know, kind of similar to breath of the wild was to Zelda formula but at least they also went to introduce a bunch of lore that is significant and some of the reason for why the world of Hyrule exist in the first place anyway that’s enough small talk. Love your video. Keep doing what you’re doing!
@@WillyAfton1935 no offense was taken, I appreciate the comment! I understand that there was an in universe reason for Link to need to be rescued, I just don’t like having to rescue Link in general. Nintendo could have easily come up with a reason for Link to not be playable without him being trapped. Thanks for the kind words, I do plan on making more videos like this in the future.
@@ThePlinkster oh it’s no problem, dude! I hope you continue making good videos and quality content! Anyway, about the Zelda thing… now while I haven’t played the game at least like a good while. I can see where you’re coming from. I mean, I just got off a few minutes ago playing ocarina of time and a few other older games on the N64 and will and I completely understand what you mean! And while I don’t agree with all your points about it being impossible for link to be saved… I’m curious how you have done it? Like if you were in charge of this game, what would you do to change the game? To make it better.
And to be honest, I’m just curious to see your reimagine since you seem like a nice guy! You didn’t make long video on why echoes of wisdom. It’s just the worst Zelda game😓 and completely destroys everything that Zelda was!! AND RUINS THE LOREEEREE COMPLETELY so that’s another plus so uh can’t wait to see how you imagine the game
@@WillyAfton1935 well it’s not that I think it’s impossible for Link to be saved, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to write the game that way. I would much rather have both Link and Zelda playable throughout the entire game than just Zelda. Beyond that, I’m not sure what I’d do to “fix” this game. I think a lot of what makes it not great is a fundamental issue that can’t be fixed without basically making it a different game entirely.
@@ThePlinkster ah So you don’t want to be saved?…. I think I got it! Is it because link is like the self insert? So I imagine Lincoln your eyes is just the type of guy that can never get kidnapped… Well, in my opinion uh while I don’t really think it’s impossible… in my point of view like if captured in a really clever, misleading way, I can imagine he will fall for that since the links themselves are their own separate characters and even though they don’t speak, I believe they have their own faults like for example, ocarina of time link being a bit naïve and overbearing…. and helping… to people who don’t deserve it. Will either way I guess like we can’t really do anything about it anyway I mean the game is already finished. It’s already getting so much praise but at least we have more possibility 2D Zelda. Plus, not all games are going to hit as well as others… and I think we all understand that! But at least there’s a new game coming out soon…. Which may not be Waker HD this time on switch
That one was never my favorite personally, but I definitely understand why people love it. It’s certainly better than any of the games released this past decade or so.
@@Kadaspala this one I won't disagree with even though my opinion is slightly different. I got 3 favs for different t reason. Alttp for it just being the best zelda, twilight princess for it being the best 3d and then skyward sword for the story and certain dungeon design.
As someone whose favorite entry in the series is TP, kinda. It has some improvements over Ocarina of Time that I love, like the horseback combat vastly improving a d general camera controls, as well as quick menuing, but it also would probably not be seen as fondly if Ocarina got the same quality of life improvements. Has some weird issues with landscape design having large open voids of bottomless valleys between map regions and other weird stuff like that. Plus the wolf transformation was really undercooked for the latter half of the game since it really never changes or improves over the course of the game, other than free transforming into the wolf to run faster. Again, it's my favorite entry, but iIcan acknowledge that it only holds that title cause it's art direction is cool, it has a more personal Link, and was able to capitalize on modernized designs that didn't exist back in the 90s. Otherwise it'd be Ocarina for me, and I'm probably more nostalgic for Ocarina at this point, despite playing both games for the first time back to back in like 2009. But yeah, they're close, Ocarina really just needs some QoL TLC. Twilight definitely also needs some TLC, but only cause it's HD remaster was easily the worst of the Zelda remasters (well, Majora's did actually break parts of that game, so maybe that one is worse). Personally, I just plain think Aonuma is the wrong man for the series. He had 1 banger in MM and has been downhill since with some slight moments of hope here and there. Dude lacked something in all of his games. Again, I say this as a TP lover, it was so close to being a perfect iteration of the classic formula, he just messed a few things up for no apparent reason other than wanting to superficially improve things. Same thing he did with TotK after BotW. Copy and paste a ton and then gimmick for the rest and over rely on that gimmick because of some dumb "breaking conventions" obsession of his. And he's been doing that from day 1. TP was the only real traditional Zelda game he made, and even that had some lesser gimmicks like the wolf and tears
I am 45 and my first ever Nintendo game was the original NES Zelda. This game was very underwhelming. I didn't have any issues playing as Zelda as I enjoy playing as mages in other games. I enjoyed the Link's Awakening remake more with it's identical art style. Just goes to prove that bigger doesn't always mean better. I hope Nintendo can do better with future 2D Zeldas. It's my understanding this was originally designed as a dungeon maker game.
Honestly the more I read about what this game almost was, the more I wish that’s what we got instead. Just a spinoff where we make our own dungeons sounds like a much better idea than anything in EoW.
Look, opinions are subjective, and I understand your points to a degree, but Nintendo is not going to listen to you or any of the other detractors for the simple reason that BOTW is the best selling Zelda game of all time, with TOTK being the second best selling one. With that said, it sounds like these games are much more accessible than previous Zelda games, at least by sales numbers. Skyward Sword, on one of the great selling consoles of all time (Wii) only sold 3.67 million units. For context, Link's Crossbow Training on the Wii sold significantly more units (5.79 million), probably because it was a simpler idea and controllers "better" than Skyward Sword. For context, I'm a 41-year-old dude that has been gaming since the late 1980s, and the Zelda franchise has always been my favorite. My desk is literally covered in Zelda merch and paraphernalia. I share what I did because games have to experiment, or else they become obsolete. BOTW was a breath of fresh air for the series, as it felt like a proper 3D version of the original NES game (Meaning how much flexibility you had while still having some linear nature). Personally, I love Echoes of Wisdom. It is simple, but it is a lot of fun and introduced some new concepts to the lore that just add more depth. Also, the way my 9-year-old daughter is obsessed with it right now warms my heart, and there is no criticism that is going to take that away from me. Is it a perfect game? No. But it is great and plays well, and that's all that matters in the end.
You're not wrong. Nintendo clearly has no intention on returning to the old style anytime soon. At the same time I think looking at the sales numbers by themselves doesn't give the whole picture. Skyward Sword sold poorly because it was released on a dying console that was already notorious for being deeply unpopular with the games target audience and required a peripheral that was sold separately to play. The fact that it managed to sell better than Majora's Mask despite sharing so many of the same issues is frankly a miracle. Meanwhile Breath of the Wild was the only noteworthy launch title for a console that not only sold well, but for some reason or another also has disproportionately high attachment rates compared to previous systems. I think to an extent the high sales have less to do with the style of the game and more to do with the context of their releases. If Nintendo could recognize that we could at least get games that alternate between the two styles. I completely understand the need to experiment, I just wish that these experiments could happen on top of the foundation that previous games set instead of replacing them. That's why Majora's Mask is my favorite game in the series. Regardless, I appreciate the comment. I'm glad others are willing to engage with a video they disagree with.
@@ThePlinkster I understand, but I still think experimentation and even accessibility are important elements in game design, to which Nintendo excels in these two areas. Series like Zelda and Metroid have both been on the more challenging side, which means they were both inaccessible for large portions of the gaming community (This affected Metroid significantly more than Zelda). Wind Waker, for example, brought a more soft art style to try and draw more casual sales, but sadly, the game was still challenging (And a chore at points. haha) so sales were not nearly as high as Nintendo hoped (Didn't help that the GC was one of the lowest selling consoles, and WWHD did worse on Wii U). BOTW was the first Zelda game where casual gamers could jump in and feel special, so I think that's why it has garnered so much attention and popularity, including the demand for a direct sequel. Majora's Mask is solid and all, but it less-so feels like a sequel and more-so feels like DLC by today's standards (I would say the same for TOTK as well). In regards to Zelda sequels, A Link Between Worlds feels like the only real proper sequel of the franchise, where everything else feels like stand alones or weird spinoffs. But like I said in the first comment, these are all opinions, and neither of us are "right". haha. We are just expressing how we feel about a franchise we love. I don't care to disagree with someone about games if they are willing to discuss. If someone gets angry, well, I disengage, because it is not worth it in my opinion. :)
Although not Zelsa I love Alundra as it was inspired by zelda but went to a darker route and the gameplay and puzzles are good, along with the story too. Easy recommend for zelda fans
ALL MINE OPINION I really dug BOTW and when it came out it was my first Zelda game that I remember playing when it released. I think it’s a tale of two series for the Zelda franchise. Personally the mid 2000s were when the old style peaked, wind waker and TP both absolutely hit home runes when it came to the “Zelda formula”. These new games are fantastic don’t get me wrong, but TOTK and BOTW feel nothing like the games before it. I think it’s a good change that was honestly needed and both games are fantastic but lack the zeldaisums that make the series so great. As for the actual video topic, I don’t think Grezzo or Nintendo was going 100% for this one. I think they realize there’s a whole demographic of younger kids who are at this point as old as BOTW who struggle with the more difficult games. My sister who’s never played more than a few levels of a Mario game in her life saw this game and immediately wanted it. I think it’s meant for the younger audience and while it’s a fun enough time, it’s no where near the quality of game as TOTK, but also lacks the Zelda feeling that TP or Oot brings. I think their all great games that succeed greatly at different things
Thanks for the comment! I definitely understand the love for Breath of the Wild to an extent. I actually enjoyed it well enough my first time with it too, but as soon as I started playing it a second time I quickly realized that it just isn't as well crafted or substantial as the games that came before it. I personally think that Zelda peaked on the N64, but I still enjoy every Zelda up until Breath of the Wild on some level. Tears of the Kingdom I hated from day one, and it basically killed any hope I had for the series. I can understand that these newer games were maybe meant for a younger kids, but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing for a series that generally appeals to the hardcore audience. Personally I think the classic games were already getting too easy as is.
Shocked and appalled that they used the Botw/Totk food system for a game like this. Combat also looks exceptionally unpleasant, saved me money I may have spent at some point cus this game does not seem to be it.
Echoes of Wisdom was originally meant to be a create-your-own-zelda dungeon game. Built off the barebones dungeon maker of link's awakening remake, the devs were getting annoyed that they weren't making a zelda game with a real focus, so the higher-ups gave them the green light to make it a fully-fledged entry in the series with a proper plot. In an alternate timeline, we would've gotten a Zelda Maker.
Never trust anyone who says that Zelda needs a return to form, They are idiots who don't know what to talk about and blinded by nostalgia. They don't want the series to evolve or change And to be stuck in the pass with them and games like ocarina of time. Thankfully those people and their mindsets are nowhere near the majority of people who buys them or the people who makes the games, So they don't have enough power to hurt the series by holding it back.
It wasn't going to be a classic Zelda game, a developer literally said that the game was going to be a simplified version of whack-a-mole to play with the Wii remote
Zelda fans are never happy But at least some botw/totk haters came around with EoW because it’s actually designed more like a traditional Zelda game. The echoes work because you progressively unlock useful echoes throughout the game and there’s a decent amount of structure alongside open exploration. My only issue with EoW is the scrolling of echoes but other than that it feels like a return to form for the series
@@painuchiha2694 I’d be happy if this “return to form” brought back the basic gameplay loop that made the series fun to begin with instead of just throwing in some minor elements from the classic games and calling it a day. Apart from maybe the cloud, I don’t think I ever encountered a single echo that even came close to being any more useful for puzzle solving and general traversal than the bed was (and the cloud is basically just the bed again but even more mindless). When every puzzle can be solved by spamming the same solution over and over again any new echoes just feel worthless. The combat echoes arent much better since regardless of which one you use the end result just amounts to you standing still while it does all the combat for you. Having a slightly less open structure was definitely a step in the right direction, but that structure is almost never utilized to the games benefit. I think A Link Between Worlds had the same issue. It’s fine if you like this game, but let’s not pretend that it’s this major attempt to appease old fans and just call it what it is: Tears of the Kingdom but from a top-down perspective.
@ There were some great dungeons,great difficulty on hero mode and discovering echoes is your progression system unlocked as you explore. If you went the entire game stacking beds that’s a you problem because there’s plenty of way more efficient echoes. The puzzles of this game are much more than stacking beds to move over obstacles The dungeons are literally indoors with locked doors and aren’t just obstacles course. People will say the combat and difficulty is weak when the bosses in hero mode are aggressive and pose a threat on single hits. You’ll glaze twilight princess while the bosses are all cinematic and won’t even try to attack so I don’t trust anything you have to say there. Echoes of wisdom is far from my favourite but you’re a prime example of nostalgia blind for completely ignoring everything it did well to be more traditional with a mix of modern. You can keep yapping I still think some of y’all traditional fans are lost and confused. You can unlock your vacuum cleaner in skyward sword and feel delighted to push dust away from a switch because that’s the true essence of Zelda
@@ThePlinkster if you criticized the story I would completely understand because that’s the only real issue with EoW having boring characters and script But everything else makes it a great 2D Zelda. I love traditional Zelda games but there’s a lot of glazing over how fun those are. I would replay oot mm WW and tp just to relive the story but there’s soo much tedious dungeons and shit in those games. The modern Zelda is where it’s fun but the stories are lacklustre
@@painuchiha2694 it doesn’t matter if the other solutions were “more efficient.” Beds were still a painfully easy solution to 90% of all puzzles in EoW. That’s what makes the progression flop so hard. Theres no thought required for a puzzle that has the exact same solution as the last one. Your defense of the dungeons is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. It doesn’t matter that there are locked doors. The dungeons also had locked doors in LBW and that game is very much not a traditional Zelda. It’s an improvement from the previous two games but it doesn’t even come close to being similar to any of the games prior to BotW aside from _maybe_ LBW. I’m not “glazing” Twilight Princess. In fact that’s by far my least favorite classic Zelda, and I agree that the bosses aren’t good. Please don’t put words in my mouth. Regardless of the boss difficulty, that’s not my issue with the combat. My issue with the combat is that it’s incredibly passive. I’m not ignoring anything it did. I even directly acknowledge the fact that they attempt to bring back classic elements. The criticism is that none of those elements are implemented particularly well and they don’t go far enough. I do criticize the story. I spend a good 8 minutes of the video doing that. I think it’s one of the worst aspects of this game. That doesn’t mean the gameplay is any better. Those “tedious dungeons” are exactly what made the games fun. They required actual thought and effort to navigate. You can’t just use the exact same mindless solution for every puzzle like you can in EoW or TotK.
@ Tediousness is what made those games fun. Thanks for proving my point you are delusional 🤣 There was no point in arguing with a nostalgia blind person In defense of older titles, these games had some few very great dungeons each that were satisfying but most of them had tedious boring snoozing dungeons If I want to replay Oot the first 3 dungeons are such a chore to replay and especially the water dungeon and the rest are great. It’s not much an issue with any of the modern Zelda because you can achieve the puzzles in different ways making replay more satisfying. I’m looking forward to replaying EoW permadeath run hero mode and there’s so many different ways I can replay it. Majora is the best Zelda by far but unfortunately half of the 4 dungeons are kinda lame and I’m not a fan of tedious shit cause I’m not deluded by nostalgia.
"Zelda's in a rocky position right now" im so glad yall are the vocal minority and Nintendo ignores people like you. If they did? We'd be stuck with the boring OoT knock offs and linear hallways with side kick characters that hold the players hand and spoil puzzles
What about OoT, MM, WW, TP? Those were also made for kids yet they're still great games, case in point I'm currently playing Wind Waker despite being 21. Being made for kids is not an excuse for being bad.
@ThePlinkster you've been having tantrums all over this video because you found out most don't agree with your shit takes. My guy, it's OK that you're an incel but crying about video games when you're a failing UA-camr for clicks to try and grow your channel is hilarious 😘
Breath of the Wild is my favorite, but it definitely doesn’t hold your hand. I wandered for many hours. Other than that, the original nes version is my second. There is a graphical upgrade on the satelliview version.
It seems like people tend to think sameness and diversity are opposed to each other. They are not. They actually complement each other.
Glad to hear another person understands how I feel. There are ways to mix the classic and new formulas together in a way that gives us the best of both worlds but Nintendo has absolutely no desire to do so and it frustrates the absolute hell out of me
@@wishingstar8701 to be honest, I’m not entirely convinced that there are ways to properly do that.
I recently discovered your channel just yesterday with this video and the ALBW one and I absolutely adored them (Even though the ALBW video had the music a little loud) Keep up the great work. Very glad to be here at the beggining of a new and very promising channel!
I am so happy to hear another person express in words how I really feel about this game. I made a few comments when it first launched and, oh man, it really did felt like you couldn't say anything bad or say that you didn't like Echoes of Wisdom. When I first heard the "You can use these Echoes however you see fit" and saw the "Ultrahand" (Because yeah, of course they NEED to bring it back) make it's comeback, I already had a very bad feeling about this game.
Zelda as the playable could also just been a standard Zelda game, where you go get items, and maybe she has more of a focus on magic spells than Link, (which it's been a while since Link was a spell caster, god, is OoT the last time? He's had magic items, but that's the last time I can remember him actually casting spells directly) Give us the playable Harp like in OoT, to get songs, maybe let us do Shiek things. Just give us that classic top down gameplay, with a different character, give her a staff instead of a sword, but let her directly use it, even if for baby hits of damage while her magic does the real numbers. Or maybe she's been banished to the other world and the game is about her trying to get back to reality. Can really get creative with the settings in that scenario.
The best way to sum up Echoes of Wisdom, is this game just felt uninspired.
I mostly enjoyed Echoes of Wisdom despite its design flaws for three crucial reasons:
1) I played on Hero Mode, making combat an actual challenge and forcing me to rely on the bed for healing;
2) I avoided using smoothies as much as possible, _except_ for the ones that heal the energy meter limiting your time as the Link clone.
3) The overworld was *much* smaller than the one in BoTW/TotK; I only started losing patience to explore every nook and cranny after the fifth or sixth dungeon.
That said I expect subsequent playthroughs to be difficult mostly because of the sheer amount of unskippable dialogue.
From what I've heard from interviews playing as Zelda wasn't the cause, the desire to force you to use the Echoes system was. They deliberately picked Zelda in the middle of development because players with the ability to play as Link simply did Link stuff to overcome obstacles over experimenting with the system.
Zelda wasn't the focus of the gameplay. She was the gameplay solution of a character who would have to rely on echoes, who would also be someone fans would like to play as.
The fan romhack "Zelda Indigo Episode 2" is better than any Zelda post-Skyward Sword
@@ThatGuy-ky2yf i’ve seen that romhack floating around, it really does look good!
The fact that the entire Oot/MM Modding world is getting so many people more hyped than whatever the heck the Zelda Team is planning right now just puts you in context of how rocky of a situation the fandom is in right now
It's pretty obvious that they're sitting on WW and TP with no plans to release them. Don't want this new gen of fans to find out what a classic Zelda feels like! But I say it can't hurt. Probably not on the Switch at this point, but let the BotW kids try them. Either the Tiktok attention spans can't handle a game that takes actual thought and effort, or people end up liking them and the Zelda team has to realize that what they see as clunky and outdated, a product of restrictions, is actually a legitimately good experience and that restrictions make for good gameplay. Incoherent rant but basically my point is that they don't want the new fans finding out what a good classic Zelda feels like unless it's packaged as a retro game like OoT and MM on the N64 Online.
That’s the most stupid take I’ve seen in a long while
Yeah. And the crazy part is, all those classics were also gimmick driven convention breakers (TP less so). Aonuma's been doing the same thing since day 1. I imagine what Zelda would be if Aonuma didn't take it over and it truly stuck with more traditional style from Ocarina and LttP and it makes me sad that they keep trusting this franchise to be exclusive to Aonuma's oversight
Nice video, im so happy to be this early on a new channel that will grow big!
@@danielalvarez0 thank you! I’m glad others have faith in me!
I loved BOTW, because I saw it as a promising new beginning for the series. All that was needed was bringing back items and dungeons and it was perfect. TOTK was enjoyable but still felt like a betrayal to me, because it’s basically a BOTW 1.5, with little to no new interesting places to explore. (Fuck those sky islands, get my hope too high)
EOW is the only Zelda game I dropped, I honestly fear for the series future now.
@@Tjrmalveillant I understand completely. I was never fond of BotW, but I still had hope for the series going forward. I’m glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t like EoW.
Pros and cons
+ Echoes can feel like getting a new dungeon item
+ Enemy echoes are balanced - there's no one over-powered echo to run roughshod through everything
+ Most dungeons feel like classic Zelda
- Many echoes lie unused after getting them
- Plot-heavy enter the dungeon quests
- Usage of Link at game's end made me check out
The echos for monsters would be more interesting, if you transformed into the creatures, rather than sit back and watch. They could have still themed her power set over the use of echos and stuff, but they made it way too open to the point that, beds and water blocks solve 99% of the game. Maybe make the items you can actually copy be more rare, and not a single long list of ... oh my god why is the UI designed like this.
They could have done alot more here, but w/e. The game wasn't the worst thing ever, nor was it anything close to a master piece. It just feels like they wanted BoTW/ToTK in 2d.
I haven't played the game myself, but I relate to the points about the combat a whole lot. I prefer action instead of turn-based, and EoW is really similar to the latter. I like to be the one actually doing the fighting, instead of selecting an option and watching it happen. Instead of a specific move in EoW it's a specific echo, pft. I'm not feeling excited for that part of the gameplay, nor does it look particularly engaging. I'm still interested in giving the game a try in the future though
Great video!
I'm giving the EoW the benefit of the doubt mostly due to the fact this is the first proper game that allows us to play Zelda who has a different playstyle to Link (of course they ruin it with the sword form). Who knows maybe they'll make a better one......or not, who's to know about Nintendo at this point.
Botw I enjoyed as a 1 off thing, totk I've struggled to play mainly because I hate the weapon system in them.
If this is what we have to look forward to going forward then I'm out after 30yrs of playing Loz.
I hope you don’t take offense to this, but I have to disagree with you! The reason why link is the so-called Danzel in distress? First of all explained in the game and even in the trailer that link gets trapped! Inside the Stillworld I mean, seriously it’s in the opening in the game, preventing him from being able to help! And also another section of the game also says that link has been trapped in there along with a group of kids you can see this in one of the places you can visit you could even see the result from that experience, a.k.a. grief and trauma that’s why link actively tries to prevent anyone from getting sucked inside the void! Also, that part about link showing up about nowhere to save Zelda only to get captured also had a reason this is because as I said before, I’ve been trapped in there before and remained unfrozen! Probably due to his connection with the triforce of power anyway (it’s not really worth complaining about in my opinion) since it really only happens because null the main villain catches link by surprise and because he was gonna trap Zelda first before Lincoln stopped him in the nick of time after Zelda disappeared! And even after you freed him know, I probably could’ve shorted this spot like a whole mile! but this is just my opinion at least how I see it and even agree with your point on the game just not being for certain people after all is a huge departure of what we know, kind of similar to breath of the wild was to Zelda formula but at least they also went to introduce a bunch of lore that is significant and some of the reason for why the world of Hyrule exist in the first place anyway that’s enough small talk. Love your video. Keep doing what you’re doing!
@@WillyAfton1935 no offense was taken, I appreciate the comment! I understand that there was an in universe reason for Link to need to be rescued, I just don’t like having to rescue Link in general. Nintendo could have easily come up with a reason for Link to not be playable without him being trapped.
Thanks for the kind words, I do plan on making more videos like this in the future.
@@ThePlinkster oh it’s no problem, dude! I hope you continue making good videos and quality content! Anyway, about the Zelda thing… now while I haven’t played the game at least like a good while. I can see where you’re coming from. I mean, I just got off a few minutes ago playing ocarina of time and a few other older games on the N64 and will and I completely understand what you mean! And while I don’t agree with all your points about it being impossible for link to be saved… I’m curious how you have done it? Like if you were in charge of this game, what would you do to change the game? To make it better.
And to be honest, I’m just curious to see your reimagine since you seem like a nice guy! You didn’t make long video on why echoes of wisdom. It’s just the worst Zelda game😓 and completely destroys everything that Zelda was!! AND RUINS THE LOREEEREE COMPLETELY so that’s another plus so uh can’t wait to see how you imagine the game
@@WillyAfton1935 well it’s not that I think it’s impossible for Link to be saved, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to write the game that way. I would much rather have both Link and Zelda playable throughout the entire game than just Zelda.
Beyond that, I’m not sure what I’d do to “fix” this game. I think a lot of what makes it not great is a fundamental issue that can’t be fixed without basically making it a different game entirely.
@@ThePlinkster ah So you don’t want to be saved?…. I think I got it! Is it because link is like the self insert? So I imagine Lincoln your eyes is just the type of guy that can never get kidnapped… Well, in my opinion uh while I don’t really think it’s impossible… in my point of view like if captured in a really clever, misleading way, I can imagine he will fall for that since the links themselves are their own separate characters and even though they don’t speak, I believe they have their own faults like for example, ocarina of time link being a bit naïve and overbearing…. and helping… to people who don’t deserve it. Will either way I guess like we can’t really do anything about it anyway I mean the game is already finished. It’s already getting so much praise but at least we have more possibility 2D Zelda. Plus, not all games are going to hit as well as others… and I think we all understand that! But at least there’s a new game coming out soon…. Which may not be Waker HD this time on switch
Came from your LBW review... saw this video - i subscribed to your bell.
Twilight Princess is the peak of the franchise, debate me.
That one was never my favorite personally, but I definitely understand why people love it. It’s certainly better than any of the games released this past decade or so.
I won’t, it perfectly builds apon what Oot did so well, and it’s one of the most immersive story’s in the whole series
Link to the Past is the peak of the franchise. But Twilight Princess is admittedly the peak of the 3D games at least.
@@Kadaspala this one I won't disagree with even though my opinion is slightly different. I got 3 favs for different t reason. Alttp for it just being the best zelda, twilight princess for it being the best 3d and then skyward sword for the story and certain dungeon design.
As someone whose favorite entry in the series is TP, kinda. It has some improvements over Ocarina of Time that I love, like the horseback combat vastly improving a d general camera controls, as well as quick menuing, but it also would probably not be seen as fondly if Ocarina got the same quality of life improvements. Has some weird issues with landscape design having large open voids of bottomless valleys between map regions and other weird stuff like that. Plus the wolf transformation was really undercooked for the latter half of the game since it really never changes or improves over the course of the game, other than free transforming into the wolf to run faster. Again, it's my favorite entry, but iIcan acknowledge that it only holds that title cause it's art direction is cool, it has a more personal Link, and was able to capitalize on modernized designs that didn't exist back in the 90s. Otherwise it'd be Ocarina for me, and I'm probably more nostalgic for Ocarina at this point, despite playing both games for the first time back to back in like 2009. But yeah, they're close, Ocarina really just needs some QoL TLC. Twilight definitely also needs some TLC, but only cause it's HD remaster was easily the worst of the Zelda remasters (well, Majora's did actually break parts of that game, so maybe that one is worse).
Personally, I just plain think Aonuma is the wrong man for the series. He had 1 banger in MM and has been downhill since with some slight moments of hope here and there. Dude lacked something in all of his games. Again, I say this as a TP lover, it was so close to being a perfect iteration of the classic formula, he just messed a few things up for no apparent reason other than wanting to superficially improve things. Same thing he did with TotK after BotW. Copy and paste a ton and then gimmick for the rest and over rely on that gimmick because of some dumb "breaking conventions" obsession of his. And he's been doing that from day 1. TP was the only real traditional Zelda game he made, and even that had some lesser gimmicks like the wolf and tears
I am 45 and my first ever Nintendo game was the original NES Zelda. This game was very underwhelming. I didn't have any issues playing as Zelda as I enjoy playing as mages in other games. I enjoyed the Link's Awakening remake more with it's identical art style. Just goes to prove that bigger doesn't always mean better. I hope Nintendo can do better with future 2D Zeldas. It's my understanding this was originally designed as a dungeon maker game.
Honestly the more I read about what this game almost was, the more I wish that’s what we got instead. Just a spinoff where we make our own dungeons sounds like a much better idea than anything in EoW.
This is so weird to me. I loved all of them.
Look, opinions are subjective, and I understand your points to a degree, but Nintendo is not going to listen to you or any of the other detractors for the simple reason that BOTW is the best selling Zelda game of all time, with TOTK being the second best selling one. With that said, it sounds like these games are much more accessible than previous Zelda games, at least by sales numbers. Skyward Sword, on one of the great selling consoles of all time (Wii) only sold 3.67 million units. For context, Link's Crossbow Training on the Wii sold significantly more units (5.79 million), probably because it was a simpler idea and controllers "better" than Skyward Sword.
For context, I'm a 41-year-old dude that has been gaming since the late 1980s, and the Zelda franchise has always been my favorite. My desk is literally covered in Zelda merch and paraphernalia. I share what I did because games have to experiment, or else they become obsolete. BOTW was a breath of fresh air for the series, as it felt like a proper 3D version of the original NES game (Meaning how much flexibility you had while still having some linear nature). Personally, I love Echoes of Wisdom. It is simple, but it is a lot of fun and introduced some new concepts to the lore that just add more depth. Also, the way my 9-year-old daughter is obsessed with it right now warms my heart, and there is no criticism that is going to take that away from me. Is it a perfect game? No. But it is great and plays well, and that's all that matters in the end.
You're not wrong. Nintendo clearly has no intention on returning to the old style anytime soon. At the same time I think looking at the sales numbers by themselves doesn't give the whole picture. Skyward Sword sold poorly because it was released on a dying console that was already notorious for being deeply unpopular with the games target audience and required a peripheral that was sold separately to play. The fact that it managed to sell better than Majora's Mask despite sharing so many of the same issues is frankly a miracle. Meanwhile Breath of the Wild was the only noteworthy launch title for a console that not only sold well, but for some reason or another also has disproportionately high attachment rates compared to previous systems. I think to an extent the high sales have less to do with the style of the game and more to do with the context of their releases. If Nintendo could recognize that we could at least get games that alternate between the two styles. I completely understand the need to experiment, I just wish that these experiments could happen on top of the foundation that previous games set instead of replacing them. That's why Majora's Mask is my favorite game in the series.
Regardless, I appreciate the comment. I'm glad others are willing to engage with a video they disagree with.
@@ThePlinkster I understand, but I still think experimentation and even accessibility are important elements in game design, to which Nintendo excels in these two areas. Series like Zelda and Metroid have both been on the more challenging side, which means they were both inaccessible for large portions of the gaming community (This affected Metroid significantly more than Zelda). Wind Waker, for example, brought a more soft art style to try and draw more casual sales, but sadly, the game was still challenging (And a chore at points. haha) so sales were not nearly as high as Nintendo hoped (Didn't help that the GC was one of the lowest selling consoles, and WWHD did worse on Wii U). BOTW was the first Zelda game where casual gamers could jump in and feel special, so I think that's why it has garnered so much attention and popularity, including the demand for a direct sequel.
Majora's Mask is solid and all, but it less-so feels like a sequel and more-so feels like DLC by today's standards (I would say the same for TOTK as well). In regards to Zelda sequels, A Link Between Worlds feels like the only real proper sequel of the franchise, where everything else feels like stand alones or weird spinoffs.
But like I said in the first comment, these are all opinions, and neither of us are "right". haha. We are just expressing how we feel about a franchise we love. I don't care to disagree with someone about games if they are willing to discuss. If someone gets angry, well, I disengage, because it is not worth it in my opinion. :)
Although not Zelsa I love Alundra as it was inspired by zelda but went to a darker route and the gameplay and puzzles are good, along with the story too.
Easy recommend for zelda fans
@@silverhairedwanderer9806 nice, I’ll have to check it out!
I don’t agree with most of your takes but you are a very good arguer. I subbed
Thanks!
ALL MINE OPINION
I really dug BOTW and when it came out it was my first Zelda game that I remember playing when it released. I think it’s a tale of two series for the Zelda franchise. Personally the mid 2000s were when the old style peaked, wind waker and TP both absolutely hit home runes when it came to the “Zelda formula”. These new games are fantastic don’t get me wrong, but TOTK and BOTW feel nothing like the games before it. I think it’s a good change that was honestly needed and both games are fantastic but lack the zeldaisums that make the series so great. As for the actual video topic, I don’t think Grezzo or Nintendo was going 100% for this one. I think they realize there’s a whole demographic of younger kids who are at this point as old as BOTW who struggle with the more difficult games. My sister who’s never played more than a few levels of a Mario game in her life saw this game and immediately wanted it. I think it’s meant for the younger audience and while it’s a fun enough time, it’s no where near the quality of game as TOTK, but also lacks the Zelda feeling that TP or Oot brings. I think their all great games that succeed greatly at different things
Thanks for the comment! I definitely understand the love for Breath of the Wild to an extent. I actually enjoyed it well enough my first time with it too, but as soon as I started playing it a second time I quickly realized that it just isn't as well crafted or substantial as the games that came before it. I personally think that Zelda peaked on the N64, but I still enjoy every Zelda up until Breath of the Wild on some level. Tears of the Kingdom I hated from day one, and it basically killed any hope I had for the series.
I can understand that these newer games were maybe meant for a younger kids, but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing for a series that generally appeals to the hardcore audience. Personally I think the classic games were already getting too easy as is.
Great job on the video!
Keep it up man your channel is going places! Loved this video
Shocked and appalled that they used the Botw/Totk food system for a game like this. Combat also looks exceptionally unpleasant, saved me money I may have spent at some point cus this game does not seem to be it.
I had extreme fun playing the game. I loved the combat and the dungeons were awesome. Story was really good.
o3o
I too enjoyed it, but I don't think this video is for us, @@hirotashi5950
Echoes of Wisdom was originally meant to be a create-your-own-zelda dungeon game. Built off the barebones dungeon maker of link's awakening remake, the devs were getting annoyed that they weren't making a zelda game with a real focus, so the higher-ups gave them the green light to make it a fully-fledged entry in the series with a proper plot. In an alternate timeline, we would've gotten a Zelda Maker.
@@dragnjames2190 I’ve seen those interviews. It’s a shame because that would’ve been so much better.
Never trust anyone who says that Zelda needs a return to form, They are idiots who don't know what to talk about and blinded by nostalgia. They don't want the series to evolve or change And to be stuck in the pass with them and games like ocarina of time. Thankfully those people and their mindsets are nowhere near the majority of people who buys them or the people who makes the games, So they don't have enough power to hurt the series by holding it back.
Actually RetroStudios (DKC Returns & Metroid Prime) was working on a Sheik-Zelda game at one point but Nintendo rejected the concept...
@@richardqustmrk Yes, I’m well aware. I’m sure it would’ve been much better than this.
It wasn't going to be a classic Zelda game, a developer literally said that the game was going to be a simplified version of whack-a-mole to play with the Wii remote
Nice video to wind the day down. Keep it up!
Zelda fans are never happy
But at least some botw/totk haters came around with EoW because it’s actually designed more like a traditional Zelda game.
The echoes work because you progressively unlock useful echoes throughout the game and there’s a decent amount of structure alongside open exploration.
My only issue with EoW is the scrolling of echoes but other than that it feels like a return to form for the series
@@painuchiha2694 I’d be happy if this “return to form” brought back the basic gameplay loop that made the series fun to begin with instead of just throwing in some minor elements from the classic games and calling it a day.
Apart from maybe the cloud, I don’t think I ever encountered a single echo that even came close to being any more useful for puzzle solving and general traversal than the bed was (and the cloud is basically just the bed again but even more mindless). When every puzzle can be solved by spamming the same solution over and over again any new echoes just feel worthless. The combat echoes arent much better since regardless of which one you use the end result just amounts to you standing still while it does all the combat for you. Having a slightly less open structure was definitely a step in the right direction, but that structure is almost never utilized to the games benefit. I think A Link Between Worlds had the same issue.
It’s fine if you like this game, but let’s not pretend that it’s this major attempt to appease old fans and just call it what it is: Tears of the Kingdom but from a top-down perspective.
@
There were some great dungeons,great difficulty on hero mode and discovering echoes is your progression system unlocked as you explore.
If you went the entire game stacking beds that’s a you problem because there’s plenty of way more efficient echoes.
The puzzles of this game are much more than stacking beds to move over obstacles
The dungeons are literally indoors with locked doors and aren’t just obstacles course.
People will say the combat and difficulty is weak when the bosses in hero mode are aggressive and pose a threat on single hits.
You’ll glaze twilight princess while the bosses are all cinematic and won’t even try to attack so I don’t trust anything you have to say there.
Echoes of wisdom is far from my favourite but you’re a prime example of nostalgia blind for completely ignoring everything it did well to be more traditional with a mix of modern.
You can keep yapping I still think some of y’all traditional fans are lost and confused.
You can unlock your vacuum cleaner in skyward sword and feel delighted to push dust away from a switch because that’s the true essence of Zelda
@@ThePlinkster if you criticized the story I would completely understand because that’s the only real issue with EoW having boring characters and script
But everything else makes it a great 2D Zelda.
I love traditional Zelda games but there’s a lot of glazing over how fun those are.
I would replay oot mm WW and tp just to relive the story but there’s soo much tedious dungeons and shit in those games.
The modern Zelda is where it’s fun but the stories are lacklustre
@@painuchiha2694 it doesn’t matter if the other solutions were “more efficient.” Beds were still a painfully easy solution to 90% of all puzzles in EoW. That’s what makes the progression flop so hard. Theres no thought required for a puzzle that has the exact same solution as the last one.
Your defense of the dungeons is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. It doesn’t matter that there are locked doors. The dungeons also had locked doors in LBW and that game is very much not a traditional Zelda. It’s an improvement from the previous two games but it doesn’t even come close to being similar to any of the games prior to BotW aside from _maybe_ LBW.
I’m not “glazing” Twilight Princess. In fact that’s by far my least favorite classic Zelda, and I agree that the bosses aren’t good. Please don’t put words in my mouth. Regardless of the boss difficulty, that’s not my issue with the combat. My issue with the combat is that it’s incredibly passive.
I’m not ignoring anything it did. I even directly acknowledge the fact that they attempt to bring back classic elements. The criticism is that none of those elements are implemented particularly well and they don’t go far enough.
I do criticize the story. I spend a good 8 minutes of the video doing that. I think it’s one of the worst aspects of this game. That doesn’t mean the gameplay is any better.
Those “tedious dungeons” are exactly what made the games fun. They required actual thought and effort to navigate. You can’t just use the exact same mindless solution for every puzzle like you can in EoW or TotK.
@ Tediousness is what made those games fun.
Thanks for proving my point you are delusional 🤣
There was no point in arguing with a nostalgia blind person
In defense of older titles, these games had some few very great dungeons each that were satisfying but most of them had tedious boring snoozing dungeons
If I want to replay Oot the first 3 dungeons are such a chore to replay and especially the water dungeon and the rest are great.
It’s not much an issue with any of the modern Zelda because you can achieve the puzzles in different ways making replay more satisfying.
I’m looking forward to replaying EoW permadeath run hero mode and there’s so many different ways I can replay it.
Majora is the best Zelda by far but unfortunately half of the 4 dungeons are kinda lame and I’m not a fan of tedious shit cause I’m not deluded by nostalgia.
"Zelda's in a rocky position right now" im so glad yall are the vocal minority and Nintendo ignores people like you. If they did? We'd be stuck with the boring OoT knock offs and linear hallways with side kick characters that hold the players hand and spoil puzzles
I don't like EoW personally but this review has to be the dumbest thing I've seen in a while lol
@@chooongusbug724 literally nobody is asking for that, but go off.
@@ThePlinkster i see why you only have a small number of subs, your content sucks 😘
@@ThePlinkster ...that's my whole point, no one is asking for Zelda to go back but the vocal minority like yourself. Glad we agree 😘
@@chooongusbug724 sure buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.
This game wasn't made for you. Nintendo makes this kind of games for kids.😊
@@Mario-q1p7o if Nintendo doesn’t want to make Zelda games for the people who like Zelda games then they should probably rethink their priorities.
Do children deserve a game that sucks?
What about OoT, MM, WW, TP? Those were also made for kids yet they're still great games, case in point I'm currently playing Wind Waker despite being 21. Being made for kids is not an excuse for being bad.
@Chevywolf30 Those games were more for teens, they were mature. EoW is cartoon like. Kids like cartoons.
@@Mario-q1p7o Please Google "The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker" since you've clearly never heard of it.
This dude absolutely eats paint chips and absolutely hasnt touched grass in the better part of a decade
@@JohnnyBoiiiiiiiii2004 I’m sorry I hurt your little feelings because I don’t like your favorite baby game 😃
@ThePlinkster I don't like Echoes of Wisdom, your responses to people who do are why I posted this. Touch grass, you're a meme
@@JohnnyBoiiiiiiiii2004 suuurrreee. Your little tantrum in the other comment chain seems to imply otherwise, lol.
@ThePlinkster you've been having tantrums all over this video because you found out most don't agree with your shit takes. My guy, it's OK that you're an incel but crying about video games when you're a failing UA-camr for clicks to try and grow your channel is hilarious 😘
@@ThePlinkster the incel continues
Breath of the Wild is my favorite, but it definitely doesn’t hold your hand. I wandered for many hours. Other than that, the original nes version is my second. There is a graphical upgrade on the satelliview version.