I think something else that might contribute to the fact that this mechanic feels a bit more egregious to deal with than usual is actually just strives screen space. In older games the reason all these reversals have incredibly large hitboxes and screen coverage is due to the fact that there were several situations where they could realistically just whiff even on opponents who are decently close to you. In strive everyone’s so close to each other that making a dp whiff on wake-up basically means sacrificing all of your oki on a read that might not happen and then will legitimately can get you killed, especially if the opponent knows you’re attempting to bait it.
I mean most reads carry risk and while screen space has changed. Most hitboxes are still similar so the only real effect would be on jump ins and utilizing dp as an anti air is a core feature
Sounds like a feedback loop 🤔 the strike throw characters are stronger which is answered well with DP, which is generally found in... the stronger strike throw characters In summary, characters without DPs should be cheating more 👍
I think the biggest issue with it is it makes rounds way more one sided, of ky or leo or sol get an early lead, its really hard to fight back because even if I worm out of their offence, you have to completely give up oki in a really telegraphed way or the DP character just ignorantly spends 50 meter to steal a turn again.
Interesting point about the strength of DP characters right now being tied to the fact that a lot of the strong offense is strike-throw oriented. I didn't think about that!
The fact that dp on block is safe with meter is just… so stupid imo. To bait dp you HAVE to make them whiff or grab them. If you block their dp you just don’t get a punish and you have to go on the defensive
In terms of reward, dp needs some major increase in initial combo decay (which affects gravity, meter, and burst gain) along with major increases to risc loss so dp rc doesn't do much damage (sorta like red WA combos right now). Sol, KY, and Leo players wouldn't have their h dps nerfed since those aren't actual meterless reversals. Besides getting rid of dp rc on block, you could also hard code meterless reversals to not build any meter when performing them or even reduce tension pulse
These are great points. DPs being more valuable seems like a general issue when neutral skips are given to every character. For instance, SF6 and GBVR also have top tiers dominated by characters with good reversals. To put it another way, when every character has access to a neutral skip, characters without meterless reversals suffer.
I don’t think DPs would be an issue if this game wasn’t so one sided and explosive. Especially characters like Sol, and Leo who don’t really have to worry too much about playing defense when they have something extra to help them unlike other characters who rely on resources for their DP. It gives these characters such an advantage when they have suffocating offense and a meterless DP to help them get back in the game more often. In past games it wasn’t as big of a deal because those games have multiple interactions due to the many options you have along with how much health was distributed. In Strive you can die in one to two interactions while also having less options than past games. That’s what makes DPs feel so strong. You want to maintain your offense but you always have to be ready for the reversal in the back of your mind.
The lack depth in term of mechanics in ST compared to Xrd just makes DP's stronger. The game on a base level just makes certain options stronger than they once were. But unlike in games like SF or a tag team game, being able to RC and combo after just exasperates the issue.
I dont think the issue is with dps in general, but WHO they're giving dps to and how effective / punishing to get hit by said characters dps. Sols dp should not be as good as it is when he has all of the benefits that he has.
The combination of RRC scaling, WA HKD on wallbreak and Fast RC meter refund and regeneration penalty removal all contribute to one hit potentially leading to positive bonus offense and having to guess for your life as a defender. Adding higher scaling to DP and nerfing positive bonus would imo do a lot of good in general.
@@Xander240Pro Reminder that no matter if the character has dp or not, positive bonus offense is one of the most degenerate things in the game atm. The game is way better off without positive bonus offense that loops into itself and has at least 4 high low mixups that all lead into super WB/WA WB because positive regenerates your burst.
Finally a great comment regarding meterless reversals. I think there is a very safe approach to balancing it out but it’s just don’t remove it from a game like STRIVE. (Remove knockdown from WA or positive bonus post WB, Add more scaling to DPs). I personally think DP RC should remove all wild assault and wallbreak benefits including the break damage.
Personally im okay with having DP RCable on hit. Perhaps lower it's scaling a bit but im okay even without that, when i get hit by dp it feels deserved imo since i left a gap for them to do the input and i didn't bait and punish it. What makes me go insane is DP -> RC on block. It feels like a free get out of jail card which can pretty much be used anytime to get a turn back without ANY risk to it(unless you grab them on wake up which is a really hard read). You pretty much lose your turn on THEIR wake up for winning in neutral and there is 0 things you can do about it. More over than that, just like you said in the video, some characters can do a mixup in this situation or even setup their win condition (bridget WA into yoyo). So you pretty much not only lose your turn but get into an objectively awful situation for successfully knockdowning your opponent unless you do highest commitement stuff to counter it.
Yeah I main Bedman and second Ram, and it almost always seems better to hide behind an error or 5h's disjoint or even fuckin ondo because that way, worst i get is neutral
It's not that the concept of a Dragon Punch in a fighting game is without its natural counters (Especially in an Anime Fighter where safejumps exist) but rather it's one of the few fighting games where having your DP blocked doesn't result in immediate traditional punishment (Saving RC as a get-out-of-jail free card on top of actually turning someone else's oki into your turn)
I really like DP-RC in that it allows the defensive player to spend meter for an attempt at getting out of jail. I don't like all the benefits it gives, and WA giving HKD on wallbreak tipped that balance into an unreasonably disproportionate risk-reward situation. I can have the world for 50 bar if I guess right in a gap, probably not what we want. I think though, that this is much more an issue with the current gameflow and dramatic snowballiness of the game rather than with DP RC. Not only are DP characters the only ones who can reverse the snowball this hard, but they also tend to be the characters who can run away with their own snowball the most dramatically. It could definitely get a nerf and it would probably be for the best, but I don't think the overarching issue would be remedied. Strive players also seem to want to run brain-off offense, which is lame. Strong defensive options, especially those that hard punish formulaic pressure, are sick.
DPs should NEVER be cancelable on block in literally any fighter. The point of a dp is to get people the hell off of you not to get out of every situation where you are being out footsied or you are super desperate to force a 50 50. If they get nerfed i will not feel bad for any characters effected by this change. They nerfed backwards moving specials so i think nerfing DPs is a great idea.
Personally, i always dislike it when defensive options allow you to fully reverse a situation, instead of returning to neutral or at most gaining some advantage. It feels like you are allowed to win after making bad decisions.
Wouldn’t you be rewarded though for not spending your resources on offense earlier so you can use it later when you need to turn the tides? Also to get the meter in the first place you had to have been making good decisions earlier right?
@@CodeTetsu It's not that you shouldn't have metered defensive options. I like it when your reward for saving meter is getting a chance for turning the tides, not doing a full 180. Also, you can gain plenty meter from getting hit, wich i think is fine, cause snowballing also sucks, but you do gain meter for making bad decisions.
They definitely tried to get ahead of this when designing Strive by making DP's throwable, but with how scary throws are to do in this game it's tough to feel good about taking that risk a lot of the time. Separately, re: 'chars don't feel built/balanced around having the option', I definitely don't disagree, but thinking about it I'd almost say that's because it's supposed to be the opposite in this game. Like, it feels like the other chars are (in theory) supposed to be built around lacking that option, thinking about characters like Nago, Ram, Milia, where you can point to things they have that's good enough to justify them not having that option as well. Something about defining these things from the positive or negative perspective (those who have it vs. those who don't), if that makes sense. (not that I'm sayin the execution on this is perfect of course, just like a different framework to think from).
Man I remember when I was learning Strive I was getting blown up repeatedly trying to time "throw oki" like it's Fantasy Strike or something, only to find that 1. Throw Ranges are absolutely tiny in this game and 2. You have quite a few "throw invulnerable" frames on wakeup in addition to your normal invulnerable frames.
If the risk reward balance on that shit is off, just make it so whiffing a DP causes a vulnerable state where you take more damage for a bit. Also nerf wild assault.
I'd make any one of these changes to make DP RC at least a little bit more fair: 1. Add higher damage scaling on DPs so the following combos do less damage. It will still make sure that other RC combos have higher damage as intended but DP combos won't. 2. Make it so that even if you hit on block with a DP, it will be a Purple RC and not a Red RC. Maybe not possible with how the game's mechanics work now but if possible, it would mean a DP RC has longer meter penalty afterwards. Using RC's actually lowers your meter gain for a few seconds, if you didn't know. 3. Maybe add a new color of RC on blocked attacks, which would have a higher meter penalty and no hit shockwave like Red RC that would both punish DP RC as well as other long pressure strings that utilize RC?
I’d LOVE for Dp Rc to be removed,despite Sin and Bridget being in my characters pool because you should not be safe for being wrong (looking at you too Baiken parry).
Adding damage scaling after RC would help, given how Sol can casually delete >50% health bar with a dp rc is too much of a reward for essentially no risk
Good to see that Leo is on a high tier, I personally started with strive as my first Fighting game and I have about 90 hours and I ended up staying on Leo after playing Anji and Asuka and I love Leo but I still play bad tbh for example I actually still struggle at using my dp during combos but it is good to see that leo is a character that has more potential than the stuff I can get out of him atm.
Maybe there should be a lockout on the time it takes to be able to RC when you land a DP on block or hit, for example you’d still be able to RC it but not instantly and you can only do it after the opponent’s block stun would end so it doesn’t lead to 50/50’s
Hey thanks for the great video, it was super informative! I made sure to like and subscribe after watching because I couldn't find it after it came up after my feed initially. I thought I was subscribed to your channel initially but it turns out I wasn't, so it was a bit tricky to find at first. Keep up the great work!
I personally think the complaint is really not worth worrying about to an extreme degree. Sure, it is really annoying and unfun having all the top tiers using a "get out of jail free into combo/pressure you" card, but I think it's the least annoying thing through this games life span (Compared to the launch HC days at least lol). Personally, I'd prefer to nerf WA or Positive bonus, since either of those would help with the resource issue. I always have thought the hard knockdown on WA wall break is a bit much, considering all it's other benefits as an offensive tool. But also, for me, it's just not that annoying. Strive is such a fast-paced game that I think the resource trading is a cool part of it's identity now.
2:42 this is because last season saw even wider complaint which was largely centered around the non basic characters which didn't have/ need a DP. So what's actually going on here? Is DP as a mechanic the problem or is it a more vocal minority of the player base bitching about a more popular character archetype seeing more use than theirs. Street fighter 4 had a similar complaint with it's shotos where people bitched that there were too many and then sfv happened and even more people bitched that there were hardly any. All I'm seeing here rn is a repeat of that situation. So what's it gonna fucking be? We going back to chaos meta? Or are now deciding that zato gets to be top 1? Do we want grapplers to be actually high tier now? *Which is it gonna be this fucking time!?*
They kind of explain the issue as a whole if you watch the entire video. It's not an issue in a vacuum, it's how these characters specifically interact with the game mechanics that can make DP RC's unfair. This largely has less to do with "X character has a DP that's unfair" and more with "The reward this character gets off of using a defensive tool and then turning it into an offensive and advantageous situation is unfair". This is more of a combination of issues Strive has with it's damage scaling and it's refusal to neuter Positive Bonus' exorbitant benefits. Not to mention that Strive is a lot more stripped back than it's predecessors, so having the option to turn your defensive tool into a safe interaction on block when you have WAY less options to counteract it than before is pretty ridiculous. If they just adjust Positive Bonus and make tweaks to Wild Assault's hard KD on wallbreak, I think DP RC wouldn't be as frustrating.
Readjust Wild Assault and Wall break, DP RC shouldn’t hold the burden because they’re trying to force their way out of pressure. Adjusting gravity is fair to not promote wall breaks. But overall just remove all system mechanic benefits would be the best and most balanced result. DP characters still have the option but return to neutral with no sort of power up. No extra wall break damage, no HKD post WA, and no positive bonus. You also have to consider by readjusting DP RC overdrive PRC might straight up be vaulted lol. Maybe give a super wild assault to give all the benefits at the cost of your entire burst bar lol.
personally I dislike how little something like meaty throw is brought up in this discussion. Everyone talks about DP-RC as if it's an instant free reversal if someone has meter that is near risk-less, and then all we hear about are the safest shit imaginable that beats it like standing on the other side of the screen. There are a lot of ways to hard call out DP-RC and they are always brushed aside. Gio has a super OS off of her safejump that beats almost any aggressive action an enemy can takem including DP RC. You can just grab opponents during a DP after throw invul wears off. You can YRC the hit of the DP, bait it with a back dash, run up DP yourself, use weaker crossups that are less often used in OKI, there is a pretty wide variety of things you can do that will beat it if you know it's coming.
Going for grabs every time when someone has meter and a dp is just not viable. And blocking it is straight up giving them the pressure. Absolute toxic mechanic tbh
@@haggisman0812back dashing during your oki set up just because your opponent has 50 meter sucks, if your opponent successfully conditions you to do that, you’re legitimately in a bad spot. Safe jump OS is awesome! But it literally loses to dp rc. The two best things you can do to deal with dp rc are to back dash or grab. Both of these options low key suck, and being conditioned to go for them instead of doing your normal oki set up sucks.
I def have less of an issue with letting people keep DP>RC than WA HKD ngl like the entire purpose of the wall breaking mechanic in strive seems to be as a way of preventing the feeling of just hopelessness and loss of fun that comes from just being combo'd into oblivion in the corner in xrd and being able to HKD anyone AND gain positive bonus to recoop whatever tension you used kinda just negates the entire purpose of wall breaking in the first place... I would rather just be stuck in the corner honestly.
This is why alot of modern games cost meter or a resource. Being able to steal a turn on the other guys offense is ridiculous. Especially in a game like gear where everyone craps out meter.
As an Anji main DP’s have been a huge problem for his gameplan since day 1. Since the gaps between fujin and his followups are kinda big it makes it hard to ever get pressure going as Anji. God help you if you’re fighting a Leo on hitbox, you just lose. For the rest of the roster I really don’t know how annoying it is to deal with
been away from strive way too long to have any balance takes but i think dp rc being a point of contention is by tons of small changes over the years to RC scaling/meter/positive/etc
I feel like season 3 put strive through another vanilla version. Everything feels different and less balanced. I have no clue why RC scaling was removed when they wanted to reduce damage.
DP RC could use some adjustments. I don't really think it's a problem but you know I'm biased being a ky player. Ky's not good because of it but it does really help. honestly being able to RC on block is wild and that's probably what should be changed because it'd still be a good defensive tool just a lot riskier and more situational but also honestly just like a damage scaling nerf and building them more burst could be enough IDK.
Ways I see to fix dprc without just removing it: Give it back the RC scaling Don’t let it wallstick (can still wallbreak via supers, so costs 100 meter to get positive bonus) Buff characters that are good against DP’s so the meta isn’t as centered around them
What’s funny to me is like most the time when I am considering OKE the first options are always what beats DP. Mind you this is incredibly easy as I play baiken, and I know how to use rope properly. So OKE is pretty fucking easy for me.
I think incremental nerfs are in order. I'd like to see them nerf the damage first, and make it so everyone's doing roughly the same damage off dp rc (ideally almost none). then if it's still an issue try another fix.
Ah this sound was not in my local recording so I missed it. Seems like something happened when I uploaded it. Did what I could to edit it out and it should be fixed soon once UA-cam updates, thanks for the heads up!
As someone who basically stopped playing because I'm not a fan of WA, watching your latest video and hearing that one of the problems now with DPs is WA made my day. Yes it's not the only reason you have listed, but I (metaphorically) pray everyday arcsys decides to go back and remove WA altogether. (although I know the chances of that happening are very, very, very close to zero)
@@combodrop2058 I swear most people just havent played the game in a hot minute and ot shows. But hey at least they played it at some point, I've seen peeps make wild claims about balance without even owning the game
I think it's all about decision making and I made the right decision by picking a character with a DP
I think something else that might contribute to the fact that this mechanic feels a bit more egregious to deal with than usual is actually just strives screen space. In older games the reason all these reversals have incredibly large hitboxes and screen coverage is due to the fact that there were several situations where they could realistically just whiff even on opponents who are decently close to you. In strive everyone’s so close to each other that making a dp whiff on wake-up basically means sacrificing all of your oki on a read that might not happen and then will legitimately can get you killed, especially if the opponent knows you’re attempting to bait it.
I mean most reads carry risk and while screen space has changed. Most hitboxes are still similar so the only real effect would be on jump ins and utilizing dp as an anti air is a core feature
"It cost meter so its fair" gotta be one of my fav quotes lmao
It is tho
I bet you those same people would retract that statement if I showed them Needle YRC.
@@cronoz-sensei4259 Needle YRC isn't even that good. Its a nice option but its in Xrd where everyone has insane options.
Especially in this game where resources are a joke.
@@UncleMerlinain’t no way 😭
Sounds like a feedback loop 🤔 the strike throw characters are stronger which is answered well with DP, which is generally found in... the stronger strike throw characters
In summary, characters without DPs should be cheating more 👍
I think the biggest issue with it is it makes rounds way more one sided, of ky or leo or sol get an early lead, its really hard to fight back because even if I worm out of their offence, you have to completely give up oki in a really telegraphed way or the DP character just ignorantly spends 50 meter to steal a turn again.
adding enough gravity scaling so that if you hit them you can't cross under them for the easy wall break sounds like the play
Interesting point about the strength of DP characters right now being tied to the fact that a lot of the strong offense is strike-throw oriented. I didn't think about that!
The fact that dp on block is safe with meter is just… so stupid imo. To bait dp you HAVE to make them whiff or grab them. If you block their dp you just don’t get a punish and you have to go on the defensive
In terms of reward, dp needs some major increase in initial combo decay (which affects gravity, meter, and burst gain) along with major increases to risc loss so dp rc doesn't do much damage (sorta like red WA combos right now). Sol, KY, and Leo players wouldn't have their h dps nerfed since those aren't actual meterless reversals. Besides getting rid of dp rc on block, you could also hard code meterless reversals to not build any meter when performing them or even reduce tension pulse
These are great points.
DPs being more valuable seems like a general issue when neutral skips are given to every character. For instance, SF6 and GBVR also have top tiers dominated by characters with good reversals.
To put it another way, when every character has access to a neutral skip, characters without meterless reversals suffer.
I don’t think DPs would be an issue if this game wasn’t so one sided and explosive. Especially characters like Sol, and Leo who don’t really have to worry too much about playing defense when they have something extra to help them unlike other characters who rely on resources for their DP. It gives these characters such an advantage when they have suffocating offense and a meterless DP to help them get back in the game more often. In past games it wasn’t as big of a deal because those games have multiple interactions due to the many options you have along with how much health was distributed. In Strive you can die in one to two interactions while also having less options than past games. That’s what makes DPs feel so strong. You want to maintain your offense but you always have to be ready for the reversal in the back of your mind.
The lack depth in term of mechanics in ST compared to Xrd just makes DP's stronger. The game on a base level just makes certain options stronger than they once were. But unlike in games like SF or a tag team game, being able to RC and combo after just exasperates the issue.
I dont think the issue is with dps in general, but WHO they're giving dps to and how effective / punishing to get hit by said characters dps.
Sols dp should not be as good as it is when he has all of the benefits that he has.
The combination of RRC scaling, WA HKD on wallbreak and Fast RC meter refund and regeneration penalty removal all contribute to one hit potentially leading to positive bonus offense and having to guess for your life as a defender. Adding higher scaling to DP and nerfing positive bonus would imo do a lot of good in general.
Hitting positive bonus for everyone when only the DP characters are the offenders sounds awful tbh. Just make it so they can't roman cancel on block
@@Xander240Pro Reminder that no matter if the character has dp or not, positive bonus offense is one of the most degenerate things in the game atm. The game is way better off without positive bonus offense that loops into itself and has at least 4 high low mixups that all lead into super WB/WA WB because positive regenerates your burst.
Pretty sure they removed RRC scaling a while back
Finally a great comment regarding meterless reversals.
I think there is a very safe approach to balancing it out but it’s just don’t remove it from a game like STRIVE. (Remove knockdown from WA or positive bonus post WB, Add more scaling to DPs). I personally think DP RC should remove all wild assault and wallbreak benefits including the break damage.
@@vintajecheese7803Yeah it was changed to be scaled with the idea of FRRC being unscaled and shortly reverted lol.
Personally im okay with having DP RCable on hit. Perhaps lower it's scaling a bit but im okay even without that, when i get hit by dp it feels deserved imo since i left a gap for them to do the input and i didn't bait and punish it. What makes me go insane is DP -> RC on block. It feels like a free get out of jail card which can pretty much be used anytime to get a turn back without ANY risk to it(unless you grab them on wake up which is a really hard read). You pretty much lose your turn on THEIR wake up for winning in neutral and there is 0 things you can do about it. More over than that, just like you said in the video, some characters can do a mixup in this situation or even setup their win condition (bridget WA into yoyo). So you pretty much not only lose your turn but get into an objectively awful situation for successfully knockdowning your opponent unless you do highest commitement stuff to counter it.
Yeah I main Bedman and second Ram, and it almost always seems better to hide behind an error or 5h's disjoint or even fuckin ondo because that way, worst i get is neutral
It's not that the concept of a Dragon Punch in a fighting game is without its natural counters (Especially in an Anime Fighter where safejumps exist) but rather it's one of the few fighting games where having your DP blocked doesn't result in immediate traditional punishment (Saving RC as a get-out-of-jail free card on top of actually turning someone else's oki into your turn)
You rock for making this video, I’ve felt this way for years.
I really like DP-RC in that it allows the defensive player to spend meter for an attempt at getting out of jail. I don't like all the benefits it gives, and WA giving HKD on wallbreak tipped that balance into an unreasonably disproportionate risk-reward situation. I can have the world for 50 bar if I guess right in a gap, probably not what we want.
I think though, that this is much more an issue with the current gameflow and dramatic snowballiness of the game rather than with DP RC. Not only are DP characters the only ones who can reverse the snowball this hard, but they also tend to be the characters who can run away with their own snowball the most dramatically. It could definitely get a nerf and it would probably be for the best, but I don't think the overarching issue would be remedied.
Strive players also seem to want to run brain-off offense, which is lame. Strong defensive options, especially those that hard punish formulaic pressure, are sick.
DPs should NEVER be cancelable on block in literally any fighter. The point of a dp is to get people the hell off of you not to get out of every situation where you are being out footsied or you are super desperate to force a 50 50. If they get nerfed i will not feel bad for any characters effected by this change.
They nerfed backwards moving specials so i think nerfing DPs is a great idea.
Personally, i always dislike it when defensive options allow you to fully reverse a situation, instead of returning to neutral or at most gaining some advantage. It feels like you are allowed to win after making bad decisions.
Wouldn’t you be rewarded though for not spending your resources on offense earlier so you can use it later when you need to turn the tides? Also to get the meter in the first place you had to have been making good decisions earlier right?
@@CodeTetsu It's not that you shouldn't have metered defensive options. I like it when your reward for saving meter is getting a chance for turning the tides, not doing a full 180.
Also, you can gain plenty meter from getting hit, wich i think is fine, cause snowballing also sucks, but you do gain meter for making bad decisions.
"They hate us cuz they ain't us" -Sol Badguy
They definitely tried to get ahead of this when designing Strive by making DP's throwable, but with how scary throws are to do in this game it's tough to feel good about taking that risk a lot of the time.
Separately, re: 'chars don't feel built/balanced around having the option', I definitely don't disagree, but thinking about it I'd almost say that's because it's supposed to be the opposite in this game. Like, it feels like the other chars are (in theory) supposed to be built around lacking that option, thinking about characters like Nago, Ram, Milia, where you can point to things they have that's good enough to justify them not having that option as well. Something about defining these things from the positive or negative perspective (those who have it vs. those who don't), if that makes sense. (not that I'm sayin the execution on this is perfect of course, just like a different framework to think from).
Man I remember when I was learning Strive I was getting blown up repeatedly trying to time "throw oki" like it's Fantasy Strike or something, only to find that 1. Throw Ranges are absolutely tiny in this game and 2. You have quite a few "throw invulnerable" frames on wakeup in addition to your normal invulnerable frames.
If the risk reward balance on that shit is off, just make it so whiffing a DP causes a vulnerable state where you take more damage for a bit.
Also nerf wild assault.
I'd make any one of these changes to make DP RC at least a little bit more fair:
1. Add higher damage scaling on DPs so the following combos do less damage. It will still make sure that other RC combos have higher damage as intended but DP combos won't.
2. Make it so that even if you hit on block with a DP, it will be a Purple RC and not a Red RC. Maybe not possible with how the game's mechanics work now but if possible, it would mean a DP RC has longer meter penalty afterwards. Using RC's actually lowers your meter gain for a few seconds, if you didn't know.
3. Maybe add a new color of RC on blocked attacks, which would have a higher meter penalty and no hit shockwave like Red RC that would both punish DP RC as well as other long pressure strings that utilize RC?
I’d LOVE for Dp Rc to be removed,despite Sin and Bridget being in my characters pool because you should not be safe for being wrong (looking at you too Baiken parry).
I think arcsys should give ram a dp…
Dauro is already a 623p it would only make sense.
Adding damage scaling after RC would help, given how Sol can casually delete >50% health bar with a dp rc is too much of a reward for essentially no risk
Good to see that Leo is on a high tier, I personally started with strive as my first Fighting game and I have about 90 hours and I ended up staying on Leo after playing Anji and Asuka and I love Leo but I still play bad tbh for example I actually still struggle at using my dp during combos but it is good to see that leo is a character that has more potential than the stuff I can get out of him atm.
Maybe there should be a lockout on the time it takes to be able to RC when you land a DP on block or hit, for example you’d still be able to RC it but not instantly and you can only do it after the opponent’s block stun would end so it doesn’t lead to 50/50’s
This is very well explained! Arc Sys should do something about this.
Hey thanks for the great video, it was super informative! I made sure to like and subscribe after watching because I couldn't find it after it came up after my feed initially. I thought I was subscribed to your channel initially but it turns out I wasn't, so it was a bit tricky to find at first. Keep up the great work!
I personally think the complaint is really not worth worrying about to an extreme degree. Sure, it is really annoying and unfun having all the top tiers using a "get out of jail free into combo/pressure you" card, but I think it's the least annoying thing through this games life span (Compared to the launch HC days at least lol). Personally, I'd prefer to nerf WA or Positive bonus, since either of those would help with the resource issue. I always have thought the hard knockdown on WA wall break is a bit much, considering all it's other benefits as an offensive tool.
But also, for me, it's just not that annoying. Strive is such a fast-paced game that I think the resource trading is a cool part of it's identity now.
Yessir another video from the amazing SQ, SQuad up!
Thanks for always keeping up with great topics! Always appreciate the vids
I don't think any character with a dp rc should have a giant reversal super, ngl
Exactly! Because it means if you try to counter dp rc with grab, you’re at risk of being blown up by a super.
@@griffendesai2039 Or even the super just catches the backdash
2:42 this is because last season saw even wider complaint which was largely centered around the non basic characters which didn't have/ need a DP.
So what's actually going on here? Is DP as a mechanic the problem or is it a more vocal minority of the player base bitching about a more popular character archetype seeing more use than theirs.
Street fighter 4 had a similar complaint with it's shotos where people bitched that there were too many and then sfv happened and even more people bitched that there were hardly any.
All I'm seeing here rn is a repeat of that situation.
So what's it gonna fucking be? We going back to chaos meta? Or are now deciding that zato gets to be top 1? Do we want grapplers to be actually high tier now?
*Which is it gonna be this fucking time!?*
They kind of explain the issue as a whole if you watch the entire video. It's not an issue in a vacuum, it's how these characters specifically interact with the game mechanics that can make DP RC's unfair. This largely has less to do with "X character has a DP that's unfair" and more with "The reward this character gets off of using a defensive tool and then turning it into an offensive and advantageous situation is unfair".
This is more of a combination of issues Strive has with it's damage scaling and it's refusal to neuter Positive Bonus' exorbitant benefits. Not to mention that Strive is a lot more stripped back than it's predecessors, so having the option to turn your defensive tool into a safe interaction on block when you have WAY less options to counteract it than before is pretty ridiculous. If they just adjust Positive Bonus and make tweaks to Wild Assault's hard KD on wallbreak, I think DP RC wouldn't be as frustrating.
Readjust Wild Assault and Wall break, DP RC shouldn’t hold the burden because they’re trying to force their way out of pressure. Adjusting gravity is fair to not promote wall breaks.
But overall just remove all system mechanic benefits would be the best and most balanced result. DP characters still have the option but return to neutral with no sort of power up. No extra wall break damage, no HKD post WA, and no positive bonus. You also have to consider by readjusting DP RC overdrive PRC might straight up be vaulted lol.
Maybe give a super wild assault to give all the benefits at the cost of your entire burst bar lol.
personally I dislike how little something like meaty throw is brought up in this discussion. Everyone talks about DP-RC as if it's an instant free reversal if someone has meter that is near risk-less, and then all we hear about are the safest shit imaginable that beats it like standing on the other side of the screen. There are a lot of ways to hard call out DP-RC and they are always brushed aside. Gio has a super OS off of her safejump that beats almost any aggressive action an enemy can takem including DP RC. You can just grab opponents during a DP after throw invul wears off. You can YRC the hit of the DP, bait it with a back dash, run up DP yourself, use weaker crossups that are less often used in OKI, there is a pretty wide variety of things you can do that will beat it if you know it's coming.
You make tons more sense than a lot of other GG players.
The only DP I have a problem with is Sol his risk reward is so one sided. He needs a dmg nerf
Going for grabs every time when someone has meter and a dp is just not viable. And blocking it is straight up giving them the pressure. Absolute toxic mechanic tbh
There's other stuff you can do, backdash to make it whiff so they can't rc, or if you get a knockdown that let's you safejump, safejump > dp/super os
This is the guilty gear strive hot take that I’ve been afraid to say for yearsssssss
@@haggisman0812back dashing during your oki set up just because your opponent has 50 meter sucks, if your opponent successfully conditions you to do that, you’re legitimately in a bad spot.
Safe jump OS is awesome! But it literally loses to dp rc. The two best things you can do to deal with dp rc are to back dash or grab. Both of these options low key suck, and being conditioned to go for them instead of doing your normal oki set up sucks.
@@griffendesai2039safejump os does not lose, the attackers invul lasts longer since they're go 2nd and punish the dp
@@griffendesai2039 it's like getting mixed... On your own offense🥲
I def have less of an issue with letting people keep DP>RC than WA HKD ngl
like the entire purpose of the wall breaking mechanic in strive seems to be as a way of preventing the feeling of just hopelessness and loss of fun that comes from just being combo'd into oblivion in the corner in xrd and being able to HKD anyone AND gain positive bonus to recoop whatever tension you used kinda just negates the entire purpose of wall breaking in the first place... I would rather just be stuck in the corner honestly.
This is why alot of modern games cost meter or a resource. Being able to steal a turn on the other guys offense is ridiculous.
Especially in a game like gear where everyone craps out meter.
I remember LK saying he quit playing MvCI because of DP tag
As an Anji main DP’s have been a huge problem for his gameplan since day 1. Since the gaps between fujin and his followups are kinda big it makes it hard to ever get pressure going as Anji. God help you if you’re fighting a Leo on hitbox, you just lose. For the rest of the roster I really don’t know how annoying it is to deal with
been away from strive way too long to have any balance takes but i think dp rc being a point of contention is by tons of small changes over the years to RC scaling/meter/positive/etc
I feel like season 3 put strive through another vanilla version. Everything feels different and less balanced. I have no clue why RC scaling was removed when they wanted to reduce damage.
Surprised they didn’t nerf the damage scaling and proration off of DP RC. They haven’t even touched Super RC damage scaling
DP RC could use some adjustments. I don't really think it's a problem but you know I'm biased being a ky player. Ky's not good because of it but it does really help. honestly being able to RC on block is wild and that's probably what should be changed because it'd still be a good defensive tool just a lot riskier and more situational but also honestly just like a damage scaling nerf and building them more burst could be enough IDK.
Ky not being good because of DP RC is part of the problem, it's like it's not a part of his power budget
Ways I see to fix dprc without just removing it:
Give it back the RC scaling
Don’t let it wallstick (can still wallbreak via supers, so costs 100 meter to get positive bonus)
Buff characters that are good against DP’s so the meta isn’t as centered around them
What’s funny to me is like most the time when I am considering OKE the first options are always what beats DP. Mind you this is incredibly easy as I play baiken, and I know how to use rope properly. So OKE is pretty fucking easy for me.
Oki not OKE
Hush you.
every fucking character i actually enjoy doesnt have meterless dp. my main baiken is the closest with parry, but johnny and elphelt? nope.
I think incremental nerfs are in order. I'd like to see them nerf the damage first, and make it so everyone's doing roughly the same damage off dp rc (ideally almost none). then if it's still an issue try another fix.
Bruh, I love DP RC. It literally make the game much much more fun. I do believe more characters should get dps instead. eg Anji
dp rc is now gone lol
Honestly, I find DP RC to be less annoying in this game relative to say, BBCF because safejumps are better and DPs are throwable.
Imagine showing this video to yourself 7 years ago.😳
I play Leo but I can’t dp on wake-up anyways so do whatever lmao
It’s fair it cost meter (I haven’t played this game In 8 months)
OMG SQ HYPE
People just dont wanna build OSs to DP RC
With how shit defense is already in this game having to play it without DP RC would make me wanna blow my brains out so nah.
🥰
#makeGio623SaDP2024
all i got from this video is "nerf millia"
please fix the ear piercing sound at 6:40 in the video
Ah this sound was not in my local recording so I missed it. Seems like something happened when I uploaded it. Did what I could to edit it out and it should be fixed soon once UA-cam updates, thanks for the heads up!
game would be better off with no dps
W
As someone who basically stopped playing because I'm not a fan of WA, watching your latest video and hearing that one of the problems now with DPs is WA made my day.
Yes it's not the only reason you have listed, but I (metaphorically) pray everyday arcsys decides to go back and remove WA altogether.
(although I know the chances of that happening are very, very, very close to zero)
Nago and HC not top tier? Ram? What?
Doing
we need to nerf those
gone
DP chacs have much less utility. And what this sentiment that dp chacs are top tire. HC, Ram for example. Chipp, ky, sin are irrelevant.
If you still think ky, sin and especially chipp are irrelevant you are a season behind.
lol?
@@combodrop2058 I swear most people just havent played the game in a hot minute and ot shows.
But hey at least they played it at some point, I've seen peeps make wild claims about balance without even owning the game
This video is crazy.
i hate DP RC day 1
Skill Issues honestly
People are complaining about DPs??
I hope they remove it from the game , parry PRC can stay :)
Who the fuck is still complaining about DPs in current age
Im sayin. Learning to play around a DP is like level 1 fightong game knowledge
There's a thing called defense for a reason. If you keep getting DP'd it's really a skill issue. Time to hit the lab 😂
People complain about everything in this fuck ass game just admit its not good