Yeah neutral is much harder to pinpint compared to things like Oki because the sheer amount of variables can be crazy. Often times you can make a decision in neutral, that leads to stalemate in terms of that singular interactin, but then immeditaely leads to another neutral decision point. For example, if Millia is representing multiple approach options with dash up 2K and her myriad air options, Baiken can in turn try and respond more with jump back j.S to specifically counter the air options for larger reward. But in the case against dash 2K (or other fast button), you now end up in a situation where Baiken is in the air around 1-2 char distances away, where she will have air options to utilize like land and block, air back dash tatami/j.S, double jump 7/8/9 etc and millia has options to try and capitialize baiken recovering in the air (but cant necessarily punish) by taking more space towards the corner, dashing up 6P to counter aerial attempts, take to the air again to "go over" options baiken has in this situatin and force her to block or even punish. Or millia can respond in the next interaction by hard calling out the j.S and running much further into the opponent than she otherwise would. There is so much nuance to neutral interactions, and so many character matchups that many times you won't even realise the best options available to you for a specific situation you are in. And that is what separates the good from the great.
thanks for the video on such a ethereal topic. Love to see a match breakdown & breakdown whats happening in terms of neutral & labeling what 'phase' or 'state' each character is in after a notable interaction & common neutral habits/noticing habits like after a big damaging combo & even advantage, that many players will wakeup DP/Super. Been gathering notes for a year or two and plan to make a video myself but still gathering. Thanks SQ edit: also I noticed characters tend towards 1 point of the neutral triangle in terms of playstyle and it can really help to attune to characters who bring out your favorite side. Usually characters split between 2 & every now & then you have some good for all 3. Would be so sick having a neutral triangle tier chart or something pointing out what characters do best & certain moves good for all 3 situations if possible. Just some thoughts.
Love this video! I know it's a generic topic but I'd love a video on improving defense. I think I can hang in neutral with a lot of the better players I play against but it seems like if I am ever stuck blocking without yrc or burst, I'm likely to get hit eventually trying to get back to neutral, while I don't have the same success rate while trying to open up the other person. I would imagine a lot of this is matchup knowledge and knowing when you can challenge in their strings, but curious if you have any general tips.
Defense is something I would love to cover but I'll have to figure out a good way to go about it since it's such a large topic. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@SQuirrel147 Understandable! It feels like there are way too many factors as to what constitutes as 'good defense' so I can see it being tough for a video. Appreciate all the videos recently though! Goated content
good video! gotta say with approaching, it's tempting as Gio to spam dash way too much, which I did and suffered the consequences for lol. when i became more patient and have dash under control, I started to whiff punish better and be more threatening
This is a great concept to teach since it can be kinda nebulous. I really like that you also give examples on how to identify an issue and resolve it. For me personally, when I try to learn a new concept and fail it can be hard to ask myself the right question.
I try to teach people the ways to get their own answers instead of just give them the answer. Especially since many things in fighting games do not have defined answers like that. Teach a man to fish etc
Very thought provoking video. It made me realize just how awful Baiken is as a character due to the fact she can't incorporate any of these ideas. I'm glad everyone else will be able to use this knowledge for their betterment though!
I don't know who needs to hear this, but something I wish I saw others say more often regarding RPS and FG theory in general, is that you don't ACTUALLY know what will happen. No matter how many times they represent an option, play a certain way, or whatever metric you're using to decide YOUR next option, at the end of the day it's called a READ, an EDUCATED GUESS. Sometimes every sign will point to a specific option, and you will still be WRONG. This is obvious, but for people like myself who really try to get into the nitty gritty of risk reward and finding every solution, it's easy to tunnel vision on videos like this and in game, and forget this isn't a TEST (unless you're getting knowledge checked) where there's always this "correct" answer looming over you in every interaction. Sometimes you just gotta do what you THINK is correct, and if you THOUGHT about it, then that's what matters because you can improve on that thought process. This sounds like I'm simplifying fighting games into "its just a guess lmao", but for some people it's hard to detach yourself from the decisions you make. I need to remind myself constantly that there wasn't a 100% chance of my decision working, and no amount of context or prior information would make it 100%.
This is true. Videos like this are to help people identify the types of "guesses" they are making. They are ultimately guesses but understanding what you are working with will help you guess more accurately by identifying key moments and common habits from the opponent
Thanks for these videos ~ I'm trying to get better at mixing up my neutral with Ram, instead of overly relying on f.S. This is a super handy mindset for figuring out which of her tools are best for approach/poke/punish... though learning how to switch between them fluidly instead of leaning into one seems like the hard part ;_;
Knowing and doing is very much different in this regard yeah. But knowing is how you start the process of improving at actually using the knowledge! Just keep at it and you will get there 🥰
Great video, and I think I'm understanding a little more. As a zoner, am I limited to just the 2 options (Space control and Whiff punishing)? Approach seems terrifying, yet I see very good Axl players getting in somehow. Is this just as a result of whiff punishing and taking my turn?
Your archetype will never limit you from taking advantage of all 3 in neutral. The best example I can think of for this with Axl is the mindgame around 2HS. 2HS is a really strong way to stop people from approaching (space control). As a result, the opponent will start trying to whiff punish 2HS (usually by airdashing over it). So if you know the opponent is respecting 2HS (which you should assume if you tag them with it once or twice) then you can start just dashing in to take space and the opponent is effectively paralyzed cuz they're not trying to press a button until they see 2HS. Sure, you can't run all the way up to them from max 2HS range without getting poked out, but you just running forward and then hitting another 2HS or 2LP or just taking space and blocking is very annoying since they've just given you more space to zone with.
Think of it this way. Approaching is not just for the purpose of literally getting in on the opponent right? It can be for the purpose of taking space back too. If you are a zoner you often can end up backing yourself up too much and get cornered easily. Even with that said, even a zoner like Axl can benefit from approaching for offense. Swinging preemptively into Axl is scary because of his space control so he can get away with approaching. Some characters are amazing at approaching but don't benefit as much and others are less good at approaching but benefit more.
Recently watched Lord Knight's video about neutral and it was good but it was kind of hard to remember the Japanese terms of the triangle. Thank you for saying the english terms and explaining them further, it simplified it for me. Also, is anti airing consider as space control? or whip punishing?
Anti airing is kind of a mini game on top of the 3 triangles but it is most aligned with space control I would say. It depends on the intent behind the jump really. Glad you liked the video!
Her neutral is quite strong actually! You just need to really understand the opponents options and how the things I talk about in this video apply to her. She is quite good at whiff punishing and approaching
@@bluehoudini30 Why is whiff punishing not a strong plan? It's ideally the best gameplan because it's the lowest risk on your end. if someone is not whiffing normals it means the space in front of them is not being protected so you can approach on the ground with run up 2K, run up f.S, stuff like that. Millia is fast so she can take advantage of that well and the opponent can't react in time either so they are forced to guess. They are especially reluctant to swing bigger buttons because her air approach is so fast.
Nice tips, but i think i'm gonna stick with my gun to skip neutral
Good idea I can't lie
A fellow drama connoisseur
Neutral for me in strive is to run up dp once in a while and keep doing it until other person blocks it
Yeah neutral is much harder to pinpint compared to things like Oki because the sheer amount of variables can be crazy. Often times you can make a decision in neutral, that leads to stalemate in terms of that singular interactin, but then immeditaely leads to another neutral decision point.
For example, if Millia is representing multiple approach options with dash up 2K and her myriad air options, Baiken can in turn try and respond more with jump back j.S to specifically counter the air options for larger reward. But in the case against dash 2K (or other fast button), you now end up in a situation where Baiken is in the air around 1-2 char distances away, where she will have air options to utilize like land and block, air back dash tatami/j.S, double jump 7/8/9 etc and millia has options to try and capitialize baiken recovering in the air (but cant necessarily punish) by taking more space towards the corner, dashing up 6P to counter aerial attempts, take to the air again to "go over" options baiken has in this situatin and force her to block or even punish.
Or millia can respond in the next interaction by hard calling out the j.S and running much further into the opponent than she otherwise would.
There is so much nuance to neutral interactions, and so many character matchups that many times you won't even realise the best options available to you for a specific situation you are in. And that is what separates the good from the great.
Thank you so much for this! Definitely something I'll be looking at more when I review my match footage.
Love the channel and improvement based content :D
Thanks! Glad you like it!
🗣️🗣️🗣️ WE'RE GETTING OUT OF FLOOR 10 WITH THIS 🔥🔥🔥
Joking aside it's a very nice guide thanks 👍
Great video as always, SQ!
thanks for the video on such a ethereal topic. Love to see a match breakdown & breakdown whats happening in terms of neutral & labeling what 'phase' or 'state' each character is in after a notable interaction & common neutral habits/noticing habits like after a big damaging combo & even advantage, that many players will wakeup DP/Super. Been gathering notes for a year or two and plan to make a video myself but still gathering. Thanks SQ
edit: also I noticed characters tend towards 1 point of the neutral triangle in terms of playstyle and it can really help to attune to characters who bring out your favorite side. Usually characters split between 2 & every now & then you have some good for all 3. Would be so sick having a neutral triangle tier chart or something pointing out what characters do best & certain moves good for all 3 situations if possible. Just some thoughts.
Love this video! I know it's a generic topic but I'd love a video on improving defense. I think I can hang in neutral with a lot of the better players I play against but it seems like if I am ever stuck blocking without yrc or burst, I'm likely to get hit eventually trying to get back to neutral, while I don't have the same success rate while trying to open up the other person. I would imagine a lot of this is matchup knowledge and knowing when you can challenge in their strings, but curious if you have any general tips.
Defense is something I would love to cover but I'll have to figure out a good way to go about it since it's such a large topic. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@SQuirrel147 Understandable! It feels like there are way too many factors as to what constitutes as 'good defense' so I can see it being tough for a video. Appreciate all the videos recently though! Goated content
good video! gotta say with approaching, it's tempting as Gio to spam dash way too much, which I did and suffered the consequences for lol. when i became more patient and have dash under control, I started to whiff punish better and be more threatening
Loving the educational content sq147Gaming
I really appreciate this.
This is a great concept to teach since it can be kinda nebulous. I really like that you also give examples on how to identify an issue and resolve it. For me personally, when I try to learn a new concept and fail it can be hard to ask myself the right question.
I try to teach people the ways to get their own answers instead of just give them the answer. Especially since many things in fighting games do not have defined answers like that. Teach a man to fish etc
I’m loving the youtube grind arc
Very thought provoking video.
It made me realize just how awful Baiken is as a character due to the fact she can't incorporate any of these ideas.
I'm glad everyone else will be able to use this knowledge for their betterment though!
Baiken sucks
So true, Baiken has to work so hard to overcome these serious flaws.
Thats why i say baiken is low tier everyday
I don't know who needs to hear this, but something I wish I saw others say more often regarding RPS and FG theory in general, is that you don't ACTUALLY know what will happen. No matter how many times they represent an option, play a certain way, or whatever metric you're using to decide YOUR next option, at the end of the day it's called a READ, an EDUCATED GUESS. Sometimes every sign will point to a specific option, and you will still be WRONG.
This is obvious, but for people like myself who really try to get into the nitty gritty of risk reward and finding every solution, it's easy to tunnel vision on videos like this and in game, and forget this isn't a TEST (unless you're getting knowledge checked) where there's always this "correct" answer looming over you in every interaction. Sometimes you just gotta do what you THINK is correct, and if you THOUGHT about it, then that's what matters because you can improve on that thought process.
This sounds like I'm simplifying fighting games into "its just a guess lmao", but for some people it's hard to detach yourself from the decisions you make. I need to remind myself constantly that there wasn't a 100% chance of my decision working, and no amount of context or prior information would make it 100%.
This is true. Videos like this are to help people identify the types of "guesses" they are making. They are ultimately guesses but understanding what you are working with will help you guess more accurately by identifying key moments and common habits from the opponent
@@SQuirrel147 Yes, I wasn't trying to detract from the topic of your video, which is super helpful. It was just more of an afterthought on my part.
Thanks for these videos ~ I'm trying to get better at mixing up my neutral with Ram, instead of overly relying on f.S. This is a super handy mindset for figuring out which of her tools are best for approach/poke/punish... though learning how to switch between them fluidly instead of leaning into one seems like the hard part ;_;
Knowing and doing is very much different in this regard yeah. But knowing is how you start the process of improving at actually using the knowledge! Just keep at it and you will get there 🥰
4th tip: spin at them, nothing can ever go wrong.
The Anji way
nice video... good explanations
Great video, and I think I'm understanding a little more. As a zoner, am I limited to just the 2 options (Space control and Whiff punishing)? Approach seems terrifying, yet I see very good Axl players getting in somehow. Is this just as a result of whiff punishing and taking my turn?
Your archetype will never limit you from taking advantage of all 3 in neutral. The best example I can think of for this with Axl is the mindgame around 2HS. 2HS is a really strong way to stop people from approaching (space control). As a result, the opponent will start trying to whiff punish 2HS (usually by airdashing over it). So if you know the opponent is respecting 2HS (which you should assume if you tag them with it once or twice) then you can start just dashing in to take space and the opponent is effectively paralyzed cuz they're not trying to press a button until they see 2HS. Sure, you can't run all the way up to them from max 2HS range without getting poked out, but you just running forward and then hitting another 2HS or 2LP or just taking space and blocking is very annoying since they've just given you more space to zone with.
Think of it this way. Approaching is not just for the purpose of literally getting in on the opponent right? It can be for the purpose of taking space back too. If you are a zoner you often can end up backing yourself up too much and get cornered easily. Even with that said, even a zoner like Axl can benefit from approaching for offense. Swinging preemptively into Axl is scary because of his space control so he can get away with approaching. Some characters are amazing at approaching but don't benefit as much and others are less good at approaching but benefit more.
This video helped me win Evo
BROOOO 😱😱😱😱
No wayyy
You won Evo before me and I made the video that's crazy 😭
Recently watched Lord Knight's video about neutral and it was good but it was kind of hard to remember the Japanese terms of the triangle. Thank you for saying the english terms and explaining them further, it simplified it for me.
Also, is anti airing consider as space control? or whip punishing?
Anti airing is kind of a mini game on top of the 3 triangles but it is most aligned with space control I would say. It depends on the intent behind the jump really. Glad you liked the video!
It’s a shame ram can’t use her lights (5k, 2k) to whiff punish because her 2d never reaches….
Fix my character daisuke.
no that can stay broken
Nice video although kinda useless considering I have Elk Hunt. 😎
Give Ram, chipps rekka and 2D
I'M SAYING
I play Millia and her neutral sucks 🤣 it's like no matter what everyone else attacks have more priority.
Her neutral is quite strong actually! You just need to really understand the opponents options and how the things I talk about in this video apply to her. She is quite good at whiff punishing and approaching
@@SQuirrel147 if you have to count on whiffs, that's not a strong neutral. I'm trying to rely on capel so much, any tips?
@@bluehoudini30 Why is whiff punishing not a strong plan? It's ideally the best gameplan because it's the lowest risk on your end. if someone is not whiffing normals it means the space in front of them is not being protected so you can approach on the ground with run up 2K, run up f.S, stuff like that. Millia is fast so she can take advantage of that well and the opponent can't react in time either so they are forced to guess. They are especially reluctant to swing bigger buttons because her air approach is so fast.
Lmao ram player giving advice on how to play neutral
lmao xD wow epic gottem
Did you watch the video
@@tdwl2802 no. I did not
You guys are playing netrual???
No but we like to think we are!
@@SQuirrel147 so true bestie