Removing table saw rust SAFELY and QUICKLY
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2022
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Since SC Johnson discontinued their Paste Wax what are you going to use in the future?
@@dremwolf5419 Any other brand.
I only have a random orbit sander. Is that ok to use as well?
Quickly becoming my favorite channel on UA-cam.
'Or like blood stains from the guy who put a drink cup down on the saw and was never heard from again'. Priceless, James!
Take a look at Carbon Method to protect cast iron. No, I am not a paid sponsor. I applied it about a month ago, too soon to do a real test, but so far it is working very well. I think it could very well be a game changer.
Timely advice Stumpy. Summer is over here in Ontario Canada and I'm looking forward to a winter in the shop. A little tool maintenance is first on the agenda.
Thank you!
Last summer, I drove 6 hours to South Florida to buy an old Delta Cabinet Saw from a woodworker that had retired about a decade ago. That saw top was pretty rough. I mean, there wasn't a single Millimeter that wasn't covered with rust.
Some WD 40 helped. PB Blaster worked better. And about 30 minutes with my Random Orbital Sander and some 400 grit sandpaper made it look and feel new again.
I use Minwax Finishing Wax on it to maintain the top now. On a woodshed without any Climate Control, and in Southeast Alabama, its working well.
Good tips, as usual!
James, I am once again appreciative of your sound advice. Thank you!
This is exactly what ive been planning on doing this weekend and this video came just in time!!
Good info, clearly and concisely presented, as always. Thank you and keep 'em coming.
I have a harbor freight table saw that I use in my shop. I'm a hobbyist, and I don't make any money off my work so I'm okay with the lower end stuff. I don't have any problem with rest right now, but this video is damn near perfectly timed for me as I was just planning on pulling it out and cleaning it.
Excellent work as always, I look forward to seeing more from this channel.
You can always count on Stumpy Nubs to deliver a short, concise and effective tip to everyday woodworking.
Even tossed in some myth busting to boot!
Excellent video as always Stumpy Nubs, giving the "of course" feeling in many viewers!
I wonder if that waxing tip would work on a coated tool top?
Would it be beneficial to the tool and it's use?
I'm assuming the tips here could be transferred to most gliding surface tool also?
That's how thought provoking a Stumpy Nubs video is!
Gets your creative juices flowing!
Keep being awesome Stumpy Nubs, take care and stay safe!
That does work and we appreciate your reminding us James. Keep up the good videos and stay safe. Fred.
Great video as always 👌🏼 You sir are always the first (and often only) reference I go to for great tips and advice. Thank you again🫡
Lots of good suggestions here...and a preventative measure I use is to run a dehumidifier in my shop from early spring until late fall. This has really been helpful as my shop is in my basement when it is quite humid. Before I did this I did have a lot of rusting issues. Thanks, James, for another great instructional video that makes a difference.
Great tips, James. Most of my Shopsmith tools have aluminum tables, which can oxidize, so my approach to them is slightly different, but my cast iron tools have all been through the WD-40 Scotch-Brite then paste wax treatment and it works great. As for damage done by visitors to my shop, I once had a guy set a Styrofoam cup of hot coffee down on my planer bed, and within two minutes it took us to realize that he had left it there, it had already generated deep rust ring. The stain from that ring remains today, but no one has seen the visitor in years. Scott
Really fantastic tips, James! Thanks! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I have been doing this exact same procedure on all of my cast iron tops on my machines for over 25 years. It has worked great keeping rust at bay.
I had clean up an old delta unisaw for my boss that had been sitting in a garage for a year and a half, almost the same solution but i glued scotch brite
to a sanding disc for a random orbit sander, worked great, looked like new after an hour of scraping and wd40 and the pad.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge James. A great video! 👍
I use Johnsons paste wax on all my metal tops, aluminum too, I put it on every month in the summer and twice over the winter because I heat my shop all winter and it doesn't seem to need it as often. Thanks for all the great videos.
You really are the king 👑 Stumpy Nubs. Thank you
Thanks Stump. I’m heading to the shop now for a little session with my t.s.
Once again, great advice. I've been doing this procedure for years ....on my aluminum top job site saws. Aluminum oxidizes and gets "draggy" as fast as iron, you just don't see it. I use a very fine sandpaper, i000 grit or 0000 steel wool as the aluminum is softer than iron. If done on a nice hot summer day in the sun, I'll apply the wax while the surface is very hot, it seems to get into the micro pores/grooves better and lasts longer. I do the same thing on my second hand Rockwell table saw in the shop. That saw had some serious rust in a couple of places when I got it. I've even used car wax on occasion to see if it lasted longer, nope, about the same.
Always good, useful, and simple recommendations that every shop can use James. I agree with most of the cleaning methods except using commercial denatured alcohol on clean ferrous surfaces. All commercial alcohol sold is at best 90-95% and contains up to 10 or more % water by the very nature of alcohol being very hygroscopic (water-loving). Cleaning with alcohol for small parts may be ok as the surface area is small and the residence time is short which is not always the case on large tool surfaces. So best are hydrocarbon solvents that you mentioned for both degreasing and keeping then from flash rust
I loaned my Dewalt job saw to a friend who had it on his deck overlooking Copano Bay . The table had issues when he took it but when I got it home a large amount of the magnesium ( I guess ) coating was gone so after asking everyone in Rockport Tx. I thought would care about my issue I finally grabbed two cans of appliance epoxy paint. Sanded it down with 220 on my favorite 5" orbital blue taped where I didn't want it 30 minutes later nice saw table top. Let cure for a week +/- tough as nails except for the running belt sander. Great video I'm going to watch another
Thanks for your videos, great advice. I do this for my table saw however a synthetic inhibitor like Inox MX3 (no I have no commercial interest) will do a much better job at preventing rust than paste wax for much longer. I find paste wax needs to be re-applied after a week or so whereas I have gone a month between applications with an inhibitor.
I live within spitting distance of Lake Ontario. My workshop is in my basement and in the summer time we get such high humidity that I just don't do any woodworking. If I do, the sweat pouring off my brow seems to instantly rust my table saw, with or without a coat of wax. I have found that automotive rubbing compound applied by hand then followed with a coat of paste wax really helps to keep the rust at bay.
Nice work & great advice. Thank you
I just cleaned and waxed my saw top. I actually just purchased some of turtle wax’s new graphene type wax. Boy did it make the saw top slick. Used a gray scrub pad on my sander. Wiped it really clean. Used a little alcohol to get rid of residue. Then I proceeded to apply 3 coats of wax over the weekend. The top has never felt better. They didn’t have any in paste form, so I tried it. Worked like charm! Great info, as usual stumpy!
Great video. Been here a lot. Living in North Florida and doing woodwork means moisture issues. In the summer, drying a board is tough, if I get down to 17% moisture I am thrilled.
I have found two products that keep my saw tops from rusting. StrikeHold does a good job as a preventative and so does BoeSheild T-9. Neither are real cheap, but both are effective. I use more StrikeHold because it frees rousted bolts and nuts so well. So it is always on hand, it is my first choice. I use Boeshield on my boat motors and rigging to seal out saltwater. And prevent corrosion. Boeing Airlines makes Boeshield, its what they coat their airplanes with to stop rusting and other corrosion. Both create moisture barriers, blocks salt, corrosion and most chemicals. They maybe over kill for those of you living in dryer climates, but in humid area… saves me a lot of cleaning. Image it will extend my cast Iron table tops by decades.
An old timer that I worked with back in the "80s used the ball end of a 32oz Ball peen hammer to burnish the table. He held it with one palm on the flat face and his other hand on the handle, using long strokes parallel to the blade he would get the surface to shine. plus the tiny slight concave lines helped break the surface friction. plus no clean up.
Never heard anything like this. Sounds fascinating.
Thanks so much for these excellent tips!
I once left some freshly cut, not perfectly dried wood on my saw and came back two days later with heavy rust. I used the WD-40 with 400 grit sandpaper trick and it came up really nice. There was a bit of shading that I couldn't get rid of but hey, I don't expect it to look perfect for the rest of its life.
The saw was about 5 or 6 years old at the time and when I had first purchased it I cleaned the top, brushed on water based polyurethane then wiped off the excess with a rag and let it cure. That seemed to have lasted for almost 5 years. I now never leave wood on my saw and re-finish it every few years and it's still looking great, except that spot where I left the wood for a couple days.
One of your best videos to date
Great tips and tricks thanks
Exactly! I scrub with a Scotchbrite if things get rusty, but keeping them waxed (I love Johnson Wax, still have the can I bought forty years ago... Doesn't take much!). Yeah, keeping the cast iron waxed is key. Table Saw, Band Saw, Drill Press's... so many cast iron surfaces, all protected with a very thing coat of wax. It's a beautiful thing.
Love the Ryobi blue.
Awesome! Thanks!
I went sanded with 800grit with my 6" ROS and the. Use PB Blaster Teflon spray. Worked great. I was worried that even 800 was too aggressive but I'm glad I saw this video.
I purchased a pneumatic jitterbug sander to do this using wet-dry automotive papers. I don’t trust the organic vapors around electric motors in close proximity. This trick works well on my very old Craftsmen saw. I was just given an upgrade, 2HP direct drive Craftsmen, with some serious rust on the top to which I will be applying this/your remedy. Who knows, the former owner may become jealous and want it back!
Great video Stumpy much appreciated🙌🤘🙌
RIP Billy Canstainer
Love this channel.
I have a Tauco tilting-table table saw. Circa 1939. Still working perfectly. For the last 18 years I have been using a nylon abrasive disc on my power drill to remove rust. Also called a face off pad. It's kind of like a very coarse scotch bright pad. In the beginning iI found rust build up within weeks but after finding a UA-cam video recommending Paste Wax I found the answer. Unfortunately we do not have paste wax in our Country but have something similar called Cobra Wax. After I stared applying this to the saw top, I only need the abrasive pad about every 18 months.
Great video on an important topic!
Thanks For The Great Info!!!! Much Appreciated!!!!! 😀😎👍
Thanks for sharing that!
Ah, I am a fair weather woodworker in Toronto suburbs. I basically have a garden shed that I call my workshop. It is too small for any of the big tools. So in my backyard, I have a delta tablesaw, dewalt 735X planer, 16 Craftex Bandsaw, Rikon Drill, a compressor, Vacuum etc... and yes they are literally under the sky. I keep them covered with heavy duty tarp when not in use. When I need them I take the tarp off the machines, do what I need to do and cover them back again. Each machine has its own tarp. I do this in all types of Canadian weather, well except when it is raining or snowing.
So all this back story just to say...while I agree with paste wax, the problem with it is that it comes off too easy. So if I was to apply paste wax and then use the machines for lets says 4-6 hours ..the wax is all gone, and if I was to cover it with tarp without applying a fresh coat, table will have light rust by next day (by light I mean, you can just wipe off with a cloth), however if I don't use the saw for a week, the rust would need to be sanded off.
I have tried various combinations, the best that work for me are silicon based rust inhibitors etc. ..however now I've got a rust proof that one of machine shop friend gave me. I was first cautioned against using silicon based products because they can supposedly prevent finish from getting applied. However just like Stumpy mentioned, I always need to sand anyway. In essence, what I wanted to say was that wax works however you may deligently need to apply it often if you are in a rust prone situation.
Excellent video! ! use Boshield and/or the last tin of my Jonsons paste wax.....on my saw, bandsaw, drill press, and metal lathe and milling machine. I live in Michigan and my tools are in a garage that also houses my two cars so that can expose the metal to condensation. But my own preferred method is to cover those metal surfaces with OSB plywood or regular plywood cut to fit the surface and that has been oiled down with a mixture of 50% WD40 and 50% thirty weight motor oil. Get the oil absorbed into the wood a bit and than remove all the excess. Those wooden covers protect from rust AND physical damage such as dropped tools or parts. Ir you have a metal lathe or milling machine you know how those tables and ways are ground and hand scrapped to incredible tolerances....and a dent from a dropped tool onto lathe ways or rust would ruin your day for sure. The chances of rust forming when you are using the tool is not an issue as you can keep it clean and wiped down as you work. Where the damage and rust happens is when you aren't using the tool and it is exposed to condensation, dirt, atmospheric contamination, spilled fluids (llike coffee or soda), overspray from airosols, etc. By the way WD 40 is a very poor lubricant....it is meant for moisture displacement. I believe it was developed for the miliatary to prevent rust on arms in very humid climates.
Early on I made the mistake of using a rust remover on my 8" jointer, not sure of the brand but it was too aggressive. The whole surface became black and very finely pitted. I am ready to bring it back to life. Thanks for the tip on not using sandpaper as cast iron is very soft. I will try to use minimal abrasion. It's not pretty now but it's still flat!
I would think that if the metal was pitted after using a chemical rust remover, it wasn't the remover that caused the pitting, it was the rust. Rust causes pitting. It just happens that the traditional way of removing rust using abrasives also mitigates the pitting, but a chemical remove won't.
I've been cleaning cast iron surfaces for years using WD-40 and a flat stone. Once I remove the rust I wax it just as you recommended. From there on, I wax it about once a month.
I use a silicone base lube that drys hard quickly. This has worked well for me over the years and is also very slick.
Careful of the silicone, it *will* leave orange peel.
As you were applying the naphtha after sanding, I was wondering why not stick with WD-40 ? And then you did! Good video!
I have had very limited success with paste wax. Bostic Glide Coat is expensive but gives excellent results for rust protection and smooth sliding for the wood and outlast the wax many, many times over.
Me and you both after I spray light coat wipe with paper towel me and paste wax I always make a mess glide coat cost more but easier for me
That's a nice looking top👍
For a saw I got, the rust and paint was so bad, I started with 150 grit on the random orbital with dust collection to bust through the crud and rust, then went to 220 grit that left a decent finish before I waxed it. Some day I’ll get it up to 400 grit polish.
Harvested from bellybuttons - I nearly spit my cocktail out through my nose! Poking around my dad's shop as a young lad, I found that bottle. The lurid color combined with my lack of spelling skills conjured that very image fifty years ago. It took me a long time to muster up the courage to ask him to explain....
I use a palm sander like that too! Except I found a scotchbrite sheet actually clips into it nicely, so I use that.
I bought my cabinet saw from a guy who must have stored the table in salt water. I ended up scraping off the rust with a putty knife, then orbital sanding the “remains” with 400 auto body paper, careful to sand evenly and consistently. I waxed it and went to work. After awhile, the faint sanding swirls were polished off by use.
I’d certainly never perform such a process on my Bridgeport mill table, but it’s been totally adequate for a woodworking machine.
I have used WD-40 and a paper towel (Scotch-Brite pad anywhere there is a whisper of surface rust) on all of my cast iron for at least 25 years. I remember all of the negative comments online, and in magazines, on how that was the worst thing yo could do. Then several years ago, I was reading a test in Fine Woodworking, and lo and behold, after extensive testing of some very expensive, and well touted products, WD-40 was picked if not the best, along with them. I have never bothered with paste wax, because when things aren't slick any longer (maybe 4 times a year), its time for more WD-40. I also don't tend to use paste wax, because when it's too cold to feel my fingers in the shop, WD-40 is still slippery.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Maybe you could do a follow-up video. I'd be interested to see how you might bring a saw back it's been aggressively sanded. Not for me I'm asking for a friend. He might have done serious damage the top of his song that he bought brand new 20 years ago and then sat in storage for 10 years and then with sanded aggressively and thought was beautiful again and then put back in storage for 5 years then I got it out recently it was really excited to click on this video so you could tell his friend about how you might be able to fix it. Hypothetically theoretically speaking. I'm sure he'd really appreciate it if you would do that.
Get a good, high quality straightedge and examine the top of the table for suspected low or high spots. Mark all the high spots with Dykem blue layout fluid, then sand those spots down slightly with something like 320 grit sand paper, just until the blue is removed. Then clean the whole top thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol and make sure all the grit is off, then remeasure the surface with the straightedge and repeat the process! Just take it slow and recheck flatness frequently, and you'll be able to pull it back into shape. Also if it's hard to see the high spots, put a bright light behind the straightedge. You can also paint the bottom of the straightedge with the layout fluid, and then press it onto the part of the table you want to check. It will transfer fluid to the table, and if any spots under the straightedge don't have blue on them, those are low spots. Be sure to check flat from a bunch of angles across the whole table to make sure you're actually creating a planar surface. It's probably going to take a while, so just go slow!
I agree with the reply by Evan....while Dykem will work I found that a simple Sharpy permanent maker drawn lines and shapes in the higher areas will guide you to what areas need to be reduced...and everyone has Sharpies around the shop. Of course I would only use this for an obviously badly distorted top. Otherwise I would not recommend fiddling with a good top. I have wood working tools and also a metal lathe and milling machine in my shop. The ways on a high end metal lathe actually use this method to get them to incredible levels of flatness....they use a sort of metal scraper to remove microscopic amounts of metal. That is a real (sadly becoming lost) art.
To add to what Evan said above,
Of flat straight and true, flatness is by far the easiest one to achieve. Find the lowest spot on the table, easiest with low viscosity oil, but dykam will work, so does a graphite pencil. Find a piece of float glass off yr neighbors house or something. Using super 77 spray adhesive attach 3M wetsanding paper to glass Using the straight edge, maybe a laser level, to help mark the depth settings your working towards. Normally I use this method to clean up planes and chisels by bringing the tool to the glass. In todays case were gonna bring the glass to the tool.
Place on a cleared and cleaned table saw surfacetop and start sanding. Be mindful of the edges of the glass and don't break it, for the love of God.
If you ever need a reference plate, or maybe you feel like DIYing a Metrology table, all you need is 3 stones. And a lot of dedication. Rub stone A against stone B. B-C. C-A. The only common surface between 3 planes is flat.
And here I was thinking WD-40, steel wool, and a cloth to wipe clean… am I thinking too aggressive or would that be fine?
@@evanbarnes9984 I'm thinking I might just throw the damn thing on the milling machine and hit it with a flycutter.....
I didn't have WD-40 so I used a bit of PB Blaster and a scotch brite pad. Worked great.
Been using Johnson's Paste Wax for years. Works great...........
Fine steel wool and oil👍🏻exactly right. Paste wax before storing. Nice video.
I use super fine steel wool with paste wax. Follow up with a buff with a soft cloth. Don't get too aggressive on that pressure though. No rust and my wood glides across the surface.
Hi James, I enjoyed your take on cast iron surface maintenance.
My go to is my trusty orbital sander, I use a 5" machine. I too clean the surface with WD40 then I start out with 220 pads or 320 then move through 400 and finish with 600 and do a final wipe down as you showed. Johnsons paste wax is the best choice for me as well just don't let it sit too long. If it dries you'll be losing muscle mass before the surface is polished.
As a side note WD40 is NOT a lubricant, it just displaces moisture thats all. WD makes lubricants but WD40 isn't one of them. Look forward to your next vid.
Taipan Woodworks
I love me some Jonhson Paste Wax. Especially because of the friction free surface it leaves behind. My truck never gets wax, but my tabletops see it religiously.
I sooooo needed this to sell my table saw :) , its not realy rusty. But i need to clean it.
I do the paste wax on my saw about twice a year and all is good. No rust at all!
Nice video. Just would like to share that Johnson's paste wax has been discontinued, no longer available most anywhere and whoever has stock, the prices have shot up like crazy.
There are other brands available.
Since you're talking about rust, the youtube channel Practical engineering just began a series on rust prevention/management.
So, since the first video of that serie was about cathodic protection, that makes me wonder, does anybody use cathodes for rust prevention on tools like table saw tops and such ?
It feels like it could be real cheap, and help protect the stuff in the long run. I'm thinking of putting one on the anvil I use for forging outside.
I use satin water based poly or shellac to seal my cast iron surfaces.
Hey Stumpy,
Have you heard anything about how carbon coat has been working for people over any kind of time. I have a new dovetail Harvey TS and love it. I want it to make it through the winter in my cold garage. Ty
Bill
Dang that saw top is beautiful
0:34 THANK YOU for explaining were "Naval Jelly" comes from I Appreciate your Humor. It is Reminiscent of you EARLY VIDEOS.
I recently did this but my cloth was coming out dirty when wiping the wax on. Is that normal or do I need to go back and wipe everything down again and rewax?
Like that ceramic wax hybrid, since i used it the condensation hasn't formed on my table saw at all, {wasn't a problem till I moved to Fl.} I've heard it can discolor finish but haven't experienced it at all.
And as always excellent vid Stumpy.
How about a jobsite saw with paste wax? No issues currently with sliding boards across the surface but curious about future projects over time.
This maybe a stupid question but is it ok to use those sand flex pads on the bottom of plane irons? Like it won’t take theM out of flat
Hi James question, I bought a scroll that was used, my guestion is will this method work on a Delta scroll saw table it doesn't have a lot of rust just in 2 areas besides the blade entry slot about 4" by 6" thank you for the video and specially your time 👍😁
Any cast iron tool
I have a RYOBI saw the table is I guess, what do you recommend?
Thanks James, that would apply (pun intended) to my new Harvey Ambassador band saw (based on your recommendation). WD40, didn’t realize that one. Thanks again!
I manage a gun store and use Jig-A-Loo to keep firearms free of rust when stored over long periods. It is solvent-based, which is harmful to plastic or polymer, but this might work on table saw tops as well. I think it's manufactured in your country.
Good tips, but I have another dilemma with a table saw top. It's a well used 200yr old table top with tons of pits. Being cast iron of some sort, I thought about surface grinding it taking off a really thin layer, but concerned with age & being cast the heat would warp it. Asked about have top brazed as well, but again the heat could ruin it. Final thought is mixing a very thin coat of epoxy with silver coloring to try and fill the divits, but takes away from the character. My goal is to restore this saw to working condition again, so any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The top is still usable as is, but was going for a cleaner classier look the a top with a gazillion nicks pots, & dings on surface..
If you're really serious about resurfacing your tablesaw table, then consider shipping it to a company that can perform Blanchard Grinding on the table. This is the process that was very likely used to flatten the table top 200 years ago. It produces that distinctive overlapping circular grind pattern that you may have seen before, and can deliver flatness of 0.002" or better across the entire part. Go ahead and look up Blanchard Grinding, and see if there's a company around that can help you with your restoration.
Any tips on flatning table saw tops?
Any cleaning solvent recommendations for those of us in California? I like the citrus stuff, but it can cost about as much as the tool I'm cleaning.
I go a little overboard after rust removal I use T9 boeshield then after that dries I use paste wax. I live in florida so it's always humid here. It's been about 6 months since I applied it in a none climate controlled shop with zero rust.
I’ve heard “Fluid Film” is good because of the lanolin base. It does whiff a bit but really does protect machinery.
Its a great undercoating, treatment for farm implements and garden tools. I think its too thick and messy for shop tools.
Would use of a Random Orbital sander do damage such as swirls on the table top or any other issues?
Thanks,
Jim
Amature DIY guy here, would you also recommend paste wax for an aluminum podwer coated top jobsite table saw? Its not that it needs corrosion protection
So much as im trying to make feeding smoother.
the trick I was taught was neutral color shoe polish for rust protection. but I don't know how it would get along with woodworking. gun bluing remover will also make severe rust go away quick. along with pretty much anything you spill it on.
On day my mom cleaned the windows in my workspace, she forgot her waterbucket on my planer and it stood there for 3 days, as usual there was water on the bottem. After I put it away, I was shocked, there was already a rusted circle on it, good for her I was able to remove it
SC Johnson Paste wax is $147 on Amazon.
Down here by the gulf coast paste wax just doesn't cut it if you use your saw daily (pun intended) I've been using T9 for the last 2 years and went from stripping and reapplying paste wax twice a month to stripping and reapplying T9 maybe 2 to 3 times a year. Mostly all in the winter
I used to see a lot of advice that talcum power was a good alternative to paste wax for the table saw top. What is the current opinion on that?
Just avoid using Johnson & Johnson, I'd hate to hear your tool developing cancer later on.......
i use sc Johnson paste wax and just keep it from rusting to start with.
I like the Johnson's paste wax but I don't think they're making it anymore. I've always found paste wax hard to remove (especially if you put it on thick), but a little trick I discovered with the Johnson's is if you put it inside a piece of t-shirt material and use it as an applicator, you get a uniform thin coat, which is much easier to buff off. Tried it with the Minwax "finishing wax" but it doesn't work nearly as well.
Wow. Just googled it. You are right. I hadn't heard until now. This kinda hurts my heart a little.
When I had lite rust in Michigan I used a pompous stone.
If you were to polish the crap out of the top would it be more rust resistant?
Dangit, I had to rewind. Was laughing too hard after the Naval Jelly comment.