I Don't Get Why People Still Use These Joints
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 сер 2024
- Ever wonder what woodworking joints are best? A beginners guide to the joints that you need to focus on, that will help you start building better projects today.
Check out the full lineup from PEC. Use code "LINCOLNSTREET" at checkout for 5% off your order influint.link/LSWW_PEC
🔴Affiliate Links
½ Forstner Bit - geni.us/qudO6u
Plug Cutter - geni.us/I43hKn
Pocket Hole Jig - geni.us/vOvd9xj
Digital Gauge - geni.us/Digital-Guage
Rabbeting Bit - geni.us/PEm6kLB
Kerf Maker - geni.us/DAJaGAw
🔴Support LSWW
Merchandise: www.lincolnstwoodworks.com/st...
Stickers: www.lincolnstwoodworks.com/st...
Plans: www.lincolnstwoodworks.com/st...
Subscribe:
/ @lincolnstww
🔴Follow us on Instagram:
/ lincolnst.woodworks
Check out the full lineup from PEC. Use code "LINCOLNSTREET" at checkout for 5% off your order influint.link/LSWW_PEC
Is there a way to get the black and gold? I only ever see them in a blue and satin. Which is fine, but black and gold….
I second @@Existential_brian , where did the black and gold starred come from?
I like your videos, thanks
Dide
Don't really appreciate the clickbait title line for this video. You spend the entire video explaining the value of basic joints, not critiquing them.
Quit smoking and you'll never need a joint again.
Back to sniffing glue then!
You really need to insert a ‼️Dad Joke‼️ warning label before you put out stuff like this.
"I don't need it... I definitely don't need it" 🧽
What about a joint of meat?
@@Boethius4748 Thank you! I'll keep that in mind when practising ‼️Dado Jokes‼️
I agree with your reasoning, but in the world of antiques and furniture restoration, you can't deny that a dovetail is a beautiful piece of wood engineering 😊.
I think he agreed dovetails are really nice, but said you shouldn't focus on them as a beginner. For me I love the look of nice hand cut dovetails so I DID start with that. It is very frustrating at first but when you get it. It feels like I can cut any joint by hand now. On the other side I could've gotten to frustrated and just quit altogether.
As he said other joints are used more frequently or are just better to first do. Then go onto dovetails.
Learning all available joints and eventually using them in projects. Gaining confidence and skill. Using dovetails when appropriate. Projects that you want to build to look a certain way or have specific requirements.
The point being, when dovetails are the preferred option, do not be afraid of cutting them.
i comment above that I use them also, but pretty much only hand cut now. MOST of the time I use dowels. Yes, hand cut dovetails are a beautiful sign of craftsmanship. Back 100 years ago, folks could cut the quickly. Rob Crossman, can cut them quickly and others too, but most of us can't. I've cut a fair amount but I'm not anywhere near as good as Rob. So what. I still can make some beautiful pieces. Making art is wonderful for the soul.
If I've learned anything, it's all about the specific application. Doesn't matter what joint it is.
I hate them, they look terrible to me and far too noticeable. They've also became increasingly more popular and i see them too much
Having been trained as a cabinetmaker and educated as an industrial arts teacher with over 40 years in the field, I would have to disagree with some of your advice. Mechanical fasteners have their place in woodworking, primarily attaching hardware and holding things together while glue dries - not in face frames doors and drawers. In these situations, particularly if objects move (i.e. doors and drawers) mechanical fasteners eventually work loose. Even on face frames, I have gone back on jobs done by others where cabinet face frames have failed because the fasteners in the pocket joints have worked loose AND the glue has failed with the butt to edge joint.
I've been an amateur woodworker all my life and I completely agree with you. There can be a fine line between nice joinery and crappy carpentry but what's shown here is on the side of crappy carpentry. Dovetails and mortise and tenon joints have been around for millennia for a reason. They work! You're better off if you learn how to do them and if you prefer the machine approach, acquire the equipment you need. For me, I'll stick with my assortment of antique bench planes and chisels to get the job done, but each to his own.
Agreed...I cringed when the screw went into end grain. That's fine for those super coarse thread IKEA fasteners going into particle board but...yikes.
We have the snobby snobs on this thread 😮
Your point points out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Each method has its strong points and it's weak points.
@@SharkBite-nm4yo We have the "we've reinvented the wheel" types on your side of the thread. You know, the type that shows up with "we've made a new bycicle wheel" - and they show a solid bicycle wheel with springs or rubber with holes... and then you go back in time, pick up a magazine from the 1910's and ... see basically the exact same thing. And then you wonder, huh... why didn't it stick... then you realize, oh... maybe it didn't stick because it's a convoluted idea that's borne of snobish inividuals who think they're better than the accepted and long tested method.
“Get out there and make a bunch of mistakes” great advice! I’m really good at making long boards short. Not so good at making short boards long.
just a little bit of practice, and you can do it. !!!
😂👍😊
Measure once, cut until you have to go back to the store, lol.
OMFG you just explained to me why my grandmother's old picture frames had coins in their corners on the backside!
I'd always just assumed it was some kind fancy decoration (that faced the wall?) or weird trend they did a hundred years ago.
Thank you!
No problem!
From an old boat carpenter's point of view you did a good job at explaining the basics.
When structure is the most important thing we use glued and screwed corner posts.
Gluing and screwing compliment each other. Screws have clamping power, but shear can make them wobble loose. Glue doesn't shear easily but have a limit in tension. Together they form a very good joint. BTW, "water resistant" glues shouldn't be used on a boat, Epoxies and Resorcinol are the only acceptable choices as far as I know.
Corner posts give far greater glue area and screws don't have to be held by end grain. Other joints can be used in places not subject to joint movement. Mitres have a problem in a marine environment where changes in moisture make the outside of the joint open up, leaving a birdsmouth.
Wasn't Jesus a carpenter?
Instead of plugged hidden screws I prefer visible dowels. Glue, screw temporary for clamping, unscrew, drill dowel holes on screw holes, dowel.
As a result there is no steel hidden inside the wood. No fancy tool is needed. The dowels allways will fit perfectly.
Second. This technique makes doweling tons easier (and fun) to work with.
Who the hell cares if there is steel hidden inside your wood? You’re not x-raying your furniture, no one will ever see it
@@manny9323 Have you ever had a blade get ruined by a screw or nail before? It's not pleasant, even more so if the bale is expensive/annoying to sharpen or get it sharpened.
But ye it's more of a annoyance that builders deal with when they demo and it's kinda in the back of our heads all the time if we ever take apart anything.
What is your favorite dowel jig?
@@manny9323 When joining to end grain, a dowel is stronger than a screw. It's also a royal pain to have a screw fail that has been plugged. Plugging involves just as much work as removing the screws, drilling and doweling.
Real men just nail it together with zero planning
Sorry, gave up nails when I bought my first battery screw gun, so many years ago !
Your videos have made me feel empowered and brave enough to just start making stuff the way im able to make it, not the way people on the internet tell me it has to be. My work isnt amazing, but im actually making things with my hands, and even with its flaws and the mistakes im making, im pretty proud of it, and having fun. I appreciate you.
And I appreciate you more than you know!
Heh, after watching one of these videos I just go back to the shed and screw everything together like I'm building a house. Good enough for me and if my wife doesn't like it she can try doing better herself. 😂
One of my favorite channels is Uri Tuchman. He does kind of rough work and leaves his mistakes in the video, but it's always really interesting & creative.
Every time I watch a video of his I think I could/should make something cool.
www.youtube.com/@urituchmanpigeon
Using mitres will "trick people into thinking you're actually good at woodworking." Well it's working, you look like a master.
Loved this! From essentially a baseline of zero woodworking knowledge I learned more info I actually understood from this short video than any other woodworking DYI I've ever watched. Definitely liked and subscribed. Thanks for this!
Not related to anything but I appreciated that he showed 4 different power tool brands within 20 seconds, DeWalt, Festool, Ryobi, & Bosch. Got a subscribe for that.
Very informative without being preachy or condescending. Teaching is a calling. ❤
Are you kidding? He literally starts out by crapping on all the other people in internet land who have given advice on building furniture then proceeded to tell us why we should ignore all the ancient techniques and just use screws. This was the most preachy and condescending video I have seen.
the old saying- those who can do... those who can't teach...
A calling thats not his, apparently. This video runs over basic teaching skills.
Thank you for this video. Your clarity and humility make woodworking feel possible. I am right at the beginning of my journey, but even executing the simplest construction makes me feel good in a way that nothing else does!
Yours, a beginner.
I couldn't care less about everyone arguing over whats stronger, whats going to last longer, etc. Admit it, we all got into woodworking because we wanted to make things that look cool, and thats why we use specific joints.
Some of us got into woodworking to make our space more functional, and learning this stuff is incredibly helpful.
My goal is to trick people into thinking I'm good at wood working. That's why your videos are the best out there!
Less than 1 minute in and I got educated on multiple facets of tree cutting!
Yet another reason I adore your channel mate!
_"If you need anything better than that go build a spaceship"_ ! THAT had me ROLLING!😂
Don’t forget about that end joint called the dominotail - the 90 degree is unnecessarily trimmed into a sort of hexagon that beautifully showcases and properly honors a love for fine Festool joinery.
LOL! 🤣
Hahahah 😂
LMAO - you win the comment section IMO!
I love the fact that you don’t just batch out videos showing the same old crap that some do but that rather your videos are obviously well thought out (and no doubt researched) and actually give me information that is useful to me in a no bullshit kinda funny way. I look forward to the next one!
Just reiterating this point. I’d rather wait a few weeks for a great video than have constant low quality content.
Thanks Shaun
My best ever score, during my school days in any subject, was 19/20 for my blind dovetails. Forget the science or option, my pride for this won't change! 😊
Great video, even for old timers like me who love all things wood and lumber. My exper. mostly large-scale const. Now retired, my interest is fine woodworking, from small decorative boxes, to chests of drawers, dressers, coffee tables, china cabinets and dining tables. Thank you again! Please keep up your great work!
I don't get this fear of dovetails thing. Once you've cut a few they are pretty easy, look great and are satisfying to do. Go on, give it a go!
Are you a teacher by trade?? You're so good at breaking complicated concepts down and making them more understandable. The straw visual was incredible helpful!
He is clearly not a teacher as he uses the panel saw without the guard which is potentially dangerous. He needs some education in how to use a saw
Thanks!
Thank you for your video. I really liked how you encourage us to try and not worry about making mistakes. That's the only way we can learn - through our success and mistakes.
Very information dense, seen several videos on joints that for some reason never addressed wood grain. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks.
Awesome, thanks in advance for this video!
EDIT: Yep, mistake did happen, and will happen again. It's always good to learn some more or come back to the basics.
I got kicked out of the woodshop in school for breaking a broom over someone's head so I needed the help.
Your transition from joints to a commercial for PEC tools was pretty creative.
One of your best videos…. Thank you so much for sharing. ❤❤❤
So much great info here. Bravo!
Great explanatory video.
Thank you
DUDE! YOU are an incredible communicator!!! You make woodworking approachable!!!!!!
Thanks
Love the video bud. Thank you,
Excellent primer on joints and cuts. I always have trouble knowing the difference between cuts. Thanks!
All true. The advantage of the older joinery techniques is that they function without the adhesive. The pinned and wedged mortice and tenon joints don't use glue. They last more than 100 years when properly executed. A good video my opinion.
Because they had to due to lack of good glue. They may not fall apart, but they will loosen.
@@christiannorf1680 Sure, wedged M&Ts loosen. And they can easily be re-tightened.
Pinned? If you have pinned them right in hard wood, they won't loosen.
@@AC-cg4beif they are pinned with steel fasteners like cut nails they do get loose. All those chairs made in the 90s that everyone has/had a set of are falling apart because they use screws or brads to hold them together
@@christiannorf1680 That's ridiculous. Glue is used since the Neolithics. Egyptians used wood glue for building furniture 4000yrs ago. The same kind of glue was still used 100yrs ago and is today. There was never lack of good glue.
@@clauslangenbroek9897 Bronze knifes have been used for centuries, yet still you'll have trouble finding one today.
They used what they had at hand. Your statement assumes that all glue produced was of good quality and pretend that micro organisms, moisture and shelf life are no issue for glues based on animal protein.
That's as ridiculous as you accuse my statement to be.
Very well described and shown, thank you. I primarily use box joints for drawers, as well as butt joints with dowels for larger projects.
Your wood working how to vids of way better than all the rest out there. Keep a steady hand, pls do not rush it. You looked, investigated, understood, did it better. Now just keep at it. Doing it in your own, natural way. It's the best and will pay off. No pressure is best practice. Always. Long term. No comparison. Ever. Please. Awesome shit man.
I really like your channel and I always learn a ton!! I like your jokes and style of delivery too! You are doing all of us beginners a great service and good entertainment too!
I appreciate that!
I find that a major consideration when choosing what type of joint to use is what is easiest to glue, clamp and assemble. Especially when you have many pieces that need to be glued at the same time. Some types of joints will by themselves help to align and pull the pieces together. Also, the glue, screw, unscrew then plug method can work well for pieces that are difficult to clamp.
WOW. thank you. you answered so many questions i have thought about for some time. and that sponsor spot was so good i didnt even realize i was watching it until it was nearly over. great job on this vid
Glad it was helpful!
Good information for new woodworkers.
Nice overview of different techniques and tricks for beginners. There are way too many videos talking about joint strength that frankly don't reflect real world usage. Dovetails are great but other joints are easier to make. PEC makes great squares - I bought a combination set years ago and love it.
Excellent video! Thank you!
I love your presentation style, and get that many times a simple joint is all that's needed - it's a good point. But surely a dovetail beats all when the joint come under tension, e.g. holding the bottom of a wall cupboard to a side.
What an informative video! Please make more videos in this format.
Another excellent video! Ive been woodworking for a couple years now for fun and i owe a lot to this channel. thank you and rock on
Awesome thanks!
Thank you you answered all the questions i didn't know i had about jointing wood. Thank you
Happy to help!
Drawers are not sufficiently stressed to break in that location. First, it's tradition; second, it looks sweet, dude!
Dovetails will never fail in a drawer. There is a reason they have been used for thousands of years.
Thanks for describing the basics. An interesting and potentially very useful blade is a 1/4" carbide table saw blade I had custom made for special cuts and projects. The 1/4" kerf opens a lot of potential uses.
Thank you for an excellent teaching video. In Australia, where I have been teaching high school Industrial Arts (your comparison would be wood shop, metal shop, etc…) I taught Year 10 woodwork students how to hand cut Dovetail joints that they must include at least once in a project. Not to have them become master craftsmen, but to show them what is possible. Most never want to do them again, but some loved the challenge and the ensuing sense of accomplishment. If a 16 yr old kid can do it many of your viewers would be able to. May be another video idea for those that wish to try. FYI, dado and rabbit joints don’t exist outside the USA that I know of. As you said a dado is a trench so everyone else calls it a …… trench! Which is across the grain, rebate on an edge and a groove along the grain. One point you could emphasise is extra support from shoulders - not just glue area in dovetails, M&T, even housing joints. It’s not just greater glue area. Finally, are you likely to consider a marking knife? They go a long way to showing off perfect joinery. Once more thanks for the great teaching video. Even after 40 years in the classroom/workshop, I’m still learning. Lloyd
Beautiful presentation thank you buddy.
Great video dude. I've been woodworking for years and this is a very succinct video that combines a lot of the simpler techniques I use. I do it for fun and hobby, so because they're simple I don't waste a ton of time on fooling around with joinery
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great vid. I always enjoy I do and humor
Great vid, thanks!
Lincoln you've done it again. Explain something in such a way that I finally understand it.
My man
I'm not even a woodworker, but your channel rocks ❤
Thank you, that was an excellent and concisely explained video.
Great video, very informative. In future, I would love to see you experiment with some locking joints, Japanese style.
You are a great teacher! Nice work.
Wonderful audio.... Thank you
9:48 I'll never be able to watch the movie _Deliverance_ again the same way. 😂
He gawt a real purdy mouth, ainee 😁
Excelent and simple demonstratives with the straws and glue. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Just come across your channel and you’re throwing out some great tips, here.
As a 56 year old avid novice, I thank you.
Subbed 👍
Awesome, thank you!
another banger! always find your videos extremely educational/useful...thanks!
I appreciate that!
Excellent video. Love miters, bevels, dowels and plugs personally.
End to end joinery can be done with finger joints. Seems to me those have been mostly forgotten over the years.
Great video! Heading out to the shop right now to make a bunch of mistakes..LOL
Nice!!! One of my fave channels
I love this video. It shows just how great these simpler joints can be both practically and aesthetically. For beginners, and let's face it, just about all of us, the satisfaction of making a successful project only spurs us to move on to more ambitious projects.
I love your style! =) inspiring!
I used the circle of plywood trick today on a project after seeing this. Thank you!
If you want a better finish, then use a whole cutter. Don't use a jigsaw to cut it out or for an even nicer finish a butterfly that involves a lot more work though.....
Glad I could help!
Excellent video!
Really good info. Accurate comparisons.
One point to keep in mind when using a table saw to cut joints such as dados and lap joints is that most blades have teeth that leave a U or V shape perpendicular to the direction of the cut. To prevent this use a blade with a flat top grind (FTG) tooth profile.
I've noticed this when I've cut dados, it leaves material I had to chisel out. I think dado stacks solve for it, but a pain to set up. Where do you get FTG blades? I don't think I've seen them in HD or Lowe's since they seem more specific to woodworking, but maybe I missed them.
@@MorrMedia1 Probably won't find them in big box stores but look for low tooth count "ripping" blades. That's not a guarantee but FTG are usually (always?) rip blades.
Combination blades almost always have Rakers every 4-6 ATB/HI-ATB (Alternate Tooth Bevel/High Alternate Tooth Bevel) Unfortunately many rip blades are made as thin kerf with ATB or HI-ATB due to portable saws and battery tools.
Use conventional cross cut blade and ask your sharpening guy to sharpen it flat instead of conventional 15 degree alternating angle @@MorrMedia1
Who makes that type of blade?
When I did my apprenticeship in cabinet making and carpentry . We were always taught to dovetail because it is beautiful and strong .
As someone with pretty basic skills who wants to get better, this is one of the most truly helpful woodworking videos I've seen. Thanks a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent! Really enjoyed your video...
Perfect amount of explanation. A bit more than I knew I needed, but not enough to stop paying attention 😊
Excellent!
Wood workers used to cover dovetail joints with trim to hide them. Now they put them on display, proudly.
Great video Thanks for sharing
Nice information for the new woodworker. Your lack of master shows in your conclusions that are based on some else’s tests and not your own experience over time. It’s true modern glues are stronger than old ones, however a mechanical joint will always be stronger long term than a glued one. I use to believe what you do but age and experience has shown me otherwise. I do wish videos such as this were around when I was starting out decades ago as it would have shortened my learning curve. It’s refreshing to see a younger generation taking up woodworking. Best of luck with the channel!
Simply put, it looks nice
I made a box recently. I wanted to do mitre joins but on the first attempt I had exactly the problem in the video, despite measuring and stacking opposite sides before cutting. So I gave up on that and did butt joins using dowels. I didn't think of making a jig until after I had finished it, but it worked anyway.
Really interesting, and a lot of sense talked. Thank you.
My pleasure!
always very well explained
awesome video - thanks - mr
this is some good info man. thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Enjoyed your video - as always.
My great grandfather made a set of drawers to fit in a narrow space. The drawer fronts (mahogany) were set in rabbets. And then glued and 3 slim brass nails secured the sides to the front, I'd guess to clamp them as the glue set. One drawer was missing, and I was able to replicate it pretty well re the wood and found some brass nails that looked similar.
The drawers he made, well over 100 years ago, were still solid. I also have some drawers he made in oak drawer fronts with dovetails. They did not hold up as well, despite that the drawer cabinet likely got more use. I also repaired the oak piece, though not the dovetails.
Great educational video.
Great video. Very clear!
Glad it was helpful!
I prefer the stopped cut on the table saw for miter splines because the groove it leaves is concave/hollow along its length rather than flat like with a sled jig. Since I don't own a flat tooth table saw blade, the groove ends up with a slight 'V' that is unsightly and needs to be cleaned up with a chisel. The flat grooves need to be cleaned up along the entire length to seat the spline and achieve a seamless look, but the hollow groove only needs to be cleaned up on the ends--much quicker and almost foolproof. Small detail, but I haven't heard it mentioned before.
This was a great video with a great explanation of wood structure along with the possible joints for any project. My first rule about making is there really aren't any rules except what you want to follow in your own shop. Getting everyone to agree on the same standard practice would keep us arguing for a century. Tips are just experienced advice that you can take or leave.
Thanks!
Lots of good quality information. Great video.
Glad it was helpful!
Patrick Sullivan made a video showing that end grain to end grain is stronger than edge grain to edge grain, but the point of the cellulose fibers being stronger than the glue still stands. If you're gluing two pieces of endgrain together, I would definitely still reinforce it. Edge grain to edge grain glue-ups are still pretty strong, stronger than the natural lignin, so I will definitely continue using edge grain to edge grain and edge grain to end grain glue-ups in my work.
Yeah I think the big issue people missed in that video is that the wood failed in the edge to edge. So it’s not an apples to apples that one joint is “stronger” it somewhat confirmed what we already know, glue is stronger than lignin. But people still lost their minds over it
I learned to use dowels at school. And also tongue and groove.
I made a small shelf that fit cassette tapes.
Very satisfactory methods.
Excellent video. It is absolutely true that modern glues have changed woodworking, and your summary of joining methods is excellent. Incidentally, I am a fan of Products Engineering measurement tools. They are excellent -- everything from precision rulers to squares. Thank you for the time spent to put this together. Cheers.
Thank you very much!
Thanks for this!!
@@careyhartmann5540 no problem!
Wow, I learned so much watching this. I knew about dado and rabbit joints and Adding splines.
Glad to hear that dovetails are weaker than other joints lol, Wasn’t keen on buying extra jigs etc to make them. $$$.
Difference of dado and groove was new and adding the round spline was cool. Have not tried laps yet, and setting the blade height is great to know.
Kerf tool? Okay, I need one. I hate figuring kerf for cuts.
Yes, I am following u now!
Such a helpful and well explained video. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!