I'm old now, but my grandfather in the 1930's used to make lovely furniture using hidden dovetail joints (no end-grain visible), held together with bone glue. The furniture looks immaculate to this day, with no play in any of the joints, and it will almost certainly outlive me, and probably my son too. Modern glues are certainly more convenient, however, you can't dismantle a PVA glued joint without destroying them, whereas bone glued joints can be re-melted with some heat for disassembly and transport. (NB: I agree entirely with the video that beginners should not be starting off trying to use fancy cabinet making techniques like hidden dovetail joints)
I didn't know what hidden dovetails were, but google... what was kind enough to point me in the direction so i couls inform myself. I just wanted to say thank you for making this comment. I too had a grandfather who was a fantastic carpenter So I can relate to that.. I didn't know how he did a lot of what he did back then, but I do now and Can't help but appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your Grandpa's talent. Because now I know what hidden dovetails are And how to go about making them.. Somewhat lol
That straw anology for how wood grain direction works was phenomenal. I've seen so many woodworking youtubers try to explain grain and where to joint or glue and it all sounds so overcomplicated. But now, I can understand exactly where to glue and when to use other fastener support.
As a trained woodworker (and a user of rebates here in UK) I was told to be very careful about screwing into end grain. The straw analogy makes it clear that the screw is going into a bunch of tubes, so will not be very secure.
It's also really useful to think about how those "straws" are arranged in a circle. It's circular because that's how the tree trunk grows -- adding additional circular layers of fibers over time. That's what growth rings in a tree trunk are. There's all sorts of information and terminology about boards that result from this, which can be confusing to understand, but if you start from understanding the circle, all the rest of that fits into that understanding. The second piece of the puzzle is, when people talk about "wood movement", understand that it's mostly about the circumference of that circle, because that measurement is the one that increases/decreases the most, over time. Wood movement is all about how wood expands and contracts over the course of the year as the humidity changes and the wood fibers absorb and release water vapor. Specifically, the *fibers* expand and contract. That fact, combined with the circular arrangement of the fibers, dictates how any board cut from a tree trunk expands and contracts. All of the special terms for this stuff are just labels for different aspects of that. Again, back to the tree trunk: the entire cylindrical bundle expands and contracts. If you think about simple geometry and measurements of a circle, you have radius and you have circumference. You can look at that geometry and it's obvious that circumference is the largest measurement. That also means that when the cylinder expands and contracts, the most expansion and contraction is going to be in the circumference. That means you can look at any two boards, look at the end grain to see how each was cut out of a cylindrical tree trunk, and figure out how they are going to expand and contract differently. Two common terms that people use are "radial", which obviously comes from radius, and "tangential", which is a term woodworkers borrowed from geometry and it has a slightly mutated meaning in woodworking. The short version of the geometry meaning is that a tangent line is a straight line that just barely grazes a circle. In woodworking, when people say tangential, they really mean "tangential plane", meaning a cut line that's at right angles to the radial line of the tree trunk. So they may describe a board as "tangentially sawn", meaning it's cut at right angles to the radial line. Or they may describe a board as "radially sawn", meaning it's cut parallel to the radial line. Everything else is just somewhere in between these two extremes in terms of the angles, and how those angles result in some slice of the circular arrangement of fibers, and how that slice/arrangement changes how the board "moves". The second largest factor is, of course, how curved the growth rings in that board are, which is about the board's original position in the tree trunk, i.e. distance between the board and the center point of the tree trunk. Also note, people are sloppy with terminology, for example you may hear people call a radially cut board "quarter sawn" but the two are not the same identical thing... but close enough that it's not necessarily a big deal most of the time. This is easier to explain visually than with words, so here's a couple web sites with good drawings: www.permachink.com/resources/applicator-program/wood-movement-what-you-should-know-before-you-apply www.jefflefkowitzchairmaker.com/chairmakers-journal/grain-orientation-and-wood-movement-part-1 And this guy has a good, short video about it: facebook.com/reel/2034251250380526
I agree with your reasoning, but in the world of antiques and furniture restoration, you can't deny that a dovetail is a beautiful piece of wood engineering 😊.
I think he agreed dovetails are really nice, but said you shouldn't focus on them as a beginner. For me I love the look of nice hand cut dovetails so I DID start with that. It is very frustrating at first but when you get it. It feels like I can cut any joint by hand now. On the other side I could've gotten to frustrated and just quit altogether. As he said other joints are used more frequently or are just better to first do. Then go onto dovetails.
Learning all available joints and eventually using them in projects. Gaining confidence and skill. Using dovetails when appropriate. Projects that you want to build to look a certain way or have specific requirements. The point being, when dovetails are the preferred option, do not be afraid of cutting them.
i comment above that I use them also, but pretty much only hand cut now. MOST of the time I use dowels. Yes, hand cut dovetails are a beautiful sign of craftsmanship. Back 100 years ago, folks could cut the quickly. Rob Crossman, can cut them quickly and others too, but most of us can't. I've cut a fair amount but I'm not anywhere near as good as Rob. So what. I still can make some beautiful pieces. Making art is wonderful for the soul.
Having been trained as a cabinetmaker and educated as an industrial arts teacher with over 40 years in the field, I would have to disagree with some of your advice. Mechanical fasteners have their place in woodworking, primarily attaching hardware and holding things together while glue dries - not in face frames doors and drawers. In these situations, particularly if objects move (i.e. doors and drawers) mechanical fasteners eventually work loose. Even on face frames, I have gone back on jobs done by others where cabinet face frames have failed because the fasteners in the pocket joints have worked loose AND the glue has failed with the butt to edge joint.
I've been an amateur woodworker all my life and I completely agree with you. There can be a fine line between nice joinery and crappy carpentry but what's shown here is on the side of crappy carpentry. Dovetails and mortise and tenon joints have been around for millennia for a reason. They work! You're better off if you learn how to do them and if you prefer the machine approach, acquire the equipment you need. For me, I'll stick with my assortment of antique bench planes and chisels to get the job done, but each to his own.
@@SharkBite-nm4yo We have the "we've reinvented the wheel" types on your side of the thread. You know, the type that shows up with "we've made a new bycicle wheel" - and they show a solid bicycle wheel with springs or rubber with holes... and then you go back in time, pick up a magazine from the 1910's and ... see basically the exact same thing. And then you wonder, huh... why didn't it stick... then you realize, oh... maybe it didn't stick because it's a convoluted idea that's borne of snobish inividuals who think they're better than the accepted and long tested method.
From an old boat carpenter's point of view you did a good job at explaining the basics. When structure is the most important thing we use glued and screwed corner posts. Gluing and screwing compliment each other. Screws have clamping power, but shear can make them wobble loose. Glue doesn't shear easily but have a limit in tension. Together they form a very good joint. BTW, "water resistant" glues shouldn't be used on a boat, Epoxies and Resorcinol are the only acceptable choices as far as I know. Corner posts give far greater glue area and screws don't have to be held by end grain. Other joints can be used in places not subject to joint movement. Mitres have a problem in a marine environment where changes in moisture make the outside of the joint open up, leaving a birdsmouth.
finally a youtuber that doesn't act like a know it all and can admit that they make mistakes just like the rest of us. love the channel man! keep it up
This taught me the all the weird dowels and grooves in Ikea furniture actually make a lot of sense, and why it survived multiple moves even though it's just 'cheap' materials
I have a solid dresser with the "old style" joints. I've owned it for about 40 years. I inherited it from my grandmother. It was given to her when her father refinished his home ~1950. A conservative estimate on how long he'd had it is 10 years (more likely 20+). So, this dresser is ~85 years old and the drawers work flawlessly - the joints never loosen, the drawers always stay on track no matter how tightly stuffed with clothes. I've never known anything, used equivalently, with wood screws to last anywhere near that long. These joints last longer than a Bob Marley spliff!
@@franziskaniabsolutely. Not that I want us to keep cutting down old growth oak forests, but the difference between that and high moisture pine/fir from the big box store (or worse yet particle board that won't even hold screw) is night and day. I use old wood when I can.
Your videos have made me feel empowered and brave enough to just start making stuff the way im able to make it, not the way people on the internet tell me it has to be. My work isnt amazing, but im actually making things with my hands, and even with its flaws and the mistakes im making, im pretty proud of it, and having fun. I appreciate you.
Heh, after watching one of these videos I just go back to the shed and screw everything together like I'm building a house. Good enough for me and if my wife doesn't like it she can try doing better herself. 😂
One of my favorite channels is Uri Tuchman. He does kind of rough work and leaves his mistakes in the video, but it's always really interesting & creative. Every time I watch a video of his I think I could/should make something cool. www.youtube.com/@urituchmanpigeon
Instead of plugged hidden screws I prefer visible dowels. Glue, screw temporary for clamping, unscrew, drill dowel holes on screw holes, dowel. As a result there is no steel hidden inside the wood. No fancy tool is needed. The dowels allways will fit perfectly.
@@manny9323 Have you ever had a blade get ruined by a screw or nail before? It's not pleasant, even more so if the bale is expensive/annoying to sharpen or get it sharpened. But ye it's more of a annoyance that builders deal with when they demo and it's kinda in the back of our heads all the time if we ever take apart anything.
@@manny9323 When joining to end grain, a dowel is stronger than a screw. It's also a royal pain to have a screw fail that has been plugged. Plugging involves just as much work as removing the screws, drilling and doweling.
Loved this! From essentially a baseline of zero woodworking knowledge I learned more info I actually understood from this short video than any other woodworking DYI I've ever watched. Definitely liked and subscribed. Thanks for this!
My grandpa who was a master cabinet maker and master carpenter mainly used dado joints, dowel joints, rabbit, and groove on his furniture. He made the furniture for Molly Brown and has multiple pieces in museums. The dove joint was for "show" items are rarely used. I remember as a kid when my mom worked on her journeyman level in cabinet making her making this amazing box with contrasting dove tails, but it was the finishing sanding with corn starch and the amazing finish that matter. I've been doing wood working since I was a little kid. Now as an adult, it's always been the finish and paying attention to details of a flawless look that matter more. A simple dowel joint, makes such a clean look when you do a good finish. Making any furniture look well formed. I can't though reject how nice a dove joint looks. But not going through, filling the grain, making sure the item is smoother than eye or touch can detect, dove vs any other joint won't hold up. I hate when I watch videos of people making something and I see a pocket or gap that could be filled and cleaned up then they just slop resins or such over it and you still see the dip in the wood. Any good work is mainly paying attention to the details. You can use the simplest joint and make something that looks amazing if you pay attention. While making something that is not as quality with not looking at the details.
All true. The advantage of the older joinery techniques is that they function without the adhesive. The pinned and wedged mortice and tenon joints don't use glue. They last more than 100 years when properly executed. A good video my opinion.
@@christiannorf1680 Sure, wedged M&Ts loosen. And they can easily be re-tightened. Pinned? If you have pinned them right in hard wood, they won't loosen.
@@AC-cg4beif they are pinned with steel fasteners like cut nails they do get loose. All those chairs made in the 90s that everyone has/had a set of are falling apart because they use screws or brads to hold them together
@@christiannorf1680 That's ridiculous. Glue is used since the Neolithics. Egyptians used wood glue for building furniture 4000yrs ago. The same kind of glue was still used 100yrs ago and is today. There was never lack of good glue.
@@clauslangenbroek9897 Bronze knifes have been used for centuries, yet still you'll have trouble finding one today. They used what they had at hand. Your statement assumes that all glue produced was of good quality and pretend that micro organisms, moisture and shelf life are no issue for glues based on animal protein. That's as ridiculous as you accuse my statement to be.
Man, thank you so much for this. As a beginner raised by a professional woodworker who grew up with all the beautiful dovetail coffee table books who’s been struggling to figure out what I need to get started not at all helped by the “10 tools EVERY beginner needs” videos where everything in the list is at least $500 i really appreciate this simple no nonsense type video. Just simple here are the joints, here are what they’re good for and why they’re good, here’s a simple way to do it. Thanks so much
I love the fact that you don’t just batch out videos showing the same old crap that some do but that rather your videos are obviously well thought out (and no doubt researched) and actually give me information that is useful to me in a no bullshit kinda funny way. I look forward to the next one!
Not related to anything but I appreciated that he showed 4 different power tool brands within 20 seconds, DeWalt, Festool, Ryobi, & Bosch. Got a subscribe for that.
Dovetails are surprisingly easier to make than I thought using basic hand tools. They shouldn’t intimidate anyone who wants to develop their skills. I spent some time watching Paul Sellers’ videos and a few others, then spent a few hours turning a few pieces of long scrap into a bunch of short dovetail joints. By the fifth one it was looking pretty good! No need for a jig or screaming router. But all of this for most of us is the fun of making and learning. This video was very informative, thank you!
Don’t forget about that end joint called the dominotail - the 90 degree is unnecessarily trimmed into a sort of hexagon that beautifully showcases and properly honors a love for fine Festool joinery.
My home and garage aren't allowing for me to continue my woodworking journey but watching this every now and then keeps me excited. A comforting video for a lapsed woodworker.
OMFG you just explained to me why my grandmother's old picture frames had coins in their corners on the backside! I'd always just assumed it was some kind fancy decoration (that faced the wall?) or weird trend they did a hundred years ago. Thank you!
@@rclewis01 I think a lot of that is up to the tester and variables in the test. In my opinion a box/dovetail joint would be much stronger than a rabbet joint just because of more surface area to apply glue. Would also depend on the length of the two things we are joining. Like for a frame I think a rabbet is probably the easiest and going to provide plenty of strength. If we are making a drawer I think a box joint would be better.
I have FINALLY mastered the art of making a bunch of mistakes!! I have reached the pinnacle of my woodworking skills!! My wife gets after me because I am never satisfied with anything I build. I guess that can be a good thing, but typically it's NOT a good thing for a person like me who is a perfectionist because it means I spend more time discouraged with what I do than I do being happy with what I do, and that extends to every part of life. In any event, I am very ENcouraged by your video about these different joints. I'm going to try some on my next project. I do cut myself some slack because I've only been doing woodworking for maybe a year, but I am simply amazed at the skills some people have. It's just off the charts amazing what people can do with wood. Thanks for helping me on my own journey to improve and make things I might even be able to sell. That is, after all, my ultimate goal!
My best ever score, during my school days in any subject, was 19/20 for my blind dovetails. Forget the science or option, my pride for this won't change! 😊
this is probably my first time watching an in-depth video about woodworking and i don't understand 90% of the terminologies mentioned, i watched it till the end, great video👌🏼
Thank you for an excellent teaching video. In Australia, where I have been teaching high school Industrial Arts (your comparison would be wood shop, metal shop, etc…) I taught Year 10 woodwork students how to hand cut Dovetail joints that they must include at least once in a project. Not to have them become master craftsmen, but to show them what is possible. Most never want to do them again, but some loved the challenge and the ensuing sense of accomplishment. If a 16 yr old kid can do it many of your viewers would be able to. May be another video idea for those that wish to try. FYI, dado and rabbit joints don’t exist outside the USA that I know of. As you said a dado is a trench so everyone else calls it a …… trench! Which is across the grain, rebate on an edge and a groove along the grain. One point you could emphasise is extra support from shoulders - not just glue area in dovetails, M&T, even housing joints. It’s not just greater glue area. Finally, are you likely to consider a marking knife? They go a long way to showing off perfect joinery. Once more thanks for the great teaching video. Even after 40 years in the classroom/workshop, I’m still learning. Lloyd
Excellent and comprehensive. I wish videos like yours were available when I was being taught Furniture Making. I was taught with traditional jointing that was great for learning the disciplines of hand work but it almost completely ignored - and sometimes even outright dismissed - realistic 'modern' techniques to move forward. Consequently I was outpriced by people using techniques such as this video recommends. I always felt that formal courses should be a mix of - up to - 50% traditional jointing to pick up the hand skills and - at least - 50% modern jointing techniques. As a retired furniture maker I thoroughly recommend these videos.
Great video, even for old timers like me who love all things wood and lumber. My exper. mostly large-scale const. Now retired, my interest is fine woodworking, from small decorative boxes, to chests of drawers, dressers, coffee tables, china cabinets and dining tables. Thank you again! Please keep up your great work!
I find it interesting how he approached a topic that he knew would be controversial, gave his observations on woodworking , and got a Bunch of differing opinions, and probably got boosted rankings on his video because of it. Smart. 👍👍
I find that a major consideration when choosing what type of joint to use is what is easiest to glue, clamp and assemble. Especially when you have many pieces that need to be glued at the same time. Some types of joints will by themselves help to align and pull the pieces together. Also, the glue, screw, unscrew then plug method can work well for pieces that are difficult to clamp.
Best video on this topic, ever! What a great overview of so many techniques, PLUS the details needed to actually use them. I'm a 75 year old woodworker, in a family of craftsmen and women, yet learned so much from this!
End grain to end grain - scarf joint. We use them in the theatre industry as a lot of what we make is longer than the length of the timber. Also used in beams in house-building and in ye olde ship-building.
I really appreciate your more in-depth but easy to understand description of adhesives and lignins and cellulose. My pops was a Forestry/Wood Scientist professor and he wrote a bunch of super technical papers on adhesives. Starting in the late 70s he made me proofread these technical papers for him which likely had the opposite effect he intended for me, as I went in a totally different direction. Now at almost 60 I’m finding myself back at the beginning of a hobby/journey into woodworking. Dang, I wish pops had shown me some straws back then, a bunch of things just fell into place. Cheers to you and thanks for one of the best vids I’ve seen on UA-cam.
One point to keep in mind when using a table saw to cut joints such as dados and lap joints is that most blades have teeth that leave a U or V shape perpendicular to the direction of the cut. To prevent this use a blade with a flat top grind (FTG) tooth profile.
I've noticed this when I've cut dados, it leaves material I had to chisel out. I think dado stacks solve for it, but a pain to set up. Where do you get FTG blades? I don't think I've seen them in HD or Lowe's since they seem more specific to woodworking, but maybe I missed them.
@@MorrMedia1 Probably won't find them in big box stores but look for low tooth count "ripping" blades. That's not a guarantee but FTG are usually (always?) rip blades.
Combination blades almost always have Rakers every 4-6 ATB/HI-ATB (Alternate Tooth Bevel/High Alternate Tooth Bevel) Unfortunately many rip blades are made as thin kerf with ATB or HI-ATB due to portable saws and battery tools.
I used to work in a cabinet shop and ran the raised panel door department and did all the molding and set all the really expensive machines up and kept them calibrated. Double cutting miter saws dowel boring machine door frame press huge shapers pin router rip saws chop saws you name it we had it. Lifes great when you have good machines.
Joinery used to mean something. Because woodworkers didn't have modern fasteners or adhesives, putting something together out of wood meant it had to be joined. Wall studs in houses once upon a time used a mortise and tenon to join them to the plates. Tongue and groove floors were pegged to the floor joists. Houses were joined together. So were cabinets. That's why the dovetail joint was a mark of craftsmanship and longevity on a drawer. Now with modern fasteners and adhesives and power tools, I can slap any old thing together and call it good. It isn't woodworking any more, it's fabrication with wood. I did some dove tailed drawers once just to do it. It was a lot of effort. Rabbet joints, glue and a few well placed brads suffice now because nobody is paying me extra to make this stuff look nifty.
I'm in love with woodworking. So much space for imagination it has that it blows my mind. It's like building with lego where you create your own details!
Thank you for this video. Your clarity and humility make woodworking feel possible. I am right at the beginning of my journey, but even executing the simplest construction makes me feel good in a way that nothing else does! Yours, a beginner.
Nice video. Retired sort of woodworker here. I started off as a woodworker trying to make a living at it. Ended up a manufacturer of commercial interiors. Went through about every method there is. Each has their advantages. Just be careful of controlling moisture. In solid lumber construction variations in moisture content over the life of the product can be a killer. Half laps I'm looking at you! For production work MDF & particle board were the preferred materials. The top manufactures controlled size and moisture content very well. There are huge variations in the quality available and unfortunately, for the small guy, buying from the big box stores or the like doesn't get you top of the line products. In my production plant doweling was the preferred method because it could be: accurate, strong and fast. The drawback was to get be those 3 cost a lot in equipment. If anyone watching this video has hopes of competing in the business end... consider my recommendation, taken with a hand full of salt. Keep it fun and don't try to go into the cut throat business side of wood product making. One last thing, consider going to IWF in Atlanta August 6-9, 2024. Almost everything related to woodworking. Something for every size from the guys doing it for fun to massive machines.
Dovetails are surprisingly easier to make than I thought using basic hand tools. They shouldn’t intimidate anyone who wants to develop their skills. I spent some time watching Paul Sellers’ videos and a few others, then spent a few hours turning a few pieces of long scrap into a bunch of short dovetail joints. By the fifth one it was looking pretty good! One advantage of the dovetail is there’s no need for a power tool. But all of this for most of us is the fun of making and learning. This video was very informative, thank you!
Are you kidding? He literally starts out by crapping on all the other people in internet land who have given advice on building furniture then proceeded to tell us why we should ignore all the ancient techniques and just use screws. This was the most preachy and condescending video I have seen.
Thank you for BOTH the “how” and “WHY” of each jointing solution. I’ll begin putting it to good use and enjoy the practical results. Good video. Well done!
Loved your video, very informative however, it was fairly machine-orientated/biased, if your fortunate enough to have a kited-out workshop, great. The lessons and skills that come from cutting joints by hand; dovetails and mortice and tenons are extensive and extremely valuable; utilizing marking gauges, measuring tools, squares, hand saws, chisels and the sharpening of these tools, how to use a grinder, honing stones, gluing up square and out of twist are some of the many skills dovetail joints will give you. Learning with hand tools, and I mean, straiting and thicknessing, too, enables those passionate folk that don't have big machine budgets a way in, and in my humble opinion, the best way to start! The question of strength was apparent few times in your presentation and I agree, there are other important questions that need to come into consideration whilst in the design stage, if we were to preference strength above other considerations we would be sitting on logs or boulders etc; welcome home the Flintstones! Proportions, aesthetics and function are prime questions when designing and will answer the "strength" question when answered. I think your presentation was articulated very well, thank you.
Patrick Sullivan made a video showing that end grain to end grain is stronger than edge grain to edge grain, but the point of the cellulose fibers being stronger than the glue still stands. If you're gluing two pieces of endgrain together, I would definitely still reinforce it. Edge grain to edge grain glue-ups are still pretty strong, stronger than the natural lignin, so I will definitely continue using edge grain to edge grain and edge grain to end grain glue-ups in my work.
Yeah I think the big issue people missed in that video is that the wood failed in the edge to edge. So it’s not an apples to apples that one joint is “stronger” it somewhat confirmed what we already know, glue is stronger than lignin. But people still lost their minds over it
I couldn't care less about everyone arguing over whats stronger, whats going to last longer, etc. Admit it, we all got into woodworking because we wanted to make things that look cool, and thats why we use specific joints.
No, I got into it because the bedframes I was getting for my kids were hot trash. The fences at my first two houses were hot trash. The deck at my second house was hot trash. I needed solid, reliable and quick to make wood projects for eleventy dozen different things and appearance was always secondary if it was considered at all.
If you want a better finish, then use a whole cutter. Don't use a jigsaw to cut it out or for an even nicer finish a butterfly that involves a lot more work though.....
Less than 1 minute in and I got educated on multiple facets of tree cutting! Yet another reason I adore your channel mate! _"If you need anything better than that go build a spaceship"_ ! THAT had me ROLLING!😂
Your wood working how to vids of way better than all the rest out there. Keep a steady hand, pls do not rush it. You looked, investigated, understood, did it better. Now just keep at it. Doing it in your own, natural way. It's the best and will pay off. No pressure is best practice. Always. Long term. No comparison. Ever. Please. Awesome shit man.
4:22 "A butt joint is end-grain connected to face-grain." That's not quite right. A butt joint is any two surfaces against each other without lap (or OVER-lap) or additional fasteners or cuts (&c.). The wood grain is not part of the definition (although in practice, of course, some grain combinations are far more likely in common applications).
Right on. I cut "sloppy" finger joints for tolex covered amplifier cabinets for just that reason. Glue. They're going to be covered. Even "sloppy", they sand out with no gaps. They are crazy strong, and I promise guitar amplifier cabinets get way more abuse than fine furniture. If sloppy finger joints are good enough for guitar cabinets, they're probably fine for your homebrew furniture work (strength wise). Of course, like you say dovetails are pretty. I respect anyone who has the patience and bandwidth and unit-price to cover the work. For the rest of us, finger joints are the way to go.
Are you a teacher by trade?? You're so good at breaking complicated concepts down and making them more understandable. The straw visual was incredible helpful!
I'm just starting out so I mostly settled on dowels and (pocket) screws with butt joints. I know it's not the fancy solution but it's easy to do and really strong. I think that for now I have enough to learn as-is
The problem with 'A is stronger then B' is: stronger at what? The joint tests test one thing. Some joints are better at that one thing than others. But other joints are better at another thing, and that was not tested. So try to be very skeptical in determining the accuracy of any joint test. Look to see if the test evaluates real-world stresses.
Very good point! The joints at the front of a drawer won't have to deal with much bending stress, but the tensile strength will be tested every time the drawer is opened or slammed shut. That makes me think that in this application, dovetails would have a longevity advantage over glue alone.
Another reason an amateur might pick one joint vs another: Fun! Since this a hobby for me, being effective at it is a somewhat surprisingly low priority. I do value quality, looks, and want to be proud of the final product, but sometimes I choose what I think will be an enjoyable challenge, even if it contradicts an objectively wiser option (...up to a point).
Thank you for your video. I really liked how you encourage us to try and not worry about making mistakes. That's the only way we can learn - through our success and mistakes.
As a learned carpenter i tell you that all these handcrafted joints easily look more fancy than ugly screws, hence why everybody still uses them regardless of benefits
Nice information for the new woodworker. Your lack of master shows in your conclusions that are based on some else’s tests and not your own experience over time. It’s true modern glues are stronger than old ones, however a mechanical joint will always be stronger long term than a glued one. I use to believe what you do but age and experience has shown me otherwise. I do wish videos such as this were around when I was starting out decades ago as it would have shortened my learning curve. It’s refreshing to see a younger generation taking up woodworking. Best of luck with the channel!
Just wanted to let you know that thanks to you I finally fucked up my end table - but it's finished! Only I was able to find out where it's fucked up when I asked friends to try and find the defect. I appreciate your videos.
You have been consistently putting out the best woodworking videos on youtube for years now. I watch A LOT of yoube woodworking content. You're on top my guy
Great video dude. I've been woodworking for years and this is a very succinct video that combines a lot of the simpler techniques I use. I do it for fun and hobby, so because they're simple I don't waste a ton of time on fooling around with joinery
I’m almost speechless at how amazing this video is. So comprehensive. Not a wasted word. No skipping over the tricky bits. Every aspect clearly demonstrated. Emphasis on practicality, and, of course, plenty of snipes at the “I’m a fancier woodworker than you” crowd (& UA-cam “actors”). You sir are a master educator and motivational shop teacher. Sincerely, very satisfied subscriber.
Favorite picture frame joint is a miter and half lap combo. No idea whats its called but its the best of both. Mitered front face look but strength and auto squareness of half lap. Pain to do by hand, but satisfying.
I also find it hilarious when people treat the dovetail as a high end skill that is the epitome of joinery. The second you start seeing classical Japanese joinery, it puts dovetails to shame in both workmanship and appearance.
Well, yes and no. The dovetail is a strong and classy joint, and seems to represent a certain amount of experience from the crafter. An expert can bang them out in no time. At the same time, it's mostly the people who don't know much about it who seem to appreciate it the most. Its like being told whats good and then you aspire to that. In modern days it basically means the stuff you hear the most about must be the best. Popularity dictates perceived quality. Dovetails are popular, so they must be good.
@@stefanfyhn4668 I agree wholeheartedly. My statement is based off what I see on videos and especially on comments on YT, reddit, etc. It’s that attitudes people get about it. It’s especially prevalent when people try to insist that it is the strongest, most stable joint. Also, and even though it is a nice looking joint, there are better ones in my opinion.
The skill and accuracy of Japanese woodworking is wonderful to see and hard to beat. One reason is that Japan has no native source of iron so they had to do without iron nails and fixings, and only had animal glues which are not waterproof, so they had to try harder! I personally like dovetails on drawers because they elegantly provide the ideal strength of joint. Every time you open a drawer, you are trying to pull the face off the drawer sides. The wedge form means that the joint tightens when you pull on it. As a retired furniture maker I know that people are impressed by dovetails so I bought myself an expensive jig and two new routers some years ago. With careful use it worked beautifully.
I want to add over to something you already said : wooden stuff are mostly *assemblies* and not single joints. You also build these assemblies for a *purpose*, or said otherwise, whistand certain type of constraints. You don't need each best individual joint, but only a sufficiently good combination of joints to whistand the constraints.
Not only is modern wood glue incredibly strong, but most youtube woodworkers use way too much of it. You just need a tiny bead when tightening, not glue literally dripping out on to your bench.
yeah he is one of them, 12:45 thats already too much. Yes glue can improve a joint but applying so much that it drips everywhere is just wrong. One shouls also mention that most glues are "pressure sensitive adhesives", meaning that that you have to apply pressure with clamps until it's dry. I eiredly get the feeling hes is just plastering it on and leaves it be ...
Great advice and educational information!! One tool I now miss for making joints is my radial arm saw. For years I cut dadoes and lap joints where the joints joined perfectly, due to the fact that on my radial arm saw I could see what I was doing. However, turning the board upside down to make the same joints on a table saw or router table, simply makes all the "precise" cuts "in the blind" so to speak is much more difficult. Maybe it is just prejudice on my part, but for some reason I find those sort of joints much more difficult on a table saw. Thank you for the excellent video.
Dovetails by hand are actually a lot easier to make than you would think. It takes a bit if practice (obviously), but once you can accurately draw a line and saw straight, it's pretty easy.
Lincoln: Shows all the cool joints you can do with glue and stuff Me: only uses screws and nails I love the amount of ways you can joint two boards, and I plan on getting more into glueing, and its great to have a fairly on point guide about all the different jointing methods. The only two main reasons I never liked glueing wood is the dry time and not being able to take it apart simply by reversing the screw. I feel like I just have gotten used to hiding all the screws in places no one can easily see. But since some of my projects will deal with some pretty hefty loads, its probably a good idea I add in glue to the mixture too.
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Is there a way to get the black and gold? I only ever see them in a blue and satin. Which is fine, but black and gold….
I second @@Existential_brian , where did the black and gold starred come from?
I like your videos, thanks
Dide
Don't really appreciate the clickbait title line for this video. You spend the entire video explaining the value of basic joints, not critiquing them.
I'm old now, but my grandfather in the 1930's used to make lovely furniture using hidden dovetail joints (no end-grain visible), held together with bone glue.
The furniture looks immaculate to this day, with no play in any of the joints, and it will almost certainly outlive me, and probably my son too.
Modern glues are certainly more convenient, however, you can't dismantle a PVA glued joint without destroying them, whereas bone glued joints can be re-melted with some heat for disassembly and transport.
(NB: I agree entirely with the video that beginners should not be starting off trying to use fancy cabinet making techniques like hidden dovetail joints)
I didn't know what hidden dovetails were, but google... what was kind enough to point me in the direction so i couls inform myself. I just wanted to say thank you for making this comment. I too had a grandfather who was a fantastic carpenter So I can relate to that.. I didn't know how he did a lot of what he did back then, but I do now and Can't help but appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your Grandpa's talent. Because now I know what hidden dovetails are And how to go about making them.. Somewhat lol
@rogerbussiii You are most welcome. I hope you get to make some lovely things that become heirlooms some day.
That straw anology for how wood grain direction works was phenomenal. I've seen so many woodworking youtubers try to explain grain and where to joint or glue and it all sounds so overcomplicated.
But now, I can understand exactly where to glue and when to use other fastener support.
Eighth grade earth science lesson reinforced and expanded on in tenth grade biology.
As a trained woodworker (and a user of rebates here in UK) I was told to be very careful about screwing into end grain. The straw analogy makes it clear that the screw is going into a bunch of tubes, so will not be very secure.
It's also really useful to think about how those "straws" are arranged in a circle. It's circular because that's how the tree trunk grows -- adding additional circular layers of fibers over time. That's what growth rings in a tree trunk are.
There's all sorts of information and terminology about boards that result from this, which can be confusing to understand, but if you start from understanding the circle, all the rest of that fits into that understanding.
The second piece of the puzzle is, when people talk about "wood movement", understand that it's mostly about the circumference of that circle, because that measurement is the one that increases/decreases the most, over time.
Wood movement is all about how wood expands and contracts over the course of the year as the humidity changes and the wood fibers absorb and release water vapor. Specifically, the *fibers* expand and contract. That fact, combined with the circular arrangement of the fibers, dictates how any board cut from a tree trunk expands and contracts. All of the special terms for this stuff are just labels for different aspects of that.
Again, back to the tree trunk: the entire cylindrical bundle expands and contracts.
If you think about simple geometry and measurements of a circle, you have radius and you have circumference.
You can look at that geometry and it's obvious that circumference is the largest measurement. That also means that when the cylinder expands and contracts, the most expansion and contraction is going to be in the circumference.
That means you can look at any two boards, look at the end grain to see how each was cut out of a cylindrical tree trunk, and figure out how they are going to expand and contract differently.
Two common terms that people use are "radial", which obviously comes from radius, and "tangential", which is a term woodworkers borrowed from geometry and it has a slightly mutated meaning in woodworking. The short version of the geometry meaning is that a tangent line is a straight line that just barely grazes a circle. In woodworking, when people say tangential, they really mean "tangential plane", meaning a cut line that's at right angles to the radial line of the tree trunk. So they may describe a board as "tangentially sawn", meaning it's cut at right angles to the radial line. Or they may describe a board as "radially sawn", meaning it's cut parallel to the radial line.
Everything else is just somewhere in between these two extremes in terms of the angles, and how those angles result in some slice of the circular arrangement of fibers, and how that slice/arrangement changes how the board "moves".
The second largest factor is, of course, how curved the growth rings in that board are, which is about the board's original position in the tree trunk, i.e. distance between the board and the center point of the tree trunk.
Also note, people are sloppy with terminology, for example you may hear people call a radially cut board "quarter sawn" but the two are not the same identical thing... but close enough that it's not necessarily a big deal most of the time.
This is easier to explain visually than with words, so here's a couple web sites with good drawings:
www.permachink.com/resources/applicator-program/wood-movement-what-you-should-know-before-you-apply
www.jefflefkowitzchairmaker.com/chairmakers-journal/grain-orientation-and-wood-movement-part-1
And this guy has a good, short video about it:
facebook.com/reel/2034251250380526
One difference between a surface level knowledge and actual expertise, is the ability to explain it in simple terms.
I agree with your reasoning, but in the world of antiques and furniture restoration, you can't deny that a dovetail is a beautiful piece of wood engineering 😊.
I think he agreed dovetails are really nice, but said you shouldn't focus on them as a beginner. For me I love the look of nice hand cut dovetails so I DID start with that. It is very frustrating at first but when you get it. It feels like I can cut any joint by hand now. On the other side I could've gotten to frustrated and just quit altogether.
As he said other joints are used more frequently or are just better to first do. Then go onto dovetails.
Learning all available joints and eventually using them in projects. Gaining confidence and skill. Using dovetails when appropriate. Projects that you want to build to look a certain way or have specific requirements.
The point being, when dovetails are the preferred option, do not be afraid of cutting them.
i comment above that I use them also, but pretty much only hand cut now. MOST of the time I use dowels. Yes, hand cut dovetails are a beautiful sign of craftsmanship. Back 100 years ago, folks could cut the quickly. Rob Crossman, can cut them quickly and others too, but most of us can't. I've cut a fair amount but I'm not anywhere near as good as Rob. So what. I still can make some beautiful pieces. Making art is wonderful for the soul.
If I've learned anything, it's all about the specific application. Doesn't matter what joint it is.
I hate them, they look terrible to me and far too noticeable. They've also became increasingly more popular and i see them too much
“Get out there and make a bunch of mistakes” great advice! I’m really good at making long boards short. Not so good at making short boards long.
just a little bit of practice, and you can do it. !!!
😂👍😊
Measure once, cut until you have to go back to the store, lol.
You need one of those lumber stretchers out of the back of the truck...
The trick is to change the purpose at end from cabinet making to chopping firewood ;-)
Having been trained as a cabinetmaker and educated as an industrial arts teacher with over 40 years in the field, I would have to disagree with some of your advice. Mechanical fasteners have their place in woodworking, primarily attaching hardware and holding things together while glue dries - not in face frames doors and drawers. In these situations, particularly if objects move (i.e. doors and drawers) mechanical fasteners eventually work loose. Even on face frames, I have gone back on jobs done by others where cabinet face frames have failed because the fasteners in the pocket joints have worked loose AND the glue has failed with the butt to edge joint.
I've been an amateur woodworker all my life and I completely agree with you. There can be a fine line between nice joinery and crappy carpentry but what's shown here is on the side of crappy carpentry. Dovetails and mortise and tenon joints have been around for millennia for a reason. They work! You're better off if you learn how to do them and if you prefer the machine approach, acquire the equipment you need. For me, I'll stick with my assortment of antique bench planes and chisels to get the job done, but each to his own.
Agreed...I cringed when the screw went into end grain. That's fine for those super coarse thread IKEA fasteners going into particle board but...yikes.
We have the snobby snobs on this thread 😮
Your point points out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Each method has its strong points and it's weak points.
@@SharkBite-nm4yo We have the "we've reinvented the wheel" types on your side of the thread. You know, the type that shows up with "we've made a new bycicle wheel" - and they show a solid bicycle wheel with springs or rubber with holes... and then you go back in time, pick up a magazine from the 1910's and ... see basically the exact same thing. And then you wonder, huh... why didn't it stick... then you realize, oh... maybe it didn't stick because it's a convoluted idea that's borne of snobish inividuals who think they're better than the accepted and long tested method.
From an old boat carpenter's point of view you did a good job at explaining the basics.
When structure is the most important thing we use glued and screwed corner posts.
Gluing and screwing compliment each other. Screws have clamping power, but shear can make them wobble loose. Glue doesn't shear easily but have a limit in tension. Together they form a very good joint. BTW, "water resistant" glues shouldn't be used on a boat, Epoxies and Resorcinol are the only acceptable choices as far as I know.
Corner posts give far greater glue area and screws don't have to be held by end grain. Other joints can be used in places not subject to joint movement. Mitres have a problem in a marine environment where changes in moisture make the outside of the joint open up, leaving a birdsmouth.
Wasn't Jesus a carpenter?
@@GB-ez6gehe worked with his hands. That he was a carpenter isn’t known for certain. Could have been a stone mason.
Good explanation of a composite joint
finally a youtuber that doesn't act like a know it all and can admit that they make mistakes just like the rest of us. love the channel man! keep it up
This taught me the all the weird dowels and grooves in Ikea furniture actually make a lot of sense, and why it survived multiple moves even though it's just 'cheap' materials
Quit smoking and you'll never need a joint again.
Back to sniffing glue then!
You really need to insert a ‼️Dad Joke‼️ warning label before you put out stuff like this.
"I don't need it... I definitely don't need it" 🧽
What about a joint of meat?
@@Boethius4748 Thank you! I'll keep that in mind when practising ‼️Dado Jokes‼️
I really appreciate your attitude of "Is it perfect? No. Is it good enough to work until your tools and/or skills improve? Yes."
@@digrat thank you! That perfectly sums it up
I have a solid dresser with the "old style" joints. I've owned it for about 40 years. I inherited it from my grandmother. It was given to her when her father refinished his home ~1950. A conservative estimate on how long he'd had it is 10 years (more likely 20+). So, this dresser is ~85 years old and the drawers work flawlessly - the joints never loosen, the drawers always stay on track no matter how tightly stuffed with clothes. I've never known anything, used equivalently, with wood screws to last anywhere near that long. These joints last longer than a Bob Marley spliff!
Oh I should mention four centuries old organd xD
@@vedqiibyol What is an "organd xD"?
My mistake, I mean an organ.
Pipe organs
The quality of the wood might have been better (loggin in the cold season).
@@franziskaniabsolutely. Not that I want us to keep cutting down old growth oak forests, but the difference between that and high moisture pine/fir from the big box store (or worse yet particle board that won't even hold screw) is night and day. I use old wood when I can.
Your videos have made me feel empowered and brave enough to just start making stuff the way im able to make it, not the way people on the internet tell me it has to be. My work isnt amazing, but im actually making things with my hands, and even with its flaws and the mistakes im making, im pretty proud of it, and having fun. I appreciate you.
And I appreciate you more than you know!
Heh, after watching one of these videos I just go back to the shed and screw everything together like I'm building a house. Good enough for me and if my wife doesn't like it she can try doing better herself. 😂
One of my favorite channels is Uri Tuchman. He does kind of rough work and leaves his mistakes in the video, but it's always really interesting & creative.
Every time I watch a video of his I think I could/should make something cool.
www.youtube.com/@urituchmanpigeon
Instead of plugged hidden screws I prefer visible dowels. Glue, screw temporary for clamping, unscrew, drill dowel holes on screw holes, dowel.
As a result there is no steel hidden inside the wood. No fancy tool is needed. The dowels allways will fit perfectly.
Second. This technique makes doweling tons easier (and fun) to work with.
Who the hell cares if there is steel hidden inside your wood? You’re not x-raying your furniture, no one will ever see it
@@manny9323 Have you ever had a blade get ruined by a screw or nail before? It's not pleasant, even more so if the bale is expensive/annoying to sharpen or get it sharpened.
But ye it's more of a annoyance that builders deal with when they demo and it's kinda in the back of our heads all the time if we ever take apart anything.
What is your favorite dowel jig?
@@manny9323 When joining to end grain, a dowel is stronger than a screw. It's also a royal pain to have a screw fail that has been plugged. Plugging involves just as much work as removing the screws, drilling and doweling.
Loved this! From essentially a baseline of zero woodworking knowledge I learned more info I actually understood from this short video than any other woodworking DYI I've ever watched. Definitely liked and subscribed. Thanks for this!
My grandpa who was a master cabinet maker and master carpenter mainly used dado joints, dowel joints, rabbit, and groove on his furniture. He made the furniture for Molly Brown and has multiple pieces in museums. The dove joint was for "show" items are rarely used. I remember as a kid when my mom worked on her journeyman level in cabinet making her making this amazing box with contrasting dove tails, but it was the finishing sanding with corn starch and the amazing finish that matter. I've been doing wood working since I was a little kid. Now as an adult, it's always been the finish and paying attention to details of a flawless look that matter more. A simple dowel joint, makes such a clean look when you do a good finish. Making any furniture look well formed. I can't though reject how nice a dove joint looks. But not going through, filling the grain, making sure the item is smoother than eye or touch can detect, dove vs any other joint won't hold up. I hate when I watch videos of people making something and I see a pocket or gap that could be filled and cleaned up then they just slop resins or such over it and you still see the dip in the wood. Any good work is mainly paying attention to the details. You can use the simplest joint and make something that looks amazing if you pay attention. While making something that is not as quality with not looking at the details.
All true. The advantage of the older joinery techniques is that they function without the adhesive. The pinned and wedged mortice and tenon joints don't use glue. They last more than 100 years when properly executed. A good video my opinion.
Because they had to due to lack of good glue. They may not fall apart, but they will loosen.
@@christiannorf1680 Sure, wedged M&Ts loosen. And they can easily be re-tightened.
Pinned? If you have pinned them right in hard wood, they won't loosen.
@@AC-cg4beif they are pinned with steel fasteners like cut nails they do get loose. All those chairs made in the 90s that everyone has/had a set of are falling apart because they use screws or brads to hold them together
@@christiannorf1680 That's ridiculous. Glue is used since the Neolithics. Egyptians used wood glue for building furniture 4000yrs ago. The same kind of glue was still used 100yrs ago and is today. There was never lack of good glue.
@@clauslangenbroek9897 Bronze knifes have been used for centuries, yet still you'll have trouble finding one today.
They used what they had at hand. Your statement assumes that all glue produced was of good quality and pretend that micro organisms, moisture and shelf life are no issue for glues based on animal protein.
That's as ridiculous as you accuse my statement to be.
Man, thank you so much for this. As a beginner raised by a professional woodworker who grew up with all the beautiful dovetail coffee table books who’s been struggling to figure out what I need to get started not at all helped by the “10 tools EVERY beginner needs” videos where everything in the list is at least $500 i really appreciate this simple no nonsense type video. Just simple here are the joints, here are what they’re good for and why they’re good, here’s a simple way to do it. Thanks so much
Glad it was helpful!
I love the fact that you don’t just batch out videos showing the same old crap that some do but that rather your videos are obviously well thought out (and no doubt researched) and actually give me information that is useful to me in a no bullshit kinda funny way. I look forward to the next one!
Just reiterating this point. I’d rather wait a few weeks for a great video than have constant low quality content.
Thanks Shaun
Real men just nail it together with zero planning
Sorry, gave up nails when I bought my first battery screw gun, so many years ago !
@@MrStevos Still haven't bought battery anything.. all electric or hand.
Then the wood splits.
@@Topdoggie7 then nail it back together numb nuts
The land of stupid always disappoints.
I like your presentation style - 99% information 1% filler - thank you.
One of the most informative videos, straightforward about woodworking on youtube
Not related to anything but I appreciated that he showed 4 different power tool brands within 20 seconds, DeWalt, Festool, Ryobi, & Bosch. Got a subscribe for that.
Why?
@@yura979 show's that he's not loyal to any specific brand, i suppose. how that's worthy of a sub is beyond me
DeFaulty is an obvious one to roast, but he missed Milwonky.
Dovetails are surprisingly easier to make than I thought using basic hand tools. They shouldn’t intimidate anyone who wants to develop their skills. I spent some time watching Paul Sellers’ videos and a few others, then spent a few hours turning a few pieces of long scrap into a bunch of short dovetail joints. By the fifth one it was looking pretty good! No need for a jig or screaming router.
But all of this for most of us is the fun of making and learning. This video was very informative, thank you!
Thanks
Don’t forget about that end joint called the dominotail - the 90 degree is unnecessarily trimmed into a sort of hexagon that beautifully showcases and properly honors a love for fine Festool joinery.
LOL! 🤣
Hahahah 😂
LMAO - you win the comment section IMO!
Hahaha 😅
My home and garage aren't allowing for me to continue my woodworking journey but watching this every now and then keeps me excited. A comforting video for a lapsed woodworker.
OMFG you just explained to me why my grandmother's old picture frames had coins in their corners on the backside!
I'd always just assumed it was some kind fancy decoration (that faced the wall?) or weird trend they did a hundred years ago.
Thank you!
No problem!
Probably now the most valuable part of the picture!
I don't get this fear of dovetails thing. Once you've cut a few they are pretty easy, look great and are satisfying to do. Go on, give it a go!
Also they are the strongest of the bunch. They just have more surface area for glue which is stronger than the wood.
@@Nilboggen That seems right, but testing showed the Rabbet was actually stronger.
@@rclewis01 I think a lot of that is up to the tester and variables in the test. In my opinion a box/dovetail joint would be much stronger than a rabbet joint just because of more surface area to apply glue. Would also depend on the length of the two things we are joining. Like for a frame I think a rabbet is probably the easiest and going to provide plenty of strength. If we are making a drawer I think a box joint would be better.
My goal is to trick people into thinking I'm good at wood working. That's why your videos are the best out there!
Wait, was that an insult or a compliment?
I have FINALLY mastered the art of making a bunch of mistakes!! I have reached the pinnacle of my woodworking skills!! My wife gets after me because I am never satisfied with anything I build. I guess that can be a good thing, but typically it's NOT a good thing for a person like me who is a perfectionist because it means I spend more time discouraged with what I do than I do being happy with what I do, and that extends to every part of life. In any event, I am very ENcouraged by your video about these different joints. I'm going to try some on my next project.
I do cut myself some slack because I've only been doing woodworking for maybe a year, but I am simply amazed at the skills some people have. It's just off the charts amazing what people can do with wood. Thanks for helping me on my own journey to improve and make things I might even be able to sell. That is, after all, my ultimate goal!
My best ever score, during my school days in any subject, was 19/20 for my blind dovetails. Forget the science or option, my pride for this won't change! 😊
this is probably my first time watching an in-depth video about woodworking and i don't understand 90% of the terminologies mentioned, i watched it till the end, great video👌🏼
Thank you for an excellent teaching video. In Australia, where I have been teaching high school Industrial Arts (your comparison would be wood shop, metal shop, etc…) I taught Year 10 woodwork students how to hand cut Dovetail joints that they must include at least once in a project. Not to have them become master craftsmen, but to show them what is possible. Most never want to do them again, but some loved the challenge and the ensuing sense of accomplishment. If a 16 yr old kid can do it many of your viewers would be able to. May be another video idea for those that wish to try. FYI, dado and rabbit joints don’t exist outside the USA that I know of. As you said a dado is a trench so everyone else calls it a …… trench! Which is across the grain, rebate on an edge and a groove along the grain. One point you could emphasise is extra support from shoulders - not just glue area in dovetails, M&T, even housing joints. It’s not just greater glue area. Finally, are you likely to consider a marking knife? They go a long way to showing off perfect joinery. Once more thanks for the great teaching video. Even after 40 years in the classroom/workshop, I’m still learning. Lloyd
Excellent and comprehensive. I wish videos like yours were available when I was being taught Furniture Making. I was taught with traditional jointing that was great for learning the disciplines of hand work but it almost completely ignored - and sometimes even outright dismissed - realistic 'modern' techniques to move forward. Consequently I was outpriced by people using techniques such as this video recommends. I always felt that formal courses should be a mix of - up to - 50% traditional jointing to pick up the hand skills and - at least - 50% modern jointing techniques. As a retired furniture maker I thoroughly recommend these videos.
Great video, even for old timers like me who love all things wood and lumber. My exper. mostly large-scale const. Now retired, my interest is fine woodworking, from small decorative boxes, to chests of drawers, dressers, coffee tables, china cabinets and dining tables. Thank you again! Please keep up your great work!
I find it interesting how he approached a topic that he knew would be controversial, gave his observations on woodworking , and got a Bunch of differing opinions, and probably got boosted rankings on his video because of it. Smart. 👍👍
I find that a major consideration when choosing what type of joint to use is what is easiest to glue, clamp and assemble. Especially when you have many pieces that need to be glued at the same time. Some types of joints will by themselves help to align and pull the pieces together. Also, the glue, screw, unscrew then plug method can work well for pieces that are difficult to clamp.
Best video on this topic, ever! What a great overview of so many techniques, PLUS the details needed to actually use them. I'm a 75 year old woodworker, in a family of craftsmen and women, yet learned so much from this!
End grain to end grain - scarf joint. We use them in the theatre industry as a lot of what we make is longer than the length of the timber. Also used in beams in house-building and in ye olde ship-building.
I really appreciate your more in-depth but easy to understand description of adhesives and lignins and cellulose. My pops was a Forestry/Wood Scientist professor and he wrote a bunch of super technical papers on adhesives. Starting in the late 70s he made me proofread these technical papers for him which likely had the opposite effect he intended for me, as I went in a totally different direction. Now at almost 60 I’m finding myself back at the beginning of a hobby/journey into woodworking. Dang, I wish pops had shown me some straws back then, a bunch of things just fell into place. Cheers to you and thanks for one of the best vids I’ve seen on UA-cam.
One point to keep in mind when using a table saw to cut joints such as dados and lap joints is that most blades have teeth that leave a U or V shape perpendicular to the direction of the cut. To prevent this use a blade with a flat top grind (FTG) tooth profile.
I've noticed this when I've cut dados, it leaves material I had to chisel out. I think dado stacks solve for it, but a pain to set up. Where do you get FTG blades? I don't think I've seen them in HD or Lowe's since they seem more specific to woodworking, but maybe I missed them.
@@MorrMedia1 Probably won't find them in big box stores but look for low tooth count "ripping" blades. That's not a guarantee but FTG are usually (always?) rip blades.
Combination blades almost always have Rakers every 4-6 ATB/HI-ATB (Alternate Tooth Bevel/High Alternate Tooth Bevel) Unfortunately many rip blades are made as thin kerf with ATB or HI-ATB due to portable saws and battery tools.
Use conventional cross cut blade and ask your sharpening guy to sharpen it flat instead of conventional 15 degree alternating angle @@MorrMedia1
Who makes that type of blade?
I used to work in a cabinet shop and ran the raised panel door department and did all the molding and set all the really expensive machines up and kept them calibrated.
Double cutting miter saws dowel boring machine door frame press huge shapers pin router rip saws chop saws you name it we had it.
Lifes great when you have good machines.
Joinery used to mean something. Because woodworkers didn't have modern fasteners or adhesives, putting something together out of wood meant it had to be joined. Wall studs in houses once upon a time used a mortise and tenon to join them to the plates. Tongue and groove floors were pegged to the floor joists. Houses were joined together. So were cabinets. That's why the dovetail joint was a mark of craftsmanship and longevity on a drawer. Now with modern fasteners and adhesives and power tools, I can slap any old thing together and call it good. It isn't woodworking any more, it's fabrication with wood. I did some dove tailed drawers once just to do it. It was a lot of effort. Rabbet joints, glue and a few well placed brads suffice now because nobody is paying me extra to make this stuff look nifty.
I'm in love with woodworking. So much space for imagination it has that it blows my mind. It's like building with lego where you create your own details!
Thank you for this video. Your clarity and humility make woodworking feel possible. I am right at the beginning of my journey, but even executing the simplest construction makes me feel good in a way that nothing else does!
Yours, a beginner.
Nice video. Retired sort of woodworker here. I started off as a woodworker trying to make a living at it. Ended up a manufacturer of commercial interiors. Went through about every method there is. Each has their advantages. Just be careful of controlling moisture. In solid lumber construction variations in moisture content over the life of the product can be a killer. Half laps I'm looking at you! For production work MDF & particle board were the preferred materials. The top manufactures controlled size and moisture content very well. There are huge variations in the quality available and unfortunately, for the small guy, buying from the big box stores or the like doesn't get you top of the line products.
In my production plant doweling was the preferred method because it could be: accurate, strong and fast. The drawback was to get be those 3 cost a lot in equipment. If anyone watching this video has hopes of competing in the business end... consider my recommendation, taken with a hand full of salt. Keep it fun and don't try to go into the cut throat business side of wood product making.
One last thing, consider going to IWF in Atlanta August 6-9, 2024. Almost everything related to woodworking. Something for every size from the guys doing it for fun to massive machines.
12:50 and the basic joints gets you finishing projects - the ultimate confidence booster.
100% valid statement
As someone with pretty basic skills who wants to get better, this is one of the most truly helpful woodworking videos I've seen. Thanks a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
Lincoln you've done it again. Explain something in such a way that I finally understand it.
My man
Love dowels!!! I’ve doweled my entire workbench , not one piece of metal in it. Great video!!!
Dovetails are surprisingly easier to make than I thought using basic hand tools. They shouldn’t intimidate anyone who wants to develop their skills. I spent some time watching Paul Sellers’ videos and a few others, then spent a few hours turning a few pieces of long scrap into a bunch of short dovetail joints. By the fifth one it was looking pretty good!
One advantage of the dovetail is there’s no need for a power tool.
But all of this for most of us is the fun of making and learning. This video was very informative, thank you!
I'm new to woodworking. I appreciate this knowledge.
Very informative without being preachy or condescending. Teaching is a calling. ❤
Are you kidding? He literally starts out by crapping on all the other people in internet land who have given advice on building furniture then proceeded to tell us why we should ignore all the ancient techniques and just use screws. This was the most preachy and condescending video I have seen.
the old saying- those who can do... those who can't teach...
A calling thats not his, apparently. This video runs over basic teaching skills.
@@Myke_Lemons I think you're just a sensitive little snowflake.
Were you paying attention?
Thank you for BOTH the “how” and “WHY” of each jointing solution. I’ll begin putting it to good use and enjoy the practical results.
Good video. Well done!
I got kicked out of the woodshop in school for breaking a broom over someone's head so I needed the help.
Loved your video, very informative however, it was fairly machine-orientated/biased, if your fortunate enough to have a kited-out workshop, great. The lessons and skills that come from cutting joints by hand; dovetails and mortice and tenons are extensive and extremely valuable; utilizing marking gauges, measuring tools, squares, hand saws, chisels and the sharpening of these tools, how to use a grinder, honing stones, gluing up square and out of twist are some of the many skills dovetail joints will give you. Learning with hand tools, and I mean, straiting and thicknessing, too, enables those passionate folk that don't have big machine budgets a way in, and in my humble opinion, the best way to start! The question of strength was apparent few times in your presentation and I agree, there are other important questions that need to come into consideration whilst in the design stage, if we were to preference strength above other considerations we would be sitting on logs or boulders etc; welcome home the Flintstones! Proportions, aesthetics and function are prime questions when designing and will answer the "strength" question when answered. I think your presentation was articulated very well, thank you.
DUDE! YOU are an incredible communicator!!! You make woodworking approachable!!!!!!
Thanks
Pretty cool to see this from a perspective of someone who spent his entire time until know learning and crafting with metal!
Patrick Sullivan made a video showing that end grain to end grain is stronger than edge grain to edge grain, but the point of the cellulose fibers being stronger than the glue still stands. If you're gluing two pieces of endgrain together, I would definitely still reinforce it. Edge grain to edge grain glue-ups are still pretty strong, stronger than the natural lignin, so I will definitely continue using edge grain to edge grain and edge grain to end grain glue-ups in my work.
Yeah I think the big issue people missed in that video is that the wood failed in the edge to edge. So it’s not an apples to apples that one joint is “stronger” it somewhat confirmed what we already know, glue is stronger than lignin. But people still lost their minds over it
Very information dense, seen several videos on joints that for some reason never addressed wood grain. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks.
I couldn't care less about everyone arguing over whats stronger, whats going to last longer, etc. Admit it, we all got into woodworking because we wanted to make things that look cool, and thats why we use specific joints.
Some of us got into woodworking to make our space more functional, and learning this stuff is incredibly helpful.
Whats a rabbit
@@kinbolluck476🐇
@@kinbolluck476 a small mammal😉
No, I got into it because the bedframes I was getting for my kids were hot trash. The fences at my first two houses were hot trash. The deck at my second house was hot trash. I needed solid, reliable and quick to make wood projects for eleventy dozen different things and appearance was always secondary if it was considered at all.
Thanks for the tip about reinforcing picture frames simply with a circle. I had not seen that one before.
I used the circle of plywood trick today on a project after seeing this. Thank you!
If you want a better finish, then use a whole cutter. Don't use a jigsaw to cut it out or for an even nicer finish a butterfly that involves a lot more work though.....
Glad I could help!
Less than 1 minute in and I got educated on multiple facets of tree cutting!
Yet another reason I adore your channel mate!
_"If you need anything better than that go build a spaceship"_ ! THAT had me ROLLING!😂
Your transition from joints to a commercial for PEC tools was pretty creative.
Your wood working how to vids of way better than all the rest out there. Keep a steady hand, pls do not rush it. You looked, investigated, understood, did it better. Now just keep at it. Doing it in your own, natural way. It's the best and will pay off. No pressure is best practice. Always. Long term. No comparison. Ever. Please. Awesome shit man.
4:22 "A butt joint is end-grain connected to face-grain." That's not quite right. A butt joint is any two surfaces against each other without lap (or OVER-lap) or additional fasteners or cuts (&c.). The wood grain is not part of the definition (although in practice, of course, some grain combinations are far more likely in common applications).
Right on. I cut "sloppy" finger joints for tolex covered amplifier cabinets for just that reason. Glue. They're going to be covered. Even "sloppy", they sand out with no gaps. They are crazy strong, and I promise guitar amplifier cabinets get way more abuse than fine furniture. If sloppy finger joints are good enough for guitar cabinets, they're probably fine for your homebrew furniture work (strength wise). Of course, like you say dovetails are pretty. I respect anyone who has the patience and bandwidth and unit-price to cover the work. For the rest of us, finger joints are the way to go.
Using mitres will "trick people into thinking you're actually good at woodworking." Well it's working, you look like a master.
I love the way you put the science behind the process.
Are you a teacher by trade?? You're so good at breaking complicated concepts down and making them more understandable. The straw visual was incredible helpful!
He is clearly not a teacher as he uses the panel saw without the guard which is potentially dangerous. He needs some education in how to use a saw
Thanks!
@@jimpackard8059 *facepalm...
I'm just starting out so I mostly settled on dowels and (pocket) screws with butt joints. I know it's not the fancy solution but it's easy to do and really strong. I think that for now I have enough to learn as-is
The problem with 'A is stronger then B' is: stronger at what? The joint tests test one thing. Some joints are better at that one thing than others. But other joints are better at another thing, and that was not tested. So try to be very skeptical in determining the accuracy of any joint test. Look to see if the test evaluates real-world stresses.
Very good point! The joints at the front of a drawer won't have to deal with much bending stress, but the tensile strength will be tested every time the drawer is opened or slammed shut. That makes me think that in this application, dovetails would have a longevity advantage over glue alone.
Another reason an amateur might pick one joint vs another: Fun! Since this a hobby for me, being effective at it is a somewhat surprisingly low priority. I do value quality, looks, and want to be proud of the final product, but sometimes I choose what I think will be an enjoyable challenge, even if it contradicts an objectively wiser option (...up to a point).
If you like dowels, the dowelmax system is fantastic and high quality.
Thank you for your video. I really liked how you encourage us to try and not worry about making mistakes. That's the only way we can learn - through our success and mistakes.
Best explanation of setting up a lap joint I’ve ever seen. Maybe now I’ll try one!
Do it!
As a learned carpenter i tell you that all these handcrafted joints easily look more fancy than ugly screws, hence why everybody still uses them regardless of benefits
Drawers are not sufficiently stressed to break in that location. First, it's tradition; second, it looks sweet, dude!
Dovetails will never fail in a drawer. There is a reason they have been used for thousands of years.
Fantastic video. I just learnt more in 17 minutes than the past 7 years doing DIY projects. 😬👍🏻
Nice information for the new woodworker. Your lack of master shows in your conclusions that are based on some else’s tests and not your own experience over time. It’s true modern glues are stronger than old ones, however a mechanical joint will always be stronger long term than a glued one. I use to believe what you do but age and experience has shown me otherwise. I do wish videos such as this were around when I was starting out decades ago as it would have shortened my learning curve. It’s refreshing to see a younger generation taking up woodworking. Best of luck with the channel!
Just wanted to let you know that thanks to you I finally fucked up my end table - but it's finished! Only I was able to find out where it's fucked up when I asked friends to try and find the defect. I appreciate your videos.
That’s awesome! Keep fucking up!
Word mashup gets a like all on it's own!
I loved your humility, when you said Someone Will Correct Me In The Comments.
You Know What You Are Talking About !
You have been consistently putting out the best woodworking videos on youtube for years now. I watch A LOT of yoube woodworking content. You're on top my guy
@@jamesburton6661 much appreciated!
I watch a lot of UA-cam woodworking content and I have to agree. Disappointed in myself for just discovering his channel today.
Well done video. You hit all the basics for a beginner woodworker.
12:17 We're tidying up 40 years of clutter at a woodworking factory, and no, a modern glue joint will not outlast a dovetail joint.
Great video dude. I've been woodworking for years and this is a very succinct video that combines a lot of the simpler techniques I use. I do it for fun and hobby, so because they're simple I don't waste a ton of time on fooling around with joinery
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m almost speechless at how amazing this video is. So comprehensive. Not a wasted word. No skipping over the tricky bits. Every aspect clearly demonstrated. Emphasis on practicality, and, of course, plenty of snipes at the “I’m a fancier woodworker than you” crowd (& UA-cam “actors”). You sir are a master educator and motivational shop teacher. Sincerely, very satisfied subscriber.
Wow, thank you!
Favorite picture frame joint is a miter and half lap combo. No idea whats its called but its the best of both. Mitered front face look but strength and auto squareness of half lap. Pain to do by hand, but satisfying.
9:48 I'll never be able to watch the movie _Deliverance_ again the same way. 😂
He gawt a real purdy mouth, ainee 😁
I love when a professional shares his know-how
I also find it hilarious when people treat the dovetail as a high end skill that is the epitome of joinery. The second you start seeing classical Japanese joinery, it puts dovetails to shame in both workmanship and appearance.
Well, yes and no. The dovetail is a strong and classy joint, and seems to represent a certain amount of experience from the crafter. An expert can bang them out in no time.
At the same time, it's mostly the people who don't know much about it who seem to appreciate it the most. Its like being told whats good and then you aspire to that.
In modern days it basically means the stuff you hear the most about must be the best. Popularity dictates perceived quality. Dovetails are popular, so they must be good.
@@stefanfyhn4668 I agree wholeheartedly. My statement is based off what I see on videos and especially on comments on YT, reddit, etc. It’s that attitudes people get about it. It’s especially prevalent when people try to insist that it is the strongest, most stable joint. Also, and even though it is a nice looking joint, there are better ones in my opinion.
The skill and accuracy of Japanese woodworking is wonderful to see and hard to beat. One reason is that Japan has no native source of iron so they had to do without iron nails and fixings, and only had animal glues which are not waterproof, so they had to try harder!
I personally like dovetails on drawers because they elegantly provide the ideal strength of joint. Every time you open a drawer, you are trying to pull the face off the drawer sides. The wedge form means that the joint tightens when you pull on it.
As a retired furniture maker I know that people are impressed by dovetails so I bought myself an expensive jig and two new routers some years ago. With careful use it worked beautifully.
Where it takes them hours or days to joint cut.....it takes us the same time to complete the whole job...successfully...
@@majordendrocoposwhat about Japanese steel?
I want to add over to something you already said : wooden stuff are mostly *assemblies* and not single joints. You also build these assemblies for a *purpose*, or said otherwise, whistand certain type of constraints. You don't need each best individual joint, but only a sufficiently good combination of joints to whistand the constraints.
Not only is modern wood glue incredibly strong, but most youtube woodworkers use way too much of it. You just need a tiny bead when tightening, not glue literally dripping out on to your bench.
yeah he is one of them, 12:45 thats already too much. Yes glue can improve a joint but applying so much that it drips everywhere is just wrong. One shouls also mention that most glues are "pressure sensitive adhesives", meaning that that you have to apply pressure with clamps until it's dry. I eiredly get the feeling hes is just plastering it on and leaves it be ...
Great advice and educational information!! One tool I now miss for making joints is my radial arm saw. For years I cut dadoes and lap joints where the joints joined perfectly, due to the fact that on my radial arm saw I could see what I was doing. However, turning the board upside down to make the same joints on a table saw or router table, simply makes all the "precise" cuts "in the blind" so to speak is much more difficult. Maybe it is just prejudice on my part, but for some reason I find those sort of joints much more difficult on a table saw. Thank you for the excellent video.
Dovetails by hand are actually a lot easier to make than you would think. It takes a bit if practice (obviously), but once you can accurately draw a line and saw straight, it's pretty easy.
Lincoln: Shows all the cool joints you can do with glue and stuff
Me: only uses screws and nails
I love the amount of ways you can joint two boards, and I plan on getting more into glueing, and its great to have a fairly on point guide about all the different jointing methods. The only two main reasons I never liked glueing wood is the dry time and not being able to take it apart simply by reversing the screw. I feel like I just have gotten used to hiding all the screws in places no one can easily see. But since some of my projects will deal with some pretty hefty loads, its probably a good idea I add in glue to the mixture too.
Dovetails are used in drawers not because of strength but because of the taper and the direction of force !