Yeah. Buying a new 4k bike at a stealership for 7.2k out the door isn't exactly worth it. People are even selling used motorcycles 5 years old for MSRP in my area
I am 63 years old, I currently have three motorcycles. 2001 Honda Shadow 750 ACE, 2003 Suzuki GSXR 600, and a 2004 Honda ST 1300. I make about 78,000 a year. I have been paying on my pickup truck for 4 years, and as of August 2025 I will you finish paying for it. I would like to get another brand new bike, I have never owned, or financed a brand new bike. In 2025 once the truck is paid for, I might buy a CF Moto, or a Royal Enfield. I just cannot afford to buy a new Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, or Yamaha at their current prices. This was an awesome topic thanks for sharing.
Pointless to make cheap bikes - there is no market for them as it's too much hassle to go through the current stepped licensing procedure. The only people that are really likely to get a full licence are genuine enthusiasts, not people wanting to ride to work. Very few people ride a bike for purely practical reasons anymore.
He's not talking about making cheap made bikes, he says that we need good quality bikes that maybe are a little behind on the latest features and technology, but are more affordable like the hornet series from honda, proper quality bikes that are really undercutting the competition
@@stephanachill OK.. lets look at this in detail.. Lets look at a 160cc bike with a chinese Honda replica engine with cheaper basic suspension and tyres that currently sells for £1700.. Lets keep the motor its OK... Lets have a European made chassis, wheels and better tyres. Move up a level on the suspension to a smaller known but still European made brand... That bike retails at £6500. I am looking at an actual bike that is actually not a road bike but it is a kids (or adults) bike and one brand I know of has bikes in various specs going from full Chinese to part Chinese and part European. The difference is £4800 between them. A £5000 bike now would be about £2000 back in 1990 when even a CBR600 was over £6000 new. Its not realistic and it is just insane to think that a European or Japanese brand could even get close to that £5000 or even £6000 price point.
@@YAMR1M Aside from the brand name, when you are going with an established manufacturer you can be more sure about the quality and the market value of your vehicle. But compering prices from 30 years ago while not taking into consideration inflation is pretty pointless. Plus i don't know what manufacturers you were talking about for the 160cc bike, but the difference in prices between lesser known chinese brands like voge or sym or zontes (these are some local smaller Chinese brands in my local market) are like at most 2000€ cheaper when it comes to 125s (which big brand 125s are insanely overpriced imo) and as the displacements go up the price gaps get lower. If I had to choose would rather pay a grand more to know that im gonna get something pretty reliable that would hold its value. And when you get past the A2 limit these manufacturers dont even offer anything so you dont even have the choice of not buying from a bigger name. So yes bikes like th 1000 hornet from honda are your best bet if you are looking for a bike in this power range and in other classes respectively you will find other cheaper options from other manufacturers. If not then you can probably buy a used bike thats a few years old and still be cheaper than the cheapest option in its respective category
A person who living in "developing countries" here, Small CC bikes are cheap but what i see often online is that ppl in general just wanna ride big/sporty bikes. Those are luxury just like u said.
I live in SE Asia and there are hundreds of millions of small cc bikes & mopeds. Western countries sales of “big” bikes is miniscule and irrelevant to global income.
Yeah when I got mine all my friends thought I was crazy, they were saying things like "do you know how dangerous those things are" and " you're going to get yourself killed", and even when I explained the statistics and that the stigma isn't true and everything else they still wouldn't accept it, they wouldn't even accept proven facts because of their preconceived notions and bias about motorcycles. You really have to find someone with an open mind who is willing to look at the data and accept it for what it is. It's sad that so many people are so ill informed and so bias and stubborn about bikes.
@@1000yeardragonThe worst are the ones who will write you off as an "organ donor" or even say that those who died on motorcycles "deserved it for "taking the risk" I was told I was taking my life into my hands for riding an 80cc motorscooter on a well lit access road to commute. Despite never getting above 40mph, always wearing a full faced helmet, hi viz riding jacket, jeans and boots. Sadly everything I said above I have heard personally or saw it said to others who ride. The lack of care for the lives of others, just for having a different form of transportation (all I can afford rn) leaves me a mix of angry, defeated and sad all at once.
@ClaireFelidae yeah, i seriously think there's a Biker Derangement Syndrome that some cagers grt where they just hate us for no reason to the point where they literally wish death upon us, it's ridiculous and just shows how delusional and insane some people are, to wish for someone's death simply because they ride a motorcycle is absolutely insane and evil
NEVER had anyone talk down to me or call me an organ donor for having a bike. Bu then I also started riding at about 9 or 10 years old and have raced as well as ridden all of my life since then...
I remember a local dealer was selling brand new parallel import Honda Fireblades for £5500 back in 1998 what a bargain. In 2003 I bought a brand new Kawasaki KDX 220 for £3200 from a main dealer. How things have changed all bike are ridiculously expensive now.
People have a similar attitude towards bikes to what they have towards cars. If people are passionate about it, they know what they are about and are looking for particular things in a bike. If they are the specs-reading fans, it is a similar case to SUVs being designed by accountants catering to the insane demand for cup holders. And that's about it, the motorcycling industry's trends have somewhat merged with the consumer attitudes in the car industry.
I found not one but two 2018 Honda CB1000R ( plus model ) for 6500 Swiss francs (and I live in Switzerland, one of the countries where the cost of living is very high). A bike with all the electronic aids and the icing on the cake with the electronic up/down quickshifter. The second hand market is ablaze with bargains and high value motorbikes with ridiculous prices for what they offer. I bought a 2010 Kawasaki Z1000 with only 12,000 km for 6000 Swiss francs.
I mean honestly I think he is right about the affordable motorbikes, in my city for what I can tell it's relatively rare to see new motorbikes and honeslty when looking at what motorbikes are around, most of them are older scooters, rarely the upper price ones like the honda forza or the yamaha x or tmax, when looking at manual geared bikes what I see the most is either older models or new hondas cbf125s or chinese brands such as macbor or zontes etc. I myself own a ninja 125 and in a relatively big city I've only seen one other around, and a couple yamaha r125s if we are talking about the high end 125s. Hell it's way more common for me to see 2000's fazers or cbr 600 f's than brand new a2 or a licence motorbikes. I mean brand new motorbikes are so unrealistically priced compared to proven extremely reliable secondhand models that even with their prices raising, who would buy a new cbr500 at its new price against a used cbr 600f for about 2.5 to 3k euro, it's less than half the price, hell it's almost a third of the price. I dont regret buying my ninja 125 but I aknowledge it wasnt the best financial decision.
They charge those prices precisely because as you describe it, it's a mere "hobby" for lots of people so they charge hobby prices. If more people used their bikes as viable means of transport not just sunny sunday toys, the bikes would be built to reflect this and prices would come down.
A lot of the problem with making a cheap bike these days are that the governments in a lot of countries don't like them and will do just about anything to get rid of them. They are making it that companies have to spend a lot on the item to get it passed the countries import laws. Also you have dealers and motorcycle companies having to make a profit to stay in business.
The majority of motorcycles have always been somewhat unaffordable to the majority of the population, the reason being that more money is made from financing than from sales. However, unlike the car industry which has successfully destroyed other forms of transportation, motorcycles are still an optional luxury good for both the US and the UK. It's notable that cheap Chinese scooters have absolutely exploded throughout the UK; their sales outnumber all other motorized vehicles combined. The UK is a relatively poor nation, with those who can afford cars buying cars and the rest buying cheap scooters; the median salary difference South and North UK (ie London) is shockingly wide.
I bought my daughter a brand new z125 it was £3800 as it had £500 off, when I was looking for a second hand one anything that was decent was about £3500. Saying that she races bicycles and her road bike was over £5000 and it does not even have an engine. So when you see some mammal huffing and puffing up a hill, remember his bike probably cost more then yours.😂
None of my bikes even have ABS. MY ZX14R is the most tech savvy of all my bikes since it has ride modes and traction control. I like the no tech, if I have more tech I will be looking at the screen more than the road.
Same here! I don't have it on my car or motorcycle. Look up how much it costs for an abs modulator. For my car it's 1,200-1,700 dollars. It is really easy to mess those up on a brake job. All it takes is one air bubble.
Unless money was no object i wouldnt buy a new bike now. Period. That being said ive just purchased a 2007 Aprilia SXV550. Under 100kg in weight, completely serviceable by me. I can plug in my laptop and have complete control over it, send new mappings over, adjust throttle position etc etc....second hand spares are cheap, stock it makes 75brake (a bit more with a full system which ive just got (Arrow). This will outperform any current supermoto and the only caveat is i have to change the oil every 500 miles or so... (1.2 litres) so not the end of the world. Give me that over any brand new supermoto and it cost me much less than half the price of a new one. Engine has been fully rebuilt and just run in. Lovely. It was cheap enough that i didnt have to sell any of my other bikes. I'd just like to add that when one of those versys/sx 1100 motors comes up for breaking...im gonna transplant one into my z1000...
British customers wants big motorcycles. Look at the markets in India, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, Thailand and Pakistan with reliable inexpensive motorcycles. Brits are rich and ride big expensive motorcycles as a hobby. Look at your own ZZR1400 and watch all the reviews of motorcycles on UA-cam made by Brits.
Hey I am from India. I own r15. It's reliable in budget and I don't have to spend money. I am student too. Here in India after licence you are just free.
There is a pretty cheap 125cc bike. The kymco VSR125 brand new I got mine for £2000 but typically they go for around £2500 and the insurance is cheap aswell I just got mine a month after passing my test and it only cost me £900 to insure the bike not the fastest but can reach 60moh comfortably and downhill I can go 70mph I think that this is a good option for people who are looking for their first bike because it is cheap and fun to ride and good for new riders. Just thought I would say this after I saw the part where you talked about the cheap 125cc bikes being £3000+
They always had marketed them towards the old dad. I dont see much dad's riding a KTM duke 390 or on an Mt07 as those are always ridden by younger 20 yr old hooligans. I might get a duke 390 as my next bike actually
Couldn't agree more! I live in the USA. Prices are out of control. A lot of motorcycles cost more than my grandparents home. Get rid of abs, traction control, cruise control, slipper clutch, launch control, tft display. I don't have any of that and not even a drop yet. No one wants to hear this. They've been brainwashed by influencers and the big companies into thinking they need these things. Zombies 🧟♂️
Call me old-fashioned, but I do agree. I like the old needle analogue displays, I think they're far easier to read at a glance or even floating around in your periferal vision than some flash graphics on a TFT display. If I wanted satnav, I'd get a satnav unit. I don't need nor want to focus on flicking through menu's on a joystick until I have the right screen up, distracting me from the road. Another thing is 'all your eggs in one basket'. A bulb goes out on my speedo, the speedo still works. A single component failure inside a TFT, you've lost literally everything.
@mazdamaniac4643 All the electronics will go bad. Look up what costs for an abs module for your car. After that look up the average labor cost is to replace it. Nope I'm good. 😆
@@grandprixjames Again, I completely agree my friend. I used to be a commercial technician for Ford and know very well how much some of these ABS modules cost to repair/replace...no thank you! I've never agreed with having ABS on bikes for one simple reason, what is the point of having a split front and rear brake if all of it goes through the ABS module...which can fail at any moment and for any reason. As a last ditch effort if everything has gone wrong? I'm sorry, that's a very poor excuse for putting yourself in that situation in the first place. If you own your mistakes, you can learn from them. Crashing your bike and crying about it because _the ABS didn't save me_ is simply bad and unsafe riding.
Brother where I live it’s crazy u pull up to a Wawa gas station any night of the week there are 19 red Ducati panigale 1198 s in a row and they all have under 21 year old tags. Mommy & daddy’s money is messing up the market and tbh they don’t make it to the next season. It’s getting out of hand
Bought yesterday a mint condition z650 from 2017 with a lot of extras for half the price of a new one. This is the only way to get a good cheap bike. Even middleweights are close to 10k after taxes. Also, in europe, euro 4 bikes are better than euro 5 which made them lose power and gain ultra heavy exhausts. Also, throttle response is worse day by day due to emissions laws.
I totally agree, china makes some fantastically looking bikes at affordable prices, many of them are more attractive than some premium brands from japan etc. if china decided to break into the 1000cc market with their ability to produce such awesome looking bikes then i too think they could clean up the market.
Honda did this by releasing the XR150L in the USA which has been abroad for years. Of course they jacked up the price a bit and stealerships add their "fees" on , but it's still cheap relatively speaking and is a great general purpose bike. The USA market has been pushed into more and more expensive and feature rich models of what were once utilitarian things - take pickup trucks for example. Same thing with bikes. Who the hell needs all the USB chargers and tech. It's ridiculous. And Suzuki charging crazy prices for their bikes that have been unchanged for decades (example DR650). And they wonder why people aren't getting into bikes anymore.
Everything has gone up in price 🤷♂️ it’s annoying but I think the prices going up have taken out the people who buy bikes and don’t know what they are actually doing. They’ve just bought a bike because it’s cheap. And then accidents happen and they eventually sell the bike with all sorts wrong with it. I just got a better job and have bought a brand new R7. I’m 22 and I can afford it. Just gotta save and keep your eyes out. None the less good video
Back in the day, the manufacturers did not have to adhere to some of the strict rules we have today. ABS costs. Meeting emissions and noise regulations costs. Meeting reliability standards costs, quality standards same, bikes weren't this expensive, then again they were not this reliable either. You can't sell parts in Europe with less than a two year warranty for example, the price will match the quality, nothing can be super cheap any more because there's a minimum standard of quality by legislation and the bar is set high. And make no mistake, with the constant increase of the population, we're already past 8 billion I believe, our "right" of owning our own means of transportation, car bike etc, will no longer be taken for granted. They won't come and legislate against being able to own your own vehicles, they will just price you out, they will make purchasing and owning one too expensive for a constantly increasing percentage of the population. It's already happening and it is normal and inevitable. They are becoming increasingly expensive, together with tax and insurance and penalties for putting foot wrong on the road, when at the same time you're getting increasingly restricted on how you drive/ride. So now imagine buying a much cheaper bike offering the bare minimum, then tax and insurance cost as much as the bike itself within two years, does it make much sense to you? And calling for Western quality standards at Chinese prices doesn't make much sense, it is a self defeating argument, "I want cheap bikes, but not Chinese one, I want quality cheap bikes".
Yeah, but going back and forth between the US and Western Europe, European riders are superbly trained on well-maintained motorcycles. Here in the US where I live, a group ride is truly an adventure with the number of inexperienced riders on bikes of questionable reliability. But you also don't want to give motorists free rein to drive and park everywhere for free. I live in the southern US, and all cities here have gradually become these tiny buildings surrounded by enormous roads and parking lots. Most of the surface area is devoted to parking. Only poor people walk or ride bicycles; the rest have enormous car loans. That's not a fiscally responsible and healthy society.
Not sure if you have ever heard of 'inflation'. New motorcycles are cheaper now than 20 years ago and have to have additional safety, emission controls plus all the tech. A MT-09 sp new today is cheaper (inflation corrected) than a cbr600 in 2005.
I guess that this video was recorded a couple weeks ago, because honda just did exactly what you are suggesting with the cb 1000 hornet, this is the definition of a bike for the people
@@gibmeister5854 when it comes to value for money out of the Japanese honda is the last to come in mind, especially with their cbrs, but with their hornet 750 they undercut all of their competition and with the new 1000 there isn't any competition nowhere close this price range, its like 1.5k cheaper than an mt09
Even with the larger bikes, I only see Honda with the CB 750 as below 8k Euro or 7k GBP as an outlier in the market. They want to sell the new 1000 Hornet at around 10k Euros... wich is incredible for a 1000cc inline 4. But with Euro 5 or upcoming Euro 6 emissions, and the engine development that is requiered and needs to be payed for, I doubt you will ever see extremely cheap bikes again. On the other hand, sub 10k to get a new, great riding bike with up to 100hp is still good value in my opinion. But also still too steep for me. So I got myself a '87 CBR 600F1 and a '07 VFR 800 to have fun with. For about half the money I would pay for a Hornet 750. After having test - ridden many (a few dozens) new bikes, I can confidently say: None stirr up the same emotions like my 80s CBR or the VTEC V4 symphony of the VFR. (And no, I did not ride a RSV4 or similar, since I want a sports tourer, not a Racer). The only one that really made me say: I WANT THAT NOW was the H2. Wich is 25k€.... So no...
i really want a Used FZ6 S2 for cheaper then you can get a ninja 500, not only that all my roads here are 70+ mph with people often doing 100+ here in texas, so a 250 or 125 is not gunna cut it! After 5-8k USD id rather just buy a second car/truck!!!!!! Dealers are asking crazy prices for anything bigger then a 300 here. Another one i want is a Honda monkey and that little shit is 5-6K from dealers here! FOR A MONKEY, which would be nothing but a toy for the neighborhood and backroad here
When vogu can drop a 900cc that's bursting with tech for less than 9k, Maybe dropping tech to basic is not the problem, maybe they are just paying the brand name, And yes vogu is Chinese, but look at the parts that are used on the bike, and look at who uses them parts on the more premium manufacturers,
Not really.. Apart from the Superbikes which are homologation specials in real terms to go racing. Honda RC30, Yamaha OW01, Suzuki GSXR750R and the Ducati 851/888 were all over £10,000 back in the late 1980s and early 1990's. So a £25k bike now would have cost £10,400 in 1990. None of those bikes had the tech we have now and were very analogue bikes yet in real terms they are the same price now at they were in 1990. My Honda CBR600F2 back in 1993 cost me £6500 new and that would be the same as £13,600 now yet the Yamaha R7 which is a close equivalent in class and power to the CBR600 I had cost £8900 new. So NO bike prices have not actually gone up.. Our Volvo new was £53,000 and you may think this was some top of the range turbo charged rapid version when in reality it was just a Volvo XC60 base model with some optional extras the first owner had fitted to it.. So have the manufacturers actually forgot who buy their products or is it simply inflation and a dream of buying a modern good quality Japanese or European bike been tainted by the prices of the cheap Chinese and Indian brands? Would you buy a 1000cc CF Moto sports bike over your Kawasaki?? Probably not... But then you will moan at how much it cost.. A 250cc road bike when I was 17 cost about £900, YES I AM OLDER, but at the time the 250cc bike I was riding cost £12,000 new as it was a 250cc race bike being raced at club and national level. SO the road bike was over 12 times cheaper than the race version from the same brand and now we have world superbikes that have to be based on the road bikes being raced in a world championship yet it is not 12 times the cost even if you have like Kawasaki an RR version of the ZX10R. So they are NOT over priced, its just biking is now a leisure activity and not a daily used form of transport. If people stop buying new bikes, then there will be no second hand bikes to buy in the future. As for enjoyment then it depends on how you ride. If you ride slowly and not use the bike fully then even a cheap bike will be fine. But if you actually ride it hard and as it was designed then there is a massive difference between an older bike and a new bike. So your idea of a cut bike 1000cc bike with basic suspension and basic tyres... OK how safe would having north of 150bhp being put through tyres not really made to run that kind of power and be a long lasting harder rubber compound work? It will be dangerous if you don't expect owners to ride the bikes and used all of the power they are producing. Same with suspension too. If the bike is set up for the average customer whatever that is and not being able to be set up for lighter, heavier riders or riders that will want to make the bike work is not going to be safe for many of the riders who own those bikes or they have to spend thousands to make it work better for them when they could just buy a bike that suits them now..The other option is if you can't legally do over 70mph and a 650cc twin will easily out accelerate even a sporty saloon on the road and that bike will cost you £7600 and do over 55mpg, why buy a 1000cc bike?? You can't use the 1000cc bike it costs more to run, insure and buy for zero benefit.. Unless you are going to use it hard, break the law or do trackdays, ride in Germany then your point of an affordable 1000cc bike is pointless. Hell talking about suspension even my 155cc pit bike has fully adjustable forks, high and low speed compression damping, preload and rebound damping in the rear shock and it gets used fully. Would I look at buying a 1000cc bike with basic suspension?? NO not in a million years, I don't like the idea of being highsided off a bike again.. Been there, done that and not only ate the meal but still have the damage to show for it.. But then you don't ride quickly, know how to push a bike harder or know how to ride at anything beyond a fairly basic level from what I have seen.
Do not read the tone of this as acusatory, but 125cc motorcycles are sold more then 600cc motorcycles but not where you live. honda makes amazing 2-3000 dolor motorcycles in asian markets but they do not seell them to you because they do not fit with the band image in noth america. (aka. they can make you pay for the more expensive thing)
You want luxury even after Brexit when continental Europe stopped supporting luxury life in the UK. I live in Denmark (part of the EU) and we have several proper Japanese motorcycles cheaper than the Royal Enfield 350 models. It will happen in the UK too. When you can't afford cars anymore you will get cheaper motorcycles. Don't worry.
Look at the new hyabusa. New they are massivley over priced. £18k new, and they drop £5k to £6k in price after a couple of thousand miles... and the is from suzuki, who stand by bang for buck.
Cars and bikes are luxury items though 🤷We don't need cars we don't need bikes yes it makes life easier having one but you can always walk to work or catch a bus. Its why a lot of people are struggling as they prioritize the ownership of a car or bike and most end up spending more than they need to for a car or bike for most its the second biggest purchase they'll make in their life. Insurance is becoming crippling, police don't care about thefts and a lot more people don't have expendable money to buy that new bike they want so that's why most of these dealers are now in hot water as they cant shift them as the people who used to buy them don't have the money and the risk of theft is far greater so most don't want the hassle. Oh and drivers of cars are getting worse and police want to catch you speeding more now than ever so that's another factor. The death of motorcycles in the UK wont be from one key factor but an accumulation of many smaller ones and the governments not helping with its laws with ulez and net zero. For me i wanted a bike because its cheaper to own than a car and you can filter so I'm not sat in traffic everyday for hours, car ownership used to be something i really wanted but as I've gotten older i realized its just one big financial black hole and it will just swallow your hard earned money. Sadly it seems bikes are heading in the same direction as I've only just recently got on 2 wheels so my first year of owning a bike has cost me about £8000 yes its down to some mistakes I've made but you can see why a lot of people would just not bother with a bike and just get a car £165 CBT £600 bike riding gear £3300 new Chinese bike 125cc (Sym JET X) £1100 insurance TPFT (first car Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 only cost £700 fully comp) £350 better tires ( Chinese tires was like riding on ice in wet) £120 first service ( 600 mile service) £2400 better bike ( first bike wasn't the best) new bike was £4000 but got £1600 back on trade in i went Honda this time a Forza 125cc 22 plate low miles £160 insurance change over
Bikes are not expensive in fact they on average have got cheaper over time when accounting for inflation. People are just broke, wages have not gone up.
Yeah. Buying a new 4k bike at a stealership for 7.2k out the door isn't exactly worth it. People are even selling used motorcycles 5 years old for MSRP in my area
I am 63 years old, I currently have three motorcycles. 2001 Honda Shadow 750 ACE, 2003 Suzuki GSXR 600, and a 2004 Honda ST 1300. I make about 78,000 a year. I have been paying on my pickup truck for 4 years, and as of August 2025 I will you finish paying for it. I would like to get another brand new bike, I have never owned, or financed a brand new bike. In 2025 once the truck is paid for, I might buy a CF Moto, or a Royal Enfield. I just cannot afford to buy a new Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, or Yamaha at their current prices. This was an awesome topic thanks for sharing.
Pointless to make cheap bikes - there is no market for them as it's too much hassle to go through the current stepped licensing procedure. The only people that are really likely to get a full licence are genuine enthusiasts, not people wanting to ride to work. Very few people ride a bike for purely practical reasons anymore.
@@gk73man51 I ride for pure practical reasons tho
He's not talking about making cheap made bikes, he says that we need good quality bikes that maybe are a little behind on the latest features and technology, but are more affordable like the hornet series from honda, proper quality bikes that are really undercutting the competition
@@stephanachill OK.. lets look at this in detail.. Lets look at a 160cc bike with a chinese Honda replica engine with cheaper basic suspension and tyres that currently sells for £1700.. Lets keep the motor its OK... Lets have a European made chassis, wheels and better tyres. Move up a level on the suspension to a smaller known but still European made brand... That bike retails at £6500. I am looking at an actual bike that is actually not a road bike but it is a kids (or adults) bike and one brand I know of has bikes in various specs going from full Chinese to part Chinese and part European. The difference is £4800 between them. A £5000 bike now would be about £2000 back in 1990 when even a CBR600 was over £6000 new. Its not realistic and it is just insane to think that a European or Japanese brand could even get close to that £5000 or even £6000 price point.
with the sky rocketing price of cars i know a few ppl getting into biking to save money
@@YAMR1M Aside from the brand name, when you are going with an established manufacturer you can be more sure about the quality and the market value of your vehicle. But compering prices from 30 years ago while not taking into consideration inflation is pretty pointless. Plus i don't know what manufacturers you were talking about for the 160cc bike, but the difference in prices between lesser known chinese brands like voge or sym or zontes (these are some local smaller Chinese brands in my local market) are like at most 2000€ cheaper when it comes to 125s (which big brand 125s are insanely overpriced imo) and as the displacements go up the price gaps get lower. If I had to choose would rather pay a grand more to know that im gonna get something pretty reliable that would hold its value. And when you get past the A2 limit these manufacturers dont even offer anything so you dont even have the choice of not buying from a bigger name. So yes bikes like th 1000 hornet from honda are your best bet if you are looking for a bike in this power range and in other classes respectively you will find other cheaper options from other manufacturers. If not then you can probably buy a used bike thats a few years old and still be cheaper than the cheapest option in its respective category
A person who living in "developing countries" here, Small CC bikes are cheap but what i see often online is that ppl in general just wanna ride big/sporty bikes. Those are luxury just like u said.
I live in SE Asia and there are hundreds of millions of small cc bikes & mopeds. Western countries sales of “big” bikes is miniscule and irrelevant to global income.
The big problem I see is I know very few people who are willing to get into motorcycles not because of price but the undeserved stigma around them
Yeah when I got mine all my friends thought I was crazy, they were saying things like "do you know how dangerous those things are" and " you're going to get yourself killed", and even when I explained the statistics and that the stigma isn't true and everything else they still wouldn't accept it, they wouldn't even accept proven facts because of their preconceived notions and bias about motorcycles. You really have to find someone with an open mind who is willing to look at the data and accept it for what it is. It's sad that so many people are so ill informed and so bias and stubborn about bikes.
@@1000yeardragonThe worst are the ones who will write you off as an "organ donor" or even say that those who died on motorcycles "deserved it for "taking the risk"
I was told I was taking my life into my hands for riding an 80cc motorscooter on a well lit access road to commute. Despite never getting above 40mph, always wearing a full faced helmet, hi viz riding jacket, jeans and boots.
Sadly everything I said above I have heard personally or saw it said to others who ride. The lack of care for the lives of others, just for having a different form of transportation (all I can afford rn) leaves me a mix of angry, defeated and sad all at once.
@ClaireFelidae yeah, i seriously think there's a Biker Derangement Syndrome that some cagers grt where they just hate us for no reason to the point where they literally wish death upon us, it's ridiculous and just shows how delusional and insane some people are, to wish for someone's death simply because they ride a motorcycle is absolutely insane and evil
What stigma lol, everyone and their mother understands that motorcycles are cool, dangerous sure but cool, there's no stigma.
NEVER had anyone talk down to me or call me an organ donor for having a bike. Bu then I also started riding at about 9 or 10 years old and have raced as well as ridden all of my life since then...
I remember a local dealer was selling brand new parallel import Honda Fireblades for £5500 back in 1998 what a bargain. In 2003 I bought a brand new Kawasaki KDX 220 for £3200 from a main dealer. How things have changed all bike are ridiculously expensive now.
People have a similar attitude towards bikes to what they have towards cars. If people are passionate about it, they know what they are about and are looking for particular things in a bike. If they are the specs-reading fans, it is a similar case to SUVs being designed by accountants catering to the insane demand for cup holders.
And that's about it, the motorcycling industry's trends have somewhat merged with the consumer attitudes in the car industry.
Wait 3000 pounds for a 125cc? That's ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as buying a brand new scooter
I found not one but two 2018 Honda CB1000R ( plus model ) for 6500 Swiss francs (and I live in Switzerland, one of the countries where the cost of living is very high). A bike with all the electronic aids and the icing on the cake with the electronic up/down quickshifter. The second hand market is ablaze with bargains and high value motorbikes with ridiculous prices for what they offer. I bought a 2010 Kawasaki Z1000 with only 12,000 km for 6000 Swiss francs.
I mean honestly I think he is right about the affordable motorbikes, in my city for what I can tell it's relatively rare to see new motorbikes and honeslty when looking at what motorbikes are around, most of them are older scooters, rarely the upper price ones like the honda forza or the yamaha x or tmax, when looking at manual geared bikes what I see the most is either older models or new hondas cbf125s or chinese brands such as macbor or zontes etc. I myself own a ninja 125 and in a relatively big city I've only seen one other around, and a couple yamaha r125s if we are talking about the high end 125s. Hell it's way more common for me to see 2000's fazers or cbr 600 f's than brand new a2 or a licence motorbikes.
I mean brand new motorbikes are so unrealistically priced compared to proven extremely reliable secondhand models that even with their prices raising, who would buy a new cbr500 at its new price against a used cbr 600f for about 2.5 to 3k euro, it's less than half the price, hell it's almost a third of the price. I dont regret buying my ninja 125 but I aknowledge it wasnt the best financial decision.
They charge those prices precisely because as you describe it, it's a mere "hobby" for lots of people so they charge hobby prices. If more people used their bikes as viable means of transport not just sunny sunday toys, the bikes would be built to reflect this and prices would come down.
A lot of the problem with making a cheap bike these days are that the governments in a lot of countries don't like them and will do just about anything to get rid of them. They are making it that companies have to spend a lot on the item to get it passed the countries import laws. Also you have dealers and motorcycle companies having to make a profit to stay in business.
The majority of motorcycles have always been somewhat unaffordable to the majority of the population, the reason being that more money is made from financing than from sales. However, unlike the car industry which has successfully destroyed other forms of transportation, motorcycles are still an optional luxury good for both the US and the UK. It's notable that cheap Chinese scooters have absolutely exploded throughout the UK; their sales outnumber all other motorized vehicles combined. The UK is a relatively poor nation, with those who can afford cars buying cars and the rest buying cheap scooters; the median salary difference South and North UK (ie London) is shockingly wide.
Let's not forget the role insurance plays. Rates are insane for super sports.
I bought my daughter a brand new z125 it was £3800 as it had £500 off, when I was looking for a second hand one anything that was decent was about £3500. Saying that she races bicycles and her road bike was over £5000 and it does not even have an engine. So when you see some mammal huffing and puffing up a hill, remember his bike probably cost more then yours.😂
None of my bikes even have ABS. MY ZX14R is the most tech savvy of all my bikes since it has ride modes and traction control. I like the no tech, if I have more tech I will be looking at the screen more than the road.
Same here! I don't have it on my car or motorcycle. Look up how much it costs for an abs modulator. For my car it's 1,200-1,700 dollars. It is really easy to mess those up on a brake job. All it takes is one air bubble.
Unless money was no object i wouldnt buy a new bike now. Period. That being said ive just purchased a 2007 Aprilia SXV550. Under 100kg in weight, completely serviceable by me. I can plug in my laptop and have complete control over it, send new mappings over, adjust throttle position etc etc....second hand spares are cheap, stock it makes 75brake (a bit more with a full system which ive just got (Arrow). This will outperform any current supermoto and the only caveat is i have to change the oil every 500 miles or so... (1.2 litres) so not the end of the world. Give me that over any brand new supermoto and it cost me much less than half the price of a new one. Engine has been fully rebuilt and just run in. Lovely. It was cheap enough that i didnt have to sell any of my other bikes. I'd just like to add that when one of those versys/sx 1100 motors comes up for breaking...im gonna transplant one into my z1000...
British customers wants big motorcycles. Look at the markets in India, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, Thailand and Pakistan with reliable inexpensive motorcycles. Brits are rich and ride big expensive motorcycles as a hobby. Look at your own ZZR1400 and watch all the reviews of motorcycles on UA-cam made by Brits.
Hey I am from India. I own r15. It's reliable in budget and I don't have to spend money. I am student too. Here in India after licence you are just free.
Gotta love the CB125F. Had one for my first bike and loved it.
i passed my mod 2 a couple weeks ago, gonna hang on to my cb125f for anopther 6 months at least for the NCB
@WhippyWhip2 yeah that's what I did, passed my A2 is October but waited till next February before getting a bigger bike for my NCB
Ever since 2005 they stopped caring about the buyers and cared more about everything else
There is a pretty cheap 125cc bike. The kymco VSR125 brand new I got mine for £2000 but typically they go for around £2500 and the insurance is cheap aswell I just got mine a month after passing my test and it only cost me £900 to insure the bike not the fastest but can reach 60moh comfortably and downhill I can go 70mph I think that this is a good option for people who are looking for their first bike because it is cheap and fun to ride and good for new riders. Just thought I would say this after I saw the part where you talked about the cheap 125cc bikes being £3000+
@spitescorner hey its a British Spite!
They always had marketed them towards the old dad. I dont see much dad's riding a KTM duke 390 or on an Mt07 as those are always ridden by younger 20 yr old hooligans.
I might get a duke 390 as my next bike actually
Ouch
suzuki sv 650 here in italy is 6990e, but there are offers for just about 6000e which is, in my opinion, fair price
Couldn't agree more! I live in the USA. Prices are out of control. A lot of motorcycles cost more than my grandparents home. Get rid of abs, traction control, cruise control, slipper clutch, launch control, tft display. I don't have any of that and not even a drop yet. No one wants to hear this. They've been brainwashed by influencers and the big companies into thinking they need these things. Zombies 🧟♂️
Call me old-fashioned, but I do agree.
I like the old needle analogue displays, I think they're far easier to read at a glance or even floating around in your periferal vision than some flash graphics on a TFT display.
If I wanted satnav, I'd get a satnav unit. I don't need nor want to focus on flicking through menu's on a joystick until I have the right screen up, distracting me from the road.
Another thing is 'all your eggs in one basket'. A bulb goes out on my speedo, the speedo still works. A single component failure inside a TFT, you've lost literally everything.
@mazdamaniac4643 All the electronics will go bad. Look up what costs for an abs module for your car. After that look up the average labor cost is to replace it. Nope I'm good. 😆
@@grandprixjames Again, I completely agree my friend. I used to be a commercial technician for Ford and know very well how much some of these ABS modules cost to repair/replace...no thank you!
I've never agreed with having ABS on bikes for one simple reason, what is the point of having a split front and rear brake if all of it goes through the ABS module...which can fail at any moment and for any reason.
As a last ditch effort if everything has gone wrong? I'm sorry, that's a very poor excuse for putting yourself in that situation in the first place. If you own your mistakes, you can learn from them. Crashing your bike and crying about it because _the ABS didn't save me_ is simply bad and unsafe riding.
Brother where I live it’s crazy u pull up to a Wawa gas station any night of the week there are 19 red Ducati panigale 1198 s in a row and they all have under 21 year old tags. Mommy & daddy’s money is messing up the market and tbh they don’t make it to the next season. It’s getting out of hand
Bought yesterday a mint condition z650 from 2017 with a lot of extras for half the price of a new one. This is the only way to get a good cheap bike. Even middleweights are close to 10k after taxes. Also, in europe, euro 4 bikes are better than euro 5 which made them lose power and gain ultra heavy exhausts. Also, throttle response is worse day by day due to emissions laws.
I totally agree, china makes some fantastically looking bikes at affordable prices, many of them are more attractive than some premium brands from japan etc. if china decided to break into the 1000cc market with their ability to produce such awesome looking bikes then i too think they could clean up the market.
Honda did this by releasing the XR150L in the USA which has been abroad for years. Of course they jacked up the price a bit and stealerships add their "fees" on , but it's still cheap relatively speaking and is a great general purpose bike. The USA market has been pushed into more and more expensive and feature rich models of what were once utilitarian things - take pickup trucks for example. Same thing with bikes. Who the hell needs all the USB chargers and tech. It's ridiculous. And Suzuki charging crazy prices for their bikes that have been unchanged for decades (example DR650). And they wonder why people aren't getting into bikes anymore.
Everything has gone up in price 🤷♂️ it’s annoying but I think the prices going up have taken out the people who buy bikes and don’t know what they are actually doing. They’ve just bought a bike because it’s cheap. And then accidents happen and they eventually sell the bike with all sorts wrong with it. I just got a better job and have bought a brand new R7. I’m 22 and I can afford it. Just gotta save and keep your eyes out. None the less good video
Back in the day, the manufacturers did not have to adhere to some of the strict rules we have today.
ABS costs.
Meeting emissions and noise regulations costs.
Meeting reliability standards costs, quality standards same, bikes weren't this expensive, then again they were not this reliable either.
You can't sell parts in Europe with less than a two year warranty for example, the price will match the quality, nothing can be super cheap any more because there's a minimum standard of quality by legislation and the bar is set high.
And make no mistake, with the constant increase of the population, we're already past 8 billion I believe, our "right" of owning our own means of transportation, car bike etc, will no longer be taken for granted.
They won't come and legislate against being able to own your own vehicles, they will just price you out, they will make purchasing and owning one too expensive for a constantly increasing percentage of the population.
It's already happening and it is normal and inevitable.
They are becoming increasingly expensive, together with tax and insurance and penalties for putting foot wrong on the road, when at the same time you're getting increasingly restricted on how you drive/ride.
So now imagine buying a much cheaper bike offering the bare minimum, then tax and insurance cost as much as the bike itself within two years, does it make much sense to you?
And calling for Western quality standards at Chinese prices doesn't make much sense, it is a self defeating argument, "I want cheap bikes, but not Chinese one, I want quality cheap bikes".
Yeah, but going back and forth between the US and Western Europe, European riders are superbly trained on well-maintained motorcycles. Here in the US where I live, a group ride is truly an adventure with the number of inexperienced riders on bikes of questionable reliability.
But you also don't want to give motorists free rein to drive and park everywhere for free. I live in the southern US, and all cities here have gradually become these tiny buildings surrounded by enormous roads and parking lots. Most of the surface area is devoted to parking. Only poor people walk or ride bicycles; the rest have enormous car loans. That's not a fiscally responsible and healthy society.
Not sure if you have ever heard of 'inflation'. New motorcycles are cheaper now than 20 years ago and have to have additional safety, emission controls plus all the tech.
A MT-09 sp new today is cheaper (inflation corrected) than a cbr600 in 2005.
I guess that this video was recorded a couple weeks ago, because honda just did exactly what you are suggesting with the cb 1000 hornet, this is the definition of a bike for the people
Yeah Honda is really well priced… cbr650r is under 10k for a very advanced inline 4
@@gibmeister5854 when it comes to value for money out of the Japanese honda is the last to come in mind, especially with their cbrs, but with their hornet 750 they undercut all of their competition and with the new 1000 there isn't any competition nowhere close this price range, its like 1.5k cheaper than an mt09
Even with the larger bikes, I only see Honda with the CB 750 as below 8k Euro or 7k GBP as an outlier in the market.
They want to sell the new 1000 Hornet at around 10k Euros... wich is incredible for a 1000cc inline 4.
But with Euro 5 or upcoming Euro 6 emissions, and the engine development that is requiered and needs to be payed for, I doubt you will ever see extremely cheap bikes again.
On the other hand, sub 10k to get a new, great riding bike with up to 100hp is still good value in my opinion.
But also still too steep for me. So I got myself a '87 CBR 600F1 and a '07 VFR 800 to have fun with. For about half the money I would pay for a Hornet 750.
After having test - ridden many (a few dozens) new bikes, I can confidently say: None stirr up the same emotions like my 80s CBR or the VTEC V4 symphony of the VFR. (And no, I did not ride a RSV4 or similar, since I want a sports tourer, not a Racer).
The only one that really made me say: I WANT THAT NOW was the H2. Wich is 25k€.... So no...
i really want a Used FZ6 S2 for cheaper then you can get a ninja 500, not only that all my roads here are 70+ mph with people often doing 100+ here in texas, so a 250 or 125 is not gunna cut it! After 5-8k USD id rather just buy a second car/truck!!!!!! Dealers are asking crazy prices for anything bigger then a 300 here. Another one i want is a Honda monkey and that little shit is 5-6K from dealers here! FOR A MONKEY, which would be nothing but a toy for the neighborhood and backroad here
Repping the Benelli 125CC chinese "finest" cheap bike it treated me okay. i Just passed my Das so i will be buying used next year!
Hornet 1000 2025 is under 10k tho?
Mt03 mt07 great bargains,and Abs is a eu mandate not a manufacturer choice
When vogu can drop a 900cc that's bursting with tech for less than 9k,
Maybe dropping tech to basic is not the problem, maybe they are just paying the brand name,
And yes vogu is Chinese, but look at the parts that are used on the bike, and look at who uses them parts on the more premium manufacturers,
10000 bike in 2000 is 18000 today with inflation
add on new tech and improvments, its not that different than what youd expect
Cost of housing is the deciding factor.
Not really.. Apart from the Superbikes which are homologation specials in real terms to go racing. Honda RC30, Yamaha OW01, Suzuki GSXR750R and the Ducati 851/888 were all over £10,000 back in the late 1980s and early 1990's. So a £25k bike now would have cost £10,400 in 1990. None of those bikes had the tech we have now and were very analogue bikes yet in real terms they are the same price now at they were in 1990. My Honda CBR600F2 back in 1993 cost me £6500 new and that would be the same as £13,600 now yet the Yamaha R7 which is a close equivalent in class and power to the CBR600 I had cost £8900 new. So NO bike prices have not actually gone up.. Our Volvo new was £53,000 and you may think this was some top of the range turbo charged rapid version when in reality it was just a Volvo XC60 base model with some optional extras the first owner had fitted to it.. So have the manufacturers actually forgot who buy their products or is it simply inflation and a dream of buying a modern good quality Japanese or European bike been tainted by the prices of the cheap Chinese and Indian brands? Would you buy a 1000cc CF Moto sports bike over your Kawasaki?? Probably not... But then you will moan at how much it cost.. A 250cc road bike when I was 17 cost about £900, YES I AM OLDER, but at the time the 250cc bike I was riding cost £12,000 new as it was a 250cc race bike being raced at club and national level. SO the road bike was over 12 times cheaper than the race version from the same brand and now we have world superbikes that have to be based on the road bikes being raced in a world championship yet it is not 12 times the cost even if you have like Kawasaki an RR version of the ZX10R. So they are NOT over priced, its just biking is now a leisure activity and not a daily used form of transport.
If people stop buying new bikes, then there will be no second hand bikes to buy in the future.
As for enjoyment then it depends on how you ride. If you ride slowly and not use the bike fully then even a cheap bike will be fine. But if you actually ride it hard and as it was designed then there is a massive difference between an older bike and a new bike. So your idea of a cut bike 1000cc bike with basic suspension and basic tyres... OK how safe would having north of 150bhp being put through tyres not really made to run that kind of power and be a long lasting harder rubber compound work? It will be dangerous if you don't expect owners to ride the bikes and used all of the power they are producing. Same with suspension too. If the bike is set up for the average customer whatever that is and not being able to be set up for lighter, heavier riders or riders that will want to make the bike work is not going to be safe for many of the riders who own those bikes or they have to spend thousands to make it work better for them when they could just buy a bike that suits them now..The other option is if you can't legally do over 70mph and a 650cc twin will easily out accelerate even a sporty saloon on the road and that bike will cost you £7600 and do over 55mpg, why buy a 1000cc bike?? You can't use the 1000cc bike it costs more to run, insure and buy for zero benefit.. Unless you are going to use it hard, break the law or do trackdays, ride in Germany then your point of an affordable 1000cc bike is pointless. Hell talking about suspension even my 155cc pit bike has fully adjustable forks, high and low speed compression damping, preload and rebound damping in the rear shock and it gets used fully. Would I look at buying a 1000cc bike with basic suspension?? NO not in a million years, I don't like the idea of being highsided off a bike again.. Been there, done that and not only ate the meal but still have the damage to show for it.. But then you don't ride quickly, know how to push a bike harder or know how to ride at anything beyond a fairly basic level from what I have seen.
Honda have stepped in with the new cb1000@ 9k or 10k for the sp version with fancy ohlins wangers.....
lets hope the chinese companies will push prices down, they are coming in with impressive bikes for their prices, especially cfmoto and voge
Who would buy a 3000 125 bike when you can get an actual classic and amazing bike for that price. Be it a an old Fireblade or any CB bike.
My brand new Honda was under $2k. You didn't mention it I think because you're defining bike improperly
Do not read the tone of this as acusatory, but 125cc motorcycles are sold more then 600cc motorcycles but not where you live. honda makes amazing 2-3000 dolor motorcycles in asian markets but they do not seell them to you because they do not fit with the band image in noth america. (aka. they can make you pay for the more expensive thing)
You want luxury even after Brexit when continental Europe stopped supporting luxury life in the UK. I live in Denmark (part of the EU) and we have several proper Japanese motorcycles cheaper than the Royal Enfield 350 models. It will happen in the UK too. When you can't afford cars anymore you will get cheaper motorcycles. Don't worry.
Two things I didn't know about you until today that we have in common - you play the drums and wear HRC branded stuff 😂
You can now get a new cb125f for just over £2600
Where? You could get one on discount under £3K from dealerships a couple of months ago but it was more than £2,600 and it's stopped now.
Look at the new hyabusa. New they are massivley over priced. £18k new, and they drop £5k to £6k in price after a couple of thousand miles... and the is from suzuki, who stand by bang for buck.
2005 cbr1000rr new was 11,300. 2025 cbr1000rr lists for 16,999, here un the US if your accounting for inflation the 2025 is cheaper.
U could get those bike In 05 less than 11 out the door in 05 so I disagree
Cars and bikes are luxury items though 🤷We don't need cars we don't need bikes yes it makes life easier having one but you can always walk to work or catch a bus. Its why a lot of people are struggling as they prioritize the ownership of a car or bike and most end up spending more than they need to for a car or bike for most its the second biggest purchase they'll make in their life. Insurance is becoming crippling, police don't care about thefts and a lot more people don't have expendable money to buy that new bike they want so that's why most of these dealers are now in hot water as they cant shift them as the people who used to buy them don't have the money and the risk of theft is far greater so most don't want the hassle. Oh and drivers of cars are getting worse and police want to catch you speeding more now than ever so that's another factor. The death of motorcycles in the UK wont be from one key factor but an accumulation of many smaller ones and the governments not helping with its laws with ulez and net zero.
For me i wanted a bike because its cheaper to own than a car and you can filter so I'm not sat in traffic everyday for hours, car ownership used to be something i really wanted but as I've gotten older i realized its just one big financial black hole and it will just swallow your hard earned money. Sadly it seems bikes are heading in the same direction as I've only just recently got on 2 wheels so my first year of owning a bike has cost me about £8000 yes its down to some mistakes I've made but you can see why a lot of people would just not bother with a bike and just get a car
£165 CBT
£600 bike riding gear
£3300 new Chinese bike 125cc (Sym JET X)
£1100 insurance TPFT (first car Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 only cost £700 fully comp)
£350 better tires ( Chinese tires was like riding on ice in wet)
£120 first service ( 600 mile service)
£2400 better bike ( first bike wasn't the best) new bike was £4000 but got £1600 back on trade in i went Honda this time a Forza 125cc 22 plate low miles
£160 insurance change over
Bikes are not expensive in fact they on average have got cheaper over time when accounting for inflation.
People are just broke, wages have not gone up.
Cracking deals? I've been looking at cfmoto. The ibex 450, 675ss, 800nx.
you think motos are pricey, try 15000 dollar bicycles😂