How Much Speed Does $12,000 Buy? We Find Out! 2020 Honda Civic Type R vs. Civic Si Hot or Not
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
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( www.TFLcar.com ) The 2020 Honda Civic Type R has gotten a refresh to make it tighter, sharper and more agile than ever, but is its performance really worth nearly $12,000 more than the "mild" Civic Si? They're both fun cars, but in this Hot or Not video we're going to see exactly how much of a difference the Type R's performance upgrades make on the track.
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#Honda #Civic #TypeR - Авто та транспорт
Love the videos with the Stig! Thanks TFL
Dude, the real stig?!!
Andre put all his emotions into shifting that Si 😂
Mmmmm
Mm
M
M
@Potato mm
Good video. The Type R is a great car, but at almost $40 grand delivered, that CIVIC cannot be called a bargain. For my money, I'd do the SI with a set of springs, rear anti-roll bar, tune, and set of high-performance tires. Call it $1,700 on top of the SI sticker and I'd be a happy camper. I am sooooo glad that Honda made the Type R, brought it to the US, and proved that front-drive can be all you need.
Finally Someone knows something about car tuning and racing. Even the hfp civic si comes with the type r dampers and that's still a bargain. The type r comes with very good Continental sport contact 6 which are amongst the best but they don't last long just like formula 1 tires lol The si does not unfortunately. Both cars are great not just the type R.
civic type r is the fastest front wheel drive in the world and one of the most beautiful cars runs up to 272km/h
Yeah, for 10k more, you can just go and get yourself a Corvette Stingray. That thing smashed alot for 55k.
i’m new to cars, how do people get customizations like this? do you not just get the car the way it is? especially if they don’t have a lot to spare?
That's the route I went. About 1k in suspension and the KTuner & it's a great car. I have all the standard bolt-ons sitting in my living room (acquired over the last year) now I just gotta get em installed
Type R definitely worth it
Upgraded engine - $3k
Brembo brakes - $2k
Upgraded shocks,springs -$1.5k
Suspension parts -$1.5k
Bucket seats -$1.5k
Aero/body kits - $2k
Upgraded chassis - $??
Worth it, but getting it at MSRP is a different story
what is MSRP?
@@aquafine.2250 Manufacturer Suggested Retail Pricing
@@aquafine.2250impossible to find
The Si wasn't in sport mode on the track. He commented it felt too soft, well go figure...
It was
jo gonz no I don’t think it was. The dash was not lit up red. You can tell because the light comes on when he redlines. That light is always on when in sport mode and flashes when red lining. I have a 2019
@@Smavidayy well ill look at it again,but i have the 2020 model,and it's only on the 2020 si(and type r) that Adaptive Sound Control is "equipped" you can hear the "fake engine sound" when he's driving
@@Smavidayy Thanks for the validation David!
@@jogonz5833 that doesnt mean its in sport mode. Sport mode makes it all light up red, stiffen suspension, has harder steering and makes more power from the engine. The adaptive engine noise is separate from that .
This is the type of content we want
I never knew how small the displacement was I thought it was a 2.0. Very impressive
As an si owner i figured out to go as fast as possible in the si. You gotta do these 3 things.
1. Put it in sport more. The suspension will help a little.
2. Shift early. Like 5500-6000rpms, redlining the car will slow it up alot due to the lower top end power vs its vtec siblings.
3. When shifting do not take your foot off the throttle pedal, full throttle all the time so the turbo doesnt drop boost (I dont recommend doing this often)
I couldn't do it man. I owned one for 2 weeks and made the trade to the Accord 2.0T. I had a 2014 Civic Si that was Supercharged and had 330whp and when I bought the new Si it just had NO life. The Accord with just an intake and tune Is almost on par with my Supercharged Si. Think they should have really used a bigger engine in the Si personally because all of us Honda guys hated going from a K20-24 to a 1.5L non vtec turbo for just a small amount of torque and a tad quicker car. honestly believe it should have came with at least 230-240hp in the Si and 200hp in the standard 10th gen. But thats just my opinion.
@@dy2str33t-king5 My biggest worry with the Accord 2.0T is the handling and lack of suspension upgrades over the Si, how did the Accord feel in comparison? The Si feels incredibly tight and firm in handling and I love the shifter. How is the shifter in the Accord? Would love to know your thoughts.
@@worldofz00 Honestly the shifter feel phenomenal. But I think that's a Honda thing in general. The suspension options are a lot bigger than when I first got my Accord. I was a beta tester for Hondata and had the first tuned 2.0T in the States. Just running a preset tune really wakes these cars up, the difference is insane. Also was the first person to havethe new Accord lowered on 16-18 Civic Hatch springs. Did this before any suspension options were available. It's absolutley slammed but the ride is amazing still. I also love the way it handles. I put a wider wheel and tire setup on it and i throw it through corners with ease and confidence. My 2014 Civic Si had EVERY part of the suspension modded and I'd say this is still almost on par with that car. I test drove a 1.5T Accord sport the also before I purchased this and to me it just didn't feel as good. Not sure if they made the springs stiffer in the 2.0T to handle the added weight or not but it felt better right out of the box than the 1.5. Hope some of this helps a little.
@@dy2str33t-king5 Thank you, I will definitely have to give a 2.0T a test drive. Think I'll be driving a 10AT first since that's readily available here.
@@dy2str33t-king5 Dy2 Str33t-King c'mon man, it's not really fair to compare a stock 10th gen si to a supercharged 2014 si with supporting mods.
Of course its gonna feel lack luster compared to that. You could have gotten a drop in turbo for $1600 and gotten 290-300whp, ~290wtq. 330-345whp, 320-330wtq with flex fuel.
Or just get a flex fuel kit for $500 with an off the shelf tsp stage 2 tune and it would make near 270whp and 327wtq with stock parts. Which really wakes this car up. And all these options have base maps available. No custom tune needed to take advantage of that drop in turbo and flex fuel.
Yeah that 2.0T is gonna make a bit more power but you also have to consider it weighs about 400-450 pounds more.
With a custom tune and bolt ons, that 2.0T is only making about 290whp and 340wtq. 310-320whp, 350-360wtq. Hardly enough to compensate for that added weight compared to SI with just an off the shelf tune and flex fuel
This is exactly the type of content I wanna see. When I saw the title I was so excited
Either way, even with it being a Honda, Civics are always beautiful. Makes me want a Type R now.
6:35 Noooooooo! Monicaaaaa!
Epic 😂
Great video 👍
How about Civic Si vs Civic Sport vs Acura ILX
Thanks for the great review! The previous Si rims look might fine.
Very awesome! I knew they both would be hot. They’re amazing machines for an affordable price.
Am I mistaken, or did he have sport off on the Si? If so, the cars ROLE way worse .. Also, Id like to see this done with the HFP suspension package.. or am I missing that too?
Rob y4h3ll wouldn’t be a 12k difference then
Have this car in blue, sport sharpens response, it's fun but not especially fast
Love this video! Btw just noticed that Hot or Not Playlist is showing Private, figured you should know cannot watch it.
Great video. Paul’s book, Optimum Drive, is a great read.
The Hand at the finish line always gives a more accurate lap time!!
Great videos guys!
Awesome video as usual guys
The Si is good enough for most drivers but the Type R is something special Nice content
This is a such an accurate comment...I own a 2014 civic Si and extremely happy with it, I do aspire to own a 2017+ Type R someday. However I find that that the Si is really enough for city driving. It is really fun to drive.
Yup I feel the same. Type R is definitely great for the track and those who want to track the car. Windy roads would be superb too. But the Si works fairly fine for windy roads as well, and city/street driving, like those spirited back roads driving. Def enough to have a ton if fun. Plus the coupe is a pretty nice design imo :p
@@animalpeeps I own a 2020 coupe. The car is super fun to drive. Mods don’t hurt the experience either. The aftermarket is huge
@@didafm I got a 2013 si sedan. Love my k24
I’m starting off with a Si and build up more credit for a type r in 5 years
I just bought me a 2020 si and I love it. I would have liked the Type R but the dealership would have had to order it and really for another like 12 grand I can settle for the si with the 1.5L Turbo with 205 HP. I mean the Brembo brakes and the 2L engine and an extra 100 hp and the more race oriented config of the Type R do make it cool and stand out for sure but I can upgrade the si later on down the road with Brembos or or other racing brakes and put some other after market preformance stuff on it if I want to push it a bit more. If your not gonna track the car anyway really not needed and the si is awesome if you just wanna go blasting around in the back roads or the country or take a cruise down PCH or just jet around town looking sporty. The one feature I wish the si had that the Type R does have is the auto rev matching for down shifts. If you are not good on the heel toe action or quick with the pedals to blip the throttle you can get some herkey jerkey down shifts.
Great video!
God that electronic engine noise sounds terrible lol
Sounds like playing Grand Turismo....on PS1 lol.
@@KT_One 😂
I was thinking. What the heck is that friggin spaceship noise?
I unplugged it lol
where?
Good job guys it was spot on!
wow! might just be me, but felt good to see Andre again!
The si is basically as fast as the Integra R
Yup also as the ep3 type r only thing is that the si has better suspension then both of them. But that vtec sound is hard to pass on
Would have loved to see you switch drivers for another drag race and put "the stig" in the SI to see how quick(er) he is and whether he could keep up with the type R. Shifting and feel for the launch plays a huge role. Sometimes the driver capabilities are too far apart (not saying here) and we're observing whose the better driver rather which is the faster car.
Dude it's an 1/8 mile track, quarter would have been even worse for the si.
M Sal89
People will say anything to justify why the Si is better than the R😂
Is there any way we could get a video comparing the 2020 Civic SI to the 2020 86/BRZ? Looking to sell my pos Miata and I haven’t really seen to many people put those cars against each other
I'm a huge fan of the Honda Civic Type R! Even in my online racing (gaming) the Civic Type - R is one of my fav cars to race in.
Love the Type R motor and the Si coupes looks! They need to merge! 12000$ for roughly 100 more hp or 120$ per 1 hp. I will pass on the Type R bought the Si and love its power and 38mpg hwy for and affordable 24000$ with lower insurance rates!
For my money, I would buy an hatchback SiR awd with the detune 2.0 from the accord! Unfortunatly honda still miss the bulleye again!
I bought a new blue si I love it for being fun and a useful affordable option
Is second gear still crunchy!
? Version one had a problem with second gear.
Could we please have this same comparison with the Veloster R Spec and N? Would be interesting to see where they land on the board.
You guys should do for Honda S2000 AP1 vs AP2 vs CR!
This is the exact question I have right now!!
i was in highway driving fk8r with my squad try race rr and a45s 2018,low end gear i was behind a little but in fourt and fifth gear i keep distance than those 2.i would say rolling race better at type r in manual hey hey.They both dct tho.
Andre's facial expressions are priceless.
it would be nice if the price of each car is also listed on thr tfl leaderboard...so people will see which cars have more performance/$
How are you going to run both cars against each other without sport mode on in the Si at least??
6:34. That's the same look on my face when I'm driving around the streets in my GTI.
Don’t know of any dealership selling Type R’s for actual MSRP. More like $50K Type R.
That's why when I see someone with one I laugh because I know they got ripped off. Great car but the mrsp is no joke
@@Stormtrooper-oc4vn is the same way with a lot of cars lately. The whole chip shortage thing affected supply like crazy. I was looking at an sti in December for 38k. Used ones are now going for closer to 45
@@Catgat37 now it is but with the type r it began wayyy before this entire mess that's why it a bit different.
Wow! That Si shaved off a second and a half around that tiny track, thats huge! I think it came down to the traction control being completely turned off (I could see it blinking) as opposed to the 2017 Si only being partially turned off.
Also maybe tires?
@@mze7101 The 2017 Si had Goodyear F1 Summer tires. Both had summer tires
@@NaijaBull wait the continental are all seasons look up dws 06 those are it.
Thank you for the amazing content TFL! Even in these uncertain times! #TFLcar
I love how the Stig knows his shig when talking about cars. Very refreshing.
The Si is a really good performer for the money. There is a lot of good driving fun to be had with the Si BUT I am so glad Honda did not stop there and gave us the Type R. I LOVE my Type R. A $12,000 difference is no joke but the Type R is worth every penny. It took some time for me to be in a position to actually get a Type R and to be honest, I am glad it was not my first car. We have to give Honda credit and our business for making fun cars at all price points and for saving the manual. Thanks for this match up.
How much was the mark up?
@@robertg2046 The sticker for my 2019 CTR was $37,000 and we got it for $38,000. I have no complaints especially since the dealer treated us very, very well and even sent a driver to pick us up over an hour away. On top of that I just recently saw a 2020 CTR sell for $12,000 over sticker at the Honda dealer down the street from me. Also before our 2019 CTR we even considered a used 2018 CTR for $34,000 with 16,000 miles on it. We definitely were blessed with our 2019 CTR.
@@StandingUpForBetter I purchased my 2018 SI for 25,500. Bought hondata for 700$, got dyno tuned for 600$ I make over 250wtq on just the conservative +6 psi tune. My tuner said my clutch is holding back for the +9psi tune. Fx350 clutch plus install, 2600$, then adding +9 tune on dyno 600$ Puts me at over 320wtq and 300whp. 30,000$ i am faster than a type r and stay under the radar. The wing on the R can be seen by cops a mile away. I would personally never pay extra for a badge.
@@19Herofade92 Enjoy your car. I did not pay just for the badge. I paid for the performance and for the legacy of the Type R. This is one car I am not going to mod but keep stock for as long as I have it which will be for a very long time.
Just get a corvette, it’s a better car experience.
the 8th gen si was the last real upgrade worthy in power. we need a back to core a little from honda for the next si. a real motor/exhaust vtec and leave the turbo option to the type r and let us do the turbo on our si. thanks 😁
A civic SI always had that nostalgia. Until honda brought back the Type R
So.. people in the comment section know more than the STIG himself!! Ok!!
It ain’t a tight car if it ain’t a Type-R
Ya thats most people always think they know everything
The Evo MR and X6 M really stand out on that list 😳😏
I love these base model vs sport model videos!
Neither of these are base models. Think of it more like the bmw M package compared to an actual M car
@@thepurist7160 I know what they are
@@thisisntsergio1352 then you're just an idiot
I actually have a Red 2020 Type R... I feel that Under steer too! But I love it. Every Day driver. Only thing I don't like is I drive it in Norther Ohio and that is soooo bad with the dang roads. But, it's all good. Wouldn't trade it for anything, will have this car until I can't drive it anymore.
The test driver could sip a hot coffee while driving... very nice!
I have the 2020 touring sport in sonic grey..before i had a 17 ext ...cloned to an si
Have you guys tested the Mazda-3 with 185hp
*@The Fast Lane Car* the new civic TypeR 2020 (US) still only has 306 hp? the TypeR 2017 (EU), and the TypeR 2020 (EU), has 320 HP
I just noticed by the dash that at 9:21 you have the Type-R in sport mode vs +R mode. Any reason for that?
Only reason I could think of is because the si only has sport? Idk
@@ScottHH he didnt even put the si in sport mode which is stranger....
because to skew the video for the reaction they want the public to have. not for how the cars really are.
Great video! Also, does anyone know what song is playing during: 8:48?
I guess you get the Type R if you don't want to do aftermarket bolt on work. Just bought a '18 Si because I got online and figured out that I could get close to Type R performance for around $8,000. So saving $3,000 (without considering that most of the Type Rs I've seen re marked up to almost double the price of an Si). Just have to not be afraid to work on the car, or have good car mechanic friends.
Ya but then tune my R and upgrad wheels and other things and I'm just as farther ahead as before we started lol
It's surprising how close the drag race was.
Honda engine + Honda manual transmission + Honda chassis/suspension tuning=automotive magic. Strange how front wheel drive can be driven hard and perform well. But they managed to do it. All that history with the front wheel drive Prelude and now this. Glad to see a Honda continuing some link to its motorcycle company roots.
Looked like the Type R was real soft from the takeoff on the lap. Could be .25- or more of a second faster there. Great video!
He seemed to drive it poorly all round; not in stiffest setting, poor launch - don’t understand why🤔
@@CJax749 They're touchy to take off in. The track control really cuts the balls off to keep he tires from spinning.
if you time yourself 3 times on the track you'll get 3 different times and come tomorrow you'll become faster so not really a good comperson doing it once do 3 times and take the average that would be more fair.
You should have them go against the Accord sport lol watch it Walk the type-r
I wish you would do a stage 2 mk7 GTI vs a Civic trype R.
Actually it’s not a $12,000 difference. I’ve seen the Type R marked up as much as $12,000 by the dealer, so it’s actually more like a $24,000 difference. You can buy 2 SI’s for the price of 1 Type R. Thanks for the review.
I’ve been locking and they are no longer being marked up. They are holding used value well.
Derek Walls WOW that’s not that case in Illinois, I was just looking the past few weeks and the dealers are not budging, good for you !!
I agree with that assessment
Umm your wrong. Maybe look a little harder. Got my Type R for 38k in 2019.
I would like to see them run the SI again with sport mode on and traction control turned all the way off, it does make a difference.
The cars were run with stability and traction controls off and in their most aggressive settings for suspension and throttle response?
No. The si was not in sport mode during the first lap time section, as shown at 3:27. When in sport mode, it lights up red in the dash... and of course the suspension would have been more stiff with better throttle response. At 9:21 you can see that the lights are on in the Type R. I guess they just wanted to have it be a bit slightly more of a difference. I own a 2020 si and while it’s no type r, I definitely feel a difference in throttle and stiffness when driving aggressively.
Darryl Dorival yea the Si would have shaved off a couple of a tenth of seconds
@@darryldactylWR Same.
Also add the 10k mark up for the type r dealers charge
Really surprised you've not tested the I30 N?
I have a 2021 type R i love it. and im not a track guy.
The 2020 Type R was slower because the track looked very dirty, and dirty equals slippery.
Is the si same as the RS civic
You should make a video on trying to get a new type R for msrp.......🤯
I got mine for msrp
@@themadmachinist8637 maybe 3 years ago
American problems
Reason why I didn't get a type r . 10,000 over MSRP that's bull crap .honda sucks
How come I do not see a Nissan GTR on this list. Great video.
The Civic Type R wasn’t on +R Mode, and the SI wasn’t in Sport Mode.
What car should I get if I want something as fast as the Honda Civic Type R, but don't want all the noise and want an automatic transmission?
Honda Accord. An SUV. A MINIVAN
Let’s see the SI with an e85 high boost ecu reflash , vs the R stock.
Oh yeah for sure
Is it possible to get rid of that beep while it revs?
Yes
For 2020, Honda probably dialed in more understeer cause weekend amateurs can't be trusted to keep it on the track and re-adjusting strut tower would easily fix excessive understeer. Given my 6MT K20C2 is almost 1/3 of the price and 90 percent as fun (compared to Type-R weapon), hopefully for 2022, Honda keeps the NA setup and makes it even lighter (more fun). Si might be a bit quicker, but I don't think it's as fun as base Civic on the racetrack.
Please do a veloster N around this track.
we need to get one, I have heard great things!
I’d rather build the SI for that extra $12K price tag hatchback looks like crap
That's why I got the Si instead of the CTR. That hatch looks terrible. I wish the R would have come in a coupé configuration.
the hatch is very useful. Cargo space is awesome.
the Si also looks ugly as hell. look at that HDMI plug exhaust and the frog ass rear. not even close to good looking and the sales figures show it.
@@twrcrew8852 stfu.
@@twrcrew8852 LOL
Both laps on both cars weren’t on their sportiest mode....
I know; proper amateur
full sport modes (+R on the Type R and Sport on the Si) with all electronic nannies off on both cars (which not easy BTW!) so I'm not sure what you're compiling about?
Paul Gerrard
Type R mode isn’t on or the dial would be red and there’d be a warning on the the screen if traction was turned fully off
This is done by putting R mode on and holding traction - entering track mode.
I’d know I own one 👍
@@CJax749 you actually get a fast flashing SC light when it's all off. It was flashing on both cars for the hot lap.
@@CJax749 check 3:27 for the Si and 9:21 for the Type R. If you look closely you can see the flashing SC light on both showing the system is fully defeated (not just the soft defeat of holding the button down). It's a total pain to do and took a few tries with each car but we got it on both.
I had to pause it when it showed the dash of the Si and hmm he didn’t have it in sport mod turbo kicks in harder and the suspension gets stiffer
It’s literally comparing a highschool football athlete and an nfl player…… but still good video it’s good to see the si does have some meat against the type r……. About 3 car lengths on the drag race so that’s good with 100 hp difference
Andrea you should use the skoda!
That's a lot of performance for $26k
@Bryce Czirr You mean *faster* right? I'd skip the VW since it's built in Mexico (low quality built) I prefer a new car with a valid warranty than a used one, especially if it was abused by previous owner/owners...faster in a straight line doesn't always mean better.
I like jdm but even I would take the gti just because its small and looks better than this abomination with easy upgrade packages, however if new isnt in criteria, I'd rather take an old type R integra or eg civic and build it to be more capable than these new complex boats.
@@kemalkeza6795 you can have any car to build and it will be better. They are talking about stock. For the price thats insanely good. Also a type r integra cost much more now and to find a good one .....good luck
Id love a Type R but damn....I always get patrol following me in my mediocre "19 sport, driving 5 above the speed limit.
I'm saving money to do a type R swap when I get a si coupe
I beat the civic SI all the time at races but I've ran a type R and drove 3 at carvana when I worked there and we stayed side by side given I make 305 and it makes 302 and I weigh 2600 pounds my point is there is a huge difference but the SI looks better less juvenile.
Re: rear brakes, if you do a lot of spirited canyon or track driving, you will go through rear pads very quickly. I've gone through the rears in about 5-7K miles. This is due to the vehicle's brake biased torque vectoring Agile Handling Assist.
Mine didn't last too long either.
So brakes around the same time you do tires lol?
Should put a 35th anniversary GLI on the track and see how that stacks up.
What would be interesting is a 4 door si vs a sport hatch manual
i wonder how pounded that press type r lsd is and how that might be contributing to the inside tire spinning to hard?
Pounded? It's practically a new car, the LSD should fine. At least I'd hope so.
Cali idk these press cars get beat to hell and back.
He said “no way” like he didn’t know he was going to get beat
I have both the SI and the Type R... sorry but it’s night and day with these two... Type R all the way!
Does the SI have the performance package??
Performance package adds zero hp. And still would hold a candle
The non vented rear brakes does send a message about the construction of the car. We didn't waste money here. It's relatively cheap for a performance car, but it's intelligently made so we spent the money where it matters.
What as the 0-60 for both of them?
slow and slower
I think the answer is the Veloster N performance package.
@Sergio Aguirre Honda has oil dilution issues-gas into the oil.