And this is exactly why I don't follow tier lists that faithfully. Sometimes a character just needs the right player to play them to unleash their true potential.
According to Arslan Ash he's actually a good counter-pick against certain characters. He plays a lot of Zafina for instance, and feels Zafina struggles in that match-up.
She is my main and she is shit and I enjoy torturing myself. The fact that you can punish her EX moves on block is the biggest joke. You are using meter for gods sake...
I think Frame already covered a lot what's good about Eliza for this season, even on that breakdown video with Blasted Salami. But yeah, still waiting he'd comment lol
No she isn't, TMM is a notorious Eliza shitter, so it's a perfect opportunity for him to jump on the bandwagon and maybe get her nerfed after the one objective buff she got in ages. She's getting shat on as much as usual, only now more people are on the bandwagon that she's OP and to nerf her.
@@user-pv1nl4qp1g A bit late but the way he hates her to death is kinda irrational & weird, thanks to the hate bandwagon she got nerfed again during Season 4 when she didn't need it at all
For real, I would have played Eliza much sooner if I knew she was good. She gets a safe 10 frame crouching mid punish that does 102 damage on wall stages. That's broken af. Eliza is almost pre nerf Leroy with meter
I don't play Eliza but when i said Eliza has high exicution people were just laughing at me like a moron. Turns out i was right again as usual as people have opinions without doing any kind of research. :)
Me too, my friend even said she's "easy", that's she's not as hard as Akuma. Yeah, sure, doing instant divekicks is much harder than doing Akuma's cancels
@@Jack_Mercer I play a character with required tiger knees in almost every 2d game I play so Eliza is pretty easy to me. Even without tiger knees she has pretty lenient divekick combos. She's way easier than akuma execution wise, regardless
i do play her, and you really dont need iDK combos, especially since she got new, slightly less optimal combos in s3 that dont even use it. shes definitely stronger than people think, but definitely not top 5. iDK outside of combos is still useful and, in my opinion, not hard at all.
@@Jack_Mercer i think she is easy because i play 2d game before someone like lee and bryan taunt is stupid hard for me while 2d is just basically muscle memory
@@nevermore013 Correct me if i'm wrong, but your comment is implying that Chanel making i tto Grand Finals is in some way possible evidence that Eliza is as TMM says, as I mentioned Panda winning grand finals. A good, albeit common, argument.
@@nevermore013 if you're evidence of Eliza being pretty good is grand finals then kuma winning should be stronger evidence for him being good, even better than Eliza.
J T you could argue that chanel has been more consistent with his placing using Eliza, rangchu won the finals but other then that has not been nearly as consistent using panda. that could also mean that not knowing the matchup against panda could play a big role in his short success
Nah she's still not very good. That doesn't mean she's unusable. She just lacks in too many areas to ever be considered top tier. She has an extremely hard time once you know her moves. Most people don't but I do since my roommate has played her since the games release
@@21kHzBANK21kHZ we all have eyes and frame data, I think it is a shame that most people just follow what streamers or top players say like sheep. Like Akuma day 1 came out deleting healthbars. Later most streamers thought that he waz not viable for some reason? And people followed that until Awais Honey opened their eyes again? Word... Eliza is def not bottom tier, never was she, but now everybody act like she is top? No. She is okey. She has power, but def there are way better characters than her, 2D and 3D.
Eliza player here. Here are some tips to counter her: - b1,2,4 is also easily steppable to the right (or left with proper timing) for a full launch - Dive kick pressure is fake in the open. You can only input dk4 quickly from 1, d1, and d3, all of which are highs, lows, or special mids, which can all be negated by inputting a low parry. Instant dive kick will not hit in the open if you backdash after the first dive kick. At the wall, though, it's pretty insane, so be careful there. - ff4,2 into normal dark waves can be side stepped pretty easily to the left for a full launch. Also big MASKU tip, Kazuya f2 armours through all options she has from ff4,2, except for her super, but you can't get hit by it if you block ff4,2, not even if you're mashing buttons afterwards. You'll always auto-block it. Just a tip ;) - At the wall, if d1 is blocked, you can SSL to evade the dk4 and possibly wall splat. - Fun fact: If not delayed, there is a certain rhythm to the MG mix up where you are able to block the mixup every single time. If delayed, you can SS the mixup to both sides. Of course, it is still a true mixup. - You can float her out of her unblockable really easily. The animation takes over 50 frames and during all of those frames you can float her. There is also an audio cue you can use to float her even with your eyes closed(!). If it sounded like she sneezed, jab immediately, you'll float her out of it every single time. Same goes for her EX version, only this one is under 50 frames (but still over 40!). You may be caught off guard the first time since it is still pretty fast, but you shouldn't get hit by this move more than once during a set, ever. Some notes about your video: - I wouldn't mind a meter nerf. It's only fair she has the same meter build up ad the rest of the 2Ds. - No one wastes meter on a dark wave 2 that is going to be blocked 99% of the time, even if it does combo on hit at certain ranges - Hit confirming a dive kick is really hard and not something viable for 99% of players and if you miss it, you get launched. - Super from jab is also something 99% of players can't do. It's a really stupid input. Super from d1 is something which is possible to do. - Super is safe on block, yeah, but you waste all your meter, something Eliza relies on and Akuma and Geese do not, to put it in your own words. - Everyone techs dk3 on hit. I have almost never seen someone not rolling back and the few couple of times they didn't tech, I wasn't prepared for it, because it happens so seldom. Great video otherwise. It's nice to see you actually lab and play this character instead of dodging her. Can't wait for the next stream!
Someone needs to make a video about all these weaknesses. I found a lot of these out by fighting an eliza main and labbing against the character too many people are shit at this matchup when she has major weaknesses even in her cheap attacks
As an Eliza main I thought this video was great and fair. Happy to see TMM being able to enjoy some aspects of the character even though the visual design does not appeal to him the slightest.
I've never been a fan of her but absolutely never saw her as weak either. Shes always been a threat in my eyes with her capabilities with her meter, gimmicks, priority on ex moves etc just as it's always been with shoryuken type moves in their respective games. Being rooted in both street Fighter and Tekken as well as multiple 2d and 3d games for so many years, the execution is as difficult coming from that background. Glad people are catching up to her potential as they did with Akuma. I've never been a fan nor care much about "tiers." In the right hands, we've all seen the shittiest characters in terms of "tiers" be incredible and even win championships in various games. In the end, the results will always lie in the player over the character.
Awesome to see mainman actually take a proper look at eliza! A couple missed things: ch on d1 in to dp1 is a combo, so it launches. At the wall she can wallsplat people who stay on ground with d3 dp1. And the moonglide low launch only works if the ex divekick is fast or instant, not just the qcb input. Edit: it can work if they stay on the ground but is not guaranteed. Hoping for some more eliza content from mainman in future!
@@UltimateBallaPOM If im not mistaken the fastest you can get it out is 19f, notation: d,db,b,bu,u,uf,3+4 - thats the "instant version" a way to do it but slower would be uf,d,db,b, 3+4 and that can wary in the frames depending how fast you do the notation, can be even slower than d,db,b 3+4 since you can input it just before eliza would land again
@@UltimateBallaPOM just checked i seems that even the d,db,b 3+4 is guaranteed even tho it does not show hits as a combo with the low, the instant version is a true combo since after screw from ex divekick hit combo counter is at 3 i just assumed that there is a way to get out of it since it wasnt a true combo
Her dive kick frames change depending on how low you hit the opponent. For example, sometimes she is +16 frames on hit and her 16 frame move is guaranteed. The downside of this is that you need to have the execution.
And people with none of the skill these pros have, are hopping on the bandwagon fast as all hell. This community is more peer pressured than any other i've seen in recent memory.
People keep overhyping the Pakistanis. Outside of arslan I don't remember any of them doing anything. Ffs none of them made it to the twt top ten so how are they the best in the world, cause tmm said it?🤷♂️
Benny Spears Here before the pakistani fanboys destroy you. Heera Malik and Awais honey have done very well in pretty much every tournament they have attended. Pretty sure awais honey qualified for top 20 just by getting a few 1st place finishes too near the end of the year
Very interesting video indeed, but I think you're overstating how quickly she gains meter. I believe she only gains meter 25-30% faster than Akuma, which is not that much considering Akuma only needs 1 bar to launch from 10f jab and d3, while she needs 2 bars to do the same.
Kazumi, Geese, Akuma and now Eliza. Who will be the next revelation for the mighty Tekken scene? 99% of the playerbase is trash and have little to no idea about the game - this results in characters like Eliza going under the radar for so long. Suddenly some changes are made, a top player picks the character and NOW the character is from bottom 5 to top 5 because someone made her work. Who will be the next flavor of the month? Lee, Gigas? Maybe Lei or Anna? Find out in the next episode of Tekken 7.
Nerobianco feel free to elaborate because anyone that plays the game even semi-seriously is aware of the state of those 4 characters without top player's intervention.
@@DragoonCenten Elaborate about what? My first comment explains it well. People considered Eliza weak, even top players like Chanel. Arslan picked her and suddenly she is "strong".
I came into the game literally right before season 2 began. I wanted to learn her, but was so lost on playing a 2D character in a 3D environment I was unfamiliar with. I wanted to main Akuma too. But learned Tekken with Bob and Miguel, then went to Eliza as season 2 began. Mained her ever since and haven't looked back.
Always check multiple pro players tier lists and form your own opinion. Arslan has also said things like Lee is top 5 in the game, and Chanel has said that Eliza is bottom 5 in the game, so its hard to just look at a single persons tier list and follow it. It depends on how you use the character.
Eliza's divekick pressure can be backdashed AND jabbed. If You block (or parry) one time, She loses her turn Her moonglide mixup is completely seeable, *if you practice enough* you can block/punish any option she throws out 100% of the time.
True about the divekick pressure. The moonglide however mixup is not seeable. MG2 comes out in 14 frames and MG4 comes out in 18. It can be fuzzy guarded however if the Eliza player is not delaying the 2 option from it. In the open, you can walk the mixup in neutral most of the time if you're good enough, but from Oki, it's a guaranteed mixup.
Dark wave into ex on hit in (Range 2-3) 3 4 is a launcher F 4~ 3 into ex Micro divekick = natural combo but thanks for the video! Saw things I didn't know yet.
4:00 i don't know, among all female characters in game she looks the most interesting with her magic effects on attacks, moonglow, ex moves look incredible too.
This character is just underrated.. korean rate elizr bcus his frame rate bcus korean plays only pokes and punishment but if u maximize elize she can be a monster especially on the walls
She is super easy to play if you have 2D fighting game experience I have been saying for 3 years this characters top tier now it's finally coming out she has one of the highest win rates online
You gotta appreciate how much difficulty even an accomplished Geese player is having with basic bread-n-butter shit for Eliza. I could say more, but I won't. True moral of the story: 26:02
Took me longer than it should've to realize the frame data for Eliza was on the right, not on the left. Was sitting here like "What bad frames? Theses are better than Leroy frames right here."
Okay that counter hit dick jab into 1 dp2 only seems to work on Akuma. It doesn't work on Heihachi or Steve, idk about other characters but it's inconsistent at best. Edit: I've done some testing, it only works on small characters, for some reason
I am new and still a very below average player but I understand the fundamentals and a few days ago I was in your chat and asked why people were so torn between her placement in tier lists and the only reason people could give me was that she couldn't TOD people like geese and akuma with meter but I know that isn't why those characters destroy anyways
That is why those characters destroy lol. They get absolutely ABSURD damage off many low risk options. In akuma's case he can go for a 50/50 launcher and still be plus afterwards. Geese can parry you for over half health, and if he gets a ch on something like a ss3 or hits a raw b3,2 he gets absurd dmg. The reason people are torn on eliza is because she isn't as strong as akuma or geese, and unlike these 2 she can't play proper tekken as well. I semt this before I finished lol Things like her df1,2 being negative on hit. All of her lows being either seeable and launch punishable or very negative on hit (save for her mg4 which is very telegraphed, and her d3 into mg mix). Her pressure is impossible without walls so she can be turtled on large stages and infinite stages harder than probably any other character in the game. Even her mg4 which is a huge risk to use, only launches with meter and still doesn't get that much dmg and is steppable and launch punishable. Her frames on her regular attacks are horrible. Tmm in this video talked about her b4 into dp1 and ws1 into dp1. But unlike a lot of other character these attacka are launch punishable and not hit confirmable. Throwing these out is often a death sentence unless it is a punish. Going for her super after one of these attacks is possible to kave a safe launcher but it uses all of her resources to keep her at -7 where akuma can do the exact same thing but end up plus on block, only using one bar, with less execution than a double qcf. Geese has good tekken tools, Akuma has passable tekken tools and a WAY more useful meter. Eliza has far below avg tools and meter that only makes her a decent character. Imo she is the most balanced 2d character. I acknowledged that she has dumb shit but the cost of having that is being over reliant on meter and having shit tools. Problems the other characters don't have
BLITZ ? Well in akumas case he has basically a 10 frame launcher but even if he didn’t have the insane damage he’d still be above so many other just because his moveset
@@mfgeedorah479 yeah sorry I sent that response too early so I was editing it when you responded. Yeah akuma has a 10 frame launcher that is way more practical than eliza and he can more easily get into clean hit range on d3 using fadc and launch with one bar where eliza has to work her way in with terrible buttons and then go for a d3 that may get her killed if she isn't in range or if the opponent backdashes at the last second. Akuma is plus after his fadc cancels
BLITZ ? I was just sayin that’s what the chat was telling me acting like all that contributed to their success as characters were damage, which isn’t true
@@mfgeedorah479 yeah it definitely isn't just the dmg in akuma's case. Geese is mostly about the dmg tho lol. He has can play tekken and drop 2 bars to win a round
Yes she was underrated for so long. I think if they give her a good low she can easily join the S tier. Even awais honey has start playing her as akuma is not working right now in pakistan.
Without wall she’s honestly the worst, but with walls her pressure is crazy, also you didn’t mention if you catch a moon glide 4 at the wall you can get a guaranteed launch with d3 into dp1, which is another reason why her 50/50 is really good.
Wish that was more consistent though. For example: Against Kings you still have to be off-axis to her right for the DP1 to connect. You do have time to do a small sidestep after landing MG4 to account for this, but it's quite hard to do consistently. It might still just straight out not work on Fahk, but not too sure after his changes.
It's a shame so many people slept on her because she's really interesting from a gameplay perspective! I would love to see her return in the next Tekken game, and if not her then at least some of the cool ideas they gave to her
Its true that she is good. By the character itself in a non-pro level, she can carry you to Tekken God like Leroy, Akuma. Unlike other characters that you really need to master everything to be a Tekken God.
Always thought this character was wayyy underrated. Even without the obvious d3 at the wall shit, you can't even consistently punish her b12: you can wait for the 3rd hit and get your measly wr punish, but if she doesn't do it, you've missed your chance to punish the 2 hit version, or you can ss the 3rd hit, but if you ss and she doesnt do the 3rd hit, now you've missed your chance to punish again, and I think the punish for the first 2 is only 13f anyway. Way too crazy of a mind game for a pretty basic ch launcher
@@DragoonCenten i see a seson 2 breakdown withc is outdated..and not a full character review...i see old ass tekken 5 videos that have nothing to do with the new raven...and her being not popular is more reason we could use a good video on her...to show ppl the potential so they try the character
Moral of the story: Don’t take your eyes off underused characters.
Except Lars, he ain’t gonna improve
Poor Lars. Just when he was enjoying the sun in Season 2 they nerf hammered him
If Lars comes back in Tekken 8 with Heihachi's moustache grafted onto his foreskin or some shit like that, you're gonna have to eat those words.
There's still s4 so fingers crossed...
Imho keep Lars low tier. Remember how cancerous he was when he was actually good
Have Lars speak Swedish, he'd rise up a tier.
also give him some good move outside stances.
I can hear framewhisperer cackling like the war criminal he is
Leave miguel alone, he's suffered enough after his amputation
@Richard Pajooh So he Arn Anderson?
@@kenjinuma Hahaha I see what you did there 😂
@@onikageTK ayyyee
@Richard Pajooh miguel traitor
And this is exactly why I don't follow tier lists that faithfully. Sometimes a character just needs the right player to play them to unleash their true potential.
Basically waiting for the eyemusician for those characters
@@dubuious you mean waiting for the jon
Man I main Gigas and I destroy my father with him
Cough cough master raven cough cough
@@markpfeffer7487 so much characters that are under rated
2022
Gigas Is Stronger Than We Thought
actually Gigas is not weakest right now according to most of players
gigas actually has some stuff ngl
2022 Gigas: Gets a Hellsweep, Projectile, and Wavedash
ich laught loud! :D hope it comes true
According to Arslan Ash he's actually a good counter-pick against certain characters. He plays a lot of Zafina for instance, and feels Zafina struggles in that match-up.
He let the darkness consume him. 🧛🏻♀️
“stronger than we thought.” As if framewhisper didn’t know the whole time how good she was
Ain't like Chanel has bodied a whole bunch of people with her either👀... Though she requires the most execution as a character in my book
Well, Framewhisperer is saying she is shit all the time though
She is my main and she is shit and I enjoy torturing myself.
The fact that you can punish her EX moves on block is the biggest joke. You are using meter for gods sake...
Not sure if you're just joking, but Framewhisperer is doing his best to downplay her power lol
@@Carsu12 he has been downplaying Eliza all these time (while calling Akuma OP)
Shout-out to the Eliza players who played her before this "hype"
She was my first main
Only trust Eliza mains before season 3
She's the only character I play lol
Ive played her since before people have been overhyping her
Yessir 🔥
TMM 2020: "Is this character dlc? Then they're top tier by default"
I mean it do how it be
_Cries in AK_
Sad jaguar noises
Also, Senõr Gheist, Eliza was there with the console launch of the game. Pre-order bonus.
Became available later for people who hadnt pre-ordered
@@SoloKrypton True, but in the eyes of TMM she's a dlc character.
Currently waiting for Frame Whisperer to say something in the comments.
Currently waiting for @Fading Fire to say something in the comments
I think Frame already covered a lot what's good about Eliza for this season, even on that breakdown video with Blasted Salami. But yeah, still waiting he'd comment lol
He's gonna call her the weakest char in the game and say that she shares that spot with Kata, Miguel and Leo
Finally.. My girl is getting the love she deserves.
No she isn't, TMM is a notorious Eliza shitter, so it's a perfect opportunity for him to jump on the bandwagon and maybe get her nerfed after the one objective buff she got in ages. She's getting shat on as much as usual, only now more people are on the bandwagon that she's OP and to nerf her.
@@user-pv1nl4qp1g A bit late but the way he hates her to death is kinda irrational & weird, thanks to the hate bandwagon she got nerfed again during Season 4 when she didn't need it at all
Been playing Eliza for a while now. Damn shame that most of the community only listens to pro players.
It makes sense though if I listen to bad low level players that won’t help much
Megakin true, plus the pro players are the people that end up developing the skills necessary to play her at her true potential
For real, I would have played Eliza much sooner if I knew she was good. She gets a safe 10 frame crouching mid punish that does 102 damage on wall stages. That's broken af. Eliza is almost pre nerf Leroy with meter
@@mee091000 takes execution tho
"because if pro or youtube retard complain about it I will complain even more"
Yes Boys! We did it! I lived up to the point MainMan rethinks his Eliza placement.
I love Eliza's visuals imo. Her horns are very cool.
Only the horns?
@@bulkbuster3696 and her big heart
I prefer her no horns design.
@@blitheixgaming1289 yeah i love her growing heart too
Dweeb
Before Pakistan:
After Pakistan:
Pakistan dictates Tekken 😅🙃😏
I don't play Eliza but when i said Eliza has high exicution people were just laughing at me like a moron. Turns out i was right again as usual as people have opinions without doing any kind of research. :)
Me too, my friend even said she's "easy", that's she's not as hard as Akuma. Yeah, sure, doing instant divekicks is much harder than doing Akuma's cancels
@@Jack_Mercer I play a character with required tiger knees in almost every 2d game I play so Eliza is pretty easy to me. Even without tiger knees she has pretty lenient divekick combos. She's way easier than akuma execution wise, regardless
Literally instant dive kick lol, high execution
i do play her, and you really dont need iDK combos, especially since she got new, slightly less optimal combos in s3 that dont even use it. shes definitely stronger than people think, but definitely not top 5. iDK outside of combos is still useful and, in my opinion, not hard at all.
@@Jack_Mercer i think she is easy because i play 2d game before someone like lee and bryan taunt is stupid hard for me while 2d is just basically muscle memory
I've been playing Eliza since the start. She's always been slept on sadly
Her looks and gives off a very uninteresting
im not sure if that was meant to be a pun or not
Definitely not in season 1, probably why she got nerfed afterwards.
Slept 🙂
@@alexandervang2017 Yeah you right
Chanel is one of the players who used her since knee returned to the scene and made it to the grand finals.
So did Panda, what's your point.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 i don't see any connection of your comment to mine? what are you talking about?
@@nevermore013 Correct me if i'm wrong, but your comment is implying that Chanel making i tto Grand Finals is in some way possible evidence that Eliza is as TMM says, as I mentioned Panda winning grand finals. A good, albeit common, argument.
@@nevermore013 if you're evidence of Eliza being pretty good is grand finals then kuma winning should be stronger evidence for him being good, even better than Eliza.
J T you could argue that chanel has been more consistent with his placing using Eliza, rangchu won the finals but other then that has not been nearly as consistent using panda. that could also mean that not knowing the matchup against panda could play a big role in his short success
I hope this is going to skyrocket her character usage. She needs to be a Tekken staple solely for featuring a 2D gameplay style
I concur.
Koreans: This character sucks
Everyone: I guess we agree
Pakistan Players: Hold my beer
Nah she's still not very good. That doesn't mean she's unusable. She just lacks in too many areas to ever be considered top tier. She has an extremely hard time once you know her moves. Most people don't but I do since my roommate has played her since the games release
we dont drink bear. we drink tea which in urdu called chai. so say hold my chai XD
Waiting for the day one of the Pakistanis pick up Armor King and everyone realizes he's top tier or something XD Maybe in Tekken 8.
He's actually really good, don't know why he's so underrated. Ofc no one will listen until a top level player says it.
@@21kHzBANK21kHZ we all have eyes and frame data, I think it is a shame that most people just follow what streamers or top players say like sheep. Like Akuma day 1 came out deleting healthbars. Later most streamers thought that he waz not viable for some reason? And people followed that until Awais Honey opened their eyes again? Word...
Eliza is def not bottom tier, never was she, but now everybody act like she is top? No. She is okey. She has power, but def there are way better characters than her, 2D and 3D.
@Sarincrow you really think I'm gonna read this university acceptance letter? 20 words or less
Fun fact: She’s the reason I bought my fight stick.
Lmao same
I actually better on keyboard then stick. Constant Z motions for b4 dp is killing the deal
Eliza player here.
Here are some tips to counter her:
- b1,2,4 is also easily steppable to the right (or left with proper timing) for a full launch
- Dive kick pressure is fake in the open. You can only input dk4 quickly from 1, d1, and d3, all of which are highs, lows, or special mids, which can all be negated by inputting a low parry. Instant dive kick will not hit in the open if you backdash after the first dive kick. At the wall, though, it's pretty insane, so be careful there.
- ff4,2 into normal dark waves can be side stepped pretty easily to the left for a full launch. Also big MASKU tip, Kazuya f2 armours through all options she has from ff4,2, except for her super, but you can't get hit by it if you block ff4,2, not even if you're mashing buttons afterwards. You'll always auto-block it. Just a tip ;)
- At the wall, if d1 is blocked, you can SSL to evade the dk4 and possibly wall splat.
- Fun fact: If not delayed, there is a certain rhythm to the MG mix up where you are able to block the mixup every single time. If delayed, you can SS the mixup to both sides. Of course, it is still a true mixup.
- You can float her out of her unblockable really easily. The animation takes over 50 frames and during all of those frames you can float her. There is also an audio cue you can use to float her even with your eyes closed(!). If it sounded like she sneezed, jab immediately, you'll float her out of it every single time. Same goes for her EX version, only this one is under 50 frames (but still over 40!). You may be caught off guard the first time since it is still pretty fast, but you shouldn't get hit by this move more than once during a set, ever.
Some notes about your video:
- I wouldn't mind a meter nerf. It's only fair she has the same meter build up ad the rest of the 2Ds.
- No one wastes meter on a dark wave 2 that is going to be blocked 99% of the time, even if it does combo on hit at certain ranges
- Hit confirming a dive kick is really hard and not something viable for 99% of players and if you miss it, you get launched.
- Super from jab is also something 99% of players can't do. It's a really stupid input. Super from d1 is something which is possible to do.
- Super is safe on block, yeah, but you waste all your meter, something Eliza relies on and Akuma and Geese do not, to put it in your own words.
- Everyone techs dk3 on hit. I have almost never seen someone not rolling back and the few couple of times they didn't tech, I wasn't prepared for it, because it happens so seldom.
Great video otherwise. It's nice to see you actually lab and play this character instead of dodging her. Can't wait for the next stream!
Someone needs to make a video about all these weaknesses. I found a lot of these out by fighting an eliza main and labbing against the character too many people are shit at this matchup when she has major weaknesses even in her cheap attacks
Ofcourse Kazuyas armor beats it im 40 different ways, wouldnt be kaz if he didnt defend for himself lol
Great comment
We need to upvote this shit
@@grantgarbour There is my guy
Everybody: she's shit tier
Pakistani pro: A tier
Everybody: damn, she's high execution.
Petition for MainMan to change his 750K Masku points redeemable from Eliza to Master Raven
Yes!
That would be way more interesting!
Finally my main gets some respect
@Captain Wesker Dedication and hard work makes it worth it
Ah, I see. A fan of 2D chars and titties.
@Captain Wesker people can play whatever character they want. She's nowhere near as bad as some people say she is.
@@BeBeeBBB and even if she was trash, as long as he has fun, I see no problem.
@@ShaunDelier What is with you types immediately pointing to 2D and tits? Can people just not like the way a moveset is?
As an Eliza main I thought this video was great and fair. Happy to see TMM being able to enjoy some aspects of the character even though the visual design does not appeal to him the slightest.
I've never been a fan of her but absolutely never saw her as weak either. Shes always been a threat in my eyes with her capabilities with her meter, gimmicks, priority on ex moves etc just as it's always been with shoryuken type moves in their respective games. Being rooted in both street Fighter and Tekken as well as multiple 2d and 3d games for so many years, the execution is as difficult coming from that background.
Glad people are catching up to her potential as they did with Akuma. I've never been a fan nor care much about "tiers." In the right hands, we've all seen the shittiest characters in terms of "tiers" be incredible and even win championships in various games. In the end, the results will always lie in the player over the character.
This reminds me of that wavedash podcast episode with framewhisperer when he couldn't stop talking about eliza. I wonder what his take is.
Awesome to see mainman actually take a proper look at eliza!
A couple missed things: ch on d1 in to dp1 is a combo, so it launches. At the wall she can wallsplat people who stay on ground with d3 dp1.
And the moonglide low launch only works if the ex divekick is fast or instant, not just the qcb input.
Edit: it can work if they stay on the ground but is not guaranteed.
Hoping for some more eliza content from mainman in future!
By instant, you mean 28f Divekick?
@@UltimateBallaPOM If im not mistaken the fastest you can get it out is 19f, notation: d,db,b,bu,u,uf,3+4 - thats the "instant version"
a way to do it but slower would be uf,d,db,b, 3+4 and that can wary in the frames depending how fast you do the notation, can be even slower than d,db,b 3+4 since you can input it just before eliza would land again
@@UltimateBallaPOM just checked i seems that even the d,db,b 3+4 is guaranteed even tho it does not show hits as a combo with the low, the instant version is a true combo since after screw from ex divekick hit combo counter is at 3 i just assumed that there is a way to get out of it since it wasnt a true combo
@@lukaandrasek2466 thanks, my man!
@@lukaandrasek2466 you can do divekicks the moment you reach ub so it might be faster but that version stays in place unlike the uf version.
I've always told everyone that she's underrated but everyone told me that I'm wrong
She’s definitely underrated Idk about top 5
there's no way lol, I think her options on paper seem insane, and then get blown out of proportion
She can seem like top 5 if you play against a really good Eliza
nah definetely not top 5
Without good normals, no way
Very good, but it's not even close to top 5.
But as always, this detail doesn't matter at all.
I've always thought this character was kinda slept on. definitely an interesting character.
Her dive kick frames change depending on how low you hit the opponent. For example, sometimes she is +16 frames on hit and her 16 frame move is guaranteed. The downside of this is that you need to have the execution.
Every low tier character according to Korea and Japan's are now top tier from no where. That's the level of game of Pakistani's!!
And people with none of the skill these pros have, are hopping on the bandwagon fast as all hell.
This community is more peer pressured than any other i've seen in recent memory.
People keep overhyping the Pakistanis. Outside of arslan I don't remember any of them doing anything. Ffs none of them made it to the twt top ten so how are they the best in the world, cause tmm said it?🤷♂️
Benny Spears Here before the pakistani fanboys destroy you. Heera Malik and Awais honey have done very well in pretty much every tournament they have attended. Pretty sure awais honey qualified for top 20 just by getting a few 1st place finishes too near the end of the year
@@TheTruth-mv7hm you dont remember or just dont know it?
@@retardedmeliodas2042 never said they were weak just there not on the level of the koreans or the Japanes.
Visually uninteresting? I mean a vampire is pretty unique among the mostly human cast aside from kumas, gigas jack and kings.
Don't forget that if Eliza has a hard read on a slow enough low, she can jump over it and tack on j2 for 15 damage before actually launching you.
13:30 You figure that he'd notice the dive kick isn't combo'ing. It has to be an instant air ex divekick to combo.
I think just uf aerial ex connects...
@@Kairax It has to be iad to land consistently.
"She has a dive kick"
3D Players: So?
2D Players: Ah fuck
Very interesting video indeed, but I think you're overstating how quickly she gains meter. I believe she only gains meter 25-30% faster than Akuma, which is not that much considering Akuma only needs 1 bar to launch from 10f jab and d3, while she needs 2 bars to do the same.
Kazumi, Geese, Akuma and now Eliza. Who will be the next revelation for the mighty Tekken scene? 99% of the playerbase is trash and have little to no idea about the game - this results in characters like Eliza going under the radar for so long. Suddenly some changes are made, a top player picks the character and NOW the character is from bottom 5 to top 5 because someone made her work. Who will be the next flavor of the month? Lee, Gigas? Maybe Lei or Anna? Find out in the next episode of Tekken 7.
People already play Lee, Lei, Gigas, and Anna.
@@DragoonCenten you missed the point
Nerobianco feel free to elaborate because anyone that plays the game even semi-seriously is aware of the state of those 4 characters without top player's intervention.
@@DragoonCenten Elaborate about what? My first comment explains it well. People considered Eliza weak, even top players like Chanel. Arslan picked her and suddenly she is "strong".
i also recall chanel in grand finals with jdcr just recently using eliza.
Eliza is like that one nerdy dude every girl ignored for ages until they found out that his family is loaded as fuck.
Im just happy our girl getting some spotlight.
"Hes no lars or gigas"
*cries in tendoXI*
I came into the game literally right before season 2 began. I wanted to learn her, but was so lost on playing a 2D character in a 3D environment I was unfamiliar with. I wanted to main Akuma too. But learned Tekken with Bob and Miguel, then went to Eliza as season 2 began. Mained her ever since and haven't looked back.
Thank you Arslan for that tier list, you have opened our eyes.
Always check multiple pro players tier lists and form your own opinion. Arslan has also said things like Lee is top 5 in the game, and Chanel has said that Eliza is bottom 5 in the game, so its hard to just look at a single persons tier list and follow it. It depends on how you use the character.
@@Silvers_7 Arslan has admitted in his tier list video with King Jae that he was trolling when he putted Lee in Top 5.
bruh, this tekken 7 really is starting to look like street fighter v
It even says it in the description.
Man instant dive kick is soo Fcking hard to do
Eliza's divekick pressure can be backdashed AND jabbed.
If You block (or parry) one time, She loses her turn
Her moonglide mixup is completely seeable, *if you practice enough* you can block/punish any option she throws out 100% of the time.
True about the divekick pressure. The moonglide however mixup is not seeable. MG2 comes out in 14 frames and MG4 comes out in 18. It can be fuzzy guarded however if the Eliza player is not delaying the 2 option from it. In the open, you can walk the mixup in neutral most of the time if you're good enough, but from Oki, it's a guaranteed mixup.
Dark wave into ex on hit in (Range 2-3) 3 4 is a launcher
F 4~ 3 into ex Micro divekick = natural combo
but thanks for the video! Saw things I didn't know yet.
one thing: if you do her instant dive kick fast and low enough it will be +4-+5 on block, so you can just spam and frame trap people in the wall XD
Well... As a guy who has a friend that mains Eliza this is no surprise lol
4:00 i don't know, among all female characters in game she looks the most interesting with her magic effects on attacks, moonglow, ex moves look incredible too.
I've been trying hard to get my friends convinced Eliza is good. With this i will finally prove it to them.
Luckily she was noticed now. I know a Tekken streamer that plays Eliza and got interested to her gameplay since that streamer played that character.
16:35
You want more?
Me:......Yes we want more.
If Anna had the Devil Gene you'd get Eliza.
You mean Lili lmao
you definitely meant lili
I’m sure this guy meant lili.
@@burnpisces7733 why lili?
fun fact instant dive kick give you plus frame on block and is super disgusting at the wall
This character is just underrated.. korean rate elizr bcus his frame rate bcus korean plays only pokes and punishment but if u maximize elize she can be a monster especially on the walls
She is super easy to play if you have 2D fighting game experience I have been saying for 3 years this characters top tier now it's finally coming out she has one of the highest win rates online
Damn the playlist got me groove
I think he forgot the healing throw
You gotta appreciate how much difficulty even an accomplished Geese player is having with basic bread-n-butter shit for Eliza. I could say more, but I won't.
True moral of the story: 26:02
you can fuzzy guard the ex fireball mix up
I like how the Game played in the description is street fighter
First she's considered bad, now she's considered good?
wat
Arslan said she's good and people will parrot whatever top players say. So now she's suddenly actually insanely good and a secret top tier.
TMM parrots Pros more than anyone i've seen in recent memory.
He's also on the DLC hate train, so this video was inevitable.
Took me longer than it should've to realize the frame data for Eliza was on the right, not on the left. Was sitting here like "What bad frames? Theses are better than Leroy frames right here."
i just noticed all the fancy transitions, nice job tmm
I just started playing Tekken again after playing SFV for a while. I'll definitely give her a try
It says in the description thing that the game is street fighter 5
eliza dive 3 is not always safe if u hit the torso(-13)
but the closer u hit the toes of the oponent it can be -4
ws2 is also a standout move of eliza safe counter launcher
yea youre roght. she absolutely blasted me into space all the two times i met her online the last 2 years
Eliza is devil jin's waifu confirmed, devil queen and devil king of the wall.
It's funny that a lot of her pressure can be easily dealt with if you're playing another 2D char. Akuma can both focus or Shoryuken out of it.
he has 2D moves like akuma, shes just got overshadowed by him because of mainstream
There's a lot more to it than Akuma just being more popular than Eliza.
The vampire queen is getting her due!
Gonna be honest. I think I’ve only ever played against one Eliza ever since launch. So all this is foreign to me 😅
She should be new dlc character for Divekick game
If her rise in popularity means we see less Paul and Steve whenever tournaments roll around again, then I'm all for it.
Okay that counter hit dick jab into 1 dp2 only seems to work on Akuma. It doesn't work on Heihachi or Steve, idk about other characters but it's inconsistent at best.
Edit: I've done some testing, it only works on small characters, for some reason
My brother has been an eliza main siince she was first released
you have to combo, After the slide a instant ex dive Kick, not a normal
Currently waiting for our lord and savior Fading Fire to say something in the comments
11:11 FUTA FUTA FUTA FUTA
O god is this gonna be the sequel to the church of ora
I am new and still a very below average player but I understand the fundamentals and a few days ago I was in your chat and asked why people were so torn between her placement in tier lists and the only reason people could give me was that she couldn't TOD people like geese and akuma with meter but I know that isn't why those characters destroy anyways
That is why those characters destroy lol. They get absolutely ABSURD damage off many low risk options. In akuma's case he can go for a 50/50 launcher and still be plus afterwards. Geese can parry you for over half health, and if he gets a ch on something like a ss3 or hits a raw b3,2 he gets absurd dmg. The reason people are torn on eliza is because she isn't as strong as akuma or geese, and unlike these 2 she can't play proper tekken as well. I semt this before I finished lol
Things like her df1,2 being negative on hit. All of her lows being either seeable and launch punishable or very negative on hit (save for her mg4 which is very telegraphed, and her d3 into mg mix). Her pressure is impossible without walls so she can be turtled on large stages and infinite stages harder than probably any other character in the game. Even her mg4 which is a huge risk to use, only launches with meter and still doesn't get that much dmg and is steppable and launch punishable. Her frames on her regular attacks are horrible. Tmm in this video talked about her b4 into dp1 and ws1 into dp1. But unlike a lot of other character these attacka are launch punishable and not hit confirmable. Throwing these out is often a death sentence unless it is a punish. Going for her super after one of these attacks is possible to kave a safe launcher but it uses all of her resources to keep her at -7 where akuma can do the exact same thing but end up plus on block, only using one bar, with less execution than a double qcf. Geese has good tekken tools, Akuma has passable tekken tools and a WAY more useful meter. Eliza has far below avg tools and meter that only makes her a decent character. Imo she is the most balanced 2d character. I acknowledged that she has dumb shit but the cost of having that is being over reliant on meter and having shit tools. Problems the other characters don't have
BLITZ ? Well in akumas case he has basically a 10 frame launcher but even if he didn’t have the insane damage he’d still be above so many other just because his moveset
@@mfgeedorah479 yeah sorry I sent that response too early so I was editing it when you responded. Yeah akuma has a 10 frame launcher that is way more practical than eliza and he can more easily get into clean hit range on d3 using fadc and launch with one bar where eliza has to work her way in with terrible buttons and then go for a d3 that may get her killed if she isn't in range or if the opponent backdashes at the last second. Akuma is plus after his fadc cancels
BLITZ ? I was just sayin that’s what the chat was telling me acting like all that contributed to their success as characters were damage, which isn’t true
@@mfgeedorah479 yeah it definitely isn't just the dmg in akuma's case. Geese is mostly about the dmg tho lol. He has can play tekken and drop 2 bars to win a round
Yes she was underrated for so long. I think if they give her a good low she can easily join the S tier. Even awais honey has start playing her as akuma is not working right now in pakistan.
So she is Akuma but more balanced and that is how a proper 2d char be in tekken game?
Yes she is worse akuma that is shit without meter and pretty good with meter
i want her as a guest character in Divekick.
Without wall she’s honestly the worst, but with walls her pressure is crazy, also you didn’t mention if you catch a moon glide 4 at the wall you can get a guaranteed launch with d3 into dp1, which is another reason why her 50/50 is really good.
Wish that was more consistent though. For example: Against Kings you still have to be off-axis to her right for the DP1 to connect. You do have time to do a small sidestep after landing MG4 to account for this, but it's quite hard to do consistently. It might still just straight out not work on Fahk, but not too sure after his changes.
It's a shame so many people slept on her because she's really interesting from a gameplay perspective! I would love to see her return in the next Tekken game, and if not her then at least some of the cool ideas they gave to her
I always thought she was good enough with her building bar pretty fast
Its true that she is good. By the character itself in a non-pro level, she can carry you to Tekken God like Leroy, Akuma. Unlike other characters that you really need to master everything to be a Tekken God.
ah yes my favorite 3d fighting game street fighter 5
TMM is falling in love with Eliza
Eliza is Top Tears
Always thought this character was wayyy underrated. Even without the obvious d3 at the wall shit, you can't even consistently punish her b12: you can wait for the 3rd hit and get your measly wr punish, but if she doesn't do it, you've missed your chance to punish the 2 hit version, or you can ss the 3rd hit, but if you ss and she doesnt do the 3rd hit, now you've missed your chance to punish again, and I think the punish for the first 2 is only 13f anyway. Way too crazy of a mind game for a pretty basic ch launcher
Us jin players look at unblockables and just smile bc we can party it all
Trick she has is timing. From ex unblockable is like 10 fr faster. So be careful.
So...how do I get away from her wall pressure? @@
I've faced a well executed Eliza and I was like stunned in every match.
MASTER RAVEN is underrated...do a raven video pls...its been years and i have no info on raven from you
There's tons of info on Raven already.
@@DragoonCenten there is a single video..and its a breakdown of season 2 changes...not the actual caracter
Vj3k05l4v you obviously haven't been looking hard enough then because there is years worth of shit and she's not even a popular character
@@DragoonCenten givem e link pls...i humby appologise for my retardation...gove me link to this raven videos you speak of
@@DragoonCenten i see a seson 2 breakdown withc is outdated..and not a full character review...i see old ass tekken 5 videos that have nothing to do with the new raven...and her being not popular is more reason we could use a good video on her...to show ppl the potential so they try the character