Im so grateful for the courage of these brave survivors to speak out against these abusive systems. Thank you, Peter for continuing to bring awareness to the abuses going on in these “churches”
Thank you so much to Holly, Kathy and the Reynolds family for sharing your stories. You are helping so many people by doing this. You are the ones who are being the hands and feet of Christ, not these evil people who claim to love the Lord.
Holly Rench, thank you so much for sharing your story. Even though our family was never a member of a CREC church, our family was drawn to them and visited a couple of different churches over the years. Your story resonated with me! We were part of 3 different churches that were abusive. Two of them were PCA churches, and the other one was RPCUS. I felt like some of what you said could have been my own story!
It is really becoming more evident that these husbands are not living up to their side of the marriage covenant described in the scriptures where Paul admonishes the husbands to - "love your wives as Christ loved the church", not even close! Jesus does not treat the, "Bride of Christ", this way!! A real abuse of scripture from my perspective!
This church is so terrified of women and women's knowledge and power. The growing similarity to the extreme control over women of groups like the Taliban is alarming. No wonder they want to ban books and eliminate their children's exposure to modern thought. They truly want them to live in the dark.
1:21:25 Nine marks is a reputable ministry?? They’ve covered up abuse as well & not followed their own biblical mandate for abusive leadership re CJ Mahaney.
I can't understand what the guest is saying at 48:40, when she says, "The main pastor had left, and had to be ******." It sounds like she's saying he had to be "F-M-F-L'eed." What is verb she's using? Is it an acronym of some sort?
I'm so curious about the Stephenson son in jail? I can't find anything online.. all I've been able to find is a "Dr." Larry Stephenson who is on staff of Logos online school; the bio mentions his wife's name is Kelly, so I'm pretty sure that's the Larry that Holly was talking about. Anyway, Larry sounds like a giant tool lol.. But I'm too curious, so if anyone knows the son's case, please post it!
if you're trying to pitch this to those who are interested in CREC, those would be the people who you have thoroughly turned away from your podcast with all of your politics talk. all the reasons why they would be interested in something like CREC in the first place, are same reasons why they stopped listening to you 30 minutes after you bring politics into this, none of them coming back. so they're all gone. forget about them. not saying this to beat you up, you certainly don't deserve that, I see what you're trying to do, it is only commendable, it's just that I can't show your podcast to anyone who might could have been reconsidering buying bunch of Douglas Wilson books for their church folk, classes and libraries, they feel thoroughly attacked and abused here. study the dynamics of abuse and abusers. abused people often, usually! take YEARS to figure out they are even being abused. their abuser lies about them to their face, and does it so well the victim believes it. believes it is their fault. the abuser has no conscience, therefore lies so easily and so good everybody! including secular people believe the abuser (person or a whole church). studies show even cops, while they think they can, in reality can not tell a liar any better then average person. But there are ways to tell once one is aware, but that takes time too, and preconceived notions get in a way. severely. it is a convoluted subject, but heads and tails can be made out of it. often people who have not been through it themselves will not believe the victim. inside and outside of the church. perhaps this is the only spot where potential not yet victims can be helped. telling them real life stories, teaching them the signs. especially people born and raised in the church are so sweet, but naive and gullible, and such an easy pray for the people without a conscience. I need help for some people inside a CREC church. the water is not hot enough yet at this particular location. but I can't ever help them wake up coming at them with (what will feel to them like) attacks on their beliefs and intelligence. which is what the politics on this show are doing. just turning then off from listening. period. this Christian nationalism you soak off is so fringe, most people just are puzzled: what's wrong with being s Christian and what is wrong with loving your country? you or your guests ask for them to try and understand, you - you try to understand them. best I can gather from this podcast is all the ways the abuse shows up and shows itself so I can see it and point it out. but I can not turn the people I would wish to help to not talking to me at all.
Agreed. 🤦♀️ The testimonies are compelling but public school apologists and other academics platformed here may turn some away from hearing these brave CREC defectors. Forgive- it's hard taking 'cult' allegations of Wilson seriously given Doug has never attempted to enforce face coverings, restrict travel, forbid assembly, coerce mRNA injections, compell pronouns, or celebrate sterilization & FGM of minors, etc.- to anyone outside his church or school that I'm aware of. Professor Geir's tribe in Moscow arguably has. And would I rather live in a Christian theonomy or a globalist technocratic, masked, androgynous, big pharma dystopia? As someone who sees CREC/Calvinism/legalism as dangerous, it's hard not being grateful at times for at least *somebody* on the other side. The devil thrives on false dichotomies, though, so sadly, here we are. 🤷♀️ Not sure if it's 'eternal subordination of the Son', or T.U.L.I.P., or Federal Vision, or Canon publication contents that's resulted in the dominionist departure from the Gospel but praying it can be fleshed out some more.
Christian Nationalism is just their family structure on a bigger scale. The way they raise their kids, and frankly, their wives, is similar to the way they wait to raise their citizens. It’s the same thing.
Christian Nationalism isn’t about loving your country. It’s the same heavy top down controlling legalism that the CREC encourages with families - which leads to the abuse. It will also lead to abuse politically if the ideas continue to grow as exponential as they have been over the past couple of years. It’s the same idea - that strong hierarchy will save us all. And when it doesn’t - whether for minorities and the law, wives or kids - we just ignore them and say it does.
The artwork on these programs shows what they really are about. Two girls and a guy gossiping. Gossip without the ability for anyone else to verify what is said because insufficient facts.
I came out of an abusive marriage and family system. I spent years working through all the dysfunction and healing those hurts. What Holly is saying is incredibly relatable. This is NOT gossip. She is speaking truth and should be taken very seriously.
Are you really so dense that in light of the topics being discussed on this podcast you are going to complain about the artwork and claim survivors speaking their truths are gossiping? Shame on you.
@@rachelshield2060 The manner in which The Sons present material with only a few facts which cannot be checked makes their series gossip. I am sure that the story relates to you well, but there is a difference between relating to a story and the presentation being completely truthful. Many of us have suffered abuse and accept Jesus' mercy and healing. Others revel in the abuse story and never heal or fall away from the cross. There is always more to sordid and sinful stories than told and facts should be brought forward from all the players involved instead of just one. That is the biblical method rather than only presenting one side.
@@jahnvantuttlesma8215 Of course not. Put as Paul Harvey would say, Now for the rest of the story. Where are the hard facts in this entire series? Facts are missing. For example, today we listened to Karen who attended a church in Oregon. What church? Which counselors? Which church members? Were the other facets presented to the listener. No. There is always more to the story and as presented here this is just gossip. Juicy, tender choice morsel gossip going down to the bellies of those who lack discernment or concern for the truth.
Im so grateful for the courage of these brave survivors to speak out against these abusive systems. Thank you, Peter for continuing to bring awareness to the abuses going on in these “churches”
Holly Rench is a Shero, and I'm proud to stand by, with, and alongside her. Holly, thank you.
Thank you so much to Holly, Kathy and the Reynolds family for sharing your stories. You are helping so many people by doing this. You are the ones who are being the hands and feet of Christ, not these evil people who claim to love the Lord.
Holly Rench, thank you so much for sharing your story. Even though our family was never a member of a CREC church, our family was drawn to them and visited a couple of different churches over the years. Your story resonated with me! We were part of 3 different churches that were abusive. Two of them were PCA churches, and the other one was RPCUS. I felt like some of what you said could have been my own story!
It is really becoming more evident that these husbands are not living up to their side of the marriage covenant described in the scriptures where Paul admonishes the husbands to - "love your wives as Christ loved the church", not even close! Jesus does not treat the, "Bride of Christ", this way!! A real abuse of scripture from my perspective!
My hat is off to the Father and leader of the Reynolds family and how he protected them. There is nothing like a military man...different approach-
This church is so terrified of women and women's knowledge and power.
The growing similarity to the extreme control over women of groups like the
Taliban is alarming. No wonder they
want to ban books and eliminate their
children's exposure to modern thought.
They truly want them to live in the dark.
Thank you. Keep up the good work.
1:21:25 Nine marks is a reputable ministry?? They’ve covered up abuse as well & not followed their own biblical mandate for abusive leadership re CJ Mahaney.
I can't understand what the guest is saying at 48:40, when she says, "The main pastor had left, and had to be ******." It sounds like she's saying he had to be "F-M-F-L'eed." What is verb she's using? Is it an acronym of some sort?
“ ended up having to leave”
@@paulacoyle5685 thank you. And Paula Coyle -- what a surprise! Haven't interacted with you in ages!
I'm so curious about the Stephenson son in jail? I can't find anything online.. all I've been able to find is a "Dr." Larry Stephenson who is on staff of Logos online school; the bio mentions his wife's name is Kelly, so I'm pretty sure that's the Larry that Holly was talking about. Anyway, Larry sounds like a giant tool lol..
But I'm too curious, so if anyone knows the son's case, please post it!
if you're trying to pitch this to those who are interested in CREC, those would be the people who you have thoroughly turned away from your podcast with all of your politics talk.
all the reasons why they would be interested in something like CREC in the first place, are same reasons why they stopped listening to you 30 minutes after you bring politics into this, none of them coming back.
so they're all gone. forget about them.
not saying this to beat you up, you certainly don't deserve that, I see what you're trying to do, it is only commendable, it's just that I can't show your podcast to anyone who might could have been reconsidering buying bunch of Douglas Wilson books for their church folk, classes and libraries, they feel thoroughly attacked and abused here.
study the dynamics of abuse and abusers. abused people often, usually! take YEARS to figure out they are even being abused. their abuser lies about them to their face, and does it so well the victim believes it. believes it is their fault. the abuser has no conscience, therefore lies so easily and so good everybody! including secular people believe the abuser (person or a whole church).
studies show even cops, while they think they can, in reality can not tell a liar any better then average person. But there are ways to tell once one is aware, but that takes time too, and preconceived notions get in a way. severely.
it is a convoluted subject, but heads and tails can be made out of it. often people who have not been through it themselves will not believe the victim. inside and outside of the church. perhaps this is the only spot where potential not yet victims can be helped. telling them real life stories, teaching them the signs.
especially people born and raised in the church are so sweet, but naive and gullible, and such an easy pray for the people without a conscience.
I need help for some people inside a CREC church. the water is not hot enough yet at this particular location. but I can't ever help them wake up coming at them with (what will feel to them like) attacks on their beliefs and intelligence. which is what the politics on this show are doing. just turning then off from listening. period.
this Christian nationalism you soak off is so fringe, most people just are puzzled: what's wrong with being s Christian and what is wrong with loving your country? you or your guests ask for them to try and understand, you - you try to understand them.
best I can gather from this podcast is all the ways the abuse shows up and shows itself so I can see it and point it out. but I can not turn the people I would wish to help to not talking to me at all.
Agreed. 🤦♀️ The testimonies are compelling but public school apologists and other academics platformed here may turn some away from hearing these brave CREC defectors.
Forgive- it's hard taking 'cult' allegations of Wilson seriously given Doug has never attempted to enforce face coverings, restrict travel, forbid assembly, coerce mRNA injections, compell pronouns, or celebrate sterilization & FGM of minors, etc.- to anyone outside his church or school that I'm aware of.
Professor Geir's tribe in Moscow arguably has.
And would I rather live in a Christian theonomy or a globalist technocratic, masked, androgynous, big pharma dystopia?
As someone who sees CREC/Calvinism/legalism as dangerous, it's hard not being grateful at times for at least *somebody* on the other side.
The devil thrives on false dichotomies, though, so sadly, here we are. 🤷♀️
Not sure if it's 'eternal subordination of the Son', or T.U.L.I.P., or Federal Vision, or Canon publication contents that's resulted in the dominionist departure from the Gospel but praying it can be fleshed out some more.
Christian Nationalism is just their family structure on a bigger scale. The way they raise their kids, and frankly, their wives, is similar to the way they wait to raise their citizens. It’s the same thing.
Christian Nationalism isn’t about loving your country. It’s the same heavy top down controlling legalism that the CREC encourages with families - which leads to the abuse. It will also lead to abuse politically if the ideas continue to grow as exponential as they have been over the past couple of years.
It’s the same idea - that strong hierarchy will save us all. And when it doesn’t - whether for minorities and the law, wives or kids - we just ignore them and say it does.
The artwork on these programs shows what they really are about. Two girls and a guy gossiping. Gossip without the ability for anyone else to verify what is said because insufficient facts.
Should victims of abuse abstain from talking about it?
I came out of an abusive marriage and family system. I spent years working through all the dysfunction and healing those hurts. What Holly is saying is incredibly relatable. This is NOT gossip. She is speaking truth and should be taken very seriously.
Are you really so dense that in light of the topics being discussed on this podcast you are going to complain about the artwork and claim survivors speaking their truths are gossiping? Shame on you.
@@rachelshield2060 The manner in which The Sons present material with only a few facts which cannot be checked makes their series gossip.
I am sure that the story relates to you well, but there is a difference between relating to a story and the presentation being completely truthful. Many of us have suffered abuse and accept Jesus' mercy and healing. Others revel in the abuse story and never heal or fall away from the cross.
There is always more to sordid and sinful stories than told and facts should be brought forward from all the players involved instead of just one. That is the biblical method rather than only presenting one side.
@@jahnvantuttlesma8215 Of course not. Put as Paul Harvey would say, Now for the rest of the story. Where are the hard facts in this entire series? Facts are missing. For example, today we listened to Karen who attended a church in Oregon. What church? Which counselors? Which church members? Were the other facets presented to the listener. No. There is always more to the story and as presented here this is just gossip. Juicy, tender choice morsel gossip going down to the bellies of those who lack discernment or concern for the truth.