Actually, it makes more sense than making a custom character. It is weird how the artefact teleports without explanation or acknowledgment from any of the character. Dark urge with the artefacts glued to shart makes the most sense. Until the artefact protection reveal, shadow heart should be a mandatory ally, or at least your transformation should progress without her in proximity.
@@shApYTshadow heart gives an explanation when the artifact goes to you if you talk to her. She basically just says that the artifact has a mind of its own and that it chooses who to be with. Also saying that so long as we have the same goal it doesn’t matter who has it. And that when the time comes to take it to the sharrans she basically says that we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I’ve only gotten these series of dialogues from her like 3 times in over 1100 hours so…
@@Aburaishi I always found it interesting which characters could be recruited to an Evil playthrough and which couldn't. Those being Astarion, ShadowHeart, Minthara, and probably Lae'zel. The rest are too good to tolerate an Evil Tav. I suppose you could also play as an Origin character and force them to be evil.
Most people don't realize she's even a companion and you only now became able to recruit her officially without some complex and often game-breaking workaround. So that's probably why, I personally didn't realize either until i took her dripped out armor and saw that she had all the same paladin of vengeance traits I had on the examine screen.
@@Aburaishiin my evil run (unredeemed shart and astarion + minthara) she was literally the only one disapproving of evil things from time to time. Astarion didn't like the extra work of evildoing sometimes but shar shart was not on board with some of the nastier things. even if she embraces shar, she doesn't like cruelty for cruelty's sake
3:20 Actually if you leave act 1 or travel to the mountian pass and return, you'll see the "Paladins" all dead and burned and Karlach nowhere to be seen so she actually does beat them
@@MiagolioMaxwell I mean, she is fire-based, she probably went nuts like she does on the house, only during the fight. She wouldn't have necessarily exploded, but with how much of a ticking time bomb her heart is anyway, the distinction I put forth barely matters.
@MiagolioMaxwell Unlikely since the story wise she never dies until act 3 even without her engine being fixed by Dammon. She will eventually die but not so quickly. At least not from the engine
@@MiagolioMaxwellit probably means she got ceromorphised. Spoilers for end of game. Based on what happens if you chose that for her at the end of the game, it seems to either fix the engine or get rid of it completely, so most likely she’s one of the thralls you fight on the way to the netherbrain if you never recruit her.
Possibly she exploded, but even if we pretend that she beat them, Karlach would have ceremorphosized long before that, without the protection from the prism. She's dead either way. And before you say it would have her personality, remember that this mind flayer would be part of the Absolute hivemind, not an independent mind flayer continually protected by Orpheus or at least his power.
I liked Minthara. Especially mine because she was totally willing to have lots of worms in her brain. I maxed her out with worms. And she was down for anything.
I just started his Origin and while he can offer a very intereseting angle to the story, I swear it feels so strange to actually do what the game normally would want me to do - as in, be a leader in a group of adventurers. It's just... absolutely not him lol.
Maybe if he thinks he can manipulate them into protecting him. It does make some sense to me. Those people seemed very eager to join up with him. Free shields
@@snowpoler to be fair, Astarion is the perfect origin to do Honour run, because he would absolutely only do battle that either he couldn't talk his way out of, or there is a lot of loot involved. He would acquiesce to follow companions sometimes and do their personal quests if only to keep the meatshields around him.
I actually thought it’s Jaheria when I started making it then forgot she is insta killed by nightsong dying. I remembered her showing up afterwards for some dumb reason in my head
@@ProxyGateTactician I think generally if Durge kills Isobel or Marcus takes her, then the player will be around to help Jaheira fight the shadow freaks and Jaheira will often be around later. I didn't realise that fight auto-resolves in Jaheira's death in the Nightsong dies version
@@Allurian90 Interesting. In that case, if true, in a Shadowheart playthrough where you want to follow Proxy's path as much as possible (which I see as the most canonical and likely path for a solo Shadowheart), perhaps you can change things up a bit so that you save Jaheira during the fight instead of having her die, making that the only change, therefore not only having a second companion at least, but also making it possible to recruit Minsc. I think I'm gonna do this for my run actually. So that camp isn't AS empty from Act 2.5 onwards 😅
Realistically, Minthara could've been executed right before Shadowheart arrives at Moonrise Towers but Plot demands that Shadowheart and Minthara meet, I guess. XD
I really love how the biggest obstacle for every character here is just their own and everyone else’s inability to work together or help others out. It’s crazy how much someone coming along that’s willing to cooperate and mediate changes things and how many lives are saved
Pretty realistic too, a lot of friend groups are literally held together by one person. Everyone is friend with that one person so they are friends with each other but if you remove that person they would not get together.
@@RexZShadow We call this 'The Pinkie Pie Effect'. Knows literally everypony in town and is constantly throwing parties and making sure all are included.
@@elwiso672perhaps but that doesn't make them any less correct about that logic, sometimes it really is just that one person holding it all together which is quite fascinating to me.
Iirc the devs more or less also said that under normal circumstances this gaggle of misfits would never work together as well, so lends credence to the theory
@@PrinsB Unfortunately, without incredibly good gear to boost spell save dc, Sacred Flame rarely hits as well. She can be incredibly strong. She's a cleric after all. But early game it's easy to see why people think of her as inaccurate.
I had a drunken theory when I talked to my friends about the game some time back, where I suggested Durge and Shadowheart are the main characters, and since in non-Durge playthroughs Durge starts dead, Shadowheart is the real main character and Tav is just an adventurer that stumbles in and takes command. So this video makes total sense to me.
Completely agree because when you play as dark urge you become crucial to the plot and the backstory of what's going on. But as any other Tav, you get lucky, steal shadow hearts artifact and become the main character.
@@tttttttttttttttp12 Larian Studios' CEO has a dog named Gustav, and Tav was chosen to be the default name for the player character. That's why people refer to the player character as Tav.
SPOILERS Fun fact, if you dont pick durge as a main character, you find his default dragonborn self in the temple of bhaal, orin killed him@@kimnotkardashian
I like making my characters' Dream Guardians look similar to important people in their lives. It seems like the kind of thing the Emperor would do in order to garner more affection for them.
Shadowheart is truly the main character, divine artifact to protect her, a god in her corner, and the only reason she made it further then lae’zel is outside help
@@AlexisTheDragon The Bhaalspawn does not remember anything at first. It would make sense for Shadowheart to lead the group since she has the artifact.
Right? Unlike Vlaakith, Shar is an actual god who is willing to provide boons to her loyal followers. She may be an evil god who does it for her own purposes, but she does help them nonetheless.
That's often necessary to justify companions who don't agree with what the player does still sticking around or joining up with the player despite barely knowing them.
In a way yeah, it just took way more recording time because I had to play as other characters etc for their recorded parts and play with shadowheart as a companion for all her lines
While I understand the gith distrust thing, Shadowheart clearly isn't too proud to beg for allies going by how many times she tries to force her way into Tav's party when the alternative is making the trip completely alone, so I really think she would begrudgingly say yes to Lae'zel at the mountain pass. If nothing else because Lae'zel is right there taking the initiative to ask first.
But then Laezel would just immediately die when walking into the Shadow, because she doesn't have Shar's protection, and thus it makes no difference. Clearly neither of them are smart enough to figure out the whole light thing
@@CanisMythsonno, then they’re just be in the same situation as the player. With both of them working together they’d probably manage to survive against the shadow curse monsters (which are the primary threat before you get to moonrise) and then work together for the rest of the game.
@@CanisMythsonnah in that timeline Shadowheart wants to go the shadow lands meanwhile Lae’zel wants to stay in the mountain pass to find the Crèche and then they either fight or leave eachother for their own goals
One of Shar's domains is Deception, and Shadowheart is a Trickery cleric, so I don't think she'd outright confess to being a Sharran to the drider. In fact, she often mentions she tries to hide her Sharran nature, although the writing makes her openly mention Shar frequently before she "comes out" so... Well I think she would have failed the Persuasion checks leading to the fight anyways!
Pretty much yeah. She's the only one who doesn't get shown as being screwed, and realistically it's the player taking her artifact that would put her in any danger to begin with. No player = she is ok
@ProxyGateTactician still feel like you did wyll dirty ngl lol because on my 4th playthough I completely ignored the goblin fight came back later and wyll was alive and chillin
@@blakepainter19.0 It all depends on how you approach it. If you take part in the fight amd do nothing he dies the majority of the time, but if you skip the fight entirely he's guaranteed to survive.
My assumption for why NPC Lae'zel goes into the Shadow Cursed Lands is because without the artifact, she felt/heard the call of the Absolute and it told her to come to Moonrise.
i was thinking the same thing. she insists on partying up when you talk to her after the Nautiloid Crash. i can see her not wanting Laezel, but not avoiding Karlach or Astarion or Wyll at least.
@@ImpIsDead Yeah. And even if she doesn't want Lae'zel as a friend, she may be willing to use her, and even desperate when nobody else is in her party. Even if confronted by Lae'zel for having the artifact later she may be more conciliatory because losing Lae'zel when only Lae'zel is in the party is riskier than losing her when everyone is in.
@@ImpIsDeadI think it's more she wouldn't come across then. Wyll might be the only one, but he wants to save the tieflings so Shadowheart likely splits there. If she got lost she might recruit Karlach, Gale, or Astarion, but doubtful she'd go down those roads.
If you avoid the fight with the Goblins outside the Grove Wyll is guaranteed to survive it, (Yes if you watch the fight happen he dies more often than not but off screen hes okay)
I tried SO HARD to see if he'd die when I did my Honour run. Just sat there with my characters doing nothing with their thumbs up their bums, passing their turns. Wyll and Zevlor were the only people not in my party to come out of that encounter alive. I then proceeded to ignore him until he came to my camp and forced me to pay attention to him 😅
@@bunnyboygamillethought he'd be more concerned with hunting down an innocent teafling than seeking out a character who sat and watched an invasion like it was the movies😂
@@marcnolan2409 oh, it's because I high-tailed it over to recruit Karlach immediately after doing all my initial Grove activities. So then he just showed up at camp trying to kill my new best friend 😂
If you never talk to her, Karlach would’ve actually killed the “Paladins” when you leave the Wilderness and come back, though she is nowhere to be found, and likely died somewhere on the road to Baldur’s Gate.
Possibly, but I think the big takeaway is that the only people who can survive the Shadow-Cursed Land are followers of either Shar or the Absolute. Any of the companions who could survive Act 1 would surely die in Act 2 except for Shadowheart and Minthara.
@@Fridaey13txhOktober, yeah, this seriously downplays how much Shadowheart thinks others are helpful. Even if you don’t save her on the Nautiloid, she offers to join you (if you aren’t a Gith), and you have to refuse twice to get her to go away, then she shows up at the Grove, where you have to tell her again to leave, then she’ll show up a third time the moment you get close to Moonrise, meaning she’d run into whoever is the first companion to get there.
While Shadowheart does disapprove of joining with Lae'zel when you're with her, she's not 'desperate for companions' while in a party with others. I'd argue she might take Lae'zel up on the offer, especially since she outright asks gith Tavs to join up if you ignore her long enough. Minor point though, since there's no way Shart would enter the Creche. *Or, as danielle pointed out in the comments, Shart would kill Lae'zel in the fight for the artifact, since no one is talking her out of it.
@@daniellete9049 I feel like Lae'zel would actually be the one who kills her, at the bridge already, seeing as you stepping in is pretty much the only thing that stops her.
Its interesting how TECHNICLY both evil and good playthru can be canon wihout Tav in the picture, and it all depends on "Will wyll listen to Obi-Wan and stay on the high ground or jump down to die like a moron" , cuz as some other people pointed out below, he is chariamatic and heroic enough to recruit most if not all companions average player would therefore making a good run...and S.Hearth with some luck can solo the campaign on the evil side
Wyll: "I'm going to jump down and make a superhero landing entrance." Zevlor: "That is a terrible idea and tactically moronic." Wyll: "Relax, it's just a few goblins. What could possibly go wrong?" Timeline proceeds to shift drastically from a story about hero Wyll leading a party to glory and greatness, and alters it into a story about Shadowheart leaving most people for dead as she becomes a brainwashed fanatic that spreads darkness and misery. All because of a single jump...
3:30 if you go back to act 1 after heading to the mountain pass Karlach is gone and the paladins are dead. So she doesn't just survive she dominates and goes her own way.
I would be interested in a ''what would happen if X was the protagonist'', since this is basically ''what would happen if Shadowheart was god's favourite princess'' and a lot of the other characters would be interesting, even if it would only be Wyll's 2/20 survival timelines.
It would low-key make sense for Minthara to become an Unholy assassin when the time comes which would make a fight with sarevok avoidable, SH and Min are both pragmatic so that might be a solution they come to. It would also be a petty slap in the face by Minthara to her ex gf Orin LOL.
There's a line where tav asks Minthara "An old flame?" (Referencing Orin) and she responds by saying "Jealous? You needn't be." The lack of a denial could be interpreted as a yes.
That would be an interesting evil Shadowheart playthrough... You cannot replicate everything because you would need to fight goblins near the grove but other than that you can replicate the rest
Great idea for a video Proxy! I was almost sure they wouldn't make it as nobody trusts each other without the player to mediate, but no, Shadowheart+Minthara is just enough.
Honestly, it kinda makes sense. She probably has ingrained in her that she has to obey the commands of Viconia in her indoctrination, so the Emperor trying to use that to manipulate her checks out
Tbh I do like when stories are completable without the main character makes it feel like everything doesn't just depend on him but he is the one stepping up
this is genuinely one of the most unique videos i've seen regarding this game, it was so fun seeing you logically deduce how exactly the plot would play out had our main characters just not existed :D
Shadowheart is truly a main protagonist of the game. Has both legendary artifact and Goddesses protection at her side. Somehow manages to avoid every dead-end encounter. And, most importantly, has a hot drow wife. Based.
I think lae'zel just fell under the influence of the absolute without the artifact of shadowheart. And without the lyra she couldn't summon kar'niss. Meaning she has no protection from the shadowcurse.
The one major thing I learned is in the final part of Act 3, you can just...run through the sewers instead of the courtyard battle??? I never knew that lmao
I did the courtyard battle because my inattentive ass missed the sewer and just assumed that i was supposed to summon my allies for a massive, epic showdown of the ages in that courtyard (which to be fair it was indeed epic...with turns taking forever to resolve).
I think if Wyll managed to survive the grove fight (and there is the possibility) he would be as successful as the player character, since he is the classical hero. Meeting Karlach would result in him sparing her judging by the approval you get, if you call him out in that scene. He would probably recruit everyone. Don't know, if he would stick with Astarion, but he takes the news of him being a vampire pretty well as a companion, so I'd say in the rare cases, Wyll survives (never tested it without fighting myself in the grove and there he always survived), Wyll might actually be the most sucessful of the origins.
That’s a good point. There is a % of worlds he survives and he would probably be his own leader not with Shadowheart In an alternate universe he would do the stuff faster than shadow heart
I've watched most of your challenge runs at this point and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate how you ground them so much in roleplay just as much as in stats optimization; it makes for such an entertaining viewing experience. :D This one in particular is such a fun idea, nice job.
I think that Shadowheart would try to convert Minthara to Shar worship. Minthara, I think would most likely reject, but there is a chance that all of that loss and betrayal she's experienced might be used by Shar to lure her in. A Sharran Minthara seems like a scary prospect.
My assumption, that the prism would escape her. For some reason Emperor can do it somehow evidently. If Tav ignores Shart and the prism it appears in their inventory anyway. Probably Emperor finds Shart a bad option for being ally with. Maybe because of her blind Shar‘s worship. He may think that she just brings the prism to Viconia and it will be destroyed or Emperor will be killed (he reads her mind and knows her intentions). If Emperor can choose his best option is Astarion or Karlach. Since Astarion doesn’t have risk of explosion at any moment, he is a winner. He is okey with consuming tadpoles and prefers any alliances that help him to beat Casador. Astarion depends on Emperor more then in one way and it makes him better target for manipulation.
The thing larian did best here is why i love fromsoftware so much. MOST of the side characters have stories so good they could all be the protagonist of their own games by a lesser studio. The gameplay is why we all play at least once, the characters are what keeps us coming back.
What an awesome video! Very well argued. The only thing is, I think Shadowheart could easily stumble upon Astarion, and in that case she would very likely ally with him. So it would be a group of 3: Shart, Minthy and Astarion.
from what ive seen from the one time i forgot to get karlach before going to the mountain pass, she actually wins the fight against the paladins, but i do agree that she'd still not live due to her engine
yeah, there needs to be a distinction between lore and gameplay feats. There is no way you can solo the paladins with just Karlach in the game, but lore wise she's a very skilled devil slayer an one of the better ones in Zariel's army though not near the strongest which she also confirms herself. A bunch of random paladins wouldn't be able to stop her
She gets turned into a mindflayer. If I had to guess what would happen after the paladin fight. She would miss the grove. One she is far from it and the player only finds it as we crash land next to it. She would help with the gnoll fight. Most likely dies but if she doesn’t she would help with the burning building. Then see the gith. Be under level 4 and back track. Then maybe find the blighted village fight some goblins and if she goes to the goblin camp she turns into a true soul do to not having the artifact. If she goes to the grove she will end up going to the camp anyway
There are 5 hard coded Nightsong points in the game that determine her choice. Solo SH has very little reason to encounter most of them. And honestly, if she turned to Selune she would most likely have died fighting Viconia and the Sharrans. Without Shar's orders it is also likely she would have abandoned the quest.
Man, I really enjoyed this video. You should definitely make more “what if” content. Also, the character circle portraits counting down as they died was aeshtetically pleasing.
2:00 kamikaze pilots actually had a pretty good survival rate. 14% survived their successful hit on enemy ships. and that's only those that actually did it. Because they were instructed to only go through with it when they thought it would be successful
Phenomenal theory! I love that, despite the amazing challenge of having no allies, it actually makes sense that Shadowheart and Minthara could succeed by themselves when you tell the story like this. Absolutely worth a sub from me!
i think it's a testament to how well the game covers it's bases that none of the choices here feel out of character or unlikely, i guess the fact that shart is an origin character helps
I can only guess Wyll didn't expect to be so measly in combat, since the tadpole crippled his powers and this could be his first big fight since the infection.
I mostly agree with your reasoning, but I don't think Shadowheart would out herself as a Sharran during the Absolute caravan ambush. As a companion she avoids discussing her faith without a persuasion check and/or circumstances forcing the issue, and she approves of subtlety and deception- I don't know if she'd come up with it on her own or not, but she definitely approves if you convince the drider that the Absolute sent you to take his lantern from him. Her charisma score isn't fantastic though, so we could just say she failed the deception roll and it turned into a fight anyways.
An error here in your assessment - if Lae'zel is not recruited she does indeed escape the tiefling trap, but is slain on Voss's orders on confronting the githyanki patrol.
That happens if the player goes near the patrol before entering the mountain pass. If you go straight to the mountain pass then she shows up there. So you're not wrong, but that is an alternate possibility of what can happen.
I guess it doesn't really matter if Larian says she dies in the shadow curse, but I think she'd have a harder time negotiating her way past the goblins than Shadowheart.
Very very well done! Your explainations made perfect sense and you still made it interesting despite the challanges! There is ONE minor detail i´d like to add: Considering where you first encounter him Astarion would- on his route to go his own way- likely come across Gale in the stone. Not charitable but maybe in the market for some favors he may even free Gale. However after that...im not sure the two would travel together. Astarion isnt likely to just feed Gale his items and Im not sure how likely Gale would be to try sticking with Astarion (especially once he finds out he´s a vampire.) UNLESS either this encounter shifts the chain of events where either of them come across and help Wyll or Karlach (or even Lae´zel?) (which would change everything...at least until the cerramoprhosis kicks in or they become Absolutist cultists without the artifact (since its unlikely after all that they would still catch up to Shadowheart rushing through) Unless that happens Gale will just go off and explode alone and Astarion will just be caught by Cazador / stay a cultist. MAYBE (and thats a big maybe) Gale will detonate and blow up as a cultist at Moonrise, killing the Elder brain.
Pretty fun exploration of a what if and quite well put together, though I have a few points I'd like to make. If you are willing to explore (even just briefly) what happens if Karlach overcomes the odds and beats the fake followers of Tyr, why not what if Wyll survives the Grove gate battle? I admit, I can't expect every possibility to be followed through as that could quickly snowball into a massive web of possible outcomes. I'd like to also bring up your decision regarding the Kar'niss encounter. Shadowheart is not open about her Sharran faith, fearing backlash, and can approve of manipulative tactics. I stress that I still think this was a fun and well put together video, and do appreciate the massive effort you've put into making Baldur's Gate 3 content. :)
Karlach has a timer and will die in time so following her unfortunately feels pointless. With Wyll he won't survive the shadow curse but is prob smart enough to not die by it. I don't think his patron can make him survive it and he ain't siding with the Absolute so his tale ends just like that too. Basically ACT 2 is just a cutting point for everyone. No matter who they are if we let them survive through their odds, the shadow curse really fucks a lot of them over. It's hard to see anyone really survive past it or siding with the Absolute.
I think that a series of what if X character was the main character, and basically creating an interesting narrative based around Origin characters doing what is in character could be really cool.
If Lae'zel doesn't team up with Shadowheart, she's bound to become a mind flayer anyway. While the range is never explicitly defined, a certain proximity to the astral prism appears to be necessary for it to protect anyone. So anyone surviving would be contingent on them joining Shadowheart or just coincidentally being near enough to her.
Very interesting - I would actually be curious to see other games covered for how they would go without a "main character" or player helping out. Great content, keep up the good work!
As someone who has not finished the story, I derive great pleasure from watching your newest vid, recognising that I am about to be spoiled and dropping it mid-vid, having carefully extracted the appropriate amount of knowledge from your genious. Your vids are surprisingly spoil-free (no sudden reveals of future Acts while showing previous Act footage). Thank you!!
Personally, I think Shadowheart would die at the mountain pass. She doesn't seem like the type to realize you can just sanctuary and run. She'd likely have wasted all her spell slots on Guiding bolt.
@@Zorayah I actually learned it's impossible to sneak past that encounter. That was my original thought too, and they always find you in stealth. (unless ur invis but she doesn't have that spell)
@@ProxyGateTactician I think I'd give a bit of lore vs gameplay leeway there to say she could use invoke duplicity a bit like minor illusion (in actual 5e the duplicate can move and everything) It's cool that she can do it within bg3 mechanics though even if the flavour of it isn't 10/10
I love this run! I also noticed that you made Viconia into Shart's dream Guardian. That makes a lot of sense as I believe he would search each individual's mind, and take a form that they trust. That's how I always make my Tav's dream Guardians.
I always felt like Shadowheart was essentially the main character of BG3 I mean the plot revolves around the artifact she has, act two heavily focuses on Shar, not to mention there are a lot of decisions in the game that involve Shadowheart or at least things around her. One could argue Lae'zel could also be the main character but while the Gith can be a big part of the story, they really do not have to be. My first playthrough Lae'zel died early on (by Shadowheart's blade) and I honestly did not even know the creche existed. I think this video was a great idea and cool way to kind of confirm my idea that she is in fact pretty much the main character.
I feel like it's unlikely Lae'zel would enter the Shadow-Cursed lands when the creche is in the mountain pass. The Creche would be easy enough for her to find and they'd know about the curse, plus, the Blood of Lathander is like, *right there*. Even if she doesn't pick up that weapon, I think it's entirely plausible she could make it to Last Light and get enough allies to make it past Ketheric.
I agree, but that is what happens according to Larian. I don't really get the reasoning either. If you don't recruit Lae'zel her corpse just appears there with no explanation.
I liked this video! I think people are always going to pick certain bits apart naturally for the sake of what if's and conversation, but I could see a lot of this being super probable and making sense in the way where things really COULD go this way for the most part.
I think it would go slightly different. She is focused on having to find a healer and wanting to team up from the start, so I think she'd save Gale. Also she'd go look for the druids leader, because she is very focused on a healer first, because she knows she'll not reach Baldurs Gate before ceremorphosis. This leads to her saving Halsin and thus the Grove.
The video actually addresses this idea. Without the player, shadowheart reaches the grove before the goblin battle at the front gate and then the battle is fought and won without her. The only reason the player in a regular playthrough is allowed to go into the inner sanctum of the grove and talk with kagha or nettie is that they save the day in the goblin battle, so with shadowheart not being a part of that battle, she would never get to talk to kagha or nettie and would thus never know about halsin and him being in the goblin camp. Not to mention, without the player shadowheart would be very unlikely to put lady shar's mission in jeopardy for a grove she has little reason to care about
I love this! It is a perfect mix of role-playing and game setups the mechanics seasoning. I recently tried starting the game as Lae’zel, trying to make the role-playing-convincing choices, but I enjoyed your Shadowheart impression much more. 🤗
This was really cool, and i would love more videos tackling different what-if scenarios, like what if the dark urge kept his memories? What would he do, or what if someone else started with the artifact
My only argument for this would be Shadowheart reaching the grove before the attack. You always arrive as the attack starts, do logically so would she Meaning shed be able to get into the grove and meet with nettie and learn about halsin. Whicb cpuld lead to teaming up with Wyll to go to the camp on a rescue mission. Though the prism protection being reveaked would likely split them up anyways, as shed say she no longer needs the healer Shed continue on as you said. Wyll's end would then come either trying to rescue Halsin, or, if he survives it. Hed then ho after Karlach, and team up with her after the tadpole reveal. Theyd then help the tieflings when theyre kicked out of the grove, and either die in the ambush, or be found at the inn. Though without the protection of the prism, they might not last that long
@@CerberusMalt I think it works in the assumption the player fights the intellect devourers, recruits astarion, finds the dying mindflayer, recruits gale, and possibly checks out wither's crypt and the Lae'zel situation. But yeah it's obviously super janky if you race there.
ngl i have let Shadowheart make her own decision against Dame Aylin during an evil run, and she choose to spare her of her own volition, which was very weird.
It’s based on nightsong points (a hidden point system you gather while with her). SlimX has a good video explaining it. But if she didnt get the hidden requirements by travelling with a player she will not spare Alyn
I could see arguments for Astarion, Karlach, and even Laezel (tho SH's racism is hard for her to overcome) finding and grouping with Shadowheart before leaving Act 1 and thus not becoming mindflayers. Astarion would push the party to defeat cazador, and after taking that power, he might backstab the Emperor to become the Absolute.
Just considering how Shadowheart's campaign can play out, her approvals, etc I feel like this video is a bit of a misnomer. Yes this is "without a player", but we're still assuming these characters make certain decisions with certain information, and so it becomes more of an assumed run of how Shadowheart's campaign would go for her "in character" without a Tav driving the plot instead... than how it actually might, when Shadowheart chooses to drive it herself. For instance, I somewhat disagree with the takes about her actions - I think she'd learn in the grove about Halsin in her quest for a healer and go save him, for instance. It's why she's there even though she has no interest in helping the Tiefs. So regardless this is all an assumption we make as "players", or outside observers. Still, it's all a fun thought exercise.
Game: *has no protagonist*
Shadowheart: Fine, I'll do it myself.
Proof indeed that she's gods favorite princess
Actually, it makes more sense than making a custom character. It is weird how the artefact teleports without explanation or acknowledgment from any of the character. Dark urge with the artefacts glued to shart makes the most sense. Until the artefact protection reveal, shadow heart should be a mandatory ally, or at least your transformation should progress without her in proximity.
@@shApYTshadow heart gives an explanation when the artifact goes to you if you talk to her. She basically just says that the artifact has a mind of its own and that it chooses who to be with. Also saying that so long as we have the same goal it doesn’t matter who has it. And that when the time comes to take it to the sharrans she basically says that we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I’ve only gotten these series of dialogues from her like 3 times in over 1100 hours so…
I always though that Shadowheart was the original Player character if there was no other option
I think for a main character gale or lae'zel make more sense than shadowheart
If you believe that people have forgotten your tease of offering to play the game as a Disney princess you are sadly mistaken, my friend.
We will never forget
We will never forget
We will never forget
We will never forget
We will never forget
90% of the time Minthara is the one non-player companion that dies; this time she's the one companion that doesn't. Surprising!
Kind of makes sense - she's the token evil run companion, and as a Shar worshiper, un-redeemed Shadowheart is pretty definitively an evil PC.
@@Aburaishi I always found it interesting which characters could be recruited to an Evil playthrough and which couldn't. Those being Astarion, ShadowHeart, Minthara, and probably Lae'zel. The rest are too good to tolerate an Evil Tav. I suppose you could also play as an Origin character and force them to be evil.
@@aydennuula979you can get gale to stfu most of the time when you do evil shit
Most people don't realize she's even a companion and you only now became able to recruit her officially without some complex and often game-breaking workaround. So that's probably why, I personally didn't realize either until i took her dripped out armor and saw that she had all the same paladin of vengeance traits I had on the examine screen.
@@Aburaishiin my evil run (unredeemed shart and astarion + minthara) she was literally the only one disapproving of evil things from time to time. Astarion didn't like the extra work of evildoing sometimes but shar shart was not on board with some of the nastier things. even if she embraces shar, she doesn't like cruelty for cruelty's sake
3:20 Actually if you leave act 1 or travel to the mountian pass and return, you'll see the "Paladins" all dead and burned and Karlach nowhere to be seen so she actually does beat them
I fear that implies she exploded.
@@MiagolioMaxwell I mean, she is fire-based, she probably went nuts like she does on the house, only during the fight. She wouldn't have necessarily exploded, but with how much of a ticking time bomb her heart is anyway, the distinction I put forth barely matters.
@MiagolioMaxwell Unlikely since the story wise she never dies until act 3 even without her engine being fixed by Dammon. She will eventually die but not so quickly. At least not from the engine
@@MiagolioMaxwellit probably means she got ceromorphised.
Spoilers for end of game.
Based on what happens if you chose that for her at the end of the game, it seems to either fix the engine or get rid of it completely, so most likely she’s one of the thralls you fight on the way to the netherbrain if you never recruit her.
Possibly she exploded, but even if we pretend that she beat them, Karlach would have ceremorphosized long before that, without the protection from the prism. She's dead either way. And before you say it would have her personality, remember that this mind flayer would be part of the Absolute hivemind, not an independent mind flayer continually protected by Orpheus or at least his power.
you know things are bad when Minthara is your only friend
nah,she is the best companion, pragmatic and not bothered by morals
She's surprisingly loyal, not a bad ally to have
I liked Minthara. Especially mine because she was totally willing to have lots of worms in her brain. I maxed her out with worms.
And she was down for anything.
@@Afterword. I mean, that can be my kind of run...
@@VashdaCrash Right? Be the hero, kill the wizard, accidentally get some gnomes obliterated... Minthara was there - half-drow, half-mindflayer.
Astrion is comically unsuited to complete this mission.
birb
I just started his Origin and while he can offer a very intereseting angle to the story, I swear it feels so strange to actually do what the game normally would want me to do - as in, be a leader in a group of adventurers. It's just... absolutely not him lol.
Maybe if he thinks he can manipulate them into protecting him. It does make some sense to me. Those people seemed very eager to join up with him. Free shields
@@snowpoler to be fair, Astarion is the perfect origin to do Honour run, because he would absolutely only do battle that either he couldn't talk his way out of, or there is a lot of loot involved. He would acquiesce to follow companions sometimes and do their personal quests if only to keep the meatshields around him.
@@sunnyhill7919 True, though to me at least he's also the type to not make it all the way to the end in Honour Mode...
When i started this video i didnt expect that the only comapanion to be recruited is minthara of all people
I actually thought it’s Jaheria when I started making it then forgot she is insta killed by nightsong dying. I remembered her showing up afterwards for some dumb reason in my head
@@ProxyGateTactician I think generally if Durge kills Isobel or Marcus takes her, then the player will be around to help Jaheira fight the shadow freaks and Jaheira will often be around later. I didn't realise that fight auto-resolves in Jaheira's death in the Nightsong dies version
@@ProxyGateTactician I had a bug where jaheira who in my playthrough died in moonrise showed up in the conversation after beating the brain
@@Allurian90 Interesting. In that case, if true, in a Shadowheart playthrough where you want to follow Proxy's path as much as possible (which I see as the most canonical and likely path for a solo Shadowheart), perhaps you can change things up a bit so that you save Jaheira during the fight instead of having her die, making that the only change, therefore not only having a second companion at least, but also making it possible to recruit Minsc.
I think I'm gonna do this for my run actually. So that camp isn't AS empty from Act 2.5 onwards 😅
Realistically, Minthara could've been executed right before Shadowheart arrives at Moonrise Towers but Plot demands that Shadowheart and Minthara meet, I guess. XD
I really love how the biggest obstacle for every character here is just their own and everyone else’s inability to work together or help others out. It’s crazy how much someone coming along that’s willing to cooperate and mediate changes things and how many lives are saved
Pretty realistic too, a lot of friend groups are literally held together by one person. Everyone is friend with that one person so they are friends with each other but if you remove that person they would not get together.
@@RexZShadow We call this 'The Pinkie Pie Effect'. Knows literally everypony in town and is constantly throwing parties and making sure all are included.
@@_supersolar eww
@@elwiso672perhaps but that doesn't make them any less correct about that logic, sometimes it really is just that one person holding it all together which is quite fascinating to me.
Iirc the devs more or less also said that under normal circumstances this gaggle of misfits would never work together as well, so lends credence to the theory
This was an awesome exploration of a hypothetical situation! Although Shadowheart landing attacks did break immersion a bit.
This is the best and most accurate comment ever. I literally LOL'd
@@dpkast Unlike Shadowheart's attacks.
@@KainYusanagi
Attacks are rarely comments, after all.
Though the other way around is, oddly, far more common.
Stop using Firebolt with INT10! You miss because you misplay.
@@PrinsB Unfortunately, without incredibly good gear to boost spell save dc, Sacred Flame rarely hits as well.
She can be incredibly strong. She's a cleric after all. But early game it's easy to see why people think of her as inaccurate.
I had a drunken theory when I talked to my friends about the game some time back, where I suggested Durge and Shadowheart are the main characters, and since in non-Durge playthroughs Durge starts dead, Shadowheart is the real main character and Tav is just an adventurer that stumbles in and takes command. So this video makes total sense to me.
It really is the players fault. We take her artifact and that is her only potential story downfall
but Karlach is the only character who breaks the 4th wall
Completely agree because when you play as dark urge you become crucial to the plot and the backstory of what's going on. But as any other Tav, you get lucky, steal shadow hearts artifact and become the main character.
why do people call it tav again? I understand durge but I still don't get tav.
@@tttttttttttttttp12 Larian Studios' CEO has a dog named Gustav, and Tav was chosen to be the default name for the player character. That's why people refer to the player character as Tav.
That's basically the timeline if Tav doesn't exist.
Durge dies before the game starts, then we go from there.
Why wouldnt durge survive?
SPOILERS
Fun fact, if you dont pick durge as a main character, you find his default dragonborn self in the temple of bhaal, orin killed him@@kimnotkardashian
@@kimnotkardashianHigh intensity sibling rivalry
I love that you made Shadowheart’s Dream Guardian Viconia.
Missed opportunity that origin characters don't have dream visitor preset options that could affect certain conversations.
I like making my characters' Dream Guardians look similar to important people in their lives.
It seems like the kind of thing the Emperor would do in order to garner more affection for them.
I made Astarion's Cazador. It made things that much more terrible.
@@bunnyboygamille Oh gosh- I made mine my Tav. Cutscenes look so weird because they're identical.
@@nobraincellzatall Vanity, thy name is Tav
Shadowheart is truly the main character, divine artifact to protect her, a god in her corner, and the only reason she made it further then lae’zel is outside help
The Bhaalspawn is the main character, as in all the baldur's gates.
It's what the game has always been about.
@@AlexisTheDragon The Bhaalspawn does not remember anything at first. It would make sense for Shadowheart to lead the group since she has the artifact.
Her Godess wants her to succed because she is always be planned to become her chosen. If Tav or Durge dont mess up.
@@schoreschdavoodi9930Viconia was gonna be her chosen. Shadowheart was gonna be the new mother superior
Right? Unlike Vlaakith, Shar is an actual god who is willing to provide boons to her loyal followers. She may be an evil god who does it for her own purposes, but she does help them nonetheless.
Yup, the player acts as the heart and face of the party. Most of the companions are screwed without them.
That's often necessary to justify companions who don't agree with what the player does still sticking around or joining up with the player despite barely knowing them.
You're such a cheeky bastard. I love that this is secretly a challenge run.
In a way yeah, it just took way more recording time because I had to play as other characters etc for their recorded parts and play with shadowheart as a companion for all her lines
While I understand the gith distrust thing, Shadowheart clearly isn't too proud to beg for allies going by how many times she tries to force her way into Tav's party when the alternative is making the trip completely alone, so I really think she would begrudgingly say yes to Lae'zel at the mountain pass. If nothing else because Lae'zel is right there taking the initiative to ask first.
That’s a fair point.
But then Laezel would just immediately die when walking into the Shadow, because she doesn't have Shar's protection, and thus it makes no difference. Clearly neither of them are smart enough to figure out the whole light thing
@@CanisMythsonno, then they’re just be in the same situation as the player. With both of them working together they’d probably manage to survive against the shadow curse monsters (which are the primary threat before you get to moonrise) and then work together for the rest of the game.
@@CanisMythsonnah in that timeline Shadowheart wants to go the shadow lands meanwhile Lae’zel wants to stay in the mountain pass to find the Crèche and then they either fight or leave eachother for their own goals
@@CanisMythson If Lae'zel can't figure out a torch, she deserves it.
One of Shar's domains is Deception, and Shadowheart is a Trickery cleric, so I don't think she'd outright confess to being a Sharran to the drider. In fact, she often mentions she tries to hide her Sharran nature, although the writing makes her openly mention Shar frequently before she "comes out" so... Well I think she would have failed the Persuasion checks leading to the fight anyways!
so what you're saying is, shadowheart is the true protagonist of bg3
Pretty much yeah. She's the only one who doesn't get shown as being screwed, and realistically it's the player taking her artifact that would put her in any danger to begin with. No player = she is ok
@ProxyGateTactician still feel like you did wyll dirty ngl lol because on my 4th playthough I completely ignored the goblin fight came back later and wyll was alive and chillin
@@mal1362 then you experienced something that would have only happened 10% of the time, lucky you lol
@@mal1362 there is a chance he lives, but I have him 20 attempts at it.
@@blakepainter19.0 It all depends on how you approach it. If you take part in the fight amd do nothing he dies the majority of the time, but if you skip the fight entirely he's guaranteed to survive.
My assumption for why NPC Lae'zel goes into the Shadow Cursed Lands is because without the artifact, she felt/heard the call of the Absolute and it told her to come to Moonrise.
You don’t become a mindless zombie. It’s more like a forced religion on you. You truly believe that you should go there.
6:00 One thing though. When you have party members Shadowheart is desperate for allies, but alone she is DESPERATE for allies.
i was thinking the same thing. she insists on partying up when you talk to her after the Nautiloid Crash. i can see her not wanting Laezel, but not avoiding Karlach or Astarion or Wyll at least.
@@ImpIsDead Yeah. And even if she doesn't want Lae'zel as a friend, she may be willing to use her, and even desperate when nobody else is in her party. Even if confronted by Lae'zel for having the artifact later she may be more conciliatory because losing Lae'zel when only Lae'zel is in the party is riskier than losing her when everyone is in.
Doesn't apply to Gith though
Thank you! I'm glad someone else picked that up.
@@ImpIsDeadI think it's more she wouldn't come across then. Wyll might be the only one, but he wants to save the tieflings so Shadowheart likely splits there. If she got lost she might recruit Karlach, Gale, or Astarion, but doubtful she'd go down those roads.
0:11 bold of you to assume i didn't read it all
But now I want to be able to have sazza as a companion
I didn't even notice the spelling...
He also spelled spelld
Bold of him to assume i can read
Poor astelrion
If you avoid the fight with the Goblins outside the Grove Wyll is guaranteed to survive it, (Yes if you watch the fight happen he dies more often than not but off screen hes okay)
I tried SO HARD to see if he'd die when I did my Honour run. Just sat there with my characters doing nothing with their thumbs up their bums, passing their turns. Wyll and Zevlor were the only people not in my party to come out of that encounter alive. I then proceeded to ignore him until he came to my camp and forced me to pay attention to him 😅
@@bunnyboygamillethought he'd be more concerned with hunting down an innocent teafling than seeking out a character who sat and watched an invasion like it was the movies😂
@@marcnolan2409 oh, it's because I high-tailed it over to recruit Karlach immediately after doing all my initial Grove activities. So then he just showed up at camp trying to kill my new best friend 😂
I think *if* Wyll survives, he has the highest chance of being a group leader in place of the PC and taking things on a standard good-aligned route.
@@bunnyboygamille If you anger the Druids in the grove Wyll dies. He goes down with the Tieflings.
If you never talk to her, Karlach would’ve actually killed the “Paladins” when you leave the Wilderness and come back, though she is nowhere to be found, and likely died somewhere on the road to Baldur’s Gate.
Possibly, but I think the big takeaway is that the only people who can survive the Shadow-Cursed Land are followers of either Shar or the Absolute. Any of the companions who could survive Act 1 would surely die in Act 2 except for Shadowheart and Minthara.
Wouldn't Shadowheart rescue Karlach to have an ally, thought??
@@Fridaey13txhOktober, yeah, this seriously downplays how much Shadowheart thinks others are helpful. Even if you don’t save her on the Nautiloid, she offers to join you (if you aren’t a Gith), and you have to refuse twice to get her to go away, then she shows up at the Grove, where you have to tell her again to leave, then she’ll show up a third time the moment you get close to Moonrise, meaning she’d run into whoever is the first companion to get there.
I would end that quicker: Lae'zel finds Shadwoheart's camp and they both die fighting eachother. Everyone else is doomed.
Lae'zel stabs Shart, then grabs the Astral Prism and gets blown to bits by the Emperor.
While Shadowheart does disapprove of joining with Lae'zel when you're with her, she's not 'desperate for companions' while in a party with others. I'd argue she might take Lae'zel up on the offer, especially since she outright asks gith Tavs to join up if you ignore her long enough. Minor point though, since there's no way Shart would enter the Creche.
*Or, as danielle pointed out in the comments, Shart would kill Lae'zel in the fight for the artifact, since no one is talking her out of it.
@pawpaw9666 if playing origin lae'zel she joins you without persuasion even if you don't rescue her when you meet her in the grove
She would kill her later anyways after their fight for the artifact
@@daniellete9049 I feel like Lae'zel would actually be the one who kills her, at the bridge already, seeing as you stepping in is pretty much the only thing that stops her.
Its interesting how TECHNICLY both evil and good playthru can be canon wihout Tav in the picture, and it all depends on "Will wyll listen to Obi-Wan and stay on the high ground or jump down to die like a moron" , cuz as some other people pointed out below, he is chariamatic and heroic enough to recruit most if not all companions average player would therefore making a good run...and S.Hearth with some luck can solo the campaign on the evil side
Yeah wyll if he was around would prevent Shadowheart from the dark side and be a good leader in tavs place
Wyll: "I'm going to jump down and make a superhero landing entrance."
Zevlor: "That is a terrible idea and tactically moronic."
Wyll: "Relax, it's just a few goblins. What could possibly go wrong?"
Timeline proceeds to shift drastically from a story about hero Wyll leading a party to glory and greatness, and alters it into a story about Shadowheart leaving most people for dead as she becomes a brainwashed fanatic that spreads darkness and misery. All because of a single jump...
3:30 if you go back to act 1 after heading to the mountain pass Karlach is gone and the paladins are dead. So she doesn't just survive she dominates and goes her own way.
I would be interested in a ''what would happen if X was the protagonist'', since this is basically ''what would happen if Shadowheart was god's favourite princess'' and a lot of the other characters would be interesting, even if it would only be Wyll's 2/20 survival timelines.
In all fairness, you can do that yourself if you play as one of the origin characters
It would low-key make sense for Minthara to become an Unholy assassin when the time comes which would make a fight with sarevok avoidable, SH and Min are both pragmatic so that might be a solution they come to. It would also be a petty slap in the face by Minthara to her ex gf Orin LOL.
Petty?? Minthara was enslaved by Orin and forced to be her lover. So minthara becoming a unholy assassin would be far from petty
@@mal1362 Wait, when does she say they were lovers?
There's a line where tav asks Minthara "An old flame?" (Referencing Orin) and she responds by saying "Jealous? You needn't be."
The lack of a denial could be interpreted as a yes.
@@sapphosfriend9558 Oh, I remember that. And also if Orin kidnaps Minthara she starts ranting about how pretty her skin is.
@@nobraincellzatall theres also a whole dialogue about how orin lured minthara in, apparently gaining her trust in a significant way
That would be an interesting evil Shadowheart playthrough... You cannot replicate everything because you would need to fight goblins near the grove but other than that you can replicate the rest
Great idea for a video Proxy!
I was almost sure they wouldn't make it as nobody trusts each other without the player to mediate, but no, Shadowheart+Minthara is just enough.
why is shadowheart's dream visitor just viconia at home LOL
thank you for noticing this LMAO I thought no one is gonna be able to tell
Mommy issues
Honestly, it kinda makes sense. She probably has ingrained in her that she has to obey the commands of Viconia in her indoctrination, so the Emperor trying to use that to manipulate her checks out
Tbh I do like when stories are completable without the main character makes it feel like everything doesn't just depend on him but he is the one stepping up
The player is absolutely playing the role of a wrangler to these people.
this is genuinely one of the most unique videos i've seen regarding this game, it was so fun seeing you logically deduce how exactly the plot would play out had our main characters just not existed :D
I can't believe Shadowheart/Minthara is the only canon pairing after all. everything else is just the player's meddling
Shadowheart is truly a main protagonist of the game. Has both legendary artifact and Goddesses protection at her side. Somehow manages to avoid every dead-end encounter. And, most importantly, has a hot drow wife. Based.
I think lae'zel just fell under the influence of the absolute without the artifact of shadowheart. And without the lyra she couldn't summon kar'niss. Meaning she has no protection from the shadowcurse.
The one major thing I learned is in the final part of Act 3, you can just...run through the sewers instead of the courtyard battle???
I never knew that lmao
Same lol
Or just tako another side route on some walls. May have a skirmish or two, but not the big courtyard fight.
I did the courtyard battle because my inattentive ass missed the sewer and just assumed that i was supposed to summon my allies for a massive, epic showdown of the ages in that courtyard (which to be fair it was indeed epic...with turns taking forever to resolve).
I think if Wyll managed to survive the grove fight (and there is the possibility) he would be as successful as the player character, since he is the classical hero. Meeting Karlach would result in him sparing her judging by the approval you get, if you call him out in that scene. He would probably recruit everyone. Don't know, if he would stick with Astarion, but he takes the news of him being a vampire pretty well as a companion, so I'd say in the rare cases, Wyll survives (never tested it without fighting myself in the grove and there he always survived), Wyll might actually be the most sucessful of the origins.
That’s a good point. There is a % of worlds he survives and he would probably be his own leader not with Shadowheart In an alternate universe he would do the stuff faster than shadow heart
He'd need to be able to recruit Shadowheart though
@@sapthan13 He would probably meet her in the grove.
His AI is really dumb for wasting both his spell slots lining up single target Arms of Hadar.
@@CanisMythson It kinda makes sense that, if that's his first battle since the Tadpole weakening, he wouldn't know his own strength... or lack of it.
The lack of plot armor for the companions in BG3 is exactly why I prefer them over the companions in the newer Bioware games
I've watched most of your challenge runs at this point and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate how you ground them so much in roleplay just as much as in stats optimization; it makes for such an entertaining viewing experience. :D This one in particular is such a fun idea, nice job.
I think that Shadowheart would try to convert Minthara to Shar worship.
Minthara, I think would most likely reject, but there is a chance that all of that loss and betrayal she's experienced might be used by Shar to lure her in.
A Sharran Minthara seems like a scary prospect.
My assumption, that the prism would escape her. For some reason Emperor can do it somehow evidently. If Tav ignores Shart and the prism it appears in their inventory anyway. Probably Emperor finds Shart a bad option for being ally with. Maybe because of her blind Shar‘s worship. He may think that she just brings the prism to Viconia and it will be destroyed or Emperor will be killed (he reads her mind and knows her intentions). If Emperor can choose his best option is Astarion or Karlach. Since Astarion doesn’t have risk of explosion at any moment, he is a winner. He is okey with consuming tadpoles and prefers any alliances that help him to beat Casador. Astarion depends on Emperor more then in one way and it makes him better target for manipulation.
The thing larian did best here is why i love fromsoftware so much. MOST of the side characters have stories so good they could all be the protagonist of their own games by a lesser studio. The gameplay is why we all play at least once, the characters are what keeps us coming back.
You should make more versions of this but with each of the main characters as the protagonis (and pretend they started with the prism)
What an awesome video! Very well argued. The only thing is, I think Shadowheart could easily stumble upon Astarion, and in that case she would very likely ally with him. So it would be a group of 3: Shart, Minthy and Astarion.
from what ive seen from the one time i forgot to get karlach before going to the mountain pass, she actually wins the fight against the paladins, but i do agree that she'd still not live due to her engine
yeah, there needs to be a distinction between lore and gameplay feats. There is no way you can solo the paladins with just Karlach in the game, but lore wise she's a very skilled devil slayer an one of the better ones in Zariel's army though not near the strongest which she also confirms herself. A bunch of random paladins wouldn't be able to stop her
She gets turned into a mindflayer. If I had to guess what would happen after the paladin fight. She would miss the grove. One she is far from it and the player only finds it as we crash land next to it. She would help with the gnoll fight. Most likely dies but if she doesn’t she would help with the burning building. Then see the gith. Be under level 4 and back track. Then maybe find the blighted village fight some goblins and if she goes to the goblin camp she turns into a true soul do to not having the artifact. If she goes to the grove she will end up going to the camp anyway
I feel like they need to make the story told this way as a movie
Ironically, I do believe a lonesome Shadowheart would still end up sparing Nightsong, she's just that terrible at being a proper Sharran.
There are 5 hard coded Nightsong points in the game that determine her choice. Solo SH has very little reason to encounter most of them.
And honestly, if she turned to Selune she would most likely have died fighting Viconia and the Sharrans. Without Shar's orders it is also likely she would have abandoned the quest.
Man, I really enjoyed this video. You should definitely make more “what if” content. Also, the character circle portraits counting down as they died was aeshtetically pleasing.
I love how this just turned into an in character Shadowheart Origin playthrough
2:00 kamikaze pilots actually had a pretty good survival rate. 14% survived their successful hit on enemy ships. and that's only those that actually did it. Because they were instructed to only go through with it when they thought it would be successful
Better than Wyll’s 10% survival rate then
How'd they survive?
i like how nearly everyone dies
All three of the main male companions in this game have such big sad wet cat energy (lovingly) I'm not surprised none of them made it out of Act 1.
not a single positive strength modifier between the 3 of them, it's so great
Oh I didn't know Shadowheart wore shoes regardless lovely video Proxy I enjoyed seeing Shadowcute on screen 😊
And she survived wearing boots! Is this considered canon yet? ;)
why do you use an AI voice for your videos?
at least she wears sandals in camp
I'm so confused by this comment why wouldn't she be wearing shoes? What part are you referring to specifically
@@Namelessstew (it's a joke about shadowfeet)
Phenomenal theory! I love that, despite the amazing challenge of having no allies, it actually makes sense that Shadowheart and Minthara could succeed by themselves when you tell the story like this. Absolutely worth a sub from me!
do you believe shadowheart and minthara could beat ketheric and avatar of myrkull?
i think it's a testament to how well the game covers it's bases that none of the choices here feel out of character or unlikely, i guess the fact that shart is an origin character helps
1:26 okay but why you got his grippers out like that??? Without the player he’s just like that? Lmao
I can only guess Wyll didn't expect to be so measly in combat, since the tadpole crippled his powers and this could be his first big fight since the infection.
I mostly agree with your reasoning, but I don't think Shadowheart would out herself as a Sharran during the Absolute caravan ambush. As a companion she avoids discussing her faith without a persuasion check and/or circumstances forcing the issue, and she approves of subtlety and deception- I don't know if she'd come up with it on her own or not, but she definitely approves if you convince the drider that the Absolute sent you to take his lantern from him. Her charisma score isn't fantastic though, so we could just say she failed the deception roll and it turned into a fight anyways.
An error here in your assessment - if Lae'zel is not recruited she does indeed escape the tiefling trap, but is slain on Voss's orders on confronting the githyanki patrol.
That happens if the player goes near the patrol before entering the mountain pass. If you go straight to the mountain pass then she shows up there. So you're not wrong, but that is an alternate possibility of what can happen.
I guess it doesn't really matter if Larian says she dies in the shadow curse, but I think she'd have a harder time negotiating her way past the goblins than Shadowheart.
I thought that too at first but it seems Lae'zel gets past them somehow if you don't appear while she's talking to them.
Very very well done! Your explainations made perfect sense and you still made it interesting despite the challanges!
There is ONE minor detail i´d like to add: Considering where you first encounter him Astarion would- on his route to go his own way- likely come across Gale in the stone.
Not charitable but maybe in the market for some favors he may even free Gale.
However after that...im not sure the two would travel together. Astarion isnt likely to just feed Gale his items and Im not sure how likely Gale would be to try sticking with Astarion (especially once he finds out he´s a vampire.)
UNLESS either this encounter shifts the chain of events where either of them come across and help Wyll or Karlach (or even Lae´zel?) (which would change everything...at least until the cerramoprhosis kicks in or they become Absolutist cultists without the artifact (since its unlikely after all that they would still catch up to Shadowheart rushing through)
Unless that happens Gale will just go off and explode alone and Astarion will just be caught by Cazador / stay a cultist.
MAYBE (and thats a big maybe) Gale will detonate and blow up as a cultist at Moonrise, killing the Elder brain.
11:00 "like a giddy schoolgirl" *cuts herself*
I like this style of video! More games should have "what if" scenarios about how the timeline works without certain things. Parallel universe vision!
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT SHORT CUT FOR THE FINAL ACT!! That will be great for when I want to skip that long, endless battle.
Pretty fun exploration of a what if and quite well put together, though I have a few points I'd like to make.
If you are willing to explore (even just briefly) what happens if Karlach overcomes the odds and beats the fake followers of Tyr, why not what if Wyll survives the Grove gate battle? I admit, I can't expect every possibility to be followed through as that could quickly snowball into a massive web of possible outcomes.
I'd like to also bring up your decision regarding the Kar'niss encounter. Shadowheart is not open about her Sharran faith, fearing backlash, and can approve of manipulative tactics.
I stress that I still think this was a fun and well put together video, and do appreciate the massive effort you've put into making Baldur's Gate 3 content. :)
Karlach has a timer and will die in time so following her unfortunately feels pointless. With Wyll he won't survive the shadow curse but is prob smart enough to not die by it. I don't think his patron can make him survive it and he ain't siding with the Absolute so his tale ends just like that too.
Basically ACT 2 is just a cutting point for everyone. No matter who they are if we let them survive through their odds, the shadow curse really fucks a lot of them over. It's hard to see anyone really survive past it or siding with the Absolute.
@@sakuraxavier4748 Wyll would 100% go to free Halsin though which would allow him to be made aware of the Shadow Curse in the first place.
@@Kek393 Being made aware doesnt really help him figure out how to get through it. Halsin doesn't tell us that fairly sure
@@sakuraxavier4748 with Halsin's advice Wyll would go through the Grymforge, meaning he'd run info the goblin who'd inform them of this.
I think that a series of what if X character was the main character, and basically creating an interesting narrative based around Origin characters doing what is in character could be really cool.
i am constantly surprised by how much effort goes into every video. your videos are so good
Appreciate it! This one was for sure the most for recording. I had around 600 files in the editor it said by the end
If Lae'zel doesn't team up with Shadowheart, she's bound to become a mind flayer anyway. While the range is never explicitly defined, a certain proximity to the astral prism appears to be necessary for it to protect anyone. So anyone surviving would be contingent on them joining Shadowheart or just coincidentally being near enough to her.
Obsessed with how this is just Shadowheart and Minthara’s love story. So true.
Very interesting - I would actually be curious to see other games covered for how they would go without a "main character" or player helping out. Great content, keep up the good work!
As someone who has not finished the story, I derive great pleasure from watching your newest vid, recognising that I am about to be spoiled and dropping it mid-vid, having carefully extracted the appropriate amount of knowledge from your genious.
Your vids are surprisingly spoil-free (no sudden reveals of future Acts while showing previous Act footage). Thank you!!
Personally, I think Shadowheart would die at the mountain pass. She doesn't seem like the type to realize you can just sanctuary and run. She'd likely have wasted all her spell slots on Guiding bolt.
lol that’s a fair enough opinion tbh
all 2 guiding bolt that she also misses btw
She's not a dumbdumb, she's a trickery cleric. I feel like there's a high chance she sneaks by the encounter.
@@Zorayah I actually learned it's impossible to sneak past that encounter. That was my original thought too, and they always find you in stealth. (unless ur invis but she doesn't have that spell)
@@ProxyGateTactician I think I'd give a bit of lore vs gameplay leeway there to say she could use invoke duplicity a bit like minor illusion (in actual 5e the duplicate can move and everything)
It's cool that she can do it within bg3 mechanics though even if the flavour of it isn't 10/10
I love this run! I also noticed that you made Viconia into Shart's dream Guardian. That makes a lot of sense as I believe he would search each individual's mind, and take a form that they trust. That's how I always make my Tav's dream Guardians.
So this is why Shadowheart feels like the main story and secret protagonist of this game x)
I always felt like Shadowheart was essentially the main character of BG3 I mean the plot revolves around the artifact she has, act two heavily focuses on Shar, not to mention there are a lot of decisions in the game that involve Shadowheart or at least things around her. One could argue Lae'zel could also be the main character but while the Gith can be a big part of the story, they really do not have to be. My first playthrough Lae'zel died early on (by Shadowheart's blade) and I honestly did not even know the creche existed.
I think this video was a great idea and cool way to kind of confirm my idea that she is in fact pretty much the main character.
So in other words. The onyl thing you can do is stand in Shadowhearth's way to save the world and effectivelly snatch it from her.
And save her parents if you want to
I havent focused on a 21 min video without dual screening with my phone in eons. This was amazing and so fun to watch! Love the content.
So... am I not the ony one that decided that Shadowheart's guardian will look like Viconia!!! My favorite origin play!
This is so freaking interesting. Ive only ever done Tav playthroughs, I’ll have to give a run as each character now
I feel like it's unlikely Lae'zel would enter the Shadow-Cursed lands when the creche is in the mountain pass. The Creche would be easy enough for her to find and they'd know about the curse, plus, the Blood of Lathander is like, *right there*. Even if she doesn't pick up that weapon, I think it's entirely plausible she could make it to Last Light and get enough allies to make it past Ketheric.
I agree, but that is what happens according to Larian. I don't really get the reasoning either. If you don't recruit Lae'zel her corpse just appears there with no explanation.
Ya but even if she find the creche she just be killed as we learned there is no cure for the tadpole, they just kill you.
I liked this video! I think people are always going to pick certain bits apart naturally for the sake of what if's and conversation, but I could see a lot of this being super probable and making sense in the way where things really COULD go this way for the most part.
I think it would go slightly different. She is focused on having to find a healer and wanting to team up from the start, so I think she'd save Gale. Also she'd go look for the druids leader, because she is very focused on a healer first, because she knows she'll not reach Baldurs Gate before ceremorphosis. This leads to her saving Halsin and thus the Grove.
The video actually addresses this idea. Without the player, shadowheart reaches the grove before the goblin battle at the front gate and then the battle is fought and won without her. The only reason the player in a regular playthrough is allowed to go into the inner sanctum of the grove and talk with kagha or nettie is that they save the day in the goblin battle, so with shadowheart not being a part of that battle, she would never get to talk to kagha or nettie and would thus never know about halsin and him being in the goblin camp. Not to mention, without the player shadowheart would be very unlikely to put lady shar's mission in jeopardy for a grove she has little reason to care about
I love this! It is a perfect mix of role-playing and game setups the mechanics seasoning.
I recently tried starting the game as Lae’zel, trying to make the role-playing-convincing choices, but I enjoyed your Shadowheart impression much more. 🤗
This was really cool, and i would love more videos tackling different what-if scenarios, like what if the dark urge kept his memories? What would he do, or what if someone else started with the artifact
My only argument for this would be Shadowheart reaching the grove before the attack.
You always arrive as the attack starts, do logically so would she
Meaning shed be able to get into the grove and meet with nettie and learn about halsin. Whicb cpuld lead to teaming up with Wyll to go to the camp on a rescue mission.
Though the prism protection being reveaked would likely split them up anyways, as shed say she no longer needs the healer
Shed continue on as you said.
Wyll's end would then come either trying to rescue Halsin, or, if he survives it. Hed then ho after Karlach, and team up with her after the tadpole reveal.
Theyd then help the tieflings when theyre kicked out of the grove, and either die in the ambush, or be found at the inn.
Though without the protection of the prism, they might not last that long
If you dodge shadowheart on the beach she appears in the grove, already there when you've fought at the gate.
@@Zorayah Which doesn't make much sense considering she's unconscious yet somehow ends up ahead of you?
@@CerberusMalt I think it works in the assumption the player fights the intellect devourers, recruits astarion, finds the dying mindflayer, recruits gale, and possibly checks out wither's crypt and the Lae'zel situation. But yeah it's obviously super janky if you race there.
i think a gale origin run in the same vein is the logical conclusion
The Patch 7 new Shadowshar ending should be the one with this run
ngl i have let Shadowheart make her own decision against Dame Aylin during an evil run, and she choose to spare her of her own volition, which was very weird.
It’s based on nightsong points (a hidden point system you gather while with her). SlimX has a good video explaining it. But if she didnt get the hidden requirements by travelling with a player she will not spare Alyn
@@ProxyGateTactician oh, interesting! I didn't know that.
As a Minthara stan, I approve of her being the only other companion to survive. I knew she was the best
I could see arguments for Astarion, Karlach, and even Laezel (tho SH's racism is hard for her to overcome) finding and grouping with Shadowheart before leaving Act 1 and thus not becoming mindflayers. Astarion would push the party to defeat cazador, and after taking that power, he might backstab the Emperor to become the Absolute.
Shadowheart stocks skyrocketing after saving Minthara. You love to see it
Well well well, looks like someone dropped a very detailed road map to my next campaign once the update drops it seems
I felt like I was watching a Warhammer story keynotes with the kind of shenanigans Shart and Minthara were getting up to.
What an amazing analysis. MORE OF THIS
Clever idea! I’d love to see how things turn out from other origin companions following their characters without Tav/Player influence or preference
Just considering how Shadowheart's campaign can play out, her approvals, etc I feel like this video is a bit of a misnomer. Yes this is "without a player", but we're still assuming these characters make certain decisions with certain information, and so it becomes more of an assumed run of how Shadowheart's campaign would go for her "in character" without a Tav driving the plot instead... than how it actually might, when Shadowheart chooses to drive it herself. For instance, I somewhat disagree with the takes about her actions - I think she'd learn in the grove about Halsin in her quest for a healer and go save him, for instance. It's why she's there even though she has no interest in helping the Tiefs. So regardless this is all an assumption we make as "players", or outside observers. Still, it's all a fun thought exercise.
Shadowheart can't get an audience with the druids, so she can never learn about Halsin.
I have been binge watching all your BG3 videos. Really enjoying the content! Please continue!!!
I think there was an unfair advantage, the ladies had PGT playing the fights for them. Love your work