I still get a thrill from holding a physical album copy of an artist i'm a fan of. I think downloading illegally vs. buying all has to do with how you value an artists work or music in general.
There are positives and negatives to piracy, but I'm 20 years old now and i'm not exactly wealthy but I buy nearly every album I like which at the moment stands at 120+ PAID FOR albums, no one has an excuse to illegally downloading albums that they like and keeping it instead of buying it. The only albums i dont buy are the ones that arent available at all in the UK.
i respect artists that give us quality music for free (Danny Brown's XXX for example). So now when Danny puts out his physical album out on vinyl or cd i will definitely cop one or the other.
Stopping Piracy or reducing it, it'll probably be more effective to change attitudes rather than laws, I mean, the reason so many people download music illegally is because of the attitudes of the majority
@inepthabit That's fine. Never disagreed with them thinking it's socially acceptable amongst their peers. They still know they're not supposed to do it. They know the artist doesn't want them doing it. They know, from a morals standpoint, that it's wrong. You'll never convince me otherwise.
I actually purchased 6 albums so far. Lil Wayne - The Carter 3 The Game - LAX Eminem - Recovery Rick Ross - Teflon Don Nas - Untitled Nas & Damien Marley - Distant Relatives
The Last Kirin Oh I copped TPAB without question! My next album I'm thinking of is Sour Soul, BBNG2 by BADBADNOTGOOD, Flying Lotus Your Dead!, Native sun by Breezewax or Muse's Drones. IDK yet
the problem is that corporations have extended their copyrights beyond even the lifespan of the artists involved, I go with my own morality on this, anything over 20yrs old should be public domain, but anything recent that I would recommend to someone, if I'm recommending it, then obviously I gotta care enough about it to pay for the damn album.
The issue is that most people don´t see piracy as stealing. Why? Cuz they aren´t physically stealing an album, the stores/labels aren´t making physical losses, only theoretical losses - which could turn into profits if the pirates actually like the album they downloaded. Maybe most of the pirates don´t buy albums, but when their favorit artists come to town, they´ll at least be there, buying concert tickets. Downloading albums should be seen as something positive, it´s free promo basically.
@GoGoMicFiend Now, I ALSO clearly said that this wasn't a black and white issue. Or did you miss that, too? So let me say it again. This isn't a black or white issue. We all know artists make more money on shows and merch. But that doesn't mean they make nothing on sales. And that also doesn't mean you get free reign to go grab whatever you like by using the justifications of "they already have the money" or "they make MORE money other ways." That, there, is a very juvenile argument.
And trust me for some reason people get clowned for buying music where I'm at, just a culture in my area I guess, but buying an album is like paying for tap water to people I'm surrounded by.
i think its also important to consider that as much as supporting the artist IS the right thing to do, depending on the label, just "buying a CD" might mean little in terms of monetary support
record companies need to make buying a physical album cool/worth it again. "music nerds" still do, but most people just don't and it's cuz it's expensive and there's nothing in a physical album you
I'm referring to the availability of today's music. And yh I agree, it's mostly because music is free in so many mediums that people don't see the point of paying. I stick with using Spotify myself because of the conveniance factor.
I live in a small town. We haven't even got a music stores so getting hold of physical copies is a pain but I still bought like 10 vinyl records last year. I guess there is always iTunes but I don't feel like paying for just mp3's. Piracy can't be contained. We have to face that data spreads so fast these days and not resort to shit like SOPA and PIPA which just cripples us. To bring in sales labels and musicians will have to be open to change.
The main reason I torrent music is because like I feel I shouldn't have to pay 10 of my dollars on something digital that I can't hold in my hand. If I could drive 5 min down the road to a record store and pick up and LP or a CD for 5, 10 bucks then hell yeah I would. Unfortunately 1) there is not record store 5 min down the road and 2) a CD (from a major label) is fucking $15-20.
@GoGoMicFiend You know exactly what we were talking about here and how right and wrong relates to this discussion. If we were really gonna take this to the level of college philosophy class then this entire discussion would be pointless and there'd be absolutely no reason for anyone (including you) to be saying anything at all.
Fast forward to start of 2015. itunes sales are down 15% during 2013-2014. This model that was maybe going to be a legitimate digital option is beginning to show some serious cracks. So what about streaming services like Spotify? If people don't want to buy music, maybe they will pay for the right to access a "Digital Music Library"? If they won't buy... will they rent? If so will a "renting" system where you pay "$10 a month, for example", be enough to feed all those artists whose catalog's are available?
@@tylerm6352 no not really, more so artist have to make the bulk of there money from merch, touring, brand deals etc. Streaming has pretty much devalued the price of a album. Artist get payed pennies from a piece of the pie. Hopefully more companies adapt a more direct payment for the people you listen to the most.
some people like jay-z should just release their music for free if they're worth 500 million. Immortal tech did it and said to burn his older shit if you can't afford it lol. I do buy albums but I'm not paying for a jay album when he's so wealthy and i'm struggling.
I went to Warped Tour the other day and picked up some CDs straight from Rise Records for $5 each. Supporting the artist because I could. unfortunately its not always that easy.
I think the best way is to first listen the album for free and if you like it THEN go buy it.With that way you dont only support mcs that they really deserve it but YOU DONT support fake rappers.
@mykectown Personally I think most kids see piracy more as jaywalking than stealing a car. I don't think most kids really consciously think about the fact that they're hurting anyone.
@GoGoMicFiend Lastly, it IS an issue of common sense because (let me repeat this) we are NOT harping on laws. We're talking about supporting the artists/labels you enjoy. Without support these artists get nowhere. That, guy, is the argument I made. Watch again and if you actually have a retort to something I actually said, let me know.
There is 3 albums I'd love to see. 1. Rakim and Nas 2. Aesop rock, Eyedea and slug 3. Elzhi and Royce da 5'9 Also, this questioning on piracy. We all know it's wrong it's just we have he options for it. The only reason you didn't do that when you were young is because you couldn't. If there was anyway to download albums illegally you would have done it in a second. No one buys albums purely because they don't need to. The only people buying albums are old people and kids.
Ice Cube, said this In your Izod, this the rap God- What'chu gon' put up, in your iPod?- Downloader, what'chu gon' do- when your favorite MC, got to sue you- Cause he got to eat ain't nuttin taboo- Get your ass beat by Erykah Badu- Cause you wanna steal this good music- Put me out of business, now you lose it-
I must say this is one of the best webisodes you guys have done. Very interesting, very passionate and entertaining. I've never said this but I think it's cool the way you chop it up with us in the comments too. Deadendhiphop = Dope as fuck.
My sister and I had this discussion awhile ago. Her thoughts on it were that if she can get it for free regardless if it is right or wrong, why pay for.it. People dubbed tapes, purchased bootlegs, and downloaded things forever, let her have her day. The artists that she likes either brag about how much they have or are successful, her $10-$20 means nothing.
great vid, once again! I think more artists should go the Bandcamp way- allow albums to be streamed, and better, allow people to name their own price. Many are gonna download anyway...
I'm apart of the young generation I was born in the nineties and I bought albums. Not everyone in my generation grew up on not buying albums. I stop because I see no point for me to purchase albums.
@mykectown Great point about Lil Wayne. I am never going to buy an album off an artist that is obviously rich, and brags about it (unless the album is awesome) and I feel for guys like EL-P, but I am flat broke, I can't be spending £200 on all his albums.
If you want to use a model for selling music digitally just do this: Use a program like Valve's Steam, distribute music through it. What you buy is always yours, sales on a regular basis, suggestions based on your taste and your friend's taste. Just sayin
I agreed with Myke in all but one thing here... there is a differance between youtube and download/delete.... youtube actually gets them or the label money... big differance... as long as its VEVO at least,
Sometimes I miss the old days when I used to wash cars, shoes, etc in my town to get 10$ to buy a album, but It's like the guys say sometimes the albums will suck and you lose your hard earn money, but now I listen to the albums and if I like alot, I'll buy and of course if it's my fav. artist I will support them anyway.
Goddam, Myke was annoying on this album. Saying something is a reaction or learned response does not equal saying something is a JUSTIFIED action. Don't be pickin' on old Ken! And I would love to see Cannibal Ox go at it full on with El-P featuring C-Rayz, Aes, etc. I'm not stoked for their new project and some El-P production would definitely help. It sucks that Vast and El had that disagreement over Camu Tao's death.
My response; What if you had a career and you were good at it, but you weren't paid anything or just 1/5 of what you deserve. She said you can't do that and replied, "why not, you do the same thing everyday" and left the room.
But for some reason, I'm sort of an old-head...if an album's REALLY GOOD, I'll buy my physical copy of it. I go to shows when I can, as well. That Throne tour was way out of my broke college budget, though. I am going to see Bun B and Danny Brown pretty soon.
I've Studied This Generation Of Kids, And to Them, It's Just "music". To Us It Was "MUSIC"! How I See It, The Only Time They Might Buy It, Is If They Feel An Emotional/Relevance To The Artist.PERIOD
I see both sides of the fence. The bad being that piracy takes away legit money from businesses and thats the negative about it. The good, is that you can catch these artists in lies. For the past 15 years alone we had artist say that they are releasing a product as in Hi-quality and you would go listen to it and it would be repetitive garbage. So piracy gives you the chance to listen before you buy, which in is never bad. Reality is, people download and most likely wont buy.
@mykectown Don't agree when you say it doesn't matter how you grew up, you still know it's wrong. Morals aren't absolute. Things that were accepted in the past are frowned upon now, and vice versa.
I buy about half the music on a CD that I download and if I'm really into it I try and make it out to the shows but I'll fully admit that I don't buy everything on CD that I downloaded and liked.
HEATED! part two.
I would love this conversation again for nowadays
not sure why. it’s not even an issue these days
@@sbrooks904 the whole conversation wasn't about piracy, and I would love this again because of streaming and how the conversation would go
The argument is harder to figure out now because all the music is being put out digitally now.
I still get a thrill from holding a physical album copy of an artist i'm a fan of. I think downloading illegally vs. buying all has to do with how you value an artists work or music in general.
There are positives and negatives to piracy, but I'm 20 years old now and i'm not exactly wealthy but I buy nearly every album I like which at the moment stands at 120+ PAID FOR albums, no one has an excuse to illegally downloading albums that they like and keeping it instead of buying it. The only albums i dont buy are the ones that arent available at all in the UK.
This is what needs to happen; the culture of buying albums needs to be re-introduced; making it cool to buy albums is the best way to reduce piracy
i respect artists that give us quality music for free (Danny Brown's XXX for example). So now when Danny puts out his physical album out on vinyl or cd i will definitely cop one or the other.
Stopping Piracy or reducing it, it'll probably be more effective to change attitudes rather than laws, I mean, the reason so many people download music illegally is because of the attitudes of the majority
@inepthabit That's fine. Never disagreed with them thinking it's socially acceptable amongst their peers. They still know they're not supposed to do it. They know the artist doesn't want them doing it. They know, from a morals standpoint, that it's wrong. You'll never convince me otherwise.
I actually purchased 6 albums so far.
Lil Wayne - The Carter 3
The Game - LAX
Eminem - Recovery
Rick Ross - Teflon Don
Nas - Untitled
Nas & Damien Marley - Distant Relatives
The Last Kirin Oh I copped TPAB without question! My next album I'm thinking of is Sour Soul, BBNG2 by BADBADNOTGOOD, Flying Lotus Your Dead!, Native sun by Breezewax or Muse's Drones. IDK yet
the problem is that corporations have extended their copyrights beyond even the lifespan of the artists involved, I go with my own morality on this, anything over 20yrs old should be public domain, but anything recent that I would recommend to someone, if I'm recommending it, then obviously I gotta care enough about it to pay for the damn album.
The issue is that most people don´t see piracy as stealing. Why? Cuz they aren´t physically stealing an album, the stores/labels aren´t making physical losses, only theoretical losses - which could turn into profits if the pirates actually like the album they downloaded. Maybe most of the pirates don´t buy albums, but when their favorit artists come to town, they´ll at least be there, buying concert tickets. Downloading albums should be seen as something positive, it´s free promo basically.
@GoGoMicFiend Now, I ALSO clearly said that this wasn't a black and white issue. Or did you miss that, too? So let me say it again. This isn't a black or white issue. We all know artists make more money on shows and merch. But that doesn't mean they make nothing on sales. And that also doesn't mean you get free reign to go grab whatever you like by using the justifications of "they already have the money" or "they make MORE money other ways." That, there, is a very juvenile argument.
And trust me for some reason people get clowned for buying music where I'm at, just a culture in my area I guess, but buying an album is like paying for tap water to people I'm surrounded by.
Piracy is great for youtube debates like this.
I personally think DOOM, Aesop Rock, and Lupe would make a great combination
Ken is right.. I like myke but he was wrong a lot early in dehh
lmfao! @ Kinge "man you walkin' home dawg". xD
It's a 50/50 for me if i like the artist enough i will support them if i'm just getting into them I'll download.
Great end to a Heavy topic of discussion! Can't wait to see what the next topic will be!
Black hippy should make an album
these shits get heated fam
"WHERE ARE YOU GOING" LMAOOO I was dying there
and we're back!
@deadendhiphop You guys need to release a mixtape or an album with all those instrumentals ASAP. Seriously. For real. Real talk.
i think its also important to consider that as much as supporting the artist IS the right thing to do, depending on the label, just "buying a CD" might mean little in terms of monetary support
record companies need to make buying a physical album cool/worth it again. "music nerds" still do, but most people just don't and it's cuz it's expensive and there's nothing in a physical album you
I'm referring to the availability of today's music. And yh I agree, it's mostly because music is free in so many mediums that people don't see the point of paying. I stick with using Spotify myself because of the conveniance factor.
I live in a small town. We haven't even got a music stores so getting hold of physical copies is a pain but I still bought like 10 vinyl records last year. I guess there is always iTunes but I don't feel like paying for just mp3's. Piracy can't be contained. We have to face that data spreads so fast these days and not resort to shit like SOPA and PIPA which just cripples us. To bring in sales labels and musicians will have to be open to change.
DAMN WHY PART 2 TAKE SO LONG PART 1 WAS AWESOME
DEADENDHIPHOP IS AWESOME KEEP DOING YALL THING FOR REAL
I am 19 and I just bought Only built 4 cuban linx. I rather buy CDs than using iTunes.
@underwaterlady Hi, Underwater Lady! We've missed you!
The main reason I torrent music is because like I feel I shouldn't have to pay 10 of my dollars on something digital that I can't hold in my hand. If I could drive 5 min down the road to a record store and pick up and LP or a CD for 5, 10 bucks then hell yeah I would. Unfortunately 1) there is not record store 5 min down the road and 2) a CD (from a major label) is fucking $15-20.
@GoGoMicFiend You know exactly what we were talking about here and how right and wrong relates to this discussion. If we were really gonna take this to the level of college philosophy class then this entire discussion would be pointless and there'd be absolutely no reason for anyone (including you) to be saying anything at all.
Myke's 3 artist were dope I agree with that, been bumping Chino XL & Vakill
"where you goin?" lmfao this is the best convo yet
Myke gotta be right about everything.....Its annoying af
Nouveau Riche I guess
Fast forward to start of 2015.
itunes sales are down 15% during 2013-2014.
This model that was maybe going to be a legitimate digital option is beginning to show some serious cracks.
So what about streaming services like Spotify?
If people don't want to buy music, maybe they will pay for the right to access a "Digital Music Library"?
If they won't buy... will they rent?
If so will a "renting" system where you pay "$10 a month, for example", be enough to feed all those artists whose catalog's are available?
2021 update: yes
@@tylerm6352 no not really, more so artist have to make the bulk of there money from merch, touring, brand deals etc. Streaming has pretty much devalued the price of a album. Artist get payed pennies from a piece of the pie. Hopefully more companies adapt a more direct payment for the people you listen to the most.
some people like jay-z should just release their music for free if they're worth 500 million. Immortal tech did it and said to burn his older shit if you can't afford it lol. I do buy albums but I'm not paying for a jay album when he's so wealthy and i'm struggling.
damn, what myke said about Grimm made me get dem feels.
I went to Warped Tour the other day and picked up some CDs straight from Rise Records for $5 each. Supporting the artist because I could. unfortunately its not always that easy.
My dream collab would be Freddie Gibbs and Big Krit. As far as privacy, i agree with Feefo. It helps get your name out there, but you do lose money
This is why I love Bandcamp.
God tier video
I think the best way is to first listen the album for free and if you like it THEN go buy it.With that way you dont only support mcs that they really deserve it but YOU DONT support fake rappers.
@illtalk900 Word. Great point.
oh man these conversations are legendary lol
@mykectown Personally I think most kids see piracy more as jaywalking than stealing a car. I don't think most kids really consciously think about the fact that they're hurting anyone.
@Macdogg91 Wow. Great point.
the two Nas and Jay efforts we have have both made Nas sound terrible.
@deadendhiphop I was waiting on that one! This series goes down as my ALL TIME favorite! CAN SOMEONE SAY SPONSOR!
Love these convos, you guys are awesome.
Thanks
@GoGoMicFiend Lastly, it IS an issue of common sense because (let me repeat this) we are NOT harping on laws. We're talking about supporting the artists/labels you enjoy. Without support these artists get nowhere. That, guy, is the argument I made. Watch again and if you actually have a retort to something I actually said, let me know.
WHERE YOU GOING?! XD
You dont have to rebuy songs from iTunes it's all tied to your iTunes account.
There is 3 albums I'd love to see.
1. Rakim and Nas
2. Aesop rock, Eyedea and slug
3. Elzhi and Royce da 5'9
Also, this questioning on piracy. We all know it's wrong it's just we have he options for it. The only reason you didn't do that when you were young is because you couldn't. If there was anyway to download albums illegally you would have done it in a second. No one buys albums purely because they don't need to. The only people buying albums are old people and kids.
3:48
"WHERE IN THE FUCK DID YU GROW UP?"
Good way to start the show !
Ice Cube, said this
In your Izod, this the rap God-
What'chu gon' put up, in your iPod?-
Downloader, what'chu gon' do-
when your favorite MC, got to sue you-
Cause he got to eat ain't nuttin taboo-
Get your ass beat by Erykah Badu-
Cause you wanna steal this good music-
Put me out of business, now you lose it-
when they were talking about collab albums i thought of E-40 and Danny Brown
@mykectown shout out for mentioning Chino X in 2012! I bump "Here to Save you all" on the regular
If you love music, you HAVE to support artists whether it's buying albums, going to shows or buying a t-shirt. It's not debatable.
Good video though. Didnt know a 2nd part was coming!
thank u spotify
I must say this is one of the best webisodes you guys have done. Very interesting, very passionate and entertaining. I've never said this but I think it's cool the way you chop it up with us in the comments too. Deadendhiphop = Dope as fuck.
I never have nor will I ever purchase a Lil Wayne album.
My sister and I had this discussion awhile ago. Her thoughts on it were that if she can get it for free regardless if it is right or wrong, why pay for.it. People dubbed tapes, purchased bootlegs, and downloaded things forever, let her have her day. The artists that she likes either brag about how much they have or are successful, her $10-$20 means nothing.
"I agree with Myke" "Man you walking home!!" Hahahahaha.
I'm 14 and I've bought all my albums, but none of my friends do and it bothers the fuck out of me
I always agree with Myke.
I wish this is how part ones discussion went but glad it concluded this way. also @feefo247 Sony= Qriocity, Microsoft= Zune, Apple= Itunes
@westoncolby Agreed! I hate buying digital albums. But I will if I have to.
This is fucking amazing lol
great vid, once again!
I think more artists should go the Bandcamp way- allow albums to be streamed, and better, allow people to name their own price. Many are gonna download anyway...
The guy @ 00:27 always remind me of Proof.
Another Reason for Piracy is When a Album drops in America 2 weeks later it hits my country we want to hear it the same time its released.
in response to the collab question at the beginning: i want that CRS album. US Placers and Don't Stop are fucking crazy
I'm apart of the young generation I was born in the nineties and I bought albums. Not everyone in my generation grew up on not buying albums. I stop because I see no point for me to purchase albums.
7:05 made milk come out my nose xDDDD
Piracy is a distribution problem. (mostly)
@mykectown Great point about Lil Wayne. I am never going to buy an album off an artist that is obviously rich, and brags about it (unless the album is awesome) and I feel for guys like EL-P, but I am flat broke, I can't be spending £200 on all his albums.
If you want to use a model for selling music digitally just do this:
Use a program like Valve's Steam, distribute music through it. What you buy is always yours, sales on a regular basis, suggestions based on your taste and your friend's taste. Just sayin
@liltunechi4eva We'll be sure to record it so you guys can watch.
I agreed with Myke in all but one thing here... there is a differance between youtube and download/delete.... youtube actually gets them or the label money... big differance... as long as its VEVO at least,
Sometimes I miss the old days when I used to wash cars, shoes, etc in my town to get 10$ to buy a album, but It's like the guys say sometimes the albums will suck and you lose your hard earn money, but now I listen to the albums and if I like alot, I'll buy and of course if it's my fav. artist I will support them anyway.
Vakill, Chino XL, Copywrite, Crooked I, and Ras Kass. Just think about that for a minute...Toooo goooood.
CHUCK D AND NELLY AS WIERD AS THAT SOUNDS....THIER SONG ON NELLY'S "BRASS KNUCKLES" WORKED AWESOME
Goddam, Myke was annoying on this album. Saying something is a reaction or learned response does not equal saying something is a JUSTIFIED action. Don't be pickin' on old Ken! And I would love to see Cannibal Ox go at it full on with El-P featuring C-Rayz, Aes, etc. I'm not stoked for their new project and some El-P production would definitely help. It sucks that Vast and El had that disagreement over Camu Tao's death.
what the fuck did Ken not understand, this shit didnt even need a pt 2
My response; What if you had a career and you were good at it, but you weren't paid anything or just 1/5 of what you deserve. She said you can't do that and replied, "why not, you do the same thing everyday" and left the room.
But for some reason, I'm sort of an old-head...if an album's REALLY GOOD, I'll buy my physical copy of it. I go to shows when I can, as well. That Throne tour was way out of my broke college budget, though. I am going to see Bun B and Danny Brown pretty soon.
I personally don't buy albums unless its one of my favorite artists, simply because I don't have the money to buy all the music I love to listen to.
Love Mike's Wicker Man T-shirt!
the right thing to do if you download an album and you like it, GO BUY IT!!
I know it's going to happen sometime this year hopefully, but I want that Kendrick Lamar and J.Cole album right now!
"you walkin home !" lmao
I've Studied This Generation Of Kids, And to Them, It's Just "music". To Us It Was "MUSIC"!
How I See It, The Only Time They Might Buy It, Is If They Feel An Emotional/Relevance To The Artist.PERIOD
I see both sides of the fence. The bad being that piracy takes away legit money from businesses and thats the negative about it. The good, is that you can catch these artists in lies. For the past 15 years alone we had artist say that they are releasing a product as in Hi-quality and you would go listen to it and it would be repetitive garbage. So piracy gives you the chance to listen before you buy, which in is never bad. Reality is, people download and most likely wont buy.
@mykectown Don't agree when you say it doesn't matter how you grew up, you still know it's wrong. Morals aren't absolute. Things that were accepted in the past are frowned upon now, and vice versa.
I love Feefo, he's awesome!
I buy about half the music on a CD that I download and if I'm really into it I try and make it out to the shows but I'll fully admit that I don't buy everything on CD that I downloaded and liked.