Pastor REACTS to Latter-day Saint View of the Cross
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 бер 2023
- Why aren't there crosses in Mormon temples and church buildings? Pastor Jeff reacts to a talk given by Elder Jeffrey Holland explaining Latter-day Saints thoughts on the cross and cross iconography.
Watch Elder Holland's entire talk entitled 'Lifted Up Upon the Cross' at the October 2022 General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: • Lifted Up upon the Cro...
Support this effort: www.HelloCreative.life
Get exclusive access to bonus content on Patreon: www.patreon.com/hellosaints
Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between Christians and Mormons. Are Mormons christians? What do christians and Latter Day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a similar video I made exploring Utah Mormonism in Salt Lake City: • Pastor REACTS to Utah ...
#LatterDaySaints #atonement #mormonism - Розваги
A lot of people have asked that I react to this talk. What does the cross mean to you if you are a Latter-day Saint?
I grew up very religiously conflicted my fathers dad is a Catholic Deacon and my mother's side are super Mormon so the cross has always been important and that why I personally embrace the cross and preach in church that the brothers and sisters do the same. I've gotten mixed responses
We don’t use the cross because we don’t want to use it the same way the woman with the issue of blood believed touching Christ’s garment healed her. It was her faith, not the garment, that healed her. It is Christ, not the cross that heals us. The cross used as a symbol of sacrifice and love is good. The cross used as an idol of blasphemy and thinking the metal necklace has power itself to heal is not good. As latter day saints, it helps to keep doctrine and symbolic understanding pure by avoiding the cross that Satan used to mock Him.
25:18 also, we teach the Atonement happened on BOTH the cross and Gethsemane. Not one or the other. See Bruce R Mckonkie and Todd D. Christofferson.
27:42 reconciliation with God is progression. They are not different as you say and we do not teach they are different. We believe a person who is reconciled to God demonstrates that by acts of faith. We will never be perfect in this mortal life and we know that. But we don’t use it as an excuse to do unChristlike things. Our love for God us what motivates our commandment keeping. Most latter-days saints who don’t understand that often fall away. Because the law is a burden. It is pharisaical to do the law for the law’s sake. Those who live it in heart and mind because Christ has found them do all these commands out of love for God.
I've personally never made the cross a big deal either way. I've worn cross iconography before, but it isn't a focus of my worship. I think with anything, when a symbol becomes necessary to your worship, you're hindering your relationship with Christ. I think so long as you don't turn the cross into a crutch, you're probably okay.
I'm nearly 50 years old and been a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you for strengthening my testimony of what happened on the cross! Thank you for being a unifier rather than a divider!
I agree! I love the reasons given for why we should love the cross! I'm not going to be so quick to avoid the hard things He went through for us.
There is a very good reason that the LDS movement does not focus on the cross and that is because of how wrong is the church’s theology of salvation through Jesus’ death. That is wrong. The message of Jesus is that God is love ❤️ and the command of Jesus which is central to our salvation is also love. LDS knows that by loving and doing good we become more like our brother- Jesus (Yeshua), The church - Protestant side - rejects this completely because it is not Luther’s ‘saved by faith.’ I know the LDS has the gospel right. Evangelicals will say it is wrong because it is ‘works.’ The false gospel - created to unite the Roman Empire - is the false atonement theory of the cross. LDS, please stop compromising with a false gospel. God is love, so it is totally false that the death of His Beloved Son was needed to get him to love and forgive us!
LDS people don't like death. We use the penis.
Don’t get it twisted, the LDS Church is a Cult and there is no Salvation under that organization, Gospel, doctrine, creeds, or their false Gods and false jesus.
The real problem is not the cross or the lack of the cross in LDS, but on what the LDS believes about Jesus! They believe that Jesus is a created god, the created spirit brother of lucifer! In Isaiah 43:10 Yahweh states that before me, there was no God formed, neither shall b one formed after me!! The LDS teaches that there are an endless number of gods n that Jesus is but one of created many as well as the father god worshipped by the LDS is also a created god, n that the LDS male who is perfect in following all the LDS commandments n requirements may also become a god!!
As a boy growing up in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints I was in a primary class where we were given little rings with the symbol CTR on them. This stands for "Choose the right" and I have worn such a ring all my life, as a constant reminder to follow the teachings of Jesus. Wearing a cross can be the same type of wonderful reminder of who you are and that you want to follow Jesus Christ. Anybody who speaks negatively of wearing the cross does not understand our church policies or the doctrine. Sometimes members of our church make statements that seem to indicate we don't recognize or appreciate what Christ suffered and accomplished on the cross, and that is unfortunate and inaccurate. Also, members often say we do not focus on the cross. To be more accurate they should say we do not fucus ONLY on the cross. Elder Holland makes it clear that the church does not use the cross as an icon or symbol for our church & explains why quite well. But he also makes it clear how we should feel towards those who do use the cross to remind them of their faith and profess their love for the Lord. The church does not teach that it is wrong to wear a cross, not at all! Whether you wear a CTR ring or a pendant with a temple steeple pointing towards heaven or a cross, or any other symbol, God knows what it means to you and why you are wearing it... And you know. I served in a very multicultural area on a full-time mission. There I grew to love people from all over the world and all religious backgrounds. Coming home from that experience, I now have a beautiful golden cross that I wear sometimes to remind me of the wonderful Christians, of many faiths, that I grew to love as well as reminding me of Christ and his love for me and my commitment to him. I also have a CTR ring, as before mentioned. Additionally I have a chain with a pendant with an engraving of 1 Timothy 6:11 to remind me to be a man of God. I also have a cartouche, made from elephant tusk ivory, with silver Arabic characters spelling my name that was given to me by a Muslim I taught, who also loves God. It reminds me who I am and what my name means, to inspire me to live up to it. My point is that if we criticize one another for what we wear to remind us of our devotion and love for the Lord then we are doing the same thing the Pharisees did to the savior multiple times during his ministry. I am grateful for all the good people in the world who love one another and treat each other with kindness and respect. The cross is a beautiful symbol of God's love and when I wear it, I do so to proclaim my devotion to him and to let others know who and what I am, just as I do with my other pendants and rings, and especially with my actions in everyday life!
Love this❤
I really enjoyed your comment 🙂
3
You're so true my dear brother. The Pharasees were fault seekers on our Savior. We're even taught to not judge but make a righteous judgment instead. Criticising other believes is taking us nowhere. We're given a gift of agency for each individual the right for him or herself.
Yes to all of this!
I think it's worth mentioning that Elder Holland's talk is about why the cross _isn't_ commonly used among Latter-day Saints, not why it _shouldn't_ be
I am an Evangelical and I have always admired Elder Holland. I have listened to him on UA-cam and other media platforms. The man is spirit filled.
That is not possible. No Mormon is Holy Spirit filled. No Mormon will become a god someday. There is only one God and He knows of no other god. He is the first and the last. It is clear.
@@danreich4320the spirit isn’t restricted to one particular religion it can be felt through people from all walks of life
@@Sunbear415if there will be no other God then why abraham became God?
@@danreich4320 based on your statement, you're close minded. You're bold statement is one lacking humility of possible incorrect thought, implying that your belief is solely corect. Though I respect you're belief I ask, what if your understanding is incorrect? You're statement suggests you know without doubt, where is YOUR literally evidence that YOU'RE right as well? This is one of the reasons I respect Jeff. He states his belief and does not bash others.
@@danreich4320 "for [your Father which is in heaven] maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
As a Latter-day Saint, I want to quote Ronald Reagan here: “The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally - not a 20 percent traitor.”
When I look at what’s happening in the world, it’s clear to me you are my ally!
I enjoy your videos and time and consideration! We need to stick together. We are going to be on the same side at the end!
Brilliant.
@@charlesmendeley9823 point well taken!
"We are going to be on the same side at the end!"
I think you know that Christians do not believe that and neither does Pastor Jeff. Your version of being on the same side in the end, is us living eternally with Jesus in the Terestrial Kingdom. Since we believe Scripture is clear about what will happen to those who have added to God's word, pretend to be prophets and who lead people away from the truth through false teaching, will be condemned. Those who follow Joseph Smith the man, in the end will join him eternally separated from God. It is only a matter of time when Pastor Jeff will, through tremendous patience and love, share these same truths to you and to his audience.
I think your comment is contentious and is the opposite of what Pastor Jeff is trying to accomplish. The quote this person gave says that we should focus on the 80 percent we find good, and not focus on the 20 percent that you find offensive. Play nice. No Latter-day Saint knows what God has in store for other believers in Jesus Christ who are members of other faiths. If you have heard members of our church state that they know where you’ll go if you aren’t a member of the church, they are wrong. It is cultural conjecture on an ambiguous point and is not scriptural or prophetic doctrine. Nor do YOU know. It is up to each person to believe in Him and let the Holy Ghost guide us in how we should act. If you feel guided away from what we believe and we end up being right, He is all-loving and all-knowing and the most fair, and you won’t be left behind. Likewise, if you are right and we are wrong, He still knows our hearts and that we believed in Jesus Christ and tried to show that by our fruits, and we won’t be left behind either. God knows your intentions, God knows our intentions. Pastor Jeff is trying to find ways to understand each other, not prove who is right and who is wrong. Being patient, tolerant and kind is important.
@@lindavalentine691 You say that “NO Latter-day Saint knows what God has in store for other believers in Jesus Christ who are members of other faiths” but then contradict what you say when you write “If you feel guided away from what we believe and we end up being right, He is all-loving and all-knowing and the most fair, and you won’t be left behind.” Believe me when I say that Christians do not believe the same for you and neither does Pastor Jeff. I promise you that one day, when he is finished with the work God has given him to study your faith, he will proclaim the truth with love that your religion is a false religion and that if you do not repent, you will die in your sins and be judged for the truth that God, through Pastor Jeff has been gracious to provide for you. Christians are praying for Pastor Jeff because we see how God is using him to you reach you guys. Mormons and Christians are not at all the same: The Book of Mormon is not another gospel of Jesus Christ; Joseph Smith was not a prophet; There aren’t three levels of heaven; There is no eternal marriage; God was not once a man who attained godhood, nor will man attain godhood and populate their own planet because there is no Celestial Kingdom. There is no heavenly mother and only the Bible is the word of God. There is so much more as an LDS member that separates you from having a real relationship with God but the point is, our differences aren’t cultural conjectures on ambiguous points, they are matters of truth v error, of life and death. Please, learn what true Christianity is about before it’s too late.
10mins in and I'd like to just clarify that for myself as a born and raised Latter-day Saint, now in my 40s, married and a mother of 4 children, the sacrament ordinance has always been a sacred reminder to me about Christ's death and sacrifice on the cross, but also a rememberance of His scourging, the mocking, all the physical pain He endured and ultimately suffered for me. Sometimes that image of Christ hanging on the cross is simultaneously transitions to the image of His suffering in Gethsemene, the olive press, where He bled at every pore, and His drops of blood had been pressed under the weight of my sins and all others. You are correct Pastor, if there is one place that the cross becomes the sole focus of my worship, it is during the sacred ordinance of the sacrament, and the main reason we pilgrimage to our chapels each Sabbath day, to return our hearts back towards Jesus Christ and His great sacrifice that noone else but the God of Israel - the Holy One of Israel Himself - could do to save us.
Appreciate your grace towards what must be a very passionate subject for you, and also what must sound very hurtful to hear. But we all have a belief and it would be disingenuous to say that we don't all have the desire to share those beliefs as they stand (claims of being the true Gospel and so forth). I hope that through our collective and individual, prayerful efforts, one day the Lord will open our eyes to discern His light more clearly, and we see Him as He is, was and always has been.
I agree with this person. Very true! We go to church and during sacrament, we do think of christs death and what he went through for mankind…
Very nicely said. We do remember Jesus Christ death. We remember him suffering on the cross when we partake of the sacrament each week and so and and so forth. I think who ever made the comment that we don’t want to remember Christ death on the cross didn’t elaborate well on that.
well said sister.
Thank you for your words, as this describes very much how I as an LDS member also feels.
So wonderfully spoken dear sister. Thank you for your thoughtful input.
What’s awesome about videos like these is that it not only helps Evangelicals understand Latter-Day Saints, but it helps Latter-Day Saints better understand Evangelicals. Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for your ministry!
We need more people, like you, who are seeking points of agreement and not contention, so that our love for each other is possible to be manifest.
I’m a 15 year old Protestant and my best friend is an LDS member and I love this because I can know what her foundations are rooted in! I have dreams to be an Assmeblies of God missionary and seeing a pastor go at a subject like this so respectfully is amazing.
And rare
+
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr that is the Apostolics and the Oneness Pentecostals.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Speaking in tongues to me means, that one is able to bear testimony of Christ to a person in their own language. I am sorry, but babbling sounds reminds me of evil spirits. JMO.
Respect for wanting to bring your beliefs to others. I may not agree with your beliefs but wanting to enlighten others to what is better for them I respect fully. Study and pray for understandings and carry light to the world.
I’m LDS, and I really like the perspectives you shared about the cross. I’m not surprised you’ve gotten as many different kinds of answers as you have from Latter-day Saints. Everyone is on a different level in their knowledge and understanding, and sometimes people just come up with their own explanations.
For myself, I don’t see the Garden of Gethsemane as equivalent or competitive with the cross. I see it as part of a process which, altogether, constitutes the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I think the last supper was even part of it, as he introduced the sacrament. You might even argue that his entire life was part of the Atonement, as the sacrifice required an unblemished lamb.
Specifically for Gethsemane, though, I think that’s where the sacrificial preparations took place. He wasn’t praying all night just asking his Father to take the cross from him. His suffering began there, and it concluded on the cross, followed three days later by his victory over death through resurrection.
I was thinking this too! I'm glad for this comment.
To me, the Garden of Gethsemane is where we see Jesus' suffering begin. That heaviness He tells the apostles of. He begins to be alone despite pleading for those who were there to stay awake and be with Him. He takes on that heaviness alone. He feels that pressure descend upon Him there in the place of the olive press so much that He bleeds from every pore. This is the beginning of His death. His physical body, coupled with His spirit, was already beginning to suffer beyond what man could ever suffer.
To my mind this is the condition Jesus is in when he heals the ear that was cut off, and endures the betrayal kiss, then the judgement and condemnation of man. Then he continues to add to the burden he must ultimately bear, but even at this point He is only still alive because of his divinity as God's literal Son. In this condition Jesus endures the scourging, the thorns, the ridicule, the heavy weight of carrying the cross Himself before He is finally at the top of the hill where He is nailed to it. Then of course He hangs in agony and still offers forgiveness and counsel. When it is finished, it is so because I believe Jesus deems it time and ultimately chooses to give His life.
Gethsemane to me is the beginning of the whole process Jesus endured, all of it together as a whole picture. Beginning in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus' suffering was heavier and deeper and more profound than anything mankind could endure. A mortal would have died in the garden. He allowed himself to suffer beyond that to complete the entire process of spiritual and physical atonement for us.
To Latter Day Saints the significance of the Garden of Gethsemane is the beginning of the first part of the atonement of Jesus Christ. To me it isn't just His preparation for the suffering He knows is coming, but rather the actual beginning of His suffering, not competing for significance with the cross. To me it is all one unbelievable, unfathomable, thing carried out by the Divine over a period of time. This being the first part.
resurrection
This is actually one of my favorite videos of yours Pastor Jeff. Very respectful and informative and accurate for both sides. I love learning the “why” of your beliefs without feeling like you’re trying to prove us wrong.
I'm LDS and have been my whole life. I wear a cross quite often. It reminds me that he died for me so shape up lol! I think the cross can mean different things to different people and have never felt like I'm not allowed to wear it even though we don't have crosses in our church building
Really, as a converted saint the first thing members told me to take down my stone cross on the wall and not to wear crosses full stop.
@@gowanderlustwithme I think there was a time where the church was definitely trying to not be associated with the Catholic church for sure, and thats where a lot of that stemmed from. I remember sometimes as a kid hearing that we "dont wear crosses" or use them, etc. Whereas now I think people are over that and don't really care because there is literally nothing wrong and everything right with the cross. Especially if its helping remind you of your Savior.
I'm a member of the LDS church and I like it when people wear crosses! When I see that symbol, before I've even met them, I know they are my brs and sisters in Christ!
I feel the same way. Was the fish sign used intentionally the same way? If anyone knows.
Thank you! I agree, and I'm also LDS.
LDS and I feel the same way.
As a non LDS...Thank you!
If Christ was executed by firing squad, would you wear a gun like people wear crosses?
Great video. As a Latter Day Saint, I don't view the cross as a torture device, but rather see it as a symbol that identifies mainstream Christianity. As we believe we have the restored gospel, I think there is an element of being different that we embrace, and this is one small way we do that (obviously not the entire reason that we don't embrace wearing crosses, but might play into it). I think the evangelical teachings about the cross are beautiful and something we can all learn from.
The words "torture device" remind me of Jehovah Witness teachings. Their bible translation literally reads "torture stake" at one point. I apologize and I know that it's not that relevant to your comment, but it just brought back some memories of when I was an investigator attending different churches.
This is a good point. We do want to be distinct from mainstream Christianity because of the doctrines that are taught by them that are “philosophies of men mingled with scripture” rather than prophetic interpretation of scripture.
I absolutely agree with this!
This is kinda what I see it as. We just want to be different from mainstream Christianity, because our Church IS different. Not using the cross might just be more of a conversation starter than a real deep doctrinal reason.
It was a torture device and the people Jesus invited to pick up their cross and follow him were exposed to the realities of that torture device. Knowing this helps me understand the weight of His invitation. He is asking us to crucify the parts of us that keep us from following Him fully.
Pastor Jeff, this is another one of your videos I have enjoyed watching. I was raised LDS my entire life and although not active now I still believe and follow most, if not all of its teachings.. I have my reasons for changing the way I worship as an adult, but elements of the LDS church doctrine will always be with me. Turning to Elder Holland's talk, I want to commend you for the respect you showed discerning his comments and providing your feedback. I can tell you that I have never known or met a man who embodies the love of the Savior greater than he does. He was the President of Brigham Young University when I attended and I got to know him intimately. What he speaks he believes with every fiber of his being. He has studied the Bible and the various books of LDS doctrine to a degree that most on this planet will never match. I'm glad he was able to provide more light and understanding for you and others who are curious about LDS beliefs in regard to Christ and more specifically the cross. I now wear one occasionally as well because I think it's a beautiful symbol for the world to see. (Mormons wear their symbols of faith typically under their clothing as I'm sure you've heard.) Again, thanks for trying to understand and appreciate the differences.
An absolutely fantastic video, Pastor Jeff, as always! I grew up and was raised Roman Catholic, where the Cross and Crucifixes are both very, very heavily present in the iconography of the Church. As I watch this video, I am looking around and seeing Crosses and Crucifixes I have hanging around my room from when I was Catholic. I used to wear a Cross as well, quite often. When I joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, my opinion of the Cross and its importance as an icon of Christianity was not diminished in the least - I still recognize the importance of the Cross, and the Cross is referenced in numerous places throughout the Book of Mormon. I am just so thankful for my Savior, Jesus Christ, and I am eternally and infinitely grateful for the loving sacrifice that took place both in Gethsemane and on the Cross. I, personally, see nothing wrong with assigning importance to the Cross as far as iconography and Christian symbolism is concerned, whether you are a Latter-day Saint or otherwise. Again my friend, excellent work, and I cannot wait for your next video!!!
Pastor Jeff, I 100% see you as a brother in Christ. And I thank you for helping me be more thoughtful in my personal relationship with the Savior as a Latter Day Saint. God bless you.
I totally agree. I feel Paster Jeff's light as well. Bless you Paster Jeff for your thoughtful, respectful and insightful reviews.
Great video. One minor clarification: LDS church members believe that Christ suffered for our sins in Gethsemane AND on the cross. Not just in the garden of Gethsemane. Again, great video! I appreciate your reaction! I am glad your video illustrates the similarities members of the LDS church has with our fellow Christians!
Was going to say this!
Without getting lost... and missing the Mark... I think that neither the Garden of Gethsemene, the trial, the cross, or the tomb have any power unto salvation. It is Christ who has born the weight of sin and who heals and Saves us. That said... all symbols that help point to Christ and help us remember and reverence and worship Him... are valuable and even desirable and right or good. The point is... Christ.
Yes
Yes. Jesus Christ's death on the cross *sealed the deal* so to speak.
I was told that if Christ had not died on the cross the atonement in the garden would be for naught. You are right the death on the cross was the sealing of the deal
I enjoy your videos... I'm from a devout Protestant upbringing. I discovered and joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 50 years at age 18.
Your genuine sincerity and profound respect I'm witnessing in your videos for me are accurately identifying and clarifying the doctrinal points where we dis-agree; and for the reason I respect you so much... where we do agree.
I was raised and live in the south, heart of the Bible Belt, and have always understood those differences. All too often I have been saddened when too often my mostly Protestant friends genuinely mis-understand those differences. It’s rare that we have the time and propensity to engage in deep discussion to identify those differences as you are doing, but when we do, we understand better where and from what perspectives we approach doctrinal points differently. And almost always come to realize that we have MUCH more in common than may have been understood previously.
My greatest respect for you is that your honest and respectful fleshing out of those differences; and in so doing are shedding a light onto the things we see and embrace similarly, if not the same. And most of all, allowing a wider audience of friends to see our devotion to Jesus Christ, the same Jesus Christ that we both embrace as our Savior.
The days are rapidly approaching when Christians across the spectrum of believers will need to stand arm in arm in the battle against the rising tidal waves of evil that continue to head our way. Your ministry is helping prepare that wider brother and sisterhood of believers to be ready for that day.
You would make one heck of a great BYU Religion Professor. Don’t be surprised if you’re asked to lecture as a visiting Bible scholar there someday.
I hope your congregation realizes how blessed they are to have you as their Pastor… I suspect they do… I look forward to your future videos…
As an LDS member myself I LOVE and appreciate your advice given to us around the 10-11 minute mark of why it's important to remember Christ in death as well as resurrection. I have heard this line of thinking plenty and even from my own parents even though it never felt right to me. I appreciate a fresh perspextive of what that might look like to any newcomers or other Christians, and I DON'T think any member should feel they can't take advice from you just because you don't believe in everything they do. I appreciate and agree with your perspective of these things. Thank you!
I joined the church when I was 18. (1974) I have never heard anyone ever say not to wear crosses. Also I have never heard the thing about the torture device. Weird. So, they aren’t used as other churched do, but there is no ban on them. My perspective is that how you live is more important than what you wear. You may use a cross, I may use the temple. But we both love and follow the Savior. Thanks for the videos
Try wearing a necklace with. Cross on it to Sacrament meeting a few time. You’ll hear about it then.🎉
@@patricianoel7782 I saw people at church today with crosses on.
@@fhamilton6788 oookay. I stand corrected
You probably wouldn't hear anything (if you wore a cross to an LDS church) nowadays, but I can tell you I sure did back in the early 1990s when I attended BYU. I had a cross necklace that I sometimes wore and definitely got pushback. It was polite and I'm sure well-meaning, but it was there.
@@lydiacs7789 , college kids are still learning the finer points of adult living and are sometimes more black and white in their views than adults at a later age. Could this be why you got pushback at BYU?
Pastor, your point about the sacrament is spot on! We remember His death EVERY WEEK! May we never forget it. May we always remember Him.
With water, wine, or grape juice?
I am so grateful for these videos. It is so healing and restorative. I feel like God our Father and His Son Jesus Christ are uniting us at last; three branches of Saints. Christians, Catholics, and The Church of Jesus Christ as One. Grafting us all into the olive tree. into deeper covenantal relationship with Christ.
The burning bush was a tree, the cross was a tree, the tree of life is a tree, the true vine is a tree, all representative of the pure love of Christ, the Body of Christ, the flesh and the blood of Christ, the sacrament, bread and wine/juice/water. We are the family of God. We are His children.
Our Father in heaven, bless us, that we may become One in Thee. United, in the name of Thy Son, Jesus Christ. 🙏🏼
Jerome, there is only 1 church and 1 body. We cannot be one because two of these "religions" do NOT agree 100% on Scripture. Catholics pray to Mary and uphold her over Jesus and are idol worshipers , LDS worships a Jesus born to the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and that Satan is Jesus' brother. These things are in sharp CONTRAST to the teachings of the Bible. You are loved but you must follow the true Christ and not the POPE and not Joseph Smith.
This felt respectful, honest, and thought-provoking. It's great timing, too, as we move toward Easter. Thank you!
Hi Pastor!! I love your channel. I'm a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from Methodistism! I misunderstood the churches teaching on the cross! After this talk I started wearing my cross jewelry again!
Thank you for your example of thoughtful, curious, and charitable religious dialogue.
After finishing my BYU years, I attended grad school on the east coast and typically had a weekly bible study with fellow students (both Catholic and Protestant). During the course of a 45 min conversation, there were always a few brief moments when someone would encounter a belief that didn’t resonate with their own - but there wasn’t any need to get hung up on the occasional scratch sound when we had so much good scriptural music to take in.
I can tell you had one or two of those moments during the talk, but appreciate you staying peacefully grounded in your own convictions while taking in the good that Elder Holland had to offer. You were able to understand and appreciate our faith a little more clearly - and your thoughtful feedback provides some useful insight and emphasis for an LDS audience. Well done.
As to your question to be answered in an upcoming video:
All of our hope for peace and eternal life depended on Christ’s redeeming sacrifice. We may sometimes give undue emphasis to our own path of progress, rather than remembering his path of atonement; but without him, we have no path at all. Every covenant we make from the sacrament to baptism to temple sealings at an altar includes symbolic reference to his death.
I know you’ve already read it, but a Book of Mormon prophet (Jacob) gave a two-day sermon on Christ’s atonement and why he died for us. Excerpts from that sermon are in 2Nephi 9-10. That’s where I think you’ll find some of our clearest doctrine on the subject, even while we are imperfect in remembering and living it.
Well stated....your message and understanding to clarify truth, yet senceativity to others points of views is profoundly stated...
Elder Holland clearly defines the doctrinal value that Latter-day Saints SHOULD put on the value and importance of both Christ's DEATH and resurrection. Whether or not A member feels different is their peragative, but not Church doctrine.
So well stated! Without Him, and his atonement, we are nothing. Regardless of doctrinal differences, let us always keep our eye focused on Christ and who the true foundation of the church is (and when I refer to "the church", I'm referring to all of Christianity).
Thank you so much for this video! I’m a Latter-day Saint and I’ve been working my way through all the videos on your channel. I appreciate so much your kindness and willingness to learn about our faith and I love learning about yours. Thank you for taking the time to explain your beliefs and perspective - I’ve learned so much! With regards to the cross, I don’t think I’ve ever consciously tried to not focus on Jesus’ death. As you pointed out in the video, we specifically remember it during Sacrament meeting. I guess I’ve just always thought about both events - (Gethsemane and the Crucifixion) as belonging together - two parts of a whole. Not sure if that’s doctrinally accurate, but that’s been the way I view it.
Well said Jeff. The Atonement started in the garden and was completed in the resurrection. As an LDS member, I am taught, and I teach, every step (The garden, the scourging, the cross and death, the resurrection) that the Savior took was critical to our redemption and must be remembered.
Unfortunately you are wrong and that is NOT the atonement. The LDS is accepting a false gospel from the false church when you teach this. Joseph Smith was told in his vision that they were wrong and not to follow them. You are saved by love and not death. You are saved by loving God and loving others. Evangelicals say that is wrong, based on Luther’s theology of ‘saved by faith.’ Let me be clear, you are saved by the Holy Spirit filling you with God’s love and by living a life of love. There is a difference. The LDS is much closer to the truth than the Protestant church.
@@geoattoronto Saved BY loving God? Or saved by A loving God? Absolutely, there is a difference.
Forget, Luther. (Btw I am Lutheran) What do you do with Paul’s words in the book of Galatians?
Thank you so much for your insight! The comment that "we don't want to remember His death" I hope was just a poor choice of words by the commenter. I agree completely with your reply - His death is VERY much a part of our faith (Latter Day Saint, here). Thank you for your respectful handling of this whole series - I find myself waiting for your next chapter! ALSO..I loved your discussion on the cross at the end. Maybe it's because I was raised in a main-stream Protestant church before joining the Saints, but I did not disagree with any of your points and appreciated your clarifications. Good job, Paster Jeff! Keep rockin' it, please!
Where do you preach? I would be interested is coming to hear you.
I wholeheartedly agree with this commentor! Your videos are always excellent. I love the integrity that you always exhibit when it is different from mainstream Christianity.
I agree that whoever said “we don’t want to remember his death” does not represent 99.999% of the church.
Even if he had used another word that would have been more appropriate, you still cannot have his thoughts represent the majority of the church. I think it would help to not put random comments from an individual member of the church on the same level as the words from Elder Holland, who speaks on behalf of the church.
That, especially goes for the comment someone made about not hanging their gun on the wall. Another random comment should not be taken to represent the members of the church.
We also love the use of symbolism, they go hand-in-hand with the parables that Jesus taught. And the symbol could give us reminders Of a principal. I so enjoy hearing your perspectives and appreciate your curiosity.❤
I agree with you. It would be hard to even open my mouth if I knew my every word was being critiqued. I appreciate what pastor Jeff is doing. I really do. But sometimes videos like this , aren’t always helpful. The spirit of Elder Holland’s words are what’s important here.
As a member of the Jesus Christ of latter-day saints, we focus more on the risen Christ, because it is a symbol of the entire sacrifice He did for us. The cross was only part of it. But the cross is still a beautiful reminder of all He has done for us. But for me personally, I love the picture of the risen Christ with his wounds in His hands and feet, with His arms stretched out towards me, asking me to come to Him. That picture of Him shows the pain He went through for me, but also the Joy and hope for a better life with Him, because of what He had to endure.
So, while the cross is not a bad thing, it just does not show the full picture in my mind. But the risen Christ with his wounds does.
But I love to see my fellow Christians wear their cross and show their devotion to our savior.
I completely agree. I don't wear a cross myself. However, I've purchased a cross as a gift for my best friend, who is Catholic.
Thank you so much for your Objective review of the Latter-day Saint view of the Cross. You are exactly right that we, weekly, through the sacrament, seek to remember the suffering of Jesus Christ in completing the atonement on our behalf. I, personally, consider regularly what my Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, suffered for me! As is the case in any church, we do not all understand perfectly the doctrine that we believe. I am so thankful for my Savior's atonement, both his suffering for sin, and his overcoming death through resurrection. Thank you again.
Thank you for giving an honest, open hearted review of our Church. I've been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints my entire life. I love my Savior. We love our fellow Christians, and wish more of our fellow Christians would love us too. We are in the last days and we need each other more than ever before.
Our church members are not always perfect in their practice of remembering the Savior, thank you for encouraging us to remember His death. That is very important, and can be done alongside remembering His resurrection. I agree with that.
Jeff - I LOVE what you are saying at 10:00. As a Latter-Day Saint I love remembering the cross and what He did for all of us. I’m speaking in sacrament meeting on Easter Sunday representing the Bishopric and the heart of my talk is centered on the suffering He bore during both the betrayal, the trial, scourging and hours spent on the cross. LDS people for sure should learn from what you are saying. My buddy wears a cross and has been LDS his entire life. For me it’s a symbol of Christ and reminds me of the price he paid. Ultimately, we celebrate the victory over death and the empty tomb, but should never forget the suffering and grief he endured to arrive at that moment.
* * * Good luck on your talk, brother. I hope the Spirit will be able to speak through you. I remembered many moons ago when I got converted I got the Melchizedek priesthood on Easter Sunday ... pretty spiritual day
I think you would love to read Athanasius epistle On the Incarnation as well as Bishop Ignatius epistles to the Churches. He writes some amazing things. They are in the collection known as the Apostolic Fathers. It follows right after the New Testament and most of the writers were directly appointed by the twelve Apostles.
Latter-day Saint here. Loved your thoughts around minute 10. It is the whole picture...what happened in the garden of Gethsemane, the cross and the miracle of his resurrection. It only amplifies my love and gratitude for my Savior, who did that all for me.
Thanks, Pastor Jeff for your fair analysis of Elder Holland’s words about the cross! The member that said that we don’t want to remember Christ’s death isn’t something I’ve ever heard before. We partake of the sacrament each week to remember his suffering in the Garden as well as on the cross and his death which makes it possible for us to be cleansed on our sins so we can return to the presence of God one day. We also of course honor His glorious gift of the resurrection.
Honestly it really just comes down to culture. My angelic wife still wears her cross from before she was a member of the church and no one begrudges her for it. We recognize what it means to her. Anyone could where the cross if they felt the desire to do so.
What church was she apart of before?
Agree - it’s probably more culture on both sides than some deep doctrinal difference. I don’t think Jesus would be upset with using the cross as a symbol among so many other symbols in the lds church. We tend to find more value in symbols of the living Christ than symbols of his death, but sacrament is certainly a weekly emblem of his body and blood which he gave for us that we return to weekly also. It’s great for believers on both sides to find opportunities like this to understand because we have so much in common and to share
Watching Hello Saints on Sunday counts as my third hour of sacrament meeting! (:
My third hour is only about 30mins hehe
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, I am always touched when my protestant friends give me a gift with a cross on it. I know what a precious symbol it is and the deep meaning behind it. My close friend recently gifted my daughter a bible with a cross on the cover, and it has a prominent location on our scripture shelf.
I love these discussions because they engender understanding. Thank you. If you were to ask several individuals what the cross means to them, I’m sure you would get a variety of (hopefully) personal responses-and I love seeing what other people see-in conclusion, for any Christian, it is truly significant, and his triumph over death truly remarkable. One of my favorite quotes is, “Against the medals and monuments of centuries of men’s fleeting victories stands the only monument necessary to mark eternal triumph: an empty garden tomb.” For others, that reminder of victory is the cross. Or the garden. Or the lives of Christian people. All things denote there is a God, and I especially love those that point directly to His Son, especially in today’s crazy world. I’m seeing a unity of Christians to testify of Him. ❤
I enjoyed your video. I am LDS and I pondered your comments about the cross. It has always been, in my opinion, just to add to Elder Holland, that the suffering which took place in the Garden of Gethsemane could Only be done by Christ our Savior. Being the only begotten of God, he suffered for all the sins of the world and bled from every pore. No one else could possibly do that. That was His mission . That's what he was sent here to do. If we choose to follow Him we are baptized and every week as we partake of the Sacrament it is a reminder of the suffering that only He could do for each one of God's children. That is what the atonement is and why it is my focus. There have been many people hung brutally on the cross till their death but only Christ could do what he did for each one of us. You have great insight. Thank you.
We wouldn't have the resurrection without the cross. Another great video, thank you 💜💜
Wow! I just came across your videos by chance, and as a life long active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I would like to say I absolutely love this! I appreciate hearing how our church is perceived by other faiths. It is so easy to get into our “echo chambers “ and only hear our own voice speaking back. I also 100% agree, that though our details in religion may vary, I believe our core beliefs in Christ are similar, and I love that you are opening a dialogue to not only explain but you are taking a the added step of listening to understand. You are a true example and one that I can only hope to emulate! Thank you for these!
Pre existence? There are too many inconsistencies.
Joseph Smith ideas are taken from so many sources as proven by Sandra Tanner and so many others.
LDD folks are great, but I've read so much of the Book of Mormon teachings, and there's too much conflict with the Scriptures.
The Bible is the Word of God and additions (as the pearl of great price). I believe they are not scriptures .
From a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, thank you for an honest and respectful discussion of our differences.
I'd just like to say thank you for getting "preachy" - you have a gift for teaching and your insights and doctrine are very much appreciated by this Later-Day Saint
Concerning Gethsemane, I was taught that in Gethsemane is where He took upon Himself the sins of world. In Leviticus it describes how the priest would place his hands on the sheep's head to transfer the sins of Israel onto the sheep for the atonement sacrifice. Then the animal would be sacrificed. Likewise, in Gethsemane the sins of the world was transferred upon Christ, He being the lamb, then He was sacrificed on the cross - just as the sheep described in Leviticus was, being a similitude of Christ's sacrifice. As a Latter-day Saint I don't think we give Gethsemane any greater importance than the cross but realize that they are 2 parts of the atonement. Each part being necessary for the other to be valid. Christ had to take upon himself the sins of the world for the atonement to be valid; likewise, he also had to be sacrificed on the cross for the atonement to be valid.
Daron Baird Thank you so much for sharing this. I had never looked at it like that before. It is wonderful to learn something new.
Thank you for all I learn on your channel. I asked God once about wearing a cross because I have a cross in every room.His answer surprised me. "No, because wearing it as jewelry, trivializes Christ's suffering."
Love all your thoughts here, Pastor! As an active Latter-day Saint, sometimes I do think we get caught up in talking points like the comments you'd referenced that we get used to saying, but we don't consider their meaning. We do indeed remember Christ's death in our Sacrement service, we do revere his sacrifice, and many of our sacrament hymns heavily lean on the scene at Golgotha to put us in that frame of mind before taking the Sacrament. As for me, I do personally embrace the Latter-day Saint practice of not using the symbol of the cross in the same way greater Christianity does, but I don't see any reason why we should equate that to thinking that the use of and reference to the cross as a sacred symbol is inherently wrong when we see it elsewhere. I personally love seeing it as a means of identifying fellow believers, and outward expressions of faith. Your perspective is both instructive and appreciated!
Once, again, thank-you. I appreciate your interest in bridging the divide that often exists between our communities. I have heard many people share their ideas about why we don't uses crosses, but ultimately, I suggest it's as much, if not more cultural than doctrinal in our non-use of the cross. As Elder Holland explained early in the talk, there's really nothing wrong with the cross iconography, it's just that we haven't made it a part of our faith. I think that's really the extent of it. I think everyone has their own ideas about why, but the fact is we are both focusing on Christ, His sacrifice, and being more like him'
Pastor thank you for reminding all Latter Day Saints that we must never forget, Jesus suffering on the cross. We sing, pray and talk about it all the time it is central to our belief. I want to say the opposite and tell you I think of it often. One of our Prophets put it best: "No member of this Church must ever forget the terrible price paid by our Redeemer, who gave His life that all men might live-the agony of Gethsemane, the bitter mockery of his trial, the vicious crown of thorns tearing at his flesh, the blood cry of the mob before Pilate, the lonely burden of his heavy walk along the way to Calvary, the terrifying pain as great nails pierced his hands and feet . . . This was the cross, the instrument of His torture, the terrible device designed to destroy the Man of Peace. . . We cannot forget that.
President Hinckley
I think this was one of your best videos yet. As a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, I have grown up with the “culture” of explanations about why we don’t use the cross. And now as an adult I am unlearning those things and recognizing the culture vs. the doctrine. I don’t like those explanations either, like about the gun, or that we don’t want to remember the cross/death, when that’s exactly what we promise to do every week and all the time. While we definitely still have some things we don’t totally agree on, I’m not quite understanding your take on the garden of gethsemane, we have so much in common, and I love learning more from your perspective. It helps me strengthen my testimony and relationship with my Savior. So thank you so much, I learned a lot hearing your perspective. And I loved this talk by Elder Holland so much!
I’m LDS and I love watching your videos because I love these conversations on how we have so much in common when it comes to the love of the Lord. Elder Holland says that the cross is not our focus but we have many who do wear crosses and my daughter is one of them. It’s just not a focus. But I love those who do and don’t. It doesn’t really matter to me. Because it’s a personal choice. An outward expression of the inner commitment of following the Savior. Which I do by wearing my garments. Any reminder is good to me! Thanks for all you are doing. I love learning more about all Christian faiths. We are all Gods children so we should come together more often and be united.
Great video! I wouldn’t say we don’t want to remember his death (because we absolutely think of that and consider it important, even to the point in having it in our sacramental prayers). However, my own perspective is that perhaps where that thought was leading towards is that we often desire to remember His overall victory that He won for all of us
Very well said. I know for myself, sometimes when I try to explain my thoughts, what I say doesn't come across as clearly as I want it to be. Maybe the other person's comment was worded not as completely correct as he wanted it to be. Jeff, I am enjoying your videos very much. I love learning more about your faith as where I live, there are not many Advengelical congregations.
As a member of the LDS church, recently we discussed this talk by Elder Holland in a study class, and I watched your previous video on/talking about this subject. I've come to realize that while there are traditions that seem to point us away from the cross, there is no commandment or rule that prohibits it. Sadly the "traditions of our fathers" have even given license to cause others to feel shame for wearing a cross in our church.
I've come to realize in my many years that regardless of the symbol or practice - if our goal is to knock each other down it is not of Christ, and if it is to lift each other up, the fruits show that it is of Christ.
LDS kids are given "CTR" rings to remember to choose the right, they are given rings with temples on them to remind them to stay worthy to enter the temple, as you mentioned we wear garments with symbols in them. There is no commandment or teaching saying that it is wrong to wear a cross and if it brings comfort, peace, or lifts you up to Christ, then it is a good thing. I would even recommend a member of my church wear one if it helped them.
Thanks for a great video series.
Richard, I agree with your comments except for the shame... I don't know of anyone who would shame a ember for wearing a cross...No Not One.
@@29darbsj yeah that's weird. No way is that a "tradition"
Great video! I really appreciate your demeanor and approach to learning about the LDS church. I’ve seen all your videos now and consider you a prime example of how to approach other religions. Although I may not fully agree with all of your interpretations of my beliefs, it’s wonderful to see someone make a true, good-faith effort to learn and understand.
I’d like to suggest the channel “Latter Day Saint Q&A” for you to check out in your free time. I feel like after seeing all your videos and hearing the types of questions and concerns you have, this channel would be a nice reference for you. I know you would appreciate the study and effort this man put into these videos and would undoubtedly enhance your learning experience.
Again, I love what you are doing. Thanks for being a light in a world that needs more love, civility, and understanding that we are all God’s children. Love and respect good sir.
I hope you may be able to explain to me the LDS’ doctrine of us all being Gods children. As I read the Bible, I noticed that Jesus said the Pharisees were children of the devil, if I am remembering correctly. What did he mean?
@@GrandmaKnightLife that they were in rebellion to God, giving themselves over to the adversary.
I just wanted to say Thank you for your time to explain your love and devotions to the Cross. As a Latter-day Saint, I have many friends of many different faiths that have asked me why I don't wear the cross. I have pondered that, I have listened to Elder Hollands talk and many others on this topic, but what the spirit has led me to believe in addition to what Elder Holland is that when I was baptized, I made a covenant with Jesus Christ (a two way promise). I promised to Take upon myself his name, to always remember him, and to keep his commandments. Heavenly Father has promised me remission of sins through this ordinance and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. I remember the Cross every time I take the sacrament, I reverently remember his sacrifice, the atoning blood, and Jesus Christ overcoming death thru his resurrection. I am grateful knowing he broke the bands of death so we too can be resurrected and live with our Father in Heaven one day. I had heard the analogy before that "I wouldn't wear the gun that shot my son, father, etc." I personally do not think that way as much as my ability to maintain the holy spirit within my being shows my willingness to follow him, and to keep his commandment. Many times I have felt that someone's behavior wasn't deserving of wearing the cross but they were using it as a way of deception. Like a wolf in sheep's clothing. But at the same time I too have found my behavior not showing my obedience or my love of the Savior either. I try not to judge. When I do see that I have sinned, I am quickly brought to remember that covenant and repent. So my way of wearing or bearing the cross personally, is to take the sacrament, repent, and continue to try and become as the Savior is. I love your humility as you compare and appreciate your insight as well.
Beautifully done, Pastor Jeff. I can't tell you how much I look forward to your videos. Thank you for responding to this talk by Elder Holland and providing the link to that talk.
Thank you for doing your part in bringing people to Christ.
Thank You Pastor Jeff, for all you do to help all of us to love, support and strengthen one another.
I just want to take a moment to thank you so very much for taking the interest and effort to educate the general population about our religion. So many times we are attacked, been given stigmas and called cult members for practicing our religion. I am a convert raised during my childhood as a active southern baptist and converted during my last year of high school. Because of this decision my family disowned me and are mad at me for doing this and raising my kids in the church. I did it for the same reason Joseph Smith did it. I didn’t feel complete and I never seen a church where it’s members followed scripture so closely. As a southern Baptist I seen a lot and I mean a lot of what we called the Sunday thumpers. Holy and devote on Sunday but Monday through Saturday it was a different story. Tithing was a maybe at the most ya had a 50 50 chance they would do it or not which by the way isnt our rules, its Gods rule on tithing and nobody was out going door to door trying to teach the scriptures to people. The most important to me however, was their Family values. They are off the chart and out of this world!!!! Siblings actually love and care for each other even when no one is looking , kids honor and obey their parents and their parents are wonderful parents, they don’t drink or smoke they devote one day a week to family time where they do something together and there is no cussing or profanity. Hanging out with the guys there’s no talk of sexual conduct over the weekend and there’s no big boob naked girls hanging over cars on their walls in their house or garage. To me it was the most beautiful thing i had ever seen in my lifetime and the closest thing I’ve ever seen to people actually living as it’s said to live in the Scriptures. There was no hesitation for me to convert and become a mormon or as we say a Latter day Saint. ! I always wanted to be surrounded by people that actually lived as the Bible said to live and I always wanted to be surrounded by people who thought and felt the way I did . It warms my heart knowing this is the environment for which my children will grow up in. It has been disheartening by the response of my family and the public on these matters. I have been called a pedophile asking why I believe in marring underage girls , why I enjoy having multiple wives, why I worship Jospeh Smith and why do I enjoy being a cult member. It disgusts me that 1 people would say and think these things about me and 2 this is what people actually believe we do in our church when it’s furthest from the truth. Every organization has a small group of mentally unstable people that just don’t acclimate to society well and go off and do extreme things and unfortunately for us the people who do this tie our name to their organization when they have nothing to do with our church yet this is the only aspect the public sees because it’s on the news and so forth, and so enters the stigma‘s and the accusations. You are the first person I’ve ever seen, actually make a valiant effort to keep an open mind and come to find out for yourself, and not only that but turn around and then take it back to the public, and educate them on the truth. We are not horrible people, we do not abuse our children and we don’t believe in polygamy. It’s hard enough having to live with one wife why on earth would anybody want to live with multiple wives at the same time. Ugh that would be a nightmare. And the accusation of us. Worshiping Joseph Smith, a man just like you and me ridiculous. The accusation doesn’t bother me, but what bothers me is that it takes away from our devotion to who we actually worship, and that’s Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father so they disrespect them by accusing us of that! We even have people that come to our church on Sunday during service, every so often protesting, yelling, screaming, scaring our children and these people call themselves Christians. That act alone is the furthest from Christianity. One could ever do and on a day that was observed to be holy so it’s rather hypocritical, and if anything shows the true content of their heart and their character. We would never do anything like that to any other church we respect other churches, and those that follow other religions so why is it so hard for them to respect us? It’s ridiculous they degrade us yet were the first church they come to in their time of need when they need rent paid or their electric bill paid we’re accused of miss handling our funds from our tithing when in reality we are known on the national stage, and have won awards for being the leader in emergency response and assistance during natural disasters often being the first people on the ground even before the red cross so their accusations are without merit. Sorry, this is so long, but again, I want to thank you for being one of the pioneers of other religions to give us the benefit of the doubt and take the effort to find out who we are and then tell the world so thank you. Thank you very much and God Bless I am now your newest subscriber!! Be safe, stay healthy and God Bless!!
The sincerity in your words moved me. Thank you. Thank you for helping me to see how beautiful the cross is. And also the beauty in the Bible. I wish we could all be on the same team. How much power we would have on the hate Satan stirs up if we all looked to Christ together and lifted each Christian sect up. This is actually the first time I’ve commented on a video in over a decade. How on earth did you think to start a channel like this?? Wow, frank, yet kind. Firm in your convictions. Very well balanced in bringing out the truth that we love in each of our religions. Thank you again for making me feel less alone and hated in a world of overwhelming negativity.
So this is the first time I have commented on one of your videos. As I was pondering the things I was feeling I realized that the Lord’s final act here on earth can be broken down to four parts and each of those parts are as important as the other. That without each one the others couldn’t have full effect.
1) The last supper- was the Lord fulfilling of the Law of Moses and of Animal Sacrifice, to bring in the New Law of The Gospel and of personal sacrifice, that of a Broken Heart and Contrite Spirit. A more personal and meaningful relationship with Jesus Christ. We remember this event each time we renew our Baptismal Covenants when we partake of the Sacrament.
2) The Garden of Gathsemane was where the Lord took on our sins and trials and suffered to the point of bleeding from every pore. Yes a very important event for which I have great reverence. His atonement was for all of us. For us this is gift of repentance and reconciliation to our Father in heaven with the Savior being our mediator with the Father and is central to our belief and hope.
3) The trial and crucifixion is where the Lord suffered and fulfilled prophecy, he suffered death for all of us so that we could live again. This is where we recieved the gift of his ultimate Love and sacrifice. The marks in his hands and feet are a symbol most sacred to me.
4) The resurrection at the tomb for which as the only begotten of the Father, only he had the godly power to do. That we all could have the gift of resurrection realized for all of us.
I am very grateful for all of the parts of his greatest gift, and hold them most dear. I may not personally wear the cross but have no issues with the symbol others may see in it, nor of the comfort it brings them.
I don't think I would say that the atonement took place in the garden of Gethsemane. It was kind of multiphased. I would say it began in the garden, continued on the cross and culminated at the tomb with the resurrection. But that's how I understand it.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I came across your channel and have been very impressed by your ability to be open, honest, while being kind and respectful. Your approach makes me think of something that President Nelson said in April 2023 General Conference. “As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with others - especially when we have differences of opinion,” he said. “One of the easiest ways to identify a true follower of Jesus Christ is how compassionately that person treats other people.” Thank you for how you treat others and for modeling positive ways to treat others that may or may not agree with you!
I appreciate your good faith counsel to move away from the language of "not wanting to remember Christ for his death" because, like you stated, we have been commanded to remember his death, his sacrifice, so we remember what great gift was given and we orient our lives towards the one who gave that matchless gift.
As a member of the church my whole life I have realized that individual understanding varies greatly and I honor the journey of understanding you are on. At the end of the day I truly feel that though we may disagree on some things, you are a brother in Christ and I am uplifted by your faith and testimony.
Atheist to LDS convert. I continued to wear a cross even after having watched this talk. I try to remember to take it off before church because I get confused looks at my pendant and I can tell they want to say something about it. I wear it to feel close to my faith. I like wearing an icon symbol of Christianity because that's what I am. I enjoy that it brings faithful conversation at work when I'm one on one with patients. That commonality Is important especially because atheism is so prevalent . Also. I am not endowed yet. I don't get to be reminded of sacred covenants in that way. When I feel overwhelmed at work I can step away. Place my hand on my cross. And remember Jesus's sacrifice and it makes me cry and reminds me I can get through the day. Physical touch is a grounding technique. Something tangible to bring you back to your core values. My best friend is bOrn LDS and he says I can still wear it even though most members don't.
Elizabeth Rose That was beautiful about when you feel overwhelmed by life that you can touch your cross and find comfort. Thank you for sharing.
Elizabeth Rose I am also a life long member of the church and can assure you that your best friend is correct, you can (and should) continue to wear your cross. There is nothing in the teachings of the church that says we cannot use the cross as a symbol of our faith. I hope you forget to take it off more frequently before church as this pendant clearly means a great deal to you.
@@hrobinson9701 thank you for your response... This means so much
I have considered wearing the cross to remind myself about bearing my crosses in Jesus. I am so glad I found your podcast. I want to say that Christ's suffering on the cross is present in my mind every Sunday when partaking the sacrament in my ward. My heart feels so broken over the suffering I caused him. But then I think of his atonement and have such joy in it. Thank you, brother, for your work in Christ.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I love your videos. It helps me understand that we, along with other Christians, believe so similarly and for that I’m grateful. Our differences can be respected and appreciated as we all strive to become followers of Christ.
I appreciate you explaining the sacredness of wearing the cross for Christians. I have many friends, not of my faith, who wear the cross and I reverence and respect their purpose for wearing it. It is a beautiful symbol. Wearing symbols as a reminder of our faith is important. The symbols we choose to wear is personal to each of us and I don’t believe my symbols of remembrance are any more important than the symbols others choose to use. Their purpose is the same, to point us to Christ. Thank you for bringing understanding to so many.
I love this interfaith dialogue! Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into this project.
There are a bunch of papers and articles regarding the Cross in LDS culture. It wasn't always the same way as it is these days so it's definitely cultural. Here is just one quote:
"Though crosses may not have been commonplace in the religious iconography of the day, the doctrine behind the cross was taught frequently in early Latter-day Saint meetings and the cross as a symbol wasn’t taboo or stigmatized. Crosses were displayed at funerals, worn by prominent Latter-day Saint members (especially women), and printed on an 1852 European edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. Charles W. Nibley, the Presiding Bishop for the Church at the time, even wrote a letter in 1916 requesting a cross be erected on Ensign Peak as a memorial to the pioneers. The idea was supported by President Joseph F. Smith and a local newspaper stated, “The monument is intended as an insignia of Christian belief on the part of the Church which has been accused of not believing in Christianity.”
So where did it go? It left at the same time that anti catholic sentiments entered the picture in the US!
I was raised in a strong Southern Baptist home. I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when I was 27. I believe Alma 7: 11-13 … Christ suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane for my sins; Christ paid the demands of justice for my sins upon the cross; Christ broke the bands of death that I too may be resurrected. Jesus Christ is my savior and redeemer.
I thank you for your honest investigation of my church.
Jeff, I’m non-denominational and I love the symbolism of the cross and how we become a new creation after being born again and the grace and love he has for us. I love when you be preaching at the end.
You do a great job at making an effort to understand the LDS church, and also, at helping us understand where you're coming from! Really appreciate it! Keep it up!
PS I love your use of scripture in backing up what you're saying!
@@johnrowley310 you must not have ever listened or read any of the talks given at our general conference. They are packed full of scripture from both the Bible and our other Standard Works. When I personally speak in church I make a point to use a significant amount of scripture.
Great video! You gave me a lot to think about - I think there were a number of historical reasons why the cross was probably not incorporated into LDS iconography, because as you point out, we do have icons of different kinds. The point is well-taken that asks why do we think the display of the cross and the incarnation of the cross in the lives of Christ’s followers are somehow mutually exclusive. The best answer is: they are not. You can certainly do both. I think historically, the cross was not something Protestant churches displayed as commonly as they do now. (I believe there is historical evidence to this effect, although I can’t cite is specifically). For this reason, the LDS people just never adopted that particular symbol. We could use crosses, we just don’t. BUT this video also made me think of another non-mutually exclusive issue on which we seem to differ. Why can’t we hold that the Savior’s Atonement suffering began in the Garden and was completed on the Cross? Seems like those two thoughts can also be held at the same time and would not be contradicted by Scripture. Thanks for the videos -they’re great! I appreciate the Spirit in which you share them and fully appreciate your perspective. This is how mutually understanding is improved. Thank you.
I am LDS and I wear an old gold cross that was given to me by my father. I love wearing my dad's cross and the cross reminds me to follow our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. The cross is a universal symbol for Christianity and I am a Christian. There are many religious symbols that remind us to love and follow our Savior. We used to see WWJD on jewelry which was designed to have us stop and wonder what would Jesus do in a given situation. CTR; choose the right is a similar acronym reminds us to do what is right. It is helpful for me to help me remember who I am; a disciple of God. Pastor Jeff, I love your videos and respectful investigation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Thank you so much. I enjoy visiting other Christian churches and I feel the spirit of the Lord whenever a group of followers of God get together and worship. We all love God and are unified by our love and worship of him. Thank you and please continue your quest for knowledge.
Thank you for your video. You shared some truly beautiful ideas about our Savior and His atonement, including on the cross. I always love hearing Elder Holland speak. I always feel greater understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and more gratitude for what He has done for us, when I listen to Elder Holland.
I don’t think that understanding that Christ also suffered in Gethsemane in any way diminishes His further suffering and death on the cross. To me, it deepens my appreciation for Him to know that He prayed for us to the Father, probably individually, as He suffered for every sin, hurt, and sorrow in our lives - so much so that he sweat literal blood from every pore of His body. I can’t even begin to truly imagine that.
As far as people coming up with odd sounding reasons for why Latter-day Saint Christians do this or don’t do that, I think when people don’t really understand the reason for something, there is a natural tendency to explain it in a way that makes sense to us in some way, rather than admitting that we just don’t know or understand the reason. Personally, I am completely okay with my church not displaying crosses, and I’m also completely okay with other churches and people doing so. Maybe I’m not the “average” Latter-day Saint Christian, but I personally own 2 or 3 cross necklaces. I think it’s a beautiful symbol, and I also find it comforting. There have been times in my life when I have appreciated wearing a cross necklace because being able to feel the shape of it is a reminder that Jesus can always be with me, and I don’t need to be anxious.
You're so gracious and kind Pastor Jeff. I really enjoy listening to you, both for your Christian acumen and loveliness.
Awe yeah, We like our Elder Holland. Thanks for the video and your time Pastor Jeff
I love your videos! As a Latter-Day saint, I really appreciate your thoughts shared. I have learned so much! God bless you! ❤
Wow, I really appreciate you being able to hear things that you disagree with and do so in a respectful way. So many pastors and members of other faiths get so Righteously indignant but you maintain a kind, respectful and informative tone and that makes me want to keep listening. Thank you for what you are doing, God bless you brother 🙏
As part of my own faith journey, I began wearing a cross about 18 mos. before this talk. I've continued to wear it as an additional way to connect to my Savior. When I wear it, I tend to think of him more often and, as Elder Holland hoped, I strive to live my life as a symbol of my commitment and gratitude to Christ.
I've been a member of the Church my entire life and have only seen a handful of people wear the cross. Most of those were converts who had worn it prior to conversion.
I identify the cross as a reminder of the love Jesus has for each of us and his willingness and unique ability to conquer both sin and death that we might not only live, but live with God.
The sacred tokens in the temple are directly connected to the cross. The doctrines of Atonement and Resurrection are central to the teachings of the Church and both were purchased with His blood.
Thank you so much for reaching to this particular talk. I truly appreciate your channel and your desire to understand your LDS friends and neighbors better. You are doing good work.
Thanks for the video!
As a Latter-day Saint, I feel like we tend to shy away from the cross too much. I don't see the need to put it on our buildings or carry one around. Christ took my sins upon himself (which I might tie somewhat to the garden), and that they died with Him on the cross, and He rose perfected. As a result, my sins died with Him already, 2000 years ago, and I only need to focus on following Him in faith, and continuing to repent each day. Scripturally, the cross is very much emphasized as being tied to Christ being slain for the sins of the world, and so remembering and thinking of the cross helps me remember that Christ already paid for those sins, so I can move on, change, and be free.
I am a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints & I really appreciated this video. First of all, thank you for respectfully explaining what you believe & why. I really believe that we are so much more alike than different.
I do think the cross is a symbol that does remind us all of Jesus Christ’s great gift of atonement. I believe that the atonement includes the events that took place in the Garden of Gethsemane & on the cross on Golgotha. I have a deep respect & admiration for all that the symbol of the cross reminds you of.
We DO use a LOT of beautiful symbolism in our church that reminds us of our covenants (promises) with God & those reminders help us to strive to follow & live like the Savior. It’s clear that the symbol of the cross does the same for you & anything that has that affect is a very good thing.
We are cousins in faith & I so appreciate the space that we can come together to better understand & learn from each other. Thank you for your good work.
I am LDS. Thank you for your reflection, thoughtful perspective, and for giving me food for thought in how I explain my beliefs to my non-lds Christian friends. Thank you for your sharing your journey, I am so very glad I stumbled upon your channel. I appreciate the creative way in which you are finding similarities and explaining the differences in our faiths :)
I appreciate you Pastor Jeff. You're a good man and clearly a disciple of Jesus Christ. I see you as a brother in Christ. The bottom line for me is that I accept Jesus Christ as the only way back to the Father. I do not know everything, but I have enough faith to make this the foundation of my life now.
I have never felt we should forget his suffering on the cross or taught that in the church. His resurrection is equally important to all of us. Both are important. I think we are more alike than not.
I am Lds I stumbled on your journey and I find it awesome to explore and understand one another. My personal belief and feelings on the Cross is as a symbol is the atonement covers ALL parts leading up to his resurrection including the Cross. As I take the sacrament I always contemplate and sometimes read those passages about the atonement during the silence and reverence as the bread and water being passed, the leading up to him being crucified I reflect on him saying on the Cross "forgive them for they know not what they do" and in Luke 23 "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" I believe that when he said this, in accordance with the atonement that when we are in hard spots in life and if we turn our spirits or will to him we are not forgotten and we will at peace this is where the cross is big for me. The heart ache of people who loved him there, and the love he had for us to be crucified so we may conquer death. This is a personal experience I had. 7 years ago my wife and I got the news we had a still born. We were devastated i had no idea how to comfort my wife or myself. I dropped to my knees and prayed "father how did you deal with your son being sacrificed? Mine is not the same but I have lost my son! Help me in knowing how to comfort my wife. And calm my spirit." With in minutes I heard him say "this, this is how I did it." And I felt the overwhelming love of him and the Holy Ghost wrapping his arms around me. I don't see the cross as a torture device or a "bad ju just thing" (my words) I see it as a plea, a renewal of life and promises we made to him to always take his name upon us always A symbol of love and knowing we can do hard things. Sorry this was so long.
Wonderful presentation Paster Jeff. Much of Christianity may see things differently at times, but in the end it is our love and faith in the Son of God that blesses us all regardless of some of our ideological differences. Being a Latter Day Saint I love hearing your and others views of how we choose to worship him and respect how others choose as well. Keep doing your great work.
Man it’s so interesting how I can sit and enjoy, listening to your thoughts, I love your willingness to explore and learn and find truth everywhere because it is it’s funny how watching your videos and seeing your reactions and hearing your thoughts, strengthens my resolve to be a better person, and strengthen my conviction and testimony of this church, the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. Thank you. Truth is everywhere.
I think Elder Holland said it best when he explained that as a restored church; meaning if we are to believe that we are a restoration of that original church, then there would be little to no need in the over use of the cross, not to lessen the importance or significance of what it stands for, but mainly because that was a symbol that came about years after the saviors death.
In addition I believe you are correct with your comment about this world and the darkness. In a world, shrouded in darkness, we do need symbols to remind us of the importance of what he did, and who he was, and continues to be, that symbol to many in this world is a glimmer of His light. I say glimmer only because it’s a symbol of truth and light, of what actually happened, but sometimes those symbols can be used to distract us from who He was, is, and what he did. I’m reminded of all the times in the Old Testament where symbols became the focus, and also became a distraction, keeping the children of Israel, from actually seeing and understanding who God was, and is. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is rich with symbolism, in the temples and in our sacrament meetings, symbolism does help and assist all who are searching for the Savior but sometimes become the focus, overshadowing what they represent. When those symbols become the focus of worship in essence, they do not help us see the Savior but prevent us from finding him when those symbols become the focus. I know you are probably familiar with the many times, when God in the Old Testament would say things like he’s a jealous God, in fact, the first two Commandments given to Moses, makes it very clear, yet after receiving the commandments, they continued to struggle with that.
the children of Israel repeatedly worshiping false idols/symbols, they became a distraction, preventing them from seeing who God was and is.
In fact, were they not told to put away the staff that was raised up to heal those who were sick. That same staff with a serpent on it. they began to worshiping the object, the symbol, not using it and utilizing it as a reminder for what it represented, that years later, one will be lifted up on a cross to heal all if we looked to him, yet they began to worship the staff with a serpent on it, and couldn’t see that it was symbolic of what was to come. I believe they were instructed to take it down and destroy it…
Again, there’s nothing wrong with the cross, we are told he was lifted up for the world, that cross is a symbol for the world of what he did and is a reminder of truth and hope for all mankind and of the love that was demonstrated “on that cross”. Nothing will ever change that, but as he said, if we were to have been restored from the original church than the need for that symbol should be reflected through the character of each of the members. At least that’s my thought,
Thanx and GodBless
Well said👏👏👏. You said it way better than I did in the comments. Wearing the cross have become a worldly trend for everyone and I agree about the distraction of it all.
Firstly, most people that probably wear a cross do not even live according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are of the world. Some even tattoo it on their bodies.
Secondly, my thoughts are that it depicts a graven image and what I’ve personally experienced around me are people who hold it up high above their heads and they kiss it, pray to it, etc. Some occults even use a cross in their satanic rituals and 2 other men also died on the cross and in essence the cross reflects them as well. Idol worshipping is the vibes I feel. Many wear it to draw attention to themselves and that is the huge distraction. However, at the end of the day, we all have the freedom to choose.
I am a member of the LDS church and feel it is very important to remember His death, along with the cross, same as the resurrection. I find some comments from LDS members interesting. I like that Jeff M. is taking a very thorough and educated deep dive into Mormonism. I will never claim to know everything about the Mormon religion and have actually learned a lot about “my” religion from Jeff’s research. The cross is a Christian symbol that should not be forgotten. There is so much meaning behind the cross as Jeff mentions towards the end of the video.
Great Job! I love your research and your insight! Keep it up, nothing but respect for what you are doing. I would love to learn more about your religion among many others!
Pastor Jeff...I appreciate so much the respectful way that you are going about learning about our church and then presenting your findings and your opinions and differences. Not all leaders in other churches go to the effort that you do. Thank you so much!
Elder Holland is an amazing speaker, amazing person, and most importantly an Apostle of Jesus Christ!! Love how Elder Holland explains things so simple so easy to understand and so TRUE! I Support, Love, and Sustain him!!
All I can say is Amen, Brother!! Love you, week after week, as you seek to fight criticism with curiosity.
Like all Christians everywhere, Latter-Day Saints hugely revere Christ's suffering for us, both at Calvary and at Gethsemane. I also believe we view the importance of these events, the purposes and outcomes on the human family, and try diligently to remember them much like our brothers and sisters in other faiths.
It's true our chappels don't have a cross on top, but that's likely more about identity than any meaningful doctrinal purpose. We humbly revere His suffering on the cross. And we greatly appreciate our fellow believers who try to remember Christ any way they can. If you're wearing a cross or wearing a "WWJD" ring, you're my brother or sister in Christ!
Mormons strive diligently to remember, emulate, and rely upon Christ in our daily lives. Here's one of my favorite scriptures (2 Nephi 25:25) "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."
As an aside, Jeffrey R Holland -- a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles -- is a remarkable orator. He is well-studied, thoughtful, kind, inspired and inspiring. I have enjoyed his many messages, listed in full here: bencrowder.net/collected-talks/jeffrey-r-holland/
Jeffrey R. Holland is highly admired by many members of the LDS Church for his devoted leadership, teachings, and example. As an apostle, he is considered a special witness of Jesus Christ and is known for his powerful sermons, passionate delivery, and heartfelt testimony. He has a reputation for being a compassionate and empathetic leader, and his messages often focus on topics such as the importance of faith, the blessings of family, and the love and mercy of Jesus Christ. Thanks for sharing!
Just have to say that I love Pastor Jeff and I want to be more like him.
Cross wearing active Latter Day Saint here! I’m from the south and crosses to me mean Christian. I served my mission in Ukraine and it just reinforced that. So yeah haha. We exist. Also Elder Holland is totally my favorite apostle. I just relate to him. I feel that he’s focused on why we don’t “generally” use them but some of us still do.
Thanks for your videos Pastor Jeff. They are amazing
Hi Jeff. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and just watched your video commenting on Elder Hollands Cross iconography talk. First of all, I want to thank you for your fairness, respect and understanding in your comments. I just wanted to say that we do remember Christ's death and the cross each and every Sunday when we take the Sacrament. With the bread, we remember His broken body, sacrificed for us. With the water, we remember his blood which was shed for us. So we really do have a constant reminder of his death. But even though we have minor doctrinal differences, the important thing is to recognize our common ground of what Jesus did for us and why. That He is the one and only Savior of all mankind and the only way back to God. Thanks again for these great videos.
I don't understand why people say we don't want to remember Christ's death. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, I think your point of remembering His death during the sacrament is excellent. I think we don't have the cross as our symbol because we see His resurrection as being more important, not that we shouldn't remember His death
Thank you for your video. I loved hearing your perspective. I have always appreciated the phrase, “we cannot have Easter without the cross.” I see the cross as an integral part of the Savior’s sacrifice. I love that so many people want to remember Jesus and if the cross helps them do it, then that is awesome. I can’t wait to watch more of your videos.
Thank you!
Pastor Jeff, I so much loved your respectful review of Elder Holland’s talk on the iconography of the cross. I truly believe that this is one of those issues that does not separate Latter Day Saints in any significant way from traditional Christians very much. Personally, my focus will continue to be on what Christ’s death, atonement and resurrection has done for me and those I love. To face the difficult trials that will confront all true Christians as society continues to disintegrate, we will need to unite and band together. So, Jeff, you are a pioneer of sorts in making that happen. God bless for that brother!
Hi Jeff. I really enjoyed this video. I learned a lot from both you and Elder Holland. From this video I have a better understanding of the cross and its' significance, God bless you Jeff. I believe that you are a true disciple of Jesus Christ. If our paths ever cross I would like to give you a hug,