Carmina Cap Toe Oxford in Black Boxcalf - Shoe Review | Kirby Allison
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Based on the Spanish island of Majorca, Carmina is best-known for their cult-like following amongst shoe aficionados, for their ability to combine extraordinary softness and comfort with sturdy goodyear welting and elegant last design. Carmina offers an excellent value with most of their calfskin models beginning at just $450.00 with free shipping to the United States.
Carmina Shoemaker can trace its origins back to 1866. Today, the company is still very much a family affair with no fewer than five family members directly involved.
It is important to note that because Carmina is both the factory and the brand, and that the majority of their sales are direct, they are able to integrate many shoemaking elements into their shoes that one would not necessarily expect to see at $450.
The company also offers an extensive range of stock models and one of the easiest-to-use online made-to-order web interfaces for anyone looking to design a totally one-off shoe.
DESIGN
This Carmina black captoe oxford is built on the company’s extra-wide Forrest EEE last. One of the company’s oldest and most-traditional lasts, the Forrest last has a soft, rounded toe that gives the shoe a very conservative, traditional shape. This is a perfect business shoe.
The Forrest EEE last offers a roomier fit with more volume than the same model from other makers. The shoe features a nice, square waste with good definition where the upper is pulled over the last.
MATERIAL
Carmina’s Black Captoe Oxfords are made using black boxcalf, or chrome tanned leather, from the Germany tannery Weinheimer-Leder. Chrome-tanned is dyed and finished at the tannery which guarantees an even, stable finish that you do not have to worry about fading or coming off when you polish them. The leather is open pour, and features an even grain structure.
CONSTRUCTION
Carmina is so well-known amongst shoe enthusiasts because of how well their shoes are constructed. First, the shoe is completely Goodyear Welted, which is the derigor of high-quality factory-made shoes. Goodyear Welting is the process whereby a leather strip is sewn to then a linen ribbing that attaches to the insole. The outsole is then stitched to the welt.
What it allows is for a pair of shoes to be easily resoled without disturbing the integrity, fit, or shape of the shoe. The outsole can be easily pulled off and sewn back on by a skilled cobbler, like our Kirby Allison Certified Shoe Restoration Program, in as little as a few hours.
Carmina use a three-quarters, and not a 360-degree, welt, which ends right at the heel. This is the preferred method on higher-quality shoes because it allows the heel to sit more neatly on top of the heel.
AVAILABLE FINISHES
Carmina offers an extensive, easy-to-use made-to-order service on their website or through any of their boutiques. Any model can be made in any of their available lasts and in a wide variety of materials. Almost every aspect of the shoe can be customized to create a totally one-of-a-kind shoe.
SUMMARY AND ENDING
I really have to say that I love Carmina and can understand why they have such a strong following amongst budget-conscious shoe aficionados.
The only challenge to Carmina is that they do not have an extensive brick and mortar network of stores here in the United States. However, Carmina does have a boutique in New York City if you are ever there to try on shoes and an exceptional website where you can find their entire range of stock offerings, as well as an extensive MTO shoe configurator.
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Thank you Mr Allison. I’ve ordered a pair and I’ve never been this excited.
Definitely a thorough and precise informative video on an excellent well design and made shoe thanks for sharing!
Thanks, Frank! Hope you enjoyed!!
Great review! I could not resist and ordered a pair of these shoes. Have to say, they are absolutely beautiful. I can see the features reviewed by Mr Allison. All these small "invisible" refinements combine together into a quality look and feel. I was nicely surprised by how comfortable the heel is. It hugs like a glove, havent experience in any other shoe. Although I usually wear sizes 43-44 for other companies shoes, I had to go with 45 for this Carmina Oxford and get EEE last. So I assume they are made smaller in sizes. Great price and quality ratio, will return to Carmina in autumn season.
Great video. I've had my eye on Carmina for some time now (been wanting to take the step up from Allen Edmonds), and this video was certainly helpful in helping me make that decision.
Because of your videos, I'll be purchasing a pair this year. Definitely getting the black cap-toe Oxford, but I haven't yet decided on getting the standard leather sole with invisible channel stitching, or the Dainite soles.
Good morning Kirby, this video answered my question on the Carmina shoe quality. Thanks for the history of the shoes.
Sure thing, Michael!
I am awaiting delivery of my Carmina winter boots, this review has only added to the anticipation of receiving them 👍
Nice video, Kirby!
I'm looking forward to reviews on shoes by Crockett and Jones (both handgrade and benchgrade), Edward Green (particularly the Dover) and John Lobb (Both JL St James and JL Paris). In additional, I'd would love to see a side-by-side comparison of similar models from different brands (e.g., JL City II, EG Chelsea, CJ Audley, etc). You may also film a video, comparing different lasts of the same brand (e.g., EG 202, 82, 606, 888, 915).
Thanks for your work, very nice informativ Video.
If i may criticize the video I think the problem is that i have the feeling that it's more like an ad on the TV, not much a UA-cam review, which is depend more on the spontaneous reaction of the Reviewer!
I like the shoes and have the same opinion!
Keep going!
Good review, I did a Carmina unboxing on my channel as well a couple months ago. The Forest last is the best fitting Carmina last for my high instep.
Yes - the Forest last is very generous, especially the EEE last
what size was yours, if you dont mind asking
Hi, What about Hats ? It would be nice to see some videos about different dress hats. I have a collection of about 20 hats which I wear on different days/ outings. So it would be nice to see something about care, types, etc....... I enjoy your channel very much. Thanks Bill.
I like Carmina a lot. Their shoes are usually around 450-500 USD, but the quality is on par with the likes of C&J among others
Thanks for the in-depth look.
However, I would disagree on the versatility of the black cap toe oxford: I think it does not work well with jeans, not even with a darker shade. But it is a classic shoe to own, for sure.
On a personal note, I like Carmina a lot, although they are quite conservative, of course. I find the forest last's toe a bit too rounded and too formal.
The finish on Carmina's shoes is superb, by the way. One little detail is the edge of the sole. If you run your fingers along the edges, you will notice the edges have a concave finish and are not straight. That's because a special tool is used with a concave end, an edge iron, to smooth the edges of the sole. It also seals the fibers of the edges to protect it from water. A minute feature, but typical of Carmina's impeccable eye for attention to detail.
Bart De Ruyck i agree.. nobody should pair black oxford with jeans.
He also said that the Black captoe was the most versatile shoe in another shoe review as well. I was a bit surprised that a certified iGent such as Kirby would actually think of a black captoe as being versatile in any sense. I thought it was widely accepted that the blac captoe is by far one of the most limiting styles one can own.
I'm inclined to agree. Even with the most dark washed and dressy of jeans, a black oxford seems overly formal in contrast. I wouldn't go further than a very dark brown. Black oxfords are best left to formal dark blue and dark grey slacks or black if it's a formal event. cheers
I completely agree. Wearing them with anything other than dress pants/slacks makes you look like Andy DuFresne making a break for it.
Eden Levi one can always wear black Oxfords, just dont wear jeans.
got my second pair today in NYC
Mr. Allison,
I would like to see you do some reviews on Rancourt & Co. shoes. As far as I know they are the last of the great Maine shoemakers. Like your brother, I am a military pilot and they made a set of regulation dress shoes for me to wear with my mess dress for my sister's wedding.
Its dice to see something fresh other than allen edmonds ,great content as always
a tip : you can watch movies on flixzone. I've been using it for watching a lot of movies during the lockdown.
@Zaire Justin definitely, have been using Flixzone} for since december myself :D
@Zaire Justin yup, I have been watching on flixzone} for since december myself :)
@Zaire Justin yea, have been watching on flixzone} for months myself =)
Hi Kirby, thank you for this comprehensive review. Carmina is a fair bit cheaper than some of their competitors. Could you please give me your opinion on how the quality of the uppers from Carmina compares to the uppers from Crocket&Jones, for instance?
Keep on the fine work!
Kind regards from Germany
Doc
This is the shoe I have not been able to yet afford but I am saving my pennies.
These are now available in a EE width. (same as American D width) Based on your recommendation I ordered a pair. Should I polish them initially when received like you did with Allen Edmonds? I would think so - just checking. Enjoy your videos!
Wonderful review. How close would you say the Carmina leather approaches a Bespoke shoe?
Good work
I didn't seem to find a 80386 in the EEE Forest last on the Carmina website. All the current models are in the Rain last, and the EEE sizing is not shown anywhere, either
Just bought these in the rain last and dainite sole two weeks ago
For everybody, who is interested in a detailed Carmina review. The shoegazing blog has a great in depth article, where Carmina is compared to two other manufacturers. The article is calles "In depth - Disassembly of shoes"
Great review! Is your 0.5 less than US size official or your experience? The size measurement on their size placed a US 9 a full point less at 8?
I only see this style in a Rain Last on their website. It looks like the Forest Last has a more rounded tow whereas the Rain appears to be slightly more pointed. I definitely like the Forest better. Do they still offer this shoe in a Forest or am I missing it?
It's funny! Never heard of this brand before watching this video. I had been in, NYC and walk around in very casual clothes. Realized, I needed to good shoes last minute for a last minute business trip. Walk in to buy a pair of, cap toe, oxfords and was treated like a homeless person. They kept telling me to just go online, had seen the manager, Kirby interviewed and he was just like, see ya bro! When, I walked out of the store, empty handed, I started laughing because, I realized, I had a million dollars worth of purchasing power in my pocket with all the bank and credit cards, I had. Purchased a different brand and treated, like a valued customer. They were so nice, bought, two more pair's of shoes was not intending to purchase. That's what happens when people treat the customer like a friend and with respect. Thanks, Carmine, lol!!
Hi Kirby:
...great video. Can you please do a review of a Meermin dress shoe?
Love my Carminas. You should review some of their shell offerings. Like the shell cordovan wholecut.
We’ve already filmed their shell wholecut! Coming soon!!
@@kirbyallison Cant wait!
Spanish Shoes Are Sophisticated And Reflecting The Attention To Details...
Great Carmina Advertisement
Hey Kirby - just caught up with this video - very well done. I am currently in the market for a pair of Chelsea Boots and would like your opinion on Carmina vs. Crockett and Jones. Any thoughts or comments on either ? Thanks so much
Good Evening, Kirby. The AE Park & 5th Avenues, 9EEE, fit me perfectly, except for closure over the instep. This Forest EEE model seems to accommodate a higher instep than the AE. Would the same size 9EEE in the Carmina fit as well?? Thanks. Etienne.
Just a quick question. I bought a cap toe Oxford recently. Not Carmina but other lower end brand. I mirror shine the toe cap as most would. However, after wearing it, the leather folding occur after the toe cap sitching line and not on it. Hence, my question - is the leather "folding" suppose to happen exactly at the line for Black Cap Toe Oxfords? My toe cap mirror shine was somewhat ruined as the fold occurs after the line and "eat" into the mirror shine.
Hi Kirby,
Based upon your video, which is great, I'm buying a pair of these Carmina shoes, but am confused about what size to get. I wear a AE 7.5EEE. Would that be a 7.0EEE for Carmina or a 6.5EEE? I've seen both sizes mentioned on various threads. Thanks!
Recently I have ordered Russell black cap toe oxford from Herring. Please do review as I have no idea about this Spanish shoe...thanks.
Lately, I’ve been disappointed to find Allen Edmonds has gotten sloppy with their cap toe alignment - I’ve purchased several pairs online which were produced with the stitching noticeably crooked across the vamp. Thus, I am slightly hesitant to order yet another cap toe oxford sight-unseen. I shouldn’t have to worry about a similar cap toe alignment problem with Carmina, should I?
Hi, I appreciate all your videos. I am looking for a Carmina last that has a good amount of room across the toe-box, specifically the pinky toe area, which tends to get squished. Do you have any recommendations? Or, shoes other than Carmina I would consider as well, as long as the quality is still high.
I have a question. Would shoes of this quality and these shoes specifically be considered comfortable? Is the sole purpose of the premium price to simply make the shoe look more refined or do you get comfort benefits as well? Just curious if these could be worn all day comfortably. Thank you!
I was surprised I had to size down to 6.5 for an Alden 990 when I typically wear size 9 (ie Birkenstock Arizona is a 42). What size should I go for with Carmina?
I just got these
Any chance you will do a review of Cobbler Union
This review appears to be more a commercial than a review, but still interesting.
Great review Kirby. I'm confused about the sizing though. What size would I buy if an Allen Edmonds 10.5 D US fits me perfectly? Thanks.
Tony, you would probably need to size down 1 fullsize going to a UK number. I would advise you to contact them directly, and take a look at this great comparison by Skoaktiebolaget.
www.skoaktiebolaget.com/pages/last-comparisons
Your pronunciation of the Latin names were perfect! Is Spanish your second language?
Great video as always!
Si
Comprehensive video with a lot of details. However, I believe you are getting the design number wrong for the Forest last. It is not the 80386, but the 732, for the shoes that you are reviewing. You do mention the Rain last with the soft chisel toe towards the end of the video. That has the design number 80386. For someone not familiar with Carmina shoes, they will end up looking at the chisel toe oxfords, which, are indeed beautiful shoes - I own them :).
How would you say Carmina compares to Grenson's UK made shoes?
Hey Kirby what do you think of Magnanni Dress shoes ? They are from Spain like Carmina , i want a pair of nice brown shoes as well as black . I have a pair of black Allen Edmonds Fith Aves recently had them recrafted look sharp .
Thank You Kirby for taking my recommendation and finally doing a review for the Carmina line of shoes.
Given the option, AE Park Ave or Carmina Cap toes on the forrest last?
I'd probably go for the Carmina on the Rain last... we have one of these on their way, which we'll review also. But between AE and Carmina, Carmina is definitely worth the extra effort and money. The shoe is quite exceptional for the money. It really hits that value sweet spot.
Kirby Allison thank you for the feedback Kirby, being that I live in NYC, I should give their retail store a visit!
Thanks again Kirby!
blazinmark1 For sure! Best of both worlds!
@@blazinmark1 Their boutique is not far from the AE flagship store in midtown. You could conceivably give both shoes a try in the same afternoon, and choose accordingly. If you were to do so, I might suggest taking a look at the Allen Edmonds Hopkinson Cap Toe Oxford in addition to the Park Ave... I personally really enjoy some of the design details, find it a bit more comfortable, and most likely will last a bit longer. I do agree with Kirby though... in the Cap toe Oxford, I think Carmina>Hopkinson>Park Ave. Carmina can also make slight easements etc. at their boutique that can address any minor fit issues that you may have, which AE cannot. You may even get the Carmina in a JR sole (many models priced at ~530 come with the JR sole).
Word of caution... go to Carmina when you have time on your hands. I was in there for hours! It's like a museum of their shoes, with an attractive try-on area.
If one is used to wearing the old American-made Johnston & Murphy - Melton, Adler, or Georgetown - in 11E, which Carmina model do you recommend? From the website, it appears Rain, Forest, or Detroit, would be best. I miss my old J&Ms.
Thank you.
What a clever idea for a YT channel. Women have plenty of these channels, I’m glad you stepped out there and did one for us.
Kirby, that looking-away thing is a style of presentation I just can't get used to. One moment you're looking at me and talking to me, the next you're ignoring me and talking to someone sitting next to me that I can't see. Disconcerting.
Nice captoes though!
Thanks, Wasa! We'll continue to play around with that! Cheers, Kirby
I happen to like the side of Kirbys face here and there.
@@a.b.4052 , so that's it -- Kirby does it for his fans! :-)
I am confused you say these are 80386 in forest EEE on Carminas web site they list 80386 Rain EEE and 732 Forest EEE I do not see an 80386 Forest EEE which is what you call them in the video?
Is your 0.5 less than US size official or your experience? The size measurement on their size placed a US 9 a full point less at 8?
Hi Kirby, you have been praising highly the chrome tanned leather in this video, do you prefer it over the veg-tanned leather?, or is it only in the black color shoes?
Chrome tanned leather is best for black, since the color is dyed into the leather at the tannery. Veg tan is better for non-black, since it allows for a much greater varieties and depths of color.
I think a brown color family Oxford is more versatile. But good content
How does Carmina's construction and materials compare to Crockett & Jones? As a young professional, I'm leaning towards Carmina because it seems like a better value proposition and may even have a bit more modern styling. But I haven't found a good, recent comparison between the two shoemakers.
Thanks for the content!
We haven’t reviewed any C&J’s yet. Would be keen to put my hands on them. For what I’ve seen, they’re probably of similar quality. C&J has a great reputation.
Ive had hands on with CJ, Carmina is a step above their main production and on par with their hand grade at far less cost
Kirby Allison - try turning right out of Davidoff next time you’re there, Kirby. C & J are practically next door.
I recall Justin Fitzpatrick going on record saying he believes Carmina is on par with C&J Handgrade at a much more affordable price.
Consider looking at Carlos Santos for great shoes at a slightly lower price. I find spanish shoes having a smoother leather, while the british ones stiffer. C&J benchgrade is on the same level with Carmina imo, it is very hard to tell pure leather differences. I have done reviews on CS if you are interested!
No matter what you pick though it will be great!
Hmm I wonder if this guy likes to help the well-dressed acquire and care for their wardrobes? I didn't hear that iconic phrase in the intro!
Must have been an old intro... 😂👍🤓
I have a pair of black cap toe oxfords that are marked Bespoke since 1948 made in Italy. Are these a name brand or what, Thank you
Ideal Carmina last if you got a wide front-foot/need for space in the sides in the toebox area? I need a pair of Oxfords.
Rain last should work well for you.
@@tylerclendenin6282 Thanks for the respond. I might be off, but it seems as if the Rain last is very narrow in the front foot/forefoot, the opposite of what I was looking for. However, I might be wrong as I have no experience with Carmina.
KA: Where (retailer) May I see / try-on Carminas?
o yes
These are UK sizes home slice EEE is just regular wide not extra wide
So this is rain last or forest last in the video?
Kirby, please feature this comment in your updated version of the "I have a question about the the video..." shot. :)
Kirby do you know when you’ll get in more ties and pocket squares?
Soon... very soon!
Totally redoing that category.
Great, could you do a video about your own pocket square collection, I would be interested to see how you pair those with your sovereign grade ties
Mr Allison, please, if you are going to review any dark colour shoe, do it in a white or light colour surface in order to assure enough contrast and so we can appreciate better the item. Thank you
I agree but I must say the videos have been getting better and better.
@kirbyallison so are the shoes In This video the 80386 or the 732’s?! Your intro says one thing and later in the video you say otherwise.
Looks like 732's based on the sole and the fact he keeps referring to them as Forest-EEE. 80386's come in Rain-EEE not Forest and have an all black sole.
Can you confirm this please? In the Carmine web page they seem to be different
Do you know if you can pay extra for a Jr sole since they are made to order?
Yes - take a look at their MTO configurator. It's as fun as building a car on one of the automaker's websites. Through their MTO process, you can pay extra to have the JR Rendenbach outsoles added to any pair of shoes they make for you!! I'd definitely pay the extra. It isn't even that much. Like $50 or something.
@@kirbyallisonAround $50 is a very reasonable increase.
Kirby, great review. I just aquired a pair of Alden cap toe 971's. I haven't been able to find too much about them. Can you comment about the brand, or share any thoughts if you are familiar with the 971's? Thanks in advance.
Alden is next on our list, along with Edward Green and John Lobb Paris. I’m hoping to be able to film these in April and May.
8:46 I wonder why AE touts their 360 deg welt if 3/4 welt is better.
Also, still not using ‘orders of magnitude’ correctly.
Well, a 360-degree Goodyear welt is better than no welt at all... and relative to what AE considers their benchmarks, it is probably certainly a feature. Re "orders of magnitude," we filmed this video before you mentioned it the first time! Thanks! Cheers, Kirby
Just my opinion but it's a strong one for me -- if you prefer staying in this price range and are debating Carmina vs Allen Edmonds, choose Carmina 100% of the time. If you are concerned about fitting/width, order shoes on the Carmina Rain last and take your normal dress shoe size. Carmina's finish, QC, the brass tacks on the toe, the beveled waist, and the toe shapes are 100000000000000x better than Allen Edmonds. I started out my collection with AE because I was nervous to try European makers for fear I would mess up my sizing. IGNORE THIS FEAR. Makers like Carmina/Justin Fitzpatrick DESTROY Allen Edmonds in every single way at the same price point and I am annoyed at myself for every dollar I spent on AE. Again, just my two cents but I put my money where my mouth is on this one.
I agree
Could not have said it any better
Can anyone please tell me which Carmina shoe this is?
:)
Who uses better quality leather uppers / soles AE or Carmina? Not sure if I missed it but what material is the shank?
That isn't even a question: Carmina. Carmina is without question a better shoe in every way. The only drawback to Carmina is that you have to deal with them over the internet and that they do not have the crazy availability of widths of Allen Edmonds. They are also about $200 more expensive, in practice, considering that AE's can be purchased on sale pretty easily.
@@kirbyallison Thanks! Next time I will go a bit higher and go Carmina. Different price point but Carmina Shell Cordovan Oxford or AE Shell Cordovan cap toe oxfords. AE I assume is still lower quality in some aspect based on your previous message.
@@kirbyallison Could you review Carmina's cordovan boots? Thanks!
@@kirbyallison Totally agree. I feel like the AE soles have been coming from the factory somewhat more fleshy, and wear through more quickly than in the past. Also, the finishing on the upper has really lacked attention to detail. Hopefully they get it under control soon... some of the firsts have been looking like seconds, I've returned multiple pairs lately. Carmina finishing I found to be excellent, but as you mentioned, you are most likely spending ~60% more. Still a value depending on what you value most.
1st
Diego beat you... sorry!!
It's so elegant.. beautiful shoes and very nice information on it, Kirby. Just nitpicking, yeah the video is a little aggressively editing. Sorry, just saying because all your videos are very smooth.
Thanks! I'll pass this onto the team.
I hope the Allen Edmonds reps don’t watch this video...
First
Diego!!
Kirby, so how is it Carmina never answers the phone, returns calls, or emails? The #Brentchallenge to you: Call them anytime and see if they answer! Thank you!
Brent Straddle, I emailed them and got a reply within 24 hours. I never tried calling them.
I want to hear you review shoes you dislike. Or, maybe better yet, shoes you think are okay, but not really good.
I think positive reviews are a little bit meaningless without the context of negative reviews.
Now on March 20 2024, you need to pay for Brass toe plates and Metal toe caps. Carmina doesn't do Heel tabs or plates.
Dang much more aggressively edited video. Little intense.
Which parts?
@@kirbyallison The multicam cuts on your talking portion don't always seem motivated and some of the product shots seem a little too high energy for what you're doing. Definitely enjoying the increase in production value in general though!
I think Carlos Santos shoes are much better value at the same price point
I think so too! I have 4 pairs and have reviewed most of them. Great value for price!
i have never worn a carmina but the santos carlos that i have are awesome. amazing shoe for the money.
Your review is much too polite, which makes it look more like an advertisement
A black cap toe oxford is essential, but hardly "the most versatile" shoe. That award probably goes to brown derbies, chukkas, or loafers--all of which you could dress down with jeans--I personally think it'd be weird and look off to wear with black oxfords.