How Strong is Saber? (Fate)
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2022
- In this video, I go over Artoria Pendragon AKA Saber from the Fate series. Explaining and trying to understand why she might actually be one of the strongest and underestimated characters ever created by mankind. Unironically. Even above the likes of possibly Goku, Saitama, Superman, and Popeye.
Could 30 Billion SpongeBob's ACTUALLY Beat Goku?
• Could 30 Billion Spong... - Розваги
gilgamesh still slams
HUGE UPDATE FOR KOJURO STUFF!!!
There is a UBW Visual Animation guide that goes over the fight, and it nerfs Artorias "Beyond Speed" argument (But she is still Immeasurable), but massively buffs her Attack Power. It explains that even anime Kojuro was off balance which is why Saber could dodge, but her Excalibur Slash is the strongest Slash of all time, making it stronger than Kojuro's outerversal slashes. Meaning 8D Saber might actually be downplay, this scaling also makes Saber surviving Gaeshi more consistent, as her Excalibur at Full Power is stronger than it, here are the scans: imgur.com/a/Q1VNuvK (Big thanks to sosaxphoenix for this niche guide, it was discontinued and he had scans of it ready so that was very helpful)
For people saying Kojuro was nerfed, the Kojuro fight in the anime is different than the original Visual Novel. Even the amount of slashes in the anime is different 2 to 3. 2 in the original 1st fight in the VN, but 3 in the anime. The VN =/= Anime version of events, only UBW Visual Guide suggest he is nerfed with no indication in the actual show, it is more of a supplemental explanation based on the VN however, the VN does not apply. That is a common misconception.
For people commenting on Tamomo being nerfed vs Saber and not being as strong as she was vs BB, this is not the mainline scaling as even while nerfed in base she can still run back in time, and Saber scales above the 9 Tails amped Tamomo by fighting Sefar who the Extra servants other than Gilgamesh can't fight. Nero says with her Mythological mystic code (which makes her strong enought to fight BB) she cannot compare to Sefar, who Saber defeats. I showed this Sefar scaling in the video. I know the Nero statement is kind of niche so most people don't know about it, but here it is if you want to save it yourself for Saber > Sefar > CCC Servants >~ BB (Other than Gil) (Saber > Sefar > Amaterasu = Regalia > Arcueid > Buddha = Kiara > MMC > BB) imgur.com/a/OpOVj0O For people saying Saber never beat Sefar, in the video I provide scans that she defeats him in multiple timelines and the past. Gilgamesh also implies that if he beats Saber she won't be able to interfere anymore, her interfering being defeating Sefar.
Her yams
Facts
Can we get more fate content pls?
True
Simps*
Come on, Seth. Just tell us that you like Saber and she's your waifu
Edit: What the hell, 3k likes? Thanks, guys. Also, I can't believe I have to clarify this but this is a joke. I am not, in any way, am trying to say that Seth made this video because he's fanboying. I swear, some people just can't take the joke.
I'm looking at you, Oz the Immortal. Get some goddamn humor, man.
Pretty sure seth fate waifu is jalter
Look man...Artoria is my waifu too. Let's not cap. lol
@Sub 2 me 4 no reason? Juri Han? From Steet Fighter
No saber is mine
@@nelosparda4798 Did you know Chuck's waifu is a trap, so by proxy, since Chuck and Seth are like the same that means Seth is into Traps therefore he's using this as a guise to fool everyone watching
One thing to note about Excalibur is that it has 13 seals or Restraint to limit it's power, this is true for both Arthur and Artoria. And to release each seals it must meet the following Conditions:
- The enemy must be more powerful than oneself
- The battle must be one-on-one
- The enemy must not be an elemental
- The battle must be one against evil
- The battle must not involve personal gain
- The battle must not be against Humanity
- The battle must not be inhumane
- The battle must be for truth
- The battle must be to live
- The battle must be to save the world (Arthur's version) or The battle must be to defend human order (Artoria's version)
- One's comrades-in-arms must be courageous
- The battle must not be against one pure of heart
- The battle must be an honorable one
On the sidenote Rhongomyniad Artoria's second noble phantasm which rivals Excalibur also has 13 seals
I thought the seals were placed by the knights of the round table so they need to unseal them. Also I didn’t know her spear had seals to tho it makes sense given what it is.
Depends.
In artoria time line, it's the spear who has those seals. But she can undo them in her lancer form.
In Arthur's time line it's excalibur who has those seals. And theoretically can undo them all if he wants to.
@@tamamonomae2740 it was retconned recently The seals on Rhongomyniad are a direct result of Excalibur getting the seals
One more difference between Altria and Altrio is that Arthur's seals reset each time he uses Excalibur while Artoria's seals remained unsealed this is shown in her interlude when she removes some seals permanently while fighting some beasts
@@ACertainMan oh shit
From an interlude?
Ah that's why I didn't know that.
Thanks bud
My favorite part of the Fate series is when Saber Nero was called deadweight by Dante and for some apparent reason held more of a grudge against Dante doing that than her own dad who cut off her arm.
judgement cut incoming
Its Dantes at this point if your talking about Fate
@@Emiya491 i think that's a dmc v reference
@@Vedhon there is a dantes in fate...
My favorite part of the fate series is when saber said "it's fating time" and fated all over the bad guys destroying them
>uploads a video saying a Fate character can beat SpongeBob SquarePants
>few months later
>gets called out for sexting an underaged person and abusive towards friends
Moral of lesson: Don't diss SpongeBob SquarePants in power scaling.
Truly one of the lessons of all time
SpongeBob beats all
HE WHAT-
Unfunny.
Moral of the story don’t trust people who think a anime character beats cartoons
"These attacks are beyond comprehension."
"How?"
"They just are"
"How does this make them more powerful?"
"Well they have to be, they're beyond comprehension"
"Why?"
"Because they said so"
my beyond comprehension power scaling is beyond comprehensively objectively correct.
For real 😂
Precisely 🧐
Jokes aside, I've always just assumed that "beyond comprehension" is less about being powerful and more about being impossible to defend against, because it is both attacking through an avenue you cannot access and impossible to fully perceive in the first place. Like a Lovecraftian deity might assault your very sense of being itself and your consciousness would just deactivate, rendering you a vegetable.
"somehow they're so powerful beyond comprehension
and somehow saber tanked an attack that can destroy anything
somehow"
Gonna say you’re slightly miss-scaling the Tsubame gaeshi. The idea behind it is that assassin has trained so extensively in an “inescapable” attack that through pure skill with his sword he warps space so that his blade exists in three places at once with it being suggested the way it works is by brushing against the ability of kaleidoscope to refract assets of parallel worlds unto another
there's further scaling of it in grand order
@@TheOmniform yea they refer to Koujirou and Musashi fighting in the same way Seth described it in this video. Wich is often interprteted as outerversal and would then also logically be irrelevant speed
p3g me
It's either messing with time or messing with space.
Either way it's a massive feat.
@@tamamonomae2740 it's messing with space.Also he has a skill that makes his opponent's forgot all the detailes about the attack so even if you survive the first time,you won't be able to create countermeasures against the second one,so you can only hope that luck will smile upon you the second time.
Saber may scale above everyone else in fiction but Seth doesn't scale above the law 💀
Bro gonna debunk his own allegations
@@thezapher I hope seth has a *hax* ability to break out of his jail cell
@@thezapher from what I heard so far he actually confirmed them on a live steam it's 6hours and I'm like 2 hours in as I'm low on stuff to listen to but the recaps I've seen he says it's true basically if not outright/ actually makes them seem worse.
@@thezapher
No he didn't. All he did was admit and even boast about his wickedness. Enough of supporting this degenerate.
Weirdo you're going thru old vids commenting the same thing lol
You gotta love it when someone sees complex multiversal characters and just immediately thinks "no way someone's stronger than this!" Absolutely hilarious. Never gets old
Because "complex multiversal" is not a thing and power scaling above multiversal stops having sense
@@glc704 blame the fiction
popeye actually beats every character (with spinach boost)
Facts
@@glc704 well technically there is a maximum of 10 dimensions with the 10th literally containing multiple multiverses inside multiverses.
I mean just as an example, you can have a multiverse with our concepts of physics, then another one with the exact opposite and all of them being contained in another universe that is part of another multiverse.
Peter Parker is a normal guy compared to the One Above All, but you, as an author, could easily erase him dispite him being a multiversal character. Now imagine that God exists and he could erase you while the aline that controlls the supercomputer we're all part of could just erase god. That's probably the most easily understandable way of explaining it
the title should be, “why goku still solos”
Facts
She don’t beat goku tho
Goku could be in base, have his intelligence in super, holding back, have the heart virus, and not fighting to kill and he would still unironically slam Saber into the dirt.
@@truenightmare6665 he slams the whole verse in base lmfao
@@Myday_145 then he wakes up
One thing that should be mentioned is that Fate characters summoned during stay/night all are much weaker than their original capabilities because they’re summoned to the world by their masters and rely on their masters for magic supply. Hence why Saber for most of FS/N was often fatigued and obviously why servants weren’t able to bust out higher dimensional fire power.
It’s crazy when you think about it because that fight between Siegfried and Karna in fate apocrypha was insane and Karna wasn’t even in his best class (archer)
There’s a lot of stuff…… some servants are actually weaker than their human self. Some servants are much stronger than they were in life etc. some servants depend on Masters some have independent action. It’s a lot that’s why they simply just scale servants by their NP as “multiversal” “anti fortress” etc.
@@earlvaughan-williams3835 Karna logically stomps him tho as Lancer, Archer or Saber. Karna is one of the very few people in Nasuverse that can hang with Gil.
@@jamesonedwardsii4943 I’d throw Achilles in there too Gil would have to use ea to beat him depending how you argue his speed scales
@@Tkyoking Achilles is one of my top 5 characters bro that dude is cool as shit! I’ve argued Achilles to be top 3 so I can’t disagree on that but at the same time you got dudes out there like Orion, Buddha, Artemis, Zeus etc. I mean you know how Fate is 😂
I do love Achilles tho he’s so dope….. him Karna and Gil are probably my top 3 favorite in the series
In FGO, his living self was actually able to expand on that ability even further. It's basically implied that despite the usual three strokes, his ultimate slash basically made it so that due to the fact that there are an infinite number of worlds, there is a possibility of a single world that a slash reaches you, and just shoves an infinite amount of slashes at your face.
Musashi, who was fighting him at the time, was only able to counter this due to her ultimate slash being able to essentially erasing all other possibilities aside from her single slash cutting you, basically meaning her sword was the concept of nothingness, or Zero. By continuously deleting the infinite slashes at the same instant they were created, thus an undefined and infinite clash took place due to 0 and Infinity clashing and neither winning. A slash that reduced all possibilities to nothing, and a slash that produced an infinite amount of possibilities. The only reason the duel ended was because there was a certain bystander just sitting there and just said, "Yeah, Musashi won.", thus observing her victory and ending the duel.
(. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) Yes, I definitely understand the absurdity of that duel.
Logically speaking that battle should be going on for Eternity if infinity and nothing clashed their would be no end
@@durrangodsgrief6503 It would have, but it was more like a Schrodinger's cat scenario, where if it was just the two, their battle would have lasted into infinity and beyond dimensions, with no end as no one could observe the end, despite the real time frame theoretically lasting only about one single slash. However, someone was watching, and thus observed the start and end, making it so the battle did end.
@@durrangodsgrief6503 Their clash was the perfect balance, only because we the player was there and witness the event, cheering for Musashi, and having complete faith in her victory that created one more possibility and tip the scale ever so slightly.
EXCEPT for one thing, Musashi constrained herself in accomplishing zero or emptiness, later on collapsing, while Kojiro was fine after the match, the Master only stopped it in practical terms because he/she saw no end to it.
You forgot the fact that Saber has realized the true meaning of life and existence when the great Saint Shirou spoke to her the sacred words, "People die when they are killed".
Well who wouldn't with such profound and meaningful words
Saber beat Assassin's conceptually perfect attack because while the skill was flawless, he was using a regular metal blade and their earlier clashes had deformed it, meaning that his perfect form didn't translate into a completely perfect movement.
That flaw created a space for her to respond with her wind release.
Given her nerfs at that time, if Assassin had used that attack 1st, she would definitely have been hit by it. This is an anime vs source misunderstanding. Edit: _Hit,_ not 'necessarily' one-shot, though not necessarily not.
By his logic, Musashi from fgo would be stronger because she has won against the real nonfake Kojiro in the shimousa Singularity and later in the store She has reached peak enlightenment and she sealed CHAOS in the Greek lostbelt
That, and the Saber class is resistant to magic
@@magatsuzer0853 musashi is stronger as a swordsman for certain
@@magatsuzer0853 Wrong. The dude from Shimosa was not "real nonfake Kojirou" either. Nor did she win against him, Ritsuka had to declare her the winner for the deadlock to be broken. She died right after while the false kojiro was fine lol.
@@vicount3944 my bad, i have alzheimer's💀
Granted, the Nasuverse is pretty broken from the get-go.
For example: Shiki Tohno, the MC from Tsukihime can see the causality in all things and cut the threads of causality to basically erase things from existence.
And that's from the beginning of the story.
Theoretically, Tohno is broken. Practically he's roughly peak human with a killers mind and a deadly ability. Most servants stomp him
@@Volsunga7823 True.
Which is why I pointed to him at his baseline at the beginning of Tsukehime rather than at any subsequent point in of the story paths where he gets even stronger not to mention any of the Dead Apostles or True Ancestors or the Ultimate Ones like Type-Moon.
While he can do that his mind will end up crippled like it's pointed out in his dialogue with SHIKI and also when he cut the poison Kohaku drinked
Besides, peoples have the lines because of their connection the Root, which characters from other verses just don't have
It's a useful skill (if You don't consider going crazy because of it) but just in the Nasuverse
@@Lobsterwithinternet
There are other games?
Also, didn't Shiki Ryougi, without help from Void Shiki, literally kill her own premonition of death, therefore able to kill anyone's vision of the future of hers?
Is she strong enough to break you out of prison
Nahhh 💀💀
No Seth will win
@@omnijonn277 common believer W
Not even saber can beat your allegations💀
💀
what allegations
13:56 can’t forget about the typical Lancer Luck E in addition to Saber’s luck since in the wise words of Abridged Lancer, his “attack that will always pierce the heart was disrupted by a metaphysical critical roll on a D20.”
"Well thats just unlikely"
Instinct.. Luck.. Metaphysical D20.. WHAT WAS THAT??
Claps.
Fate luck is stupid. How do you low-roll a 100% chance?
@@66maybe66 Lancer asks himself that every time he misses
Is there a single person in all of Fate who’s been killed by Lancer’s Gae Bolg(I mean the special ability)?
8:20 No quite. For all of Kojiro's skills, his sword is "normal" (read not comparable with higher NP blades) and therefore chips and bends when clashing with Excalibur, bringing imperfections/blind spots to his Tsubame Gaeshi. This, together with Sabers instinct and expert swordsmanship let her just about counter it.
He is constrained in FSN, his true ability is able to save France and commit Wyvern genocide
@@exudeku such is the power of REGEND, the Savior of France.
@@exudeku mfw my tutorial roll is carmila
While some information is true, it's worth to mention that there is a lot of exaggeration here due to a LOT of misinterpretation.
For example Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi, it transcends space and time because it's 3 attacks used in one slash, so it's impossible by normal laws of physics, but it doesn't mean that it has infinite speed, it's the speed of a normal slash but with 3 slashes at the same time, and the reason she perceives it (and eventually counters it) is because of her Instinct skill (and because Kojiro's sword was bended).
Also, the concept of "World" isn't about the planet itself, but the thin layer of reality that surrounds it, when a Reality Marble is said to "change the world" is because it expands it's own reality over the world's reality, not the whole planet, both Excalibur and Enuma Elish are said to have a max range of 99 (most likely meters) inside the world (as servants, not against alien beings,etc) , they can't destroy a planet and never could do it in normal servant conditions.
Arjuna Alter consumed a whole Phanteon of gods and he still needed thousands of years to reset the whole world, Types are the peak of galactic bodies such as planets, and what we see by the strongest ones (like Type Jupiter and ORT) is just the destruction of half a planet or similar feat , destroying a planet is not something that normal servants could ever hope to achieve normally, not without a plan akin to the Grand Order.
Also, forget about CCC or the Extraverse entirely when you are talking about actual power.
It's a digital world with completly different laws, there are literal hackers that manipulate it and most feats can be considered unreal because of those reasons.
Like Nero turning off the sun in Extra because she hacked the systems of Seraph, she obviously never had power to do that, it's something only possible because it's a digital world and not reality
I won't comment about all of what is said in the video because it's way too much misinterpretation.
But if anyone has any questions, i will answer them without that much problem.
What is important to know is that servants are way stronger than normal humans but they are not planetary, country and arguably not even big city levels without very expecific conditions.
The range values are said in the profiles of the characters in places like Fate Stay Night (the VN), Fgo and the Extraverse games (though the latter applies by the moon's rules).
The range values are also most likely in meters since Cú Chulainn's Gae Bolg has a 2-4 range, considering that he also dashes at the enemy during the attack, it most likely covers indeed 2-4 meters of distance.
No, Gil's Ea being 99 meters is not a retcon and the "Anti-world" ranking only means that he can break the reality type of world, not even Anti-Planet NPs can destroy a planet, it just means that they are really strong and/or has a big area of effect (like Voyager's NP being Anti-planet, but it's range is just 0-999, not even close to covering a big city)
My fave type of Fate wanking is taking Extraverse feats and thinking its comparable to the rest of Fateverse. Maybe it's good to scale Extraverse characters between themselves, but not the rest of Fate lol. Extraverse has good chunk of Fate lore, but that's it.
Fate is far less complicated and everyone is far less busted as people think they are, but it seems people like to take everything at face value.
Maybe people's main mistake here is taking every single character coment at face value and not understanding that most of the explanations we are given are in the point of view of characters using THEIR own knowledge.
@@JoshuaDMarti I love the extraverse too, hell, both the Extra and Extella games have amazing stories, i personally love Extra and Extella US a lot.
Everything that you said is true too, Moon Cell's wanking is great and i love what they did with Nameless there, but trying to apply that logic outside of Seraph is insane.
Taking things at face value is expecially bad because some characters will exaggerate when they see something amazing, expecially if it isn't someone knowledgeable about the situation, it's basic writing, you should apply logic and not emotions when analyzing lines like that
@@HachannEinzbern well there are quite a number of planet and star busters in Fate world, the problem is, they're only capable of breaking a NON LIVING PLANET that doesn't have any Reality bending powers and capability of creating their own universe within them, and too bad for them, as MAJORITY of Nasuverse Celestial Bodies aren't your basic Non-living Celestials Bodies, but are living Reality Bending Sentient Beings that has tons of Defenses that transcend space-time continuum and dimensions. Avalon, which is a part of Gaia's Inner sea, is canonically a 6th Dimensional Plane.
The actually impressive ones in Nasuverse are the likes of Types (primary ability is to bend the reality of their surroundings into their own Universal territory that resembles their source world) and Chaos (canonically could have truly turned Gaia into pure fuel with just the presence of a single body part of it if not for Musashi cutting the connection between the two), and just the sheer presence of a single part of it is so powerful it literally deleted Musashi's existence across timelines and even from a place beyond space-time continuum (Throne of Heroes) just by being near it.
This is going to bother me if I say nothing about it. But the reason for Artoria's summon in Fate Extella to defeat Sefar is not because of higher power. It's because of Excalibur being THE weapon on a conceptual level to defeat Sefar. It defeated Sefar once by the nameless human in the distant past after all the gods were beaten by her. It was forged by the planet to save it, and it is something that is more effective against alien lifeforms. It is all about compatibility, which is the most fundamental thing to the Nasuverse. Every other Servant has awful compatibility with Sefar because Sefar is one who destroys civilization, and Servants are born FROM civilization. And even still, you forgot the fact that Tamamo and Nero DO in fact beat Sefar in their own routes, only for Archimedes to slide into another timeline to try to awaken Sefar again
No. She does not scale to a Nine Tail Tamamo, because Nine Tale Tamamo would be Amaterasu, who is on a conceptual level leaps and bounds above many other things due to her being the Sun. Sefar has been described as having a similar power level to Amaterasu, and despite this, Tamamo mentions how Sefar still won in Extella. Tamamo in Extella also doesn't utilize the full abilities of the Regalia because it's been split into three separate parts, so she can't fully utilize the full power of it, so of course she's going to lose to Artoria. She's not that type of fighter. She only is in Extella because it's a musou game. And no, Artoria has never been shown to be able to destroy concepts. The example of the Demon God Pillars fails because the Demon God Pillars are all familiars of Solomon in the same way that Servants are familiars. Something more akin to the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception would be needed to destroy concepts, and even then that would only fit Ryougi Shiki since Tohno Shiki would end up as dead as possible if he tried.
Kojiro lost the fight to Saber because, when he clashed swords with her during their second fight, she bent the blade. Because of this, the gap created was just enough for Artoria to see it with her Instinct and go for it, leading to her win. The VN specifically goes into this and should be taken as such
Artoria isn't even the strongest character in the damn Nasuverse. I can name a lot of things that can defeat Artoria. Gilgamesh, Karna, Romulus Quinirus, Primate Murder, Arcueid Brunestud (only to stomp even harder as Archetype Earth), any single Ultimate One (best example being ORT), etc.
Arthuria isn't even the strongest saber, she's strong because of her sword, but Sigurd, Musashi, Arthur, Leonhardt, Charlemagne, Hideyoshi, Muramasa, are all arguably as strong, if not stronger than her if we take Excalibur aside. Even in the "Saberfaces" there are stronger contenders such as the Alters, Okita, MHX, and even Mordred herself, as equivalent or stronger than Arthuria. Sure she's top tier, but mostly due to Excalibur itself than her inate ability.
If we take other classes and non-servants entirely, than goddamn she's not even on top 10, as the strongest Saber we've seen so far is Surtr, a goddamn god. She wouldn't hold a chance against the likes of Alcides, or against Grand Servants such as King Hassan
Oberon-Vortigern solos
@@LEOODARTHVADER2 I’d argue she isn’t strong enough to beat the grands as regular servants, assuming they have all of their noble phantasms and abilities. The only exception I can think of is Noah, who seems to be weak in general despite being a grand.
@@user-xo1cj9ne7f i am salty about Noah being arcade exclusive, so i agree
@@LEOODARTHVADER2 Same here. I want both Tiamom and Noah in fgo, but maybe in a few years
This is the nightmare of everyone who actually scales Fate properly, all those years of the nonsensical outversal wank was finally dying down only for this dude to come along and rekindle it.
Literally
seth do some research before you commet about the strongest fictional character because there are a lot of fictional verses with characters that trascend dimentions and are beyond concepts
ill give you a list
the scp verse
world of darkness verse
masadaverse
akuto sai and law of identity
goddess of manifold and downstreamers
unwritten leviathen
whitelight
the fireman and judy from twin peaks
hyperman
umineko verse
the antiprinciple
the mativerse
anos voldigoad and rimuru tempest
sindbad
Iinput/output verse
ajumu najimi
the axiom
true narator
monad from gnosticism
unsong verse
undoubtly first
undoubtably second
azathoth and yogsothoth from cthulhu verse
the one above all, overnovoid, the writer, lucifer, cas superman, the one below all, the presence
demonbane verse
tenchi muyo
floyd
the spirit of eternity sword
image verse
sonic archie and kirby
shin megami verse
dark tower verse
wild final boss apeard verse
xenoverse
warhammer 40 000
elder scroll
dungeans ad dragons
paper mario
gilder scrolls
yogiri from instant death
ruphas
god from digimon
slayers vers
The power scaling in Fate is legit jank.
@@JayceCH. I know i saw characters go from hyperversal to solar system then seth has to fanboy bruuh.
Where does one go to find "proper" discussion on Fate scaling, I'm interested
I will forever hope that Seth will one day tackle Medaka Box and its characters.
Scaling Medaka Box characters is in the same vein of trying to scale Saitama.
Honestly its a stupidly stupid mindfuck.
Having to deal with "writer makes him win" guy, "I am able to erase nothingness" fucker, "I have several hundred quadrillion skills you can just choose for me if they arent already in the series" lady, "I can copy anything and control it to perfection" gal and "I am literally the reader of fiction" mf and trying to scale them is just *painful*
Crack shounen powers lol
@@hoppin2245 "how strong is she? YES"
@@Killroy007 Yeah but that's the fun part.😂
Is she strong enough to break you out of prison ☠️
Lol no
yeah spongebob slams💀
Is he in prison ? Now 🤯 no
In the anime by ufotable, you can rewatch the fight with Kojiro and he noticed that Saber's sword landed near his katana's guard and got damaged by the release of Invisible Air.
You can see the cracks in the guard afterwards when they focused to it.
was not expecting a fate video from seth of all ppl. Also other than servants being restricted from destroying the planet I would also like to add when it comes to fights in fate its not just power vs power my meat's bigger than yours its moreso rock paper scissors and circumstance. Someone like Shirou can be capable of beating Gilgamesh if he serves as a direct counter to gil's main go to so on and so forth.
Is that because everyone says FATE is just some glorified porno? My nephew asked for it for Christmas. Nervous about being the one buying it if something wrong with it
@@valentinek.t3327 Realta Nu dodges the eroge elements iirc, so it should be safe. Fate (and it's predecessor, Tsukihime) were released in a time where the perception was that visual novels needed these scenes in them to be popular/successful, so they were in the originals out of "necessity."
The remakes (Realta Nu version of Fate and Tsukihime Remake) don't have these issues, nor should later Fate titles have them as much.
@@valentinek.t3327 The original visual novel is. The animes and the the realta nua version of the vn
@@valentinek.t3327 no it's simping simulation
@@valentinek.t3327 ppl say that because 10% of the original visual novel has sex scenes in it that don't really matter for the story. The realta nua version of the visual novel removes them
This video is really misinformed, and I feel the need to explain why.
1) Servants AREN'T Planet level: All you have to do is read the clip you show at 2:00 . "Even at full power, a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet apart. AND EVEN IF an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed, on paper, it wouldn't be enough to destroy THIS ONE."
Da Vinci is outright stating that Servants aren't planet busters, & that even if they were, they wouldn't be able to destroy Earth due to the Counter Force defense mechanisms. This is Da Vinci in Shinjuku after having already seen Kingu (who is stated to be as powerful as ALIVE Gilgamesh) use Enuma Elish against Tiamat. Even Karna's Brahmastra Kundala which is stated to be ON PAR with a Nuclear Bomb is already strong enough to kill 99% servants. How can servants be planet level? It makes no sense.
Therefore 2:51 is outright wrong. In fact, Chaldea who can summon a ton of Servants needs to travel all the way to the British Lostbelt to acquire Morgan's Rhongomyniad since they don't have a single planetary class NP capable of harming the Alien God. Mash's Lord Camelot is very tanky because it can block any attack as long as her willpower doesn't waver (this is a conceptual feature of her NP stated in her profile btw). Her being able to block crazy stuff that's indeed planetary doesn't mean regular servants could pull it off as well. It's a special haxx she has.
2) Regular Servants DON'T scale to Kiara and BB 2:35 Does Raditz scale to Jiren because both of them fought Goku at different points in time? No right? That's the logic you are using in 4:20 . You are completely misinterpreting feats and taking those of BUFFED Nero/Tamamo/Gilgamesh/EMIYA to scale REGULAR Artoria. It is outright stated that if Gilgamesh/Nero/Tamamo/EMIYA (I'll call them Team Hakuno from now on for simplicity) stand a 0% chance at defeating BB if they don't use the Mythological Mystic Code. In fact, even after unlocking the Mystic Code, their chances of victory are only increased to 0.9999%. This is not a random number I made up btw. It is stated by Sakura and Jinako in the game. It is only thanks to getting a 2nd buff in the form of the School Building resources that they manage to defeat BB in the end. All servants in Stay Night and Zero are stated to be weaker than Gilgamesh, who was confirmed to stand a 0% of beating BB normally. I really can't fathom how you'd come to the conclusion Artoria claps those guys.
4) The Holy Grail isn't omnipotent: 3:42 I don't know if this was flavory language or if you were for real, but the grail is not omnipotent. I don't understand how you, who were a relevant advocator of Alien X not being omnipotent due to all his restrictions and anti feats can happily claim that the Holy Grail is when it's stated that there are many wishes that it cannot grant.
5) Artoria scales to Sefar: 6:29 I feel like this is where all the misunderstanding comes from. Artoria can indeed beat Sefar POTENTIALLY, but it is completely SITUATIONAL. Excalibur is restricted by 13 Seals that restrain its power exponentially. Each seal is attached to a condition that must be met in order to be released. Its power is increased with each seal released, and the boost in power is exponential. Artoria literally goes from being unable to overpower Gilgamesh (who is stated to stand a 0% chance against BB) to her full power NP being able to one shot 7th Stage Sefar, who has a power level of 300,000,000 according to guides (1 Tailed Tamamo being a 9 and A ranked Servants such as Artoria a 100 on this scale). Just because Artoria can beat Sefar if 13 specific conditions are met it doesn't mean characters in Stay Night or Zero scale to Sefar as well or that the versions of Artoria we see lose to Gilgamesh do as well.
6:33 literally makes no sense based on the explanation I already gave. The same servants that defeated BB never fought Sefar. Nero did say that even with the Mythological Mystic Code they wouldn't beat Sefar, but as I already explained, the Mystic Code on its own only gives the Hakuno Team a 0.9999% chance of victory. They needed a 2nd buff to actually win. A buff that isn't available in the world of EXTELLA.
Secondly, Sefar in EXTELLA is weakened. Sefar has a total of 7 evolution stages, and each stage is stated to be 10 times stronger and Taller than the previous one. The more mana Sefar absorbs, the bigger and stronger she gets. Going by the size she had in EXTELLA, which was stated to be 64 meters, we can conclude she was in her 3rd stage give or take, as her 7th stage is confirmed to be over 1 Kilometer tall. As I already explained, her 7th stage (the one Artoria could possibly beat) equals a PL of 300 million, whereas her 3rd stage stops at 30 K.
And finally, Sefar in EXTELLA has a huge weakness on her chest, a remnant of the first time she was killed by Excalibur in 12,000 BC. Whereas A rank NPs can't even scratch Titan Altera's face at the start of EXTELLA, they are able to kill 3rd stage Sefar (who is way stronger than Titan Altera) at the end of the game due to her chest having a huge hole that exposes her Core/weak spot. Nero had no idea about this weakness when she stated the Mythological Mystic Code isn't guaranteed to beat sefar either, so if regular Altera (who is stated to be equal to Iskandar) could beat Stage 3 Sefar thanks to said weakness, CCC Gilgamesh with his 2 buffs should be able to do it as well.
6) Servants aren't above the concepts of Time and Speed. Most of them aren't even Supersonic: 7:15 Kojirou is stated to be above "time/space/speed" because the 3 slashes in Tsubame Gaeshi are released SIMULTANEOUSLY. It's equivalent to 3 people slashing you at once except there's only one dude. In that regard, he is really impressive, and that's something even Goku can't do as far as I know, but you are forgetting that the slashes themselves AREN'T moving at infinite speed. Just because the slashes are released simultaneously, it doesn't mean that they are any faster than the speed of sound.
In fact, High Tier Servants are consistently stated to be supersonic. Gae Bolg for example is stated to move at Mach 2 both in Stay Night and FGO, Artoria, Mordred, Karna, and Achilles are all stated to move faster than sound, and in Strange Fake Gilgamesh considered that his NPs moving at the speed of lightning would be useful in blocking a potential surprise sniper attack from Enkidu. In FGO, Musashi (who fought a stronger ALIVE Kojirou than the one in Stay Night to a draw) could barely react to the Dioscuri twins moving at SUB LIGHT SPEED, and stated that if she wasn't buffed by Sherlock Holmes at the time she would have been speed blitzed.
The cherry on top is BB in FGO outright stating that Servants CAN'T move FTL as doing so would make short work of even an A ranked Servant. The whole premise of the Seraphix event is that the Servants couldn't escape from Beast Kiara's pressure because doing so requires moving at light speed.
7) Weakened Tamamo never traveled back in time: 1:57 Tamamo at the end of CCC had grown her 9 Tails to ignore the time axis and save Hakuno. 9 Tailed Tamamo/Amaterasu is stated to be the strongest being in EXTRA and CCC. She claps Berserker Arcueid, Kiara and BB, let alone Gilgamesh who even with the Mythological Mystic Code only stands a 0.9999% chance at defeating BB. Regular Artoria from Stay Night, Zero, or EXTELLA doesn't scale to this version of Tamamo at all.
Tamamo didn't travel 1000 years back in time either. She simply stayed in the Far Side of the Moon which exists in a Time Loop. After training there for 1000 years she exited that realm and went to the Moon Cell core/Near Side where Hakuno was being deleted. There wasn't any Time Travel involved.
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Yeahhh boy
@@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892 who are you? I don't speak engrishu
@@sentidoc0mun289 💀
@@sentidoc0mun289 Bro writes a whole essay and then forgot about the language 💀
1. First statement is simply a range statement not an AP one. We see an anti-planet NP Get blocked by an Anti-fortress np in LB5, np classifications only indicate the area of effect of an attack this is explained in FSN with the difference between Anti-Personal Anti-Army and Anti-fortress.
2. a normal nuclear Bomb wouldn't even scratch a servant because it lacks mystery
3. Planetary class at the moment means nothing its simply a term to describe spirit origin so you can't even use it to downplay Alien God to planet level because the Alien God can make black holes and bend space and time which is way way above planetary
4. Here's the thing with Artoria's seals. They aren't like Arthur's while Arthur seals return to being locked after he fires the blast Artoria's don't we can see this in her interlude where she kills a bunch of mobs to unlock some seals on Excalibur when she says "This is a fight to save the planet" she is unlocking said seal.
5. Being at 3 placss at once either means you are cloning yourself or have infinite swinging speed I'm inclined to believe in the later because koujiro has no cloning abilities
6. Manaburst saber in Zero is stated to move at light speed which in fate allows you to time travel so it's more inline with the interpretation that you need infinite energy to pull it off going by relativity which makes sense with the koujiro speed feat than anything else thrown gae bolg ain't even fast when he has a literal move that reverses cause and effect lol the snipe thing is a travel speed feat not a reaction time and it's mostly there to protect the master who doesn't scale any way shape or form to these guys and when the defender fails (duh) Gil goes for the save himself. What you need to know about feats in fate is that they are largely affected by the mana density in the air to the point that Excalibur morgan in Shinjuku can't even bust a single city yet normal herc with a single swing from his axe can destroy a mountain in FSN due to the higher than usual mana density in the air same thing applies to the dioscuri twins because Atlantis is still in the age of gods it's ironic because in the same fight you bring up musashi Vs koujiro its stated to surpass space and time lol.
As I already stated going Ls in fate requires infinite energy so someone from a different fiction wouldn't be able to go past LS due to the laws of the universe stopping them in a VS.
Artoria Vs the MCC characters.
Tamamo with moon crux couldn't do shit to Sefar. Artoria solos the fuck out of sefar.end of discussion. Amaterasu is way above MCC tier characters but even with the ability to train for a thousand years the moon cell though it's best to summon Artoria to beat Sefar so Artoria>Amaterasu the counter force doesn't summon servants unless it's absolutely nessecery this alone places Artoria above everyone in Extella and what THEY can grow into only Gil is an exception because he came from the far side on his own without being summoned and actually defeated Artoria and like I said before this is SEALESS Artoria because the seals don't come back on her Excalibur after firing it
Hey Seth, another thing I think you missed to talk about is about the textures of layers on Earth and how it works. Basically the Earth is kind of a self-contained multiverse / Dimension due to the layers of reality wraped around the planet.
I guess it's another reason the Counter Force protects it
And Enkidu's Ea (equal to Gilgamesh's) channels the Counter Force's power to make one strike
Saber survives it because of the simple fact that she’s part dragon, and in Fate, dragons are damn near impossible to kill unless you have something like Ascalon or Arondight.
Theres also certain servants that can accomplish impossibly insane feats as well, such as Musashi's ability to cut through the literal void, or Senji Muramasa's ability to detach the concept of Karma from someone. Or even King Arthur from another time the genderbent Saber, who travels timelines and dimensions in order to face an enemy that endangers the world
Base Superman still stomps the verse
@@whisdagoat6249 no
@@Hollyrking268 Wanna debate that?
@@whisdagoat6249 no
@@Hollyrking268 So Base Superman slaps the verse
9:16 So, how Saber survived, her Instinct ability didn't exactly foretell where Kojirou would strike, only that she'd die. In that same moment, she released Excalibur, which increased her physical parameters, however, it would only work to tank the hit rather than block it.
That's how she survived those three slashes.
Now in the rematch, she already has Excalibur out, so she's more prepared
No she only survived because the previous encounter had bent sasakis sword thus giving saber a opening to exploit
What kind of wax did the poster if this video used to get their brain so *SMOOTHE* to produce such a hot take???
A quick correction is that the servants of CCC that appear in Extella aren’t at the peak of their CCC power, the 4 servants of CCC had what are known as Mythological Mystic Codes, and these codes are what allowed them to defeat BB, Tamamo had the Code of the Sun, Nero had the Code of Venus, Nameless had the Code of Wrought Iron, and Gilgamesh had the Code of Genesis, however in order to obtain thsee codes for the first 3 characters (Gilgamesh just has it by default) the main characters had to go through a bunch hoops and trials to do it, for Tamamo specifically she needs all 9 of her tails, which allowed her to become the goddess Amaterasu, however the Tamamo of Extella that directly fights with saber only has 3 tails, meaning she is nowhere near as powerful as she was when she fought BB, the same can be applied to Nero who does not possess the Code of Venus, and Nameless who does not possess the Code of Wrought Iron, while Gilgamesh is never mentioned using his.
"(Gilgamesh just has it by default)"
Best. Servant.
😂
If I learned anything from Star Ocean Till The End of Time your dimensional god like beings aint shit when on the same playing field.
Steal their code and they just like normal humans.
@@colt1903 He is actually just Kinoko Nasu’s favourite son.
Isn't gilgamesh unable to activate his code unless he has outside support?
@@colt1903 bro I love Gil one of my favorite characters but they give him these godly abilities that realistically make him impossible to beat yet he loses every time because he doesn’t think people are worthy 😂😂😂
EA is by far the most OP broken thing ever…… Seth said it’s “the world” but that’s not at all how it’s described, it’s described as being able to target and erase creation itself while bypassing “ANY” defensive capabilities. That shit can literally beat anyone ever though up but he will lose simply because he doesn’t seem someone worthy? Dude would rather “die” than use EA on an “unworthy” opponent…… come on man 😂😅
I think the term “beyond space and time” is being played up a bit in this. In the description of tsubame gaeshi it’s “disregard for space and time” was used referring to the simultaneous slashes not that he’s now super powerful. His attack power was probably not enough to fully kill saber but he was fast enough to box her up lol
The more appropriate term would be more "bending space" since his attack is more like attacking in three directions simultaneously. Another example where people overinflate certain servant characters
@@Awesome_Pichu hmm so does nine lives by Hercules equal tsubame gaeshi × 3?
@@Awesome_Pichu Exactly. It's kinda insane how Seth, probably one of the only intelligent powerscalers out there takes this as fact. Did he fall off or smth? This goes beyond being "charitable," it's just wank.
In the virtual novel, it is said to be similar to the second true magic, so it is more than just bending space. However, downplaying Tsubame Gaeshi and saying it is just turning space, like saying that is enough to equal true magic, means the Emiya family magecraft should equal Magic Blue because it related to time
@@yekkub9425 It's not insane at all, Seth is right here. Read this and tell me that at the very least the "slash" itself isn't outerversal. We're not talking about anything else but the "slash". There's no need to twist words or complicate the literal meaning and definition. "There is a sword of infinity that leads to multiplicity. A way to acknowledge "multiple possibilities". A single act that is originally finite; a single slash that can only be performed at one time, in one space. It is, so to speak, an "infinite" sword that gives birth to several "correct answers". To make one's own existence transparent to the extremes, till there is nothing more. And yet to grasp for "something" beyond that. That is Kojiro's "Tsubame Gaeshi". A sword that creates a "future" that not even the gods can escape from." It uses the second magic. The technique "Tsubame Gaeshi" isn't impressive but it's the slash PERFORMED by the technique (Mystery NP or sliver of power from root) that treads on the second magic, that goes out applying the second magic on the slashes which makes the slashes and/or slash themselves outerversal, it's not difficult to understand, this mysterious magic makes it possible. "Although with some limitations, he eventually attained, perfected and refined his goal, a Mystic Sword technique as a prison of slashes that treads into the Second Magic without any knowledge of Magecraft or True Magic by doing nothing but spending his life swinging his longsword, following a single worthless idea on how to kill a flying swallow." By limitations it means what I said previously, it still does not mean that the slashes themselves aren't outerversal because they are, the technique activates mystery which then allows for True magic to be possible in his case of "Tsubame Gaeshi". That's why it's avoidable with something like instinct because the technique (Employing Mystery) isn't outerversal in and of itself as opposed to something like Gae Bolg which is only avoidable with luck. Notice that instinct more than what we have in real life. "Instinct (直感, Chokkan?, localized as "Intuition"GO,EXT,Link) is the ability to instantly identify “the best personal course of action” during combat. Because this Skill allows for the prediction of trajectory, it is possible to avoid attacks from firearms." This is why it was easily countered by Artoria, so essentially not a wank at all. If you want to use VSBattles, here is what they have to say, not the most reliable source but anyways; here's the definition of baseline outerversal. "Characters or objects that can affect structures with a number of dimensions greater than the set of natural numbers, meaning in simple terms that the number of dimensions is aleph-1 (An uncountably infinite number, assumed to be the cardinality of the real numbers themselves), and therefore that such objects fully exceed High 1-B structures, which have only a countably infinite number of dimensions." This is true because the "second magic" in Fate employs this, so again; it's not a wank. Furthermore, the character itself technically doesn't have to be outerversal to employ it, it can be outerversal by way of technique, slashes, structures, objects and/or magic or "second magic" more specifically. "Characters or objects that functionally transcend the rest of the Tiering System. These characters are completely transcendent to even those that have absolute power over a single infinite hierarchy of levels of infinity." More proof that the slashes themselves were outerversal is if you look how "second magic" in Fate works. Jeweled Sword of Zelretch is similar in function due to it also employing the "second magic" except it's literally busted by dumping all the load of magical energy by reflection and siphoning all parallel worlds as well as many other things as shown in the fight between Crimson Moon and Zelretch etc. You could even go as far to say that if a weapon such as the sword of Zelretch containing an infinite amount of "endless" worlds of magical energy that it could be similar to the root itself so tier 0. The only reason it's not necessarily that is because Zelretch either didn't acquire that much power and that he himself is limited or that he didn't fully access the roots potential, just less than a modicum of its power. He would become God in other words, plenty of scans to prove this.
That spear attack that controls causality reminds me of Ticuu's Divination, a bow from Destiny 2 that shoots paracausal arrows. When you draw and shoot, the arrows are written to hit the target basically through time, in fact i think you don't even need to take an arrow from a quiver as the arrows would appear into your hand as you draw because they are actually already inside the target. So when you shoot, those arrows curve their path to hit their target, and the arrows are basically rewrite the past which is actually the present. And talking about powerscaling, depending on who uses it those arrow are definetly beyond planet level. Heck one could argue they could damage concepts.
Town level spear attack
@@yekkub9425 goku on his way to have a spear in his chest instantly killing him with no counterplay
Power scaling are taken into consideration when creators abide by rules they make. Unfortunately Nasu is far from one of those as he had already broke so many of his rules that people don't take his characters seriously.
Name some rules he’s broken outside of the Gae bolg one.
@@r.k845 Ea stated to he recreate the world
@@Kira22558 Not an established rule. EA is said to separate heaven and earth but it didn’t inherently create the planet.
@@r.k845
I mean gilgamash and his boyfriend
In fate Strange/fake basically recreate "the world"
@@r.k845 damn bro didnt know the Worst gaming Company separates heaven and earth
The only reason she survives her first encounter with Kojirou is because of her instinct skill. It allowed her to just barely figure out what was going to happen in the future allowing her to just barely defend against it. Hence why it shows her falling down before getting slashed
crazy doesnt change anything tho
goku still wins
@@dinogt8477 he’d get excalibur forcibly inserted into his body before he can do anything LOL
And she was confused as to what was happening so reacted slower than she would have
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 can you prove her instinct would be greater than ultra instinct or if she's even fast enough to keep up?
I would absolutely love to see more Fate videos from you
I really like your analysis on Characters that have an extreme amount of lore to dig and discover. But I wonder on how you do on Characters that don't show as much power output but still considered very powerful, like Yugi (or Atem) in yugioh or anyone from Chaotic..... 🤔 🤔
While this is a lovely dive into Fate using the workhorse of the Fate scaling community, there's a bit of nuance in Saber's fight with Kojiro you missed. Saber survives Tsubami Gaeshi--which is not three slashes, persay, but a single slash made of three cuts--due in part to a couple of factors. Part of it is her Instinct skill, which provides her with supernatural predictive impulses as she fights, and actually gets stronger the more "skilled" her opponent is. And another part is that Kojiro isn't actually Kojiro; he's more of a phantom of the rumor of Sasaki Kojiro's legend. So there's a massive gap in stats based on the gulf in their ontological anchoring. Had this been the "real" Kojiro and Saber stepped into the fight with this approach, she would be cut to ribbons.
When Saber survives the first Tsubami Gaeshi, however, the blow warps Kojiro's blade. Again, there's that massive gap in stats I mentioned before. So when he goes to repeat the maneuver, the imperfection of his weapon leads to an imperfection in his technique, leading to his defeat.
Oh, you mention that. Cheers.
Kojiros NP is just spatial manipulation. One strike occupying 3 instances of space.
His skill of creating a scenario where he can win in a sword duel is far more impressive. Considering how many sword users there are in Fate.
And sabers feats are the worst to scale. Due to her being useful or OP when the plot needs her.
@@redarcher3599 well that being said plot armor is a literal skill in fate
@@carso1500 well yes and no. Depends.
Case n point Gilgamesh and his feats in fate. Vs him in fgo and extra.
I don't use plot based feats that are one offs in ve debating or count it as a skill.
Kinda like considering a lucky trick shot as your average skill you can pull off at will.
Also, one thing people forget saber needed plot armor to beat kojiro.
Why? Well consider this, berserker herc uses a slab of rock literal rock to trade blows with Artoria, his axe sword never shatters, meanwhile kojiro who uses a weapon made out of Mana has his weapon bend to allow saber to win.
Why hasn't her slab of rock shattered? Why didn't Medusa's daggger chain shatter? They are not noblephatasms yet when saber needs to win, sasaki sword somehow bends.
Artoria is a character that is as strong as plot demands.
Super Tengen Toppa Squashes Saber, the power of Spiral Energy is literally the concept to never stop and move forward like a drill, there is no limit.
Overkill
Even Kevin from honkai impact 3rd kills her
@@Kira22558 where does honking impact scale
@@mtbax 11th dimension at best (there argument about hyperversel to low outerversal)
@@mtbax where?
@@Kira22558 sonic slams
Artoria - I am the king who fight for humanity
Emiya - I am the bone of my sword
I would like to say that there are several issues with power scaling servants in fate.
1. All servants in Holy Grail Wars are kinda nerfed due to their servant containers (which are made basically our of mana) and the fact that the world itself will not allow the servants to destroy the world so most HGW feats are nerfed to prevent that. if not stuff like Karna's Vasavi Shakti and Gil's Ea would be ripping the planet to bits.
2. Moon cell is -kinda- hella complicated.
I also heard that full summoning is impossible as it borders on full resurrection. The summoning system is build close to the Heaven's Feel, an actual Magic of Resurrection.
Ea and VS would not tear the planets to bits.
@@gilgameshkingofheroes5903 exaggeration. In fate, I doubt they could tear through all layers of the world. But Ea would definitely make it look like god was having a bad day as he disintegrates a portion of the planet. VS would tear through one or two layers and probably make mapmakers suffer with how he'll evaporate the terrain
@@agenti4734
To be honest, it's probably not even that. Anti World NPs do not equal Anti Planet NPs.
@@agenti4734 Moon Cell's SERAPH is simple in that it's consistently stated to be a fictional simulation that doesn't actually exist. Thus, you can't actually scale characters based on it outside of the Moon Cell. BB's Ten Crowns doesn't even work outside of the Moon Cell.
A point on Excalibur: It's *required* to defeat Sefar. As in the one timeline where it wasn't made because the faries tasked making it were lazy (I'm sure other comments have mentioned the Lostbelts), *The entire planet was reduced to a still ocean*.
Also, I will agree with the statement about how Cu shouldn't be underestimated even with his status as a jobber. In F/GO he's an absolute *cockroach* with his Battle Continuation, and is considered one of the best F2P Servants due to how easy it is to get him and how versatile he is in most fights.
I mean it's not exactly required so long as the machine gods don't dick around and do their big fusion blast.
@@Lucaintheninjatank nahh dude, the world was literally destroyed by sefar when the fairies didn't create it during the british lostbelt. So excalibur is literally required to defeat sefar
@@gamertag2516 The Machine Gods fucked around though. In the timeline where Zeus forced them to fuse with him, they fought her to a stalemate. She can be defeated by more mundane means than Excalibur but it's holy shit hard.
... and that's how a random UA-cam users spoiled me the beginning of Atlantis... :P
Calibur ;) .
I think the ending with stating that how shooting lasers, is more impressive than everything else throughout the video gives me the feeling Nasu was not thinking that hard about how powerful he made these characters, but this is still insane nonetheless lol
just inconsistent
Nah, the planetary Anti-Alien defense weapon is her strongest weapon. Mayne not the most versatile but definitely the strongest.
@@Volsunga7823 Yeah what Volsunga said. Also, Seth really overplayed Saber's abilities. She is not faster than the concept of speed since he fundamentally misunderstood Tsubame-Gaeshi. I can tell you right now, it has nothing to do with that, and is more simply 3 simultaneous attacks. Most anime characters can dodge such things. She doesn't have causality reversal either, she just had a high luck stat and lancer's was low. It's that simple. Luck doesn't make her undefeatable in battle either. She gets fucked up all the time. It doesn't make up for low agility score. When faced with Tsubame-Gaeshi she actually tanked two of the three hits the first time. The second time she only defeats it because during the first time (not only is she seeing it again) the blade got very slightly warped enough for her to dodge forward and take Kojirou out.
@@RuneKatashima It's kinda funny how he went for the much less impressive "really fast swings" over "literally breaking reality to make three swings at the exact same time"
@@RuneKatashima In Fate Grand Order Msuashi vs Kyoujiro is refered to in the same vain. People have consistenly put that into Outerversal and Irrelevant speed aswell
I'm pretty sure while saber was fighting Sasaki Kojirou, while fighting he bent his sword, which is why Artoria survived the Tsubame Gaeshi. Edit: Muramasa actually made an exact replica of Excalibur, which just gives him even more hype than when he fish gutted a reality marble and had a sword that can slice through the concept of fate.
Overpowered or not, Artoria Pendragon/Saber is honestly one of my favorite anime characters of all time. A beautiful badass, through and through.
Goku is So strong When he transformed into Ultra instinct sign he Disconnected live streams across the globe And he's not even real 💀💀💀💀
Really good video ❤️❤️ I would like to get your take or CRISIS take on how powerful Shiki Ryougi. I am quite convinced that she can kill Superman, i even think Shiki Nanaya might be able to do it. You guys could call the video How Powerful is Shiki?" or How powerful are Eyes of Death Perception?"
Ain’t no way I never thought I would see a fate vid on this channel 😭 if I get one wish for the new year i as if you could scale gil🙏🏽
Hi there 😄 Thank you for watching! *I've picked you amongst my random contest winners please write me on my official TELEGRAM above* ✍️
The strongest character in fiction is always someone's sonic OC
I like how you specifically said sonic. Thay verse is suprisingly broken.
@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy exactly don't get me started on the crosovers versions of sonic like smt sonic that outerversal or archie sonic and now even game sonic now op bc frontiers a composite sonic is scray geez
seth do some research before you commet about the strongest fictional character because there are a lot of fictional verses with characters that trascend dimentions and are beyond concepts
ill give you a list
the scp verse
world of darkness verse
masadaverse
akuto sai and law of identity
goddess of manifold and downstreamers
unwritten leviathen
whitelight
the fireman and judy from twin peaks
hyperman
umineko verse
the antiprinciple
the mativerse
anos voldigoad and rimuru tempest
sindbad
Iinput/output verse
ajumu najimi
the axiom
true narator
monad from gnosticism
unsong verse
undoubtly first
undoubtably second
azathoth and yogsothoth from cthulhu verse
the one above all, overnovoid, the writer, lucifer, cas superman, the one below all, the presence
demonbane verse
tenchi muyo
floyd
the spirit of eternity sword
image verse
sonic archie and kirby
shin megami verse
dark tower verse
wild final boss apeard verse
xenoverse
warhammer 40 000
elder scroll
dungeans ad dragons
paper mario
gilder scrolls
yogiri from instant death
ruphas
god from digimon
slayers verse
Whenever Gilgamesh is mentioned I think of Fate, It's an all around fun anime and that's rare.
In fate zero novel it's blatantly stated saber is only above super sonic and near lightspeed. So she is not even lightspeed or faster. It also said she was having trouble parrying 20 bullets a second now if she moved at lightspeed that would be easy. Kojiro's slash only happens at three different places at the same time that's all.
Not her base speed, like you saw in stay night. She outsped him do to Excaliburs buff
keep in mind fate zero is loose canon
Kiritsugu's magical supply isn't good enough for Saber to be even near full power, same with Shirou, in FSN when Rin becomes Saber's master she actually becomes stronger because Rin is a far better master and mage, a Servant is only as strong as its master, see Karna and Jinako for reference.
@@Emiichoco all of fate is canon, so zero is canon. Why the creator would allow everything to be canon, I would not know, but shit is crazy
@@Everlost_Nation because thats funny
Pretty sure the Kojiro thing was that he could slash multiples times in the same instant (and she only defeated bim because he was a wraith or something and his "Noble Phantasm" was just a sword that had already been chipped)
Kojiro got defeated due to him not being the original but a false servant summoned by another servant.
He himself said that he's the not the real one but only a fragment of people memory of the original servant.
Nasu also wrote Lancer being proud of his noble phantasm reaching mach 2 in Hollow Ataraxia or portrayed Kirei running at 30 miles per hour as impressive in Heavens Feel, his own scaling can be pretty wonky.
I mean Kirei is running that fast unassisted by magecraft or boosts, Rin needs magecraft to achieve those speeds so not needing it is impressive. In Hollow Ataraxia we already have Archer shooting arrows at mach 10 and Saber travelling at mach 10 speeds. Maybe Lancer's proud since he's just raw throwing it that hard... although Gae Bolg's speed has never really been the impressive thing about it.
@@Lucaintheninjatank It's just funny how he writes characters to surpass instant attacks or ones from the future, but whenever he actually uses irl speed values they tend to be much lower than even very conservative calcs. It's like a Justice League character getting hyped for breaking the sound barrier.
It’s because you people take everything out of context
yeah beyond the concept of speed. and yet CCC Gilgamesh need a space ship just to travel galaxy size distant and surpass light speed. Kiara Session thought it was implausible for him be faster than the speed of light.
Musashi in Shimousa tied with ALIVE Sasaki yet in Olympus she can barely keep up with the Dioscuri twins who move at SUB LIGHTSPEED. In Seraphix BB even stated that Servants CAN'T move at the speed of light, as doing so would make short work of even an A ranked Servant. Whenever a servant surpasses the speed of sound it is considered impressive by everyone in the cast. Artoria in Hollow Ataraxia was struggling to block EMIYA's arrows moving at Mach 10. Saying Servants have immeasurable speed cause "Tsubame Gaeshi > concept of SpEeD" while disregarding every single statement saying the opposite is cringe. The reason Tsubame Geashi has those statements about surpassing speed and shit is just that the 3 slashes are simultaneous. That's it. The slashes themselves are just around the speed of sound give or take.
YES! FATE SCALING! FINALLY!
You should look at Edmond Dantes too. He's a beast that outspeeds time and basically has autolife for as long as he has a goal. He made Kojirou, the Assassin that fought Saber, shit himself and walk away from a fight.
You mean fate w4nk?
Because entirely of this video use misleading translation and outright ignore context
I personally put nasuverse /fate at 4th dimension to 6th dimension
Dantes is just that guy
@@Kira22558 I agree as a fate fan all the top tiers, who saber is not a part of, are at most 6th dimensional through mooncell scaling. Only 2 characters have arguments for being outer. No boundless in Nasuverse.
Dante being able to erase immortals via flames is the most based thing ever
@@jacobmcgee2053 I mean technically more. Abigail technically has cthulu in her, void shiki is directly connected to the root itself. True daemons apparently exist in the nasuverse as well.
“In fiction”
Lucifer: Ayo come look at this
I feel like there's some sort of misunderstanding of the idea of the way kojiro and her fight went which light cause some accudental bump up to your assessment. But otherwise, neat video. Nowhere near my favorite servant but I'm always down for fate getting some respect.
I heard about this video coming on Twitter, and I still wasn't prepared, Seth talking about fate stuff is surprisingly fun. Nasu writes way more than any human being should be capable of doing so it's pretty understandable why so much of the lore has people confused
Cause it’s nons 😂 fun nons but straight nons
Bout time we got a video scaling Fate characters, Seth I'd love for you to continue making Fate videos in the future I'm sure many others can agree. Very few "competent" people online tend to properly scale the series and understand all it's lore and information so I'm def happy to see you hopefully pick up the mantle especially since there's tons to discuss
Fate is an interesting series but it is also a complex, tangled multiverse that honestly makes less sense the more I learn about it but at the same time my ADHD brain actually understands a little more than half of what is going on
@@novavoltik1289 So basically Cod: Zombies without the Zombies?
@@novavoltik1289 honestly it is not really any worse than marvel or dc, there just isn't any main timeline like 616
@@novavoltik1289 Yeah it is definitely very convoluted at times but the deeper you go into the lore the more you're rewarded which is what I love about the series more than anything
Everyone understands Fate because they don’t need scaling…… they are “scaled” by the creator where he gives their NP DC “anti army” “anti universe” “anti fortress” it’s spelled out for you how can you get it wrong? Even Gil’s Hax is very simple yet very OP. He targets your very creation and erases that….. it’s simple to understand that that shit is BS that no one can get around.
Imagine your scaling be so trash that it reflects on your personality 💀
I feel like the research you put in this officially proves you are the nerdiest man alive and I think that is incredible. Power scaling is so much fun
Not even begining to. There's professional Tolkien scholars with academic degrees in Tolkien, spending their whole professional career researching and publishing on Tolkien. Then you get into something like Shakespeare, and it's just a different order or magnitude id nerdism
For some reason I don't qualify Shakespeare scholars as nerds. Tolkien is kind of borderline to me. I think that Shakespeare is too respectable and Tolkien is like half way there. I don't know how to explain. It's like, they're nerds, but in a different category. Scholarly nerds or something 🤷
Only to be dead wrong
Seth 100% has a saber body pillow
Love seeing you go over Fate!!! I'd love to see you scale more type moon content like Aoko Aozaki
Well, when you consider that the anime laser of Excalibur with just a fraction of its power one shot a Lovecraftian Deity. Maybe Excalibur being her strongest ability isn’t so far fetched.
"Lovecraftian Deity" is kind of an overstatement. Actual "other gods" from the Lovecraft mythos are much stronger than anything Saber has faced, Sefar included.
Aren't there more powerful servants that can literally beat the living out of Artoria...like godjuna or something ?
Want a List? I got you.
Gilgamesh, Goetia, Solomon, Zeus, Aphrodite, Demeter, Tiamat, Scáthach-Skadi, Arjuna Alter, Chaos, Kama, BB, Meltlilith, Passionlip, Kiara, Space Ishtar, Cernunnos, Avenger Nobu, Enkidu, Kingprotea, Artemis, Qin Shi Huang, Jeanne d'Arc (With that sword activated), Brynhildr, Parvati, Karna, Nagao, Vritra, Romulus-Quirinus, Surtr, Dioscuri, Attila.
Even her Lancer Counterpart is stronger then her!
@darkzeromods9187 right? And dude here is saying Artoria is the strongest..
@Winter Kai Bro has been an Artoria Simp this entire video, I mean, I like her too, but he didn't do enough research, and knows nothing about powerscaling.
@this city really looks like a city Don't underestimate them, they're all destroying Artoria with their hax.
Even if that was the case, the other 'half' goes to show she's not the strongest in her verse.
Hell, Lore Wise, Rama should be stronger then her and all Sabers (-Void Shiki)
About saber surviving kojiro's attack, wasn't it exactly because she has high luck and because of intuition (that skill is pretty busted)? I don't remember if it's said or implied or it's a speculation cause it's been a long time.
One thing that i find even more interesting is the skill/trait pioneer of the stars that basically gives canonic plot armor (makes the impossible possible and makes you archive your goal,drake fucked poseidon 2 times thanks to it and it's a headcanon of mine that the reason we are even alive in fgo is because we have/had da vinci with us),it would be an interesting video.
Edit: also,the fact that she isn't even one of the strongest entities (and even servants tbh) in the fate universe is wild.
@@amari7782 ik da vinci lily doesn't have it but i look at it like her creation is basically that chance that pioneer from the og da vinci created for us (like drake doesn't come with us to olympus,she gave us the opportunity).
For merlin,yeah,he helps us but you could always say that is still thanks to pioneer of the stars that he even notices us (same goes for fou being with us and so on),as i said,it's my headcanon (and merlin whatches over us most of the time,it's later that he actually intervenes).
@@amari7782 when fou came to chaldea is somenthing we don't know and it could have happened before da vinci was summoned of couurse.
Idk if you were talking about fou or merlin when talking about clairvoyance but i'll assume it was about merlin and he can't see the future nor the past,just the present so he couldn't predict it.
Merlin also doesn't really care about what happens,he just watches and while doing it he took interest in us (i think it was like that but i'm unsure about this one).
Lev wouldn't have go away because there was nothing really going on with him, pioneer of the stars gives you basically plot armor,true,but if nothing is happening and,in this case da vinci, doesn't have the goal to save humanity but rather monitor it (assuming she wasn't summoned a long time before we arrived) then there is nothing that it can do (it doesn't prevent things,it helps making the impossible possible and it was kinda peaceful as far as we know before we arrived (i don't remember anyone saying otherwise but it's also been 4 years since i started)).
What i'm saying,and what my headcanon is,is that every major stroke of luck we had was thanks to pioneer of the stars and it's carrying on in the lbs thanks to its nature to giving that possibility (possibility being da vinci lily,we couldn't do literally half of we are doing without her).
@@amari7782 i forgot about this being the timeline where lev doesn't kill himself,as i said, it's been a long time.
But the gudas had da vinci on their side,da vinci goal was to prevent the incineration of humanity and she was doing so through/with them, pioneer of the stars can still do things in that situation,she doesn't need to be near them.
Also no,i'm not giving the skill too much credit,just think how servants with that trait aren't weak to enuma elish (it shouldn't be possible but again,making the impossible possible) or,as i said earlier,what drake did both times (she wasn't even a servant in okeanos).
@@amari7782 then,apart from okeanos which has drake and america and london which have tesla, nothing was actually impossibile (then da vinci helps in camelot).
Da vinci still helps though basically every time,even if a little,from chaldea,it's not like she doesn't do anything (that's a stretch but i don't think is completely impossibile,just not likely i'd say).
And even if we don't include any help from chaldea,there was still the help of someone with pioneer during the most difficult singularities apart from babylon.
Artoria dodged Cu Chulainn’s Gae Blog with her high luck stat and instinct skill, while for Tsubame Gaeshi, iirc Kojiro’s sword was damaged when he used his technique against Artoria, hence there was an opening between the three slashes which allowed Artoria to avoid Tubame Gaeshi
finally a powerscale video for Fate
Unexpected but very invested for the analysis on Saber
seth do some research before you commet about the strongest fictional character because there are a lot of fictional verses with characters that trascend dimentiaity and are beyond concepts
ill give you a list
the scp verse
world of darkness verse
masadaverse
akuto sai and law of identity
goddess of manifold and downstreamers
unwritten leviathen
whitelight
the fireman and judy from twin peaks
hyperman
umineko verse
the antiprinciple
the mativerse
anos voldigoad and rimuru tempest
sindbad
Iinput/output verse
ajumu najimi
the axiom
true narator
monad from gnosticism
unsong verse
undoubtly first
undoubtably second
azathoth and yogsothoth from cthulhu verse
the one above all, overnovoid, the writer, lucifer, cas superman, the one below all, the presence
demonbane verse
tenchi muyo
floyd
the spirit of eternity sword
image verse
sonic archie and kirby
shin megami verse
dark tower verse
wild final boss apeard verse
xenoverse
warhammer 40 000
elder scroll
dungeans ad dragons
paper mario
gilder scrolls
yogiri from instant death
ruphas
god from digimon
slayers vers
Saber: *exists*
Doraemon: *pulls The Dictator Switch*
I never thought I would see this day
Damn as a Fate fanboy I loved this a lot. Nice video Seth
wait this is real holy cow i mean it's my favorite anime series but I never really knew she was that powerful. just starting to get into power scaling myself as a fun little hobby. man Seth you really do put a lot of effort into these vids keep up the good work !
She's not nearly that powerful. Seth was just being stupid.
This video is bull lol
The power scaling to these characters reminds me of those "video game map size comparison" videos where you see these relatively similar-sized maps before... boom... Minecraft, then space. Minecraft's map size is like the boundary of power that is immense but can still be comprehended, like a Toon character. However, in order to surpass this, you must exit the bounds of understanding, to which it becomes the "space maps." All of the upper feats in this video can be summarized as "Do you get it?... No? Good."
I doubt it. There is a little pink puffball by the name of Kirby who would like to have a talk with Saber.
I NEED more of this! Ya did a good job man.
A horrible job, actually
It's great having this kind of content but I also love some simple scaling of Characters that aren't Multiverse level in all their stats!!!!! but has crazy Hax like Gojo's Infinity, Madara's Rinnegan, Yhwach's Almighty and Giorno's GER
As I have seen the recent scaling and this vid against I can agree this is fax
With this awesome vid on Saber, I'm wondering on where Arcueid Brunestud from Tsukihime would be in power scaling. :3
Was the underage 🐱 worth it Seth?
W
Would love to see one of your videos like this about Medaka Kurakami. She was always one of the most broken characters I've known of. Think you'd have fun reading the manga and analysing it
That would be great :) .
I'd also vote for Ban Midou, as he's probably the closest to non-gag Medaka, complete with, "obtained the sum total of all human knowledge by the age of 5" and can perceive and re-write the akasha record.
don't tell him about kumogi he will have a break down
@@zyrethz5409 ajimu will make him tremble
I’d like to give it a watch/read at some point. I’m curious as to how a show supposedly revolving around a suggestions box can have characters that powerful.
medaka box powerscaling is crazy but like in a good way
Saber was able to survive The Subame Gaishi due to Kojirou’s sword being bent from clashing with Invisible Air.
I remember that but it never made sense to me. How does the sword being bent a bit create an opening large enough for her to win?
@@vicount3944 Saber has a very small frame and has a consistent tenacity in battle that allows her to slip through attacks she normally shouldn’t be able to. Her victory against Kojirou was really a miraculous one, in 99 out of 100 scenarios she would have lost.
@@someguywithatomahawk8058 still means that she is relative
since when
@@ihatenagi in terms of raw stats she far surpassed Kojirou in every area but speed, although she made up for this with her Mana Burst as usual.
Everything flew over my head 💀
I feel so bad for you, having to delve into the entire Fate lore for one video. That's one hell of a task.
She then loses to a highschool teacher
Id love to see you do a video on Altair from Re:creators cause she is one character that comes to mind that could contend with her
altair is one of those 'my oc is better than x' i thinks, so ye, made sense.
since, being not having actual canon, her powers basically comes from whatever fan-content people made of her
Altair basically has reality manipulation, but restricted by others thoughts
If we’re being technical, she could contend with anyone. She can manipulate people’s stories to remove their powers & you’d need to destroy her idea to actually beat her.
@@jamesmassey4863 thats what im saying is id love to see him do a video on her given how powerful she is compared to alot of characters people like to bring up in these strength scaling debates
ORT, popping up in FGO:
"Allow me to introduce myself (after 20+ years)"
Saber: I am faster than the concept of speed itself.
Shirou: Cool, so how do I kill you in the Heaven's Feel route then?
Saber: ...
Saber: I am as fast as a literal jet
Fate scalers:IMMESERABLE
Shirou is outright stated to be comparable to servants if you have a discord account I'll show you
Also saber alter was weakened and on the ground at the time, so what the hell are you talking about ?
Seth makes a fate power scaling vid
Fate fans: *it's a free real estate*
"Oh boy, what stupid things are people saying now"
@@Volsunga7823 my favorite servants are Serenity Siegfried Medusa Okita Bedivere and Artoria
@@HelenaSan425 Artoria, Sigurd, Brynhildr, Gilgamesh, Kiara personally
@@Volsunga7823 forgot about Marie Antoinette she's also my favorite and also Helena Blavatsky
U can tell by my PFP lol
@@Volsunga7823 bro my 7 hours comment ago u never noticed
Umm did u forget about cthulhu, the being that can you kill u with a thought and is something that is incomprehensible and beyond existence
Cathulhu can't kill you with a thought, we're so far beneath him that it would be on par with trying to think about a specific microbe. He passively destroys you while slumbering and would just devastate you while existing and not hybernating.
not to forget that the entire storyline about that essentially revolves around how helpless virtually everyone is against him.
Fate got a Cthulhu, her name is Hokusai
Saber unsealed Excalibur is above Abigail who is basically (yog sothoth) and BB who absorb (nyarlathotep)
he didnt forget them he just doesnt know them cauuse hes used to naruto and goku
Guys hear me out, what if we start making UA-cam scumbag scaling videos?
@this city really looks like a city I dunno I think edp445vs stp445 in real life to decide who wins.
One of these days when I have my own series, I'm just gonna copy the homework of the Fate writers and say my MC is beyond comprehensibly strong just because he says so, and every attack he tanks is boundless because he said so.
None of those things ever happened in any of the works.
I would say that Kojiro's slashes are not a slash of a god killing beast, they are simply utilising the second magic to converge these timelines momentarily. I think a good way would be like using Yhwach. His Almighty can attack into the future. So, Kojiro would be doing the same thing but his attacks are not necessarily a god slash. So Tsubame Gaeshi is just the strongest attack he can do times three. But that's not downplaying him. He is a master and any normal armour, magical or not is just butter to him. Flesh and bone would be the same.
Now Artoria used her Instinct to escape. I also don't know how to explain it. I guess the best explanation would be that Artoria instinctively moved to where the blades would damage her least. She can sort of be seen moving backwards before getting slashed, which would defend her from getting decapitated. She also is pretty tanky and mana would help seal the wounds but yeah, her instinct is just broken
Edit: Oh yeah, and luck was also a factor. Those two together make a whole plot armour for Saber, as if Avalon wasn't enough
Bro what you smokin I need that
Edit: Watched the video. I need what THE CREATOR was smoking
Mf deadass smoking a building sized pack or some shit like that cuz ain't no way bruh
i thought i finished this anime and ur showing me episodes i havnt seen lol
Saber is a Rebirth Superman victim
Massive overkill
You should do more videos on fate. They're pretty entertaining to learn about.
Most of the information on the video is wrong
@@sentidoc0mun289 😂
One thing you forgot to mention. Excalibur (or the sword of promised victory) is a divine construct. It embodies the concept that humanity can beat anything it faces.
I like how you specified Kojiro as "assassin" coz we all want Saber Kojiro😄
As a fate fan...... Bro saber is strong but all of fiction?
Goku...... Saitama.... Superman?
Like it's not even an argument that Goku would wipe the floor with her. Saber died to Archer in Hollow Ataraxia because he sat on a skyscraper and just kept shooting her.
Nah she one shots cope