Video got corrupted last time I uploaded it so I had to redo it, thanks to everyone who rewatches. Also a huge shoutout to Crisis for writing the majority of the video with some of my inputs, it really helps me expand what I do and lets me upload stuff while I work hard in the background. And uh, I recorded this video with my phone.. I need a new mic and I wasn't home lol
I think part of the reason Obi-wan held as long to Vader, is because he is the best Soresu fighter, which is all defensive, while Vader uses a hybrid styles of a few of them and smart use of the force, to compensate for his mechanical limb’s. Also Vader is arguably the best duelist in Star Wars, while Obi-wan is the best defensive fighter.
You forgot the very basic reasons which would be Obi-Wan trained Anikin and is very familiar. Did you ever think maybe his defenses is so good because Anikin's offense was so good or vice versa ? All that other bable is just a bunch of text book technical nonsense to describe what logic can describe easily and that is 2 vastly power force users got even more powerful practicing with each other. The styles are just the results of them getting used to each other.
@@baki484 the reason for that is because of them training together. If you remember Obi-Wan was far more offensive of a fighter when he was a padawan which is why he beat Darth Maul. It was the constant training with a naturally more gifted padawan that made him defensive and thee master of Soresu.
@@baki484 well most do. I just can't believe they haven't put together why or how Obi-Wan mastered Soresu better than anyone else even though he was considered not as gifted.
S++Infinity Class Tier: Young Prime Full Potential True Total Oneness Mortis Gray Force-wielder Anakin Skywalker (Star Wars Expanded Universe) with the age, mastery, skill, knowledge, and experience of Young Prime Full Potential The Father of Mortis (Star Wars Expanded Universe) who's young, at the peak of his prime, fully uninjured (has all four of his limbs and tissue), and is at his true absolute full maximum Force potential with the High Ground is the most powerful Force Adept, Force Being, Force Entity, Force God, Force-user, and Force-wielder of all time ever in existence in the entire Official Star Wars Expanded Universe Canon Lore fictional popular culture media series. I mean, he's *LITERALLY* The Chosen One of the Force; The Son of the Suns of the Whills; and the child of The Supreme Maker (God/the Star Wars God/George Lucas' Avatar in Star Wars), the Force, The Whills, and the Will/Whill of the Force (meaning the Will/Whill of God/The Supreme Maker/the Star Wars God/George Lucas' Avatar).
The fact they needed to nerf Qui-Gon through force suppression to make him lose against Maul shows how much of a monster he really his. Underrated character
Hey seth no funny shit but the number of franchises you make videos about such as reading guides, books and comics is really outstanding to me… from star wars to greek mythology, anime to the MCU and even the DC universe. You don’t get much recognition and praise for the shit you do but man… you have my everlasting respect. This aint an easy job you doing here and i am grateful to know that i’m subbed to a legend like you!
@@efeaslan9063 One Piece scaling is simple based in my own POV Yonko>>>Admiral>>>Revolutionary Army top commanders >>>Shichibukai>>> current Supernova>>>Tobi Roppo>>>Minks>>>Fishman. Individually is much more difficult (who is still alive currently) Out of order: Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon, Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh, Luffy, Kaido, Blackbeard, Akainu.
Qui-gon should scale higher. Qui-gon was relatively old in TPM and was using a force-intensive form, Ataru. Next, Qui-gon was trained by Dooku and had thousands of sparing matches with him. Lastly, Quigon fought Windu to a standstill in their sparing matches.
Agreed I left a long comment arguing about what prime Qui-Gon would actually be. I say he lands at top of F-tier or bottom of E-tier. Arguments against E-tier could be made since Qui-Gon died so early and a lot of power growth happened between Ep. 1 and Ep. 3, but I'd argue Mace did not grow significantly stronger therefore Qui-Gon would still be relative to Ep. 3 Mace and could make bottom of E-tier.
@@Nezxmi Qui-Gon in low E-tier would be fine. Nick Gilliard did state in his emails that Qui-Gon > ROTS Fisto, and Fisto was rated a 7. That would make Prime Qui-Gon at least an 8 which supports him sparring Mace to a standstill pre-TPM given Mace is also in the 8 category. Lastly, Mace already had Vaapad for a long time before TPM since he trained Depa Billaba in it and Depa was on the council before TPM.
100%, we only saw Qui-Gon out of his prime but he was highly respected for a reason. Dooku even made a remark about how he wished he had Qui-Gon's help, and that Obi-Wan in Episode 2 was a disappointment by comparison
One last thing about Qui-Gon: we see in both Canon and legends that mindset effects your power. Examples are Vader being conflicted and in the new show, Obi-Wan becoming stronger when he clears his mind. Qui-Gon, had the single most calm and wise mindset of all the jedi in the prequels. Yoda didn't even learn what Qui-Gon knew until the original trilogy. This doesn't make Qui-Gon the strongest jedi, but it's another point in favor of him being very powerful
I'm Super casual in star wars. But rank E caught me by suprise! I thought Mace Windu was top tier after pretty confidently beating Sidious before he got ambushed.
One thing worth mentioning about these tier lists is that someone not being S-A-B rank doesn't mean they are not ridiculously powerful, since the top tier characters are completely out of hand when it comes to their power. Like, It's fair to put Revan in H compared to everyone else in this list, but in his time, he was so ridiculous that he was seen as the heart of the force by Kreia. Even in SWTOR, after he was shattered into light side Revan (Force ghost) and dark side Revan (who resurrected), he was so powerful that it took the player character (which doesn't mean much since it can vary between the emperor's wrath and a smuggler) current Jedi grand master, multiple sith lords, etc, to bring him down. Mace Windu is stronger than that, which is pretty amazing.
I know you said a Full Potential Luke was only hypothetical, but I think Anakin is the only one who can get the Mortis amp because he is the Chosen One.
I don't think so, i read from some guy that it's apparently because the Force is so strong in Mortis that it can amplify anyone to reach their full potential.
@@vaas7743 I said A LITTLE. A series about space wizards isn’t going to be completely consistent 100% of the time. Kylo had also just killed his dad & gotten shot in the abdomen so he wasn’t at his best.
Full potential Anakin in the Mortis arc is the strongest force user in canon. Of course, he had the benefit of being on Mortis and he never achieved that potential, but considering he’s basically the Force incarnate, the way he ragdolled the Son and Daughter is such a brilliant feat. Just like the Father stated, Anakin was way beyond the concept of Jedi and Sith.
I think an living anakin is different from a dead one/ What i mean is that full potential anakin living is equal tot he father while Anakin dead becomes one with the force and maintains balance indirectly surpassing every being,
@@cosmo1240 But she's always been Dave Filoni's special waifu OC character. That's how he's treated her, and no amount of corporate spin will convince me she was George's creation, with how hard Filoni has ridden herd on her.
Remember seeing a thread of Mace Windu Vs Revan in a fight. People favored Revan over Windu for some reason, as when I pointed out how Windu would win since he was overpowering Sidious and how the rule of two produced stronger Sith each generation, they thought I was crazy
So something I always wondered, why does Luke get so powerful in a few years, with less teachers, but Anakin as the chosen one spends nearly a decade with Jedi masters and knowledge everywhere, not to mention a full war to gain experience. How does Luke become stronger than that by the time of Episode V? I get that Luke is a prodigy in his own right, but seems a bit dramatic to me. Still a great character tho.
Well it's important to note that even though Luke "beats" Vader he is never stronger than Vader. Vader is nerfed by emotional confliction and he also just doesn't want to kill his son. But as stated with the Anakin AotC statements the difference in ability between two individuals is not always raw power, more often than not the difference in ability comes down to who has the better control. 19 year old AotC Anakin matches Yoda in terms of "power" but not control, and only 3 years later in RotS Anakin's control is comparable to Yoda's. So control can be rapidly honed, "power" is what takes years to accumulate. ANH Luke has most of his "power" potential unlocked, also being 19 years old, but his control is practically zero. 3 years later in ESB he is comparable to RotS Anakin. That's actually remarkably consistent.
That statement only makes sense if Vader is talking strongest in terms of potential. I don't have Shadows of the Empire available to look at that quote in full context but from excerpts I see from the book on the internet, Vader draws a lot of parallels between Luke and himself back in his youth. With that being said, I think it's reasonable to assume that Jedi grow faster during times of conflict versus times of peace, especially when it comes to bad students like Anakin was and how much he improved during the clone wars, so that might explain how Luke grew strong in a short period of time. I wouldn't call ESB Luke comparable to RotS Anakin though, I don't think he even had any formal lightsaber training before he read Obi-wan's journals after ESB.
@@lolmuffins1 Well for one, Anakin was not a bad student. Quite the opposite, he was hated by his fellow students for his natural talent and generally beloved by his many instructors. As for ESB Luke being comparable to RotS Anakin, he may even exceed that scaling. You are not wrong to assume that Vader could be talking about potential as Luke’s potential is brought up many times throughout Shadows of the Empire but I’d still argue that he is not. Every time Luke’s potential is brought up, it’s stated to be greater than Vader’s, greater than the Emperor’s, even equal to prime Anakin. In the statement where Vader calls Luke his equal and the strongest of them all, he further goes on to say that Luke will either join the Dark Side or Luke will die, but it will be the duel of a lifetime. So the statement implies relativity but still places Luke below Vader. This would mean the statement is not referring to Luke’s “greater than Vader” potential.
@@Nezxmi I just don't understand how Luke managed to do what Anakin couldn't basically by himself? Only thing I can think of is Obi Wan and Yoda teaching Luke the most important and best techniques in the force leaving out all the unnecessary bs, but even that seems a bit extra. I think a few years of the clone wars would be more realistic than a few sessions with obi Wan. I could also say maybe they weren't too focused on making anakin a crazy force wielder more so the general he was.
@@SpaceGhostQ Honestly it's debatable but you could say that Luke's natural talent alongside Obi-Wan's journal, which would probably have extensive notes on the perfected versions of form 3 and form 5, allowed him to skip the whole process of optimizing each form and that's how. But I'd personally just say that Luke's power rivaled RotS Anakin's in ESB but his skill did not. In the comics set between ANH and ESB Luke fights two magnaguards to a stalemate while RotS Anakin has a feat of fighting 4 in TCW. Luke's immense raw power simply allowed him to compensate for his lack of extended formal training at first and each time he engaged Vader was basically intensive training since Vader didn't actually want him dead. I wouldn't definitively put Luke on RotS Anakin's skill level until RotJ, when Luke is "instantaneously" learning and mirroring Vader's Form V against Vader himself, though maybe he is beyond RotS Anakin at that point.
I loved Legends even before it was Legends, back when it was still the EU. And Disney can go kiss shit for terminating it instead of continuing in parallel as Legends. I know many fans hate the banner, but I could accept it being Legends if they weren't so safe and predictable with it, and just let it wallow with intent to keep it in limbo forever.
@@Zoxxies not automatically, technically Anakin has more force potential and physical speed due to having all his limbs (midichlorian count, it sucks I know but it's Canon) but Vader scales above Anakin due to experience, pain amps (his suit) and his unique saber form.
Lists like this really go to show how much Anakin was screwed over by Sidious and the Jedi Council, he had the potential to reach heights we haven't even seen, despite it having been so long since the inception of the franchise, but ultimately never reached them due to the plot of the story.
@@DisastrousIntentionally i mean chosen one Anakin, as in an Anakin who would've embraced both the light and dark sides of the force, i believe a Vader that had beaten Obi Wan (no wounds nor missing limbs) would've been inferior to an Anakin who would've embraced both sides of the force as one.
You must become one with the Force. Spiritually to strengthen your pul lwith it so makes sense because ppl just harboring anger and skill uses the other side of the force which is quite good but they miss the major ability to control the bigger power of the force as they say its all around.
I really admire the parallel and contrast editing shots of Darth Vader walking in a very bright environment with rain, only to be contrasted with Anakin in a dark area with fire. It rhymed like poetry at 21:38.
Starkiller is from Legends, they'd probably butcher him, and then that would lead to casual fans thinking that Legends Starkiller and Disney Starkiller are the same, which would then lead to them assuming that Starkiller is not that cool
I think I personally disagree with the idea that the Jedi/Sith always get progressively stronger. Saesee Tiin over Revan for example doesn't make much sense to me.
@@newhybrid101 Right, and most of the Jedi/Sith he mentions from the past are the best of the best (Revan, Meetra, etc.) Whereas we get a list of lots of Jedi from the prequels, even those who weren't the best.
Yeah I agree, not sure where seth got that from as it doesn't reflect much with the characters. If I were to guess it's the fact that the rule of two was designed to distill the strength of the sith over the generations, but that's more of an ideology rather than a confirmed fact. Case in point, Plaugis was arguably stronger in the force than Palpatine, why would he need to finish him when he was asleep and drunk? I'd say it's about knowledge rather than power as Palpatine by return of the jedi was much stronger than he was as Plaugis's apprentice
@@YuVen3487 If you want to know where Seth gets his facts from, re watch 6:07 to 7:49 and actually pay attention to the video this time. You don't have to guess, just pay attention to the video. It's objectively not more of an ideology, It's an objective fact that the Sith get stronger and stronger as Seth highlights. Your case in point is garbage, and it's clear to me now that you wouldn't actually be re watching the video, you'd be watching it for the first time. Why do people like you comment before watching a video? Does it not occur to you that you might learn more about someone's opinion from them just telling you their opinion? Seriously, just re watch from 6:07 to 7:49.
I really do love the inclusion of starkiller he's definitely one of my favourite star wars characters main because he's really powerful while not being a skywalker showing that you don't have to be related to the chosen one to be a beast in the force.
I honestly thought Revan would rank a little higher, given all the hype and power he's discussed as having, especially since Vitiate kinda was built to be a sort of "ancient-proto-Sidious" with how he basically achieved the same thing Sidious wanted, and apparently had the potential ability to drain whole planets. It's been forever since I've seen the Sith video, though.
@@IAmGodHimself777 Vitiate? Yeah, before he started swapping bodies, he actually drained the planet he was born on. It's no Nihilus feat, but it shows he had the potential to possibly do it again.
Yeah I agree. Not saying Revan should be at the top, but personally I don't get these ranking videos. Basically he just sorts them chronologically and the ones in the past are ranked as weaker.
@@natem9080 He uses the canon lore of "new gen > old gen" even if he scales with legends characters and feats despite multiple feats and statements in legends contradicting that. He also fails to take in to consideration context (sometimes, not all the time) and story elements.
Kreia/Traya's comments on Surik being the greatest cannot comply with Revan's novel, as Meetra herself states Revan's ability with the force is greater than anything she'd ever experienced, this and she became Revan's apprentice, not to mention how Darth Nyriss defeated Surik and scourge together, a weakened Revan goes on to reflect Nyriss's attack with ease incinerating her. Bane whose knowledge mostly came from Darth Revan, the guy before he leant centuries of knowledge from Vitiate. The Quote regarding bane being beyond all those that came before, doesn't hold up in terms of feats, scaling, and a manner of contradictory evidence, such as Exar kun, and Karness muur, the latter by Vader's own admission after ROTS confirming inferiority to the ancient sith spirit, who is below ajunta pall, which scales below Exar kun, Ajunta's own admission of a pre prime Jedi revan's power as "blinding" Darth Gravid, a banite sith attempted to merge jedi ideologies with sith, but was driven insane, nearly tearing down the Rule of two. While Revan found balance, plageuis mused that such a thing was not possible. To claim Such ancient Jedi were inferior to Eeth koth or cin drallig is preposterous.
@Isidoro T 1) Drew is the creator of Revan/Kotor 1, his word is fact when it comes to KOTOR related things, the evidence really points to him being the strongest of his time, his portrayal as well, even Meetra's creator admitted to Revans superiority over her. 2) True, he does grow in power but his Feats are enough, and the fact there was futures where Revan(Novel) would of triumphed over Vitiate, balancing the force in its purest form. He's in vitiates league or just below it arguably, the same vitiate that consumed nathema, with a thousand years of growth, ontop of thousands of sith spirits consumed. 3) admitting the quote is fallible, invalidates it, Bane was at a time where the sith were at its lowest, There is too much contradiction, evidence to hold bane so high. 4)"...She doesn't have the strength to stop Vader. But Karness Muur does." There is clear narrative portrayal, the comic's depiction, of an what if off sidious's defeat, is clear indication that Karness is superior at the time, enough to bridge the gap between him and what he knew of sidious's power. Like bane's quote, most of these are contradicted, shown up in feats. Not mentioning the person whom wrote them, was before Kotor even existed. While I do have maul up there, Id say he is below the very strongest Force users, like Outlander/vaylin/Revan/Vitiate. Above Meetra/malgus, SF Malak would be debatable.
@@codesuzakugeass you cant debate against primary sources my guy lmfao. If it says Bane is the strongest up to that point, he just is. If it says Maul is the deadliest, he just is. If it says each successive generation of the rule of two get stronger then they just do lol. So yeah the scaling in the video is completely accurate lol. as bizarre as that might seem to you
@@ExtraVictory Primary sources with dozens of different writers, with different interpretations, scaling's. Things get outdated or simply do not make sense in the slightest. Unless you'd like to argue bane is stronger the Man whom took the spirits of all he killed, in his millennium and a half of existence, on top of Revan/outlander/Vaylin to finally put him down. This feat is portrayed with Dark empire Sidious at his very peak's defeat. Then claim kit fisto or Eeth koth is stronger.
I don't know how I feel about Qui-Gon,a person who could have easily been a Jedi master if not for his Free-thinking,being put on the same tier as eeth koth,ahoska and a Jedi lightsaber trainer. Surely Qui-gon is stronger in the force then all of those guys,and about equal in lightsaber combat. So how are they on the same tier?
he's about their level as qui gon in the force could not beat tpm maul and i know qui gon was nerfed but maul was also nerfed in the fight as he had a injury and it was stated anakin somehow amped qui gon as anakin was like a force nexus
There is one fact about Qui-Gon. He was killed by Maul. That’s also when Maul was the weakest in the whole franchise. Him being Ahsoka level according to what we saw is pretty generous. At least she wasn’t killed by even a stronger Maul.
Absurd. Maul was at his strongest in TPM because he still had both his legs (i.e., more midichlorians). Further, Qui-gon was in his 60s in TPM using a highly force-intensive form, Ataru. Lastly, it is said in the TPM novelization, that Qui-gon's saber skills rivaled that of Mace Windu and they both fought to a standstill in their sparing matches.
@@DarthKraytsolosCanon500 Mace beat sidious and yoda almost did too, obi wan keeps up with anakin/vader due to how well he knows him not because he rivals him in strength.
I only have one disagreement in the whole video, and it's that dooku wasn't going all out for most of the dooku vs anakin fight. I always interpreted it as him trying to beat anakin without trying to impress the emperor, only for it to bite him in the ass when he lost the fight he treated as a sword duel instead of a battle to the death
Palpatine probably order Dooku to hold back (let's be honest Dooku was able to 1v1 against Yoda) to make Anakin Skywalker turn over to the Dark Side as they plan all that rescuing the Senate mission and Dooku probably agreed to throw the fight. Only to get both his hands gets chopped away by Anakin and then he look over to his master to stop the fight only for Palpatine to say to Skywalker to finished him.
Dooku was going all out. A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself "oh i get it, now" and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too. It is that simple, and that complex. And it is final. Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail. ... Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste- the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax. Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke. -ROTS novel
@@omegasaiyanuchiha3426 He didn't. While he was at first trying to recruit Anakin, he showed genuine fear at both Anakin and Obi Wan's techniques, in his own monologue, he considered the situation to be quickly becoming terrifying. He was badly loosing against his solo fight against Anakin, resorted to psychologically undermining Anakin, which nerfed Anaking by making him self-conscious of his actions, only for Palpatine to give advice to Anakin on how to use the dark side, resulting in Anakin becoming even more powerful, and curb stomping Dooku. It was made very clear that Anakin using the dark side is way, way better of a duelist than Dooku.
@A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫𒈙𒐫A𒈙A𒈙I𒈙A𒈙T𒈙O𒈙Y𒈙O𒈙M𒈙A𒈙R yea... were just gonna have to agree to disagree. I like the movies but the pacing isn't great especialy in the prequels The books have time to explain things that are suggested/hinted at in the movies. Like how ppsychologically taxing force visions are. In the movie we see Anakin awake late at night and getting frustrated but the books adds to this with his pov chapters. Also Anakin was stronger or at least had the potential but was untrained. Ep 1 when Qui-gon does the blood scan basically says so
Bruh I thought I was crazy. When you first uploaded i started watching and accidentally closed it and then couldn't find it again. Searched for a good 10 mins and questioned whether I was imagining it or not
Why do people keep pushing the lie that Palpatine beat Yoda?! It was clearly a draw and at one point palpatine was being over powered by Yoda when they were both using force lighting.
Been seeing you Seth when you had a small amount off subs and now happy to see you doing good and your hard work is paying off, by far some of my fav scaling vids of any kind
Its kinda neat that throughout the series... the force can empower or weaken people . Which explains a lot of "weird scenes" that seem pretty bad. Looking at stuff like the Episode 3 fight with Palpatine and Mace... it now makes some sense. Cause spinning and yelling only to defeat 4 Jedi masters easily... looked off. at least now I know the reasons why
Thats why qui gon says your focus determines your reality. If you have fear you will stumble, and with lightsabers and crazy force powers, a simple flinch or delayed reaction, will cost you and hand or 2.
There is no "Mortis amps" for Luke. It was stated in the series that only Anakin can defeat the Son and the Daughter, because he is the only Chosen One. Not Luke. As Lucas himself also said. Full potential Anakin>>
Well the amp itself would amp anyone it only revealed how strong own is with the force on their own at peak Meaning anakin only could beat the ones that one time with said amp given it unlocked his Full potential at that moment If Luke has the same potential as anakin given such an amp would have like being on par with his father Which George Lucas himself said anakin and Luke’s potential was equal That Luke in the EU actually never reached his full power as never sought power for power sake and he was already stronger than 99% of everyone in Star Wars while holding back 24/7 Meaning luke never was truly tested in the EU till he meet abeloth, that his grand master status is not even close to his peak power Even if you were to argue he isn’t on anakin’s level you would at least have to admit he was strong enough to beat abeloth in realm of shadows via destroying her force essence meaning a battle of who was truly more powerful happens on the spiritual level, that at least be putting him in the god Tier of Star Wars where unless you are a force entity or a fated chosen one from birth like anakin No one else would beat luke if he were to be at his peak and knew every force power in the book
20:29 I always took this "1000 years" statement as to point towards either the Ruusan War, the "Dual on Tython" which was Bane and Zannah vs Jedi Lord Valenthyne Farfalla, Jedi Battlemaster Raskta Lsu, Jedi Master Worror Dowmat, and Jedi Knights Sarro Xaj and Johun Othone, which was the biggest battle between Jedi and Sith since Ruusan (as far as we know) up to the Clone Wars Era, or Darth Bane vs Darth Zannah, all of these being roughly 900 something years before. "Curiously", there is a roughly 900 year time gap in Legends between Ruusan and like Qui-Gon's early years in terms of stories in that time period, so realistically those are the only battles that could be referred to.
27:00 I always understood it as that Luke would've never gone without Obi-Wan. But Obi-Wan knew that when they would've waited any longer, the troops of the Death Star would've found a way eventually to stop the Millenium Falcon and everyone inside it. So he sacrificed himself so Luke would go and survive. There was no way incapacitating or even defeating Vader in a fast manner.
I feel like you should have included Jedi Master Fay who was is so powerful with the Force that she literally achieved the very thing that all Sith try to get, True Immortality, to the point that despite being human-like she's centuries old by the time of the Clone Wars. Whilst she was ultimately killed during the Clone Wars by Asajj Ventress her abilities showcased through the Force and accounts by multiple Jedi put her on par with some of the strongest Force users in all of Legends minus The Mortis Trio and Abeloth. Its literally stated that despite sustaining mortal wounds from Ventress that she could just regenerate anyway and even survived Ventress crushing her heart earlier. Its also stated that despite owning a lightsaber, Fay never used it a single time yet she roamed uncharted regions of the Galaxy and the Outer Rim and even fought Ventress without one. But honestly, the biggest thing is the fact that she has True Immortality, the kind that lets her remain ageless in her prime and regenerate from basically anything so long as she has enough access to the Force. She also can apparently transfer strength and other things through touch as shown when she gives Obi Wan enough strength to escape from a Separatist Factory that was about to blow up and when she first meets Obi Wan and senses he's in pain due to the events of the Clone Wars and quote 'Fills him with hope and energy' which can have several interpretations. Honestly I agree with the entire list though just thought I'd mention this really weird outlier Jedi from the Clone Wars era that was probably stronger than even Anakin in the Force.
@@closegripbenchpress489 She was only killed by Ventress due to her having to save Obi Wans life, had she not been forced to do that she'd wreck Ventress which she already had done prior to this. Ventress was only even able to harm Fay at all because she was protecting both herself and Obi Wan from being blown up in a Separatist Chemical Factory and Ventress caught her off guard because she had believed Ventress to be knocked out and was stabbed from behind. Nowhere did I say she was Ventress level. You assuming that she is just because Ventress managed to land a hit is like saying that Captain Tarples of the Gungans is mid Clone Wars General Grievous level because he managed to land the blow that incapacitated him while he was being jumped by dozens of them.
@@fdwgalaxy7658 So her best feats are beating ventress, so nowhere near obiwan level. No, there were many gungans fighting grievous and he does scale in durability since he tanked grievous a while.
Anakins force potential is technically stronger than Luke’s because his mediclorian count is like 4000 higher being 27000 while Luke’s is 23000. And yoda being 18000
So what? Rey's midi-chlorian count is over 1,000,000, is the true Chosen One, needed almost no training, and did things with the force no Jedi or Sith has done. Remember, the Force is Female 😊.
@@TribekaGaming George Lucas isn't in charge now. It's Kathleen Kennedy and the Force is Female. Luke is deceased and died a washed-up hasbeen. Rey killed Palpatine single-handedly while Luke needed his daddy to save him. Cry now 😂
Really good video Seth, I enjoyed it a lot. The only big issue I find here is Qui-Gon's scaling. Using Maul to scale Qui-Gon is downplaying Qui-Gon in a way since he suffered from stamina issues naturally due to his saber form and age only made that worse. At the beginning of their fight, before Qui-Gon is fatigued, Maul says that he's more committed to that fight than any fight previous besides a fight against Sidious and that he believes the Force favors Qui-Gon. Maul never gets the upperhand because he has greater skill or power, only because Qui-Gon slows down. To further enforce that Qui-Gon was past his prime Maul is not even considered Qui-Gon's greatest enemy by Obi-Wan post Ep. 1, Qui-Gon's fallen first apprentice Xanatos is. (Legends, Jedi Quest: Shadow Trap) Xanatos had unsurpassed mastery in his class as a student, is considered strong in the Dark side by Yoda himself, and could match Qui-Gon's ability in the Force as a PADAWAN. (Legends, Jedi Apprentice: The Dark Rival) Maul was basically a Sith Lord when he faced Qui-Gon yet still only matched Qui-Gon. And Qui-Gon was already suffering from stamina issues due to age against Xanatos, 12 years prior to his duel with Maul. He was far past his prime but still matching Maul and giving him the 2nd hardest fight of his life barring Sidious himself. And I know that other people in Star Wars generally don't face such issues with age, but Qui-Gon is explicitly stated to. Qui-Gon also shares scaling with Mace through fights against Anoon Bondara, a duelist of "unparalleled skill" and "one of the best fighters and duel instructors in the Jedi Order", where both Mace and Qui-Gon are called "superior duelists" that "humbled" Bondara each time they fought, implying they are comparable. Maul is the one who killed Anoon Bondara, calling him a worthy adversary though not as good as himself. So the guy that Qui-Gon and Mace humbled was considered a worthy opponent to Maul, but admittedly less skilled. Qui-Gon is "generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsman the Order had ever seen." (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) A statement that is quite comparable to Obi-Wan's RotS statement: "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee-four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced." Implying relativity once again. I believe Qui-Gon is the top of F tier minimum, probably the bottom of E tier. Obi-Wan's scaling is also debatable as not only was Anakin nerfed from being emotionally conflicted and not even wanting to fight Obi-Wan on Mustafar, but Obi-Wan was implicitly amped. Multiple times in the RotS novelization he is described as "letting go", an action indicative of being temporarily amped by "oneness" and following this he has moments where he is described as being guided by the Force. On Mustafar Obi-Wan attempts to Force Push Anakin and Anakin is able to match it (Obi-Wan was the attacker and Anakin was defending as per the RotS screenplay), and Obi-Wan is stated to give ground with each attack from nerfed Anakin. Knowing that your force ability generally translates to your physical ability, and seeing as nerfed Anakin at least matched Obi-Wan's push, "base" RotS Obi-Wan certainly doesn't scale to base Anakin and I'd argue he doesn't even scale to nerfed Anakin. Though Obi-Wan regularly gets "oneness" amps so it might be fair to consider it as his own power/ability and if we do then RotS Obi-Wan probably lands somewhere in E-tier. If we do not then due to base Anakin fodderizing Cin Drallig in G-tier and Obi-Wan only having a slightly better showing before being amped, "base" RotS Obi-Wan lands somewhere in F-tier with the "oneness" amp bringing him up to E-tier. As for how this effects Old Ben's scaling, if we stray from Legends then the statement about Vader being wrong could now refer to the "Kenobi" series in which Vader was once again emotionally conflicted and nerfed while Obi-Wan was amped. Meaning amped "Kenobi" Obi-Wan at most scales above nerfed Vader but probably not to base Vader as implied by Sidious saying Vader only lost because of his confliction. But Vader also said that "Kenobi" Obi-Wan's power had "returned" which could be used to scale base "Kenobi" Obi-Wan to E-tier matching amped RotS Obi-Wan, which would put amped "Kenobi" Obi-Wan in D-tier thanks to "oneness". Which actually kinda works with Starkiller's D-tier feats. It also kinda works with the established scaling of Old Ben in C-tier if we accept the statement about Vader being wrong meaning that Obi-Wan's power had truly not diminished since "Kenobi" (presumably). This would make base Old Ben D-tier and assuming he gets another "oneness" amp against nerfed "ANH" Vader, amped Old Ben could finally hit C-tier. And yes Vader is stated to be struggling to control his emotions in the ANH Novelization. But the thing I haven't mentioned about that statement saying "Vader was wrong", is that it has context. In the "ANH" Novelization Vader states that Obi-Wan still has his skill but that his power is fading and Obi-Wan says that Vader only senses one part of the Force. Obi-Wan basically self-admits that his ability in the Force is waning in terms of using it outwardly. What Vader was wrong about was his assumption that Obi-Wan had ended his study of the Force. So what that statement is saying, is that Obi-Wan had continued learning *despite* his diminishing power. So this ends with base Old Ben being somewhere in E-tier with a possibility of F-tier plus "oneness" amps to reach E-tier if we assume the worst and say that Vader is saying Old Ben is weaker than base "Kenobi" Obi-Wan. And honestly that feels very good to me in terms of both scaling and narrative, base Old Ben maxed out relative to RotS Anakin, Yoda, Mace, and if we take my earlier scaling, Qui-Gon. And they all became Force Ghosts which is just another shared "feat" TLDR: Obi-Wan- E-tier base, D-tier amped. Always gets amps while Anakin/Vader is always nerfed against him. Old Ben- probably E-tier base, possibly F-tier "Vader was wrong" statement is used out of context. Qui-Gon- top of F-tier minimum, low E-tier in my opinion. Was regularly suggested as being relative to Mace and was heavily nerfed against Maul.
Problem with qui gon is he scales to pre tpm mace windu who has no real scaling so this doesn't help qui gon at all and his placement should overall just be the same. I mean tcw maul thinks palpatine is the strongest force user he has seen and then mace can defeat palpatine now I know it was with vappad but even without vappad he is still stated the strongest jedi or equal to yoda many times so he should still be on that level so it kinda break the consistent scaling going on with mace yoda and palpatine being on their own tier while everyone else is below them.
@@Vader255 No scaling? Mace has no real growth between Ep 1 and Ep 3, he had already mastered Vapaad when the statements comparing him and Qui-Gon were made. Everyone is trying to reach that Mace/Dooku/Yoda tier up until Ep. 3. Also Mace didn’t beat Palpatine, in the Novelization’s Vapaad is stated to have allowed no more than a stalemate, impasse.
@@Nezxmi so i would argue mace did grow in power because dooku claims pre tpm when he was a jedi that he would smack mace in duels all time but then mace after tpm can fight a stronger dooku and fight stronger force users Mace then in rots is on par with anakin due to many statements and then anakin can stomp out dooku. I would also say due to mace fighting all these force users he is just getting stronger through fighting like other jedi. Mace fights many people like Grievous,Sora Bulq,Quin lan vos,Deppa Bilaba,Ventress,and others so these battles just made him grow in power.
@@Vader255 Dooku never claimed to smack Mace all the time but they have beaten each other with statements saying to beat Mace you had to be Yoda or Dooku, implying relativity between them all. Keep in mind Dooku is Mace’s elder by an entire 30 years. And Anakin does not stomp out Dooku, only after getting a rage amp due to Obi-Wan getting rag-dolled does Anakin definitively overwhelm Dooku. So they are all relative. And yes Dooku got stronger as a Sith, but that power differential is made up for by Vapaad leaving Mace with the advantage due to Shatterpoint. Vapaad is why Mace can face Dooku or even Sidious and appear to have grown in power significantly, he is just in a more optimal situation. Everyone else mentioned naturally scales below Mace so those aren’t feats thats upscale him. To introduce even more scaling for Qui-Gon, according to a Canon “Top 5 Red Lightsaber wielders” list ranks Ventress at 5, Tyrannus at 4, and Maul at 3. That’s right, Maul is canonically ranked above Dooku. That would scale Qui-Gon above Dooku, as Qui-Gon was explicitly matching Maul’s strikes and power. And this is consistent with Sidious being surprised and disappointed that he lost Maul while always considering Dooku to be a Pawn.
@@Nezxmi Oh i know those people don't upscale him the point is these force users get stronger through fighting and i was just listing some of the battles he has been in. Grievous was on par with mace in their fight. No so mace did not use vappad on dooku during their brief fight so he just fought dooku with just his base power so this shows he did increase in power. Here is the statement of dooku vs mace i was talking about “You were never able to defeat me at the Jedi Temple, and you won’t defeat me now.” Source: The Clone Wars - Lightsaber Duels But even if dooku and mace were around the same level as jedi that just means mace did indeed get stronger. Also qui gon only spars with mace not an all out duel so it can not be scaled. That guide is contradicted by many other statements witch i wlll post below that say dooku is way more skilled than maul. Also the guide is most likely talking about prime maul not tpm maul and we know maul is becoming stronger and more skilled after his defeat by obi wan. Here are the statements More sophisticated, more calculating, and if anything deadlier than Maul, Count Dooku (a.k.a. Darth Tyranus) proved himself more than a match for the combined skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones. Source: Panel-to-Panel Volume 1 Canon "Count Dooku's fall has troubled us all," Obi-Wan acknowledged. "Now we have a great and powerful enemy." His thoughts turned to his battle with Dooku. He had never met such power in battle before. He had never come up against something that had completely overpowered him. Even meeting the Sith Lord who had killed Qui-Gon had not been the same. Source: Legacy of the Jedi At the risk of getting a slew of Maul-loving mail, the short answer is that Count Dooku is more skillful than Maul. Think of Maul as a bulldog of a Jedi-killer. He attacks at full speed, full tilt, holding nothing back. That approach has its merits, but it doesn't always apply. Dooku was much more restrained and sophisticated, and he had a much better grasp of Jedi techniques and tactics. Maul was an impressive flurry of fury, barely giving his opponent time to think. Dooku, on the other hand, countered Kenobi's moves almost effortlessly because he knew precisely where to block. This left Dooku with the energy to deliver the surprise blows when his opponent dropped his guard. Source: Insider #69 Also people like sasse tinn can stalemate mace in their sparring sessions so i think its consistent these jedi hold back as sasse tinn gets bodied by palpatine and i know mace was amped by vappad but he was not amped in the fist part of the fight and can still deflect strikes Mace as well to show he gets stronger he is stated below kar vastor but then in after some fights and then when he fights vastor he can fight an amped vastor while he is injured and maybe mentally nerfed as he is worried for deppa.
Anakin getting defeated by Obi Wan is not an anti feat. Obi Wan was the best user of form three, Soresu, according to Count Dooku. Form three is the perfect counter to Anakin's aggressive deuling style, form five. Also, unlike Anakin, Obi Wan wasn't conflicted.
Mace defiantly won the fight against Sidious and he would probably would've won later on simply because of his style. Vaapad is a perfect counter against any Sith. Basically the stronger the Sith is in the force the stronger a Vaapad user becomes. Matchups play a big part in dueling. Yoda was definably stronger in the force but Mace was a better matchup which is why he won
Wrong, the Novelization clearly says that Vapaad allows Mace no more than a stalemate, that without finding Sidious' shatterpoint he is stuck at an impasse. And Anakin is Sidious' only shatterpoint, so Mace could literally never win.
Yeah I always felt full potential Anakin could defeat legends Grand Master Luke. I know this topic is somewhat debatable but Anakin one way or another was concieved by the force itself even if it was being manipulated by the Sith. Luke being his son of course would have great potential as well but I feel also being the offspring of a non force sensative like Padme would have to dilute Luke's power at least somewhat
George stated that all skywalkers have the same potential and Luke reached anakins full potential in canon so full potential anakin vs grandmaster luke is basically a tie
this video just makes me depressed. Disney had all this to use and make proper good star wars content including Strong powerful women in the form of mara and jaina and they instead spat all over the fan base and made the most abyssmal garbage I've ever watched in my life. I'll never forgive them for what they did to luke either.
Very clear someone was feeding Seth points from an echo chamber. Lot of missteps in this one. Also it is hilarious seeing Seth having zero issue appealing to people like Kishimoto and Tite Kubo for intent on stream, yet when the canon literally has a hierarchy policy built in to give the author (Lucas) authority Seth is fine sidestepping it with no proper justification Very disapointing.
@@solo8123 Idk much about post ROTJ legends stuff, but putting Qui-Gon, whose best feat is fighting 1 guy twice, being tired as hell after the first (he would've died there without the others rescuing them) and dying during the second, higher than the likes of Revan and the Hero of Tython is ridiculous. They both have ridiculous feats but just 1 for each is enough. The Hero of Tython invaded the Sith homeworld, fought through the Sith temple, almost reached the emperor but then turned back to save his friends, then went back and killed the emperor. Revan invaded the Star Forge, neg diffed the whole army while they were amped by Bastila's battle meditation, and that's pretty much a guaranteed win for one side 99% of the time, then killed Malak, who during their fight, restored his own health multiple times by draining the life out of captured Jedi while already being amped by the Star Forge itself. Yeah... Qui-Gon is not doing any of that.
@@arpadszabo661 Qui-Gon being exhausted after fighting Maul has more to do with the caliber of the enemy he's fighting than anything else. Maul is no pushover. At the age of 7 his scream could could collapse entire buildings, by TPM he scaled massively above Darth Bane who in one of his weaker iterations could incinerate the entire surface of a planet with no issue. Jinn is stated to be Mauls near equal. That alone means he slaps 90% of this list. And that's not even touching his G-Canon scaling above Suit Vader.
OK so a few issues I have with your scaling : -Assuming that Jedi Revan is weaker than fodder Jedi because he lost to Vitiate. -Assuming that Vitiate is weaker than rule of 2 Sith despite feats indicating otherwise. -Assuming that people who survived Nihilus are weaker than those who died to Grievous and Storm Troopers. Really? Nihilus isn't even a Sith. He is a gaping hole in the force created by the dark side after a planet's annihilation. A walking Dathomir. The very planet that modern Jedi are too afraid to approach. But my main gripe is assuming that the Star Forge, the masterpiece of the Rakata empire, the very empire that inspired Sith technology and alchemy, and achieved what the Sith only dreamt of doing is something trivial. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For anyone who's never heard of the Rakatan infinite empire, here's a perspective : -Darth Pleagis was considered strong in the dark side because he used it to create life. The infinite empire created every life form in the modern galaxy to use them as slaves. -It took the rule of two eons to produce Sideous, a Sith strong enough to completely take over the galaxy. Yet his reign only lasted less than a century. The infinite empire lasted for a little over 11000 years and were only exterminated by the Star forge. -In various sources, we see Sideous trying to create strong dark side artifacts for his own use, that is considered peak Sith alchemy. The Rakata's entire technology was based on Sith Alchemy and required a strong connection to the force to use. Their most common weapon, the force saber was downgraded into modern lightsabers. -Sidious' death star, that many people consider to be the reason of his loss, was created as a monument to the dark side. Something that will survive as Sidious' legacy after his death. The Star forge is beyond that. It can create anything by annihilating solar matter. A massive factory of the dark side. ------------------------------------------------------------- The Star forge didn't just destroy the Rakata, it took away their very ability to use the force and controlled them into killing each other. Imagine something that can strip an entire empire of powerful dark siders from their connection to the force. How is that trivial? TL:DR I can agree that rule of 2 Sith continuously get stronger and that Bane was the strongest Sith of his era (even dho there are counter statements), but there are exceptions to this rule like the Rakata and their Star Forge, Darth Vitiate post Ritual, Nihilus and Peak Revan. Even assuming that every rule of 2 Sith is above ancient Sith is wrong, this only applies to the Master. Sith apprentices are just dark siders who won't reach that peak until their master's death, let alone mere Sith assassins like Maul of Ventress. We're even using Storm Troopers and a piece of Junk like Grievous for scaling now?
It all comes down to Darth Bane's statements being really contradictory, Bane being >>> Vitiate and Exar Kun is laughable, at most he is relative to SF Malak, and weaker to Malgus, Prime Revan and fodder to Vitiate.
Hello Seth, I (and many other people) would like you to accurately scale Kratos, and I say “Accurately” because In your last video about kratos you stated that GoW 4 Kratos is Slightly Weaker than GoW 3 Kratos when Cory Barlog himself has stated GoW 4 Kratos would Defeat GoW 3 Kratos *without question.* Im also very interested in this video, and eagerly awaiting the next video about Kratos whenever that might be, keep up the great work! Also, what did you Think about Obi Wan Kenobi?
Kratos in God of war 3 is also stated by another guy can't remember his name who works on the game to be stronger than god of war 4 kratos. Kratos gow 3 has more evidence to support he is stronger anyways
@@Vader255 Cory Barlog is the Creator and Director of God of War 4, so his word is fact. And I don’t think everyone takes into account God of War 4 Kratos Holds Back the ENTIRE game and we see a glimpse of him not being able to control himself, and this is when modi ambushes them in Tyr’s temple. Atreus enters Spartan rage and Nearly dies, Then Kratos in his Rage, Basically One Shots Modi.
Seth was saying that the God of War Kratos that we play as, and performs all of the feats, is weaker than GoW 3 Kratos. Not that GoW 4 Kratos at full power, is weaker than GoW 3 Kratos at full power.
@@Zoxxies so pretty much Bruno.M he is the lead animator of God of war 2018 and I'd say he has more say and the creative director has to actually report to the lead animator. Bruno pretty much says Hermes is faster than baldur and also says zeus slaps Baldur. Bladur is stronger than that God of war 4 kratos. Also Cory says he demolishes gow 3 kratos witch is vague and isn't specific. Also kratos in gow 4 loses all of his amps and abilities and equipment so he is way weaker than gow 3 kratos
1. Keep in mind that due to padawan Obi-Wan constantly getting knocked out of the fight, that would throw Qui-Gon off guard. Not to mention he would have to make sure his padawan wouldn't die, against an opponent that neither have experience against like you said 2. Qui-Gon was old, and quickly tiring, we even see it earlier in the movie 3. Not only did Qui-Gon have the upper hand sometimes, he outright knocked Maul off of the platform they were on. If he didn't get lucky and land on another platform, Qui-Gon would've won the fight then and there. Luck saved Maul, just as it saved Kenobi in that fight 4. Force suppression like you stated, AND Maul bringing him to an area where it countered Qui-Gon's form and made it harder to fight. While already exhausted. Against an opponent he had no experience fighting. While making sure his padawan didn't die. And he almost won anyways, with luck saving his opponent. Qui-Gon is a beast and honestly with that and him equaling Mace Windu in sparring, I'd put him on Dooku's level, maybe slightly higher.
@@theoldhermit2601 I wouldn't go that far it's still stated qui gon and obi wan are match for obi wan even without the circumstances so he's on the same tier as Tpm maul not dooku. Also in sparring these jedi hold back and pre tpm mace doesn't even really scale anywhere
In both of these videos you just listed them in chronological order. In AotC Mace openly states that their power has been diminishing, which contradicts the later = stonger idea. Truthfully both sides probably peaked around the end of the Old Republic/Bane era
I agree Because the biggest issue is the rule of 2 doesn’t directly transfer power or stack on top of one another If that was state case one sith can use essence transfer and live in many bodies up to the events of the prequels The Jedi don’t actually get stronger during the 1000 year peace And someone like yoda is probably the last of the very good Jedi since he was trying for 800 years straight So even if it was in a time of peace yoda as more a reason to be powerful then all other Jedi With someone like mace sidious could have easily killed if he wasn’t holding off for Anakin Sidious js actully considered worse then dooku when it comes to lightsaber combat And dooku can match yoda and beat every Jedi in a duel outside of yoda and rage amped anakin It’s just a case Sidious is only powerful in the sense the Jedi thought they were already better so they slacked off when the sith kept improving Even thinking they were extinct or that they were no match for them
Finally someone with reason, all the Luke bandwagons need to actually understand the lore, if abeloth is 12 times stronger than GM Luke, and Luke could only defeat her with the help of others while she was weakened, that just shows how strong Anakin was at that time, and how strong he could’ve become since he took out the son and daughter, who each alone were stronger than abeloth, no debate anymore
You are using both canon and legends here, and it doesn't make sense. You can't put them together, the powerscaling is different. Obi Wan is not stronger than Yoda, Mace and Anakin. And yes, full potential Anakin is the strongest. He was destined to replace the Father, a God.
Yes, that's the quickest way to insult Legends fans is that even though canon fans SEEM to want more of our shit in their continuity to sponge off of, _we_ want less of their shit in OUR universe. Force Dyad? Hell no.
Luke doesn't have more potential than Anakin. It doesn't matter what random Disney/Legends writers are saying. Anakin is the child of the force and he was destined to replace the Father, a freaking God.
Great analysis, but i just have a tiny problem. In my opinion, i still believe that Abeloth is much more powerful than The Son and Daughter. One of the most important thing in Star Wars is that Force Users can sense each other's power, so even if Abeloth is supposedly weaker than them, they should still be able to think rationally and control their mother better. Maybe The Daughter would be afraid, but The Son would most likely try to calm her down since he has the biggest ego out of all of them. And as for the statement where it said that she's weaker than the Celestials, it could mean that it was comparing Abeloth's power to the The Ones as a whole, not them individually. My point is that Abeloth's whole narrative seems to imply that she's this Kaguya level enemy where only her superior Isshiki(or in this case The Father) can beat her, plus she got her Force ability from both the Font of Powers and Pool of Knowledge, kinda implies that she's above the level of them.
I think where she scales is entirely dependant on where you scale Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt in comparison to The Son and The Daughter since they were able to defeat her multiple times over a thousand year period.
@@fdwgalaxy7658 To be fair, she was imprisoned by The Son and Daughter at full power. Anakin defeated The Son and Daughter when they were focused on other people while also not taking the fight seriously due to it just being a test. Not trying to undermine Anakin's feat, it's just that what he did isn't like him soloing both of them in a real fight.
@@fred9515 I agree that is a fair point, I also forgot that leading up to the fight against Darth Krayt and Luke, Abeloth lost all her duplicates which was said to weaken her considerably. I guess the real question lies in how you interpret the way the Font Of Power and the Pool Of Knowledge works when combined with someone. Is it Font + Pool with no negatives? Is it Font + Pool but because Abeloth is Human there's a nerf of some kind that prevents her from utilizing the full power possible? You could debate it many ways honestly with even the Madness she sustained after the Father, Son and Daughter abandoned her being either a permanent kind of amp or nerf. I don't know enough about Force scaling to really offer a solid answer but its interesting to think about.
In the end Anakin should be on top regardless. Which he is, so whats the issue? Lmfao. Abeloth scaled to 12x grandmaster luke, and is also directly stated to be weaker than characters Anakin beat. Saying the statement refers to all of them combined is headcanon, and making some kind of kaguya parallel also isn't relevant lol. Abeloth isnt as strong as celestials. Thats literally just stated outright, and again it wouldnt even matter because Anakin would still be the strongest by lightyears lmao
@@ExtraVictory No, it isn't headcanon because like i said before, Force users can sense each other's powers so it makes no sense as to why The Son and Daughter would be so afraid if they're supposedly stronger than their mother. Also, that statement contradicts the fact that it takes BOTH The Son and Daughter working together to imprison her, yet it said that she's weaker than the Celestials? So no, the statement is probably referring to them as a whole, not individually. By the way, i'm not talking about Anakin here, why did you even bring him up?
Video got corrupted last time I uploaded it so I had to redo it, thanks to everyone who rewatches. Also a huge shoutout to Crisis for writing the majority of the video with some of my inputs, it really helps me expand what I do and lets me upload stuff while I work hard in the background.
And uh, I recorded this video with my phone.. I need a new mic and I wasn't home lol
It’s all good. Also use that sponsor money to get a new mic lmao
corrupted? 💀
@@royyheboy315 no one said that Programmin was an easy job 😔 sometimes your safety gets breached
That's why this comment is sponsored by Surfshark VPN
I thought you ran into a different problem. Glad I'm getting to watch it now.
Wuv u you're amazing
I think part of the reason Obi-wan held as long to Vader, is because he is the best Soresu fighter, which is all defensive, while Vader uses a hybrid styles of a few of them and smart use of the force, to compensate for his mechanical limb’s. Also Vader is arguably the best duelist in Star Wars, while Obi-wan is the best defensive fighter.
You forgot the very basic reasons which would be Obi-Wan trained Anikin and is very familiar. Did you ever think maybe his defenses is so good because Anikin's offense was so good or vice versa ? All that other bable is just a bunch of text book technical nonsense to describe what logic can describe easily and that is 2 vastly power force users got even more powerful practicing with each other. The styles are just the results of them getting used to each other.
@@garryjohnson9328 together they were a powerful unit. Anakins focus on offense complimented Obi wan's defensive style.
@@baki484 the reason for that is because of them training together. If you remember Obi-Wan was far more offensive of a fighter when he was a padawan which is why he beat Darth Maul. It was the constant training with a naturally more gifted padawan that made him defensive and thee master of Soresu.
@@garryjohnson9328 I know obiwan was an Ataru practitioner before before he became a soresu practitioner.
@@baki484 well most do. I just can't believe they haven't put together why or how Obi-Wan mastered Soresu better than anyone else even though he was considered not as gifted.
Is it a little ironic that some of the strongest and most powerful jedi were the descendants of a slave from Tatooine
They’re descendants of that universes space Jesus. Of course they’d be strong.
Ironic
No, ironic would be the wrong word to use
Look who just figured out Star Wars, well done buddy
How is it ironic?
S++: Full potential Anakin with the high ground
only S+ if he going against obiwan with bag of sand
Anakin having the high ground is as possible as me having a girlfriend.
@@tatianapostovan7771 yeah Anakin reaaallyy likes sand😂
S++Infinity Class Tier: Young Prime Full Potential True Total Oneness Mortis Gray Force-wielder Anakin Skywalker (Star Wars Expanded Universe) with the age, mastery, skill, knowledge, and experience of Young Prime Full Potential The Father of Mortis (Star Wars Expanded Universe) who's young, at the peak of his prime, fully uninjured (has all four of his limbs and tissue), and is at his true absolute full maximum Force potential with the High Ground is the most powerful Force Adept, Force Being, Force Entity, Force God, Force-user, and Force-wielder of all time ever in existence in the entire Official Star Wars Expanded Universe Canon Lore fictional popular culture media series.
I mean, he's *LITERALLY* The Chosen One of the Force; The Son of the Suns of the Whills; and the child of The Supreme Maker (God/the Star Wars God/George Lucas' Avatar in Star Wars), the Force, The Whills, and the Will/Whill of the Force (meaning the Will/Whill of God/The Supreme Maker/the Star Wars God/George Lucas' Avatar).
Actually George Lucas said Luke met his full potential and was equally as powerful as animal could have been!
The fact they needed to nerf Qui-Gon through force suppression to make him lose against Maul shows how much of a monster he really his. Underrated character
What is force suppresion exactly
@@bigirononmyhip3812 the Jedi order were blind to the siths uprising before episode 1
@@DH702.. that doesnt explain how it weakened qui gon
@@bigirononmyhip3812 it’s just some bullshit they added in after the movie I’d guess to hype up qui gon even more.
@@bigirononmyhip3812 maul used his greater connection to the force to limit qui gon ability to tap into the force
Hey seth no funny shit but the number of franchises you make videos about such as reading guides, books and comics is really outstanding to me… from star wars to greek mythology, anime to the MCU and even the DC universe. You don’t get much recognition and praise for the shit you do but man… you have my everlasting respect. This aint an easy job you doing here and i am grateful to know that i’m subbed to a legend like you!
Found the biggest Seth meat rider
Seth is like the most popular UA-camr regarding powerscaling videos
@@nyaruko-do2ok and the gayest cause he doesn't do one piece powerscaling
@@efeaslan9063 One Piece scaling is simple based in my own POV
Yonko>>>Admiral>>>Revolutionary Army top commanders >>>Shichibukai>>> current Supernova>>>Tobi Roppo>>>Minks>>>Fishman.
Individually is much more difficult (who is still alive currently)
Out of order: Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon, Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh, Luffy, Kaido, Blackbeard, Akainu.
@@omegasaiyanuchiha3426 Mihawk : hold my beer.
Qui-gon should scale higher. Qui-gon was relatively old in TPM and was using a force-intensive form, Ataru. Next, Qui-gon was trained by Dooku and had thousands of sparing matches with him. Lastly, Quigon fought Windu to a standstill in their sparing matches.
Agreed I left a long comment arguing about what prime Qui-Gon would actually be. I say he lands at top of F-tier or bottom of E-tier. Arguments against E-tier could be made since Qui-Gon died so early and a lot of power growth happened between Ep. 1 and Ep. 3, but I'd argue Mace did not grow significantly stronger therefore Qui-Gon would still be relative to Ep. 3 Mace and could make bottom of E-tier.
@@Nezxmi Qui-Gon in low E-tier would be fine. Nick Gilliard did state in his emails that Qui-Gon > ROTS Fisto, and Fisto was rated a 7. That would make Prime Qui-Gon at least an 8 which supports him sparring Mace to a standstill pre-TPM given Mace is also in the 8 category. Lastly, Mace already had Vaapad for a long time before TPM since he trained Depa Billaba in it and Depa was on the council before TPM.
@@charzanboo9940 tpm mace has no scaling nor statements mace scales no where qui gon belows in the bottom tiers
100%, we only saw Qui-Gon out of his prime but he was highly respected for a reason. Dooku even made a remark about how he wished he had Qui-Gon's help, and that Obi-Wan in Episode 2 was a disappointment by comparison
@@charzanboo9940 Gillard is inconsistent as hell, and Fisto kept up with Grievous, while Qui-Gon is sup tpm Maul.
Thankful for the re upload…didn’t get to watch it the first time around.
I feel this I watched about half of it then I had to leave. I was so Sad when I came back and it was gone! Glad he brought it back!
One last thing about Qui-Gon: we see in both Canon and legends that mindset effects your power. Examples are Vader being conflicted and in the new show, Obi-Wan becoming stronger when he clears his mind.
Qui-Gon, had the single most calm and wise mindset of all the jedi in the prequels. Yoda didn't even learn what Qui-Gon knew until the original trilogy.
This doesn't make Qui-Gon the strongest jedi, but it's another point in favor of him being very powerful
LMAO
@@LifeisANoveltf kinda response is that
@@lukecodz Lmao
I'm Super casual in star wars. But rank E caught me by suprise! I thought Mace Windu was top tier after pretty confidently beating Sidious before he got ambushed.
Legends scaling is crazy
Legends canon is scary lol. StarKiller legends canon has some crazy scaling
I mean he's in the same tier as yoda and anakin. That's top tier.
Palpatine gets stronger in the empire era.
One thing worth mentioning about these tier lists is that someone not being S-A-B rank doesn't mean they are not ridiculously powerful, since the top tier characters are completely out of hand when it comes to their power. Like, It's fair to put Revan in H compared to everyone else in this list, but in his time, he was so ridiculous that he was seen as the heart of the force by Kreia. Even in SWTOR, after he was shattered into light side Revan (Force ghost) and dark side Revan (who resurrected), he was so powerful that it took the player character (which doesn't mean much since it can vary between the emperor's wrath and a smuggler) current Jedi grand master, multiple sith lords, etc, to bring him down. Mace Windu is stronger than that, which is pretty amazing.
Once again, a fantastically crafted follow up!
NOOO not u evan
The man, the myth, the legend!
Ayyyyyy my boy evan nova! Hell yeah
Its clear Evan is friends with Seth or something
EVAN I CANT BELIEVE ITS YOU
Nice one, Captain!
Didn't expect to see you here :) love your videos man, you're underrated as hell
@@theoldhermit2601
Agreed
I know you said a Full Potential Luke was only hypothetical, but I think Anakin is the only one who can get the Mortis amp because he is the Chosen One.
I don't think so, i read from some guy that it's apparently because the Force is so strong in Mortis that it can amplify anyone to reach their full potential.
I think there are multiple Chosen Ones in Star Wars
@@punkrider8758 nah it was even said that anakin is the only chosen one
@@anormalguy9346 You're right, it's not about Anakin being the chosen one, it's about the force in Mortis
@@punkrider8758 not really, you could say Luke was chosen to defeat and bring back the chosen one but he's not the actual chosen one
The "every generation is stronger than the last" theme really messes with the scaling
It also bothers me how the scaling can completely change just because of one throwaway line from a comic or novel.
It’s weird that a Jedi order that has spent a millennium at peace somehow produced better warriors than a war time Jedi order
@@WumboJumbo96
That’s why I prefer Canon in terms of scaling, as blasphemous as that sound. It’s a little more consistent.
@@arnahunas4048 yeah kylo struggling against Finn and then being stated by GML to be above everyone he has ever encountered is very consistent
@@vaas7743 I said A LITTLE. A series about space wizards isn’t going to be completely consistent 100% of the time. Kylo had also just killed his dad & gotten shot in the abdomen so he wasn’t at his best.
Full potential Anakin in the Mortis arc is the strongest force user in canon. Of course, he had the benefit of being on Mortis and he never achieved that potential, but considering he’s basically the Force incarnate, the way he ragdolled the Son and Daughter is such a brilliant feat. Just like the Father stated, Anakin was way beyond the concept of Jedi and Sith.
Eh, I'd still say the Father is most likely above him (at his prime) due to experience
you mean the "it was all a dream" filler arc? cmon guys, please.
@@satanmcqueen7538
Jesus Christ please don't
I think an living anakin is different from a dead one/ What i mean is that full potential anakin living is equal tot he father while Anakin dead becomes one with the force and maintains balance indirectly surpassing every being,
You’re a legend for not including any of the Disney fanfic characters
Ashoka: 👀
@@mrmackellar3337 She was made before Disney bought Star Wars
@@cosmo1240 But she's always been Dave Filoni's special waifu OC character. That's how he's treated her, and no amount of corporate spin will convince me she was George's creation, with how hard Filoni has ridden herd on her.
@@saberiandream316 that still doesn’t change the fact she was created before the Disney buyout lol
@@YoungKalis96 TCW led the way to the Disney canon, so yes, I stand by my words.
More Star Wars content from Seth?
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
He just reuploaded the same video
Remember seeing a thread of Mace Windu Vs Revan in a fight. People favored Revan over Windu for some reason, as when I pointed out how Windu would win since he was overpowering Sidious and how the rule of two produced stronger Sith each generation, they thought I was crazy
Revan fans are like itachi fans.
Stg yo atleast i wasn’t the only one distress
@@brendonclark4705 They need to be stopped ☠️
I thought this was common star wars knowledge lol
Hes more effective against dark side combatants, revan could just only use light side against him.
This is an incredibly detailed video. Bro has all the receipts with this one. Well done sir.
So something I always wondered, why does Luke get so powerful in a few years, with less teachers, but Anakin as the chosen one spends nearly a decade with Jedi masters and knowledge everywhere, not to mention a full war to gain experience. How does Luke become stronger than that by the time of Episode V? I get that Luke is a prodigy in his own right, but seems a bit dramatic to me. Still a great character tho.
Well it's important to note that even though Luke "beats" Vader he is never stronger than Vader. Vader is nerfed by emotional confliction and he also just doesn't want to kill his son.
But as stated with the Anakin AotC statements the difference in ability between two individuals is not always raw power, more often than not the difference in ability comes down to who has the better control. 19 year old AotC Anakin matches Yoda in terms of "power" but not control, and only 3 years later in RotS Anakin's control is comparable to Yoda's. So control can be rapidly honed, "power" is what takes years to accumulate. ANH Luke has most of his "power" potential unlocked, also being 19 years old, but his control is practically zero. 3 years later in ESB he is comparable to RotS Anakin. That's actually remarkably consistent.
That statement only makes sense if Vader is talking strongest in terms of potential. I don't have Shadows of the Empire available to look at that quote in full context but from excerpts I see from the book on the internet, Vader draws a lot of parallels between Luke and himself back in his youth. With that being said, I think it's reasonable to assume that Jedi grow faster during times of conflict versus times of peace, especially when it comes to bad students like Anakin was and how much he improved during the clone wars, so that might explain how Luke grew strong in a short period of time. I wouldn't call ESB Luke comparable to RotS Anakin though, I don't think he even had any formal lightsaber training before he read Obi-wan's journals after ESB.
@@lolmuffins1 Well for one, Anakin was not a bad student. Quite the opposite, he was hated by his fellow students for his natural talent and generally beloved by his many instructors.
As for ESB Luke being comparable to RotS Anakin, he may even exceed that scaling. You are not wrong to assume that Vader could be talking about potential as Luke’s potential is brought up many times throughout Shadows of the Empire but I’d still argue that he is not. Every time Luke’s potential is brought up, it’s stated to be greater than Vader’s, greater than the Emperor’s, even equal to prime Anakin. In the statement where Vader calls Luke his equal and the strongest of them all, he further goes on to say that Luke will either join the Dark Side or Luke will die, but it will be the duel of a lifetime. So the statement implies relativity but still places Luke below Vader. This would mean the statement is not referring to Luke’s “greater than Vader” potential.
@@Nezxmi I just don't understand how Luke managed to do what Anakin couldn't basically by himself? Only thing I can think of is Obi Wan and Yoda teaching Luke the most important and best techniques in the force leaving out all the unnecessary bs, but even that seems a bit extra. I think a few years of the clone wars would be more realistic than a few sessions with obi Wan. I could also say maybe they weren't too focused on making anakin a crazy force wielder more so the general he was.
@@SpaceGhostQ Honestly it's debatable but you could say that Luke's natural talent alongside Obi-Wan's journal, which would probably have extensive notes on the perfected versions of form 3 and form 5, allowed him to skip the whole process of optimizing each form and that's how.
But I'd personally just say that Luke's power rivaled RotS Anakin's in ESB but his skill did not. In the comics set between ANH and ESB Luke fights two magnaguards to a stalemate while RotS Anakin has a feat of fighting 4 in TCW. Luke's immense raw power simply allowed him to compensate for his lack of extended formal training at first and each time he engaged Vader was basically intensive training since Vader didn't actually want him dead. I wouldn't definitively put Luke on RotS Anakin's skill level until RotJ, when Luke is "instantaneously" learning and mirroring Vader's Form V against Vader himself, though maybe he is beyond RotS Anakin at that point.
Excellent video, good on you for sticking with Legends.
I loved Legends even before it was Legends, back when it was still the EU. And Disney can go kiss shit for terminating it instead of continuing in parallel as Legends. I know many fans hate the banner, but I could accept it being Legends if they weren't so safe and predictable with it, and just let it wallow with intent to keep it in limbo forever.
Can’t wait to see full potential Anakin being number 1
Someone told me that Anakin is stronger than Darth Vader and I don’t even know what to say
Doesn’t Vader automatically scale above Anakin?
@@Zoxxies not automatically, technically Anakin has more force potential and physical speed due to having all his limbs (midichlorian count, it sucks I know but it's Canon) but Vader scales above Anakin due to experience, pain amps (his suit) and his unique saber form.
He is
he is.
His force power and speed is nerfed compared to Anakin, but his physical strength is a lot higher
Lists like this really go to show how much Anakin was screwed over by Sidious and the Jedi Council, he had the potential to reach heights we haven't even seen, despite it having been so long since the inception of the franchise, but ultimately never reached them due to the plot of the story.
@@DisastrousIntentionally i mean chosen one Anakin, as in an Anakin who would've embraced both the light and dark sides of the force, i believe a Vader that had beaten Obi Wan (no wounds nor missing limbs) would've been inferior to an Anakin who would've embraced both sides of the force as one.
It’s weird that a Jedi order that has spent a millennium at peace somehow produced better warriors than a war time Jedi order
You must become one with the Force. Spiritually to strengthen your pul lwith it so makes sense because ppl just harboring anger and skill uses the other side of the force which is quite good but they miss the major ability to control the bigger power of the force as they say its all around.
I really admire the parallel and contrast editing shots of Darth Vader walking in a very bright environment with rain, only to be contrasted with Anakin in a dark area with fire. It rhymed like poetry at 21:38.
Imagine starkiller getting his own show. I honestly think it would be interesting. Sadly I think Disney wouldn’t do him justice
Starkiller is from Legends, they'd probably butcher him, and then that would lead to casual fans thinking that Legends Starkiller and Disney Starkiller are the same, which would then lead to them assuming that Starkiller is not that cool
Considering how overpowered he is, he needs to stick to games to be enjoyable
@@punkrider8758
IMO, they did Thrawn really well (and even better than Legends in some regards) so I wouldn’t be completely against it.
I think I personally disagree with the idea that the Jedi/Sith always get progressively stronger. Saesee Tiin over Revan for example doesn't make much sense to me.
Agreed. Nihilus would also be able to kill most others in the right scenario.
They get stronger most of the time but they can face nerfs
@@newhybrid101 Right, and most of the Jedi/Sith he mentions from the past are the best of the best (Revan, Meetra, etc.) Whereas we get a list of lots of Jedi from the prequels, even those who weren't the best.
Yeah I agree, not sure where seth got that from as it doesn't reflect much with the characters. If I were to guess it's the fact that the rule of two was designed to distill the strength of the sith over the generations, but that's more of an ideology rather than a confirmed fact. Case in point, Plaugis was arguably stronger in the force than Palpatine, why would he need to finish him when he was asleep and drunk? I'd say it's about knowledge rather than power as Palpatine by return of the jedi was much stronger than he was as Plaugis's apprentice
@@YuVen3487 If you want to know where Seth gets his facts from, re watch 6:07 to 7:49 and actually pay attention to the video this time. You don't have to guess, just pay attention to the video. It's objectively not more of an ideology, It's an objective fact that the Sith get stronger and stronger as Seth highlights. Your case in point is garbage, and it's clear to me now that you wouldn't actually be re watching the video, you'd be watching it for the first time. Why do people like you comment before watching a video? Does it not occur to you that you might learn more about someone's opinion from them just telling you their opinion? Seriously, just re watch from 6:07 to 7:49.
I really do love the inclusion of starkiller he's definitely one of my favourite star wars characters main because he's really powerful while not being a skywalker showing that you don't have to be related to the chosen one to be a beast in the force.
I honestly thought Revan would rank a little higher, given all the hype and power he's discussed as having, especially since Vitiate kinda was built to be a sort of "ancient-proto-Sidious" with how he basically achieved the same thing Sidious wanted, and apparently had the potential ability to drain whole planets. It's been forever since I've seen the Sith video, though.
He’s not the planet-drainer.
@@IAmGodHimself777 Vitiate? Yeah, before he started swapping bodies, he actually drained the planet he was born on. It's no Nihilus feat, but it shows he had the potential to possibly do it again.
@@DelinquentChibi hmmm, it seems I was wrong. Sorry.
Yeah I agree. Not saying Revan should be at the top, but personally I don't get these ranking videos. Basically he just sorts them chronologically and the ones in the past are ranked as weaker.
@@natem9080 He uses the canon lore of "new gen > old gen" even if he scales with legends characters and feats despite multiple feats and statements in legends contradicting that. He also fails to take in to consideration context (sometimes, not all the time) and story elements.
I wonder how many Dweebs fell out their chairs with Revan being ranked so low
Kreia/Traya's comments on Surik being the greatest cannot comply with Revan's novel, as Meetra herself states Revan's ability with the force is greater than anything she'd ever experienced, this and she became Revan's apprentice, not to mention how Darth Nyriss defeated Surik and scourge together, a weakened Revan goes on to reflect Nyriss's attack with ease incinerating her.
Bane whose knowledge mostly came from Darth Revan, the guy before he leant centuries of knowledge from Vitiate. The Quote regarding bane being beyond all those that came before, doesn't hold up in terms of feats, scaling, and a manner of contradictory evidence, such as Exar kun, and Karness muur, the latter by Vader's own admission after ROTS confirming inferiority to the ancient sith spirit, who is below ajunta pall, which scales below Exar kun, Ajunta's own admission of a pre prime Jedi revan's power as "blinding"
Darth Gravid, a banite sith attempted to merge jedi ideologies with sith, but was driven insane, nearly tearing down the Rule of two. While Revan found balance, plageuis mused that such a thing was not possible. To claim Such ancient Jedi were inferior to Eeth koth or cin drallig is preposterous.
Exactly!! Thank u! U just put my entire mindset about Jedi Revan into words. Thought that was impossible honestly.
@Isidoro T
1) Drew is the creator of Revan/Kotor 1, his word is fact when it comes to KOTOR related things, the evidence really points to him being the strongest of his time, his portrayal as well, even Meetra's creator admitted to Revans superiority over her.
2) True, he does grow in power but his Feats are enough, and the fact there was futures where Revan(Novel) would of triumphed over Vitiate, balancing the force in its purest form. He's in vitiates league or just below it arguably, the same vitiate that consumed nathema, with a thousand years of growth, ontop of thousands of sith spirits consumed.
3) admitting the quote is fallible, invalidates it, Bane was at a time where the sith were at its lowest, There is too much contradiction, evidence to hold bane so high.
4)"...She doesn't have the strength to stop Vader. But Karness Muur does."
There is clear narrative portrayal, the comic's depiction, of an what if off sidious's defeat, is clear indication that Karness is superior at the time, enough to bridge the gap between him and what he knew of sidious's power.
Like bane's quote, most of these are contradicted, shown up in feats. Not mentioning the person whom wrote them, was before Kotor even existed. While I do have maul up there, Id say he is below the very strongest Force users, like Outlander/vaylin/Revan/Vitiate. Above Meetra/malgus, SF Malak would be debatable.
@@codesuzakugeass you cant debate against primary sources my guy lmfao. If it says Bane is the strongest up to that point, he just is. If it says Maul is the deadliest, he just is. If it says each successive generation of the rule of two get stronger then they just do lol. So yeah the scaling in the video is completely accurate lol. as bizarre as that might seem to you
@@ExtraVictory Primary sources with dozens of different writers, with different interpretations, scaling's. Things get outdated or simply do not make sense in the slightest. Unless you'd like to argue bane is stronger the Man whom took the spirits of all he killed, in his millennium and a half of existence, on top of Revan/outlander/Vaylin to finally put him down. This feat is portrayed with Dark empire Sidious at his very peak's defeat. Then claim kit fisto or Eeth koth is stronger.
Revan and the hero of Tython are up with Jaina and Jacen. They are just too powerful and this list caps them below Ahsoka tano.
I don't know how I feel about Qui-Gon,a person who could have easily been a Jedi master if not for his Free-thinking,being put on the same tier as eeth koth,ahoska and a Jedi lightsaber trainer. Surely Qui-gon is stronger in the force then all of those guys,and about equal in lightsaber combat. So how are they on the same tier?
Hes not stated to be, or shown to be. A power scale has to go off of what we see, not what we can guess.
he's about their level as qui gon in the force could not beat tpm maul and i know qui gon was nerfed but maul was also nerfed in the fight as he had a injury and it was stated anakin somehow amped qui gon as anakin was like a force nexus
There is one fact about Qui-Gon. He was killed by Maul. That’s also when Maul was the weakest in the whole franchise. Him being Ahsoka level according to what we saw is pretty generous. At least she wasn’t killed by even a stronger Maul.
@@arpadszabo661 ahsoka was being toyed with and also maul didn’t want to actually kill her but convert her
Absurd. Maul was at his strongest in TPM because he still had both his legs (i.e., more midichlorians). Further, Qui-gon was in his 60s in TPM using a highly force-intensive form, Ataru. Lastly, it is said in the TPM novelization, that Qui-gon's saber skills rivaled that of Mace Windu and they both fought to a standstill in their sparing matches.
Bro i swear this channel has everything i like, from bleach to star wars.
Love it.
Hello there
🥇
Well hello there yourself
General Kenobi
General Kari
W
I feel like common sense tells you that Old Ben/ Obiwan isn't 2 tiers above Yoda and Mace
Yea idk what could have possibly made him say that 😭😭
@@Heavenly_demon223 He fought a New hope Vader.
@@DarthKraytsolosCanon500 Mace beat sidious and yoda almost did too, obi wan keeps up with anakin/vader due to how well he knows him not because he rivals him in strength.
@@Heavenly_demon223 Sidious grew in strength did you not watch the video.
I only have one disagreement in the whole video, and it's that dooku wasn't going all out for most of the dooku vs anakin fight.
I always interpreted it as him trying to beat anakin without trying to impress the emperor, only for it to bite him in the ass when he lost the fight he treated as a sword duel instead of a battle to the death
Palpatine probably order Dooku to hold back (let's be honest Dooku was able to 1v1 against Yoda) to make Anakin Skywalker turn over to the Dark Side as they plan all that rescuing the Senate mission and Dooku probably agreed to throw the fight.
Only to get both his hands gets chopped away by Anakin and then he look over to his master to stop the fight only for Palpatine to say to Skywalker to finished him.
Dooku was going all out.
A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself "oh i get it, now" and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail.
...
Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste- the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.
Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.
-ROTS novel
@@omegasaiyanuchiha3426
He didn't. While he was at first trying to recruit Anakin, he showed genuine fear at both Anakin and Obi Wan's techniques, in his own monologue, he considered the situation to be quickly becoming terrifying. He was badly loosing against his solo fight against Anakin, resorted to psychologically undermining Anakin, which nerfed Anaking by making him self-conscious of his actions, only for Palpatine to give advice to Anakin on how to use the dark side, resulting in Anakin becoming even more powerful, and curb stomping Dooku. It was made very clear that Anakin using the dark side is way, way better of a duelist than Dooku.
@A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫𒈙𒐫A𒈙A𒈙I𒈙A𒈙T𒈙O𒈙Y𒈙O𒈙M𒈙A𒈙RMy quote from the book were Dooku's and Anakin's thoughts fighting each other after Obiwan was knocked out.
@A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫A𒈙𒐫𒈙𒐫A𒈙A𒈙I𒈙A𒈙T𒈙O𒈙Y𒈙O𒈙M𒈙A𒈙R yea... were just gonna have to agree to disagree. I like the movies but the pacing isn't great especialy in the prequels The books have time to explain things that are suggested/hinted at in the movies. Like how ppsychologically taxing force visions are. In the movie we see Anakin awake late at night and getting frustrated but the books adds to this with his pov chapters.
Also Anakin was stronger or at least had the potential but was untrained. Ep 1 when Qui-gon does the blood scan basically says so
Bruh I thought I was crazy. When you first uploaded i started watching and accidentally closed it and then couldn't find it again. Searched for a good 10 mins and questioned whether I was imagining it or not
Why do people keep pushing the lie that Palpatine beat Yoda?! It was clearly a draw and at one point palpatine was being over powered by Yoda when they were both using force lighting.
I find it interesting how Sidious had to use his environment to beat Yoda, while Yoda didn't
@@punkrider8758 right!!
Still beat him. Why shouldn’t he use the environment to his advantage? Why didn’t yoda?
@@DirtyBobBojangles cause Yoda was stronger by a little and sidious knew it
@@burlapjack1464 still won. He played smarter. Is intellect not a strength?
Been seeing you Seth when you had a small amount off subs and now happy to see you doing good and your hard work is paying off, by far some of my fav scaling vids of any kind
Its kinda neat that throughout the series... the force can empower or weaken people . Which explains a lot of "weird scenes" that seem pretty bad.
Looking at stuff like the Episode 3 fight with Palpatine and Mace... it now makes some sense. Cause spinning and yelling only to defeat 4 Jedi masters easily... looked off.
at least now I know the reasons why
Thats why qui gon says your focus determines your reality. If you have fear you will stumble, and with lightsabers and crazy force powers, a simple flinch or delayed reaction, will cost you and hand or 2.
I remember feeling like I went crazy when the first one showed up. I was looking for it later and was like "Did I imagine that" lol
YUHHH MORE SETH STAR WARS CONTENT 👑👑 ABSOLUTE W FOR ALL
There is no "Mortis amps" for Luke. It was stated in the series that only Anakin can defeat the Son and the Daughter, because he is the only Chosen One. Not Luke. As Lucas himself also said.
Full potential Anakin>>
Well the amp itself would amp anyone it only revealed how strong own is with the force on their own at peak
Meaning anakin only could beat the ones that one time with said amp given it unlocked his Full potential at that moment
If Luke has the same potential as anakin given such an amp would have like being on par with his father
Which George Lucas himself said anakin and Luke’s potential was equal
That Luke in the EU actually never reached his full power as never sought power for power sake and he was already stronger than 99% of everyone in Star Wars while holding back 24/7
Meaning luke never was truly tested in the EU till he meet abeloth, that his grand master status is not even close to his peak power
Even if you were to argue he isn’t on anakin’s level you would at least have to admit he was strong enough to beat abeloth in realm of shadows via destroying her force essence meaning a battle of who was truly more powerful happens on the spiritual level, that at least be putting him in the god Tier of Star Wars where unless you are a force entity or a fated chosen one from birth like anakin
No one else would beat luke if he were to be at his peak and knew every force power in the book
Well in the TCW series Luke didin't even exist yet so Anakin being the only one at the time doesn't exclude Luke.
Doesn't matter. Luke by the events of crucible is amped via Mortis and above Abeloth
Just rewatched the original trilogy today, good timing man love it.
20:29 I always took this "1000 years" statement as to point towards either the Ruusan War, the "Dual on Tython" which was Bane and Zannah vs Jedi Lord Valenthyne Farfalla, Jedi Battlemaster Raskta Lsu, Jedi Master Worror Dowmat, and Jedi Knights Sarro Xaj and Johun Othone, which was the biggest battle between Jedi and Sith since Ruusan (as far as we know) up to the Clone Wars Era, or Darth Bane vs Darth Zannah, all of these being roughly 900 something years before. "Curiously", there is a roughly 900 year time gap in Legends between Ruusan and like Qui-Gon's early years in terms of stories in that time period, so realistically those are the only battles that could be referred to.
27:00 I always understood it as that Luke would've never gone without Obi-Wan. But Obi-Wan knew that when they would've waited any longer, the troops of the Death Star would've found a way eventually to stop the Millenium Falcon and everyone inside it. So he sacrificed himself so Luke would go and survive. There was no way incapacitating or even defeating Vader in a fast manner.
This is very bold of you to do
I feel like you should have included Jedi Master Fay who was is so powerful with the Force that she literally achieved the very thing that all Sith try to get, True Immortality, to the point that despite being human-like she's centuries old by the time of the Clone Wars.
Whilst she was ultimately killed during the Clone Wars by Asajj Ventress her abilities showcased through the Force and accounts by multiple Jedi put her on par with some of the strongest Force users in all of Legends minus The Mortis Trio and Abeloth.
Its literally stated that despite sustaining mortal wounds from Ventress that she could just regenerate anyway and even survived Ventress crushing her heart earlier.
Its also stated that despite owning a lightsaber, Fay never used it a single time yet she roamed uncharted regions of the Galaxy and the Outer Rim and even fought Ventress without one.
But honestly, the biggest thing is the fact that she has True Immortality, the kind that lets her remain ageless in her prime and regenerate from basically anything so long as she has enough access to the Force.
She also can apparently transfer strength and other things through touch as shown when she gives Obi Wan enough strength to escape from a Separatist Factory that was about to blow up and when she first meets Obi Wan and senses he's in pain due to the events of the Clone Wars and quote 'Fills him with hope and energy' which can have several interpretations.
Honestly I agree with the entire list though just thought I'd mention this really weird outlier Jedi from the Clone Wars era that was probably stronger than even Anakin in the Force.
thats not strong tho, you just capped her at ventress level which is sub dooku/maul and early savage level
@@closegripbenchpress489 She was only killed by Ventress due to her having to save Obi Wans life, had she not been forced to do that she'd wreck Ventress which she already had done prior to this.
Ventress was only even able to harm Fay at all because she was protecting both herself and Obi Wan from being blown up in a Separatist Chemical Factory and Ventress caught her off guard because she had believed Ventress to be knocked out and was stabbed from behind.
Nowhere did I say she was Ventress level. You assuming that she is just because Ventress managed to land a hit is like saying that Captain Tarples of the Gungans is mid Clone Wars General Grievous level because he managed to land the blow that incapacitated him while he was being jumped by dozens of them.
@@fdwgalaxy7658 So her best feats are beating ventress, so nowhere near obiwan level.
No, there were many gungans fighting grievous and he does scale in durability since he tanked grievous a while.
No way bro I was literally just going through your old Star Wars content because I was fiending, gonna need a thing of popcorn for this one
Anakins force potential is technically stronger than Luke’s because his mediclorian count is like 4000 higher being 27000 while Luke’s is 23000. And yoda being 18000
So what? Rey's midi-chlorian count is over 1,000,000, is the true Chosen One, needed almost no training, and did things with the force no Jedi or Sith has done. Remember, the Force is Female 😊.
@@charzanboo9940 Not Legends
@@charzanboo9940 she isn’t the chosen one, George Lucas literally stated Anakin was the chosen one
@@charzanboo9940 cry about it
@@TribekaGaming George Lucas isn't in charge now. It's Kathleen Kennedy and the Force is Female. Luke is deceased and died a washed-up hasbeen. Rey killed Palpatine single-handedly while Luke needed his daddy to save him. Cry now 😂
This was awesome dude!
Really good video Seth, I enjoyed it a lot. The only big issue I find here is Qui-Gon's scaling. Using Maul to scale Qui-Gon is downplaying Qui-Gon in a way since he suffered from stamina issues naturally due to his saber form and age only made that worse. At the beginning of their fight, before Qui-Gon is fatigued, Maul says that he's more committed to that fight than any fight previous besides a fight against Sidious and that he believes the Force favors Qui-Gon. Maul never gets the upperhand because he has greater skill or power, only because Qui-Gon slows down.
To further enforce that Qui-Gon was past his prime Maul is not even considered Qui-Gon's greatest enemy by Obi-Wan post Ep. 1, Qui-Gon's fallen first apprentice Xanatos is. (Legends, Jedi Quest: Shadow Trap) Xanatos had unsurpassed mastery in his class as a student, is considered strong in the Dark side by Yoda himself, and could match Qui-Gon's ability in the Force as a PADAWAN. (Legends, Jedi Apprentice: The Dark Rival) Maul was basically a Sith Lord when he faced Qui-Gon yet still only matched Qui-Gon. And Qui-Gon was already suffering from stamina issues due to age against Xanatos, 12 years prior to his duel with Maul. He was far past his prime but still matching Maul and giving him the 2nd hardest fight of his life barring Sidious himself. And I know that other people in Star Wars generally don't face such issues with age, but Qui-Gon is explicitly stated to.
Qui-Gon also shares scaling with Mace through fights against Anoon Bondara, a duelist of "unparalleled skill" and "one of the best fighters and duel instructors in the Jedi Order", where both Mace and Qui-Gon are called "superior duelists" that "humbled" Bondara each time they fought, implying they are comparable. Maul is the one who killed Anoon Bondara, calling him a worthy adversary though not as good as himself. So the guy that Qui-Gon and Mace humbled was considered a worthy opponent to Maul, but admittedly less skilled.
Qui-Gon is "generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsman the Order had ever seen." (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) A statement that is quite comparable to Obi-Wan's RotS statement: "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee-four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced." Implying relativity once again. I believe Qui-Gon is the top of F tier minimum, probably the bottom of E tier.
Obi-Wan's scaling is also debatable as not only was Anakin nerfed from being emotionally conflicted and not even wanting to fight Obi-Wan on Mustafar, but Obi-Wan was implicitly amped. Multiple times in the RotS novelization he is described as "letting go", an action indicative of being temporarily amped by "oneness" and following this he has moments where he is described as being guided by the Force. On Mustafar Obi-Wan attempts to Force Push Anakin and Anakin is able to match it (Obi-Wan was the attacker and Anakin was defending as per the RotS screenplay), and Obi-Wan is stated to give ground with each attack from nerfed Anakin. Knowing that your force ability generally translates to your physical ability, and seeing as nerfed Anakin at least matched Obi-Wan's push, "base" RotS Obi-Wan certainly doesn't scale to base Anakin and I'd argue he doesn't even scale to nerfed Anakin. Though Obi-Wan regularly gets "oneness" amps so it might be fair to consider it as his own power/ability and if we do then RotS Obi-Wan probably lands somewhere in E-tier. If we do not then due to base Anakin fodderizing Cin Drallig in G-tier and Obi-Wan only having a slightly better showing before being amped, "base" RotS Obi-Wan lands somewhere in F-tier with the "oneness" amp bringing him up to E-tier.
As for how this effects Old Ben's scaling, if we stray from Legends then the statement about Vader being wrong could now refer to the "Kenobi" series in which Vader was once again emotionally conflicted and nerfed while Obi-Wan was amped. Meaning amped "Kenobi" Obi-Wan at most scales above nerfed Vader but probably not to base Vader as implied by Sidious saying Vader only lost because of his confliction. But Vader also said that "Kenobi" Obi-Wan's power had "returned" which could be used to scale base "Kenobi" Obi-Wan to E-tier matching amped RotS Obi-Wan, which would put amped "Kenobi" Obi-Wan in D-tier thanks to "oneness". Which actually kinda works with Starkiller's D-tier feats. It also kinda works with the established scaling of Old Ben in C-tier if we accept the statement about Vader being wrong meaning that Obi-Wan's power had truly not diminished since "Kenobi" (presumably). This would make base Old Ben D-tier and assuming he gets another "oneness" amp against nerfed "ANH" Vader, amped Old Ben could finally hit C-tier. And yes Vader is stated to be struggling to control his emotions in the ANH Novelization. But the thing I haven't mentioned about that statement saying "Vader was wrong", is that it has context.
In the "ANH" Novelization Vader states that Obi-Wan still has his skill but that his power is fading and Obi-Wan says that Vader only senses one part of the Force. Obi-Wan basically self-admits that his ability in the Force is waning in terms of using it outwardly. What Vader was wrong about was his assumption that Obi-Wan had ended his study of the Force. So what that statement is saying, is that Obi-Wan had continued learning *despite* his diminishing power. So this ends with base Old Ben being somewhere in E-tier with a possibility of F-tier plus "oneness" amps to reach E-tier if we assume the worst and say that Vader is saying Old Ben is weaker than base "Kenobi" Obi-Wan. And honestly that feels very good to me in terms of both scaling and narrative, base Old Ben maxed out relative to RotS Anakin, Yoda, Mace, and if we take my earlier scaling, Qui-Gon. And they all became Force Ghosts which is just another shared "feat"
TLDR: Obi-Wan- E-tier base, D-tier amped. Always gets amps while Anakin/Vader is always nerfed against him.
Old Ben- probably E-tier base, possibly F-tier "Vader was wrong" statement is used out of context.
Qui-Gon- top of F-tier minimum, low E-tier in my opinion. Was regularly suggested as being relative to Mace and was heavily nerfed against Maul.
Problem with qui gon is he scales to pre tpm mace windu who has no real scaling so this doesn't help qui gon at all and his placement should overall just be the same. I mean tcw maul thinks palpatine is the strongest force user he has seen and then mace can defeat palpatine now I know it was with vappad but even without vappad he is still stated the strongest jedi or equal to yoda many times so he should still be on that level so it kinda break the consistent scaling going on with mace yoda and palpatine being on their own tier while everyone else is below them.
@@Vader255 No scaling? Mace has no real growth between Ep 1 and Ep 3, he had already mastered Vapaad when the statements comparing him and Qui-Gon were made. Everyone is trying to reach that Mace/Dooku/Yoda tier up until Ep. 3. Also Mace didn’t beat Palpatine, in the Novelization’s Vapaad is stated to have allowed no more than a stalemate, impasse.
@@Nezxmi so i would argue mace did grow in power because dooku claims pre tpm when he was a jedi that he would smack mace in duels all time but then mace after tpm can fight a stronger dooku and fight stronger force users Mace then in rots is on par with anakin due to many statements and then anakin can stomp out dooku. I would also say due to mace fighting all these force users he is just getting stronger through fighting like other jedi. Mace fights many people like Grievous,Sora Bulq,Quin lan vos,Deppa Bilaba,Ventress,and others so these battles just made him grow in power.
@@Vader255 Dooku never claimed to smack Mace all the time but they have beaten each other with statements saying to beat Mace you had to be Yoda or Dooku, implying relativity between them all. Keep in mind Dooku is Mace’s elder by an entire 30 years.
And Anakin does not stomp out Dooku, only after getting a rage amp due to Obi-Wan getting rag-dolled does Anakin definitively overwhelm Dooku. So they are all relative. And yes Dooku got stronger as a Sith, but that power differential is made up for by Vapaad leaving Mace with the advantage due to Shatterpoint. Vapaad is why Mace can face Dooku or even Sidious and appear to have grown in power significantly, he is just in a more optimal situation. Everyone else mentioned naturally scales below Mace so those aren’t feats thats upscale him.
To introduce even more scaling for Qui-Gon, according to a Canon “Top 5 Red Lightsaber wielders” list ranks Ventress at 5, Tyrannus at 4, and Maul at 3. That’s right, Maul is canonically ranked above Dooku. That would scale Qui-Gon above Dooku, as Qui-Gon was explicitly matching Maul’s strikes and power. And this is consistent with Sidious being surprised and disappointed that he lost Maul while always considering Dooku to be a Pawn.
@@Nezxmi Oh i know those people don't upscale him the point is these force users get stronger through fighting and i was just listing some of the battles he has been in. Grievous was on par with mace in their fight. No so mace did not use vappad on dooku during their brief fight so he just fought dooku with just his base power so this shows he did increase in power. Here is the statement of dooku vs mace i was talking about “You were never able to defeat me at the Jedi Temple, and you won’t defeat me now.”
Source: The Clone Wars - Lightsaber Duels
But even if dooku and mace were around the same level as jedi that just means mace did indeed get stronger. Also qui gon only spars with mace not an all out duel so it can not be scaled.
That guide is contradicted by many other statements witch i wlll post below that say dooku is way more skilled than maul. Also the guide is most likely talking about prime maul not tpm maul and we know maul is becoming stronger and more skilled after his defeat by obi wan.
Here are the statements
More sophisticated, more calculating, and if anything deadlier than Maul, Count Dooku (a.k.a. Darth Tyranus) proved himself more than a match for the combined skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones.
Source: Panel-to-Panel Volume 1
Canon
"Count Dooku's fall has troubled us all," Obi-Wan acknowledged. "Now we have a great and powerful enemy." His thoughts turned to his battle with Dooku. He had never met such power in battle before. He had never come up against something that had completely overpowered him. Even meeting the Sith Lord who had killed Qui-Gon had not been the same.
Source: Legacy of the Jedi
At the risk of getting a slew of Maul-loving mail, the short answer is that Count Dooku is more skillful than Maul. Think of Maul as a bulldog of a Jedi-killer. He attacks at full speed, full tilt, holding nothing back. That approach has its merits, but it doesn't always apply. Dooku was much more restrained and sophisticated, and he had a much better grasp of Jedi techniques and tactics. Maul was an impressive flurry of fury, barely giving his opponent time to think. Dooku, on the other hand, countered Kenobi's moves almost effortlessly because he knew precisely where to block. This left Dooku with the energy to deliver the surprise blows when his opponent dropped his guard.
Source: Insider #69
Also people like sasse tinn can stalemate mace in their sparring sessions so i think its consistent these jedi hold back as sasse tinn gets bodied by palpatine and i know mace was amped by vappad but he was not amped in the fist part of the fight and can still deflect strikes
Mace as well to show he gets stronger he is stated below kar vastor but then in after some fights and then when he fights vastor he can fight an amped vastor while he is injured and maybe mentally nerfed as he is worried for deppa.
Seth puts so much effort in these videos we have to get him to 1 million soon
Anakin getting defeated by Obi Wan is not an anti feat. Obi Wan was the best user of form three, Soresu, according to Count Dooku. Form three is the perfect counter to Anakin's aggressive deuling style, form five. Also, unlike Anakin, Obi Wan wasn't conflicted.
And even then Obi wan was still getting his ribs crushed lol
@Isidoro T Obi Wan was way more mentally put together than Anakin.
@@lukemorgan6342 Exactly, but people down play Vader because he lost to Obi Wan.
Man, I love all your content. You really put in the work.
Mace defiantly won the fight against Sidious and he would probably would've won later on simply because of his style. Vaapad is a perfect counter against any Sith. Basically the stronger the Sith is in the force the stronger a Vaapad user becomes. Matchups play a big part in dueling. Yoda was definably stronger in the force but Mace was a better matchup which is why he won
Wrong, the Novelization clearly says that Vapaad allows Mace no more than a stalemate, that without finding Sidious' shatterpoint he is stuck at an impasse. And Anakin is Sidious' only shatterpoint, so Mace could literally never win.
@@Nezxmi where does it say anakin is Sidious shatter point?
@@speedy5423 Google
I watched the sith vid 3 hours ago... then you post this.
It was the will of the force
most people consider anakin yoda and mace to be the strongest MFs but theyre only in E tier. Really shows the power gap in star wars
Thanks for putting more out g money
I was waiting for a couple weeks
Yeah I always felt full potential Anakin could defeat legends Grand Master Luke. I know this topic is somewhat debatable but Anakin one way or another was concieved by the force itself even if it was being manipulated by the Sith. Luke being his son of course would have great potential as well but I feel also being the offspring of a non force sensative like Padme would have to dilute Luke's power at least somewhat
Dosent work like that. Having a non force sensitive parent dosent dillute your blood as seen in regsrds to Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker in legends
George stated that all skywalkers have the same potential and Luke reached anakins full potential in canon so full potential anakin vs grandmaster luke is basically a tie
No cause anakin lost an arm like only lost his hand therefore having more human parts in him
Good vid as usual 👍
this video just makes me depressed. Disney had all this to use and make proper good star wars content including Strong powerful women in the form of mara and jaina and they instead spat all over the fan base and made the most abyssmal garbage I've ever watched in my life. I'll never forgive them for what they did to luke either.
I love the video
nice video my dude very thorough
Seth: **doesn’t even mention Rey**
Rey: “this is outrageous, this is unfair!”
Actually rey never really gotten that *stronk*
She is in Disney, not Legends.
@@akatsukigajou1639 actually she’s the strongest Seth is just not using Disney canon
Ive been waiting for a video like this
Very clear someone was feeding Seth points from an echo chamber. Lot of missteps in this one.
Also it is hilarious seeing Seth having zero issue appealing to people like Kishimoto and Tite Kubo for intent on stream, yet when the canon literally has a hierarchy policy built in to give the author (Lucas) authority Seth is fine sidestepping it with no proper justification
Very disapointing.
I don’t know anything about Star Wars what did he sidestep? Just genuinely asking
I agree
@@solo8123 Idk much about post ROTJ legends stuff, but putting Qui-Gon, whose best feat is fighting 1 guy twice, being tired as hell after the first (he would've died there without the others rescuing them) and dying during the second, higher than the likes of Revan and the Hero of Tython is ridiculous. They both have ridiculous feats but just 1 for each is enough. The Hero of Tython invaded the Sith homeworld, fought through the Sith temple, almost reached the emperor but then turned back to save his friends, then went back and killed the emperor. Revan invaded the Star Forge, neg diffed the whole army while they were amped by Bastila's battle meditation, and that's pretty much a guaranteed win for one side 99% of the time, then killed Malak, who during their fight, restored his own health multiple times by draining the life out of captured Jedi while already being amped by the Star Forge itself.
Yeah... Qui-Gon is not doing any of that.
This was a terrible video on ranking, he says legends only yet includes Disney canon, he clearly has no real grip on the scales on this verse
@@arpadszabo661 Qui-Gon being exhausted after fighting Maul has more to do with the caliber of the enemy he's fighting than anything else.
Maul is no pushover. At the age of 7 his scream could could collapse entire buildings, by TPM he scaled massively above Darth Bane who in one of his weaker iterations could incinerate the entire surface of a planet with no issue. Jinn is stated to be Mauls near equal. That alone means he slaps 90% of this list. And that's not even touching his G-Canon scaling above Suit Vader.
IS NO ONE SAYING ANYTHING ABT THE AUDIO, I LOVE U SETH BUT GOD DAMN I THOUGHT WE WERE BACK W 2018 SETH FOR A MINUTE
OK so a few issues I have with your scaling :
-Assuming that Jedi Revan is weaker than fodder Jedi because he lost to Vitiate.
-Assuming that Vitiate is weaker than rule of 2 Sith despite feats indicating otherwise.
-Assuming that people who survived Nihilus are weaker than those who died to Grievous and Storm Troopers. Really? Nihilus isn't even a Sith. He is a gaping hole in the force created by the dark side after a planet's annihilation. A walking Dathomir. The very planet that modern Jedi are too afraid to approach.
But my main gripe is assuming that the Star Forge, the masterpiece of the Rakata empire, the very empire that inspired Sith technology and alchemy, and achieved what the Sith only dreamt of doing is something trivial.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For anyone who's never heard of the Rakatan infinite empire, here's a perspective :
-Darth Pleagis was considered strong in the dark side because he used it to create life. The infinite empire created every life form in the modern galaxy to use them as slaves.
-It took the rule of two eons to produce Sideous, a Sith strong enough to completely take over the galaxy. Yet his reign only lasted less than a century.
The infinite empire lasted for a little over 11000 years and were only exterminated by the Star forge.
-In various sources, we see Sideous trying to create strong dark side artifacts for his own use, that is considered peak Sith alchemy. The Rakata's entire technology was based on Sith Alchemy and required a strong connection to the force to use. Their most common weapon, the force saber was downgraded into modern lightsabers.
-Sidious' death star, that many people consider to be the reason of his loss, was created as a monument to the dark side. Something that will survive as Sidious' legacy after his death. The Star forge is beyond that. It can create anything by annihilating solar matter. A massive factory of the dark side.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Star forge didn't just destroy the Rakata, it took away their very ability to use the force and controlled them into killing each other.
Imagine something that can strip an entire empire of powerful dark siders from their connection to the force. How is that trivial?
TL:DR I can agree that rule of 2 Sith continuously get stronger and that Bane was the strongest Sith of his era (even dho there are counter statements), but there are exceptions to this rule like the Rakata and their Star Forge, Darth Vitiate post Ritual, Nihilus and Peak Revan.
Even assuming that every rule of 2 Sith is above ancient Sith is wrong, this only applies to the Master.
Sith apprentices are just dark siders who won't reach that peak until their master's death, let alone mere Sith assassins like Maul of Ventress. We're even using Storm Troopers and a piece of Junk like Grievous for scaling now?
It all comes down to Darth Bane's statements being really contradictory, Bane being >>> Vitiate and Exar Kun is laughable, at most he is relative to SF Malak, and weaker to Malgus, Prime Revan and fodder to Vitiate.
I watched it the first time and didn’t notice any errors, but I was cooking while watching.
Hello Seth, I (and many other people) would like you to accurately scale Kratos, and I say “Accurately” because In your last video about kratos you stated that GoW 4 Kratos is Slightly Weaker than GoW 3 Kratos when Cory Barlog himself has stated GoW 4 Kratos would Defeat GoW 3 Kratos *without question.*
Im also very interested in this video, and eagerly awaiting the next video about Kratos whenever that might be, keep up the great work!
Also, what did you Think about Obi Wan Kenobi?
Kratos in God of war 3 is also stated by another guy can't remember his name who works on the game to be stronger than god of war 4 kratos. Kratos gow 3 has more evidence to support he is stronger anyways
Old kratos vs young kratos isn’t that simple lol
@@Vader255 Cory Barlog is the Creator and Director of God of War 4, so his word is fact. And I don’t think everyone takes into account God of War 4 Kratos Holds Back the ENTIRE game and we see a glimpse of him not being able to control himself, and this is when modi ambushes them in Tyr’s temple. Atreus enters Spartan rage and Nearly dies, Then Kratos in his Rage, Basically One Shots Modi.
Seth was saying that the God of War Kratos that we play as, and performs all of the feats, is weaker than GoW 3 Kratos.
Not that GoW 4 Kratos at full power, is weaker than GoW 3 Kratos at full power.
@@Zoxxies so pretty much Bruno.M he is the lead animator of God of war 2018 and I'd say he has more say and the creative director has to actually report to the lead animator. Bruno pretty much says Hermes is faster than baldur and also says zeus slaps Baldur. Bladur is stronger than that God of war 4 kratos. Also Cory says he demolishes gow 3 kratos witch is vague and isn't specific. Also kratos in gow 4 loses all of his amps and abilities and equipment so he is way weaker than gow 3 kratos
Loved these starwars vids man
The return of the ranked video guess some errors with the video or some missing information
Awesome list, dude.
Vader not saying “you lose old master, I have the high ground” in the obiwan show ruined it for me (if you know the scene, you know 😂)
I REALLY expected it...was so disappointed. Awesome scene nonetheless
You should do a tier list ranking both the Disney canon Jedi/Sith at once
1. Keep in mind that due to padawan Obi-Wan constantly getting knocked out of the fight, that would throw Qui-Gon off guard. Not to mention he would have to make sure his padawan wouldn't die, against an opponent that neither have experience against like you said
2. Qui-Gon was old, and quickly tiring, we even see it earlier in the movie
3. Not only did Qui-Gon have the upper hand sometimes, he outright knocked Maul off of the platform they were on. If he didn't get lucky and land on another platform, Qui-Gon would've won the fight then and there. Luck saved Maul, just as it saved Kenobi in that fight
4. Force suppression like you stated, AND Maul bringing him to an area where it countered Qui-Gon's form and made it harder to fight. While already exhausted. Against an opponent he had no experience fighting. While making sure his padawan didn't die. And he almost won anyways, with luck saving his opponent.
Qui-Gon is a beast and honestly with that and him equaling Mace Windu in sparring, I'd put him on Dooku's level, maybe slightly higher.
That was a good laugh mate, thanks.
@@tekayro wdym?
@@theoldhermit2601 I wouldn't go that far it's still stated qui gon and obi wan are match for obi wan even without the circumstances so he's on the same tier as Tpm maul not dooku. Also in sparring these jedi hold back and pre tpm mace doesn't even really scale anywhere
Had me thinking I was watching a bobatalks video for a sec lol good video man
Seth is the 🐐 FIRST BTW!
In both of these videos you just listed them in chronological order. In AotC Mace openly states that their power has been diminishing, which contradicts the later = stonger idea. Truthfully both sides probably peaked around the end of the Old Republic/Bane era
I agree
Because the biggest issue is the rule of 2 doesn’t directly transfer power or stack on top of one another
If that was state case one sith can use essence transfer and live in many bodies up to the events of the prequels
The Jedi don’t actually get stronger during the 1000 year peace
And someone like yoda is probably the last of the very good Jedi since he was trying for 800 years straight
So even if it was in a time of peace yoda as more a reason to be powerful then all other Jedi
With someone like mace sidious could have easily killed if he wasn’t holding off for Anakin
Sidious js actully considered worse then dooku when it comes to lightsaber combat
And dooku can match yoda and beat every Jedi in a duel outside of yoda and rage amped anakin
It’s just a case Sidious is only powerful in the sense the Jedi thought they were already better so they slacked off when the sith kept improving
Even thinking they were extinct or that they were no match for them
Finally someone with reason, all the Luke bandwagons need to actually understand the lore, if abeloth is 12 times stronger than GM Luke, and Luke could only defeat her with the help of others while she was weakened, that just shows how strong Anakin was at that time, and how strong he could’ve become since he took out the son and daughter, who each alone were stronger than abeloth, no debate anymore
Crucible Luke = The Father = Mortis Anakin > Son > Daughter
He was amped by Mortis. Anyone could do that
Been a while. On a Star Wars binge. This works out quite well.
You are using both canon and legends here, and it doesn't make sense. You can't put them together, the powerscaling is different. Obi Wan is not stronger than Yoda, Mace and Anakin. And yes, full potential Anakin is the strongest. He was destined to replace the Father, a God.
Yes, that's the quickest way to insult Legends fans is that even though canon fans SEEM to want more of our shit in their continuity to sponge off of, _we_ want less of their shit in OUR universe. Force Dyad? Hell no.
Love the videos, keep up the good work!!
Luke doesn't have more potential than Anakin. It doesn't matter what random Disney/Legends writers are saying. Anakin is the child of the force and he was destined to replace the Father, a freaking God.
Amazing video
Love you Seth
I'm confused, is he saying that Obi-Wan is stronger then Mace Windu and Yoda???
He's saying that Ben from Episode 4 is stronger than Windu and Yoda
“I’m going to do this video focusing on only the main Jedi, okay starting first with Vodo Siosk Bass”
Great analysis, but i just have a tiny problem. In my opinion, i still believe that Abeloth is much more powerful than The Son and Daughter. One of the most important thing in Star Wars is that Force Users can sense each other's power, so even if Abeloth is supposedly weaker than them, they should still be able to think rationally and control their mother better. Maybe The Daughter would be afraid, but The Son would most likely try to calm her down since he has the biggest ego out of all of them. And as for the statement where it said that she's weaker than the Celestials, it could mean that it was comparing Abeloth's power to the The Ones as a whole, not them individually. My point is that Abeloth's whole narrative seems to imply that she's this Kaguya level enemy where only her superior Isshiki(or in this case The Father) can beat her, plus she got her Force ability from both the Font of Powers and Pool of Knowledge, kinda implies that she's above the level of them.
I think where she scales is entirely dependant on where you scale Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt in comparison to The Son and The Daughter since they were able to defeat her multiple times over a thousand year period.
@@fdwgalaxy7658 To be fair, she was imprisoned by The Son and Daughter at full power. Anakin defeated The Son and Daughter when they were focused on other people while also not taking the fight seriously due to it just being a test. Not trying to undermine Anakin's feat, it's just that what he did isn't like him soloing both of them in a real fight.
@@fred9515 I agree that is a fair point, I also forgot that leading up to the fight against Darth Krayt and Luke, Abeloth lost all her duplicates which was said to weaken her considerably.
I guess the real question lies in how you interpret the way the Font Of Power and the Pool Of Knowledge works when combined with someone.
Is it Font + Pool with no negatives? Is it Font + Pool but because Abeloth is Human there's a nerf of some kind that prevents her from utilizing the full power possible?
You could debate it many ways honestly with even the Madness she sustained after the Father, Son and Daughter abandoned her being either a permanent kind of amp or nerf.
I don't know enough about Force scaling to really offer a solid answer but its interesting to think about.
In the end Anakin should be on top regardless. Which he is, so whats the issue? Lmfao. Abeloth scaled to 12x grandmaster luke, and is also directly stated to be weaker than characters Anakin beat. Saying the statement refers to all of them combined is headcanon, and making some kind of kaguya parallel also isn't relevant lol. Abeloth isnt as strong as celestials. Thats literally just stated outright, and again it wouldnt even matter because Anakin would still be the strongest by lightyears lmao
@@ExtraVictory No, it isn't headcanon because like i said before, Force users can sense each other's powers so it makes no sense as to why The Son and Daughter would be so afraid if they're supposedly stronger than their mother. Also, that statement contradicts the fact that it takes BOTH The Son and Daughter working together to imprison her, yet it said that she's weaker than the Celestials? So no, the statement is probably referring to them as a whole, not individually. By the way, i'm not talking about Anakin here, why did you even bring him up?
Thanks Seth this was fun.
This is gonna be fun. Especially with it being legends
Seth you a goat for this vid 💪
When you said “yes there’s an I tier” I lost it
Yes I was waiting for this vid since your sith one
I completely agree with this list 5/5 🌟
Thank you for the content.
Scaling Ashoka above Revan is craaazy.
It’s crackhead level insanity
That was a great video a trip down memory lane of reading the comics. Now do the weakest to strongest characters in Star wars.
I agree with Clone Wars/ROTS Anakin would be in the same tier as Windu. He was incredibly powerful at the time.
Just want to say that I appreciate your work Seth