Wonderful summary, Joe. It is an extraordinarily complex narrative, with many subplots, but I have never heard it explained more clearly, and the different elements tied together more securely. Well done!
It was an excellent presentation, especially the very first half. There are problems with the Hani story as Joe presents. First, the story of a camel herder being asked to retrieve a store of weapons as found in the Chinese source. It is confirmed as Iyas, by Al Tabari. Also a contemporary poem dedicated to Iyas refers extensively to his love of camels. It was something he was proud of, being a camel breeder. Back to the Al Tabari story, Iyas is told to retrieve weapons which turn out to be in Hani's keeping. But is told if does so, he'd be made king. Iyas was made king in 602. That's a hole in the story. It is far too early. Hani far from being a courageous leader flees for his life from the battle of Dhi Qar. (This is clearly spelled out in Al Tabari, which undermines the case that he was the good guy.) So it is highly implausible that he held leadership after that: Dhi Qar was the end of whatever authority he had, not the beginning. Joe also in earlier videos presented these as brothers until I pointed out that they weren't even from the same tribe. So my assessment is that this is a flakey part of the story. The rest of the presentation is solid.
The part of Hormizd is NOT correct in my view, Too much North. BAKR AL wail tirbe. The OTHER Bakr were of course NOT in tthe Hejaz so where then ? ANSWER: IN CENTRAL Iraq.They are at the center of events. Events are taking place in the centre of Iraq.
Mel, where are you getting the idea from Tabari that Iyas is told he will be made king if he retrieves the armoury? Iyas is already ruler of Hira when Xosrow tells him to find out where the weapons are. Xosrow does not know where the weapons are and can not direct Iyas where to go. The Chinese story does not have anyone telling anyone to retrieve anything. You are mixing up the narratives. The Lion man in the Chinese source clearly tells his chosen one exactly where to go but Xosrow has no clue. These are clearly two very different situations. And the weapons don't just suddenly "turn out" to be in Hani's possession. Just like Joe says, it says very clearly that Numan gave Hani the armoury. That exactly matches the Lion man giving his chosen one have the armoury. It fits the template. As for Camel-herders, I am sure that almost all Arabs were Camel herders in those days. Its like Guinness and Irishmen. The two go hand in hand. And whoever set the dates has based it on nothing because Tabari gives no dates. Also you were not listening when Joe said that Hani got cold feet (nothing wrong with that) and was quickly replaced by Hanzalah. So you are really building a strawman. Come on, pull your socks up, you're slacking man!
Super amazing. Joe, we need much more information. Impossible to open us these treasures and review in 30 minutes. Dr. Jay, please, invite Joe for much more sittings. I (we) need much more detailed information. I appreciate all this effort with all my hear. My compliment Joe.
Most sources point to Iraq and stan regions of central Asia as a conglomeration of the Arabs armies. What is puzzling is how was this Arab identity transformed and transferred to the Hijaz.
I think I will do a livestream on this question today since a lot of people are asking about it and I am posting similar replies over and again. Although I think that the Abbasids were Persian Pagans, I think the religion that the Abbasids came up with was in the end quite Manichean because the Abbasid religion managed to divorce itself completely from the Bible by inventing the doctrine of Tahrif (abrogation of the Bible) which is absent from the Islamic Quran which the Abbasids really tried to undermine. I guess that the Quranic materials were just too popular for the Abbasids to be able to get rid of so their only option was to change their meanings through interpretation. My channel joins Luxenberg and Von-Sivers and Gunter Luling in trying to reverse that process. I think if the Abbasids had a choice they would have preferred to get rid of the Quranic materials altogether. I think that the Abbasids were Persian pagan Quraysh (which I think may have been intended to imply descent from the Achamenid Messiah Koreish) who had been placed in charge of the Hejaz and hence they promoted the idea that their religion began in that area. I think everyone knew that the Umayyads had a connection to the Umar-Muhammad character through Ruqayyah and so the Abbasids responded by inventing the idea that they were also Ishmaelites and that they were Hashemites and that Muhammad was actually part of their own family so I don't believe there is any truth in such self-aggrandizing claims. They were simply Pagans appointed by the Sassanids as rulers of Hejaz and they managed to get to a position of power and decided to work with the religious materials that they had at hand which they couldn't escape from in order to create a religion which would serve their purposes and was more appealing to them.
Hugely fascinating and largely completely unknown information to the general public. I hope it is compiled to a book and published. It is much deserved, and no one else has done so.
@@Bei-Abedan These days you can pretty much do that yourself. But get in touch with James Howard Kunstler and he might be able to help you. ( kunstler.com/about/ )
As-Saddiq in arabic probably means the same as ha-tsaddik in hebrew. The latter means "the righteous one" and is likely to be the springboard for calling the Caliphs "Rightly Guided." I don't know how you could have missed this obvious connection. Of course, the Sadducees would also have considered themselves to be righteous. That's the whole idea of being a reformer.
The problem with that hypothesis is that the cognate to הַצַדִּיק _ha-tsaddik_ in Hebrew is الصَّدِيق _aṣ-ṣadīq_ "friend," not "righteous one." The word which means "righteous" or "Orthodox" in Arabic is الرَّشِيد _ar-rašīd,_ which does not seem to have a cognate in Hebrew (I cannot find any Hebrew roots using רשד, though curiously רשת (reshet) means "net" or "network" and רשע (rasha') means "evil" or "criminal".
Sorry I was unable to contact you on the weekend joe. I had been busy with work last weekend but I am excited to hear from you with jay 😁 Jay I am a big fan of yours. You and tom holland inspired me to get into islamic textual criticism 5 or 6 years ago.
@@pfanderfilms Jay, this is the gentleman I told you about who made the Magharian = Magarite connection. It is not well known yet but is really going to be a paradigm-shifter.
Like this... fits in well with the continuation of the Sassanid coins with Arabic writing deep into what the SIN calls the Abbasid period. Some of these coins I have are up to150 years after "Muhammad's death" and they still have the profiles of Persian kings on the obverse and fire alters on the reverse.
An excellent video, Hormizd VI/Abu Bakr dying in 632 is very interesting indeed, I'm certainly looking forward to the next episode, is this going to cover Umar that Mel briefly talked about?
Unlike his wrong analysis in the previous video about the original place of the city of "Mecca", Joe got it right in this video about the battle of Dhi Qar and the name "Bakr".
Abu: Means "father of" in Arabic. This is commonly used with the name of one of the bearer's children (usually the eldest son) like Abu Ahmed. In some cases, the kunya is figurative, not referring to an actual child, as in the case of Abu Bakr when the person is very important to (or from) the Bakr tribe. Similarly, Galileo is considered the “Father of” Modern Science that is “Abu” the Modern Science.
Is that about the spliting of the moon in the Qur'an m ?can Joe or the aramaic theory man explain the chapter about the split of the moon in that context
MOSES,THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS AND THE TWO WITNESSES.NOBODY DISCUSS THIS TOPIC SO I JUST POST IT HERE. If the Jews managed to see their religious history in a bird's view,they will realize their Moses did more harm than good .Sure,the Jews of today are just a tiny portion of all the Israelites/Jews that have existed.If we count with all the Israelites and Jews that have ever existed,most of them mingeled with and got "consumed" by the cultures they met along the road.I think most people will prefere their children get assimilated instead of being hunted down as a plague. Jesus and the priests in the Temple agreed in one thing: DO TO OTHER TO HOW YOU WANT THEM TO DO YO YOU! All the ten commandments dwells in this commandment number elleven.As the Jews entered other countries and cultures,Moses's rigid sight on the world and the creation,put the Jews in a religious straightjacket which prevented them to DO TO OTHERS HOW YOU WANT THEM TO DO TO YOU! No, I don't whish to mock the Jews but this is the plain truth of the Jewish tragedies.The Jews views their tragedies from within and outside out,they became their own martyrs, here the Persian ruler allowed the Jews to conquer back their beloved Israel,and throws it all in the trash bin because they could not tolerate a Persian boss that woke up one morning and reslized he has become a God! Why did not the Jews just say to themselves that every now and then people turns mad and believe they are gods,let us bow down to this madman and praise our Jahve in our hearts,HE WILL UNDERSTAND AND BE PROUD OF HOW CLEVER WE ARE! Listen: what does a Jew do beside the time he talks to Jahve during prayer,COPULATES,WORKS,EAT,DRINKS AND GETS AHOLD OF HIS CHILDREN, like any other human being on Earth! How many percent of the Abrahamic religions's followers have drawn the IMPORTANT CONCLUSION THAT THE CREATOR IS FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE TO MOCK AND THROW DIRT ON,ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE WHO TURNS MAD BECAUSE THEY SEE JAHVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEIR NEIGHBOUR CULTURES!?Is it only God and a few radical freaks who understand that SIN is THE CREATOR'S OWN STANDARIZED TOOL ,GIVEN TO HUMANITY IN THE QUEST FOR THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!? We all know the law of action and reaction,it is both a physical law and a mental/ moral law,even the atoms obeys this law,AND THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS EMBRACING THE MERCY SEAT OF GOD HIMSELF!THEY ARE THE LAW OF ACTION AND REACTION,NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE,HATE AND LOVE,AND THE FORCES WHICH MAKES THE ATOMS UP AND RUNNING! Do you realize that the universe is tied up like in a straigt jacket BY THE LAW OF GOD'S HOLY TOOL,THE TWO CHERUBIMS!? Do you realize that NOT A SINGLE ATOM HAS EVER STOPPED TO OBEYE THE TWO CHERUBIMS!? IF THERE ARE ANGELS,SURE THEY KNOW ABOUT THE COSMIC LAW ACTION AND REACTION,AND BECAUSE THEIR MINDS ARE NOT CLOGGED WITH EARTLY DESIRES,IT IS THEIR ONLY DESIRE TO ACT AND LIVE ACCORDING TO GOD'S/CHERUBIM'S PLAN/ENVIRONMENT! Now we have proven that no beings/angels in heaven suffer from earthly "weaknesses", the heavenly beings have been heavenly in two possible ways:they are created there or they have worked their way up from first having spent one or more lives on Earth. Either way,their nature is such it is no room for falling back to earthly,lustfull habits. The Creator rules from behind/inside THE ATOMIC WALL,THE ALIENS HAVE LEARNED HOW TO ENTER THIS "HIDDEN" DIMENTION WHERE SPACE AND TIME DOES NOT EXIST,EVERYTHING THERE,THE PAST,PRESENT AND THE FUTURE IS JUST AN EVER LASTING NOW!FROM THIS DIMENTION DID AND STILL DO THE PSYCHIC PROPHETS GET THEIR INFORMATION THE TWO WITNESSES IN THE REVELATION ARE THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS WHO GOD HIMSELF TOLD MOSES ABOUT! THE LAW OF THESE WITNESSES RULES THE UNIVERSE,IT EXPRESSES ITSELF THROUGH EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE! JOHN DESCRIBED A TIME ON EARTH WHERE THE FORCE OF THE TWO WITNESSES/CHERUBIMS ALSO WILL MATERIALIZE IN A SPECIAL EVENT:THE BRINGING DOWN ON THE TWO WORLD TRADE TOWERS!THE GAPING MOUTHS OF THE TOWERS SPEWING FIRE,A TERRORIST ACTION WHICH ACTS ACCORDING TO WHAT JOHN SAW,THE FORCE THAT CONSUMES ANY ATTEMPT OF RESISTANCE !
Dr Jay i have no intention of being an expert or anything of the sort but in India the word "Dhi Qar" is used as a war cry by people who want to provoke others to conflict/fight...is there any connection between the Battle of "Dhi Qar" and the Hindi word "Dhi Qar" which is not a native word of india but was brought to india by the Arab Muslims. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dhi_Qar
@@Bei-Abedan Yes Absolutely...i can confirm you Dr Red that 50% of words in Hindi today is directly taken from Arab/Urdu due to islamic rulers ruling in india...which they brought from the levant and persia...
@@Bei-Abedan there are striking similarities in Hindi words with Arabic/persian names....for example...the word for prophet in Hindi/urdu is Nabi....the same word in Arabic is Nabi which was directly copied from Jewish word "Navi" for prophet.
@@Bei-Abedan another example...the word for sacrifice is "Qurbani" in hindi/urdu...the same is copied from Jewish word for "Korban" meaning sacrificial lamb or sort of...via the arabic language it came
I have been trying to verify anything that Joe has said by doing general searches even trying to find a list of kings or tachistan from books it is almost impossible or any historical records of Umar from say academia.com or any papers
Even where he uses Al Tabari, he distorts it to the point of outright fabrication. It would be better practice if he gave direct quotes and citations so people can assess if there is any truth to his claims. A lot of what he says is conjecture and a twisting of sources to breaking point.
When I watched your first video with Daniel, my immediate reaction was: There has to be a connection to the Ebionites. Those were the Messianic Jews who were fully Jews but believed that Jesus was the Messiah, that he died, was resurrected and would return at the end of days, but that he was only human, not divine. I was really proud of myself for that thought, but then had the sense to check it out. Turns out that already in the 19th century, some orientalists assumed that the Koran had its origin with Messianic Jews. I further checked the current state and found that Karl-Heinz Ohlig rejects a direct connection. Instead the Koran goes back to a very early form of Syrian Christianity which was very similar in terms of Theology, no doubt due to a shared origin, only that the Syrian Arabs never were Jews.
Yes, once the verses in the Quran are translated properly, it becomes clear that the liturgical material that was used as basis for the Quran did preach that Jesus was God, for instance: The first line is a Muslim translation, the second line is a corrected translation after considering the Syro-Aramaic origin of the foreign words and the pattern of transcription mistakes from Garshuni to Kufic: Q19:1 He said (Angel): "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, to announce to thee the gift of a pure son (Jesus)". He said (Angel): "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, to announce to thee the gift of a holy son (Jesus)". Which brings clear evidence that the Christians were not a sect that didn't believe Jesus was God. Q19:24 Then he called to her from beneath her: "Grieve not; thy Lord hath placed beneath thee a streamlet". Then he called to her immediately after her delivery: "Do not be sad, your Lord has made your delivery legitimate". When the translation is corrected, the original Christian text stands out and shows that the Christians believed Jesus was God, as the pregnancy was legitimate.
@@_John_P I think you have made too much of this. "Holy" is not the same thing as divine. Ordinary mortals can be holy, as can inanimate objects. Likewise, Muslims accept the virgin birth, but that does not necessarily imply divinity either. A Muslim would just say it was a sign that Isa was destined to be a great prophet.
@@michaels4255 In the second verse I published, the pregnancy is legitimate. I can't see how a virgin birth can have any other meaning except divinity, as every prophet was born through the natural ways, what's the point of a non-natural conception if it's just for producing yet another prophet?
First listening 3 points of clarification please: 1. In speaking about “messianic synagogues”. Would these have been “messianic” in reference to Jesus Christ or in a more generalised term seeking messianic figure(s) such as had been seen at Qumran? 2. “Sadducees” according to the “standard Christian narrative” we’re aristocratic temple/priests who controlled the sacrificial temple cult at Jerusalem and disappeared with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple cult after ad70. In what form and I what context could they have survived into the7th century within or alongside the developing rabbinical traditions of the diaspora communities. 3. I am much affected by something that was said to me by Archbishops mor gregarious (Syrian orthodox miaphysite ) and Paul Yazigi (Greek orthodox Chalcedonian) two great friends now among the saints who were kidnapped in Aleppo in 2013 and now sadly presumed dead. At an east/west symposium of Catholic/Orthodox leaders held at minster abbey in 2012 we were discussing Chalcedon and its unfortunate effects. They said to me “have you ever considered that when the church was at its weakest” (considering the Persian Roman conflict described here) that is when Islam swept out of Arabia (if indeed it did). The apostolic churches have yet to repair these wounds. Christianity has yet to learn that unless we treat the Jews as our elder brothers in faith “the first to hear the word of god and keep it” then the repercussions to Christianity will remain our ruin as joe describe here from the time of phocus (though that is not to laud the modern state of Israel)
@bazalgette blaster, You sound awfully syncretistic. At any rate, 100% of the ancients, so far as we can tell from the records and traditions that they left behind (Orthodox, Monophysites, and Jews alike) agreed that their theological positions were irreconcilable. Of course, we cosmopolitan moderns like to view ourselves as the morally enlightened ones and our spiritual forebearers as ethically benighted, but have you ever considered that it might be the other way around? You cannot always judge the morality of an act, decision, or policy by its consequence (called "Consequentialism), and especially not when the future consequences are either cloudy or utterly unknown.
It is very obvious to look at those narratives around the time -- Specially Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrian sources. What I am now wondering is it already in the domain of Islamic History taught around other than Islamic countries. I personally don't think that out of scholarly works specifically in Western Universities.
7:08 [ Matthew 12:11,12 ] 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. [ Luke 14:5'6 ] 5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? 6 And they could not answer him again to these things. those are two examples of where you are wrong ... and yes people can claim the bible says a lot of things but that doesn't make it true ..... there are times where men had more than one wife but that is not the standard. [ Matthew 19:5'6 ] 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. The Bible does not need to be corrected or supplemented by another book and I caution against anyone who claims you need another book as if the bible is not enough .
When he said "sadik" I immediately thought of the Turkish word "sadık" which means loyal and comes from the Arabic صادق. Is Joe certain that Sadik means Sadducee and not "The Loyal"?
@@Bei-Abedan Hi Joe, thanks for replying and thanks for all your fascinating research. Is it possible that As-Sidiq is coming from the word Tzadik but simply is another title unrelated to being a Saducee? Forgive me of asking out of my ignorance but I'm just curious if a word like "sadik" or "tzadik" could just refer to someone who is loyal or righteous.
@@Friedrichsen Yes it could, and that is what people have always thought yet it never brought any answers. But now I am presenting a different perspective which brings a lot of answers.
@mysotiras11 I'm not saying Turkish influenced anything. I just had the Turkish word come to mind because I speak Turkish and because the Turkish word comes from Arabic it's a relevant question.
@@Friedrichsen Merhaba, Dirk, sadık is used in Osmanlıca as well. All three meanings are related: a "friend" is "loyal" and "right" (gerecht) to do so.
Hello, very interesting because here we have sources of what happened in the all region. Persons, battles and interactions between divers sources. This gives us information about the technique movements and the vision of the géographie, the rise of an arabe state in Persia and Iraq today. The involvement of the Jews during this time which is completely absent from all the other analyses ! Very interesting. Thank you Joe, and thank you Dr. Jay Smith. I appreciate your work. Islam has to be showed in its nude et real history. No more a fabricated lies ! Thank you so much. Nevertheless, I would like to see the most ancient « Coran » which is the same that the Hafs. Is it from the 18th century ? After ? Thanks
it so amazing Dr.Jay and Joel we need to go forward since Islam have a great shortage of Historical analysis so just go head we have to investigate Islam inside out
14:19 literalist ???? please think this through . . . there must be a discernible method of sorting . Which verses can be taken literally or be considered true and why ? The Bible says there is a God ( Father , Son and Holy spirit ) and that God sent Jesus to die for our sins and be resurrected .... paying the debt for our sins .. When you start picking through the bible calling people literalist it sounds like there may be another motive . Do you believe God created the Earth , Sun , Moon , Stars , Fish , Fowl , Adam , Eve ( etc ) in six days and rested on the Sabbath ( seventh day ) ???? Does it have to come from another book and why ????
Traditional Judaism had that discernible method. History teaches us that without the Mishnah, the Bible has been misused and re-interpreted according to the whims of any charismatic "literalist" who has a big enough following.
@mysotiras11 there was a claim or statement made and I am commenting on that ..... it seems like the speaker was treating Christianity and Jews as if they were completely separate and had nothing in common .
@@Bei-Abedan Romans 11:16-36 KJVS For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy : and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. [22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? [35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? [36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Galatians 3:26-29 KJVS For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Very interesting. Good to know the Jewish perspective in this. Indian scholars make a point that people of ancient India were migrating into Asia Minor and beyond. Ahmadiyya scholars make the point that certain Jewish tribes migrated into North West India. Thus their theory that Jesus went to live with them after his ordeal on the cross which he survived. Mary also followed him. Ref 'Jesus in India' by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (Islam International, 2010). Perhaps Bala could examine/review.
The ancient greeks romans and egyptions certainly mention gymnosophists admiringly. And then there's the legend of St Jehosophat ( Buddha) and the mysterious Prester John in Africa etc. However Jesus in India is partly Gnostic derived. It's like the eastern version of the western "Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" propaganda, without the Da Vinci Code aminus, and another difference being the Indian legends are older and some say derived from lssa and lslam.( 1 motive) And also possibly a holy disciple named Joshua soon after Christ resurrected. I pray that Kashmir sees peace in my lifetime.
Amazing presentation. I am glad Red Judaism is gaining a wider audience. Did anyone catch the name of the scholar Joe referred to at 16:07? It sounded to me like Portia Ratti.
......And todays breaking news about the Catastrophic history of the foundations of Islam is... Amazing -stuff. Amazing site you have here. Truly mind boggling stuff. I'm truly so excited that salvation can now come to the Arabian Peninsula to those who can be persuaded, and this information disseminated to. And I have a plan to do just that. My family have had skin in the game. I've never heard of any of this or these geographical names but seems to have that strange 'ring of truth' about it in the context of all the other recent developments. Is it me, Am I just new to this, or, are things accelerating?? Seems that there is an acceleration of facts coming in.. Anyway, agree all the facts need to be double checked. Need to consider the sources. What did the Islamic 'Scholars' know and when did they un-know it?? if zilch, why? This is their history? Look forward to Jay's presentation of this new material--very good at aggregating and presenting facts and rendering it in useful phrasing, Etc. I don't know the Koran so not twigging the relevance of some it.
Why has noone ever made a video on Muqam e Ibrahim?, it would be a goldmine of evidence for Dr Jay Smith regarding the origins of Islam. Muqam e Ibrahim are Abrahams footprints embedded on the stone he levitated on when reconstructing the kaaba with his son Ishmail. Its located just by the kaaba in a golden brass case and is revered by Muslims (just like the blackstone). But if Abraham was nowhere near Mecca or the kaaba, whos footprints are they?
"Cup marks" in altar stones goes back futher than the neolithic, l think a lot of these (in reality impossible instant footprints) Buddhist or lslamic etc are hollows for sacred liquids, holy water like Xtianity, blood in sacrificial rites, .. a geologist would say the law of averages means that a natural indentation was found first and then the myth came later. (l used to collect hag stones as a child so you naturally notice how rocks wear over time thru seeing all the stages in one place)
The Mishnah correctly says in unison with the Tanaka that marriage is one male with one only female soul mate. The Torah makes rules for the instance of remarriage, forbidding the king to have more than one wife, and showing 14 year periods of penance for Sai to that faltered as to monogamy, even for extraordinary causes.
@@Bei-Abedan Yes. It never mentions, in the Law, anything about two wives at once. All it says is that if there was an earlier wife, (either deceased or divorced), one must care for her children as also for those of the later wife. Abraham was only the legitimate father to Isaac. After sleeping once with Hagar, as demanded by Sarah in her growing despair, 14 years passed till the Epiphany of the TRINITY to him recorded in Genesis 18. The concept of marriage was based on that of Adam and Eve, and for one to go beyond that was what the Law forbids the king to do, that is, he may not multiply wives. Jacob only wanted one wife while serving 7 years for her. To find he slept with Leah broke his mind, causing him to submit in a mental breakdown to Laban's dictates about polygamy, as not being his old self, and to not stand up to Laban treating him sub-human in every way. Before he had a son by Rachel, he stopped sleeping with any but Rachel, then fled Laban, then faced Esau. He went through years of purging that led to his righted marriage. No polygamist was saved on Noah's Ark. Not very many saints had ever been polygamists, and those few had to repent for years. David was a serial monogamist - it says he divorced all his wives after a narrative that shows him marrying a woman, having children by her, then not a child more by her, then marrying the next. He didn't divorce them at once, nor does it say whether or not they did something causing divorce. No one is blessed as a polygamist. The unity of true marriage reflects the unity of the TRINITY. Polygamy makes the heart fractured, and caused Solomon to forsake GOD and Wisdom for idols. Islam never resembled Judaism.
Not so easy, they did struggle with the lack of control over the Quran, which could have been the reason why they eventually introduced the concept of recitation, to make people memorise it so others would be more easily caught red-handed, but ultimately didn't work.
Hanzalah sounds like Hamza who was Prophets Muhammad uncle from the SIN and helped the prophet in the battle of Badr,also had a son Bakr .SIN says Hamza died in 625.
The Arsacid Parthians 247BC-224AD = Iranians = Aryans shared this latter name with the followers of Arius [318AD Presbyter of Baucalis nr. Alexandria Egypt - i.e. I am suggesting Aryans = Arians because their One God ideology excludes man from being God. Likewise, the Hebrew Pharisees also connected One God with Persian ideas - hence, it should come as no surprise that Islam continued Arianism and found fertile ground in Egypt, Persia etc because the native religions there are ignorant of the reality of TRANSFIGURATION. This is Christ Almighty's gift to mortals - i.e. - that they should become immortals via metamorphosis, apotheosis, theosis, deification ....
@@sylvainromain7884 I've written the largest illustrated volume since Leonardo, over 50+ years on TRANSFIGURATION in Christ Almighty. Without experience of THEOSIS = IMMORTALIZATION there's only heresy. Watch the BBC film on UA-cam called The Lost Genius.
I think the main reason why anti-jew hatred still exists...is because the Jews tend to be very "picky". As in very close knitted. Like its a boy's tree house that has a sign "no girlz allowed" kinda thing. It makes people kinda cringe at them. Of course Jews are cool, im a Christian myself. You are basically our brothers. They like COD, we like Battlefield. But its the way they act sometimes. So throughout history, they were seemed as "outsiders", hence why they are still hated. Which is a total shame, and i hate anti-jewish people. Ill stick up for a Jew any day of the week.
Great discussions. I am very much into history of the promised land and Middle East. But, Jay, and also Joe (im not sure if Joe is a believer of Yeshua as Messiah), can these findings have impact on our believe in Yeshua (Jesus)? The conflict in Israel is also to a certain extend between Rabbinic Jews and Messianic Jews. Saw a very informative video by Amir Tsarfati.
@@Perceptionista clearly Joe's pov regarding Islam interests me. His views regarding Jesus fall outside the realm of Judaism, as do those of so-called Messianic Jews. At the end of the day, both Islam and Christianity are supremacist in nature, both insistent that they alone have the key to salvation. You (both Islam and Christianity) don't get to represent 20% of humanity respectively without an impulse to dominate the world, whereas Judaism allows for many paths to God and does not claim exclusive rights to admission to heaven. The schisms in Christianity and Islam prove the point. We watch you goliaths rip each other apart. Small and humble is the way.
Shared this with an IDF soldier "AdinHaykin1". Hopefully they will find another (less "eye for an eye") way of dealing with extremists with your guidance.
The Himyarite region, located in present-day Yemen, experienced a rich and diverse religious landscape throughout its history. By the early 6th century, the period in question, several religions were practiced in the region: ### Religions in Himyarite Region 1. **Paganism**: - The early Himyarites practiced polytheism, worshipping a variety of local deities. This form of religion involved the veneration of gods and goddesses associated with natural elements and celestial bodies. 2. **Judaism**: - By the late 4th century and into the 5th and 6th centuries, Judaism had gained significant influence in the Himyarite Kingdom. The conversion of the ruling elite, including King Yusuf As'ar Yath'ar (Dhu Nuwas), to Judaism made it a prominent religion in the region. 3. **Christianity**: - Christianity had also established a foothold in South Arabia, particularly in Najran. Christian communities were present and active, and their persecution by Dhu Nuwas was a significant catalyst for the conflict with King Kaleb of Aksum. 4. **Zoroastrianism**: - Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Sassanian Empire (Iran), also had some influence due to trade and political interactions, although it was not as prevalent as Judaism or Christianity. ### Major Religion in the Early 6th Century During the early 6th century, Judaism was the major religion in the Himyarite Kingdom. The conversion of the Himyarite king and the ruling elite to Judaism played a significant role in this religious shift. The prominence of Judaism during this period is evidenced by: 1. **Dhu Nuwas's Reign**: - Dhu Nuwas, the Himyarite king, was a devout Jew. His rule is particularly noted for the aggressive promotion of Judaism and the persecution of Christians, which led to the intervention by King Kaleb of Aksum. 2. **Inscriptions and Archaeological Evidence**: - Numerous inscriptions from the period reference Jewish practices and beliefs, highlighting the presence and influence of Judaism in the Himyarite Kingdom. 3. **Contemporary Accounts**: - Historical texts from the Byzantine Empire and other Christian sources mention the Jewish faith of the Himyarite rulers and the persecution of Christian communities, providing further evidence of the dominance of Judaism during this period. ### References for Further Study 1. **Epigraphic Evidence**: - Inscriptions such as the Ry 508, which reference Jewish kings and their deeds, offer primary evidence of the religious dynamics in the Himyarite Kingdom. 2. **Historical Accounts**: - **Procopius of Caesarea**: *History of the Wars* details the conflict between Aksum and Himyar. - **John of Ephesus**: His *Ecclesiastical History* recounts the persecution of Christians by Dhu Nuwas. - **The Acts of Arethas**: A hagiographical text that provides insights into the martyrdom of Christians in Najran. 3. **Modern Historical Analysis**: - Bowersock, G.W. *The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars on the Eve of Islam*. Oxford University Press, 2013. - Robin, Christian J. "Himyar et Israël." *Arabia*, vol. 1, 2003, pp. 97-129. - Serjeant, R.B. "The Portuguese off the South Arabian Coast." Oxford University Press, 1963. In summary, by the early 6th century, Judaism had become the dominant religion in the Himyarite Kingdom, following the conversion of the ruling elite. This period was marked by religious conflict, particularly the persecution of Christians, which led to significant political and military interventions by neighboring states such as Aksum.
Chinese traveller visited Arabia and Parsia during 640-643 AD. As per Chinese Sources, king Muayiua was ruling Arabia and Parsia with the help of local Warlords of Arabia and Parsia.A prophet with Sward (. No name is mentioned) won in many battles with Sword given by God (Allah ) to him , his followers were ruling under leadership of king Muayiua.
Very very interesting how Nehemiah's Ma'amad refers to Jews Council. This is interesting bcos in another Dr. Jay's video Quran was compiled (of course this is much later in the late 8th century) by a council. Jews power creating a new religion that i've before but this is getting mementum. The story is a bit complicated but the idea Islam is a variant and heretic form of Orthodox Christianity made by either the Jews or heretic Jews is getting closer to the fact how Islam get started.
I once Saw and Arab movie about the battle of Dhi war , the arabs yell ya Manshur ya Muhammad , i don-t km now why they said that when they're not muslim
5:07 maybe I am misunderstanding what is being said or getting ahead of the conversation .... but ..... Jews and Christians are ultimately the same and the bible declares that ........ the disciples were preaching about Jesus starting in the book of ACTS ...... and the reason we have Jews today is sadly a rejection of Jesus which is the only thing separating Jews from Christians . There are lots of Christian denominations but there are one or more that keep or try to keep the sabbath and worship at church during the sabbath . . . there are some practices that were done away with after the resurrection of Jesus and many of the celebrations/holidays/sabbaths were fulfilled ..... except for the sabbath established of the seventh day after six days of creation as a memorial or way to remember God and His creation and to show who you worship . So the idea of Jews being converted to Christianity as if it were a bad thing or completely different is absurd ... now converting them by force is bad but they are not leaving one faith that is completely different from the one they are joining .
H Ash, sadly you are very mistaken. The reason we have Judaism today is because although the New Testament and Jesus and his disciples are appealing to Judaism, Christianity itself looks very pagan to us almost like it has taken everything that Jesus taught and turned it upside down and inside out. Also because Christianity has been responsible for the massacre of millions of Jews over the past 2000 years. So... no, we are not ultimately the same. I think you would benefit from trying to see thigs from the Jewish perspective some time. There are plenty of Jews who live as Jews in Jewish communities like me who love Jesus. We are called Jews for Jesus. We are not Messianic Jews who are people who say they are Jews but are not part of the Jewish community. We don't want to be converted, we want to be left alone to love and serve Jesus in our own very Jewish way. God bless you with understanding.
@@Bei-Abedan Pagan ? do you mean Catholics ?because Christians find the pagan also ..... and if you are referring to Catholics and Christians who misunderstand the bible ..... no Christians understanding the bible would not be slaughtering Jews ...... I have nothing against Jews and neither do plenty of other Christians . How is your worship of Jesus any different ? is there a video about this detailing the differences ?
That's you writing from a Christian viewpoint after simplifying Judaism to just what you mentioned, "their" viewpoint is much more complicated. Accepting that Jesus is God, is the Messiah, that he died for your sins, there's a second coming, no need for circumcision...those are individual issues that have to be addressed as well, as these Rabbis can tell in detail: Not the Messiah: ua-cam.com/video/YiFixVjwAYk/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/20Ee1W3Nfc0/v-deo.html (I recommend watching him at 2x speed. Jesus in the Talmud) -> ua-cam.com/video/jVr6ouBA-3Q/v-deo.html Objections to the new testament: ua-cam.com/video/A6gcwLuq95c/v-deo.html Rejection of the sacrifice: ua-cam.com/video/Fv9JRamAGIM/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/jB7EZ5fgr4I/v-deo.html the list goes on and on.
@@_John_P Jesus of Nazareth is not mentioned in the Talmud. His step-Nephew, Yeshu HaNotzri, is but not Jesus of Nazareth (except under the name Metatron).
Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert. So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam. After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa . These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs. Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia. Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history. Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand. Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were up by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC. This
Maybe Hormizd of Nisibis himself is not important but what is important is that there was already emerging a rival to Ctesiphon in the Northern part of what Sebeos refers to as Tachkastan. My advise is to hold back dismissing it until you have watched part 4
@@Bei-Abedan by the way i totally agree that something was brewing in the Jazeera, but i wouldl put if more to the south. Anyway i will wait for your part 4.
Who is he? Do you know someone who goes to a Muslim country, pretending to be a muslim., wearing muslim cloth and praying in the mosque with muslim to mis guided and convert the muslim into his religion. Can we believe in him?
@mysotiras11 l know, but as it's the wild conspiracy theory version so .... it's like going to the artic circle in a 3 piece suit and then changing into sealskins, and joining in the hunt, as you would, pragmatism.
@mysotiras11 lt's almost impossible to practice their 1001 petty strictures in the modern world, so the modern world must be blamed and not the "OCD" rules.
Karite Jews believe only in the Tenach. They do not believe in the oral Torah they do not believe that the oral Torah ever existed, that is the main difference between KariteJudaism and rabbinical Judaism. One of the main scholars within Karite Judaism is Nehemiah Gordan.
Tabari is a persian, if you Mean Ibnu Jarir , he also being stoned to the death by the awam Hambali the predecessor of salafi , tabari also the source for Aisha married the prophet Muhammad in 19 not 9 by comparing many hadith mentioned event and live of propeth's companion
with Abu Talib Muhammad and Ali I see pharisee karaites. also Sadiq and sadeeq are both rooted in truthfulness but the latter means friend given to Abu Bakr the historical figure meant to be Mohammads friend and first caliph. the former name was given to jaafer the 5th shiite imam. tsadik also where saducee originates from. this is interesting but I think this is from the lit up part of the empires. Islam comes from the darkness of a lesser known Arabia south of kufa. Islam puts them on the map.
Jews in exile started a new religion called: Islam. Jews who created the character of Moses , and wrote Torah and other books ( mostly in exile in Babylon and elsewhere ) are the real architect of Islam in the background of Arabia. That is why Muslim’s believe is that ;Islam is continuity of Judaism, with some adjustments. Jesus is sandwiched between Moses and Mohammad. Not a very happy place for Jesus to be. Jews took their revenge against Christianity by bringing Mohammad in play.
Islam was definitely not created by Jews. The Arabs wanted an identity for themselves and they had nothing to do with Judaism, so they borrowed from at least Christianism, paganism and Judaism.
@@_John_P and Red Judaism Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert. So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam. After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa . These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs. Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia. Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history. Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand. Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were brought by King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon 586BC.
@@Bei-Abedan Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert. So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam. After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa . These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs. Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia. Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history. Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand. Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were brought in Babylon by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC.
Interesting nonsense now ask the jew about the CANAANITES and the undeniable convection between them and the Israelites as far as religion goes Ask him about the the text of the canaanites said to predate the tanahk called the EUGARITIC TEXT and the similarities bound all over the jewish scriptures such as in the book of Psalms.82:1 ask Him about the reality of melchisedeck. The king and high priest of Canaan and there god EL also known as EL-YON the most high god who according go the eugaritic holds court over a council of lesser gods tefervzgsin ha k to Psalms.82:1 or why it is that Christians say Jesus is from the priesthood of melchisedeck and why he Jesus is ya the son sacrifice consistent doth the son of EL and how it connects go the city of GEZAR where thousands of the remains of baby boys were found commemorating the devfifice of the first born male sons yes tell them that though the Jews migrated from that paganism just Christianity I’d still firmly connected to it yes tell them M.R. Smith Oh seed of of slave traders tell them yes tell them if the rebuke of Jeremiah on the Israelites attachment to the paganism of the canaanites tell them that repenting from That paganism eliminates Christian atonement theology yes tell them oh seed of the slave owners whip
Wonderful summary, Joe. It is an extraordinarily complex narrative, with many subplots, but I have never heard it explained more clearly, and the different elements tied together more securely. Well done!
Yes, it's fascinating. I hope Jay keeps pressing him about his sources, as they were hard to identify at times.
I'm looking forward to part 2, when the topic of Umar will be addressed. This will be dynamite.
and Mu'aiyya and Abd Malik and Al Mansur.
@@pincheguey1325 how about Ali and Muawiyah war
Glad to see Dr Jay and Red in a Session
It was an excellent presentation, especially the very first half. There are problems with the Hani story as Joe presents. First, the story of a camel herder being asked to retrieve a store of weapons as found in the Chinese source. It is confirmed as Iyas, by Al Tabari. Also a contemporary poem dedicated to Iyas refers extensively to his love of camels. It was something he was proud of, being a camel breeder. Back to the Al Tabari story, Iyas is told to retrieve weapons which turn out to be in Hani's keeping. But is told if does so, he'd be made king. Iyas was made king in 602. That's a hole in the story. It is far too early. Hani far from being a courageous leader flees for his life from the battle of Dhi Qar. (This is clearly spelled out in Al Tabari, which undermines the case that he was the good guy.) So it is highly implausible that he held leadership after that: Dhi Qar was the end of whatever authority he had, not the beginning. Joe also in earlier videos presented these as brothers until I pointed out that they weren't even from the same tribe. So my assessment is that this is a flakey part of the story. The rest of the presentation is solid.
The part of Hormizd is NOT correct in my view, Too much North. BAKR AL wail tirbe. The OTHER Bakr were of course NOT in tthe Hejaz so where then ? ANSWER: IN CENTRAL Iraq.They are at the center of events. Events are taking place in the centre of Iraq.
Also Hormizd of Nisibis was made king by his troops in 630 AFTER the events and in the middle of the Pesrsian civil wars. Pure Persian thing..
He does seem to admit this part is a bit shaky. But great point. It adds a bit of reflection. Thanks.
@@lukasmakarios4998 Yes, fair point.
Mel, where are you getting the idea from Tabari that Iyas is told he will be made king if he retrieves the armoury? Iyas is already ruler of Hira when Xosrow tells him to find out where the weapons are. Xosrow does not know where the weapons are and can not direct Iyas where to go.
The Chinese story does not have anyone telling anyone to retrieve anything. You are mixing up the narratives. The Lion man in the Chinese source clearly tells his chosen one exactly where to go but Xosrow has no clue. These are clearly two very different situations.
And the weapons don't just suddenly "turn out" to be in Hani's possession. Just like Joe says, it says very clearly that Numan gave Hani the armoury. That exactly matches the Lion man giving his chosen one have the armoury. It fits the template.
As for Camel-herders, I am sure that almost all Arabs were Camel herders in those days. Its like Guinness and Irishmen. The two go hand in hand.
And whoever set the dates has based it on nothing because Tabari gives no dates.
Also you were not listening when Joe said that Hani got cold feet (nothing wrong with that) and was quickly replaced by Hanzalah. So you are really building a strawman.
Come on, pull your socks up, you're slacking man!
Super amazing. Joe, we need much more information. Impossible to open us these treasures and review in 30 minutes. Dr. Jay, please, invite Joe for much more sittings. I (we) need much more detailed information. I appreciate all this effort with all my hear. My compliment Joe.
Can hardly wait for part 2
Waiting for part -ll
Most sources point to Iraq and stan regions of central Asia as a conglomeration of the Arabs armies. What is puzzling is how was this Arab identity transformed and transferred to the Hijaz.
I think I will do a livestream on this question today since a lot of people are asking about it and I am posting similar replies over and again.
Although I think that the Abbasids were Persian Pagans, I think the religion that the Abbasids came up with was in the end quite Manichean because the Abbasid religion managed to divorce itself completely from the Bible by inventing the doctrine of Tahrif (abrogation of the Bible) which is absent from the Islamic Quran which the Abbasids really tried to undermine. I guess that the Quranic materials were just too popular for the Abbasids to be able to get rid of so their only option was to change their meanings through interpretation. My channel joins Luxenberg and Von-Sivers and Gunter Luling in trying to reverse that process. I think if the Abbasids had a choice they would have preferred to get rid of the Quranic materials altogether.
I think that the Abbasids were Persian pagan Quraysh (which I think may have been intended to imply descent from the Achamenid Messiah Koreish) who had been placed in charge of the Hejaz and hence they promoted the idea that their religion began in that area. I think everyone knew that the Umayyads had a connection to the Umar-Muhammad character through Ruqayyah and so the Abbasids responded by inventing the idea that they were also Ishmaelites and that they were Hashemites and that Muhammad was actually part of their own family so I don't believe there is any truth in such self-aggrandizing claims. They were simply Pagans appointed by the Sassanids as rulers of Hejaz and they managed to get to a position of power and decided to work with the religious materials that they had at hand which they couldn't escape from in order to create a religion which would serve their purposes and was more appealing to them.
Excellent. I don't have to listen to it now. I will have time later today. Thank you Red. God Bless.
Honest religious discussion. So Glad I'm alive to see this!
Hugely fascinating and largely completely unknown information to the general public. I hope it is compiled to a book and published. It is much deserved, and no one else has done so.
@@Bei-Abedan These days you can pretty much do that yourself. But get in touch with James Howard Kunstler and he might be able to help you. ( kunstler.com/about/ )
Grt Joe..GBU...awaiting for more insights
As-Saddiq in arabic probably means the same as ha-tsaddik in hebrew. The latter means "the righteous one" and is likely to be the springboard for calling the Caliphs "Rightly Guided." I don't know how you could have missed this obvious connection. Of course, the Sadducees would also have considered themselves to be righteous. That's the whole idea of being a reformer.
The problem with that hypothesis is that the cognate to הַצַדִּיק _ha-tsaddik_ in Hebrew is الصَّدِيق _aṣ-ṣadīq_ "friend," not "righteous one." The word which means "righteous" or "Orthodox" in Arabic is الرَّشِيد _ar-rašīd,_ which does not seem to have a cognate in Hebrew (I cannot find any Hebrew roots using רשד, though curiously רשת (reshet) means "net" or "network" and רשע (rasha') means "evil" or "criminal".
Sorry I was unable to contact you on the weekend joe. I had been busy with work last weekend but I am excited to hear from you with jay 😁
Jay I am a big fan of yours. You and tom holland inspired me to get into islamic textual criticism 5 or 6 years ago.
So glad to have you 'on board' as we can use good solid minds like yours!
@@pfanderfilms Jay, this is the gentleman I told you about who made the Magharian = Magarite connection. It is not well known yet but is really going to be a paradigm-shifter.
Like this... fits in well with the continuation of the Sassanid coins with Arabic writing deep into what the SIN calls the Abbasid period. Some of these coins I have are up to150 years after "Muhammad's death" and they still have the profiles of Persian kings on the obverse and fire alters on the reverse.
Love your channel learning so much over the years 🎈
C.o-w?
An excellent video, Hormizd VI/Abu Bakr dying in 632 is very interesting indeed, I'm certainly looking forward to the next episode, is this going to cover Umar that Mel briefly talked about?
RJ is incredible.
Thank you, Joe for your expertise! Impressive.
Unlike his wrong analysis in the previous video about the original place of the city of "Mecca", Joe got it right in this video about the battle of Dhi Qar and the name "Bakr".
Abu: Means "father of" in Arabic. This is commonly used with the name of one of the bearer's children (usually the eldest son) like Abu Ahmed. In some cases, the kunya is figurative, not referring to an actual child, as in the case of Abu Bakr when the person is very important to (or from) the Bakr tribe. Similarly, Galileo is considered the “Father of” Modern Science that is “Abu” the Modern Science.
And this Abu is evidently a cognate of the Aramaic word Abba that we are all familiar with from the New Testament.
Awesome, detailed, description by Mr.Joe.👍
Judging by your name you should subscribe to Red Judaism. You will probably love everything he teaches us.
Is that about the spliting of the moon in the Qur'an m ?can Joe or the aramaic theory man explain the chapter about the split of the moon in that context
MOSES,THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS AND THE TWO WITNESSES.NOBODY DISCUSS THIS TOPIC SO I JUST POST IT HERE.
If the Jews managed to see their religious history in a bird's view,they will realize their Moses did more harm than good .Sure,the Jews of today are just a tiny portion of all the Israelites/Jews that have existed.If we count with all the Israelites and Jews that have ever existed,most of them mingeled with and got "consumed" by the cultures they met along the road.I think most people will prefere their children get assimilated instead of being hunted down as a plague.
Jesus and the priests in the Temple agreed in one thing: DO TO OTHER TO HOW YOU WANT THEM TO DO YO YOU! All the ten commandments dwells in this commandment number elleven.As the Jews entered other countries and cultures,Moses's rigid sight on the world and the creation,put the Jews in a religious straightjacket which prevented them to DO TO OTHERS HOW YOU WANT THEM TO DO TO YOU!
No, I don't whish to mock the Jews but this is the plain truth of the Jewish tragedies.The Jews views their tragedies from within and outside out,they became their own martyrs, here the Persian ruler allowed the Jews to conquer back their beloved Israel,and throws it all in the trash bin because they could not tolerate a Persian boss that woke up one morning and reslized he has become a God!
Why did not the Jews just say to themselves that every now and then people turns mad and believe they are gods,let us bow down to this madman and praise our Jahve in our hearts,HE WILL UNDERSTAND AND BE PROUD OF HOW CLEVER WE ARE!
Listen: what does a Jew do beside the time he talks to Jahve during prayer,COPULATES,WORKS,EAT,DRINKS AND GETS AHOLD OF HIS CHILDREN, like any other human being on Earth!
How many percent of the Abrahamic religions's followers have drawn the IMPORTANT CONCLUSION THAT THE CREATOR IS FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE TO MOCK AND THROW DIRT ON,ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE WHO TURNS MAD BECAUSE THEY SEE JAHVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEIR NEIGHBOUR CULTURES!?Is it only God and a few radical freaks who understand that SIN is THE CREATOR'S OWN STANDARIZED TOOL ,GIVEN TO HUMANITY IN THE QUEST FOR THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!?
We all know the law of action and reaction,it is both a physical law and a mental/ moral law,even the atoms obeys this law,AND THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS EMBRACING THE MERCY SEAT OF GOD HIMSELF!THEY ARE THE LAW OF ACTION AND REACTION,NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE,HATE AND LOVE,AND THE FORCES WHICH MAKES THE ATOMS UP AND RUNNING!
Do you realize that the universe is tied up like in a straigt jacket BY THE LAW OF GOD'S HOLY TOOL,THE TWO CHERUBIMS!? Do you realize that NOT A SINGLE ATOM HAS EVER STOPPED TO OBEYE THE TWO CHERUBIMS!? IF THERE ARE ANGELS,SURE THEY KNOW ABOUT THE COSMIC LAW ACTION AND REACTION,AND BECAUSE THEIR MINDS ARE NOT CLOGGED WITH EARTLY DESIRES,IT IS THEIR ONLY DESIRE TO ACT AND LIVE ACCORDING TO GOD'S/CHERUBIM'S PLAN/ENVIRONMENT!
Now we have proven that no beings/angels in heaven suffer from earthly "weaknesses", the heavenly beings have been heavenly in two possible ways:they are created there or they have worked their way up from first having spent one or more lives on Earth. Either way,their nature is such it is no room for falling back to earthly,lustfull habits.
The Creator rules from behind/inside THE ATOMIC WALL,THE ALIENS HAVE LEARNED HOW TO ENTER THIS "HIDDEN" DIMENTION WHERE SPACE AND TIME DOES NOT EXIST,EVERYTHING THERE,THE PAST,PRESENT AND THE FUTURE IS JUST AN EVER LASTING NOW!FROM THIS DIMENTION DID AND STILL DO THE PSYCHIC PROPHETS GET THEIR INFORMATION
THE TWO WITNESSES IN THE REVELATION ARE THE TWO HOLY CHERUBIMS WHO GOD HIMSELF TOLD MOSES ABOUT! THE LAW OF THESE WITNESSES RULES THE UNIVERSE,IT EXPRESSES ITSELF THROUGH EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE!
JOHN DESCRIBED A TIME ON EARTH WHERE THE FORCE OF THE TWO WITNESSES/CHERUBIMS ALSO WILL MATERIALIZE IN A SPECIAL EVENT:THE BRINGING DOWN ON THE TWO WORLD TRADE TOWERS!THE GAPING MOUTHS OF THE TOWERS SPEWING FIRE,A TERRORIST ACTION WHICH ACTS ACCORDING TO WHAT JOHN SAW,THE FORCE THAT CONSUMES ANY ATTEMPT OF RESISTANCE !
Dr Jay i have no intention of being an expert or anything of the sort but in India the word "Dhi Qar" is used as a war cry by people who want to provoke others to conflict/fight...is there any connection between the Battle of "Dhi Qar" and the Hindi word "Dhi Qar" which is not a native word of india but was brought to india by the Arab Muslims.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dhi_Qar
Indicating that it was once a very important thing despite being belittled in subsequent Islamic history.
@@Bei-Abedan Yes Absolutely...i can confirm you Dr Red that 50% of words in Hindi today is directly taken from Arab/Urdu due to islamic rulers ruling in india...which they brought from the levant and persia...
@@Bei-Abedan there are striking similarities in Hindi words with Arabic/persian names....for example...the word for prophet in Hindi/urdu is Nabi....the same word in Arabic is Nabi which was directly copied from Jewish word "Navi" for prophet.
@@Bei-Abedan another example...the word for sacrifice is "Qurbani" in hindi/urdu...the same is copied from Jewish word for "Korban" meaning sacrificial lamb or sort of...via the arabic language it came
I have been trying to verify anything that Joe has said by doing general searches even trying to find a list of kings or tachistan from books it is almost impossible or any historical records of Umar from say academia.com or any papers
Even where he uses Al Tabari, he distorts it to the point of outright fabrication. It would be better practice if he gave direct quotes and citations so people can assess if there is any truth to his claims. A lot of what he says is conjecture and a twisting of sources to breaking point.
@@Speakers154 I agree 🙂, I just want to verify what he says 🙂
Gee the SIN is far from the truth, if this Quran was sent by Allah then I'm Donald duck...
Haha.
When I watched your first video with Daniel, my immediate reaction was: There has to be a connection to the Ebionites. Those were the Messianic Jews who were fully Jews but believed that Jesus was the Messiah, that he died, was resurrected and would return at the end of days, but that he was only human, not divine.
I was really proud of myself for that thought, but then had the sense to check it out. Turns out that already in the 19th century, some orientalists assumed that the Koran had its origin with Messianic Jews. I further checked the current state and found that Karl-Heinz Ohlig rejects a direct connection. Instead the Koran goes back to a very early form of Syrian Christianity which was very similar in terms of Theology, no doubt due to a shared origin, only that the Syrian Arabs never were Jews.
Yes, once the verses in the Quran are translated properly, it becomes clear that the liturgical material that was used as basis for the Quran did preach that Jesus was God, for instance:
The first line is a Muslim translation, the second line is a corrected translation after considering the Syro-Aramaic origin of the foreign words and the pattern of transcription mistakes from Garshuni to Kufic:
Q19:1
He said (Angel): "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, to announce to thee the gift of a pure son (Jesus)".
He said (Angel): "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, to announce to thee the gift of a holy son (Jesus)".
Which brings clear evidence that the Christians were not a sect that didn't believe Jesus was God.
Q19:24
Then he called to her from beneath her: "Grieve not; thy Lord hath placed beneath thee a streamlet".
Then he called to her immediately after her delivery: "Do not be sad, your Lord has made your delivery legitimate".
When the translation is corrected, the original Christian text stands out and shows that the Christians believed Jesus was God, as the pregnancy was legitimate.
@@_John_P I think you have made too much of this. "Holy" is not the same thing as divine. Ordinary mortals can be holy, as can inanimate objects. Likewise, Muslims accept the virgin birth, but that does not necessarily imply divinity either. A Muslim would just say it was a sign that Isa was destined to be a great prophet.
@@michaels4255 In the second verse I published, the pregnancy is legitimate. I can't see how a virgin birth can have any other meaning except divinity, as every prophet was born through the natural ways, what's the point of a non-natural conception if it's just for producing yet another prophet?
@@_John_P: agreed. Being the product of a virgin birth is a common thread in stories about divinities,
First listening 3 points of clarification please:
1. In speaking about “messianic synagogues”. Would these have been “messianic” in reference to Jesus Christ or in a more generalised term seeking messianic figure(s) such as had been seen at Qumran?
2. “Sadducees” according to the “standard Christian narrative” we’re aristocratic temple/priests who controlled the sacrificial temple cult at Jerusalem and disappeared with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple cult after ad70. In what form and I what context could they have survived into the7th century within or alongside the developing rabbinical traditions of the diaspora communities.
3. I am much affected by something that was said to me by Archbishops mor gregarious (Syrian orthodox miaphysite ) and Paul Yazigi (Greek orthodox Chalcedonian) two great friends now among the saints who were kidnapped in Aleppo in 2013 and now sadly presumed dead. At an east/west symposium of Catholic/Orthodox leaders held at minster abbey in 2012 we were discussing Chalcedon and its unfortunate effects. They said to me “have you ever considered that when the church was at its weakest” (considering the Persian Roman conflict described here) that is when Islam swept out of Arabia (if indeed it did). The apostolic churches have yet to repair these wounds. Christianity has yet to learn that unless we treat the Jews as our elder brothers in faith “the first to hear the word of god and keep it” then the repercussions to Christianity will remain our ruin as joe describe here from the time of phocus (though that is not to laud the modern state of Israel)
@bazalgette blaster, You sound awfully syncretistic. At any rate, 100% of the ancients, so far as we can tell from the records and traditions that they left behind (Orthodox, Monophysites, and Jews alike) agreed that their theological positions were irreconcilable. Of course, we cosmopolitan moderns like to view ourselves as the morally enlightened ones and our spiritual forebearers as ethically benighted, but have you ever considered that it might be the other way around? You cannot always judge the morality of an act, decision, or policy by its consequence (called "Consequentialism), and especially not when the future consequences are either cloudy or utterly unknown.
Number 1000 likes. God bless you and work.
It is very obvious to look at those narratives around the time -- Specially Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrian sources.
What I am now wondering is it already in the domain of Islamic History taught around other than Islamic countries.
I personally don't think that out of scholarly works specifically in Western Universities.
33:24
Jay's smile there was priceless
7:08 [ Matthew 12:11,12 ] 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
[ Luke 14:5'6 ] 5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? 6 And they could not answer him again to these things.
those are two examples of where you are wrong ... and yes people can claim the bible says a lot of things but that doesn't make it true ..... there are times where men had more than one wife but that is not the standard.
[ Matthew 19:5'6 ] 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
The Bible does not need to be corrected or supplemented by another book and I caution against anyone who claims you need another book as if the bible is not enough .
When he said "sadik" I immediately thought of the Turkish word "sadık" which means loyal and comes from the Arabic صادق. Is Joe certain that Sadik means Sadducee and not "The Loyal"?
@@Bei-Abedan Hi Joe, thanks for replying and thanks for all your fascinating research. Is it possible that As-Sidiq is coming from the word Tzadik but simply is another title unrelated to being a Saducee? Forgive me of asking out of my ignorance but I'm just curious if a word like "sadik" or "tzadik" could just refer to someone who is loyal or righteous.
@@Friedrichsen Yes it could, and that is what people have always thought yet it never brought any answers. But now I am presenting a different perspective which brings a lot of answers.
@mysotiras11 I'm not saying Turkish influenced anything. I just had the Turkish word come to mind because I speak Turkish and because the Turkish word comes from Arabic it's a relevant question.
@@Friedrichsen Merhaba, Dirk, sadık is used in Osmanlıca as well. All three meanings are related: a "friend" is "loyal" and "right" (gerecht) to do so.
Hello, very interesting because here we have sources of what happened in the all region. Persons, battles and interactions between divers sources. This gives us information about the technique movements and the vision of the géographie, the rise of an arabe state in Persia and Iraq today. The involvement of the Jews during this time which is completely absent from all the other analyses ! Very interesting. Thank you Joe, and thank you Dr. Jay Smith. I appreciate your work. Islam has to be showed in its nude et real history. No more a fabricated lies ! Thank you so much.
Nevertheless, I would like to see the most ancient « Coran » which is the same that the Hafs. Is it from the 18th century ? After ? Thanks
Great research Joe!!
Mr White a Kind reminder to Pls address the Chinese narrative that Mel had when in combination with Umar narrative or standalone viewpoint....Plss
A movie or a documentary should be made on the origins of Islam, using the evidence collected and compiled.
If so, then hopefully they would give me a credit.
@@Bei-Abedan Perhaps Dan Gibson could help.
8:00 Nehemiah is not present in any lists (Neusner, Brüll, Graetz) of Exilarchs in Iraq.
15:30 : Tabari and Dhu Qar. Dhu qar is a battle of the war of the Arabs vs the Persians since 602.
Great, more of this!
it so amazing Dr.Jay and Joel we need to go forward since Islam have a great shortage of Historical analysis so just go head we have to investigate Islam inside out
Sadducee sounds like Siddiq- the title of Abu Bakr
Where is Edessa?
Modern day Turkey
It is located at Sianurfa, turkey.
14:19 literalist ???? please think this through . . . there must be a discernible method of sorting . Which verses can be taken literally or be considered true and why ? The Bible says there is a God ( Father , Son and Holy spirit ) and that God sent Jesus to die for our sins and be resurrected .... paying the debt for our sins ..
When you start picking through the bible calling people literalist it sounds like there may be another motive .
Do you believe God created the Earth , Sun , Moon , Stars , Fish , Fowl , Adam , Eve ( etc ) in six days and rested on the Sabbath ( seventh day ) ???? Does it have to come from another book and why ????
Traditional Judaism had that discernible method. History teaches us that without the Mishnah, the Bible has been misused and re-interpreted according to the whims of any charismatic "literalist" who has a big enough following.
@@Bei-Abedan I gave scripture evidence on how he was wrong ..... and those verses are in the bible .
@mysotiras11 there was a claim or statement made and I am commenting on that ..... it seems like the speaker was treating Christianity and Jews as if they were completely separate and had nothing in common .
@@ashwilliams5843 I don't think you are going to find any Jew who would accept that Christianity is Jewish.
@@Bei-Abedan
Romans 11:16-36 KJVS
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy : and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
[29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
[30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
[34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
[35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
[36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Galatians 3:26-29 KJVS
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
incredible ... all third party sources that sort of slaps the SIN right in its face
Wow, look at how the Hormizd VI coin distorts the crucifix into the moon.
I think that the koran is a gnostic or possible ebionite poems and laws
You need to read Gunter Luling.
@@Bei-Abedan I Will read brother keep the work GBU
Sources !
Very interesting. Good to know the Jewish perspective in this. Indian scholars make a point that people of ancient India were migrating into Asia Minor and beyond. Ahmadiyya scholars make the point that certain Jewish tribes migrated into North West India. Thus their theory that Jesus went to live with them after his ordeal on the cross which he survived. Mary also followed him. Ref 'Jesus in India' by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (Islam International, 2010). Perhaps Bala could examine/review.
The ancient greeks romans and egyptions certainly mention gymnosophists admiringly. And then there's the legend of St Jehosophat ( Buddha) and the mysterious Prester John in Africa etc.
However Jesus in India is partly Gnostic derived.
It's like the eastern version of the western "Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" propaganda, without the Da Vinci Code aminus, and another difference being the Indian legends are older and some say derived from lssa and lslam.( 1 motive) And also possibly a holy disciple named Joshua soon after Christ resurrected.
I pray that Kashmir sees peace in my lifetime.
Amazing presentation. I am glad Red Judaism is gaining a wider audience. Did anyone catch the name of the scholar Joe referred to at 16:07? It sounded to me like Portia Ratti.
same question I had!
Parvaneh Pourshariati
@@elizabethsorenson8942Thank you!
......And todays breaking news about the Catastrophic history of the foundations of Islam is... Amazing -stuff. Amazing site you have here. Truly mind boggling stuff. I'm truly so excited that salvation can now come to the Arabian Peninsula to those who can be persuaded, and this information disseminated to. And I have a plan to do just that. My family have had skin in the game. I've never heard of any of this or these geographical names but seems to have that strange 'ring of truth' about it in the context of all the other recent developments. Is it me, Am I just new to this, or, are things accelerating?? Seems that there is an acceleration of facts coming in.. Anyway, agree all the facts need to be double checked. Need to consider the sources. What did the Islamic 'Scholars' know and when did they un-know it?? if zilch, why? This is their history? Look forward to Jay's presentation of this new material--very good at aggregating and presenting facts and rendering it in useful phrasing, Etc. I don't know the Koran so not twigging the relevance of some it.
Why has noone ever made a video on Muqam e Ibrahim?, it would be a goldmine of evidence for Dr Jay Smith regarding the origins of Islam.
Muqam e Ibrahim are Abrahams footprints embedded on the stone he levitated on when reconstructing the kaaba with his son Ishmail. Its located just by the kaaba in a golden brass case and is revered by Muslims (just like the blackstone).
But if Abraham was nowhere near Mecca or the kaaba, whos footprints are they?
"Cup marks" in altar stones goes back futher than the neolithic, l think a lot of these (in reality impossible instant footprints) Buddhist or lslamic etc are hollows for sacred liquids, holy water like Xtianity, blood in sacrificial rites, .. a geologist would say the law of averages means that a natural indentation was found first and then the myth came later.
(l used to collect hag stones as a child so you naturally notice how rocks wear over time thru seeing all the stages in one place)
Woww, decade of islam's destruction
The Mishnah correctly says in unison with the Tanaka that marriage is one male with one only female soul mate. The Torah makes rules for the instance of remarriage, forbidding the king to have more than one wife, and showing 14 year periods of penance for Sai to that faltered as to monogamy, even for extraordinary causes.
Yes, with the Mishna and Tanakh together leads to the conclusion that you should have only one wife.
@@Bei-Abedan
Yes. It never mentions, in the Law, anything about two wives at once. All it says is that if there was an earlier wife, (either deceased or divorced), one must care for her children as also for those of the later wife. Abraham was only the legitimate father to Isaac. After sleeping once with Hagar, as demanded by Sarah in her growing despair, 14 years passed till the Epiphany of the TRINITY to him recorded in Genesis 18. The concept of marriage was based on that of Adam and Eve, and for one to go beyond that was what the Law forbids the king to do, that is, he may not multiply wives. Jacob only wanted one wife while serving 7 years for her. To find he slept with Leah broke his mind, causing him to submit in a mental breakdown to Laban's dictates about polygamy, as not being his old self, and to not stand up to Laban treating him sub-human in every way. Before he had a son by Rachel, he stopped sleeping with any but Rachel, then fled Laban, then faced Esau. He went through years of purging that led to his righted marriage. No polygamist was saved on Noah's Ark. Not very many saints had ever been polygamists, and those few had to repent for years. David was a serial monogamist - it says he divorced all his wives after a narrative that shows him marrying a woman, having children by her, then not a child more by her, then marrying the next. He didn't divorce them at once, nor does it say whether or not they did something causing divorce. No one is blessed as a polygamist. The unity of true marriage reflects the unity of the TRINITY. Polygamy makes the heart fractured, and caused Solomon to forsake GOD and Wisdom for idols.
Islam never resembled Judaism.
Ultimate Result and Feelings are= PEACE.
is that means muhammad, abu bakr, and umar is the same person?
You can tell that from so many complex threads of history it would be easy to weave the Islamic carpet.
Not so easy, they did struggle with the lack of control over the Quran, which could have been the reason why they eventually introduced the concept of recitation, to make people memorise it so others would be more easily caught red-handed, but ultimately didn't work.
Wow so much evidence that Joe uncovered!
4:10 Phocas persecutes the Jews like all (more or less) his predecessors since Theodosius (d.395)
Surely not all Byzantine Emperors since Theodosius expelled the Jews from the land?
@@tiagorodrigues3730 Nope, different actions were taken, persuasion, menaces, etc. But all considered that the Jews had to be converted.
@@user-yz1dl3eu8l And yet the clergy continually warned them that the *time was not right* to force the conversion until the 7th century. Why is that?
@@Bei-Abedan Never heard of that specific stance of the clergy at that time. Maybe you can produce some sources about it?
I think the books were more cooked between the Rashidun and Umayyad dynasties rather than during the transition from the Umayyads to the Abbasids
Hanzalah sounds like Hamza who was Prophets Muhammad uncle from the SIN and helped the prophet in the battle of Badr,also had a son Bakr .SIN says Hamza died in 625.
excellent point
Interesting
The Arsacid Parthians 247BC-224AD = Iranians = Aryans shared this latter name with the followers of Arius [318AD Presbyter of Baucalis nr. Alexandria Egypt - i.e. I am suggesting Aryans = Arians because their One God ideology excludes man from being God. Likewise, the Hebrew Pharisees also connected One God with Persian ideas - hence, it should come as no surprise that Islam continued Arianism and found fertile ground in Egypt, Persia etc because the native religions there are ignorant of the reality of TRANSFIGURATION. This is Christ Almighty's gift to mortals - i.e. - that they should become immortals via metamorphosis, apotheosis, theosis, deification ....
Interesting point. Deserves further research.
@@sylvainromain7884 I've written the largest illustrated volume since Leonardo, over 50+ years on TRANSFIGURATION in Christ Almighty. Without experience of THEOSIS = IMMORTALIZATION there's only heresy. Watch the BBC film on UA-cam called The Lost Genius.
I think the main reason why anti-jew hatred still exists...is because the Jews tend to be very "picky". As in very close knitted. Like its a boy's tree house that has a sign "no girlz allowed" kinda thing. It makes people kinda cringe at them. Of course Jews are cool, im a Christian myself. You are basically our brothers. They like COD, we like Battlefield. But its the way they act sometimes. So throughout history, they were seemed as "outsiders", hence why they are still hated. Which is a total shame, and i hate anti-jewish people. Ill stick up for a Jew any day of the week.
very interesting
I was looking at the apocalypse of Baruch seems interesting.
Great discussions. I am very much into history of the promised land and Middle East. But, Jay, and also Joe (im not sure if Joe is a believer of Yeshua as Messiah), can these findings have impact on our believe in Yeshua (Jesus)? The conflict in Israel is also to a certain extend between Rabbinic Jews and Messianic Jews. Saw a very informative video by Amir Tsarfati.
@@Perceptionista no. Joe can make whatever claims he wishes. But he is a Christian.
@@Perceptionista i suggest looking at the Council of Nicea. Meanwhile, Joe believes in Jesus...ask him.
@@Perceptionista clearly Joe's pov regarding Islam interests me. His views regarding Jesus fall outside the realm of Judaism, as do those of so-called Messianic Jews. At the end of the day, both Islam and Christianity are supremacist in nature, both insistent that they alone have the key to salvation. You (both Islam and Christianity) don't get to represent 20% of humanity respectively without an impulse to dominate the world, whereas Judaism allows for many paths to God and does not claim exclusive rights to admission to heaven. The schisms in Christianity and Islam prove the point.
We watch you goliaths rip each other apart. Small and humble is the way.
I liked to know what Rabbi Stovia thinks of Red Jew.
Shared this with an IDF soldier "AdinHaykin1".
Hopefully they will find another (less "eye for an eye") way of dealing with extremists with your guidance.
A significant improvement in relations.
ua-cam.com/video/lNyIB5-GZGc/v-deo.html
13:20 : Yes ont the rebuilding try. No on the names you put (no sources).
Muhammad, the legend began outside Saudi Arabia.
The Himyarite region, located in present-day Yemen, experienced a rich and diverse religious landscape throughout its history. By the early 6th century, the period in question, several religions were practiced in the region:
### Religions in Himyarite Region
1. **Paganism**:
- The early Himyarites practiced polytheism, worshipping a variety of local deities. This form of religion involved the veneration of gods and goddesses associated with natural elements and celestial bodies.
2. **Judaism**:
- By the late 4th century and into the 5th and 6th centuries, Judaism had gained significant influence in the Himyarite Kingdom. The conversion of the ruling elite, including King Yusuf As'ar Yath'ar (Dhu Nuwas), to Judaism made it a prominent religion in the region.
3. **Christianity**:
- Christianity had also established a foothold in South Arabia, particularly in Najran. Christian communities were present and active, and their persecution by Dhu Nuwas was a significant catalyst for the conflict with King Kaleb of Aksum.
4. **Zoroastrianism**:
- Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Sassanian Empire (Iran), also had some influence due to trade and political interactions, although it was not as prevalent as Judaism or Christianity.
### Major Religion in the Early 6th Century
During the early 6th century, Judaism was the major religion in the Himyarite Kingdom. The conversion of the Himyarite king and the ruling elite to Judaism played a significant role in this religious shift. The prominence of Judaism during this period is evidenced by:
1. **Dhu Nuwas's Reign**:
- Dhu Nuwas, the Himyarite king, was a devout Jew. His rule is particularly noted for the aggressive promotion of Judaism and the persecution of Christians, which led to the intervention by King Kaleb of Aksum.
2. **Inscriptions and Archaeological Evidence**:
- Numerous inscriptions from the period reference Jewish practices and beliefs, highlighting the presence and influence of Judaism in the Himyarite Kingdom.
3. **Contemporary Accounts**:
- Historical texts from the Byzantine Empire and other Christian sources mention the Jewish faith of the Himyarite rulers and the persecution of Christian communities, providing further evidence of the dominance of Judaism during this period.
### References for Further Study
1. **Epigraphic Evidence**:
- Inscriptions such as the Ry 508, which reference Jewish kings and their deeds, offer primary evidence of the religious dynamics in the Himyarite Kingdom.
2. **Historical Accounts**:
- **Procopius of Caesarea**: *History of the Wars* details the conflict between Aksum and Himyar.
- **John of Ephesus**: His *Ecclesiastical History* recounts the persecution of Christians by Dhu Nuwas.
- **The Acts of Arethas**: A hagiographical text that provides insights into the martyrdom of Christians in Najran.
3. **Modern Historical Analysis**:
- Bowersock, G.W. *The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars on the Eve of Islam*. Oxford University Press, 2013.
- Robin, Christian J. "Himyar et Israël." *Arabia*, vol. 1, 2003, pp. 97-129.
- Serjeant, R.B. "The Portuguese off the South Arabian Coast." Oxford University Press, 1963.
In summary, by the early 6th century, Judaism had become the dominant religion in the Himyarite Kingdom, following the conversion of the ruling elite. This period was marked by religious conflict, particularly the persecution of Christians, which led to significant political and military interventions by neighboring states such as Aksum.
Wow, things started to fall in the right places.
Greeeeeat work thank you Joe thank you and God bless you both islam is done toasted finished hhhhhaaa
Chinese traveller visited Arabia and Parsia during 640-643 AD. As per Chinese Sources, king Muayiua was ruling Arabia and Parsia with the help of local Warlords of Arabia and Parsia.A prophet with Sward (. No name is mentioned) won in many battles with Sword given by God (Allah ) to him , his followers were ruling under leadership of king Muayiua.
Very very interesting how Nehemiah's Ma'amad refers to Jews Council. This is interesting bcos in another Dr. Jay's video Quran was compiled (of course this is much later in the late 8th century) by a council. Jews power creating a new religion that i've before but this is getting mementum. The story is a bit complicated but the idea Islam is a variant and heretic form of Orthodox Christianity made by either the Jews or heretic Jews is getting closer to the fact how Islam get started.
I once Saw and Arab movie about the battle of Dhi war , the arabs yell ya Manshur ya Muhammad , i don-t km now why they said that when they're not muslim
Good work, but you mentioned (9:18) persian are pagans which is not correct,
@mysotiras11 What is a Musperson?
5:07 maybe I am misunderstanding what is being said or getting ahead of the conversation .... but ..... Jews and Christians are ultimately the same and the bible declares that ........ the disciples were preaching about Jesus starting in the book of ACTS ...... and the reason we have Jews today is sadly a rejection of Jesus which is the only thing separating Jews from Christians .
There are lots of Christian denominations but there are one or more that keep or try to keep the sabbath and worship at church during the sabbath . . . there are some practices that were done away with after the resurrection of Jesus and many of the celebrations/holidays/sabbaths were fulfilled ..... except for the sabbath established of the seventh day after six days of creation as a memorial or way to remember God and His creation and to show who you worship .
So the idea of Jews being converted to Christianity as if it were a bad thing or completely different is absurd ... now converting them by force is bad but they are not leaving one faith that is completely different from the one they are joining .
H Ash, sadly you are very mistaken. The reason we have Judaism today is because although the New Testament and Jesus and his disciples are appealing to Judaism, Christianity itself looks very pagan to us almost like it has taken everything that Jesus taught and turned it upside down and inside out. Also because Christianity has been responsible for the massacre of millions of Jews over the past 2000 years. So... no, we are not ultimately the same. I think you would benefit from trying to see thigs from the Jewish perspective some time. There are plenty of Jews who live as Jews in Jewish communities like me who love Jesus. We are called Jews for Jesus. We are not Messianic Jews who are people who say they are Jews but are not part of the Jewish community. We don't want to be converted, we want to be left alone to love and serve Jesus in our own very Jewish way.
God bless you with understanding.
@@Bei-Abedan Pagan ? do you mean Catholics ?because Christians find the pagan also ..... and if you are referring to Catholics and Christians who misunderstand the bible ..... no Christians understanding the bible would not be slaughtering Jews ...... I have nothing against Jews and neither do plenty of other Christians .
How is your worship of Jesus any different ? is there a video about this detailing the differences ?
That's you writing from a Christian viewpoint after simplifying Judaism to just what you mentioned, "their" viewpoint is much more complicated. Accepting that Jesus is God, is the Messiah, that he died for your sins, there's a second coming, no need for circumcision...those are individual issues that have to be addressed as well, as these Rabbis can tell in detail:
Not the Messiah:
ua-cam.com/video/YiFixVjwAYk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/20Ee1W3Nfc0/v-deo.html
(I recommend watching him at 2x speed. Jesus in the Talmud) -> ua-cam.com/video/jVr6ouBA-3Q/v-deo.html
Objections to the new testament: ua-cam.com/video/A6gcwLuq95c/v-deo.html
Rejection of the sacrifice: ua-cam.com/video/Fv9JRamAGIM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/jB7EZ5fgr4I/v-deo.html
the list goes on and on.
@@_John_P Jesus of Nazareth is not mentioned in the Talmud. His step-Nephew, Yeshu HaNotzri, is but not Jesus of Nazareth (except under the name Metatron).
@@ashwilliams5843 God bless you. Yes it is quite different. But it will take years to explain in detail.
Why don't you invite some qualified academicians to comment on these claims and verify them if they're really true?
Most academics are afraid to challenge the SIN.
@@fantasia55 Yes, academics have seats to defend at their universities, no way are they going to jeopardise that for anything.
@@fantasia55
If we won't trust academicians to settle such issues who's help should we seek? Cab drivers?
@@13bm90 Academics are afraid of losing their jobs and perhaps their lives for challenging the Standard Islamic Narrative.
@@fantasia55
Do you have reliable proof for this claim or are you just speculating?
Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert.
So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam.
After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa .
These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs.
Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia.
Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history.
Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand.
Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were up by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC. This
Actually Mishnah allow man to marrie four wives like Islam
sources: Mishnah Ketubot 10:5, Mishnah Yevamot 4:11, Mishnah Yevamot 11:3
I think that you have to look at kurdish hystorie because i think that you will find a big connection there
tell us more, please
Correct except Hormizd of Nisibis. TOO much North. Bakr al whails . The OTHER Bakrs were NOT in the HEJAZ but in central Iraq.
Maybe Hormizd of Nisibis himself is not important but what is important is that there was already emerging a rival to Ctesiphon in the Northern part of what Sebeos refers to as Tachkastan. My advise is to hold back dismissing it until you have watched part 4
@@Bei-Abedan i will.
@@Bei-Abedan by the way i totally agree that something was brewing in the Jazeera, but i wouldl put if more to the south. Anyway i will wait for your part 4.
Waw what a very rich history
Great summary by Joe. The battle of Dhi Qar is very much ignored by SIN
We found Abu in the end 😂😂😂😂
Who is he?
Do you know someone who goes to a Muslim country, pretending to be a muslim., wearing muslim cloth and praying in the mosque with muslim to mis guided and convert the muslim into his religion.
Can we believe in him?
@mysotiras11 l know, but as it's the wild conspiracy theory version so .... it's like going to the artic circle in a 3 piece suit and then changing into sealskins, and joining in the hunt, as you would, pragmatism.
@mysotiras11 lt's almost impossible to practice their 1001 petty strictures in the modern world, so the modern world must be blamed and not the "OCD" rules.
Karite Jews believe only in the Tenach. They do not believe in the oral Torah they do not believe that the oral Torah ever existed, that is the main difference between KariteJudaism and rabbinical Judaism. One of the main scholars within Karite Judaism is Nehemiah Gordan.
That is why they have fundamentalist attitudes.
Karaites and Sadducees are basically the same thing. Ask Nehemiah Gordon!
Watch out, he'll accuse you of anti-Shlemibism
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣👍
Umar might have thought was second coming of Christ orvdome of his own did!
Tabari is a persian, if you Mean Ibnu Jarir , he also being stoned to the death by the awam Hambali the predecessor of salafi , tabari also the source for Aisha married the prophet Muhammad in 19 not 9 by comparing many hadith mentioned event and live of propeth's companion
with Abu Talib Muhammad and Ali I see pharisee karaites. also Sadiq and sadeeq are both rooted in truthfulness but the latter means friend given to Abu Bakr the historical figure meant to be Mohammads friend and first caliph. the former name was given to jaafer the 5th shiite imam. tsadik also where saducee originates from. this is interesting but I think this is from the lit up part of the empires. Islam comes from the darkness of a lesser known Arabia south of kufa. Islam puts them on the map.
Umar historical Muhammed proto texts over time final Koran and traditions changed that proto to Islam Wrong Man and wrong book!
حد يترجم لنا
There's also a theory that islam was created by catholicism, meh
That will be discussed in part 2
That's an idiotic theory.
Jews in exile started a new religion called: Islam.
Jews who created the character of Moses , and wrote Torah and other books ( mostly in exile in Babylon and elsewhere ) are the real architect of Islam in the background of Arabia.
That is why Muslim’s believe is that ;Islam is continuity of Judaism, with some adjustments.
Jesus is sandwiched between Moses and Mohammad. Not a very happy place for Jesus to be.
Jews took their revenge against Christianity by bringing Mohammad in play.
Islam was definitely not created by Jews. The Arabs wanted an identity for themselves and they had nothing to do with Judaism, so they borrowed from at least Christianism, paganism and Judaism.
The new religion we call Islam was created by the Abbasids in the latter half of the 9th century.
@@Bei-Abedan Which are not Jews.
@@_John_P
and Red Judaism
Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert.
So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam.
After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa .
These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs.
Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia.
Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history.
Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand.
Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were brought by King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon 586BC.
@@Bei-Abedan
Even before Abbasids who created Islam, according to you, the sons of Ismail ( Again Jew stories of Abraham ) existed in Arabia. Josephus also mentioned Ismailiets living in Arabian desert.
So, you can’t say that the rituals of Jews just came from no where, and gave birth to Islam.
After the destruction of first temple in 586 BC, Jews were taken hostage ( especially the elite class and priests) and settled near Kufa .
These Jews started the branch of Ismailiets , just to build bond between them and local Arabs.
Otherwise, why Arabs call themselves sons of Ismail, and believe that Abraham came to Arabia.
Arabs were isolated from rest of the world through out the history.
Never in the past desert Arabia was invaded by any Empire of the past. Because, there was nothing to loot and plunder other than the sand.
Empires of past left Arabs alone, who were living in cocoon, till Jews were brought in Babylon by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC.
*Some* Jews consider Karaites as Jews. It is far from a settled question.
Interesting nonsense now ask the jew about the CANAANITES and the undeniable convection between them and the Israelites as far as religion goes Ask him about the the text of the canaanites said to predate the tanahk called the EUGARITIC TEXT and the similarities bound all over the jewish scriptures such as in the book of Psalms.82:1 ask
Him about the reality of melchisedeck. The king and high priest of Canaan and there god EL also known as EL-YON the most high god who according go the eugaritic holds court over a council of lesser gods tefervzgsin ha k to Psalms.82:1 or why it is that Christians say Jesus is from the priesthood of melchisedeck and why he Jesus is ya the son sacrifice consistent doth the son of EL and how it connects go the city of GEZAR where thousands of the remains of baby boys were found commemorating the devfifice of the first born male sons yes tell them that though the Jews migrated from that paganism just Christianity I’d still firmly connected to it yes tell them M.R. Smith Oh seed of of slave traders tell them yes tell them if the rebuke of Jeremiah on the Israelites attachment to the paganism of the canaanites tell them that repenting from
That paganism eliminates Christian atonement theology yes tell them oh seed of the slave owners whip
Don't hate Judaism.
@@Bei-Abedan don’t hate Islam