Dust Collector Update & RODE WIGO Charging Station (Random Shop Stuff 24)
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- Опубліковано 3 вер 2020
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I got asked to give an update about the dust collector that I've built a few years ago and show how it's holding up.
Also I made a charging station for my RODE WIGO microphone. I also explain the design process of making it.
Video links mentioned:
Big Dust collector: • Broken Blower and quic...
Small Dust collector: • Introduction + Wooden ...
Bandsaw pulley: • 3D-printed Pulley for ...
Link to the Thingiverse file:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:458...
Enjoy the video! - Навчання та стиль
Regarding a possible video about a new impeller, I vote yes.
Like to see that too.
What i also would like to se is if you include a factory made version (plastic/metal), in the comparison.
Not that i do not see the fun in making your own the comparison would still be interesting.
Marius: Makes amazing charging station for his Røde mics.
Røde: 1 year later, comes out with an identical charging station.
Thanks for the update on the dust collectors. Obviously well engineered and made. They will be in service for many years to come. I love the mic charging station. Amazing how you designed and made them. The band saw project is finally put to bed. Time to move on to another project. We eagerly await for it. :o)
9:13 The pose tells us exactly what was in your head
Marius, great proof that your dust collector designs work extremely well.
Thanks
Wow. Your post this time is fully packed. Lots of ideas for us to see. Thank you.
All great to see - especially your charging dock! Good job.
Thank you for verbalizing your design process. I found it very useful.
My friend, your ability to express your thoughts and ideas, explaining the intended functionality and unwanted outcomes, and hopes and concepts based on your experiences are absolutely incredible. Thank you for the work you do and the additional time you take to share it with the world... cheers!
Great video. I especially liked your discussion of the prototype stages in your design process.
I always appreciate the fact that you show and assume your mistakes. It's very relatable :)
I like how you took a video about general maintenance and cleaning and turned it into something interesting to watch. You broke down your systems and made content that is worth the time to watch. Great video!
this makes me want to make the dust collector now. Always great to see how something works over time
Just received my Rode WIGO yesterday and really looking forward to trying it out... I'll keep that charging station idea in mind, thanks!
That charging station is really cool. Super compact.
Thanks for the great technical dialog about your design process.... very much appreciated. Also, your discussion about how Germany handles trash is very interesting as well. Here in the US our garbage is *mishandled* much differently. Please tell us about your current studies at school.
Its just amazing how much u can do in such a small shop!!!
Always a great & informative video Marius. Thanks, again, for sharing....
Nice video. Good to get updates. Mahalo for sharing! : )
At the art academy where I work we have a machine that compresses the wooddust into circular packets like hockey pucks. Really awesome to see.
Marius - For the band saw cooling .... simply add a motor housing and a cooling fan - you could probably just put a dust port on it and use the big blower to suck air over the motor - this gives you the option to use auxiliary cooling, or just the built in fan. No need for new pulleys
To solve the issue of the bag deflecting in the dust bin, you can insert an open ended cylinder inside the bag that holds it to the outer wall of the bin. Mine is just made of a sheet of puck board riveted into a cylinder shape. You then slide the cylinder out of the bag before throwing it away. This, however works better in a cylindrical bin and not a square one.
The whole trash can explanation was really interesting. We dont have anything like that here in California
Always enjoy your videos...thanks
Very interested in a performance comparison of impellers with different number of vanes. Hope you do that video.
I regularly run my 1750 rpm motors (lathe, drill press, milling machine) at twice that using a VFD and never had a problem. They would much rather run fast than slow. Another bonus is you don't have to deal with the lack of torque that comes with running at low frequencies. So a low gear ratio coupled with high frequency results in high torque and decent top speeds.
I really enjoy your videos and commentary. One thought about fins in the blower; as you probably know, some computer fans use a variation in spacing to reduce resonance and maybe break up the frequency. That might be an interesting factor to investigate.
When the dustbin is 100% airtight you can use a dustbag inside.
I have a metal bin with a bag and that works perfect.
Just put a fee pieces of scrap wood on the bottom for weight.
You can epoxy the osb to make it airtight or use PU
Also, the dust collection system will only operate at it's maximum possible efficiency when the bottom section is completely airtight, so this should be done anyway.
Alternatively, or additionally, he can provide bypass air to help balance the air inside and outside the bag.
@@bradley3549 He already tried that with a air hose from the cyclone to the bin to keep a vacuum outside the bag but it didnt work.
@@3dmazter I must have missed that one. The concept does work, I have done it. As usual the devil is in the details, I will have to look back to see what how he did it.
hanks for sharing that, well said
I had a similar heating problem going to a VFD. Easy fixed with a computer cooling fan that runs when the VFD is on. I took off the original fan and modified the housing to make some space.
the clap 9:17, reminds of a video of a guy closing his hatch onto his ladder and shattering the glass.
That charging dock is pretty clever
Thanks!
Maybe covering fins with some sort of air collector that wraps airflow around the motor heatsink can help cooling it at lower speeds.
When that day comes and you fly the coup, I hope the house you buy is a real fixer upper. I'd love to see that progress.
This kid is amazing!!!!
great update. thanks.
I went back and watched the building of your dust collectors. I can answer the question of where the cracks in the housing came from; Ebay. Your motor came pre-cracked.
Mum's. Can't live without them.
1:10 - Archeology for woodworkers! Also, if the airtightness of OSB is a concern, paint is an easy way to improve that. :)
Always love your video's
Marius, you could try to put the bag for dust with the upper border of the bag looking from the top hole of the bin. And fold the bag's 'corners' outside.
That way it possibly won't deflect so much and I'm curious if it'll work (and if I got you correctly).
Very common for induction motors run at slow speeds, is to remove the motor fan, and fit an auxiliary cooling fan in its place.
Another food for thought with the motor RPM with the VFD is that you could also install a thermal switch in the stop circuit that would trip off the VFD when the motor became too hot. This would be a good idea regardless of whether you adjust the pulley diameter. I suspect you would be fine with the current pulley arrangement since you're not running the saw for hours on end.
The areas of collection on your impeller and inside the separator are absolutely due to the low pressure, as you mentioned, but also static attraction. The dust is charged. Since your parts are made of plastic and wood (with a plastic finish layer on the outside) it will become charged over time and attract dust. There probably isnt much you can do. Maybe adding a ESD discharge wire to your ducts, if you dont already have one, might help-- but i doubt it.
Re the band-saw. I would add an external fan that is turned on only when the motor is run at slower speeds. Like a car radiator fan. In that way you could simplify your pulley setup and run the motor at any speed you like. It will add extra space to the motor and you will need to power it somehow, but for the times your cutting metal having an extra component to start is worth the increase flexibility of the saw.
that garbage system is sensible, ours here is the full size box that you have, each week they empty it, we do have recycling but its not enforced really, every second week they will pick up paper recyclables, we have to bring plastics to a depot ourselves. For bulk (ie old furniture/appliances) once a month there will be a day you can request something to be picked up.
I went and watched how you made this back in 2015. (Small Dust Collector #2) you can see the motor already have cracks where you indicated in this video.
Interesting. I didn't have in mind rewatching my own video to check for the cracks. Thanks for the info
Would love to see the build of an 11 blade impeller and the balance and noise difference!!
I wish I had a charging station like that for my smartphone!
For the red bags, you could/should use a holder, that keeps it open and upright for you.
I think the same every time I empty the bins. And after it's done I think...I'll get to it eventually
@@MariusHornberger Well, it'd also work for all the other random trash you generate that isn't fit for the extractors.
Something like this:
www.amazon.de/QUICK-STAR-Müllsackständer-Müllbeutelhalter-Müllsackhalter/dp/B07RSS2HRK
Could always buy one if you can't figure out how to build it (he said, wondering if the bait works if you say that it's bait).
I would put the red bag enveloping the whole container, flip it upside down, then tappy tap tap it all falls inside. Maybe the bottom could have a loose board and a hole to pass a temporary screw-in rod (broom stick? proper!) to act as a piston
@@MrMartinSchou I followed that link and then looked around at some of the related products which I find are only available in Germany. I found it interesting that Germany has thought out the waste stream so well as to standardize and color code trash bags for different types of trash. In the US any such standardization would cause an uproar about "government control" and "communism", but I'd be willing to bet that you pay less on average for trash collection and that your system results in cleaner streets and far less trash blowing around in your communities. In my community it is still LEGAL to burn trash, and I live on the downwind side of town. In the winter, the stench of burning trash often settles over the whole town for weeks. Personally, I compost what I can, re-use or recycle as much as I can, and haul the rest to a local trash facility, but I also have to spend about an hour a week collecting trash that blows into my yard from neighbors who simply pile their trash for a few months, waiting until there is "enough" to burn.
From what i understand of aerodynamics and bernoulli's principle is that and gas that accelerates has a lower pressure. So the front of the impeller blades would actually be a lower pressure as opposed to the higher pressure described. I would imagine the dust build up is actually from a buble of stagnant air that sits behind the blade as it runs much like when you move you hand fast through water and an air pocket forms on the back side of you hand.
You may use lazy susan for motor mounts. It removes the load on the motor shaft.
Looks like you need to enlarge your workspace for such a big dust collector system
When disposing the dust into an bag make sure to keep it as dryas possible. My bag of dust got wet and i didnt notice. Microbs started growing and produced so much heat that the bag self combusted and firefighters were needed to extinguish the burning cellar... Lesson learned
Hi Marius.
If you are concerned about the heat build-up in the motor, it might already contain a thermistor embedded in the stator windings. Look at the nameplate for /TH or /TF. It should be just after the motor name. eg. DT90L4/TH. If it does the thermistor can probably be connected to your new VFD. Two extra wires will then be present in the motor connection box.
You would also be able to force cool the motor and then use it below 10-15Hz without issues.
Furthermore the specific motor you are using DT90L4 is rated for, at least, a stator temperature of 125 degrees C, probably higher.
I guess you would notice a smell of hot wood dust long before the motor fails. If you have any question regarding this I'll be happy to assist.
With the right vfd (if that matters) you can power low voltage pc fans when the frequency output is at a level you set in the vfd programming.
I would be very interested to see an 11-bladed impeller. Perhaps you could even space the blades irregularly (then restore balance with ballast weights). I would hope that the noise spectrum would be flatter than before.
Ich mache Messer und habe mir vor 10 Jahren meinen ersten Bandschleifer selbst gebaut. Genau aus diesem Grund, Motorüberhitzung bei langsamen Drehzahlen, habe ich mir den Motor für diese Maschine mit einem Fremdlüfter ausgestattet. Beim Messer machen schleift man oft und lange (über Stunden) mit niedrigen Drehzahlen. Ich habe in den 10 Jahren den Fremdlüfter so gut wie nie gebraucht, vielleicht 5 - 10 mal. Kurz Hand auf dem Motor gelegt und wenn gefühlt zu warm, Zeit für eine Pause.
Falls der Motor und FU es zulässt kann man auch eine Motortemperaturüberwachung einbauen die dann abschaltet.
Marius, the motor issue, keep it simple, just add a standolone fan on the back of the motor. While ICE engines need temperature to work, electric motors hate it. I don't know how much cfm it would need, but something physically identical or more efficient than the one attached to the motor. Running the motor above 50hz, will produce a tonload of heat... I wouldn't do it.
I've also been working on a dead cat holder for my same microphones since I work outside a bunch. The dead cats fall off way too easily.
Das Problem mit Motoren und Frequenzumrichtern wie du bereits erwähnt hattest ist Kühlung.
Ein Probleme was du nicht Bedacht/wusstest ist das Motoren die Über der auf dem Typenschild stehenden Frequenz betreiben werde an Drehmoment verlieren da sie im Feldschwächebereich betreiben werden. Der Drehmoment Verlust kann bis zu 60 Prozent betragen je nach Motor.
Ob das dann noch reicht um zuverlässig Holz zu scheiden musst du selbst wissen oder probieren.
Ich persönlich würde eher für eine Fremdbelüftung am Motor sorgen als ihn bei 70 oder 80 Herz zu betreiben.
Zum Thema Stern/Dreieck musst du schauen was auf dem Motor Typen Schild als zulässige Spannung für den Stern oder Dreieck betrieb steht, sowie die Versorgungsspannung deines Frequenzumrichters beachten
8:50 - The ghoasts of historical woodworking projects being sucked away to a dark, distant place.
if you have the opportunity to shift fases on the motor or other metod. you could make it run backwards for a few seconds after daily use. cleans the fins quite good :)
Neat idea, but I can't do it with this motor
Interesting topic! Instead of worrying that the motor might be getting too hot when you run it at 30 Hz for a few minutes I'd rather be worrying about it overheating if you run it at 70 Hz or more most of the time. Unless your motor is rated for that kind of speed (which I doubt) the coils will get hot and the lifetime of the bearings reduced.
Personally I'd prefer your first option (50 Hz for wood, less for metal).
Just install a big pc van on the back of the motor.
You can controll it with the VFD.
It has output for that and you can change settings so the fan only starts when you go below a specific motor speed.
I was wondering the same thing, although I didn't realise that the VFD had an output for this, I thought that you'd have to design it yourself.
you could use the dust collection to cool the motor when cutting metal
22:20 Very clever solution :)
thanks
Maybe you could use your dust collector to draw air across your band saw motor, perhaps build an enclosure to guide the air.
Regarding noise, try using different blade distances. (Like it is done in tyres and cvt chains)
In Sweden (atleast the part where I live) we pay per kilogram of waste.. The garbage truck scans the bins and weighs it automatically before and after emptying. Unfortunately the yearly fee is quite high compared to the fee per kilogram so it doesn't really promote recycling as much as it could.
Maybe make a little wire or wood frame that you can clip those red bags around top in an open position to make filling much easier?
Name the part 'mounting-foot'. or so :-)
Bandsaw: I guess, it's easier to mount an independed fan behind the motor. They are available in 230V, so you don't need a powersupply. And they are cheap. But use one from Pabst. They have have good bearings.
This guy is like a young Matthias Wandel
Great video, really thorough and enjoyable update.
100 people will say this, but I guess a simple tall + skinny plastic bucket in the big collector will make your dust cleanup a lot easier, (just pull it out and empty into a bag), though i guess at the expense of a bit of capacity.
I explained in the video that I already tried it and it didn't work, because the bag gets deflected from the vacuum
@@MariusHornberger bag or bucket? I get that a bag would get blown around but didn't think a proper bucket would get deflected so much, but, i've never made my own dust collector so I wouldn't know :)
I meant something along the lines of one of these inside the wooden case www.ebay.com.au/itm/200Lts-Blue-Plastic-Drum/203095361281?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Deb44e93b2d18485e88636b3b96930900%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D192641486314%26itm%3D203095361281%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598
Oh I misread bag and bucket. I have seen a bucket like this imploding due to the pressure. I think what works well is a cage that prevents the bag from deflection inside the wooden bucket
Marius, why not make a small door/hatch in the impeller housing for cleaning (big metal housing)?
I'm wondering if there's a way to make a dust collector that compresses the waste into fire logs. Especially one that fits under the cnc machine. You can use them in fires or sell them.
When I empty my dust collector, I take a 30gal bag, slip it over the collector's bag, flip the whole thing, and slide the collector's bag out. Works pretty well.
But he has to use these specific bags.
@@gaunerchen1729 I get that. I wonder if it's worth making a funnel sized to them. Probably not.
a big funnel is actually my idea as well. I just never get to making it
I think you should run the dust collection system out through the wall into an adjacent shed or outbuilding. Cleaning would be easier and safer on your lungs. Is that feasible? Regards Col.
Put a note on the small impeller why it's hard to take off so you remember.
8:46 I think you could put a (large enough) plastic bag OVER the dust can, keeping it tightly around the can, then invert it upside down; if your red bag isn't big enough to go over the dust can/bin, you could use a different trash bag to dump it in first, and then put your red bag over the opening, dumping the first/larger bag into your red bag OUTDOORS. :-)
Could it be the cracks you are experiencing on your motor, is from the torque of the motor when it starts and stops?
12 vs 11 blade comparison, yes please! I've often wondered if it would be possible to figure out a nonuniform blade spacing that retains balance, too. High quality endmills sometimes use nonuniform flute spacings to reduce chatter, which is kind of related (avoiding resonance).
Non-uniform fans for reduced vibration? like the fenestron on the tail of an Eurocopter (now Airbus) EC135 helicopter.
17:35 yep , it would be interesting indeed :)
Hi Marius! Along the years you've made at least two variations of dust separators with Thien baffles. Which one do you think works best for a shop vac set up considering use for finer dust mainly (track saw and sander)? The one you made for the pantorouter ou the other for your dust collector?
On the bandsaw, pull the silly bent piece of tin that "they" call the fan off the motor shaft. Vanish their silly restrictive cowling. Replace it all with an electric fan.
I'm sure you can come up with a cowling / cover to pretty it up and make it safe.
If the cooling is done separately with an electric fan, the cooling will obviously be separated from the motor speed.
I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing you want to get involved with, but you could even have dynamic fan speed control on the basis of motor case heat. A microcontroller and a linear temperature sensor like an LM35 would do just fine.
Horses for courses I guess - You might prefer the mechanical approach.
if you put a vacuum port at the bottom and outside the bag will it hold the bag open in the box?
To minimise the dust sticking to the plastic pieces, would it be possible to use earthing strips to remove the static?
The first solution to the motor overheating problem that sprang into my head was to use the dust collector to suck air through the motor.
What about screwing a electric fan to the cooling cowl of the bandsaw's motor? So that the big motor does not cool itself, but is pressure-cooled from outside?
remove the motor fan and replace it with an electric fan, incorporate a bit of electronics (Arduino) for speed control, slow RPM makes the fan speeds up keeping it cool regardless of speed of the drive motor. (The DM UK)
Ha! I just commented pretty much the same.
Add an LM35 temperature sensor to one of the analogue inputs, and you could have dynamic fan speed on the basis of motor case heat:
~ Not very hot? Fan speed low (quiet)
~ Getting toastie? Fan speed high (removes more heat)
I've always disliked having fan cooling attached to motor shafts.
Could you compress the sawdust into pellets and burn for heating the shop?
I use my sawdust in the garden as mulch
Try to build a collapsible container for the red trashbags so this 9:09 doesn't happen again. The container could be built like a pallet collar and the bottom could also be attached with a hinge.
29:40 why not just adding a electric fan to cool the motor?
15:49 wenn du dir dein Video anschaust, wo du den Motor verbaut hast siehst du, dass der Motor die Risse von Anfang an hatte
HEY quick idea might be crap BUT i think you might be able to make an adapter that allows you to attach a red bag to the second dust collector you emptied in this video relatively easy that would allow you to minimize cleanup while emptying the bins and it would also compact the sawdust quite well
Hm, could work. My idea would be a big funnel
@@MariusHornberger definetly harder to store unless you make it collapsible
Have you tried putting the bag over the bucket and then invert it, if it’s wide enough that is then lift the bucket to deposit sawdust into bag
The bag is not wide enough for that
I always wanted to know, how Weizenmehl is made...
Thanks for keeping us updated :-)
Where as the trash handling in the part of Germany where i lived previously was some what the same, it is totally different here in Bulgaria. Just one big container about 150 m down the road, for everyone and everything...
I am very curious about the differences of the 12 fin imperller vs one with 11 fins.
Is it ok for the band saw motor to run over 50 Hz. It will increase the air flow for sure, but is it not a problem for bearings etc.?
Cheers from Bulgaria
It's perfectly fine for the motor to run at ~1800rpm instead of 1400
For impeller design, this wouldn't work with 11 fins, but it would be interesting to use a design with different length fins. That should spread the noise across a wider spectrum making it sound quieter than it actually is.
Do you have a video showing how you made your CNC dust collector, the smaller one? I'd love to see how it actually works. It appears that you put the impeller above a cyclone tube, which makes the system more compact. But if I'm seeing it correctly, you could locate the impeller and motor assembly across the room and still use the dust collector, as the impeller isn't actually acting like a centrifuge correct?
I have 4 build videos about it on my channel