The Citroën CX is a Festival of Freak - The Carmudgeon Show Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 104
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2023
- Everything you ever wanted to know about Citroën - but didn't know you wanted to know it.
This episode of the Carmudgeon Show is all about the French brand Citroën, sparked by Jason's recent drive of Derek's magnificent CX.
Purposefully weird, it's not only a monument of design, but of engineering, too, with incomparably smooth hydropneumatic suspension.
Tune in to learn everything about the history of Citroën (including its Dutch name), the Traction Avant, DS, ID, CX, BX, and other models. And of course a discussion of modern Citroën, its history, and innovations.
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The Carmudgeon Show is part of the Hagerty Podcast Network. - Авто та транспорт
As a kid my neighbour who shared our driveway had a gold Citroen CX . It was like a spaceship next to my dad's metalic burnt orange 1979 Nissan-Datsun skyline GT.. what a driveway that would be now
I grew up with the Xantia which was pretty conventional by Citroen standards but they still managed to do some weird stuff. The top of the range version actually did the moose test better than the 911 at the time. I remember my father doing a timingbelt change on his and he comes in telling me "They have put the timing belt through the engine mount!"
The spinning wheel of waiting at the mention of Ferdinand Piech was absolutely the metaphor we all deserve.
Belgian here, I speak both French and Dutch, very impressed by Jason’s dutch accent
Sacré bleu, Jason, you need to do an Icons and/or Revelations on the DS!
I have the absolute pleasure of owning a 1985 (still series I!) CX Prestige with automatic transmission, working AC, full electric windows and I love that head turner of a car! Drive it a lot the last weeks and if possible would not want to drive another car ever.
I was amazed last time when both of you spoke French. Now Jason is speaking Dutch 😂. Here's a like from a French car guy who also can German and Dutch!
I have been so waiting for the CX episode! Derek that is the color I would want and have considered changing my white CX to that green. Also jealous you have the early interior with the rotating drum gauges over my conventional gauge set. Shameless plug goes out to CX Basis for the dedication to the model. And you can polish your German when ordering parts.
Also love that finally other people recognize the brilliance of the Citroen.
It's funny to me a CX is "cool" now. In my youth in France everyone hated them because they tended to be driven by beret wearing, amish beard, sandals with socks drivers pulling a caravan at 20 kph under the speed limit in no-passing zones. The DS/SM yeah, BX/AX/CX nope... Time does funny things.
The interesting thing about Stellantis is that those cars *are* different. Just in ways that matter to average people, not to enthusiasts. The underpinnings and tech are the same, the layout is generally standardized, but the styling is vastly different. It's basically like clothing. Stellantis is the Inditex of cars......
Was this a pre-lunch carmudgeon? I am appreciating the fire from Jason, and his loss of logical mental track more often are quite amusing. As for Hyphen, his vulgarity increased as his hanger has grown. This is fantastic.
Mildly distracting that the mixer is in focus on the main cam rather than the hosts 😅
This episode brought to you by Rode
Technically André Citroen(no trema) was half Dutch and half Polish. Considering that he was born, raised and lived his whole life in France I would just say that he was French.
More weird French car than I could have imagined. Fantastic!
A journalist said he learnd while his father switched from a BMW sedan to a liftback Saab, that one of a sedan's advantages is the lack of cold wind on the passengers neck, when someone opens the boot. So, the CX supposed to be somehing like an executive sedan...
Another thing, about parking on a hill: wouldn't it be possible to steer the wheels in the correct position, switching off the car, pulling out the key, and waiting for the steering lock to engage? (And wouldn't it be perfectly OK to turn the wheels towards the curbs even when the car is parked uphills? If the car rolls back, the front might move a bit to the direction of the center of the road, but the rear wheels still should quickly hit the curb, and that should stop the car.)
Window switches belong in the center console dammit. As for Citroen I really want a SM so so badly. And speaking of Lotus, my uncle's Esprit caught fire on a lift all on its on lol.
Yes, I miss how cars used to be different looks , controls and technology. my past cars, Renault, Volvo , Chrysler, VW , Triumph and many Saabs. I’ve driven many citroens and they are also unique and enjoyable in their own way.
My best friend’s dad had one of these in the 90. It was so much cooler than all the Ladas and Opels on the streets of Vratsa, Bulgaria
They use to use CXs to film horse racing on the infield because their suspension was so good at keeping the camera still.
As a car obsessed linguist... this was a delightful episode ❤
Jason speaking Dutch. Best revelation EVER!
The Europeans didn’t think a luxury car should have a hatch back. The XM that came after the CX was a hatch but it had an interior window that sealed the passenger compartment.
My Uncle had several CX's when I was growing up, I loved just sitting in the drivers seat looking at the strange control layout
Frog here. Quality content. Love the way you talk and make fun of French. Your knowledge of the Citroën's suspension and history is great! Massive thumbs up!
Leave the insert pictures up longer, please!
Another fun fact, the later version CX side mirrors were used on the Jaguar XJ220
And the Aston Martin Virage, V8, DB7, Venturi, about 3 McLaren F1s (the rest used Corrado ones), Lotus Esprit, several TVRs, the Renault Sport Spider, Marcos
The GS was built with a Wankel engine - it was thus that finally broke the company as an independent entity. Citroemn bought most back and scrapped them as they didn't want to support with parts etc.
Still a few survived thankfully. An NSU supplied engine.
They didn't put a hatch because they didn't want the noise a hatch generates.... J'adore les citroën, j'en veux une... j'en n'ai pas besoin mais j'en veux une
Merci Derek, love the CX , CK which had a fantastic Jean Paul Goude advertising video with Grace Jones in it, it’s a classic of car advertising !
Talking about the 5-speed column shift reminded me of the Peugeot 404 with a 4-speed column shift. They basically took the standard pattern and transferred it to the column, so 1st gear is up and away from the driver. Reverse was closest to the driver and down... and don't forget the e-brake which was also column mounted lower.. still, the best riding car my parents ever had.
All that great work on Citroen, now you need to learn how to say Peugeot ;-) Great episode guys !
FWD in french is Traction, RWD Propulsion, AWD Quatre Motrice.
Finally, the citroëpisode!
Citroën’s hydro suspension actually is damped. The passage way between the body of the cylinder and the nitrogen filled accumulator has flow restricting plate that acts like a damping piston just stationary; as well as a bypass for when you have small bumps that the tires can handle. The Mercedes system doesn’t, as far as I’m aware, have either and only rides on the accumulator (similarly set up like a low rider with accumulators) and results in the “boat” like composure.
It's so sad we ended up from variety and extrovert designs with character to almost everyone buying lifted shitboxes that can't do anything especially well.
Interestingly enough, being from 1971 I was 9-18yrs old in the 80s. My neighbor had a DS but i never new what it was until 2016 when I saw a UA-cam video, maybe Jay Leno and realized finally what that car it was. I remember it always leaving me with curiosity most of my younger life never not knowing what car my neighbor had. Ive always been fascinated with these cars. Its dorky & stunning.
I'm very excited to attend Radwood for the very first time! Looking forward to attending the show. ✈️
Day 1353 without a Piechisode !
loving the center cam out of focus lmao
It is in focus. That's the clearest soundboard I've seen in any of these videos 😂
"There needs to be something for the every-person that's different." - Scion tried that by bringing inexpensive and odd (for the US) Toyotas. My brother loves his xB.
Jason mentioned that JACTO manufactures Mercedes' automatic transmissions. That's not true. Only the CVT used on some A and B classes come from JACTO. All other "proper" Mercedes automatics (5 speed, 7 speed then 9 speed) are made in-house by Daimler.
Citroen (without dieresis) in Dutch translates into lemon in English. A dieresis (tréma in French or Umlaut in German) is meant to signal that the affected vowel is to be pronounced separately.
The Traction Avant was a mass produced monocoque body construction. Independent front suspension. Therefore quite a bit lower than contemporary cars, safer, better handling and easy to drive. At the time it looked much sleeker and quite futuristic than the competition.
Nowadays we just look at the fenders / wings and associate that to pre-WW2, therefore really old.
@31:51 Fluids are absolutely compressible, as all gases (which are fluids) are compressible. LIQUIDS (which are also fluids) are generally not compressible.
To me, French cars are a bit like jazz: an acquired taste that I appreciate more as I get older. Funny, but many of the things that once repelled me about both are now the things I find most interesting about them.
I can C an X in my future, to accompany my lovely 2CV. Weirdness tout le jour! ❤
"all the lotus owners are miserable which is why the community is great"
true words.
The brake mushroom has first generation haptic feedback...
Great episode! I daily drove a CX series2 for 6 years as a dutch guy. Great car! A little less quirky than the series1 but still very weird and a much better daily driver because of higher build quality. Rust eventually won but I never had a big mechanical failure except for normal old car issues/maintenance. It was a true pain to work on tho.. I truelly loved this thing but my current e32 BMW is a better car in every way, suspension included. It's a shame all cars are the same nowadays, I will stick to the older stuf...
As far as I can tell, Mazda still makes their own transmissions. Aisin AW might have designed it for them, but they appear to be built only by and for Mazda.
In the past, Mazda has used Jatco and Nissan rwd transmissions and Ford fwd transaxles as well.
Yep, GM also makes a few of their own transmissions for various models, like their transverse 6AT, 8AT, and 9AT as well as their longitudinal 8AT. Mercedes makes a variety of their own automatics too, as does Subaru, Honda, and Hyundai/Kia. Toyota of course also makes their own transmissions, they just do it through Aisin (which they own), and most other manufacturers use Aisin or ZF automatics for good reason.
I see the standardization of automatics like the Aisin AWF835 and ZF8HP to be a good thing, as they're proven + reliable, standardization makes parts easier to find, and you can still get significantly different driving characteristics depending on how the actual shifts are tuned. The Toyota RAV4 sharing it's transmission with the Polestar 1 is less of a mark against the Polestar 1 and more of a pro for the RAV4.
Imagine if Nissan only sold a Micra and a GTR I think that's what you were talking about with Citroen and it's hilarious.
Between Jason with the Rover and hyphen with the Citroen that might be the oddest pairing of cars out there.
I was thinking more like if Toyota sold just the Corolla and LS400, but yeah, friggin wild to think about...
Or a leaf and a lucid
Your Dutch is pretty good Jason!!
Cannot make it to Radwood this year, but would love to see any content from it!
You know you have become a seasoned car enthusiast when you look at a Citroen and go, 'wow, that's a _really_ cool car' where, previously, you were more like _'whatever_ on that thing - don't really know what it is, and don't really care...'
I owned a Prestige series 2. Just wonderful. It was replaced by a 1969 DS
Little nitpick, Jason: gases are fluids too. It's liquids that are (generally) (mostly) incompressible
Window switches next to the gear lever did take some time to get used to in my facelift E46. Like a few days tops. Did this J. D. Power thing come in that late?
My gather had to CX, the GTI Turbo 2, and a diesel... both were driven above 400 k. First time I was dirven I had to be around 22, they were a blast, but so different. Good looking cars too.
Citroën sold a lot of cars in Spain. I've been a passenger in a 2CV and various BX taxicabs, probably others when I lived in Spain. I certainly saw many different varieties of Citroën cars (and Renaults) while in Spain.
Derek: "It's self-Jacking"
Me: *me too*
So as I understand it, the nitrogen acts as the spring (similar to any airbag suspension) and the hydraulic fluid is both height adjustment and damping. The damping would come from restriction of the flow of the fluid, similar to a traditional fluid filled shock absorber. If that's correct, I wonder if you could fix the excess motion of the Mercedes by adding more restrictions? Maybe the system wasn't properly adapted to the new vehicle weight, although that would be very un-German.
You are correct. The gas is the spring and the fluid restriction is the dampening. There are different spheres with different calibrations depending on the model. My CX GTI turbo balls are different than Derek’s balls.
There is a german guy with a citroen xantia on yt that has modified spheres. He has a track set up I'd say. The car is uber cool
I only saw the CX in France and right now once a year on the streets being an "old-timer". It was ahead of its time and then Citroen lost it.
Citroen ❤!
Man wish I could fly to see radwood may be next year
Ah, you’ve got one of the Renault engined ones. That’s the Douvrin - a good engine used for a long time. But the actual Citroen engine was a timing chain and cam in block job that allowed for accessory drive off the back of the cam.
It looks like VW in a lot of their new cars is going to put the wiper controls on the indicator stalk paired with a column shifter, similar to Mercedes. The ID. Buzz, ID.7, the new Passat and Tiguan all seems to have it that way.
i ve had 3 CX*s...fantastic cars...the steering...completly uncorruptible..hit a pot hole...one side of the car on the road the other on the rough...will track true no matter what..and under brakes totally safe straight braking...then the ride...never bettered
Awesome episode! Just on thing: Can you pleas tell Derek to pronounce it not poo-show, but pio-show or something like that... I'm sure there is a phonetic file available on it 😀thx...
Awesome as always, have you seen the Citroen Visa “coke can”? Just madness but brilliant, made my dad swear at every junction
8:20 Yes! I'm from 1971 and I always called them "Grand Pricks" 😂 Damn we have so much in common, lets grab a coffee! 😂😅❤
The best
Wider track in the front was for handling purposes
In Polish Citroen is called lemon as well.
Mk1 Scirocco was single wiper from that same time period.
Not Sea shells, Nazi shells lmao.
In my neighbourhood there is a bright yellow Targa Newfoundland Citroën CX.
Wow Derek 🤤🤤
Andre Citroën a Dutch dude born in Paris - cousin to the English philosopher Sir A J Ayer.
18:40 Try me Jason
Redwood Question: When is the Piechisope™ going to be released? 😂
As a south African believe me there are many people that speak dialects of Dutch. Flams, Afrikaans ect. I desperately want to go to Germany one day but I'm struggling my arse off trying to learn German.
Speak English- most Germans do
THAT one day... I will invite you for a Braaai. ;)
@@tonyclewes8 yeah i know but i feel like out of politeness i need to atleast know if people are talking about something.
Did Derek say "Not seashells" or "Nazi-shells" ?! 😅
Speaking of a company that has both the top and bottom , Hyundai has a 10grandish i10 and has Genesis G90
Hey Derek, Whitworth Bolts as standard....go lol
Agreed... Citroen is special...
Unique outlook on the automobile that is hugely seductive...
I have owned 17 Citroens in Australia over 52 years of sheer JOY.
Including a new 1978 CX 2400 EFI 5 speed Prestige with leather.
My dad had a CX 2400 Pallas C matic and mum had a GS 1220 Club Cmatic. And my brother had an ID19 and later a Xantia.
The DS was so haughty and elegant.
The CX very chic and stylish.. more like a guided missile on wheels...
The single wiper, aerodynamics and concave self cleaning rear window of the CX means you could drive rather fast in wet weather...
Loved the fingertip controls and Diravi self centring steering when driving the CX high speed missile.
Prestige had headrests and footrests for the rear seat passengers and sunvisors for rear doors and sunblinds for the rear window.
More comfort and space than a RR Siver Shadow II .. At one quarter of the price.
I really appreciate your effort to pronounce correctly the brands but… I have a doubt that PEUGEOT should be pronounced differently
ua-cam.com/video/LejGLJU-Pps/v-deo.html
Stumping Derek and shutting up Jason would be the harder challenge....
How do you dare 🇨🇵😊
Yeah, but everyone has known that Seppos have always been mispronouncing André Citroen.
Whilst Jason's lament of Citroen being inside Stelantis has merit Sergio Marchionne was right (before his untimely death mid 2018) to go courting GM after the Chrysler merger as Ferd's concept is correct. Cars are now too expansive to develop for it to fail to sell. It would eat a small to medium sized car maker. The price is mediocrity and lack of genius that gave us DS, XM, CX. Now WTF men, where is the Piech episode ! Comm'on man !!!
"Shitron ... we don't curse on this fucking show."
Is the video out of focus for anyone or is just me?
Do NOT tell the Dutch that their language is halfway between English and German!!! They don’t take it well 😂 Ask me how I know 😊
Jason if you weren’t sarcastic, we would think you were sick.
Piechisode when you cowards
well if they do it now - we cannot complain anymore - so draw it out please :)
I agree piechisode cowards
"We dont curse in this f***** show"
Love a Citroën! I was pissed at my parents for not buying a BX!!! I even laid sideways in the boot as a kid to demonstrate how much bigger it was than previous cars and the dull cack they were looking at other than the Citroën🤷♂️🤦🏼♂️🤣🤣🤣
Meh, I wonder why I’ve spent 30yrs working with cars for my sins….. and yes I’m still trying to fill that BX hole but I’ve finally found one I like that’s not well buggered🤷♂️ the joys of living in Europe now and then, also don’t have Cheetos as country leaders, we just have giant as#holes that only screw us over, and yet don’t focus on politics like Americans weirdly do and just go to the pub to forget the latest dumb things our government have done….. that’s a long list to forget!
Hence Brits drink a lot!🤷♂️👌🏻🤣
Another term with the cheeto and we can go back to celebratory drinking rather than the commiseration of late. I'm looking forward to it.
Audi GT/80 same mind f*ck of a trunk
Man, do I hate it when you Carmudgeons get all repetively redundant...