I have a theory that because most of the videos that were taken down from pointcrow were BOTW mod videos. Maybe the copyright guys at Nintendo thought that people could think "why bother buying the sequel, when we can just mod the original to put whatever we want in it" (basically, they could see BOTW mod as competition for TOTK) an other example would be modding smash for WiiU and adding new characters (or even ultimate characters) thus "why buying ultimate and it DLC when I just could have a mod that put all the new characters in the previous game for cheaper" But I’m just speculating and not trying to take any sides with that.
Last week, Kit and Krysta talked about this situation and got HATED on in much of their comments by people vilifying Nintendo and confidently saying incorrect stuff. It bothers me that the very first reaction to this stuff, every single time, is _____ IS AN EVIL COMPANY. Not because I have any sympathy for the big wigs running these massive companies, but because, the reality is, big companies are made up of human beings. And especially in this UA-cam case, this was probably all the actions of just a few people. And yet, the whole pot gets poisoned. The reality of controversy like this is never as simple as “big compony bad,” and especially in a case involving mods and the like, it’s a billion times more complicated. For the record, I hate that Nintendo refuses to communicate with creators about their guidelines, and that Nintendo hates mods in the first place. I wish they allowed Mods, because they’re cool.
One of the problems I have about the Nintendo hate is when people hate Nintendo as a whole they're basically dragging into developers and the employees as well to have absolutely nothing to do with it and they can't even think for a moment that it's the legal team in Japan that's doing it.
@MidBoss the thing is... This kind of relationship between company and "fans" is not exclusive to Nintendo. EPL (English Premier League) has a very aggressive take down policy on using clips of matches for reviews amd commentary... And basically every other Japanese companies as well...
@@aperson7511 I can’t control how you perceive a compony. Go on ahead and let whatever streamer told you to think that tell you what to think, I don’t care. but at the very least, don’t go attacking or blaming people who don’t deserve it, like Kit and Krysta, or Nintendo employees that had nothing to do with it, for instance, because they disagree. Not that you specifically have done that, I don’t know, that’s just what Im trying to say.
Big companies are all evil, Nintendo is just particularly evil bec they use copyright in ways that target little people for no reason. And companies are literally owned and controlled by a handful of people. How is that relevant to them being evil? You can't seperate the actions of a company from the people in charge, that's how capitalism works the people in charge = the company.
as a genshin fan, watching Pat say "bring her back" every time Eula appears on screen is cracking me up. So many Eula fans agree with you there Pat. Eula rerun when.
Said it elsewhere, but it's the same issue as what happened to TotallyNotMark with Toei. The issue is both on the laws, but also the cultural spirit of Japan whee they are EXTREMELY protective of whatever they do.
exactly, Nintendo is very protective of their properties despite the reason people mod their games is out of passion for their games + is just small project and never for profit, but of course they dont care. Maybe one day they’ll change their tune, but thats very far and away
@@damienmitchell3104 I mean, it'll eventually change when they all die off someday, as all cultures inevitably do. ...Which isn't exactly a solution, but still technically counts.
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 except this time it was literally for profit. The guy making the mod more than likely did so specifically because of the 10k$ which is just a big no from a legal standpoint.
@@MarkoIronFist Someone said the content he was reacting to was boring and all he did was let them know that he found it interesting so if they didn't want to see it they could just skip out on it. Not sure how that is mockery at all haha. If he implied the person was stupid for not liking it or even mocked their message then sure, but all he did was straight up let them know he's gonna be watching it as others clearly were enjoying it and if they don't like it then so be it.
there was not a sonic mod that basically rewrote and changed the game. especially in this way. turning a full SP game into multiplayer is not just moding by skyrim definition (as most know moding to be) it fundamentally changed the game at its core coding as well as you need to jailbreak the switch for it to even work. nintendo being up in arms over this is honestly more than understandable. i dont agree with the entire way they went about it but i at least understand why they went after him with the ferocity they did. this isnt "company bad uwu" this is "company doesnt want their products changed and shown publicly in such a manner"
Stardew valley is the same way concerned ape (the developer of the game) encouraged mods hell the newer update (1.6) when it comes out will help the modders and a quote from him is "There is going to be a Stardew 1.6 update. It's mostly changes for modders (which will make it easier & more powerful to mod)"
Old Nintendo used to claim everything tho, after a while they had an program but they could kick you out and still claim stuff if you did something they dislike like modding. Nintendo Japn still does not get UA-cam and there is always a change they will revert back. Nintendo America and others has helped to back down a little, but in truth the Japan side still just does not get the appeal of social media, promotion, youtubers etc
I used to argue all the time with my grandfather that DMCA and Copyright laws were out of date. This was do to him telling me "Well if they're just going to break the law constantly on the internet why should I feel sorry for them at all?" when I mentioned DMCA takedowns. I told him "It's because they're not doing anything illegal. The issue is that they don't have the money to argue it in court against companies with 100s of times the money and lawyers they do," then we argued about how the laws were heavily outdated because of how fast technology has changed society. We never were able to come to an agreement on it, but he always maintained that content creators shouldn't be allowed to make content on video games since it breaks the law.
So lets suppose someone draws cool art and posts it on the internet, should someone be allowed to draw a mustache on it and sell it as their own claiming that the original artist deserves no credit since they did not have a mustache?
@@MarkoIronFist You're literally talking about something that came about AFTER the laws were written. Our laws don't take things like that into account because they weren't possible before. So those kinds of things are settled on a case by case basis in courts. That's literally what I was saying in regards to the laws being horribly outdated. It's not just about people like content creators getting more protection, but also about situations such as digital art theft being rampant.
I do agree that using pointcrow situation as an agenda for anti-Nintendo won’t help (especially when the majority of peoples working at Nintendo have no say in this, and it’s all up to the higher up that only got where they’re because they know it makes money. They don’t really know completely why Nintendo games/franchises are so profitable, they just know it’ll make them a lot of money)
To be honest, with how rabbid Nintendo is about protecting "the way the game is meant to be played," I'm a little shocked they let Nuzlockes go on for so long.
The people at Nintendo who understand what Nuzlockes are don't care. What Nintendo genuinely hates is randomizers. You would think they would capitalize on the trend and bake it in... But we're talking about Nintendo lol
I think you missunderstood the thing about the 2 claims: - he got 1 claim for the most egregious videos, he appealed them, THEN he got the 2nd one, and THEN he tried talking to nintendo that he got them in 2 batches was just fair by nintendo, if he didn't dispute the first claims he probably wouldn't have gotten the 2nd one
When I was working at Wal-Mart in the electronic section, I was told by the Sony vendor that if you use any 3rd party controllers it voids the warranty and could be used against you if there is damage to the system itself.
MatPat did say that Shame is a popular weapon to use against big companies to maybe not knock down a peg, but more so to make them stagger Okay maybe that's not substantial enough, if that could affect their shareholder's opionions, sure
I know that he's a lawyer, but I feel like that just because he is doesn't mean he's immortal to criticism and I partly say this because he did state something (from one court ruling) that feels rather conflicting and it was the argument that all derivatives are by default infringement, as if fair use only applies to the reproduction part of section 106 of copyright. Of course I'll keep an open mind and say that I could be wrong about the fair use part, but if it can apply to 106 (2) just as much as 106 (1), then I feel like that there could be a chance that some mods has a chance at being fair use and due to murky areas of fair use, I am curious if some modding of lawful copyrighted thing one owns is has a bigger chance? Many mods releases don't come with the entire game, so when the mod is applied it is usually applied with the game someone already has. It's similar to helping someone innocently alter a lawful copyrighted painting they own. Of course this is partly in favor of hope that a court might find it fair use and I hope they do as I feel like I should have a right to modify any lawful thing I own in the privacy of my home.
If they go too far with striking down channels, people just won't bother anymore. Why stream Mario Party, when you can stream Pummel Party for example. Or, even if it's worse, why risk playing Mario Kart, when you can safely play Garfield Kart instead. Right or wrong, it's still a market, it depends on people actually buying what they sell. Just as content creators live thanks to Nintendo's goodwill, Nintendo lives out of their consumers' goodwill. Or, as Emiya Shirou put it: Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right. I am somewhat puzzled how EA still somehow defies that logic though.
EA siphons money from their undercompanies. as for nintendo its literally to big to fail. even if people stopped buying it would take years before the company would be on the cusk of going down. and it wouldnt even go down all the way it would just cease its overseas market and stay in japan where it would stay afloat.
yeah good luck making a game as good as Mario odessy or BoTW. If you think gamers care enough about youtubers that they'd just give up on actual great games, then you're thinking too highly of yourselves, and underestimating Nintendo's ability to develop games
I am so sick of nobody talking about how cool Sega is. The stuff that the Sonic community has been able to do is f*cking stellar... it can also be cursed beyond reality.
Ik Sonic team and also Sage,Sonic rom hack and fangame community did More than just exchange Lesson from official Sonic Team to fans And Fans to Sonic team... Sonic Improved as They notice so much potential That their fans did to Sonic.... Sega did Well on Let Sonic team to Operate Sonic's legacy and also Let Fans Express how they grateful that their favorite Video game Character rise more and the company isnt like Nintendo
yes and no. its the same vein as comissioning someone to draw you a picture of Superman. Superman is copyrighted but you can still ask someone to draw it for you as long as you dont resell it as Official DC artwork. its along a similiar vein here if im not mistaken.
@@damienmitchell3104 but what if you made a video about how cool that superman artwork is and made money off that video. Is that still legal? Im honestly not sure what to pick so Im neutral through this.
@@arenndups5294 if we are going to dive fairly deep into it then as long as that artwork of superman is not a negative impact on the brand that is Superman then it is all ok. the issue that comes with the mod is that it was a negative impact on Nintendo, going beyond just not how the game was meant to be played, but also changing core coding of the game AND of the Switch system itself to allow this to occur. I do highly disagree with the collateral that this caused, but given how much was changed and edited to make this occur nintendo pursing crow with this level of ferocity i understand. Fair Use and a few other things are also places were japan has fallen well beyond everyone else.
@@damienmitchell3104 You are mistaken All fanart is illegal, you didn't ask permission All third party modifications are illegal, you didn't ask permission
Nintendo would have to do something insane for there to be significant enough backlash to hurt their bottom line. Even with all the people supporting pointcrow in his comments or on twitter, even with all the people talking about how much they hate Nintendo for this, 90% of them are still gonna buy TotK, and the next Mario game, and the next Pokemon game.
There's an interesting Chicago Law Review article (stay with me) about "de facto Fair Use" and the chilling effect UA-cam's ContentID system has on fair use protections. "Algorithmic Fair Use" by Professor Dan L. Burk raises a lot of interesting issues.
I know this is off topic, but I realized Patterz and Pointcrow were wearing the same glasses, then realized I have the same glasses that I used to wear in high school
This is why shady said he was only going to post vanilla gameplay to his channel from now on. As he would like to work with the pokemon company on certain events. This is black and white. Pointcrow fucked up by modding a game nintendo didnt want modded, he got 2 strikes which are a slap on the wrist really. He knew the risks and still went for it. This is all on him, everyone knows how nintendo is and sony is for that matter. Why do you think so many streamers play half arsed indie games on stream. Its not that deep
because these people think them and the youtubers they like are special, they think so highly of themselves that they upheld themselves as sacrosanct, they never imagined their action would have consequences and they'd have to take accountability
I don't even think its the fact he modded it. This only happened after he explicitly came out saying he payed someone to mod the game. I think the fact he paid 10k for the multiplayer mod is what pushed it over the edge. Also did not help him linking towards the mod in the video description which lead people to a patreon page, meaning someone is making money from the mod which is a big no no.
You know he probably would have been better off trying to contact Nintendo directly about working on this with them where Nintendo can directly sell and own the rights to it as in that scenario everyone wins as Nintendo would have no reason to be mad at him for making something with their ip without their permission possibly a lesson people can take in the future that working with the companies will probably yield better results than trying to work around them
As a genshin player why there shouldn't be any problem saying that genshin took inspiration from breath of the wild, it's normal to be inspired by something when you create something, the most important thing is giving it personal twist
Yeah. The only things you cna really say are the same is the exploration, and some of the monster design. I've played both, and there are enough differences to warrant not being a knockoff.
The problem with changing the law is most law makers don’t understand that the laws are out of date, because they barely understand the internet. I can only think of one law maker that actually understands the internet, and that’s AOC. Im sure there are others, but she’s the only one I can think of that really understands internet culture. I’m not even a fan of hers, but I do recognize she personally engages in internet culture, and therefore understands it.
One of my problems about the Nintendo hate situation is the fact that they're a bunch of brainless people that can't even think for a moment and if they blame Nintendo as a whole then they're basically dragging in the developers and the employees there as well that have absolutely nothing to do with the situation and they can't even think for a moment that it's actually their legal team in Japan that's doing all this stuff.
because those idiots sees themselves as heros fighting a big bad villan and brag about. Yet reality is never just black and white, and lashing out without any understanding and knowledge, just make them new generation of pathetic SJWs
There are two things this video constantly ignores: the first is the effect of companies on the law. The law does not exist in a vacuum. Copyright laws are very influenced and even created around corporate lobbying in a very capitalist society. Saying "the problem isn't the company it's the law" is hogwash, companies love the law bec it favors them, they helped craft the law, and they love using the law. They are responsible for the bad law itself. They are also responsible for their own enforcement of said law *which they don't have to*. This video literally points out that companies often don't so saying it's the not the company that's bad is doubly ludicrous.
16:28 Well Pat, we Americans are very bad at changing laws no matter how bad they are. I'm not at all surprised we haven't made changes to these laws considering we've been operating under the same Federal law for around 250 years
One problem I have with the "it's a multi-player mod on a single player game is then why haven't Nintendo taken down small ants videos on Mario odyssey multi-player mod and don't say "well Mario odyssey has multi-player" as an argument its couch co-op they made it full multi-player like there are multiple Mario's isn't that technically a big no no its almost as I'd Nintendo doesn't actually care its just they are randomly taking down videos for no reason it feels that way anyway but if they actually cared about that small ant would be going through it as well not just point crow and croton
It's honestly the US legal system's fault. If you don't sue anyone who "violates" your IP, that can be used against you in future court cases as an example of you setting a precedent that others can use your IPs for free.
"It would be nice if Nintendo applied rules consistently" The whole point of his video is that you REALLY don't want them to do that. The ONLY way to be truly consistent is the letter of the law.
Wait, Patterrz thinks Nintendo (a multi-million dollar company) cares about the morality of their decisions? Money talks, and as far as Nintendo sees it anyone/everyone is trying to steal their hard earned money. (as UA-camrs/Animators/Content Creators specifically)
I think the thing that pushed this over the edge for whoever decides what to strike down is the fact that pointcrow was very open at having paid someone 10k to mod the game. Making money from mods is a no no. And linking people to the creators patreon and mod was also really not good.
All I'm really getting from this video is that there's a difference between a legal right and a moral action. Nintendo has a legal right to do what they're doing. But the law sucks, and the backlash is completely and totally justified. The law was basically written before content creators were a thing, and therefore has completely illegalized an entire industry that we tend to tolerate because it doesn't actually harm anyone, and also benefits the people who try to keep it illegal. So... uh... Yeah. Situation kinda sucks, but it basically highlights the difference between illegal and immoral actions, and shows how the two aren't always the same.
Pretty on point. Legally they are fully in the right, and with the potential dangers of a multiplayer mod because of how deep that would need to go into the code, its more than likely in their best interest to stop it. But morally it still feels wrong.
This is why the EFF is such a big deal. The key word to look for in the software space is "Free software", a label which means you're FREE to modify it as you wish. Free as in freedom.
To be exact the simple action of forcing the user into rules after they BOUGHT the product is already morally wrong. Sorry. but their EULA and DMCA only means that you don't really own your own games. you own the right to play it until they decide so. Where is the Protection rights of customer in there? cause I don't see any. Its simply I bought MY GAME. I PAID TO OWN IT. I'm not renting it. So you won't tell me own to enjoy it. If i go at the butcher and I a ribeye to make jerkies. the butcher as not rights to force me to dryage it. its the same thing. I own it. I choose own to consume it. And that nintendo doesn't realise is that BY GETTING MORE STRICT with their IP. they are just making people more willing to pirate it to begin with instead of paying for it. increasing the market for dumped ISOs
With what happened the last Week's Nintendo might have turned 0,005% of their Users from Fans To Haters. Forever. This might just be a small number but these now Haters have Friends and Work Colleges and Children and their Children have friends. And these Haters are spread around the world. I had an NES and i was a Fan from the beginning. But now i will destroy Nintendo for everyone by just telling the truth and show them for what they really are.
And I have no Agenda. I am just one very disapointed guy who loved Nintendo for the last 30 years and thought it was a cool company. But unfortunately it is not.
isn’t people playing their games, modded or not, just free exposure?? I mean I get the music thing when it’s on its own without the proper gameplay or credits, but with the gameplay, it should be completely fine, as it’s basically free advertisement and stuff. Then again, that might be the issue.. Nintendo doesn’t want other people to be paid for advertising their games, which makes no sense, as if the games are advertised via gameplay instead of just a trailer, it would make more people want to buy the game, right?? (Outside of basic Ace Attorney knowledge, I have NO CLUE how legal stuff works so uhh)
it isnt even legal issues its literally culture. Japanese culture dislikes social media youtube etc. they are fiercely protective of things and their own CR Laws are even further behind ours which are already pretty far behind modern tech. its a compound of issues. but ultimately point crow brought it on himself. Modded Game that went beyond just basic modding into changing core coding of the game fundamentally changing it AND using a jailbroken switch. add to that as some have point out the BoTW sequal is due to release soon so they are cleaning up before it releases.
A lot of delusional fanboyism in comment section, as one can expect. The idea that corporations are always in the absolute moral right as long as they act within the law is laughable. The same goes for the idea that what Nintendo is doing is standard industry practice or that they "need" to protect their copyrighted material, there's countless video game companies that allow or encourage mods and community content. Pretty much all companies who crack down on these things anywhere near the level Nintendo does get called out for it (Rockstar is an example that comes to mind). You are not a victim just because a company you've decided to build your entire identity on is being criticized for it's own actions.
Nono people like SEGA are genuinely putting themselves at risk allowing mods without permissions All it takes is 1 vulture of a company to go "Hmmm court, this company isn't protecting their IP, look at all this unlisenced stuff" for either that company or the fancontent to die
The laws are only part of the problem, the rest is their greed like all the rest. They don’t care about the laws until it benefits them and like mentioned in the video and by pointcrow that they arbitrarily and disproportionately enforce them when they think it will affect their money, even tho Zelda has made them millions already so I don’t get how a mod will affect the millions already made except their greed of wanting more. Technically nothing is stopping them from not enforcing those rules and takedowns except knowing they are in the wrong doing so. If they were a much smaller company that would be different but they’re not, they’ve existed and exploited for 100+ years as a company, why would they do the right thing when there’s money to be made? At this point I’d love to see the company brought to its knees at the mercy of the fans but that’ll sadly never happen bc Nintendo is one of the best emotional manipulators knowing how to control their fans will minimal effort or action put into their bs. Same with all the other game companies under Nintendo, mostly gamefreak. They can all catch the guillotine for their greed. The only way I’ll consume Nintendo content is through UA-camrs just to spite them.
If this was a western company your greed comment would be spot on, but this is well beyond that and into culture things with Japan and Social Media/Content Creators and the length of which the mod went to change the game and switch. But from everything you seem to have such a hate boner for Nintendo and the entire way you went about this just screams vindication. "already made them millions, they just want more". So they made their money and need to stop earning? Guess they need to set Zelda as Free Use for everyone now right? The dude went into the game. Completely changed the code from its core. Used a jail broken switch to do this all on. I hate the way nintendo has gone about it, but at least the ferocity they went after it with was understandable. this isnt just modding this changing the entire damn game. add to that the entirely diffrent culture in JP vs here when it comes to social media and and content creation and its just a recipe for disaster.
Sorry not sorry, but as far as I'm concerned. Once the game is sold to me then you forfeit your right to tell me what I can do with the game I own in single player.
Nintendon't just hates ppl who add stuff to their games that they are too lazy to.. rarely companies react to modding like Nintendon't do.. just make your games more protected from being improved!
@@TheLuthorri you are saying that Nintendo hates mods because it improves the games. Not really it infringes upon their intellectual property. The mod pointcrow had made cost money and brought a significant Change not intended in botw. Thus he got his vids taken town. And most other companies are willing to the same.
Bruh I'm calling it now Nintendo literally is gonna flag all these content creators and 5 to 10 years from now they'll literally be begging for people to advertise there games because literally Nintendo is gonna get so forgotten as time goes on because they refuse to rely on the trends to boost there sales well let's see how long that helps u Nintendo let's see them get by without content creator influence
no but nintendo has slowly gotten better over the years this is just a compounded issue. the extent of the mod, and the looming release date of BOTW2. ive made this comment so many times now i dont even wanna get back into it but point did this to himself with the extent he went with the mod imho. i dont agree with how nintendo handled all of this but at least i understand the ferocity they went after this with.
I have a theory that because most of the videos that were taken down from pointcrow were BOTW mod videos. Maybe the copyright guys at Nintendo thought that people could think "why bother buying the sequel, when we can just mod the original to put whatever we want in it" (basically, they could see BOTW mod as competition for TOTK) an other example would be modding smash for WiiU and adding new characters (or even ultimate characters) thus "why buying ultimate and it DLC when I just could have a mod that put all the new characters in the previous game for cheaper"
But I’m just speculating and not trying to take any sides with that.
That's a really good theory
@@The_14th_Star Yeah. When money is involved companies are more likely to act.
As a veteran, I can honestly say his job is riskier than what I did in the military.
As a fellow veteran…I agree
As a non veteran I third this
As a non veteran, I fourth this
As a veterinarian, I fifth this
As a non veteran I sixth this
Last week, Kit and Krysta talked about this situation and got HATED on in much of their comments by people vilifying Nintendo and confidently saying incorrect stuff.
It bothers me that the very first reaction to this stuff, every single time, is _____ IS AN EVIL COMPANY. Not because I have any sympathy for the big wigs running these massive companies, but because, the reality is, big companies are made up of human beings. And especially in this UA-cam case, this was probably all the actions of just a few people. And yet, the whole pot gets poisoned.
The reality of controversy like this is never as simple as “big compony bad,” and especially in a case involving mods and the like, it’s a billion times more complicated.
For the record, I hate that Nintendo refuses to communicate with creators about their guidelines, and that Nintendo hates mods in the first place. I wish they allowed Mods, because they’re cool.
One of the problems I have about the Nintendo hate is when people hate Nintendo as a whole they're basically dragging into developers and the employees as well to have absolutely nothing to do with it and they can't even think for a moment that it's the legal team in Japan that's doing it.
@MidBoss the thing is... This kind of relationship between company and "fans" is not exclusive to Nintendo.
EPL (English Premier League) has a very aggressive take down policy on using clips of matches for reviews amd commentary...
And basically every other Japanese companies as well...
They aren't evil just very morally corrupt
@@aperson7511 I can’t control how you perceive a compony. Go on ahead and let whatever streamer told you to think that tell you what to think, I don’t care. but at the very least, don’t go attacking or blaming people who don’t deserve it, like Kit and Krysta, or Nintendo employees that had nothing to do with it, for instance, because they disagree. Not that you specifically have done that, I don’t know, that’s just what Im trying to say.
Big companies are all evil, Nintendo is just particularly evil bec they use copyright in ways that target little people for no reason.
And companies are literally owned and controlled by a handful of people. How is that relevant to them being evil? You can't seperate the actions of a company from the people in charge, that's how capitalism works the people in charge = the company.
as a genshin fan, watching Pat say "bring her back" every time Eula appears on screen is cracking me up. So many Eula fans agree with you there Pat. Eula rerun when.
I don't know how you manage to like genshin impact. Have you seen how much money they make you spend, and how toxic the community is?
@@mundodacrianca2147 let people like things maybe?
Said it elsewhere, but it's the same issue as what happened to TotallyNotMark with Toei.
The issue is both on the laws, but also the cultural spirit of Japan whee they are EXTREMELY protective of whatever they do.
exactly, Nintendo is very protective of their properties despite the reason people mod their games is out of passion for their games + is just small project and never for profit, but of course they dont care.
Maybe one day they’ll change their tune, but thats very far and away
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 it wont change because its to deep rooted in their culture.
@@damienmitchell3104 I mean, it'll eventually change when they all die off someday, as all cultures inevitably do. ...Which isn't exactly a solution, but still technically counts.
@@Shalakor true, generational change is bound to happen soon
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 except this time it was literally for profit. The guy making the mod more than likely did so specifically because of the 10k$ which is just a big no from a legal standpoint.
Gotta love how professional Patt keeps it when a chatter comments that they don’t wanna watch what he’s covering, good on him.
Feel more like mockery.
@@MarkoIronFist Someone said the content he was reacting to was boring and all he did was let them know that he found it interesting so if they didn't want to see it they could just skip out on it. Not sure how that is mockery at all haha. If he implied the person was stupid for not liking it or even mocked their message then sure, but all he did was straight up let them know he's gonna be watching it as others clearly were enjoying it and if they don't like it then so be it.
I love how Sega/sonic team never minds. They tend to embraces mods honestly.
Sonic omens look like shit
@@Alphahunter456 are the topics in those videos ‘bad’ or ‘good’???
@@shiratojin I’m subscribed to his channel
I'd rather let sega follow their own path, rather than listening to the wrong Sonic fans that can destroy the brand and destroy everything
there was not a sonic mod that basically rewrote and changed the game. especially in this way. turning a full SP game into multiplayer is not just moding by skyrim definition (as most know moding to be) it fundamentally changed the game at its core coding as well as you need to jailbreak the switch for it to even work. nintendo being up in arms over this is honestly more than understandable. i dont agree with the entire way they went about it but i at least understand why they went after him with the ferocity they did. this isnt "company bad uwu" this is "company doesnt want their products changed and shown publicly in such a manner"
Stardew valley is the same way concerned ape (the developer of the game) encouraged mods hell the newer update (1.6) when it comes out will help the modders and a quote from him is "There is going to be a Stardew 1.6 update. It's mostly changes for modders (which will make it easier & more powerful to mod)"
We love concerned ape
@@pemanilnoob yes of course
I would argue that Stardew Valley is available on PC and the developer is not selling any hardware.
@@redring4083 and I would agree with you but you can only really mod on PC unless you have a modded switch
Old Nintendo used to claim everything tho, after a while they had an program but they could kick you out and still claim stuff if you did something they dislike like modding. Nintendo Japn still does not get UA-cam and there is always a change they will revert back. Nintendo America and others has helped to back down a little, but in truth the Japan side still just does not get the appeal of social media, promotion, youtubers etc
Absolutely love that you pulled up Moon Channel's video. I was ready to spread the "good word" about it and then bam, that's what you covered. XD
I used to argue all the time with my grandfather that DMCA and Copyright laws were out of date. This was do to him telling me "Well if they're just going to break the law constantly on the internet why should I feel sorry for them at all?" when I mentioned DMCA takedowns. I told him "It's because they're not doing anything illegal. The issue is that they don't have the money to argue it in court against companies with 100s of times the money and lawyers they do," then we argued about how the laws were heavily outdated because of how fast technology has changed society. We never were able to come to an agreement on it, but he always maintained that content creators shouldn't be allowed to make content on video games since it breaks the law.
Jeez!
CC are free marketing. our laws are very out of date but 99% of that can be blamed on the music empire who dont want it changed.
So lets suppose someone draws cool art and posts it on the internet, should someone be allowed to draw a mustache on it and sell it as their own claiming that the original artist deserves no credit since they did not have a mustache?
@@MarkoIronFist You're literally talking about something that came about AFTER the laws were written. Our laws don't take things like that into account because they weren't possible before. So those kinds of things are settled on a case by case basis in courts. That's literally what I was saying in regards to the laws being horribly outdated. It's not just about people like content creators getting more protection, but also about situations such as digital art theft being rampant.
Patterz does
What Nintendon't
I do agree that using pointcrow situation as an agenda for anti-Nintendo won’t help (especially when the majority of peoples working at Nintendo have no say in this, and it’s all up to the higher up that only got where they’re because they know it makes money. They don’t really know completely why Nintendo games/franchises are so profitable, they just know it’ll make them a lot of money)
To be honest, with how rabbid Nintendo is about protecting "the way the game is meant to be played," I'm a little shocked they let Nuzlockes go on for so long.
Nuzlockes aren't a modification of the game's coding, it's just a rule set that can be applied by anyone
Tbf nuzlockes aren't actually modifying the game. It's merely an imposed challenge made by the player.
It’s a joke
Some people at Nintendo think that nutzlocks are mods
The people at Nintendo who understand what Nuzlockes are don't care.
What Nintendo genuinely hates is randomizers. You would think they would capitalize on the trend and bake it in... But we're talking about Nintendo lol
I think you missunderstood the thing about the 2 claims:
- he got 1 claim for the most egregious videos, he appealed them, THEN he got the 2nd one, and THEN he tried talking to nintendo
that he got them in 2 batches was just fair by nintendo, if he didn't dispute the first claims he probably wouldn't have gotten the 2nd one
When I was working at Wal-Mart in the electronic section, I was told by the Sony vendor that if you use any 3rd party controllers it voids the warranty and could be used against you if there is damage to the system itself.
good reason to not tell them you used 3rd party equiptment
I love how the video used clips from ham ham heartbreak. One of my favorite games as a kid and nobody seems to know it exists 😅
MatPat did say that Shame is a popular weapon to use against big companies to maybe not knock down a peg, but more so to make them stagger
Okay maybe that's not substantial enough, if that could affect their shareholder's opionions, sure
I know that he's a lawyer, but I feel like that just because he is doesn't mean he's immortal to criticism and I partly say this because he did state something (from one court ruling) that feels rather conflicting and it was the argument that all derivatives are by default infringement, as if fair use only applies to the reproduction part of section 106 of copyright. Of course I'll keep an open mind and say that I could be wrong about the fair use part, but if it can apply to 106 (2) just as much as 106 (1), then I feel like that there could be a chance that some mods has a chance at being fair use and due to murky areas of fair use, I am curious if some modding of lawful copyrighted thing one owns is has a bigger chance? Many mods releases don't come with the entire game, so when the mod is applied it is usually applied with the game someone already has. It's similar to helping someone innocently alter a lawful copyrighted painting they own. Of course this is partly in favor of hope that a court might find it fair use and I hope they do as I feel like I should have a right to modify any lawful thing I own in the privacy of my home.
If they go too far with striking down channels, people just won't bother anymore. Why stream Mario Party, when you can stream Pummel Party for example. Or, even if it's worse, why risk playing Mario Kart, when you can safely play Garfield Kart instead. Right or wrong, it's still a market, it depends on people actually buying what they sell. Just as content creators live thanks to Nintendo's goodwill, Nintendo lives out of their consumers' goodwill.
Or, as Emiya Shirou put it: Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right.
I am somewhat puzzled how EA still somehow defies that logic though.
EA siphons money from their undercompanies. as for nintendo its literally to big to fail. even if people stopped buying it would take years before the company would be on the cusk of going down. and it wouldnt even go down all the way it would just cease its overseas market and stay in japan where it would stay afloat.
yeah good luck making a game as good as Mario odessy or BoTW.
If you think gamers care enough about youtubers that they'd just give up on actual great games, then you're thinking too highly of yourselves, and underestimating Nintendo's ability to develop games
I am so sick of nobody talking about how cool Sega is. The stuff that the Sonic community has been able to do is f*cking stellar... it can also be cursed beyond reality.
Ik Sonic team and also Sage,Sonic rom hack and fangame community did More than just exchange Lesson from official Sonic Team to fans And Fans to Sonic team... Sonic Improved as They notice so much potential That their fans did to Sonic.... Sega did Well on Let Sonic team to Operate Sonic's legacy and also Let Fans Express how they grateful that their favorite Video game Character rise more and the company isnt like Nintendo
Sega on the other hand their not making anything huge to get people talking
@@yarc9 Sonic frontiers? Murder of Sonic? Origins Plus?
@@gamrgool4521 the murderer of sonic the hedgehog is a Perfect April fools Game that Sega ever did made
@@yarc9 i think you still in that Forces era....while peoplr already hyper for Sonic Frontier and its update
maybe I misunderstand, but he comissioned the mod? that means he payed someone else to mod the game for him? isn't that actually selling the mod?
yes and no. its the same vein as comissioning someone to draw you a picture of Superman. Superman is copyrighted but you can still ask someone to draw it for you as long as you dont resell it as Official DC artwork. its along a similiar vein here if im not mistaken.
@@damienmitchell3104 but what if you made a video about how cool that superman artwork is and made money off that video. Is that still legal? Im honestly not sure what to pick so Im neutral through this.
@@arenndups5294 if we are going to dive fairly deep into it then as long as that artwork of superman is not a negative impact on the brand that is Superman then it is all ok.
the issue that comes with the mod is that it was a negative impact on Nintendo, going beyond just not how the game was meant to be played, but also changing core coding of the game AND of the Switch system itself to allow this to occur. I do highly disagree with the collateral that this caused, but given how much was changed and edited to make this occur nintendo pursing crow with this level of ferocity i understand.
Fair Use and a few other things are also places were japan has fallen well beyond everyone else.
@@damienmitchell3104 You are mistaken
All fanart is illegal, you didn't ask permission
All third party modifications are illegal, you didn't ask permission
Nintendo would have to do something insane for there to be significant enough backlash to hurt their bottom line. Even with all the people supporting pointcrow in his comments or on twitter, even with all the people talking about how much they hate Nintendo for this, 90% of them are still gonna buy TotK, and the next Mario game, and the next Pokemon game.
There's an interesting Chicago Law Review article (stay with me) about "de facto Fair Use" and the chilling effect UA-cam's ContentID system has on fair use protections. "Algorithmic Fair Use" by Professor Dan L. Burk raises a lot of interesting issues.
12:50 you are wrong here. Pointcrow did not try to communicate, that is part of the problem. Appealing their claim is not communication.
Nintendos going to be like “Oh you want us to apply consistently? Okay!” Then anyone who plays nintendo games will be in a lot of trouble lol
I know this is off topic, but I realized Patterz and Pointcrow were wearing the same glasses, then realized I have the same glasses that I used to wear in high school
This is why shady said he was only going to post vanilla gameplay to his channel from now on. As he would like to work with the pokemon company on certain events. This is black and white. Pointcrow fucked up by modding a game nintendo didnt want modded, he got 2 strikes which are a slap on the wrist really. He knew the risks and still went for it. This is all on him, everyone knows how nintendo is and sony is for that matter. Why do you think so many streamers play half arsed indie games on stream. Its not that deep
because these people think them and the youtubers they like are special, they think so highly of themselves that they upheld themselves as sacrosanct, they never imagined their action would have consequences and they'd have to take accountability
I don't even think its the fact he modded it. This only happened after he explicitly came out saying he payed someone to mod the game. I think the fact he paid 10k for the multiplayer mod is what pushed it over the edge. Also did not help him linking towards the mod in the video description which lead people to a patreon page, meaning someone is making money from the mod which is a big no no.
23:10 okay I feel like I'm out of the loop because those feel like VERY specific examples.
One thing they might be doing is prepping to add multiplayer to TotK, so adding multiplayer would have limited their ability to market TotK.
To the person in chat that said “can u stop pausing”. You could always go watch the original video.
and all this comes back to the fact that laws take too long to be made
Edit: and yes I did like my own comment
You know he probably would have been better off trying to contact Nintendo directly about working on this with them where Nintendo can directly sell and own the rights to it as in that scenario everyone wins as Nintendo would have no reason to be mad at him for making something with their ip without their permission possibly a lesson people can take in the future that working with the companies will probably yield better results than trying to work around them
As a genshin player why there shouldn't be any problem saying that genshin took inspiration from breath of the wild, it's normal to be inspired by something when you create something, the most important thing is giving it personal twist
Yeah. The only things you cna really say are the same is the exploration, and some of the monster design. I've played both, and there are enough differences to warrant not being a knockoff.
The problem with changing the law is most law makers don’t understand that the laws are out of date, because they barely understand the internet. I can only think of one law maker that actually understands the internet, and that’s AOC. Im sure there are others, but she’s the only one I can think of that really understands internet culture. I’m not even a fan of hers, but I do recognize she personally engages in internet culture, and therefore understands it.
If they would stay consistent and go after everyone doing x, instead of only a small handful, it wouldn't be as bad.
One of my problems about the Nintendo hate situation is the fact that they're a bunch of brainless people that can't even think for a moment and if they blame Nintendo as a whole then they're basically dragging in the developers and the employees there as well that have absolutely nothing to do with the situation and they can't even think for a moment that it's actually their legal team in Japan that's doing all this stuff.
because those idiots sees themselves as heros fighting a big bad villan and brag about. Yet reality is never just black and white, and lashing out without any understanding and knowledge, just make them new generation of pathetic SJWs
@@lorlok623Exactly! (Sorry for the late reply)
There are two things this video constantly ignores: the first is the effect of companies on the law. The law does not exist in a vacuum. Copyright laws are very influenced and even created around corporate lobbying in a very capitalist society. Saying "the problem isn't the company it's the law" is hogwash, companies love the law bec it favors them, they helped craft the law, and they love using the law. They are responsible for the bad law itself.
They are also responsible for their own enforcement of said law *which they don't have to*. This video literally points out that companies often don't so saying it's the not the company that's bad is doubly ludicrous.
When it comes to fair use its pointless to Japan, as in Japan Fair use is not a thing.
Most of us dont live in japan, cant apply japanese law to us
16:28 Well Pat, we Americans are very bad at changing laws no matter how bad they are. I'm not at all surprised we haven't made changes to these laws considering we've been operating under the same Federal law for around 250 years
Cracking and modelling beIng considered the same thing It’s like considering car theft and repainting car A car that you own the same thing
Don't worry after TOTK is realesd then they won't attack
I agree, I feel like they are just being overprotecting of legend of zelda due to the new game being released.
One problem I have with the "it's a multi-player mod on a single player game is then why haven't Nintendo taken down small ants videos on Mario odyssey multi-player mod and don't say "well Mario odyssey has multi-player" as an argument its couch co-op they made it full multi-player like there are multiple Mario's isn't that technically a big no no its almost as I'd Nintendo doesn't actually care its just they are randomly taking down videos for no reason it feels that way anyway but if they actually cared about that small ant would be going through it as well not just point crow and croton
Most likely because there is not a new Mario Odyssey game coming out. If there was it wouldn't surprise me if he got those videos taken down as well.
Better than the the EU copyright law in 2015 or the italian anthem scandal
Given all the controversies and scams that a number of UA-camrs got involved in, can you blame Nintendo for hating them?
Yes.
Yes
Nintendo sounds like my mom
My country does not have DMCA laws, how can they take down videos with laws that dont apply to many people
what's up with the waifu2x tab in the upper right corner🤔
I can't believe I'm as old as the dmca law.
Moon Channel Pog
Hey this is the guy I talked about in the last video
TLDR : no more randomizer!!!
Omg he spoiled the first turnabout GASP
So what I got from this is that nintendo reserves itself the right to f you over whenever they feel like it. Hooray......
They're Like Disney, They're OVERPROTECTIVE AF
It's honestly the US legal system's fault. If you don't sue anyone who "violates" your IP, that can be used against you in future court cases as an example of you setting a precedent that others can use your IPs for free.
Comparing them to Disney is absolutely stupid and they're not woke like them
@@M64bros what is the definition of woke
@@yarc9 You probably know what I mean, despite some problems Nintendo is having at least they're not like Disney and they'll never be like them
"It would be nice if Nintendo applied rules consistently"
The whole point of his video is that you REALLY don't want them to do that.
The ONLY way to be truly consistent is the letter of the law.
Wait, Patterrz thinks Nintendo (a multi-million dollar company) cares about the morality of their decisions? Money talks, and as far as Nintendo sees it anyone/everyone is trying to steal their hard earned money. (as UA-camrs/Animators/Content Creators specifically)
Don’t forget Sonic allows it
wow, new hair cut. i like it.
Literally today is my birthday -.-
CaN YoU stop pAusInG
Pat: no
Truly acts of douchbagery by the italian goverment to copyright an anthem cause it was kinda slow
Next they gonna copyright claim you playing the game in general
They were doing that for a while tbh
Being a youtuber is hard sometimes
So, out of curiosity. How can thousands of poketubers get away with videos of pokemon rom hacks?
nintendo ignores it
Well, at least there's that lol.
I think the thing that pushed this over the edge for whoever decides what to strike down is the fact that pointcrow was very open at having paid someone 10k to mod the game. Making money from mods is a no no. And linking people to the creators patreon and mod was also really not good.
damn that hairstyle
So then can you explain pokemon brick bronze getting taken down on Roblox?
All I'm really getting from this video is that there's a difference between a legal right and a moral action. Nintendo has a legal right to do what they're doing. But the law sucks, and the backlash is completely and totally justified. The law was basically written before content creators were a thing, and therefore has completely illegalized an entire industry that we tend to tolerate because it doesn't actually harm anyone, and also benefits the people who try to keep it illegal.
So... uh... Yeah. Situation kinda sucks, but it basically highlights the difference between illegal and immoral actions, and shows how the two aren't always the same.
Pretty on point. Legally they are fully in the right, and with the potential dangers of a multiplayer mod because of how deep that would need to go into the code, its more than likely in their best interest to stop it. But morally it still feels wrong.
Funny thing is I’ve already seen this
This is why the EFF is such a big deal. The key word to look for in the software space is "Free software", a label which means you're FREE to modify it as you wish. Free as in freedom.
In Soviet Russia, game mods you. Respect copyrights for Pete's sake.
Who's the UA-camr in this vid?
Moon Channel
@@pinkpiano26 nah the ginger lad
genshin impact getting mad when you say its like botw is dumb. Since mihoyo themselves said they confirmed that they were heavily inspired by Botw. xD
To be exact the simple action of forcing the user into rules after they BOUGHT the product is already morally wrong. Sorry. but their EULA and DMCA only means that you don't really own your own games. you own the right to play it until they decide so.
Where is the Protection rights of customer in there? cause I don't see any.
Its simply I bought MY GAME. I PAID TO OWN IT. I'm not renting it. So you won't tell me own to enjoy it.
If i go at the butcher and I a ribeye to make jerkies. the butcher as not rights to force me to dryage it. its the same thing. I own it. I choose own to consume it.
And that nintendo doesn't realise is that BY GETTING MORE STRICT with their IP. they are just making people more willing to pirate it to begin with instead of paying for it. increasing the market for dumped ISOs
Pokemon
sega >> nintendo
S A L M O N I D
Steel head
Maw
Steel eel
Big Shot
Smallfry
Hello pat
168 like les goo
With what happened the last Week's Nintendo might have turned 0,005% of their Users from Fans To Haters. Forever. This might just be a small number but these now Haters have Friends and Work Colleges and Children and their Children have friends. And these Haters are spread around the world. I had an NES and i was a Fan from the beginning. But now i will destroy Nintendo for everyone by just telling the truth and show them for what they really are.
And I have no Agenda. I am just one very disapointed guy who loved Nintendo for the last 30 years and thought it was a cool company. But unfortunately it is not.
From what I can see, his newest video was taken down, which is completely stupid
CHEESE
First you are
isn’t people playing their games, modded or not, just free exposure?? I mean I get the music thing when it’s on its own without the proper gameplay or credits, but with the gameplay, it should be completely fine, as it’s basically free advertisement and stuff. Then again, that might be the issue.. Nintendo doesn’t want other people to be paid for advertising their games, which makes no sense, as if the games are advertised via gameplay instead of just a trailer, it would make more people want to buy the game, right?? (Outside of basic Ace Attorney knowledge, I have NO CLUE how legal stuff works so uhh)
it isnt even legal issues its literally culture. Japanese culture dislikes social media youtube etc. they are fiercely protective of things and their own CR Laws are even further behind ours which are already pretty far behind modern tech. its a compound of issues. but ultimately point crow brought it on himself.
Modded Game that went beyond just basic modding into changing core coding of the game fundamentally changing it AND using a jailbroken switch. add to that as some have point out the BoTW sequal is due to release soon so they are cleaning up before it releases.
Any Nintendo content exists:
Nintendo:Say goodbye Termination
I upload Nintendo content and it never happened to me
genshin fans KEKWU
ummmmmmmmm
A lot of delusional fanboyism in comment section, as one can expect. The idea that corporations are always in the absolute moral right as long as they act within the law is laughable. The same goes for the idea that what Nintendo is doing is standard industry practice or that they "need" to protect their copyrighted material, there's countless video game companies that allow or encourage mods and community content. Pretty much all companies who crack down on these things anywhere near the level Nintendo does get called out for it (Rockstar is an example that comes to mind). You are not a victim just because a company you've decided to build your entire identity on is being criticized for it's own actions.
Nono people like SEGA are genuinely putting themselves at risk allowing mods without permissions
All it takes is 1 vulture of a company to go "Hmmm court, this company isn't protecting their IP, look at all this unlisenced stuff" for either that company or the fancontent to die
piracy is okay whatever reason big companies hate piracy they do whatever they can Release a worse version of their game
If piracy was okay then companies wouldn't hate it
@@videogamefanaticlordkh7526 piracy is legal I pirate
@@yarc9 just because it's legal doesn't necessarily mean it's right to do
@@yarc9 bro it''s fucking illegal
@@emperorpalps7004 I pirate and Nintendo can’t stop me you can use an emulator
Im the 69th like on this video les goooooooooooooooooooooo
The laws are only part of the problem, the rest is their greed like all the rest. They don’t care about the laws until it benefits them and like mentioned in the video and by pointcrow that they arbitrarily and disproportionately enforce them when they think it will affect their money, even tho Zelda has made them millions already so I don’t get how a mod will affect the millions already made except their greed of wanting more. Technically nothing is stopping them from not enforcing those rules and takedowns except knowing they are in the wrong doing so. If they were a much smaller company that would be different but they’re not, they’ve existed and exploited for 100+ years as a company, why would they do the right thing when there’s money to be made? At this point I’d love to see the company brought to its knees at the mercy of the fans but that’ll sadly never happen bc Nintendo is one of the best emotional manipulators knowing how to control their fans will minimal effort or action put into their bs. Same with all the other game companies under Nintendo, mostly gamefreak. They can all catch the guillotine for their greed. The only way I’ll consume Nintendo content is through UA-camrs just to spite them.
If this was a western company your greed comment would be spot on, but this is well beyond that and into culture things with Japan and Social Media/Content Creators and the length of which the mod went to change the game and switch.
But from everything you seem to have such a hate boner for Nintendo and the entire way you went about this just screams vindication.
"already made them millions, they just want more". So they made their money and need to stop earning? Guess they need to set Zelda as Free Use for everyone now right? The dude went into the game. Completely changed the code from its core. Used a jail broken switch to do this all on. I hate the way nintendo has gone about it, but at least the ferocity they went after it with was understandable. this isnt just modding this changing the entire damn game. add to that the entirely diffrent culture in JP vs here when it comes to social media and and content creation and its just a recipe for disaster.
Petition buy not makinh nintendo content. Try to get other creators to do the same
Sorry not sorry, but as far as I'm concerned. Once the game is sold to me then you forfeit your right to tell me what I can do with the game I own in single player.
Nintendon't just hates ppl who add stuff to their games that they are too lazy to.. rarely companies react to modding like Nintendon't do.. just make your games more protected from being improved!
bruh wth is this comment?
@@razazaidi5164 a fact
@@TheLuthorri or a shit take!?
@@razazaidi5164 can't wait to hear you prove my point wrong, bro 🤡
@@TheLuthorri you are saying that Nintendo hates mods because it improves the games. Not really it infringes upon their intellectual property. The mod pointcrow had made cost money and brought a significant Change not intended in botw. Thus he got his vids taken town. And most other companies are willing to the same.
Nintendo is a 🤡.
Bruh I'm calling it now Nintendo literally is gonna flag all these content creators and 5 to 10 years from now they'll literally be begging for people to advertise there games because literally Nintendo is gonna get so forgotten as time goes on because they refuse to rely on the trends to boost there sales well let's see how long that helps u Nintendo let's see them get by without content creator influence
tears of the kingdoms still gonna sell cause breath of the wild did so well
Lmao, Nintendo won't be forgotten because of that.
Highly doubt Nintendo would do that very much in reality
no but nintendo has slowly gotten better over the years this is just a compounded issue.
the extent of the mod, and the looming release date of BOTW2.
ive made this comment so many times now i dont even wanna get back into it but point did this to himself with the extent he went with the mod imho. i dont agree with how nintendo handled all of this but at least i understand the ferocity they went after this with.