TF2: Let's talk about the Details behind -Every- Weapon Ban
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
- After around 40 hours of researching, writing, recording and editing, I've finally managed to put together this detailed guide on why every single item is banned currently in competitive TF2, going through all of the weapons, even to the weird bans like taunts and certain cosmetics.
It's been a huge amount of work, so please do let me know if you found it useful!（ ´∀｀）
Subscribe for more TF2! goo.gl/oOqXLV
Credits:
- TMP's video on odd jungle inferno mechanics (gas passer footage)
• 1 Minute of Odd Jungle...
- Touhou remixes used:
• 【東方和風】月まで届け、不死の煙【彩音 ～x...
• Video
• Video
• Video
• Video
• 【東方Acoustic／Bossa Nova...
• 【東方Bossa Nova】 Give up...
• 【東方Bossa Nova】 春のおとずれ ...
• 【東方JAZZ】 上海紅茶館 〜 Chine...
• 【東方JAZZ】 亡き王女の為のセプテット【...
• 【東方Traditional／Bossa N...
• Video
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Links
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
► Group
steamcommunity.com/groups/Woolen
► Twitch
/ awoolensleevelet
► Twitter
/ woolensleevelet
► Discord
/ discord
Credits:
• Intro/Outro music is by: jukiokallio.com (with permission)
• Background ambience is usually from: epidemicsound.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro & Background
2:00 - Scout's Soda Popper
3:00 - Scout's Bonk! Atomic Punch
3:45 - Scout's Crit-a-Cola
4:40 - Scout's Flying Guillotine
5:10 - Scout's Mad Milk
5:48 - Scout's Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol
6:16 - Scout's Atomizer
7:00 - Soldier's Cow Mangler 5000
8:40 - Soldier's Mantreads
9:25 - Soldier's Disciplinary Action
9:40 - Pyro's Dragon's Fury
10:53 - Pyro's Gas Passer
11:15 - Demoman
11:43 - Heavy's Natascha
13:08 - Heavy's Buffalo Steak Sandvich
13:51 - Heavy's Fists of Steel
15:20 - Engineer's Rescue Ranger
16:04 - Engineer's Short Circuit
16:55 - Engineer's Wrangler
17:38 - Medic's Quick Fix
18:58 - Medic's Vaccinator
20:22 - Medic's Solemn Vow
21:22 - Sniper's Machina
22:32 - Sniper's Sydney Sleeper
23:10 - Sniper's Jarate
23:46 - Spy
25:14 - Multi Class' B.A.S.E Jumper
25:40 - Multi Class' Reserve Shooter
26:15 - Pyrovision
27:12 - Noisemakers
27:50 - Noise Making Miscs
29:03 - Explosion on Death Miscs
30:05 - Conclusion - Ігри
----------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a timestamp to everything in the video if you just want to jump to a section!
----------------------------------------------------------------
0:05 - Intro & Background
2:00 - Scout's Soda Popper
3:00 - Scout's Bonk! Atomic Punch
3:45 - Scout's Crit-a-Cola
4:40 - Scout's Flying Guillotine
5:10 - Scout's Mad Milk
5:48 - Scout's Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol
6:16 - Scout's Atomizer
7:00 - Soldier's Cow Mangler 5000
8:40 - Soldier's Mantreads
9:25 - Soldier's Disciplinary Action
9:40 - Pyro's Dragon's Fury
10:53 - Pyro's Gas Passer
11:15 - Demoman
11:43 - Heavy's Natascha
13:08 - Heavy's Buffalo Steak Sandvich
13:51 - Heavy's Fists of Steel
15:20 - Engineer's Rescue Ranger
16:04 - Engineer's Short Circuit
16:55 - Engineer's Wrangler
17:38 - Medic's Quick Fix
18:58 - Medic's Vaccinator
20:22 - Medic's Solemn Vow
21:22 - Sniper's Machina
22:32 - Sniper's Sydney Sleeper
23:10 - Sniper's Jarate
23:46 - Spy
25:14 - Multi Class' B.A.S.E Jumper
25:40 - Multi Class' Reserve Shooter
26:15 - Pyrovision
27:12 - Noisemakers
27:50 - Noise Making Miscs
29:03 - Explosion on Death Miscs
30:05 - Conclusion----------------------------------------------------------------
a Woolen Sleevelet useful stuff
a Woolen Sleevelet Yay tf2 but can u do a trick stabe or stabes vid
Hey woolen. Isn't the Begger's Bazooka banned? I've never seen any comp players use it (Accept one on a old video) but I can't use it when playing 6's. Is there any reason why?
Beggars was banned until recently because you could use an exploit to run around with a fully loaded launcher without having it blow up in your face, letting you just drop ~300 damage on whoever you met
Looking at this list, scorch shot isn't banned yet still no one plays pyro...
“This is why the atomizer is horribly overpowered and therefore banned” *weapon gets unbanned and doesn’t get ran at all*
They use the Boston basher now, just for the Uber build, but they should just have the medic pocket scout run Boston basher and the more aggressive scout use the atomiser.
Lieutenant Wuzz i have played 2 seasons and watched a ton of matches sometimes i see the wrap assasin but litteraly never the atomizer. The winger just gets run instead
Hmm,
@@un1d This is due in part by the Boston Basher being helpful for getting uber, while the Wrap Assassin helps with damage. Atomizer just isn't run because Stock Pistol and Winger are the only Whitelisted Scout items.
@@un1d That's probably because in the past, when it was banned. You could use the third jump anytime. This meant Scout could still have his full damage output, triple jump, and the jump also hurt himself (meaning he could still build Ubers), so overall; it was broken for 6s, because it did everything, and offered Scout a huge bonus for the downside of -10 health; which normally allows you to dodge -60 damage rockets. This is why it was banned.
The reason you don't see it run now; is because of the text that says "Must be active to use." In order to use the Atomizer now, you need to pull it out. Doing this in 6s will get you killed, because good players will see the triple jump coming, and just wait to follow up on it. This decision made the Atomizer basically worthless; especially over the Basher, which allows you to build Uber with your medic. Since you need to pull the Atomizer out to use it; you also weren't dealing damage, letting the enemy know that you were going to run. Otherwise, you had to weapon juggle, which the hesitation could get you killed. Scout needs to drop enemies fast and move quickly, he doesn't have time for these games when fighting enemies that can 2 shot him.
*That moment when your whole Scout loadout is banned in competitive.*
Yea lol
Xb
almost every loadout I've ever used is banned
Jarate, dances, i've literally only ever used Natascha on the heavy (but haven't played in a couple years)
i have less than no interest in comp tf2 frankly
popper, guilllotine, and attomic?
popper, guilllotine, and attomic?
Weegee Squeegee except stock scouy
Imagine a time when you could unironically talk about tf2 getting updates
There are updates. The latest one is “Localization Files”.
Bruh
*sees vaccinator ban* Does this mean competitive tf2 is anti-vax?
Ayyyyyyyy! ;D
Yes, yes it does.
Does that mean that jarate is op
@@anduro7448 You mean O-Pee, right? ;D
Oshit
6's players: Kritz Demo is balanced
Also 6's players: BUFFALO STEAK UNBALANCED BECAUSE FAT MAN GOES FAST SPEEDOS
Sigrun the problem is that fast heavy leads to both teams playing defense the entire game. Nobody wants to see or play the game where two heavies stay revved up at mid for 27 minutes and nobody can move forward until one team tries a desperation push.
@@FirstNameLastName-hz4kv Srsly ITS ALL BECAUSE MOST OF THE BANNED WEAPONS CAN COUNTER HEAVY BUT THE COMP COMMUNITY SUCKS AT LOGIC EG CRIT O COLA OR MAD MILK
Why not just ban heavy lol
the mods are fucking stupid. instead of promoting shifting strategy, if something helps counter the meta, there is a high chance it is banned.
Pichu! (Demo is fine because you have to put in work to get the uber and work to not die, and heavy can be countered pretty easy by sniper and being overwhelmed)
I feel like most of these bans are not a problem with the weapons themselves, just the game mode.
I'd say it's mostly since these weapons were balanced off of 12v12 and some don't translate well to 6v6
at least highlander has less banned weapons
it's not a problem "with" either, both are fine in their own right, it's just that they aren't compatible
@Primo Antonius No engie is a problem of 6s being almost entirely 5cp, in every other game mode you will find engies outside last.
@@tectonical5347 its not even 6v6, it's actually just eh game mode and formant, you only have 4 of the 9 class playing and they are playing on 5cp maps which are inherently flawed. 6s is just not the game mode tf2 should be based around.
I don’t Ike the idea that a weapon can be banned for the sole reason that a off meta class Will be played all the time
i assume youre talking about heavy? issue isnt people playing heavy, its often used on last points. problem comes when heavy is on mid, soldiers cant bomb the medic theyll just get floated. a class that initiates fights 75% of the time, cant initiate the fight. this slows the game down way to much making it boring
The specific reason is that Heavy is much less interesting than a lot of the 6s classes with how they're played, and they can completely deny some of the more fun parts of 6s like soldiers rocket jumping to the point along with heavy fights by their very nature being much less interesting than soldier and scout as an example.
Ill say it once and ill say it again, its not because “6s players dont want the meta to change with offclasses.” Its because its not very enjoyable when a heavy is defending mid and completely shuts down your explosive jumping. Just like how its not fun to play pubs against a good sniper/spy, its not fun to play 6s with a heavy. There are so many close minded casual players in this comments section who think comp players “dOnT wAnT tHeIr GeNeRaLiSt BaBiEs tO bEcOmE bAd” when its really not, comp players are open to change, but unless valve finds a way buff a class that isn’t infuriating to play against in comp and keeps their core design in tact, that change might never happen.
@@itsasecrettoevery1 I mean, that is sorta the CORE DESIGN of the Heavy. He's area control, able to lay down constant threat once in position. Being very good against the guy who does self-damage to get movement is sorta 'Working as designed'.
Ikiry0 Ok? That doesnt mean its fun. Hes meant to be a good defender and a slow attacker, making him fast allows him to push up that defense and that defense is completely shutting down flying soldiers and demos, and jumping scouts. He is already used in last because its really powerful, making his only weakness of low mobility nearly non existent doesnt make the game “better,” it becomes more stale.
If we're just gonna ban any weapon that makes Heavy viable why not just ban Heavy altogether? It's not fair to Soldier, the disciplinary action is awesome.
cause people (who don't even play 6s, see comments) would cry and whine about tf2's main competitive mode forbidding an entire class. the general community already has a LOT of trouble coming to grips with the fact that 6s is considered as good as it is BECAUSE it doesn't have heavies, engies, pyros and snipers: just look at all the threads in the tf2 subreddits where people come up with ideas to make those classes "viable"... by buffing them.
and the fact that they play only 5cp (plus item bans) already acts as a "soft" ban on heavy anyways.
ideally heavy should be reworked so as to not be opressive as fuck to agressors, but well... we got jungle inferno instead.
@@the_Red_Star people like 6s because its pretty much modern quake
@@Thompson200Z well yeah. the entire tf franchise is "what if quake, but with classes".
@@the_Red_Star and for me, that's a huge disadvantage as well. It gets repetitive very quickly. I watched comp TF2 for a year and after that, the magic of the comp TF2 was lost. Probably because I played Dota and I found having many choices in Heroes, items and playstyles make the game very entertaining and full of surprises, even though it's just the same map, same gamemode.
TF2 on the other hands, I feel like the problem lies around the map choices, rather than weapons. 5cp maps are quite flawed for me because it basically forces teams to choose the classes that has high mobility, damage output and speed to win, hence Scout, Soldier and Demo being taken 90% of the time. Deviate from that and you get yourself in a situation where you might throw the game. I don't deny watching a good Demo rollout boring, it just feel repetitive for me after watching it again and again, every match, for a year.
Highlander is fun, but 9 people is just a pain to matchmaking, let alone a tournament with teams competing. I think the concept of a team attacking, a team defending, then switch around is much better since it actually force team to try out different classes compositions and weapons choices. It's like Overwatch standard competitive gamemode, but much better since the visual clutter is less noticeable, clear character and map designs.The map, especially older ones, must be made with new TF2 comp in minds, as Dustbowl is just a huge choke.
I mean the Disciplinary Action is also mechanically broken and has been since basically forever: the melee range means it can hit behind the Soldier. Even without considering the buff, that's a bug that would make it stay banned until Valve fixes it.
I love the stark contrast in how TF2 and overwatch deal with the importance of healing classes in the manner of nerfs/bans.
TF2: Let's nerf the other classes so it isn't so easy for them to destroy the healing class.
Overwatch: Let's nerf the healing class so hard that they no longer become a priority target.
Mercy atleast still has a thing as a pocket class and is still high priority to kill so dont know what you're talking about.
@Chonghan L guess they never gave mercy any mercy huh
When Tank are considered more important than Healer.
@@vivelespatat2670 "breek da sheld"
It's because the healing class is the stalemate breaker. The game revolves around them and the demo because they are the ones who truly facilitate pushing forward. If you make them less important, or more powerful, then the game quickly devolves into either a stalemate (because your team can't Uber through a choke or put out enough damage) or a total coin flip (because teams completely collapse trying to kill either medic and fail.
It’s funny how due to the small scale of 6v6, most of these weapons that are banned are very similar to the weapons that are crazy overpowered in x10 matches
10x mode is fun to play, unlike comp.
@@vivelespatat2670 thats a personal opinion
@@koekiejam18 Certainly infinitely more interesting to watch.
@@koekiejam18 There's more players playing 10x than Comp.
@@vivelespatat2670 not really
While I ultimately disagree with the idea that Valve should specifically balance the game with only 6s in mind, this was a remarkably informative video that laid out your points well. Fascinating watch!
I'm not sure if be said that Value should balance for the format.
casual players wouldn't notice either way, (they'd actually quite like them if they didn't just love bitching so much) and highlander could work around them. I see no reason not to balance purely around comp.
because 99% of the players are not comp?
@@axelfirekirby They've balanced around comp before. Players in casual liked the changes, or it did not affect their gameplay
Example: if they made it so that the Solemn Vow could not see enemy Uber, that would leave casual completely unaffected, while correctly balancing the weapon for comp.
well it doesnt matter either way since the games on hold.. and we can all agree that that sucks...
I've always wondered, does pro TF2 become too degenerative without these bans? I've always liked the idea of players figuring out their own meta.
They did figure out a meta: Modern 6's.
People who play pro tend to have different preferences than other people, so in pro video games where there's variability, that variability is typically reduced by fiat. Smash Bros is reduced to fox vs fox, zero destination; Age of Empires 2 is reduced to mirror matches on Arabia; etc. This is according to the preferences of the pros. You do not put in the hours to become a pro unless you like repetitive tests of skill, as opposed to the randomness of variability that regular players tend to prefer.
@@attackfighter No fox player in his right mind would ever want to play final destination
@@HualianFairy don't Fox players like FD against characters that can't chain grab them?
@@attackfighter people thinking smash is fox dittos 24/7 in 2020 lol
Wait so Friendly heavys aren’t banned
TIME TO HEAL THE WRONG TEAM
There is a special place in hell for you, a place where dispensers un-heal you and remove your ammo and they're everywhere and phlog pyros are always crittin you;
@Brian Treves fuck you scumbag
_Oh no._
@@axethannanth fuck yo-
oh whoops, wrong person.
@@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106 fuck you scumbag
Anti-Scout Weapon: Exists
5CP 6s: WaIt ThAt'S IlLeGal.
Scout Secondary besides Stock and Winger: Exists
6s Comp: WAit thAt'S alSo IlLeGaL
A weapon makes the heavy viable: WaIT THATS ILLEGAL
Any weapon that counters the meta: *exists*
Comp rats: wait that's illegal
@@ariel78_ well yeah, the meta they has the most variety
No item so good you are forced to run it
Whats your point exactly what banned wepon would improve 6s if it were unbanned?
@@mohammadwaled409 i kinda like the idea of shifting strategies more often, i believe that as long as a weapon isnt balantly overpowered like the mad milk, or makes team at a disadvantage like the old vita saw, i believe it should be allowed to encourage more shifting strategies and off classing, for example: a heavy would encourage a team to off class to sniper , i also believe in adding more maps to the competitvr map rotation to change metas
Some random summary:
Soda Popper: Makes scout better at dodging
Bonk: Discount dead ringer
Critacola: Allows easier medic killing
Guillotine: Ranged spam
Mad Milk: Discount soldier banner
PBPP: Straight upgrade to stock
Atomizer: Makes scout better at dodging
Cow Mangler: Straight upgrade to stock, allows easier medic killing
Mantreads: Glitched
Whip: Increased heavy maneuverability
Dragon's Fury: Glitched, otherwise too much DPS
Gas Passer: Glitched
Natascha: OP
Steak: Increased heavy maneuverability
FOS: Makes tank better at tanking
Rescue Ranger: Spawn camping
Short Circuit: Increased sentry survivability
Wrangler: Increased sentry survivability
Quick-Fix: Too much healing, discount dead ringer
Vaccinator: Makes defending last too easy
Solemn Vow: Negates Uber mindgames
Machina: Straight upgrade to stock
Sydney Sleeper: OP
Jarate: OP
Base Jumper: Allows easier medic killing
Reserve shooter: Counters maneuverability
Pyroland: Gives sight benefits
Noisemakers: Annoying, counters spy
Bombinomicon: counters spy
Banned taunts: Cornerpeeking
Multiple items banned for being discount DR
DR perfectly fine.
Wut
Pokémaniac Guquiz but its spy even id he uses his dead ringer they’re not gonna do much since there gonna be spy checking after that one backstab. The banned weapons makes it easy for better classes to escape and do other stuff
@@firefuji3704 several of those are stated to be banned because of giving Heavy maneuverability, who is discouraged from being picked because of his lack thereof.
Sounds a bit like circular logic of you ask me.
@ Yeah, it doesnt make since to me as well.
Ah yes the quick-fix, a weapon that can be over powered by a med and pocket
I feel like most problems with 6s would be fixed if a different gamemode was played like payload or attack/defend.
Nucleus the problem with payload is that 1/3 of the team is sitting on the cart for the whole game which is really boring
It can be boiled down to "nobody wants to cart bitch"
but god forbid anyone plays attack defend
@@richardvlasek2445
Small team sizes and _lack of hitscan in 6s._
Sojjer as much as i agree that i believe A/D is the objective best gamemode for what competitive tf2 should be, the map pool is utter garbage. Only semiviable options are Mossrock, Gravel Pit, and Gorge. If the pool was as big and well..... good as 5cp’s, it would probably be played.
Wooooah, Spy having no banned weapons is kind of surprising.
But nobody plays him anyway so it doesn't matter
Hahaha, haha.... ha...
Nuparus ban all knifes lmao
no no no see... spy is ACTUALLY sooooooo goood, no one plays him because he's banned himself!!!11!!1!1!1!!!1!
Yeeeah I'm not gonna disagree. He's really niche and not worth the time in 6 v 6. Fun as hell in pubs though.
LeCoolFace
DB may be harder to use in 6s because of a smaller target pool and better team communication but the weapon is still broken in pubs, where you can get many easy picks without much of an issue.
Plus, 2HKOing all classes but one without overheal is still incredibly dumb, especially because you can still snipe with it.
Amby is now a wreck so wonder it's not banned and DR was also dealt a major blow in JI.
*decloaks behind you*
I once played 6s in tf2center and people reported players that didn't play meta classes. Also server automatically messages that you aren't playing the meta class. If i remember correctly you were going to get banned for doing so but i left after that game
@@myself8354 For casual players, it may seem so, yes.
Thing is, the 6s meta (2 scouts, 2 soldiers, demo, medic) works really well in a coordinated team environment, however, off-classes are never bannable. You can off-class to pyro, heavy, engie, sniper and spy at any time, but because tf2center is basically casual 6s with people that don't know eachother, it's bound to be cancerous. Believe me, anything in tf2center is much worse than playing in UGC or ETF2L. You won't get kicked from the team by off-classing and no one would chastise you for off-classing. That still doesn't mean that you should run Spy for the entire game. TL;DR, 6s isn't cancerous, but tf2center is.
@Daniel von Strangle tf2center is a site, where people make lobbies for 6s, HL or ultiduo. It's a 1 map game with competitive settings from ETF2L, UGC or ozfortress.
ETF2L, UGC and ozfortress are all competitive leagues, meaning that they're sites where you can find a team for whatever format you want and compete in highly competitive games. There's seasons with different map pools, experimental leagues where new maps or rule sets are being tested and so on. You can think of ETF2L, UGC and ozfortress as ESL or ESEA, if you're familiar with them. tf2center is basically FACEIT, without the rewards, just a friendly competitive game with randoms.
That's a tf2center specific feature ... not a 6s feature
darkySp 6vs6 is trash lmao, just get good at dealing with weapons
@@NeostormXLMAX It's the most successful mode for a reason. Other than preventing heavy caused stalemates the only banned weapons that actually deserve it are the ones which are bugged. It's not a deal with weapons question, it's just to keep the game fun for spectators.
Teams want to win, so if they are allowed to shut down the game at will at any point with a nat heavy you can bet they do as needed, causing truly horrible stalemates (especially combined with the vacc). See the RGL NR 6s for an awful example of this, they lost over 90% of the viewers during a single really bad one in the season 2 semis.
This kills the game. (can't have prizes without sponsors, and can't have sponsors without viewers). So it's banned.
“Hopefully the game will be updated and the white list will be as short as possible” 6 years later 💀💀
"The atomizer allows for too much mobility"
(The jetpack is unbanned!)
"The fists of steel allows you to tank a lot of damage"
(The dead ringer is unbanned!)
"Noise makers are banned because they're annoying"
(ThE fRyInG pAn Is UnBaNnEd!)
atomizer is a scout weapon. the fists of steel is a heavy weapon. the frying pan is a melee weapon.
@@MrIlikepie901 Wow! Thanks for clarifying that! I had absolutely no clue!
certainly seems like it since if you did you would know a class with mobility doesn't need a weapon with extra mobility and a class with no mobility would need a weapon with added mobility. same thing with a class that is already a tank he doesn't need a weapon that helps him with that where as the weakest class having a tank weapon isnt that bad of an idea. the frying pan is just a meme.
@@MrIlikepie901 I don't know, I'd think giving the classes weaponry that completely change their entire purpose is a pretty terrible idea, but to each their own I guess!
"a class with mobility doesn't need a weapon with extra mobility"
Oh, that's the problem? Let me fix it:
"The atomizer allows for too much mobility"
(Force-of-nature, Winger and Baby Face Blaster are unbanned!)
"The fists of steel allows you to tank a lot of damage"
(The Brass Beast and Dalokohs Bar are unbanned!)
"Noise makers are banned because they're annoying"
I'm sticking with frying pan on that one, way easier to spam and way more noticeable.
ok for scouts weapons they have considerable downsides unlike the atomizer. the baby faces blaster only has four shots and your mobility is gimped before you get the benefit. the force a nature only has two shots and its extra mobility shot would mean you get one shot. the wingers benefit mobility wise is extra jump height which doesn't give that much utility like a third jump which literally gives the scout three chances to dodge projectiles which is insane. dalokohs only provides a benefit when not over healed which is literally never in 6s. brass beast needs you to have damage already taken for the tank effect to work unlike the fists of steel. and again the frying pan is just a meme.
Great video! I feel like they shouldn't wreck weapons just to cater to 6's though. For example, the Quickfix is fine, it shouldn't be nerfed to MAYBE be used in a certain comp mode.
I see no problem with having whitelists, the more weapons allowed the better, but sometimes a weapon will simply not work in 6's and shouldn't be mangled for every single TF2 player just to be available for 6's.
Again, SUPERB vid!
DrIvanRadosivic I was referring to 6’s because it is the most popular format and the topic of the video.
Having played all those formats competitively, I feel like what I said stands for all comp game modes, what is your point?
Errrrm, I agree with you that I would prefer weapons not to be unnecessarily nerfed, as I say in my original comment.
Are you sure you are replying to the right thread, your responses are rather odd...
i was afraid i was the only one who was feeling this way, thanks for leaving the comment, yeah its pretty BS they fuck with weapons based on this game mode, if it was soley tweaks based on 6s and such i wouldnt care but its not. i dont see why they think its smart to balance around a mode that isnt the main game, it ovisly doesnt work the same way, like helllo? if the balancing was for THAT format only id be fine but...its not
When you balance around a mode that isnt the main mode people use then it doesnt work, and there are plenty of competent players in regular play (TF2 doesnt get that any new players like it used too, theres alot of veterans) but yes, balance around good players, but make sure it also isnt any kind of bias either, thats realy important
Only if its none Biased and balancing around the actual main game modes >> not some psuedo 6v6
"There's nothing more boring than... sixes." Out of context, but no less accurate.
6s is more entertaining than hl and 7s imo
lyr I forgot 7s exists lol
@@lzi9452 there is also 4s, maybe 2s, but I'm sure there is 4s.
6's is honestly kinda boring for me, I prefer seeing a 9v9 or 12v12 since a lot more shit is happening, if Valve balanced the weapons to make other classes more viable but not un fun to play against with I would probably watch and play more comp
Brian Treves Just play the video game the way you want
30:01 also you can hold beggar's rockets infinitly while with these taunts, and peek out of a small room to delete players
@ned ned And it’s hilarious
When you punch a Spy so hard he just ceases to exist: 11:44
Im dead lmao
Hate it when that happens, I slap someone and them disintegrating from the universe
I don't know why I laughed so hard at that
change the world. my final message. goodby e
Dragon's Fury's damage is not as high as it initially feels. Even if you are perfect, you will deal about the same damage as flames, and less than a Shotgun. It's also loaded with bugs that make it even more unlikely to get good damage out. The only advantage it has is range, but with how unreliable it is and how awful the airblasts are, it is just not worth using.
Also, if the Fury projectile touches a rocket or syringe, it straight up disappears. Soldier counters the Dragon's Fury pretty hard.
I think that one was banned for being buggy more than being op.
wait wait wait, a fucking syringe, like not crossbow but the syringe gun syringes, holy shit that would have been great to know when the weapon first came out and everyone used it
@@sirpumpkinalot6713 It was fixed, if I recall.
Man Owl lol I would hope so, that would give a pretty cool niche role to the syringe gun tho
@@candyman_315 it was _not_ fixed. you can test it in tr_walkway right now, if you want.
What’s the skill in counting Uber? It’s just counting to 40? If the solemn vow is banned for being able to see enemy uber why isn’t spy banned for having this built into his class?
That the reason, spy already have a ability to see enemy health and such so solemn vow is useless, in 6v6 tho, since there are only 6 player and sniper > spy in everyway possible so spy is useless unless you want to waste a player slot just to see the enemy uber or health.
Counting Uber is difficult because there are a lot of different factors to account for. 40 seconds is the average estimated time. You have to consider when the medic is alone, when they are building, or anything else.
The enemy Medic isn't building at maximum rate all the time.
And counting to 40sec might not be difficult, but when you counts Uber, you can be a little distracted , and this distraction can get you killed.
I kind of hate how, to make these weapons fair to sixes players who have a fetish for 5cp, the unique stats that make most of the weapons, well, unique, have to be stripped away. Take the Mad Milk. Its the only weapon of its type to apply an effect that helps your own team get health.
things is, if they kept mad milk and jarate in comp, that would raise the viability of pyros, but NAHH FAM generalists can't deal with that shit so let's send those weapons to the ranch.
@@Junya01 what are you on about? milk and jarate make pyro WORSE overall, not better
@@the_Red_StarWell to me, it seems common sense that if u raise the viability of things pyro can reflect, then naturally, pyro becomes more viable. How do you see things?
@@Junya01 afterburn gets extinguished. and pyro is usually milk fodder, much more than other classes (perhaps other than heavy): he has to put himself close to you, but his flamethrower can't outdamage the milk heal, cause it only does up to 80 DPS.
airblasting jars is a very rare occurence anyways: they have a MASSIVE area of effect, you can usually instantly throw it at your feet or far off to the enemy's side and it'll douse the pyro before he can react.
plus milk and jarate are exceedingly powerful as it is. there's plenty of non-pyro reasons to keep them banned, as woolen said. if they took effort to charge up, (like banners) they'd get unbanned.
Fuck sixes. It's not pure TF2, it's a bare-bones, artificial gamemode with a stale meta. Balance for 12v12 games. That's what TF2 is.
"2 years ago"
Upsetting that this is still completely up to date
Not entirely, Atomizer was unbanned.
@@Nighto was anything else unbanned?
@@ToyFreddyGaming1987 solemn vow is also unbanned.
Scorch Shit and Detonator are now banned. I can understand Scorch things busted, but Deto??
@@kerbonaut2059 Detonator is currently not banned in:
-Etf2l: HL season 25
-RGL: HL season 9
-UGC: HL season 35
Which are all current seasons.
It is still banned in 6s in Etf2l but not in the rest.
Scorch shot is unbanned some seasons of HL in Etf2l and banned on others, although I don't pay much attention to pyros bans, since I main med in HL
I legit listen to this when I want to fall asleep.
This man has the most soothing voice, and that’s a fact jack.
For me, it's that and comp TF2 is so boring
when i was a kid, i always used the machina cause it looked like a lazer
lol
Same.
This is really strange from the perspective of a fighting game player. Fighting game players are so adamantly opposed to bans that they refuse to ban characters even when riddled with glitches like sentinel or overpowered to a point where not choosing the character poses an insurmountable disadvantage. I find that overcoming these impossibly difficult challenges and taking advantage of unintended glitches is what makes fighting games and also speed running incredibly interesting competitive genres. The fact that Tf2 bans weapons for even the slightest advantage, like the cow mangler which isn’t problematic or exploitative at all, is really interesting.
its less of "tf2 bans weapons" and more of "6v6 community", they actively oppose anything and i mean ANYTHING that shows to slow the game down.
@@nikita1911001They should just go play quake instead
I think this sort of thing is why I have never gotten into competitive. My three favorite classes are Pyro, Engineer and Meidc, all support roles in my book. Outside of Highlander which has its own problems, Pyro and Engineer are likely to get you kicked off a team for trying to run outside of very, very specific situations. And Meidc... I love playing medic, but the entire gamemode relies around murdering him. Personally, while I get why the quick fix is banned, to me it's unfair You can still kill a medic under its effects. You have to understand that is giving up the Stock ubercharge, which lets you take no damage for 8 seconds. That's incredibly powerful. But then a weapon comes along that's meant to help medics survive longer, and BOOM banned. These all feel biased towards a soldier, demo or scout getting countered. There isn't anything wrong with running a weapon to counter a class. I run quick fix if my team is struggling and needs health. But apparently that's bad because soldiers and demos have to work harder to kill the medic? People act like medic is allpowerful, but if his team doesn't support him (which happens a lot when fighting starts) he is basically dead. 5CP and 6v6 are incredibly flawed gamemodes and have such a stale meta you can tell how the game will end after MId is capped. Ugh. You can love the games all you want, but banning a weapon for countering splash damage is just ridiculous.
the reason the quick-fix is banned is that it builds uber substantially faster, and since the generalist classes (functionally) can't kill a medic under it's effects (you would need a sniper or some other kind of one-shot), it would be a better choice than stock in 99% of scenarios, and cause the game to be even more steamroll-centric
imo it's a bit of a double standard to ban weapons that do things faster and _also_ ban weapons that slow the game down, but i'm not the guy deciding this stuff lol
@@mrdeadmemesthen why not just have a sniper
6s decisions are so weird to me because the sins of the mode (like a heavy getting to mid) could just be solved with a sniper right?? everyone talks about how powerful he is but thats literally because he's so vulnerable to spy and sniper
@@user-bkey a lot of the decisions that can be solved by running sniper slow the game down to arguably a further degree. both teams now need to run sniper to counter the heavy, both teams now have to watch every sight line because the enemy team is guaranteed to have a sniper and running a second pick class would put you at a disadvantage in the fight
I get 6s is really weird from an outsider perspective, but it's balanced around making scout, soldier, and demo as strong as possible while keeping matches as close as possible. 95% of weapon bans are because of one of these two things.
- disciplinary action allows heavy to get to mid, which shuts down enemy scouts
- short circuit nullifies demo and soldier in last pushes
- soda popper one shots medics, and easy medic kills means an extremely fast game
most weapon bans are justified like this. it can be annoying for someone who wants to play an off-class or use a weapon they like, but luckily highlander exists which allows a lot more freedom for weapon and class roles.
@@mrdeadmemes i see
i can respect 6s decision to base their meta around those classes because it's what they like, but i'm surprised there was so much discussion about how it shouldve been the main comp that tf2 based itself around because it sounds too specialized to actually represent tf2's meta as a whole
@@user-bkey yeah, that's understandable
imo, 6s represents tf2's movement and general strategy, while highlander represents tf2's class dynamics and general gameplay
there used to be prolander, which was an in-between and had a lot of class switching (ie. switch to heavy because there's a pyro in the flank countering your scout), but it's died down off as of late
i feel like trying to balance casual tf2 around 6v6 isnt a good idea, and that comes from some with experience in it. i do agree 6s is too specialized to try and use it as a major balancing factor, especially since weapons are able to be banned
Many of these weapons haven't been tested for quite some time. It seems like people value theory crafting over actual testing, and that's a bit concerning.
Shouldn't things be banned only if they're actually gamebreaking? If we start a precedent that we can ban weapons just because some think they're "annoying" where does it stop?
I'd like to see actual playtesting videos with some of these weapons, talking about why they're broken isn't enough. There's nothing to lose by playtesting these weapons and it's very worrysome more testing isn't being done. There's nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
Every time a weapon gets major changes that alter its core concept, it gets considered and playtested in preseason cups, pugs, and internal double mixes with high level players.
Every time the whitelist is revised, a lot of these weapons are tested so I don’t know what you’re talking about.... lol.
When we say a weapon is “annoying to play against” it doesn’t mean its annoying to die to it or whatever, it means there is little to no counterplay and it slows the game down.
For example, I think Pyro’s are annoying but a scout can easily counter a pyro. I also think the Natascha is super annoying but I can’t do anything against it, there is no counterplay to the slow.
Yea, I mean they keep using stupid statistics. Like when they say "If a medic is using the Quick Fix that heals 140% faster, then you'd have to deal 40% more damage." also when they think Heavy getting to mid is terrible. Like, you know how angered I am because they think that Heavy getting to mid is bad when he doesn't spam explosives. And like the Natasha ban because "Stun/Slow weapons are bad." Even though it scales to how far away you are. Like actually use the god damn thing instead of being a nerd and going all statistical over things you hate to find an ounce of a reason to ban something you hate but be all like "Oh this Soldier banner that literally can give him the same buff as the Mad Milk but also speed just to do damage as SOLDIER is ok because I main him." Biased bans are ridiculous.
That One Guy Lad, you have no idea what you're talking about. Please play 6s before making posts about the 6s meta. A heavy getting to mid quickly would be horrible and it would lead to even slower gameplay and even more projectile spam because soldiers wouldn't be able to bomb in and initiate the actual fight without getting shredded by an already positioned, spun up heavy.
And if people were biased about unbanning weapons on their main classes, soldiers and scouts wouldn't have any banned items because 66% of a 6s team is composed of soldiers and scouts. Mad milk is banned because you have it instantly and it regenerates quickly, banners aren't banned because you don't have them instantly and they take ages to build. 99% of the time, you'll die before getting a charge. The only time they can be run with any sort of consistency is on long second>last stalemates with even Ubers because that's the only time that people play it extra safe and don't die unless they deliberately sac in.
I don't get why you're angry over something that clearly doesn't concern you in the slightest because you very obviously don't play the format, but please don't run around spreading blatant disinformation
That One Guy
holy shit dude what a fine example of the dunning kruger effect you are
"banned because it gets Heavy to mid"
Let's ban teleporter then
That means you need to run an engie which is a detriment to your team
Lets ban walking then too
Teleporter requires resources and setup, Disciplinary Action and Buffalo don't really require much of one
heavy can get to mid a lot easier than they make it out to be. getting heavy to mid isn't some monumental challenge
Ban weapons as well. Its not fair you can get killed just by shooting >:(
you said "its up in the air" twice in your mantreds segment and i refuse to believe that wasnt scripted
basically i got out of this was, if its not fun for the enemy to play against, then its banned. idk how this 6v6 works but if both teams can use the same class and weapon then what the point.
not because anything is inherently broken, just because its "annoying" and "boring" to play against. take a shot everytime he says its annoying or boring and you be pretty sick by the end. literally thats every weapon banned i guess. forgot that it still takes skill to aim and shoot, or i guess it doesnt cause these are banned.
@@volcanicviper5984 What you're missing is this is for money. Which means that it's not just for the players, it's for the viewers. Lot's of the "not fun" weapons (mainly heavy to mid/nat) by extension make games which bore to tears the viewers (or just make them leave). That's why it's not allowed, but for some reason lots in the community have trouble admitting this very valid reason.
@@cinquine1 lol replying from a comment years ago. i dont even play anymore
Uncanny Cancer if you don’t care, delete the comment pussy.
@@leaffinite2001 just for you, I won't.
Holy shit man I haven't heard these touhou bossa nova tracks in like three years, what a trip remembering them. Shibayanrecords was the soundtrack to my teenage years.
I listen to shibayans stuff on loop whenever I'm working
8:25 the reload wasn’t bugged, there used to be a hidden downside of +20% slower reload on the first reload, which eventually got removed.
So essentially all the weapons that are banned are banned because they hinder mobility classes or "make the game boring"?
@Primo Antonius they banned the gas passer because it could go through walls
@Infinite Stratos Being slow is definitely not fun when the heavy has 3 other people on his team with high damage and mobility and the ability can be applied from across the map on top of a defense buff. It also makes it a lot more difficult for flank classes to get picks on a medic since that heavy will most definitely be a part of the combo. This leaves one team down one scout to use one of the best support weapons in the game, while the other team is down a scout to run their own Natascha, or to run sniper just to get an easier pick on one person. I will agree that 6's issue with map rotation contributes to a lot of these problems but things like the Natascha don't just boil down to "I don't like it, the end".
@Infinite Stratos Exactly. Nat punishes aggression, and forces the game into a stalemate. (what do you mean if it's just the heavy alone, unless a team gets wiped he won't be, and without aggression how does a team get wiped?)
This is boring to play for both sides, but more importantly it's painfully boring to WATCH. Viewers are what bring in the sponsorships, so that is a huge deal. All sports leagues make rules to keep the game interesting to watch for spectators. See RGL NR sixes for the result of this: stalemates and shit viewer stats.
@Primo Antonius "Highest skill ceiling"
Sniper would like a word with you mate.
Artie? By making the game boring, he means they encourage stalling and camping. Which prolong the game and turn every match into 2 hour stall fests.
I respect that you went ahead and played with each of those weapons instead of having random gameplay the entire time.
a very good informative video, good job woolen!
Watches this video.
Immediately comes to the conclusion all these weapons are broken.
Starts using them.
"Demo's in a good spot weapon wise"
Cries in Iron Bomber 9x hitbox
It's not 9x
@@Lol-fo2zq Yup. The volume of it is technically 9x larger, but the actual extents and scale of it absolutely aren't.
The Iron Bomber actually have an hitbox that match the model
Meanwhile the stock and Loode Cannon hitbox are so small compared to their model
@@vivelespatat2670 Ironbomber hitbox matching the model is the whole reason it hits people without being near them. Because player hitboxes are way bigger then the actual player, the grenade hitboxes being smaller then the grenade balanced it out and made them only count when hitting the player model.
@@josephg1125 that is not that important tbh. Took people years to figure it out so it is not that significant. Also most demos use iron bomber for the are denial and faster detting
Hey everyone! This was probably the biggest project I've ever put together for youtube, so I hope it turned out well :D!
I also just want to give a big ol thank you to the people who helped me with error checking the stuff in this video, so thanks to bloodis and the rest of the w33bs discord for your help in ensuring that this video isn't just pulled out of thin air (although it would have been a lot easier to do that >:[ )
Also thanks to greybaum and cake for helping me record some bits towards the end!
And last but not least thanks to everyone who left the lovely feedback on the part 1 of this video, which inspired me to spend such a ridiculous amount of time editing this thing together (it would have been very possible to just roughly skim over everything in a live commentary, but i figured it'd be a lot more useful as a proper edited together compilation)
Thank you🙂
a Woolen Sleevelet I love u!
a Woolen Sleevelet good video my dude :D really helpful and insightful 👌
I thought they re-verted the quickfix back to always building at max since they lowered its ubercharge rate.
a Woolen Sleevelet You made a slight mistake on the Fists of Steel part, it was actually equal to 750hp, which was just huge. Great video anyway.
Ricoby nooooooooooooo....... 40% of 450 is 630, nothing wrong with the maths there.... 750 is 66.66% from 450. Don't know what kind of maths your using buddy ;p
The Guillotine ban assumes the Scout can consistently hit a projectile that doesn't come out as you launch it. In theory, it's broken, but on practice, that's only possible for someone who has only played Cleaver Scout since release day.
iirc no-one found it horrific, but the logs of the scouts during the test cups was almost always around a 30% damage increase across the board for everyone, even for those that couldn't really aim it
damn that's a lot
@@awoolensleevelet progectiles that you don't have to aim that well if you toss them into crowds is free and broken? ban krits demo.
Idk if even if they've played since release
Like, idk if I'm just stupid but even when throwing at crowds the hit chance is not very good...
27:57
Oh no, poor Spy disguised as scout.
His disguise was so perfect, and now its ruined!
My only hope is that the weapons they make much more friendly for Comp don't make the wapons un-fun to use outside of Comp. B.A.S.E Jumper/Dead Ringer/(maybe?) atomizer/etc... are weapons I used to love to mess around with. Some other banned weapons like Quick Fix, Fists of steel, disciplinary action, manntreads, etc... I feel should not be in comp. Why have EVERYTHING be for the competitive scene? Why not some for casual? The T H O T T Hand and Holiday punch are clear examples for friendlier variants of heavy/pyro.
Maybe I'm wrong and a huge majority of players (of those who do care) would rather have them all work for comp over casual.
Nah man I’d rather have fun weapons for casual then weapons based for comp. the game will turn into OW where you’re forced to use one load out and one team comp to play, and I fell Tf2 isn’t meant for that.
Because there's people that complain that their favorite weapons aren't allowed in comp.
You keep the fun weapons as is, bit they're getting banned full stop due to their issues. You can't have your cake and eat it as well
Because the tf2 community thinks that competitive shouldn't be competitive. It's almost like people don't realize what a competition is in general. Many tf2 players arent competitive people in general, and that's fine, but just because you want to goof around that doesnt mean you should make fun of people who ARE competitive. How many comp players say that casual should become more serious? None. How many casual players like to shit on comp? Too many to count.
@@FirstNameLastName-hz4kv
"the needs of many outway the needs of the few"
in other words
90% of the comunity plays casual and valve trying to apeal to the 10% who do play comp is just a bad move
I stopped playing Spy altogether when they nerfed Dead Ringer. I find that most of my loadouts are close to stock-standard. This is because everything that isn't stock-standard gets nerfed eventually. So, yes, I do not like how everything is balanced for competitive. It makes things simplistic and uninteresting. Variance will always be in tension with competitiveness, so the ideal thing would be to delineate between high-variance casual mode and low-variance competitive, rather than sacrifice one for the other by combining them into the same.
this video is an absolute masterpiece. fantastic piece of work. massive kudos woolen!
Your dedication is mind-blowing!
I really liked the video , especially the clear and on point explaination . There was no confusion about what you were talking about and each explanation for the ban was well structured. Overall , a nicely executed informative video
I'm really digging the Touhou remixes! Good thing you linked them all in the description
you cheeky rascal, using touhou remixes, i didn't even notice till septtete of the dead princess!
aside from that, enjoyable video to watch and just chill while laying down on a couch or bed, it's also really interesting despite me not knowing *anything* about competitive.
As a TF2 player who enjoys watching TF2 comp but never tried it (for a multitude of reasons), this was a great video to watch to get myself into the competitive mindset and to understand the concept of bans - something I didn't quite understand myself as a non-comp player. However, it made me think about something.
I remember Valve employees thinking that the TF2 comp community, creating an "other version of the game", were "ban[ning] most of the weapons" for their competitive setting. This video undoubtedly proved that this was not the case, however, watching it, I understand why Valve would think such a thing despite it not being true.
For some of the bans, you argued that one of the only ways to get a weapon unbanned would be to see it "nerfed into the ground so that no one uses it". This, to me, was a huge red flag. It actually made me realise that just like there are many weapons that are banned for good reasons, there are also many weapons that, although unbanned, are never used because they are either direct downgrades, boring or not used seriously. This argument actually could be also made for some classes like Spy or Pyro - FUNKe's video about generalists and specialists was a good one to summarise their problems.
Knowing all of this and as a mostly pub player, what I therefore see in comp maybe would be the same thing than what Valve sees: rather than the complete chaos and mosh pits that pubs create, a version of the game with only a tiny fraction of the weapons used, either because the others are banned for the reasons you mentioned or never used for other reasons (a few of which I mentioned), and, to add to that, with 4 classes being run basically 90% of the time. Show this to a completely clueless new player that only has seen pubs, and they might think comp is a watered-down experience (why use less than 50% of what the game offers?) or must not be fun at all because of all the things they don't see. Of course, this may not be true, but this first impression without seeing clips or games or streams, etc. is critical to get new players in.
I perfectly understand that this is not the community's fault: Valve actually has a huge role to play as they did not intend TF2 to be played competitively in such a manner and as such did not balance the classes and weapons enough in the first run to make all of them work in a competitive setting. However, I also therefore do not understand why people would be mad at Valve for "taking their time" to iron out balances and other things crucial for comp, considering all of the variables they have to take into account and the fact they surely put a reduced team on the game, concentrating otherwise their efforts on more popular ones like Dota or CS:GO. The main thing I demand from Valve at this point is to not forget about TF2 and to genuinely try to put efforts in the game: it has a ton of potential and there are few others like it on the market, and a lot of players still have it in their hearts even if they left it. Sure, this may seem hard, but I truly think the effort is worth, especially for a company of their caliber.
This however leaves me with an unanswered question: the percentage of weapons that are unbanned but are never used because of the reasons I mentioned (downgrades, boring, not serious, etc.). To suggest things that would make them more used as to see a little bit more variety in comp would be a nice follow-up video in my opinion... if you have enough courage to make it after such an undertaking for this one video alone!
Good job again and thank you :)
i know it's been four years, but the question about how many weapons aren't used seriously in comp (but are unbanned) made me curious, so i checked the banlist and made a rough percentage;
52/141 (or 37%) weapons are either reasonably used or have a niche, which means 89/141 (or 63%) aren't.
I enjoyed this, good precision in the context of each item, explains how there is almost a balance split between 6v6 and casual, which may never be "fixed" but thank you this helps alot for understanding the game.
30:33 that spy will grow up into a super villian
I’m too tired today to give this a proper viewing but even from the small portions I chose to watch; this is some great stuff.
You’ve outdone yourself Woolen. Didn’t even think I’d necessarily be a fan of this particular topic but you’ve proven me wrongo.
This was extremley informative, I didn't know about alot of these! 10/10 vid
I always bragged about the Sydney Sleeper being the most overpowered sniper in the game... People always said I was a fool... Oh how they will never understand full-team jarate.
Most of the people here talk like they have never played a single game of 6v6 or even highlander in their entire life.
big boi editing work achieved
i've been found out, run away
thank you, though, but give the woolen man some love too
LeCoolFace I've tried. Only put me in a mental hospital.
LeCoolFace "boi" was (and still is) a meme on this channel, Woolen says it to refer to things.
With me being a furry, you can't just stop being what you are.
LeCoolFace I also have ADHD, and multiple other fetishes, as well as insomnia. So, take that as you please.
Great job on the vid, smelly wool man, always love your work and the effort clearly shows!
Also I think the Quick-Fix still charges full speed even when at full buff, but I'm not 100% on that.
That video needs way more views, it's just good to see all the weapons that got banned and why in depth to have general understanding of the 6's gameplay and which kind of problems it has.
24:52 Engies please rotate your teleporters
Great video, you clearly put a lot of work into this.
Wow didnt expect to be 31 mins, this is amazing.
Now you say it scouts weapons seem extremely overpowered lol
This was extremely educational and informational. It gave me so much perspective to the power of the weapons I use in my everyday pubs.
Seriously thank you for making this.
Wow thank you for making this! This was really helpful and informative, i liked all the discussion and the reasons behind each weapon being banned. It was also really thorough
I like listening to reasons why weapons that would be mediocre to terrible in casual are banned in competitive. Granted the skill level of someone using stuff in casual is usually way lower than someone in competitive, but is interesting nonetheless.
Ill be honest, competitive TF2 killed the game for me, they started re working a bunch of fun weapons to basically become useless and mundaene, I used to love running things like Sandman/guillotine combo, and i had tons of fun in casual lobbys, but here comes the Comp front with all their banned weapons, complaining that they should be re worked because they dont like them in comp. EVEN THOUGH TF2 IS A CASUAL GAME?? I've been playing since 2009, but damn, this game used to be so much better back then. Actualy, no i think i only got peevs with 6s now when i think about it. But yeah i think Comp killed it for the casuals "oH bUt PuShInG lAsT iS iNcOnVeNiEnT" honestly, fuck off, keep to your damned ban list instead of ruining it for the rest of us.
Yeah.
ah yes, the good ol' sandman "fuck you" guillotine combo, because being unable to retaliate against a scout and eating a proyectile that could one shot 8/9 classes was fun to play against/s.
Also, most casual games are competitive if you didnt notice by now, due the mechanics being fun to play with, so tf2 being competitive is more likely because it is a casual game.
*stun mechanic supporter*
I agree. I actually think esports in general tends to ruin a lot of games. You can no longer just style on people by using options that aren't viable, and everybody desperately wants to be a team captain all because they saw one pro game and think they know "the strats."
The Jarate's ability to extinguish players is pretty much why I run it as a sniper. Everybody looks at the Jarate and only thinks it is reserved to edgelords who think they can chain slay all days only to be the reason why they die easily. And then you can just do the most useful usage by saving your teammates from a certain lethal burn.
Banning it due to something notorious for not happening is rather questionable at best.
Great and well done video, lots of quality and effort is clearly put into this thank you.
Oh my god, thank you so much! I couldn't find this online, so you're a miracle worker.
they banned the solem vow
what about the ubersaw
cause the saw is a no brainer and it actually makes sense
Solemn Vow lets you have a precise health number on your enemies and it would make it too easy to say to the roamer to bomb a certain class, because he's really weak and a guaranteed kill if the roamer lands a rocket on him. Ubersaw gives you 20% uber for a melee hit and in 6s, you would be a fool to sprint into a medic and feed him uber like that. The Ubersaw lets a medic capitalize on the enemy's mistakes, which is easily fixable by attacking the medic from a distance. Most of the time a medic would just surf an explosion away into safety and run, instead of fight, so there's no reason for the Ubersaw to get banned at all.
The uber saw isn't actually that good in comp, because the medic almost never melees.
The solemn vow would be awful, and that's speaking as a medic caller.
The ubersaw is *THE META* so they can’t touch it
Solemn Vow isn’t banned cuz it’s OP. If you’re a good medic you’re already counting Uber. It’s just boring and lowers the skill ceiling of playing medic by a ridiculous degree.
another sitouational downside of the dragons fury is it fires projectiles, so a good airblast pyro can completly counter you
it fires far faster than a pyro can reflect, and it barely damages the pyro you reflect it at unless you reflect multiple shots in a row.
Thank you so much for making this!
This video has really helped me lots, I've recently been getting into 6s and Highlander and I just want to thank you for this, even though you probably won't look at this, I just want to thank you.
Thanks
@@awoolensleevelet no problem, glad to help :^)
That was great! Very informative.
24:37 is that spy t-posing as he fades out of existence
Nope.
He was A-posing
crazy this was part of my childhood, I was 12 when I watched this video (multiple times) most kids get nostalgic over playing with friends, going to the beach, playing outside, etc, but I get nostalgic over competitive tf2 (specifically highlander spy)😭
Excellent, thank you for making this!
Woolen mate. this here deserve so much respect. great job.
6s is an awful game mode played only on cp maps encouraging only 2 classes soldier and scout bringing demo and medic out of necessity.
I'd view a nicer game mode something like highlander having 1 of each class guaranteed brings alot of those fun interactions between classes.
I do not agree that 6s is awful, as I think it has the highest skill ceiling out of all competitive modes and allows players to work together in a more controlled environment. Although I think that Highlander is a lot of fun, I think the games tend to be a lot messier and harder to spectate and cast.
generally, 6s is fine, its more the 6s community.
it's mainly due to 12v12 doesn't translate to 6v6 well. Shit like Wrangler, Vac and such are too OP. MrSlin made a great video about how it's not 6s fault, but rather it's the 5cp game mode that's to blame since stalemates are so common and encouraged.
Except Highlander is a stalemate fest, each team waiting on one of the snipers to kill the other so they can move forward, classes like pyro and spy are almost completely useless to the point where you might as well not even have 1 of every class. Not to mention the classic problem of having 18 players is a pain for competitive games. I like highlander but it's a meme format.
Most of the gamemodes are very stalemate-y and just not good for comp in general
Quick thing about the fists of steel: The overheal cap only applies if the medic begins healing you while you are holding it.
I found this informative, and the presentation was nice. I'm getting back into TF2 after years away and it's cool that it's still alive.
I was a huge fan of the Natascha post Gun Mettle and thought the nerf post MyM was already enough to clear the Natascha from the whitelist. Apparently not, set plans to nerf heavy more so he is now less viable in competitive and heck casual. The same can be said for the fists of steel, it's pretty balanced in casual but 6s are crying foul of a weapon of a class only played 0.5% of an entire 6s match, because of this, Valve nerfs the weapon to the ground, and then no one uses them. Don't get me wrong, some weapons nerfs like the GRU in jungle inferno we justified and I'm happy to see it removed from the whitelist, but the whitelist also contains weapons that are literal downgrades and no one uses them because Valve neutured the weapon to compensate for 5CP 6s, in turn make the weapon less appealing for everyone. It's gone from the whitelist but what's the fucking point, it's bad even in casual use due to the nerf hammer.
Not trying to blame anyone, but still......
Didnt the video explain that it got buffed in a way that may be unintentional and a bug, thus making it stronger than it was? In the video it was also explained that fists of steel is in a position where it may be unbanned soon. Also, you have to realize that if a heavy was able to completely halt half the enemy team so they inevitably eat damage from your teammates and all die in 1 second, that the % of how much hes used would jump up pretty significantly.
All the match would ever revolve around with natascha would be: laser the guy that appears in heavy's line of sight with a minigun, he cant move, he eats rockets and grenades from across the map no matter what he was planning to do. And then you have both teams doing that because its too good. I think its pretty easy to agree that its not very good for the game no matter what warm feelings you have towards it. All other miniguns are unlocked anyway, dont know why you have to be so attached to something singular so much.
@@foundati0n Because it s fun and attracted more people, while only minority plays 6s. Fact kills story
@@franagustin3094 What is fun? Being shot by a natascha? I dont think so. Using natascha? Pretty arguable, and mostly if you like ruining fun for other people.
Broken weapons attract more people? No, they actually make pub games turn into stalemates and make all people in the community more angry.
In every game the competitive community is a minority, so that never changes anyway.
So there's some facts for you.
@@foundati0n No, in cs go and overwatch, casual is competitive. Lol too, and are you scared of natasha? Yeah, because it makes problems to scunts. Also, pub games in tf2 are more popular than 6s, where the same teams always plays. Another fact is that 6s is bad that Valve will not waste money in a format that majority of tf2 players don't like. It's stupid to do that
@@franagustin3094 this is a viewkey for a video: v=UGrGqNQNNps
why are 6s players completely ignoring the downsides of these weapons and assume that every player is going to use them perfectly?
@@MatF1 huge threat to what? there shouldn't be a list in the first place. the list is what made valve ruin a bunch of weapons for 99% of the playerbase
@@melc311Valve have never listened to comp players when balancing their weapons. Give me a solid proof if you think otherwise.
@@OwO-vy2mg Razorback and Base jumper were both nerfed specifically due to complaining comp players. The base jumper nerf was understandable even if it was never really that popular, while the razorback was and still is one of the worst items in the game.
@@kiwionly9139 Yeah these 2 were nerfed cuz of comp players, i didn't know it at the time. The razorback nerf was fine though
That was a very interesting watch. Thanks a lot!
Amazing informational video! Thanks!
30:34 that godamn spy
Can we have a video on why the weapons that are allowed are actually allowed pls :)))
do not do this to me hat kid
It was just a joke aaaaaaaaaaaa
Weapons that benefit the meta classes without specifically countering the meta classes are allowed.
+Lilybun So why is Atomizer banned? It benefits a meta class without countering specific classes.
I know. But I was saying why Lilybun's rule wasn't exactly the best rule since there are many exceptions.
Amazing work, thanks bunches!
Very interesting video ! Great work !
This is a very well made video, to someone who does not play tf2 at all there is enough context and explanation in the video to understand what he's talking about
>Enjoying the video
>Get like 29 minutes in
>... Wait... Is that septette playing in the background?
>check description
>HOW DID I MISS ALL OF THESE?!?
Great taste in music though. Bravo.
It's too bad that the channel that has those songs is terminated.
Good vid. Wasn't a fan of competitive TF2 but the decision making on the ban list entries were super interesting.
Awesome video! Would love to see a part 3 :D
"because it makes last push impossible stalemate blah blah"
Also, good vid boi.
rescuse ranger and wrangler : *get banned*
every engineer main in the distance: *sad texas noise*
Thank you for making this!
Very well made. Great video!