How the Show Ruined Criston Cole As A Character in House of the Dragon
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Did you know Criston Cole, The Kingmaker was a much more interesting character in the books? This video explores the reign of King Viserys as told to us in the book Fire and Blood, a prequel novel by George R. R. Martin in his A Song of Ice and Fire fantasy series that covers the first half of Targaryen rule in Westeros.
A Game of Thrones differences explained, prepare for The Winds of Winter release date with a theory video of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire book series and something to think about while waiting for HBO's House of the Dragon Season 2.
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Probably my biggest problem with the show was how they strayed from Criston in the books.
Criston is not really different in F&B than he is on HOTD. He turns on Rhaenyra and suddenly sides with Alicent in both (F&B just doesn't narrow down what happened between them). He kills Lord Beesbury in both (the manner of death has multiple possible versions in F&B, but he killed him, regardless). He kills Laenor's paramour Joffrey in both (again the manner of death differs, but he killed him, regardless). You have to remember that the book is an UNRELIABLE "historical account" told from different people's "memories" and, in many cases, their versions are said to be unreliable, possibly skewed to make one side or the other look better or to make themselves look better. The book therefore is NOT canon. The show, on the other hand, is us watching the events unfold firsthand. If either is canon, it's the show.
You also to remember that F&B is canonically inaccurate. George himself said the show is how things actually happened
@@andyrihn1that's a lie, George Martin and Ryan Condal did a recent interview where they both said "the Book is the true story, and the Show is a different version where Ryan and the other writers are going to show their version of the Book"
@@carastone3473you kidding? Ryan Condal himself has already said that the show is his and the writers' version of how the story is, and the book is written by George Martin himself, we don't even need to argue about which of the two is Canon, right lol the book is the original material and written by the author GRRM who also said in an interview that the book and the series are two different versions of the same story, that is the Book is his version, and the series is a story based on his book where Ryan condal will show his version, the show is NOT canon
@@carastone3473its still is not as good, he is painted as somewhat grey in the books so is daemon. The way they do things is important to show more depth in their character, the show should have kept more material from the books to make these characters better or more complex. Imo the whole show is canon book is not is kinda dumb grrm said they are both cannon.
The fact that Criston murdered a dude in the middle of a wedding in front of everyone like the fucking Homelander was probably the worst part.
I know that was so annoying, that and Rhea's murder. It's like they decided to just artificially up the drama with blatant murders
@@revanius2213 Wasn't Rhea's death narrated from a 3rd party, like most of the book, so it involved allot of uncertainty?
@@arnigeir1597 Daemon was in the Stepstones again when she died and she died over a period of several days where she was awake for at least part of it and finally died when she got up and collapsed again. It was only then that Daemon arrived in the Vale.
@@revanius2213 well, at least the show gave us the divorce rock meme.
That's because Christon is a whore. He says it himself in the show so it must be true.
Also him committing murder at the wedding was really uncalled for. The actual matter happens in a tourney in the books and things like that simply happen tourneys yknow instead of at an actual wedding
Yes, it was really weird in the series. Like, if someone, especially a Kingsguard, just randomly murders a man (who was a knight of a prominent family) and assaults the new Prince Consort, on said Consort's and Heir's wedding... He should have been executed, or the very least sent to the Wall.
So true!
@@emikusz - guess that doesn't happen when you have Queen Alicent in your corner...
@@carastone3473 I wish we didn't get that time jump right after, then at least we could have seen how did she managed to save him. It's still would be a wtf moment, but better than what we have now.
@@emikuszthere would have been no saving him. It was a marriage of the only 2 houses of dragon riders... the 2 most powerful in the realm. Best case (and it is slim) for him is the wall. Probably torture then death is MUCH more likely.
Worst part of the season? Criston killing Joffrey Lonmouth without hard consequences.
That Rhaenys scene is definitely worst part of the show by a country mile.
@@bruhhh._.150 yeah right. I forget.
But if we talk about Criston's worst moments...
@@bruhhh._.150The cringe I felt was otherworldly.
@@bruhhh._.150which Rhaenys scene?
@@pepeedge5601 Enter the Dragon... from the basement... through the floor... with the girlboss Rhaenys on his back... everything at once + a lot of smallfolks killed in the process.
Sir Criston really stopped being a character in the 2nd half of the season
I dunno. I think by episode two he stopped
He's still there. How do you figure he stopped being a character.
Sure if generic love interest for the princess is your definition of "character" Cole only really started being semi interesting mid season, before he was literally just a hot bodyguard
Bro they turned him into an incel whining about how the princess took advantage of him😭
What about his rape ?
Christian Cole killing someone in a wedding, when everyone were watching, is the thing that has less coherence in the show... Don't know what happened there, everybody realized what happened however he is still there.
It actually makes more sense thematically. The ENTIRE POINT is to show how the truth depends on who has authority. Alicent says it was fine so it was fine. It is a direct foreshadowing of what the entire show is about.
It’s amazing how critical people manage to be while being completely oblivious to the point being made.
@@rickyrobby8133ikr. I mean, asoiaf doesn't really portray hands or kings having absolute power. But they are easily prone to being assassinated, executed, usurped, overthrown, etc. Absolute power when it comes to these authoritarian figures, are as absolute until the plot demands it otherwise. Ned shouldn't have gotten fucked over at ALL. The hand has the SECOND most power, behind the king himself, Ned wields a ton of influence after the rebellion, and everyone was just watching cersie commit treason, lol. The king's words mean jack shit until it matters. Characters that shouldn't have that much power, have way too much power over those who SHOULD. Feudalism in Westeros, along with their monarchial system of governance, is fucked to the max. A crown does make you the most powerful person, but not one king has ever decided to use his absolute authority to take from the other houses, or even reduce their power. Since they're LITERALLY THE KING. So all this is probably why people don't like criston in the show, they forgot what absolute power means.
@@rickyrobby8133 No it doenst make any sense.
The Velaryons are the biggest house beneath the Throne. Their son and heir does marry. They are very very very important in this moment and could just say: Kill this dude or we will go home unmarried.
Viserys wouldnt listen to his *****, he would please his allys just like he allways does. Criston Cole should be dead or should run for his life.
@@rickyrobby8133the way you go about making a point in a story has to make sense else you are just telling a terribly written story
@@mesa577 I just explained that not only does it make sense it’s an EXCELLENT example of visual story telling.
My biggest issue with the show is just how many of the characters on the side of the Greens were turned from characters making deliberate choices with conviction, to just sort of oops their way into a conflict. Instead of Cole being a guy with nerve and steel making decisions of his own, they just turned it into an accident. It really ruins the character’s agency. I much prefer villainous character with will and conviction than a somewhat morally grey character who’s just having a lot of oopsies. Give me a strong willed character any day.
Seriously I hate that they made many character “miss understood” and “unfortunate circumstances “
Yeah it botched the conflict, arguably the greens are just as evil as the Lannister side while less interesting and charismatic. The show also failed in my opinion to make the blacks and less sympathetic and interesting as the starks
This book is all rumored but show is canon
@@kimiko6732The show is not canon, GRRM himself said as much. Yes, some of the things in the book were sensationalized by the Maesters but there were facts (like Alicent’s age when she married Viserys) that the show just completely disregarded
exactly, even alicent, it's made to seem like she was all nice and wanting unity and other crap when she was as much an instigator as cole was.
These Targaryens are meant to be Brats, Rhaenyra and Aegon are both entitled Brats fighting over their toys. The fact that they make Rhaenyra “the good one” defeats the purpose of Dance. It is a warning against self-righteousness, and should stay that way. Rhaenyra being the more level headed compared to Daemon is crazy. Yes Daemon is violent, but not randomly so. His actions are calculated and done for specific reasons, he’s also the voice of reason that keep Rhaenyra in check. For Aegon, it was Cole since Alicent’s too focused on the safety of her children (probably due to cole’s influence planting the Paranoia in her mind). These Targaryens should be Marionette being played by others, another warning to Targaryens not to trusting other houses with their affairs.
Rhaenyra IS the good one. Argue with George. He is the one that writes her to make stupid mistakes to get killed instead of a simple siege to King's Landing.
She's good one... now. I hope they make them (Rhaenyra and Aegon) grey with a lot of dark side as it should be.
Still, law is on her side.
@@guisas123 No, she is a spoiled Brat raised to be materialistic pick me up girl by her father. She is literally hot-headed and stubborn in the book, demanding the heads of her siblings for usurping the throne. Neither of them are good or evel, just people forced to do things due to circumstances, and vultures taking advantage of the uncertainty. Chaos is a ladder, and we have House Velaryon and House High Tower on either side trying to climb up to the station they never meant to be in, in process damaging House Targaryen.
@@AlexS-oj8qf"demanding the heads of her siblings for usurping the throne" Who said she wanted that to happen?
@@postpunk6947That must be a very funny and arbitrary definition of law. The law is on her side about as much as it was on the side of Cersei and Joffrey
They ruined him and aegon , i really liked the book version more
Aegon was rumoured to be a rapist in the book too
@@hi-ls6lt still has his moments in the book
@@hi-ls6ltd yet the scene was created at the last moment even the actor of Aegon did not agree.
There were also rumors that Daemon likes to take maiden virginity and yet they didn't show it on the show.
@@hi-ls6lt By the most untrustworthy source.
@@Daughter-of-PalestineOk? Aegon was also rumored to be a rapist and have relations with a 12 year old from mushroom someone who is undeniably a untrustworthy source which is the whole point of the dance and that’s that no one is actually good because no one really agrees on what happened which I hate because it gives the writers of the show the ability to show their biases more (which is evident in the show for tb)
As the showrunners will say to justify every bad decision they’ve made: “history is unreliable”
So we need to feel sorry for Alicent like we did for Cersei even though theyre very unlike their book counterparts, we need to feel bad for Aemond bc he didn’t mean to kill his nephew when he flew after him on a dragon, and we need to overlook Rhaenys killing innocent people for no reason
It isn't the showrunners saying that the book is unreliable. It's the actual author of the book himself. I think we can trust him on his own story.
@@jedimasters1462the writers are picking their favorites though, for example they cut out the whole tourney wedding of rheanera we can't really say everything is done under the gaze of grrm and how he really intended the story to be shown in actuality. The show has budget limits and writers have biases, and thats why grrm said there are TWO cannons not just one they have simplified the characters for convinience.
(There are multiple accounts of the wedding tourney of rheanera and leanor so IT should have happened but it didn't)
@jerichopagtama8711 They are still getting all thr approvals from GRR Martin, whom does understand budget restrictions and how hard filming certain things are.
To be honest, my only real problem with the show was that they made the Velaryons black without explaining how the Targaryens, whom do have Velaryon blood, are not black.
@@jedimasters1462 As far as I know all writers (but tolerate their works being adapted even Alan Murr who is famous for criticising his adaptations and refuses to profit from them.
The Witcher's writer was also supportive of the series even though is much worse than the books and it's authors make fun of them, writers are just glad to see their work adapted and don't want to blow bridges which is totally valid.
We didn't see any dead body there
So it's not confirmed if Rhaenys killed anyone there
Many were hurt though
Cole was right. Daemon would have killed all of the green children
Daemon would have killed all of the greens without a second thought.
Not a chance… They were Targs… It’s Otto he hated.. Edit: His brother’s children
@@alexmartin3143 He cares more about them being Otto's grandchildren, than his kin.
And ? What’s wrong with that ?
@@deviliciouspanda2430why not kill rhaenyra's bastards instead lol
Call me crazy but rhaenyra’s bastard on the throne would’ve started a war.
How? And how does starting a war by usurping help in anyway?
@@Dinglehoppers779bastards in this world have no claim to land or title. There are literally thousands of people who have no claim to family inheritance because of this law. Holding the common man to a standard you don’t uphold is a recipe for disaster. Giving your bastards the keys to the monarchy would be a HUGE mistake. Or do you not remember the literal chaos that occurred in this exact world when rumor spread that Joffrey was illegitimate?
@@Dinglehoppers779 At least Aegon's sons would've been saved if the tragedies didn't follow.
@@Papaty25 What? How?
@@Dinglehoppers779 If Maelor reached Oldtown and B&C didn't happen and Jaehaera wasn't killed.
With how good daemon and viserys were. It's sad how much season 1 warped the story to try and make alicent more important when they ping pong her story
Alicent is so completely irrelevant in the show compared to the books. She does nothing, makes no choices, has no agency, and has no personality. In the book she was an epic, legendary villian we all loved to hate.
@@chrisrubin6445that could also be because the book is finished and the show isn't lmao
@@onigiri2032 I mean all of her major character moments have already happened in the show, from here Alicent's story is mostly over, besides slowly going mad as everyone she ever loved died brutal deaths.
@@chrisrubin6445
Show Alicent has made choices. Even small things like getting Otto kicked from court by counciling Viserys, keeping Criston at her side, speaking to Aegon about his future if Rhaenyra wins, etc
Also, the stereotypical "evil stepmother" trope that happens in the books is... well, to each their own
@@thalmoragent9344 They took out ALL of her largest moments of agency from the book. They removed her being a cunning political operator, who plans coups years in advance, and changed her into a passive victim. I prefer female characters who have plans and goals to ones who just sit back and get abused. Also why book Sansa is better.
The biggest problem that the showrunners is creating is their efforts to paint one side as being "good guys" and the other side as being "bad guys" but GRRM didn't write about either side that way. The showrunners have changed many aspects of both sides in order to make the Red's appear to be completely innocent and any acts of violence they commit on the Green's is solely a response to being attacked by them. The truth of the matter, according to GRRM's own words from the books, is Rhaenyra is not the innocent victim the show is portraying her to be.
This argument is strange, because barely anything has changed in Rhaenyras character, in the book she is actually seen as a very likeable generally nice human being until the war starts, and it all just goes downhill when she officially takes the throne ( also saying that the blacks are completely innocent is strange in and of itself, Damon is a man who murdered his previous wife, while courting the affections of a minor who also happened to be his niece, he started a war for his own power, and then murdered the messenger that came to tell him his brother was going to help with that war, the only innocent ones in this conflict are technically the children, and even Jace cut out his half-brother's eye, Rainier will get worse, she's already starting to get worse cuz she kind of used her son's death as a pretext to try and murder aemond (though I'm not trying to downplay her grief in that) she has now unwittingly had a child murdered, so you can still blame her for that, because she gave Damon too much room to operate, she didn't say, "either you kill Damon or you don't kill anyone, he is my Target and I will have your head if you so much as harm a hair on anyone else's head"I would say she's going to descend further into grief-stricken madness and paranoia, I believe it will all come together in the end where you'll realize even in the house of the dragon they're truly are no good people)
@@dragansnyder2786 Nah this a lie, in fire & blood all we can really get from rhaenyra is she can be like cersei. The only saving grace for her is her three strong boys are good people.
@@MegaEmperorking I mean you don't get the small folk rising up in your name because of how you were as a kid if you were a bad person, (because I'm pretty sure that in fire and blood they talk about how the small folks started to fight for rhanera because they remembered her as the realms delight (which at least to me would imply that they remembered her as a good person back when she was a princess) and the comparisons to cersei are there but there's at least one thing that makes rhanera a little bit better than cersei (if only slightly) at least based on her body count she never really manipulated anyone for politics, if anything I think she just picked strong as a lover so that she could keep having kids and keep her line strong, but again though I think it wasn't solely political, she picked the man she wanted to have sex with and she had sex with him (can we're talking her actual body count because I think fire and blood basically tells us that, no matter the interpretation of the events she never actually slept with Kristen Cole, at least if I'm remembering it correctly)
@@MegaEmperorking but in the end arguing about it is kind of pointless because it's a book written like a historical document that is being written hundreds of years after the events it tells, add to that the fact that most of the sources for the dance of the dragons are outright called out as dubious (some of them because they might have been wanting to rehabilitate their image, and another because he is a drunken horny dwarf who writes down every bit of Court gossip as if it's true) so really a lot of the nitty gritty humanizing details are left up to the interpretation of the showrunners (because yes we know the big picture, we know how a lot of the battles went, but we don't really KNOW a lot of the back room politics)
My biggest problem with the the show is the lack of insight into how dangerous of a life Aegon and his siblings would have under Rhaenyras rule . Any petty lord who had some conflict with her could easily proclaim Aegon as king and considering people like Daemon exist who wouldn’t blink an eye to murder his own nephews it’s sure as hell that they wouldn’t be safe at all
Once he killed Beesbury I hated him with a bitterness
That death was Final Destination levels of stupid and ridiculous. I think Criston just got the short end of the stick as far as writing goes. Blame the writers not the character.
@@KingSlayer_.it was only topped by aemond accidentally killing Jayce. It is so dumb that all these major event happen by accident.
Allicent only starts the war because she misuderstands Viserys
Cole kills beesbury by accident
Aemond kills Jayce by accident
Its so unbelievably stupid and unnecessary, let people be evil on purpose.
@@lucasbrant9856 Aemond killed Luce and I think the changes make it more interesting. It shows that they don't have true control over the dragons. As for viserys and alicent, because Alicent also sat at the deathbed of King Jaehaerys and just like Viserys he mistakes her for his daughter. The other one doesn't really matter because even if was an accident Cole doesn't care that he killed him. Though it is brilliant writing for the other two.
@@lucasbrant9856accidentally? oh noo he chased luc with vhagar intending to injure in some way. and "injury" in the air on dragons equals death.
@adib3011 It was by accident, he's 17 and was just being a stupid teenager. Aemond didn't kill Jace, Vhagar was attacked by Vermax and so she killed him and by proxy killed Jace. Aemond tales some of the blame but really the show runners are just trying to make the main characters more sympathetic and likeable to the book counter parts. They just didn't quite do that with Criston.
Actually, in the books Grand Maester Orwyle, who was present during the events claimed that Ser Otto had Lord Beesbury arrested and confined to the black cells where he died of a chill. The claim that Ser Criston slit his throat was made by Septon Eustance who was not at the meeting.
Orwyle is a straight Green though, so he was always going to glaze their worst deeds.
@@Neil-qg9cw and that's the ambiguity the show missed by making everything so pro-Rhaenyra and turning the Greens into unhinged evil dumbos.
Even the nerfed Criston Cole we saw in the show was still a badass. Disappointing that they ignored most of Cole’s redeeming qualities but at least we got to see him defeat Daemon, crown Aegon, kinda act like a father figure to Aemond and turn a man’s face into ground beef with his bare fist
I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the showrunners because a) the book is very difficult to adapt and b) there are many many retcons that changes how we view the characters, especially in the case of Criston.
He had one job, put the crown on Aegon, and they didn't even let him do that
@@senoritasulod4829But he did?? If you rewatch Aegon's coronation, you can see Criston putting the conqeror's crown on his head. They made sure to keep that at least.
@@senoritasulod4829 Yeah I went back and rewatch the scene, HE DID DO THAT! Really odd thing to criticize lol
I’m glad the title of your video is how the show ruined Cole’s character because that is exactly what they did in my opinion
Yes, that is why thats the title
@@leonbriski5929 touché 😂😂
GRRM was a producer on the show and had executive power. this was his project. dunno what people mean by ruined lol
@@broderickfall book cole write good. Show cole write bad. Understand what they mean by “ruined” now?
@@Chadius_Thundercockhonestly this is the most confusing debate we could have, because the person who wrote the books, is working on the show, and he's trying to help provide a more concrete narrative than the book does (the people who treat the book as scripture in this case kind of frustrate me, you get pissed when someone's character is ruined when you don't really know what their character was, because we don't know for certain any of the complexities in the book we are only told accounts that people think happened, or that would make people who experience them actually look good, they don't have concrete characterizations to ruin, by contrast a lot of the things that Kristen does in the books might not have actually happened that way, he might not have blatantly crowned aegon, and for people that say he wouldn't give us the wrong information, he wrote this book with the express purpose of showing that writers of history can lie, so it's possible that cole played an important role in the coup that made aegon King,( which he did in the show, he essentially scared everyone at the small council into submission by killing Limon beesbury and secured the Prince when the coup was underway, though he did have help in that but that's how it goes)
Criston Cole’s Kingmaker Speech is so based 💯. Team Green
Cole wasn't lying the minute his wife became Queen. Daemon would have went to work and killed all of them.
Daemon doesn't look like a kinslayer
He only killed Jaehaerys after Luke was killed
He's not a good person but he too restrains himself from kinslaying unnecessarily
@@sanjaykarthicks1226 Throughout history it was common when for a new King or Queen to exterminate any potential rival including their own family as they would always be seen as a potential figurehead and rallying point for any opposition. It's simply too dangerous to keep them alive.
@@jonsouth1545 yeah but I'm talking about Daemon and Rhaenyra particularly. Rhaenyra would definitely not do that and Daemon wouldn't do that as it would kickstart a war.
@@sanjaykarthicks1226 Who's Jaehaerys?
@@aditisk99 helaena and Aegon's son
"Did you know Christian Cole was actually an interesting character..." 💀💀💀
More like annoying
To be fair he's cool in the show as well imo.. he's consistent.. but of course Daemon and Rhaenyra fanboys choose to be blind
@@rias.gremoryyy people are entitled to their opinions . They refuse to see the good side of him just like you refuse to see the bad
@@merykhan97 oh I see the bad side of him, but it's overshadowed by the fact that he's consistent to his beliefs, which are good.. Rhaenyra and Daemon on the other hand are just like Jaime and Cersei in the beginning of GoT.. and people are fanboying over them just because they're badass😭😂.. Rhaenyra committed treason, punishable by death, Daemon would've been executed ages ago if the king actually did his job, Vyseris is probably one of the most incompetent kings in the history of Westeros
@@rias.gremoryyy I literally can't understand why would anyone be fanboying over Daemon or Rhaenyra. Like no clue, to the point that I never experienced this level of dumbfoundness when it comes to the some movie
The fact that he offered to one V three not for his life but his men’s lives and they shot him under a peace banner infuriated me
HotD is a great show but a terrible adaptation and I will die on this hill.
That's how GOT started
Why is it a terrible adaptation?
@@TJ-fe7rr a lot of the nuance and/or agency was taken from a lot of character. Rhaenyra was just as vicious as any Targaryen even before she lost her sons. She was the one who ordered the tongues be removed of those who questioned her sons' legitimacy, not her father or Daemon. The legitimacy of her children is debated in the ASoIaF world, because Rhaenyra has dark haired relatives on her Arryn side and Rhaenys Targaryen has black hair because of her Baratheon mother. Plus, Aemma's hair color was never confirmed in the books. Rhaenyra doesn't want to be queen to better the realm, she wants to be queen because she has been told her entire life that it is her birth right and she's entitled to it. When Viserys died, Alicent imprisoned the servant who told her to make sure no one found out and proceeded to(along with Criston Cole) stage a coup against Rhaenyra. Alicent was the one leading the small council and was very much aware of lords desires to put Aegon on the throne, but the show has reduced her to a perpetual victim with no agency. Criston is called the Kingmaker in the books because he's the one who convinced Aegon to take the throne, claiming that if he didn't, he and his full siblings would be put to the sword. Criston had just as much of a part in making Aegon a crowned king, but the show made it to where it was just Otto and Alicent. He even says something along the lines of, "Seven save us if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne," referring to Jacaerys. Aegon wasn't a r*pist and was only rumored to have bastards. His entire character was about a person who genuinely didn't want power, getting it, and that power corrupting them. Aegon's actor said that he wanted the fans to be split 50/50 between the Greens and the Blacks, but that is impossible with how terrible the show has made Aegon. And that's my main problem with HotD. It has elevated the Blacks onto a pedestal while making the Greens as unsympathetic as possible and taking away from the actual debates people could've had about who was more deserving of the Iron Throne or who was better suited. They've turned Rhaenyra into a girlboss while making Aegon literal scum.
@@lizethvillavicencio8344 The reason you believe Rhaenyra to be vicious, is because in the book Fire & Blood different people's opinions said she was. The book isn't like ASOIAF, where we see different characters pov. It's told from a unaccountable Maester's perspective. GRRM has spoken about how history can be warped. The tv show is meant to be the true events of what happened.
@@TJ-fe7rrStop spreading this lie. GRRM has said the show isn't canon. He actually said it's the writers' take on it. So if anything, it's vastly more unreliable than the perspective of in-universe characters.
You're really trying to claim that the actual events taking place on Aegon's coronation isn't him flying Sunfyre, but Rhaenys popping in on her dragon, killing a few hundred innocents through collateral damage, looking all girlboss at Otto, Alicent and Aegon who just stand there crying like bitches, and then flying off having done nothing but be a girlboss and kill scores of innocents?
Totally agree with this. I think in the first 5 episodes he was finde, just the scene with joffrey was stupid. But in the last episodes he is just an boring character with 0 personality and just allicents bloodhound
Still love his character in the show, it sucks when u get your heart broken.
true!! and not even just his heart bro, like he broke his oath to sleep with her and when he asked her to run away with him because his honor as a kingsguard was ruined, she brushed him off like he was nothing to her. i'm pretty sure that would make anyone bitter
He was a simp
@@foggy_sheep she doesn't owe him anything lol 😂 he choose to have s*x with her and when she doesn't want to give up the crown for him, he complained like a little btch. Fck crispin cole
Brother if you were rhaenrya would you choose some guy over your throne, family and dragon?
@@grandmabecky7984Possibly, but more importantly, I'd ask myself that question before abusing my power over him and raping him.
Hills Alive Channel does a really good video on Cole's character. Actually, she has a lot of good takes. Worth checking her out.
Criston cole in the books is probably one of the main if not the main contributor to the war even starting. As the video above explains he crowns aegon, tells him shit that’s not true and just generally manipulated a lot of people within the greens inner circle which is actually kinda upsetting that they changed that for Larys who doesn’t have nearly as big a role in the book.
It kinda works for the show but I don’t see why Larys couldn’t be the weirdo he’s been, while playing his own game behind everyone’s backs, especially Criston who like I said should be one of the main catalysts for the war starting on the greens side.
He's also the finest warrior in the dance but in the show Daemon and Aemond are apparently better than him.
Basically, Crispin is even more of a douche in the books, but that's still more interesting than show Crispin.
He's actually smart and ruthless in the book, in the show they turned him into some manchild lol
he was also very ambitious and had a lot of fight scenes cut out. and in the book he dominated daemon, he didn't hit him in the back.
the show makes the blacks better than what they were in the book and the greens worse than they were in the book.
It feels like any historical movie about ancient historical figures that were described as awful people while the "righteous" ones as the good ones
Show always need to have the 'good guy bad guy' dynamic. Even tho GRRM never writes good guy bad guy.
Things wrong with this:
1) his kingmaker speech was removed, but his sentiment of calling Rhaenyra a whore was kept entirely
2) in fire and blood, the death of Lord Beesbury has multiple explanations. The mentioned death is only one of them.
3) while yes, his importance in Aegon's ascension is reduced in the show, we also get to see a far more interesting and flawed character than the hints of a character we get in the book.
I believe Criston's show counterpart is far, far more interesting, as he's portrayed as more or less of an insecure thug who uses knighthood and chivalry as an excuse to behave in the most depraved ways.
I think Cole’s wedding murder scene was to reinforce that he was mostly untouchable. Viserys was weak and Alicent and Otto see him as an ally. He ingratiated himself into the princes’ circle in the training yard incident. I agree though, the show did is dirty
In the books, everything written about the dance were secondhand accounts. Therefore were not confirmation of what actually happened. Having the show be different than the accounts from Mushroom and Munkun is way more interesting
I think a lot of people forget that fire and blood is also propaganda and absolutely nothing told to us in the books should be taken as fact simply that that’s how the people who wrote it later on viewed things from their point of view peoples own lives and opinions bleed their way into the history of Westeros all the time and that in my opinion is the genius of George
Love your post.
I keep seeing videos like this and I know people are just trying to make content. because this has been discussed ad nauseum.
Ngl this might be going against the grain in this thread but I prefer the show's approach of making the characters more human and complex as opposed to portraying them as purely evil (which was taken with characters like Criston Cole and Aemond). You can see why they are the way the are based on their interactions with others characters in KL.
Just to clarify, Beesbury's death in the books is a but if a mystery - his throat being opened by Criston Cole is one of a few theories as to how he died if I remember correctly?
the show tries really hard to project girl power,women under patriarchy etc etc.
Listen, as a woman myself, I have to agree. I HATE how they declawed alicent and Rhaenerya. In the books Alicent was actually very politically savy and was the one to plot to put Aegon on the throne.
@@Lauren_567 what they don't understand is that the correct message to give was just like men ,women are equally capable of cunning political moves,selfish acts and cruelty. That was the point. Not to show them as victims but to show them as equal
Ruined the show. They didn't even do it with nuance lol. Nothing wrong with addressing the effects of patriarchy, internalized misogyny and feudalistic monarchy, but it was so cheaply done on the show.
Yeeeees seriously it’s so annoying. It’s written so obviously I was cringeing the whole time.
Every show we have seen for decades has had the man be the hero or the villian. But now because the woman is the hero or the villian you have a problem with it? Sounds like you arent happy that men arent the centre of attention
And all of them died anyway when they did steal the throne. Were they just made of stupid thinking they'd get away with it and Rhaenyra wouldn't retaliate?
george completely stole the epithet of Richard Neville the earl of warwick during the war of the roses in england lol. he was such a powerful lord he dethroned henry vi to put richard duke of york on, but the other lords werent ok with it so he made the king henry vi give the throne to richard upon henrys death, then he put edward iv on, then changed his mind over a decade and dethroned edward then put henry back on. then nearly fought off edward during edwards re-invasion. he was nicknamed the kingmaker. in a letter written to king louis xi of france, the governor of abbeville said "the english have but 2 rulers, the earl of warwick, and another whose name i have forgotten"
If it were dungeons and dragons, TV Cole is that one normally meek guy whose default mode in-game is “I cave the NPC’s head in” or “I draw my sword…menacingly!”
I actually like Criston in the show he’s way more complex than the book version
in the show he’s literally just an incel simp
I mean him killing Laenors bf was what made me hate him the most. Totally uncalled for.
can you please put the subtitles a bit up 🙏
They seem good to me, is it hard to see the subtitles on ur device?
They seem just fine to me
I hated Criston in the Fire and Blood, but he was so charismatic. The show destroyed him, he's so annoying.
It really makes no sense as to why they made these changes when they were, for the most part, following Fire and Blood rather faithfully.
He's the show writer's punching bag 😅 kinda feel bad for the actor for the hate he's receiving.
Just cos Rhaenyra said no to him 😂
I read the book and my interpretation is that Cole was an instrument. It was always the Highgarden’s call. Although that’s what I love about Fire and Blood, the ambiguity
All that X, Gun Club, Blasters, Flesh Eaters scene / Slash Records thing that happened at the same time as Los Lobos and Paisley Underground deserves a great book or doc...and Mazzy's own video...
I'm glad to see this because without knowing what Cole was in the books I HATED the character in the show. And not in a good hate way like hating Joffrey because he was supposes to be but in a this character's actions and involvement makes no sense/ bad writing sort of way
The show pretty much ruined the character of Criston Cole. The show made him look like a henchman rather than a kingmaker. The plot of the show would have been more interesting had they stuck to his character in the book.
Lannister twins… since no one pointed it out
It’s crazy that Hughie’s last words to Robin were “Billy Joel” and his father’s last words to him were “Tom Hanks”.
You can’t have a man being that integral to the plot. Remember you have to spread “the message”
Just hoping they didn't get his death at the Butcher's Ball wrong, I want to hear the immortal lines from his killers as he bleeds out...
"I'll have no songs about how brave you died, Kingmaker. There's tens of thousands dead on your account."
Criston is one of my favourite characters
🤔 I think beesbury started to leave but then cole pulled him back, slit his throat then yeeted him out of the window.
Contemporary writing is fixated on making the men horridly arrogant and the women majestically misunderstood
Ser Criston is THE best fighter during the Dance.
He is basically just like the book, particularly since it's a history, and the family in power is going to cast blame on non-family members. It would make sense that the Targs want to blame anyone with a different last name that was involved, particularly since he isn't of highborn blood of any kind.
Having read through fire & blood i find the show’s portrayal of criston to be far more interesting of a character as opposed to his book counterpart. my only issue is the lack of consequences he suffered for killing joffrey, but other than that i think he’s a damn good character.
In the book cristin cole as badass as cregan,aemon dragonknight and etc while in the show they portrayed him as emo boy 😂
Thank you! Criston was the character that I was looking forward to the most. A character calm, calculating, and in complete control. But what we got was a temperamental manchild not unlike Kylo Ren
He's not calm and calculating. He's prone to fits of rage.
We needed to see Criston going beast mode at a tourney with him smashing the kingsguards. Gewayne Hightower. Harwin strong and Joffery.
Coley you mean. ... "and Christon Coley walked over and opened his throat"
He was still a cry baby...I don't see how it makes him more interesting.
Actually most of the people in this show were just very...immature. From Viserys to Rhaenyra and esp Cole. They wouldn't last long either way.
Criston is nice in Hous of the dragon
Yeh what they did to ser criston was probably my biggest issue with HOTD that or blackwashing house Velaryon
After how Stannis the Mannis was butchered, did you expect any different???
I prefer most of the show counterparts tbh, but he is one of the ones that the book did better
Just hope they don’t kill him off next season
Butcher's Ball solved my problem with Cole..
It was so satisfying
Actually no one remembers how beesbury died. Also it was everyone’s doing in making aegon king. Cristin just helped him get ready for it. A kings guard doesn’t have more political power than the hightowers lol
The Earl of Warwick also known as "The Kingmaker" during the War of the Roses
Also he F’d up break bones but they made me a little cry baby
technically there were 2 different flimsy accounts of what happened to Beesbury, so the reader is not sure how it happened exactly... The show brings clarity to what actually happened, as if you were a witness to what truly took place in that secret council
We in russia call Christon Cole КРЫСтон (sound almost the same, and mean RAT in russian)
whats the song in the backround
All of that because he was friendzoned. 😂 My man's heartbreak is deeper than the Mariana's.
In the books, he was described as pious. I think he is a fanatic, this really cement the faith wanted the Targs out theory and the maesters conspiracy
Well instead they made him a fcking boring bully.
The show really got a lot of shit wrong
I think the point is to make people hate Cole. Both do a good job.
If I’m Aegon and I take the throne first thing I’m doing is killing Criston, Larys, Alicent and Otto, purposing a marriage to Rhaenyra to strengthen both of our claims, and telling her she can be my equal, my Queen, not just a consort.
She clearly doesn't want to share the throne lol. They offered her marriage before lol.
Also, in the books, wasn't he a way better fighter? Like, in the show, the tourney battle between him and Daemon seemed to be 50/50, but in the books, it is written like Criston had a way easier time beating Daemon. Same with his match against Harwin Strong.
I loved both interpretations
They really chopped him up to a basic who cant handle rejection. I still hate his character
So horrible he was the only one with Rhaenyra to witness the White Stag choose her as heir.
This show was suuuuuuuch a let-down for me.
You can tell that they actually tried with this one. It actually has the skeleton of a good show, but it was completely gimped by being only two seasons. This makes the first season into an unholy mess of a number of very good scenes held together by the story equivalent of chewing gum, odd bits of string and electrical tape.
Take the dinner scene for example. That scene is genuinely good. But it cannot possibly make up for the fact that the story as a whole has been so rushed that we don't really know any of the characters, let alone care about them in any meaningful way.
The show should have been four seasons, with season one taking up the first three. We even get tacit acknowledgement of this by the fact that they change actors twice in the course of the season to reflect the characters ageing.
Then you could have had the first season being Rhaeneyras coming of age story, ending with her being named heir and marrying. Second season would focus on the growing conflict between her and the queen, ending with the dinner party and the reconciliation. Then things could slowly fall apart in season three, setting things up for the war.
This slow approach would also have given them time to introduce and develop enough characters and plot lines to actually fill the entire fourth season. As things stand I have no idea what they are going to do with that season. Because s01 was so incredibly rushed, they just don't have enough material to fill an entire season, so my guess is that it's going to be a LOT of pointlessly drawn out combat, and a lot of story filler. Because all that's left of the actual story is that all the characters kill each other.
It's really sad, because you can tell that there was a pretty good writing team behind this, and that they actually have at least some respect for Martin's work (which isn't surprising, given that the man himself has supposedly been involved).
2 seasons?? What are you talking about? There’s only one season so far with at least 3 happening in the future…
@@discobroccoli198 wait? What are YOU talking about? I just checked Wikipedia, and as far as I can see they only say that there will be a second season, which will be eight episodes long. They say nothing about any seasons beyond that.
Where did you hear about the show having more seasons?
And, as a side note, having more than one more season would be a terrible move, because all that's left of the plot is that people ride around on dragons, killing each other.
There is simply no way to stretch that any further than one season, especially given how little story and character material they have to work with at the end of season one, and I'm frankly very doubtful that they will manage to fill even eight episodes with anything even remotely approaching interesting content.
@@gustavchambert7072 Okay, this just shows that you know absolutely nothing about what GRRM and Ryan Condal have been saying about the future of the show. There are 4 seasons planned at the moment. It is literally impossible to tell the whole story in just 8 more episodes. Season 2 will only cover part of the war up to a certain point that I’m not going to spoil. Don’t spout nonsense when you don’t know shit.
It’s funny he claims they’ll turn the red Jeep into a brothel considering the way his chosen king acted…
Criston butthurt cole.
Show criston doesn't make sense he murders some one IN a wedding and gets away with it Infront of everyone And the king lol
You are actually wrong about him cutting beesburys throat. That was a suggested possibility that was never confirmed. The books leaves many details like that intentionally ambiguous.
He still is very interesting on the show. He’s clearly helping pull strings and has influence. His influence is growing and in just a few more episodes in season 2 he’s going to have the most influence on this war for the greens. He essentially plans the war with Aemon and their path of destruction begins. Pray for the Riverlands
You didn't even say his name right
Personally I like that there’s a difference in the books vs the tv show when it comes to things like Beesbury’s death. It suggests that the fictional history books that we the audience get to see aren’t always accurate. Was Beesbury cold blooded murdered, or was it more an accidental death from a room full of tempers boiling over?
Everything is better in books. Period.
Hey James Hope you're good mate
I was wondering if there's any truth in the stories that the reason United aren't prioritizing Onana is about the feud between the agencies?
He kills the unarmed old councilmen he is a false knight in both books and show
The writters want the Greens to be Devils and Blacks the Hero Saints