Use code THISISFINE for 10% off a GN toolkit (now in stock & shipping, as well as previous back-orders!), mouse mat, or other items: store.gamersnexus.net/ NZXT RESPONDS: ua-cam.com/video/ZnDWxiFvUtE/v-deo.html Watch part 1 here: ua-cam.com/video/9XIKOSrQdQ0/v-deo.html This is the second appearance for Patrick Stone. He has helped occasionally behind the scenes for about 8-9 years now, but just joined our team officially. We're really excited to have him. He is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher (and former network engineer), and it really shows in this content. Hope you all liked having some additional technical detail provided by him!
If I saw those plastic screws I would almost be guaranteed to think that the manufacturer cheaped out, or that a previous owner did not have the right screws, and I would replace them with proper ones made out of metal. That "fix" is no such thing.
If I didn't know about it I'd 100% swap it with a metal screw. However I do know about it, so it just makes me mistrust all NZXT products if they're not going to recall shockingly poor design. If my government knew about this they'd force a recall. There could be many legal repurcussions if they don't disclose and rectify.
It'd be fine, if they didn't also bring the clowning into their marketing, customer service and business ethics. But I guess all hope is lost for companies like NZXT
I've known a few social media managers, it's just as likely a case of "customer support won't respond to our emails either so all I have for you is memes"
Being a meme is fine if you do it like Wendy’s. But there’s a balance to be had between memeing for the sake of amusement and internet marketing and being professional when there’s an issue faced by customers and the like. NZXT failed in this aspect.
NZXT ignores even their customers... My RGB fans stopped functioning and they isolated the issue as hardware failure and then they started ignoring. Now they stopped responding to my email. This is pathetic customer service!!
I have been designing PC Boards for 20+ years and this problem should have never occurred. Internal traces and copper planes must have a minimum clearance of 1mm from the board outline (includes mounting holes). This PCB design would never have passed a standard design rule check. This is a poor design with insufficient rules. NZXT should fix this issue immediately with a recall of the product.
You are 100% right. It also may have happened that the hole was too small for the screw that they put originally so even if there was some clearance the PCB was chewed by the threads. All PCBs I've designed have no traces nor planes whatsoever (except GND) not only certain distance from the edges but also not under whole head of the screw.
Yeah, it’s very puzzling. I’ve seen custom PCB manufacturer (who often deal with noobs) reject client’s design for this kind of simple mistakes, very easy to check.
I don't even know why the 12 V is even there to begin with. The PCB is little more than an interconnector between the Cables and the Socket. None of the Traces need to be longer than a few mm, maybe with the exepion of Ground, which you might want to put on a different Layer for shielding. But why bother, when the Socket isn't shielded, so why is a thace there and +12V of all things. Seems like a Rookie mistake which got approved somehow.
I'm wondering if this isn't so much an issue with the design, but potentially the manufacturing? Sure there are problems with the overall design, but could the tolerances be off in their manufacturing process? And, hypothetically assuming that is the case, are there typically any kind of QC or QA testing for something like this on a finished product or is it not usually necessary?
@@CreativityNull i’d say it’s solely a design error. PCB manufactures have very tight tolerances, otherwise you’d have wrong traces/shorts elsewhere. The decision to have the 12v plane going so close to the screw hole is a (not good) decision when you lay out the PCB in cad software, so whoever designed this did not take it into consideration
I live how Steve is slowly building himself a consumer protection lab in his studio. Seeing 3 people huddled around the PCH with multimeters and high magnification camera setups and surgical lighting is wonderful.
I lost my mother and little brothers in a house fire when was a wee fella. The total disregard to a serious potential fire hazard from a large corporation just to save a few dollars really just makes me angry.. and to think they throw around the number "10" reported cases as little... that's 10 lives, 10 household, 10 families!! Won't be looking to buy nzxt products anytime in the near....wait, never! Keep up the great work lads.
10 fires for a unit that has barely hit the market - and at $350 is a low volume unit to begin with - is actually already alarming enough. Especially coming not from some kind of inherent difficulty, but from dumb engineering neglect and lack of validation, entirely avoidable.
I'm so sorry to hear that, Matt. You are absolutely right that "10" (or even 1) is not a small number when it comes to the potential of fire. Sure, the first few might have lost video cards, but if the conditions are there, losses could be homes, sentimental value, or in extremely unfortunate scenarios, lives. Thank you for sharing and for adding your voice. You have an important voice here as it is one that knows the severity. I appreciate you taking the time to write this comment.
Might have to show this to the retailer's here selling this case. Looks to me like that the case meets he definition of "electrically unsafe" www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763615.html
All companies make choices like this. We could make cars very safe in accidents by making them into basically tanks, but no one wants to pay the cost of making them into tanks. Not the companies, not the end-user.
1: GPUs are heavy, you might not even need to unscrew the riser for the hole to degrade to the point where the 12V plane is exposed. 2: The 12V plane might make electrical contact with something even with the nylon screws if the hole is degraded enough. 3: The hole should be plated and grounded. 4: There should not be a 12V plane ANYWHERE NEAR A FUCKING SCREW HOLE.
With manufacturing variance as well, not all holes will align perfectly either on the riser or on the support it attaches too. Misalignment increases the likelihood of threads cutting into the board due to the lateral force. It's just not a safety first design.
Yeah, this is my concern. It may be uncommon, but someone moving one of cases around these around with a GPU causing the riser to wiggle around might change a unit from being very close to a short to shorting. Imagine a GPU in a riser travelling in a car from one place to another slowly nibbling away at the sub-millimeter distance between the screw and the 12V plane. It's essentially a shake-n-bake computer case.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how Steve and the GN team actually care about consumers and put it all on the line for them, great work guys shame on nzxt
Right? So glad I found GN will forever come here for whatever news, reviews, testing etc that they relase. full transparency on a professional level does nothing but promote sales (usually) shame on all these companies sucks that it always comes down to "us" having to hold the 'big dawg' accountable.
Yep. I ordered from GN and was honestly never going to otherwise. If you have disposable income you sort of have a duty to support good people or at least good deeds. Meanwhile NZXT has lost me as a customer forever. That's the only solution to such recklessness and they should go out of business. This is a mistake that never should have happened in the first place let alone how they're handling it. It's akin to giving people rubber gloves because a product shocks them. I've probably purchased 90 NZXT cases over the years for personal and customer builds. No longer. I don't care what customers may want now. NZXT is finished.
Few channels would be willing to burn bridges like GN, they would kowtow to the corporations. Speaks volumes about GN's character that they are valuing safety more than dollars.
The corpo PR did not speculate how blunt and bold gamernexus would be. Should've known when he said their "i" version of casings are useless piece of shits.
An additional factor around the screw eroding the PCB material. That slot is expected to contain a heavy graphics card. The case is a small and relatively portable case. It's reasonable to expect that people may transport it to a friend's house, or similar. Vibration during transport may well cause progressive erosion of the hole, as it restrains movement of the graphics card.
Yes, shock testing was not done on that hastily chosen fix either. The screws will be loaded in shear by the graphics card weight. Nylon screws (especially ones stretched by over tightening) are not durable. Shock and vibe over time will lead to failure of the nylon screws and ultimately replacement by metal screws.
I'd say that depending on the actual weight of the graphics card such erosion/breakup could happen in virtually no time. It would only take the car bumping once on the road on whatever blockage that is there and you've got a riser card not only rendered useless, but instead turned into a blaze source.
I just went through a house fire in December (unrelated cause) and even when you dont lose every single item you own its still a nightmare. Suddenly I am displaced, I lost thousands in belongings, and where I set up my life is suddenly a black husk. Its not something id wish upon anyone. You are doing something important here for sure GN.
Devastating to hear these stories because we nearly had a bad one a few years ago. I know the fear but not the loss. I hope things will improve soon, and I appreciate your message.
House fires are *never* a laughing matter. I’ve lost a good friend of mine in a house fire caused by a faulty PSU in a desktop (this is why you don’t skimp on PSUs, guys). Very disappointing to see NZXT treat this without the urgency and seriousness expected given what’s at risk
6 years ago our house burnt down, and the devastation it brings to your life is immeasurable. Family pets died and we lost everything. The whole family had to live in a 1 bedroom flat for a few months waiting for insurance and to rebuild the house. As the op said you're doing important good work
next email from NZXT "Due to the current situation, we have decided to not send you any "FE" NZXT cases in the future. We would be happy to revise it, should your editorial direction change. NZXT"
As being product liability investigator I completely understand and feel your passion! Wow ...Funny you mentioned the Ford Pinto defect. Our office worked this case back in the day and it was found to be a SHEET METAL SCREW, when rear ended, punctured the single walled fuel tank. Fuel tanks are now double walled. Our company worked directly for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Peterbuilt and several more back in the day. NZXT is NOT the only company to be mentioned here!! The manufacture of the cable needs to be at the forefront! JayZ is correct, companies unfortunately do not address the issue til the issue becomes financially larger then the fix! “AT THE PRICE OF A LIFE” on most cases. And yes ... how sad is that?!?! The proper statement for NZXT would have been “TEMPORARY FIX”.. what they should be doing is reaching out to customers and insisting they immediately stop using the product and return for repair OR refund no matter the cost! Attorneys list everyone associated with the company in lawsuits!! Even if they were no where connected to the defect. And now that you are addressing this, even in a positive way and we’re affiliated with NZXT, you would most likely be listed as well. How crazy does this sound? Very! It’s deep pockets.... anyone who has $$. You would most likely be dropped off the suit. Seen some crazy law suits. The plaintiff attorneys are like locus! NOT ONE LIFE SHOULD BE LOST PRIOR TO A MANUFACTURER TO TAKE ACTION ON A KNOWN DEFECT!!!!! It’s all about the $$. Companies knowing their product has a defect that can cause injury or death and not do anything bout it til the law suits come, is in my eyes, MANSLAUGHTER / MURDER. Good job Steve! You’ve made difference!
Reminds me of the waterslide "Verrückt" that decapitated a 10-year-old boy. It wasn't even designed by engineers; it was designed by the park owner. During testing, the rafts would go airborne, but they opened the ride anyways. They knew it was bad, but they didn't want to fix it out of greed.
I'm genuinely surprised by the response by NZXT. I'd imagine that their legal department would be terrified over the potential liability in this situation, but apparently not.
@@chrisfortune1813 Considering that you have to set up and configure a case anyway, this wouldn't fly at all in front of a judge. That's like saying Lego kits could be defended with that.
@@afelias I was not trying to say they were right but pointing out a previously used and accepted defense of this type of this from other industries, notably the auto industry. An extreme example would be drinking bleach, the producer can't be held responsible for you if you do that even though it is physically possible to drink a fluid. This is why this kind of work by GN is so important, companies will take a fix that covers them rather than fix the problem if they think they can get away with it.
As an electrician, I find electronics so fascinating. This is where your knowledge of electrical theory and troubleshooting shines. I really appreciate Everyone in this video shedding light to the dangers of electricity, and how easily a happy moment could’ve turned out otherwise. Watching you guys work it out inspired me to build my first pc. Now I’m hooked.
There are 2 fundamental flaws in the PCB. 1) The screw hole is not even a proper size for the screw being used. 2) There is no copper "keep out" around the screw hole. One of the first thing I was taught about creating PCB layouts was to place "keep outs" around holes and connectors where you do not want accidental contact. This is beyond lazy and is absolutely dangerous as has been demonstrated.
Yes, the part librarians should have added courtyard to the screw hole, but even with that, DRC on the drill lyr should have automatically pulled back the filled zones. My guess is they designed it with a smaller hole and then drilled a larger one in production.
@@endless2239 A plated through hole would not have had this issue, as it's got GND layer near power planes and that's like the first DRC rule you set (distance from filled zones to other nets). The issue here is that the through hole is unplated and it drills through a copper pour (filled zone) on another layer, which would not be caught by the edge cuts DRC, nor the filled zones / traces DRC (which would have caught the plated through hole). The issue is that they didn't pull back the filled zone based on the drill layer, which is pretty odd, IMO. I suspect they designed a smaller hole by mistake, everything passed DRC, but then they realized it was too small and upped the drill size in production or after the PCB was made as a sepearate step.
it is, and it gives me immense respect for steve and the whole GN team. sub'd originally for the product reviews, stayed for the industry accountability pieces
It's why I like channels like Thunderf00t, also because raging nerds are great fun 😎 Or anyone else knowledgeable just shutting bullshitters down, especially when it also saves me money 🤘😁
@@ebolawarrior451 I think there's many politicians who start with the noble goals, but often they have to play the game to get into position to affect change. By the time the get to position they've become compromised. Moral leaders resign, so the selection bias of lifelong politicians are either those without major backbone or those who love the corruption.
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 UL is a safety testing lab. In the US we don't require UL like Europe Requires CE. The situation is you can be more easily sued if you release a harmful product to the public. UL stands for Underwriter Laboratories, who comes up with safety standards like IEEE and NFPA, National Fire Protection Agency, ANSI and ISO safety (and CE now) to determine safety tests and standards. A manufacturer gets certified to meet the standard if they choose, at their expense. A fundamental rule is a single point failure can NOT produce risk to the end user, most importantly, No FIRE. If your product is not UL, then the end user can not get insurance on their home/business as you are putting unsafe stuff in the building, so most manufacturer s get UL.
Hell, I just finished the video and you showed it right there. Copper strands were visibly protruding from the pcb. If one of those strands is pushed into the exposed threads as you screw it down, then it will burn down at first start up. If the power supply malfunctions, then it becomes an area of heat buildup if the circuit doesn't terminate properly. This is REALLY bad. And just because reported cases are not common now, doesn't mean that they won't be increasing in frequency and severity over time
Ive designed my own PCBs both for etching myself and also for fabrication by services like JLC now you can get them professionally made for cheap prices. Adequate clearance for traces around holes and away from edges is a basic part of design. Having any trace, let alone one capable of delivering significant current, go anywhere near a screw hole is a ridiculous error to see in a commercial product. Also the hole is undersized. I would never spec a hole to be effectively tapped into by a screw. The hole should be ~0.5mm wider than the screw so the PCB is clamped down on rather than screwed into. This is super basic design stuff that even I, as a hobbyist, would never get wrong in my own projects. Or if I did, I'd bin the PCB and start again.
Adding to this, most applications can run a basic clearance check, even open source apps like Kicad can detect a fault like this. This feels like someone moved a pcb through-hold or widened it without running any automated checks. This sort of thing is common in CAD and software, because people are rushed and QA isn't heavily enforced. Someone clearly didn't understand the weight of their design decisions, nor the liability if they failed in their designs.
Most EDA systems will automatically add keepouts around screw holes, you dont even have to do it manually. And I agree, tapping a PCB with a screw is just plain retarded. There is literally no reason to do this.
Yep, came here to leave the same comment. This is just plain horrible design. Every single PCB design tool I've ever used (whether free or professional) by default runs DRC and will not allow you to have traces near a screw hole. There's always a designated keepout zone, and you have to make a conscious effort to work around it. Even having a screw thread into the hole shouldn't result in any copper being exposed. This looks like absolutely trash design + someone spec'd the wrong screw.
My suspicion would be that this PCB was made without any screwholes originally, and thus there was never any hole to be checked for in DRC, and NZXT got a bunch of these holeless PCBs in inventory for whatever reason... and then someone got the "bright" idea that they could just drill holes in these holeless PCBs.
I'm normally just a lurker, and no one will probably see this, but this just made me straight up sick to my stomach. This is gross negligence at the highest level. As many others have pointed out, 10 cases are 10 too many. The sheer fucking incompetence and carelessness displayed here should be all the evidence anyone ever needs. They say they can't see what the problem is, yet they ship nylon screws. I am never buying an NZXT product till the day I die
It really is baffling that registered companies such as them are legally able to sell fire hazard products? What if I child is building his first computer and leaves it on over night? The house could burn down and the child could be fatality hurt, this needs legal attention, and the products should be banned.
@@reposter6434 not only a child. If i build a new computer and i put it on and leave it running my house can burn down, could also kill anyone including kids in the house, or the house of the neighbours. And its not that they didnt know. And its not something i would actually think about. I leave my pc running a lot even when im not around to dowload a game for example. Wich would be very likely on a new build pc. You just build it, it posts and so you start it up and let the thing install al the things you want on it and you can do something else in the meantime. Now appearantly you cant because it might catch fire...
@@gabbermaikel this is true, it's reasons such as this that console players mainly stick to there LIMITED! console, and tbh I can see why, if companies can't be trusted to make safe working componenets why should they? Not saying all the brands are bad, it's meerley just this one, however new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget, and this is the type of thing new builders will choose, it's not safe and shouldn't be on the market, plain and simple.
@@reposter6434 What do you mean with "new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget" If you mean that new builders tend to go with a more low budget spec for their build then i could possibly agree yes. But if you got for a budget spec build you wil NEVER EVER touch a nzxt H1 as they are €350. I think that is actually in the top of the range price wise. And yes i know, it includes the aio cpu cooler and the power supply. But there are a lot of cases that would come in a lot cheaper then this even if you bought a expensive psu and a 240mm aio cooler(and this only has a small aio)
I think NZXT is desperatly trying to get the January-Slot for the 2021 disappointment shirt. It's not easy with everything that happend so far, but maybe they escalate it even further in February to grab that slot. I guess we have to see and wait for what they are up to.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Fortunately no. This is someone failing at safety testing of creepage during design. I wonder if they are UL rated under EN 61010 or EN 60950 or EN 62368, probably not.
This is going to be used as an example in a university PCB design class. It's just too perfect. "This is what can happen when you override your clearance rules"
This isn’t just an “oops” mistake, this is complete negligence by an Electrical Engineer, and further negligence by the company to immediately fix the situation the correct way. This product needs to be reported to the relevant US government agencies so it can’t be sold.
I mean when these companies try to squeeze every cent just to make a product, this is what you get, as the saying says “what is cheap could end up being more expensive “
Let's be real here. The electrical engineer probably didn't design this to be possible. Somewhere up the command chain someone decided to save money by using a cheap riser instead of a sturdy one.
They would need to properly design the PCB. Clearance hole that is larger than the used screw and use proper keepout zones to have no traces right next to the hole. Even the basic throughhole in EAGLE won't let you get close to it even with 0mil clearance rules. And DRC would scream at you anyway. So no idea how they even managed to spin up that board.
To me this looks like a 100% NZXT botch-up, not the riser card supplier's fault. Seeing that there are multiple fixation holes in the card, I would argue that this is an off-the-shelf, general OEM product whose holes were not designed for screw assembly (probably rather for plastic pins). Also, the "PCB dust" is a clear sign that the holes are too small for the screws -they should only dig into the metal case, but never into the PCB. Screws work by pressing the PCB against the case with the force being created through the thread digging into the latter one, but never by forcing a counterthread through both components, because here one could never ensure a snug and flush fit and control the tightening force, which is a key parameter to warrant a correct fit. There's a good reason almost everyone (especially car manufacturers, but also your trusted mainboard or SSD brand) give you a torque value for tightening the screws. So, total NZXT failure - designers integrating an unsuitable component, issue remaining undetected by design reviews and QA, PR disaster.
@OGgieBOOgy302 without people like this you'd be spending your hard earned money on absolute trash. So at least acknowledge his persistent efforts if "hero" tilts you that much.
What's happening here is a high impedance fault. The 12 volt rail near the screw is connecting to ground when the short is occurring. They are relying on the case being grounded and the screw being bonded to the case. The problem occurs because their is a weak connection to ground through the pcb to the screw and to the case. This creates a short to ground, but the resistance is too high to create enough current to trigger any over current protection. The screw hole should be shielded all the way through creating a strong connection to ground if there is a short. The 12 volt rail shouldn't be anywhere near that screw hole. This is a bad design. High impedance faults are dangerous because fires and electric shock will occur even when safety measures, such as fuses and circuit breakers are used. This being only 12 volts means you won't get a severe shock, but if you had this type of design flaw in a higher voltage device, such as a lamp or a toaster or a washing machine a person would be electrocuted to death if a short occurred. Even a circuit breaker or fuse would not save you. This pcie riser needs to be recalled right away.
Hi Roger. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise and knowledge. We can do decent troubleshooting, but don't have the vocabulary or EE foundation you seem to have. I really appreciate the extra knowledge. It may prove useful if we revisit this topic again.
Next level bad design for sure, bargain bins at shenzhen are probably better than this. Larger clearance around the mounting holes (which is usually default in most cad sw) and increasing the drill dimensions of them would probably solve the issue completely, not even bothering with plated holes if they wanted to be cheap about it.
@@xericicity I think they went for unplated holes because they were aware of how close that 12v trace was to the screw point, if you're manufacturing other parts with plated holes then switching to unplated is more costly than just reusing the same plate process, this whole mess was deliberate.
@@FilmFlam-8008 The key here is that it's a specific kind of short. If it were a low impedance short (like dropping a screwdriver on the back of a GPU and bridging the power pins on the 8-pin PCI power connector), it would have lower resistance (impedance) and higher current, and would trip the OCP of the PSU. Like that wire you see Patrick using with the power supply. As soon as he turns it on, it current limits to 4A. The computer PSU would shut down. The issue here is that the resistance of the short is too high to trip OCP, therefore the PSU can deliver it's specified current and OCP is not tripped, causing a fire.
@@bacintom That was a good thing in the 90's along with being "da bomb". Now both of those gets you put on the terrorist watchlist. Welcome to the Brave New World of Covid 1984!
Somewhere at NZXT, there's an accountant weighing the cost of a lawsuit against the cost of replacing the riser cables for 40-60% of the H1 cases sold ('cuz roughly half of H1 owners won't know about the issue or won't bother requesting a replacement).
I will never, ever buy an NZXT case. Thank you for pointing out this dangerously defective product and the unbelievably faithless response by the manufacturer.
@@venom9370 "Ehhh" is if they took a week to respond. This is all completely dangerous, childish bullshit from a company that would still love to be paid for it.
Just an observation here: The original metal screws appears to be of the "self-threading" type. (Identified by the slight triangular shape of the screw instead of cylindrical) That would be VERY bad. Self-Threading screws are DESIGNED to eat away material in order to create threads for said screws. When my dad was teaching me to assemble PCs he specifically told me to: "Never place those screws directly in contact with any PCBs. EVER." Obviously he said this for the very reason demonstrated in these videos.
Yeah... I really don't understand why they did that. When you screw mother board for example to the case, hole in mb is just an hole for screw to go trough, actual screw is tightened into the case. I mean that is the standard way to do it, why the heck would they make the hole smaller?? It just seems like such and basic thing and very clear design flaw. The very least they could do is to call back current design and replace the risers, and ofc extend that offer to people who bought the case. Even if you replace the metal screw, the pcb is already damaged if at some point metal screw was used for the riser. It just the metal debris could cause the short. It's such an stupid mistake. They would have noticed the issue with prototypes or first assembly.
It is also standard practice to keep copper fill and any pcb traces at least a few millimeters away from the screw head size. So it's also highly negligent on the PCB designers part.
@@oliverer3 Fully agreed. That's what I do on my PCBs to prevent exactly this situation. A 'route-keepout', or 'copper pullback' are the usual EDA terms.
I'm amazed at the amount of scientific inquiry you guys have made into this issue. Makes me appreciate the lengths you guys go through to bring awareness and impart some knowledge to the PC Building community. Kudos to your efforts! It was highly interesting the way you built this experiment and demonstrated the 12V to Ground short with an external "sacrificial wire". Loved it!
the digging into the pcb probably also strips the coating on the metal screws, it might be a rare issue but over time all the factors just stack up to make it more and more dangerous. FR4 pcb material has glas fiber in it which is very abrasive (same reason they use tungsten carbide drills for it during manufacture)
I was considering building a system on this, now fuck no, especially after seeing how they're reacting to this. I will not be supporting a company like this.
@@joaovarela4854 With those components, the Coolermaster NR200P is a very solid choice (around 18L). If you want to go smaller, the Ncase M1 is also excellent (around 12L) but it's a much more pricey "boutique case". Those two should be able to keep things cool and relatively quiet, with other sff cases you will most likely have to sacrifice cooling and / or noise performance.
Great video. Not only did I learn something, but I was able to fully understand how they cut corners here. Kudos to Patrick being on camera. I know it was a more serious topic, but you guys play off of each other well. Hope to see more of you guys working on stuff like this together on camera!
Patrick and Patrick are excellent sources of knowledge. Definitely planning more appearances. They do excellently to balance the gaps in my own abilities and should improve our overall content by taking over certain parts of analysis. Thanks for your comment - it'll be encouraging for both Patricks!
@@GamersNexus In anything you're passionate about, it always pays to surround yourself with people who are better than you at some things! Glad to pass along some good vibes to you guys.
5 days ago, purchased th H1. I really love the formfactor, friend showed me ur first vid of this series, i was concerned, got my multimeter 2 check, sure enough, same issues with the riser and mangled nylon screws. Now saw this vid, packing the H1 back up to return it as we speak.
There's a few things that are a bad idea in life, like pursuing Lu Bu in dynasty warriors, or cooking bacon with your shirt off. But one thing you *NEVER* do, is tell Steve that he's wrong about a PC case.
Another way to describe this for people who don't quite understand voltage: electricity wants 2 touching points of metal to be at the same voltage. If 12V touches ground (0V), then a massive amount of electric current flows in an attempt to equalize that voltage. The result of that massive current flow is a huge amount of heat and a fire.
Yep, Ohms law is V = IR If two things are in direct contact (12V plane and ground), R approaches 0. That means I (current) approaches infinity. But typically whatever is bridging the link (in this case the thin wire) burns up before that happens and breaks the connection. Another thing to note is that even if the mobo isn't in the tray for some reason, you still have 12V shorted to your case through the motherboard tray and case itself. So if you touch even the outside of the case and something electrically connected to ground (say, opening a window latch or something), you could electrocute yourself if you're using a cheater plug. SUPER DANGEROUS and definitely worthy of a recall. Even if you're not using a cheater plug you'd be creating a short from 12V to the Ground part of the power plug via your case which could also start a fire.
Here's my analogy: When large hedge funds try to artificially short a stock (increase voltage potential), it creates an opening (the screw) for normal people to invest in said stock in an attempt to equalize the wealth disparity (equalize voltage potential) in the modern world (the circuit) until the rich people complain because wealth is flowing (current) to the poor people (ground point) too quickly and gets the brokerage companies (overcurrent protection) involved and stop the transactions (open the circuit).
Cant trust a company who puts fans against a metal front panel as aesthetic upcharge. In all seriousness, great job as always. Shoutout to Mr. Stone, what a wonderful addition to the team and great presentation for all viewership to understand, regardless of knowledgebase
@@Rance53 I think Anthony Young of LTT exudes the same style and leans a bit more into the swagger category, but calm confidence is such a nice thing to see. Experts who can feel secure in their expertise.
@@thetalesofdaneandco Anthony is great. That dude knows sooooo much, he's an OG nerd. every video that has him in the thumbnail, gets a view and i'm never disappointed.
Let me be clear, I'm not trying to simplify people down to analogous people, everyone has their own personality and I like most of them. That being said, Mr. Stones expertise, presenting style and calm confidence remind me of LTT's Anthony Young, which is a compliment just to be clear. Fantastic talented guys.
And now NZXT has gone even further downhill (their computer rental program). Have never bought a NZXT product before (no particular reason, just never happened), but I sure as heck never will now.
I appreciate the efforts you've gone through to ensure safety for consumers and repeatable results for NZXT. I agree with your assessment that cases often don't stay with one person for their entire life cycle, and rarely with one build. A quick look at facebook marketplace and ebay will show people moving cases on, even specifically the H1, and there is no acknowledgement of this issue in listings. Expecting consumers to retain pertinent knowledge indefinitely (especially when NZXT is downplaying it) could genuinely lead to damage of property and in extreme cases loss of life. It is possible that this is a design issue, or even a shortcut made intentionally, but regardless of whose fault it is, this level of danger is unacceptable. NZXT is culpable.
You're so right - Here, I would like to add that a single case of fire could result in an "extreme" case. Mass death. The Grenfeld tower disaster was caused by a faulty refrigerator. One spark is all it takes to kill everybody above in a high-rise building.
I’m a hardware engineer. This can be completely resolved with a simple PCB revision. Good spot that the revision on the PCB hasn’t changed. This is just laziness and fear of scrapping material.
This is an Apple level of design flaw. Reminds me of those Macbooks that have a connector designed with a 12V pin right next to a CPU data pin (in a way no other company does except Apple because reasons) that can kill the CPU if shorted by liquid spilling,
I have one of these and its incredible how no one contacted me about this issue, hopefully, I found this youtube video in time to do something about it.
"If the motherboard is not attached to the motherboard tray, then you've broken the circuit." >NZXT execs eyes start glowing once they realize they can ship plastic stand-offs rather than fix the problem, again.
In theory a graphics card or other expansions PCI-E Plate will ALSO be ground. and that will connect to the Case in the same way the MB does to the case.... so a new PCB is the ONLY option that should be considered!
Nope, just never purchase NZXT crap again and spread the word. If they want our houses to potentially burn down, let's return the sentiment in kind and burn the company down into bankruptcy. It is simply the karma of the golden rule of life. Don't do unto others what you wouldn't do upon yourself.
@@schelba NZXT fixed what in Brazil? They probably "fixed" it with nylon screws that they crossthread violently. They FOR SURE haven't remanufactured the defective boards, you can't do this in such a short time, it would take at least 3 months. You seem to be misunderstanding the whole issue. What was expected from them now in January, now that issue was become known, is not to hotpatch the issue and throw the case with a still defective board back on the market, but to take it off the market until they can replace the faulty part completely, and at least promise everyone a replacement riser, not a pair of flimsy plastic screws that can barely hold it in place.
I almost bought this case for my five year old daughter. How the hell am I supposed to EVER trust this company again when they knew that it could have caught fire and just refused to acknowledge it?
im gonna remove all my nzxt casefans and also the rgb controller, the fans rattle when mounted upside-down anyway, cheap ass liquid bearings... bet it has crappy pcb's too.
@Samurai Shampoo A kid doesnt need clothes too, just cut some holes in a garbage-bag... like srsly.. Every kid has got a smartphone, like that is any different.
@Samurai Shampoo why not? i had my first computer when i was 4(30+ years ago, yikes i'm getting old). its better to start kids off early because the vast majority of kids/teenagers/young adults have absolutely no typing skills or basic understand of how computers work beyond opening a browse because they live on their iphones and ipads.
The big issue with house fires isn't always what sets it off as what sets it off can usually be something that looks pretty small and innocent. They propagate and become even more serious when they are left unattended and/or they spread quickly to other flammable items that make the fire even worse (basically what happened to Grenfell. The fridge started the fire but the flammable cladding made it oh-so-much-worse). It's why fire risks in consumer products are usually taken very seriously. NZXT clearly didn't get the memo.
@@GhostyInjected Actually the complete opposite, I pay attention, unlike you. If you want to live in a socially-economic broken and emotionally deformed society then that's up to you. Certainly not what I want, since most people are like you, you drag the rest of us people who can think freely down with you
More like Marketer: Can we make it cheaper by not plating it? Engineer: it could short, so I wouldn't recommend it Marketer: who cares? Just make sure it doesn't touch it directly and start selling them!
Let me share the train taught of me as person who builds his own PC-s. "Wtf is this... a plastic screw... how the fu** is that suppose to hold. I will just install the riser with one of my extra metal screws. Ok nice. Job done. OMG my apartment is burning... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
If it was me, first I'll probably leave a plastic screw in place cause why need to change it? But then, I'm diy person and do clean my PC every 3 months (my house is the 'too much dust' ground zero!) so I can see my self destroy those plastic screws like no tomorrow and at some point if I forgot about why plastic screw really in there, I'll change it to metal screw for sure (have ton of those) yep, plastic screw is just a workaround. P.S. I'd a solution for myself (well known) forgetful, by stick note somewhere in the case to reminder about fire hazard, but... that also just a workaround too damnit
Yeah I'd open the case, see the plastic screws, puke and immediately replace them with metal screws because who the hell uses a plastic screw in a PC??
As an former sheetmetal draughtsman, this scares the living daylight out of me (the disrespect of tolerance and hole sizes). It makes me wonder what other stuff is bad in their equipment as well... NZXT will be on my naughty list right next to Thermaltake...
Same, though as a computer engineer. Honestly when they were discussing PCB design, and were talking about any software throwing rules violations up the ass for violating a minimum distance to GND/power rail, I realized that they must have done something totally beyond the pale here. It's like this riser was designed as a fever dream somehow.
This is some incredible investigative journalism and for anyone to say that UA-camrs can’t be as such are inherently stuck within the past. Amazing work to Steve and your team. Your journalism combined with your technical knowledge can and WILL save many people from property destruction and injury/death!
100%, not touching them out of principle. I think the only other company I won't touch is Thermaltake, for ripping off other companies' designs since about 2015 onwards.
"[Patrick Stone] is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher..." Yeah, he most definitely sounds like one. I could listen to him explaining electrical engineering basics for days. Time for GN to start up a new series of educational videos, hm? HMMMMM?????
Could throw in collaborations with EEVblog, ElectroBOOM, bigclive, GreatScott, Mr Carlson's Lab, Fran Blanche, TronicsFix Just to mention a handful of great electronics channels
Companies pay millions to get this shit done, NZXT should be groveling on the ground for forgiveness but instead they think memes will prevent house fires.
"If the consumer forgets the riser is a fire hazard and uses metal screws" U wot m8? The fact that's even a real response from a company as large as them is not only laughable, but downright evil.
Wow, the final minutes where you can see the exposed 12v plane, and continuity can be hand-tested with the probe in the screw hole, is pretty extraordinary. I don’t know how something like this even happens; given the last 30+ years of CAD PCB tools have (as mentioned in the video) checks for exactly this type of mistake. Furthermore, any reputable PCB manufacturer should catch this type of problem before a single board is created. The concern I have is that this PCB might be a subcontracted part that’s not unique and thus floating around in other PCI-E vertical mounting kits and cases from other brands. Irrespective of that concern, a recall needs to be issued ASAP.
GET 'EM. Seriously, fuck NZXT for trying to undercut y'all with their bullshit. Edit: HOLY SHIT, DISCOUNT CODE "THISISFINE," MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT. This is the best channel on UA-cam.
I have the Phanteks riser cable I hope my doesn't have those issues. I use it now for 1 year is still fine. So I don't think my riser cable has those kinda of problems...
Just wanted to say thank you for all of your hard work in cracking down on this issue with NZXT. I got the nylon screws in the mail, installed them, and definitely felt like their "fix" was half-assed. Because of you guys, they are now sending me a replacement riser cable (which I really hope is PCIE 4.0). Groups like you are the reason that consumers can still get a fair shake. Cheers!
Use code THISISFINE for 10% off a GN toolkit (now in stock & shipping, as well as previous back-orders!), mouse mat, or other items: store.gamersnexus.net/
NZXT RESPONDS: ua-cam.com/video/ZnDWxiFvUtE/v-deo.html
Watch part 1 here: ua-cam.com/video/9XIKOSrQdQ0/v-deo.html
This is the second appearance for Patrick Stone. He has helped occasionally behind the scenes for about 8-9 years now, but just joined our team officially. We're really excited to have him. He is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher (and former network engineer), and it really shows in this content. Hope you all liked having some additional technical detail provided by him!
This is fine 🐶🔥. 🤣
Clearly NZXT isn’t the only one throwing out memes out there 🤣
That's some quality shade
Developers should take notes from content like this. It only benefits them.
Waiting for series x.😃
NZXT are crossing you off their Christmas card list as we speak
😂😂😂
I'll race you to see who gets blacklisted by the whole industry first. We've both got ASRock in common!
I'm new here... So what's the story with ASRock? 🙄
@@GamersNexus it's a speedrun
@@A.Akbar1983 ASRock were shitty that they called them out on their shitty Z490 boards
Steve enabled rage mode in the bios
😂
Lmao
I was thinking the same thing
Archer: RAMPAGE!!!!!!!!
@Gamers Nexus, UGH will NEVER buy an NZXT product ever with that kind of lazy response and PR spin. Going elsewhere thx!
If I saw those plastic screws I would almost be guaranteed to think that the manufacturer cheaped out, or that a previous owner did not have the right screws, and I would replace them with proper ones made out of metal. That "fix" is no such thing.
Same. I’ve replaced plastic screws in the past due to them being utter shit.
same
Why is this wobbling?
*Tightens screw.*
*SNAP*
now I have to go find a real screw.
"proper ones"
If I didn't know about it I'd 100% swap it with a metal screw.
However I do know about it, so it just makes me mistrust all NZXT products if they're not going to recall shockingly poor design.
If my government knew about this they'd force a recall. There could be many legal repurcussions if they don't disclose and rectify.
I was told that this was the hottest case on the market right now. Turns out - my Intel was correct.
now your Intel is on fire, try switching to AMD
@@elektra81516 swap to amd ul be on fire more then this case
@@Metabrotropic nah, an oced 10900k can easily get to 100°, even the 5800x is way cooler than this
@@teralio9940 this isn't Bulldozer anymore... AMD isn't "hot" compared to Intel. Gtfo
TAKE MY 400TH LIKE
I feel like lately, a lot of companies are just trying to clown in twitter rather than professionally do their work outside of social media...
It'd be fine, if they didn't also bring the clowning into their marketing, customer service and business ethics. But I guess all hope is lost for companies like NZXT
I've known a few social media managers, it's just as likely a case of "customer support won't respond to our emails either so all I have for you is memes"
NZXT is one of the worst offenders their Twitter is a joke.
it's cheaper: lowest possible margin is the professional business way... even if it kills people.
Being a meme is fine if you do it like Wendy’s. But there’s a balance to be had between memeing for the sake of amusement and internet marketing and being professional when there’s an issue faced by customers and the like.
NZXT failed in this aspect.
NZXT ignores Gamers Nexus
Steve: So you've chosen death.
brilliant
Nzxt should be losing gamers respect as a quality part maker. Its pathetic
I love it when Steve rips companies apart when they deserve it, especially after ignoring his advice when he's clearly right.
NZXT ignores even their customers... My RGB fans stopped functioning and they isolated the issue as hardware failure and then they started ignoring. Now they stopped responding to my email. This is pathetic customer service!!
*Strokes beard*
I have been designing PC Boards for 20+ years and this problem should have never occurred. Internal traces and copper planes must have a minimum clearance of 1mm from the board outline (includes mounting holes). This PCB design would never have passed a standard design rule check. This is a poor design with insufficient rules. NZXT should fix this issue immediately with a recall of the product.
You are 100% right. It also may have happened that the hole was too small for the screw that they put originally so even if there was some clearance the PCB was chewed by the threads.
All PCBs I've designed have no traces nor planes whatsoever (except GND) not only certain distance from the edges but also not under whole head of the screw.
Yeah, it’s very puzzling. I’ve seen custom PCB manufacturer (who often deal with noobs) reject client’s design for this kind of simple mistakes, very easy to check.
I don't even know why the 12 V is even there to begin with. The PCB is little more than an interconnector between the Cables and the Socket. None of the Traces need to be longer than a few mm, maybe with the exepion of Ground, which you might want to put on a different Layer for shielding. But why bother, when the Socket isn't shielded, so why is a thace there and +12V of all things. Seems like a Rookie mistake which got approved somehow.
I'm wondering if this isn't so much an issue with the design, but potentially the manufacturing? Sure there are problems with the overall design, but could the tolerances be off in their manufacturing process? And, hypothetically assuming that is the case, are there typically any kind of QC or QA testing for something like this on a finished product or is it not usually necessary?
@@CreativityNull i’d say it’s solely a design error. PCB manufactures have very tight tolerances, otherwise you’d have wrong traces/shorts elsewhere. The decision to have the 12v plane going so close to the screw hole is a (not good) decision when you lay out the PCB in cad software, so whoever designed this did not take it into consideration
I live how Steve is slowly building himself a consumer protection lab in his studio. Seeing 3 people huddled around the PCH with multimeters and high magnification camera setups and surgical lighting is wonderful.
I lost my mother and little brothers in a house fire when was a wee fella. The total disregard to a serious potential fire hazard from a large corporation just to save a few dollars really just makes me angry.. and to think they throw around the number "10" reported cases as little... that's 10 lives, 10 household, 10 families!! Won't be looking to buy nzxt products anytime in the near....wait, never! Keep up the great work lads.
10 fires for a unit that has barely hit the market - and at $350 is a low volume unit to begin with - is actually already alarming enough. Especially coming not from some kind of inherent difficulty, but from dumb engineering neglect and lack of validation, entirely avoidable.
I'm so sorry to hear that, Matt. You are absolutely right that "10" (or even 1) is not a small number when it comes to the potential of fire. Sure, the first few might have lost video cards, but if the conditions are there, losses could be homes, sentimental value, or in extremely unfortunate scenarios, lives. Thank you for sharing and for adding your voice. You have an important voice here as it is one that knows the severity. I appreciate you taking the time to write this comment.
@@GamersNexus how are you guys so professional? That is a very well written response right there on a very well written and tested video
Might have to show this to the retailer's here selling this case. Looks to me like that the case meets he definition of "electrically unsafe" www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763615.html
All companies make choices like this. We could make cars very safe in accidents by making them into basically tanks, but no one wants to pay the cost of making them into tanks.
Not the companies, not the end-user.
1: GPUs are heavy, you might not even need to unscrew the riser for the hole to degrade to the point where the 12V plane is exposed.
2: The 12V plane might make electrical contact with something even with the nylon screws if the hole is degraded enough.
3: The hole should be plated and grounded.
4: There should not be a 12V plane ANYWHERE NEAR A FUCKING SCREW HOLE.
With manufacturing variance as well, not all holes will align perfectly either on the riser or on the support it attaches too. Misalignment increases the likelihood of threads cutting into the board due to the lateral force. It's just not a safety first design.
A first year engineering student could design a better PCB. Source: Was telecom engineering student.
@@802Garage Shouldn't you be doing CPR on an old Japanese car right now?
Yeah, this is my concern. It may be uncommon, but someone moving one of cases around these around with a GPU causing the riser to wiggle around might change a unit from being very close to a short to shorting. Imagine a GPU in a riser travelling in a car from one place to another slowly nibbling away at the sub-millimeter distance between the screw and the 12V plane. It's essentially a shake-n-bake computer case.
@@Mountain-Man-3000
😂 First time I've heard that. Love it. And yes!
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how Steve and the GN team actually care about consumers and put it all on the line for them, great work guys shame on nzxt
Right? So glad I found GN will forever come here for whatever news, reviews, testing etc that they relase. full transparency on a professional level does nothing but promote sales (usually) shame on all these companies sucks that it always comes down to "us" having to hold the 'big dawg' accountable.
Yep. I ordered from GN and was honestly never going to otherwise. If you have disposable income you sort of have a duty to support good people or at least good deeds.
Meanwhile NZXT has lost me as a customer forever. That's the only solution to such recklessness and they should go out of business. This is a mistake that never should have happened in the first place let alone how they're handling it. It's akin to giving people rubber gloves because a product shocks them. I've probably purchased 90 NZXT cases over the years for personal and customer builds. No longer. I don't care what customers may want now. NZXT is finished.
Few channels would be willing to burn bridges like GN, they would kowtow to the corporations. Speaks volumes about GN's character that they are valuing safety more than dollars.
Cue applause! Way to go Steve and team.
Ok, manufacturers. When reviews turn into an episode of Electroboom... you have a PR problem on your hands.
The corpo PR did not speculate how blunt and bold gamernexus would be.
Should've known when he said their "i" version of casings are useless piece of shits.
Looks like it's ready to blow up in their face
Absolutely, lol the incompetent designer needed to watch more @electroboom
Lol great channel, but sadly you're 100% right.
An additional factor around the screw eroding the PCB material. That slot is expected to contain a heavy graphics card. The case is a small and relatively portable case. It's reasonable to expect that people may transport it to a friend's house, or similar. Vibration during transport may well cause progressive erosion of the hole, as it restrains movement of the graphics card.
Good point.
I am now kinda curious is a similar noob error can be found on NZXT's N7 motherboards.
And then the question is weather enough copper could be exposed to make a contact without a metal screw
Yes, shock testing was not done on that hastily chosen fix either. The screws will be loaded in shear by the graphics card weight. Nylon screws (especially ones stretched by over tightening) are not durable. Shock and vibe over time will lead to failure of the nylon screws and ultimately replacement by metal screws.
I'd say that depending on the actual weight of the graphics card such erosion/breakup could happen in virtually no time. It would only take the car bumping once on the road on whatever blockage that is there and you've got a riser card not only rendered useless, but instead turned into a blaze source.
I just went through a house fire in December (unrelated cause) and even when you dont lose every single item you own its still a nightmare. Suddenly I am displaced, I lost thousands in belongings, and where I set up my life is suddenly a black husk. Its not something id wish upon anyone. You are doing something important here for sure GN.
Devastating to hear these stories because we nearly had a bad one a few years ago. I know the fear but not the loss. I hope things will improve soon, and I appreciate your message.
House fires are *never* a laughing matter. I’ve lost a good friend of mine in a house fire caused by a faulty PSU in a desktop (this is why you don’t skimp on PSUs, guys).
Very disappointing to see NZXT treat this without the urgency and seriousness expected given what’s at risk
6 years ago our house burnt down, and the devastation it brings to your life is immeasurable. Family pets died and we lost everything. The whole family had to live in a 1 bedroom flat for a few months waiting for insurance and to rebuild the house. As the op said you're doing important good work
Hope things improve for you soon, sorry that happened to you bud
I wish you the very best pal, hope you recover very soon from this devastating event.
next email from NZXT
"Due to the current situation, we have decided to not send you any "FE" NZXT cases in the future.
We would be happy to revise it, should your editorial direction change.
NZXT"
would it help if they covered how beautifully the light radiating from the flames was ray traced?
Lol ! like GN cares anymore...... 😉
@@misterthegeoff9767 my iPad could only see that image @10fps, I need an nvidia gpu for this
They can do that... But that doesn't stop him from buying retail. 😂
this is going into disappointment PC 2021 and it's not even the end of January lmao
As being product liability investigator I completely understand and feel your passion! Wow ...Funny you mentioned the Ford Pinto defect. Our office worked this case back in the day and it was found to be a SHEET METAL SCREW, when rear ended, punctured the single walled fuel tank. Fuel tanks are now double walled. Our company worked directly for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Peterbuilt and several more back in the day. NZXT is NOT the only company to be mentioned here!! The manufacture of the cable needs to be at the forefront! JayZ is correct, companies unfortunately do not address the issue til the issue becomes financially larger then the fix! “AT THE PRICE OF A LIFE” on most cases. And yes ... how sad is that?!?! The proper statement for NZXT would have been “TEMPORARY FIX”.. what they should be doing is reaching out to customers and insisting they immediately stop using the product and return for repair OR refund no matter the cost! Attorneys list everyone associated with the company in lawsuits!! Even if they were no where connected to the defect. And now that you are addressing this, even in a positive way and we’re affiliated with NZXT, you would most likely be listed as well. How crazy does this sound? Very! It’s deep pockets.... anyone who has $$. You would most likely be dropped off the suit. Seen some crazy law suits. The plaintiff attorneys are like locus! NOT ONE LIFE SHOULD BE LOST PRIOR TO A MANUFACTURER TO TAKE ACTION ON A KNOWN DEFECT!!!!! It’s all about the $$. Companies knowing their product has a defect that can cause injury or death and not do anything bout it til the law suits come, is in my eyes, MANSLAUGHTER / MURDER. Good job Steve! You’ve made difference!
Reminds me of the waterslide "Verrückt" that decapitated a 10-year-old boy. It wasn't even designed by engineers; it was designed by the park owner. During testing, the rafts would go airborne, but they opened the ride anyways. They knew it was bad, but they didn't want to fix it out of greed.
send it to rossmann we would love to hear him tell us every reason that they are stupid for 5 hours straight
Making 10 consecutive videos like with the gamestonks thing and comparing it to apple running a 50 volt line next to a cpu data line
@@irvingchies1626 was it CPU, I thought it was LCD that had a 50v line next to data
I won't buy nzxt ever.
@@quiveringcalm4697 It was a line going directly from CPU (or signal switch if you were lucky and had a separate GPU on board) straight to LCD.
YES
“...our ability to burn bridges...” and a riser cable is used as a bridge for a mobo and gpu. So good!
Oh thats classic 🤣
Their pun game has been noticably strong as of late. It makes me happy.
I'm genuinely surprised by the response by NZXT. I'd imagine that their legal department would be terrified over the potential liability in this situation, but apparently not.
I suspect that the "It was not being used as sold" defense would be used for that. Manufacturer can't be held responsible for your modified usage
Its all about money, risk of retaliation by lawsuit/fines vs how much it will cost to recall and fully fix. Any business does this all the time
no, I'm betting they did an analysis and calculated how many units sold vs how many building will burn down and said "This is fine"
@@chrisfortune1813 Considering that you have to set up and configure a case anyway, this wouldn't fly at all in front of a judge. That's like saying Lego kits could be defended with that.
@@afelias I was not trying to say they were right but pointing out a previously used and accepted defense of this type of this from other industries, notably the auto industry. An extreme example would be drinking bleach, the producer can't be held responsible for you if you do that even though it is physically possible to drink a fluid. This is why this kind of work by GN is so important, companies will take a fix that covers them rather than fix the problem if they think they can get away with it.
As an electrician, I find electronics so fascinating. This is where your knowledge of electrical theory and troubleshooting shines. I really appreciate Everyone in this video shedding light to the dangers of electricity, and how easily a happy moment could’ve turned out otherwise. Watching you guys work it out inspired me to build my first pc. Now I’m hooked.
That was the most pissed off ad spot I've ever heard Steve deliver.
There are 2 fundamental flaws in the PCB. 1) The screw hole is not even a proper size for the screw being used. 2) There is no copper "keep out" around the screw hole. One of the first thing I was taught about creating PCB layouts was to place "keep outs" around holes and connectors where you do not want accidental contact. This is beyond lazy and is absolutely dangerous as has been demonstrated.
interesting..
That's NZXT for you.
and that's why they didn't put any plating in the screw hole, it would short the Damn thing, it's madness.
Yes, the part librarians should have added courtyard to the screw hole, but even with that, DRC on the drill lyr should have automatically pulled back the filled zones. My guess is they designed it with a smaller hole and then drilled a larger one in production.
@@endless2239 A plated through hole would not have had this issue, as it's got GND layer near power planes and that's like the first DRC rule you set (distance from filled zones to other nets). The issue here is that the through hole is unplated and it drills through a copper pour (filled zone) on another layer, which would not be caught by the edge cuts DRC, nor the filled zones / traces DRC (which would have caught the plated through hole). The issue is that they didn't pull back the filled zone based on the drill layer, which is pretty odd, IMO. I suspect they designed a smaller hole by mistake, everything passed DRC, but then they realized it was too small and upped the drill size in production or after the PCB was made as a sepearate step.
Anyone else love when Steve calls out these companies on their bullsh!t ? It’s incredibly entertaining and interesting.
it is, and it gives me immense respect for steve and the whole GN team. sub'd originally for the product reviews, stayed for the industry accountability pieces
It's why I like channels like Thunderf00t, also because raging nerds are great fun 😎
Or anyone else knowledgeable just shutting bullshitters down, especially when it also saves me money 🤘😁
Now if we only had a Steve for politicians.
@@ebolawarrior451 I think there's many politicians who start with the noble goals, but often they have to play the game to get into position to affect change. By the time the get to position they've become compromised. Moral leaders resign, so the selection bias of lifelong politicians are either those without major backbone or those who love the corruption.
Now the video is dead and people have forgotten.
Send this video to UL and US National Fire Protection Agency. The biggest concern for UL is fire.
What is UL ? (sorry, I'm not American)
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 UL is a safety testing lab. In the US we don't require UL like Europe Requires CE. The situation is you can be more easily sued if you release a harmful product to the public. UL stands for Underwriter Laboratories, who comes up with safety standards like IEEE and NFPA, National Fire Protection Agency, ANSI and ISO safety (and CE now) to determine safety tests and standards. A manufacturer gets certified to meet the standard if they choose, at their expense. A fundamental rule is a single point failure can NOT produce risk to the end user, most importantly, No FIRE. If your product is not UL, then the end user can not get insurance on their home/business as you are putting unsafe stuff in the building, so most manufacturer s get UL.
Hell, I just finished the video and you showed it right there. Copper strands were visibly protruding from the pcb. If one of those strands is pushed into the exposed threads as you screw it down, then it will burn down at first start up. If the power supply malfunctions, then it becomes an area of heat buildup if the circuit doesn't terminate properly. This is REALLY bad. And just because reported cases are not common now, doesn't mean that they won't be increasing in frequency and severity over time
NZXT realized that their cases were already brick ovens, so they decided to make the H1 a literal pellet stove.
I mean... someone's gotta compete with the KFConsole right?
Rocket Stove!
Ive designed my own PCBs both for etching myself and also for fabrication by services like JLC now you can get them professionally made for cheap prices. Adequate clearance for traces around holes and away from edges is a basic part of design. Having any trace, let alone one capable of delivering significant current, go anywhere near a screw hole is a ridiculous error to see in a commercial product.
Also the hole is undersized. I would never spec a hole to be effectively tapped into by a screw. The hole should be ~0.5mm wider than the screw so the PCB is clamped down on rather than screwed into. This is super basic design stuff that even I, as a hobbyist, would never get wrong in my own projects. Or if I did, I'd bin the PCB and start again.
Well said, i guess NZXT are complete amateurs.
Adding to this, most applications can run a basic clearance check, even open source apps like Kicad can detect a fault like this. This feels like someone moved a pcb through-hold or widened it without running any automated checks.
This sort of thing is common in CAD and software, because people are rushed and QA isn't heavily enforced. Someone clearly didn't understand the weight of their design decisions, nor the liability if they failed in their designs.
Most EDA systems will automatically add keepouts around screw holes, you dont even have to do it manually. And I agree, tapping a PCB with a screw is just plain retarded. There is literally no reason to do this.
Yep, came here to leave the same comment. This is just plain horrible design. Every single PCB design tool I've ever used (whether free or professional) by default runs DRC and will not allow you to have traces near a screw hole. There's always a designated keepout zone, and you have to make a conscious effort to work around it. Even having a screw thread into the hole shouldn't result in any copper being exposed.
This looks like absolutely trash design + someone spec'd the wrong screw.
My suspicion would be that this PCB was made without any screwholes originally, and thus there was never any hole to be checked for in DRC, and NZXT got a bunch of these holeless PCBs in inventory for whatever reason... and then someone got the "bright" idea that they could just drill holes in these holeless PCBs.
I'm normally just a lurker, and no one will probably see this, but this just made me straight up sick to my stomach. This is gross negligence at the highest level. As many others have pointed out, 10 cases are 10 too many. The sheer fucking incompetence and carelessness displayed here should be all the evidence anyone ever needs. They say they can't see what the problem is, yet they ship nylon screws. I am never buying an NZXT product till the day I die
I am also a lurker, and congrats on the likes 👍🏻
Also I’ll be doing the same. I’ve never seen a PC company pull this kind of crap.
It really is baffling that registered companies such as them are legally able to sell fire hazard products? What if I child is building his first computer and leaves it on over night? The house could burn down and the child could be fatality hurt, this needs legal attention, and the products should be banned.
@@reposter6434 not only a child. If i build a new computer and i put it on and leave it running my house can burn down, could also kill anyone including kids in the house, or the house of the neighbours. And its not that they didnt know. And its not something i would actually think about. I leave my pc running a lot even when im not around to dowload a game for example. Wich would be very likely on a new build pc. You just build it, it posts and so you start it up and let the thing install al the things you want on it and you can do something else in the meantime. Now appearantly you cant because it might catch fire...
@@gabbermaikel this is true, it's reasons such as this that console players mainly stick to there LIMITED! console, and tbh I can see why, if companies can't be trusted to make safe working componenets why should they? Not saying all the brands are bad, it's meerley just this one, however new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget, and this is the type of thing new builders will choose, it's not safe and shouldn't be on the market, plain and simple.
@@reposter6434 What do you mean with "new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget" If you mean that new builders tend to go with a more low budget spec for their build then i could possibly agree yes. But if you got for a budget spec build you wil NEVER EVER touch a nzxt H1 as they are €350. I think that is actually in the top of the range price wise. And yes i know, it includes the aio cpu cooler and the power supply. But there are a lot of cases that would come in a lot cheaper then this even if you bought a expensive psu and a 240mm aio cooler(and this only has a small aio)
NZXT continuing to prove they have the hottest cases on the market
This legit would be a post on NZXT Twitter lmaooo
I have a feeling they will keep digging. NZXT don’t seem to understand how bad this will hit their reputation
Wondering would GN have the honour of being blacklisted by yet another firm
Wear it like a badge of honor, pass it around and share it
@@GamersNexus I wanna hold it next !
Being blacklisted is a pro in this case. Potentially prevents your store buisness from burning down. And it costs less then fire insurance !
@@GamersNexus This needs to make it into a set prop in the background
I think NZXT is desperatly trying to get the January-Slot for the 2021 disappointment shirt.
It's not easy with everything that happend so far, but maybe they escalate it even further in February to grab that slot.
I guess we have to see and wait for what they are up to.
Customer: Hey NZXT, my house is on fire
NZXT: Just Blow Hard
*insert laugh track*
I'm wondering if all riser cards are built like this. NZXT might not be the only people who are making riser cards like this.
@@christopherkidwell9817 There are definetely products out there which do not have this problem.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Fortunately no. This is someone failing at safety testing of creepage during design. I wonder if they are UL rated under EN 61010 or EN 60950 or EN 62368, probably not.
Nice job.
This is going to be used as an example in a university PCB design class. It's just too perfect. "This is what can happen when you override your clearance rules"
It already was. i first saw this video on our first pcb design lecture at university. I study to be an electric engineer.
Product code "This is fine" hahaha
The MEME this is fine is one of my favorites and it fits so well for this NZXT product hahahahahahaha...
I was about to also comment on this lmfaooo
hahaha
"That's pretty cool"
GN needs to be more careful with its puns. Somebody could get burned.
This isn’t just an “oops” mistake, this is complete negligence by an Electrical Engineer, and further negligence by the company to immediately fix the situation the correct way. This product needs to be reported to the relevant US government agencies so it can’t be sold.
This was probably designed by their newest intern.
I mean when these companies try to squeeze every cent just to make a product, this is what you get, as the saying says “what is cheap could end up being more expensive “
Let's be real here. The electrical engineer probably didn't design this to be possible. Somewhere up the command chain someone decided to save money by using a cheap riser instead of a sturdy one.
its poor design, but in testing, it might not have come up cause it may not have been broken by the screw to get exposed.
@@Troonielicious Problem being this is the opposite of cheap, you pay just over 300€ for a case with a potentially fatal flaw
Imagine shipping plastic screws instead of addressing the problem.
Plastic screws aren't that cheap as well...
cheapest and fastest "solution"
@@AaronShenghao 4 plastic screw is like 1dollar or less.
Well, plastic fix the problem.
They would need to properly design the PCB. Clearance hole that is larger than the used screw and use proper keepout zones to have no traces right next to the hole. Even the basic throughhole in EAGLE won't let you get close to it even with 0mil clearance rules. And DRC would scream at you anyway. So no idea how they even managed to spin up that board.
To me this looks like a 100% NZXT botch-up, not the riser card supplier's fault.
Seeing that there are multiple fixation holes in the card, I would argue that this is an off-the-shelf, general OEM product whose holes were not designed for screw assembly (probably rather for plastic pins). Also, the "PCB dust" is a clear sign that the holes are too small for the screws -they should only dig into the metal case, but never into the PCB. Screws work by pressing the PCB against the case with the force being created through the thread digging into the latter one, but never by forcing a counterthread through both components, because here one could never ensure a snug and flush fit and control the tightening force, which is a key parameter to warrant a correct fit. There's a good reason almost everyone (especially car manufacturers, but also your trusted mainboard or SSD brand) give you a torque value for tightening the screws.
So, total NZXT failure - designers integrating an unsuitable component, issue remaining undetected by design reviews and QA, PR disaster.
Ah nice, we already have the first topic for the 2021 disappointment tour shirt
I like angry Steve. Angry Steve is justified and a hero.
Dude is no fucking hero
@@b85douglas more hero than you
@@b85douglas I don't even know your name lol
@@b85douglas You a NZXT employee?
@OGgieBOOgy302 without people like this you'd be spending your hard earned money on absolute trash. So at least acknowledge his persistent efforts if "hero" tilts you that much.
What's happening here is a high impedance fault. The 12 volt rail near the screw is connecting to ground when the short is occurring. They are relying on the case being grounded and the screw being bonded to the case. The problem occurs because their is a weak connection to ground through the pcb to the screw and to the case. This creates a short to ground, but the resistance is too high to create enough current to trigger any over current protection. The screw hole should be shielded all the way through creating a strong connection to ground if there is a short. The 12 volt rail shouldn't be anywhere near that screw hole. This is a bad design. High impedance faults are dangerous because fires and electric shock will occur even when safety measures, such as fuses and circuit breakers are used. This being only 12 volts means you won't get a severe shock, but if you had this type of design flaw in a higher voltage device, such as a lamp or a toaster or a washing machine a person would be electrocuted to death if a short occurred. Even a circuit breaker or fuse would not save you. This pcie riser needs to be recalled right away.
Hi Roger. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise and knowledge. We can do decent troubleshooting, but don't have the vocabulary or EE foundation you seem to have. I really appreciate the extra knowledge. It may prove useful if we revisit this topic again.
One problem, the company is not going to do the safety recall that unless government agency intervenes.
Next level bad design for sure, bargain bins at shenzhen are probably better than this. Larger clearance around the mounting holes (which is usually default in most cad sw) and increasing the drill dimensions of them would probably solve the issue completely, not even bothering with plated holes if they wanted to be cheap about it.
@@xericicity I think they went for unplated holes because they were aware of how close that 12v trace was to the screw point, if you're manufacturing other parts with plated holes then switching to unplated is more costly than just reusing the same plate process, this whole mess was deliberate.
@@FilmFlam-8008 The key here is that it's a specific kind of short. If it were a low impedance short (like dropping a screwdriver on the back of a GPU and bridging the power pins on the 8-pin PCI power connector), it would have lower resistance (impedance) and higher current, and would trip the OCP of the PSU. Like that wire you see Patrick using with the power supply. As soon as he turns it on, it current limits to 4A. The computer PSU would shut down.
The issue here is that the resistance of the short is too high to trip OCP, therefore the PSU can deliver it's specified current and OCP is not tripped, causing a fire.
I lost a very good friend due to a house fire.... this whole issue gives me chills and pisses me off.
AMD Fans: Nvidia/Intel runs hot!
Intel Fans: AMD runs hot!
Nvidia Fans: AMD runs hot!
NZXT: Amateurs.
NZXT: I'M ON FIRE!
@@bacintom That was a good thing in the 90's along with being "da bomb". Now both of those gets you put on the terrorist watchlist. Welcome to the Brave New World of Covid 1984!
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
nice profile pic
"If not only for morality, at least for liability, NZXT should be replacing all of these PCIe risers."
Now that's a fucking burn 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Somewhere at NZXT, there's an accountant weighing the cost of a lawsuit against the cost of replacing the riser cables for 40-60% of the H1 cases sold ('cuz roughly half of H1 owners won't know about the issue or won't bother requesting a replacement).
nah burning is what the CASES are doing
It's insane that somebody else did all the research for free and provided the company with a solution, and they still refuse to fix it properly.
KFC: ”-This PC heats a chicken!”
NZXT: ”-Hold my beer!”
KFC PC warms your chicken....
NZXT flame grills your chicken....(or is NZXT going to build a case for Burger King???)
More like "Boil my beer!".
NZXT: This PC heats your house
I will never, ever buy an NZXT case. Thank you for pointing out this dangerously defective product and the unbelievably faithless response by the manufacturer.
Their cases like the 710 and 510 and fine but their response is ehhh
@@venom9370 "Ehhh" is if they took a week to respond. This is all completely dangerous, childish bullshit from a company that would still love to be paid for it.
@@jonathanelliott1338 I meant it relatively
Just an observation here: The original metal screws appears to be of the "self-threading" type. (Identified by the slight triangular shape of the screw instead of cylindrical)
That would be VERY bad.
Self-Threading screws are DESIGNED to eat away material in order to create threads for said screws. When my dad was teaching me to assemble PCs he specifically told me to: "Never place those screws directly in contact with any PCBs. EVER."
Obviously he said this for the very reason demonstrated in these videos.
Yeah... I really don't understand why they did that. When you screw mother board for example to the case, hole in mb is just an hole for screw to go trough, actual screw is tightened into the case. I mean that is the standard way to do it, why the heck would they make the hole smaller?? It just seems like such and basic thing and very clear design flaw. The very least they could do is to call back current design and replace the risers, and ofc extend that offer to people who bought the case. Even if you replace the metal screw, the pcb is already damaged if at some point metal screw was used for the riser. It just the metal debris could cause the short.
It's such an stupid mistake. They would have noticed the issue with prototypes or first assembly.
It is also standard practice to keep copper fill and any pcb traces at least a few millimeters away from the screw head size. So it's also highly negligent on the PCB designers part.
@@oliverer3 Fully agreed. That's what I do on my PCBs to prevent exactly this situation. A 'route-keepout', or 'copper pullback' are the usual EDA terms.
That’s honestly pretty interesting. It’s also interesting how BADLY they fucked up by decided to use self-threading screws.
I'm amazed at the amount of scientific inquiry you guys have made into this issue. Makes me appreciate the lengths you guys go through to bring awareness and impart some knowledge to the PC Building community. Kudos to your efforts! It was highly interesting the way you built this experiment and demonstrated the 12V to Ground short with an external "sacrificial wire". Loved it!
At some point lawyers could get involved.
Then it is up to GN to show that they have done things properly and this is all NZXT's problem.
This puts your case thermal tests in a whole new perspective.
Lmao you made my day
Now that you said it...
"Use code THISISFINE"
I fucking love the tongue-in-cheek
the digging into the pcb probably also strips the coating on the metal screws, it might be a rare issue but over time all the factors just stack up to make it more and more dangerous. FR4 pcb material has glas fiber in it which is very abrasive (same reason they use tungsten carbide drills for it during manufacture)
Exactly, yes. It's a really brief clip in this long video, but we showed the threads turning silver as the coat got stripped. You nailed it!
@@GamersNexus Nailed it? Wait, I thought we were suppose to use screws?!
@@ClammyCement you have now caught on fire
Those coatings aren’t highly insulating in the first place so that itself isn’t a problem. Though wrong screw hole size is one.
I can honestly say that seeing stuff like this and how the company responded I will never buy any NZXT products. Absolutely ridiculous.
They'll probably ignore it until someone gets hurt or someone's house actually catches fire.
there's a chance there will be change in direction after this
@@carlangelo653 true. i mean almost all incidents in the world are like that.
I was considering building a system on this, now fuck no, especially after seeing how they're reacting to this. I will not be supporting a company like this.
Same, NZXT has lost my business and many others should look at this before giving their money to a company that treats their customers like they have
Don't buy nzxt ever.
It's a terrible case even without the fire hazard. In the Optimumtech review, even a 2070 Super goes above 80+ degrees C.
@@gabo007x1 wow didn't know that. I'll have to search for a proper good one as I'd like to get a 3080 and a R5800x in a mini ITX build
@@joaovarela4854 With those components, the Coolermaster NR200P is a very solid choice (around 18L). If you want to go smaller, the Ncase M1 is also excellent (around 12L) but it's a much more pricey "boutique case". Those two should be able to keep things cool and relatively quiet, with other sff cases you will most likely have to sacrifice cooling and / or noise performance.
Even youtube knows what's currently going on by recommending this old video
Yes! Been looking forward to this after yesterday's community post.
I love your guys passion to this hobby. Especially when it comes to safety like this kudos to all involved at GN.
Hey Steve from 3 years ago, your never gonna believe this lol....
I can hear the anger in some of the inflections in your voice. Love your passion.
This one was pretty upsetting because it really felt like they weren't listening to how serious it is.
@@GamersNexus They know, but saving lives don't make their big investors happy.
Great video. Not only did I learn something, but I was able to fully understand how they cut corners here. Kudos to Patrick being on camera. I know it was a more serious topic, but you guys play off of each other well. Hope to see more of you guys working on stuff like this together on camera!
Patrick and Patrick are excellent sources of knowledge. Definitely planning more appearances. They do excellently to balance the gaps in my own abilities and should improve our overall content by taking over certain parts of analysis. Thanks for your comment - it'll be encouraging for both Patricks!
@@GamersNexus In anything you're passionate about, it always pays to surround yourself with people who are better than you at some things! Glad to pass along some good vibes to you guys.
5 days ago, purchased th H1. I really love the formfactor, friend showed me ur first vid of this series, i was concerned, got my multimeter 2 check, sure enough, same issues with the riser and mangled nylon screws. Now saw this vid, packing the H1 back up to return it as we speak.
Get a Be Quiet 500DX, great case :)
There's a few things that are a bad idea in life, like pursuing Lu Bu in dynasty warriors, or cooking bacon with your shirt off. But one thing you *NEVER* do, is tell Steve that he's wrong about a PC case.
Finally! Steve joins the ElectroBOOM army! He said he wants to “RECTIFY” the NZXT
😂
Is the fix a zenor diode ?
Bro I haven't heard of ElectroBoom in so long...
we should get them together. instead of the thin wire used in this video they'll just use his body.
@@stagdragon3978 but then the fire would start in the case, as he is the STRONGEST LINK
Another way to describe this for people who don't quite understand voltage: electricity wants 2 touching points of metal to be at the same voltage. If 12V touches ground (0V), then a massive amount of electric current flows in an attempt to equalize that voltage. The result of that massive current flow is a huge amount of heat and a fire.
Yep, Ohms law is V = IR
If two things are in direct contact (12V plane and ground), R approaches 0.
That means I (current) approaches infinity. But typically whatever is bridging the link (in this case the thin wire) burns up before that happens and breaks the connection.
Another thing to note is that even if the mobo isn't in the tray for some reason, you still have 12V shorted to your case through the motherboard tray and case itself. So if you touch even the outside of the case and something electrically connected to ground (say, opening a window latch or something), you could electrocute yourself if you're using a cheater plug. SUPER DANGEROUS and definitely worthy of a recall.
Even if you're not using a cheater plug you'd be creating a short from 12V to the Ground part of the power plug via your case which could also start a fire.
Connecting 0V to 12V is like blowing up a dam
@@shanez1215 yup - I was trying to express the concept of ohms law for a non-technically-minded person.
@@Z4d0k is that a quote from NZXT engineers? 🤣
Here's my analogy: When large hedge funds try to artificially short a stock (increase voltage potential), it creates an opening (the screw) for normal people to invest in said stock in an attempt to equalize the wealth disparity (equalize voltage potential) in the modern world (the circuit) until the rich people complain because wealth is flowing (current) to the poor people (ground point) too quickly and gets the brokerage companies (overcurrent protection) involved and stop the transactions (open the circuit).
"We show our methodology in the back half of the video"
And as we were all taught in school, always show your working for extra marks
Appropriate comment, as Stone previously worked as a teacher!
Extra!? I've only come 'cross pushing for shown work being required, still shirked that mostly anyways. haha
every prebuilt company should make their pcs like steve is buying them
And they hated Tech Jesus, for he spoke the truth.
Long live tech Jesus
Amen
Cant trust a company who puts fans against a metal front panel as aesthetic upcharge. In all seriousness, great job as always. Shoutout to Mr. Stone, what a wonderful addition to the team and great presentation for all viewership to understand, regardless of knowledgebase
The dude has a calm confidence that is awesome. Great talented guy.
@@thetalesofdaneandco its great to see. Confidence. Not arrogance/ego. Just a genuine swagger. Need more of it on the platform
@@Rance53 I think Anthony Young of LTT exudes the same style and leans a bit more into the swagger category, but calm confidence is such a nice thing to see. Experts who can feel secure in their expertise.
@@thetalesofdaneandco Anthony is great. That dude knows sooooo much, he's an OG nerd. every video that has him in the thumbnail, gets a view and i'm never disappointed.
Can't trust a company. _Ever._ Profit always comes before your lives.
They'd set all of your houses on fire if it made their stock prices rise.
Mr Stone comes across as a wealth of knowledge, and was refreshing to hear his take on diagnosing the riser
Thank you for the kind comment! I'll pass it along to him. He has the deductive reasoning skills needed for a complex issue like this one.
Let me be clear, I'm not trying to simplify people down to analogous people, everyone has their own personality and I like most of them. That being said, Mr. Stones expertise, presenting style and calm confidence remind me of LTT's Anthony Young, which is a compliment just to be clear. Fantastic talented guys.
And now NZXT has gone even further downhill (their computer rental program). Have never bought a NZXT product before (no particular reason, just never happened), but I sure as heck never will now.
"NZXT has met enough of a slime prerequisite to head up a hedge fund now" lmao
Sludge fund
A different but effective way of shorting your stock.
Or gov.
I appreciate the efforts you've gone through to ensure safety for consumers and repeatable results for NZXT.
I agree with your assessment that cases often don't stay with one person for their entire life cycle, and rarely with one build.
A quick look at facebook marketplace and ebay will show people moving cases on, even specifically the H1, and there is no acknowledgement of this issue in listings.
Expecting consumers to retain pertinent knowledge indefinitely (especially when NZXT is downplaying it) could genuinely lead to damage of property and in extreme cases loss of life.
It is possible that this is a design issue, or even a shortcut made intentionally, but regardless of whose fault it is, this level of danger is unacceptable. NZXT is culpable.
You're so right - Here, I would like to add that a single case of fire could result in an "extreme" case. Mass death.
The Grenfeld tower disaster was caused by a faulty refrigerator. One spark is all it takes to kill everybody above in a high-rise building.
imagine being a first time builder only to burn your house down on accident... jesus christ. this is crazy
18:26 your camera operator needs a raise for that ninja level zoom and focus action
lmao fr xD
I busted out laughing at that coupon code, and I know it wasn't just me.
Yep 🤣
Yeah I lost it when I saw that. Such a subtle, but critical blow to NZXT
This is fine hahahahahahhaha
I’m a hardware engineer. This can be completely resolved with a simple PCB revision. Good spot that the revision on the PCB hasn’t changed. This is just laziness and fear of scrapping material.
Agreed 100% I'm glad someone in the comments said this.
I am willing to bet it wasn't a laziness but a decision by management when they considered how much it's going to cost if recalled...
Don't buy nzxt ever., and or put metal plates in the screw holes.
Oh yeah. Send this thing to Louis Rossmann. The entertainment value of his reaction will go to the moon.
BORING
Ohhh I'd love to see his reaction
“WhAt MoRoN cReAtEd tHiS gArBaGe?
A ny real estate agent?”
This is an Apple level of design flaw. Reminds me of those Macbooks that have a connector designed with a 12V pin right next to a CPU data pin (in a way no other company does except Apple because reasons) that can kill the CPU if shorted by liquid spilling,
@@thelegendaryklobb2879 LED backlight 52 v next to 3.3v as I recall was one too. Gotta love Apple flaws
I have one of these and its incredible how no one contacted me about this issue, hopefully, I found this youtube video in time to do something about it.
"If the motherboard is not attached to the motherboard tray, then you've broken the circuit."
>NZXT execs eyes start glowing once they realize they can ship plastic stand-offs rather than fix the problem, again.
We'll see if they'd rather ship plastic cables than fix the riser.
In theory a graphics card or other expansions PCI-E Plate will ALSO be ground. and that will connect to the Case in the same way the MB does to the case.... so a new PCB is the ONLY option that should be considered!
The case must be grounded somehow. If it isn't...NZXT will have a bad day in court.
*Ship plastic case instead of fixing the riser*
NZXT after watching this video: Great, let's send some plastic motherboard standoffs.
I literally swear they will do this
It sounds like such an NZXT thing to do here
Because, as everyone knows.. PCB stands for..
Pyrotechnic Contact Bolt.
Puffy-Crispy-Burnt.
Pretty Case Burnt?
and FR4 stands for Fire Rage to the 4th!
The signs were always there
I can feel steves disapointment ..yet nzxt must address this asap
Nope, just never purchase NZXT crap again and spread the word. If they want our houses to potentially burn down, let's return the sentiment in kind and burn the company down into bankruptcy.
It is simply the karma of the golden rule of life. Don't do unto others what you wouldn't do upon yourself.
@@schelba hey im brazillian and i found that amusing
@@schelba NZXT fixed what in Brazil? They probably "fixed" it with nylon screws that they crossthread violently. They FOR SURE haven't remanufactured the defective boards, you can't do this in such a short time, it would take at least 3 months. You seem to be misunderstanding the whole issue. What was expected from them now in January, now that issue was become known, is not to hotpatch the issue and throw the case with a still defective board back on the market, but to take it off the market until they can replace the faulty part completely, and at least promise everyone a replacement riser, not a pair of flimsy plastic screws that can barely hold it in place.
_To say that this pissed us off is a tremendous disservice to the actual emotions we felt here._
Oh yeah, popcorn time!
I almost bought this case for my five year old daughter. How the hell am I supposed to EVER trust this company again when they knew that it could have caught fire and just refused to acknowledge it?
im gonna remove all my nzxt casefans and also the rgb controller, the fans rattle when mounted upside-down anyway, cheap ass liquid bearings... bet it has crappy pcb's too.
@Samurai Shampoo ok boss
@Samurai Shampoo A kid doesnt need clothes too, just cut some holes in a garbage-bag... like srsly.. Every kid has got a smartphone, like that is any different.
@Samurai Shampoo why not? i had my first computer when i was 4(30+ years ago, yikes i'm getting old). its better to start kids off early because the vast majority of kids/teenagers/young adults have absolutely no typing skills or basic understand of how computers work beyond opening a browse because they live on their iphones and ipads.
Don't trust them, a lot of other options out there.
This video is surprisingly still relevant
This is an extremely serious issue. 72 people died horribly in Grenfell tower because of an electrical fault in a fridge.
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 Hello troll farm employee
The big issue with house fires isn't always what sets it off as what sets it off can usually be something that looks pretty small and innocent. They propagate and become even more serious when they are left unattended and/or they spread quickly to other flammable items that make the fire even worse (basically what happened to Grenfell. The fridge started the fire but the flammable cladding made it oh-so-much-worse).
It's why fire risks in consumer products are usually taken very seriously. NZXT clearly didn't get the memo.
@@GhostyInjected Actually the complete opposite, I pay attention, unlike you. If you want to live in a socially-economic broken and emotionally deformed society then that's up to you. Certainly not what I want, since most people are like you, you drag the rest of us people who can think freely down with you
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 don’t hurt yourself
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 lol
"you are not going to make a pc without the motherboard being connected to the motherboard tray"
the verge: hold my beer
"Hold my beer and bring some braces" :D loool
They were right, trying not connecting the case to the PSU all along. :p
The verge needs some wireless anti-static wristbands too
Wow, GN upgraded this to a 2 Patrick video. Shows how important they thought it was.
We wanted to go for a Patrick Hat Trick, but couldn't budget for the third!
With both Patricks out you know it's serious
@@GamersNexus Would that technically be a Pat-Trick?
Engineer: " _how hot do you want your product to be_ ?"
Marketer : " _Burning hot_ 8) "
Engineer: " _uh... Ok_ "
More like
Marketer: Can we make it cheaper by not plating it?
Engineer: it could short, so I wouldn't recommend it
Marketer: who cares? Just make sure it doesn't touch it directly and start selling them!
Let me share the train taught of me as person who builds his own PC-s.
"Wtf is this... a plastic screw... how the fu** is that suppose to hold.
I will just install the riser with one of my extra metal screws.
Ok nice. Job done.
OMG my apartment is burning... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
If it was me, first I'll probably leave a plastic screw in place cause why need to change it?
But then, I'm diy person and do clean my PC every 3 months (my house is the 'too much dust' ground zero!) so I can see my self destroy those plastic screws like no tomorrow
and at some point if I forgot about why plastic screw really in there, I'll change it to metal screw for sure (have ton of those)
yep, plastic screw is just a workaround.
P.S. I'd a solution for myself (well known) forgetful, by stick note somewhere in the case to reminder about fire hazard, but... that also just a workaround too damnit
Lol so true
Yeah I'd open the case, see the plastic screws, puke and immediately replace them with metal screws because who the hell uses a plastic screw in a PC??
RIGHT?!?!
Read that in monotone.
As an former sheetmetal draughtsman, this scares the living daylight out of me (the disrespect of tolerance and hole sizes).
It makes me wonder what other stuff is bad in their equipment as well...
NZXT will be on my naughty list right next to Thermaltake...
Sheetmetal Draughtsman sounds like a really cool profession! Had to look it up.
What did Thermaltake do?
@@nthed16 Want to know as well
Same, though as a computer engineer. Honestly when they were discussing PCB design, and were talking about any software throwing rules violations up the ass for violating a minimum distance to GND/power rail, I realized that they must have done something totally beyond the pale here. It's like this riser was designed as a fever dream somehow.
@@nthed16 GamersNexus explained it here: ua-cam.com/video/vhkYcO1VxOk/v-deo.html
In the credits at the beginning Steve is listed as "Researcher, Shouts at Clouds"
Edit: not yelling
Accurate lol but screw these companies for the lack of liability etc etc etc
Those clouds are the Magic Smoke produced as PCB burns.
This is some incredible investigative journalism and for anyone to say that UA-camrs can’t be as such are inherently stuck within the past. Amazing work to Steve and your team. Your journalism combined with your technical knowledge can and WILL save many people from property destruction and injury/death!
I speak for tons of people. NZXT is now on my "do not and never buy" list.
they had always been out of my price range anyway, so, easy pass for me
Couldnt have said it better myself.
@@jonathanwessner3456 how poor are you lmao
100%, not touching them out of principle. I think the only other company I won't touch is Thermaltake, for ripping off other companies' designs since about 2015 onwards.
That funny moment when you nearly got the NZXT H510i for your build, then did a u-turn and got a CM NR600 instead
"[Patrick Stone] is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher..."
Yeah, he most definitely sounds like one. I could listen to him explaining electrical engineering basics for days.
Time for GN to start up a new series of educational videos, hm? HMMMMM?????
Could throw in collaborations with EEVblog, ElectroBOOM, bigclive, GreatScott, Mr Carlson's Lab, Fran Blanche, TronicsFix
Just to mention a handful of great electronics channels
That's actually exactly why he was hired. They're in the works!
@@GamersNexus I love you guys. Great work Steve! Keep them honest, and if they refuse, light their ass on fire!
@@GamersNexus I'm glad to hear this! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with!
@@GamersNexus That is going to awesome. Ive just recommended your channel to some computer science students.
Companies pay millions to get this shit done, NZXT should be groveling on the ground for forgiveness but instead they think memes will prevent house fires.
"If the consumer forgets the riser is a fire hazard and uses metal screws" U wot m8? The fact that's even a real response from a company as large as them is not only laughable, but downright evil.
8:47 when he simply says "no" It felt like he pretty much was saying "replace the whole fucking riser"
Damn I laughed too hard lol
Wow, the final minutes where you can see the exposed 12v plane, and continuity can be hand-tested with the probe in the screw hole, is pretty extraordinary. I don’t know how something like this even happens; given the last 30+ years of CAD PCB tools have (as mentioned in the video) checks for exactly this type of mistake. Furthermore, any reputable PCB manufacturer should catch this type of problem before a single board is created. The concern I have is that this PCB might be a subcontracted part that’s not unique and thus floating around in other PCI-E vertical mounting kits and cases from other brands. Irrespective of that concern, a recall needs to be issued ASAP.
This might be why they are just offering nylon screw.
GET 'EM.
Seriously, fuck NZXT for trying to undercut y'all with their bullshit.
Edit: HOLY SHIT, DISCOUNT CODE "THISISFINE," MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT.
This is the best channel on UA-cam.
I have the Phanteks riser cable I hope my doesn't have those issues. I use it now for 1 year is still fine. So I don't think my riser cable has those kinda of problems...
Just wanted to say thank you for all of your hard work in cracking down on this issue with NZXT. I got the nylon screws in the mail, installed them, and definitely felt like their "fix" was half-assed. Because of you guys, they are now sending me a replacement riser cable (which I really hope is PCIE 4.0). Groups like you are the reason that consumers can still get a fair shake. Cheers!