This may sound odd, but as a forkliftdriver i know all those lines. I am thinking how to get all the weight working with me instead of working against me at some point. You have to flow the weight, not make the best possible corner. Max can feel this weight just as i can on my forklift. If you can play with this feeling you are better and you can´t copy another drivingstyle. Without the feeling you end up in trouble if you try.
@@Switll72 I know you can´t compare my job to a sport as F1. Haha. But i want to say that in my job i also have to manage weight and corners. Smart driving is key for a good forklift driver. I learned from f1 to be a better driver. Keep the momentum is all Peter is telling us today.
You should ask Max for a live interview video on your channel together about this. I like this intuition & finetuning / braking alignment theme. He loves to talk about this and share his experience and knowledge. Just call his management
Finally a question worth answering. That would finally be a question about RACING. Not the typical: “Hello Max, how are your feelings Coming into This weekend”
F1 interviews are great: "Hey Max how's the car feeling?" "Hey Max do you think you can add a 7th win of the season?" "Hey Max do you think the title could be on again if Checo wins today?"
Fantastic stuff!! Makes me happy. Better than all the inflated speculative crap about Lewis’ contract, Sainz going to Audi in bloody 2025. Who cares. We want to talk motor racing. Thanks again for the real stuff Peter👍😊
@@henrimoll9621onestly a lot of Dutch people actually watch for the sport. A lot of people think we only watch for Verstappen, but that is not true. Even MotoGP races in Assen are packed year after year, a lot are genuinely invested in racing. F1 used to get like 400.000/17.000.000 viewers here, even without Dutch representation. F1 really peaked late 2021 on Ziggo Sport with at least 2.500.000/18.000.000 viewers every race.
@@thedutchexposertrue. Even before Max was a thing, we were invaded by the Dutch army at Spa. We, as proper responsable Belgians then fed them our strong Abbey-beers. Always fun when you put the Dutch and their little southern brothers together. They call us lazy and dumb and we call them cheese head and we get wasted together 😂. Ah, good times, good times
Yes indeed, I keep getting bombarded with endless nonsense about every bit of trivia that pops into someone's head. If you follow it up it is always just speculative made-up rubbish with zero information.
I was lucky enough to watch the great Jim Clark qualify for the 1967 German Grand Prix. His time of 8:04.1 was something like 9 seconds faster than the next-best qualifier Denny Hulme. At the corner where I was watching you could just see that Jim had a 'something' that none of the other greats of the day, Gurney, Surtees, Stewart etc etc had. No surprise then when the track announcer said that he was 9 seconds faster than anyone else.
Well done Mr windsor. I came in during the end of the Bernie era (as a hardcore fan) and before drove to survive. My outlook on f1 was colored by watching hours of old footage and documentaries...I never got the thrill of watching history live. But I learned to respect the sport. It's a technical sport. It's a refined sport, it is detail and dynamics. Thank you for keeping that ethic alive. This sport is meant to challenge you to understand it. Thanks for challenging us.
What a great video to explain how to really go fast. I figured this out when I was racing superkarts and was forced to think outside the square to find extra lap time thanks to a 27km/h top speed deficit. This technique is really important in a superkart because you have a solid rear axle (no differential) so the more you can minimise time spent with the steering wheel turned the better (a turned wheel causes lots of drag on the chassis). I won by 8 seconds in a 6 lap race at the National championships when I figured this out.
His biggest strenght is his ability to adapt and get the most out of a situation faster than anyone else in my opinion. Even when the balance in his car is "off" to his liking, he is still upthere because he just drives around the problems.
@@danielmclellan7762 Did you even watch the video? It is his opinion.. like you have yours.. But I guess that's your lack of manners or maybe even intelligence in my opinion. 🤣
@@danielmclellan7762you posted something on a public forum named UA-cam. So yeah you were talking to him. You should learn some manners, or grow up, or both.
I had trouble understanding how Max handles corners versus other drivers. I wish there were some examples of Max navigating a corner overlaid with other drivers in the same corner.
If you want a better visual representation of this, watch the highlights of the 2023 Spa GP. When Max is chasing down Checo for the lead of the race the camera-work perfectly captures the insane amount of time that Max is able to cut out of Checo's lead by "shortening" each slow/medium speed corner, it's like watching someone try to outswim a shark.
Netflix should hire Peter to put this into their F1 show. I reckon that Formula 1 it self should do this as well in their weekend warm up, pre and post show.
I fucking love Peter Windsor man, wow. He catapults my interest in F1 into a place most people don't go into and as expected, that makes his race, quali, & FP breakdowns better than anybody else's, haven't missed one in at least 2 years.
This is awesome! I was just lamenting on another UA-cam channel why none of these so-called F1 experts have explained specifically why Verstappen is able to extract so much more out of the RB19 than Perez. The two races where Checo started on the front row only to be chased down and outdistanced by his teammate have only served to demonstrate that Verstappen is a far superior driver, but now I know why. Thanks
As someone new to f1 and attempting to learn sim racing, you said a whole lot and it all… made an absolute ton of sense. Thank you for taking the time to word this so you don’t need a physics degree to understand and give visuals when necessary. Just found your channel today, subbed immediately and look forward you future analysis. Thanks a ton, cheers!
No wonder Charles was confused about what max was doing in q1 during the Cannada qualifiers. For those who don't know recently there was a clip that was shared with charles giving live commentary on Max's onboards before the start of Q2.
Very good you found the time to explain why you’re always talking about short corners. Bringing in the time factor to place the false apex ahead of the geometric apex does help a lot to explain the obvious that you have to do all the work before the corner cos at or after is just too late.
Damn it, I've been waiting for this for a long time, great stuff! A long time ago I was totally into sim racing, and I noticed that my way of driving differed heavily from all the others, and from the AI. I always was looking for an earlier apex, late breaking wasn't anything I was looking for, and when I got that right, I was really fast. For whatever reason I thought I will be faster if I only could drive like "the others". After hundreds of hours trying to improve by doing the "real apex line", I gave up sim racing at all. Now, when I see this, and how Peter explains this, I can only grab my head. It's exactly what I did in sim racing, and it's exactly what I do on the real race track (but just for fun). Thx, Peter!
Peter, you drew the traction circle wrong. Braking is on top and acceleration at the bottom. Just think of a pair of fluffy dice hanging off of your rearview mirror that swing forward under braking, and swing backwards under acceleration. Just a small note. 😉 On another note, in an interview of 2022 of David Coulthard with Jos and Max Verstappen it was actually Max who talks about his braking technique and how it differs from Jos. Jos is a classical heavy and late breaker, whilst Max gradually loads up against the ABS actuation point.
@_r0b0warrior_ In that case, you will have gotten left and right the wrong way around. 😅 Just create the circle the way it should be. It isn't rocket science. 😜
This was amazing. I saw all the cheering beforehand (yes i read the comments first) and then realized at the end that i am just as excited as a lot of other comments.
I think the geometric apex was useful when cars or motorbikes didn't have either good brakes or good power or good traction. It was a way through the corner with the least loss of speed, which was hard to regain. Later cars and bikes have so much power and acceleration that getting them as close to straight as quick as possible allows that power to be fully utilized. On a motor bike a geometric line would have the bike leaning over too much for too long. So go in a bit slower, get it turned quicker because it is slower, pick it up and hammer the accelerator. It is the difference in lines between 125 class and Moto GP. It is the same with those thousand horsepower F1 cars, slow it down a bit more turn quicker and hit the power with the car flatter, it might be a couple of kph down on a different car at the same point on the track but you will be straight, and all the power can be used whereas the other car will still have some angle on the car and cannot use all the power.
Hi Peter, Thank you for the detailed explanation. @8:00 you show the false apex towards the top left hand side of the screen. Therefore am I correct in assuming that the corner entry is from the top left hand side and the exit towards the right side of the screen? Waiting eagerly for part 2
I think an important distinction between Go Karts and F1 and all the various open wheelers in between, is the difference of drive and grip amount, and although we want to keep the wheels pointed straight, it’s an important distinction that we do it for different reasons at different power levels. At low speeds we do it in such a way to maintain speed, kinetic energy we already have and we want to hold on to it desperately, while at high levels, we have so much power that we want hurry up and point straight again and don’t want to waste time cornering and try to get it out of the way. This is why go karts and F1 are only partially relevant to each other, even though most F1 drivers grew up on go karts. In the scope of all drive types like open wheelers, road cars, Hypercars, rally, oval racing, the overarching question is; is the power more than the grip or is the grip more than the power? This will dictate how to optimally drive it moreso than it’s macro category. Having go kart roots is only a partially parallel. It’s about drive, it’s about power. Interesting topic as usual Peter.
Great stuff. As always. Love deep dives like this in the technique of driving and how many of the greats differ from the rest in certain crucial aspects. Real curious to what Max would think of your explanation. Would love to know if he thinks about in the same terms. Seems someone who thinks about things but for him it probably more or less comes natural, like you mentioned.
Hi Peter what great explanation about how Max is cutting the corners, you brought light on how i and on how we all drive. I to think that Max keeps the speed on his car and uses the corner to break his speed. He can put traction on the wheels even before he gets out of the corner and then hits the apx circle that you draw at a higher speed. So the middle of his corner is way earlier and he uses the pendulum momentum to save fuel, tyers and throttle his gas. I'ts there on the egde. I do a similair thing without an engine on my race bicycle and am always meters ahead of my fellow cyclist when i cut and come out of the corner and because i'm earlier upright i can put power/rotation on my chain earlier, like a rocket that leaves orbit from the moon. (i'm almost 60 and have cut a lot of corners on the edge and even ran out of some, and raced downhill in the Alpes between motors / cars, it's just a flow of not or a just a bit breaking and use the momentum when you let go of the break as a free fall power push out of the corner, i think motor cylcists know that feeling to, you get so much speed out of that without an engine. On my windsurf board it's the same thing you need to keep up the speed when turning downwind. Same when ice-speedscating you need to exit the corners with higher speed than you enter. I'ts all about balance. Thinking about balance, F1 could make the wheels way less wide...now that would make it very interesting.. :D I love your channel, Thanks!!!
Good commentary! I would add that the early braking serves to transfer weight to the front tires so that they have more grip and then you can squeeze the pedal more as the front loads up (weight transfer). This, of course, also helps with turn-in. The trick is to feel the grip that the front (and rear) have: Keeping weight on the fronts to assist in turning/pointing the car in the direction you want it to go (e.g. the desired exit). And then when you have adequate turn-in to avoid understeering you can then release the brake slowly (relatively speaking) while in the corner, approaching the apex and ultimately to be able to apply power as soon as possible when you are starting to unwind the steering wheel ... again a feel for how much throttle you can apply without breaking the rears loose.
One of the best break downs of this style of driving… I have a hard time explaining this when “coaching” for sim or real life… I’m no coach or pro, just happen to be pretty much the fastest guy in my circle… grew up karting and got to do 2-4 club and SCCA races a year until I was about 30 (yes ran out of funding for expensive motor sports lol).
Well done Peter!! Finally a British person that is positive about Max driving style.. haven't seen that in the British media. I remember the British media bashing any other driver that competes with Lewis: Ted Kravits, Damon Hill, and what about Sam Collins telling on the news Max was hugely overrated. What a total idiot(s). They gonna look like fools if a summary is made of the entirely Lewis bias commentary.
I have never heard any of those people speak badly about Max's quality as a driver. Just expressed their disagreement with some of his racecraft/ the finish in Abu Dhabi. No one serious doubts Max's talent.
@@jacobs-pc8tn best one; /watch?v=yFXO4qyzgDg or /watch?v=-WtoUr9cLEM Max agains Eddie /watch?v=EQOng57y-G8 Crashstappen, Aggressive all made up by the British media.. and even RB had even enough that they didnt speak with Sky due to this Ted Kravitz thingy
Hamilton was/is very hyped by the influential British media, understandable of course considering his nationality combined with the succes he has had. It is just that Verstappen does not get the same ‘respect’, if you want to call it like that. Even when all neutral F1 experts will probably agree that Verstappen right now is driving on a higher level than Hamilton ever did, I also strongly believe that every metric will show This. Hamilton never really had that villain status Vettel, Schumacher and Alonso had and Verstappen currently has.
@@thedutchexposer I disagree with this whole comment. Who are you referring to in the media? Ted Kravitz, Damon, and Sam Collins? Kravitz disagreed with the Abu Dhabi ending and spoke up about the Red Bull cost cap. I think those are fair things to comment on and express opinion about. Damon Hill is notoriously in favor of drivers he consider clean racers because of what happened to him and Schumacher. Max is certainly not that. And Sam Collins I have no idea what you are referring to. But what about everyone else on Sky and F1TV? Karun? Brundle? di Resta? Buxton? Clarkson? These people are not favorable to Lewis in any way. And no serious commentator is saying Max is driving better than Lewis ever did because that is just a silly comment. Everyone is in different cars and in different situations. In terms of villain status, Lewis used to get booed all over. So don't really know where you are coming from on this. But I think Max is a great driver that deserves a huge amount of praise. So not disagreeing with you on that one.
@@jacobs-pc8tn HAHAHAHA are you serous ???? I think if you gave Brundle a chance he will jump into bed with Lewis, Paul di Resta is not even a has been his a never was and cant even comment on Mazipin, Buxton loves Lewis but he is actually the least Bias of them all.
Peter you are spoton in your commentary and have a lot of knowledge! Glad to see someone seeing how good Max is, and it's not only the car.(yes car makes a huge difference, but Perez would maybe be no WC without Max driving there)
in karting modern karts minus the kz shifter. on big race weekends you actually have to start turning in narrower and narrower when the track grips up or goes greasier. it weird feeling you have to apply the steering slowly but earlier . really triangle the apex like vettel. in my mind its like this shouldn't work but lap times don't lie
Highly anticipated video!! especially for the long time fans seeing that there has been almost a decade of confusion and even mysticism surrounding this "school of thought"... however, although this might be a serious attempt at achieving some clarity, this concept still seems somewhat amorphous, to me at least. one of the slight confusions that I suspect most people (as well as myself) might have with this "short" corner philosophy is perhaps how it seems to be at odds with what one would actually label as a "short" corner. The fundamental premise of extending the straights seems to not go hand in hand with this early faux apex, as that seems to require an early turn-in. However, when people think of the anatomy of a corner we tend to acknowledge that it starts with the first application of the brakes and/or the turn-in point (which ever happens first). at best, this seems confusing and at worst incoherent (unless Peter has a different idea of what constitutes a corner; where it starts and ends), as I think most people will probably agree that the further back you push the turn-in and/ or braking point, the shorter the straights and the longer you are technically "in the corner". I guess you can say its merely a matter of semantics however if you engage with the argument as it is presented, you often run into other weird issues like this where things might not follow as Peter suggests that it does. another such issue is that this early faux apex often times doesn't set you up for this diagonal/v shaped line on exit of the corner (that Peter rightly says contributes to an earlier exit) especially in the instances where we don't travel along a larger radius throughout the corner (aka using up more of the track) something that is more synonymous with what Peter identify as a long corner... even though it actually bodes well for higher average speed throughout and after the corner. I would like to see Peter explain and demonstrate why he prioritizes travelling on a shallower arc which often requires more grip (if you recall the traction circle) to travel the same speed as that taken on a wider arch. I figure he might say something about travelling a shorter distance overall but he still has to demonstrate that that actually translates to shorter lap times. Also, while we are on the early false apex thing (final point I promise😅), I'm not sure what is meant when Peter justifies its significance by saying it (i.e. point of maximum rotation) cant happen at the apex because that is too late in relation to the exit. to which I suspect that most if not all drivers would agree that since the "textbook" understanding has the apex as the point at which rotation should end, suggests that majority of the rotation should happen prior to this point, not exactly revolutionary... I guess the obvious point that is being made is that the rotation should end before the "geometrical" apex however at that point it seems Peter is saying you can have your cake and eat it too... in brief, it seems like the idea is that you can have the upsides of a highspeed early but gradual turn-in stretched over a larger distance but also have the upsides of a late/v-shaped line where you get a perfectly squared off diagonal line on exit without over working the tires but none of the downsides of having to travel on a traditionally wider/longer line. well I guess that's the magic, huh? with that said, I regularly try to revisit this idea with the hope that I might uncover that one thing that puts the puzzle pieces together and clears things up, enriching my appreciation of driving however I also want to make the point that Its easy to get into armchair philosophizing without a strong demonstration of our ideas, something that I sometimes get the feeling that Peter is prone to do... not that its necessarily a bad thing, its just that you have to acknowledge the limitations mode of analysis (especially in the cases when Peter refuses to use footage or denigrates telemetry as if he is able to see driver inputs that arent picked up by ultra precise sensors). either way I still hold out on the possibility that he clears up these type of questions in pt.2 or atleast make things more internally clearer/consistent.
I noticed this many years ago that Max breaks quite early, especially for someone who is considered to be aggressive. I understand the 'slow in, fast out' logic but it never made sense for someone who is so on the limit all the time. Makes more sense as I watched him over the years.
Regarding Copse corner, the long corners actually look more spectacular/violent but obviously asking more of the tyre. I wonder if drivers like Max or Charles are slightly slower like 0.005sec in that section than say Carlos Sainz or Alonso
@Peter Windsor are there some good books on theory? I’ve read “Going Faster” and books like that but they are super basic. Wondered if you had any ideas on a reading list for this type of theory.
Fantastic video. Thank you! Love this kind of content it is so interesting and let us mere mortal peek into why these drivers are who they are. It seems like you maybe had reference material or books in the background could you maybe tell us what they are thank you.
The first one is The Unfair Advantage by Mark Donohue. I think the second is Sports Car and Competition Driving by Paul Frere, but I am not 100% sure on that one.
At the 5:12 mark, You mention "maximise performance of the tyre by keeping the red dots as near as possible to the outside of the circle". The diagram is not correct. It only shows a slight improvement over the base case of releasing the brakes and then turning. THE LITTLE RED DOTS SHOUD RUN ALONG OUTSIDE OF THE CIRCLE. That is what Mark Donohue meant by "filling the circle".😀
Hi, Peter you said in the live that if hamilton joined Redbull Max would beat hamilton what are your thoughts on if Max joined mercedes would Max beat hamilton still ?
There's a graphics video of Max, Fernando and Nico's qualifying laps in Canada layered on top of each other that perfectly shows this difference. ( ua-cam.com/video/bXMR1__dOkQ/v-deo.html ) In the breaking zone of every corner Fernando closes the gap to Max (or even goes past him), but every time Max has so much more traction out of the corner, giving him such an advantage onto the next straight. People in the comments were mostly talking about how that proves the straight line speed of the RB, but I keep on trying to tell them it's Max' driving style through the corners of early braking (and settling), slow in/fast out that Jos has tought him from a very young age. So yeah couldn't agree more with your analysis.
Thing is there’s other drivers, driving coaches and former teammates of both Max and Lewis that say they are late brakers contrary to what Peter has been saying. Peter finally clarified the ‘early’ point here so that it makes sense. He’s not really braking easier or earlier per se. He’s still a hard and late braker, he only gets on it ‘early’ to settle the car, but isn’t getting much braking done at that point. After the early and easy application of brakes he’s getting on then as hard as anyone. So calling him an early braker isn’t really correct and it’s just more confusing. Also, In an interview after Canada Horner was telling Jensen how Max is very aggressive, just like Fernando, at getting heat into the tires. Jensen, being a former FA teammate, nodded in agreement. This is contrary to Peters description of max, like Lewis, as having a subtle and light touch and that he says it’s very different to Alonso’s style. Just as the drivers style plays a part, so does the cars handling characteristics. We know the RB is the fastest car overall, traction wise coming out of corners and is also very quick in a straight line. The scenario you speak of is in line with those. Max’s driving style and immense talent no doubt plays a part, but he can only do what the cars allows him to do and how it works best. There seem to be a lot of contradictory opinions out there from drivers and non drivers alike.
Thank you Peter, this is the video I’ve been waiting for. One follow up question: does this mean that a short corner technique is more advantageous in a car with more power than grip (ie. Modern supercar) than it is for a car with more grip than power (ie. Standard kart)?
M Schumacher would change his approach, depending on cars strengths. ie with a less peaky engined car, he would brake early and carry more mid apex speed.
Would it be safe to say that inherent car characteristics intended to favor this technique explain some of the performance disparity between Max and Checo? I’m assuming (from his reputation for being gentile on tires) that Checo favors a much more traditional geometrical apex.
is it just me or did the drawing show a late apex? Late apex meaning closer to the exit straight opposed an early apex being closer to the entry straight.
Verstappens driving style is very unique in F1. All the other drivers like the exact same things, a stable rear end and car that is planted to the ground. Even drivers like Lewis have this driving style of stable rear end and there’s really nothing unique about what he does in the car. He’s just fast and consistent. And that’s not a knock on Lewis just an observation of driving style that he does basically what all the other drivers do but just better. But what Max does, absolutely no one can do lol.
With out a doubt, the best channel for F1.
Couldn't agree more.
Agreed!
True.. (despite the "standwithukraine" message).
@@marcelwijnen9037 a channel can choose to do so and you can choose to boycot it instead of wine about it
Would love to see a more professional studio
This channel definitively sheds a light on aspects of F1 I would not pay attention to. Great job Peter.
Agreed. Others at most get into the tech and mechanics in detail, but Peter also gets into the driving itself.
Certainly Peter brings very well honed perspectives, wisdom and understanding of many aspects of F1.
How about you do this analysis when he doesn't have the best car on the grid. Lecrec is faster in the same car
This may sound odd, but as a forkliftdriver i know all those lines. I am thinking how to get all the weight working with me instead of working against me at some point. You have to flow the weight, not make the best possible corner. Max can feel this weight just as i can on my forklift. If you can play with this feeling you are better and you can´t copy another drivingstyle. Without the feeling you end up in trouble if you try.
you legend! Would love to see a forklift race in Monaco.
@@daarom3472 Well if they strap a 2014-2021 Merc PU on it he would win 🤣🤣🤣
@@Switll72 I know you can´t compare my job to a sport as F1. Haha. But i want to say that in my job i also have to manage weight and corners. Smart driving is key for a good forklift driver. I learned from f1 to be a better driver. Keep the momentum is all Peter is telling us today.
@@FlixTraveler Hahah cool mate I was just teasing the Merc fans didn't mean it in a condescending way ✌✌
@@FlixTraveler Fully agreed to your point. I do the same in daily driving
Incredible discussion and lesson in cornering. Never too old to learn. Thank you so much for this valuable information.
You should ask Max for a live interview video on your channel together about this. I like this intuition & finetuning / braking alignment theme. He loves to talk about this and share his experience and knowledge. Just call his management
I agree. Max is all about Maxplaining and I am sure this topic is something he would love.
Peter is also the least biased British press member out there, so that would suite Max too
Finally a question worth answering. That would finally be a question about RACING. Not the typical: “Hello Max, how are your feelings Coming into This weekend”
Would Max really tell all before he retires?
F1 interviews are great:
"Hey Max how's the car feeling?"
"Hey Max do you think you can add a 7th win of the season?"
"Hey Max do you think the title could be on again if Checo wins today?"
Fantastic stuff!! Makes me happy. Better than all the inflated speculative crap about Lewis’ contract, Sainz going to Audi in bloody 2025. Who cares. We want to talk motor racing. Thanks again for the real stuff Peter👍😊
Dutch reply's: the best! :)
@@henrimoll9621onestly a lot of Dutch people actually watch for the sport. A lot of people think we only watch for Verstappen, but that is not true. Even MotoGP races in Assen are packed year after year, a lot are genuinely invested in racing. F1 used to get like 400.000/17.000.000 viewers here, even without Dutch representation. F1 really peaked late 2021 on Ziggo Sport with at least 2.500.000/18.000.000 viewers every race.
@@thedutchexposertrue. Even before Max was a thing, we were invaded by the Dutch army at Spa. We, as proper responsable Belgians then fed them our strong Abbey-beers. Always fun when you put the Dutch and their little southern brothers together. They call us lazy and dumb and we call them cheese head and we get wasted together 😂. Ah, good times, good times
Well said
Yes indeed, I keep getting bombarded with endless nonsense about every bit of trivia that pops into someone's head. If you follow it up it is always just speculative made-up rubbish with zero information.
I was lucky enough to watch the great Jim Clark qualify for the 1967 German Grand Prix. His time of 8:04.1 was something like 9 seconds faster than the next-best qualifier Denny Hulme. At the corner where I was watching you could just see that Jim had a 'something' that none of the other greats of the day, Gurney, Surtees, Stewart etc etc had. No surprise then when the track announcer said that he was 9 seconds faster than anyone else.
You are one of my free iRacing coaches. Thanks Mr W.
Lol same I need to go try this on Iracing
🤩 Peter your insights on F1 DRIVING are so welcome and missing from other content. Thank you! 🙏
AS ALWAYS, a very detailed and simple explanation of how and why F1 drivers and cars execute their craft! PW has never disappointed!
Well done Mr windsor. I came in during the end of the Bernie era (as a hardcore fan) and before drove to survive. My outlook on f1 was colored by watching hours of old footage and documentaries...I never got the thrill of watching history live. But I learned to respect the sport. It's a technical sport. It's a refined sport, it is detail and dynamics. Thank you for keeping that ethic alive. This sport is meant to challenge you to understand it. Thanks for challenging us.
Been looking forward to this since the camron interview. Great stuff peter.
What a great video to explain how to really go fast. I figured this out when I was racing superkarts and was forced to think outside the square to find extra lap time thanks to a 27km/h top speed deficit. This technique is really important in a superkart because you have a solid rear axle (no differential) so the more you can minimise time spent with the steering wheel turned the better (a turned wheel causes lots of drag on the chassis). I won by 8 seconds in a 6 lap race at the National championships when I figured this out.
The ultimate short corner videos are finally coming! Love it, Peter!
What a superb explanation. I can't wait for part 2. Thanks, Peter, for yet another great video.
Cheers.
Wonderul. Could not ask for a better link to the heart of F1 driving than you. Ever grateful for your skills as a journalist, communicator and friend.
His biggest strenght is his ability to adapt and get the most out of a situation faster than anyone else in my opinion.
Even when the balance in his car is "off" to his liking, he is still upthere because he just drives around the problems.
@@danielmclellan7762 Did you even watch the video? It is his opinion.. like you have yours.. But I guess that's your lack of manners or maybe even intelligence in my opinion. 🤣
@@danielmclellan7762you posted something on a public forum named UA-cam. So yeah you were talking to him. You should learn some manners, or grow up, or both.
@@twigsagan3857 thanks Dad
@@danielmclellan7762 that is not the cool answer you think it is. Don't make yourself look silly.
@@twigsagan3857 are you still here gatekeeping UA-cam comments
You're getting really good at this mister Windsor!
Some 40 to 50 years of personal experience has its Perks and Mr Windsor is a Gem 💎 that will forever be cherished 🫶🏾
@@coppachahta5488just came here to mention the same thing 😊
I had trouble understanding how Max handles corners versus other drivers. I wish there were some examples of Max navigating a corner overlaid with other drivers in the same corner.
If you want a better visual representation of this, watch the highlights of the 2023 Spa GP. When Max is chasing down Checo for the lead of the race the camera-work perfectly captures the insane amount of time that Max is able to cut out of Checo's lead by "shortening" each slow/medium speed corner, it's like watching someone try to outswim a shark.
Netflix should hire Peter to put this into their F1 show. I reckon that Formula 1 it self should do this as well in their weekend warm up, pre and post show.
This channel just keeps getting better, quality video!
Nice to see Mark Donahue mentioned, I think one of the best ever and a truly great man. I met him as a kid for a can-am race at mid-ohio.
I fucking love Peter Windsor man, wow. He catapults my interest in F1 into a place most people don't go into and as expected, that makes his race, quali, & FP breakdowns better than anybody else's, haven't missed one in at least 2 years.
This is awesome! I was just lamenting on another UA-cam channel why none of these so-called F1 experts have explained specifically why Verstappen is able to extract so much more out of the RB19 than Perez. The two races where Checo started on the front row only to be chased down and outdistanced by his teammate have only served to demonstrate that Verstappen is a far superior driver, but now I know why. Thanks
As someone new to f1 and attempting to learn sim racing, you said a whole lot and it all… made an absolute ton of sense. Thank you for taking the time to word this so you don’t need a physics degree to understand and give visuals when necessary. Just found your channel today, subbed immediately and look forward you future analysis. Thanks a ton, cheers!
This analysis is exceptional, this is what makes watching F1 exciting, Thank you Peter #🇿🇦
No wonder Charles was confused about what max was doing in q1 during the Cannada qualifiers. For those who don't know recently there was a clip that was shared with charles giving live commentary on Max's onboards before the start of Q2.
where
Yeah after he requested to see Max’s onboards he said “I don’t get what Verstappen is doing. I cannot match this exit, exit of turn 2”
Very good you found the time to explain why you’re always talking about short corners. Bringing in the time factor to place the false apex ahead of the geometric apex does help a lot to explain the obvious that you have to do all the work before the corner cos at or after is just too late.
This is what we've all been wanting, thanks Peter
Damn it, I've been waiting for this for a long time, great stuff! A long time ago I was totally into sim racing, and I noticed that my way of driving differed heavily from all the others, and from the AI. I always was looking for an earlier apex, late breaking wasn't anything I was looking for, and when I got that right, I was really fast. For whatever reason I thought I will be faster if I only could drive like "the others". After hundreds of hours trying to improve by doing the "real apex line", I gave up sim racing at all. Now, when I see this, and how Peter explains this, I can only grab my head. It's exactly what I did in sim racing, and it's exactly what I do on the real race track (but just for fun). Thx, Peter!
Thanks!
Amazing! Thank you Peter for teaching us the layman to properly appreciate F1 racing!
Based on your description of Max's cornering style/corner entry technique, it makes sense that he likes an extremely positive front end setup.
As Albon said, when he drove once max car setup , just looking at the steering wheel made the car turn in.
This is just marvelous. Thank you for a very clear explanation, Peter!
Puts me in mind of Sebastien Loeb - he would brake earlier than most drivers but carry more speed through the corner and on to the next straight.
I have been waiting for this subject for a while. Thank you for sharing this!
Thank you Peter! Amazing insight, can't wait for pt 2.
Peter, you drew the traction circle wrong. Braking is on top and acceleration at the bottom. Just think of a pair of fluffy dice hanging off of your rearview mirror that swing forward under braking, and swing backwards under acceleration.
Just a small note. 😉
On another note, in an interview of 2022 of David Coulthard with Jos and Max Verstappen it was actually Max who talks about his braking technique and how it differs from Jos. Jos is a classical heavy and late breaker, whilst Max gradually loads up against the ABS actuation point.
F1 cars don’t have abs. But I get your point. All this is basic racing 101.
@TipoF129B At which point it is, of course, close to the point of locking up.
as long as acceleration and deceleration are on opposite ends, the traction circle is not wrong. just turn the paper around ;)
@_r0b0warrior_ In that case, you will have gotten left and right the wrong way around. 😅 Just create the circle the way it should be. It isn't rocket science. 😜
Wonderful detailed analysis as ever. Thanks for all you do, Mr. Windsor.
This was amazing. I saw all the cheering beforehand (yes i read the comments first) and then realized at the end that i am just as excited as a lot of other comments.
I think the geometric apex was useful when cars or motorbikes didn't have either good brakes or good power or good traction. It was a way through the corner with the least loss of speed, which was hard to regain.
Later cars and bikes have so much power and acceleration that getting them as close to straight as quick as possible allows that power to be fully utilized.
On a motor bike a geometric line would have the bike leaning over too much for too long. So go in a bit slower, get it turned quicker because it is slower, pick it up and hammer the accelerator.
It is the difference in lines between 125 class and Moto GP.
It is the same with those thousand horsepower F1 cars, slow it down a bit more turn quicker and hit the power with the car flatter, it might be a couple of kph down on a different car at the same point on the track but you will be straight, and all the power can be used whereas the other car will still have some angle on the car and cannot use all the power.
Many thanks Peter I'm waiting impatiently for the next video 👍😊 !
So many interesting pieces of information from a master who knows all the greats both past and present 🌞
Hi Peter,
Thank you for the detailed explanation. @8:00 you show the false apex towards the top left hand side of the screen. Therefore am I correct in assuming that the corner entry is from the top left hand side and the exit towards the right side of the screen?
Waiting eagerly for part 2
I think an important distinction between Go Karts and F1 and all the various open wheelers in between, is the difference of drive and grip amount, and although we want to keep the wheels pointed straight, it’s an important distinction that we do it for different reasons at different power levels. At low speeds we do it in such a way to maintain speed, kinetic energy we already have and we want to hold on to it desperately, while at high levels, we have so much power that we want hurry up and point straight again and don’t want to waste time cornering and try to get it out of the way. This is why go karts and F1 are only partially relevant to each other, even though most F1 drivers grew up on go karts. In the scope of all drive types like open wheelers, road cars, Hypercars, rally, oval racing, the overarching question is; is the power more than the grip or is the grip more than the power? This will dictate how to optimally drive it moreso than it’s macro category. Having go kart roots is only a partially parallel. It’s about drive, it’s about power. Interesting topic as usual Peter.
Great stuff. As always. Love deep dives like this in the technique of driving and how many of the greats differ from the rest in certain crucial aspects. Real curious to what Max would think of your explanation. Would love to know if he thinks about in the same terms. Seems someone who thinks about things but for him it probably more or less comes natural, like you mentioned.
Amazing! Great explanation. Thanks Mr Windsor.
Very good explanation again. Thanks Peter
Great piece of content! Very interesting and clear!
.
Thanks for explaining. I could do with some more images to see direction and rotation of the car through a corner.
Hi Peter what great explanation about how Max is cutting the corners, you brought light on how i and on how we all drive. I to think that Max keeps the speed on his car and uses the corner to break his speed. He can put traction on the wheels even before he gets out of the corner and then hits the apx circle that you draw at a higher speed. So the middle of his corner is way earlier and he uses the pendulum momentum to save fuel, tyers and throttle his gas. I'ts there on the egde. I do a similair thing without an engine on my race bicycle and am always meters ahead of my fellow cyclist when i cut and come out of the corner and because i'm earlier upright i can put power/rotation on my chain earlier, like a rocket that leaves orbit from the moon. (i'm almost 60 and have cut a lot of corners on the edge and even ran out of some, and raced downhill in the Alpes between motors / cars, it's just a flow of not or a just a bit breaking and use the momentum when you let go of the break as a free fall power push out of the corner, i think motor cylcists know that feeling to, you get so much speed out of that without an engine. On my windsurf board it's the same thing you need to keep up the speed when turning downwind. Same when ice-speedscating you need to exit the corners with higher speed than you enter. I'ts all about balance. Thinking about balance, F1 could make the wheels way less wide...now that would make it very interesting.. :D
I love your channel, Thanks!!!
Great tips for sim racing too. Thanks Peter!
Good commentary! I would add that the early braking serves to transfer weight to the front tires so that they have more grip and then you can squeeze the pedal more as the front loads up (weight transfer). This, of course, also helps with turn-in. The trick is to feel the grip that the front (and rear) have: Keeping weight on the fronts to assist in turning/pointing the car in the direction you want it to go (e.g. the desired exit). And then when you have adequate turn-in to avoid understeering you can then release the brake slowly (relatively speaking) while in the corner, approaching the apex and ultimately to be able to apply power as soon as possible when you are starting to unwind the steering wheel ... again a feel for how much throttle you can apply without breaking the rears loose.
I really enjoy how you learn us so mutch abouth F1, driving and everithing around the drivers and teams
Please hire someone to create graphics for your videos. It will help us a lot to better understand your awesome teachings
One of the best break downs of this style of driving… I have a hard time explaining this when “coaching” for sim or real life…
I’m no coach or pro, just happen to be pretty much the fastest guy in my circle… grew up karting and got to do 2-4 club and SCCA races a year until I was about 30 (yes ran out of funding for expensive motor sports lol).
Well done Peter!! Finally a British person that is positive about Max driving style.. haven't seen that in the British media.
I remember the British media bashing any other driver that competes with Lewis: Ted Kravits, Damon Hill, and what about Sam Collins telling on the news Max was hugely overrated. What a total idiot(s). They gonna look like fools if a summary is made of the entirely Lewis bias commentary.
I have never heard any of those people speak badly about Max's quality as a driver. Just expressed their disagreement with some of his racecraft/ the finish in Abu Dhabi. No one serious doubts Max's talent.
@@jacobs-pc8tn best one;
/watch?v=yFXO4qyzgDg
or
/watch?v=-WtoUr9cLEM
Max agains Eddie
/watch?v=EQOng57y-G8
Crashstappen, Aggressive all made up by the British media.. and even RB had even enough that they didnt speak with Sky due to this Ted Kravitz thingy
Hamilton was/is very hyped by the influential British media, understandable of course considering his nationality combined with the succes he has had. It is just that Verstappen does not get the same ‘respect’, if you want to call it like that. Even when all neutral F1 experts will probably agree that Verstappen right now is driving on a higher level than Hamilton ever did, I also strongly believe that every metric will show This. Hamilton never really had that villain status Vettel, Schumacher and Alonso had and Verstappen currently has.
@@thedutchexposer I disagree with this whole comment. Who are you referring to in the media? Ted Kravitz, Damon, and Sam Collins? Kravitz disagreed with the Abu Dhabi ending and spoke up about the Red Bull cost cap. I think those are fair things to comment on and express opinion about. Damon Hill is notoriously in favor of drivers he consider clean racers because of what happened to him and Schumacher. Max is certainly not that. And Sam Collins I have no idea what you are referring to. But what about everyone else on Sky and F1TV? Karun? Brundle? di Resta? Buxton? Clarkson? These people are not favorable to Lewis in any way. And no serious commentator is saying Max is driving better than Lewis ever did because that is just a silly comment. Everyone is in different cars and in different situations. In terms of villain status, Lewis used to get booed all over. So don't really know where you are coming from on this. But I think Max is a great driver that deserves a huge amount of praise. So not disagreeing with you on that one.
@@jacobs-pc8tn HAHAHAHA are you serous ???? I think if you gave Brundle a chance he will jump into bed with Lewis, Paul di Resta is not even a has been his a never was and cant even comment on Mazipin, Buxton loves Lewis but he is actually the least Bias of them all.
Did the hired help had fun with the graphics..?
Thanks for the interesting video. I'm looking forward to part 2.
Peter you are spoton in your commentary and have a lot of knowledge! Glad to see someone seeing how good Max is, and it's not only the car.(yes car makes a huge difference, but Perez would maybe be no WC without Max driving there)
It's the car
@@danielmclellan7762it’s yo mama
Great video, well explained Peter.
Thx! Love your video's! Greetings from the Netherlands
Thanks for the explanation Peter
I really like these kinds of videos.
in karting modern karts minus the kz shifter. on big race weekends you actually have to start turning in narrower and narrower when the track grips up or goes greasier. it weird feeling you have to apply the steering slowly but earlier . really triangle the apex like vettel. in my mind its like this shouldn't work but lap times don't lie
Thanks for the interesting video. How does this technique effect tire degradation?
Highly anticipated video!! especially for the long time fans seeing that there has been almost a decade of confusion and even mysticism surrounding this "school of thought"... however, although this might be a serious attempt at achieving some clarity, this concept still seems somewhat amorphous, to me at least.
one of the slight confusions that I suspect most people (as well as myself) might have with this "short" corner philosophy is perhaps how it seems to be at odds with what one would actually label as a "short" corner. The fundamental premise of extending the straights seems to not go hand in hand with this early faux apex, as that seems to require an early turn-in. However, when people think of the anatomy of a corner we tend to acknowledge that it starts with the first application of the brakes and/or the turn-in point (which ever happens first). at best, this seems confusing and at worst incoherent (unless Peter has a different idea of what constitutes a corner; where it starts and ends), as I think most people will probably agree that the further back you push the turn-in and/ or braking point, the shorter the straights and the longer you are technically "in the corner".
I guess you can say its merely a matter of semantics however if you engage with the argument as it is presented, you often run into other weird issues like this where things might not follow as Peter suggests that it does.
another such issue is that this early faux apex often times doesn't set you up for this diagonal/v shaped line on exit of the corner (that Peter rightly says contributes to an earlier exit) especially in the instances where we don't travel along a larger radius throughout the corner (aka using up more of the track) something that is more synonymous with what Peter identify as a long corner... even though it actually bodes well for higher average speed throughout and after the corner. I would like to see Peter explain and demonstrate why he prioritizes travelling on a shallower arc which often requires more grip (if you recall the traction circle) to travel the same speed as that taken on a wider arch. I figure he might say something about travelling a shorter distance overall but he still has to demonstrate that that actually translates to shorter lap times.
Also, while we are on the early false apex thing (final point I promise😅), I'm not sure what is meant when Peter justifies its significance by saying it (i.e. point of maximum rotation) cant happen at the apex because that is too late in relation to the exit. to which I suspect that most if not all drivers would agree that since the "textbook" understanding has the apex as the point at which rotation should end, suggests that majority of the rotation should happen prior to this point, not exactly revolutionary... I guess the obvious point that is being made is that the rotation should end before the "geometrical" apex however at that point it seems Peter is saying you can have your cake and eat it too... in brief, it seems like the idea is that you can have the upsides of a highspeed early but gradual turn-in stretched over a larger distance but also have the upsides of a late/v-shaped line where you get a perfectly squared off diagonal line on exit without over working the tires but none of the downsides of having to travel on a traditionally wider/longer line. well I guess that's the magic, huh?
with that said, I regularly try to revisit this idea with the hope that I might uncover that one thing that puts the puzzle pieces together and clears things up, enriching my appreciation of driving however I also want to make the point that Its easy to get into armchair philosophizing without a strong demonstration of our ideas, something that I sometimes get the feeling that Peter is prone to do... not that its necessarily a bad thing, its just that you have to acknowledge the limitations mode of analysis (especially in the cases when Peter refuses to use footage or denigrates telemetry as if he is able to see driver inputs that arent picked up by ultra precise sensors). either way I still hold out on the possibility that he clears up these type of questions in pt.2 or atleast make things more internally clearer/consistent.
Absolutely loved this, thank you Peter
9:01: when you say he gets on the brake early to shift weight to front, does that mean, he is still at the throttle and left foot breaking?
Great video. There is a type with "Geomentrical" (extra n) at 7:45 . Idk if that is fixable in "post".
I noticed this many years ago that Max breaks quite early, especially for someone who is considered to be aggressive. I understand the 'slow in, fast out' logic but it never made sense for someone who is so on the limit all the time. Makes more sense as I watched him over the years.
Yet another excellent video, thanks Peter :)
Always enjoy your videos, this one had great content but the editor went a little wild with the word art.
Great lessons from you Peter….
Regarding Copse corner, the long corners actually look more spectacular/violent but obviously asking more of the tyre. I wonder if drivers like Max or Charles are slightly slower like 0.005sec in that section than say Carlos Sainz or Alonso
I think I remember Stewart saying that managing the transition from braking to cornering is the most important thing a driver does...
@Peter Windsor are there some good books on theory? I’ve read “Going Faster” and books like that but they are super basic. Wondered if you had any ideas on a reading list for this type of theory.
Fantastic video. Thank you! Love this kind of content it is so interesting and let us mere mortal peek into why these drivers are who they are. It seems like you maybe had reference material or books in the background could you maybe tell us what they are thank you.
The first one is The Unfair Advantage by Mark Donohue. I think the second is Sports Car and Competition Driving by Paul Frere, but I am not 100% sure on that one.
It's called making the "Brachistochrone curve".
Like a straight line, the fastest patch for a corner is Brachistochrone under acceleration.
At the 5:12 mark, You mention "maximise performance of the tyre by keeping the red dots as near as possible to the outside of the circle". The diagram is not correct. It only shows a slight improvement over the base case of releasing the brakes and then turning.
THE LITTLE RED DOTS SHOUD RUN ALONG OUTSIDE OF THE CIRCLE. That is what Mark Donohue meant by "filling the circle".😀
High level explication.
Thx!
👍
Superb vid, even I understand what you're explaining!
Can you do a detailed video on loading a car in/before corners🙏
Fantastic video, Peter!
Great stuff. I always earned big eyes from my drivers asking them to keep the car" flat " and not loading it extensively on cornering.... 😅
Hi, Peter you said in the live that if hamilton joined Redbull Max would beat hamilton what are your thoughts on if Max joined mercedes would Max beat hamilton still ?
I think it would be closer but if Russell can do it, Verstappen can too
Probably now yes, but pre 2022 maybe not
@@mrbungle3310Current Max would beat any version of Hamilton in equal machinery.
Bro Max would eat Hamilton alive 😂 at any team!
@@Reaz399yeah, because your opinion is beyond debate. Some of you Max fans can’t help sounding like teenagers
There's a graphics video of Max, Fernando and Nico's qualifying laps in Canada layered on top of each other that perfectly shows this difference. ( ua-cam.com/video/bXMR1__dOkQ/v-deo.html ) In the breaking zone of every corner Fernando closes the gap to Max (or even goes past him), but every time Max has so much more traction out of the corner, giving him such an advantage onto the next straight.
People in the comments were mostly talking about how that proves the straight line speed of the RB, but I keep on trying to tell them it's Max' driving style through the corners of early braking (and settling), slow in/fast out that Jos has tought him from a very young age.
So yeah couldn't agree more with your analysis.
Thing is there’s other drivers, driving coaches and former teammates of both Max and Lewis that say they are late brakers contrary to what Peter has been saying. Peter finally clarified the ‘early’ point here so that it makes sense. He’s not really braking easier or earlier per se. He’s still a hard and late braker, he only gets on it ‘early’ to settle the car, but isn’t getting much braking done at that point. After the early and easy application of brakes he’s getting on then as hard as anyone. So calling him an early braker isn’t really correct and it’s just more confusing.
Also, In an interview after Canada Horner was telling Jensen how Max is very aggressive, just like Fernando, at getting heat into the tires. Jensen, being a former FA teammate, nodded in agreement. This is contrary to Peters description of max, like Lewis, as having a subtle and light touch and that he says it’s very different to Alonso’s style.
Just as the drivers style plays a part, so does the cars handling characteristics. We know the RB is the fastest car overall, traction wise coming out of corners and is also very quick in a straight line. The scenario you speak of is in line with those. Max’s driving style and immense talent no doubt plays a part, but he can only do what the cars allows him to do and how it works best. There seem to be a lot of contradictory opinions out there from drivers and non drivers alike.
Love the theory, love the presentation, bu maybe 5% down with fancy flashy flying texts?
Thank you Peter, this is the video I’ve been waiting for. One follow up question: does this mean that a short corner technique is more advantageous in a car with more power than grip (ie. Modern supercar) than it is for a car with more grip than power (ie. Standard kart)?
M Schumacher would change his approach, depending on cars strengths. ie with a less peaky engined car, he would brake early and carry more mid apex speed.
Brilliantly explained!
Would it be safe to say that inherent car characteristics intended to favor this technique explain some of the performance disparity between Max and Checo?
I’m assuming (from his reputation for being gentile on tires) that Checo favors a much more traditional geometrical apex.
Who better to explain a short corner execution than the man who first brought them to my attention...
Really good stuff! keep it up
Brilliant stuff Peter
I LOVE this sort of chat.
Fascinating and wonderful
is it just me or did the drawing show a late apex? Late apex meaning closer to the exit straight opposed an early apex being closer to the entry straight.
Verstappens driving style is very unique in F1. All the other drivers like the exact same things, a stable rear end and car that is planted to the ground. Even drivers like Lewis have this driving style of stable rear end and there’s really nothing unique about what he does in the car. He’s just fast and consistent. And that’s not a knock on Lewis just an observation of driving style that he does basically what all the other drivers do but just better. But what Max does, absolutely no one can do lol.
Interesting and well illustrated, but we need to see your evidence. How do you know that Max is doing this? Is it possible to give video comparisons?
Conclusion: Max is just LUCKY with that much TALENT!
0:23 what about Hungary turn 4-5?