Fixing a ghost flush on a champion 4 toilet
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- Опубліковано 19 гру 2015
- My Amazon Store: amazon.com/shop/burbbilly
How to fix a ghost flush on a champion 4 toilet by American Standard
Shows how to change out the flush seal and the flush valve assembly
THANK YOU!!!! It took TWELVE years for this to show up, and it was JUST as you said. Drove me nuts for months! THANK YOU also for the Amazon link. I ordered FOUR spares at 6 bucks each, just in case they go out of service. I was hoping after YEARS of messing with crappy flapper valves... a modern toilet would set me free... but here we are :) Thanks again, and GOOD JOB to Ben the impromptu cameraman
MEEE TOOO! 12 years!
Best video I've found on this topic. Still struggling to remove the top piece by unscrewing it. Will give it another try in a minute but wanted to say thank you. And to confirm the flush on my Titan II is incredible. Three years in and they have never clogged.
Thank you so much for this video. I had no idea why the water would suddenly gush in my toilet. I have the Champion 4 toilet and it’s worked perfectly for 5 years. I’m a female senior citizen😂😂 and I followed your instructions and fixed it myself, only got my seal from Amazon, $6. You saved me a bunch of money and I thank you again !!!
Thanks so much, could not figure out was going on. Replaced everything but the flash assembly. I glad to see I was not the only one with this problem.
Popped the blisters a couple hours ago and so far so good. Thanks for the help
Thank you! for some awesome information regarding Ghost Flushing.
Great video. You were a big help.
Thank you very much for the info! This is exactly what my dad needed to see to fix our phantom flushes.
Alternatives to popping the blisters: flip the ring over and put it back. Also, check the top and bottom cap alignment with the notches.
I second this. I just came here to post this so try this first.
Thanks for the video, but most likely you don't need to go to the trouble of replacing the whole flush valve. When replacing the blue ring, you have to line up the 4 indentations on the plastic cap with the 4 notches on the bottom part of the flush valve that is connected to the toilet. Position the cap until it seats. If it doesn't seat properly, it will leak. That's the main cause of the continuing ghost flushes/leaks even after replacing the gasket with a new one. But my main gripe with this flush valve is the overflow pipe is too short. If you adjust the water level in the tank to just below the tip of the overflow pipe, it will flush okay, but any lower than that and you have to hold the handle down to get enough water to flush into the bowl.
Thank you
You can add a PVC coupler to the overflow tube to allow more water to fill
@@Kannondale07 that's a great idea! Thanks!
You are spot on.
Wondering why American Standard doesn't give out this important fact.
Very helpful, thank you.
I lost the bolt to which the cotter pin attaches at the end of the arm that lifts the flush valve open. A zip tie works well as a replacement.
I've had the toilet for twelve years and this is the first time I've had to replace the flush valve seal.
Thank you for this video.
Thanks for the info, I fixed it with korkys one, sounds like its working. I will change with american standard if it fails. I put 2 of these toilets in last year that is not saying much for the company!
Excellent description of how to perform the repair. Thank you so much! (BTW, whenever I say the name for the problem, I use a Nicholas Cage impression, "GHOST FLUSH!!!" :-) ) We have a lot of chlorine in our water and the seal started leaking just a bit after maybe 6 years.
Thank you very much for the info, I'll do just that!!
As mentioned in a post below, make sure that the four notches in the bottom of the green cap align with the four ridges in the green part beneath the seal or they won't seat together tightly and will leak worse than ever. I realigned the two parts after changing the seal and there is no longer any leaking.
Thanks! Worked great!
In researching the fix I read in several reviews that the trick is to make sure the imprinted side of the blue flush gasket is facing up. Seems that they fail when the imprints face the flush valve seat.
Okay. As soon as I just went back in and tried for the 25th time and it turned easily! I hope this new seal lasts as long as the old one did.
Note American Standard also recommends aligning the 4 tabs on the underside of the green "bulb" so it properly seats to the portion fixed to the tank. If you don't do this you will have a slow leak even after replacing the seal.
Yes you will and you will become an alcoholic before you figure out what's causing this. Make sure those four slots are aligned with the mating cup underneath or it will leak.
I had a leaking flush valve too. Replaced the blue gasket - still leaked. Turns out there was a hairline crack in the top part of the green dome (for lack of better words I am calling it the green dome lol). Replaced the green dome and have had NO issues since. American Standard Champion 4 long bowl toilet circa 2008. BUT today... the plastic stem that holds the whole green assembly broke, so I have to replace the entire flush valve assembly.
The little black part at 3:33 that unscrews has an o-ring installed in a groove. That cheapie o ring will deteriorate over several years and can cause a phantom flush. I replaced 2 Korky's and was on my way to replacing the entire flush valve assembly, which involves about $40 in parts and seperating the tank from the bowl. New o-ring from a faucet set an d problem solved.
Thank you..
Thanks for the time to make this video. Woot!
You're welcome
Great video! Once I popped the flush valve top off, I noticed a blister on the underside of the seal. I popped it with a pin and released the water. I flipped the seal over and re-installed it and VOILA...ghost flush is gone!!
Man -o-man. My sealed looked like some poor 15 year old with an acne problem. I replaced mine, and so far so good. I just wished American Standard still made the original flush valve, as I believe the newer one doesn't have enough force to clear out a massive turd.
Picked up 3 of these champion 4 elongated one piece toilet. Instantly noticed one had poor quality control the ceramic coating at the bottom edge. Also noticed the measurement on one of the toilets water tank where the lid sets on measures 7 inches and the other 2 toilets measured 7.5 inches. Load of crap because I waited 3 weeks to get these.
Also the ceramic coating is not sprayed inside the bowl up underneath the rim.
Thanks for the insight. I flipped the gasket upside down and it worked. I will call American Standard for the inevitable replacement. Guessing my super hard Phoenix, AZ water is a possible reason its failing.
I've got hard water here too so maybe, I'm thinking it's more a design flaw though :-)
Converting it back to the old school Korky's 3-4 inch flush valve with flapper solves the problem. These newer valves are a constant headache, especially on a toilet that get's a lot of use.
I went as low rent as possible. I poked all the bubbles from one side and put it back. Been working so far.
Caused by bad gasket making methods and being too rough with the flush handle. Nice gentle single motion
I'm fixing to change the whole flush valve on a friend's toilet. Changing the rubber ring worked until I left their house the other day then it started leaking again after I left. Do not install flush valves with multiple pieces that can be problem points. Install 1 piece systems if at all possible is my recommendation.
The new flush valve is different. American Standard new flush valve doesn't seem to screw off like the old one, it is now one piece. Changed out 3 filters and still having ghost flushes.
Korky seal (red) leaked. Problem was resolved in a matter of minutes using Fluidmaster seal (blue).
Can you do a video of the one that has no thumb screw?
Yup I got the same problem and tried the red seal. It leaks still them stops and leaks again. Guess I'm pulling it apart. Ok I forgot to change the o ring, I did and it still leaked. So I put the old one back in now there are 2 o rings, working so far
I have six Champion 4 toilets and everyone of them leaks. I remodeled our home 3 years ago and I’m on my 3rd round replacing gaskets. I have my receipts from Home Depot but I don’t have the original UPC code from the box so American standard won’t send me replacement gaskets without charging for them. On a second not I paid over $20,000 for our platinum series HVAC system 3 years ago as well. It came with a 2 year warrantee and American standard covered all the repairs. I had the best installers in the business come out each time and after 2 years my warrantee was up. It has never worked longer than a few weeks. Our Train system works in our other homes. Our Rheem system has always worked. All our cheap glacier bay toilets work in our other home. It’s really frustrating but I have to throw out every American standard item we have in our home. Yes even our American standard jacuzzi tubs don’t work. I always thought they were know for toilets but now I realize they are known for being crap.
Any solution on having to hold the handle up in order to get a full flush?
Same deal with the Kohler the bottom seal separated. Toilet not even 2 years old. Phantom flushes could hear it downstairs. Big box stores they cheap out on all the toilets and parts. Get one from a legit plumbing counter better outfit. Hear Toto is good too!
My toilet dose not have that screw on top of the flush valve. So how do I remove the old seal?
I am going to replace the flush tower with a Fluidmaster kit. I've tried and tried to repair my American Standard toilet and it still phantom flushes.
Just today on a friend's Champion 4, only 6 years old, was doing ghost fills,on and off, filling, stopping then water level drops a bit, fills a little more, on and on. Amer Standard sent me a blue gasket and O ring kit, put it in, no luck, changed the fill valve, same thing. I guess I need to change out the whole flush valve.Hate doing that with a 2-piece toilet, guess I'll have to take the whole tank off.
You will have to pull the tank, do me a favor though. I keep getting comments from people telling me that there are little air bubbles on the flapper and if you take a needle and pop them and squeeze the water out of them then everything works great. I had someone comment again today about it, should be in the comments below our convo
you can message me or email me if you want mytwocentsonthings@gmail.com I'd like to see if this fix works or not, I don't remember seeing bubbles on the ones I worked on and I know it took me a few tries to get it working with no call backs.
It wasn't until I changed out the entire assemble, new flush valve and flapper assembly that it finally stopped
Thanks for your reply. I don't recall seeing any bubbles. I wrote to the tech at Amer Standard to try to get a new flush valve. Now I'm wondering if I did this as Michael W says below: " make sure that the four notches in the bottom of the green cap align with the four ridges in the green part beneath the seal or they won't seat together tightly" I might check that. But I think I would have seen bubbles if they were in the gasket.
I doubt you installed it wrong, like I said mine didn't stop until I replaced the whole flush valve assemble with a new one from the manufacturer. I saw your post about the fill valve, don't feel bad about that. :-) Usually when you get a phantom flush it's from a leak in the tank somewhere, either onto the floor, at the flush valve or at the overflow.
As for the bubbles, I don't recall seeing any either on the ones I worked on but I keep getting comments about them so I figured I'd ask and see if you saw any.
When you get this solved please post what it was on here so we all can learn from it.
Did all above, disgusted, still leaks like a sieve. Trying to get receipt from plumber who installed it, warranty is 10 years, otherwise just pay about $20 for new flush valve.
I think that's going to be your fix. Sorry to hear you had to chase this around like that but I think your on it now. You can call their customer service and see if they'll ship one out for free, they know they have a problem with them. Even if you change it out in the meantime, keep that one as a back up.
hi thank you for this video.
I have a one piece AS toilet based on Champion parts. The flush valve removal looks straight forward on the 2 piece but not sure how to remove on a one piece. I have an older design flush piston which looks to have been replaced with this newer design but I'm at a loss as to how to get it out. Have you come across the 1 piece versions in your work? I hired a plumber for my repair but he too has not seen this type of valve
Lazer please send me a picture...2 or 3 if you think it will help explain...and I'll try and help
mytwocentsonthings@gmail.com
The Burb Billy
thank you Billy for the response. I had difficulty getting the replacement part locally and I decided a new toilet was an easier path. It turned out a better and it's a newer more water efficient design so all turned out well.
have a great 2017!
My GF has two of these Max 4 toilets and both are experiencing problems with occasional running water. We've replaced both flush valves and the fill valves but both are still running occasionally. We've adjusted the fill level to different extremes with no apparent help. She bought these toilets at Home Depot so when we thought that the flush valve flapper needed a new seal, we went back there and found out that Home Depot doesn't carry any parts for these toilets anymore. Hmmmmm.
I have bought toilets from Costco for under a hundred dollars and never had these kind of problems. Believe me, I'm a serious addict of toilet flushing and find no difference between the two toilets but then again, I don't flush balls down the toilet either.
That's funny, we sell it but when it breaks...no parts
use a safety pin to pop the blister(s) in the flapper seal. squeeze water out of the blister(s) with your fingers and you are done. you do not have to take anything apart or buy anything. simple fix I have used many times with this design.
OMG!! I have had this problem for SOOO long... I'm embarrassed to say i ignored it. I was just about to order a new flush valve and came across this youtube video and then YOUR comment. I popped the blisters just as you recommended and NO phantom flush!! Nothing!!! I can't thank you enough for posting!!!
Is it still working? I just did this after reading your post. Fingers crossed. I have two of these toilets and both are phantom flushing.
What are the blisters? Why does popping them make a difference?
***I'd caution the advise given in this video regarding replacing the complete valve***
When assembling the lid (green top), you need to make sure the slots (4) on the top of the valve align with the "cup" that the lid screws down to. If not, it will seem like the two pieces are screwed together, but really there's a small gap which allows some water to pass and then the phantom flush cycle goes on. I missed this the first few times I took it apart. I'd argue that the complete valve wasn't bad (with the one he changed out), it was how it went together when installing the seal. Really easy to not get the slots aligned. Basically lift the bottom of the valve and install the top with the new seal. Then rotate the top till you feel it drop about 1/8 of an inch and it won't rotate anymore. Then screw the top lid down. This fixed the phantom flushing I had after changing the seal.
Michael, you saved my sanity! I changed the entire contents of that tank before I found out what was causing this ghost flush issue. Those four slots must be aligned with the for inside that cup that sits below scalp. If they are not, I guarantee you it will continue to drain and fill over and over.
I've had problems with mine for a long time now. I've replaced the flush valve seal a few times and had to accept ghost flushing at least a few times a day. After reading your comment, I made sure to rotate the valve assembly halves so they matched up. I'll check in a few hours to see if the water level has dropped or not!
I installed the Korky seal, stopped the leak for only a few days. It seemed to me the Korky was a bit thinner than the original blue seal, so thought maybe nut wasn't compressing seal enough when tightened to 2nd stop. So I marked the 2nd stop with a sharpie, got the top half back off, clipped the second stop off with side cutters. Very soft plastic, came right off. Smoothed with a couple of passes with a file. When I reinstalled, I was able to carefully tighten the nut almost a 1/4 turn more. This added clamping compressed the seal more, probably the original O ring too. No more leak! Another tip: I hate messing with the water cut off cause they always seem to leak after. So I use a rubber band to hold up the float, clip it to edge of tank corner. It's one of those vertical travel float assemblies, not the old style long arm.
Right at the end, you have basically stated that you don't like to use shut-off valves, call a pro and have it replaced. What a cop-out.. They shouldn't leak
If you're here, you've probably already own this toilet. If you don't, stay away! They are garbage.
My seal failed at the 6 month mark. I popped the water bubble on the original seal and it still leaked. Replaced it with a Korky and so far it has worked fine. If it fails again, I'll end up calling the company. I cannot, in good conscience, recommend this toilet.
All four of mine started ghost flushing within two weeks of each other when they hit seven years.
I replaced three toilets with these upon plumbers recommendation. One has lost its flapper valve chain due to corrosion and now one is ghost flushing in less than a year.
Korky makes wonderful toilet parts. It probably lasts longer than the American standard version.
We just got one of these toilets. Hunk of junk. Have to hold the handle down to get any kind of decent flush. I miss the old style floating flapper that held itself up until flush was done.
It no longer has the black nut on top how do I remove
Any solution to getting the toilet to flush completely without having to hold the handle down while it flushes?? Thanks very much.
Did you ever find a solution? This is exactly what mine does.
I ran into this. The problem is the damn flush valve flap sits 2 inches off the bottom of the tank, reducing the amount of water in the tank that can actually can go down to the bowl. And if you try to raise the water level in the tank by adjusting the valve float higher, the water will flow into the overflow tube and it will run constantly. One solution is to extend the overfill tube higher by adding a short piece of PVC (the same diameter of of the overflow pipe) and seal it with some JB Weld or other waterproof adhesive. Then you can hopefully raise the water level in the tank a bit higher to allow more water to flush.
I have no thump screw on my plunger cap
I have had my American Standard toilet for about 9 years and this is the first time I have needed to replace the seal. My problem is I cannot get the black screw to raise up out of the notch so that I can unscrew it. I can move it right and left between the notches, I just cant get it to pull up enough. I have used a jar grip and still cant get it out of the notch. Any suggestions?
Same problem! Every video I see shows how easy it is to unscrew, but the wings on the screw are stuck in between the grooves.
check your gasket for air bubbles ,I had 5 bubbles in my gasket so I popped them with a pin they were filled with water , reinstalled and leak is gone
Good tip Mike. I had not heard of this. I did get a good gasket the last time from them and it seems to be working now (no call back) I would say if yours is leaking I would call them anyway and get your name registered with them that you are having a problem. Was contacted by a lawyer recently about this so I have a feeling there is going to be a class action down the road
This works!! I was planning to replace the entire thing and all i did was pop and drain the air bubbles. I'm amazed!!!
Thanks for the tip. Worked for me too
I had two. Popped each one. We'll see what happens. Here's hoping! Thanks Mike.
My toilet flushes as if it's not going to but it clears, I'm use to a stronger flush, I don't have any leaks, am I good!
You may be able to make a stronger flush by increasing the water amount in the tank, if it's not already maxed out. You can call the manufacturer and tell them what you are dealing with and they may give you a suggestion or walk you through a fix. As long as it's going down your good but if you're concerned about it and its a newer toilet give them a call. If they offer to send you a part take it, even if you are not going to do the repair right away you want to have that part on hand. This way if you have to call a plumber out they don't need to track a flapper or part down and you pay for that time.
As a contractor: HomeDepot/Lowes plumbing fixtures and toilets are made up differently than from a supply house. Many parts are plastic or thin cheap (Pot metal) like. As for the American Standard line, my 3 have all had seals replaced, within 2 years. Now 2 are Ghost filling. I WOULD NEVER BUY THIS PRODUCT AGAIN or recommend. Calling company to get 2 new o-rings and seals. It's upsetting to watch/hear the wasted water randomly thru the night. Sometimes I just turn the shut-off valve off before going to sleep.. NOT IMPRESSED!!!
If the notches and tabs don't align into each other there will always be a leak
this is a problem with the flapper part itself. It is important to line up tabs but this isnt a tab problem
What is a phantom flush?
Phantom flush or ghost flush is when you hear a toilet start running and no one was using it, like a ghost flushed it. They are an indication of a leak, either in the tank or coming from the tank. In this case it was an internal leak, the flapper is allowing water to get into the bowl.
HTH you contact American Standard?
1 (800) 442-1902
They cant make a seal that does not blister and bubble . Screw american standard.
You have to change the seal every few yeas all the time .
I didn't try teflon tape but I did try a thicker gasket and it made no difference. Home Depot reads U-Tube and they allowed me to buy a Kohler and they are far superior to American Standard. (Don't buy American Standard)
I bought this American Standard toilet 4215A two years ago and it runs, phantom flushes, and leaks all day long so I replaced the seal but couldn't find an American Standard seal kit so I bought a Korky, which only worked for about three weeks then it started leaking again and losing water so this time I have no choice but to replace the whole flush valve which means taking the tank off. I will email the company and see if they can send me a free replacement one. If not I'll have to buy one at Home Depot or somewhere and try it. If it doesn't fix the problem I will be replacing the entire toilet with another brand name and never buy American Standard again. It was a fairly expensive toilet, I was sold on how powerful it was supposed to be flushing but it's always been a two-flush toilet and it's a piece of garbage that's done nothing but cost me money and waste water.
Gail, call them! I did and they sent out a replacement flush valve kit and it solved the problem. Lots of other quick fix ideas out there but for me the replacement from the company did fix it, so whatever is going on they seem to have sorted it out....maybe :-)
Standard Champion is garbage..... Mine fills and shuts off 5 minutes later it fills again... Replaced the seal... Same issue.
The clowns at American Standard say that the korky seals are not good and should use factory parts? Horse bunk!!! I have used them and last for years. What about the fill valve. The fill valve that American Standard uses in new toilets is "In Fact", an aftermarket part. It is the Fluidmaster 400A. An aftermarket part that fits many different brands and models of toilets.
lol I hear ya.
Yes, I put in the Fluidmaster 400AH, the Performax, thinking the phantom flushing might be the fill valve failing to shut off, oh well I wasted 12 bucks of my friend's money.
Do not buy the American Standard toilet. I have replaced the entire flush valve 10 times since I have owned this toilet. I finished installing the 2nd flush valve in the last month because the last valve leaked immediately after installing it. The one I just installed is also leaking. I am 100% sure that the leak is coming from the blue seal in the flapper valve. Prior to reinstalling the tank I set the tank up over a bucket and i used 2 3/4" sockets as spacers on the mount screw to prevent them from leaking. I proved that nothing was leaking prior to me reinstalling the tank. The tank did not leak when I first reinstalled it; however, after a few days it started leaking again internally. I want my money back for this piece of crap!!
Don't buy one and don't waste your time replacing seals, you need to replace the toilet unless you like to live with phantom flush.
John sorry to hear about your headache. I had pretty much the same experience there for a while with it. I didn't hear back from the customer I was talking about in this video but I'm not sure that's because it was fixed but afraid it was because the phantom came back and he was tired of having me tear his toilet apart.
I did all that and it didn't work. The toilet is junk! I had to pay for every replacement gasket and it still junk!
Haters gonna hate. :-) I get a lot of people who tell me all these things I should have done, I did all of them. I was on the phone with their tech support repeated times and had multiple trips out to this house trying to fix the problem. It did not get fixed until they sent me out the changed gasket/assembly. If someone says they rotated the gasket or did some trick with it and it worked, then they got lucky or it's already leaking again lol
I thought same thing mine ran every 15 minutes or so. had tried two different gaskets finally fixed with a few wraps of Teflon pipe thread tape around the part with the o-ring before I screwed it in.
to be fair though the reason I got this toilet is because I had bought a earlier version of this toilet for my basement about 6 years ago liked it, never had a problem with it. now that the leak is fixed I am happy with this one too.
Your suggestion was the key to fixing this and it finally made all the difference.
These toilets are shit. My model was marketed as being able to flush like a gallon of golf balls and pounds of kitty litter. Mine often times executes a 'half flush' leaving most of what you dropped in there. Maybe it's a bad valve? I dunno.
Mine was advertised like yours. Half of the time it won't even flush toilet paper down unless I hold the handle all the way down until I hear all water is out of tank.
I'm on city water and I don't go over my allowed $14 a month, UNTIL last month it went up $10 now this month it was $74 due to ghost flushing. I've replaced with the parts from A S and still ghost flushing. I'm going to check tomorrow to see if it's seated correctly. Wouldn't buy this again for 10 cents!!!
I bought the same toilet it is garbage!
@@kellylynn9163 Any suggestions on other models to check out? I need to replace mine.
The American Standard Champion 4 toilet is a DISASTER! The best way to fix the stupid leaky thing is to REPLACE the whole thing with a better brand. So far, I've wasted over $300.00 and about three days off on a toilet I need to replace again. It is NOT a good toilet. Avoid it! It won't last.
Amen......sorry about the $300 and lost work. There is a class action in the works. Had a lawyer contact me already about it
The Burb Billy - A class action lawsuit? Some poor hotel exec somewhere probably bought 100 of them a year ago and they're ALL leaking by now! I can imagine the water bills!!! I can tell that flush valve is cheap plastic just by the noise it's making while you're moving it around. You know, I'd be happy with a replacement tank that fits a standard 2" or 3" flush valve. You could just get an aftermarket repair kit and be good to go.
Get a NuFlush valve, problem solved
American Standard new generation toilets suck… They are cheaping out but using crap gasket material. They should have gaskets that last a minimum 10 years….just like they had in the old days. Their design engineers are doing premature fail design work on purpose.
Those things suck out loud! American Standard sucks!
I can't stand this toilet...it's horrible...don't buy a Champion American Standard.