What Diane doesn't realize is that books and other media about damage and trauma isn't what made her feel less alone growing up. It was the corny happy family on Horsin' Around.
And we know this book does the same because even Sonny, a guy out of the age range for this book, found emotional resonance with it as a high schooler going through his parents’ divorce and probably other typical high school stuff.
Same. I was a socially awkward kid growing up and I didn’t have a lot of friends. My mom was to some extent emotionally distant and had a very sharp temper. It was optimistic children’s movies that made me feel less alone. The Barbie movies, Winnie the Pooh, the Little Engine that Could, these movies were what made me feel happy.
It helps knowing that Princess Carolyn came from a dysfunctional family, especially with a mother who put her down and faulted her for ever wanting and working for better
God dude, I know this is written with good intentions and to some degree you're right, but this is that "good damage" mentality... I could be wrong though, trying to think about it more, it's confusing me a little
@@PandaBlackAndWhitr Diane is looking to capitalize on her being "damaged." Using your identify as clout is a huge cash grab these days. It's slowly dying off, however when this show was still ongoing, it was "the thing" to do. The problem for the people wanting to capitalize on how "damaged" they are was when they discovered they really aren't all that damaged. Princess Carolyn didn't allow her damages to rue her life. She knew there were people in far worse situations than her. Diane is the classic case of a privileged person, who didn't have to fight to go to school, didn't have to worry where she would sleep that night, didn't have to worry if she would get a meal that day, etc. etc. etc. So she began finding some angle in her life to "prove" how "damaged" she was. Her family was a bunch of working class New Yorkers who immigrated from Vietnam, and who decided to estrange themselves from their culture. It was their choice. Diane, however, wanted something "deeper" than a secure life and opportunities, even though there are millions of girls who would love to be her in shoes. The new trend is not only proving who is more damaged, but how to bankroll your damages. Diane is a good enough person not to lie about her damages. Many other people do in order to make money, however Diane wanted to be honest. She could have embellished how "damaged" she was if she wanted. That her parents fled Vietnam and were forced into an American factory job and if they didn't act how much they loved baseball, their neighbors would hate them. Diane was dismayed her parents willingly chose the life they did. There was nothing politically "sexy" or would grab a headline. So Diane found herself in the uncomfortable position of coming from far less of an abrasive life than what she can sell to the public. Not if she is being honest anyway.
@@heidischultz6219 It's not just for clout or attention. It also doesn't mean someone is less damaged. People want to feel that the trauma they went through wasn't just for nothing.
"what was it all for?" I think anyone who's had a traumatic childhood can relate to it. It's so devastating when you realise there was no point because "maybe this made me special" is a coping mechanism.
Yeah. Our monkey brains always try to make sense out of chaos and random tragedies. Trauma is something you go through, not who you are. It's very reductive to think of great artists down to how the died, what vices they had or what mental disease they didn't overcome.
That is the reason why it isn’t special, it’s a chain you place to justify. Why should it be justified why should it drag. You break it be overcoming it.
As someone who writes creatively and studies literature academically I really related to his arch for her. I often punish myself because I don’t write proust or Byron. I write angsty YA fiction about and vampires seeking revenge and tragic love stories between childhood best friends and cute cosy neo Edwardian light fantasy stories about lesbian gangster witches who run away to a cottage in Cornwall. And sometimes I feel like that isn’t good enough. Because it’s not refined or intellectual. I’m not using all that damage I got from years of bullying and emotional neglect or the internalised Aphobia. And that sucks because I enjoy writing about these things. I love writing scenes where they breakdown and beg the other not to leave them. Or the tender scene when she pulls the shard of glass from her leg while they talk shit about their now ex husband. Where all those months of resentment and pain manifest into one dramatic moment of violence. It’s fun. And exciting. But it feels like a failing.
As someone who writes creatively and studies literature academically I really related to his arch for her. I often punish myself because I don’t write proust or Byron. I write angsty YA fiction about and vampires seeking revenge and tragic love stories between childhood best friends and cute cosy neo Edwardian light fantasy stories about lesbian gangster witches who run away to a cottage in Cornwall. And sometimes I feel like that isn’t good enough. Because it’s not refined or intellectual. I’m not using all that damage I got from years of bullying and emotional neglect or the internalised Aphobia. And that sucks because I enjoy writing about these things. I love writing scenes where they breakdown and beg the other not to leave them. Or the tender scene when she pulls the shard of glass from her leg while they talk shit about their now ex husband. Where all those months of resentment and pain manifest into one dramatic moment of violence. It’s fun. And exciting. But it feels like a failing.
I believe that Diane doesn’t realize she doesn’t have to keep dwelling on it. She doesn’t realize that she doesn’t have to keep being sad. She is in love with her depression.
Princess Carolyn's body language is exactly what Dianne needed. She moves towards her, not away, even though Dianne is getting more and more aggressive. She shows support and she shows she's not scared to deal with how raw Dianne and her emotions are. Takes guts, and is honestly one of the huge reasons PC is the true hero of the show
When I’m upset and lay in bed my cat always tries to cuddle me even when I push her away, I don’t know why I guess cats know when a person needs comfort
@@senjaoneill4861 fun fact: cats' purr can help with stress and depression and even cats themselves purr to calm theirselves to sleep. Idk the scientific terms but it's been proven by studies that they can relieve your stress
“Misery builds character” is just a 🐂💩 excuse people use to justify bullying and abuse, and to blame the victim for “not being strong, tough or assertive enough”, purposely forgetting the fact that 99% of the victims are overpowered, have no means to defend themselves, and when they do seek help, they are even more bullied and abused for it because they are weak in their judgmental, envious eyes
@@veronicapiccinini7956 Worse part is being a victim of bullying or abuse doesn't stop you from becoming a bully or abuser yourself. It just makes it easier for you to excuse your actions.
@@kap1618 after all, “hurt people hurt people”. It’s the golden rule. But as a wise antihero says: “The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem” Which means, while it’s true there are things in life that are outside of your control (like family abuse, natural disasters…), you have still the power to react towards this events, and it’s up to you to decide how. Something I’ve already discussed in Steven Universe and The Owl House
@@veronicapiccinini7956 not like w golden rule exactly, more like "can be the case". some people weren't abused or anything and are just abusive because they're like that.
Well I mean it kind of is a trial to overcome. Because if you don’t you just stew in your misery making you stagnant or making your situation worse. And/or worst case scenario: suicide
This is why Bojack is good: while it isn't afraid to show the harsh realities of live, it avoid glorifying pain and suffering. Diane learns that more pain won't cure her trauma, but moving past it and doing something that fills her with joy.
If this was 13 Reasons Why, the dead protagonist would inspire a million best-seller authors who overdozed on heroine because "maybe it all had to be that way to start a conversation".
“All this bad stuff that happened has to mean I’ll be happy in the end” can be such a punch in the gut when nothing works out in the end. Just because you suffered doesn’t automatically guarantee a happy future, so sometimes we fetishize our trauma in order to get that feeling. Like it was worth it. But at the end of the day: it just hurt.
I realize just now that "All this bad stuff that happened has to mean I’ll be happy in the end” thing is what Joseph Sugarman said to his daughter Beatrice when he burned her doll. It's so heartbreaking.
@@anabelleperez1109nd the audience knows that it didn’t. Beatrice’s life was shitty right to the very end. She gets into a loveless marriage that she only went through with because she got pregnant, and she ends up passing the same trauma down to her son Bojack, who also passes it on to other people in his life. Oh and like her mother, she also dies with ‘half a mind’….
I think the most interesting thing about PC is that, differently than the other characters, she often knows what she wants and have a plan. While other people see this as being pushy, here's great example of how sometimes it is helpful. It was a beautiful bonding moment for Diane and PC 🥰
I mean she is still pushy but yeah she's the most self assured out of all the main characters, which is usually why she's stuck having to be the assertive one and fixing other people's problems
I love how Diane sees that she CAN make a difference with her writing, even if she's not the next Sylvia Plath or bell hooks. That giving people escapism is vital, and that even a strong, masculine teenage boy like Sonny can enjoy it.
@@missingsig Everyone needs a break. Sometimes all you want is to get lost in a world of reading and not think about how shitty your life is. After an hour or two, you're back on your feet. In that sense, it _is_ important
I definitely sympathize with this but instead as an artist. During my last year of college I was preparing for my final project to be about my experience with being groomed online by a pedophile who was 7 years older than me when I was 13. I made a few sketches and a painting but it felt like I wasn't putting my emotions into it or it never felt good enough. I started avoiding the project altogether, even missing classes for weeks. Thankfully my professor understood what I was going through and told me to just paint what I want. Instead of painting something that made me relive the pain over and over again thinking back to what happened to me, I decided to paint roses, nature, a dragon ball, a snake with cats, and other things. It felt good to just paint and I realized why I loved painting. It was to escape the pain I feel and find joy in something that no one can take away from me. I passed the class with a B and realized that art should make me happy, not stressed. If people can channel their trauma into art, I think that's amazing! But I love seeing artists like me that have baggage and decide to use art as escapism.
I like how Diane subtly acknowledges that all the times Princess Carolyn pushed her to do something she didn't want, she knew, deep down, that she was helping her, by challenging her with good opportunities that eventually boosted her upwards.
you're not SUPPOSED to be anything, but if someone is telling you to be upset or unhappy, its a fun game to spite them. even if its yourself, tell that voice inside your head "get fucked and watch me smile"
I used to try to write a story based on my awful life experiences so people could feel related to it and make them feel better. So I totally understand her. The need to take something good of the trauma and the pain. Maybe one day I might do it, maybe I won’t, but this show helped me realize that I’m not the trauma and the pain.
I also wanna write down my traumatic experience. I'm so worried that if I don't write the book, my damage is just damage, and I get nothing out of it. I don't wanna feel worthless. I don't wanna feel vulnerable without anyone loving me. That feels horrible.
@@ayumi1972mmm i understand you so much. you are not alone and i'm so so sure that you will get what you deserve, and if it won't be what you think you want, it will be what you need. something will come out of all the pain you've been through, and i would never say this to you if i didn't think it was true. keep going
I like to think The book has some found family aspects in it. Like maybe the girl is at the mall all the time because she doesn’t really like going home. A janitor or someone at mall security notices the kid running around, doing what she does, and makes sure to keep an eye out for her to make sure she doesn’t get into trouble. Buys her food once in awhile- maybe becomes a nice side character. Horsin Around gave Diane a home. And I think Dianes gonna give other kids homes too.
i vividly remember when i first watched this scene. i was 15, and it was the first time in my life that i truly felt heard. three years later and it still is. i don’t want to be great anymore, i don’t want my life to amount to something special, i just want to find someone who finally hears me, and then i’ll forget ever feeling like this. is that too much to ask for?
What i love about that scene is how much books like "the girl detective" book really shaped my, and other peoples', childhoods. It made them feel less alone.
So sweet, and so relatable as someone with trauma. I would try to write stories connected to my trauma, but forcing it doesn't make me happy. I don't have use my trauma as a means to justify my pain. My pain, my trauma, does not define me. The other aspects of myself do. I have found that when I write stories where I am not focused on my pain, I am happy. Not to say that bits of my life doesn't slip in. But I feel it should be natural. Having a traumatic childhood sucks. Literally. But it's not who I am. It's a building block into the person I am today, but I so much more than my damage.
This scene is, for me, one of the most powerful out of the entire series. It really encapsulates the whole moral I personally take from Bojack. That yes, life is full of pain and damage and bad decisions, and no none of it is for anything or secretly good. But that it doesn't need to define you, and that despite it all you can move forward and make something better if you choose to. That you can break away from the cycles and expectations that entrap you and make you miserable if you decide to. That it's worth it to write that other book. That's what I take from it anyway, both this scene and the show as a whole.
Bojack has a lot of scenes that are more obviously devastating or heart wrenching. But no scene has stuck with me as much as this one. I have never identified with a moment in tv history more then this right here. It seriously gave me a whole new appreciation for Diane
Diane shared one time how Horsin Around made her feel less alone despite it being a family comedy So this is probably something that can work for her and her ultimate goal. If it makes her happy and it's easier for her to write rather than reminiscing in trauma, well at the end it's her judgement
Yeah, and also, there’s no reason to believe she won’t be able to write her book of essays down the line. Maybe in the future she’ll be in a better mental state and she can write about her trauma and abuse in a way that’s satisfactory for her. Maybe she’s just not mentally ready yet, that can sometimes happen with creative endeavors. Sometimes it’s just a matter of waiting for the right time.
As somebody who tried to write and who was a bully victim, disabled and also queer who grew up with sociopaths (yep, my luck) this actually got me. When growing up I realized I didn't want to write about my pain, I realized I felt complete when I wrote about the things that make me happy, the things I wanted to happen when I was younger, even if it's pure fantasy. It made me happy when some people who read my stuff felt less alone when reading it. It doesn't change the world or solve its problems, but it works as a good break from a harsh reality, for both me who Im writing and those who might read it. And who knows? If Diane was a real person, I would advise her to write an special episode that reflects her childhood situation and her main character would help a child struggling like she did, instead of making her wholse series about it.
I think this is probably one of the most important conversations they put on the show. One of the hardest things to come to terms with abuse is that it really just *is*. There’s no reason, purpose, or meaning to it. You just live with the damage and have to figure out how to be a whole person despite somebody having stolen a different path you could have had from you. Society loves to dress suffering and cruelty in panoply. Religions tell us God is testing us or we are on the righteous path to nirvana. Capitalism tells us you have to work very hard to expect any reward. We get told rigorous discipline is preferable to gentleness. It benefits a lot of people to say suffering is what makes us who we are because it removes the responsibility from people to help make a better world and sticks the culpability on the victim to make something of themselves. Diane told us you don’t have to keep buying into that myth for everybody else’s comfort. That’s the choice you do have. To recognize the reality and come to terms with it.
Ah shit I'm male Diane. It seems that I had wasted my life feeling sorry for myself thinking this would bring character. It doesn't, it's just the only feeling that makes sense to me.
I was watching a great video essay about Better Call Saul that described the main character Saul Goodman/Jimmy McGill as follows: "self-pity is about as close as Jimmy ever gets to self-relfection" and I had to pause the video and just let that sink in for a moment because I felt so seen by that observation. your comment made me realize that Diane is like a more emotionally intelligent Jimmy McGill, which is quite the connection to make lol I love it when prestige dramas can be thematically connected to the funny talking horse show
At first while watching this, I just wanted Diane to be happy and write her fun book. But really taking it in, it hurts and I understand. Amazing, famous figures have awful backstories, but yet became legends we look up to and use to push ourselves. In a way Bojack was like that, especially with Diane. So when Diane gets stressed and angry with herself over the book, it truly is understandable. Diane wasn’t a well known figure in history, and she tried to be that, to do something that had a meaning to the world. But it only caused more pain. So if she could at least write the book of her struggles, it would at least amount to something, to help younger girls. But making something like that mystery book, and being successful from that instead of her pain sounds more peaceful. The fruits of labor should be cherished, not the pain caused from making it.
I think the hardest thing to accept about trauma is that trauma just... Is. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it and something amazing and worthwhile doesn't always come out of the aftermath. Sometimes bad things happen and maybe one day you'll move past them eventually if you work hard enough at it, but you're more than likely not going to forget. Trauma is what it is and, unfortunately, you can't change it.
“What was it all for?” Felt that as someone who from the age of 10 to 14 was awoken up by her father at 5:30am to run laps of the court, then the block, then the neighbourhood and eventually the city. All the years of pain and abuse my body endured all for me to give it up over lack of emotional will. It is so strange to be on the end of it, cause it wasn’t good damage, I never ended up at the Olympics or made it past nationals. It was just damage. Now I’m left with a body on the verge of breaking down and a life that has no point. And of course parents who don’t give a shit whether I end up dead on the side of the road now I can’t win titles for them.
This scene hits so so so much. Trauma is so scary and horrifying and you're often just sitting there trying to make sense out of it, trying to add meaning. Trying to gain control over something you never had control over sucks huge balls and I think Diane trying to "save" her younger self who was abused by writing this book would ultimately ended up destroying her in the end if she ever did complete the book (she doesn't). Because that trauma is still there. There's still lack of control. And that is a terrifying concept. You'd just be stuck in that constant loop of subjecting yourself to the traumatic events that you've been through to try and find meaning over and over and it just sucks!! Because there's no meaning. You were traumatized and it's unfair and deeply saddening. You only have control over your own actions and eventually your own thoughts if you take the right path. It does get better. Try to find the meaning in yourself rather than the trauma.
It's okay for it not to be okay. The damage doesn't have to be good damage. How things begin isn't as important as how things end. Keep moving forward. Live for yourself. Be happy for yourself. I believe you can and will be happy one day. I'm praying for you
I ended a creative project after I went through a very traumatic time in my life, because I realized continuing that project would make me relive the whole trauma publicly. I couldn't do that to myself. I couldn't put myself through emotional prison again. I had to move on. I like to think what I do now has value because it brings joy to others without exposing nerves about myself. Art isn't automatically deep or meaningful because it's about pain.
This is something that I’ve noticed a lot of people seem to struggle with. They want to think that they’re suffering meant something, that it had some greater purpose, or was part of some plan. Now, putting aside that most suffering that is part of a plan is usually part of an insidious and malicious plan, the truth of the matter is that our pain rarely means anything. In other words, random suffering is just that, random.
I've been writing Cobra Kai fan fiction. I know lots of people think it's a dumb cheesy 80s nostalgia show but writing it is the only time I feel truly connected and happy and at peace. And oddly enough I have been expanding more on themes of trauma, self realization, addiction, bullying etc. that I feel are present in the show but aren't really explored. It means a lot to me. But I also have the awareness that other people would think it's stupid and cheesy.
I resonate as someone in the creative field thinking about how one day I'll create something that tells my story and that it wasn't all for nothing. That I could make something that tells a story not represented.
Sad little girls want escape and adventure, they don't want to read sad stuff and that will only grow as they age. If you can sneak good messages about neglect being bad and bullying etc into fun kids fiction, that's how you reach them. I'm glad Bojack more or less told Diane and like minded people that no one cares about your pain, you have to move past it and make something good. And I love that Diane is in her late 30's when she realises this, you can grow at any age and I love media that shows that
1:08 OMG I'VE BEEN THINKING THE SAME THIS WHOLE TIME. In a certain way, I think my trauma, suffering and abuse made me special. The people should be kind and understanding with me because of that. But I can't base all my existence in the damage I got. Just I don't know how to do the opposite.
@@Love-vr3qxIt’s a common way to think. Many people want to justify or make the best out of their trauma. Phrases like “it’s all part of God’s plan” or “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” further encourage this form of thinking. It’s a coping mechanism for many, because the alternative is terrifying. That’s why it’s such a bitter pill to swallow to recognize that there is no reason for trauma. There’s no secret plan or bigger reason for it happening, it just…happens, and it sucks.
After watching this scene years ago I can finally say I understand it. I'd been working on a story that related to my own struggles, but recently I came up with a fun cute story idea and I've never felt more excited to work on something... I'll still probably work on the other story after since it's a passion project, but man am I enjoying myself, it's more healing than anything.
Might be missing the mark, but the thing I took away from this clip (and the comments) is that dwelling on your trauma and sadness for too long won't help you heal. Sugarcoat it all you want, but it will still be just damage; there's no goodness to that. Only by moving on and finding joy in your life can you truly begin to heal. You owe it to yourself to have a clean slate ❤
Thinking back to it now, what her family did with the pen pal is seriously fucked up. Imagine this, you finally think you have a safe space now, someone to outlet your frustrations and inner feelings to, especially with a family that neglects you. Then realizing your family was all behind it, the very people you didn’t want to open up to, and them exploiting that trust by hiring a HOMELESS MAN TO HER HOMECOMING, and recording it, referencing it, even decades later with no remorse. My god the fact she even functions correctly after that.
Diane's trying to construct a coherent narrative of her life, integrating her past traumas, into a meaningful whole. It's essentially an effort to engage with her own hermeneutic circle - she's trying to understand the "whole" of her life by examining its individual parts (her experiences, traumas, relationships). Simultaneously, she's attempting to reinterpret those individual experiences (the parts) in light of the overall narrative (the whole) she's trying to construct. Each time she examines a part of her life, it shifts her understanding of the whole. Like when she reflects on her childhood trauma. So Diane's struggle isn't just writer's block; it's the inherent difficulty of trying to fix a definitive meaning to a life that is continually being reinterpreted. Also, Diane's present self (shaped by all her past experiences), is the lens through which she's viewing and interpreting her past. Diane can't step outside of her current self to view her past objectively; she's always interpreting it from her present perspective. This circular nature of understanding explains why Diane finds it so hard to complete her memoir. Each insight leads to new questions, each answer reshapes the overall narrative, which in turn changes how she views individual events. It's a never-ending process of interpretation and reinterpretation.
her problem is intellectualizing her trauma that it comes off as fetishizing it. i kinda get that, i tend to intellectualize my feelings of sadness to make myself feel better
I feel like diane is a real person and i think the bojack crew needs to make a book under her name im very interested to read it (and later on a PC film adaption obviously)
Earlier in the episode, PC and Judah talk about movie adaptations from different characters' POVs e.g. Peter Pan from Wendy's POV. Here, we see the showcase from the last episode, but from Diane's POV instead of BoJack's. The dialogue is next level.
"Not everything has to have a reason. Things happen. So stop looking for reasons and explanations and evidences for who's to blame." This is what 16 year old me wrote to 22 year old me in an email.
Honestly, PC was right. The only book that was gonna help those little girls feel less alone was the Ivy Tram one. The one of essays was gonna be too late and the point is trying to help people in their formative years
As a writer Diane in this episode was literally me, every word she said came out of my soul and honestly... It didn't fucking help! First time I watched it, it only hurt me less, but now, a year or so, I happen to just find this ahort and it's still me right there in that scene. And I still don't know what it all was for, but the only difference is that now I'm better. And I feel better about this scene. Maybe you don't need to know what was the point of this whole shit happening, maybe you just need to make piece with it. And maybe I can write this other book.
I saw this episode for the first time when I was 14, and it actually changed my life. Before that, I always wanted to become a psychologist, and to go help kids, to somehow make up for all the things I've went trough as a child. After watching I realized it's not healthy, and I woudl just make myself feel worse. Damn, I love this episode and Diane's character so much
What I really like about this scene beyond Diane's self reflection is PC's words about how she wants her daughter to grow up in a world where these kinds of books are made. Even in this moment she still thinks of her daughter and what would make her happy. I love that about her. Princess Carolyn is a great mother.
I like the bit about i want my kid to read this or if thier not a reader a film version. That also shows acceptance and the fact she is thinking ahead.
In my mind, I always pair this scene with “The Old Sugarman Place,” the episode where we learn that Bojack’s whole family trauma ultimately stems from Beatrice’s brother dying in World War 2, a mass historical event that affected countless millions. When bad stuff happens to us, we want to believe it’s for a reason: God is testing us or preparing us for something or punishing us for our sins. That’s all narcissism though. Bad things happen to you because bad things happen to everyone. It’s just the rolling tragedy of the world.
Wanting to find meaning in suffering is so human and I have so much compassion for Diane. My thing is I knew early on (like childhood) that although lots of people explained different reasons why things happened from God to growth. And while we can glean things from what we live through, I knew, inherently it was for nothing. That things just happen, however wonderful or messed up they are. And maybe that's why it's so hard for me, and why I have been suicidal since I was young. It makes struggling so much harsher, crueler. That there's no grand purpose to pain, it's just pain.
Pain with meaning seems good pain, but pain is always a meaningless thing, Just be happy if you can, and try to be happy if you can't, You deserve better, you deserve happiness, you deserve everything except meaningless pain.
0:32 I like how Princess Carolyn is bewildered for a moment (The Rock Eyebrow raise meme 💀) then immediately goes back to listening to her sincerely. Idk it's such a small detail but I like how they put effort in it sometimes 😂 Big ups to the animators
Because if I can't find something to say about the shitty parts of my life, then what was the point of them? The shit in your life and the shit in your bowels belong in the same toilet, and for good reason. You get rid of them in order to make room for something good, something better, something that's actually going to give you life.
This is the most horrible realisation for someone with this background. That it wasn’t set up for your greatness or a God’s test. It was just circumstance that you had to endure. It might have made you stronger but in the real world going through that doesn’t matter in regards to your dreams. To anyone reading this in this position right now, just know that it really doesn’t last forever. But also the scene touches on the fact that letting go of that trauma (writing the fun detective book) can be the way forward. Learn from it and move forward as much as it may seem difficult
“Because if I don't, that means all the damage I got isn't good damage. It's just damage. I have gotten nothing out of it, and all those years I was miserable was for nothing. I could’ve been- happy this whole time! And written books about girl detectives and been cheerful, and popular, and had good parents- is that what you’re saying?! What was it all for?“ - Dianne
Sometimes knowing that someone went through similar circumstances makes you feel like you’re not crazy for being upset about it. But it doesn’t make you feel better. Hardship is not a character building experience, hardship is misfortune, it makes you feel like you’re never gonna be worthy of feeling good or having nice things. And you’re not going to 100% of the time. But only allowing yourself to experience bad things in your life is still cherry picking. It doesn’t make sense to fill your basket with rotten cherries on purpose and say that’s all you deserve. Sometimes you’ll still have a bad experience, but throwing away good things isn’t going to make you feel better and it won’t help you grow. Be kind to yourself, mistakes happen, and cherries are actually pretty good if you give them a chance.
What Diane doesn't realize is that books and other media about damage and trauma isn't what made her feel less alone growing up. It was the corny happy family on Horsin' Around.
That is a great comment ❤
And we know this book does the same because even Sonny, a guy out of the age range for this book, found emotional resonance with it as a high schooler going through his parents’ divorce and probably other typical high school stuff.
Yesss! Same for me! Like going up Pokemon and the bonds between people and their friends made me happy
@@jessicatoussaint9140 also a pokemon friend growing up through trauma, its what i remember kept me afloat most
Same. I was a socially awkward kid growing up and I didn’t have a lot of friends. My mom was to some extent emotionally distant and had a very sharp temper.
It was optimistic children’s movies that made me feel less alone. The Barbie movies, Winnie the Pooh, the Little Engine that Could, these movies were what made me feel happy.
It helps knowing that Princess Carolyn came from a dysfunctional family, especially with a mother who put her down and faulted her for ever wanting and working for better
Yeah, she knows what it's like to try and process that trauma.
God dude, I know this is written with good intentions and to some degree you're right, but this is that "good damage" mentality...
I could be wrong though, trying to think about it more, it's confusing me a little
@@PandaBlackAndWhitr Diane is looking to capitalize on her being "damaged." Using your identify as clout is a huge cash grab these days. It's slowly dying off, however when this show was still ongoing, it was "the thing" to do.
The problem for the people wanting to capitalize on how "damaged" they are was when they discovered they really aren't all that damaged. Princess Carolyn didn't allow her damages to rue her life. She knew there were people in far worse situations than her.
Diane is the classic case of a privileged person, who didn't have to fight to go to school, didn't have to worry where she would sleep that night, didn't have to worry if she would get a meal that day, etc. etc. etc. So she began finding some angle in her life to "prove" how "damaged" she was. Her family was a bunch of working class New Yorkers who immigrated from Vietnam, and who decided to estrange themselves from their culture. It was their choice.
Diane, however, wanted something "deeper" than a secure life and opportunities, even though there are millions of girls who would love to be her in shoes. The new trend is not only proving who is more damaged, but how to bankroll your damages.
Diane is a good enough person not to lie about her damages. Many other people do in order to make money, however Diane wanted to be honest.
She could have embellished how "damaged" she was if she wanted. That her parents fled Vietnam and were forced into an American factory job and if they didn't act how much they loved baseball, their neighbors would hate them.
Diane was dismayed her parents willingly chose the life they did. There was nothing politically "sexy" or would grab a headline.
So Diane found herself in the uncomfortable position of coming from far less of an abrasive life than what she can sell to the public. Not if she is being honest anyway.
@@heidischultz6219 It's not just for clout or attention. It also doesn't mean someone is less damaged. People want to feel that the trauma they went through wasn't just for nothing.
@@PandaBlackAndWhitr you should watch the episode
"what was it all for?" I think anyone who's had a traumatic childhood can relate to it. It's so devastating when you realise there was no point because "maybe this made me special" is a coping mechanism.
Yeah. Our monkey brains always try to make sense out of chaos and random tragedies. Trauma is something you go through, not who you are. It's very reductive to think of great artists down to how the died, what vices they had or what mental disease they didn't overcome.
That is the reason why it isn’t special, it’s a chain you place to justify. Why should it be justified why should it drag. You break it be overcoming it.
As someone who writes creatively and studies literature academically I really related to his arch for her. I often punish myself because I don’t write proust or Byron. I write angsty YA fiction about and vampires seeking revenge and tragic love stories between childhood best friends and cute cosy neo Edwardian light fantasy stories about lesbian gangster witches who run away to a cottage in Cornwall. And sometimes I feel like that isn’t good enough. Because it’s not refined or intellectual. I’m not using all that damage I got from years of bullying and emotional neglect or the internalised Aphobia. And that sucks because I enjoy writing about these things. I love writing scenes where they breakdown and beg the other not to leave them. Or the tender scene when she pulls the shard of glass from her leg while they talk shit about their now ex husband. Where all those months of resentment and pain manifest into one dramatic moment of violence. It’s fun. And exciting. But it feels like a failing.
As someone who writes creatively and studies literature academically I really related to his arch for her. I often punish myself because I don’t write proust or Byron. I write angsty YA fiction about and vampires seeking revenge and tragic love stories between childhood best friends and cute cosy neo Edwardian light fantasy stories about lesbian gangster witches who run away to a cottage in Cornwall. And sometimes I feel like that isn’t good enough. Because it’s not refined or intellectual. I’m not using all that damage I got from years of bullying and emotional neglect or the internalised Aphobia. And that sucks because I enjoy writing about these things. I love writing scenes where they breakdown and beg the other not to leave them. Or the tender scene when she pulls the shard of glass from her leg while they talk shit about their now ex husband. Where all those months of resentment and pain manifest into one dramatic moment of violence. It’s fun. And exciting. But it feels like a failing.
I believe that Diane doesn’t realize she doesn’t have to keep dwelling on it. She doesn’t realize that she doesn’t have to keep being sad. She is in love with her depression.
Princess Carolyn's body language is exactly what Dianne needed. She moves towards her, not away, even though Dianne is getting more and more aggressive. She shows support and she shows she's not scared to deal with how raw Dianne and her emotions are. Takes guts, and is honestly one of the huge reasons PC is the true hero of the show
PC and Diane’s friendship is super underrated in my opinion
When I’m upset and lay in bed my cat always tries to cuddle me even when I push her away, I don’t know why I guess cats know when a person needs comfort
@@senjaoneill4861 fun fact: cats' purr can help with stress and depression and even cats themselves purr to calm theirselves to sleep. Idk the scientific terms but it's been proven by studies that they can relieve your stress
@@senjaoneill4861plus PC can relate to what she feels since she didn’t have the best home life growing up either
i love PC so much i love her strength
I think this is an important message of not fetishizing your trauma. Misery doesn't build character nor is it a trial to overcome.
“Misery builds character” is just a 🐂💩 excuse people use to justify bullying and abuse, and to blame the victim for “not being strong, tough or assertive enough”, purposely forgetting the fact that 99% of the victims are overpowered, have no means to defend themselves, and when they do seek help, they are even more bullied and abused for it because they are weak in their judgmental, envious eyes
@@veronicapiccinini7956 Worse part is being a victim of bullying or abuse doesn't stop you from becoming a bully or abuser yourself. It just makes it easier for you to excuse your actions.
@@kap1618 after all, “hurt people hurt people”. It’s the golden rule. But as a wise antihero says: “The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem”
Which means, while it’s true there are things in life that are outside of your control (like family abuse, natural disasters…), you have still the power to react towards this events, and it’s up to you to decide how.
Something I’ve already discussed in Steven Universe and The Owl House
@@veronicapiccinini7956 not like w golden rule exactly, more like "can be the case". some people weren't abused or anything and are just abusive because they're like that.
Well I mean it kind of is a trial to overcome. Because if you don’t you just stew in your misery making you stagnant or making your situation worse. And/or worst case scenario: suicide
This is why Bojack is good: while it isn't afraid to show the harsh realities of live, it avoid glorifying pain and suffering. Diane learns that more pain won't cure her trauma, but moving past it and doing something that fills her with joy.
If this was 13 Reasons Why, the dead protagonist would inspire a million best-seller authors who overdozed on heroine because "maybe it all had to be that way to start a conversation".
@@laurocoman Good point. It doesn't do anything but glorify death for ratings.
more like the harsh realities of proper grammar. nerd
“All this bad stuff that happened has to mean I’ll be happy in the end” can be such a punch in the gut when nothing works out in the end. Just because you suffered doesn’t automatically guarantee a happy future, so sometimes we fetishize our trauma in order to get that feeling. Like it was worth it. But at the end of the day: it just hurt.
I realize just now that "All this bad stuff that happened has to mean I’ll be happy in the end” thing is what Joseph Sugarman said to his daughter Beatrice when he burned her doll. It's so heartbreaking.
@@anabelleperez1109nd the audience knows that it didn’t. Beatrice’s life was shitty right to the very end. She gets into a loveless marriage that she only went through with because she got pregnant, and she ends up passing the same trauma down to her son Bojack, who also passes it on to other people in his life.
Oh and like her mother, she also dies with ‘half a mind’….
I think the most interesting thing about PC is that, differently than the other characters, she often knows what she wants and have a plan. While other people see this as being pushy, here's great example of how sometimes it is helpful. It was a beautiful bonding moment for Diane and PC 🥰
I mean she is still pushy but yeah she's the most self assured out of all the main characters, which is usually why she's stuck having to be the assertive one and fixing other people's problems
That scene just hits way too close to home. Damn.
Trust me, tears flowed through my eyes
I love how Diane sees that she CAN make a difference with her writing, even if she's not the next Sylvia Plath or bell hooks. That giving people escapism is vital, and that even a strong, masculine teenage boy like Sonny can enjoy it.
"My works are like water. The works of the great masters are like wine. But everyone drinks water."
- From Mark Twain's Notebook, 1885
'giving people escapism is vital' wow. profound. maybe think about what you just wrote lol
@@missingsig Everyone needs a break. Sometimes all you want is to get lost in a world of reading and not think about how shitty your life is. After an hour or two, you're back on your feet. In that sense, it _is_ important
I definitely sympathize with this but instead as an artist. During my last year of college I was preparing for my final project to be about my experience with being groomed online by a pedophile who was 7 years older than me when I was 13. I made a few sketches and a painting but it felt like I wasn't putting my emotions into it or it never felt good enough. I started avoiding the project altogether, even missing classes for weeks. Thankfully my professor understood what I was going through and told me to just paint what I want. Instead of painting something that made me relive the pain over and over again thinking back to what happened to me, I decided to paint roses, nature, a dragon ball, a snake with cats, and other things. It felt good to just paint and I realized why I loved painting. It was to escape the pain I feel and find joy in something that no one can take away from me. I passed the class with a B and realized that art should make me happy, not stressed. If people can channel their trauma into art, I think that's amazing! But I love seeing artists like me that have baggage and decide to use art as escapism.
All my congrulations dude
I like how Diane subtly acknowledges that all the times Princess Carolyn pushed her to do something she didn't want, she knew, deep down, that she was helping her, by challenging her with good opportunities that eventually boosted her upwards.
This episode really hit home. Currently I am just like Diane, at this point I don't even know who I am and was I supposed to be happy?
It won’t fix anything, but a cup of tea and a bun never fails to make me feel a little better
there is another part where diane siad. That she forgot what happiness was and pain was she all was known. That was also sad.
@@saskatoon16 I live in #yqr #sask so this is so relatable… UGH
you're not SUPPOSED to be anything, but if someone is telling you to be upset or unhappy, its a fun game to spite them. even if its yourself, tell that voice inside your head "get fucked and watch me smile"
@@happyllama1160 you're a pleasant person! i like this comment.
I used to try to write a story based on my awful life experiences so people could feel related to it and make them feel better. So I totally understand her. The need to take something good of the trauma and the pain. Maybe one day I might do it, maybe I won’t, but this show helped me realize that I’m not the trauma and the pain.
I also wanna write down my traumatic experience. I'm so worried that if I don't write the book, my damage is just damage, and I get nothing out of it. I don't wanna feel worthless. I don't wanna feel vulnerable without anyone loving me. That feels horrible.
@@ayumi1972mmm i understand you so much. you are not alone and i'm so so sure that you will get what you deserve, and if it won't be what you think you want, it will be what you need. something will come out of all the pain you've been through, and i would never say this to you if i didn't think it was true. keep going
@@ayumi1972mmm I feel the same way as you
hey, its been a year, how are you doing? i hope you are still winning the fight step by step
I like to think The book has some found family aspects in it. Like maybe the girl is at the mall all the time because she doesn’t really like going home. A janitor or someone at mall security notices the kid running around, doing what she does, and makes sure to keep an eye out for her to make sure she doesn’t get into trouble. Buys her food once in awhile- maybe becomes a nice side character.
Horsin Around gave Diane a home. And I think Dianes gonna give other kids homes too.
i vividly remember when i first watched this scene. i was 15, and it was the first time in my life that i truly felt heard. three years later and it still is. i don’t want to be great anymore, i don’t want my life to amount to something special, i just want to find someone who finally hears me, and then i’ll forget ever feeling like this. is that too much to ask for?
It's not too much to ask for. It's just unfortunate that we live in a world in which trauma from child abuse is still largely misunderstood
What i love about that scene is how much books like "the girl detective" book really shaped my, and other peoples', childhoods. It made them feel less alone.
So sweet, and so relatable as someone with trauma. I would try to write stories connected to my trauma, but forcing it doesn't make me happy. I don't have use my trauma as a means to justify my pain. My pain, my trauma, does not define me. The other aspects of myself do. I have found that when I write stories where I am not focused on my pain, I am happy. Not to say that bits of my life doesn't slip in. But I feel it should be natural. Having a traumatic childhood sucks. Literally. But it's not who I am. It's a building block into the person I am today, but I so much more than my damage.
I think Diane would agree with you on that ;)
Yeah
@@StarViewer68Yeah
This scene is, for me, one of the most powerful out of the entire series. It really encapsulates the whole moral I personally take from Bojack. That yes, life is full of pain and damage and bad decisions, and no none of it is for anything or secretly good. But that it doesn't need to define you, and that despite it all you can move forward and make something better if you choose to. That you can break away from the cycles and expectations that entrap you and make you miserable if you decide to. That it's worth it to write that other book. That's what I take from it anyway, both this scene and the show as a whole.
One this scene only and Diane’s voice break hits hard like a train
Bojack has a lot of scenes that are more obviously devastating or heart wrenching. But no scene has stuck with me as much as this one. I have never identified with a moment in tv history more then this right here. It seriously gave me a whole new appreciation for Diane
Diane shared one time how Horsin Around made her feel less alone despite it being a family comedy
So this is probably something that can work for her and her ultimate goal. If it makes her happy and it's easier for her to write rather than reminiscing in trauma, well at the end it's her judgement
Yeah, and also, there’s no reason to believe she won’t be able to write her book of essays down the line. Maybe in the future she’ll be in a better mental state and she can write about her trauma and abuse in a way that’s satisfactory for her. Maybe she’s just not mentally ready yet, that can sometimes happen with creative endeavors. Sometimes it’s just a matter of waiting for the right time.
@@gothicMCRgirlAh yeah you’re right
this episode felt like therapy
PC just gets it. She’s such a wise character to me. She’s had a tough upbringing too
As somebody who tried to write and who was a bully victim, disabled and also queer who grew up with sociopaths (yep, my luck) this actually got me. When growing up I realized I didn't want to write about my pain, I realized I felt complete when I wrote about the things that make me happy, the things I wanted to happen when I was younger, even if it's pure fantasy. It made me happy when some people who read my stuff felt less alone when reading it. It doesn't change the world or solve its problems, but it works as a good break from a harsh reality, for both me who Im writing and those who might read it.
And who knows? If Diane was a real person, I would advise her to write an special episode that reflects her childhood situation and her main character would help a child struggling like she did, instead of making her wholse series about it.
I used to watch this scene a lot before I got diagnosed with depression; I am glad that it does not try to glorify the pain we go through
I think this is probably one of the most important conversations they put on the show. One of the hardest things to come to terms with abuse is that it really just *is*. There’s no reason, purpose, or meaning to it. You just live with the damage and have to figure out how to be a whole person despite somebody having stolen a different path you could have had from you.
Society loves to dress suffering and cruelty in panoply. Religions tell us God is testing us or we are on the righteous path to nirvana. Capitalism tells us you have to work very hard to expect any reward. We get told rigorous discipline is preferable to gentleness. It benefits a lot of people to say suffering is what makes us who we are because it removes the responsibility from people to help make a better world and sticks the culpability on the victim to make something of themselves.
Diane told us you don’t have to keep buying into that myth for everybody else’s comfort. That’s the choice you do have. To recognize the reality and come to terms with it.
Ah shit I'm male Diane. It seems that I had wasted my life feeling sorry for myself thinking this would bring character. It doesn't, it's just the only feeling that makes sense to me.
Exactly
I was watching a great video essay about Better Call Saul that described the main character Saul Goodman/Jimmy McGill as follows: "self-pity is about as close as Jimmy ever gets to self-relfection" and I had to pause the video and just let that sink in for a moment because I felt so seen by that observation. your comment made me realize that Diane is like a more emotionally intelligent Jimmy McGill, which is quite the connection to make lol I love it when prestige dramas can be thematically connected to the funny talking horse show
Princess Carolyn is a good person,even when she wasn't sure how to comfort Diane she still tried her best
At first while watching this, I just wanted Diane to be happy and write her fun book. But really taking it in, it hurts and I understand. Amazing, famous figures have awful backstories, but yet became legends we look up to and use to push ourselves. In a way Bojack was like that, especially with Diane. So when Diane gets stressed and angry with herself over the book, it truly is understandable. Diane wasn’t a well known figure in history, and she tried to be that, to do something that had a meaning to the world. But it only caused more pain. So if she could at least write the book of her struggles, it would at least amount to something, to help younger girls. But making something like that mystery book, and being successful from that instead of her pain sounds more peaceful. The fruits of labor should be cherished, not the pain caused from making it.
I love that Diane doesn’t hesitate with her words
Unlike most characters would have
Shows how self actual used she really is
This one was hard to watch. I relate to Diane waaaaay too much.
I think the hardest thing to accept about trauma is that trauma just... Is. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it and something amazing and worthwhile doesn't always come out of the aftermath. Sometimes bad things happen and maybe one day you'll move past them eventually if you work hard enough at it, but you're more than likely not going to forget. Trauma is what it is and, unfortunately, you can't change it.
“What was it all for?” Felt that as someone who from the age of 10 to 14 was awoken up by her father at 5:30am to run laps of the court, then the block, then the neighbourhood and eventually the city. All the years of pain and abuse my body endured all for me to give it up over lack of emotional will. It is so strange to be on the end of it, cause it wasn’t good damage, I never ended up at the Olympics or made it past nationals. It was just damage. Now I’m left with a body on the verge of breaking down and a life that has no point. And of course parents who don’t give a shit whether I end up dead on the side of the road now I can’t win titles for them.
This scene hits so so so much. Trauma is so scary and horrifying and you're often just sitting there trying to make sense out of it, trying to add meaning. Trying to gain control over something you never had control over sucks huge balls and I think Diane trying to "save" her younger self who was abused by writing this book would ultimately ended up destroying her in the end if she ever did complete the book (she doesn't). Because that trauma is still there. There's still lack of control. And that is a terrifying concept. You'd just be stuck in that constant loop of subjecting yourself to the traumatic events that you've been through to try and find meaning over and over and it just sucks!! Because there's no meaning. You were traumatized and it's unfair and deeply saddening. You only have control over your own actions and eventually your own thoughts if you take the right path. It does get better. Try to find the meaning in yourself rather than the trauma.
It's okay for it not to be okay. The damage doesn't have to be good damage. How things begin isn't as important as how things end. Keep moving forward. Live for yourself. Be happy for yourself. I believe you can and will be happy one day. I'm praying for you
Literally one of my favorite scenes of tv
There is no other show that has made me laugh and cry at the same time. Thank you, Bojack Horseman.
I wish I got to see more scenes like this, with these two! But it was worth the wait!
I'm still amazed of how well written is the character of Diane
I wish I could rewatch Bojack all over again.
I ended a creative project after I went through a very traumatic time in my life, because I realized continuing that project would make me relive the whole trauma publicly.
I couldn't do that to myself. I couldn't put myself through emotional prison again. I had to move on.
I like to think what I do now has value because it brings joy to others without exposing nerves about myself.
Art isn't automatically deep or meaningful because it's about pain.
This is something that I’ve noticed a lot of people seem to struggle with.
They want to think that they’re suffering meant something, that it had some greater purpose, or was part of some plan.
Now, putting aside that most suffering that is part of a plan is usually part of an insidious and malicious plan, the truth of the matter is that our pain rarely means anything.
In other words, random suffering is just that, random.
diane kinnie moment
hate how true this is
hearing audios like this then finding the original i think “of course it’s bojack.”
Don't willfully live in your own misery.
Princess Carolyn is best girl. I love her.
I've been writing Cobra Kai fan fiction. I know lots of people think it's a dumb cheesy 80s nostalgia show but writing it is the only time I feel truly connected and happy and at peace. And oddly enough I have been expanding more on themes of trauma, self realization, addiction, bullying etc. that I feel are present in the show but aren't really explored. It means a lot to me. But I also have the awareness that other people would think it's stupid and cheesy.
write whatever u want to write it doesnt matter what ppl think whats cheesy or not ! do it for urself
I resonate as someone in the creative field thinking about how one day I'll create something that tells my story and that it wasn't all for nothing. That I could make something that tells a story not represented.
I freaking love how Dian express herself.
Trauma doesn't equal being special
Sad little girls want escape and adventure, they don't want to read sad stuff and that will only grow as they age. If you can sneak good messages about neglect being bad and bullying etc into fun kids fiction, that's how you reach them. I'm glad Bojack more or less told Diane and like minded people that no one cares about your pain, you have to move past it and make something good. And I love that Diane is in her late 30's when she realises this, you can grow at any age and I love media that shows that
1:08 OMG I'VE BEEN THINKING THE SAME THIS WHOLE TIME. In a certain way, I think my trauma, suffering and abuse made me special. The people should be kind and understanding with me because of that. But I can't base all my existence in the damage I got. Just I don't know how to do the opposite.
Thats stupid to think
@@Love-vr3qxIt’s a common way to think. Many people want to justify or make the best out of their trauma. Phrases like “it’s all part of God’s plan” or “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” further encourage this form of thinking. It’s a coping mechanism for many, because the alternative is terrifying.
That’s why it’s such a bitter pill to swallow to recognize that there is no reason for trauma. There’s no secret plan or bigger reason for it happening, it just…happens, and it sucks.
After watching this scene years ago I can finally say I understand it. I'd been working on a story that related to my own struggles, but recently I came up with a fun cute story idea and I've never felt more excited to work on something... I'll still probably work on the other story after since it's a passion project, but man am I enjoying myself, it's more healing than anything.
Might be missing the mark, but the thing I took away from this clip (and the comments) is that dwelling on your trauma and sadness for too long won't help you heal. Sugarcoat it all you want, but it will still be just damage; there's no goodness to that. Only by moving on and finding joy in your life can you truly begin to heal. You owe it to yourself to have a clean slate ❤
bojack is a show that I wish I had written exactly the way it is written.
Thinking back to it now, what her family did with the pen pal is seriously fucked up. Imagine this, you finally think you have a safe space now, someone to outlet your frustrations and inner feelings to, especially with a family that neglects you. Then realizing your family was all behind it, the very people you didn’t want to open up to, and them exploiting that trust by hiring a HOMELESS MAN TO HER HOMECOMING, and recording it, referencing it, even decades later with no remorse. My god the fact she even functions correctly after that.
Diane's trying to construct a coherent narrative of her life, integrating her past traumas, into a meaningful whole. It's essentially an effort to engage with her own hermeneutic circle - she's trying to understand the "whole" of her life by examining its individual parts (her experiences, traumas, relationships). Simultaneously, she's attempting to reinterpret those individual experiences (the parts) in light of the overall narrative (the whole) she's trying to construct.
Each time she examines a part of her life, it shifts her understanding of the whole. Like when she reflects on her childhood trauma. So Diane's struggle isn't just writer's block; it's the inherent difficulty of trying to fix a definitive meaning to a life that is continually being reinterpreted.
Also, Diane's present self (shaped by all her past experiences), is the lens through which she's viewing and interpreting her past. Diane can't step outside of her current self to view her past objectively; she's always interpreting it from her present perspective. This circular nature of understanding explains why Diane finds it so hard to complete her memoir. Each insight leads to new questions, each answer reshapes the overall narrative, which in turn changes how she views individual events. It's a never-ending process of interpretation and reinterpretation.
her problem is intellectualizing her trauma that it comes off as fetishizing it. i kinda get that, i tend to intellectualize my feelings of sadness to make myself feel better
such a fucking underrated episode
I feel like diane is a real person and i think the bojack crew needs to make a book under her name im very interested to read it (and later on a PC film adaption obviously)
This sound is carrying StudyTok
Earlier in the episode, PC and Judah talk about movie adaptations from different characters' POVs e.g. Peter Pan from Wendy's POV. Here, we see the showcase from the last episode, but from Diane's POV instead of BoJack's. The dialogue is next level.
Princess Carolyn just casually solving everyone else’s problems, again. 😂
shes so good at it lmaooo
I think the line “maybe this book does that too” changed my perspective on my own art
"Not everything has to have a reason. Things happen. So stop looking for reasons and explanations and evidences for who's to blame."
This is what 16 year old me wrote to 22 year old me in an email.
"I don't fetishize my own unhappiness"
And again I say: sure
Honestly, PC was right. The only book that was gonna help those little girls feel less alone was the Ivy Tram one. The one of essays was gonna be too late and the point is trying to help people in their formative years
As a writer Diane in this episode was literally me, every word she said came out of my soul and honestly...
It didn't fucking help!
First time I watched it, it only hurt me less, but now, a year or so, I happen to just find this ahort and it's still me right there in that scene. And I still don't know what it all was for, but the only difference is that now I'm better. And I feel better about this scene. Maybe you don't need to know what was the point of this whole shit happening, maybe you just need to make piece with it. And maybe I can write this other book.
I need a PC, everybody needs a PC in their life
I saw this episode for the first time when I was 14, and it actually changed my life.
Before that, I always wanted to become a psychologist, and to go help kids, to somehow make up for all the things I've went trough as a child. After watching I realized it's not healthy, and I woudl just make myself feel worse.
Damn, I love this episode and Diane's character so much
What I really like about this scene beyond Diane's self reflection is PC's words about how she wants her daughter to grow up in a world where these kinds of books are made. Even in this moment she still thinks of her daughter and what would make her happy. I love that about her. Princess Carolyn is a great mother.
I like the bit about i want my kid to read this or if thier not a reader a film version. That also shows acceptance and the fact she is thinking ahead.
this episode is my lifeline, actually.
In my mind, I always pair this scene with “The Old Sugarman Place,” the episode where we learn that Bojack’s whole family trauma ultimately stems from Beatrice’s brother dying in World War 2, a mass historical event that affected countless millions.
When bad stuff happens to us, we want to believe it’s for a reason: God is testing us or preparing us for something or punishing us for our sins. That’s all narcissism though. Bad things happen to you because bad things happen to everyone. It’s just the rolling tragedy of the world.
Diane sounds a lot like Bojack in this scene
i like that it was pc who had this talk with diane, since she had a bad childhood too and would understand her
Thanks for the pep talk Princess Carolyn
Wanting to find meaning in suffering is so human and I have so much compassion for Diane. My thing is I knew early on (like childhood) that although lots of people explained different reasons why things happened from God to growth.
And while we can glean things from what we live through, I knew, inherently it was for nothing. That things just happen, however wonderful or messed up they are. And maybe that's why it's so hard for me, and why I have been suicidal since I was young.
It makes struggling so much harsher, crueler. That there's no grand purpose to pain, it's just pain.
I know this speech SO well,,,, i identify si much with the scwnd and make me feel less alone
i feel like all/most arstists wanna a materpiece about that damage and pain and not being able to do that is a hard feeling
it’s from bojack horseman if you guys wanted the name of the show
This really spoke to me
it's so weird, but my brain thinks i can't do something i want to do if i could have done it earlier. so i just keep being miserable
a little bit too relatable diane
What Diane doesnt understand is that there is no good damage, theres just damage.
Pain with meaning seems good pain, but pain is always a meaningless thing, Just be happy if you can, and try to be happy if you can't,
You deserve better, you deserve happiness, you deserve everything except meaningless pain.
0:32 I like how Princess Carolyn is bewildered for a moment (The Rock Eyebrow raise meme 💀) then immediately goes back to listening to her sincerely. Idk it's such a small detail but I like how they put effort in it sometimes 😂
Big ups to the animators
this is a good ep that i've watched
Actually Diane's story helps me feel less lonely. And i hope i can find that ivy tran in my life
Because if I can't find something to say about the shitty parts of my life, then what was the point of them?
The shit in your life and the shit in your bowels belong in the same toilet, and for good reason. You get rid of them in order to make room for something good, something better, something that's actually going to give you life.
Man this is such a good message
Princess Carolyn is my favourite character in anything ever
This is the most horrible realisation for someone with this background. That it wasn’t set up for your greatness or a God’s test. It was just circumstance that you had to endure. It might have made you stronger but in the real world going through that doesn’t matter in regards to your dreams. To anyone reading this in this position right now, just know that it really doesn’t last forever. But also the scene touches on the fact that letting go of that trauma (writing the fun detective book) can be the way forward. Learn from it and move forward as much as it may seem difficult
I like that message ❤
“Because if I don't, that means all the damage I got isn't good damage. It's just damage. I have gotten nothing out of it, and all those years I was miserable was for nothing. I could’ve been- happy this whole time! And written books about girl detectives and been cheerful, and popular, and had good parents- is that what you’re saying?! What was it all for?“
- Dianne
I miss bojack horseman
this show is so sweet and sad, its actually a good adult show, and i love it for that
Sometimes knowing that someone went through similar circumstances makes you feel like you’re not crazy for being upset about it.
But it doesn’t make you feel better.
Hardship is not a character building experience, hardship is misfortune, it makes you feel like you’re never gonna be worthy of feeling good or having nice things.
And you’re not going to 100% of the time.
But only allowing yourself to experience bad things in your life is still cherry picking. It doesn’t make sense to fill your basket with rotten cherries on purpose and say that’s all you deserve.
Sometimes you’ll still have a bad experience, but throwing away good things isn’t going to make you feel better and it won’t help you grow.
Be kind to yourself, mistakes happen, and cherries are actually pretty good if you give them a chance.
People come with a past and baggage and you can’t just use an eraser over it babe. I’m not an infant with no past and no future like you Ang
Holy shit it’s a talking cat!