@Johnny G cashing I mean that doesn't really apply here, that quote meant that people who really know you and care about you love you, because you matter to them, but they don't like you, because regardless of the sentimental bonds you have with them, they see how bad of a person you are, or at least how much trouble and pain you cause, and how immature you are; the chanting situation is quite the opposite: everybody likes him because for them he's the cool star, but no one loves him, no one actually cares about him
@@hughjanis8065 Not all their faults. Some faults are unacceptable. Among those that are unacceptable, there are those you try to help them fix, and those that tell you that the person you love isn't that person. Either way, if someone doesn't want to change for the better, they won't.
@Sammy N spoiler..... At the end of the series bojack ends up drowning himself by accident but, while dying he has a "final" dream, in the dream he eventually realizes what happened and calls diane to help him, only to realize that she is in a different city and he is completely alone. Which is ironic concerning this scene
@@Dolberggames It wasn't really an accident. He was drunk out of his mind, but he told Diane on the phone that if she didn't pick up, he would "go swimming." If you go swimming while wasted..
He had to. One of the (if not the) most important themes of the show was how Bojack suffered for never being truly held accountable for his actions and therefore was never forced to make the changes he was not strong enough to make on his own. Dying would have been "the easy way out" for him and would have not fit the overall narrative here. The logical ending of his arc was that he finally loses everything, is punished for his crimes and gets a chance to become a better person. This show was too smartly written to have Bojack die, that would have been too obvious. Too easy. Ofc that's just my interpretation.
@@danielschroedinger2090 With the number of relapses he had, he was doomed. Realistically, I don't think he should have survived. But it is what it is.
evil spoon Seriously, finish it. One of the episodes from the last season (not going to spoil which one, but people who’ve finished the show, know which one I’m talking about) literally made me sit in silence and think for about 20 minutes, because it was so damn dark and fucked up, but incredibly beautiful at the same time. Just a “wow” moment. I’d say, one of the best TV show episodes ever.
Thatone Theotherone Diane doesn’t fetishize her own sadness. She does not feel comfortable with it like Bojack does. That’s why she goes to therapy, that’s why she stops getting into conflict, and it’s why she decides to stop talking to Bojack. Bojack was projecting when he said that line. Bojack feels comfortable with his sadness. He feels comfortable using it as an excuse for his behavior and he doesn’t actively try to change it. It’s what he knows
Knife Cat Diane fetishizes her sadness too, but she finally realizes it when she’s writing her book and she’s sad that all the shitty things that have happened to her might not amount to anything - they’re just shitty things that have happened to her. She realizes it, and tries to be better, which is something Bojack never does.
@@umiuniverse_ That's not really fetishizing sadness. Fetishizing sadness means you feel comfortable in it and don't want to leave it. That was never the case for Diane. Her holding onto those thoughts and feelings for her book wasn't a case of her fetishizing her sadness. The only reason she held onto it is for the chance that maybe if she could somehow turn all of the shitty moments in her life into a work of art it may help people get through their shitty moments. She explains this very concept to Princess Carolyn. When Diane realized that she couldn't do it, she had no reason to hold onto it. Much like how she realized that she didn't have to hold on to Bojack in order for her experiences with him to matter. Fetishizing sadness isn't the same as just being depressed. Evidence that Bojack fetishizes his sadness is when he calls Diane saying he's drunk and gonna go swimming and if she doesn't come save him that means she didn't really care. He's using his sadness as the excuse to call Diane, instead of just doing it. Sadness for Bojack is a tool he uses to get others to communicate with him. Bojack lives and breathes within his sadness which is why he needed to go to therapy. Diane was never in that state.
Now i realize Bojack was extremelly shitty to diane, despite him mistreating her in the long run in this spesific moment he used all her insecuirities against her, just to make him feel good about suposedly beign "happy"
Nah they both just stepped on each other's toes. She checked in on Bojack bc she knows getting what he thinks he wanted is dangerous for him, and he in return confronted her about her new approach to life, which he knew wasn't right for her. Both took offense so it got into a petty fight, that's all. They are rly alike in a lot of ways. I mean Diane is the better person, no doubt, but still. Plus it isn't like she never goes a few steps too far with him.
Looking back at this scene, it obvious how Diane and Bojack just enabled each other's depressive spirals. They could understand each other's depression, but understanding doesnt mean that their interactions were good for their trauma. Even if PB couldnt understand Diane, he was still miles better than Bojack in terms of keeping her grounded.
I don't think PB was good for her, but still, at least he TRIED. He was self-centered, and he didn't understand her, but he did genuinely want her to be happy.
PB tried to make her happy but he had no interest in actually getting to know her properly. How many times did she say she liked privacy and hates a lot of attention? How many times did she make it clear that she hates the grand gestures he does? But he never listened and just did whatever he decided should make her happy anyway. He even got angry with her if she didn't "appreciate" the things he did enough. And look at the actual gestures themselves. Bojack stole the D from the Hollywood sign as a gesture of his affection for Diane, but didn't remember doing it. So PB took the credit even though he had nothing to do with it. The "library" he built for her was just filled with fake books. The gestures seem sweet on the surface, but they're all essentially hollow and only there because he wants attention and praise. He isn't as well intentioned and kind as he tries to pretend he is. I mean, are we forgetting he even cheated on his new girlfriend with Diane? He's honestly just like Bojack in so many ways. He's just as selfish, manipulative and judgmental. But unlike Bojack who tries to get love and support from others through pity and self destruction, he tries to get it through faux kindness, friendliness and performative generosity. He's the toxic positivity to Bojack's catastrophizing. I'd say Bojack makes Diane feel like she's not alone in her depression and self loathing which can be good, just like PB made her feel genuinely cared for and like someone actually wants her to be happy. But neither of these things made her feel truly loved and SEEN. If you want to talk about keeping her grounded, Guy was the one who probably does that best. He loves her no matter what, supports her and has always understood and accepted her for who she is. I'm so glad she got away from that whole toxic mess in L.A. If she hadn't, it would have destroyed her.
This show has no business being as good as it is. How tf is a cartoon about an alcoholic horse the most intelligently written piece of TV drama I have ever seen?
Great art can come from anywhere, and animation gives people the ability to literally build a premise, world, and characters from the ground-up. That, and I think the slapstick and anthropomorphized animals are a trick to disarm people when the funny, wisecracking alcoholic horse almost rapes a minor. The whiplash of that last sentence is basically the MO of the show.
“Listen to that chanting Diane. The chanting don’t lie.” That. That is why I struggle to feel sorry for him in the end. He always trusted the crowd appeal over everything else. He chased the sympathy interviews so hard that he pushed away Princess. The ONE person who would have always been in his corner. It’s great writing because that’s a realistic portrayal of a character flaw. Something so ingrained in him that throughout the whole series he never even considered it was a problem.
Yeah it was kinda installed in him by his mom. Like you remember that one flashback where he was a kid and crying under the table and his mom said “go sing the lollipop song” and something like go please them and don’t stop dancing
The free churro episode sorta contextualised it with him saying he always believed loving someone was being bad then pulling a grand act like they do in movies but yeah it’s a problem he never truly recognised
The saddest part to me is that Bojack doesn't even deny that he would kill himself after. Normally someone might've said "I won't kill myself!" or "There'll be plenty of people around *IF* I kill myself". That difference between "If" and "When" hurts so much.
The difference between Diane and Bojack is that Diane (despite experiencing depression) identifies her flaws and tries her hardest to always make the right decisions for herself; she doesn’t like to self sabotage and let herself spiral down into fuck ups. Bojack is the complete opposite because he thinks him feeling shitty and sorry for himself is justified. The difference between Diane and Bojack is that Bojack is the one who fetishizes his own sadness.
Diane did fetishize her sadness in a way, though. She thought it gave her an "edge" as a writer, which led her to pick a memoir as a writing project despite not being able to make any sense of her trauma, and avoid the young adult novel that she actually wanted to write. She even tried to cold turkey her antidepressants because of that. Further, I think what we're calling "fetishization" is a coping mechanism that's pretty natural to fall into, but is not particularly healthy. Bojack calls it that because he's lashing out, but even if it's unhealthy, I don't think that framing is fair.
@@theoriginalrandomman Well Bojack labels it as “fetishizing” because that’s what Ana labels it as when Bojack originally feels indifferent to the Oscar. It shows how he’s projecting his insecurities. I don’t even think Bojack really knows if he’s properly using the word, he just knew it would bother Diane.
(SPOILERS FOR BOJACK HORSEMAN) season 3 bojack: there's going to be plenty of people around when i kill myself! season 6 bojack: (alone dying in the pool) no one was there to stop him, just like diane said. i know bojack's alive but I DON'T CARE IT STILL HURTS
I think that was such a good choice on the creators' part tho. People can be there for you, support you, help you through. But nobody can "save" you. You need to do that yourself. You need to take responsibility. It's not right to put the responsibility for your life on someone else. In a way, you need to save yourself. And in the end, that's what BoJack did... (Just a sidenote I need to put in here: the fact that in the end it's your battle _does not mean_ you have to do it all alone. It doesn't even mean that you should. When it comes to things like depression, you simply cannot just force your brain to start making the chemicals right, you can't solve that with your own will and effort. Sometimes the way you can help yourself is to reach out to professional help.. absolutely no shame in that. If anything, it's a mark of strength and courage, *not* weakness or inability.)
@@efoxkitsune9493 that was just great writing. it still hurts thinking that bojack was just alone and in the end, when he's in prison, he's not gonna ask for diane's help. he has to save himself. literally the only people who are there for him are mr. peanutbutter and todd. that's it really.
@@sidneywade2454 Hmmm, I don't really think so...? I mean yes, Diane needs to kind of let him go and have her own life, because he was just too much of a toxic presence in her life, and as much as she loves him, she needs to move on. Which is totally fair and probably for the best. But PC is gonna stay (hopefully) a part of his life as well... only this time only as a friend, and not an agent. She's finally learning to separate her personal and professional life. And she will also always love him. Just this time maybe from a slightly bigger distance... she won't get roped into his drama, but she's still there to support him. I think she is just setting some healthy boundaries. And yes, everyone will ultimately move on with their lives. Whether together or away from each other, we can't really tell. But that's just what happens in life... :) It doesn't mean they're abandoning him or anything. It's healthy... This show did it so well.
@@efoxkitsune9493 well, yeah, okay, princess carolyn is probably gonna stay with bojack as a friend. actually, now that i think about it, the only person who pushed bojack away is diane... dang it, this is too depressing. i gotta watch some death note.
“I heard about you being nominated for an Oscar and I wanted to check up on you.” Diane has got to be one of the most thoughtful friends ever, and Bojack basically makes her feel like shit for most of the show.
@@butdoicaretho Yeah but she also cheated with her ex twice after promising his new girlfriend she didn't have to worry and still refused to get back with him just ruining a relationship for nothing😊
@@galaxywanderer5508at the end of the day it was also PB's fault plus that girl wasn't the best for him either. Like they could just break up but they went into an exhaustive search to find the perfect guy she could cheat on him that hurt and when she finally found it, she dumped PB over him like it was nothing.
This isn’t toxicity, it’s just what happens as you get older this is reality. Not every relationship in your life is going to be all sunshine and rainbows sometimes there are going to be rough patches and that’s when you need to decide for yourself if your mature enough to get through them or just give up on the connection entirely.
Sierra- 024 What are you talking about? 😂😂 Bojack is a narcissist and all of his relationships are toxic. Denying this shits on the core point of the show. And if your relationships look like this and you think that’s normal, maybe you ARE the Bojack in your life.
@@ray-0249 uhm NO if your relationships are anything remotely like this then you need to reevaluate not only yourself but the relationship that you choose to keep with people. Adult relationships aren't supposed to be this toxic.
Isn’t the whole point of the show that Bojack fetishizes himself and his sadness, as he sabotages all of his relationships? And then Todd says that one monologue and people commit to several seasons that will never meet that standard.
my favorite detail is when he says "there's gonna be plenty of people around when i kill myself" and then he has that look on his face - a brief moment of self awareness and realization. it's implied that none of these people care about him; he's just a piece of entertainment to them, a show. they're gonna be around when he kills himself because it's a celebrity scandal, not because they care enough to try and stop him
2:08 literally just the type of feeling Bojack is talking about when he says "everyone loves u, but nobody likes u, and that's the loneliest feeling in the world". He has people at his house to party and they enjoy being around him, but really none of them care about him
I think that if the Show had ended with Bojack killing himself in the pool the point of the whole Show would have been lost. I think the point is that you have the responsibility of your acts, you are the one who decides. Despite your trauma, despite your depression, despite feeling bad about yourself. All of that doesn't justify your actions, YOU are the one that is damaging people, you are the one being mean, you are the one neglecting every relationship you have. That is why you are the one that has to take this big step of ending that toxic behaviours, it's in your hands to start being a better person, to feel a little better day after day, in your hands is the chance to admit that you are not okay and that you want to start feeling okay. But the biggest issue is recognise that you have a problem, of course
2:10 not only does his voice crack, but Diane say 'nobody will be there to _stop_ you from killing yourself' and he's saying 'plenty of people will be there _when i do_ kill myself.' Those are 2 very different things
Not to mention, she doesn’t even say that he will kill himself, she just say, “you’ll want to kill yourself and there’ll be nobody left to stop you,” but he says, “when I kill myself,” meaning that it’ll absolutely happen, and _he’ll go through with it when it happens…_ Again, two very different things.
I don’t get how people can hate Diane more than Bojack, he quite literally wants to kill himself out of spite, so Diane has to live with overwhelming guilt for the rest of her life. Because she fell out with an unstable man.
Honestly, the reasons (or lack thereof) that people (men) hate diane more than Bojack always read as huge red flags to me. They call her hypocritical, yet condone Bojack doing things and acting in ways they criticize her for. Their real issue is so obvious.
@@renee000 Yet isn’t that what you’re doing with bojack lmao. Lol it’s literally the opposite ppl support Diana say her behaviors don’t make her terrible person. They see him as huge villain but shows not about that . It’s shows how things aren’t black and white as you make them to be. I find it big red flag that they don’t see how Diana is like mirror of bojack. I find it very disturbing that ppl aren’t upset at her for telling him he’s going to kill himself alone and have no one . Simply because he said we’re the same. She can’t handle being told truth but she judges others so hard expects them to just take it. But don’t criticize her ever. She puts fears in his head and can’t let him enjoy the night because why? How does that help him? Instead of just supporting him. She’s projecting her fear on to him, someone she knows isn’t stable. She handled herself very wrong. That’s not how you talk to a suicidal person. Very immature thinking. I’d say she’s a better person, if she in fact rised above bojack behavior ,but she doesn’t she reacted badly. She talks to him like she has to fix him. But it’s not about him really it’s about Diana. Cuz if she actually was concerned she’d try her best to make him feel better not worse. You’ll never change someone by making them feel worse about themselves. He might end up like she says that night but why put more negativity into someone’s mind who hates themselves. Planting good thoughts, not fuck up shit like that , he’s likely to act on. Like come on. The comment here make me scared for society. Clearly not seeing full picture.
One word. Misogyny. The things I read about Diane... Whew. Makes me sad considering that the same people must have watched this incredible and intelligent show and just... didn't take anything away from it.
@@dontperceiveme3025 You can’t use that excuse for everything. Especially, awful behavior by her. It sounds like the opposite problem. Most ppl like her character but have no sympathy for him. I judge someone by they’re actions. Like do you read the comments.It’s actually messed up to judge a woman differently because they’re a woman give them bias. Cuz she’s a woman, she can’t act so bad. You ignored everything I said. Because why she’s a woman. So, she can do no wrong??? Why is her behavior acceptable but bojack not because he’s a man?
“Fetishize your sadness” is just so ugly to say to people going through depression, even small kinds. You can’t help if you’re sad and you can’t help if something that would make other people happy, doesn’t make you happy🤷🏾♀️ Diane was a really good friend to check on him, if Ana hadn’t put in his head he’s SUPPOSED to be happy, this probably would’ve made them closer😔
But later at the Philbert premiere, she does everything in her power to bring Bojack down by constantly reminding him about Penny even though that was probably the only thing in his life that he was genuinely remorseful of. I know Bojack is a narcissist but I don't feel Diane is completely innocent too. These two really do bring out the worst in each other. Diane is much better after she starts medication, and Bojack is better for a short while after rehab, but to say that Bojack is only truly bad person in hw whole show is unfair because Diane is right there with him.
Neither is saying "No one will be there when you kill yourself." Diane was an asshole too. In fact his outburst was because she kept insisting something was wrong when mans was jusy tryna vibe. He was trying to be happy and she came and stuffed his insecurities down his throat.
@@SniperGamingHD1 EXACTLY! Thank you! I honestly feel Diane is overrated and her character was deliberately made this way to reflect the outcome of excesses in personality. She has this compulsion of being excessively Good and virtuous all the time even though realistically, life doesn't function in such virtuosity, everyone does something shitty to move forward in their careers, but with Diane, she seems to be projecting her goodness on people and forcing her activism on them just to feel good about her moral high ground. I understand she's depressed, that's why she gets 100% more likable after she starts therapy, but to say that she's any better than Bojack is just ignorance. She may not be as much of a train wreck as him, but she's close. Both are a product of parental neglect, only with Bojack the neglect and abuse is underpins his every personality trait. The only difference is that one is open to therapy while the other isn't. She gets better after professional help, he gets better after serving jail time which actively liberated him of his guilt, something actual therapy would not have achieved.
When he accused Diane of pretending to be better than everyone and fetishizing her sadness, only he was just projecting. She tried to confront him with uncomfortable truths that came from a loving place, and he deflected her pointing out her flaws.
S3 'There's going to be plenty of people around when I kill myself' S6 'drowning alone in a pool high and drunk' He turned to Diane when he was drunk and high knowing what she meant in this episode
I think it's funny how diane is the one clearly not fetishizing her sadness throughout the series and she is actively trying to do her best and hold herself accountable, while bojack just lets everything go to shit and he's the one who talks about fetishizing (i also realoze that this was intentionded by the writers and is very clear in the subtext so i am not pointing something new out). Both of them have pretty similar issues but in the end it's as simple as the choices you make and not where you come from or whether your serotonin levels are normal.
In a way he is right. *Spoiler* When he attempted to kill himself there were plenty of people in the world, around 7.5 billion people. It’s just none of them personally knew him or cared about his welfare to be *there* for him, or if they did he drove them away with his self-destructive behavior or they had enough of him or they just lost touch. It reminds me of when Diane went to Vietnam and she’s explaining the real reason you would go to Vietnam. There’s that one scene where we see her standing in the middle of several backgrounds. Some of them have her surrounded by people, and yet she looks very isolated from them. She’s out-of-place and alone. There’s no one around _with_ her, _for_ her. She is alienated. 7.5 billion people on Earth, and yet for some the world is a very lonely place.
@@alicechase9290 Maybe it's our job to save ourselves. Some people aren't for or worth saving Bojack, for example. He'll just take you down with him if you lend a hand
After watching the last season I decided to rewatch the whole show from the beggining, it was quite the whiplash to see just how much Bojack grew as a person in these 5 seasons, I could barely even tolerate him in that first episode, now I'm just wondering how did I even got into the show in the first place.
No he actually called her. He left a her a voice mail. He then also has a fake phone call with her in his head, but he also called her for real before that.
Amandaishere.jpg A woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren lake and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring after cutting off the finger. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Since she didn't want to be forgotten, Amanda came back as an image. As a vengace, a photo of Amanda must be shared in order to avoid being killer or haunted by her.
“you’re gonna be so miserable you’ll want to kill yourself, and you’re gonna have nobody left to stop you” has been living in my head rent free for a few years now
How this show manages to be hilarious grim and depressing in all the same moment is one of the things that’ll always leave me awestruck when I watch it
They are really toxic for each other in a way one always expects the other to be "worse" and it makes them feel better about themselves. Like Diane said in "Underground", Bojack is "the biggest asshole" she knows and is "the only thing making sense" to her. And Bojack basically thinks they are the same kinda fucked up. He didn't see Diane working on herself and improving at all. He always expected her to join him in his misery.
And he expects her to like everyone else did. Diana is really the only one (that was as close to him as she was) who sought out to better herself and tried to help him, but like he said, he’s, “selfish, narcissistic, and self destructive,” so he expects her to bow to his destructive behavior and his ego that steps over everyone else. She’s really the only one who has refused to, even with how long she’s stayed in his life
I once had a “Diane” in my life. She was always the one that saw the good in me, even when there were times I couldn’t see it myself. If you have a “Diane” in your life, *keep her close.*
This show really helped me see that just a person wants to be good or suffering doesn't make them any better. I think (although depressing as it is) might help many adolescent to see this way. I used to have this kind of mentality (oh but that person doesn't mean to be bad so i shouldn't be harsh to them) until it backfired. Most of my friends around me prone to have this approach. But this show really seems to effect people in a very good way. I wish i was such a genius to make a show or at least a comic as good as this is.
This series has taught us something that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, no series or movie or any work of fiction has shown before: some toxic people don't realize they're toxic (or they don't want to be), and yet they are just as dangerous and we should stay away from them. I can feel bad for Bojack but I won't let him get off the hook for all the bad things he's done
the two subtitles "I don't fetishise my own sadness" followed by the silent pause I really love for some reason. Like a literal double take ok interpretations
i feel like he sees himself in Diane because they both have struggles with depression but simultaneously resents her because she cares about others and tries to be better.
I don't understand why everyone here is pointing out the 'fetishizing my own sadness' is bojack's way to make himself feel better or to make Diane insecure. I think he just said that cuz deep down he knew that this is what Diane thinks about him. N also because fetishizing his own sadness is what he does n denying it just makes it seem more obvious
I think Bojack fetishizing his sadness is also the reason he never took any accountability for the shitty things he did and the people he traumatised. He constantly lives in this narrative that he's the main character but relatable because of his shit childhood. He does have guilt about the things he has done, but he refuses to get better despite the hunderds of chances he got. He prefers living with the idea that he's the ultimate victim who has made bad choices. He wants to get better not because he wants to make ammends with the people he hurt but to feel better about himself.
Am i the only one who found it funny when bojack said "when" instead of "if", i think that was a part of the joke that he is pretty okay with killing himself as long as he dies with a crowd chanting for him.
Wow, I just realized that this Scene forchadows a view from a halfway down. At least in the sense that when Bojack called Diane in order to make her stop him from killing himself. Man this show has some good writing.
Maybe fetishizing sadness was the wrong term to use but many people who’ve been depressed as long as they remember (Bojack and Diane) that’s all they know. They wonder who they are outside of that. Bojack can’t leave well enough alone when he’s happy because he’s waiting for the other shoe to drop. And in S5 we learn that Diane had been refusing to get herself on meds for a long time. She didn’t even know who she was outside of depression.
It's never late to seek out for help..furthermore if you are already getting help and feel like nothing changes it's part of the process...believe in the process...you can do it!!!!!
Not sure where all the people in the comments are coming from saying too many are hating on Diane. I'm seeing much more hate for Bojack here. Anyway, I really like this scene. It feels like a real fight between friends. Overall Diane is a great friend coming to check on Bojack, and he's being shitty by making her feel bad. I don't think she's completely in the right though. She said some pretty harmful things to him too so both are at fault, not just Bojack. I see this as two incompatible people, both needing different things but not being able to provide what the other needs but they try regardless.
I think in the long run. Spoilers: For the whole show and how it ended, with Bojack literally about to kill himself I think all of Bojack's friends will still support him just not in the same way. They will want to see him succeed and be there for him but they got their own lives now.
@@kita3638 That’s an unhealthy mindset. Trust me, I’ve had therapy for years partly to cope with that. As humans we have to depend on others, however being too dependent is incredibly unhealthy as well
I don’t really think that they grew apart from him because they have lives of their own, but rather he was abusive & they don’t want to deal with it anymore. Most do want him to succeed, but they won’t be there when he does
Later he drives into the pool to see if anyone would actually pull him out. If he had one real friend actually at the party. Fortunately for him, Mr Peanutbutter turned up.
These characters are so well written. I've met people like BoJack and I hated them so much, he felt so real. Especially the "Sure." after they make some asinine statement about you. Lablgwoa it's just so good haha
I love Diane so much. She comes to check on him, she knows him well enough to know to check. She doesn’t say he can’t be happy she checks to see he is. And he IS spinning. She changes the topic when he says he’s fine and makes a joke and he IMMEDIATELY jumps to you aren’t going to make me feel guilty why are you doing new things with your life. He keeps that conversation going and wallows in it himself, and she’s right because he has no friends there, and he says when he kilos himself not if. Maybe some of the stuff she said was a bit extreme but she’s backed into a corner and left almost immediately, I don’t hold pushing back against her.
Notice how he yelled that he would kill himself, but not one person stopped chanting to ask him if he was serious.
@Johnny G cashing I mean that doesn't really apply here, that quote meant that people who really know you and care about you love you, because you matter to them, but they don't like you, because regardless of the sentimental bonds you have with them, they see how bad of a person you are, or at least how much trouble and pain you cause, and how immature you are; the chanting situation is quite the opposite: everybody likes him because for them he's the cool star, but no one loves him, no one actually cares about him
@Johnny G cashing I don't mean to be unpleasant, just felt like giving my opinion
If you truly love somebody, you're gon love them for all their faults too.
@@hughjanis8065 Not all their faults. Some faults are unacceptable. Among those that are unacceptable, there are those you try to help them fix, and those that tell you that the person you love isn't that person. Either way, if someone doesn't want to change for the better, they won't.
@@hughjanis8065 Sure, unconditional love. You can love them while they have faults, doesn’t mean you have to love what they do.
OOF that last line, “there will be plenty of people around when I kill myself” and he says it to Diane. OOF
Who's Diana?
Full myself and Diana?
Wow your right! I just realized the irony of the line. God the writers are so good!!!
@Sammy N spoiler..... At the end of the series bojack ends up drowning himself by accident but, while dying he has a "final" dream, in the dream he eventually realizes what happened and calls diane to help him, only to realize that she is in a different city and he is completely alone. Which is ironic concerning this scene
@@Dolberggames It wasn't really an accident. He was drunk out of his mind, but he told Diane on the phone that if she didn't pick up, he would "go swimming." If you go swimming while wasted..
It breaks me how he says "when." Not "if," *"when"* I kill myself. Oof.
How is there no replies to this yet
Zally there two now
@@ceoofhypixel4626 because nobody's really surprised that he said when.
@@ceoofhypixel4626 Haha, oh man, this kind of blew up!
EFoxKitsune wow did you not even realize? 😂
Made me think of Bojack’s line, “Everybody loves you, but nobody likes you.”
RIGHTTTTT!!!!!
It's bullshit, make your own statement in your life
that line hit so hard
I never forgot that line either
@@falconeshield Care to elaborate?
I was actually surprised that Bojack survived the series
He had to. One of the (if not the) most important themes of the show was how Bojack suffered for never being truly held accountable for his actions and therefore was never forced to make the changes he was not strong enough to make on his own.
Dying would have been "the easy way out" for him and would have not fit the overall narrative here. The logical ending of his arc was that he finally loses everything, is punished for his crimes and gets a chance to become a better person. This show was too smartly written to have Bojack die, that would have been too obvious. Too easy.
Ofc that's just my interpretation.
@@danielschroedinger2090 exactly!
@@randomdude6679 That depends on what keeps you from improving.
It really depends on who you ask
@@danielschroedinger2090 With the number of relapses he had, he was doomed. Realistically, I don't think he should have survived. But it is what it is.
This show is so scary
So many dark vibes 🙃
It was like an emotional horror movie for me. I couldn't even finish it but will never stop singing its praises.
evil spoon Seriously, finish it. One of the episodes from the last season (not going to spoil which one, but people who’ve finished the show, know which one I’m talking about) literally made me sit in silence and think for about 20 minutes, because it was so damn dark and fucked up, but incredibly beautiful at the same time. Just a “wow” moment. I’d say, one of the best TV show episodes ever.
@@elvishendrix676 which episode? The second before last?
@@alexlwx4353 yees
She doesn't fetishize her sadness. He fetishizes her sadness.
They both fetishes their own sadness without knowing.
But Diane always tries to break out of it. Bojack bask in it
Thatone Theotherone
Diane doesn’t fetishize her own sadness. She does not feel comfortable with it like Bojack does. That’s why she goes to therapy, that’s why she stops getting into conflict, and it’s why she decides to stop talking to Bojack.
Bojack was projecting when he said that line. Bojack feels comfortable with his sadness. He feels comfortable using it as an excuse for his behavior and he doesn’t actively try to change it. It’s what he knows
Knife Cat Diane fetishizes her sadness too, but she finally realizes it when she’s writing her book and she’s sad that all the shitty things that have happened to her might not amount to anything - they’re just shitty things that have happened to her. She realizes it, and tries to be better, which is something Bojack never does.
@@umiuniverse_
That's not really fetishizing sadness. Fetishizing sadness means you feel comfortable in it and don't want to leave it. That was never the case for Diane. Her holding onto those thoughts and feelings for her book wasn't a case of her fetishizing her sadness. The only reason she held onto it is for the chance that maybe if she could somehow turn all of the shitty moments in her life into a work of art it may help people get through their shitty moments. She explains this very concept to Princess Carolyn. When Diane realized that she couldn't do it, she had no reason to hold onto it. Much like how she realized that she didn't have to hold on to Bojack in order for her experiences with him to matter.
Fetishizing sadness isn't the same as just being depressed. Evidence that Bojack fetishizes his sadness is when he calls Diane saying he's drunk and gonna go swimming and if she doesn't come save him that means she didn't really care. He's using his sadness as the excuse to call Diane, instead of just doing it. Sadness for Bojack is a tool he uses to get others to communicate with him. Bojack lives and breathes within his sadness which is why he needed to go to therapy. Diane was never in that state.
Now i realize Bojack was extremelly shitty to diane, despite him mistreating her in the long run in this spesific moment he used all her insecuirities against her, just to make him feel good about suposedly beign "happy"
Yeah I rewatched the scene like three times and ALL of the escalation was on Bojack‘s part. Homegirl really just came to check on him.
Bojack was extremely shitty to everyone. They both provoke eachother. Reason one why they should never be together Romantically.
lmao I understood what u said but damn were u drunk when u typed this
Nah they both just stepped on each other's toes. She checked in on Bojack bc she knows getting what he thinks he wanted is dangerous for him, and he in return confronted her about her new approach to life, which he knew wasn't right for her. Both took offense so it got into a petty fight, that's all. They are rly alike in a lot of ways. I mean Diane is the better person, no doubt, but still. Plus it isn't like she never goes a few steps too far with him.
Bojack liked people, but he was very cruel in the things he said to them. PC heard horrible things, Todd was treated like shit...
Looking back at this scene, it obvious how Diane and Bojack just enabled each other's depressive spirals. They could understand each other's depression, but understanding doesnt mean that their interactions were good for their trauma. Even if PB couldnt understand Diane, he was still miles better than Bojack in terms of keeping her grounded.
Oof. I must disagree. I don't think either of them were good for Diane.
@@princesseuphemia1007 he said better not good
I don't think PB was good for her, but still, at least he TRIED. He was self-centered, and he didn't understand her, but he did genuinely want her to be happy.
PB tried to make her happy but he had no interest in actually getting to know her properly. How many times did she say she liked privacy and hates a lot of attention? How many times did she make it clear that she hates the grand gestures he does? But he never listened and just did whatever he decided should make her happy anyway. He even got angry with her if she didn't "appreciate" the things he did enough. And look at the actual gestures themselves. Bojack stole the D from the Hollywood sign as a gesture of his affection for Diane, but didn't remember doing it. So PB took the credit even though he had nothing to do with it. The "library" he built for her was just filled with fake books. The gestures seem sweet on the surface, but they're all essentially hollow and only there because he wants attention and praise. He isn't as well intentioned and kind as he tries to pretend he is. I mean, are we forgetting he even cheated on his new girlfriend with Diane? He's honestly just like Bojack in so many ways. He's just as selfish, manipulative and judgmental. But unlike Bojack who tries to get love and support from others through pity and self destruction, he tries to get it through faux kindness, friendliness and performative generosity. He's the toxic positivity to Bojack's catastrophizing. I'd say Bojack makes Diane feel like she's not alone in her depression and self loathing which can be good, just like PB made her feel genuinely cared for and like someone actually wants her to be happy. But neither of these things made her feel truly loved and SEEN. If you want to talk about keeping her grounded, Guy was the one who probably does that best. He loves her no matter what, supports her and has always understood and accepted her for who she is. I'm so glad she got away from that whole toxic mess in L.A. If she hadn't, it would have destroyed her.
@@daylightbright7675 damn well told
This show has no business being as good as it is.
How tf is a cartoon about an alcoholic horse the most intelligently written piece of TV drama I have ever seen?
Great art can come from anywhere, and animation gives people the ability to literally build a premise, world, and characters from the ground-up.
That, and I think the slapstick and anthropomorphized animals are a trick to disarm people when the funny, wisecracking alcoholic horse almost rapes a minor. The whiplash of that last sentence is basically the MO of the show.
art comes from the weirdest of places, my friend
@@Thobeian he wasn’t in right, but she wasn’t a minor. She was 17, the legal age in that state
@@witchypoo7353 Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean she still isn't a minor. A 17 yearold would not be tried as an adult in court...
@@durnel2001 depends on the state I think. & I’m not saying that I think it’s right. Just that in New Mexico & Texas the age of consent is 17.
“Listen to that chanting Diane. The chanting don’t lie.” That. That is why I struggle to feel sorry for him in the end. He always trusted the crowd appeal over everything else. He chased the sympathy interviews so hard that he pushed away Princess. The ONE person who would have always been in his corner. It’s great writing because that’s a realistic portrayal of a character flaw. Something so ingrained in him that throughout the whole series he never even considered it was a problem.
That's so true. All the way till the very end. He just HAD to go in for that second interview
Yeah it was kinda installed in him by his mom. Like you remember that one flashback where he was a kid and crying under the table and his mom said “go sing the lollipop song” and something like go please them and don’t stop dancing
The free churro episode sorta contextualised it with him saying he always believed loving someone was being bad then pulling a grand act like they do in movies but yeah it’s a problem he never truly recognised
@@julianne8218 Just about to say this. His mom taught him from a young age that pleasing crowds is the only worth he has
"don't stop dancing" right? :/ Beatrice instilled it in him and he instilled it into Sarah Lynn
The saddest part to me is that Bojack doesn't even deny that he would kill himself after. Normally someone might've said "I won't kill myself!" or "There'll be plenty of people around *IF* I kill myself". That difference between "If" and "When" hurts so much.
diane saying it's exhausting to care is so real.
Thats the difference between principles and pretensions
It is, it really is.
Sometimes, it actually can be.
this hits different after knowing how the show ends...
Life's a bitch, and then you....keep on living.
The difference between Diane and Bojack is that Diane (despite experiencing depression) identifies her flaws and tries her hardest to always make the right decisions for herself; she doesn’t like to self sabotage and let herself spiral down into fuck ups. Bojack is the complete opposite because he thinks him feeling shitty and sorry for himself is justified. The difference between Diane and Bojack is that Bojack is the one who fetishizes his own sadness.
Diane did fetishize her sadness in a way, though. She thought it gave her an "edge" as a writer, which led her to pick a memoir as a writing project despite not being able to make any sense of her trauma, and avoid the young adult novel that she actually wanted to write. She even tried to cold turkey her antidepressants because of that. Further, I think what we're calling "fetishization" is a coping mechanism that's pretty natural to fall into, but is not particularly healthy. Bojack calls it that because he's lashing out, but even if it's unhealthy, I don't think that framing is fair.
@@theoriginalrandomman
Well Bojack labels it as “fetishizing” because that’s what Ana labels it as when Bojack originally feels indifferent to the Oscar. It shows how he’s projecting his insecurities. I don’t even think Bojack really knows if he’s properly using the word, he just knew it would bother Diane.
(SPOILERS FOR BOJACK HORSEMAN)
season 3 bojack: there's going to be plenty of people around when i kill myself!
season 6 bojack: (alone dying in the pool)
no one was there to stop him, just like diane said.
i know bojack's alive but I DON'T CARE IT STILL HURTS
I think that was such a good choice on the creators' part tho. People can be there for you, support you, help you through. But nobody can "save" you. You need to do that yourself. You need to take responsibility. It's not right to put the responsibility for your life on someone else. In a way, you need to save yourself. And in the end, that's what BoJack did...
(Just a sidenote I need to put in here: the fact that in the end it's your battle _does not mean_ you have to do it all alone. It doesn't even mean that you should. When it comes to things like depression, you simply cannot just force your brain to start making the chemicals right, you can't solve that with your own will and effort. Sometimes the way you can help yourself is to reach out to professional help.. absolutely no shame in that. If anything, it's a mark of strength and courage, *not* weakness or inability.)
@@efoxkitsune9493 that was just great writing. it still hurts thinking that bojack was just alone and in the end, when he's in prison, he's not gonna ask for diane's help. he has to save himself. literally the only people who are there for him are mr. peanutbutter and todd. that's it really.
@@sidneywade2454 Hmmm, I don't really think so...? I mean yes, Diane needs to kind of let him go and have her own life, because he was just too much of a toxic presence in her life, and as much as she loves him, she needs to move on. Which is totally fair and probably for the best. But PC is gonna stay (hopefully) a part of his life as well... only this time only as a friend, and not an agent. She's finally learning to separate her personal and professional life. And she will also always love him. Just this time maybe from a slightly bigger distance... she won't get roped into his drama, but she's still there to support him. I think she is just setting some healthy boundaries.
And yes, everyone will ultimately move on with their lives. Whether together or away from each other, we can't really tell. But that's just what happens in life... :) It doesn't mean they're abandoning him or anything. It's healthy...
This show did it so well.
@@efoxkitsune9493 well, yeah, okay, princess carolyn is probably gonna stay with bojack as a friend. actually, now that i think about it, the only person who pushed bojack away is diane...
dang it, this is too depressing. i gotta watch some death note.
@@sidneywade2454 Hahaha. Fair enough!
(Death Note is so good btw..)
“I heard about you being nominated for an Oscar and I wanted to check up on you.”
Diane has got to be one of the most thoughtful friends ever, and Bojack basically makes her feel like shit for most of the show.
When BJ disappeared, she's the only one who keeps trying to contact him.
Then why do some people chastise her?
@@ChelseaPariellaMisogyny is largely part of it
@@butdoicaretho Yeah but she also cheated with her ex twice after promising his new girlfriend she didn't have to worry and still refused to get back with him just ruining a relationship for nothing😊
@@galaxywanderer5508at the end of the day it was also PB's fault plus that girl wasn't the best for him either. Like they could just break up but they went into an exhaustive search to find the perfect guy she could cheat on him that hurt and when she finally found it, she dumped PB over him like it was nothing.
Everything else aside, all the conversations in this show feel so real. The way they interrupt and talk over each other is so realistic.
Yeah
I keep returning to this show because the characters are cartoons, but the toxicity between them isn’t.
The toxicity between them isn't cartoons?
@@noatiendoboludos the toxicity is more realistic than the average cartoon could manage ^
This isn’t toxicity, it’s just what happens as you get older this is reality. Not every relationship in your life is going to be all sunshine and rainbows sometimes there are going to be rough patches and that’s when you need to decide for yourself if your mature enough to get through them or just give up on the connection entirely.
Sierra- 024 What are you talking about? 😂😂 Bojack is a narcissist and all of his relationships are toxic. Denying this shits on the core point of the show. And if your relationships look like this and you think that’s normal, maybe you ARE the Bojack in your life.
@@ray-0249 uhm NO if your relationships are anything remotely like this then you need to reevaluate not only yourself but the relationship that you choose to keep with people. Adult relationships aren't supposed to be this toxic.
Isn’t the whole point of the show that Bojack fetishizes himself and his sadness, as he sabotages all of his relationships?
And then Todd says that one monologue and people commit to several seasons that will never meet that standard.
yeah, Bojack projects A lot of stuff onto other people. He projects so hard he could work in an IMAX theater.
@@Thobeian ooof, I laughed way too hard at that lol it’s so sad but so funny
my favorite detail is when he says "there's gonna be plenty of people around when i kill myself" and then he has that look on his face - a brief moment of self awareness and realization. it's implied that none of these people care about him; he's just a piece of entertainment to them, a show. they're gonna be around when he kills himself because it's a celebrity scandal, not because they care enough to try and stop him
2:08 literally just the type of feeling Bojack is talking about when he says "everyone loves u, but nobody likes u, and that's the loneliest feeling in the world". He has people at his house to party and they enjoy being around him, but really none of them care about him
Reminds me something Robin Williams said once. Unfortunately he did leave us too soon.
yep!
Oh man
I really thought Bojack was gonna end with him taking his life into the pool.
But as Todd says "everything continues with or without you"
I think that if the Show had ended with Bojack killing himself in the pool the point of the whole Show would have been lost. I think the point is that you have the responsibility of your acts, you are the one who decides. Despite your trauma, despite your depression, despite feeling bad about yourself. All of that doesn't justify your actions, YOU are the one that is damaging people, you are the one being mean, you are the one neglecting every relationship you have. That is why you are the one that has to take this big step of ending that toxic behaviours, it's in your hands to start being a better person, to feel a little better day after day, in your hands is the chance to admit that you are not okay and that you want to start feeling okay. But the biggest issue is recognise that you have a problem, of course
2:10 not only does his voice crack, but Diane say 'nobody will be there to _stop_ you from killing yourself' and he's saying 'plenty of people will be there _when i do_ kill myself.' Those are 2 very different things
Not to mention, she doesn’t even say that he will kill himself, she just say, “you’ll want to kill yourself and there’ll be nobody left to stop you,” but he says, “when I kill myself,” meaning that it’ll absolutely happen, and _he’ll go through with it when it happens…_ Again, two very different things.
I don’t get how people can hate Diane more than Bojack, he quite literally wants to kill himself out of spite, so Diane has to live with overwhelming guilt for the rest of her life. Because she fell out with an unstable man.
Honestly, the reasons (or lack thereof) that people (men) hate diane more than Bojack always read as huge red flags to me. They call her hypocritical, yet condone Bojack doing things and acting in ways they criticize her for. Their real issue is so obvious.
@@renee000 exactly
@@renee000 Yet isn’t that what you’re doing with bojack lmao. Lol it’s literally the opposite ppl support Diana say her behaviors don’t make her terrible person. They see him as huge villain but shows not about that . It’s shows how things aren’t black and white as you make them to be. I find it big red flag that they don’t see how Diana is like mirror of bojack. I find it very disturbing that ppl aren’t upset at her for telling him he’s going to kill himself alone and have no one . Simply because he said we’re the same. She can’t handle being told truth but she judges others so hard expects them to just take it. But don’t criticize her ever. She puts fears in his head and can’t let him enjoy the night because why? How does that help him? Instead of just supporting him. She’s projecting her fear on to him, someone she knows isn’t stable. She handled herself very wrong. That’s not how you talk to a suicidal person. Very immature thinking. I’d say she’s a better person, if she in fact rised above bojack behavior ,but she doesn’t she reacted badly. She talks to him like she has to fix him. But it’s not about him really it’s about Diana. Cuz if she actually was concerned she’d try her best to make him feel better not worse. You’ll never change someone by making them feel worse about themselves. He might end up like she says that night but why put more negativity into someone’s mind who hates themselves. Planting good thoughts, not fuck up shit like that , he’s likely to act on. Like come on. The comment here make me scared for society. Clearly not seeing full picture.
One word. Misogyny. The things I read about Diane... Whew. Makes me sad considering that the same people must have watched this incredible and intelligent show and just... didn't take anything away from it.
@@dontperceiveme3025 You can’t use that excuse for everything. Especially, awful behavior by her. It sounds like the opposite problem. Most ppl like her character but have no sympathy for him. I judge someone by they’re actions. Like do you read the comments.It’s actually messed up to judge a woman differently because they’re a woman give them bias. Cuz she’s a woman, she can’t act so bad. You ignored everything I said. Because why she’s a woman. So, she can do no wrong??? Why is her behavior acceptable but bojack not because he’s a man?
“Fetishize your sadness” is just so ugly to say to people going through depression, even small kinds. You can’t help if you’re sad and you can’t help if something that would make other people happy, doesn’t make you happy🤷🏾♀️
Diane was a really good friend to check on him, if Ana hadn’t put in his head he’s SUPPOSED to be happy, this probably would’ve made them closer😔
Yeah but bojack isn't JUST depressed. He's a self sabotaging narcissist. She is right.
But later at the Philbert premiere, she does everything in her power to bring Bojack down by constantly reminding him about Penny even though that was probably the only thing in his life that he was genuinely remorseful of. I know Bojack is a narcissist but I don't feel Diane is completely innocent too. These two really do bring out the worst in each other. Diane is much better after she starts medication, and Bojack is better for a short while after rehab, but to say that Bojack is only truly bad person in hw whole show is unfair because Diane is right there with him.
Neither is saying "No one will be there when you kill yourself." Diane was an asshole too. In fact his outburst was because she kept insisting something was wrong when mans was jusy tryna vibe. He was trying to be happy and she came and stuffed his insecurities down his throat.
@@SniperGamingHD1 EXACTLY! Thank you! I honestly feel Diane is overrated and her character was deliberately made this way to reflect the outcome of excesses in personality. She has this compulsion of being excessively Good and virtuous all the time even though realistically, life doesn't function in such virtuosity, everyone does something shitty to move forward in their careers, but with Diane, she seems to be projecting her goodness on people and forcing her activism on them just to feel good about her moral high ground. I understand she's depressed, that's why she gets 100% more likable after she starts therapy, but to say that she's any better than Bojack is just ignorance. She may not be as much of a train wreck as him, but she's close. Both are a product of parental neglect, only with Bojack the neglect and abuse is underpins his every personality trait. The only difference is that one is open to therapy while the other isn't. She gets better after professional help, he gets better after serving jail time which actively liberated him of his guilt, something actual therapy would not have achieved.
@@SniperGamingHD1 Diane had every right to react that way
When he accused Diane of pretending to be better than everyone and fetishizing her sadness, only he was just projecting. She tried to confront him with uncomfortable truths that came from a loving place, and he deflected her pointing out her flaws.
Your last sentence Bojack... it didn't age well
Like, errr my god. It's not AgEiNg WeLl
S3 'There's going to be plenty of people around when I kill myself'
S6 'drowning alone in a pool high and drunk'
He turned to Diane when he was drunk and high knowing what she meant in this episode
Use a spoiler alert like everyone else! Geez
He yelled that so loud but no one stopped the music to asked if he was serious or not. That's so sad
u know the music by any chance?
That aye-aye snorting coke off of his one long finger is a super underrated gag
What a well scripted show
alison brie's delivery of her lines were phenomenal in this scene
I think it's funny how diane is the one clearly not fetishizing her sadness throughout the series and she is actively trying to do her best and hold herself accountable, while bojack just lets everything go to shit and he's the one who talks about fetishizing (i also realoze that this was intentionded by the writers and is very clear in the subtext so i am not pointing something new out). Both of them have pretty similar issues but in the end it's as simple as the choices you make and not where you come from or whether your serotonin levels are normal.
In a way he is right.
*Spoiler*
When he attempted to kill himself there were plenty of people in the world, around 7.5 billion people. It’s just none of them personally knew him or cared about his welfare to be *there* for him, or if they did he drove them away with his self-destructive behavior or they had enough of him or they just lost touch.
It reminds me of when Diane went to Vietnam and she’s explaining the real reason you would go to Vietnam. There’s that one scene where we see her standing in the middle of several backgrounds. Some of them have her surrounded by people, and yet she looks very isolated from them. She’s out-of-place and alone. There’s no one around _with_ her, _for_ her. She is alienated.
7.5 billion people on Earth, and yet for some the world is a very lonely place.
Maybe it's our job to save one another
@@alicechase9290 Maybe it's our job to save ourselves. Some people aren't for or worth saving
Bojack, for example. He'll just take you down with him if you lend a hand
@@Anhtique just like Ana spatsomdthingorother said
@@Anhtique they were quoting diane
After watching the last season I decided to rewatch the whole show from the beggining, it was quite the whiplash to see just how much Bojack grew as a person in these 5 seasons, I could barely even tolerate him in that first episode, now I'm just wondering how did I even got into the show in the first place.
The Hummingbird stealing the Elephant's drink and the Elephant getting mad in the background. I love the background storytelling in this show
“No ones going to be around when you kill yourself”
And then Bojack calls Diane (thinks that he does) when he does attempt to kill himself.
No he actually called her. He left a her a voice mail. He then also has a fake phone call with her in his head, but he also called her for real before that.
Amandaishere.jpg
A woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren lake and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring after cutting off the finger. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Since she didn't want to be forgotten, Amanda came back as an image. As a vengace, a photo of Amanda must be shared in order to avoid being killer or haunted by her.
“you’re gonna be so miserable you’ll want to kill yourself, and you’re gonna have nobody left to stop you”
has been living in my head rent free for a few years now
Watching this show makes me feel less alone. I’ve seen it five times now, it saved me
How this show manages to be hilarious grim and depressing in all the same moment is one of the things that’ll always leave me awestruck when I watch it
Little did Bojack know, He would almost die alone.
I couldn't finish this show, it felt too real lmfao
aww i'm sorry;( hope you're okay
it was very relatable for me too but i managed
yeah feel u
They are really toxic for each other in a way one always expects the other to be "worse" and it makes them feel better about themselves. Like Diane said in "Underground", Bojack is "the biggest asshole" she knows and is "the only thing making sense" to her. And Bojack basically thinks they are the same kinda fucked up. He didn't see Diane working on herself and improving at all. He always expected her to join him in his misery.
And he expects her to like everyone else did. Diana is really the only one (that was as close to him as she was) who sought out to better herself and tried to help him, but like he said, he’s, “selfish, narcissistic, and self destructive,” so he expects her to bow to his destructive behavior and his ego that steps over everyone else. She’s really the only one who has refused to, even with how long she’s stayed in his life
Huh no Bojack is only toxic dudes
I once had a “Diane” in my life. She was always the one that saw the good in me, even when there were times I couldn’t see it myself. If you have a “Diane” in your life, *keep her close.*
Yeah you’re right
That "Diane" might deserve better like the one in the show. I learned the hard way.
The aye aye was doing a line off his finger that’s top tier attention to detail
2:11 Most ironic line in the entire series. He attempted suicide, and nobody was there.
This show really helped me see that just a person wants to be good or suffering doesn't make them any better. I think (although depressing as it is) might help many adolescent to see this way. I used to have this kind of mentality (oh but that person doesn't mean to be bad so i shouldn't be harsh to them) until it backfired. Most of my friends around me prone to have this approach. But this show really seems to effect people in a very good way. I wish i was such a genius to make a show or at least a comic as good as this is.
This series has taught us something that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, no series or movie or any work of fiction has shown before: some toxic people don't realize they're toxic (or they don't want to be), and yet they are just as dangerous and we should stay away from them. I can feel bad for Bojack but I won't let him get off the hook for all the bad things he's done
Damn, they really giving out these psychology degrees nowadays
What do u mean
Lmaoo
@@user-pi3hd2bt3f I meant that there were a lot of people in the replies analyzing stuff that they really have no idea about lol
@@nanayawquarshie1711 no one claimed shit about being smart with psychology people are just giving their own analysis and opinion of the show
Sorry that your brain isn't functional enough to make observations about a TV show
the two subtitles
"I don't fetishise my own sadness"
followed by the silent pause I really love for some reason. Like a literal double take ok interpretations
2:09 the irony. He was talking sht about Diane, yet in what could've been his last moments that one person he called to save him was Diane.
1:56 that’s exactly what happened
i feel like he sees himself in Diane because they both have struggles with depression but simultaneously resents her because she cares about others and tries to be better.
This show reads like a fucking Shakespearean sonnet and I love how much it makes me cry
Despite Bojack saying it, "don't fetishize your own sadness" is great life advice.
Bojack didn’t say it, Ana did, he just parroted it
The most suicidal character outlives his own series lol.
I completely understand being miserable after an achievement or a good time. I hate New Years Eve
I don't understand why everyone here is pointing out the 'fetishizing my own sadness' is bojack's way to make himself feel better or to make Diane insecure. I think he just said that cuz deep down he knew that this is what Diane thinks about him. N also because fetishizing his own sadness is what he does n denying it just makes it seem more obvious
too much judging ruin every relationships
The irony... 😔
I think Bojack fetishizing his sadness is also the reason he never took any accountability for the shitty things he did and the people he traumatised. He constantly lives in this narrative that he's the main character but relatable because of his shit childhood. He does have guilt about the things he has done, but he refuses to get better despite the hunderds of chances he got. He prefers living with the idea that he's the ultimate victim who has made bad choices. He wants to get better not because he wants to make ammends with the people he hurt but to feel better about himself.
Am i the only one who found it funny when bojack said "when" instead of "if", i think that was a part of the joke that he is pretty okay with killing himself as long as he dies with a crowd chanting for him.
"I don't fetishize my own sadness"
"I don't fetishize my own sadness"
Narrator: They did.
Ah I love the details in this....Bojacks face for a short time after Dianes "You don't know anything about me".
Wow, I just realized that this Scene forchadows a view from a halfway down.
At least in the sense that when Bojack called Diane in order to make her stop him from killing himself.
Man this show has some good writing.
At the end he literally made a specific reference to suicide and that’s what’s sad
Bojack reminds me of the guy who introduced this show to me half a year ago. I feel sorry for and am annoyed by both of them.
Maybe fetishizing sadness was the wrong term to use but many people who’ve been depressed as long as they remember (Bojack and Diane) that’s all they know. They wonder who they are outside of that. Bojack can’t leave well enough alone when he’s happy because he’s waiting for the other shoe to drop. And in S5 we learn that Diane had been refusing to get herself on meds for a long time. She didn’t even know who she was outside of depression.
"There is gonna be plenty of people around when I kill myself."
And he says that he doesn't fetishize his own sadness.
uuuh, i was never cool
I really really like how they both know each other so well.
It’s weird how they’re both kinda right, in some ways.
Like dian says they are both very similar and because of that they bring out the worst in each other.
i love the way he says when and not if, and doesn’t seem to notice for a few seconds. i love more that diane was right.
The flies and the chili cheese fountain is really disturbing when you think about it lmao
Bojack genuinely made me depressed for no reason
i m so tired of this life, i cant take it anymore, i just feel angry and sad all the time
It's never late to seek out for help..furthermore if you are already getting help and feel like nothing changes it's part of the process...believe in the process...you can do it!!!!!
@@giannispsillias7964 yes exactly!
The look he made when he realizes what he just said at the end-
Not sure where all the people in the comments are coming from saying too many are hating on Diane. I'm seeing much more hate for Bojack here. Anyway, I really like this scene. It feels like a real fight between friends. Overall Diane is a great friend coming to check on Bojack, and he's being shitty by making her feel bad. I don't think she's completely in the right though. She said some pretty harmful things to him too so both are at fault, not just Bojack. I see this as two incompatible people, both needing different things but not being able to provide what the other needs but they try regardless.
This show, this character. Why does it hit home so close for me
because of this quote (i don't fetishized my own sadness) my cousin who's always a drama king suddenly became a no-nonsense guy 😂
I think in the long run.
Spoilers:
For the whole show and how it ended, with Bojack literally about to kill himself I think all of Bojack's friends will still support him just not in the same way. They will want to see him succeed and be there for him but they got their own lives now.
In the end you always have yourself,you just can't depend on others no matter how close you are
@@kita3638 That’s an unhealthy mindset. Trust me, I’ve had therapy for years partly to cope with that. As humans we have to depend on others, however being too dependent is incredibly unhealthy as well
I don’t really think that they grew apart from him because they have lives of their own, but rather he was abusive & they don’t want to deal with it anymore. Most do want him to succeed, but they won’t be there when he does
@@kita3638 dude please don't spread that kind of negativity, it hurts people
@@s.g.7572 I literally don't care lmao
That last ten seconds was like... 👁👄👁
there’s a looooot of projecting happening in this scene
How do they do it? It,s funny and sad at the same time.
2:15 the fact he said "when" instead of "if" its crazy
Fetishizing your sadness is basically being an emotional masochist, which is a very real thing and requires an incredibly disturbed mindset.
Later he drives into the pool to see if anyone would actually pull him out. If he had one real friend actually at the party. Fortunately for him, Mr Peanutbutter turned up.
“There’s gonna be plenty of people around when I kill myself” the fucking foreshadowing that this series does man.
He really knows how to gaslight people lmao
I felt like I was being gaslit through the screen tbh
These characters are so well written. I've met people like BoJack and I hated them so much, he felt so real. Especially the "Sure." after they make some asinine statement about you. Lablgwoa it's just so good haha
How can a talking horse be so relatable?
I relate to Diane on so many levels... it's concerning honestly lmao. Bojack is my favorite show
Same! The more I revisit the more I find things I resonate with. Especially “I don’t know maybe caring about shit got old.”
The foreshadowing oh my god
One of my favorite scenes in the show
i cannot believe the foreshadowing came from SEASON 3
I love the foreshadowing, it's so clever. In every instance BoJack tried to kill himself, there was no one there for him
Diane is harsh here but what she said was accurate and Bojack totally had it coming
"I was never cool-" felt that
I really want to rewatch this series but i wanna do it with someone that hasn't watched it
Considering the finale, its ironical!
I love Diane so much. She comes to check on him, she knows him well enough to know to check. She doesn’t say he can’t be happy she checks to see he is. And he IS spinning. She changes the topic when he says he’s fine and makes a joke and he IMMEDIATELY jumps to you aren’t going to make me feel guilty why are you doing new things with your life. He keeps that conversation going and wallows in it himself, and she’s right because he has no friends there, and he says when he kilos himself not if. Maybe some of the stuff she said was a bit extreme but she’s backed into a corner and left almost immediately, I don’t hold pushing back against her.
my favorite TV show