He said what about Urumi Swordmen?! | TheViper reacts to Hera's Top5 Worst Unique Units
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2024
- Watch the original video @HeraAgeofEmpires2 : • Top 5 Worst Unique Uni...
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This guy gets 1 world record and thinks he knows everything about urumi swordsmen
Well, do YOU have any world records in quikwols? no! quikwol record holders cannot lie. quikwols = truthsayers!
get sub 1.50 and show him who is boss
pin of shame :D
the beef is back?!?!
this guy won a few recent tournaments against viper and says this.
Hera talks a lot for someone with no world records on the quickwall scenario 😁
Shots fired 9
A Hera tier list with Viper commentary. This needs to be a new genre
Check and balance
Viper: "I think Dravidians are good"
Hera: "I think Dravidians suck"
If only there was a way to put 2 players thoughts on a civ to the test...
Hera picks dravidians alot in tournaments too oof
The passion with which Hera hates the Hussite wagon, I need that in my life.
Or maybe just don't have any Hussite Wagons? 🤣🤣
Why not just have pure hatred in your life for everything?
@@husainjam It's about the passion for the hatred specifically.
@@husainjam He's commenting on the WORST Units.
Grow a BRAIN. 🤪🤪
sounds like a meme like "find a girl who hates [your enemies] like TheViper hates [hussite wagons]"
How about this for elephants: instead of getting converted by the monk and switching sides, instead the elephant unit turns into a Gaia elephant that randomly aggros the closest nearby unit (of either side), thus representing the scenario in historical battles where elephants went beserk and did damage to whatever military unit happened to be close by.
This is an GREAT idea !!
nice idea, but its quite unGAMElistic
Urumi shreds everything en-masse in my experience. Especially in closed maps where you can go straight UU, Urumi feel super strong.
Yeah no kidding especially with those build time
yeah their offense is super strong, but remember that pros rarely have a scenario of mass infantry UU vs mass infantry UU patrolling into each other
I once tried to counter Urumis with Jaguar Warriors. I wasn't entertained by the result.
Urumi is definitely a nice one to have in CBA where it's all mass UU vs UU
@@fishcake4473 It isn't only against infantry though, it is all melee units. They win cost effectively, almost even pop-effectively, against paladins. The huge problems are, whilst they are fast for infantry, smaller numbers can get killed by cav easily, and as soon as ranged units are involved and you can't swarm them, by either having to fight in an awkward place or having a meatshield in front, their fragility counteracts all their applicability. As soon as they get even more speed, more hp or more pierce armour, they should technically be almost unstoppable though. I think the devs really got themselves a tough task with Urumis.
It's one of the most broken units in some situations, especially when not expected, and one of the worst in many, especially when your opponent knows what's happening.
I spent some time fiddling with the Hussite Wagon after the last video. The normal Hussite Wagon does the same DPS against normal units as a Hand Cannoneer, so you're basically paying for the extra HP, kinda like a Genitour. Seems clear the main purpose is to tank, not to deal damage.
I think they're meant to be used in small numbers, like 1-3 per squad of archers. You basically dance around the hussite wagon and use it to soak up arrowfire like a giant pincushion. In larger fights, you don't want a solid wall, you actually want a loose array so they block arrows from multiple directions and don't die to siege too hard.
It's hard to test them effectively in the editor because the AI is terrible at properly positioning archers like in a real engagement and keeps attacking the wagons directly, but they can make a massive difference. Just now I had 30 Teuton crossbows(without thumb ring!) and 3 hussite wagons(don't have the DLC for bohemians) beat 50 vietnamese xbows in a straight fight.
I agree with everything you said except for the "they don't die to siege too hard". They kinda do, IMHO. I was about to say "it depends what Too Hard means for you" but I changed my mind for some reason 11
@@germanpenn his point was to spread them out so that siege doesn't counter them as hard when they are all in the same place I think
Yeah, they’re a support unit, like the monk or the centurion, but unlike those two, the wagon probably can’t win the game alone, which I would say warrants a change to the monk and the cent, rather than the wagon..
Upon seeing these 2 vids, I decided to test the HW myself as well. I am sure I'm gonna fail spectacularly but I have a thing for trying to make hated units work.
I remember when you could bum rush a 13 minute castle time on Bohemians and overrun your opponents with HW before they knew what hit them. It was like a free couple hundred elo for arena players. Still think the HW and monastery discount nerfs were low key unwarranted
I beat a guys cavaliers with Urumi Swordsmen with equal res or less. With them like Viper said it's really important to have a certain mass - they have hardcore snowball potential due to the burst damage. If you instantly kill 1/3 of enemy units all of those just do nothing. You then either overwhelm with the numbers advantage or you can retreat after a successful trade. Like Viper also said - it's hard to get there. You can probably play the castle age version with success, too, if you mass enough of them or raid nicely with single units - but you will want the elite / post imp version for more burst dmg and ignoring armor. The fact that they can beat its supposed hardcounters like Teutonic Knights, Jaguar Warrior and Samurai as well as cavarly shows they are a decent unit.
Simply situational - use them smart
Also - you can compare them to the Karambit Warrior due to them being weaker in lower numbers - how come they don't make the list then? Karambits suck much more in low numbers! Urumi at least can work with the burst dmg to find value in all kind of situations
The historical Hussite Wagons were used to stop cavalry charges by making "instant fortifications" as well as to protect arbalesters and hand-canonniers.
I think that they should be deployable like the trebuchet and in that form, they would get either melee armour, or anti-cavalry armour or loose the siege class and gain the building class.
They wouldn't be that useful against siege but would be useful against cav to protect the ranged units (I would love to see them being used in box formation to make the fortifications) and to close choke points.
i womnder if it would be viable to have them deal damage to melee units that attack them. This might even be as low as ~5 damage (closer to 1 damage once armour is taken into account), and then tune the balance over a couple of patches by adding/tweaking bonus damage against cav.
@@radred609, I think increase armour would make more sense.
Basically Siege Tanks
@@unimportantcommenter4356, exept it wouldn't get a good damage on it's own.
I was thinking more like moving palissades.
What if instead of the 25% damage reduction they currently have, what if they are changed to be more like rams where they have a height far above their sprite to soak up projectiles that were otherwise going behind them?
UU value is all about how they work with the rest of the civ, not the unit itself. I think the conversation about them is missing this focus.
The reason persian eles suck (and should be #1 on this list) is less about counters as the fact that persian compositions already have cavalry units with the same weaknesses. Thus, mixing them in both takes away from army mobility and does nothing to address what knights or camels die to.
Hussite wagons suck for similar reasons; units that counter war wagons also counter the ranged units they supposedly buff. I love the concept of war wagons but I think it would be neat if they became an expensive trash unit, similar to magyar hussars - reflecting their heritage as a makeshift defensive unit, with nerfs to keep it balanced once it loses its gold cost. suddenly, it would have a useful role in a civ reliant on gold for most of its other core units.
pog video
it just would've been nice if Hera's voice was boosted a bit so I don't constantly have to turn volume up and down depending on who's talking 11
I realize that in hindsight the volume wasn't the best, will try to make it better in the future
The problem of Urumi is 0 pierce armor, so any range even skirms kills them.
This
The funniest part for me: even a streamer/youtuber like TheViper has no intention of paying for watching UA-cam without ads :p
Hera makes a clickbait list video.
Viper plunges to lower depths and makes the king of all trash content: A reaction video. 11
love both of these dudes
in this case I think a list + reaction kinda cancels the trashyness and becomes a sort-of discussion between two top players
@@user-sl6gn1ss8p nah its still mega click bait, fucking cringe
Unit : is not an arbelester
Hera : This unit is useless.
Such a 2D brain.
I can't argue with the decisions to tell the truth. I think a nice buff for the Hussite Wagon would be if units are in a certain area of them they get an armor buff to melee and ranged it would negate being able to micro round them an maybe make them useful in more situations.
They should give the effect of hussite wagons to stone walls, but only when they are your walls. Not only would be realistic, it would make them far more worth of doing, and improve the meta in games like Arena
What about giving War Elephants a charge? A brief speed boost once they are near the enemy, to close the gap.
intersting idea
I once shred paladins with urumi in an Arena tg. I just wanted to see how good they were. They didn't disappoint. But as the problem is, you need a lot of them constantly attacking to ensure you get charge bonuses coming out at a steady pace.
Depends on civ but paladins usually shred them just letting you know
I love UwUmi swordsman I also have that opinion they're incredible
hussite would be great if it was a kind of mobile tower that doesn't shoot, but when unpacked it can garrison ranged units and halbs, and they can hit from inside while being shielded.
I have also the feeling that what Hera says is true at a higher level because at lower levels I have seen a lot of people getting rushed in arena for example with Hustite wagon, and ofc redisigning or balanceing those units must take that intoo account.
lmao Hera going *HAM* on the Hussite Wagon!
Hearing sergeants being considered weak is insane to me considering how much median/ newer players like to donjon rush
It would be interesting if they gave elephant units something like an out of combat movement speed bonus. And as soon as they take damage it drops to baseline. It would make them easier to move around the map and maybe kill monks but it won't change the role of the unit
To be fair, sergeants need identity buff. Their tankiness is built on the idea that they should build donjons mid fight. If anything, i'd give sergeants 50% building speed even at the cost of some attack damage lost just to solidify their identity.
im the someone in the chat and im glad that i helped to get the content! 11
ngl, a nice buff for Teutons and Persians is to make their unique units immune to conversion or give them a new Monastery Research that renders them so. This you can actually get value out of them and the unit will fulfill their intended roles or at least slowly reduce the gap to force an engagement.
it feels like Hussite wagons should get a secondary melee attack seeing as it's supposed to emulate multiple people inside a mobile fortress. they should be allowed a basic attack that's one or two damage below a longswordsman with one or two bonus vs cav. that might be too OP but it would help a bit. also being able to shoot multiple enemies at once if their surrounded. wouldn't mind making it a slightly OP unit for a bit. maybe make it have less HP because of the damage buffs?
im not super skilled at this game about 1300 ELO, but i have found the use of the hussite wagon, i generally utilize pure trash units with it, and BBC things like that, what you want to do is have like 5,8 even 10 trash mobs to 1 wagon ratio, basically just have your wagons placed around your units during the fights. you can control group them in small groups if you wish but i just find using just a couple wagons spread out works best for your trash, and makes it really gold efficient in trades this way. if you try massing the wagons your going to get deleted by siege and things. its very easy to counter so the trick is dont make many of them, and have them not stacked on each other have them spread out a bit, you can basically take up alot of map with your armies in this way. just have your armies spread and this is extremely strong.
I always try to make War Elephants work every time I play Persians😅
I have seen Daut with teutons against revolution and it was amazing.
I think Dravidians need elite battle elephants and seige engineers. And their unique tech elephant corp to be more powerful or work on light cav along with Elephants just enough to give them blood lines.
I love the Hussite waggon.
X4 Waggons + x 10 Halbs + x5 crossbow + X4 HC in a square formation is a power house.
That is how they were used in reality. And I love to use them like this in game.
Hera: acts like urumi swordsman suck
everyone: does the research for hera
Hera: time saved 😎
Please more back and forth, is top tier content 😄I love the pause at 4:02 11111111
Bohemians X Teutons u absolutely need hussite if the enemy does the more range castles , and it is great on narrow halls to hold units
Why though? Considering crenellation castles got the same range as siege engineer houfnice, perhaps its better to switch to trebs in that case anyways
I Love the Urumi Swordsman,
IMO there are the powerspike in the Dravidians gameplay.
But, this ist a problem in the dravidians gameplay too,
survive until to be ready to mass them up.
Urumi in aoe2 gives me ptsd to trying to deal with Urumis in AOE3, which are monsters.
Teutonic Knights don’t benefit from the melee armour bonus. Their base male armour was changed from 5 to 6 in castle and 8 to 10 in imp. They are not affected by the bonus, but were buffed on the side as a result
And also, Hera included Urumi Swordsmen but not Flaming Camels?
Ok, crazy idea, what if sergents could build palisade walls
"even hussar they are losing to" says hera after he shows a clip of them beating hussars. Are you ok Hera?
The Hussars also die with Arbalest support
Well i remember once u used against cavaliers and you did awesome
What if you give the elephants an extra bonus against conversions (+2min/2max s).
In return, most civ get a new monastery technology that converts elephants 2min/2max Second faster (as fast as now).
elephant archers: you can't be the worst if you're no longer on the list
The worst unique unit is by FAAAAAAAAR the flaming camel. It's impossible to make them work. I played a 4v4, I had Tatar and they had 3 strong camel civs so regualar cav wasn't an option. I made 40-50 flaming camels and it was 100% useless. My camels barely killed 10 units. Even in the absolute best case scenario vs extremely packed cavs they lose with balanced resources (Keshik, Boyar, Konnik, Imperial Camel Rider) so vs slightly spread units it's a total shitshow.
Kipchak should also be in the list. 100 Kipchak probably lose to 20 Skirms or 30 Arbs.
Well , flaming camel in tg can solve elephants threat. Basically this specific scenario - this is the only purpose of fl. camels.
Kipchaks are not too bad, they cheap on gold cost. But massing them takes a while, expensive elite upgrade and in mid numbers their dps isnt great.
It’s a pity viper did not give his thought on what should be there instead of Urumi and
Sergant
What's your thoughts about a castle age tech that allows unique units to be created at town centers as well?
As a unique tech to a new civ/replace another bad tech? Or as a new general tech like conscription?
Serjeants are great when I play with them😊
Viper is the goat.
That should be a good lesson that a pro opinion is valuable but not final 😂
Hussite Wagons should have just been given a bonus attack against cavalry from the start, which is what the Hussites used the Wagenburg tactics for in the first place, and then the Bohemians unit techs should have been built around that fact.
Or anti-cavalry armour to make them a even better at being a mobile fortification against cavalry charges.
@@thomasfplm nah hussite wagons got destroyed easily when cavalry got close, it shouldn't have cavalry resistance. Cavalry bonus sounds interesting, but their spear lines already did that, it's probably better to just let ranged units garrison inside instead of weird mechanic of damage reduction on projectiles passing them and then make them have same conversion behaviour as ram which need the monk to stay next to them to convert them.
@@CrnaStrela, I don't know from where you got that they were easily destroyed by cavalry.
As far as I know, once the fortification was ready they resisted quite well, the problem was that they needed to set before cavalry arrived, and that's the point I made that they would resist if deployed.
Even in Hera's example Urimi beat the hussar.
Dravidans are my fav civ to play but I don't have any good offensive strategy for feudal age.
M@a into archers works well for me.
Hera is used to send melee units as front line to take damage, so he does not use urumi swordsmen well
Love this kind of video.
Which would be better: A Teutonic Knight with Huskarl pierce armor or Word Raider speed?
Disagree highly on the Teutonic knights. Slow, yes, but tanky as hell, can withstand attacks more than most units, a massive attack and are great at taking down buildings at speed. If you have a bit of patience, what's not to like?
I get why people think Teutonic knights suck… but if you can force the fight (which I know is hard with Teutons your slow yadda yadda) they quickly become one of the best. Especially when someone’s made a hard swap onto spears. Just my opinion, and hera 100x better player than me, but I’ve noticed this happen in games quite often.
I wish the Hussite Wagons actually had *less* range, so they'd position themselves more often in front of other units.
What if they gave Hussite wagons the ability to heal nearby units as a passive...? (stackable)
To add your own content to this vodeo, Who would you put in place of Urumi Swordsman?
Was that a skip the dish ad?
Hussite wagon is shit...just allow archer to garrison in them and fire extra arrows
Didn't the Viper made a Teutonic Knight in one of the Red Bull Finals in the final Game?!?!
Can we get a "Worst 5 Viper Reaction Videos to Hera's Videos" Hera video?
give War Elephant 1 more range :)
They only can hit someone who's between their legs, what is that gigantic trunk for
I remember Viper loves those "bad" civs likes Khmer and Portuguese. Then they got buffed and became top tier civs now.
Let's see if Drividians would got a same resaut.
Why all videos disappeared?
YES DOOD, show em all who's the real King
Dravidians are my favorite civ right now for sure.
So fun to watch
Isnt flaming camel pretty useless as well?
the drama begins
Urumi *should* die to ranged, units having weaknesses is how you balance strong units.
4:35 yeah, 5 urumi swordsmen died to hussars. So they actually die to hussar!
11:15 so much wasted potential. Hera should go like this: the most, stupid and unecessary unque unit is ... the conquistadors.
and then be like-hahahahha, just kidding:D
->imagine Vipers reaction; probably he would fall out of his chair, again:D
When ever I am Persians, I try to go for the slow war elephant instead of trebs
Got confused hard when the twitch add popped up.
what about flamming camel ?
Hera sisters, how will ever cope this!??
The thing I hate about serjeants is that they lose equal resources to generic champions. That makes the unit a really tough sell for me
They are a tank! Using mixed compositions is harder, and allows counterplay, but ideally you do not set a bunch of tanks against a bunch of dps units: you have some tanks, and then add in dps, and have the tanks tank while the dps units dps.
So, theoretically, a mix of serjeants and champions should beat straight champions if you can make it so the serjeants get attacked without delaying your champions much. This is sort of like how centurions work, except more prone to going wrong (if your champions get attacked first, you lose). But in practice, it's probably easier to use some kind of ranged unit as the dps that doesn't take damage. In that case you should see more obvious benefits from serjeant + ranged over champion + ranged.
In AgeArena's tests, Elite Serjeant beats halberdier with 78% of HP remaining with the original 75 HP. No serjeants died, so with the buff to 85 HP, we can just convert that (16.5 HP average HP lost) to 80.5% of HP remaining. Champion with supplies had 73% of HP remaining. In this specific case both champion and serjeant take 5 hits to kill halberdier, but we had 46 champions or 31 serjeants, so the serjeant battle lasted longer and adding ranged units as dps would be proportionally more effective.
Of course, even serjeants are not great at tanking castle fire, and failure to add rams when fighting around an enemy castle is one reason players going infantry may not do well, whether that infantry is serjeants or champions. This may help to explain the presence of serjeants on this list.
What about koreans Turtle ships?
I have been on youtube almost since its inception... and i have seen the number of adds increase every few years but the content creators dont get paid more...
Did you sprain your wrist ?
I really want serjents to repair siege. I really want a combat engineer
Im sorry but the amount of games people have raged and said its unfair because im using Persian elephants is endless and ive been called all types of names because of it not to mention almost everyone says nothing can beat a persian elephant spam when you have trade set up
Hows Hera going to feel when viper kills him with urumi swordsman and hussite wagons 😂
Ok this is peak aoe2 community
urumi is too fragile... quite good UU in CBA though
They shred everything in melee combat. Even jaguar warriors have a hard time fighting them. Ignoring armor only makes them stronger. They are also pretty fast. They had to have a weakness (other than battle and war elephants 😂).
so flaming camels are better than hussite wagons???? 11
Bruh doesn’t have UA-cam premium.. smh 😅
LOL this video has more views than Hera's original :P
ETK are a super strong unit, mobility is only a problem on 1v1 open maps, on closed maps and teamgames they beat evry melee composistion and are unbeatable with a support unit like onager/bbc. Even on open maps they are very useful to defend your crenelation castles on important map positions. U can not judge the UUs on their ability to be just spammed into combat like hussar
You dont do these things in high level competitive games, thats why they have Toutonic Knights so low. If someone playing Archers is even paying attention at all, then you wasted a lot of ressources. If the unit basically does not allow you to engage quickly (for counterattacks for example) then your strategic freedom is limited a lot.
If you're using ETK effectively on a regular basis, it says more about the intelligence of your opponents than the viability of the unit imo. They lose to quite a few melee units (jags, samurai, dravidian wootz steel, leitis, just to name a few) while also being hard countered by everything ranged and their insane slow speed is the reason only really low level players get away with massing them (same with ballista elephants, i punish people who try to mass ballistas too by just making them chase all game)
Just call them B C.
I would say TK is situational unit, not useless or very strong. Good side of TK - even with minimum upgrades they deal with eagles, halbs, hussars.
@@valger3652 lol eagles
dravidians enjoyer here... i was also offended to see Moustache Warriors on this list
I would love to see a Centurion like mechanic added for Teutons that can boost TKs speed. Something like they move at normal infantry rate but only when in LOS of a friendly Castle or Tower.
Great idea!
I think instead of buffing elephants, monks need a rework
Teutonic knights DID NOT get a buff to melee armor, barrack and stable units did for teutons.
day 2 wishing viper wrist a fast recovery so he can give yeus doose 1000 more doggy pats
genitours are the worst 11