As a Chinese I became a Christian after 7 years of living & rejecting Christ in US, not because I had a free will to choose, but because the Father drove me to His only Son in that night and then I began to experience the love of Christ & the love Christian brothers/sisters. Btw, it took me many years of learning the providence and the holiness of God.! God bless & thank you!
@@tkmac7802 - God showed you the way, and you chose to accept it, praise God! You could have chosen not to accept, just like tons of people do all the time. God can open our eyes, but the choice is still ours to believe and trust what He shows us. You are blessed, and may you continue to be!
Big fan of John Lennox. The way he describes the depth and vastness of our Creator, and His love toward all humans ... it's a beautiful thing to sit and truly grasp. God bless you guys
@@matthewdyer2926 Yes… but they exercised their free will and they decided not to love Him. He won’t force anyone… He gives them up to whatever they want. They don’t want Him… They don’t get Him.
@@ossiedunstan4419can you show a blind person what a shadow is? If you can't see evidence of God's existence why not just accept it if it doesn't cause you problems?
@@ossiedunstan4419 There are many, many people who believe in God and who trust Him and His Word. Because they don't work hard to produce proof of His existence doesn't mean they are senile or liars. PS, There is EVIDENCE of God's existence, which is not the same thing as "proof." YOU can't produce proof that God DOESN'T exist. Does that make you senile and a liar? Just askin'😂😂
No sorry. There is no such thing as "free will". Man cannot make any choice or decision without the dominating effect of some underlying cause and God controls all causes.
I think it’s important to remember a few things when considering the so called Calvinist view. 1. Calvinists believe Adam and Eve’s free will situation was different than ours. They were free to obey or sin. Since then Calvinists believe the consequences of sin corrupted everything including our will. Now we make free and real choices but pre-regeneration, we are incapable of choosing not to sin. 2. A second thing I would ask to be considered is our condition in the eternal state. We will be perfectly free to choose only what is in accordance with God’s will and we will not sin. Does Leighton believe we will be capable of sinning? Will we be moral “robots” then? I bet his answer is we will not be robots. So a situation exists where we agree that we will be perfectly free to choose but sin will not be an option. 3. God is sovereign over our wills in such a way that our choices are still free. Consider how we pray for someone’s salvation. We are asking God to effectively interfere with what they will such that they change their will from unbelief to belief.
Your off the mark here! God has never changed anyone's will! He has intervened to help a person make a right choice. When we pray for the salvation of someone God will intervene to bring them to the right state of mind to make that choice, but the decision is with man! The bible is full of such examples. Can men sin in heaven?of course they could! But they will not, He that is born of God sineth not 1Jn3:9. Sin is selfishness! A man must die to self to partake of Christ. God is Love, and we know, There is no law against love Gal5:22-23
@@DEPTRON7 Jesus reveals Himself to you by His Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God reveals to you where you stand before God and that the wrath of God is upon you, but also reveals that Jesus took your sin upon Himself at Calvary and shed His blood to wash your sun away and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. When I accepted that truth, I was no longer under the wrath of God because Jesus took the wrath that was destined for me because of my sin upon Himself. That’s love! I repented of my sin, gave it all to Jesus, asked Him to wash me in His precious blood and asked Him into my life and was born again. I became a new creation there and then and was on my way to heaven-all because of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary for me. I did this not because God changed my will, but because the Lord spoke to me. I believed Him and chose to give my life to Him. I also believe tin pre destination. That’s a big discussion and a mystery. Suffice to say that we are not meant to know all things here. We see through a glass darkly. One day we shall know even as we are known. That’s what the Word of God says and thats enough for me. The Lord has shown me where I stood before Him and revealed to me the answer to my sinful state. I thank Him everyday for His grace and mercy and salvation. He truly is a wonderful God and He is my Saviour!
Conversion or regeneration comes first then faith. We have the freedom to choose chocolate over vanilla or Susie as a wife rather than Dorthy but with God we are dead in our sins not sick. We can't want to. Its our will that's broken. The book of Romans is Paul's summa theologic. All of theology is in that epistle. It plainly states that no one seeks after God, There are none that do good, not not one. The salvation of man is a sovereign choice of God. Paul knew the jews would hate that doctrine and he was ready for them. Read Chapter 9 in Romans. Who are you oh man to tell the Potter how anything is done. @@stephen2975
My father was born in Antrim county, North Ireland and I was also born in a Christian home such as John Lennox. His story is so interesting as my life was with the beauty of my father and Dr. Lennox.
It is always good to hear from brilliant men like John Lennox. He is one of the best Apologists of our time. At the same time I don't agree that the Bible teaches both free will as well as the concept of the sovereignty of God, as defined by Calvinists. The Bible definitely teaches the concept of the sovereignty of God, but it does not mean meticulous control, and it doesn't absolve human responsibility. There is only conflict or contradiction between the two positions if the word "sovereignty" is defined as meticulous control, which is what Calvinism teaches. I feel that people should stop saying that the Bible teaches both positions because while free will is certainly found througout the Bible, most of the time what they mean by both positions are taught is that the Calvinistic definition of the word sovereign is also taught in the Bible, and it clearly isn't. It is not a matter of both positions being in the Bible and we just don't know how to harmonize the two. That's simply not true. All throughout the Bible we see God relinquishing control of things and holding man responsible for what He entrusted them with doing or accomplishing. What we don't see is God controlling absolutely everything all the time.
Sorry, God is always in control and everyone works towards his glory. That doesn't mean we don't make choices, but in the end, it'll work as he sees fit
Calvin was influenced by Aristotle and believed that God is subject to time. But God is "I am" - always in the present and entirely outside time - "knowing the end from the beginning".
We are not called to be apologists. The apostle Paul was an intelligent, learned man as well, and yet he told the Corinthians "I did not come [to you] with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power". The success of the gospel does not depend on it's defense by intelligent men, but on it's being received by those who are willing to receive the foolish message, since "the message of the gospel is foolishness" (1 Cor 1:18). Man's philosophy about free-will, etc. has nothing to do with promoting the faith.
If God is omniscient, then he must know what you choose before you choose. By definition, this is true. I've heard it put that you still choose with free will, God just knew what you'd choose. May you be blessed in your journey with Christ.
The description of God as being omniscient is man’s attempt to provide a description for a being that is so great we cannot begin to understand His ways… It is silly to think we can put labels and restrictions on God through our poor attempts to describe His magnificence and glory… We should have figured this out from the whole “I Am that I Am…” answer God gave to Moses. 😉😉😉
This is much too simplistic of an answer unless you can understand the fact that time itself is a construct. So instead of saying “nice to meet you” to someone, you should really shake their hand and say, “we always met.” It is clear when you read the prophets that man has free will in which God allows His people to choose Himself, which brings Him joy, or other gods and idols, which brings Him pain and jealousy. It is also clear that He has sovereignty in regards to what will happen in the future as well, in terms of the revealing of Christ and other things to come. Calvinism reduces humanity to programmed robots, which is clearly not the intention of scripture. Free will is certainly true, but cannot explain what it would be like to exist outside of time itself.
@@tobennachekwa736 amen brother. If all the ocean were ink and the sky a scroll, it would still be insufficient to describe God and His will. Have a blessed life
@@andrewm8610 When we believe, that is, when we exercise faith, God responds with grace. For it is written: we are saved by grace and that through faith. It is the gift of God that we can be saved by faith and not by works. Faith is not a work. You simply believe. Hallelujah!
John Lennox is a very persuasive speaker, but "among the best carriers of the truth, the word of God", seems unlikely: 1) John suggests that "free-will" is a central Biblical concept. Yet, he fails to explain why the noun "free-will" cannot be found anywhere within The Bible. Only the adjective can be found. 2) "Free-will", as John describes it, is incompatible with the absolute sovereignty of God (1Cor 12:6, Eph 1:11 NASB, but clearest in the Greek text). Moreover, If God did not have absolute sovereignty over all things, how could He keep all His promises within a world filled with 8 billion rebellious, hostile sinners. 3) "Free will" suggests a randomness of choice, which is incompatible with a Law-giving Law-abiding God. If God does not have "free-will", how likely would creatures, made in His image, have "free-will"? 4) While we do have wills and do make choices, our wills are not "free" in the manner that John describes. Instead, our wills are slaves of our desires. If our will was completely free and unconstrained, we would make decisions contrary to our desires ~50% of the time....which even the mentally ill don't do. 5) The reality seems closer to our wills being constrained by our desires, which are, in turn, influenced by forces, which are more powerful than we, and usually beyond our control. Otherwise, our wills would always prevail, and we would be like God. For a supposedly "deep thinker", John falls woefully short and inconsistent with reality of his own experience and logic. "Free-will" appears to be a theological construct to support the ability of anyone to come to Jesus, whenever they chose, as well as to save themselves from the wrath of God, by their own choices, both of which, are contradicted by the Bible, since: A) No one is able to come to Jesus unless the Father drags him (Jn 6:44, literal Greek text). B) The saved are saved by grace alone, lest anyone might boast (Eph 2:8-9).....about their own contributions.
@@alanlietzke5738 I agree with your opening comment, but I disagree with your premise that having free will takes away the sovereignty of God. His sovereignty means he can allow us to have free will, but He can override our free will whenever He chooses to do so. God is still in control, so His will can override ours. The bible doesn't need to use the term "free will" to describe the premise of what free will means, so I don't see that as a valid argument personally. I think you used your free will when you typed your previous comment, or did God make you type it word for word exactly the way you did at the exact time your did? I think God knew you were going to do it, but I also believe He allowed you to do it... because He is sovereign and can allow what he chooses to allow.
@@mjmason751) One correction: I wrote, ""Free-will".... is incompatible with the absolute sovereignty of God ", NOT "takes away the sovereignty of God". Nothing can take away the sovereignty of God. God is omnipotent. 2) Our wills are captive to our strongest desires, thus, not free. Otherwise, we would randomly act contrary to our strongest desires. Even the mentally ill don't act like that. 3) Everyone is either a bond-slave to Satan (Jn 8:44, 2Cor 4:4) or a bond-slave to God (1Pet 2:16). If a slave does not do the will of his master, the master "tightens the screws", until the slave desires to do what the Master desires. Moreover, God disciplines and chastises every son whom He receives (Heb 12:6). 4) "God works all things according to the counsel of His will (Eph 1:11). "All things", means all things, including the wills and desires of 8 billion sinners, most of whom are hostile to God, unless or until God rebirths them.
@@ic7481It boils down to the understanding that if we are saved, from what are we saved? John 8:23-24 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” Death comes to us only because we have fallen short of God’s glory - His design standard is that mankind should share His glory… We are saved from death! Once we are saved, we are saved! We are made fit for heaven.
The Reformation did not deny free will. Rather, like Scripture, it taught that the fallen humanity "hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation" because mankind is now "dead in sin.." and therefore in need of God's grace.
@@FrikdikDavid asks, [A]re [there] any who understand, who seek after God" (Psalms 14:12). Paul gives the answer, "There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God (Romans 3:11).
@@FrikdikThe Reformation was built upon the Word of God as a defense to Catholicism which wasn't. As to a person's ability to choose God/salvation. Let's say for argument sake that everyone has the ability to choose Christ or reject him. OK, but to be given the ability to choose, one must first be given a choice. Jesus said in Matthew 13:23, that the person who ends up getting saved (the good soil) is one that "hears the Word and understands it." Let's put the understanding part aside and just deal with the hearing part for now. Over 90% of the world's population will die without ever hearing the gospel. Where is the choice for these people? Paul said, "How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard [of]?" People can't choose if they're not given a choice. Is God limited in his ability to get everyone the gospel so that they can have a "choice"? Certainly not! He can send Moses, Paul, Peter, angels, etc., to earth to preach to every human being alive today. He can write the gospel in the sky in every language, or drop gospel tracts out of heaven in everyone's language. The problem isn't that God can't reach everyone with the gospel so they can make a choice; He can easily do this, but He doesn't, why? That's His sovereign choice not to. He is the only one who actually chooses in regards to salvation.
"Defender of the Faith"? "Love God with all you are and have" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" doesn't need defending. It needs living. Of course, most people do prefer to "defend" the Faith rather than live it.
@@grantsmythe8625 well relevance depends on who you ask. According to me, you're irrelevant, but I wouldn't be an arse and say such a thing. Because I'm sure your parents would disagree with me.
When Jesus was asked “What is the greatest commandment?” He says love the Lord your God…and your neighbor as yourself. So very interesting that THIS is the greatest. God knows this is the BEST, not always natural, but commanded to love. In my heart this says it ALL. He didn’t “program” us Whosoever will….great video, Dr. Flowers.
The same Jesus said that NO ONE can know the Father unless He wills it so! Mathew 11:27. What about how God wrote our names in His book before the world was made? Why don't anti Calvinists ever have an answer for these?
@@atyt11 "Calvies hate that truth"? What truth do they hate? God commands that we worship Him because He deserves it. We are commanded to love Him even though we can't do it! "We love Him BECAUSE He first loved us"! Remember? He took the first step, otherwise we couldn't love Him.
His will is that none should perish and that all should come to repentance. He doesn’t impose a forced will, what kind of love is that. This is where we find so many that were baptized as babies and yet despise Jesus and the cross. What hinders me from being baptized? If you believe with all your heart you may…..and they went down into the water
@@mattdillon4398 I was being a bit snarky, sorry. I should have said.."calvinism seems to hate the truth" Can we respond to His love? or do we need to be saved first, then we can be saved right after were saved?? I know, calvinism confuses me too. The Bible is filled with IF's. "IF you abide in Me..." Or "IF you confess with your mouth..." Etc.... The word IF alone destroys the chosen for salvation doctrine and stands in complete contrast to the calvinistic interpretation.
One balanced comment was explained to me a few years ago. When we face the cross for salvation the call is 'whosoever will may come', for God is not willing that any should perish. Then when we get saved + look back to the cross, 'chosen before the foundation of the world', also no one came to God unless they're drawn, and subsequently respond. We have free will to reject the wooing of our heart. It takes His wooing because in our sin we're spiritually dead and cannot understand the spiritual things of God. 'The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God, for they are spiritually discerned'... I think there's a balance + the extremes of either Calvanism or Arminianism should be avoided. There's merit + blessings in both.
You guys are making this whole drama of the Bible about man and his abilities. Well it just isn't. It's not about us. We are just creatures created by a Holy Being. Given by One Being to Another Being. Suck it up butter cup. This ain't about you. The whole of Scripture teaches man can't do squat. He's going to smelt a gold calf every time The Being get 5 steps away from him.
That's confused. I held the same position as you, but now wholly reject Arminianism. For instance, scripture teaches that fallen man is unable... 1). To do anything good: Gen 6:5; Job 15:14-16; Psa 130:3; Psa 143:2; Pro 20:9; Ecc 7:20; Isa 64:6; Jer 13:23; John 3:19; Rom 3:9-12; Jam 3:8; 1John 1:8 2). To believe in God (or come to him): John 6:44; John 6:65; John 8:43-45; John 10:26; John 12:37-4 3). To understand the truth: John 14:17; 1Cor 2:14 4). To seek God: Rom 3:10-11 5). He is blinded and corrupt in his heart: Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8 6). He is captive to sin and Satan: John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19 7). He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil: Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14 You can copy and paste the vs to Bible Gateway
@@lamontfaulkner5090 I absolutely agree. We cannot decide to come to God. A dead thing cannot make itself alive. I don't think it's Arminian to say "Whosoever will may come" because it's my will or come or not once I'm drawn to God. It all starts with Him but I've freewill to reject as well as accept. Its a set of train tracks. I'm just letting Scripture explain itself, because there's a way to balance whosoever will may come with chosen before the foundation of the world.... God is The Truth therefore all that He says is correct and does not contradict... If I'm making myself clear...
@@cherithcampbell1157 I appreciate your demeanor and willingness to discuss this. Good for you (and me). 1). "I don't think it's Arminian to say "Whosoever will may come...". A). Whosoever will "MAY" come? What translation is this? I think you are mis-quoting the scripture here. I. The New living bible and Youngs literal translation (both similar) interpret it closest to the original language"...that everyone who believes in him..." rather than "whosoever will". Neither of these interpretations have anything to do with mans "ability or inibility" to believe, but rather that the ones that DO believe will not perish. 2). "It all starts with Him but I've freewill to reject as well as accept." A). Noooo, 😀 while you were still dead in your sins and trespasses, you would have NEVER believed and perished! "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is a GIFT of God..." Eph 2:8. Check out Phil 1:29... "For it has been GRANTED TO YOU that for the sake of Christ you should NOT ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM but also suffer for his sake...". God didn't ask your permission when you were born the first time, neither did He ask a dead person (you) if you wanted to be born the second time. Again... "By grace you have been saved!" 😇 Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha....X infinity! Hey, I have a serious headache and and backache. Ponder what i've said, and lets follow-up. I and my wife were in your place. We could see a little of both Armininanism and Calvinism. James White book "The Potters Freedom" is what put it all together for me. 🤯 Have a Great day/night, and lets Kibbitz soon! Numbers 6:24-26 Lamont 🙏
Dr Lennox is a brilliant scientist who has made his life's work to give all who are interested the wisdom and knowledge that help us become better Christians and go towards the salvation Jesus has promised us. His amazing education and erudition help us from the basics to grow in faith and love for our Creator. A blessed man, how lucky we are to have him today among us!!!!Long life, professor. God bless you!!!
On free will: As some with ADHD when I take my medication it gives me more ability to make choices. Having experienced the difference between limited choices and more choices, I’m baffled by determinists who say there are no real choices we make. There’s literally a pill I can take that gives me the ability to regulate my attention and where I put my focus.
@h2s142I think you missed my point? I’m saying there’s a pill that exists for my neurodiverse brain that restores it to more normal function. What this pill does through stimulation is it allows me to focus better and choose where that focus goes. I have biological evidence of us being designed with free will and the ability to choose.
The comment is trying to show an example of the fact that free will means you have the choice to make any action you want, unlike a preprogrammed robot. And the analogy is that ADHD medication is a drug that relaxes some of the reactive side of the issue.
Free will and choice are to my mind not the same or interchangeable. Since the fall, man has been corrupted and weighed down in every facet of his being. He is not "free." Yes, he has a will and he makes choices, but it is not by nature a "free" will. I prefer to use the word choice.
Im convinced Calvinists have an unhealthy relationship with power. They think "of course he can force people to love him so he does". The mind of a kidnapper. If only you can attain the right amount of power, you will force people to love you.
Of course no compatibilist Calvinist would frame it that way, they wouldn’t say God forces anyone, they would say He changes your nature so that you want to…
@@ijclnl48 what are you calling “force” and why is there no distinction in regards to God changing one’s nature? Even armininans say God has to change a person’s nature before they can come to faith, they just say that changing of a nature is something that can be resisted
Indeed. The more I learn, the more untenable it shows itself as a philosophy. Calvinism continuously collapses under the contradiction of its own inconsistency.
Here’s how you knock down to two pillars of Calvinism: God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
@@jjphank although I do agree with your interpretation of Romans nine through 11 talking about the nation of Israel, you’re ignoring much of what is actually disgusted in Romans nine. Specifically with Jacob and Isa the scripture says before either having been born or doing any bad or good God had determined Jacob I have loved and I have hated. Also the overall context of Romans nine is, if God has chosen Israel then why has the majority of Israel rejected Christ. Paul answers that in saying that just because someone is a descendent of Abraham doesn’t necessarily mean they are part of his Israel. Also Paul says it’s not of him who will nor of him who runs, and what that means is that salvation is not dependent upon human will or human effort. And then Paul, because he knows what he’s actually saying, anticipates people arguing against the immorality of God in choosing some and passing over others and answers that by reminding The reader that God is sovereign, and that means that he is not accountable to any human being or any being in his created universe. And in the first three chapters of Romans Paul establishes the fact that every human being who has ever lived is guilty of sin and deserving of God‘s judgment. So you cannot claim that God is immoral for choosing some and passing over others when everyone is guilty of sin and deserving of judgment according to the standard of the law. I don’t subscribe Calvinism and I don’t know all of the specifics of what Calvinists believe. But the only way to properly interpret the ninth chapter of Romans, and the only way to interpret the fact that God sent Israel into certain villages and told them to kill everyone including men, women, and nursing infantscan only be reconciled that God has chosen some and not others. What choice did those nursing infants that God told the Israelites to kill without mercy have in choosing God?
"For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him to me, and at the Last Day I will cause all such to rise again from the dead." - John 6:44. That was the case for me. I want to give ALL the glory to God. I did nothing on my own, yet I am not a robot. My sin is my sin. My salvation is totally His. We can never fully understand how everything takes place or how EXACTLY God works. The same way we can't fully wrap our finite minds around 1 God in three eternal persons. We can't even wrap our minds around eternal! God does for me what I can't do by myself. At least that's how my heart sees it. I very well could be wrong. This doesn't govern how I should live my life though, or how I should view other people's salvation.
God draws all people unto himself, but he allows people to reject his free will. But to ALL who RECEIVED him, he gave the power to become children of God. God does all of the saving and forgiving, but he doesn't force people to receive him.
Excellent insight. He looks to and fro seeking out whose hearts are toward Him and will draw them to Himself… but as you say, He lays before us a choice to receive or reject. God is love… and love is bounded by free will and choice… He HAD to give us a choice if He wanted love in return… even though the risk is there that He is rejected.
@@richardevans6633 Great point. It's God's will that none should perish. (2 Peter 3:9) Jesus called disciples who said no. (Luke 9:59-62) And if Judas had gone to the cross and hit his knees instead of the to the tree and rope, what do you think Jesus would have said? Judas's story would have been the greatest of all of them. His choice is also our choice.
Funny how you Calvinists become literalists only when it fits your doctrine, but when Scripture says "God so loved the World" - you claim it means something else than what is written.
Dr. Lennox is absolutely brilliant. I've seen a few of his talks with students at colleges last year and followed his talks ever since. I've gone deeper in my study in this area, thanks to him. I don't know anything about Calvinism, I just know what scripture says.
@@CoffypowellI'm with Peter on this one 🤣.. "Be careful reading Paul's writings has some have twisted them to their own destruction!".... God has never changed... never will... He showed mercy and Grace in the garden... And never stopped.... What is Grace if not forgiveness for your sins? For that you have to ask. Rituals and traditions cannot buy your way out of condemnation. (That's the works Paul is talking about)... This is so misunderstood I heard a full the other day say that our "good works" were as filthy rags to God 😭 Cuz he can't read! 🤣 We are saved unto good works!... Some people get saved and instead of ceasing to sin... Like a dog returning to its vomit.. they just keep living the same way... making stupid decisions. Every parable Jesus spoke denies the idea that "you are not involved in your salvation" " If you have a little strength " " Endure to the end "... I think it was Paul that warned us that the angel of light Lucifer, transformed his ministers into angels of light to deceive... Would not that require a huge number of different Christian religions? 🤣... Yep
@@RenardGarzaro where would you get such a silly idea?... Every word must be believed!... Even the multitudes that say you have to choose and obey... Oh I found the problem... I quoted the apostle Peter... And apparently his warning has gone unheeded... The twisted doctrines derived from his letters are debunked... in the letters!!!... Perhaps I should have said understood in the context of the whole Bible....and believed...
Some questions for Free-Will" believers: 1) If "Free-Will" is an essential feature of Biblical theology, why is this noun never mentioned in the Bible, while extremely exclusive terms, like "Chosen" (Mt 20:16, 22:14, Eph 1:4) "His People" (Mt 7:21, Lk 1:77, 7:16, Rev 21:3), "His Elect" (Mt 24:31, Mk 13:27, Lk 18:7), "The Elect" (Mt 24:22,24, Mk 13:20,22, Rom 11:7, 3Tim 2:10), "Ekklaysia" (called-out-ones/church) are mentioned in several places? 2) If exclusive,deterministic laws are acceptable, even desirable predictability in daily life, why is it rejected by "Free-will "Arminian believers. Is it not the same God the law-maker of both? 3) Is God being unfair if all are worthy of destruction (Rom 3:10), yet some receive mercy and compassion (Rom 9:15). 4) Is God being unjust if he creates some people as "vessels of wrath, prepared for destruction (Rom 9:22), having mercy on some , while hardening others (Rom 9:18)? 5) Is not the "narrow gate and afflicted way" (Mt 7:13-14), the God-chosen, ridiculed Calvinist one, while the "wide gate and easy way" is the popular, Arminian, "Free-Will" one"
It’s quite simple you can believe in John Calvin’s interpretation of the scriptures and follow him OR, you can follow Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life. Calvinism is prideful, boastful and creates the idea that only Calvinists are God’s chosen people. Calvinism is false doctrine created by “the elect” who preach selective salvation instead of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 🙏🏼
@@chuckdriver8269 I agree it is quite simple: 1) Believe the "narrow gate", salvation by Grace alone (Eph 2:8-9) doctrines within the original God-breathed manuscripts (like the Reformers), or 2) Believe the "wide gate", "broad way" doctrines, as introduced ~100 years later by Jacob Arminius and his followers which are designed to tickle the ears of those with itching ears (2Tim 4:3-4), with doctrines which promise salvation by doing something that one can subsequently boast about (contrary to Eph 2:9). The Bible truth is quite simple and clear: 1) Some have been "chosen (by grace alone) to be holy and blameless in Him", from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), and have been predestined into adoptions as sons of God (Eph 1:5). 2) The names of "His Elect" (Mt 24:31, Mk 13:27), "His People" (Mt 1:21, Lk 1:68, 77, 7:16, Heb 10:30, Rev 21:3), "The Elect" (Mk 13:22, Col 3:12, ) have been eternally written into "The Lamb's Book of Life" from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8, 17:8), thousands of years before any of them could do either good or evil (Rom 9:11). 3) these will also be called "Blessed of the Father when they will be invited to inherit a kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Mt 25:34). 4) The works for those who will enter His rest were completed from the foundation of the world (Heb 4:1-9). Nothing else is needed. God does it all from start to (rapture) finish, with glorified, immortal bodies.
@@chuckdriver8269 Is it not prideful that you think that you chose Christ out of your own free will? That you are more sincere than the other man who didn't? You might say that you chose Christ because you recognized your wretched condition. A Calvinist would say that they were so wretched that they couldn't even recognize their wretched condition.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 salvation is a free gift of grace through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ given to all who believe through faith. If you think faith in the promise of salvation through Christ is prideful, then you need to take a long hard look at yourself and pray for guidance.🙏🏼
A fallen sinner is only free to sin, and totally unable and unwilling to come to Christ. scripture teaches that fallen man is unable... 1). To do anything good: Gen 6:5; Job 15:14-16; Psa 130:3; Psa 143:2; Pro 20:9; Ecc 7:20; Isa 64:6; Jer 13:23; John 3:19; Rom 3:9-12; Jam 3:8; 1John 1:8 2). To believe in God (or come to him): John 6:44; John 6:65; John 8:43-45; John 10:26; John 12:37-4 3). To understand the truth: John 14:17; 1Cor 2:14 4). To seek God: Rom 3:10-11 5). He is blinded and corrupt in his heart: Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8 6). He is captive to sin and Satan: John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19 7). He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil: Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14 You can copy and paste the vs to Bible Gateway
@@lamontfaulkner5090 Shows principle of our responsibility in relationship with God. If not real choices, then no respossibility. Whole mess is for Augustine. He brought pagan doctrines to christianity. He spent 10 years in heresies before faith. Check Soteriology101 Ali Bonner interview(Cambridge historian). Reformers later picked up those errors.
I guess these guys have never read Romans 3:11 or Luther's "The Bondage of the Will". We have free will to love, to choose what socks we'll wear, what school we will go to, etc., but our will is tainted by our sin. If we can choose God we are equal partners with God. Making us little gods. It demeans or savior's work on the cross. It diminishes our gratitude of God's undeserved amazing Grace. Why would we need a savior if we have a choice in our salvation? Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:3-4
Thank you Leighton and John for helping to exalt man and deal God a bit of humble pie! When it comes to salvation God is NOT sovereign! MAN is sovereign, he is on the throne! Man decides, by his amazing good heart and free will whether he will be saved or not and God is POWERLESS to stop him! Yes, God desires for all men to be saved, but God doesn't always get what He wants! Man can ultimately say to god, "Not thy will but MINE be done"! One day Leighton, you and I will stand before God and BOAST that we saved ourselves and God will applaud us and give us our due praise!
Many have a problem with God controlling their tought process before they choose Christ. But don't think twice about praying that God would control their every thought, after they choose Christ.
People pray all kinds of nonsense.... like God make me love you. We are to take every thought captive out of our love of Jesus, and put to death the deeds of the flesh by the agency of the Holy Spirit which lives in the believer. (Rom 8) We have to take responsibility for ourselves and cooperate with the Spirit's transforming work in us.
@@RenardGarzaro And hearing this, Jesus *said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” The Greek word translated 'repentance" in the Bible means to change your mind. When I pray for people I ask for the Father to have mercy and forgive their sins and to open their eyes that they can see the truth. In short to give them a chance....not override anyone's will. What do you make of Jesus meeting Paul (then called Saul) on the road to Damascus. knocked off his horse and blinded....forced to believe or just given an extraordinary opportunity to change his mind?
@@RenardGarzaro Romans 12:2 God does the renewing. We have very little to do with our physical and spiritual birth. Other than experiencing them, and looking back to see what God has done.
@@RenardGarzaro Please read my previous posts carefully then clarify what you mean. And BTW context is everything Ezekiel 36: 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “It is not for your sake, house of Israel, that I am about to act" So God is speaking to the house of Israel vs 28 "And you will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; " I would guess that's not you.
Doesn't be bible teach that 18:22 our free will has been impaired and severly compromised by the power of sin and the sinful nature within 18:22 each human being. We need God's intervening and saving grace to enable and empower us to to embrace repentance, faith in Jesus and a new heart and nature. Jesus said, You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed to go and bear fruit. God's choice and our choice after the working of his grace within us? What do you think. Mystery? Like Prof Lennox said, "how God is able to do certain things is hard or impossible for us to comprehend. But we must agree that we are saved entirely by the grace of God through the gift of Jesus His Son.
Thank you Leighton, ever faithful. It's shocking to see intelligent people watch this and similar videos and still a) not believe in God or b) think that He made us without the ability to choose. Ironically the one view disproves the other.
The real sadness is to see so many people, listen to these delusions and think these are truths of life. I mean do you even hear what Flowers says in this video? He says that we can have the strongest desire for one thing but then choose something else. Do you understand what kind of nonsense is this? Let's give an example. If you wake up in the morning and you really want to remain in your bed and continue to sleep, it's your "strongest desire" but then you force yourself up and go to work. Does this mean that Flowers is right and that we can choose things that we desire less? Of course not! Because do you know what would happen to you if you really wanted to remain in your bed sleeping more than wake up? You would REMAIN IN YOUR BED AND WOULD SLEEP! So, no matter how strongly you would desire to remain in your bed if you got up and went to work, it means you desired to get up and go to work more than remain in your bed. We always choose what we desire most, always, without exceptions. So, Flowers is living in a complete fantasy world, in La La land of delusions and then you guys listen to him and enjoy living in the same La La land and this is really sad. He is not serving God by spreading these delusions and deceptions, that is for sure.
@nikokapanen82 says: "We always choose what we desire most." That's not choice, that's control. I'm very sad if that's true for you; it's certainly not true for me and everyone i have asked. Praying for you Niko 🙏💗
@@chrisneeds6125 You are not thinking very wisely enough. I believe you are mistaking desires with the greatest desires. You think that if you desire something in general that does not mean that you are forced to do it. This is true, simply having some desire does not make you actually do it. Yet the strongest desire is always what we actually do. So if you desire to keep scrolling, let's say YT shorts, but this desire is not the strongest one, then you can decide to stop scrolling. But if you desire something the most, like to follow Jesus, then it is impossible for you to simply choose to follow Muhammad instead, you would remain a Christ follower as long as you desire it most.
@@chrisneeds6125 What exactly are you after? That we always choose those things that we desire the most? This is a simple logical conclusion is you ponder and contemplate enough. It is logically impossible to desire something more but choose something else instead. Try to think of any choice you made, you made it because you wanted it more than anything else. This is not extraordinary, this is a simple fact of life. And no, this is not found in the Scriptures because this is about logical reasoning, the Bible does not teach us it because God expects us to understand these things like we understand math for example. Let's have an example; remember Peter swearing that he would never deny Christ even if he would have to die. Why was he saying it? Because he was sure that he is sovereign and he decides how he behaves. Yet just some hours later, he ended up in a situation where he realized that if he confessed to knowing Christ, he would end up being nailed on the cross and that led him to feel so strong fear that he failed in keeping the promise and denied knowing Jesus three times. Yet if we think deeply enough what exactly was the reason for his denying Jesus? It was his strongest desire to live, yes, he wanted to live more than anything else at that moment, so he acted according to his strongest desire.
His position isn't borne out by scripture. The Calvinist position declares that, *apart from God's saving grace*, we are incapable of responding positively to the gospel. In other words, even our response to the gospel (faith) is initiated by God's grace, rather than self-effort (works). If saying 'yes' to the gospel is an exercise of free will (without divine empowerment to do so), then to exercise free will (by saying 'yes' to the gospel) demonstrates more virtue than to say 'no'. If that positive response to the gospel is indeed self-effort of making a choice without the intervention of God's grace (as 'free will' implies), then such a response would evidence *superior merit* (when compared to those who reject Christ). That merit would be an occasion of boasting. Yet, St. Paul emphasises: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8 - 9). So, John Lennox would need to explain why, in contrast with his position, scripture states: "for it is God who works in you both *to will* and do of His good pleasure."
I have doubts about free will. I was 7 or 8 when I went to Sunday school, and I can’t explain the passion and the love for God I had. It was almost an obsession that I still have to this day, but I can't claim I chose God. I didn't have the capacity to decide at that age and I still can't shake it out of me. I believe God chooses us, not the other way around.
You have the capacity to respond to love at that age. Of course you do. So you therefore have the capacity to respond to the *source of love* I have been working with little children for years, planting seeds, and they all, without exception, are attracted to God. It's ONLY sin (which is a choice too) that darkens people's hearts and minds and causes them to want to defy God and run from Him (and anyone who demonstrates Him or speaks of Him). The biggest sinners (often the most prideful actually) I have met are the ones that hate God most - the complete opposite to how little children react. Look at 2 Corinthians 2:15-16. Christ (and those of us in whom he indwells: 2 Corinthians 13:5) s a SWEET aroma to the pure and innocent. And the opposite to them that are perishing.
@leenieledejo6849 You're right, I can RESPOND to God's love as a child, it's like loving your mom and dad, but I wouldn't have the intellectual capacity or maturity to understand, compare eternal life with death, and choose life. For that matter, nobody taught us the Gospel like that at Sunday school; we just learned about Jesus and the sermons on the mount, and I just fell in love with the bible and Jesus. It wasn't because I understood the consequences of not following or following Jesus, but all I could think about in my free time was Jesus. That's why I believe God chooses us even before we choose him. I agree that we have free will to say no as an adult, but still, I believe God prepares our hearts to receive Him. We are selfish and ignorant that without God's help, we could make the wrong choice.
go and read history of the church. san agustin in 412 brought this from manqueism. calvinist just copy and paste what san agustin said 1200 years in the past. even the catholic church rejected that from san agustin. but calvinist just embrace the free will no free, from san agustin. go and red history my friend. you are agustinian-maniqueism, and tha apostolic father rejected by 300 years until san agustin brought that vie from the gnostic-maniqueism.
@@kevinrussell1144 Cain ignored the example God gave of a blood sacrifice to cover sins . No fruitbasket will suffice. And read the next verse in Jer "O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.". Correction comes from obeying the words of God. Not some secret gnostic grids of power that move your muscles and neurons this way and that.
I’m baffled that you think Cain gave an “honest, heart-felt, and loving gift,” what makes you think that’s what was in Cain’s heart? What did Scripture say anywhere that gave you that impression? You’re assuming Cain’s sacrifice was all of those things, but his actions demonstrate a totally different situation. He offered a sacrifice to God, did he have some measure of faith? He must have, because even though his offering was rejected God came to discuss the issue WITH him. Cain ignored God, literally did not respond to God. He didn’t ask God for help, so he could give an acceptable offering. God did tell him that he had a heart issue, “sin crouches at the door.” Cain didn’t ask what that meant. God said, “you should rule over him.” Cain did not act like someone who wanted a relationship with God at all. Some part of him may have wanted God’s approval and acceptance, BUT he wanted God to accept him as he was AND not expect him to rule over the sin that was ready to pounce. Cain focused on the fact that his brother’s offering was accepted NOT on the fact that God came to HELP him. Then Cain went out and killed his brother, Abel. Murdered him. You think Cain’s issue began with God accepting Abel’s offering AND not accepting his? When God comes to Cain a second time, Cain now wants to respond AND he responds using a play on words that seems to mock his brother’s profession, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Abel was a keeper of sheep. No sorrow there (godly or worldly, neither one). He sounds proud and arrogant UNTIL God gives a judgement. Ironically he seems to ask for help by presenting his case as one who will be killed (like his brother) and it’s more than he can handle. God then does something surprising, He places a mark on Cain that when people see it they won’t kill him. God knew Cain’s heart. He saw what was in there AND He warned Cain about it AND told him to “rule over” the sin that beset him. When I read the story of Cain and Abel in Scripture, I see Cain as one who hated his brother. Who could murder their own brother in a fit of rage (or otherwise) AND then when God shows up uncover what he did, he tried to brush GOD off with a “clever” retort. That clever remark revealed quite a lot about Cain though. Cain, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Obviously he didn’t think so! He was his brother’s murderer. The religious Jews who cried out, Crucify Him! crucify Him! Crucify Him! They were like Cain. No remorse, no sorrow, no shame afterwards. Obviously NOT all Jews, because His disciples and followers weren’t among that number. The point is, from the very beginning you CANNOT love God and at the same time hate your brother. I don’t see Cain’s sacrifice as an honest, heartfelt, loving gift. I think that’s a stretch especially considering that the New Testament does not indicate that to be Cain’s attitude at all. He didn’t humble himself. He didn’t ask God for more information or additional help. He didn’t ask his brother for help or advice regarding sacrificial offerings either. According to Jesus Christ, Abel was a prophet. I’m just wondering if you have any Scripture to support your opinion of Cain’s offering and attitude?
Augustinian/Calvinist here. Before I say anything I would like to know why, in every presentation about free-will I have seen or heard, never is scripture invoked. John Lennox is brilliant, but he is no theologian; I think he would agree. Did Adam have free will when he was created? Or did God give Adam permission to choose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? When Adam disobeyed God and immediately die spiritually, did he retain that free will? Certainly. He was free to choose to do good or evil according to his conscience as Paul says in Romans. But was he free to go back through that door to God on his own? No. God had to open that door for him and did so through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. I think we agree on that last sentence. If we are dead spiritually then it's not possible for us to seek God without Him awakening us. Scripture says that no one seeks God (Romans 3:11). John 3:11b says "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Can we cause ourselves to be born again? And if we are born again, we are born into His kingdom. And if we are born into His kingdom, we are back home with Him. Who is going to choose to be dead again? It's not like an interview where your prospective employer asks, after going over all the benefits and pay, if you want the job or not. God has rescued you from perishing. If you don't like the idea that God chooses you against your will because you think that is horrid, do other things that God did in the Scriptures bother you? "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated." (Romans 9:13; Mal 1:2-3). Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." God tells Isaiah Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” No free will there. Did Abram have a choice, or did God just tell him to go to Canaan? Did God ask Joseph if he wanted to be sold into slavery? Did God give Jonah a choice to go to Ninevah? Did Jesus ask any of the Apostles to follow him or did He just tell them to? Did God give Paul a choice to convert or did Jesus make him? Are there any Scriptures that indicate that anyone had any choice to do anything? Ponder on these scriptures John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:65 “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” John 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 17:9 "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours." Acts 13:48 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love Ephesians 1:11 -12 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Wow, I am strongly opposed to Lennox false teaching on the creation of the world, but His thought on why God created us with freewill is simple but profound explanation. I will be using this from now on.
Far from refuting the form of Calvinism, someone like RC Sproul or Dr. James white or Greg Koukl proposes.. As someone who tries to understand the Calvinistic theology and not yet fully convinced by it, i wud say.. Not the best attempt, bcoz honestly as i understood it, there is a more sophisticated version of Calvinism which these "refutations" dosent even begin to address.
Bingo! If God created man without the ability to freely (Biblical Term throughout Scripture) choose of their own free will and accord, then where is true repentance? These matters shouldn't even be an issue within the body of Christ. The very essence of one denying self and relying solely on the finished work of the only begotten Son of God at Calvary's cross without any idea that salvation can be accomplished by the sinner is the requirement laid out for us in the gospel of the grace of God. I honestly feel as if His willing sacrifice is being attacked.
@@larrybedouin2921 So then we better not send missionaries to unreached groups, since they are not guilty for any of their sins as long as they don't hear the word. All we are doing is condemning some of them who would have been okay. I don't think that comports with Scripture.
@@flman9684 Making a choice and having a will does not equal libertarian free will. A one-year-old placed in a crib has many choices but does not have a libertarian free will. The sovereign parent determines the boundaries. Calvinists believed that Christ's sacrifice is 100% effective and thus he saves his people from their sins by raising dead sinners to spiritual life without losing a single one of his sheep--how is that an attack?
Free will and determinism exist side by side in a constant state of tension. It's not a question of 'either-or.' Free will and determinism are both true. This is what God has designed. He's really amazing like that. Get over it. John 3 makes this quite clear. Jesus begins by telling Nicodemus about being born - an event that was entirely out of your control and that you don't even remember. Then Jesus suddenly switches tracks and talks about "whosoever will." Is salvation a thing totally under God's control or do we have some responsibility? Answer - yes.
LOVE Dr Lennox!!! What a beautiful man. I’ve started to also grow to love Dr. Flowers as well! Thank you Lord for creating these intelligent beautiful souls❤
I don't follow you. How does God's electing work of salvation and sovereignty approach atheism? I think this is a misconstrual of Calvinism and uncharitable as well.
@@leepretorius4869 sovereignty is - *God answers to nobody* - *He will do what HE WILL* (with no permission of anyone) - *God will EXECUTE JUDGMENT according to HIS RIGHTEOUS JUSTICE* - Numbers 23: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man that he should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do it? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good? - *God is not a respecter of persons* - and if He is *KING* , He set the *Ordinances of Heaven* and set the dominion thereof over the earth.
Which of you have heard of St. Augustine? He was an early Church father who wrote the doctrine of free will and the Church embraced for many hundreds of years. Who has heard of Pelagius? The Pelagianism was condemned by the church because it clearly contradicted scripture. Pelagius was persuaded men had the ability to be sinless. If man has the ability not to sin, why does he sin? St. Augustine explained it this way in latin: Posse Peccare (possible to sin) and Posse non Peccare (possible not to sin) and non Posse non Peccare ( not possible not to sin), is the doctrine of the fall. Who embraces the fall of Adam that cursed humanity who are descendants of Adam, which is all of us? What would there be now if Adam and Eve never sinned? Would there be a fall? Will man sin in there glorified state in heaven? If they will not sin when glorified, then why not if free will means we have the ability to sin and at the same time have to ability not to sin? Did Christ not say he who sins is a slave to sin but he who the son sets free is free indeed? Free from what? Set free from the bondage to sin. There was another controversy called Cassianism, which was considered semi Pelagianism. Semi Pelgianism is a form of Arminianism. John Cassian had the same argument we are seeing here and was condemned as a heretic by the early church. He was soundly defeated by St. Augustine's argument that covered predestination and sovereignty of God. St Augustine is known as Doctor Gratiae (doctor of grace) which is to say grace alone brings us to Christ. Both the first century and subsequent doctrine embraced the absolute sovereignty of God. St. Augustine and the early church said grace alone persuades to come to Christ. If Paul said, and whoever wrote the book of Hebrews, "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Does God draws someone to Himself does that person change his desire to embrace Christ? If said, "NO ONE CAN", (which is to say ability to come to Christ) come to me unless the Father draws him, then it God who gives grace to the one He will give to Christ. Do you pray for people to come to Christ? If you pray for that, and don't believe God changes their desire, why do you pray for another if that person has an absolute free will to reject the grace of God? Calvinism is nothing more than Augustinianism. Calvin did not invent the doctrine of Grace Alone. It was taught clearly by the early church and through scripture. Nor did Calvin write the book for predestination. Paul embraced predestination and Augustine embraced predestination as clearly written in the book of Romans. We all have to explain what predestines us, as written in the book of Ephesians 1:3-14. Arminsim is irrational logically. It would have us believe, as Pelagius and Cassian, our wills come out of nothing.There must be a reason for our inclinations for us to choose this or that. If the holy spirit does the work of sanctification, does the holy spirit have influence to persuade the will to choose things of God? The will is absolutely that which we most desire at the time of choosing or we could not choose. If we choose without having an antecedent cause, then the law of causality has been violated and science along with it. If a person chooses Christ then something must change the desire of that person, or their desire will remain as it was. There cannot be an effect if there was not an antecedent cause. That's what we call the grace of God. The call of the reformation was Augustinism, which was clearly embraced by Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and later Jonathan Edwards and many more. The majority of the church embraced Augustinianism and semi Pelagianism was not the majority as it is today. Johnathan Edwards has been said to be the greatest mind the America's ever produced. The reformation was about faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone, glory of God alone, and Christ alone. There's little left for a will that has no cause to change its desire.
Well, one thing we do know from Scripture is that God desires ALL people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth - 1 Timothy 2:4. The Greek is very clear and unequivocal and only a corrupt mind would read the text differently. So on that Scriptural basis, if we are to interpret, eg Romans 9 (Jacob and Esau) as relating to decrees of salvation or damnation (rather than concerning Israel), then we have to accept a serious contradiction in the Word of God. Isaiah 5: 1-7 also destroys any notion that God's grace is irresistible: verse 4: "Why then when I EXPECTED it to bring forth good grapes, did it bring forth wild grapes" - and then God invites the reader to appreciate the rightness of his justice in punishing the vineyard (His rebellious people). God said he set up the vineyard (ie He 'predestined' the vineyard) to bring forth good grapes, but the vineyard had been granted the power and will to turn those predestined good grapes into wild grapes. This passage of Scripture is utterly irrefutable. Augustine et al may have formulated their popular doctrines, but as a Christian believer I turn only to the Word of God, which I believe to be the true Protestant and Reformation approach.
It is always interesting to me how people use the same terms but mean different things. I believe in faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone, glory of God alone and Christ alone...but I am not a calvinist.
@@algraham7177 First, you are reading too much 1 Timothy 2:4. If God desires all people to be saved then why is it all people are not be saved? The context is all people in the sense there no rank for those might be saved. It's all people regardless of rank. I would recommend reading Ephesians, Galations, Gospel of John, and of course Romans. It unmistakable God Chooses those for whom He has ordained to be save. What does scripture say about God's sovereignty? God gives to whomever He pleases. Grace is the ingredient to be saved and that grace is not of ourselves but a gift of God. "No man CAN come to me unless the Father draws." No man is a universal negative, which means NO MAN. Again Christ says to His disciples you did not choose me but I chose you. Again, God says I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I harden whom I will harden. And again, no one seeks God, no not even one. Not one seeks God, which means not one and not some will seek God. When the reformers said it is my grace alone, it doesn't means we add a little something to God's grace. Here's a rational look using the law of causality. If we choose God, what is the antecedent for the desire to choose God? Every effect must have a cause. What is the cause for choosing God when before we were not choosing God? The antecedent is the grace of God. For we know choosing has a reason for choosing or nothing can be chosen. Our desire changes toward God when God alone changes our desire to choose God. Moreover, why do people pray to God, as in 1 Timothy, which commands us to pray for all people? If prayer is the effectual ingredient in petition to God then it follows God's sovereignty is the manifest power that changes the desire for whom God wills to change their desire, otherwise prayer is useless if God has no power to change the will, or desire, of the one choosing God.
1 Timothy 2:4 God desires ALL to be saved. You ask, then why isn't everyone saved? The answer is obvious. God permits people to freely choose to reject him and his desire for them. It's a terrible choice, but God permits people to make that terrible choice. But God doesn't give up, and keeps drawing people to himself. What kind of man would drag a woman into his house to be his wife whether she liked it or not??? True love must be a free choice. God truly loves us and desires that we all have his free salvation. But he doesn't force his desire on anyone.
So you're saying GOD sends people to hell because he didn't choose them. And if all things that happen are because GOD made every man's choice because man doesn't have free will the you would be saying GOD is evil
10:30 mixing metaphors, you call all animals (e.g. lions) meat machines, essentially automatons/robots, amoral agents without true free will, no capacity for then love, but later claim a human child chooses a real dog rather than a stuffed animal because the puppy can disobey or obey, to love or not, so...are animals robots or not? If robots, then why is the puppy better than the plushy?
According to Scripture, to love is a Divine command, to begin with. How could you miss this, just read the Decalog (10 Commandments), as interpreted by Jesus Christ!🙄
Ephesians 1:3 KJV "Blessed be the GOD and FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in CHRIST: 4 according as HE hath chosen us in HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before HIM in love: 5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by JESUS CHRIST to HIMSELF, according to the good pleasure of HIS will, 6 to the praise of the glory of HIS grace, wherein HE hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 in WHOM we have redemption through HIS blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS grace;" Case closed!
The CHURCH was chosen to be IN HIM before the foundation of the world. We were chosen to be conformed to His Image. Actually the verse says WE WERE PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE. FIRST BY BEING CONFORMED TO HIS DEATH. Unfortunately Calvin totally missed that truth.
@@Larry-s1n You have made the RCC your god and you must obey your god's sacramental works to be forgiven of sin and you continue to be in servitude and bondage to you sins then burn in purgatory for your sins all the while denying what CHRIST said in John 3:15 KJV That whosoever believes in HIM (CHRIST) should not perish, but have ETERNAL LIFE. 16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE. 17 For GOD sent not HIS SON into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through HIM might be saved. 18 He that believes on HIM is NOT CONDEMNED: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the NAME of the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD." Note: If you do not know where you will immediately go if you died right now then YOU DENY that all your sins are forgiven by GOD's grace through faith in CHRIST Who gave HIS life in your place for the forgiveness of all your sins on the cross because the penalty for sin is death and YOU DENY that you have ETERNAL and EVERLASTING LIFE and YOU DENY that you are NOT CONDEMNED as CHRIST said above, therefore YOU DENY CHRIST. Any faith that says you, as a true believer in CHRIST, cannot know if you will immediately go to Heaven upon death is a false faith that depends on works whereas a true believer is saved by grace through faith and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).
Lennox makes a good philosophical argument. (He does something similar with creation) Where is the supporting scripture? People throw around the term free-will a lot but few know what it means. Arminians take it to mean that they can choose God. In a sentence, free-will means that you will happily choose according to your nature. If it is the old man, you chose according to the old man. IF it is the new man of the spirit, you choose according to the new nature. Read Luther's Bondage of the will. I can't give the subject the attention it deserves in a comments section. btw I like Lennox. I just think he is wrong on this one.
“there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one”. The only free will you have is within a prison of your fallen nature
I honestly do not understand how John Lennox hasn't been interviewed on this channel yet! He's literally written the seminal thesis on sound provisionistic exegesis and theology.
The Bible says that we are dead in our sins now the last time I looked the person that was dead could not do anything and the Bible says that the natural man can not understand the things of God and it also says that there is none that seeks after God so according to my understanding of the word of God unless God does a work in me I will not nor can I choose Him I'm humbled that God would choose me and I'm thankful because I most likely would not have chosen Him because man loves his sin and when God made me alive He drew me to Him self and then I was able to see my need for Him. 😊😊
🔸"The Bible says we are dead in our sins..." True. 🔸"...the last time I looked the person that was dead could not do anything..." Well, if you're going to take "dead in sins" to that super literal conclusion, dead people also can't sin. When was the last time you saw a dead guy tell a lie? 🔸"...the Bible says the natural man cannot understand the things of God..." You're talking about the Calvinistic "proof-text" 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul isn't talking about lost people not being able to respond to the Gospel. Paul is talking to saved people who are carnal and not mature enough to hear the wisdom being expressed as a mystery. Seriously, go back and read 1 Corinthians 2:14, *keep reading* into the next chapter (remember, the original text was not split up into chapters and verses, it's one continuous conversation), and apply that Calvinistic interpretation of 1 Corinthians 2:14 and apply it to 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. How does it sound? 🔸"...it also says there is none that seeks after God..." You're talking about Romans 3:10-18. Ignoring the fact there are plenty of places in Scripture that talk about men seeking God (like Psalm 34:10), this comment is already long, so what I'll just say about those verses for now is: context, context, context. Also, at the end of the day, even if "no one" seeks after God, you know the solution to that? Take God to man! (Romans 10:14-17) 🔸"...unless God does a work in me I will not nor can I choose Him..." "Unless God does a work in me...", well what kind of *work* do you think God has to do, exactly?
Some 60-80+ verses in the Bible are about man seeking God. Obviously, "no man seeks after God" does not mean that no one seeks God under any circumstance. Without the interventiom of God the Holy Spirit, we do not. But Jesus said that if He was lifted up from the earth, He would draw all men to Himself. Jesus went to the cross; He draws all people to Himself.
Deuteronomy 4:29 KJV - But *if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.* Psalm 9:10 KJV - And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: *for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.* Psalm 22:26 KJV - The meek shall eat and be satisfied: *they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.* Psalm 24:6 KJV - *This is the generation of them that seek him,* that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah. Psalm 27:8 KJV - *When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.* Psalm 34:10 KJV - The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: *but they that seek the LORD* shall not want any good thing. Psalm 40:16 KJV - *Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.* Psalm 63:1 KJV - A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. *O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;* Psalm 69:32 KJV - *The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.*
This scripture humbles me. Knowing I am told that God from the beginning chose me for salvation. Thank you, God. II Thessalonians 2:13-14 NKJV [13] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because *God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,* [14] to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@jayrodriguez84 I don't think that verse says what you think it says! Notice what is says that salvation is "through"..... BELIEF in the truth! (and the Holy Spirit's sanctification). God chooses you to salvation THROUGH your belief in the truth, the gospel truth. It doesn't say he chooses you to salvation apart from that or preceeding that. Important distinction! All who believe the truth are then given ("chosen for") salvation. That verse says precisely the OPPOSITE of what Calvinism teaches! I hope that offers some useful clarification and something to think about my friend. God bless!
@topfueljunkie100 He chose us from the BEGINNING. BEGINNING OF WHAT? THROUGH in how He chose us. Two ways ; 1. Belief in the truth 2. Sanctification BY the Spirit Belief in the truth does not = Belief in the gospel. Do you know how I know that? Because it then says TO WHICH. TO is preposition indicating a directional movement. After being chosen we are then called. We are NOT chosen when we believe the gospel. Our Belief in the gospel is a result of believing in the truth, which is determined by God from the beginning, the beginning being before we believe/justified. If you omit the word TO WHICH which you are clearly doing, then we wouldn't know which comes first. We are chosen, called, justified. And of course, that matches Romans 8:29-30. *SPEAK THE TRUTH*
@@jayrodriguez84 I'm not omitting the "to which" in some nefarious way as you seem to be implying, I just didn't feel the need to talk about it because it simply reinforces my original point! Paul actually strengthens the point I was making that we are chosen for salvation *_through_* belief in the truth and we were called to that salvation *_"by our gospel"_* ! So yes, the gospel was preached, and those who believed in the truth of that gospel were then chosen for salvation. That's precisely what those verses say. So I maintain that the truth is indeed the gospel as Paul goes on to directly say just that, that's the entire context of what he's talking about. I don't know how you can say it's not. It's a very simple formula the way it's written : God chose those of us who believe the truth and are sanctified by the spirit to salvation. We were called to that salvation through the preaching of the gospel. We are called and then we respond to that calling. If we respond to that calling by believing, God then grants us salvation as he has, from the beginning, chosen all who believe to receive salvation. So we believed the truth of the gospel and God then chose us (those of us who believe) for salvation. That is literally the simple gospel. We mustn't overcomplicate it as Paul warned in Galatians 1! Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, *_that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life._* "
I love John Lennox. I bought his books and I have been reading them gaining a great understanding. There is one book that especially stands out " Gunning for God". However, on this topic, I disagree with him. It is God who opens our spiritual eyes and causes us to hear or see His plan of Salvation. Red Isaiah 29:18 " And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness."Unless God does His work of saving, man is dead in the water.
I don't see that with Judas as well as many others. Not much of a capacity to love in terms of salvation. On top of that, we are told he never believed from the beginning. If you look at the capacity to love and the history of humanity, it may lead you to delete this comment.
@jayrodriguez84 Judas had a choice. We have a sin nature which means we are predisposed to sin choices but that doesn't mean we don't have choice. As to love. The very word contains choice. You can't have love without choice. It's a married bachelor, a one ended stick....a square circle.
@filmscorelife4225 Judas chose based on what he believed, which was already determined before he came into this world. Jesus was presented with a choice, yet there was no possibility for Him to sin.
@filmscorelife4225 There was no possibility. He was foreodrained before the foundation of the world. By saying that, I can see that you don't believe in truth.
First off, I hate labels. After many years being in the Arminianism camp, I now consider Calvinism to be the most biblical for many reasons. RC Sproul and John MacArthur give the best defense of the doctrine and can refute the points by Mr. Lennox better than I. However, having said that, it is important that we not allow our differences to divide us as Christ unites us as one in Him.
The definition of free will is acting on your greatest inclination at the moment. If we were born at enmity with God, when would choosing God be our greatest inclination without change in our heart?
I'm not that much younger than John Lennox, yet I just love him as I would a GRANDFATHER! All my grandparents were gone by the time I was 16. And for the last several years of my longest-surviving Grandpa he had lost a lot of his faculties. I have several on-line teachers and preachers I truly admire and respect, but none hold an actual place in my heart like John. When I listen to him, I actually feel like I'm listening to my grandfather. He was a deeply devout man, studied the Bible profoundly, including the Latin Roman Vulgate, and shared so many views with John. I love the idea of calling myself a "Provisionalist." It's just about perfect. When predetermination is looked at, I believe that God, being bigger than our space and time, can SEE the decisions we FREELY make before we make them, and has shaped our paths. Self-determination is the only way God would make his creation, his image bearers. It's a very fine balance, but with God, it's a truly perfect plan.
Really? That’s a feeling not a fact. My experience is exactly the opposite. My experience is that non-Calvinists generally do not know scripture or even believe much of it.
@@commentatorgunk Because people who disagree with Calvinism don't know or study scripture? 🙄 Seriously. I write a lot of scripture upon my heart and know all the major Calvinist out of context prooftexts also. Psalm 119:11-16. So please tell me how non Calvinists don't know scripture simply because we disagree with your interpretations thereof? SMH
@commentatorgunk You claiming people don't believe scripture simply because we disagree with your interpretations of scripture is absolutely absurd. It doesn't take much to prove your ridiculous claim wrong either. I believe every single Word of God to be true so please tell me how I don't believe the Bible. Here's some verses off the top of my head because I don't believe the Bible right? Psalm 12:6-7, 1 Peter 1:24-25, Matthew 4:4, John 17:17, Psalm 119:89 & 140, Isaiah 40:8, Proverbs 30:5-6, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Deuteronomy 4:2, and Revelation 22:18-19. Because I don't believe God's Word right? Your clown shoes are showing. 🤡
@@commentatorgunk Calvinists don' even understand the Gospel. They all preach works - nonstop while at the same time yelling "it is all grace through faith". Calvinists are a confused bunch.
Question: What if a person “thinks” they were a Christian for 30-40 years and then realizes that maybe they weren’t? Can they still turn to God? What about the verses, you can only come to God if he calls, He will have compassion and mercy on who He wills?
The real question would be "Why does that individual think that they were never sealed unto the day of redemption." They were either self decieved all along (very possible), or they truly believed years ago and have struggled with their flesh and as a result, they think that no one who is "elect of God before the foundation of the world could possibly do what I have done." We are still bound to this flesh on this side of the bodily resurrection. I personally bought into the teachings of some prominent Calvinistic Pastors and then fell into sin. For the first time in my saved life, I doubted my salvation based on their preaching and contemplated suicide. Praise be to God, I came to my senses, revisited the scriptures while ignoring what any man had to say, and quickly realized just how deceptive certain theologies are. Not just Calvinism, but countless others. Well meaning men can lead people astray without ill intent. It happens all of the time because we are in the flesh and our adversary is far more clever than most even realize.
"Can they still turn to God? Absolutely they can. If they truly were never saved and have come to realize that they have lived a lie within themselves, then Christ will certainly not turn away anyone who is willing to place their belief and trust in Him and his righteousness. If they were saved 30-40 years ago and have strayed after the lusts of their flesh and doubt their salvation, then when they yield to the Holy Spirit and a re convicted of their sins against a Holy Father, then again, the Father anxiously awaits them and does not deny them sonship. Think of the prodigal son in that scenario. God is so long-suffering, gracious, loving and wishing that none should perish. I hope this helps. God bless you and may our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Sometimes, satan will try to convince you that you aren’t saved even when you are. If you weren’t truly saved, God’s arms are always open to receive you.
@kgar5String And what say you to John 12:32 KJV: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" Does all not mean all? Also, the Apostles in Acts 11:18 make it very clear that all of the Gentiles can repent and be saved: "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. It ended with a period and not a question mark; meaning it is definitive. Notice that they did not place any limitation whatsoever on it. Furthermore, in 2 Peter 2:1 we must take the word of God as it stands and accept the fact that He purchased all men. The debt has been paid and it is the unwilling sinner who rejects the ransom payment. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. All throughout scripture we read where God desires that none be lost, so why should we take John 6:44 and build an entire theological construct around it when so many other passages point to the fact that the father does indeed draw all men and it is the created that denies the Creator and not the other way around?
If man was not give a free will, there would have only been one tree in the Garden of Eden. The specific trees identified are The Tree of Life, and The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (the Tree of Death). The dichotomy is not Good and Evil, it is Life and Death. Plan A is that man would eat from the Tree of Life and receive eternal life (the life of God). But man chose Plan B. God provided for that choice with "the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world."
@@RenardGarzaro There were 2 trees identified. Adam was warned not not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil or he would die. But it was left up to Adam to decide to obey or not to obey. He had a free will and he had a choice. Nevertheless, God made provision for if Adam chose wrongly because the "Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world." All mankind was locked up in sin and death, but now we can make a choice to be transferred out of the authority of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of God's love by believing into Him.We have a free will and a choice. Also, Joshua said, "I set before you today, life and death. Choose life. As for me and my house, we choose life. I don't have a Bible handy right now or I'd give you the verses, but they're easy to look up, or I can give them later if you like.
Are we not called to live in unity? Do we not all follow and worship the same God who performed the same signs and wonders so many years ago? Do we not all worship the same Jesus who died for our sins on the cross, who rose again to prove that He was God, and continues to live and reign in the heavens? Do we not worship the same God and hold to the same central Christian beliefs (dogma)? Whether Calvinists are right or wrong and these many issues it does not take away their rightness in the central Christian beliefs that Jesus was God, the belief in the atonement and resurrection, the belief in the Holy Spirit and God the Father, the belief in the trinity, etc. It is these central beliefs that surround the life of Jesus that make up the core values and beliefs of Christianity, the ones that everyone holds to (dogma). Certainly, a brand new born-again Christian may not know everything true of the Christian faith, yet they are saved because of the belief in Christ Jesus of which Dogma surrounds. So, despite the disagreements with Calvinists, let us not refer to them as heretics or not spirit-filled. Instead, let us have unity with them. That is not to say we should not sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron, but to have productive arguments that edify both sides. Let us be able to argue over these issues but still remain focused on dogma, on Jesus who died for our sins and rose from the dead defeating death. Let us not refer to Calvinists as heretics for they are Christian’s and hold to dogma. Just as a new-born-again Christian is saved, who can be so wrong about everything, so too can Calvinists certainly be saved if indeed they are wrong in many non-dogma respects. Let us live in unity and edify each other, not call each other heretics, and focus on dogma which makes up the core of Christianity. I understand many are not calling Calvinists heretics, but for those that are, let us live in unity despite our beliefs in free will, among many other non-dogma doctrines.
If I can read the Bible and decide what is Christianity to me, who can say I am wrong. This is the heart of the matter. Is the Bible open to interpretation, or it if fixed from the start?
@@RenardGarzaro God wills that all men be saved- and we know that salvation is by grace through faith. We also know that God can’t Will something that is impossible, so everyone has been given or has the opportunity to receive saving grace
Sorry your wrong. God does NOT provide every man woman and child with sufficient grace to choose him, the is what’s call common grace which is unbiblical and also a Roman Catholic Hersey.
@@Atomic568 I don’t know if you read my last post but I believe I’ve shown that it’s biblical. Why is your position anymore biblical than what I’ve laid out?
John, The truth is that the scripture says that man has a free will and that God has a predetermined plan. Finite human minds cannot reconcile these ideas, but ALL scripture (even Romans 8 and 9, Eph 1 and 2, etc.) is inspired - even if a human brain cannot understand it.
Pretty sure that’s why Is. 55 says: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
The truth in scripture is, that Jesus said, he will draw all men unto him: John 12:32 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Thank you God. We need more and more servants exposing this very corrupt doctrine. Calvinism is a plague. End times. We need to return urgently to the true, simple and powerful gospel.
I will be taking a transcript if this, it is rock solid reasoning based on evidence partnering with faith to discuss our Christian faith and the importance, declaration and promise of the Word with non-believers or doubting believers. I will even use this to help explain it to my children, they are smarter than we think and I believe I can use the Word and words of fellow Christians to overcome youthful doubt and rebellion. Thank you, God for this video and thank you to the producer who I believe added incredible value to John Lennox's edited presentation!
"I believe I can use the Word and words of fellow Christians to overcome youthful doubt and rebellion." And if you can't, what then? If your child grows up an atheist like me, how will you deal with it since they are completely in control and you explained it to them? It drove my dear mother crazy...literally...as she woke up night after night imagining her son burning in hell because of his atheism. How will you deal with it? Not even God could prevent an angels rebellion.
@kgar5String Yes, to God goes all the glory always! It seems like you are saying nobody should even put a Bible before someone else, nobody should speak of it. This is simply not true. Jesus commanded to go make disciples. You are doing the work Jesus asked you to do by taking actions to help spread the gospel by your tongue, your sponsorship of other Christians, and how you live your life.
On justice: yes against my enemies i want justice....BUT when i think of all the things I've done in the sight of God i cry out for MERCY, not justice, therefore how could i demand justice for my enemies when for myself i ask for mercy?? Thankyou Jesus for what He did for ALL of us on the cross, and his authority promise through His resurrection.
Good point, I believe justice is referring to judgement that is only done by our Savior, not us. We want a merciful God for ourselves and others, but ultimately if that enemy has chosen to deny God than we want our Savior to judge, to provide justice, without the Savior's justice or judgement we are all truly lost, which makes no sense as he quoted CS Lewis regarding hunger etc. I hope that makes sense!
But you still have to force yourself to resist this tendency to judge, right? Because it is human nature. And yet it is that very tendency that is the cornerstone of one of the key arguments for God..ie our moral intuition that says there is a right and wrong in the world and allows us to identify when someone is doing wrong.
The problem is we are spiritually dead and cannot understand our need for salvation apart from the sovereign intervention of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said apart from me you can do Nothing.
@@DEPTRON7 Yeah I understand that perspective my friend. In my view we are not so dead so as to be unable to respond to the Gospel, which is the power of God to be saved as the Word of God says. If we are so dead we can’t even respond, that response can’t be libertarian (true, genuine) free will. I genuinely don’t see how that is ‘stealing’ Gods glory or sovereignty at all. That doesn’t make us worthy or holy or less wretched at all. It’s still 100% Gods love and grace and mercy. I know we see it differently no problem I’d share the great love of Christ with those who don’t know Christ anytime.
I don't know why I got this clip in my recommendation but I decided to watch it and boy did I struggled to hear it until the end and that's because of the mockery of your caricaturisation of the reformed position. If you want to argue against a theological position at least get that position right and don't refer to it with your preconceived clichés you get off the internet. Second, you shouldn't get your theology from C.S.Lewis as he wasn't either a theologist nor a scholar of the Scriptures. Thirdly, I love Dr. Lennox and I'd love to talk to him and explain to him these concepts that he explained so twistedly about free will and morality. He received some easy questions though and I really don't understand why people over complicate these things while the Bible is so clear. Implying that God took a risk while stating that He is Sovereign over His creation is kinda confusing and contradictory! Dr. Lennox's theology is kind of a mix between Pelagianism and Open Theism which is a dangerous place to be! "Couldn't God make...?" Of course He *COULDN'T* !! What do you mean by "of course He Could"?? God being all powerful does not mean He can do EVERYTHING! Because there's a lot of things He Can't! He can't lie, He can't not be God, He can't create another God, He can't make a square circle, He can't not be God! He couldn't create a world of robots (such a pity caricaturisation of the reformed position!) Because that way He Couldn't have displayed His Attributes! He can't show Mercy, Justice, Grace or even Love without a sinner, without the trespassing of the Law! If you go to Peter you see that God provided the Lamb BEFORE the foundation of the world. Why a Lamb? There's no Law given yet, no propitiation asked yet, not even a World formed yet and He Provided a Lamb for The Sacrifice?? The so-called freewill implies the existence of a PERFECTLY NEUTRAL Agent so that the actual "free choosing" can take place. There's no such thing! Adam and Eve did have a free will BUT they've lost it and not because God took that away so they couldn't choose anymore but because their nature was CORRUPTED by Sin (farewell neutrality!). You cannot choose God which is Holy from a corrupted sinful heart!! (Yeah, you can choose some made up god that gives you hope and money and salvation from the mess you're in, but that god doesn't exist and the preacher that told you that will be held accountable!) Of course the Bible speaks about the choosing of God and Salvation! Not about "should I go to the bathroom or not? Am I predestined to drink this soda or not?" ! That's a mockery to the intelligence of the human that argues with you. Galatians 4:9 NKJV [9] But now after you have known God, *or rather are known by God,* how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? I Thessalonians 1:4 NKJV [4] knowing, beloved brethren, *your election by God.* The Salvation is determined by the Election BY GOD or us be known BY God not the other way around. I know nobody will read this and the ones that does will read it with a preconceived mind already but that's ok, the ones that must hear will hear! He calls His Sheep! His sheep *will* hear! If you don't, is because you're not His Sheep!! John 10:26-29 NKJV [26] But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. [27] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [28] And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. [29] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. It's not because of you but because He called you (as God called Adam after the fall!! It was not Adam seeking, he was in fact hiding! It was God seeking the sinner! It was God providing clothes for the naked!),He gave you eternal life and NOTHING can snatch you out of His Hand! It's not you(because you're a created being) it's Him! Anything that begins with "Me" and "I" is by definition excluding *"BUT GOD"*
Thank you so much for your work Leighton! I've been wrestling with some passages that Calvinists point to as supporting Calvinism, and your videos have been very helpful.
God has done everything necessary to clear the way so that anyone can come and receive the salvation that He has provided through His Son’s death, burial and resurrection.
I was a Calvinist for 10 years. I was a member of a RCA Church. One day it hit me that "Calvinistic theology" Is a manmade religion. I know to many it's logical, makes sense and all the pieces of the puzzle fit. But What many don't realize. It's logical and makes sense. Because it's manmade. It's very logical to man. So, yes I bailed on Calvinism and the RCA Church and then spent the next 10 years searching in a desert to find Christ and I eventually did and I'm much better off. Each person is on their own journey, I know that. But for me. I would never go back to a Reformed/Calvinistic theology.
I think the best demonstration for free will is when Jesus allowed for the children to come to him and even scolded his apostles when they banned the kids. The kids want to go to him freely, no one was forcing them, especially Jesus, to come to him they were even being obstructed but Jesus allowed them to come to him anyway. We can't enter the kingdom unless we become like those children.
He was until he was gift wrapped by James White in their famous Romans 9 debate. Looked like the Dallas Cowboys in this year's playoff against the Packers.
@@philipbolin6776 There is a prophet on the streets of Dallas who is prophesying that the last event before the Second Coming is the Cowboys winning a final Super Bowl.
John Lennox is a modern day scientist/philosopher/Chrisitan apologist. He is a thinking person, one whom I have great respect for his ability to simplify and express deep thoughts. I have great appreciation for his courage to publically share his thoughts that mankind has very limited knowledge about the world, and that none of us really know the truth about what we "think" we know about life, despite our assurances that we do. Bottom line is this, do we choose to live by faith or knowledge? Ego [pride] exists only by the knowledge of good and evil, but life exists only in God. Our Faith in God is manifested in our lives by our consciousness listening for, and then acting upon, God's voice [His word] within us directing our path, while the ego sideof us is running as fast as it can to obtain as much knowledge as possible before it dies, trying to forestall its enevitable demise.
As a Chinese
I became a Christian after 7 years of living & rejecting Christ in US, not because I had a free will to choose, but because the Father drove me to His only Son in that night and then I began to experience the love of Christ & the love Christian brothers/sisters.
Btw, it took me many years of learning the providence and the holiness of God.!
God bless & thank you!
Praise God
@@tkmac7802 Amen 🙏 A Ku be njalo.
@@tkmac7802
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God showed you the way, and you chose to accept it, praise God! You could have chosen not to accept, just like tons of people do all the time.
God can open our eyes, but the choice is still ours to believe and trust what He shows us.
You are blessed, and may you continue to be!
yes you have free will.
@@tkmac7802 Jesus came to seek and save the lost. We were all lost. He is not willing that any should perish
Big fan of John Lennox. The way he describes the depth and vastness of our Creator, and His love toward all humans ... it's a beautiful thing to sit and truly grasp. God bless you guys
Now do the ECT/annihilation part.
@@christianuniversalist
Sure.
Justice demands just that.
@@christianuniversalist Why complicate it? Let’s just be kind to one another.
God bless brother Lennox
@@matthewdyer2926 Yes… but they exercised their free will and they decided not to love Him. He won’t force anyone… He gives them up to whatever they want. They don’t want Him… They don’t get Him.
I don’t just love John Lennox, I respect the man’s grasp on the character and attributes of God!
Yet he cant provide evidence for a god , which make him senile and a liar.
@@ossiedunstan4419 provide evidence that there cannot be an unseen God. CAN NOT……
With references please.
@@ossiedunstan4419can you show a blind person what a shadow is? If you can't see evidence of God's existence why not just accept it if it doesn't cause you problems?
@@ossiedunstan4419
There are many, many people who believe in God and who trust Him and His Word. Because they don't work hard to produce proof of His existence doesn't mean they are senile or liars.
PS, There is EVIDENCE of God's existence, which is not the same thing as "proof."
YOU can't produce proof that God DOESN'T exist. Does that make you senile and a liar? Just askin'😂😂
No sorry. There is no such thing as "free will". Man cannot make any choice or decision without the dominating effect of some underlying cause and God controls all causes.
I think it’s important to remember a few things when considering the so called Calvinist view.
1. Calvinists believe Adam and Eve’s free will situation was different than ours. They were free to obey or sin. Since then Calvinists believe the consequences of sin corrupted everything including our will. Now we make free and real choices but pre-regeneration, we are incapable of choosing not to sin.
2. A second thing I would ask to be considered is our condition in the eternal state. We will be perfectly free to choose only what is in accordance with God’s will and we will not sin. Does Leighton believe we will be capable of sinning? Will we be moral “robots” then? I bet his answer is we will not be robots. So a situation exists where we agree that we will be perfectly free to choose but sin will not be an option.
3. God is sovereign over our wills in such a way that our choices are still free. Consider how we pray for someone’s salvation. We are asking God to effectively interfere with what they will such that they change their will from unbelief to belief.
Your off the mark here! God has never changed anyone's will! He has intervened to help a person make a right choice. When we pray for the salvation of someone God will intervene to bring them to the right state of mind to make that choice, but the decision is with man! The bible is full of such examples. Can men sin in heaven?of course they could! But they will not, He that is born of God sineth not 1Jn3:9. Sin is selfishness! A man must die to self to partake of Christ. God is Love, and we know, There is no law against love Gal5:22-23
@@stephen2975Unless God changes your will you cannot be saved.
@@DEPTRON7 where do you get the idea from? It's not in the bible!
@@DEPTRON7 Jesus reveals Himself to you by His Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God reveals to you where you stand before God and that the wrath of God is upon you, but also reveals that Jesus took your sin upon Himself at Calvary and shed His blood to wash your sun away and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. When I accepted that truth, I was no longer under the wrath of God because Jesus took the wrath that was destined for me because of my sin upon Himself. That’s love! I repented of my sin, gave it all to Jesus, asked Him to wash me in His precious blood and asked Him into my life and was born again. I became a new creation there and then and was on my way to heaven-all because of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary for me. I did this not because God changed my will, but because the Lord spoke to me. I believed Him and chose to give my life to Him. I also believe tin pre destination. That’s a big discussion and a mystery. Suffice to say that we are not meant to know all things here. We see through a glass darkly. One day we shall know even as we are known. That’s what the Word of God says and thats enough for me. The Lord has shown me where I stood before Him and revealed to me the answer to my sinful state. I thank Him everyday for His grace and mercy and salvation. He truly is a wonderful God and He is my Saviour!
Conversion or regeneration comes first then faith. We have the freedom to choose chocolate over vanilla or Susie as a wife rather than Dorthy but with God we are dead in our sins not sick. We can't want to. Its our will that's broken. The book of Romans is Paul's summa theologic. All of theology is in that epistle. It plainly states that no one seeks after God, There are none that do good, not not one. The salvation of man is a sovereign choice of God. Paul knew the jews would hate that doctrine and he was ready for them. Read Chapter 9 in Romans. Who are you oh man to tell the Potter how anything is done. @@stephen2975
John Lennox is AMAZING!! So glad you are featuring him Leighton!!
My father was born in Antrim county, North Ireland and I was also born in a Christian home such as John Lennox. His story is so interesting as my life was with the beauty of my father and Dr. Lennox.
Your father was born in Northern* Ireland
It is always good to hear from brilliant men like John Lennox. He is one of the best Apologists of our time. At the same time I don't agree that the Bible teaches both free will as well as the concept of the sovereignty of God, as defined by Calvinists. The Bible definitely teaches the concept of the sovereignty of God, but it does not mean meticulous control, and it doesn't absolve human responsibility. There is only conflict or contradiction between the two positions if the word "sovereignty" is defined as meticulous control, which is what Calvinism teaches. I feel that people should stop saying that the Bible teaches both positions because while free will is certainly found througout the Bible, most of the time what they mean by both positions are taught is that the Calvinistic definition of the word sovereign is also taught in the Bible, and it clearly isn't. It is not a matter of both positions being in the Bible and we just don't know how to harmonize the two. That's simply not true. All throughout the Bible we see God relinquishing control of things and holding man responsible for what He entrusted them with doing or accomplishing. What we don't see is God controlling absolutely everything all the time.
You seem to be a Deist
Sorry, God is always in control and everyone works towards his glory. That doesn't mean we don't make choices, but in the end, it'll work as he sees fit
Calvin was influenced by Aristotle and believed that God is subject to time. But God is "I am" - always in the present and entirely outside time - "knowing the end from the beginning".
@@davidelliott8544 You need to read Calvin's Institutes.
We are not called to be apologists. The apostle Paul was an intelligent, learned man as well, and yet he told the Corinthians "I did not come [to you] with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power". The success of the gospel does not depend on it's defense by intelligent men, but on it's being received by those who are willing to receive the foolish message, since "the message of the gospel is foolishness" (1 Cor 1:18). Man's philosophy about free-will, etc. has nothing to do with promoting the faith.
If God is omniscient, then he must know what you choose before you choose. By definition, this is true. I've heard it put that you still choose with free will, God just knew what you'd choose. May you be blessed in your journey with Christ.
The description of God as being omniscient is man’s attempt to provide a description for a being that is so great we cannot begin to understand His ways… It is silly to think we can put labels and restrictions on God through our poor attempts to describe His magnificence and glory…
We should have figured this out from the whole “I Am that I Am…” answer God gave to Moses. 😉😉😉
This is much too simplistic of an answer unless you can understand the fact that time itself is a construct. So instead of saying “nice to meet you” to someone, you should really shake their hand and say, “we always met.” It is clear when you read the prophets that man has free will in which God allows His people to choose Himself, which brings Him joy, or other gods and idols, which brings Him pain and jealousy. It is also clear that He has sovereignty in regards to what will happen in the future as well, in terms of the revealing of Christ and other things to come. Calvinism reduces humanity to programmed robots, which is clearly not the intention of scripture. Free will is certainly true, but cannot explain what it would be like to exist outside of time itself.
@@tobennachekwa736 amen brother. If all the ocean were ink and the sky a scroll, it would still be insufficient to describe God and His will. Have a blessed life
If you choose, where does grace fit in? If I decide and choose God, then it's my worst not grace?
@@andrewm8610 When we believe, that is, when we exercise faith, God responds with grace. For it is written: we are saved by grace and that through faith. It is the gift of God that we can be saved by faith and not by works. Faith is not a work. You simply believe. Hallelujah!
To really love someone, there must be the ability to choose to “not love” someone.
Amen
Do you love your children unconditionally?
@@brandonvonbo9708 loving unconditionally is a choice.
@@keithsturgill5152 so you could choose to not love your children?
Yes
John Lennox is among the best carriers of the truth, the word of God
Lol
John Lennox is a very persuasive speaker, but "among the best carriers of the truth, the word of God", seems unlikely:
1) John suggests that "free-will" is a central Biblical concept. Yet, he fails to explain why the noun "free-will" cannot be found anywhere within The Bible. Only the adjective can be found.
2) "Free-will", as John describes it, is incompatible with the absolute sovereignty of God (1Cor 12:6, Eph 1:11 NASB, but clearest in the Greek text). Moreover, If God did not have absolute sovereignty over all things, how could He keep all His promises within a world filled with 8 billion rebellious, hostile sinners.
3) "Free will" suggests a randomness of choice, which is incompatible with a Law-giving Law-abiding God. If God does not have "free-will", how likely would creatures, made in His image, have "free-will"?
4) While we do have wills and do make choices, our wills are not "free" in the manner that John describes. Instead, our wills are slaves of our desires. If our will was completely free and unconstrained, we would make decisions contrary to our desires ~50% of the time....which even the mentally ill don't do.
5) The reality seems closer to our wills being constrained by our desires, which are, in turn, influenced by forces, which are more powerful than we, and usually beyond our control. Otherwise, our wills would always prevail, and we would be like God.
For a supposedly "deep thinker", John falls woefully short and inconsistent with reality of his own experience and logic. "Free-will" appears to be a theological construct to support the ability of anyone to come to Jesus, whenever they chose, as well as to save themselves from the wrath of God, by their own choices, both of which, are contradicted by the Bible, since:
A) No one is able to come to Jesus unless the Father drags him (Jn 6:44, literal Greek text).
B) The saved are saved by grace alone, lest anyone might boast (Eph 2:8-9).....about their own contributions.
@@alanlietzke5738 I agree with your opening comment, but I disagree with your premise that having free will takes away the sovereignty of God. His sovereignty means he can allow us to have free will, but He can override our free will whenever He chooses to do so. God is still in control, so His will can override ours. The bible doesn't need to use the term "free will" to describe the premise of what free will means, so I don't see that as a valid argument personally. I think you used your free will when you typed your previous comment, or did God make you type it word for word exactly the way you did at the exact time your did? I think God knew you were going to do it, but I also believe He allowed you to do it... because He is sovereign and can allow what he chooses to allow.
@@mjmason751) One correction: I wrote, ""Free-will".... is incompatible with the absolute sovereignty of God ", NOT "takes away the sovereignty of God". Nothing can take away the sovereignty of God. God is omnipotent.
2) Our wills are captive to our strongest desires, thus, not free. Otherwise, we would randomly act contrary to our strongest desires. Even the mentally ill don't act like that.
3) Everyone is either a bond-slave to Satan (Jn 8:44, 2Cor 4:4) or a bond-slave to God (1Pet 2:16). If a slave does not do the will of his master, the master "tightens the screws", until the slave desires to do what the Master desires. Moreover, God disciplines and chastises every son whom He receives (Heb 12:6).
4) "God works all things according to the counsel of His will (Eph 1:11). "All things", means all things, including the wills and desires of 8 billion sinners, most of whom are hostile to God, unless or until God rebirths them.
@@alanlietzke5738 An adjective because our will is not a "thing", but an action. And our will hobbled to our desires is the entire point of a Saviour
"... but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2nd Peter 3:9
Thank you 😊
With respect look at the word “us” and then reread the intro in the letter to see who the “us” is.
@@judah8811 but how can a saved person perish?
@@ic7481It boils down to the understanding that if we are saved, from what are we saved?
John 8:23-24
He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
Death comes to us only because we have fallen short of God’s glory - His design standard is that mankind should share His glory…
We are saved from death!
Once we are saved, we are saved! We are made fit for heaven.
@@ic7481they can't. John 6:37
The Reformation did not deny free will. Rather, like Scripture, it taught that the fallen humanity "hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation" because mankind is now "dead in sin.." and therefore in need of God's grace.
No no.... Where do you read that we lost all ability to choose and believe in Christ?
Reformation is not the word of God....
@@FrikdikDavid asks, [A]re [there] any who understand, who seek after God" (Psalms 14:12). Paul gives the answer, "There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God (Romans 3:11).
@@FrikdikThe Reformation was built upon the Word of God as a defense to Catholicism which wasn't.
As to a person's ability to choose God/salvation. Let's say for argument sake that everyone has the ability to choose Christ or reject him. OK, but to be given the ability to choose, one must first be given a choice. Jesus said in Matthew 13:23, that the person who ends up getting saved (the good soil) is one that "hears the Word and understands it." Let's put the understanding part aside and just deal with the hearing part for now.
Over 90% of the world's population will die without ever hearing the gospel. Where is the choice for these people? Paul said, "How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard [of]?" People can't choose if they're not given a choice.
Is God limited in his ability to get everyone the gospel so that they can have a "choice"? Certainly not! He can send Moses, Paul, Peter, angels, etc., to earth to preach to every human being alive today. He can write the gospel in the sky in every language, or drop gospel tracts out of heaven in everyone's language. The problem isn't that God can't reach everyone with the gospel so they can make a choice; He can easily do this, but He doesn't, why? That's His sovereign choice not to. He is the only one who actually chooses in regards to salvation.
@@Frikdik why would a God who wishes all to be saved create people knowing they’re created to only end up in hell with no choice of turning to God?
Dr. Lennox is brilliant!! I love listening to him. He's an excellent defender of the faith.
"Defender of the Faith"? "Love God with all you are and have" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" doesn't need defending. It needs living. Of course, most people do prefer to "defend" the Faith rather than live it.
@@grantsmythe8625 projecting?
@@grantsmythe8625 so he's not genuine, so glad you can read the heart. Heck, next time I'm going to a church, I'll make sure I hit you up first🙄
@@grantsmythe8625 well relevance depends on who you ask. According to me, you're irrelevant, but I wouldn't be an arse and say such a thing. Because I'm sure your parents would disagree with me.
@@grantsmythe8625 maybe true, I didn't know them, you or this man. I can only judge myself when it comes to their walk
John Lennox is a legend.
No. John is not legend. John is human and a sinner who loves God and seeks to glorify God in all that he does.
@@genegroover3721
Seriously? Relax dude. You literally just defined what a legend means.
God's Sovereignty is enhanced when He is able to work His will in our world through our free will.
When Jesus was asked “What is the greatest commandment?” He says love the Lord your God…and your neighbor as yourself. So very interesting that THIS is the greatest. God knows this is the BEST, not always natural, but commanded to love. In my heart this says it ALL. He didn’t “program” us Whosoever will….great video, Dr. Flowers.
👍🏻 Funny, the greatest commandment is NOT worship gods sovereignty. Instead it’s LOVE. Calvies hate that truth. It doesn’t compute
The same Jesus said that NO ONE can know the Father unless He wills it so! Mathew 11:27. What about how God wrote our names in His book before the world was made? Why don't anti Calvinists ever have an answer for these?
@@atyt11 "Calvies hate that truth"? What truth do they hate? God commands that we worship Him because He deserves it. We are commanded to love Him even though we can't do it! "We love Him BECAUSE He first loved us"! Remember? He took the first step, otherwise we couldn't love Him.
His will is that none should perish and that all should come to repentance. He doesn’t impose a forced will, what kind of love is that. This is where we find so many that were baptized as babies and yet despise Jesus and the cross. What hinders me from being baptized? If you believe with all your heart you may…..and they went down into the water
@@mattdillon4398 I was being a bit snarky, sorry. I should have said.."calvinism seems to hate the truth"
Can we respond to His love? or do we need to be saved first, then we can be saved right after were saved??
I know, calvinism confuses me too.
The Bible is filled with IF's.
"IF you abide in Me..." Or "IF you confess with your mouth..." Etc....
The word IF alone destroys the chosen for salvation doctrine and stands in complete contrast to the calvinistic interpretation.
One balanced comment was explained to me a few years ago. When we face the cross for salvation the call is 'whosoever will may come', for God is not willing that any should perish.
Then when we get saved + look back to the cross, 'chosen before the foundation of the world', also no one came to God unless they're drawn, and subsequently respond. We have free will to reject the wooing of our heart. It takes His wooing because in our sin we're spiritually dead and cannot understand the spiritual things of God. 'The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God, for they are spiritually discerned'...
I think there's a balance + the extremes of either Calvanism or Arminianism should be avoided. There's merit + blessings in both.
Amen, they coexist in Scripture. Amen!
You guys are making this whole drama of the Bible about man and his abilities. Well it just isn't. It's not about us. We are just creatures created by a Holy Being. Given by One Being to Another Being. Suck it up butter cup. This ain't about you. The whole of Scripture teaches man can't do squat. He's going to smelt a gold calf every time The Being get 5 steps away from him.
That's confused. I held the same position as you, but now wholly reject Arminianism.
For instance, scripture teaches that fallen man is unable...
1). To do anything good: Gen 6:5; Job 15:14-16; Psa 130:3; Psa 143:2; Pro 20:9; Ecc 7:20; Isa 64:6; Jer 13:23; John 3:19; Rom 3:9-12; Jam 3:8; 1John 1:8
2). To believe in God (or come to him): John 6:44; John 6:65; John 8:43-45; John 10:26; John 12:37-4
3). To understand the truth: John 14:17; 1Cor 2:14
4). To seek God: Rom 3:10-11
5). He is blinded and corrupt in his heart: Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8
6). He is captive to sin and Satan: John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19
7). He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil: Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14
You can copy and paste the vs to Bible Gateway
@@lamontfaulkner5090 I absolutely agree. We cannot decide to come to God. A dead thing cannot make itself alive.
I don't think it's Arminian to say "Whosoever will may come" because it's my will or come or not once I'm drawn to God. It all starts with Him but I've freewill to reject as well as accept. Its a set of train tracks. I'm just letting Scripture explain itself, because there's a way to balance whosoever will may come with chosen before the foundation of the world....
God is The Truth therefore all that He says is correct and does not contradict... If I'm making myself clear...
@@cherithcampbell1157 I appreciate your demeanor and willingness to discuss this. Good for you (and me).
1). "I don't think it's Arminian to say "Whosoever will may come...".
A). Whosoever will "MAY" come? What translation is this? I think you are mis-quoting the scripture here.
I. The New living bible and Youngs literal translation (both similar) interpret it closest to the original language"...that everyone who believes in him..." rather than "whosoever will". Neither of these interpretations have anything to do with mans "ability or inibility" to believe, but rather that the ones that DO believe will not perish.
2). "It all starts with Him but I've freewill to reject as well as accept."
A). Noooo, 😀 while you were still dead in your sins and trespasses, you would have NEVER believed and perished! "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is a GIFT of God..." Eph 2:8. Check out Phil 1:29... "For it has been GRANTED TO YOU that for the sake of Christ you should NOT ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM but also suffer for his sake...".
God didn't ask your permission when you were born the first time, neither did He ask a dead person (you) if you wanted to be born the second time. Again... "By grace you have been saved!" 😇 Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha....X infinity!
Hey, I have a serious headache and and backache. Ponder what i've said, and lets follow-up.
I and my wife were in your place. We could see a little of both Armininanism and Calvinism. James White book "The Potters Freedom" is what put it all together for me. 🤯
Have a Great day/night, and lets Kibbitz soon!
Numbers 6:24-26
Lamont 🙏
Dr Lennox is a brilliant scientist who has made his life's work to give all who are interested the wisdom and knowledge that help us become better Christians and go towards the salvation Jesus has promised us. His amazing education and erudition help us from the basics to grow in faith and love for our Creator. A blessed man, how lucky we are to have him today among us!!!!Long life, professor. God bless you!!!
So, if I can choose, how come I can’t make the right choice even when I know what’s best for me?, how do I make myself do what’s right?!.
Accept Christ as Savior and focus on him only.
Paul wrote: O wretched man that I am. Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God-through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:24-25
On free will: As some with ADHD when I take my medication it gives me more ability to make choices. Having experienced the difference between limited choices and more choices, I’m baffled by determinists who say there are no real choices we make. There’s literally a pill I can take that gives me the ability to regulate my attention and where I put my focus.
Why did you write this comment?
@h2s142I think you missed my point? I’m saying there’s a pill that exists for my neurodiverse brain that restores it to more normal function. What this pill does through stimulation is it allows me to focus better and choose where that focus goes. I have biological evidence of us being designed with free will and the ability to choose.
I like how the point of this comment is going to go right over people’s heads.
The comment is trying to show an example of the fact that free will means you have the choice to make any action you want, unlike a preprogrammed robot. And the analogy is that ADHD medication is a drug that relaxes some of the reactive side of the issue.
Free will and choice are to my mind not the same or interchangeable. Since the fall, man has been corrupted and weighed down in every facet of his being. He is not "free." Yes, he has a will and he makes choices, but it is not by nature a "free" will. I prefer to use the word choice.
Im convinced Calvinists have an unhealthy relationship with power. They think "of course he can force people to love him so he does". The mind of a kidnapper. If only you can attain the right amount of power, you will force people to love you.
I think the way Calvinists view the character of God is more the character of Satan.
Of course no compatibilist Calvinist would frame it that way, they wouldn’t say God forces anyone, they would say He changes your nature so that you want to…
@@brandonvonbo9708 Distinction without a difference.
@@ijclnl48 what are you calling “force” and why is there no distinction in regards to God changing one’s nature? Even armininans say God has to change a person’s nature before they can come to faith, they just say that changing of a nature is something that can be resisted
God's sovereignty is TOO offensive. Free will is more good than that.
The more I learn about Calvinism, the more it becomes clear it’s just not a tenable doctrinal stance.
It's a doctrine of demons and distorts the character of God. Many who propagate it don't realize it's evil influence
Nor is it God-honoring.
Indeed. The more I learn, the more untenable it shows itself as a philosophy.
Calvinism continuously collapses under the contradiction of its own inconsistency.
Here’s how you knock down to two pillars of Calvinism: God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
@@jjphank although I do agree with your interpretation of Romans nine through 11 talking about the nation of Israel, you’re ignoring much of what is actually disgusted in Romans nine. Specifically with Jacob and Isa the scripture says before either having been born or doing any bad or good God had determined Jacob I have loved and I have hated. Also the overall context of Romans nine is, if God has chosen Israel then why has the majority of Israel rejected Christ. Paul answers that in saying that just because someone is a descendent of Abraham doesn’t necessarily mean they are part of his Israel. Also Paul says it’s not of him who will nor of him who runs, and what that means is that salvation is not dependent upon human will or human effort. And then Paul, because he knows what he’s actually saying, anticipates people arguing against the immorality of God in choosing some and passing over others and answers that by reminding The reader that God is sovereign, and that means that he is not accountable to any human being or any being in his created universe. And in the first three chapters of Romans Paul establishes the fact that every human being who has ever lived is guilty of sin and deserving of God‘s judgment. So you cannot claim that God is immoral for choosing some and passing over others when everyone is guilty of sin and deserving of judgment according to the standard of the law. I don’t subscribe Calvinism and I don’t know all of the specifics of what Calvinists believe. But the only way to properly interpret the ninth chapter of Romans, and the only way to interpret the fact that God sent Israel into certain villages and told them to kill everyone including men, women, and nursing infantscan only be reconciled that God has chosen some and not others. What choice did those nursing infants that God told the Israelites to kill without mercy have in choosing God?
"For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him to me, and at the Last Day I will cause all such to rise again from the dead." - John 6:44. That was the case for me. I want to give ALL the glory to God. I did nothing on my own, yet I am not a robot. My sin is my sin. My salvation is totally His. We can never fully understand how everything takes place or how EXACTLY God works. The same way we can't fully wrap our finite minds around 1 God in three eternal persons. We can't even wrap our minds around eternal! God does for me what I can't do by myself. At least that's how my heart sees it. I very well could be wrong. This doesn't govern how I should live my life though, or how I should view other people's salvation.
God draws all people unto himself, but he allows people to reject his free will. But to ALL who RECEIVED him, he gave the power to become children of God. God does all of the saving and forgiving, but he doesn't force people to receive him.
Excellent insight. He looks to and fro seeking out whose hearts are toward Him and will draw them to Himself… but as you say, He lays before us a choice to receive or reject. God is love… and love is bounded by free will and choice… He HAD to give us a choice if He wanted love in return… even though the risk is there that He is rejected.
@@richardevans6633 Great point. It's God's will that none should perish. (2 Peter 3:9) Jesus called disciples who said no. (Luke 9:59-62) And if Judas had gone to the cross and hit his knees instead of the to the tree and rope, what do you think Jesus would have said? Judas's story would have been the greatest of all of them. His choice is also our choice.
Funny how you Calvinists become literalists only when it fits your doctrine, but when Scripture says "God so loved the World" - you claim it means something else than what is written.
@@coldcrankinamps You said, "Yes," to God. God did say it for you.
Dr. Lennox is absolutely brilliant. I've seen a few of his talks with students at colleges last year and followed his talks ever since. I've gone deeper in my study in this area, thanks to him. I don't know anything about Calvinism, I just know what scripture says.
if you want to put a man's name to the doctrine of Grace use Paul's.
@@CoffypowellI'm with Peter on this one 🤣..
"Be careful reading Paul's writings has some have twisted them to their own destruction!"....
God has never changed... never will... He showed mercy and Grace in the garden... And never stopped.... What is Grace if not forgiveness for your sins? For that you have to ask. Rituals and traditions cannot buy your way out of condemnation.
(That's the works Paul is talking about)... This is so misunderstood I heard a full the other day say that our "good works" were as filthy rags to God 😭
Cuz he can't read! 🤣
We are saved unto good works!... Some people get saved and instead of ceasing to sin... Like a dog returning to its vomit.. they just keep living the same way... making stupid decisions.
Every parable Jesus spoke denies the idea that "you are not involved in your salvation"
" If you have a little strength "
" Endure to the end "...
I think it was Paul that warned us that the angel of light Lucifer, transformed his ministers into angels of light to deceive... Would not that require a huge number of different Christian religions? 🤣... Yep
@@RenardGarzaro where would you get such a silly idea?... Every word must be believed!... Even the multitudes that say you have to choose and obey...
Oh I found the problem... I quoted the apostle Peter... And apparently his warning has gone unheeded... The twisted doctrines derived from his letters are debunked... in the letters!!!... Perhaps I should have said understood in the context of the whole Bible....and believed...
Some questions for Free-Will" believers:
1) If "Free-Will" is an essential feature of Biblical theology, why is this noun never mentioned in the Bible, while extremely exclusive terms, like "Chosen" (Mt 20:16, 22:14, Eph 1:4) "His People" (Mt 7:21, Lk 1:77, 7:16, Rev 21:3), "His Elect" (Mt 24:31, Mk 13:27, Lk 18:7), "The Elect" (Mt 24:22,24, Mk 13:20,22, Rom 11:7, 3Tim 2:10), "Ekklaysia" (called-out-ones/church) are mentioned in several places?
2) If exclusive,deterministic laws are acceptable, even desirable predictability in daily life, why is it rejected by "Free-will "Arminian believers. Is it not the same God the law-maker of both?
3) Is God being unfair if all are worthy of destruction (Rom 3:10), yet some receive mercy and compassion (Rom 9:15).
4) Is God being unjust if he creates some people as "vessels of wrath, prepared for destruction (Rom 9:22), having mercy on some , while hardening others (Rom 9:18)?
5) Is not the "narrow gate and afflicted way" (Mt 7:13-14), the God-chosen, ridiculed Calvinist one, while the "wide gate and easy way" is the popular, Arminian, "Free-Will" one"
It’s quite simple you can believe in John Calvin’s interpretation of the scriptures and follow him OR, you can follow Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life. Calvinism is prideful, boastful and creates the idea that only Calvinists are God’s chosen people. Calvinism is false doctrine created by “the elect” who preach selective salvation instead of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 🙏🏼
@@chuckdriver8269 I agree it is quite simple:
1) Believe the "narrow gate", salvation by Grace alone (Eph 2:8-9) doctrines within the original God-breathed manuscripts (like the Reformers), or
2) Believe the "wide gate", "broad way" doctrines, as introduced ~100 years later by Jacob Arminius and his followers
which are designed to tickle the ears of those with itching ears (2Tim 4:3-4), with doctrines which promise salvation by doing something that one can subsequently boast about (contrary to Eph 2:9).
The Bible truth is quite simple and clear:
1) Some have been "chosen (by grace alone) to be holy and blameless in Him", from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), and have been predestined into adoptions as sons of God (Eph 1:5).
2) The names of "His Elect" (Mt 24:31, Mk 13:27), "His People" (Mt 1:21, Lk 1:68, 77, 7:16, Heb 10:30, Rev 21:3), "The Elect" (Mk 13:22, Col 3:12, ) have been eternally written into "The Lamb's Book of Life" from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8, 17:8), thousands of years before any of them could do either good or evil (Rom 9:11).
3) these will also be called "Blessed of the Father when they will be invited to inherit a kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Mt 25:34).
4) The works for those who will enter His rest were completed from the foundation of the world (Heb 4:1-9). Nothing else is needed. God does it all from start to (rapture) finish, with glorified, immortal bodies.
@@chuckdriver8269 Is it not prideful that you think that you chose Christ out of your own free will? That you are more sincere than the other man who didn't? You might say that you chose Christ because you recognized your wretched condition. A Calvinist would say that they were so wretched that they couldn't even recognize their wretched condition.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 salvation is a free gift of grace through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ given to all who believe through faith. If you think faith in the promise of salvation through Christ is prideful, then you need to take a long hard look at yourself and pray for guidance.🙏🏼
@@chuckdriver8269 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you" John 15:16
I was free to watch this ! Thanks and blessings from Finland !
A fallen sinner is only free to sin, and totally unable and unwilling to come to Christ.
scripture teaches that fallen man is unable...
1). To do anything good: Gen 6:5; Job 15:14-16; Psa 130:3; Psa 143:2; Pro 20:9; Ecc 7:20; Isa 64:6; Jer 13:23; John 3:19; Rom 3:9-12; Jam 3:8; 1John 1:8
2). To believe in God (or come to him): John 6:44; John 6:65; John 8:43-45; John 10:26; John 12:37-4
3). To understand the truth: John 14:17; 1Cor 2:14
4). To seek God: Rom 3:10-11
5). He is blinded and corrupt in his heart: Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8
6). He is captive to sin and Satan: John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19
7). He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil: Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14
You can copy and paste the vs to Bible Gateway
@@lamontfaulkner5090 Nope. Prodical son, Luke 15:17 came to his sences and went back to his Father. He desided by himself.
@@Yaas_ok123 It's a parable isn't it.
@@lamontfaulkner5090 Shows principle of our responsibility in relationship with God. If not real choices, then no respossibility. Whole mess is for Augustine. He brought pagan doctrines to christianity. He spent 10 years in heresies before faith. Check Soteriology101 Ali Bonner interview(Cambridge historian). Reformers later picked up those errors.
@@lamontfaulkner5090Meant to teach people that one can come back to the Father. Yes, and Jesus often spoke in parables.
I guess these guys have never read Romans 3:11 or Luther's "The Bondage of the Will". We have free will to love, to choose what socks we'll wear, what school we will go to, etc., but our will is tainted by our sin. If we can choose God we are equal partners with God. Making us little gods. It demeans or savior's work on the cross. It diminishes our gratitude of God's undeserved amazing Grace. Why would we need a savior if we have a choice in our salvation?
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:3-4
He is so fantastic!
Great to hear John Lennox over and over again, I can see the holy spirit is with him...
Thank you Leighton and John for helping to exalt man and deal God a bit of humble pie! When it comes to salvation God is NOT sovereign! MAN is sovereign, he is on the throne! Man decides, by his amazing good heart and free will whether he will be saved or not and God is POWERLESS to stop him! Yes, God desires for all men to be saved, but God doesn't always get what He wants! Man can ultimately say to god, "Not thy will but MINE be done"! One day Leighton, you and I will stand before God and BOAST that we saved ourselves and God will applaud us and give us our due praise!
Excellent, Dr. Flowers.
Many have a problem with God controlling their tought process before they choose Christ. But don't think twice about praying that God would control their every thought, after they choose Christ.
People pray all kinds of nonsense.... like God make me love you. We are to take every thought captive out of our love of Jesus, and put to death the deeds of the flesh by the agency of the Holy Spirit which lives in the believer. (Rom 8) We have to take responsibility for ourselves and cooperate with the Spirit's transforming work in us.
@@Pneuma40 yes, exactly what I am alluding to. 1 Cor. 2:16
@@RenardGarzaro And hearing this, Jesus *said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” The Greek word translated 'repentance" in the Bible means to change your mind. When I pray for people I ask for the Father to have mercy and forgive their sins and to open their eyes that they can see the truth. In short to give them a chance....not override anyone's will.
What do you make of Jesus meeting Paul (then called Saul) on the road to Damascus.
knocked off his horse and blinded....forced to believe or just given an extraordinary opportunity to change his mind?
@@RenardGarzaro Romans 12:2 God does the renewing. We have very little to do with our physical and spiritual birth. Other than experiencing them, and looking back to see what God has done.
@@RenardGarzaro Please read my previous posts carefully then clarify what you mean. And BTW context is everything Ezekiel 36: 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “It is not for your sake, house of Israel, that I am about to act" So God is speaking to the house of Israel vs 28 "And you will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; " I would guess that's not you.
7:50 - Lennox "Did God make any PROVISION"
Leighton: "AHA!!!" **Leonardo DiCaprio pointing meme** ""He said our word!!!"
Doesn't be bible teach that 18:22 our free will has been impaired and severly compromised by the power of sin and the sinful nature within 18:22 each human being. We need God's intervening and saving grace to enable and empower us to to embrace repentance, faith in Jesus and a new heart and nature. Jesus said, You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed to go and bear fruit. God's choice and our choice after the working of his grace within us? What do you think. Mystery? Like Prof Lennox said, "how God is able to do certain things is hard or impossible for us to comprehend. But we must agree that we are saved entirely by the grace of God through the gift of Jesus His Son.
Thank you Leighton, ever faithful.
It's shocking to see intelligent people watch this and similar videos and still a) not believe in God or b) think that He made us without the ability to choose. Ironically the one view disproves the other.
The real sadness is to see so many people, listen to these delusions and think these are truths of life.
I mean do you even hear what Flowers says in this video? He says that we can have the strongest desire for one thing but then choose something else. Do you understand what kind of nonsense is this?
Let's give an example. If you wake up in the morning and you really want to remain in your bed and continue to sleep, it's your "strongest desire" but then you force yourself up and go to work. Does this mean that Flowers is right and that we can choose things that we desire less? Of course not! Because do you know what would happen to you if you really wanted to remain in your bed sleeping more than wake up? You would REMAIN IN YOUR BED AND WOULD SLEEP!
So, no matter how strongly you would desire to remain in your bed if you got up and went to work, it means you desired to get up and go to work more than remain in your bed.
We always choose what we desire most, always, without exceptions. So, Flowers is living in a complete fantasy world, in La La land of delusions and then you guys listen to him and enjoy living in the same La La land and this is really sad.
He is not serving God by spreading these delusions and deceptions, that is for sure.
@nikokapanen82
says:
"We always choose what we desire most." That's not choice, that's control. I'm very sad if that's true for you; it's certainly not true for me and everyone i have asked.
Praying for you Niko 🙏💗
@@chrisneeds6125
You are not thinking very wisely enough. I believe you are mistaking desires with the greatest desires. You think that if you desire something in general that does not mean that you are forced to do it. This is true, simply having some desire does not make you actually do it. Yet the strongest desire is always what we actually do. So if you desire to keep scrolling, let's say YT shorts, but this desire is not the strongest one, then you can decide to stop scrolling. But if you desire something the most, like to follow Jesus, then it is impossible for you to simply choose to follow Muhammad instead, you would remain a Christ follower as long as you desire it most.
@nikokapanen82
Hi Niko
Where is your proof for this, preferably from Scripture, of this extraordinary claim?
@@chrisneeds6125
What exactly are you after? That we always choose those things that we desire the most? This is a simple logical conclusion is you ponder and contemplate enough. It is logically impossible to desire something more but choose something else instead.
Try to think of any choice you made, you made it because you wanted it more than anything else. This is not extraordinary, this is a simple fact of life.
And no, this is not found in the Scriptures because this is about logical reasoning, the Bible does not teach us it because God expects us to understand these things like we understand math for example.
Let's have an example; remember Peter swearing that he would never deny Christ even if he would have to die. Why was he saying it? Because he was sure that he is sovereign and he decides how he behaves. Yet just some hours later, he ended up in a situation where he realized that if he confessed to knowing Christ, he would end up being nailed on the cross and that led him to feel so strong fear that he failed in keeping the promise and denied knowing Jesus three times.
Yet if we think deeply enough what exactly was the reason for his denying Jesus? It was his strongest desire to live, yes, he wanted to live more than anything else at that moment, so he acted according to his strongest desire.
His position isn't borne out by scripture. The Calvinist position declares that, *apart from God's saving grace*, we are incapable of responding positively to the gospel.
In other words, even our response to the gospel (faith) is initiated by God's grace, rather than self-effort (works).
If saying 'yes' to the gospel is an exercise of free will (without divine empowerment to do so), then to exercise free will (by saying 'yes' to the gospel) demonstrates more virtue than to say 'no'.
If that positive response to the gospel is indeed self-effort of making a choice without the intervention of God's grace (as 'free will' implies), then such a response would evidence *superior merit* (when compared to those who reject Christ). That merit would be an occasion of boasting.
Yet, St. Paul emphasises: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8 - 9).
So, John Lennox would need to explain why, in contrast with his position, scripture states: "for it is God who works in you both *to will* and do of His good pleasure."
Dr John is interesting to listen to, he is a great communicator
I have doubts about free will. I was 7 or 8 when I went to Sunday school, and I can’t explain the passion and the love for God I had. It was almost an obsession that I still have to this day, but I can't claim I chose God. I didn't have the capacity to decide at that age and I still can't shake it out of me. I believe God chooses us, not the other way around.
I love this. To God be ALL the Glory.
He chooses but you still have free will to walk away ..sorry
So, he could be unfaithful? That’s blasphemy. No one or thing can pluck them from his hand.
Repent
You have the capacity to respond to love at that age. Of course you do.
So you therefore have the capacity to respond to the *source of love*
I have been working with little children for years, planting seeds, and they all, without exception, are attracted to God.
It's ONLY sin (which is a choice too) that darkens people's hearts and minds and causes them to want to defy God and run from Him (and anyone who demonstrates Him or speaks of Him).
The biggest sinners (often the most prideful actually) I have met are the ones that hate God most - the complete opposite to how little children react.
Look at 2 Corinthians 2:15-16.
Christ (and those of us in whom he indwells: 2 Corinthians 13:5) s a SWEET aroma to the pure and innocent.
And the opposite to them that are perishing.
@leenieledejo6849 You're right, I can RESPOND to God's love as a child, it's like loving your mom and dad, but I wouldn't have the intellectual capacity or maturity to understand, compare eternal life with death, and choose life. For that matter, nobody taught us the Gospel like that at Sunday school; we just learned about Jesus and the sermons on the mount, and I just fell in love with the bible and Jesus. It wasn't because I understood the consequences of not following or following Jesus, but all I could think about in my free time was Jesus. That's why I believe God chooses us even before we choose him.
I agree that we have free will to say no as an adult, but still, I believe God prepares our hearts to receive Him. We are selfish and ignorant that without God's help, we could make the wrong choice.
I heard your arguments. I'm sticking to Calvinism. It holds biblical consistency
go and read history of the church. san agustin in 412 brought this from manqueism. calvinist just copy and paste what san agustin said 1200 years in the past. even the catholic church rejected that from san agustin. but calvinist just embrace the free will no free, from san agustin. go and red history my friend. you are agustinian-maniqueism, and tha apostolic father rejected by 300 years until san agustin brought that vie from the gnostic-maniqueism.
"why didnt you choose me? you didnt even give me a chance..." says the reasonable unbeliever to God after understanding Calvinist theology.
@@kevinrussell1144
Cain ignored the example God gave of a blood sacrifice to cover sins . No fruitbasket will suffice.
And read the next verse in Jer
"O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.". Correction comes from obeying the words of God. Not some secret gnostic grids of power that move your muscles and neurons this way and that.
I’m baffled that you think Cain gave an “honest, heart-felt, and loving gift,” what makes you think that’s what was in Cain’s heart? What did Scripture say anywhere that gave you that impression? You’re assuming Cain’s sacrifice was all of those things, but his actions demonstrate a totally different situation.
He offered a sacrifice to God, did he have some measure of faith? He must have, because even though his offering was rejected God came to discuss the issue WITH him. Cain ignored God, literally did not respond to God. He didn’t ask God for help, so he could give an acceptable offering. God did tell him that he had a heart issue, “sin crouches at the door.” Cain didn’t ask what that meant. God said, “you should rule over him.” Cain did not act like someone who wanted a relationship with God at all. Some part of him may have wanted God’s approval and acceptance, BUT he wanted God to accept him as he was AND not expect him to rule over the sin that was ready to pounce. Cain focused on the fact that his brother’s offering was accepted NOT on the fact that God came to HELP him. Then Cain went out and killed his brother, Abel. Murdered him. You think Cain’s issue began with God accepting Abel’s offering AND not accepting his? When God comes to Cain a second time, Cain now wants to respond AND he responds using a play on words that seems to mock his brother’s profession, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Abel was a keeper of sheep. No sorrow there (godly or worldly, neither one). He sounds proud and arrogant UNTIL God gives a judgement. Ironically he seems to ask for help by presenting his case as one who will be killed (like his brother) and it’s more than he can handle. God then does something surprising, He places a mark on Cain that when people see it they won’t kill him. God knew Cain’s heart. He saw what was in there AND He warned Cain about it AND told him to “rule over” the sin that beset him. When I read the story of Cain and Abel in Scripture, I see Cain as one who hated his brother. Who could murder their own brother in a fit of rage (or otherwise) AND then when God shows up uncover what he did, he tried to brush GOD off with a “clever” retort. That clever remark revealed quite a lot about Cain though. Cain, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Obviously he didn’t think so! He was his brother’s murderer. The religious Jews who cried out, Crucify Him! crucify Him! Crucify Him! They were like Cain. No remorse, no sorrow, no shame afterwards. Obviously NOT all Jews, because His disciples and followers weren’t among that number. The point is, from the very beginning you CANNOT love God and at the same time hate your brother. I don’t see Cain’s sacrifice as an honest, heartfelt, loving gift. I think that’s a stretch especially considering that the New Testament does not indicate that to be Cain’s attitude at all. He didn’t humble himself. He didn’t ask God for more information or additional help. He didn’t ask his brother for help or advice regarding sacrificial offerings either. According to Jesus Christ, Abel was a prophet. I’m just wondering if you have any Scripture to support your opinion of Cain’s offering and attitude?
You need to read your bible more.
After watching this, I listened to a few of John Lennox's teachings. I never heard of him until now. Very interesting fellow, I have to say.
Augustinian/Calvinist here. Before I say anything I would like to know why, in every presentation about free-will I have seen or heard, never is scripture invoked. John Lennox is brilliant, but he is no theologian; I think he would agree.
Did Adam have free will when he was created? Or did God give Adam permission to choose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
When Adam disobeyed God and immediately die spiritually, did he retain that free will? Certainly. He was free to choose to do good or evil according to his conscience as Paul says in Romans. But was he free to go back through that door to God on his own? No. God had to open that door for him and did so through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. I think we agree on that last sentence. If we are dead spiritually then it's not possible for us to seek God without Him awakening us. Scripture says that no one seeks God (Romans 3:11). John 3:11b says "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Can we cause ourselves to be born again? And if we are born again, we are born into His kingdom. And if we are born into His kingdom, we are back home with Him. Who is going to choose to be dead again?
It's not like an interview where your prospective employer asks, after going over all the benefits and pay, if you want the job or not. God has rescued you from perishing.
If you don't like the idea that God chooses you against your will because you think that is horrid, do other things that God did in the Scriptures bother you? "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated." (Romans 9:13; Mal 1:2-3). Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." God tells Isaiah Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” No free will there.
Did Abram have a choice, or did God just tell him to go to Canaan? Did God ask Joseph if he wanted to be sold into slavery? Did God give Jonah a choice to go to Ninevah? Did Jesus ask any of the Apostles to follow him or did He just tell them to? Did God give Paul a choice to convert or did Jesus make him? Are there any Scriptures that indicate that anyone had any choice to do anything?
Ponder on these scriptures
John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 6:65 “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
John 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
John 17:9 "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."
Acts 13:48
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Ephesians 1:11 -12 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
thank you very much for this contribution it really helped me
BOOM!
Yes, God even allows His people to bring a FREE WILL offering to Him showing us that we can express love beyond what the law requires
Wow, I am strongly opposed to Lennox false teaching on the creation of the world, but His thought on why God created us with freewill is simple but profound explanation. I will be using this from now on.
Excellent! Thank you.
Far from refuting the form of Calvinism, someone like RC Sproul or Dr. James white or Greg Koukl proposes.. As someone who tries to understand the Calvinistic theology and not yet fully convinced by it, i wud say.. Not the best attempt, bcoz honestly as i understood it, there is a more sophisticated version of Calvinism which these "refutations" dosent even begin to address.
That's right!!
Yeah, I don't think this even conflicts with the more robust forms of the Calvinist argument. Great video, not great title.
Provide one
Belief in free will isn’t about “saving yourself.” It’s about owning your own guilt.
No free will = no guilt.
So slaves to sin (Romans 6) have no guilt and therefore have no need of a Savior?
@@randybrandt6459
Up until the day that they realize that they do, by the hearing of the word of God.
Bingo! If God created man without the ability to freely (Biblical Term throughout Scripture) choose of their own free will and accord, then where is true repentance?
These matters shouldn't even be an issue within the body of Christ. The very essence of one denying self and relying solely on the finished work of the only begotten Son of God at Calvary's cross without any idea that salvation can be accomplished by the sinner is the requirement laid out for us in the gospel of the grace of God.
I honestly feel as if His willing sacrifice is being attacked.
@@larrybedouin2921 So then we better not send missionaries to unreached groups, since they are not guilty for any of their sins as long as they don't hear the word. All we are doing is condemning some of them who would have been okay. I don't think that comports with Scripture.
@@flman9684 Making a choice and having a will does not equal libertarian free will. A one-year-old placed in a crib has many choices but does not have a libertarian free will. The sovereign parent determines the boundaries. Calvinists believed that Christ's sacrifice is 100% effective and thus he saves his people from their sins by raising dead sinners to spiritual life without losing a single one of his sheep--how is that an attack?
Free will and determinism exist side by side in a constant state of tension. It's not a question of 'either-or.' Free will and determinism are both true. This is what God has designed. He's really amazing like that. Get over it.
John 3 makes this quite clear. Jesus begins by telling Nicodemus about being born - an event that was entirely out of your control and that you don't even remember. Then Jesus suddenly switches tracks and talks about "whosoever will." Is salvation a thing totally under God's control or do we have some responsibility? Answer - yes.
LOVE Dr Lennox!!! What a beautiful man. I’ve started to also grow to love Dr. Flowers as well! Thank you Lord for creating these intelligent beautiful souls❤
Again... AGAIN... 12:25 .. proves that Calvinism has more in common with Atheism than with Christianity...
Very similar to Islam. "Inshalla"
YES! I am beginning to see this idea. JL is brilliant and lovingly reveals that truth.
I don't follow you. How does God's electing work of salvation and sovereignty approach atheism? I think this is a misconstrual of Calvinism and uncharitable as well.
I agree.
One of the problems with calvinists is that they can’t get past the idea the free human will doesn’t compromise God’s sovereign authority.
That’s due to a wrong definition of sovereignty as divine determinism.
Please do explain
@@torokun in scripture sovereignty just means God is king of creation. We don’t have to believe it means God is micromanaging atoms.
@@leepretorius4869 sovereignty is
- *God answers to nobody*
- *He will do what HE WILL* (with no permission of anyone)
- *God will EXECUTE JUDGMENT according to HIS RIGHTEOUS JUSTICE*
- Numbers 23: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man that he should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do it? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?
- *God is not a respecter of persons*
- and if He is *KING* , He set the *Ordinances of Heaven* and set the dominion thereof over the earth.
@@RenardGarzaro does union with Christ precede the gospel?
Which of you have heard of St. Augustine? He was an early Church father who wrote the doctrine of free will and the Church embraced for many hundreds of years. Who has heard of Pelagius? The Pelagianism was condemned by the church because it clearly contradicted scripture. Pelagius was persuaded men had the ability to be sinless. If man has the ability not to sin, why does he sin? St. Augustine explained it this way in latin: Posse Peccare (possible to sin) and Posse non Peccare (possible not to sin) and non Posse non Peccare ( not possible not to sin), is the doctrine of the fall. Who embraces the fall of Adam that cursed humanity who are descendants of Adam, which is all of us? What would there be now if Adam and Eve never sinned? Would there be a fall? Will man sin in there glorified state in heaven? If they will not sin when glorified, then why not if free will means we have the ability to sin and at the same time have to ability not to sin? Did Christ not say he who sins is a slave to sin but he who the son sets free is free indeed? Free from what? Set free from the bondage to sin.
There was another controversy called Cassianism, which was considered semi Pelagianism. Semi Pelgianism is a form of Arminianism. John Cassian had the same argument we are seeing here and was condemned as a heretic by the early church. He was soundly defeated by St. Augustine's argument that covered predestination and sovereignty of God. St Augustine is known as Doctor Gratiae (doctor of grace) which is to say grace alone brings us to Christ. Both the first century and subsequent doctrine embraced the absolute sovereignty of God. St. Augustine and the early church said grace alone persuades to come to Christ. If Paul said, and whoever wrote the book of Hebrews, "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Does God draws someone to Himself does that person change his desire to embrace Christ? If said, "NO ONE CAN", (which is to say ability to come to Christ) come to me unless the Father draws him, then it God who gives grace to the one He will give to Christ.
Do you pray for people to come to Christ? If you pray for that, and don't believe God changes their desire, why do you pray for another if that person has an absolute free will to reject the grace of God?
Calvinism is nothing more than Augustinianism. Calvin did not invent the doctrine of Grace Alone. It was taught clearly by the early church and through scripture. Nor did Calvin write the book for predestination. Paul embraced predestination and Augustine embraced predestination as clearly written in the book of Romans. We all have to explain what predestines us, as written in the book of Ephesians 1:3-14.
Arminsim is irrational logically. It would have us believe, as Pelagius and Cassian, our wills come out of nothing.There must be a reason for our inclinations for us to choose this or that. If the holy spirit does the work of sanctification, does the holy spirit have influence to persuade the will to choose things of God? The will is absolutely that which we most desire at the time of choosing or we could not choose. If we choose without having an antecedent cause, then the law of causality has been violated and science along with it. If a person chooses Christ then something must change the desire of that person, or their desire will remain as it was. There cannot be an effect if there was not an antecedent cause. That's what we call the grace of God.
The call of the reformation was Augustinism, which was clearly embraced by Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and later Jonathan Edwards and many more. The majority of the church embraced Augustinianism and semi Pelagianism was not the majority as it is today. Johnathan Edwards has been said to be the greatest mind the America's ever produced. The reformation was about faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone, glory of God alone, and Christ alone. There's little left for a will that has no cause to change its desire.
Well, one thing we do know from Scripture is that God desires ALL people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth - 1 Timothy 2:4. The Greek is very clear and unequivocal and only a corrupt mind would read the text differently. So on that Scriptural basis, if we are to interpret, eg Romans 9 (Jacob and Esau) as relating to decrees of salvation or damnation (rather than concerning Israel), then we have to accept a serious contradiction in the Word of God. Isaiah 5: 1-7 also destroys any notion that God's grace is irresistible: verse 4: "Why then when I EXPECTED it to bring forth good grapes, did it bring forth wild grapes" - and then God invites the reader to appreciate the rightness of his justice in punishing the vineyard (His rebellious people). God said he set up the vineyard (ie He 'predestined' the vineyard) to bring forth good grapes, but the vineyard had been granted the power and will to turn those predestined good grapes into wild grapes. This passage of Scripture is utterly irrefutable. Augustine et al may have formulated their popular doctrines, but as a Christian believer I turn only to the Word of God, which I believe to be the true Protestant and Reformation approach.
It is always interesting to me how people use the same terms but mean different things. I believe in faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone, glory of God alone and Christ alone...but I am not a calvinist.
@@algraham7177 First, you are reading too much 1 Timothy 2:4. If God desires all people to be saved then why is it all people are not be saved? The context is all people in the sense there no rank for those might be saved. It's all people regardless of rank. I would recommend reading Ephesians, Galations, Gospel of John, and of course Romans. It unmistakable God Chooses those for whom He has ordained to be save. What does scripture say about God's sovereignty? God gives to whomever He pleases. Grace is the ingredient to be saved and that grace is not of ourselves but a gift of God. "No man CAN come to me unless the Father draws." No man is a universal negative, which means NO MAN. Again Christ says to His disciples you did not choose me but I chose you. Again, God says I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I harden whom I will harden. And again, no one seeks God, no not even one. Not one seeks God, which means not one and not some will seek God. When the reformers said it is my grace alone, it doesn't means we add a little something to God's grace.
Here's a rational look using the law of causality. If we choose God, what is the antecedent for the desire to choose God? Every effect must have a cause. What is the cause for choosing God when before we were not choosing God? The antecedent is the grace of God. For we know choosing has a reason for choosing or nothing can be chosen. Our desire changes toward God when God alone changes our desire to choose God. Moreover, why do people pray to God, as in 1 Timothy, which commands us to pray for all people? If prayer is the effectual ingredient in petition to God then it follows God's sovereignty is the manifest power that changes the desire for whom God wills to change their desire, otherwise prayer is useless if God has no power to change the will, or desire, of the one choosing God.
1 Timothy 2:4 God desires ALL to be saved. You ask, then why isn't everyone saved? The answer is obvious. God permits people to freely choose to reject him and his desire for them. It's a terrible choice, but God permits people to make that terrible choice. But God doesn't give up, and keeps drawing people to himself. What kind of man would drag a woman into his house to be his wife whether she liked it or not??? True love must be a free choice. God truly loves us and desires that we all have his free salvation. But he doesn't force his desire on anyone.
So you're saying GOD sends people to hell because he didn't choose them. And if all things that happen are because GOD made every man's choice because man doesn't have free will the you would be saying GOD is evil
Answers in humility and wisdom which is a great blessing .
10:30 mixing metaphors, you call all animals (e.g. lions) meat machines, essentially automatons/robots, amoral agents without true free will, no capacity for then love, but later claim a human child chooses a real dog rather than a stuffed animal because the puppy can disobey or obey, to love or not, so...are animals robots or not? If robots, then why is the puppy better than the plushy?
Love is volitional. It is within the Godhead, and they are not robots.
According to Scripture, to love is a Divine command, to begin with. How could you miss this, just read the Decalog (10 Commandments), as interpreted by Jesus Christ!🙄
That's not true. God loves because He Is Love.
Love this so much!!!!
Ephesians 1:3 KJV "Blessed be the GOD and FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in CHRIST: 4 according as HE hath chosen us in HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before HIM in love: 5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by JESUS CHRIST to HIMSELF, according to the good pleasure of HIS will, 6 to the praise of the glory of HIS grace, wherein HE hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 in WHOM we have redemption through HIS blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS grace;"
Case closed!
The CHURCH was chosen to be IN HIM before the foundation of the world. We were chosen to be conformed to His Image. Actually the verse says WE WERE PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE. FIRST BY BEING CONFORMED TO HIS DEATH.
Unfortunately Calvin totally missed that truth.
@@Larry-s1n You have made the RCC your god and you must obey your god's sacramental works to be forgiven of sin and you continue to be in servitude and bondage to you sins then burn in purgatory for your sins all the while denying what CHRIST said in
John 3:15 KJV That whosoever believes in HIM (CHRIST) should not perish, but have ETERNAL LIFE.
16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
17 For GOD sent not HIS SON into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through HIM might be saved.
18 He that believes on HIM is NOT CONDEMNED: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the NAME of the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."
Note: If you do not know where you will immediately go if you died right now then YOU DENY that all your sins are forgiven by GOD's grace through faith in CHRIST Who gave HIS life in your place for the forgiveness of all your sins on the cross because the penalty for sin is death and YOU DENY that you have ETERNAL and EVERLASTING LIFE and YOU DENY that you are NOT CONDEMNED as CHRIST said above, therefore YOU DENY CHRIST.
Any faith that says you, as a true believer in CHRIST, cannot know if you will immediately go to Heaven upon death is a false faith that depends on works whereas a true believer is saved by grace through faith and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).
Lennox makes a good philosophical argument. (He does something similar with creation) Where is the supporting scripture? People throw around the term free-will a lot but few know what it means. Arminians take it to mean that they can choose God. In a sentence, free-will means that you will happily choose according to your nature. If it is the old man, you chose according to the old man. IF it is the new man of the spirit, you choose according to the new nature. Read Luther's Bondage of the will. I can't give the subject the attention it deserves in a comments section. btw I like Lennox. I just think he is wrong on this one.
“there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one”. The only free will you have is within a prison of your fallen nature
I honestly do not understand how John Lennox hasn't been interviewed on this channel yet! He's literally written the seminal thesis on sound provisionistic exegesis and theology.
The Bible says that we are dead in our sins now the last time I looked the person that was dead could not do anything and the Bible says that the natural man can not understand the things of God and it also says that there is none that seeks after God so according to my understanding of the word of God unless God does a work in me I will not nor can I choose Him I'm humbled that God would choose me and I'm thankful because I most likely would not have chosen Him because man loves his sin and when God made me alive He drew me to Him self and then I was able to see my need for Him. 😊😊
Well said.
🔸"The Bible says we are dead in our sins..."
True.
🔸"...the last time I looked the person that was dead could not do anything..."
Well, if you're going to take "dead in sins" to that super literal conclusion, dead people also can't sin. When was the last time you saw a dead guy tell a lie?
🔸"...the Bible says the natural man cannot understand the things of God..."
You're talking about the Calvinistic "proof-text" 1 Corinthians 2:14.
Paul isn't talking about lost people not being able to respond to the Gospel. Paul is talking to saved people who are carnal and not mature enough to hear the wisdom being expressed as a mystery.
Seriously, go back and read 1 Corinthians 2:14, *keep reading* into the next chapter (remember, the original text was not split up into chapters and verses, it's one continuous conversation), and apply that Calvinistic interpretation of 1 Corinthians 2:14 and apply it to 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. How does it sound?
🔸"...it also says there is none that seeks after God..."
You're talking about Romans 3:10-18. Ignoring the fact there are plenty of places in Scripture that talk about men seeking God (like Psalm 34:10), this comment is already long, so what I'll just say about those verses for now is: context, context, context. Also, at the end of the day, even if "no one" seeks after God, you know the solution to that? Take God to man! (Romans 10:14-17)
🔸"...unless God does a work in me I will not nor can I choose Him..."
"Unless God does a work in me...", well what kind of *work* do you think God has to do, exactly?
Psalm 40:16 KJV - Let all *those that seek thee* rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.
Some 60-80+ verses in the Bible are about man seeking God. Obviously, "no man seeks after God" does not mean that no one seeks God under any circumstance. Without the interventiom of God the Holy Spirit, we do not. But Jesus said that if He was lifted up from the earth, He would draw all men to Himself. Jesus went to the cross; He draws all people to Himself.
Deuteronomy 4:29 KJV - But *if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.*
Psalm 9:10 KJV - And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: *for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.*
Psalm 22:26 KJV - The meek shall eat and be satisfied: *they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.*
Psalm 24:6 KJV - *This is the generation of them that seek him,* that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
Psalm 27:8 KJV - *When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.*
Psalm 34:10 KJV - The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: *but they that seek the LORD* shall not want any good thing.
Psalm 40:16 KJV - *Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.*
Psalm 63:1 KJV - A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. *O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;*
Psalm 69:32 KJV - *The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.*
The more free will is clearly explain the more I am convince that Calvinism is a problem of humbleness.
This scripture humbles me. Knowing I am told that God from the beginning chose me for salvation. Thank you, God.
II Thessalonians 2:13-14 NKJV
[13] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because *God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,* [14] to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@jayrodriguez84 I don't think that verse says what you think it says! Notice what is says that salvation is "through"..... BELIEF in the truth! (and the Holy Spirit's sanctification).
God chooses you to salvation THROUGH your belief in the truth, the gospel truth. It doesn't say he chooses you to salvation apart from that or preceeding that. Important distinction!
All who believe the truth are then given ("chosen for") salvation.
That verse says precisely the OPPOSITE of what Calvinism teaches!
I hope that offers some useful clarification and something to think about my friend.
God bless!
@topfueljunkie100 He chose us from the BEGINNING. BEGINNING OF WHAT?
THROUGH in how He chose us. Two ways ;
1. Belief in the truth
2. Sanctification BY the Spirit
Belief in the truth does not = Belief in the gospel. Do you know how I know that?
Because it then says TO WHICH. TO is preposition indicating a directional movement. After being chosen we are then called. We are NOT chosen when we believe the gospel.
Our Belief in the gospel is a result of believing in the truth, which is determined by God from the beginning, the beginning being before we believe/justified.
If you omit the word TO WHICH which you are clearly doing, then we wouldn't know which comes first.
We are chosen, called, justified. And of course, that matches Romans 8:29-30.
*SPEAK THE TRUTH*
@@jayrodriguez84 I'm not omitting the "to which" in some nefarious way as you seem to be implying, I just didn't feel the need to talk about it because it simply reinforces my original point! Paul actually strengthens the point I was making that we are chosen for salvation *_through_* belief in the truth and we were called to that salvation *_"by our gospel"_* !
So yes, the gospel was preached, and those who believed in the truth of that gospel were then chosen for salvation. That's precisely what those verses say.
So I maintain that the truth is indeed the gospel as Paul goes on to directly say just that, that's the entire context of what he's talking about. I don't know how you can say it's not.
It's a very simple formula the way it's written :
God chose those of us who believe the truth and are sanctified by the spirit to salvation. We were called to that salvation through the preaching of the gospel. We are called and then we respond to that calling. If we respond to that calling by believing, God then grants us salvation as he has, from the beginning, chosen all who believe to receive salvation.
So we believed the truth of the gospel and God then chose us (those of us who believe) for salvation. That is literally the simple gospel. We mustn't overcomplicate it as Paul warned in Galatians 1!
Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, *_that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life._* "
@@topfueljunkie100 I explained it to you. You're changing the order.
Chosen ->> to ->> called ->> to ->> justified.
God over-rules without over-riding, but how He does so is His secret. (JI Packer)
I love John Lennox. I bought his books and I have been reading them gaining a great understanding. There is one book that especially stands out " Gunning for God". However, on this topic, I disagree with him. It is God who opens our spiritual eyes and causes us to hear or see His plan of Salvation. Red Isaiah 29:18 "
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness."Unless God does His work of saving, man is dead in the water.
Our capacity to love really is the greatest evidence against calvinism.
I don't see that with Judas as well as many others. Not much of a capacity to love in terms of salvation. On top of that, we are told he never believed from the beginning. If you look at the capacity to love and the history of humanity, it may lead you to delete this comment.
@jayrodriguez84 Judas had a choice.
We have a sin nature which means we are predisposed to sin choices but that doesn't mean we don't have choice. As to love. The very word contains choice. You can't have love without choice. It's a married bachelor, a one ended stick....a square circle.
@filmscorelife4225 Judas chose based on what he believed, which was already determined before he came into this world. Jesus was presented with a choice, yet there was no possibility for Him to sin.
@jayrodriguez84 There was possibility. He didn't have a sin nature but he had as much free will as Adam, or the angels.
@filmscorelife4225 There was no possibility. He was foreodrained before the foundation of the world. By saying that, I can see that you don't believe in truth.
Thank you very much for the lecture.
WOW !!!
First off, I hate labels. After many years being in the Arminianism camp, I now consider Calvinism to be the most biblical for many reasons. RC Sproul and John MacArthur give the best defense of the doctrine and can refute the points by Mr. Lennox better than I.
However, having said that, it is important that we not allow our differences to divide us as Christ unites us as one in Him.
MacArthur does not even understand the difference between Salvation and discipleship. Please....
@@slownews_GetTheBigPicture Ah... OK. Have a nice day.
The definition of free will is acting on your greatest inclination at the moment. If we were born at enmity with God, when would choosing God be our greatest inclination without change in our heart?
Can you please provide the source video links of John Lennox? I assumed they would be in the description.
LOVE JOHN LENNOX!!!!! & YOURSELF!!!
I'm not that much younger than John Lennox, yet I just love him as I would a GRANDFATHER! All my grandparents were gone by the time I was 16. And for the last several years of my longest-surviving Grandpa he had lost a lot of his faculties. I have several on-line teachers and preachers I truly admire and respect, but none hold an actual place in my heart like John. When I listen to him, I actually feel like I'm listening to my grandfather. He was a deeply devout man, studied the Bible profoundly, including the Latin Roman Vulgate, and shared so many views with John.
I love the idea of calling myself a "Provisionalist." It's just about perfect. When predetermination is looked at, I believe that God, being bigger than our space and time, can SEE the decisions we FREELY make before we make them, and has shaped our paths. Self-determination is the only way God would make his creation, his image bearers. It's a very fine balance, but with God, it's a truly perfect plan.
I have come to the conclusion that those who deny free will seem to do so as a smokescreen to evade individual accountability for sin/ actions.
Really? That’s a feeling not a fact. My experience is exactly the opposite. My experience is that non-Calvinists generally do not know scripture or even believe much of it.
@@commentatorgunk
Because people who disagree with Calvinism don't know or study scripture? 🙄 Seriously. I write a lot of scripture upon my heart and know all the major Calvinist out of context prooftexts also. Psalm 119:11-16. So please tell me how non Calvinists don't know scripture simply because we disagree with your interpretations thereof? SMH
@commentatorgunk
You claiming people don't believe scripture simply because we disagree with your interpretations of scripture is absolutely absurd. It doesn't take much to prove your ridiculous claim wrong either. I believe every single Word of God to be true so please tell me how I don't believe the Bible.
Here's some verses off the top of my head because I don't believe the Bible right? Psalm 12:6-7, 1 Peter 1:24-25, Matthew 4:4, John 17:17, Psalm 119:89 & 140, Isaiah 40:8, Proverbs 30:5-6, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Deuteronomy 4:2, and Revelation 22:18-19. Because I don't believe God's Word right? Your clown shoes are showing. 🤡
@@commentatorgunk Calvinists don' even understand the Gospel. They all preach works - nonstop while at the same time yelling "it is all grace through faith".
Calvinists are a confused bunch.
Where did Dr. Lennox do this speech? Where can I find the full vidoe?
Question: What if a person “thinks” they were a Christian for 30-40 years and then realizes that maybe they weren’t? Can they still turn to God? What about the verses, you can only come to God if he calls, He will have compassion and mercy on who He wills?
The real question would be "Why does that individual think that they were never sealed unto the day of redemption."
They were either self decieved all along (very possible), or they truly believed years ago and have struggled with their flesh and as a result, they think that no one who is "elect of God before the foundation of the world could possibly do what I have done."
We are still bound to this flesh on this side of the bodily resurrection. I personally bought into the teachings of some prominent Calvinistic Pastors and then fell into sin. For the first time in my saved life, I doubted my salvation based on their preaching and contemplated suicide. Praise be to God, I came to my senses, revisited the scriptures while ignoring what any man had to say, and quickly realized just how deceptive certain theologies are. Not just Calvinism, but countless others. Well meaning men can lead people astray without ill intent. It happens all of the time because we are in the flesh and our adversary is far more clever than most even realize.
"Can they still turn to God?
Absolutely they can. If they truly were never saved and have come to realize that they have lived a lie within themselves, then Christ will certainly not turn away anyone who is willing to place their belief and trust in Him and his righteousness.
If they were saved 30-40 years ago and have strayed after the lusts of their flesh and doubt their salvation, then when they yield to the Holy Spirit and a re convicted of their sins against a Holy Father, then again, the Father anxiously awaits them and does not deny them sonship. Think of the prodigal son in that scenario. God is so long-suffering, gracious, loving and wishing that none should perish. I hope this helps. God bless you and may our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Sometimes, satan will try to convince you that you aren’t saved even when you are. If you weren’t truly saved, God’s arms are always open to receive you.
@kgar5String And what say you to John 12:32 KJV:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me"
Does all not mean all?
Also, the Apostles in Acts 11:18 make it very clear that all of the Gentiles can repent and be saved:
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
It ended with a period and not a question mark; meaning it is definitive. Notice that they did not place any limitation whatsoever on it.
Furthermore, in 2 Peter 2:1 we must take the word of God as it stands and accept the fact that He purchased all men. The debt has been paid and it is the unwilling sinner who rejects the ransom payment.
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
All throughout scripture we read where God desires that none be lost, so why should we take John 6:44 and build an entire theological construct around it when so many other passages point to the fact that the father does indeed draw all men and it is the created that denies the Creator and not the other way around?
If man was not give a free will, there would have only been one tree in the Garden of Eden. The specific trees identified are The Tree of Life, and The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (the Tree of Death). The dichotomy is not Good and Evil, it is Life and Death. Plan A is that man would eat from the Tree of Life and receive eternal life (the life of God). But man chose Plan B. God provided for that choice with "the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world."
God's so lucky. Man...
@@RenardGarzaro That is what the Scripture says.
@@RenardGarzaro There were 2 trees identified. Adam was warned not not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil or he would die. But it was left up to Adam to decide to obey or not to obey. He had a free will and he had a choice. Nevertheless, God made provision for if Adam chose wrongly because the "Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world." All mankind was locked up in sin and death, but now we can make a choice to be transferred out of the authority of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of God's love by believing into Him.We have a free will and a choice. Also, Joshua said, "I set before you today, life and death. Choose life. As for me and my house, we choose life. I don't have a Bible handy right now or I'd give you the verses, but they're easy to look up, or I can give them later if you like.
Are we not called to live in unity? Do we not all follow and worship the same God who performed the same signs and wonders so many years ago? Do we not all worship the same Jesus who died for our sins on the cross, who rose again to prove that He was God, and continues to live and reign in the heavens? Do we not worship the same God and hold to the same central Christian beliefs (dogma)? Whether Calvinists are right or wrong and these many issues it does not take away their rightness in the central Christian beliefs that Jesus was God, the belief in the atonement and resurrection, the belief in the Holy Spirit and God the Father, the belief in the trinity, etc. It is these central beliefs that surround the life of Jesus that make up the core values and beliefs of Christianity, the ones that everyone holds to (dogma). Certainly, a brand new born-again Christian may not know everything true of the Christian faith, yet they are saved because of the belief in Christ Jesus of which Dogma surrounds. So, despite the disagreements with Calvinists, let us not refer to them as heretics or not spirit-filled. Instead, let us have unity with them. That is not to say we should not sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron, but to have productive arguments that edify both sides. Let us be able to argue over these issues but still remain focused on dogma, on Jesus who died for our sins and rose from the dead defeating death. Let us not refer to Calvinists as heretics for they are Christian’s and hold to dogma. Just as a new-born-again Christian is saved, who can be so wrong about everything, so too can Calvinists certainly be saved if indeed they are wrong in many non-dogma respects. Let us live in unity and edify each other, not call each other heretics, and focus on dogma which makes up the core of Christianity.
I understand many are not calling Calvinists heretics, but for those that are, let us live in unity despite our beliefs in free will, among many other non-dogma doctrines.
Except Mormons, different God.
Brilliant indeed.
God Bless
Brilliance is actually a hindrance to knowing God, hence why Paul didn't rely on it when preaching the gospel (1 Cor 1 & 2).
If I can read the Bible and decide what is Christianity to me, who can say I am wrong. This is the heart of the matter. Is the Bible open to interpretation, or it if fixed from the start?
I had the opportunity to meet Dr. Lennox in person and it was a great experience. I love him.
Original video link please
God provides every man woman and child sufficient grace to choose Him. We have the free will to decide to cooperate with that grace or not
@@RenardGarzaro God wills that all men be saved- and we know that salvation is by grace through faith. We also know that God can’t Will something that is impossible, so everyone has been given or has the opportunity to receive saving grace
Sorry your wrong. God does NOT provide every man woman and child with sufficient grace to choose him, the is what’s call common grace which is unbiblical and also a Roman Catholic Hersey.
@@Atomic568 I don’t know if you read my last post but I believe I’ve shown that it’s biblical. Why is your position anymore biblical than what I’ve laid out?
God is not a puppet master!! That's not love.
John, The truth is that the scripture says that man has a free will and that God has a predetermined plan. Finite human minds cannot reconcile these ideas, but ALL scripture (even Romans 8 and 9, Eph 1 and 2, etc.) is inspired - even if a human brain cannot understand it.
Pretty sure that’s why Is. 55 says: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
The truth in scripture is, that Jesus said, he will draw all men unto him:
John 12:32
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Thank you God. We need more and more servants exposing this very corrupt doctrine. Calvinism is a plague. End times. We need to return urgently to the true, simple and powerful gospel.
I will be taking a transcript if this, it is rock solid reasoning based on evidence partnering with faith to discuss our Christian faith and the importance, declaration and promise of the Word with non-believers or doubting believers. I will even use this to help explain it to my children, they are smarter than we think and I believe I can use the Word and words of fellow Christians to overcome youthful doubt and rebellion. Thank you, God for this video and thank you to the producer who I believe added incredible value to John Lennox's edited presentation!
"I believe I can use the Word and words of fellow Christians to overcome youthful doubt and rebellion."
And if you can't, what then? If your child grows up an atheist like me, how will you deal with it since they are completely in control and you explained it to them? It drove my dear mother crazy...literally...as she woke up night after night imagining her son burning in hell because of his atheism. How will you deal with it?
Not even God could prevent an angels rebellion.
@kgar5String Yes, to God goes all the glory always! It seems like you are saying nobody should even put a Bible before someone else, nobody should speak of it. This is simply not true. Jesus commanded to go make disciples. You are doing the work Jesus asked you to do by taking actions to help spread the gospel by your tongue, your sponsorship of other Christians, and how you live your life.
On justice: yes against my enemies i want justice....BUT when i think of all the things I've done in the sight of God i cry out for MERCY, not justice, therefore how could i demand justice for my enemies when for myself i ask for mercy?? Thankyou Jesus for what He did for ALL of us on the cross, and his authority promise through His resurrection.
Good point, I believe justice is referring to judgement that is only done by our Savior, not us. We want a merciful God for ourselves and others, but ultimately if that enemy has chosen to deny God than we want our Savior to judge, to provide justice, without the Savior's justice or judgement we are all truly lost, which makes no sense as he quoted CS Lewis regarding hunger etc. I hope that makes sense!
But you still have to force yourself to resist this tendency to judge, right? Because it is human nature. And yet it is that very tendency that is the cornerstone of one of the key arguments for God..ie our moral intuition that says there is a right and wrong in the world and allows us to identify when someone is doing wrong.
Such a simple way of looking at things. And I think that is the way the Gospel is meant to be.
Exactly!
I echo others here. Mr Lennox is a gift to us all. And yes, true love must be freely returned to be pure and ⚖️
The problem is we are spiritually dead and cannot understand our need for salvation apart from the sovereign intervention of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said apart from me you can do Nothing.
@@DEPTRON7 Yeah I understand that perspective my friend. In my view we are not so dead so as to be unable to respond to the Gospel, which is the power of God to be saved as the Word of God says. If we are so dead we can’t even respond, that response can’t be libertarian (true, genuine) free will. I genuinely don’t see how that is ‘stealing’ Gods glory or sovereignty at all. That doesn’t make us worthy or holy or less wretched at all. It’s still 100% Gods love and grace and mercy. I know we see it differently no problem I’d share the great love of Christ with those who don’t know Christ anytime.
I don't know why I got this clip in my recommendation but I decided to watch it and boy did I struggled to hear it until the end and that's because of the mockery of your caricaturisation of the reformed position. If you want to argue against a theological position at least get that position right and don't refer to it with your preconceived clichés you get off the internet.
Second, you shouldn't get your theology from C.S.Lewis as he wasn't either a theologist nor a scholar of the Scriptures.
Thirdly, I love Dr. Lennox and I'd love to talk to him and explain to him these concepts that he explained so twistedly about free will and morality.
He received some easy questions though and I really don't understand why people over complicate these things while the Bible is so clear.
Implying that God took a risk while stating that He is Sovereign over His creation is kinda confusing and contradictory!
Dr. Lennox's theology is kind of a mix between Pelagianism and Open Theism which is a dangerous place to be!
"Couldn't God make...?" Of course He *COULDN'T* !! What do you mean by "of course He Could"??
God being all powerful does not mean He can do EVERYTHING! Because there's a lot of things He Can't! He can't lie, He can't not be God, He can't create another God, He can't make a square circle, He can't not be God!
He couldn't create a world of robots (such a pity caricaturisation of the reformed position!) Because that way He Couldn't have displayed His Attributes! He can't show Mercy, Justice, Grace or even Love without a sinner, without the trespassing of the Law! If you go to Peter you see that God provided the Lamb BEFORE the foundation of the world. Why a Lamb? There's no Law given yet, no propitiation asked yet, not even a World formed yet and He Provided a Lamb for The Sacrifice??
The so-called freewill implies the existence of a PERFECTLY NEUTRAL Agent so that the actual "free choosing" can take place. There's no such thing! Adam and Eve did have a free will BUT they've lost it and not because God took that away so they couldn't choose anymore but because their nature was CORRUPTED by Sin (farewell neutrality!). You cannot choose God which is Holy from a corrupted sinful heart!! (Yeah, you can choose some made up god that gives you hope and money and salvation from the mess you're in, but that god doesn't exist and the preacher that told you that will be held accountable!)
Of course the Bible speaks about the choosing of God and Salvation! Not about "should I go to the bathroom or not? Am I predestined to drink this soda or not?" ! That's a mockery to the intelligence of the human that argues with you.
Galatians 4:9 NKJV
[9] But now after you have known God, *or rather are known by God,* how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
I Thessalonians 1:4 NKJV
[4] knowing, beloved brethren, *your election by God.*
The Salvation is determined by the Election BY GOD or us be known BY God not the other way around.
I know nobody will read this and the ones that does will read it with a preconceived mind already but that's ok, the ones that must hear will hear! He calls His Sheep! His sheep *will* hear! If you don't, is because you're not His Sheep!!
John 10:26-29 NKJV
[26] But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. [27] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [28] And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. [29] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
It's not because of you but because He called you (as God called Adam after the fall!! It was not Adam seeking, he was in fact hiding! It was God seeking the sinner! It was God providing clothes for the naked!),He gave you eternal life and NOTHING can snatch you out of His Hand! It's not you(because you're a created being) it's Him!
Anything that begins with "Me" and "I" is by definition excluding *"BUT GOD"*
Thank you so much for your work Leighton! I've been wrestling with some passages that Calvinists point to as supporting Calvinism, and your videos have been very helpful.
God has done everything necessary to clear the way so that anyone can come and receive the salvation that He has provided through His Son’s death, burial and resurrection.
I was a Calvinist for 10 years. I was a member of a RCA Church. One day it hit me that "Calvinistic theology" Is a manmade religion. I know to many it's logical, makes sense and all the pieces of the puzzle fit. But What many don't realize. It's logical and makes sense. Because it's manmade. It's very logical to man. So, yes I bailed on Calvinism and the RCA Church and then spent the next 10 years searching in a desert to find Christ and I eventually did and I'm much better off. Each person is on their own journey, I know that. But for me. I would never go back to a Reformed/Calvinistic theology.
So good.
I think the best demonstration for free will is when Jesus allowed for the children to come to him and even scolded his apostles when they banned the kids. The kids want to go to him freely, no one was forcing them, especially Jesus, to come to him they were even being obstructed but Jesus allowed them to come to him anyway. We can't enter the kingdom unless we become like those children.
So is our becoming like little children our choice or is it through an act of the Holy Spirit?
Volition[Freewill] is a divine Institution given to us by God. He has given us volition because of his Sovereignty which is Part of his Character.
Thank you, Leighton! I like John Lennox very much! He's amazing blessed men of God!
Against The Tide is documentary with John Lennox. So so good, highly recommend
BROTHER FLOWERS SHOULD BE ON A SPEAKING CIRCUIT.
He was until he was gift wrapped by James White in their famous Romans 9 debate. Looked like the Dallas Cowboys in this year's playoff against the Packers.
@@Gablesman888why do you have to open old wounds😞
@@Gablesman888I'm a cowboys fan lol
@@philipbolin6776 There is a prophet on the streets of Dallas who is prophesying that the last event before the Second Coming is the Cowboys winning a final Super Bowl.
@@Gablesman888 lol at this rate I wouldn't doubt it
Lennox is a gift and a treasure to Christian apologetics and discourse at large
John Lennox is a modern day scientist/philosopher/Chrisitan apologist. He is a thinking person, one whom I have great respect for his ability to simplify and express deep thoughts. I have great appreciation for his courage to publically share his thoughts that mankind has very limited knowledge about the world, and that none of us really know the truth about what we "think" we know about life, despite our assurances that we do. Bottom line is this, do we choose to live by faith or knowledge? Ego [pride] exists only by the knowledge of good and evil, but life exists only in God. Our Faith in God is manifested in our lives by our consciousness listening for, and then acting upon, God's voice [His word] within us directing our path, while the ego sideof us is running as fast as it can to obtain as much knowledge as possible before it dies, trying to forestall its enevitable demise.